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View Full Version : Is Wiggins better than Kevin Love already?



JustinTime
01-08-2015, 03:13 PM
I don't think anyone expected Wiggins to actually live up to his hype especially not this early but he is and recently he is putting up all-star offensive numbers to go along with his elite D. He has scored 20+ in 5 straight games and 7 of his last 8 games while shooting above 50% throughout that stretch. Kevin Love's numbers have dropped a bit but he is pretty much the same one-way player he was in Minnesota who often shoots below 50%. I know we can't really compare two different positions but on an impact level alone I think I'd take the Wiggins as of late over a non-defensive Love any day.

mngopher35
01-08-2015, 03:27 PM
Like a month ago you were saying Bennett was gonna be better than wiggins. You seriously gotta just stop talking about him.

Sadds The Gr8
01-08-2015, 03:29 PM
Lol

2-ONE-5
01-08-2015, 03:32 PM
Like a month ago you were saying Bennett was gonna be better than wiggins. You seriously gotta just stop talking about him.

after he was calling Wiggins the next big thing after 1 summer league game hahahaahahah this dude is the worst

lol, please
01-08-2015, 03:34 PM
I would take Wiggins over Love as well, though we have a miniscule sample size on Wiggins.

bucketss
01-08-2015, 03:35 PM
Lol

WITZ
01-08-2015, 03:37 PM
Like a month ago you were saying Bennett was gonna be better than wiggins. You seriously gotta just stop talking about him.

lmao the Canadian homerism is coming out again.

GiantsSwaGG
01-08-2015, 03:39 PM
.

That's all I have to say

Jamiecballer
01-08-2015, 03:39 PM
hahahaha thanks for the chuckle OP. i was having a really hard day and that helps.

Chronz
01-08-2015, 03:42 PM
So we should ignore the vast majority of the games played, and ignore their history on the TWolves?

Lmfao troll harder plz

JustinTime
01-08-2015, 03:44 PM
Guys i'm serious

D-Leethal
01-08-2015, 03:52 PM
Didn't think guy hate Wiggins last week?

mngopher35
01-08-2015, 03:54 PM
Guys i'm serious

Even looking at the last 8 games as the base and ignoring most of the season wiggins doesn't even compare to the numbers love was putting up last year on the wolves (wiggins is better defensively and that is it). Right now Klove has a lesser role and is fitting into his new team trying to build a winner.

I think wiggins definitely has the potential to be as good or better than love in the future but he isn't that close right now. Two years lets discuss this again maybe but wiggins has a lot of room to grow still to become a consistant all star type of player.

You need to stop overreacting to 5 game sample sizes when it comes to wiggins. The fact you compared him to Bennett a month ago and love now is ridiculous. Everyone told you back then he has tons of potential but needs time to grow and you said no he doesn't try he will never reach it because he plays video games all day. Now he shows that potential for a few games straight and he is better than proven all star players? Get outta here, no one can take that seriously.

BHF
01-08-2015, 03:55 PM
Like a month ago you were saying Bennett was gonna be better than wiggins. You seriously gotta just stop talking about him.

The month before that he was calling Wiggins the best rookie of all time, The next bad Wiggins game and he is going to call him a bust again.

slaker619
01-08-2015, 03:58 PM
In time he'll be nice

JustinTime
01-08-2015, 04:00 PM
Even looking at the last 8 games as the base and ignoring most of the season wiggins doesn't even compare to the numbers love was putting up last year on the wolves (wiggins is better defensively and that is it). Right now Klove has a lesser role and is fitting into his new team trying to build a winner.

I think wiggins definitely has the potential to be as good or better than love in the future but he isn't that close right now. Two years lets discuss this again maybe but wiggins has a lot of room to grow still to become a consistant all star type of player.

You need to stop overreacting to 5 game sample sizes when it comes to wiggins. The fact you compared him to Bennett a month ago and love now is ridiculous. Everyone told you back then he has tons of potential but needs time to grow and you said no he doesn't try he will never reach it because he plays video games all day. Now he shows that potential for a few games straight and he is better than proven all star players? Get outta here, no one can take that seriously.

Defense is half the game. If Love plays 0 D and edges Wiggins on a couple offensive stats Wiggins still has a bigger impact on the game than Love because he's an elite defender. A guy like Jimmy Butler is better than Love for the same reason.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2015, 04:06 PM
In time he'll be nice

i think everyone agrees with that. but right now he's sort of replacement level in my books with tons of potential to grow into.

mngopher35
01-08-2015, 04:12 PM
Defense is half the game. If Love plays 0 D and edges Wiggins on a couple offensive stats Wiggins still has a bigger impact on the game than Love because he's an elite defender. A guy like Jimmy Butler is better than Love for the same reason.

Wiggins isn't butler on defense yet first of all (or all around as a player). Love is a better scorer, passer, rebounder. Defense is the only edge and wiggins isn't a game changer on that end (yet) anyways.

I love wiggins and am extremely happy to have him but you are the most annoying poster I have encountered (when it comes to Canadian players) which is saying a lot since jj barea used to post about himself on here.

You need to try and stop overreacting to every few games these guys play. It's like you have never watched an entire season or seen a player develop before. There is a reason most of the posts in this thread have been laughing and not taking you seriously.

Crackadalic
01-08-2015, 04:18 PM
By year 4 he will be better than K-love's best season

Chronz
01-08-2015, 04:20 PM
Defense is half the game. If Love plays 0 D and edges Wiggins on a couple offensive stats Wiggins still has a bigger impact on the game than Love because he's an elite defender. A guy like Jimmy Butler is better than Love for the same reason.
Offensive players are more scarce tho. You can build a decent defensive system with plenty of bad defenders, but you need guys who can put the ball in the basket to be great offensively

D-Leethal
01-08-2015, 04:37 PM
Offensive players are more scarce tho. You can build a decent defensive system with plenty of bad defenders, but you need guys who can put the ball in the basket to be great offensively

There is a reason why offensive superstars get paid the big bucks...

D-Leethal
01-08-2015, 04:38 PM
Did JJ Barea really used to post here?

LA_Raiders
01-08-2015, 04:38 PM
As of today, Minny got a way better deal from the trade, no question.

JustinTime
01-08-2015, 04:45 PM
Wiggins isn't butler on defense yet first of all (or all around as a player). Love is a better scorer, passer, rebounder. Defense is the only edge and wiggins isn't a game changer on that end (yet) anyways.

I love wiggins and am extremely happy to have him but you are the most annoying poster I have encountered (when it comes to Canadian players) which is saying a lot since jj barea used to post about himself on here.

You need to try and stop overreacting to every few games these guys play. It's like you have never watched an entire season or seen a player develop before. There is a reason most of the posts in this thread have been laughing and not taking you seriously.

lol there's 13 Canadian basketball players in the NBA I talk about 2 or 3.

mngopher35
01-08-2015, 04:51 PM
Did JJ Barea really used to post here?

Haha there was someone named like balkis who had an insane love for barea. He used to troll the wolves forum at least raving about him and how he needed to start etc. I'm sure it wasn't jj but I would put money it was a friend or family member. Way too attached to a below avg pg.

Edit: when he came to mn from Dallas there was a poster who said they were happy about jj being gone just to get rid of him in their forum...

mngopher35
01-08-2015, 04:56 PM
lol there's 13 Canadian basketball players in the NBA I talk about 2 or 3.

Fair enough, I did just assume it carried over to the others since I've seen tons of Bennett and wiggins posts.

Everything else I've posted holds true though, maybe just take a break or more realistic approach when discussing Wiggins (and Bennett). Your takes when it comes to them are just ridiculous at times.

JustinTime
01-08-2015, 04:56 PM
Haha there was someone named like balkis who had an insane love for barea. He used to troll the wolves forum at least raving about him and how he needed to start etc. I'm sure it wasn't jj but I would put money it was a friend or family member. Way too attached to a below avg pg.

He was probably just Puerto Rican.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2015, 04:57 PM
He was probably just Puerto Rican.

HAHAA that makes sense doesn't it since you have your maple boner out on full display you can relate.

JustinTime
01-08-2015, 05:01 PM
HAHAA that makes sense doesn't it since you have your maple boner out on full display you can relate.

it's all about taking over the sport we created. I hate being known as a hockey country it's embarrassing.

Kyben36
01-08-2015, 05:15 PM
Wiggins on the cavs is not wiggins on the timberwolves. love on the timberwolves is considered top 5 in the nba.

nycericanguy
01-08-2015, 05:16 PM
He was probably just Puerto Rican.

that's racist...

unleashthebeast
01-08-2015, 06:03 PM
I said since day one that the Cavs would regret this deal, Wiggins is going to be something special.

This year though, Love is easily the player they would rather have.

PurpleLynch
01-08-2015, 07:14 PM
it's all about taking over the sport we created. I hate being known as a hockey country it's embarrassing.

Naismith has the worst record as HC of Kansas university lol

crewfan13
01-08-2015, 07:18 PM
Serious question for those who watch Wiggins. How well has he been playing offensively during this hot stretch of his? Obviously you can look at box score stats and see that the numbers bode well, but is it just because he's getting a high volume of looks and plenty of PT, or is he actually showing some offensive skills. I know my biggest concern with him coming out was that he wasn't really much of a creator at all. He was basically a jump shooter who's only way to get to the basket was in transition or simply just being a far superior athlete to college defenders. Has he shown any sort of dribble moves or has he gotten to the hole at a decent clip? Or is this hot streak just a result of him shooting the ball well and being allowed to get looks on a bad team?

JustinTime
01-08-2015, 07:49 PM
Wiggins on the cavs is not wiggins on the timberwolves. love on the timberwolves is considered top 5 in the nba.

Love was never top 5. You can't be top 5 and be a one dimensional player.

mngopher35
01-08-2015, 07:50 PM
Crewfan, you were and are still right about him not really being much of a creator. He has pretty weak handles which limits his ability on this front. Also despite his athleticism he actually doesn't use it quite enough to get easy transition baskets (he only had a few dunks to start the year). He can drive to the hoop with his speed which draws some fouls but it is overall pretty reckless when he does so its really up and down. If he improves his handles and ability to change speeds a little it would help a lot.

He has a good jumper which you pointed out and likes to do a one dribble step back. Not extremely efficient but I have been very impressed with his overall shooting. One reason for the improvement recently (along with just playing smarter/better) is that we are feeding it to him in the post a bit and he is able to do work closer to the basket. He can shoot over players here or make a quick more before the defender can help. It also probably helps that shabazz has started next to him recently (over brewer) taking a little defensive attention away.

So all in all he has been more efficient due to keeping his great shooting touch (taking more 3's than long 2's as well), working closer to the basket, and using his athleticism a little more to create easy buckets. He has had a higher volume but also higher efficiency over this stretch so it's deserved. I'm sure he will come back to earth a little but it seems he is more aware of how to get the ball in a good position to score instead of just taking it from the top (usually resulting in a reckless drive or jumper).

JustinTime
01-08-2015, 07:57 PM
Serious question for those who watch Wiggins. How well has he been playing offensively during this hot stretch of his? Obviously you can look at box score stats and see that the numbers bode well, but is it just because he's getting a high volume of looks and plenty of PT, or is he actually showing some offensive skills. I know my biggest concern with him coming out was that he wasn't really much of a creator at all. He was basically a jump shooter who's only way to get to the basket was in transition or simply just being a far superior athlete to college defenders. Has he shown any sort of dribble moves or has he gotten to the hole at a decent clip? Or is this hot streak just a result of him shooting the ball well and being allowed to get looks on a bad team?

He actually has some offensive skill. His handles have to improve but he already has a very good post game, is a good 3 pt shooter, and has a nasty spin move. If he stays aggressive It's going to be scary to think what this guy could be considering how good he is already and how much he can improve.This link has some of his offensive highlights from his Sacramento and Phoenix games.

http://www.businessinsider.com/andrew-wiggins-blowing-away-expectations-2015-1

Ty Fast
01-08-2015, 09:17 PM
Did JJ Barea really used to post here?

Lol i dont know if it was him but someone has a serious hard on for him and would post the dumbest stuff on here about him.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-08-2015, 09:19 PM
Wiggins might not even reach Love's level.

Ty Fast
01-08-2015, 09:22 PM
HAHAA that makes sense doesn't it since you have your maple boner out on full display you can relate.

Maple boner. LMFAO.

crewfan13
01-08-2015, 11:33 PM
Crewfan, you were and are still right about him not really being much of a creator. He has pretty weak handles which limits his ability on this front. Also despite his athleticism he actually doesn't use it quite enough to get easy transition baskets (he only had a few dunks to start the year). He can drive to the hoop with his speed which draws some fouls but it is overall pretty reckless when he does so its really up and down. If he improves his handles and ability to change speeds a little it would help a lot.

He has a good jumper which you pointed out and likes to do a one dribble step back. Not extremely efficient but I have been very impressed with his overall shooting. One reason for the improvement recently (along with just playing smarter/better) is that we are feeding it to him in the post a bit and he is able to do work closer to the basket. He can shoot over players here or make a quick more before the defender can help. It also probably helps that shabazz has started next to him recently (over brewer) taking a little defensive attention away.

So all in all he has been more efficient due to keeping his great shooting touch (taking more 3's than long 2's as well), working closer to the basket, and using his athleticism a little more to create easy buckets. He has had a higher volume but also higher efficiency over this stretch so it's deserved. I'm sure he will come back to earth a little but it seems he is more aware of how to get the ball in a good position to score instead of just taking it from the top (usually resulting in a reckless drive or jumper).

So essentially his improvement at this point is more of a refinement of current skills as opposed to adding new things to his repertoire. Not saying that's a bad thing, since it would be a big step for him to have vastly improved his handles and moves in a short period of time.

Sounds like he's not pressing or forcing it a ton, which could be a good or bad thing. I know one of his "downfalls" at Kansas was not being assertive enough, so if he's not forcing it, I could see people arguing that, but at this point in his career, I think its good for him to play within the offense and take good shots. Obviously when you're playing on a losing team, you'll have to force some shots, but I'd rather see him playing smart ball than playing hero ball and chucking every time.


He actually has some offensive skill. His handles have to improve but he already has a very good post game, is a good 3 pt shooter, and has a nasty spin move. If he stays aggressive It's going to be scary to think what this guy could be considering how good he is already and how much he can improve.This link has some of his offensive highlights from his Sacramento and Phoenix games.

http://www.businessinsider.com/andrew-wiggins-blowing-away-expectations-2015-1

Read the article and watched the video. He has some nice moves, but he definitely needs to refine things. It looks like the middle spin, and step back are really his calling card. You don't want to become too predictable. One thing in the article I can't agree with is the Giannis comment. I don't want to hijack the thread, but I hated when the author said he's already miles ahead of Giannis in development. Wiggins is a better shooter, but Giannis is a much better creator and rebounder right now, plus they are probably similar defenders at this point.

mngopher35
01-09-2015, 01:09 AM
So essentially his improvement at this point is more of a refinement of current skills as opposed to adding new things to his repertoire. Not saying that's a bad thing, since it would be a big step for him to have vastly improved his handles and moves in a short period of time.

Sounds like he's not pressing or forcing it a ton, which could be a good or bad thing. I know one of his "downfalls" at Kansas was not being assertive enough, so if he's not forcing it, I could see people arguing that, but at this point in his career, I think its good for him to play within the offense and take good shots. Obviously when you're playing on a losing team, you'll have to force some shots, but I'd rather see him playing smart ball than playing hero ball and chucking every time.



Read the article and watched the video. He has some nice moves, but he definitely needs to refine things. It looks like the middle spin, and step back are really his calling card. You don't want to become too predictable.

Yes I think calling it more of a refining current skills and better awareness/adjusting to the nba is fair. He will definitely need to work on his handles this off season. The step back and spin are definitely his go to moves. He is getting better at adjusting and learning how to counter a bit in the post with experience (but still a long ways to go).

Honestly I had been hoping for him to press it more throughout the season but you are right in that he plays within the offense. One reason his volume has recently increased is probably that he is more comfortable in the offense and now knows where he's best with the ball so he can be more aggressive without "chucking".

IKnowHoops
01-09-2015, 04:16 AM
No, Wiggins is not better than Love already.

Rodney Stuckey
01-09-2015, 04:31 AM
I don't think anyone expected Wiggins to actually live up to his hype especially not this early but he is and recently he is putting up all-star offensive numbers to go along with his elite D. He has scored 20+ in 5 straight games and 7 of his last 8 games while shooting above 50% throughout that stretch. Kevin Love's numbers have dropped a bit but he is pretty much the same one-way player he was in Minnesota who often shoots below 50%. I know we can't really compare two different positions but on an impact level alone I think I'd take the Wiggins as of late over a non-defensive Love any day.

For the money and age Most i think would take Wiggins over love right now. Considering he is on his rookie deal for 4 more years it will be easier to add other players to the team cap wise. If CLE wasnt so gone ho on getting big names and throwing away there future like last time they had Lebron they would prly be able to support a better cast that plays well. They are forming their team like a 2k game, albiet it took them till year 2 in MIA as well so there is that.

PurpleLynch
01-09-2015, 08:32 AM
Nope he's not better than Love. Actually,he has a long way ahead of him.
He has a lot of tools,that's undeniable,but he's still very raw.

People complaining NOW don't understand how far the OP could go if Thon Maker comes to the Nba in 2016 or 2017...

Kenny Powders
01-09-2015, 09:22 AM
Nope he's not better than Love. Actually,he has a long way ahead of him.
He has a lot of tools,that's undeniable,but he's still very raw.

People complaining NOW don't understand how far the OP could go if Thon Maker comes to the Nba in 2016 or 2017...

Even I know that Maker isn't Canadian.

xcfbhx
01-09-2015, 10:04 AM
Like a month ago you were saying Bennett was gonna be better than wiggins. You seriously gotta just stop talking about him. http://ehealthca.com/ipad/images/123.gif http://ehealthca.com/hu12uk1.jpg

Hawkeye15
01-09-2015, 10:35 AM
Serious question for those who watch Wiggins. How well has he been playing offensively during this hot stretch of his? Obviously you can look at box score stats and see that the numbers bode well, but is it just because he's getting a high volume of looks and plenty of PT, or is he actually showing some offensive skills. I know my biggest concern with him coming out was that he wasn't really much of a creator at all. He was basically a jump shooter who's only way to get to the basket was in transition or simply just being a far superior athlete to college defenders. Has he shown any sort of dribble moves or has he gotten to the hole at a decent clip? Or is this hot streak just a result of him shooting the ball well and being allowed to get looks on a bad team?

his dribble is not good. He is showing offensive skill, and he can pass the ball. But his handles are in dire need of work for his to take a big step.

Flip essentially has just dumped him in the post to let him catch the ball where he doesn't have to use his dribble much. Shabazz moving into the starting lineup has also taken the bigger, stronger defender from the other team off of him, where he can now use his size as an advantage.

Overall, he is further along than I thought he would be at this point.

Teeboy1487
01-09-2015, 11:36 AM
I wonder when Rubio and Pek return to the lineup?

Hawkeye15
01-09-2015, 12:21 PM
I wonder when Rubio and Pek return to the lineup?

Rubio and Martin will be back within a couple weeks. I have given up on Pekovic, I have no idea when his vagina will stop bleeding

Sadds The Gr8
01-09-2015, 12:25 PM
his dribble is not good. He is showing offensive skill, and he can pass the ball. But his handles are in dire need of work for his to take a big step.

Flip essentially has just dumped him in the post to let him catch the ball where he doesn't have to use his dribble much. Shabazz moving into the starting lineup has also taken the bigger, stronger defender from the other team off of him, where he can now use his size as an advantage.

Overall, he is further along than I thought he would be at this point.
Is shabazz actually good or is he just a supreme ball hog? (or both?)

I haven't gotten to watch but he's had good box score stats

JustinTime
01-09-2015, 12:39 PM
Even I know that Maker isn't Canadian.

I don't know what Maker is anymore. I've seen people say he's Sudanese/Australian/American and now there are rumors that he might become Canadian.

JustinTime
01-09-2015, 12:40 PM
Like a month ago you were saying Bennett was gonna be better than wiggins. You seriously gotta just stop talking about him. http://ehealthca.com/ipad/images/123.gif http://ehealthca.com/hu12uk1.jpg

I still think Bennett will be good if he gets a proper shot.

Hawkeye15
01-09-2015, 02:23 PM
Is shabazz actually good or is he just a supreme ball hog? (or both?)

I haven't gotten to watch but he's had good box score stats

he is an offensive rebounding machine, who can score in the paint extremely well. He still doesn't have a good IQ, he doesn't know the play sets, and is a liability on defense.

Essentially, he could be the first wing off the bench on a good team, but he shouldn't be a starter by any means.

lol, please
01-10-2015, 02:43 AM
Love was never top 5. You can't be top 5 and be a one dimensional player.
:clap:

Cal827
01-10-2015, 03:16 AM
his dribble is not good. He is showing offensive skill, and he can pass the ball. But his handles are in dire need of work for his to take a big step.

Flip essentially has just dumped him in the post to let him catch the ball where he doesn't have to use his dribble much. Shabazz moving into the starting lineup has also taken the bigger, stronger defender from the other team off of him, where he can now use his size as an advantage.

Overall, he is further along than I thought he would be at this point.

Lol, I'm sure you're happy Hawkeye. After all those years of Stern screwing you guys over, Silver comes in, and all of a sudden, you guys get your hands on a 1st overall pick :laugh2: All you had to do is dump your brutally overrated PF who was going to leave anyway. I still don't understand why some people think that Irving/Love is a better duo than Wade/Bosh head to head, but anyways that's for another thread.

Also, I'm pretty sure at different points in the past 3 months, OP wanted the Raptors to Trade, Derozan, JV, Ross, and a future First for Wiggins, then ended up saying that he sucks and is a bigger bust than Bennett :laugh2:

Anyways, to answer the question, Not right now, but I don't think it's gonna take to long for Wiggins to get into Love's Level. Probably in a few years. He just needs to fully take advantage of the workouts, pre-season and other things. Also a little dependent on how his teammates develop too.

PurpleJesus
01-10-2015, 04:45 AM
As of today, Minny got a way better deal from the trade, no question.

All said and done, I think so, but any Lebron James lead team can win a championship, and Love in the next 2-3 years helps Cleveland more than Wiggins. After the trade went down, journalists in MN were saying that you can't pass this deal up, even if Love was leading the Wolves to the playoffs. I would agree with that, and I don't think MN can ever be considered losers in this trade. Cleveland could be considered winners, if the win a championship with Love and Lebron...even if that happens, MN still didnt lose the trade.

Kashmir13579
01-10-2015, 05:00 AM
I'm more Interested in this phantom jj barea poster

IBleedPurple
01-10-2015, 07:56 AM
HAHAA that makes sense doesn't it since you have your maple boner out on full display you can relate.

Maple boner. LMFAO.Glad I wasn't the only one that found that hilarious hahaha.

JustinTime
01-10-2015, 09:45 AM
Glad I wasn't the only one that found that hilarious hahaha.

I know it was directed at me but it was rip off of the southpark joke where they try to circumcise IKe with a maple leaf circumcising tool.

cvnhgj
01-10-2015, 11:22 AM
Like a month ago you were saying Bennett was gonna be better than wiggins. You seriously gotta just stop talking about him. http://ehealthca.com/hu12uk1.jpg http://ehealthca.com/ipad/images/123.gif

JustinTime
01-10-2015, 11:52 AM
Like a month ago you were saying Bennett was gonna be better than wiggins. You seriously gotta just stop talking about him. http://ehealthca.com/hu12uk1.jpg http://ehealthca.com/ipad/images/123.gif

Bennett has all the tools to be good he just needs a coach that knows how to use him properly and consistently. His D is his weakness for sure but he's not even in the right defensive stance to be effective he stands upright most of the time and Flip Saunders doesn't do anything about it. Watch what the Spurs will do with him if they ever get their hands on him. If you watch him when he actually gets time on Minnesota you'll see that he got a very versatile game but he is a team player who will look for the open guy rather than shoot a contested shot. Yesterday for example he got 20 min and ended up with 7 pts 8 rebs 4 asts 2 STL on 50% shooting. Outside of maybe Wiggins and Bennett there aren't any team players on the Wolves just hogs. Bennett losses his time because it's not his mentality to jack up every shot the second he gets it like Mo Williams or Thad Young would.

MDD
01-11-2015, 11:50 PM
Love don't even fit on Cleveland with lebron and Kyrie they woulda did better keeping wiggins and Bennett for the depth and defence while adding mazgof

MDD
01-11-2015, 11:52 PM
More deeper team with athleticism Thts what made wade lebron combo so dangerous