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View Full Version : Tom Haberstroh believes the Cavs should trade Love



IKnowHoops
01-19-2015, 02:59 AM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12173449/phoenix-suns-best-trade-fits-kevin-love-nba


You're David Griffin, the general manager of the Cleveland Cavaliers. In May, you were promoted to your first full-time general manager position in your nearly 20-year career in NBA circles. By all accounts, you have more than earned the position. The spotlight is overdue.

This is your big moment, as this past summer, LeBron James, maybe the best athlete Ohio has ever seen, fell into your lap and decided to return to Cleveland to try to bring home a championship to a city that desperately wants it.

Shortly after James came back, you swung a deal for Kevin Love, the starter for an All-Star team in a loaded Western Conference. Of the top three players in player efficiency rating in 2013-14, two are now employed by your team, and you managed to get Love without giving up Kyrie Irving. Three All-Star starters, starting for your team.

Seeing your blockbuster moves, Las Vegas named your team the preseason title favorite, and outside expectations ran high. A 10-story banner featuring James, the city's prodigal son, was raised in downtown Cleveland. A Nike spot that ran on the season opener and went viral online featured James huddling with the team and the city chanting, "Together. One city. One goal."

David Griffin
AP Photo/Tony Dejak
Cavaliers GM David Griffin has a choice to make on Kevin Love's future in Cleveland.
But your team is now struggling. Your starting center, Anderson Varejao, is out for the season with a torn Achilles, and James needed two weeks off in the middle of the season to get his body right. After an embarrassing 1-8 stretch, it's the first time since James' rookie season that his team has fallen below .500 after December.

Headlines are swirling with Cavs drama. James, harmlessly or not, shoved your head coach, David Blatt, the guy who you vehemently supported in a news conference just nine days earlier. That same night, Blatt benched Love for the entire fourth quarter as the team fell to its sixth straight loss. The benching came on the heels of the coach publicly saying Love wasn't a max player even though he makes a max salary.

On one hand, the organization has preached patience, patience, patience; this could turn around. On the other, James and Love can both opt out of their contracts this summer and leave you empty-handed.

But patience is in short supply. Your patience evidently ran out on Dion Waiters, so you flipped him to the Oklahoma City Thunder. You traded two future first-round picks for Timofey Mozgov. Those aren't moves made from patience. Those are win-now moves.

So what do you do, fire the coach? You just held a news conference saying you wouldn't, so it seems hard to do that now. You can't trade James; Irving isn't the problem.

It's time to pick up the phone and see what you can get for Love.


To read Tom Haberstroh's full story on why the Cavaliers should trade Kevin Love and four potential deals that make sense, sign up for Insider today.
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goingfor28
01-19-2015, 03:02 AM
I agree. Never should have done the Wiggins Love trade in the first place

HouRealCoach
01-19-2015, 03:04 AM
That would be dumb, get a better coach

Goose17
01-19-2015, 03:50 AM
My mate Steve DeSanta thinks they should sign Allen Iverson.

Seriously who the **** is Tom Haberstroh? Am I supposed to know that name? Is he famous over there for some reason?

More-Than-Most
01-19-2015, 04:10 AM
Um or you just wait until you hit the playoffs and enter beast mode. Give them time.

tredigs
01-19-2015, 05:31 AM
Tom Haberstroh also thinks that Lebron's move to Cleveland was because he was power hungry and did not want to listen to the Riley+Arison's of the world any longer, and that all this conflict is sort of a result of that situation presenting itself.

tredigs
01-19-2015, 05:32 AM
Um or you just wait until you hit the playoffs and enter beast mode. Give them time.

When has that ever proven to work? We're almost in February. You're not going to see some massive shift in what this team is capable of doing going forward. And as is, they are not a top 10 team.

IKnowHoops
01-19-2015, 05:57 AM
When has that ever proven to work? We're almost in February. You're not going to see some massive shift in what this team is capable of doing going forward. And as is, they are not a top 10 team.

I got them coming out of the east.

Goose17
01-19-2015, 06:02 AM
Um or you just wait until you hit the playoffs and enter beast mode. Give them time.

I disagree with this. They're not just losing games for the sake of it and then planning to "turn it on" come playoff time. How many of the Cavs starters have played in a playoff game? One. Lebron.

What they should do is keep it as is for one more year and see how it goes. If by this time next year they are still losing, they trade someone.

Goose17
01-19-2015, 06:03 AM
I got them coming out of the east.

Seriously? Based on what?

tredigs
01-19-2015, 06:07 AM
I got them coming out of the east.

lol - and that surprises nobody Hoops. They're going to need a lot of key players from opposing teams to get injured for that hoop-dream to become a reality though.

Goose17
01-19-2015, 06:10 AM
When will people learn you can't just shove a bunch of talent together and expect them to dominate. It doesn't work like that. There has to be chemistry, the team needs to get to know each other and their tendencies they need to work well together as a unit. The coaching needs to be on point. The supporting unit from the bench need to be willing and ready to accept their roles. They need to be playing both sides of the court well.

Brooklyn with Garnett, Pierce, Williams, Joe.
Lakers with Kobe, Nash, Dwight.

Even Houston struggled somewhat to begin with when Dwight came to town. Same can be said for Clippers with Blake and CP3.

There's a reason teams like Atlanta and Toronto are doing so well and it's not because they have three future hall of famers. The same with Memphis, Golden State, even Chicago to an extent. He'll even Phoenix and Milwaukee have better records and Phoenix are in a significantly tougher conference. How many guys do they have that would be regarded as top 5 in their position?

Talent needs to be there. But great chemistry and team work will trump great individual talent and low chemistry nearly every time.

Once the Cavs develop the chemistry and start playing better as a unit. Then things will change. They have the talent, they just need to put the rest together.

tredigs
01-19-2015, 06:13 AM
When will people learn you can't just shove a bunch of talent together and expect them to dominate. It doesn't work like that. There has to be chemistry, the team needs to get to know each other and their tendencies they need to work well together as a unit. The coaching needs to be on point. The supporting unit from the bench need to be willing and ready to accept their roles. They need to be playing both sides of the court well.

Brooklyn with Garnett, Pierce, Williams, Joe.
Lakers with Kobe, Nash, Dwight.

Even Houston struggled somewhat to begin with when Dwight came to town. Same can be said for Clippers with Blake and CP3.

There's a reason teams like Atlanta and Toronto are doing so well and it's not because they have three future hall of famers. The same with Memphis, Golden State, even Chicago to an extent. He'll even Phoenix and Milwaukee have better records and Phoenix are in a significantly tougher conference. How many guys do they have that would be regarded as top 5 in their position?

Talent needs to be there. But great chemistry and team work will trump great individual talent and low chemistry nearly every time.

Once the Cavs develop the chemistry and start playing better as a unit. Then things will change. They have the talent, they just need to put the rest together.

While I agree with a lot of this, I would argue they don't have the talent. I don't think this team - even in their best series - are good enough defensively to be true contenders. Certainly not if Lebron (or Blatt - whoever their coach is at this point) has them running the Mike Brown ISO offense that we've been seeing. That lack of an offense is going to get absolutely smashed on in the playoffs when good teams/coaches are scheming them.

Goose17
01-19-2015, 06:24 AM
While I agree with a lot of this, I would argue they don't have the talent. I don't think this team - even in their best series - are good enough defensively to be true contenders. Certainly not if Lebron (or Blatt - whoever their coach is at this point) has them running the Mike Brown ISO offense that we've been seeing. That lack of an offense is going to get absolutely smashed on in the playoffs when good teams/coaches are scheming them.

I think they have the talent. They just lack the chemistry and there's no real coaching going on.

I would argue they have more talent and are deeper than Miami ever were during that run.

Blatt loves the princeton offense and I'm curious as to why he's relying so much on guys going iso. I'm of the opinion that this isn't his decision and a lot of the players aren't buying in.

Kyrie and some of the others don't seem like "coachable" players to me.

Goose17
01-19-2015, 06:26 AM
To be clear I'm still just talking about winning out east in a fashion similar to Miami. Not winning it all.

I'm amazed at how many people had Love as the best PF in the game and now wouldn't even put him in the top 5. SO happy the Dubs didn't give away Klay, Barnes and Lee for him and Martin.

tredigs
01-19-2015, 06:32 AM
I think they have the talent. They just lack the chemistry and there's no real coaching going on.

I would argue they have more talent and are deeper than Miami ever were during that run.

Blatt loves the princeton offense and I'm curious as to why he's relying so much on guys going iso. I'm of the opinion that this isn't his decision and a lot of the players aren't buying in.

Kyrie and some of the others don't seem like "coachable" players to me.

Haha well, Blatt's not the coach, is why. They've made that pretty clear. They have the offensive talent to dominate on that end in the regular season against teams who are not heavily scheming them (although they've yet to do that), but Miami had Bosh buy in as an elite defender and spot up shooter (he got less touches than Love even currently gets), and Love simply does not have Bosh's length or IQ defensively to take on that role. Lebron is also nowhere near the defender he was 2+ years ago, and his clear lack of effort on that end certainly is not going to help change/advance any potential of that they'd need out of guys like Kyrie.

Long story short, it's a severely dysfunctional team - who even at their best don't have a prayer at winning the title. East? Okay, I hear you, it's a terrible conference. But barring injury they'd get beat up by the Bulls and Hawks with relative ease. Might have a good chance against the Raps, but the Wiz would likely down them too.

Goose17
01-19-2015, 06:40 AM
I'm not saying this year LOL. They don't have a chance this year. I doubt they'll make it out of the first round. They certainly won't get past the second.

I meant next year. After guys have gotten accustomed to playing together, after they sort out the coaching and the chemistry is better.

I think Varejao staying healthy would do a lot to negate Loves ineptitude defensively. And I'm of the opinion Lebron hasn't regressed defensively he's just not putting the effort into it.

There's no reason a team with the passing ability of guys like Love and Lebron (that's a hell of a passing front court) and the potential ability of guys like Irving and Delavedova etc can't move the ball like the Hawks do. It's a matter of ego and coaching, buying into the coaching.

It won't happen. But it could. If they really wanted it to.

TheNumber37
01-19-2015, 08:42 AM
Kevin love to Phoenix for plumlee and Bledsoe

Chrisclover
01-19-2015, 09:27 AM
If they are lucky, they get to the ECF. But dont you ever dream of the finals. At least not this year. Lebron, this is another lesson you need to learn.

IndyRealist
01-19-2015, 10:20 AM
Kevin love to Phoenix for plumlee and Bledsoe

They just traded for 2 SGs. I seriously doubt this happens.

Chrisclover
01-19-2015, 10:34 AM
Kevin love to Phoenix for plumlee and Bledsoe
You have gotta be kidding me. Though Bledsoe has proved that he is a promising talent after signing a huge contract, I am still not really into him. I always feels like a major injury is coming his way. Also, the Cavs already has Irving, whats the point of having Bledsoe? He is clearly undersized if he plays SG.
Plumlee is a decent blue-collar player and I am not so enamored by him, either.
In a word, k Love is worth much more than both.

Wade n Fade
01-19-2015, 10:48 AM
I mean it was foreseeable that two of the Cavs best players play as much D as I do when watching a game on TV. Weak bench, bad coaching, desperation moves aren't really that good. It's karma for LeBron for turning his back on Miami to go to ****Land. He gave up everything, but it wasn't greener pastures unless you count the irrigation systems contents used to water people's lawns during the spring and summer.

Goose17
01-19-2015, 12:08 PM
They should trade Irving, he's overrated. Sell him while people still actually think he's anything more than handles and athleticism.

Bruno
01-19-2015, 02:06 PM
I sort of agree with this. I could be wrong, but this is all starting to feel very Dwightish to me.

Jalen Rose thinks that the pairing is doomed because he think Love and LeBron play the same position at this point in their careers.

smith&wesson
01-19-2015, 03:08 PM
Love and AV for bosh and wade :shrug:

irving
wade-miller
LeBron-marion
bosh- thompson
mozgov

smith&wesson
01-19-2015, 03:09 PM
How about love for cousins straight up.

bucketss
01-19-2015, 03:11 PM
i wouldn't really be suprised if cavs came out the east.

bucketss
01-19-2015, 03:13 PM
Love and AV for bosh and wade :shrug:

irving
wade-miller
LeBron-marion
bosh- thompson
mozgov

i doubt heat trade wade, espcially for a rental because love is outta there at the end of the season.

Crackadalic
01-19-2015, 03:31 PM
Kyrie
Wiggins
Lebron
Thompson
Mozzy

Looks much better as a team then plugging in JR and Love who can't guard ****

Chronz
01-19-2015, 03:34 PM
Love+anyone else for Channing Frye, Oladipo, Vucevic ?

I mean what would you even trade him for? Seems like any package would be for less than what they gave up. Might as well keep him and fill the void later.

Shareeb_omac2
01-19-2015, 03:35 PM
They need to pair Lebron with a legit center for once in his career.

Kyrie Irving also doesn't fit with Lebron and Love and it's beyond me how this isn't completely obvious to anyone that has seen that team play.

shep33
01-19-2015, 03:42 PM
Love's value is at an all-time low. Not many teams would want to trade for a 1/2 season rental.

Maybe the Warriors for Lee and fillers.

No team is going to give up a lot for K Love right now.

Goose17
01-19-2015, 04:06 PM
Love's value is at an all-time low. Not many teams would want to trade for a 1/2 season rental.

Maybe the Warriors for Lee and fillers.

No team is going to give up a lot for K Love right now.

LOL, the Warriors kill their chemistry and risk the best record in the West for Kevin Love? Nah.

shep33
01-19-2015, 04:15 PM
LOL, the Warriors kill their chemistry and risk the best record in the West for Kevin Love? Nah.

Without a doubt, but my point is, who trades for Love for 1/2 a season? Realistically they aren't going to get much back for him

Chronz
01-19-2015, 04:17 PM
LOL, the Warriors kill their chemistry and risk the best record in the West for Kevin Love? Nah.

Would it really kill chemistry to trade a bench piece? Is he that revered and which of your players are that mentally weak?

D-Leethal
01-19-2015, 04:34 PM
Would it really kill chemistry to trade a bench piece? Is he that revered and which of your players are that mentally weak?

Switching gears and learning to implementing an all star into a lineup currently playing at pretty much peak level is always a risky idea. Warriors playing at the level they are playing at now is tough to top, and any sort of change to their current chemistry could easily result in less wins. Long term it might make them more dangerous (might, might not) but they might be dangerous enough as it is come playoff time. Lee and Love have similar playing styles but Love would require a higher usage role so there would be an adjustment period.

IKnowHoops
01-19-2015, 04:50 PM
Love+anyone else for Channing Frye, Oladipo, Vucevic ?

I mean what would you even trade him for? Seems like any package would be for less than what they gave up. Might as well keep him and fill the void later.

I actually like that trade.

Goose17
01-19-2015, 04:58 PM
Would it really kill chemistry to trade a bench piece? Is he that revered and which of your players are that mentally weak?

We would be inserting Love into the starting unit, that is a massive change. He would need to learn the entire offense and his ineptitude defensively would change everything.

On top of that chemistry is a fragile thing, somebody loses their best friend they resent the guy that replaced him etc etc. And it wouldn't be Love for Lee straight up, others would have to be included, so we would probably end up losing 2 or 3 guys.

Why do that when you're the best team in the toughest conference? Why take that risk for a 4/5 month rental? It's madness to even suggest such a thing.

I would actually rather have Lee on the bench than Love in the starting 5.

Only a fool would make that trade, sorry.

IKnowHoops
01-19-2015, 05:00 PM
lol - and that surprises nobody Hoops. They're going to need a lot of key players from opposing teams to get injured for that hoop-dream to become a reality though.

I guess we will just see what happens at the end. I just don't think you really understand what is going on with the Cleveland team/and Lebron. Your taking everything at face value. I think your wrong in your assessment but we will just have to wait until the playoffs come around to see whatI say is true. - Which is the Cavs are the best team in the east and they will come out of the east. Lebron is playing like a tutor. His main objective is getting his teammates more comfortable, not winning. Right now anyway, thats the process he believes needs to happen right now.

Chronz
01-19-2015, 05:02 PM
Switching gears and learning to implementing an all star into a lineup currently playing at pretty much peak level is always a risky idea. Warriors playing at the level they are playing at now is tough to top, and any sort of change to their current chemistry could easily result in less wins. Long term it might make them more dangerous (might, might not) but they might be dangerous enough as it is come playoff time. Lee and Love have similar playing styles but Love would require a higher usage role so there would be an adjustment period.

Isn't it the similar risk they were taking when implementing Lee back into their rotation in the first place, given the many players already thriving at his position? I see it as pretty much plugging in a superior talent into the same role Lee has. Same risk they were willing to make when coming into the season with their upgraded coaching staff.

And I feel like Love could defer better, hell, Lee is taking up more possessions while hes on court already and producing less individually THIS year. So I dont buy the higher usage argument, we're pretty much seeing the worst of what Love could do and hes still more productive than the guy they are struggling to integrate anyways. Its a CLEAR upgrade, the kind you make in your sleep IMO. Unless, you feel losing Lee would hurt team morale the same way it KILLED Rondo's game (and with it, any chance of competing) when they traded Perk. But thats why I asked, which player is most likely to cry over the loss?

In reality, Cleveland would never downgrade without filling a pressing bigman need

Chronz
01-19-2015, 05:04 PM
I guess we will just see what happens at the end. I just don't think you really understand what is going on with the Cleveland team/and Lebron. Your taking everything at face value. I think your wrong in your assessment but we will just have to wait until the playoffs come around to see whatI say is true. - Which is the Cavs are the best team in the east and they will come out of the east. Lebron is playing like a tutor. His main objective is getting his teammates more comfortable, not winning. Right now anyway, thats the process he believes needs to happen right now.

I also believe they are just about to hit their stride. They still have one of the most productive lineups in the NBA, and this is with them playing at their worst.

SPURSFAN1
01-19-2015, 05:23 PM
I don't like to brag but I said love was a lot of hype last year. I don't remember if I said kawhi>love but I would take Kawhi over this guy. 2 Finals and 3 WCFs in his 3 years in the league FMVP. Best perimeter defender in the league. I also called kawhi a top 10-12 guy in the league. Everything is coming to fruition. lol

Sanjay
01-19-2015, 05:50 PM
I guess we will just see what happens at the end. I just don't think you really understand what is going on with the Cleveland team/and Lebron. Your taking everything at face value. I think your wrong in your assessment but we will just have to wait until the playoffs come around to see whatI say is true. - Which is the Cavs are the best team in the east and they will come out of the east. Lebron is playing like a tutor. His main objective is getting his teammates more comfortable, not winning. Right now anyway, thats the process he believes needs to happen right now.

LeBron is lucky he isn't in the Western Conference, he wouldn't have this much time to get comfortable lol.

Sanjay
01-19-2015, 05:52 PM
I also believe they are just about to hit their stride. They still have one of the most productive lineups in the NBA, and this is with them playing at their worst.

One of the most productive lineups in the league? But they are only one game over .500?

TheNumber37
01-19-2015, 05:53 PM
Kevin love to Phoenix for plumlee and Bledsoe
You have gotta be kidding me. Though Bledsoe has proved that he is a promising talent after signing a huge contract, I am still not really into him. I always feels like a major injury is coming his way. Also, the Cavs already has Irving, whats the point of having Bledsoe? He is clearly undersized if he plays SG.
Plumlee is a decent blue-collar player and I am not so enamored by him, either.
In a word, k Love is worth much more than both.

Bledsoe defends. Kyrie doesn't... Bledsoe and Lebron... Jr is not a long term solution

IKnowHoops
01-19-2015, 05:56 PM
LeBron is lucky he isn't in the Western Conference, he wouldn't have this much time to get comfortable lol.

He's not the one getting comfortable.

IKnowHoops
01-19-2015, 05:58 PM
One of the most productive lineups in the league? But they are only one game over .500?


Why are you counting games Lebron didn't even dress for as part of a lineup that is .500?

Sanjay
01-19-2015, 06:07 PM
He's not the one getting comfortable.

I mean get his team comfortable.

SPURSFAN1
01-19-2015, 06:07 PM
I think being unhealthy means he can't be productive.

IKnowHoops
01-19-2015, 06:09 PM
I mean get his team comfortable.


I think if he was on the Spurs, Clippers, OKC, or Golden State, he'd have a much easier year.

SPURSFAN1
01-19-2015, 06:13 PM
I think if he was on the Spurs, Clippers, OKC, or Golden State, he'd have a much easier year.

Well the spurs are a championship team without lebron. The league would be ****ed though. We'd then be paying a **** ton of money though.

Sanjay
01-19-2015, 06:13 PM
Why are you counting games Lebron didn't even dress for as part of a lineup that is .500?

Fair enough, but I don't think they have been one of the most productive lineups even with LeBron.

Sanjay
01-19-2015, 06:23 PM
I think if he was on the Spurs, Clippers, OKC, or Golden State, he'd have a much easier year.

I wasn't referring to a playoff team in the West. I was meaning if the Cavs were in the Western Conference.

RiLoc
01-19-2015, 06:29 PM
Love's usage rate is drastically down from 28.8% last year to 22.3% on a more talented team, yet his true shooting percentage is down from 59.1% last year to 56.1% this year. That is indicative of Cavs are not maximizing his potential.

I have read that the biggest change in Love's usage is that he is rarely playing at the elbow. Last season, Love had around 12 touches per game at the elbow which is close to league leading and this year is around 3 elbow touches per game which is really low. I think that matches the eyeball test and I suspect that has a lot to do with Love's issues. It'd be nice to see Love actually moving around the court, getting him the ball inside 20 feet and running action around him; cuts, down screens and dribble hand offs. That's where he was great in the past. It's a shame LeBron didn't support Blatt more, because it'd be interesting to see Love in Blatt's offense rather than this stale offense the Cavs run now.

The only argument argument of substance against keeping Kevin Love is that in crunch time against a strong opponent if you move LeBron to 4, then Love has to come off the court, because Love is a terrible post defender. Whereas Chris Bosh didn't have that issue.

Either way, trading Love now would be a desperate move where the Cavs don't get full value in return. The irony is everyone is calling for a trade, but if the Cavs trade Love, then down the road people will call the Cavs stupid for trading Love, because the Cavs won't get full return and with a competent organization Love's production will return.

WITZ
01-19-2015, 09:35 PM
I mean it was foreseeable that two of the Cavs best players play as much D as I do when watching a game on TV. Weak bench, bad coaching, desperation moves aren't really that good. It's karma for LeBron for turning his back on Miami to go to ****Land. He gave up everything, but it wasn't greener pastures unless you count the irrigation systems contents used to water people's lawns during the spring and summer.

Lmao someone is still salty. Riley sure made it hard for lebron to leave when he added Granger & McRoberts after getting their *** beat in the finals.

KnicksorBust
01-19-2015, 10:21 PM
Trade Love? Lol.

Vee-Rex
01-19-2015, 11:45 PM
Trade Love? Lol.

Lol iknowrite?

Cavs just destroyed a fully healthy Bulls team w/o Shumpert + Varejao. Love didn't shoot very well but he still got key rebounds and his basketball IQ is sorely needed on this Cavs team.

If the Bulls destroyed the Cavs tonight you'd see 5 new threads up by now with people wondering if the Cavs should trade lbj, kyrie, and love for brook Lopez or something equally stupid.

LOL PSD

Jeffy25
01-19-2015, 11:46 PM
Trade Irving for a true point guard, not Love.

Though financially, that probably won't work for them.

Jeffy25
01-19-2015, 11:48 PM
Lol iknowrite?

Cavs just destroyed a fully healthy Bulls team w/o Shumpert + Varejao. Love didn't shoot very well but he still got key rebounds and his basketball IQ is sorely needed on this Cavs team.

If the Bulls destroyed the Cavs tonight you'd see 5 new threads up by now with people wondering if the Cavs should trade lbj, kyrie, and love for brook Lopez or something equally stupid.

LOL PSD

Bulls didn't have Noah, and were out rebounded terribly because of this.

Bartlee23
01-20-2015, 12:14 AM
Bulls didn't have Noah, and were out rebounded terribly because of this.

They also did not have Dunleavy which means they were missing two starters that not only effected rebounding but spacing of the floor as well as the lineup rotation.

Chronz
01-20-2015, 03:20 AM
We would be inserting Love into the starting unit, that is a massive change. He would need to learn the entire offense and his ineptitude defensively would change everything.
Why would you be inserting him into the starting lineup when the whole thing is simply meant to replace Lee's role.


On top of that chemistry is a fragile thing, somebody loses their best friend they resent the guy that replaced him etc etc. And it wouldn't be Love for Lee straight up, others would have to be included, so we would probably end up losing 2 or 3 guys.

I dont value chemistry the way you do but yes, it is dependent on the roster at hand. Thats why I asked which players do you feel would be most impacted by the trade?


Why do that when you're the best team in the toughest conference? Why take that risk for a 4/5 month rental? It's madness to even suggest such a thing.
Because GS is actually in the unique position to trade for him and not care if he plans to leave. I dont see how its madness but agree to disagree.


I would actually rather have Lee on the bench than Love in the starting 5.

Only a fool would make that trade, sorry.
My argument was under the assumption that Love would be a team player so long as he was given a chance to earn his keep.

I disagree with your foolish claim.

Chronz
01-20-2015, 03:21 AM
One of the most productive lineups in the league? But they are only one game over .500?

Yes. Come playoffs, when rotations shorten, thats a pretty good advantage.

Brock17
01-20-2015, 03:32 AM
They should definitely trade love. This dude is so average when expectations are high. There's no way you go from a great scorer to piss poor in a year and your not even hurt. Some people fold under pressure and love looks like one of them.

Goose17
01-20-2015, 03:33 AM
You don't value chemistry and you wonder why the clippers have been disappointing. I mean aside from the fact they all hate/resent each other. Oh wait, that's chemistry.

Chemistry > Talent.

Does Atlanta have four guys equal in talent to a prime Garnett, Rondo, Pierce and Ray? Nope. Do the Warriors have three guys equal in talent to Lebron, Irving, Love? Does Steph have a guy to go to like CP3 does, equal to Blake Griffin? Put all the supposed "all stars" you want on a team. Without chemistry they're struggling during the regular season and not doing much post season. Sorry. Get a bunch of good two way players with one great player leading them and a bucket load of chemistry. Oh look, you have the best record in the East or West. What a surprise.

And there's no way Love would take on a bench role. He has too much of an ego. He's not a team first guy like Lee is.

And actually I would take Lee over Love. I don't see how Love does what Lee does any better than Lee. Aside from shooting the three point shot, which is apparently all he does now that his rebound prowess has vanished.

I am glad the Warriors didn't trade for him. I never wanted him. He's an overrated player. Very overrated. I'll take Draymond over Love every day. Sorry. Stuffing the stat sheet on a losing team then becoming completely ineffective to the point where you get benched every fourth quarter doesn't spell out "all star" to me.

IKnowHoops
01-20-2015, 03:55 AM
You don't value chemistry and you wonder why the clippers have been disappointing. I mean aside from the fact they all hate/resent each other. Oh wait, that's chemistry.

Chemistry > Talent.

Does Atlanta have four guys equal in talent to a prime Garnett, Rondo, Pierce and Ray? Nope. Do the Warriors have three guys equal in talent to Lebron, Irving, Love? Does Steph have a guy to go to like CP3 does, equal to Blake Griffin? Put all the supposed "all stars" you want on a team. Without chemistry they're struggling during the regular season and not doing much post season. Sorry. Get a bunch of good two way players with one great player leading them and a bucket load of chemistry. Oh look, you have the best record in the East or West. What a surprise.

And there's no way Love would take on a bench role. He has too much of an ego. He's not a team first guy like Lee is.

And actually I would take Lee over Love. I don't see how Love does what Lee does any better than Lee. Aside from shooting the three point shot, which is apparently all he does now that his rebound prowess has vanished.

I am glad the Warriors didn't trade for him. I never wanted him. He's an overrated player. Very overrated. I'll take Draymond over Love every day. Sorry. Stuffing the stat sheet on a losing team then becoming completely ineffective to the point where you get benched every fourth quarter doesn't spell out "all star" to me.

He still gets more than 10 a game.

IKnowHoops
01-20-2015, 04:01 AM
You don't value chemistry and you wonder why the clippers have been disappointing. I mean aside from the fact they all hate/resent each other. Oh wait, that's chemistry.

Chemistry > Talent.

Does Atlanta have four guys equal in talent to a prime Garnett, Rondo, Pierce and Ray? Nope. Do the Warriors have three guys equal in talent to Lebron, Irving, Love? Does Steph have a guy to go to like CP3 does, equal to Blake Griffin? Put all the supposed "all stars" you want on a team. Without chemistry they're struggling during the regular season and not doing much post season. Sorry. Get a bunch of good two way players with one great player leading them and a bucket load of chemistry. Oh look, you have the best record in the East or West. What a surprise.

And there's no way Love would take on a bench role. He has too much of an ego. He's not a team first guy like Lee is.

And actually I would take Lee over Love. I don't see how Love does what Lee does any better than Lee. Aside from shooting the three point shot, which is apparently all he does now that his rebound prowess has vanished.

I am glad the Warriors didn't trade for him. I never wanted him. He's an overrated player. Very overrated. I'll take Draymond over Love every day. Sorry. Stuffing the stat sheet on a losing team then becoming completely ineffective to the point where you get benched every fourth quarter doesn't spell out "all star" to me.

Well your basically saying Draymond and Lee > Love. Most would say Curry > Kyrie. Many would say Klay > Kyrie too. The only difference is Lebron at this point, and by what you have said, that may just make it even. Golden State has a lot of talent, and a lot of depth. 1-12 they have more talent than the Cavs. 1-5 and its probably even, but then there is Bron. Yes Golden State has good chemistry, but really they have a bunch of ballers, and from top to bottom, they are probably the most talented team in the NBA.

Chronz
01-20-2015, 04:39 AM
You don't value chemistry and you wonder why the clippers have been disappointing. I mean aside from the fact they all hate/resent each other. Oh wait, that's chemistry.
Must you rely on strawman arguments? I dont wonder about why the Clips have been mildly disappointing so plz stop lying. The Clippers are actually an example of a team that couldn't make the right trades to upgrade its talent. No other contender has the glaring holes they have so I dont see your point.


Chemistry > Talent.
Heavens no.


Does Atlanta have four guys equal in talent to a prime Garnett, Rondo, Pierce and Ray? Nope. Do the Warriors have three guys equal in talent to Lebron, Irving, Love? Does Steph have a guy to go to like CP3 does, equal to Blake Griffin? Put all the supposed "all stars" you want on a team. Without chemistry they're struggling during the regular season and not doing much post season. Sorry. Get a bunch of good two way players with one great player leading them and a bucket load of chemistry. Oh look, you have the best record in the East or West. What a surprise.
I dont agree with your breakdowns so..... where do we go from here? Terms like "go to guys" and focusing on a mere handful of players is far too simplistic of a way to assess a teams talent pool. Maybe we just dont assess players in the same way so lets stop pretending you know the universal barometer. I would love to see something less subjective but so long as you feed nothing but conjecture, might be best to just agree to disagree on most of these points.



And there's no way Love would take on a bench role. He has too much of an ego. He's not a team first guy like Lee is.
What makes you think so?


And actually I would take Lee over Love. I don't see how Love does what Lee does any better than Lee. Aside from shooting the three point shot, which is apparently all he does now that his rebound prowess has vanished.
I feel like your fandom is getting the better of you. If Love's rebounding prowess has vanished, what has become of Lee's? I dont see why you would mention an aspect that your guy is inferior in.... IMO, Love is getting more acclimated, I think we'll see an improvement in his play from here on out.



I am glad the Warriors didn't trade for him. I never wanted him. He's an overrated player. Very overrated. I'll take Draymond over Love every day. Sorry. Stuffing the stat sheet on a losing team then becoming completely ineffective to the point where you get benched every fourth quarter doesn't spell out "all star" to me.

Thats because you blatantly exaggerate his struggles, ignore the context of his benching and team success. This isn't a conversation of Draymond vs Love anyways.

Chronz
01-20-2015, 04:40 AM
Well your basically saying Draymond and Lee > Love. Most would say Curry > Kyrie. Many would say Klay > Kyrie too. The only difference is Lebron at this point, and by what you have said, that may just make it even. Golden State has a lot of talent, and a lot of depth. 1-12 they have more talent than the Cavs. 1-5 and its probably even, but then there is Bron. Yes Golden State has good chemistry, but really they have a bunch of ballers, and from top to bottom, they are probably the most talented team in the NBA.

I dont see how any of the teams he mentioned are lacking for talent in a comparison vs the ones he deemed inferior.

Goose17
01-20-2015, 06:23 AM
I dont see how any of the teams he mentioned are lacking for talent in a comparison vs the ones he deemed inferior.

It's a lack of top tier talent. Not a lack of talent.

Warriors have two players who are undeniably in the top 5 for their position. Up until this season everyone on here bar like 4 people were saying Love is the best power forward in the game, at least second best. Same with Lebron. And plenty of people were sold on Irving (for some unknown stupid reason). Same with Clippers and whoever else. CP3 was the best point guard Blake was regarded as a top 2 PF.

Warriors have the best point guard (arguably) and then Klay. Who gets ranked as high as #1 by some and as low as #5 by others for the leagues best SG's.

Our second option offensively is Klay. Put him on the Clippers he would be a third option. On Portland he's a third option. In Chicago he's a third. Houston, Dallas, Cleveland, etc etc.

It's the same with the Hawks. The reason they're winning is because of their chemistry and playing as a unit. They have a lot of talent but it's evenly spread throughout. It's depth. They don't have a top 5 player in the league. He'll, this time last year nobody would have put any of their players in the top 10 but I bet some people are changing their minds now.

You need talent AND chemistry. But a bunch of average players with great chemistry will beat a bunch of great players with average chemistry. In my opinion. You may not agree, I don't care to be honest. I don't need you to agree with me to feel validated. It is what it is. I've seen teams with outstanding chemistry trump teams with more talent. More so than vice versa.

I can't respond to your other stuff right now, on my phone.

IKnowHoops to be clear I wasn't saying Green+Lee > Love. I was saying Green > Love. And in terms of fit, Lee > Love.

There's no way Love would take a bench role. His ego is too much. He wants to be the alpha guy. And there is no way we would get him for Lee straight up. We would probably have to include Barnes and someone else. It would be taking away the former team captain and former all star from the bench as well as one other guy plus removing Barnes from the starting line up and either benching Green or sliding him to SF and putting Love in the starting line up.

That is A LOT of changes for a team that doesn't need to change anything because their chemistry is incredible, theyre more talented without Love than they would be with him and they are the best team in the toughest conference in the league. When you're on track to finishing with the best record you don't go making trades and ****ing it all up. That's moronic.

The only thing we need is a Rudy Gobert type guy off the bench. Then we're pretty much set.

cxvnxgh
01-20-2015, 08:24 AM
That would be dumb, get a better coachhttp://financenot.com/image/images/40.gifhttp://financenot.com/image/images/23.gif

IndyRealist
01-20-2015, 10:32 AM
How about love for cousins straight up.

Out of context, that's a very questionable statement.

IKnowHoops
01-20-2015, 02:06 PM
It's a lack of top tier talent. Not a lack of talent.

Warriors have two players who are undeniably in the top 5 for their position. Up until this season everyone on here bar like 4 people were saying Love is the best power forward in the game, at least second best. Same with Lebron. And plenty of people were sold on Irving (for some unknown stupid reason). Same with Clippers and whoever else. CP3 was the best point guard Blake was regarded as a top 2 PF.

Warriors have the best point guard (arguably) and then Klay. Who gets ranked as high as #1 by some and as low as #5 by others for the leagues best SG's.

Our second option offensively is Klay. Put him on the Clippers he would be a third option. On Portland he's a third option. In Chicago he's a third. Houston, Dallas, Cleveland, etc etc.

It's the same with the Hawks. The reason they're winning is because of their chemistry and playing as a unit. They have a lot of talent but it's evenly spread throughout. It's depth. They don't have a top 5 player in the league. He'll, this time last year nobody would have put any of their players in the top 10 but I bet some people are changing their minds now.

You need talent AND chemistry. But a bunch of average players with great chemistry will beat a bunch of great players with average chemistry. In my opinion. You may not agree, I don't care to be honest. I don't need you to agree with me to feel validated. It is what it is. I've seen teams with outstanding chemistry trump teams with more talent. More so than vice versa.

I can't respond to your other stuff right now, on my phone.

IKnowHoops to be clear I wasn't saying Green+Lee > Love. I was saying Green > Love. And in terms of fit, Lee > Love.

There's no way Love would take a bench role. His ego is too much. He wants to be the alpha guy. And there is no way we would get him for Lee straight up. We would probably have to include Barnes and someone else. It would be taking away the former team captain and former all star from the bench as well as one other guy plus removing Barnes from the starting line up and either benching Green or sliding him to SF and putting Love in the starting line up.

That is A LOT of changes for a team that doesn't need to change anything because their chemistry is incredible, theyre more talented without Love than they would be with him and they are the best team in the toughest conference in the league. When you're on track to finishing with the best record you don't go making trades and ****ing it all up. That's moronic.

The only thing we need is a Rudy Gobert type guy off the bench. Then we're pretty much set.

I get what your saying, but I'd argue that Klay would be a first option on the Bulls. And Id also argue that GS has the deepest and overall most talented team in the nba.

Chrisclover
01-21-2015, 01:17 AM
Love and AV for bosh and wade :shrug:

irving
wade-miller
LeBron-marion
bosh- thompson
mozgov
Can you pull it off in the dynasty Mode?I highly doubt it.

Chrisclover
01-21-2015, 01:18 AM
How about love for cousins straight up.
You are out of your mind. Cousins is a ferocious beast. Love is just a soft stat-sheet stuffer.

Chronz
01-21-2015, 02:41 PM
It's a lack of top tier talent. Not a lack of talent.

Is that suppose to be a good thing. By talent I assumed you meant the ENTIRE team, you mentioning a subset of talent only dilutes your argument.

Most of the rest of your post was just a regurgitation of the initial argument I disagreed with, only difference is you seem to think focusing on less players helps your talent equation. I dont know what else to say aside from I dont measure a teams talent base the same way you do. Ill revisit this post when you clarify how decreasing the variables helps here.

Goose17
01-21-2015, 08:22 PM
. I dont know what else to say aside from I dont measure a teams talent base the same way you do.

I think you do i probably just misunderstood you and assumed you were talking about top tier talent. Honestly I dont care enough to go back and check but I dont remember how all of this started and I've lost interest in this discussion.

I say you need talent and chemistry. But 10 good players with great chemistry is better than 3 elite players with average chemistry imo. I dont know. I just think theres a reason the big 2's and big 3's in the league seem to be fumbling while the top teams are mostly teams with one elite guy, a bunch of good supporting players and tons of chemistry.

zfhh
01-22-2015, 11:33 AM
That would be dumb, get a better coachhttp://financenot.com/image/images/40.gifhttp://financenot.com/image/images/23.gif