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CELTICS4LYFE
01-12-2015, 07:58 AM
Boston Celtics
Los Angeles Lakers
Philadelphia 76ers
New York Knickerbockers


4 of the oldest most storied franchise in the NBA.

4 teams that will on be in competition for the lottery this season.

Who makes the return to glory first?

goingfor28
01-12-2015, 08:05 AM
Knicks

PurpleLynch
01-12-2015, 08:17 AM
Lakers are in the worst spot,unfortunately. Kobe's contract won't allow us to make room for big names and our young talent is bad overall(Randle's judgment is suspended,we'll see next year).
Philadelphia now has the best young crop of the four teams you have mentioned(Noel,McDaniels,Embiid,MCW).
Celtics and Knicks are the two who will come back to glory first imo:the former because have a lot of assets to work with and the latter because they have PJax as their boss.


BUT,before any of this team will see a championship,at least three years from now have to pass.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-12-2015, 08:25 AM
All four rosters look depressing so far. Yeah 76ers got Embiid but hasn't played yet. Smart hasn't shown much of a promise yet. Knicks only have Melo and Hardaway. Lakers got old man Kobe and injured Randle.

85BearsDefense
01-12-2015, 08:25 AM
Boston and it's really not close. Knicks are rebuilding with an aging former star making max money. Good luck. Lakers are a mess. 76ers meh. They'll be 2.

Boston


76ers

Knicks
Lakers

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-12-2015, 08:36 AM
Boston and it's really not close. Knicks are rebuilding with an aging former star making max money. Good luck. Lakers are a mess. 76ers meh. They'll be 2.

Boston


76ers

Knicks
Lakers

How you figure Boston? All they have is Smart and Pressey. Tons of late first since Nets are in playoffs and second rounder's isn't much to get excited about. This isn't the NFL. Only 15 spots for a max roster. Also not many teams wanna move down. The cream of the crop is the top. Yeah can move up one or two spots packaging picks. But no team is dumping top 4 picks for late picks.

85BearsDefense
01-12-2015, 08:37 AM
Boston and it's really not close. Knicks are rebuilding with an aging former star making max money. Good luck. Lakers are a mess. 76ers meh. They'll be 2.

Boston


76ers

Knicks
Lakers

How you figure Boston? All they have is Smart and Pressey. Tons of late first since Nets are in playoffs and second rounder's isn't much to get excited about. This isn't the NFL. Only 15 spots for a max roster. Also not many teams wanna move down. The cream of the crop is the top. Yeah can move up one or two spots packaging picks. But no team is dumping top 4 picks for late picks.

Their GM gets it. They've stock piled assets and could easily ship 3 of those picks or more for a star when ready to compete.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-12-2015, 08:43 AM
What star for late picks? Unless Celtics win lottery then pick a player and trade it but for who? Harden trade was like once in a life time star traded.

PurpleLynch
01-12-2015, 09:42 AM
How you figure Boston? All they have is Smart and Pressey. Tons of late first since Nets are in playoffs and second rounder's isn't much to get excited about. This isn't the NFL. Only 15 spots for a max roster. Also not many teams wanna move down. The cream of the crop is the top. Yeah can move up one or two spots packaging picks. But no team is dumping top 4 picks for late picks.

Olynyk,Sullinger and Zeller could be good role players.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-12-2015, 09:45 AM
Role players can be had after the core is formed. Don't build a team around role players first then find the core later. Bucks use to do that all the time. Spinning their wheels for 8th seed playoffs or bust.

2-ONE-5
01-12-2015, 09:58 AM
Boston and it's really not close. Knicks are rebuilding with an aging former star making max money. Good luck. Lakers are a mess. 76ers meh. They'll be 2.

Boston


76ers

Knicks
Lakers

how is not close? Not even being a homer its the sixers followed by the celtics.

cmellofan15
01-12-2015, 10:10 AM
how is not close? Not even being a homer its the sixers followed by the celtics.

yeah, I'm with you. I do think the Knicks are close behind the C's with the the Lakers being pretty far behind that.

mudvayne387
01-12-2015, 10:18 AM
This is a bit tricky. Long term both PHI and BOS seem to be in better positions. But we are talking 5-6 years down the road potentially. NY and LA are betting the farm that players will still be attracted to playing in two of the best sports markets in America but that is debatable. In today's NBA, high profile free agents have everything to gain by staying with their current teams especially if they are already competitive.

If I had to take a logical guess, I would say NY at the moment. They have cap flexibility and should have a top three pick. Their best bet would be to target younger players in stagnant situations who cost less than max. Monroe, Dragic, Harris, Green, etc ... They already have one of the best scorers in the league and should be able to surround him with enough talent to take some of the pressure off of him. The problem is I can see them overpaying for one of those guys and limiting their options.

torocan
01-12-2015, 10:45 AM
Without knowing who signs where in the off season, I'd have to say that the 76ers and Boston are in the best position to build a long-term team.

However, that can all change at the drop of a hat if a FA signs with either the Knicks or Lakers. In terms of FA, I'd probably say that LA has a small advantage over the Knicks (stronger role players, but the Knicks have PJax -- I consider Kobe vs Melo to be a wash in terms of FA appeal).

Right now all 4 teams are in flux and we won't really know until we hit the off season where they all stack up.

nycericanguy
01-12-2015, 10:51 AM
Without knowing who signs where in the off season, I'd have to say that the 76ers and Boston are in the best position to build a long-term team.

However, that can all change at the drop of a hat if a FA signs with either the Knicks or Lakers. In terms of FA, I'd probably say that LA has a small advantage over the Knicks (stronger role players, but the Knicks have PJax -- I consider Kobe vs Melo to be a wash in terms of FA appeal).

Right now all 4 teams are in flux and we won't really know until we hit the off season where they all stack up.

seriously?...lol. A 37 year old Kobe who has said he will retire after next year has the same appeal as Melo who is probably still in his prime and signed for 4 more years?

CELTICS4LYFE
01-12-2015, 10:54 AM
I would personally say it's the 6ers that are in the best position right now, they are a couple years ahead of what Boston is trying to do and have talented young players already.

Boston had a ridiculous amount of Picks and cap space in the next few years but we got to wait to see how the dominoes fall. I must say Danny is making a lot of "friends" with all these little trades hopefully they pay him back when we try to get some big name trades.

Then I think it's the Lakers they are already in rebuild mode but crippled by Kobes contract(should've done a Dirk deal for them)

The Knicks I don't know where they are going. They were supposed to compete this year but instead are headed for the lottery, just gave Melo a big contract

nycericanguy
01-12-2015, 10:55 AM
I would personally say it's the 6ers that are in the best position right now, they are a couple years ahead of what Boston is trying to do and have talented young players already.

Boston had a ridiculous amount of Picks and cap space in the next few years but we got to wait to see how the dominoes fall. I must say Danny is making a lot of "friends" with all these little trades hopefully they pay him back when we try to get some big name trades.

Then I think it's the Lakers they are already in rebuild mode but crippled by Kobes contract(should've done a Dirk deal for them)

The Knicks I don't know where they are going. They were supposed to compete this year but instead are headed for the lottery, just gave Melo a big contract

Knicks were never competing this year, at best they were a 42-47 win team.

Is it really a bad thing if they end up with the #1 pick? It's not like melo is 35 years old.

Only with NY do people think a star in place + #1 pick + $30m in cap is a bad thing.

Losing sucks, but its much better for NY to get a top 3 pick than a #8 seed this year

CELTICS4LYFE
01-12-2015, 11:02 AM
42 wins in the east is competing.

Yes a high draft pick is better than being a playoff team for a rebuilding team but that wasn't the expectations for them to start the year.

They could do a quick rebuild and try to land another star with that pick and cap space. Maybe Gasol-Pjackson relationship will help them land Marc? Who knows

colinskik
01-12-2015, 11:12 AM
I guess it depends what you consider a "return to glory." Lakers and Celtics are recents champions, while 76ers and Knicks haven't sniffed real success in more than a decade. So in that sense, Philly and NY have an easier road to their version of glory.

But for real, I think the Knicks have the best chance of turning it around the quickest, but also stand to be the most disappointed. If they get a top three pick and add a big name to play with Melo along with another FA who fits their system, they could be a playoff team again by next year.

However if they strike out in FA then it'll be bleak for a long time.

Boston and Philly have both set themselves up nicely to improve no matter what. It just depends on how high their young talent can take them. (So far I'm pretty disappointed in both Smart and Noel FWIW.)

And then there's the Lakers. I'm not really sure what their plan is going forward, but they can't truly hit the reset button until after Kobe retires. Could take a while for them to get back.

colinskik
01-12-2015, 11:19 AM
42 wins in the east is competing.

Yes a high draft pick is better than being a playoff team for a rebuilding team but that wasn't the expectations for them to start the year.

They could do a quick rebuild and try to land another star with that pick and cap space. Maybe Gasol-Pjackson relationship will help them land Marc? Who knows

42 wins means you'll compete to make the playoffs and then most likely be bounced in the first round. Not worth the trouble.

Knicks were hoping they could make the playoffs as a bottom seed to distract fans from the rebuilding situation, but that's an unrealistic goal that almost never pans out.

Phil can say he had higher hopes for this team, but you gotta think he knew it was going to be a struggle. He even said it would be hard at the start of the year and before he was even hired talked about the Knicks' clumsy roster configuration. He's not a dope. He knows how to talk to the media and say the right things. In reality, this is the best situation for the Knicks cause they can really start fresh next year. Next year they don't own their pick, so being a bottom feeding playoff team wouldn't have done them any good going forward.

LanceUpperCut
01-12-2015, 11:21 AM
How you figure Boston? All they have is Smart and Pressey. Tons of late first since Nets are in playoffs and second rounder's isn't much to get excited about. This isn't the NFL. Only 15 spots for a max roster. Also not many teams wanna move down. The cream of the crop is the top. Yeah can move up one or two spots packaging picks. But no team is dumping top 4 picks for late picks.

What? You pick Pressey but leave out Olynyk and Sullinger.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-12-2015, 11:43 AM
What? You pick Pressey but leave out Olynyk and Sullinger. Their okay. No real barn burners though. But Celtics could do better right? Since if they were awesome they be in playoffs. Also for a 7 footer in Olynyk you would think he'd grab more then 5 boards a game. Also being a lottery team and dumping Rondo and Green you would think Olynyk would be padding his stats for a new big contract. But looks like he's settling for the norm.

KnicksorBust
01-12-2015, 11:54 AM
Lakers are clearly the worst with cap killing Kobe and no elite talent.
Celtics are 3rd with no franchise player and very little chance of getting a top 3 pick in this year's draft.
Sixers are 2nd with a legitimate high upside player in Embiid and two talented young players MCW and Noel.
Knicks are comfortably 1st with a franchise player in place, a virtual lock at a top 3 pick, and tons of cap space in the absolute perfect summer to max players out.

The most absurd argument I've heard is that the Knicks might "overpay" for non-max players. My counter would be that in this market you can't overpay a FA in this market (ex: Greg Monroe/Goran Dragic). Even if you max them both out, when the new cap jumps $25-$30 million in the next 2 seasons they will look like good buys. There has never been a better season to have cap space.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-12-2015, 12:25 PM
I read a article stating Knicks might just sign B players to one year deals and wait till 2016 free agency and hope for Durant. Think it was basketballinsiders or espn. Cant find it now.

nycericanguy
01-12-2015, 12:41 PM
I read a article stating Knicks might just sign B players to one year deals and wait till 2016 free agency and hope for Durant. Think it was basketballinsiders or espn. Cant find it now.

i dont think even "b" level players are taking 1 year deals. Sounds bogus to me. Only argument might be some guys wanting to be FA's in 2016 when the cap goes up... but that;s a huge risk for any player. even if the cap goes up $8-10m in 1 year, that's still only a 1-2m pay raise per player.

Corey
01-12-2015, 12:43 PM
How you figure Boston? All they have is Smart and Pressey. Tons of late first since Nets are in playoffs and second rounder's isn't much to get excited about. This isn't the NFL. Only 15 spots for a max roster. Also not many teams wanna move down. The cream of the crop is the top. Yeah can move up one or two spots packaging picks. But no team is dumping top 4 picks for late picks.

Why are you even mentioning Pressey? He's literally a d-league player and he doesnt factor into Boston long term at all. That statement alone makes me thing you dont really know much about Boston's situation moving forward.

Celtics have Marcus Smart, 19 year old James Young, Jared Sullinger (22), Kelly Olynyk (23), Tyler Zeller (24), Avery Bradley (24), and Jae Crowder on the roster already with a slew of picks and cap space coming in.

Even if they're all just role players, the Celtics still have cap to sign two legit stars or a handful of solid players moving forward.

Corey
01-12-2015, 12:54 PM
Their okay. No real barn burners though. But Celtics could do better right? Since if they were awesome they be in playoffs. Also for a 7 footer in Olynyk you would think he'd grab more then 5 boards a game. Also being a lottery team and dumping Rondo and Green you would think Olynyk would be padding his stats for a new big contract. But looks like he's settling for the norm.

Per 36, Olynyk averages 16.5 points, 8 rebounds on 51% shooting and 35% shooting from 3 as a 7 footer.

I think your rebounding expectations for a 7' stretch forward are unrealistic.

He's a player.

Additionally, You bring up Rondo and Green being traded affecting Olynyk, but he's still in limited minutes because Boston has Sullinger, Bass, Zeller, Crowder, and until last game Jeff Green on the roster. It's not like they can just hand him the keys and bone everyone else. The Celtics are trying to develop multiple players at once.

Still, you bringing Pressey into this conversation is absolutely silly. He's nothing. Sullinger and Olynyk are fringe starters on good teams as of right now, with pretty decent ceilings moving forward.

Ron Pearlman
01-12-2015, 01:01 PM
Their okay. No real barn burners though. But Celtics could do better right? Since if they were awesome they be in playoffs. Also for a 7 footer in Olynyk you would think he'd grab more then 5 boards a game. Also being a lottery team and dumping Rondo and Green you would think Olynyk would be padding his stats for a new big contract. But looks like he's settling for the norm.

Olynyk is probably their best player.

KnicksorBust
01-12-2015, 01:19 PM
Why are you even mentioning Pressey? He's literally a d-league player and he doesnt factor into Boston long term at all. That statement alone makes me thing you dont really know much about Boston's situation moving forward.

Celtics have Marcus Smart, 19 year old James Young, Jared Sullinger (22), Kelly Olynyk (23), Tyler Zeller (24), Avery Bradley (24), and Jae Crowder on the roster already with a slew of picks and cap space coming in.

Even if they're all just role players, the Celtics still have cap to sign two legit stars or a handful of solid players moving forward.

So do the Knicks. And the Knicks have Carmelo Anthony. And the Knicks will have a top 3 pick in the draft. It's not even close when comparing Celtics and Knicks futures right now. Sixers are the only team of the 4 that could "Return to Glory" more impressively.

Jamiecballer
01-12-2015, 01:22 PM
Boston Celtics
Los Angeles Lakers
Philadelphia 76ers
New York Knickerbockers


4 of the oldest most storied franchise in the NBA.

4 teams that will on be in competition for the lottery this season.

Who makes the return to glory first?

Wow. I mean, i knew that all four of those franchises were in the dumps but I never really realized how big that is. And the NBA is still raking in the money hand over fist. Well done NBA!

My answer to the question is sixers. I just see them as having the best combination of GM/coach.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-12-2015, 01:26 PM
Per 36, Olynyk averages 16.5 points, 8 rebounds on 51% shooting and 35% shooting from 3 as a 7 footer.

I think your rebounding expectations for a 7' stretch forward are unrealistic.

He's a player.

Additionally, You bring up Rondo and Green being traded affecting Olynyk, but he's still in limited minutes because Boston has Sullinger, Bass, Zeller, Crowder, and until last game Jeff Green on the roster. It's not like they can just hand him the keys and bone everyone else. The Celtics are trying to develop multiple players at once.

Still, you bringing Pressey into this conversation is absolutely silly. He's nothing. Sullinger and Olynyk are fringe starters on good teams as of right now, with pretty decent ceilings moving forward.

Not that hard to develop multiple young players at once. Bucks say hello with Giannis, Knight, Henson, Middleton, Marshall, JOB while Parker and Ingles injured. As well as tuck in veteran win now pieces as in Mayo, Zaza, Ersan, Bayless, Dudley and Sanders. I brought up Pressey as a Bucks fan as thinking trade. He be only player I be interested in for trade. Not much else exciting for Celtics for trade pieces as a Bucks perspective. Glad Bucks didn't fall in the draft. I didn't want Smart.

Corey
01-12-2015, 01:31 PM
So do the Knicks. And the Knicks have Carmelo Anthony. And the Knicks will have a top 3 pick in the draft. It's not even close when comparing Celtics and Knicks futures right now. Sixers are the only team of the 4 that could "Return to Glory" more impressively.

I didnt say a word about the Knicks. I think they're in a good situation too. I wasn't trying to argue against that. I was simply expanding on the Celtics mentions in this thread.

Corey
01-12-2015, 01:35 PM
Not that hard to develop multiple young players at once. Bucks say hello with Giannis, Knight, Henson, Middleton, Marshall, JOB while Parker and Ingles injured. As well as tuck in veteran win now pieces as in Mayo, Zaza, Ersan, Bayless, Dudley and Sanders. I brought up Pressey as a Bucks fan as thinking trade. He be only player I be interested in for trade. Not much else exciting for Celtics for trade pieces as a Bucks perspective. Glad Bucks didn't fall in the draft. I didn't want Smart.

If you're interested in Pressey as a trade piece, I really dont know what to tell you. He's not good and he's not going to be in the league for a long time. He's a 3/4th point guard on a team.

I didnt want Smart either, but he's played well the last month.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-12-2015, 01:49 PM
So do the Knicks. And the Knicks have Carmelo Anthony. And the Knicks will have a top 3 pick in the draft. It's not even close when comparing Celtics and Knicks futures right now. Sixers are the only team of the 4 that could "Return to Glory" more impressively.

No you don't. 1 yes. 2 no. Said this to you in the other thread, but like the Knick forum, you guys act like there is no such thing as a salary cap.

After the draft, you'll have 38 committed to like 6 guys. That leaves roughly 28 million for at minimum 6 players. If 4 of those guys are minimum players, that leaves 26 mill at most for 2 guys, and even then, 1/3rd of your roster is minimum level players.

So no depth, no 2016 draft pick. How is that this great situation that is better than Boston with like 9 1st rounders over the next 3 seasons?

LanceUpperCut
01-12-2015, 02:01 PM
So do the Knicks. And the Knicks have Carmelo Anthony. And the Knicks will have a top 3 pick in the draft. It's not even close when comparing Celtics and Knicks futures right now. Sixers are the only team of the 4 that could "Return to Glory" more impressively.

Bostons in a much better position, they have a nice young group with a **** load of picks and money the Knicks have money and Melo. It's about building a complete roster not just blow your load on a big star and still have tons of holes.

CELTICS4LYFE
01-12-2015, 02:14 PM
Somebody wants Pressey??!!! Lol

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-12-2015, 02:58 PM
Per 36, Olynyk averages 16.5 points, 8 rebounds on 51% shooting and 35% shooting from 3 as a 7 footer.

I think your rebounding expectations for a 7' stretch forward are unrealistic.

He's a player.

Additionally, You bring up Rondo and Green being traded affecting Olynyk, but he's still in limited minutes because Boston has Sullinger, Bass, Zeller, Crowder, and until last game Jeff Green on the roster. It's not like they can just hand him the keys and bone everyone else. The Celtics are trying to develop multiple players at once.

Still, you bringing Pressey into this conversation is absolutely silly. He's nothing. Sullinger and Olynyk are fringe starters on good teams as of right now, with pretty decent ceilings moving forward.

Per 36 is a so so stat for judging players. I could say first game back Kenyon Martin is league MVP then KMart's per 36: 27/9/4.5bpg. Yet KMart is just a ten day contract bench warmer. Celtic fans no need to get all defensive. But all them picks are up in the air. Every draft is a crap shoot. Is all but who selects what and who knows more as in scouting. Also all depends on even if you get the guy you want and even if the kid even pans out. So many if's. Funny how all these teams fans come crying in here after a few laughing snarks about their rosters future draft picks. Get all defensive. As a Bucks fan wouldn't want to be in any of your shoes. Been down that putrid draft selection back late 80's. Took forever to get a building block in Vin Baker then a few more losing season then Glenn Robinson. Then another losing year then a draft night trade of Marbury for Ray Allen.

Corey
01-12-2015, 03:11 PM
Per 36 is a so so stat for judging players. I could say first game back Kenyon Martin is league MVP then KMart's per 36: 27/9/4.5bpg. Yet KMart is just a ten day contract bench warmer. Celtic fans no need to get all defensive. But all them picks are up in the air. Every draft is a crap shoot. Is all but who selects what and who knows more as in scouting. Also all depends on even if you get the guy you want and even if the kid even pans out. So many if's. Funny how all these teams fans come crying in here after a few laughing snarks about their rosters future draft picks. Get all defensive. As a Bucks fan wouldn't want to be in any of your shoes. Been down that putrid draft selection back late 80's. Took forever to get a building block in Vin Baker then a few more losing season then Glenn Robinson. Then another losing year then a draft night trade of Marbury for Ray Allen.

So per36 is a crummy way to assume metrics because you're comparing it to a ten day contract that doesn't play big minutes to a 6th man that plays big minutes fairly consistently? Interesting way to write off a metric.

If you actually watched a lot of Boston, which I dont particularly expect based on your comments on Pressey, you'd say that it's probably not too farfetched to assume he can average 17/8 on a full time workload on this team.

The funnies part of this? You thought Pressey was a decent prospect because he started ONE game agains the Bucks last year and put up 13 points on good shooting percentages....Yet you're calling Olynyk's per36 a 'so so' stat. One game sample size is a better way to look at a player's development?

You might not want to be in the Celtics position, but if Jabari Parker isn't the next superstar I wouldn't want to be in Milwaukees either. Bright future, but likely stuck in the middle of a crappy conference with no hope of a title and mid level draft slots each year.

But hey, it's sports and there's no point in watching if you aren't optimist about your team in the present and future, so good luck to both organizations.


Somebody wants Pressey??!!! Lol
:laugh2: agreed.

KnicksorBust
01-12-2015, 03:43 PM
So do the Knicks. And the Knicks have Carmelo Anthony. And the Knicks will have a top 3 pick in the draft. It's not even close when comparing Celtics and Knicks futures right now. Sixers are the only team of the 4 that could "Return to Glory" more impressively.

No you don't. 1 yes. 2 no. Said this to you in the other thread, but like the Knick forum, you guys act like there is no such thing as a salary cap.

After the draft, you'll have 38 committed to like 6 guys. That leaves roughly 28 million for at minimum 6 players. If 4 of those guys are minimum players, that leaves 26 mill at most for 2 guys, and even then, 1/3rd of your roster is minimum level players.

So no depth, no 2016 draft pick. How is that this great situation that is better than Boston with like 9 1st rounders over the next 3 seasons?

Something that we don't move Calderone which appears to be very likely in the ads about 7 million. Also the idea that a rebuilding team should be sweating death is a little bit like putting the cart before the horse. How did lack of depth affect the kg Ray Allen Paul Pierce Celtics? How did lack of depth affect the LeBron Wade Bosh heat? It's not a concern. Also you are over valuing late round picks. Rather have LeBron James or the entire middle of the first round? To me that's a no brainer. And I'm being generous putting them all in the middle of the first round when we know most of them are protected beyond that

KnicksorBust
01-12-2015, 03:45 PM
So do the Knicks. And the Knicks have Carmelo Anthony. And the Knicks will have a top 3 pick in the draft. It's not even close when comparing Celtics and Knicks futures right now. Sixers are the only team of the 4 that could "Return to Glory" more impressively.

Bostons in a much better position, they have a nice young group with a **** load of picks and money the Knicks have money and Melo. It's about building a complete roster not just blow your load on a big star and still have tons of holes.

Respectfully I disagree with you about their young group. Embiid Michael Carter Williams and Noelle is a nice young group.

LAKERS4LIFE!!
01-12-2015, 04:16 PM
Lakers are the worst sadly, they won't make any noise until 2016 where they will basically be able to sign 3 max contracts if they don't sign any large multi-year contracts next summer. I'm just hoping they get to pick their Top 5 pick this year.

Philadelphia has the nicest young core and if they add someone like Stanley Johnson in the draft, they'll start rounding out a very nice core. They will most likely suck again next year so that's basically another Top 5 pick so their future will look very bright.

Boston has a few nice players but they're smart since Danny Ainge doesn't mind going full tank mode and has no shame in it(unlike the Lakers sadly) so they should be in good shape since we all know he's capable of making a championship contender quickly.

Knicks have Melo, a lot of cap space, and a Top 3 pick next year so they're definitely in the best position. Sadly though unless they find someone else besides Melo to be the leader of that team, I don't see them winning it all.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-12-2015, 04:22 PM
Something that we don't move Calderone which appears to be very likely in the ads about 7 million. Also the idea that a rebuilding team should be sweating death is a little bit like putting the cart before the horse. How did lack of depth affect the kg Ray Allen Paul Pierce Celtics? How did lack of depth affect the LeBron Wade Bosh heat? It's not a concern. Also you are over valuing late round picks. Rather have LeBron James or the entire middle of the first round? To me that's a no brainer. And I'm being generous putting them all in the middle of the first round when we know most of them are protected beyond that

Move Calderon 1st. Until then it's just a wish.

As for the rest, the Celtics had tons of assets (like they do now) to trade for both KG and Ray. You act like putting together the 2007 Celtics or 2010 Heat is just a normal thing and easy to do. What rebuilding team that would want your pick this year has an All-Star to give you for it? I'll wait for any realistic players.

And are you really comparing Melo, Player A in FA (At best Gasol, but unlikely), and Player B in FA (on basically mid-level contract like maybe Wes Matthews) to James, Bosh, and Wade, and to KG, Allen, Pierce? Pass what you are smoking. There is nobody in this years crop of FA's who touch what Wade, Bosh, and LBJ were in 2010, nor what KG was in 2007 which is SuperStar level players.

Goose17
01-12-2015, 05:24 PM
Knicks will take the longest... IF they refuse to trade Melo.

Melo is the only valuable asset they have left. They don't have a stockpile of draft picks like Boston or Philly, they don't have any young players with high potential aside from maybe Hardaway JR. Melo is flip flopping between playing and sitting. The Knicks need to commit, this one foot in, one foot out just won't work. They should trade Melo for young talent and draft picks (much like Denver did with Melo back in the day) and they should tank for that first overall like it's the 1984 draft. OR they should sit Melo and tank then hope for the best.

Yes they are in a city that is a good free agent destination but the team itself is not a good free agent destination. Knicks fans really believe Marc Gasol will leave a contender in the West that is improving every day for a lotto team in the East? They believe Chicago won't match any offer Butler is made? They believe Aldridge is going to abandon a contender in the West for a lotto team in the East? The only superstar free agents this year are restricted and/or currently playing for a contender. A legit contender. They are NOT leaving.

At best, they get a guy like Dragic or Reggie Jackson (I think the latter might happen, he was tight with Fisher in OKC and would like being the BETA dog to Melo instead of third or fourth string in OKC).

But that's not enough to make the Knicks a playoff threat never mind a championship threat.

abe_froman
01-12-2015, 05:38 PM
i'd say sixers or boston.

lakers have too much work to do and not enough upcoming picks/young talent to fill those needs;ny is,as always,banking way to heavily on the fantasy of some free agent superstars to flock there to play "savior"(what do they say about trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...);sixers have been building on the most solid foundation(tank for high picks),its really up to how the kids develop;boston has some young talent and a ton of picks and have been known to pull off surprising trades(i'm kind of banking on rep here).

Munkeysuit
01-12-2015, 05:57 PM
With all their draft picks lined up man...Boston will be something in the coming years.

SeoulBeatz
01-12-2015, 06:40 PM
A lot of Philly's success depends on the development of Embiid.

Currently we have some nice pieces.

Joel Embiid (20), Nerlens Noel (20), MCW (23), KJ McDaniels (21), Tony Wroten (21), Robert Covington (24), Jeremi Grant (20), Jakarr Sampson (21)

Those are the pieces. We have no potential allstars on the roster besides Joel Embiid (though Noel should contend for DPOY at this rate in the future) so a lot's riding on him atm.

Luckily, we have 2 first rounders and 5 seconds in this years draft + most cap space in the league and Dario Saric possibly coming over next season.

Our roster could look like:

Carter-Williams/ Tony Wroten/ Pierre Jackson
K.J McDaniels/ Robert Covington
Stanley Johnson (draft)/ Kelly Oubre (draft)/ Jeremi Grant
Nerlens Noel/ Dario Saric
Joel Embiid/ Henry Sims

+ A slew of 2nds and whatever vets we choose to sign with our significant amount of cap space.

People kept hating on the Sixers earlier in the season without seeing the big picture. 2 years of futility to obtain a roster full of depth and youth without overspending on pieces that wouldn't allow us to contend or would be out of their prime before that point.

Since that 0-17 start, the sixers are 7-13. Certainly not a sparkling record but people were dubbing them the worst team of all time, while a team with a bonafide superstar like Carmelo Anthony has fallen below them in the standings.

The Sixers are starting to play better (they won 3 of 4 last week) and none of the players ever hold their heads down. They enjoy playing every game because they understand it's a rebuilding process and all of our young pieces are getting a chance to shine. Coach Brown has done a tremendous job getting his players to compete each and every night.

You should've seen the team's reaction to Saturday's win against the Pacers. They were celebrating like they just won a championship.

Just have to wait out this season to truly start seeing the pieces come together.

So to answer the OP:

Sixers
Celtics (they have a pretty damn bright future as well)
Knicks (Phil is working magic already)




Lakers (it's all Kobe's fault)

GiantsSwaGG
01-12-2015, 06:48 PM
Lakers are in the worst position with the Knicks right behind them.

Sixers are relying on a center with back problems

The celtics are in a great position and have the best shot to return to glory

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-12-2015, 06:59 PM
Boston Celtics
Los Angeles Lakers
Philadelphia 76ers
New York Knickerbockers


4 of the oldest most storied franchise in the NBA.

4 teams that will on be in competition for the lottery this season.

Who makes the return to glory first?


You already know this, mannnnnn

Celticsfan2007
01-12-2015, 07:08 PM
I'd have to give a slight edge to Philly over Boston - Just for the mere fact that they have a few high ceiling players already (MCW, Noel, Embiid) where as Boston really only has one (Smart). You could throw Klnyk in the conversation also, but I'm personally not very high on him.

NY and LAL are in tough spots, but have the edge in FA due to their larger markets so it's not completely outta the realm of possibility for either of them to make a splash in FA and turn their franchise around almost immediately.

Tony_Starks
01-12-2015, 07:46 PM
Lakers
Knicks
Pistons
Celtics















Sixers

KnicksorBust
01-12-2015, 07:47 PM
Something that we don't move Calderone which appears to be very likely in the ads about 7 million. Also the idea that a rebuilding team should be sweating death is a little bit like putting the cart before the horse. How did lack of depth affect the kg Ray Allen Paul Pierce Celtics? How did lack of depth affect the LeBron Wade Bosh heat? It's not a concern. Also you are over valuing late round picks. Rather have LeBron James or the entire middle of the first round? To me that's a no brainer. And I'm being generous putting them all in the middle of the first round when we know most of them are protected beyond that

Move Calderon 1st. Until then it's just a wish.

As for the rest, the Celtics had tons of assets (like they do now) to trade for both KG and Ray. You act like putting together the 2007 Celtics or 2010 Heat is just a normal thing and easy to do. What rebuilding team that would want your pick this year has an All-Star to give you for it? I'll wait for any realistic players.

And are you really comparing Melo, Player A in FA (At best Gasol, but unlikely), and Player B in FA (on basically mid-level contract like maybe Wes Matthews) to James, Bosh, and Wade, and to KG, Allen, Pierce? Pass what you are smoking. There is nobody in this years crop of FA's who touch what Wade, Bosh, and LBJ were in 2010, nor what KG was in 2007 which is SuperStar level players.

When did I ever say I wanted to trade the pick? Give me Okafor, Mundiay, Towns , etc and I will have a new jersey in my collection to wear for the next decade.
Name me a team with 5 good starters that cant get it done because their bench isnt good enough. There was one good example from last (lets see if you even know it) and thats about it. I just completely disagree with this flawed premise that you need to build depth to have a good rebuild. Again would love to hear an example of s team that found their role players first.

KnicksorBust
01-12-2015, 07:50 PM
Knicks will take the longest... IF they refuse to trade Melo.

Melo is the only valuable asset they have left. They don't have a stockpile of draft picks like Boston or Philly, they don't have any young players with high potential aside from maybe Hardaway JR. Melo is flip flopping between playing and sitting. The Knicks need to commit, this one foot in, one foot out just won't work. They should trade Melo for young talent and draft picks (much like Denver did with Melo back in the day) and they should tank for that first overall like it's the 1984 draft. OR they should sit Melo and tank then hope for the best.

Yes they are in a city that is a good free agent destination but the team itself is not a good free agent destination. Knicks fans really believe Marc Gasol will leave a contender in the West that is improving every day for a lotto team in the East? They believe Chicago won't match any offer Butler is made? They believe Aldridge is going to abandon a contender in the West for a lotto team in the East? The only superstar free agents this year are restricted and/or currently playing for a contender. A legit contender. They are NOT leaving.

At best, they get a guy like Dragic or Reggie Jackson (I think the latter might happen, he was tight with Fisher in OKC and would like being the BETA dog to Melo instead of third or fourth string in OKC).

But that's not enough to make the Knicks a playoff threat never mind a championship threat.

Lol. They are the only team that already has a top 15 player. They are projected to get the best lottery pick of all the teams. And they have incredible roster flexibility. How could that possibly be the worst rebuild? Bc you assume Phil Jackson (the greatest winner in professional basketball history) will suddenly be a fool and overpay Reggie Jackson? Is that seriously uour argument?

Jamiecballer
01-12-2015, 08:32 PM
Lol. They are the only team that already has a top 15 player. They are projected to get the best lottery pick of all the teams. And they have incredible roster flexibility. How could that possibly be the worst rebuild? Bc you assume Phil Jackson (the greatest winner in professional basketball history) will suddenly be a fool and overpay Reggie Jackson? Is that seriously uour argument?
This isn't 2008 anymore, Melo is not a top 15 player. Some would say never was

Ariza's Better
01-12-2015, 08:39 PM
Celtics
76ers

















Lakers and knicks

This isn't 2008 anymore, Melo is not a top 15 player. Some would say never was
Those some are morons.

KnicksorBust
01-12-2015, 08:47 PM
Lol. They are the only team that already has a top 15 player. They are projected to get the best lottery pick of all the teams. And they have incredible roster flexibility. How could that possibly be the worst rebuild? Bc you assume Phil Jackson (the greatest winner in professional basketball history) will suddenly be a fool and overpay Reggie Jackson? Is that seriously uour argument?
This isn't 2008 anymore, Melo is not a top 15 player. Some would say never was

Two seasons ago he was 3rd in MVP voting. Hard to take you seriously.

Jamiecballer
01-12-2015, 08:54 PM
Two seasons ago he was 3rd in MVP voting. Hard to take you seriously.
How many votes this year do you think?

CELTICS4LYFE
01-12-2015, 08:57 PM
Sixers have 5 2nd round pics? Don't the Celtics own the sixers 2nd rounder this year?

SeoulBeatz
01-12-2015, 09:03 PM
Sixers have 5 2nd round pics? Don't the Celtics own the sixers 2nd rounder this year?

http://www.nbadraft.net/2015mock_draft

I think you get our 2nd next year

Corey
01-12-2015, 09:09 PM
Two seasons ago he was 3rd in MVP voting. Hard to take you seriously.

I think MVP voting is a dumb way to argue that a player is good, but you're still right.

Melo is widely considered a top 3 player in terms of scoring ability and he's probably still in the top 15 overall, but I understand why people try argue him outside of the top 15 these days because of the state of his team.

That being said, he's a good player. I'd take him on the right team. If other NBA players hold Melo in high regard, the rebuild should be quick and easy for the Knicks. Especially in the East.

Corey
01-12-2015, 09:15 PM
http://www.nbadraft.net/2015mock_draft

I think you get our 2nd next year

We have the power two swap places with you in the second round in 2015, and we own your 1st and 2nd rounder in 2016.

We have the right to swap 1st's in 2017, and we own your 2018 unprotected first rounder.

KnicksorBust
01-12-2015, 09:33 PM
Two seasons ago he was 3rd in MVP voting. Hard to take you seriously.
How many votes this year do you think?

Yawn. Let me know when you want to continue this discussion.

KnicksorBust
01-12-2015, 09:43 PM
Two seasons ago he was 3rd in MVP voting. Hard to take you seriously.

I think MVP voting is a dumb way to argue that a player is good, but you're still right.

Melo is widely considered a top 3 player in terms of scoring ability and he's probably still in the top 15 overall, but I understand why people try argue him outside of the top 15 these days because of the state of his team.

That being said, he's a good player. I'd take him on the right team. If other NBA players hold Melo in high regard, the rebuild should be quick and easy for the Knicks. Especially in the East.

That is one of the most astute posts I have ever read. That last sentence specifically is brilliant because it made me question our situation for the first time. If the players that I covet for the Knicks (such as Monroe, Goran Dragic, Wes Matthews, etc.) see Melo as a past his prime ball hog then that could seriously hamper our FA plans. It is a fair point. That is where Phil Jackson has to earn his contract. His ability to sell FAs will make or break this rebuilding plan and I am on the record saying I trust his instincts to create a winning team. The fact that some people see that as a leap of faith just because he has never been a GM surprises me to this day.

Jamiecballer
01-12-2015, 10:05 PM
I think MVP voting is a dumb way to argue that a player is good, but you're still right.

Melo is widely considered a top 3 player in terms of scoring ability and he's probably still in the top 15 overall, but I understand why people try argue him outside of the top 15 these days because of the state of his team.

That being said, he's a good player. I'd take him on the right team. If other NBA players hold Melo in high regard, the rebuild should be quick and easy for the Knicks. Especially in the East.
I'd take him too if he was the third best player on my team and I had a smart restrained PG to manage his touches. He's basically the basketball equivalent of Phil Kessel for any hockey fans out there.

Jamiecballer
01-12-2015, 10:07 PM
Yawn. Let me know when you want to continue this discussion.
I don't think I need to. The current state of the Knicks confirms what many have always said - Melo is a good player but he was credited way too much for why that Knicks team won 54 games. Which is why mentioning that joke of an MVP vote was sort of pointless.

LakersIn5
01-12-2015, 10:13 PM
Based on history. Lakers will return to glory firsy

nycericanguy
01-12-2015, 10:37 PM
i always find the arguments against Melo kinda funny. He's not a top 15 player now because he's hurt and NY has been bad the past 2 seasons?

How about first 3 years in NY when NY won almost 60% of their games during that stretch despite never having a #2 option? How about his 10 years in DEN where they went to playoffs every year and won 60% of their games?

What have you done for me lately I suppose?

Yet no one questions Lebron who's playing with Love, Irving, and Varejo before he got hurt and still his team is sitting at .500. He gets a pass of course.

Give Melo even ONE of Love or Irving and things would be much different.

Melo has been one of the more unfortunate stars in this league in that he's never had anywhere near the star players near him like Lebron, Wade, CP3, Durant, Harden, Westbrook, etc... have. But yet his career winning % is right up there and actually above most of those guys.

I get that Melo isn't the most likeable star... but sometimes the agenda and bias against him is just so obvious.

I would genuinely like to see Melo play with ONE legit star in his prime and a decent team around him.

Jamiecballer
01-12-2015, 11:06 PM
i always find the arguments against Melo kinda funny. He's not a top 15 player now because he's hurt and NY has been bad the past 2 seasons?

How about first 3 years in NY when NY won almost 60% of their games during that stretch despite never having a #2 option? How about his 10 years in DEN where they went to playoffs every year and won 60% of their games?

What have you done for me lately I suppose?

Yet no one questions Lebron who's playing with Love, Irving, and Varejo before he got hurt and still his team is sitting at .500. He gets a pass of course.

Give Melo even ONE of Love or Irving and things would be much different.

Melo has been one of the more unfortunate stars in this league in that he's never had anywhere near the star players near him like Lebron, Wade, CP3, Durant, Harden, Westbrook, etc... have. But yet his career winning % is right up there and actually above most of those guys.

I get that Melo isn't the most likeable star... but sometimes the agenda and bias against him is just so obvious.

I would genuinely like to see Melo play with ONE legit star in his prime and a decent team around him.
Where was Chandler playing those 2 years? IMO Melo's game is way too inflexible to be considered top 15. If a team has to be tailored to your game that says plenty. He's one of the best scorers, no doubt.

nycericanguy
01-12-2015, 11:34 PM
Put Melo on HOU in place of Harden... with Howard, Ariza, Montujunes, Beverly, Brewer, Jones...etc...

You telling me that team still doesn't have a great record?

Yet Harden is a top 3-5 player because he has all that help and Melo isn't a star because he doesnt?...lol.

Anyway this thread is going off topic my bad,

Ariza's Better
01-13-2015, 12:39 AM
Put Melo on HOU in place of Harden... with Howard, Ariza, Montujunes, Beverly, Brewer, Jones...etc...

You telling me that team still doesn't have a great record?

Yet Harden is a top 3-5 player because he has all that help and Melo isn't a star because he doesnt?...lol.

Anyway this thread is going off topic my bad,
Bevs, jones and howard have been injured a lot this season and brewer has been on this team not even a month. So hasn't had all that help to get the rockets to their great record. So your point is useless.

Goose17
01-13-2015, 05:07 AM
Lol. They are the only team that already has a top 15 player. They are projected to get the best lottery pick of all the teams. And they have incredible roster flexibility. How could that possibly be the worst rebuild? Bc you assume Phil Jackson (the greatest winner in professional basketball history) will suddenly be a fool and overpay Reggie Jackson? Is that seriously uour argument?


They have a top 15 scorer not a top 15 player. They have a guy who can't win games and can't decide if he wants to sit out or not, that's not attractive to free agents. He isn't getting any younger either.

And projections mean nothing. In fact I will wager that the team with the best odds of the #1 overall pick don't actually get it. Historically they rarely do. Look at recent years for example. And if they don't go full blown tank mode they stand no chance of that top pick, at all. What I'm saying is they're half in and half out. That isn't good enough. They need to commit. Either they're trying to make the playoffs or they're tanking. They need to decide. Right now.

I didn't say they would overpay Reggie. In fact I think he is the best free agent you could get.

I'm saying you're not getting another superstar. None of the elite FAs are leaving their current team. None.

I'm saying you have no trade bait to bring in another superstar. You have no assets at all aside from Melo.

I'm saying the best thing to do, in my opinion. Is trade Melo they should have done this a while back. Trade him, get young guys with lots of potential and a horde of picks. Rebuild over the next 3-4 years. In fact, in the east you could do it within two years.

The Knicks suck. It's that simple. And building around Melo without any decent trade assets, without multiple draft picks, without any "superstars" from sub .500 teams going into free agency. It's not happening.

Guys the caliber of Reggie and maybe Dragic is your best case scenario if you keep Melo. But that depends on what they value as individuals, the location, money or playing in the playoffs.

TylerSL
01-13-2015, 05:57 AM
None of these 4 teams are relatively close to competing, but I think they all probably can be in 3-4 years.

Philadelphia 76ers
This should be the last year the Philadelphia 76ers look to lose. Assuming they get one of Emmanuel Mudiay, Justise Winslow, or Stanley Johnson they will have a great young core of Joel Embiid, Nerlens Noel, Michael Carter-Williams, and one of those 3 mentioned before. Next year with all of them on the court together I still don't see them winning a lot of games, and they will probably be back in the lottery after the 2015-2016 season. However I think we will see a noticeable change in the 2016-2017 76ers, and by 2017-2018 they could be something special to watch.

New York Knicks
The New York Knicks right now are a travesty, an embarrassment to not only the city of New York, but to the NBA itself. They need to figure out what kind of basketball they want to play before any collection of players can help anything. I'm still not seeing a triangle offense. Getting Jahill Okafor #1 overall would help but they need to actually get a system in place before they can make the improvements needed. Best case scenario IMO, they make the playoffs in 2015-2016 after implementing a system and Phil convinces somebody to come to New York to play with what would be Carmelo Anthony and Jahill Okafor. But I cannot see them being legitimate contenders before the 2016-2017 season because I think they would need to bring in probably another star player in 2016 as well.

Los Angeles Lakers
The Los Angeles Lakers are in the same boat as the New York Knicks. Assuming they get one of Willie Cauley-Stein, Myles Turner, or even Karl Anthony-Towns if he is still on the board they will go into next season with a core of Kobe Bryant, Julius Randle, and one of the 3 mentioned before. If they can get a top player to sign with them in the offseason they could probably compete for a postseason spot in 2015-2016, but again the Lakers probably cannot truly compete until at least 2016-2017 because (again, like the Knicks) they would probably need to sign another top star in 2016. And assuming Kobe retires after the 15-16 season (because he just might) they may need to get 2 guys in 2016.

Boston Celtics
The Boston Celtics need a franchise player before they can truly compete again. If they grab Trey Lyles or Kevon Looney, basically another quality player, they could improve. However assuming they do not bring any significant free agent to Boston in 2015 they probably would still miss the postseason and find themselves in the lottery again in 2016. However best case scenario they convince a top player to lead this young team after the 2015-2016 season and get back to the postseason in 2016-2017. After some experience of playing together they could legitimately be contenders again in 2017-2018.

These are all best case scenarios and these teams need a lot of work.

CELTICS4LYFE
01-13-2015, 08:38 AM
Question....why does everyone keep talking about Phil in NY and the triangle etc. He's the GM not the coach. Or is Fisher just his puppet?

2-ONE-5
01-13-2015, 10:07 AM
fisher is his puppet, we all knew that from the start.

nycericanguy
01-13-2015, 10:30 AM
Bevs, jones and howard have been injured a lot this season and brewer has been on this team not even a month. So hasn't had all that help to get the rockets to their great record. So your point is useless.

Howard & Bev have played in 75% of HOU's games stop it... every team has injuries. they have a ton of talent around Harden that play their roles, how was my point useless? Seems you;re just picking an internet fight...

bcgh
01-13-2015, 11:10 AM
What star for late picks? Unless Celtics win lottery then pick a player and trade it but for who? Harden trade was like once in a life time star traded. http://ehealthca.com/hu12uk1.jpg http://ehealthca.com/ipad/images/123.gif

Chronz
01-13-2015, 11:16 AM
That is one of the most astute posts I have ever read. That last sentence specifically is brilliant because it made me question our situation for the first time. If the players that I covet for the Knicks (such as Monroe, Goran Dragic, Wes Matthews, etc.) see Melo as a past his prime ball hog then that could seriously hamper our FA plans. It is a fair point. That is where Phil Jackson has to earn his contract. His ability to sell FAs will make or break this rebuilding plan and I am on the record saying I trust his instincts to create a winning team. The fact that some people see that as a leap of faith just because he has never been a GM surprises me to this day.

Its not because hes never been a GM, its because many of his recommendations to his actual GM have been horrendous over the years.

FraziersKnicks
01-13-2015, 11:53 AM
Teams like Boston and Philly aren't gonna make any noise until they turn some of these assets into some experience and quality.

Philly keep throwing seasons away, Noel seems solid but his offensive game is beyond raw. 44 TS% for a big man? I think his ceiling is Marcus Camby esque and that's best best case scenario. Jury is still out on Embiid of course. MCW puts up some of the emptiest stats I've ever seen, never have I been less impressed with someone who averages 16/6/6. Dude is as inefficient as it gets. This years draft pick will be nice but they've got to turn the corner soon. There's only so long you can keep stockpiling these assets before you get logjams and these players can't develop the way they're meant to.

There's got to be a point where the front office have to spend some money. With the losing culture they've created is anyone gonna wanna sign there?

Same with Boston to an extent but I think they'll entice free agents more. They lack the high draft picks though, all these late first rounders look nice but it's a lottery that they'll amount to anything.

The Lakers are a cluster **** with Kobe's contract. They might lose their first rounder this year and in terms of young talent only have Julius Randle. Their return to prominence will be through FA, so it could be a quicker turnaround than some expect. I bet Kobe's pissed how his career is just gonna fizzle out. Will be interesting to see if the Lakers go after some mid level free agents this summer to have one last hurrah pushing for the playoffs with Kobe. It's probably worth them shooting for a high draft pick next year and just let Kobe gun for some scoring records. The West is just too deep for them.

The Knicks are in the best situation to turn it around quickly. A top 15 player in the league (top 10 when healthy), a top 3 pick in a 4 player draft (Okafor, Mudiay, Towns, Johnson) and $30m in cap room. If any other team were in their situation people would be raving about it but because it's the Knicks people like to talk ****.

The Knicks will absolutely be the first out of these four teams to return to the playoffs.

KnicksorBust
01-13-2015, 11:57 AM
They have a top 15 scorer not a top 15 player. They have a guy who can't win games and can't decide if he wants to sit out or not, that's not attractive to free agents. He isn't getting any younger either.

They have a top 5 scorer and a top 15 player but there's no changing either of our minds on that issue.


And projections mean nothing. In fact I will wager that the team with the best odds of the #1 overall pick don't actually get it. Historically they rarely do.

No kidding. They only have a 25% of getting it. Re-read what I wrote. They are projected to get the best pick of these teams (Knicks-Sixers-Lakers-Celtics) which is true and has a very good probability of happening. There are 3-4 legitimate star players in this draft and the Knicks have great odds of acquiring one of those players.


Look at recent years for example. And if they don't go full blown tank mode they stand no chance of that top pick, at all. What I'm saying is they're half in and half out. That isn't good enough. They need to commit. Either they're trying to make the playoffs or they're tanking. They need to decide. Right now.

I think it's pretty clear which way they decided we just need to keep Melo off the floor.


I didn't say they would overpay Reggie. In fact I think he is the best free agent you could get.

Weren't you the one who also thought Klay Thompson might lead the league in scoring? If Reggie Jackson is the best FA the Knicks sign then I will be the first person in here to say they blew it in FA, I just happen to disagree that will be the case with so many talented players out there and the Knicks with an abundance of cap space.


I'm saying you're not getting another superstar. None of the elite FAs are leaving their current team. None.

We probably disagree on how many superstars there are in the league. To me at this point I would only call LeBron, Durant, and Steph Curry as superstars with guys like Harden, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis right there. So no, we aren't getting them. In regards to none of the "elite FAs" leaving that's your opinion. We will have to wait and see.


I'm saying you have no trade bait to bring in another superstar. You have no assets at all aside from Melo.

I don't believe we need to acquire a "superstar" to compete for the Eastern Conference. If you put Melo with a top 3 draft pick (like Mundiay or Towns) and potential all-star FAs like Goran Dragic and Greg Monroe then they will be a 50 win team.


I'm saying the best thing to do, in my opinion. Is trade Melo they should have done this a while back. Trade him, get young guys with lots of potential and a horde of picks. Rebuild over the next 3-4 years. In fact, in the east you could do it within two years.

What picks can we get that would be as good as Melo? Honestly, I would love to know what team can offer us a pick.

Sidenote: And this is not aimed at you but there needs to be a draft pick education thread because people don't seem to realize that picks outside of the top 6 rarely produce stars.


The Knicks suck. It's that simple. And building around Melo without any decent trade assets, without multiple draft picks, without any "superstars" from sub .500 teams going into free agency. It's not happening. Guys the caliber of Reggie and maybe Dragic is your best case scenario if you keep Melo. But that depends on what they value as individuals, the location, money or playing in the playoffs.

What superstar do the Hawks have? What superstar do the Raptors have? They seem to be doing fine.

KnicksorBust
01-13-2015, 07:02 PM
Teams like Boston and Philly aren't gonna make any noise until they turn some of these assets into some experience and quality.

Philly keep throwing seasons away, Noel seems solid but his offensive game is beyond raw. 44 TS% for a big man? I think his ceiling is Marcus Camby esque and that's best best case scenario. Jury is still out on Embiid of course. MCW puts up some of the emptiest stats I've ever seen, never have I been less impressed with someone who averages 16/6/6. Dude is as inefficient as it gets. This years draft pick will be nice but they've got to turn the corner soon. There's only so long you can keep stockpiling these assets before you get logjams and these players can't develop the way they're meant to.

There's got to be a point where the front office have to spend some money. With the losing culture they've created is anyone gonna wanna sign there?

Same with Boston to an extent but I think they'll entice free agents more. They lack the high draft picks though, all these late first rounders look nice but it's a lottery that they'll amount to anything.

The Lakers are a cluster **** with Kobe's contract. They might lose their first rounder this year and in terms of young talent only have Julius Randle. Their return to prominence will be through FA, so it could be a quicker turnaround than some expect. I bet Kobe's pissed how his career is just gonna fizzle out. Will be interesting to see if the Lakers go after some mid level free agents this summer to have one last hurrah pushing for the playoffs with Kobe. It's probably worth them shooting for a high draft pick next year and just let Kobe gun for some scoring records. The West is just too deep for them.

The Knicks are in the best situation to turn it around quickly. A top 15 player in the league (top 10 when healthy), a top 3 pick in a 4 player draft (Okafor, Mudiay, Towns, Johnson) and $30m in cap room. If any other team were in their situation people would be raving about it but because it's the Knicks people like to talk ****.

The Knicks will absolutely be the first out of these four teams to return to the playoffs.

Great post. I find it hard to believe that people would say the team with the best player, best draft pick, and a ton of cap space is anything but the best situation.

2-ONE-5
01-14-2015, 12:45 PM
you dont have the best draft pick, you dont have more cash than the Sixer or Celtics and in 2-3 years you wont even have the best player.

FraziersKnicks
01-14-2015, 01:17 PM
you dont have the best draft pick, you dont have more cash than the Sixer or Celtics and in 2-3 years you wont even have the best player.

1. We have the best chance of getting the best pick, so as far as that goes, yes... we do.

2. We have more money than the Celtics and who wants to sign for the Sixers :laugh2:

3. A completely moot point since you have no idea who will be on the three teams rosters in 2-3 years. In terms of judging the current rosters (which is actually possible), yes... we do.

2-ONE-5
01-14-2015, 01:50 PM
1. the season isnt even half way over and the worst record has 75% chance of not getting the top pick, but keep penciling it in.

2. Who wants to sign with Knicks?

3. Melo is reaching the end of his prime, if NY tries to make a big FA spalsh it will be no different than what happend to the Nets in the end.

2-ONE-5
01-14-2015, 01:51 PM
1. the season isnt even half way over and the worst record has 75% chance of not getting the top pick, but keep penciling it in.

2. Who wants to sign with the Knicks?

3. Melo is reaching the end of his prime, if NY tries to make a big FA spalsh it will be no different than what happend to the Nets in the end.

FraziersKnicks
01-14-2015, 02:51 PM
1. the season isnt even half way over and the worst record has 75% chance of not getting the top pick, but keep penciling it in.

2. Who wants to sign with Knicks?

3. Melo is reaching the end of his prime, if NY tries to make a big FA spalsh it will be no different than what happend to the Nets in the end.

I said we have the best chance of getting the top pick... Which we do. As it stands the Knicks have a higher chance of the top pick than the Sixers and the Celtics. That's fact.

Theoretical situation:

Player A is offered a 4 year, $50m contract by both the Knicks and the Sixers. One team has an established star and plays in one of the most desirable big markets in the league and the other has a young core of players that have done nothing but lose. Hmmm... I wonder where he will be more inclined to play.

Who did the Nets sign? Last time I checked they auctioned their future for a bunch of washed up former all-stars and lost all their draft picks. Their situations are entirely different.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-14-2015, 03:07 PM
I said we have the best chance of getting the top pick... Which we do. As it stands the Knicks have a higher chance of the top pick than the Sixers and the Celtics. That's fact.

Theoretical situation:

Player A is offered a 4 year, $50m contract by both the Knicks and the Sixers. One team has an established star and plays in one of the most desirable big markets in the league and the other has a young core of players that have done nothing but lose. Hmmm... I wonder where he will be more inclined to play.

Who did the Nets sign? Last time I checked they auctioned their future for a bunch of washed up former all-stars and lost all their draft picks. Their situations are entirely different.

Depends.

If I'm a player in the twilight of my career with not much time left, I'll choose the Knicks (but then again, most might not even consider a team coming off a likely 15ish win season if that is the case, but in this situation it's only between NY and PHI).

If I'm a player that has yet to enter his prime or just entering it, and is looking to grow into a continuous contender with a team throughout my prime years, I'll very happily go play with Embiid, Noel, MCW, etc.

This is all assuming $$ being offered and length of contract is identical as you stated.

2-ONE-5
01-14-2015, 03:41 PM
^ good work, saved me some time.

FraziersKnicks
01-14-2015, 04:16 PM
^ good work, saved me some time.


So by agreeing with his post you're accepting the Knicks are in a better position to return to glory sooner I assume?

2-ONE-5
01-14-2015, 04:24 PM
you do realize that over the last 10 years the Sixers have more wins, playoff apperacnes/wins than the Knicks right? The Knicks are the most overrated franchise in all of sports and since when does adding hypothetical vet FA's equal a return to glory?

FraziersKnicks
01-14-2015, 04:52 PM
you do realize that over the last 10 years the Sixers have more wins, playoff apperacnes/wins than the Knicks right? The Knicks are the most overrated franchise in all of sports and since when does adding hypothetical vet FA's equal a return to glory?

You do realise history has absolutely nothing to do with what we're discussing. We are talking about the future. Which team will return to glory first.

You think the Sixers will make the playoffs before the Knicks?

85BearsDefense
01-14-2015, 04:55 PM
Lakers are clearly the worst with cap killing Kobe and no elite talent.
Celtics are 3rd with no franchise player and very little chance of getting a top 3 pick in this year's draft.
Sixers are 2nd with a legitimate high upside player in Embiid and two talented young players MCW and Noel.
Knicks are comfortably 1st with a franchise player in place, a virtual lock at a top 3 pick, and tons of cap space in the absolute perfect summer to max players out.

The most absurd argument I've heard is that the Knicks might "overpay" for non-max players. My counter would be that in this market you can't overpay a FA in this market (ex: Greg Monroe/Goran Dragic). Even if you max them both out, when the new cap jumps $25-$30 million in the next 2 seasons they will look like good buys. There has never been a better season to have cap space.

Holy homer

85BearsDefense
01-14-2015, 05:01 PM
First of all I see people saying Kobes contract is bad (which it is) but how about Melos. Lol. You're clearly rebuilding and now you're rebuilding with an aging star... Not smart. Not to mention you think you'll land a top FA? Cmon. Why in gods name would Marc Gasol who was raised in Memphis leave a contender for the worst team in the NBA? Please. As long as the Knicks have Melo they will NEVER win anything.

2-ONE-5
01-14-2015, 05:14 PM
You do realise history has absolutely nothing to do with what we're discussing. We are talking about the future. Which team will return to glory first.

You think the Sixers will make the playoffs before the Knicks?

i have no idea. i dont know what the knicks are going to do but i will say if you dont make it next season then you wont be beating us to the playoffs.

DillyDill
01-14-2015, 05:32 PM
Kobe contract isnt bad. I'll take 2 more years to watch a legend

2-ONE-5
01-14-2015, 05:42 PM
wouldnt you rather compete for a playoff spot instead of watching Kobe chuck 35 shots a game and play with guys he hates?

numba1CHANGsta
01-14-2015, 06:21 PM
How about this question, which one of those 4 will win the championship first? im pretty sure it will be the Lakers

85BearsDefense
01-14-2015, 06:23 PM
How about this question, which one of those 4 will win the championship first? im pretty sure it will be the Lakers

Lmao based off of?

KnicksorBust
01-14-2015, 09:09 PM
First of all I see people saying Kobes contract is bad (which it is) but how about Melos. Lol. You're clearly rebuilding and now you're rebuilding with an aging star... Not smart. Not to mention you think you'll land a top FA? Cmon. Why in gods name would Marc Gasol who was raised in Memphis leave a contender for the worst team in the NBA? Please. As long as the Knicks have Melo they will NEVER win anything.

Kobes contract is more expensive per year and he is significantly worse than Melo at this point in their careers.

Alayla
01-14-2015, 10:58 PM
i always find the arguments against Melo kinda funny. He's not a top 15 player now because he's hurt and NY has been bad the past 2 seasons?

How about first 3 years in NY when NY won almost 60% of their games during that stretch despite never having a #2 option? How about his 10 years in DEN where they went to playoffs every year and won 60% of their games?

What have you done for me lately I suppose?

Yet no one questions Lebron who's playing with Love, Irving, and Varejo before he got hurt and still his team is sitting at .500. He gets a pass of course.

Give Melo even ONE of Love or Irving and things would be much different.

Melo has been one of the more unfortunate stars in this league in that he's never had anywhere near the star players near him like Lebron, Wade, CP3, Durant, Harden, Westbrook, etc... have. But yet his career winning % is right up there and actually above most of those guys.

I get that Melo isn't the most likeable star... but sometimes the agenda and bias against him is just so obvious.

I would genuinely like to see Melo play with ONE legit star in his prime and a decent team around him.

He played with Allen Iverson in his best year efficiency wise he also played with Camby and Billups
as for Denvers winning % notice how things didn't get any worse for them when mello was traded..

Pierzynski4Prez
01-15-2015, 01:14 AM
Kobes contract is more expensive per year and he is significantly worse than Melo at this point in their careers.

2/48.5 or 5/125

Depends on whether you believe building around a 30 year old with a 5/125 contract as a good thing or not. But I don't think it's clear cut which is worse. Personally I don't think any team will win a title with Melo as the #1 option. So basically you have a #2 option is on a 5/125 deal in my eyes.

Melo will be 2/54 as a 33-34 year old on the Knicks in a few years. Hopefully the drop off come then isn't too bad for him.

I do agree that that right now Melo is much, much better though. But neither team is winning right now.