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View Full Version : Did you expect Miami to fall off this much?



Chronz
01-09-2015, 04:17 PM
They sit at 15-21 but they have played with the efficacy of a 12-24 team. Their defense has fallen off a cliff, and while Wade has been revving up of late, both his and Bosh's overall 2-way efficiency has plummeted. Pace and Space has come to a screeching halt.

Their defense ranks 26th but only the Lakers, Knicks and T'Wolves are clearly worse. Offensively they've been middle of the pack. They have dealt with injuries to both Bosh and Wade already but I dont think that should be entirely unexpected given the circumstances. Beyond that, looking solely at lineups with both Wade and Bosh, they've still gotten outscored on average. At best they've barely played .500 level quality ball on the floor together. Which if you look back on the Big-3 era, is pretty much the quality of ball they displayed with Bron on the bench. And I know they've lost an MVP but they didn't exactly replace him with Pete Myers, they're getting quality play from Deng. Obviously that calls for a dropoff, but this much? They're in danger of missing the playoffs in the wretched East if they dont turn things around. To go from making the Finals to missing the playoffs entirely, from the loss of a single player doesn't happen very often.






So 4 main questions.

Do the Heat deserve to have a 2nd All-Star selection (Bosh).
Do you see them making any noise in the playoffs?
Did you predict this much of a drop off?
Do you see Bosh+Wade ever regaining their efficient forms? Even Bosh in Toronto was more effective IMO. And as much as I want to say its because hes sharing the ball more with Wade, hes actually never chucked to this degree.

goingfor28
01-09-2015, 04:20 PM
Honestly, yes. When you remove the best player on the planet this is what I expected to happen.

Kashmir13579
01-09-2015, 04:24 PM
No.. I expected them and CLE to have a similar record.

spreadeagle
01-09-2015, 04:26 PM
I thought they would be pretty good, bosh is playing awesome, thats it tho

benny01
01-09-2015, 04:26 PM
1. maybe, hard to say who deserves to make the All-star game. It's kind of a stupid process, I wouldn't object.
2.no
3. yes, I think they made a mistake trying to remain competitive by signing aging free agents. I think with Wade and Bosh they could have signed guys with upside and taken their chances that they would develop faster and more effectively with that leadership.
4. Not their uber-efficient forms with Lebron. Wade will for spurts, and Bosh could again with the right help but the clocks ticking.

numba1CHANGsta
01-09-2015, 04:27 PM
Shows you how that team aint **** without LeBron did you guys really think Deng, McRoberts, Shabaz would replace LeBron? Lol

Also Ray Allen was probably the most crucial piece to the Heat's success

Vampirate
01-09-2015, 04:29 PM
That team looks like it could be in NBA purgatory for a while.

bucketss
01-09-2015, 04:30 PM
Shows you how that team aint **** without LeBron did you guys really think Deng, McRoberts, Shabaz would replace LeBron? Lol

Also Ray Allen was probably the most crucial piece to the Heat's success

well apparently miami was stacked, and none of lebrons chips count since miami was the most stacked team ever.

2-ONE-5
01-09-2015, 04:33 PM
yea this was easy to see coming. i had them as a non playoff team before the season. they lack size, athleticism, coaching, and tons more.

More-Than-Most
01-09-2015, 04:35 PM
Remember when Lebron was on the most stacked team ever???? Lebron leaves and they are this team lol... A team everyone thought that would be tops in the least... Further shows how great Lebron is

Raps18-19 Champ
01-09-2015, 04:38 PM
Do the Heat deserve to have a 2nd All-Star selection (Bosh)?

Neither should be in but they shouldn't have 2 in.

Do you see them making any noise in the playoffs?

If healthy, yes.

Did you predict this much of a drop off?

I expect them to be like 6th seed and competitive in the playoffs.

Do you see Bosh+Wade ever regaining their efficient forms?

Not like before but they'll be efficient enough.

jimm120
01-09-2015, 04:43 PM
I expected them to be a around .500 or a little bit more (like 2-4 games over .500). Technically, 40-45 wins.

Wade was breaking down. Everyone knew that. He's at the magical age of 33, in which nba player start to decline. Plus, getting injured, as expected.

Bosh is back to his great playing days. Still, he was losing in Toronto while playing great too. Still, with Wade, you expect better than how he did with Toronto (and they are).


Even if LeBron stayed, they wouldn't have been as good. Wade truly is breaking down and making things more difficult.

Crackadalic
01-09-2015, 05:03 PM
After watching their play in the pre season I had them fighting for a playoff spot.

Vampirate
01-09-2015, 05:05 PM
One of the biggest issues is they payed Bosh Superstar #1 option money when he has never been one.

D-Leethal
01-09-2015, 05:07 PM
I think its obvious for their two-way efficiency to seriously decline given the best player in the world is no longer on their team, both their loads have been increased to a level neither has had to shoulder in 5-6 years, so of course Bosh is not going to put up 25 as efficient as he puts up 16, and their defensive efficiency will all take a hit when you take their anchor off the team (yes, LeBron anchored their defense from the perimeter) but I expected them to be better than this. They don't have a whole lot after those two though so given their injuries its pretty much expected.

I would like to see what type of ball they play at the end of the year if healthy. This is a team that coasted and played uninspired ball through the mid season doldrums every year for the past 5, so that mentality still might be rooted into their heads.

Big Zo
01-09-2015, 05:47 PM
I expected them to be a around .500 or a little bit more (like 2-4 games over .500). Technically, 40-45 wins.

Wade was breaking down. Everyone knew that. He's at the magical age of 33, in which nba player start to decline. Plus, getting injured, as expected.

Bosh is back to his great playing days. Still, he was losing in Toronto while playing great too. Still, with Wade, you expect better than how he did with Toronto (and they are).


Even if LeBron stayed, they wouldn't have been as good. Wade truly is breaking down and making things more difficult.

Wade isn't who he used to be, but have you watched him this year?

Vampirate
01-09-2015, 05:49 PM
I think the problem with the Heat are they have no depth, Superstar or true #1 option anymore.

JordansBulls
01-09-2015, 05:49 PM
Some things can't be explained like Atlanta and Toronto's record over Cleveland and Miami's. Phoenix over OKC.

Big Zo
01-09-2015, 05:50 PM
That team looks like it could be in NBA purgatory for a while.

They'll reload in the summer of 2016.

Vampirate
01-09-2015, 05:54 PM
They'll reload in the summer of 2016.

And if they don't?

Big Zo
01-09-2015, 05:54 PM
And if they don't?
Pat Riley will find a way.

Bruno
01-09-2015, 05:56 PM
i am. what surprises me the most is their second half point differential.

I think they're a group of extremely satisfied, proud, successful players who don't play with any fire because they've already reached the pinnacle of success twice. I think we can look at injury, and rim protection (new guy looks interesting) for obvious reasons, but the HEAT don't have the same fire. they're content.

GiantsSwaGG
01-09-2015, 06:00 PM
Heat and the Nets will be fighting for the 8th seed

jerellh528
01-09-2015, 06:00 PM
That's what happens after 9 players leave a team that was built specifically to accommodate 1. Wade and bosh played fantastic 2nd and 3rd options, but at this point in their careers they can't carry a team anymore.

tredigs
01-09-2015, 06:04 PM
i am. what surprises me the most is their second half point differential.

I think they're a group of extremely satisfied, proud, successful players who don't play with any fire because they've already reached the pinnacle of success twice. I think we can look at injury, and rim protection (new guy looks interesting) for obvious reasons, but the HEAT don't have the same fire. they're content.
This, combined with the general fatigue of the past few years has certainly caught up to them. Look at Lebron. Even back to his hometown with all his talk of, "We play every night at full power, like it's our last!!", he has been consistently casual and showing a clear breakdown physically from his peak athletic seasons. The team went to 4 straight finals, and in Miami's case they have to know they can't contend for a title. They're older, tired, already successful and generally without fire.

That said, offensiely Wade has outperformed just about everyone's preseason expectations, Bosh has been solid (both of them having career years from behind the arc), and Deng has performed as expected as well. Where they're falling apart is in a lack of role player support on the offensive end, and a general apathy for all things defense. I was never a huge fan of watching them with Lebron, but when they ramped up their D it was a thing of beauty. That no longer exists, unfortunately. And even with Lebron (as we've seen in Cleveland), it would have been more of the same.

J_M_B
01-09-2015, 06:07 PM
It's starts with Bosh and Wade missing a combined 16 games already

McRoberts, who was projected to start, is already out for the season.

Miami has the worst point guard play in the league with Chalmers and Cole

There's no depth. There is intriguing young talent in Ennis and Napier, but neither sees the floor much.

Outside of Bosh and Wade, only Deng and now Hassan Whiteside have been bright spots.

Oh and they're a completely different team in the second half. Consisently get killed in the third quarter lol it's crazy

RLundi
01-09-2015, 06:54 PM
I thought Deng would be a solid replacement and they would still win 45-50 games. Goes to show you just how dominant LeBron was and how he masked Wade's and Bosh's shortcomings. God those two suck. Empty statistics.

tredigs
01-09-2015, 07:01 PM
I thought Deng would be a solid replacement and they would still win 45-50 games. Goes to show you just how dominant LeBron was and how he masked Wade's and Bosh's shortcomings. God those two suck. Empty statistics.

Offensively, no they don't. Defensively, sure. But so does the rest of the team. And Lebron's D has also been **** this season. Unless he brought it a HELL of a lot more than he has in Cleveland, they'd still be bottom of the barrel on that end this year. They're all worn out.

Chronz
01-09-2015, 07:01 PM
That's what happens after 9 players leave a team that was built specifically to accommodate 1. Wade and bosh played fantastic 2nd and 3rd options, but at this point in their careers they can't carry a team anymore.

At what point did you realize that they weren't capable anymore?


Some things can't be explained like Atlanta and Toronto's record over Cleveland and Miami's. Phoenix over OKC.

Green font?

1. maybe, hard to say who deserves to make the All-star game. It's kind of a stupid process, I wouldn't object.
2.no
3. yes, I think they made a mistake trying to remain competitive by signing aging free agents. I think with Wade and Bosh they could have signed guys with upside and taken their chances that they would develop faster and more effectively with that leadership.
4. Not their uber-efficient forms with Lebron. Wade will for spurts, and Bosh could again with the right help but the clocks ticking.

I think the process is pretty straightforward. You have to have the production but team wins should cap the actual amount of participants should go. It just seems odd to say this sub .500 team has 2 All-Stars, guys who are allegedly franchise players according to some.


Honestly, yes. When you remove the best player on the planet this is what I expected to happen.
Teams have lost the games best player and not fallen off a cliff.

I think its obvious for their two-way efficiency to seriously decline given the best player in the world is no longer on their team, both their loads have been increased to a level neither has had to shoulder in 5-6 years, so of course Bosh is not going to put up 25 as efficient as he puts up 16, and their defensive efficiency will all take a hit when you take their anchor off the team (yes, LeBron anchored their defense from the perimeter) but I expected them to be better than this. They don't have a whole lot after those two though so given their injuries its pretty much expected.

I would like to see what type of ball they play at the end of the year if healthy. This is a team that coasted and played uninspired ball through the mid season doldrums every year for the past 5, so that mentality still might be rooted into their heads.

So its obvious but you expected better? Sounds like we're in the same boat, I was obviously expecting some slippage, mostly on the defensive end, but I wasn't expecting a complete collapse. Watching Wade get put on a spin cycle yesterday pretty much sums up their season so far.

As far as Bosh is concerned, were you expecting an improvement upon Toronto-Bosh? Wade looks trim and has finally embraced the outside jumper, hes adapted better, if he limits his turnovers as the season progresses, he should return to form. But Bosh? Man hes disappointed me the most, hes completely abandoned crashing the offensive glass at this point.

JV35
01-09-2015, 07:02 PM
Yes. I expected it. Not surprising in the least.

Shammyguy3
01-09-2015, 07:22 PM
Do the Heat deserve to have a 2nd All-Star selection (Bosh)? Nope
Do you see them making any noise in the playoffs? Nope
Did you predict this much of a drop off? Nope
Do you see Bosh+Wade ever regaining their efficient forms? Nope

next 4 questions por favor

SportsFanatic10
01-09-2015, 07:32 PM
i don't understand the posters who say bosh is playing great, i don't see it, good yes...great no. he's disappointed me to be honest. as for wade i'd say he's been better than many predicted going into the season. considering his knees and age i think he's living up to what i expected from him this year. he deserves to be an allstar, and afterall he took an 11 million pay cut and bosh ate up all the money, he needs to play better to deserve his contract.

overall there's a lot of factors at play here, and they're all just kinda coming to me at once so i'm just gotta spit em out here...

missed games. like previously mentioned, wade and bosh have both missed 8 games. mcroberts only started 4 games and hes done. then granger has missed 20, birdman has missed 14, and others like cole, deng, etc have missed a couple as well. the heat have rolled out over a dozen different starting lineups so far. spo being dumb doesn't help, i still don't know why he took shawne williams out of the rotation entirely when he filled in as a starter for mcroberts early in the year so well, and proved to be the teams best 3pt shooter.

team flaws becoming magnified. the heat even with lebron were a very flawed team. lebron helped cover those flaws. having the worse set of PGs in the league is a problem, especially without lebron leaving wade as the teams leading scorer and only facilitator on the roster. also being the worst rebounding team is a problem and deng is only averaging 4.8 rebounds as lebrons replacement. and still no rim protector(whiteside might start to change this) to cover on defense, forcing them to play their pick and roll blitz scheme that they no longer have the players to execute.

also, miami didn't just lose lebron, they lost allen and battier etc as well. there is no depth, and birdman has declined noticably. then you have chalmers who only did one thing decently, and that was shoot the 3. he's having his worse year % wise and in 3pt makes per game since he was a rookie. he no longer effectively spaces the floor, and he's been backing up wade at times at shooting guard without allen because they have no backup shooting guard. and deng hasn't filled in as well as some make it seem. he is averaging career lows in points and rebounds since his rookie year as well.

bottom line is that there is plenty wrong with this roster, the coach is dumb(sticking to a defense that doesn't work, won't adjust, terrible rotations, etc), and injuries and illness have made it almost impossible for a bunch of new players to mesh together up to this point. so the result is what it is.

TylerSL
01-09-2015, 08:30 PM
To your 4 main questions
1. Yes, Bosh deserves to be an All Star
2. Not unless their defense gets exponentially better
3. No
4. Yes

This team has had dealt with a plethora of injuries that has damaged this season, however it is shockingly not the #1 issue that continues to be the downfall of this team. I have been a fan of the Miami Heat since 2004, and in the now 11 years I have been a fan of this team, this is the worst defense they have ever had. I cannot explain it, but this is the worst defensive team I have ever seen the Heat have. I can live with the offense being middle of the pack, we would be good with a 16th ranked offense and a 8th ranked defense, but when the defense is one of the worst 5 in basketball its bad man. Very bad.

If we do not get this defense fixed, we are going to miss the postseason. Miami still has the potential to surprise a lot of people, and if we could get back to even the defense we had 2 or 3 years ago, this is a team that could get to the Eastern Conference Finals. But right now with the defense that we have had all year, we do not deserve to make the Eastern Conference Playoffs, right now, we do not desreve to make the playoffs in the Eastern Conference. Worst defense I've ever seen in 11 years. It's bad.

M.I.A.
01-09-2015, 08:38 PM
They sit at 15-21 but they have played with the efficacy of a 12-24 team. Their defense has fallen off a cliff, and while Wade has been revving up of late, both his and Bosh's overall 2-way efficiency has plummeted. Pace and Space has come to a screeching halt.

Their defense ranks 26th but only the Lakers, Knicks and T'Wolves are clearly worse. Offensively they've been middle of the pack. They have dealt with injuries to both Bosh and Wade already but I dont think that should be entirely unexpected given the circumstances. Beyond that, looking solely at lineups with both Wade and Bosh, they've still gotten outscored on average. At best they've barely played .500 level quality ball on the floor together. Which if you look back on the Big-3 era, is pretty much the quality of ball they displayed with Bron on the bench. And I know they've lost an MVP but they didn't exactly replace him with Pete Myers, they're getting quality play from Deng. Obviously that calls for a dropoff, but this much? They're in danger of missing the playoffs in the wretched East if they dont turn things around. To go from making the Finals to missing the playoffs entirely, from the loss of a single player doesn't happen very often.






So 4 main questions.

Do the Heat deserve to have a 2nd All-Star selection (Bosh).
Do you see them making any noise in the playoffs?
Did you predict this much of a drop off?
Do you see Bosh+Wade ever regaining their efficient forms? Even Bosh in Toronto was more effective IMO. And as much as I want to say its because hes sharing the ball more with Wade, hes actually never chucked to this degree.

I expected them to be worse.

1. I don't know.
2. No.
3. Predicted worse.
4. No.

KnicksorBust
01-09-2015, 09:13 PM
Someone please correct me if I am wrong but havent they dealt with injuries to 3 of their 4 best players?

Ty22Mitchell
01-09-2015, 09:14 PM
I am kind of glad the Heat fell off the way they did (not that I was ever wishing ill will towards them). There are a lot of people on this forum (as well as ESPN) who refused to acknowledge the dominance of LeBron in Miami. I am a die hard Laker fan, but I just never understood why everyone refused to give him credit for his accomplishments in Miami.

I honestly thought Miami would be a 5 or 6 seed. I thought they may advance to the second round. Guess I was wrong on that.

Sadds The Gr8
01-09-2015, 09:18 PM
Not this bad but I thought the east contender label for them from ppl was laughable. I thought they'd be a .500 team, which they could still be.

DemarDerozan
01-09-2015, 09:37 PM
So LeDisloyal is back in Miami to rehabilitate his sore back and knees.

So when did rehabilitating become the new term for scoring steroids?

**** Lebron.

DemarDerozan
01-09-2015, 09:39 PM
I am kind of glad the Heat fell off the way they did (not that I was ever wishing ill will towards them). There are a lot of people on this forum (as well as ESPN) who refused to acknowledge the dominance of LeBron in Miami. I am a die hard Laker fan, but I just never understood why everyone refused to give him credit for his accomplishments in Miami.

I honestly thought Miami would be a 5 or 6 seed. I thought they may advance to the second round. Guess I was wrong on that.

Turns out to be a lose lose situation for both parties. Lebron and his disfunctional team are barely over .500

Tony_Starks
01-09-2015, 09:42 PM
If we were to bump the Miami prediction thread the majority of people had them about as awful as the Knickerbockers are. They will still make the playoffs which is all that matters, and may very well go further than the Cavs if Wade and Bosh are healthy.

Tony_Starks
01-09-2015, 09:43 PM
Someone please correct me if I am wrong but havent they dealt with injuries to 3 of their 4 best players?

Yes they have, though people leave that part out...

J_M_B
01-09-2015, 09:47 PM
Someone please correct me if I am wrong but havent they dealt with injuries to 3 of their 4 best players?

Wade and Bosh have both missed 8 and McRoberts is done for the year. Its still a relatively new team that hasn't logged a lot of minutes together, but I can't make excuses for them. The defense has been ****ing horrible

DemarDerozan
01-09-2015, 09:47 PM
Honestly I thought they would do much better. And they still might do much better this is a team with extensive playoff experience. The East is wide open outside of WASH, ATL, TOR and CHI. Those final four spots can go to a number of teams.

tredigs
01-09-2015, 10:03 PM
Utah's Team D is going to crush it with Gobert getting more minutes. Did not expect him to have as much of an impact against OKC's strengths, but he's still managing to have a massive impact on that end.

bucketss
01-09-2015, 10:36 PM
That's what happens after 9 players leave a team that was built specifically to accommodate 1. Wade and bosh played fantastic 2nd and 3rd options, but at this point in their careers they can't carry a team anymore.

i mean, just last year they were superstars, now all of a sudden they can't carry a team at this point of their careers.

Chronz
01-09-2015, 10:38 PM
Yes they have, though people leave that part out...
Which people?

Yanks All Day
01-09-2015, 11:23 PM
I still don't think many people realize how many holes LeBron covered up just by himself on Miami in the last 2 years. He was the best scorer, rebounder, defender, passer, playmaker, and overall player on the entire court at all times.

Miami's last 2 seasons were legitimately LeBron doing everything, Wade playing 2/3 of the games at hardly a superstar level, Bosh playing soft, and the Heat relying on role players having games where 2 or 3 got hot at once. LeBron literally played a different role every night depending on what the Heat needed. When you remove the player that covered up all of those holes, this is what happens.

Tony_Starks
01-09-2015, 11:44 PM
I still don't think many people realize how many holes LeBron covered up just by himself on Miami in the last 2 years. He was the best scorer, rebounder, defender, passer, playmaker, and overall player on the entire court at all times.

Miami's last 2 seasons were legitimately LeBron doing everything, Wade playing 2/3 of the games at hardly a superstar level, Bosh playing soft, and the Heat relying on role players having games where 2 or 3 got hot at once. LeBron literally played a different role every night depending on what the Heat needed. When you remove the player that covered up all of those holes, this is what happens.

Don't you think a big part of that was him operating with the ball 90% of the time? He was their best scorer and passer regardless but I can't say Wade and Bosh were soft, they adjusted their game to accommodate him. Look at the problems Kevin Love is having playing with him, he was widely regarded as the best PF in the game prior to this season.....

numba1CHANGsta
01-10-2015, 12:20 AM
the Cavs are basically the Heat 2.0 now that they're stacked

WaDe03
01-10-2015, 01:40 AM
We have one consistent player. Bosh and Deng are inconsistent as hell and we have the worst point guards in the league. Whiteside has been nice in his playing time but Spo refuses to play him for some reason. Our coaching is horrible I've been saying it for years.

Duncan = Donkey
01-10-2015, 02:25 AM
Thought they would hover around .500 and they appear to be doing that.

Chrisclover
01-10-2015, 02:41 AM
No. This is shocking. I thought they would end up the 4th-5th. But judging at the current situation, they may be 7th or 8th at best when they are less troubled by the injuries.

Master Mind
01-10-2015, 05:26 AM
Still a lot of basketball left

jayjay33
01-10-2015, 05:53 AM
Remember when Lebron was on the most stacked team ever???? Lebron leaves and they are this team lol... A team everyone thought that would be tops in the least... Further shows how great Lebron is



Have u seen "Lebron's" cavs? Can't have it both ways.

Ty22Mitchell
01-10-2015, 06:42 AM
Turns out to be a lose lose situation for both parties. Lebron and his disfunctional team are barely over .500

True. In fairness to both parties, they've played a lot of basketball. Finals trips in four consecutive years is a lot of extra games.

What would Miami's record be if Lebron had stayed (let's assume LBJ breaks down in the same manner)?

IKnowHoops
01-10-2015, 07:16 AM
They sit at 15-21 but they have played with the efficacy of a 12-24 team. Their defense has fallen off a cliff, and while Wade has been revving up of late, both his and Bosh's overall 2-way efficiency has plummeted. Pace and Space has come to a screeching halt.

Their defense ranks 26th but only the Lakers, Knicks and T'Wolves are clearly worse. Offensively they've been middle of the pack. They have dealt with injuries to both Bosh and Wade already but I dont think that should be entirely unexpected given the circumstances. Beyond that, looking solely at lineups with both Wade and Bosh, they've still gotten outscored on average. At best they've barely played .500 level quality ball on the floor together. Which if you look back on the Big-3 era, is pretty much the quality of ball they displayed with Bron on the bench. And I know they've lost an MVP but they didn't exactly replace him with Pete Myers, they're getting quality play from Deng. Obviously that calls for a dropoff, but this much? They're in danger of missing the playoffs in the wretched East if they dont turn things around. To go from making the Finals to missing the playoffs entirely, from the loss of a single player doesn't happen very often.






So 4 main questions.

Do the Heat deserve to have a 2nd All-Star selection (Bosh).
Do you see them making any noise in the playoffs?
Did you predict this much of a drop off?
Do you see Bosh+Wade ever regaining their efficient forms? Even Bosh in Toronto was more effective IMO. And as much as I want to say its because hes sharing the ball more with Wade, hes actually never chucked to this degree.

I did expect this. Although I thought I was wrong early in the season when Bosh was playing like an MVP for 6 games. I said in the Heat forum 7-8th seed in the playoffs but wouldn't be surprised if they missed the playoffs. Without Bron, they cannot survive significant time missed by Wade or Bosh due to injury. Secondly I just thought Bosh was exposed over the last four years. Wade is always hurt and older. You give me Wade at Bosh at 23 years old and I think they are doing some series damage. But past 30 with injuries is just not good. Im not at all surprised, but I am surprised at how the Cavs have struggled. I understand now why its happening, but I didn't at all expect this. I do still however see them coming out of the east. Bron doesn't give much more than 50% during the regular season anymore. Also Spo is a horrid coach who absolutely cannot develop talent at all. There pg's are horrible. Cole hasn't developed at all. Chalmers is so bad.

IKnowHoops
01-10-2015, 07:19 AM
well apparently miami was stacked, and none of lebrons chips count since miami was the most stacked team ever.

This x infinity

IKnowHoops
01-10-2015, 07:39 AM
Yes they have, though people leave that part out...

Its because that has been the case for the last 3 years. Wade will probably play more games this year than he has in either of the last two years. When people call the Heat a super team, people leave out the part about Wade being and injured shell of himself the last three years.

Pakman
01-10-2015, 08:17 AM
I tell u what I did expect...the abundance of heat fans that were here in 2012 to disappear when LeBron left and it looks to be true

PurpleLynch
01-10-2015, 08:59 AM
Yes and no. They lost their best player,plus a lot of good role players and they were coming from four seasons with deep runs in the playoffs.
I honestly thought that Bosh would have played better with more shots for him,but I was wrong and maybe a change of scenery(heading to a new team?A comeback to Toronto would be awesome) is what he needs.
Wade is declining and it was predictable. Still,he puts good numbers.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-10-2015, 09:14 AM
Do the Heat deserve to have a 2nd All-Star selection (Bosh)?

Neither should be in but they shouldn't have 2 in.

Do you see them making any noise in the playoffs?

If healthy, yes.

Did you predict this much of a drop off?

I expect them to be like 6th seed and competitive in the playoffs.

Do you see Bosh+Wade ever regaining their efficient forms?

Not like before but they'll be efficient enough.

I think other teams ahead of Heat in playoff race should get the nod for All Star selections. Hawks should have two players minimum. Raptors should have one or two as well. Would be nice to see one Buck in there but we play as a team so like 6 or 7 guys averaging close to ten points each so doubt they get voted in. Knight could very well be a injury replacement sub. Since he's jacking up all the shots. But most likely some washed up NAME will get picked over any Bucks. Even though Giannis most exciting player in NBA right there with Davis.

Yeah not flashy 30 point games but all around game. Bucks are winning and 6th seed clawing on Cavs back for 5th seed. Never mind just checked standings Bucks are 5th seed. But with team ball and wins we get robbed of All Star like usual. But the league should be prepared out with the old in with the new. Cause Parker and Giannis next year better be in. Bucks only 5.5 games back from 4th seed Bulls. Bucks play Bulls tonight. Also Cavs shouldn't get 3 All Stars either.

M.I.A.
01-10-2015, 11:50 AM
the Cavs are basically the Heat 2.0 now that they're stacked

Nah. The old Heat was better than the Hawks and Raptors. Cavs have a long way to go.

SportsFanatic10
01-10-2015, 12:11 PM
the Cavs are basically the Heat 2.0 now that they're stacked

Miami never had all the depth and assets that the Cavs have had. But they still aren't as good so far lol. The Heat had to actually give away all their picks to sign Lebron and Bosh. There's a difference in strengths and weaknesses in comparison right now. The Cavs don't have the rebounding problem to the extend Miami did, and have a deeper bench, plus with Mozgov they actually have a proper center now which Miami never did. But Miami had the better big 3 at least early on, and was better on defense and in transition. The Cavs have a way to go to prove they can be on the level of those Heat teams. The Heat with Lebron never struggled like this that's for sure. In fact after the 9-8 start they went on to win 21 of the next 24 or something like that and the doubters were mostly gone just like that.

GodsSon
01-10-2015, 12:38 PM
The Heat having one All-Star is already a pity, let alone two.

M.I.A.
01-10-2015, 12:53 PM
The Heat having one All-Star is already a pity, let alone two.

I don't care how many all stars they have as long as my Hawks win more games than they do, finally. :)

Chronz
01-10-2015, 01:05 PM
Have u seen "Lebron's" cavs? Can't have it both ways.

Doesn't that only aid his point. They havent exactly been lighting the world on fire without Bron on the court this year.

SportsFanatic10
01-10-2015, 01:07 PM
The Heat having one All-Star is already a pity, let alone two.

cry about it all you want...it's happening, and i'd like to see the case against wade being a top 4 guard in the east or bosh being outside of the top 6 front court players this season. their numbers are there, they're both still allstars. wade's number 3 in ppg in the conference and has a better shooting percentage than anyone else in the top 10. bosh is number 5 and is 4th in fg% out of the top 10. it is what is it.

KnicksorBust
01-10-2015, 01:10 PM
Dey still in the playoffs doe.

Corey
01-10-2015, 01:15 PM
I expected them to be a top 3 seed, honestly. Bringing in Deng is a huge downgrade, obviously, but they still have a solid group of guys that should be performing a lot better than they are.

Chronz
01-10-2015, 01:18 PM
cry about it all you want...it's happening, and i'd like to see the case against wade being a top 4 guard in the east or bosh being outside of the top 6 front court players this season. their numbers are there, they're both still allstars. wade's number 3 in ppg in the conference and has a better shooting percentage than anyone else in the top 10. bosh is number 5 and is 4th in fg% out of the top 10. it is what is it.

Teague, Lowry and Butler are the only guys with an argument so yes, Wade is in. But Bosh? Im not so sure but I guess hes got a case. Its just that the All-Star game has always been about popularity with the starters but the coaches tend to look at some combination of WINNING+stats+Defensive Impact. And with regards to your statistical analysis, FG% is an irrelevant form of scoring efficiency, even less valuable when used to measure overall offensive efficiency.

They both have a case, but Bosh doesn't have the same defensive impact to garner such praise IMO.

SportsFanatic10
01-10-2015, 01:21 PM
Teague, Lowry and Butler are the only guys with an argument so yes, Wade is in. But Bosh? Im not so sure but I guess hes got a case. Its just that the All-Star game has always been about popularity with the starters but the coaches tend to look at some combination of WINNING+stats+Defensive Impact. And with regards to your statistical analysis, FG% is an irrelevant form of scoring efficiency, even less valuable when used to measure overall offensive efficiency.

They both have a case, but Bosh doesn't have the same defensive impact to garner such praise IMO.

I'll be the first to say i'm disappointed in Bosh this year. He just got that massive deal and I was expecting better. But i still think he's in the top 6 front court players in the East. I also admit neither should be starting, but i think they both should be in, especially wade. Who would be your top 6 in the front court?

likemystylez
01-10-2015, 01:25 PM
look what happened when lebron left cleveland a few yrs back. back to back best record in the league to losing 27 straight with most of the same pieces still there. Losing 27 straight in the east is hard to comprehend

likemystylez
01-10-2015, 01:26 PM
Dey still in the playoffs doe.

yeah- but int he east most jr high girls teams would prob be in the playoffs- half the conference is tanking

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-10-2015, 01:40 PM
I thought injury prone players can only get voted in by the fans? Coaches skip them? So Wade could get snubbed if that's a rule of thumb.

M.I.A.
01-10-2015, 01:46 PM
Bosh, Wade and Deng are good players. But without Lebron the Heat will not contend seriously. Lebron was the one who made this team great. Without him they are a better than average team at best.

SportsFanatic10
01-10-2015, 02:04 PM
Bosh, Wade and Deng are good players. But without Lebron the Heat will not contend seriously. Lebron was the one who made this team great. Without him they are a better than average team at best.

true, because all the flaws the team had with lebron remain. now they're just more magnified. some sort of bench and a starting caliber point guard would go a long way for this team.

RLundi
01-10-2015, 02:42 PM
Doesn't that only aid his point. They havent exactly been lighting the world on fire without Bron on the court this year.

They've been pretty underwhelming with him too though. And LeBron is still great, but this is arguably his worse season since he was a rookie. At some point, there's gotta be at least SOME accountability.

GoferKing_
01-10-2015, 02:44 PM
Yes, LeBron gone and crap of a coach do that to you.

SportsFanatic10
01-10-2015, 02:48 PM
I thought injury prone players can only get voted in by the fans? Coaches skip them? So Wade could get snubbed if that's a rule of thumb.

wade is being voted in as a starter as of right now i believe by the fans, and if not i hardly think that's a rule of thumb. i doubt missing 8 games would get the top scoring guard in the conference snubbed. it's one thing to have a rep for being injury prone, but if you've had a pretty healthy current season i don't see how past injuries would factor into coach voting.

edit: plus wades rep as an allstar having been one 10 straight years will carry more weight than his injury prone rep.

rockets-fan
01-10-2015, 02:49 PM
Bosh should've signed with Houston smh, I guess he has 2 ships already though.

SportsFanatic10
01-10-2015, 02:59 PM
Bosh should've signed with Houston smh, I guess he has 2 ships already though.

ya he wanted the money lol

KnicksorBust
01-10-2015, 03:44 PM
Dey still in the playoffs doe.

yeah- but int he east most jr high girls teams would prob be in the playoffs- half the conference is tanking

I dont think a jr high girls team would win a game in the NBA. I think they would go 0-82.

Dade County
01-10-2015, 04:12 PM
Do the Heat deserve to have a 2nd All-Star selection (Bosh).

Yes... He would be a non-starter anyway, so what.



Do you see them making any noise in the playoffs?

Only if Pat can pull off a trade... Another then that, NO!


Did you predict this much of a drop off?


Hell noooooooooo!


Do you see Bosh+Wade ever regaining their efficient forms?

If Pat can put an above average big next to Bosh, that would do wonders for him.

Wade isn't the same player anymore, so we have to upgrade at the pg & center spots; if Miami does that, I can see Wade leading them to some playoff series wins (but not winning the East).

FlashBolt
01-10-2015, 07:28 PM
This just shows you that LeBron's impact on a team is far greater than any individual can have. With Cleveland when he went to Miami, you ALL saw that difference. For Christ's sake, they went from being the best regular season team to having the worst combined record of 4 seasons. With LeBron out for the Cavs now, they are 1-7.. This is not a joke. LeBron is seriously undervalued at every metric of the game on/off. Look at Miami this season. You would think Deng/an improved Bosh/rejuvenated Wade and some others players would be able to at least hit the top 5 spot (Don't lie, many of you had them on your top 4). This Eastern Conference is relatively weak and yet, they might lose that spot to Charlotte. Arguably the best team the past four seasons is struggling to maintain their position in the playoffs. I mean think about it.. Their flaws in the game has been exposed considering James covered about 99% of their problems.

M.I.A.
01-10-2015, 09:11 PM
true, because all the flaws the team had with lebron remain. now they're just more magnified. some sort of bench and a starting caliber point guard would go a long way for this team.

I agree.

Tony_Starks
01-10-2015, 09:27 PM
This just shows you that LeBron's impact on a team is far greater than any individual can have. With Cleveland when he went to Miami, you ALL saw that difference. For Christ's sake, they went from being the best regular season team to having the worst combined record of 4 seasons. With LeBron out for the Cavs now, they are 1-7.. This is not a joke. LeBron is seriously undervalued at every metric of the game on/off. Look at Miami this season. You would think Deng/an improved Bosh/rejuvenated Wade and some others players would be able to at least hit the top 5 spot (Don't lie, many of you had them on your top 4). This Eastern Conference is relatively weak and yet, they might lose that spot to Charlotte. Arguably the best team the past four seasons is struggling to maintain their position in the playoffs. I mean think about it.. Their flaws in the game has been exposed considering James covered about 99% of their problems.

You're acting like Miami fell off a cliff, Cleveland is a whopping 4 games better than them with both teams dealing with injuries. If Cleveland was elite now and MIA was New York bad you would have a point but both teams have been mediocre thus far. Lebron got blown out by 30 twice at home so yes some of that is on him too....

SportsFanatic10
01-11-2015, 08:29 AM
You're acting like Miami fell off a cliff, Cleveland is a whopping 4 games better than them with both teams dealing with injuries. If Cleveland was elite now and MIA was New York bad you would have a point but both teams have been mediocre thus far. Lebron got blown out by 30 twice at home so yes some of that is on him too....

ya i agree, his post was over doing it. yes lebron carried the heat, but it's not like his teammates were bad as some suggest. both teams right now have under performed largely because of the adjustment to a new situation and injuries.

RowBTrice
01-11-2015, 08:35 AM
Yes I did. And I told their fans as much but they didn't want to listen.

jimm120
01-11-2015, 08:43 AM
people gotta understand that no matter what, Miami was going to do worse this season with Lebron or without Lebron

Wade is injury prone and is 33 yrs. NBA players decline sharply after age 32.

Bosh is good, but we saw him scoring 25ppg in toronto and didn't help

Lebron would be in slight athletic decline, and a lot of his game is based on his freakish athletic decline. till top 4 player.


So, take out a top 2 player (though playing a bit worse than that. Still very high, though) and guess what, they're exactly where you expected them to be. Well, a bit lower, but I expect them to pull back up. Wade was missing a few games and now is out, as expected. Bosh can't carry the load that much, as expected.

With the 3, the team was expected to be worse no matter what.
Without Lebron, its even lower.


Lebron knew he had to go to a team in which the stars were younger. They (love/irving) weren't a top 5 Wade or top 15 Bosh like they were when he went to miami in 2010, but they were good enough and on the rise.

He could have chosen a better new team, but end of the day, he's still better off on a new team than a Miami team that was on decline and no way of adding new players.

Goose17
01-11-2015, 11:39 AM
You're acting like Miami fell off a cliff, Cleveland is a whopping 4 games better than them with both teams dealing with injuries. If Cleveland was elite now and MIA was New York bad you would have a point but both teams have been mediocre thus far. Lebron got blown out by 30 twice at home so yes some of that is on him too....

Yeah but Cleveland is a completely new roster of guys who have never played together, under a coach who has never coached in the nba before and they're learning new plays etc. Struggling yes. But we expected them to struggle to some extent. Or most sensible people did. Maybe not this much though.

Miami on the other hand are almost the same team they were last year in terms of personnel, almost.

You can't deny Lebrons impact. It's pretty obvious.

M.I.A.
01-11-2015, 01:42 PM
It appears as though all the deranged Heat fans went with Lebron. That is a good thing.

KnicksorBust
01-11-2015, 01:56 PM
You're acting like Miami fell off a cliff, Cleveland is a whopping 4 games better than them with both teams dealing with injuries. If Cleveland was elite now and MIA was New York bad you would have a point but both teams have been mediocre thus far. Lebron got blown out by 30 twice at home so yes some of that is on him too....

ya i agree, his post was over doing it. yes lebron carried the heat, but it's not like his teammates were bad as some suggest. both teams right now have under performed largely because of the adjustment to a new situation and injuries.

A rational post. What a breath of fresh air.

Chronz
01-12-2015, 06:02 AM
They've been pretty underwhelming with him too though. And LeBron is still great, but this is arguably his worse season since he was a rookie. At some point, there's gotta be at least SOME accountability.

Underwhelming yes, but not unbelievably bad, which is what they have been with him out. And to be honest, pre-season projections are just that, seeing both of these teams has been sad, seeing them without Bron has been revealing.

Chronz
01-12-2015, 06:07 AM
I'll be the first to say i'm disappointed in Bosh this year. He just got that massive deal and I was expecting better. But i still think he's in the top 6 front court players in the East. I also admit neither should be starting, but i think they both should be in, especially wade. Who would be your top 6 in the front court?
Aside from the starters cant really think of Many, East is pretty thin on that end.


people gotta understand that no matter what, Miami was going to do worse this season with Lebron or without Lebron

Wade is injury prone and is 33 yrs. NBA players decline sharply after age 32.

Bosh is good, but we saw him scoring 25ppg in toronto and didn't help

Lebron would be in slight athletic decline, and a lot of his game is based on his freakish athletic decline. till top 4 player.


So, take out a top 2 player (though playing a bit worse than that. Still very high, though) and guess what, they're exactly where you expected them to be. Well, a bit lower, but I expect them to pull back up. Wade was missing a few games and now is out, as expected. Bosh can't carry the load that much, as expected.

With the 3, the team was expected to be worse no matter what.
Without Lebron, its even lower.


Lebron knew he had to go to a team in which the stars were younger. They (love/irving) weren't a top 5 Wade or top 15 Bosh like they were when he went to miami in 2010, but they were good enough and on the rise.

He could have chosen a better new team, but end of the day, he's still better off on a new team than a Miami team that was on decline and no way of adding new players.

Well said.

SteBO
01-12-2015, 08:07 AM
Injuries hit them hard, but as the OP said, pace and space has come to a screeching halt and Spo is trying to continue this strategy without floor spacers.....so I'm honestly not all that shocked. I thought Spo would adjust to the times, but it hasn't happened yet. Still waiting.....

Steelers23_06
01-12-2015, 09:28 AM
They lost the best player in the world and are still in the playoff mix. Also while their best player on their team has missed 8 games. I think they've done exactly what I expected a 6-8 seed. It's nothing like what happened to Cle after bron left. They went from first to worst. I don't think anyone expected this heat to be top 4. Although the cavs are under-achieving i still dont think anyone expected Miami to be 2½ games behind cleveland almost halfway through the season. Don't be so quick to knock a team.

Master Mind
01-12-2015, 09:33 AM
Just patiently waiting til the “did you expect the heat to make it this far" thread spawns.

Hardaway Here
01-12-2015, 09:59 AM
I'm just taking away the upside in Hassan Whitesides play. It would nice if he could be a 20 & 10 big for us going forward. I'm interested in seeing what he does if he is able to start. It's only been one game with production like this but I'm hopeful

Hardaway Here
01-12-2015, 10:03 AM
To the person that said this is virtually the same team as last year just with Lebron gone is so dead wrong. We got about 6 players from last years team last I check rosters have 15. With around 8-11 players ever in rotation. One of those 6 (UD) doesn't really play all that much anyway. So that's just not a good argument. Injuries have affected us. Guys do need time to adjust. I also want to go on record that I cant stand Granger.

ATX
01-12-2015, 10:38 AM
Miami has fallen off from their warm start to the season, but injuries have played a role here. I have no doubt that Miami is an above .500 team, and will get their by the end of February. Bosh is back and healthy, Wade is seemingly healthy and playing above most non Heat fans expectations, and Whiteside is a nice surprise. Of course they weren't going to be as good sans James, but they are not falling off a cliff like how Cleveland did in 2010-2011. Playoff team in a weak Eastern Conference, but not a contender as they were with James.

mjt20mik
01-12-2015, 11:22 AM
Yes I expected this. To be honest, Spo did a helluva job managing the roster the last two years with Lebron. Its just hard for them to be good this year considering a there lack of depth, amount of injuries, and reliance on Wade and Bosh. Both of them are playing well, but I'm still skeptical about Wade staying healthy for the full season.

They will make the playoffs, but I think a 6-8 seed is their range. Again, they are a good defensive team, so I wouldn't be surprised if they beat a top 3 team in the East in the first round.

zfzfg
01-12-2015, 11:35 AM
Honestly, yes. When you remove the best player on the planet this is what I expected to happen. http://ehealthca.com/hu12uk1.jpg http://ehealthca.com/ipad/images/123.gif

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-12-2015, 11:51 AM
I expected a nose dive of Miami even with LeBron staying. Big 3 had tons of miles on them. I expect Wade to have a huge drop off next year. Maybe a prediction of 15 points or 17 points per game. Guess still decent for a old guy. But I expect more losses so consider it stat padding on losing team. Miami barely clinging on for dear life for 8th seed now. Just my opinion though. I'll eat crow if Wade still averaging 25 a night. But if its more losses next year then this season then its still considered stat padding.

Hawkeye15
01-12-2015, 12:27 PM
Yes. Wade has looked gimpy for the last 2 years with any real workload, and the Heat lost the best player in the world, with an aging roster that was built for him. I figured a .500 type team that would make the east playoffs and be killed in round 1.

Plus, you have a roster used to coasting the regular season, mentality wise. Only now, they are missing LeBron.

Vampirate
01-12-2015, 12:42 PM
Yes I expected this. To be honest, Spo did a helluva job managing the roster the last two years with Lebron. Its just hard for them to be good this year considering a there lack of depth, amount of injuries, and reliance on Wade and Bosh. Both of them are playing well, but I'm still skeptical about Wade staying healthy for the full season.

They will make the playoffs, but I think a 6-8 seed is their range. Again, they are a good defensive team, so I wouldn't be surprised if they beat a top 3 team in the East in the first round.

Actually they aren't a good defensive team atm, they play at a snail's pace going through molasses.

RLundi
01-12-2015, 01:16 PM
They lost the best player in the world and are still in the playoff mix. Also while their best player on their team has missed 8 games. I think they've done exactly what I expected a 6-8 seed. It's nothing like what happened to Cle after bron left. They went from first to worst. I don't think anyone expected this heat to be top 4. Although the cavs are under-achieving i still dont think anyone expected Miami to be 2½ games behind cleveland almost halfway through the season. Don't be so quick to knock a team.

Many people DID expect the Heat to be top 4. I remember projections had them winning 45 games or so. Yes, they aren't as bad as Cleveland was, but the Cavs were already thin with LeBron; once he let, they had NO ONE. This Heat team has 2 top 25 players, a solid 3 in Deng, a decent coach and a mix of young players and veterans. They are just bad.

And a 6-8 seed was likely, sure, but not THIS version. They are below .500, they may not even have a winning record by season's end. No matter how anyone tries to slice it, they've under-performed significantly.

WaDe03
01-12-2015, 02:20 PM
There's still a lot of time left to get better and/or make some trades so you never know what might happen. Whiteside has been promising and I think we've found our big man we needed going forward. This win against the Clippers was promising and could be a turning point but then again I thought the win against the Cavs would be too.

I think we make a couple trades for a PG and backup SG and have been hearing rumors about signing Blatche who we could bring off the bench. We could turn things around pretty fast.

ewing
01-12-2015, 02:24 PM
no, i thought they would be a better.

Big Zo
01-12-2015, 03:00 PM
They're better than their current record. I expect them to get above .500, and climb up a few spots in the playoff seeding. Don't really matter either way, since the organization is just waiting for summer 2016.

jayjay33
01-12-2015, 04:48 PM
Have u seen "Lebron's" cavs? Can't have it both ways.

Doesn't that only aid his point. They havent exactly been lighting the world on fire without Bron on the court this year.



Have they been lighting the court on fire with him?

jayjay33
01-12-2015, 04:53 PM
They've been pretty underwhelming with him too though. And LeBron is still great, but this is arguably his worse season since he was a rookie. At some point, there's gotta be at least SOME accountability.

Underwhelming yes, but not unbelievably bad, which is what they have been with him out. And to be honest, pre-season projections are just that, seeing both of these teams has been sad, seeing them without Bron has been revealing.

Not the point. Heat haven't been good without LBJ. But he hasn't been good without them either. As I said the "look at you without me" argument Swings both ways.

IKnowHoops
01-12-2015, 05:15 PM
Have they been lighting the court on fire with him?

18-11 with Bron

1-8 without him.

They win 11% of the time without him ands 62% with him. They win 5x more when he is on the court. I'd say thats pretty substantial. His impact is still a monster?

You can't find another player in the league with a bigger impact. STILL!

Munkeysuit
01-12-2015, 05:55 PM
I am going to be honest here, I didn't think Miami would have fell off so far at the beginning of the season, their roster is on point and their system is a proven system as well, however, it doesn't surprise me given that they are centered around Bosh who (in my opinion) is a star but a sketchy one at best.

Wrench
01-12-2015, 06:30 PM
Have to remember the team lost more than just Lebron.

Shane Battier/Ray Allen (Kinda) retired and Michael Beasley/Rashard Lewis (Both had 800+ mins played) both signed else where.

The team has also bit hit with alot of injures. Anderson missed 14 games, Bosh has missed 8 and Josh McRoberts has missed 8 or so and then was out for the rest of the season.

The team is seeming to come around a little bit with guys now healthy and Hassan Whiteside coming out of now where. Like to see what happen in the next 20 games or so.

Tony_Starks
01-12-2015, 07:28 PM
You're acting like Miami fell off a cliff, Cleveland is a whopping 4 games better than them with both teams dealing with injuries. If Cleveland was elite now and MIA was New York bad you would have a point but both teams have been mediocre thus far. Lebron got blown out by 30 twice at home so yes some of that is on him too....

ya i agree, his post was over doing it. yes lebron carried the heat, but it's not like his teammates were bad as some suggest. both teams right now have under performed largely because of the adjustment to a new situation and injuries.

A rational post. What a breath of fresh air.


Glad you approve.

Tony_Starks
01-12-2015, 07:33 PM
Have they been lighting the court on fire with him?

18-11 with Bron

1-8 without him.

They win 11% of the time without him ands 62% with him. They win 5x more when he is on the court. I'd say thats pretty substantial. His impact is still a monster?

You can't find another player in the league with a bigger impact. STILL!

Not all of those 9 games Lebron missed was just him. Kyrie was out for some, I believe Love missed at least one of those, Marion missed the last few, and there's also no Andy V. So to say 1-8 without Lebron is a bit misleading, at least two of their starting lineup has been out during that time....

SportsFanatic10
01-12-2015, 07:42 PM
I am going to be honest here, I didn't think Miami would have fell off so far at the beginning of the season, their roster is on point and their system is a proven system as well, however, it doesn't surprise me given that they are centered around Bosh who (in my opinion) is a star but a sketchy one at best.

i disagree with their roster being on point. they only have two facilitators in wade and mcroberts who's done for the season and never even really played at all. the pg position is absolute garbage, and without lebron that leaves a past his prime wade with the huge burden of leading the team in scoring and creating for others as the assist leader. also they lack depth and have a brutal bench, without even a proper shooting guard to back up wade which is a big hole. they've been without a proper center(until maybe now with whiteside looking like he could potentially become that guy) resulting in no rim protection and rebounding. they rank as one of the worst...maybe the worst rebounding team i'd have to check. so there are very real flaws with the roster.

as for a proven system, well it worked well enough when they had the sheer talent to overcome the flaws and played to their strengths. but now that they no longer do it's outdated. they no longer have the athleticism on the wing to create all the steals and close to the 3pt arc after overloading the strong side to be effective with that defensive trapping scheme. it showed last year that it no longer worked for them, but it did the previous 3(minus the dallas series in the first season together) years before guys like battier and wade slowed down on defense. also they don't have all the 3pt shooters to execute the pace and space, or the fast break weapons as before. the system has to change with the roster to be effective.

The Flash
01-12-2015, 07:49 PM
i disagree with their roster being on point. they only have two facilitators in wade and mcroberts who's done for the season and never even really played at all. the pg position is absolute garbage, and without lebron that leaves a past his prime wade with the huge burden of leading the team in scoring and creating for others as the assist leader. also they lack depth and have a brutal bench, without even a proper shooting guard to back up wade which is a big hole. they've been without a proper center(until maybe now with whiteside looking like he could potentially become that guy) resulting in no rim protection and rebounding. they rank as one of the worst...maybe the worst rebounding team i'd have to check. so there are very real flaws with the roster.

as for a proven system, well it worked well enough when they had the sheer talent to overcome the flaws and played to their strengths. but now that they no longer do it's outdated. they no longer have the athleticism on the wing to create all the steals and close to the 3pt arc after overloading the strong side to be effective with that defensive trapping scheme. it showed last year that it no longer worked for them, but it did the previous 3(minus the dallas series in the first season together) years before guys like battier and wade slowed down on defense. also they don't have all the 3pt shooters to execute the pace and space, or the fast break weapons as before. the system has to change with the roster to be effective.

This post is right on point.

3ballbomber
01-12-2015, 07:52 PM
People must put things into perspective and issues into consideration.....

Had Miami been healthy our record would be above .500. W/ all the injuries has not allowed any stability, continuity, consistency & the line up & rotations has suffered! In turn the execution becomes inefficient. Furthermore add all the new players, D-Leaguers & rookies it further adds to the struggles since Miami are still trying to build chemistry w/ these new cats. Both Wade & Bosh has missed around 3 weeks together, we lost Mcroberts who was supposed to be a vital part of their roster and then had to readjust. It's been a season filled with injuries and readjustments. Now we bring Whiteside into the fold wich is another adjustment period.....

.......So we had to find our way through all the many issues and now that we have become the healthiest we've ever been and the chaos simmers down we can now concentrate on finding consistency in line ups and rotations. Whiteside seems to be finding success in our system and is also complimenting the players around him. Miami will claw it's way out of below .500 and fight for that 6-8th spot in the East. Miami was always better than their record, people in the league realized that. Once you put things into perspective w/ all their struggles and issues one can understand that Miami will not be a below .500 team for long.

One thing is for certain was that Miami was never really a top 5 team in the East. I put them as 6th, at best. But considering all they been through they're record could be worse. W/ that said we're doin ok.

Jeffy25
01-12-2015, 08:01 PM
I felt like Deng would help them still win 45-50 games or so this year.

So yeah, it's a bigger drop off than expected.

Wade and Bosh haven't played that poorly, but I fail to see the defense on this team.

jayjay33
01-12-2015, 08:26 PM
Have they been lighting the court on fire with him?

18-11 with Bron

1-8 without him.

They win 11% of the time without him ands 62% with him. They win 5x more when he is on the court. I'd say thats pretty substantial. His impact is still a monster?

You can't find another player in the league with a bigger impact. STILL!

And almost half the Heat loses are without wade or bosh. However you wanna look at it, LBJ isn't doing much better without heat, than they are without him.

Jeffy25
01-12-2015, 09:39 PM
That's what happens after 9 players leave a team that was built specifically to accommodate 1. Wade and bosh played fantastic 2nd and 3rd options, but at this point in their careers they can't carry a team anymore.

A year ago, you were telling all of us they were superstars

rex.reyesiii
01-13-2015, 09:37 AM
Not all of those 9 games Lebron missed was just him. Kyrie was out for some, I believe Love missed at least one of those, Marion missed the last few, and there's also no Andy V. So to say 1-8 without Lebron is a bit misleading, at least two of their starting lineup has been out during that time....

Whew. Glad/(or I hope) that guy doesn't post on the Miami Heat forums anymore after LBJ went away. *Next would be the Beasley fanboys.

:hide:

Chronz
01-13-2015, 11:09 AM
Have they been lighting the court on fire with him?
I dont think we've ever seen a team go from horrendous to being the best in the league, so thats kind of unrealistic. But I guess it depends on how you define your question. Obviously no player is single handedly responsible for his team, but if anyone comes that close in terms of individual production+impact, its been Bron over the years. Thats why were are contextualizing the actual impact his presence has had.
Its clear they've fallen off pretty significantly without him thus far. Its pretty sad when you're losing to the likes of Philly.


Not the point. Heat haven't been good without LBJ. But he hasn't been good without them either. As I said the "look at you without me" argument Swings both ways.
Hows it not the point? Both teams have played ****** without him and SIGNIFICANTLY better with him.

Even during the Big-3 days, the combo of Wade and Bosh weren't doing any different without Bron than they have been thus far. They were playing .500 quality ball in the minutes Bron sat over the years, save for maybe their first chip run iirc, the biggest difference is that they've at least replaced Bron with Deng and the injuries are more costly now that Bron isn't around.

Chronz
01-13-2015, 11:12 AM
And almost half the Heat loses are without wade or bosh. However you wanna look at it, LBJ isn't doing much better without heat, than they are without him.

But shouldn't we have expected Wade to miss some time? I know this is the best hes been physically in awhile but this is a guy who missed a ton of games the last few years even though Bron was shouldering the load for him. You give him a greater role and his dropoff in efficiency and health should be somewhat expected.

Chronz
01-13-2015, 11:23 AM
People must put things into perspective and issues into consideration.....

Had Miami been healthy....
See, to me, you're not putting things into perspective if you were expecting this cast to stay healthy all year. At some point, you've got to figure they would get banged up. Wade was getting banged up even when he didn't have much of a load to carry and could take games off.


our record would be above .500.
Even with pristine health and ignoring all the injuries sustained league wide (an unfair advantage), I barely see them at .500. Their level of play with their main guys healthy hasn't exactly screamed above.500 to me.


W/ all the injuries has not allowed any stability, continuity, consistency & the line up & rotations has suffered! In turn the execution becomes inefficient. Furthermore add all the new players, D-Leaguers & rookies it further adds to the struggles since Miami are still trying to build chemistry w/ these new cats. Both Wade & Bosh has missed around 3 weeks together, we lost Mcroberts who was supposed to be a vital part of their roster and then had to readjust. It's been a season filled with injuries and readjustments. Now we bring Whiteside into the fold wich is another adjustment period.....

.......So we had to find our way through all the many issues and now that we have become the healthiest we've ever been and the chaos simmers down we can now concentrate on finding consistency in line ups and rotations. Whiteside seems to be finding success in our system and is also complimenting the players around him. Miami will claw it's way out of below .500 and fight for that 6-8th spot in the East. Miami was always better than their record, people in the league realized that. Once you put things into perspective w/ all their struggles and issues one can understand that Miami will not be a below .500 team for long.

One thing is for certain was that Miami was never really a top 5 team in the East. I put them as 6th, at best. But considering all they been through they're record could be worse. W/ that said we're doin ok.

Whiteside has been a revelation, did you see how pissed he was that Doc Rivers passed him up this Summer. Man Doc has been a HORRIBLE GM for my Clips.

Im sure your team plays better from here on out, this dropoff has been TOO dramatic. If Whiteside develops, hes a game changer entirely, wouldn't want the Heat in R1 with a Center like that.

Hoopsadvocate
01-13-2015, 03:22 PM
I dont think we've ever seen a team go from horrendous to being the best in the league, so thats kind of unrealistic.


Even during the Big-3 days, the combo of Wade and Bosh weren't doing any different without Bron than they have been thus far. They were playing .500 quality ball in the minutes Bron sat over the years, save for maybe their first chip run iirc, the biggest difference is that they've at least replaced Bron with Deng and the injuries are more costly now that Bron isn't around.

Ummm check the 06 celtics they had the 2nd worse record in the league and only won around 25 games. The following year they had a 66 win season and won a championship.

I'd say that qualifies as going from horrendous to best in the league.....

Chronz
01-13-2015, 03:37 PM
Ummm check the 06 celtics they had the 2nd worse record in the league and only won around 25 games. The following year they had a 66 win season and won a championship.

I'd say that qualifies as going from horrendous to best in the league.....
Not in the context of it being 1 man's doing

Hoopsadvocate
01-13-2015, 03:48 PM
Not in the context of it being 1 man's doing

Neither was the intention of the cavs or heat. They both added 2 superstars (lebron & love/bosh) to their 1 existing star (kyrie/wade)

Hell miami did what they did partially because they saw Boston quick success with it (knocking d wade and lebron individually out of the playoffs) and cleveland followed miami suit. miami

So I'd say it is in the same context.

RiLoc
01-13-2015, 04:00 PM
Do the Heat deserve to have a 2nd All-Star selection (Bosh).
No. I don't think they deserve any all star selections to be honest. Bosh is my favorite player and in general I like the Heat, but there are too many players, even in the East, having better seasons. If you judge solely on basic stats and PER, yea, I suppose so. But in terms of Win Shares (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2015&year_max=2015&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=600&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws), Plus/Minus numbers (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM) and team performance, it gets harder to make that case...


Do you see them making any noise in the playoffs?
No, because if they make, they'll probably 6-8 seed, meaning they'll play Washington, Atlanta or Chicago. Those would all be difficult matchups.


Did you predict this much of a drop off?
Nope. I thought they'd be where the Cavs are right now; .500 team with some struggles but in the 4th-6th seed. The McRoberts injury hurt, as they're pretty thin on bigs.


Do you see Bosh+Wade ever regaining their efficient forms?[/B] Even Bosh in Toronto was more effective IMO. And as much as I want to say its because hes sharing the ball more with Wade, hes actually never chucked to this degree.
Wade definitely not. Wade is what he is now, a good veteran than can play well in spurts when healthy.

Bosh? Perhaps, perhaps not. The LeBron era really changed Bosh. He's just not CB4 anymore, he's a pace and space big. His shooting ability really separates him from other bigs. The change in skillset is more sustainable as he starts getting into his mid-30s. That being said, he could easily get the reputation of having an albatross contract when he's 34 and making 26.8 million. Hopefully the raised salary cap saves him a little there.

I think Bosh is capable of being a good IQ defender, but I think the current composition of the Miami team demands a lot of him offensively and it's taken away from his defensive game. Perhaps the same could be said of Wade.

I agree that Bosh, so far this season, was more effective in the final years of Toronto. In regards to the chucking, who else should shoot on Miami? Wade shoots more the next three scoring choices are Chalmers, Deng and Granger. Given how often Bosh shoots, his TS% is still pretty solid despite some slumps this year and his eFG% is higher than it ever was in Toronto.

jayjay33
01-13-2015, 07:01 PM
Have they been lighting the court on fire with him?
I dont think we've ever seen a team go from horrendous to being the best in the league, so thats kind of unrealistic. But I guess it depends on how you define your question. Obviously no player is single handedly responsible for his team, but if anyone comes that close in terms of individual production+impact, its been Bron over the years. Thats why were are contextualizing the actual impact his presence has had.
Its clear they've fallen off pretty significantly without him thus far. Its pretty sad when you're losing to the likes of Philly.


Not the point. Heat haven't been good without LBJ. But he hasn't been good without them either. As I said the "look at you without me" argument Swings both ways.
Hows it not the point? Both teams have played ****** without him and SIGNIFICANTLY better with him.

Even during the Big-3 days, the combo of Wade and Bosh weren't doing any different without Bron than they have been thus far. They were playing .500 quality ball in the minutes Bron sat over the years, save for maybe their first chip run iirc, the biggest difference is that they've at least replaced Bron with Deng and the injuries are more costly now that Bron isn't around.


1. So I guess that's a long winded NO. And it's not really my question. The whole "lighting the court on fire" thing was your phrase. I simply pointed out the cavs haven't either.


2. It's not the point. Because your clearly spinning the facts in an effort to make an argument that supports your "opinion".

Half the heats loses have come without wade or bosh. You can't count those. Maybe they woulda lost anyway, maybe not. But you can't just attribute the heats "BIG fall off" to LBJ's absence in order to inflate his perceived impact. All great players have a SIGNIFICANT impact on there teams.

KnicksorBust
01-13-2015, 07:04 PM
Have they been lighting the court on fire with him?
I dont think we've ever seen a team go from horrendous to being the best in the league, so thats kind of unrealistic. But I guess it depends on how you define your question. Obviously no player is single handedly responsible for his team, but if anyone comes that close in terms of individual production+impact, its been Bron over the years. Thats why were are contextualizing the actual impact his presence has had.
Its clear they've fallen off pretty significantly without him thus far. Its pretty sad when you're losing to the likes of Philly.


Not the point. Heat haven't been good without LBJ. But he hasn't been good without them either. As I said the "look at you without me" argument Swings both ways.
Hows it not the point? Both teams have played ****** without him and SIGNIFICANTLY better with him.

Even during the Big-3 days, the combo of Wade and Bosh weren't doing any different without Bron than they have been thus far. They were playing .500 quality ball in the minutes Bron sat over the years, save for maybe their first chip run iirc, the biggest difference is that they've at least replaced Bron with Deng and the injuries are more costly now that Bron isn't around.


It's not the point. Because your clearly spinning the facts in an effort to make an argument supports your "opinion".

Half the heats loses have come without wade or bosh. You can't count those. Maybe they woulda lost anyway, maybe not. But you can't just attribute the heats "BIG fall off" to LBJ's absence in order to inflate his perceived impact.

I completely agree. This forums game plan these days is to find every injured player or team and just rip into them for under performing. Give me a break. I have to pour through a ton of crap before finding the handful of people on this site who give context to situations.

Chronz
01-13-2015, 10:34 PM
Neither was the intention of the cavs or heat. They both added 2 superstars (lebron & love/bosh) to their 1 existing star (kyrie/wade)

Hell miami did what they did partially because they saw Boston quick success with it (knocking d wade and lebron individually out of the playoffs) and cleveland followed miami suit. miami

So I'd say it is in the same context.
Check the quote i responded to, dude is talking about 1 man, u were talking about significantly greater pieces than 1 man.

Chronz
01-13-2015, 10:40 PM
1. So I guess that's a long winded NO. And it's not really my question. The whole "lighting the court on fire" thing was your phrase. I simply pointed out the cavs haven't either.


2. It's not the point. Because your clearly spinning the facts in an effort to make an argument that supports your "opinion".

Half the heats loses have come without wade or bosh. You can't count those. Maybe they woulda lost anyway, maybe not. But you can't just attribute the heats "BIG fall off" to LBJ's absence in order to inflate his perceived impact. All great players have a SIGNIFICANT impact on there teams.

It's only a no If you can't find many historical comps . it's hard to say with so little context applied.

How am i spinning the facts when they stand in their own. I don't know how anyone could exonerate ininjuries when discussing a player who missed time even when he wasn't carrying a massive load so looks to me you're the only one spinning anything.

Chronz
01-13-2015, 10:41 PM
I completely agree. This forums game plan these days is to find every injured player or team and just rip into them for under performing. Give me a break. I have to pour through a ton of crap before finding the handful of people on this site who give context to situations.
That's not my gameplan, this isn't anything new. This is years of play in the making.

jayjay33
01-13-2015, 11:57 PM
1. So I guess that's a long winded NO. And it's not really my question. The whole "lighting the court on fire" thing was your phrase. I simply pointed out the cavs haven't either.


2. It's not the point. Because your clearly spinning the facts in an effort to make an argument that supports your "opinion".

Half the heats loses have come without wade or bosh. You can't count those. Maybe they woulda lost anyway, maybe not. But you can't just attribute the heats "BIG fall off" to LBJ's absence in order to inflate his perceived impact. All great players have a SIGNIFICANT impact on there teams.

It's only a no If you can't find many historical comps . it's hard to say with so little context applied.

How am i spinning the facts when they stand in their own. I don't know how anyone could exonerate ininjuries when discussing a player who missed time even when he wasn't carrying a massive load so looks to me you're the only one spinning anything.


Sorry won't wash......your clearly spinning the facts. Your using the "fact" that the heat have had a big fall off. And The "fact" that LBJ is gone, to spin A biased argument that LBJ not being there is the reason for there BIG fall off. Even though Wade and Bosh have missed half the games they lost.

And since you don't know. That is EXACTLY what spin is. Only using part of the facts to paint the picture you want to paint. For example if someone says the cavs have been bad with LBJ. Then you would be quick to point out that several of the games they lost were when he was out. Because not mentioning that LBJ was out, SPINS the facts and makes the situation seem different than it actually is. Simple concept.

So basically it's like your taking a second member of the big 3 an attributing their impact to LBJ.


Also sorry but I don't get your absurd notion that me pointing out that Wade or bosh have missed half the games the heat have lost is me spinning. The truth is the heats BIG fall off is probably from missing LeBron AND another member of the big three.

Chronz
01-14-2015, 01:58 AM
Sorry won't wash......your clearly spinning the facts. Your using the "fact" that the heat have had a big fall off. And The "fact" that LBJ is gone, to spin A biased argument that LBJ not being there is the reason for there BIG fall off. Even though Wade and Bosh have missed half the games they lost.
Actually, if you read the OP, I state that they have missed games. I dont think you know this but Wade missed alot of games last year too. And as I have stated before, Im not just talking about wins and losses, but about how there main lineups have fared, specifically WITH the Big2 vs how they have performed the last 4 years as well.


And since you don't know. That is EXACTLY what spin is. Only using part of the facts to paint the picture you want to paint. For example if someone says the cavs have been bad with LBJ. Then you would be quick to point out that several of the games they lost were when he was out. Because not mentioning that LBJ was out, SPINS the facts and makes the situation seem different than it actually is. Simple concept.
But thats exactly what I did for the Heat. And I would actually mention how they have fared with and without the player in question. Focusing on just wins and losses isn't my idea of an objective look. Still not seeing your point.


So basically it's like your taking a second member of the big 3 an attributing their impact to LBJ.

How so? Seems to me Im pointing out the obvious in saying hes had a HUGE impact on the collapse, just wondering how huge. As I've laid out already, there are various factors at play. Not sure where you're going with this.


Also sorry but I don't get your absurd notion that me pointing out that Wade or bosh have missed half the games the heat have lost is me spinning. The truth is the heats BIG fall off is probably from missing LeBron AND another member of the big three.
Its spinning because nobody should have expected Wade to remain healthy for an entire regular season. And it also neglects the aspects of my argument that have to do with he and Bosh actually on the court.

Hardaway Here
01-14-2015, 02:03 AM
Heat need a legit facilitator on the court period right now. When Wade is out and Bosh bricking every jumper he throws up it is just so hard to look at.

Chronz
01-14-2015, 02:13 AM
Heat need a legit facilitator on the court period right now. When Wade is out and Bosh bricking every jumper he throws up it is just so hard to look at.

I think you will notice the PG's will start to play better the more attention Whiteside begin to garner. The guy has been a revelation of late, he killed both LA teams on this road trip.

HuRRiCaNeS324
01-14-2015, 02:18 AM
I didn't expect it at all honestly. I thought we'd win 50 games and be a 5th seed. But if you told me before the season we'd have injury problems, then this would be the obvious outcome. We already had limited depth as it is, add injuries to that equation and that's what happens. We haven't had a consistent rotation all year; it's hard to find a rhythm like that.

jayjay33
01-14-2015, 08:13 AM
Sorry won't wash......your clearly spinning the facts. Your using the "fact" that the heat have had a big fall off. And The "fact" that LBJ is gone, to spin A biased argument that LBJ not being there is the reason for there BIG fall off. Even though Wade and Bosh have missed half the games they lost.
Actually, if you read the OP, I state that they have missed games. I dont think you know this but Wade missed alot of games last year too. And as I have stated before, Im not just talking about wins and losses, but about how there main lineups have fared, specifically WITH the Big2 vs how they have performed the last 4 years as well.


And since you don't know. That is EXACTLY what spin is. Only using part of the facts to paint the picture you want to paint. For example if someone says the cavs have been bad with LBJ. Then you would be quick to point out that several of the games they lost were when he was out. Because not mentioning that LBJ was out, SPINS the facts and makes the situation seem different than it actually is. Simple concept.
But thats exactly what I did for the Heat. And I would actually mention how they have fared with and without the player in question. Focusing on just wins and losses isn't my idea of an objective look. Still not seeing your point.


So basically it's like your taking a second member of the big 3 an attributing their impact to LBJ.

How so? Seems to me Im pointing out the obvious in saying hes had a HUGE impact on the collapse, just wondering how huge. As I've laid out already, there are various factors at play. Not sure where you're going with this.


Also sorry but I don't get your absurd notion that me pointing out that Wade or bosh have missed half the games the heat have lost is me spinning. The truth is the heats BIG fall off is probably from missing LeBron AND another member of the big three.
Its spinning because nobody should have expected Wade to remain healthy for an entire regular season. And it also neglects the aspects of my argument that have to do with he and Bosh actually on the court.



Lol, You start off talking about their record. But your not talking about wins and loses. So that means if they won those 9 games and had 9 more wins and 9 less loses (25-13) you still would have made a thread about how much the heat have fall off so much. Sorry I don't buy it. You were clearly using their record as the main part of your "collapse" premise.

And with that said lebron, not playing with the heat has had a HUGE impact on his teams collapse. When one of the big 3 is out. There's no longer 2 left to keep the team from sinking.

The heat and LBJ are having the same problem (injuries). LeBron's missing the heat about as much as their missing him.

But it's your topic and there's no reason for me to poo, poo your lebron appreciation thread. So I'll leave it alone and let you enjoy. :-)

Chrisclover
01-14-2015, 10:56 AM
True. In fairness to both parties, they've played a lot of basketball. Finals trips in four consecutive years is a lot of extra games.

What would Miami's record be if Lebron had stayed (let's assume LBJ breaks down in the same manner)?
Top 3 in the east.

Chrisclover
01-14-2015, 10:59 AM
I did expect this. Although I thought I was wrong early in the season when Bosh was playing like an MVP for 6 games. I said in the Heat forum 7-8th seed in the playoffs but wouldn't be surprised if they missed the playoffs. Without Bron, they cannot survive significant time missed by Wade or Bosh due to injury. Secondly I just thought Bosh was exposed over the last four years. Wade is always hurt and older. You give me Wade at Bosh at 23 years old and I think they are doing some series damage. But past 30 with injuries is just not good. Im not at all surprised, but I am surprised at how the Cavs have struggled. I understand now why its happening, but I didn't at all expect this. I do still however see them coming out of the east. Bron doesn't give much more than 50% during the regular season anymore. Also Spo is a horrid coach who absolutely cannot develop talent at all. There pg's are horrible. Cole hasn't developed at all. Chalmers is so bad.
Chalmers' decline was a huge reason why the heat lost last year. Calamity. I thought he grew stronger when he was steady and even sometimes dazzled us. It turned out that he was just a role player no different than others.

Slug3
01-14-2015, 11:14 AM
I thought we would be a 3-6 seed and possibly still can be. Our biggest problem so far is injuries, once we get people healthy someone else drops. I think we have started like 14 or 15 different lineups already this year. They need to get healthy so they can try and get some rhythm going as a team.

Chrisclover
01-14-2015, 11:44 AM
I thought we would be a 3-6 seed and possibly still can be. Our biggest problem so far is injuries, once we get people healthy someone else drops. I think we have started like 14 or 15 different lineups already this year. They need to get healthy so they can try and get some rhythm going as a team.
Though im not a heat fan, I dont want to see the then-dominant super team falls off the cliff. Let's hope Spo can fix this calamity. Wade deserves victories. He is respectable.

Hardaway Here
01-14-2015, 11:55 AM
Though im not a heat fan, I dont want to see the then-dominant super team falls off the cliff. Let's hope Spo can fix this calamity. Wade deserves victories. He is respectable.

I so rarely see anyone post anything like that about Wade on this site. Must be because LeBron is gone

Chronz
01-14-2015, 12:08 PM
Lol, You start off talking about their record. But your not talking about wins and loses.
Read the OP and re-read the post you just quoted. I never said I wasn't talking about their record, what I did say was that all this wasn't based solely on their record. I ALSO brought up their performance with both Wade and Bosh in the lineup.

DR_1
01-14-2015, 04:41 PM
i mean, just last year they were superstars, now all of a sudden they can't carry a team at this point of their careers.

They werent superstars last year imo

GCT
01-14-2015, 06:21 PM
Yes I did, but a little less than the current result, I mean Eastern Conference is already compared weak and to be so low is too awful. It just shows how valuable LeBron is to any team he plays, e.g. Cavs 2010-2011 , Heat 2014-2015.

Chrisclover
01-15-2015, 01:22 AM
I so rarely see anyone post anything like that about Wade on this site. Must be because LeBron is gone
Wade is loyal. Also he is older and more mature than Lebron. Lebron just cannot handle the overwhelming pressure properly.