PDA

View Full Version : Is Kevin Love overrated???



GiantsSwaGG
01-08-2015, 10:50 AM
In Minny he posted up superstar numbers and points and rebounding, every in PSD labeled him a superstar and rightfully so, but now in a better situation he's barely a star. Averaging 17 and 10 and with LeBron out he's not doing that well as the team lost to the Sixers and are 2 games over .500, I know he got a pass because his team in Minny were horrible but now he has a top 10 PG and the best player in the league and instead of the Cavs taking over the East, they're not even the best team in their conference and teams like the Bucks are a game back from being 2nd place in that division.

So is Kevin Love overrated? He's supposed to be a superstar but it's not translating to wins for the Cavs

valade16
01-08-2015, 11:08 AM
I don't know if he's overrated anymore simply because he seems to be forgotten in Cleveland. Who still thinks he's the best PF in the league?

I will say the Cavs loss to the 76ers the other day when Kevin Love had 28 pts and 19 rebds made me think "where have I seen that before?" Lose to a bad team but put up great stats, vintage Kevin Love.

D-Leethal
01-08-2015, 11:11 AM
Like many other superstars, he needs the ball to be effective. Bosh was right when he said it was gonna be tough for Love. When you barely touch the ball its not easy to find a rhythm and hit your open shots. Its why these "Big 3s" struggle when the pieces aren't prime fits, and when the pieces all don't bring something unique to the table.

I think the question is: Does Kevin Love stay? He does not look happy at all in Cleveland. I think it takes an ECF run at least to keep him there and I'm not sure that guarantees him to stay.

SilverFalco8
01-08-2015, 11:12 AM
I don't know if he's overrated anymore simply because he seems to be forgotten in Cleveland. Who still thinks he's the best PF in the league?

I will say the Cavs loss to the 76ers the other day when Kevin Love had 28 pts and 19 rebds made me think "where have I seen that before?" Lose to a bad team but put up great stats, vintage Kevin Love.

I say the best PF in the league is

Duncan
AD
Ibaka

in no particular order.

2-ONE-5
01-08-2015, 11:17 AM
I say the best PF in the league is

Duncan
AD
Ibaka

in no particular order.

you mean

Griffin
Davis
Ibaka

goingfor28
01-08-2015, 11:23 AM
Yes. He put up great numbers on a garbage team.

Crackadalic
01-08-2015, 11:25 AM
Love is gone after this season. He will pull a Dwight Howard right now. He might just go out west and go to the lakers

SilverFalco8
01-08-2015, 11:40 AM
you mean

Griffin
Davis
Ibaka

Yeah, Griffin could be in there too.

valade16
01-08-2015, 11:43 AM
^ That's my point. Now when people talk about the best PF in the league you hear AD, Duncan, Griffin, Ibaka, even LMA, over Love.

So how can he be overrated when people barely think he's top 5 anymore? Maybe he was overrated, but he's not anymore.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2015, 11:46 AM
Love is still a great player. It's tough for a great big to be on winning efforts when the guys who control the ball most are not great decision makers or floor generals. it's not a reflection on him at all. it's a limitation of his position.

KnicksorBust
01-08-2015, 12:25 PM
In Minny he posted up superstar numbers and points and rebounding, every in PSD labeled him a superstar and rightfully so, but now in a better situation he's barely a star. Averaging 17 and 10 and with LeBron out he's not doing that well as the team lost to the Sixers and are 2 games over .500, I know he got a pass because his team in Minny were horrible but now he has a top 10 PG and the best player in the league and instead of the Cavs taking over the East, they're not even the best team in their conference and teams like the Bucks are a game back from being 2nd place in that division.

So is Kevin Love overrated? He's supposed to be a superstar but it's not translating to wins for the Cavs

No. Werent they rolling when Bron and Kyrie were both healthy? Give the team a season to gel and watch out.

CityofChaos
01-08-2015, 12:41 PM
Everyone in PSD? Lol I've always thought he was overrated.

xnick5757
01-08-2015, 12:42 PM
He's still a top 3 PF in the league for me.


He is getting a lot less shots in Cleveland than he did in Minny.

13.3 FGA vs 18.5
4.7 3PA vs 6.6
5.5 FTA vs 8.2


But he is still scoring at a great clip

Jamiecballer
01-08-2015, 12:48 PM
this is such a weird question because his numbers are basically the same, just reduced according to usage.

D-Leethal
01-08-2015, 12:59 PM
this is such a weird question because his numbers are basically the same, just reduced according to usage.

The numbers are lying to you. Do you see the same Kevin Love out there?

bucketss
01-08-2015, 01:02 PM
considering he he fell to third option, his #'s are actually pretty good.

beasted86
01-08-2015, 01:25 PM
I will say the Cavs loss to the 76ers the other day when Kevin Love had 28 pts and 19 rebds made me think "where have I seen that before?" Lose to a bad team but put up great stats, vintage Kevin Love.

Perfectly said. Love is a very good player, not a great player, not top 10.

KnicksorBust
01-08-2015, 01:32 PM
No. Werent they rolling when Bron and Kyrie were both healthy? Give the team a season to gel and watch out.

The Cavs were 18-11 (13-4 over there last 17 games) when Kyrie went down and then LeBron went down... This team will be phenomenal when they finally have time to build chemistry together. Love's numbers will dip as he plays the KG/Bosh role of his big 3 but that doesn't mean he's not just as deadly from 3pt, down low, or as an outlet passer. I'd still take him over almost every PF in the with the exception of maybe AD and Griffin.

aLau10
01-08-2015, 01:49 PM
I can't seem to comprehend how you can take love out of the conversation like that. The man is a 3rd option and by that Kyrie doesnt even pass the damn ball!

As KoB said, give them a season they'll be legit next year. Will they win the chip? I HOPE NOT, because I freaking hate the bandwagoners and I dont wanna hear all the bragging, but they definitely have a good chance at it. Just let Love get a hold of whats required of him in that team.

nickdymez
01-08-2015, 01:54 PM
you mean

Griffin
Davis
Ibaka

You mean

Griffin
Davis
Aldredge

Jamiecballer
01-08-2015, 02:12 PM
The numbers are lying to you. Do you see the same Kevin Love out there?

pretty close. a neutered and perhaps slightly disinterested (understandable all things considered) Kevin Love, yes.

Hawkeye15
01-08-2015, 02:16 PM
Like many other superstars, he needs the ball to be effective. Bosh was right when he said it was gonna be tough for Love. When you barely touch the ball its not easy to find a rhythm and hit your open shots. Its why these "Big 3s" struggle when the pieces aren't prime fits, and when the pieces all don't bring something unique to the table.

I think the question is: Does Kevin Love stay? He does not look happy at all in Cleveland. I think it takes an ECF run at least to keep him there and I'm not sure that guarantees him to stay.

yep. When you just smash together formed superstars, it doesn't work the way most try and say it does. That is why it's always better to grow as a team, and the stars will emerge, but with a chemistry. LeBron bashers never recognize that, they just look at the names and claim he is getting more help than anyone ever has. Failing to realize that isn't how it works.

Love has no idea where he is in the pecking order, and he is playing like it. His usage is the lowest it has been since he was coming off the bench as a 2nd year pro. The few times I have watched the Cavs, he is told to sit in the corner as a floor spreader. He is not only not being utilized properly, the fact is, if you don't have Love as an offensive focal point, then why even have him? He sure as hell isn't going to lift your defense.

I wouldn't be surprised at all, barring the Cavs making a deep postseason run, if he bolts.

Chronz
01-08-2015, 02:36 PM
It's year one, he can do better and has in the past when he was a backup for a bad team.

He's arguably a superstar but I've always felt his lack of defense would make his impact questionable.

He's one of the only guys where i think If he's your number 2 you're in good shape, but if he's you're number 3, it's overkill unless you can hide his deficiencies ( Mozgof will).

D-Leethal
01-08-2015, 02:37 PM
pretty close. a neutered and perhaps slightly disinterested (understandable all things considered) Kevin Love, yes.

LOL, I see the same dude.

SteBO
01-08-2015, 02:38 PM
Kevin Love is a great offensive player...that's about it.

D-Leethal
01-08-2015, 02:40 PM
yep. When you just smash together formed superstars, it doesn't work the way most try and say it does. That is why it's always better to grow as a team, and the stars will emerge, but with a chemistry. LeBron bashers never recognize that, they just look at the names and claim he is getting more help than anyone ever has. Failing to realize that isn't how it works.

Love has no idea where he is in the pecking order, and he is playing like it. His usage is the lowest it has been since he was coming off the bench as a 2nd year pro. The few times I have watched the Cavs, he is told to sit in the corner as a floor spreader. He is not only not being utilized properly, the fact is, if you don't have Love as an offensive focal point, then why even have him? He sure as hell isn't going to lift your defense.

I wouldn't be surprised at all, barring the Cavs making a deep postseason run, if he bolts.

Seems to be similar to the Dwight situation in LA. I think he will feel a lot of outside pressure to return based on what Cleveland sacrificed to get him, having to leave a team with one of the GOATs, but based on what I can see, his heart is not there, and he does not appear to want to stay. Will he cave to the pressure to appease everyone else or do what he feels is best for him?

D-Leethal
01-08-2015, 02:41 PM
That said, all it takes is one winning streak to put a smile back on everyones face and start singing kumbaya around the fire again.

Hawkeye15
01-08-2015, 02:42 PM
Seems to be similar to the Dwight situation in LA. I think he will feel a lot of outside pressure to return based on what Cleveland sacrificed to get him, having to leave a team with one of the GOATs, but based on what I can see, his heart is not there, and he does not appear to want to stay. Will he cave to the pressure to appease everyone else or do what he feels is best for him?

Love needs to also look in the mirror. What does he really want? To be the lead dog, and fill the stat sheet? Or to make some sacrifices, and buy into doing everything he can, even if it's the unglamorous ****, to win games, like he claims he wants to do?

Up to him really.

PurpleLynch
01-08-2015, 02:46 PM
Kevin Love is in a right spot to win,not to shine. He won't have his old numbers,but he's almost reaching is old stats adjusting his usage.
They lack chemistry and this is the biggest problem imo. I think that the Waiter's trade will have a positive effect on them,plus Mozgov will definitely improve their defense.

valade16
01-08-2015, 02:49 PM
pretty close. a neutered and perhaps slightly disinterested (understandable all things considered) Kevin Love, yes.

Same stats? What stats are you looking at?

PER:
last year: 26.9
this year: 18.9

TS%:
last year: .591
this year: .563

WS/48:
last year: .245
this year: .154

Ortg:
last year: 120
this year: 114

His advanced line has plummeted. His stats aren't even close to where they were in Minny...

Jamiecballer
01-08-2015, 02:56 PM
Same stats? What stats are you looking at?

PER:
last year: 26.9
this year: 18.9

TS%:
last year: .591
this year: .563

WS/48:
last year: .245
this year: .154

Ortg:
last year: 120
this year: 114

His advanced line has plummeted. His stats aren't even close to where they were in Minny...

he's not going to achieve a similar PER or WS/48 in his current environment.

valade16
01-08-2015, 03:03 PM
he's not going to achieve a similar PER or WS/48 in his current environment.

what about his shooting %'s?

You said he is posting the same stats. That is factually incorrect. What stat is he posting that is the same? Even his Per36 and 100poss. stats are down markedly from Minny.

Saying his drop in stats is expected or normal given his new role could be arguable, but saying he has the same stats is not, because he doesn't.

Vee-Rex
01-08-2015, 03:16 PM
Kevin Love has played 6 total games without Lebron James.

1 of those games he got hurt and played only 24 minutes because he wasn't feeling well.

In the other 5 games, he has averaged 24 ppg and 13 rbpg. In those 5 games, he is shooting about 50% from the field.

Please watch games and make your evaluations based on that instead of frantically running to the message boards and making wild assumptions just to hate on a player/team. Love is obviously trying to learn how to play with someone who is as ball dominant as Lebron.

Now if you want to base overrated assumptions off Love's defense then go for it. Everyone and their grandmas already knew Love is poor defensively before the Cavs even made the trade. But to imply that he's overrated because of a drop in number production this year is fairly idiotic.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2015, 03:21 PM
what about his shooting %'s?

You said he is posting the same stats. That is factually incorrect. What stat is he posting that is the same? Even his Per36 and 100poss. stats are down markedly from Minny.

Saying his drop in stats is expected or normal given his new role could be arguable, but saying he has the same stats is not, because he doesn't.

well good thing i said basically the same, not the same.

look, he doesn't have a single number that i can see that isn't within reach of his career norms with the exception of PPG and RPG.

shooting % is down .14, 3pt % is down .17. all it takes is one hot week and we could be talking about +.14 and +.17 instead. i think we all know that as a team they are struggling to get things sorted out so its not even worth mentioning at this point.

the scoring is just inevitable. and the rebounding is probably a combination of disjointed team play + he's gone from a team that always played at one of the faster paces to one of the slowest.

i'm trying to judge him based on factors he can actually control and not overreacting to minor variations in shooting.

Jeffy25
01-08-2015, 03:26 PM
I don't know if he's overrated anymore simply because he seems to be forgotten in Cleveland. Who still thinks he's the best PF in the league?

I will say the Cavs loss to the 76ers the other day when Kevin Love had 28 pts and 19 rebds made me think "where have I seen that before?" Lose to a bad team but put up great stats, vintage Kevin Love.

Guy has basically the same stats in wins and in loses (17 PPG, 10 TRB)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01/splits/2015/

lol, please
01-08-2015, 03:27 PM
In Minny he posted up superstar numbers and points and rebounding, every in PSD labeled him a superstar and rightfully so, but now in a better situation he's barely a star. Averaging 17 and 10 and with LeBron out he's not doing that well as the team lost to the Sixers and are 2 games over .500, I know he got a pass because his team in Minny were horrible but now he has a top 10 PG and the best player in the league and instead of the Cavs taking over the East, they're not even the best team in their conference and teams like the Bucks are a game back from being 2nd place in that division.

So is Kevin Love overrated? He's supposed to be a superstar but it's not translating to wins for the Cavs
Stopped reading when you said "and rightfully so". It's called being wrong and being shortsighted.

GiantsSwaGG
01-08-2015, 03:27 PM
Kevin Love is a great offensive player...that's about it.

So my thing is how is he a superstar when he's only an offensive threat? He's basically another Carmelo but a better rebounder

valade16
01-08-2015, 03:28 PM
Kevin Love has played 6 total games without Lebron James.

1 of those games he got hurt and played only 24 minutes because he wasn't feeling well.

In the other 5 games, he has averaged 24 ppg and 13 rbpg. In those 5 games, he is shooting about 50% from the field.

Please watch games and make your evaluations based on that instead of frantically running to the message boards and making wild assumptions just to hate on a player/team. Love is obviously trying to learn how to play with someone who is as ball dominant as Lebron.

Now if you want to base overrated assumptions off Love's defense then go for it. Everyone and their grandmas already knew Love is poor defensively before the Cavs even made the trade. But to imply that he's overrated because of a drop in number production this year is fairly idiotic.

What is the Cavs record during that time? Remember, Love's knock was he put up good numbers on losing teams.

GiantsSwaGG
01-08-2015, 03:28 PM
Stopped reading when you said "and rightfully so". It's called being wrong and being shortsighted.

Stopped reading once I saw the user name start with "LOL"

lol, please
01-08-2015, 03:29 PM
^ That's my point. Now when people talk about the best PF in the league you hear AD, Duncan, Griffin, Ibaka, even LMA, over Love.

So how can he be overrated when people barely think he's top 5 anymore? Maybe he was overrated, but he's not anymore.
If you call him a superstar then you overrate him immediately. By that logic every team has a superstar. People around here use the term superstar like they use the term ace in baseball. It's pathetic. Jordan, shaq, bird, wilt, those are superstars.

Jeffy25
01-08-2015, 03:30 PM
since LeBron has been out:

25.5 PPG, 12.5 TRB, .479 FG%, .350 3%, .577 TS%, 19.4 TRB%

18.3 FG attempts per game and 5 of them are 3 attempts

This is vintage Kevin Love. He gets to shoot when he isn't forced to be the third option, posting his old numbers

GiantsSwaGG
01-08-2015, 03:30 PM
Kevin Love has played 6 total games without Lebron James.

1 of those games he got hurt and played only 24 minutes because he wasn't feeling well.

In the other 5 games, he has averaged 24 ppg and 13 rbpg. In those 5 games, he is shooting about 50% from the field.

Please watch games and make your evaluations based on that instead of frantically running to the message boards and making wild assumptions just to hate on a player/team. Love is obviously trying to learn how to play with someone who is as ball dominant as Lebron.

Now if you want to base overrated assumptions off Love's defense then go for it. Everyone and their grandmas already knew Love is poor defensively before the Cavs even made the trade. But to imply that he's overrated because of a drop in number production this year is fairly idiotic.

who cares, why isn't that helping the Cavs win?

Monta Ellis average 24 PPG with the Warriors

He's putting these great number yet they're losing to teams like the Sixers.

lol, please
01-08-2015, 03:30 PM
Kevin Love is a great offensive player...that's about it.
Well said.

GiantsSwaGG
01-08-2015, 03:31 PM
since LeBron has been out:

25.5 PPG, 12.5 TRB, .479 FG%, .350 3%, .577 TS%, 19.4 TRB%

18.3 FG attempts per game and 5 of them are 3 attempts

This is vintage Kevin Love. He gets to shoot when he isn't forced to be the third option, posting his old numbers

But what's the Cavs record?

He did the same with the Wolves and couldn't get them to the playoffs. He's has a better team with the Cavs even without LeBron and they're losing

allday823
01-08-2015, 03:32 PM
How are ya'll gonna put Ibaka as a top 3 power forward in the league? He's averaging 14 and 7. Obviously he's good defensively but those numbers are severely overwhelming. Amare Stoudemire is averaging 13 and 7 and 29 out of 30 teams wouldnt touch him lol

Vee-Rex
01-08-2015, 03:33 PM
What is the Cavs record during that time? Remember, Love's knock was he put up good numbers on losing teams.

What does that have to do with my point?

My point is he's not overrated because of a drop in number production this year, as the OP was trying to imply. If you want to argue he's overrated because of poor defense or not being able to carry a team on his back and contend (what PF in the game can do this anyway?) then fair enough.

GiantsSwaGG
01-08-2015, 03:33 PM
And if I'm the Lakers why would I even consider signing Love to a max contract

Vee-Rex
01-08-2015, 03:35 PM
And if I'm the Lakers why would I even consider signing Love to a max contract

And if I'm Love why would I even consider going to the Lakers just to lose even more?

LOL PSD <---- my new phrase haha

Jeffy25
01-08-2015, 03:35 PM
What is the Cavs record during that time? Remember, Love's knock was he put up good numbers on losing teams.

Well, Kyrie didn't play in the Philadelphia game, and the Cavs suck outside of their big three, Love played that game alone. And then Kyrie was awful in the Charlotte and Dallas game, but good in the Houston game.

Jeffy25
01-08-2015, 03:37 PM
But what's the Cavs record?

He did the same with the Wolves and couldn't get them to the playoffs. He's has a better team with the Cavs even without LeBron and they're losing

If Kyrie played worth a damn, they would probably have won some games, 1-4 though. Love played alone in the Philly game, and Kyrie has been bad in every game but the Houston game, which is a top team in the game.

It's 5 games, but you can see what Love does when he gets to shoot the ball 18 times.

Jeffy25
01-08-2015, 03:40 PM
I don't see how Love could post up great numbers, but has some propensity to losing games.

Even when he takes 18 shots, that's only about 20-22% of his teams total shots....it's not like he is the only guy on the court or something, or he has some immunity to winning games or something.

You guys stick to narratives too easily. You can't win alone, and Love is a fantastic player....and the Cavs would be a lot better off if he got to shoot the ball 18 times, and Kyrie was shooting more in the 13 range with plenty of assists.

Shot breakdowns on this team should be

LeBron - 18
Love - 18
Kyrie - 14
Dion - 9
Thompson - 9
Varejo - 9
Marion - 5
Delladova - 5
Same as normal

Would improve the Cavs several points per game.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2015, 03:56 PM
I don't see how Love could post up great numbers, but has some propensity to losing games.

Even when he takes 18 shots, that's only about 20-22% of his teams total shots....it's not like he is the only guy on the court or something, or he has some immunity to winning games or something.

You guys stick to narratives too easily. You can't win alone, and Love is a fantastic player....and the Cavs would be a lot better off if he got to shoot the ball 18 times, and Kyrie was shooting more in the 13 range with plenty of assists.

Shot breakdowns on this team should be

LeBron - 18
Love - 18
Kyrie - 14
Dion - 9
Thompson - 9
Varejo - 9
Marion - 5
Delladova - 5
Same as normal

Would improve the Cavs several points per game.

did you forget that Waiters was traded for Smith and Shumpert

mngopher35
01-08-2015, 04:03 PM
did you forget that Waiters was traded for Smith and Shumpert

And varejao will be replaced by mozgov the rest of the year

Bowman53
01-08-2015, 04:05 PM
I don't think he's overrated. I just don't think he's a great fit playing third fiddle to Lebron and Kyrie Irving. That and David Blatt is not a very good coach yet.

Shareeb_omac2
01-08-2015, 04:07 PM
His offensive numbers dipped because of Kyrie Irving and Lebron James need the ball.

KingstonHawke
01-08-2015, 04:13 PM
Was NEVER a superstar, was ALWAYS overrated. Defense is 50% of the game. And for "some reason" we give guys like him and Nash a complete pass on being terrible at it. I love that he's a stretch four that can rebound, but I've always said I'd take Ibaka over him.

I saw the Wolves give up a crazy amount of fastbreak points because he was going all Rondo and selling out for offensive boards instead of getting back. You get 4 of them a game you look like superman, but in reality your man is scoring or assisting in transition.

If they would finally keep track of how many points/assist/rebounds you gave up I think we'd look at a few players completely differently. He'd be one of them, Nash would be another.

valade16
01-08-2015, 04:16 PM
I don't see how Love could post up great numbers, but has some propensity to losing games.

Even when he takes 18 shots, that's only about 20-22% of his teams total shots....it's not like he is the only guy on the court or something, or he has some immunity to winning games or something.

You guys stick to narratives too easily. You can't win alone, and Love is a fantastic player....and the Cavs would be a lot better off if he got to shoot the ball 18 times, and Kyrie was shooting more in the 13 range with plenty of assists.

Shot breakdowns on this team should be

LeBron - 18
Love - 18
Kyrie - 14
Dion - 9
Thompson - 9
Varejo - 9
Marion - 5
Delladova - 5
Same as normal

Would improve the Cavs several points per game.

It's not about Love not being a great player. It's that to say he's the best PF in the league (or like top 3) there should be an expectation he can lead a team to at least some semblance of success.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2015, 04:23 PM
It's not about Love not being a great player. It's that to say he's the best PF in the league (or like top 3) there should be an expectation he can lead a team to at least some semblance of success.

i'm starting to think he fits into the Melo category. great productivity, little else.

Chronz
01-08-2015, 04:24 PM
It's not about Love not being a great player. It's that to say he's the best PF in the league (or like top 3) there should be an expectation he can lead a team to at least some semblance of success.
He did so last year

Alayla
01-08-2015, 04:31 PM
No id say hes become underrated at this point much like bosh in miami we have seen this before and i still believe skills wise id take Love over any other 4 in the league.

GiantsSwaGG
01-08-2015, 04:33 PM
No id say hes become underrated at this point much like bosh in miami we have seen this before and i still believe skills wise id take Love over any other 4 in the league.

Bosh led teams to the playoffs before he signed with Miami, Love didn't

GiantsSwaGG
01-08-2015, 04:34 PM
I would actually take Bosh over Love

valade16
01-08-2015, 05:14 PM
He did so last year

What does that say about him when the best measure of success you can say he took his team to is 40-42?

valade16
01-08-2015, 05:16 PM
i'm starting to think he fits into the Melo category. great productivity, little else.

I've never thought of that. It's pretty much taken for granted that despite the quality numbers (even the quality advanced numbers) Melo's style is just not conducive to a winning team but when people say that of Love suddenly it's only the numbers that matter.

Either they're contradicting themselves in regards to Melo or to Love, and either way it's a contradiction.

GiantsSwaGG
01-08-2015, 05:19 PM
I've never thought of that. It's pretty much taken for granted that despite the quality numbers (even the quality advanced numbers) Melo's style is just not conducive to a winning team but when people say that of Love suddenly it's only the numbers that matter.

Either they're contradicting themselves in regards to Melo or to Love, and either way it's a contradiction.

I hate Melo but to his defense, he's lead teams to the playoffs even crappy ones with Toney Douglas as their starting PG, Love hasn't and he's suppose to be better than Melo

Jeffy25
01-08-2015, 05:38 PM
Bosh led teams to the playoffs before he signed with Miami, Love didn't

Bosh led teams to the playoffs?

In the East, Love in the West

In 06-07, the only year the Raptors were ever over .500 with Bosh, he had Ford and Calderon helping him. Those two had seasons better than any season that any of Love's team mates ever had.

The Raptors record with Bosh:
254-320

Love's record with the Wolves
125-239 and he started 272 of these 364 games, and was hurt in one of his biggest potential seasons there. Last year, the Wolves went 40-42, and had they been in the East, they would have been in the playoffs as the 8 seed instead of the Hawks.


Any other false narratives?

Jeffy25
01-08-2015, 05:41 PM
What does that say about him when the best measure of success you can say he took his team to is 40-42?

It's the same thing you can say about Bosh.......And people on here were critical saying that Bosh was the best PF in the game joining LeBron........yet, the Raptors were a below .500 team every year with Bosh except 06-07 when Calderon and Ford had career years.

BklynKnicks3
01-08-2015, 05:44 PM
No Lebron is making him better lol

Jeffy25
01-08-2015, 05:45 PM
I hate Melo but to his defense, he's lead teams to the playoffs even crappy ones with Toney Douglas as their starting PG, Love hasn't and he's suppose to be better than Melo

Because there is more than just the one player on the team!

And Love has spent his entire career in the very competitive West, Melo has been hanging out in the weaker East.

If Love had a guy like Tyson Chandler, think about how much better his teams would have been. J.R. Smith can assist in some of the scoring? They have Ama're?


Let's not act like the situations were equal.

BklynKnicks3
01-08-2015, 05:48 PM
Love is a great fantasy player

nycericanguy
01-08-2015, 05:55 PM
I've never thought of that. It's pretty much taken for granted that despite the quality numbers (even the quality advanced numbers) Melo's style is just not conducive to a winning team but when people say that of Love suddenly it's only the numbers that matter.

Either they're contradicting themselves in regards to Melo or to Love, and either way it's a contradiction.

Except Melo's DEN teams won 60% of their games in a STACKED western conference and made the playoffs every year and Melo never really had a second star either. Love's Wolves had like a 29% winning percentage.

Even in NY Melo's Knicks had close to a 60% winning percentage prior to these past 1.5 seasons.

lakerfan85
01-08-2015, 05:57 PM
Love would thrive in an offense like the Triangle..

Shlumpledink
01-08-2015, 05:58 PM
Definitely overrated. It is nearly identical to the Chris Bosh situation. Chris Bosh put up great numbers on a nothing team then was okay in a better situation.

I think Love is overrated when you think of him as the type of player to carry a team. He's good as a number 2 or 3. He can rebound and shoot a bit. He is a willing and capable passing bigman, but he is undersized and doesn't play defense well. He will never be a shot blocking threat, and his post game leaves much to be desired. He needs to be paired with a shot blocking bigman who could be a low post threat, and there aren't many of those anymore.

I like him but he is not a superstar.

IBleedPurple
01-08-2015, 06:07 PM
Like many other superstars, he needs the ball to be effective. Bosh was right when he said it was gonna be tough for Love. When you barely touch the ball its not easy to find a rhythm and hit your open shots. Its why these "Big 3s" struggle when the pieces aren't prime fits, and when the pieces all don't bring something unique to the table.

I think the question is: Does Kevin Love stay? He does not look happy at all in Cleveland. I think it takes an ECF run at least to keep him there and I'm not sure that guarantees him to stay.Agree. We knew his defense pre trade, and he is now a role player...unfortunately.

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-08-2015, 06:28 PM
In Minny he posted up superstar numbers and points and rebounding, every in PSD labeled him a superstar and rightfully so, but now in a better situation he's barely a star. Averaging 17 and 10 and with LeBron out he's not doing that well as the team lost to the Sixers and are 2 games over .500, I know he got a pass because his team in Minny were horrible but now he has a top 10 PG and the best player in the league and instead of the Cavs taking over the East, they're not even the best team in their conference and teams like the Bucks are a game back from being 2nd place in that division.

So is Kevin Love overrated? He's supposed to be a superstar but it's not translating to wins for the Cavs

No sir, any big man who plays with Lebron will take an immediate hit to his stats.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2015, 07:18 PM
No sir, any big man who plays with Lebron will take an immediate hit to his stats.
If he was an inefficient ball hog jump shooter they would thrive cleaning up all those misses.

Ty Fast
01-09-2015, 12:04 AM
But what's the Cavs record?

He did the same with the Wolves and couldn't get them to the playoffs. He's has a better team with the Cavs even without LeBron and they're losing

Plus theyre in the east. The west was stacked but the east is crap.

Tony_Starks
01-09-2015, 12:26 AM
I seriously think the only ones that put Love on a pedestal are stat geeks. The rest of us watching him saw that his defense was horrendous, he filled up a stat sheet on a garbage team with ZERO positive impact on wins. What he is doing now is just what I expected him to do: jack up some jumpers, make sure you don't defend anyone.....

basch152
01-09-2015, 01:08 AM
Except Melo's DEN teams won 60% of their games in a STACKED western conference and made the playoffs every year and Melo never really had a second star either. Love's Wolves had like a 29% winning percentage.

Even in NY Melo's Knicks had close to a 60% winning percentage prior to these past 1.5 seasons.

Wait, what?Never had a second star?

He had Iverson(albeit aging, but still scoring more than 20 a game), then got the floor general Chauncey scoring 20 a game and leading the team, and they had a whole bunch of solid players after them like Afflalo, jr smith, kenyon martin, nene, lawson, and birdman.

And don't try to say chaunceyw wasn't a star. He was one of the best team leaders in NBA history. If I'm starting a team, I take a 20 year old Chauncey before I even think of taking a 20 year old Melo.

Cracka2HI!
01-09-2015, 04:47 AM
Kevin Love is the latest player to have a dip numbers to get the PSD treatment. I've always thought Love is overrated. However it's getting to a point that he is becoming vastly underrated. On PSD anyway. So many people really believe he's a terrible basketball player now lol. The same thing happened to Blake early in his career. So many people thought he was so overrated and could only dunk that he was incredibly underrated by PSD. Despite being actually a bit overrated in reality.

goingfor28
01-09-2015, 04:49 AM
Love is gone after this season. He will pull a Dwight Howard right now. He might just go out west and go to the lakers
Agreed. I always thought the lakers would end up w a Love Westbrook duo. KD will bolt for the Wizards and Scott Brooks will finally be let go when they realize he's not a good coach.

MTar786
01-09-2015, 06:29 AM
If you call him a superstar then you overrate him immediately. By that logic every team has a superstar. People around here use the term superstar like they use the term ace in baseball. It's pathetic. Jordan, shaq, bird, wilt, those are superstars.

I completely agree with you here. Like imo.. harden is not a superstar. kobe was, lebron is, durant is, wade was etc

basch152
01-09-2015, 10:09 AM
I completely agree with you here. Like imo.. harden is not a superstar. kobe was, lebron is, durant is, wade was etc

I'd agree.

Only superstars in the NBA right now are Durant, Lebron, currey, and Davis.

All complete game changers.

nycericanguy
01-09-2015, 10:17 AM
Wait, what?Never had a second star?

He had Iverson(albeit aging, but still scoring more than 20 a game), then got the floor general Chauncey scoring 20 a game and leading the team, and they had a whole bunch of solid players after them like Afflalo, jr smith, kenyon martin, nene, lawson, and birdman.

And don't try to say chaunceyw wasn't a star. He was one of the best team leaders in NBA history. If I'm starting a team, I take a 20 year old Chauncey before I even think of taking a 20 year old Melo.

He had an aging AI for 1 full year and part of another.

Billups was the closest thing he had to a 2nd star, but he was past his prime too, like 32-36 years old in his DEN days.

Lawson? Lawson was a rookie who didn't do much when melo was there, it was only when they traded Billups that Lawson took off.

He had some solid players but nothing compared to what Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, CP3, Wade, Durant, Harden...etc... have had help wise.

but my point was people saying Melo doesn't win are being shortsighted and forgetting what he did in DEN and even his first couple of years in NY. Playoffs every single year, WCF, 60% winning %... despite never having the best team around him compared to others.

Love on the other hand couldn't even make the playoffs once or even get his team to .500... and he had some solid players too. Rubio, Kevin Martin, Pek... but MIN won 29% of their games...

basch152
01-09-2015, 12:30 PM
He had an aging AI for 1 full year and part of another.

Billups was the closest thing he had to a 2nd star, but he was past his prime too, like 32-36 years old in his DEN days.

Lawson? Lawson was a rookie who didn't do much when melo was there, it was only when they traded Billups that Lawson took off.

He had some solid players but nothing compared to what Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, CP3, Wade, Durant, Harden...etc... have had help wise.

but my point was people saying Melo doesn't win are being shortsighted and forgetting what he did in DEN and even his first couple of years in NY. Playoffs every single year, WCF, 60% winning %... despite never having the best team around him compared to others.

Love on the other hand couldn't even make the playoffs once or even get his team to .500... and he had some solid players too. Rubio, Kevin Martin, Pek... but MIN won 29% of their games...

Chaunceys age is kind of irrelevant.

While at denver he was averaging around 18 and 6 while shooting 42, 40, 90, all the while being the best leader in the NBA.

That's a star.

On top of a bunch of good role players. You can't really ask for much more out of a team.

D-Leethal
01-09-2015, 01:46 PM
Wait, what?Never had a second star?

He had Iverson(albeit aging, but still scoring more than 20 a game), then got the floor general Chauncey scoring 20 a game and leading the team, and they had a whole bunch of solid players after them like Afflalo, jr smith, kenyon martin, nene, lawson, and birdman.

And don't try to say chaunceyw wasn't a star. He was one of the best team leaders in NBA history. If I'm starting a team, I take a 20 year old Chauncey before I even think of taking a 20 year old Melo.

Iverson was a star but never a prime fit next to Melo - two volume scorers is never really a recipe for success at the highest level. Billups was indeed a prime fit and they went to the WCF.

They had good players and a very good team but you can't say he had the help that LeBron and Durant have had. Dirk is a guy you can say had similar help throughout his career. Melo never had himself a Westbrook or a Wade or even a Bosh/Ibaka.

likemystylez
01-09-2015, 03:08 PM
I say the best PF in the league is

Duncan
AD
Ibaka

in no particular order.

AD is hands down the best- but aldridge is better than ibaka, id take griffin over ibaka too.

Maybe im bias against ibaka- but hes just a little bit better than taj gibson IMO

likemystylez
01-09-2015, 03:10 PM
Bosh led teams to the playoffs before he signed with Miami, Love didn't

Love played in a tougher conference- and when twolves were at their best with love- theyd make the playoffs out east

likemystylez
01-09-2015, 03:12 PM
And if I'm the Lakers why would I even consider signing Love to a max contract

Hes the best player they are going to get, and in fairness maybe love isnt a top 5 player in the nba..... but hes a lot better than what hes shown this year.

Love alone doesnt make the lakers a contender though.

valade16
01-09-2015, 03:14 PM
AD is hands down the best- but aldridge is better than ibaka, id take griffin over ibaka too.

Maybe im bias against ibaka- but hes just a little bit better than taj gibson IMO

I've never understood the infatuation with Ibaka. Yes, he plays great defense but Aldridge and Griffin could both be a #1 player or option on a team. Could you imagine a team with Ibaka as the best player? We saw that and it was a dumpster fire.

GiantsSwaGG
01-09-2015, 04:08 PM
Chaunceys age is kind of irrelevant.

While at denver he was averaging around 18 and 6 while shooting 42, 40, 90, all the while being the best leader in the NBA.

That's a star.

On top of a bunch of good role players. You can't really ask for much more out of a team.

The Nuggets might of made it to the finals if they played in the East

Sanjay
01-10-2015, 07:20 PM
I never understood why people thought he was so good. Sure, he put up big numbers last season, but it is not that hard to do when you are really the only good player on a team. He is a good shooter and rebounder and a decent passer, but I do not think he is an All-Star level player like some people are making him out to be. The real test will be if he is able to help the Cavs win in the playoffs.

izmb
01-10-2015, 07:27 PM
The numbers are lying to you. Do you see the same Kevin Love out there?first year in cleveland with new teammates..his numbers are still good give it time

KnicksorBust
01-10-2015, 08:43 PM
Nothing Love does now matters. Love is like Stoudemire on the Suns. On the right team everyone will have no choice but to respect his game. On the wrong team people will focus on his weaknesses. Just wait till Bron is back and they catch a rhythm as a team. The playoffs will define him.

JordansBulls
01-10-2015, 09:54 PM
What star will gel next to Lebron?

Raps18-19 Champ
01-10-2015, 10:26 PM
What star will gel next to Lebron?

Yea, it's up to Lebron to adapt his game to accommodate everyone else, not for other weaker players to adjust to his game.

lol, please
01-10-2015, 11:55 PM
Yea, it's up to Lebron to adapt his game to accommodate everyone else, not for other weaker players to adjust to his game.
It's up to both to work together. It's called a team. Teamwork wins championships.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-11-2015, 12:01 AM
It's up to both to work together. It's called a team. Teamwork wins championships.

Some have to adjust more than others of course.

lol, please
01-11-2015, 12:02 AM
Some have to adjust more than others of course.
While that's sometimes true, it doesn't mean the "better" player adjusts the least by default. Roles,position, and efficiency matter.

Bostonjorge
01-11-2015, 03:38 AM
I don't see how he's overatted. Love's numbers are amazing for a third option so what more is expected from him to do in that role. Last time I checked third options where never the main reason between losing and winning. Let me guess. Love has to be the best third option in the history of the game so this team can win basketball games?

Funny how a third option averaging 17 and 10 is not enough to win in the weakest conference. Maybe the leadership is to blame here.

D-Leethal
01-11-2015, 01:34 PM
I think a finishing big man or a lights out shooter would thrive and reach their peak next to LeBron - a Blake Griffin type and a Klay Thompson type. It's not LeBron's fault he has a certain style of play - thats his game and certain guys will fit next to that just like any other high usage player. Players aren't one size fits all.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-11-2015, 01:43 PM
While that's sometimes true, it doesn't mean the "better" player adjusts the least by default. Roles,position, and efficiency matter.

Of course not. But in any scenario Lebron has in, it's been more apparent who should adjust to who.

KnicksorBust
01-11-2015, 01:54 PM
I think a finishing big man or a lights out shooter would thrive and reach their peak next to LeBron - a Blake Griffin type and a Klay Thompson type. It's not LeBron's fault he has a certain style of play - thats his game and certain guys will fit next to that just like any other high usage player. Players aren't one size fits all.

Lebron is one size fits all. A ball-dominant guard with a poor perimeter game (Wade) reached his peak efficiency with him.

MDD
01-11-2015, 06:50 PM
People keep saying he's the third option that's why his numbers aren't so good but if he was so great shouldn't he be like the second option to lebron

Raps18-19 Champ
01-11-2015, 08:22 PM
People keep saying he's the third option that's why his numbers aren't so good but if he was so great shouldn't he be like the second option to lebron

Kyrie fits better than Love does.

Cal827
01-11-2015, 08:29 PM
Yup. I've always said that he's pretty much what Chris Bosh was in Toronto before he went to join Lebron. Very good player, can put up some monster numbers, but they are monster numbers on bad teams. Now, at least with Bosh, was that as the season moved on, he became more focused on being the good defender, and we did see that in his time there. Love seems to still ignore that side of the ball.

:laugh2: I still remember when a Lebron Homer called me an idiot for questioning Love and saying that Wade was, by far, the best player that Lebron ever had as a teammate in the NBA.

abe_froman
01-11-2015, 08:42 PM
i dont get why it so hard for people to understand that stats are a fluid thing,something that is greatly influenced by things like teammates,role,coach,ect. .you can call that being overrated,but its something all players are victims of.if he's made a focal point again,then he will be seen in a better light again.

reminds me of what happened to bosh.put up great numbers on the raps,but when he went to miami his stats took a hit and everyone jumped on him for being crap