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dodgersuck
01-13-2015, 11:05 AM
Last night Nikola Vucevic absolutely ended the life of Pau Gasol. How good is this guy? I'm not too familiar with advanced basketball statistics but from what I can tell he is quickly becoming one of the best centers in the NBA.

Right now he's 5th in PER for centers, fourth in PPG, and fifth in RPG, is he a top five center in the NBA? Second best center in the East behind Drummond?

As a Sixer fan it kills me to see his 33/16 lines and the guy is a double double machine.

Here's Vucevic putting Pau in the dirt: https://vine.co/v/ODnAUMrhaQE

BHF
01-13-2015, 11:15 AM
Dunk of the season for me so far.

M.I.A.
01-13-2015, 11:17 AM
Last night Nikola Vucevic absolutely ended the life of Pau Gasol. How good is this guy? I'm not too familiar with advanced basketball statistics but from what I can tell he is quickly becoming one of the best centers in the NBA.

Right now he's 5th in PER for centers, fourth in PPG, and fifth in RPG, is he a top five center in the NBA? Second best center in the East behind Drummond?

As a Sixer fan it kills me to see his 33/16 lines and the guy is a double double machine.

Here's Vucevic putting Pau in the dirt: https://vine.co/v/ODnAUMrhaQE

Nah, I've got to think Horford is better, too.

KnickNyKnick
01-13-2015, 11:18 AM
damn! said sit down old man!

LanceUpperCut
01-13-2015, 11:19 AM
Dunk of the season for me so far.

Really? It was nice but nothing too crazy far from DOTY.

Chi StateOfMind
01-13-2015, 11:27 AM
Lmao. I was laughing how Taj went to help him up but at the same time was like "damn Pau get up"

GiantsSwaGG
01-13-2015, 11:34 AM
I said back than the sixers made a mistake trading Nikola. Dude is already a stud

dalton749
01-13-2015, 12:00 PM
Lol Drummond best center

SeoulBeatz
01-13-2015, 12:06 PM
Last night Nikola Vucevic absolutely ended the life of Pau Gasol. How good is this guy? I'm not too familiar with advanced basketball statistics but from what I can tell he is quickly becoming one of the best centers in the NBA.

Right now he's 5th in PER for centers, fourth in PPG, and fifth in RPG, is he a top five center in the NBA? Second best center in the East behind Drummond?

As a Sixer fan it kills me to see his 33/16 lines and the guy is a double double machine.

Here's Vucevic putting Pau in the dirt: https://vine.co/v/ODnAUMrhaQE

Blame Andrew Bynum.

D-Leethal
01-13-2015, 12:28 PM
I am very excited to see how this Orlando team develops for the long haul. They seem to have every piece to be legit - just need some more progression from the young guys and an upgrade with Frye.

Taj Gibson would look awfully nice at the 4 on that roster...

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-13-2015, 12:30 PM
Blame Andrew Bynum. Yeah trading for Bynum was horrible. Did 76ers get a pick in that Iggy trade as well though?

dodgersuck
01-13-2015, 12:32 PM
Lol Drummond best center

I mean the East is kind of barren of any really good centers. Horford has been real good lately but who else is there? Bosh? Valanciunas?

SeoulBeatz
01-13-2015, 12:39 PM
Yeah trading for Bynum was horrible. Did 76ers get a pick in that Iggy trade as well though?

nope.

Andre Iguodala, Nikola Vucevic, Mo Harkless, and a 1st rounder for Andrew Bynum and Jason Richardson.

Brutal trade.

M.I.A.
01-13-2015, 12:59 PM
Pitiful D by Gasol

2-ONE-5
01-13-2015, 01:26 PM
Vuc is better than Drummond

M.I.A.
01-13-2015, 01:37 PM
Vuc is better than Drummond

I think so also.

Ron Pearlman
01-13-2015, 02:14 PM
Vuc is better than Drummond

It's funny how butt hurt Toronto fans are towards Andre Drummond. Vuc doesn't block shots and his team sucks, he is however a better scorer than Dre.

So, better scorer = better player?

dodgersuck
01-13-2015, 03:02 PM
It's funny how butt hurt Toronto fans are towards Andre Drummond. Vuc doesn't block shots and his team sucks, he is however a better scorer than Dre.

So, better scorer = better player?

They're referring to Vucevic not Valanciunas

Chronz
01-13-2015, 03:08 PM
Im tired of these guys just showing promise. Make some ducking noise

Ron Pearlman
01-13-2015, 03:14 PM
They're referring to Vucevic not Valanciunas

So am I? I said Vuc, not Val. The person who claims that he is better than Andre right now is a Toronto Raptor fan this year. Which is why I brought up the whole part about being butt hurt.

I would love to hear the reasoning.

Matter.
01-13-2015, 03:46 PM
Best center in the east

2-ONE-5
01-13-2015, 04:00 PM
It's funny how butt hurt Toronto fans are towards Andre Drummond. Vuc doesn't block shots and his team sucks, he is however a better scorer than Dre.

So, better scorer = better player?

well im not a Toronto fan but Drmmound doesnt half the offensive game that Vuc has, its not even all that close either.

2-ONE-5
01-13-2015, 04:01 PM
So am I? I said Vuc, not Val. The person who claims that he is better than Andre right now is a Toronto Raptor fan this year. Which is why I brought up the whole part about being butt hurt.

I would love to hear the reasoning.

why would you think i am a raptors fan?

tredigs
01-13-2015, 04:09 PM
Pau still crushed him on the other end. Despite some nice stat lines Vuv rarely makes a large positive impact on a ball game. Not a winner.

2-ONE-5
01-13-2015, 04:51 PM
you realize he plays for the Magic right? lol

Bruno
01-13-2015, 04:55 PM
he's the real deal.

the magic dominated the Howard trade. nobodys going to want to face the magic in 2 years. those five players they have is a great young core.

RLundi
01-13-2015, 04:59 PM
Nah, I've got to think Horford is better, too.

Nah he isn't.

RLundi
01-13-2015, 05:14 PM
Pau still crushed him on the other end. Despite some nice stat lines Vuv rarely makes a large positive impact on a ball game. Not a winner.

If Pau crushed him, what did he do to Pau? They essentially canceled each other out.

And how do you figure he rarely makes an impact? Also, how do you figure he isn't a winner...? Because the Magic aren't winning? That's conpletely reflective of Vucevic? How often do you watch them play? These comments and logic are extremely short-sighted and indicative of box-score surfing.

M.I.A.
01-13-2015, 07:36 PM
Nah he isn't.

Opinion noted. Thank you for expressing it.

PurpleLynch
01-13-2015, 08:03 PM
Both Drummond and Vucevic have a very high ceiling,but they are still very raw.
Offensevely Vucevic is better than Drummond.
Defensevely I'd give the edge to Drummond for rebounding and Stls/blks averages.
Vucevic has amazing athleticism,Drummond has insane athleticism.

Do they deserve n.1 spot in centers of the EC? Maybe...but remember,Horford and Noah are also in the competition.

D-Leethal
01-13-2015, 08:15 PM
Im tired of these guys just showing promise. Make some ducking noise

I think in the next year or 2 they bust out a little bit like the Blazers did, and that talented-as-hell starting 5 will learn to win some games and become a force in the East. Still super young though.

tredigs
01-13-2015, 08:17 PM
If Pau crushed him, what did he do to Pau? They essentially canceled each other out.

And how do you figure he rarely makes an impact? Also, how do you figure he isn't a winner...? Because the Magic aren't winning? That's conpletely reflective of Vucevic? How often do you watch them play? These comments and logic are extremely short-sighted and indicative of box-score surfing.

If I was simply box-score surfing, I'd probably think Vuv was a very impactful player. The Magic are negligibly better at best when he's on the court, and his Box +/-, VORP, RPM, etc are the stats I'd look at to back up that claim. Not the PPG+RPG.

M.I.A.
01-13-2015, 09:30 PM
Both Drummond and Vucevic have a very high ceiling,but they are still very raw.
Offensevely Vucevic is better than Drummond.
Defensevely I'd give the edge to Drummond for rebounding and Stls/blks averages.
Vucevic has amazing athleticism,Drummond has insane athleticism.

Do they deserve n.1 spot in centers of the EC? Maybe...but remember,Horford and Noah are also in the competition.

Horford does very well considering he is really a PF forced to play C. I just wish the stupid Hawks owners had forked out the cash and gotten Howard.

RLundi
01-14-2015, 06:47 AM
Opinion noted. Thank you for expressing it.

;)

RLundi
01-14-2015, 07:02 AM
If I was simply box-score surfing, I'd probably think Vuv was a very impactful player. The Magic are negligibly better at best when he's on the court, and his Box +/-, VORP, RPM, etc are the stats I'd look at to back up that claim. Not the PPG+RPG.

If you aren't box score-surfing, then what are you doing? Are you watching the games?

I won't speak on +/- because I genuinely hate the statistic and think its altogether pointless but whatever, I understand why it has use. His VORP suggests he's about above average. His PER suggests he's above average. His play and impact by simply watching him show he's above average. I just want to know what qualifies him as "not a winner." You know as well as I do that statistics are literally a single variable in an opinion on a player; a major part is watching the man. To say he rarely makes a large impact is wrong. To say he's not a winner is wholly subjective.

Ron Pearlman
01-14-2015, 09:04 AM
why would you think i am a raptors fan?

I'm sorry dude, I could have sworn your avatar was Raptors related.

Whether their scoring is close or not, Drummond is a better rebounder, and 10x the defender (and it's not even close). I would much rather have my big defend, then score. I guess it's a matter of preference? (I guess). It's hardly a jumping off point.

Ron Pearlman
01-14-2015, 09:07 AM
Both Drummond and Vucevic have a very high ceiling,but they are still very raw.
Offensevely Vucevic is better than Drummond.
Defensevely I'd give the edge to Drummond for rebounding and Stls/blks averages.
Vucevic has amazing athleticism,Drummond has insane athleticism.

Do they deserve n.1 spot in centers of the EC? Maybe...but remember,Horford and Noah are also in the competition.

The "edge" defensively?

Drummond is so much better than Vucevic on the defensive side of the floor it's not even funny. No one is debating what happens on offense, but Drummond's team is winning because of his contributions. Horford is definitely in this conversation. No way Noah is.

Drummond, Vucevic, Horford, Valanciunas in whatever order. (trying to think of if I'm forgetting anyone).

Goose17
01-14-2015, 09:58 AM
The "edge" defensively?

Drummond is so much better than Vucevic on the defensive side of the floor it's not even funny. No one is debating what happens on offense, but Drummond's team is winning because of his contributions. Horford is definitely in this conversation. No way Noah is.

Drummond, Vucevic, Horford, Valanciunas in whatever order. (trying to think of if I'm forgetting anyone).

I think Noah or Al Jefferson are the best centers in the East personally. Bosh is up there as well.

2-ONE-5
01-14-2015, 10:04 AM
Noah and Al Jeff are still the top Centers east for sure. When Drummond learns how to score consistently in ways other than put backs he will rise some.

Ron Pearlman
01-14-2015, 10:53 AM
I would guesstimate he's hitting around 60% of his hook shots this season without looking at the numbers. Regardless, there seems to be a noticeable trend forming here with a heavy premium placed on scoring. I get it, but I don't agree with it. I don't consider Bosh or Jefferson to be true centers which is why I didn't include them. I'm a big Noah fan, but the guy is breaking down. He's also inferior to the other players mentioned in this topic based on the theory that scoring > everything. Serious question, would you take him over any of the 4 centers I mentioned?


Another thing, Monroe is basically a center as well. He and Dre definitely have a different style, but these other centers don't have to share the paint except for Noah who has been garbage this season because of it and other reasons I've listed.

2-ONE-5
01-14-2015, 11:13 AM
when has Jefferson not been a C?

Ron Pearlman
01-14-2015, 11:18 AM
In Boston. Although that was brief and it's not a valid point.

2-ONE-5
01-14-2015, 11:21 AM
that doesnt count, that was how long ago?

Ron Pearlman
01-14-2015, 11:30 AM
He hasn't exactly been effective as a Center. I realize all anyone here cares about is PPG, but he's had like 4 winning seasons and one of them was in the worst conference in history. One of them was in a lockout. His teams in Minnesotta were God awful.

2-ONE-5
01-14-2015, 11:44 AM
Jefferson is was a top 10 player last season

Goose17
01-14-2015, 12:24 PM
He hasn't exactly been effective as a Center. I realize all anyone here cares about is PPG, but he's had like 4 winning seasons and one of them was in the worst conference in history. One of them was in a lockout. His teams in Minnesotta were God awful.

He's one of the few high caliber post scorers left in this league, his footwork is beautiful to watch for any basketball purist. He's a solid rebounder and can hold his own defensively. How is he not an effective center? He pretty much carried Charlotte last season.

He is literally an entire tier above some of the people you have been mentioning who have very little post game at all and are pretty much on par with him defensively or maybe slightly better, with the exception of a couple.

And stop being so condescending, "I realise all anyone here cares about is PPG".. oh really? Well your perception is wrong. Maybe you should spend more time on here before casting such a blanket statement. If you're going to act so arrogant you're not going to get much of a discussion out of anyone here. You've been on this forum for five minutes and you already know what everyone cares about? Sit down noob and conduct yourself properly.

Ron Pearlman
01-14-2015, 12:33 PM
lol noob. Alright tough guy. It was really condescending to suggest that the only thing people care about here is PPG after pretty much every comment here has suggested that is why Vucevic is better than Drummond which is a joke. As for Jefferson, I don't think last season was all that impressive for Charlotte considering how weak the conference was.

Ron Pearlman
01-14-2015, 12:35 PM
So please explain to me how is he an entire tier above other players mentioned here.

Also, suggesting that he was a top 10 player last year further proves my point. Is it still condescending because I don't agree with an asinine statement like that? Perhaps you two should stop stating your opinion as fact.

2-ONE-5
01-14-2015, 12:40 PM
you must not have seen Big Al play last year, like i said, top 10 player last season no matter what conf he plays in. Its not just about scoring its about how you are able to score and Jefferson has such a big aresenal that makes it hard to stop him most nights, Vuc is working his way to that type of game too it seems while Drummond is still in thart DeAndre Jordan mold

Ron Pearlman
01-14-2015, 12:46 PM
Lebron
Durrant
Chris Paul
Paul George
Duncan
Curry
Lowry
Aldridge
Griffin
Marc Gasol


I'm going to stop myself there. Please explain to me how he was better than any of those players last year.

dalton749
01-14-2015, 12:59 PM
al jefferson for sure, with noah, horford, and maybe brook lopez up there follwing if theyre all healthy
drummond, valanciunas, vucevic, gortat, hibert, plumlee all fit in the next group somewhere imo where the case could be made for any of them

drummond needs to learn to hit a free throw so he can close games and cut down on fouls, valanciunas needs to work on understanding rotations quicker and passing out of doubles, vucevic has the best situation to develop right now but really needs to work on his defence
none of them are there yet to be considered the best

Ron Pearlman
01-14-2015, 01:03 PM
Thats valid^. I don't disagree that Al Jeff should be considered among the top and potentially the best. I disagree that there is a tiers difference. My original comment was made assuming he was a PF naturally which was my mistake. I totally disagree with the notion that he was a top 10 player last year. And if he were on my team he would be playing power forward.

Ron Pearlman
01-14-2015, 01:04 PM
Valanciunas scared the crap out of me the other night. I don't understand why you guys went away from him.

Goose17
01-14-2015, 01:05 PM
lol noob. Alright tough guy. It was really condescending to suggest that the only thing people care about here is PPG after pretty much every comment here has suggested that is why Vucevic is better than Drummond which is a joke. As for Jefferson, I don't think last season was all that impressive for Charlotte considering how weak the conference was.

So a couple of people say something and you assume the hundreds of members of this forum are all the same? Really? Damn that's short sighted as hell.

And tough guy? I wasn't being tough. You're new. That makes you a noob. You want to act all arrogant and know-it-all go ahead. I'm not wasting my time conversing with someone who has a crappy attitude after joining the forum for five minutes and doesn't even seem to have respect for other people's opinions at all referring to them as a "joke" because they differ from his own.

You're the only person here stating their opinion as fact. Get over yourself.

Goose17
01-14-2015, 01:07 PM
You don't even know what position Al plays and you're forcing arguments against him. Ridiculous.

And I said he was a tier above some of the names you mentioned not all of them.

And I never said he was a top 10 player.

Ron Pearlman
01-14-2015, 01:14 PM
Listen, If you want to talk basketball we can, but you have said nothing that would warrant you calling me a noob. I don't care how many posts I have, I've been around the block a few times.

My attitude was just fine until I was "told" that Vuc is already better than Drummond. That is an opinion, and an opinion like that would lead me to suggest that person probably values scoring more than anything else. Fair enough?

The Jefferson stuff we can agree to disagree on. center and power forward are interchangeable in today's league and he's undersized. You brought up Bosh, who is only a center in a small ball line up, and without the best player in the world playing alongside of him it wouldn't have worked.

The top 10 stuff was directed at someone else, sorry I'm on my phone.

dalton749
01-14-2015, 01:14 PM
Valanciunas scared the crap out of me the other night. I don't understand why you guys went away from him.

casey sucks and cant run an offense + prefers vets over young guys
jv will eventually be a 20/10 guy no question but theyre bringing him along slow, making sure he learns the game the right way so hes had to earn everything on the defensive side of the ball before he gets his on offense

Ron Pearlman
01-14-2015, 02:15 PM
Btw goose, sorry if I was condescending. I'm not trying to make enemies here, just thought some of the comments were extreme.

DaBUU
01-14-2015, 02:19 PM
Most underrated big in the league

Goose17
01-14-2015, 02:24 PM
Btw goose, sorry if I was condescending. I'm not trying to make enemies here, just thought some of the comments were extreme.

No worries. I get it.

Lim
01-14-2015, 06:38 PM
Doug Collins must feel insanely stupid.

5ass
01-15-2015, 12:57 AM
Vucevic has been great. That dunk on Pau surprised me. All vuc has to do is finish strong at the rim and continue to harness his game and he can be almost (but not quite?) a #1 option offensively.

Htownballa1622
01-15-2015, 01:02 AM
I love Vucevic's game. Bright young center.

Philly missed out.

FlashBolt
01-15-2015, 01:55 AM
He's not even making it to the Eastern All Stars... It's just a joke. This dude is hands down underrated.

tredigs
01-15-2015, 05:07 AM
Since he's getting a ton of love and I seem to be one of the few who is mostly unimpressed, here's a few interesting stats on Vucevic:

He's #2 in the NBA in "uncontested rebounds per game" - IE any rebound where no other player is within 3.5 feet (This is the stat that Love was lambasted for in Minny when people insisted he got so many extra rebounds by not contesting shots and simply hoping for the board). Vuv's contested rebound% for applicable bigs ranks 38th (and actually that is tied with Melo, who is the only non pure PF/C on the top 40 list).

Probably goes along with the fact of why a young/spry 4th year 7 footer who gets >34 mpg isn't blocking 1 shot a game. He's sitting back waiting for the board.

His opponents are also shooting ~55% on him at the rim, which on the volume they're doing it (>8 attempts a night) ranks 3rd worst in the NBA. For reference of %'s of guys on similar volumes, Valancunis holds his opponents to 49%, Cousins 46.6%, and Ibaka 40%.

Going back to my earlier post on him, while he is a talent and a nice scorer (doesn't do much for others with the ball, so coupled with his absence on the offensive glass, the overall offensive game still leaves a lot to be desired), I think Vuv is overrated, and not a winner. These stats I just took a little time to look up help illustrate some of the reasons why.

M.I.A.
01-15-2015, 09:18 AM
Since he's getting a ton of love and I seem to be one of the few who is mostly unimpressed, here's a few interesting stats on Vucevic:

He's #2 in the NBA in "uncontested rebounds per game" - IE any rebound where no other player is within 3.5 feet (This is the stat that Love was lambasted for in Minny when people insisted he got so many extra rebounds by not contesting shots and simply hoping for the board). Vuv's contested rebound% for applicable bigs ranks 38th (and actually that is tied with Melo, who is the only non pure PF/C on the top 40 list).

Probably goes along with the fact of why a young/spry 4th year 7 footer who gets >34 mpg isn't blocking 1 shot a game. He's sitting back waiting for the board.

His opponents are also shooting ~55% on him at the rim, which on the volume they're doing it (>8 attempts a night) ranks 3rd worst in the NBA. For reference of %'s of guys on similar volumes, Valancunis holds his opponents to 49%, Cousins 46.6%, and Ibaka 40%.

Going back to my earlier post on him, while he is a talent and a nice scorer (doesn't do much for others with the ball, so coupled with his absence on the offensive glass, the overall offensive game still leaves a lot to be desired), I think Vuv is overrated, and not a winner. These stats I just took a little time to look up help illustrate some of the reasons why.

Good post.