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Nikeman
01-06-2015, 12:49 AM
Reading reports, the Knicks have up to 30 million in cap space available for 2015.

Players such as Marc Gasol, Kevin Love, Goran Dragic, Rondo, DeAndre Jordan, Greg Monroe, etc etc are all going to be on the market this off-season.

The Knicks have close to max money for two players, however, they are almost guaranteed an amazing (top 3) type pick in this draft. Currently, they are 5-32, the Sixers are 5-28, the Knicks are destined to tank at this point. If they pull what the Cavs did this past off-season by trading their first pick in the draft (Wiggins), they can land another all-star player and create a Big 4 alongside Melo with their 30+ million in cap.

With the East being as weak as it is, the Knicks could be back in the top 3-4 teams within one season if Jackson plays his cards right.

mngopher35
01-06-2015, 12:56 AM
If everything works perfectly (aka like getting gasol) then it looks great, yes.

Even if they can't though they have flexibility moving forward and could add a nice piece or two while saving max money for the next offseason. They should play it smart and not panic/overspend if they can't get stars this summer (and I expect pj to understand that). i wouldn't say it is a genius move but it was the right one.

D-Leethal
01-06-2015, 12:58 AM
Phil has set the table to literally handpick every piece on this roster going forward. Should be very interesting to see what happens. Does the Zen Master do it again or does NY eat Phish alive?

sjbirds
01-06-2015, 01:00 AM
Well it depends who they sign and for what. And no not genius just smart n right move

JV35
01-06-2015, 01:05 AM
Reading reports, the Knicks have up to 30 million in cap space available for 2015.

Players such as Marc Gasol, Kevin Love, Goran Dragic, Rondo, DeAndre Jordan, Greg Monroe, etc etc are all going to be on the market this off-season.

The Knicks have close to max money for two players, however, they are almost guaranteed an amazing (top 3) type pick in this draft. Currently, they are 5-32, the Sixers are 5-28, the Knicks are destined to tank at this point. If they pull what the Cavs did this past off-season by trading their first pick in the draft (Wiggins), they can land another all-star player and create a Big 4 alongside Melo with their 30+ million in cap.

With the East being as weak as it is, the Knicks could be back in the top 3-4 teams within one season if Jackson plays his cards right.

I'll withhold genius designation.

However, I'm looking forward to a Pistons/Knicks East Finals next year.

smith&wesson
01-06-2015, 01:16 AM
If I was Phill Id target Dragic and Gasol.

16 million for Gasol per year
14 million for Dragic per year

And hope to god they accept. That would be a good start. A top pick wont hurt.

deaner
01-06-2015, 01:19 AM
He's proven he can tear it down. That's about it. What GM in the NBA couldn't do that?

Raps18-19 Champ
01-06-2015, 01:22 AM
The first thing they need to do is trade Melo if they want to actually get somewhere.

abe_froman
01-06-2015, 01:32 AM
it was a good move,but you are overestimating free agency and likelihood of rebuilding that way(actually thats a big part of whats gotten them into the mess of the past 15 years,always hoping/banking on free agency will somehow magically save them)

Crackadalic
01-06-2015, 01:46 AM
it was a good move,but you are overestimating free agency and likelihood of rebuilding that way(actually thats a big part of whats gotten them into the mess of the past 15 years,always hoping/banking on free agency will somehow magically save them)

I agree with the first line but we still have the draft to look forward to as well. Nobody is saying we are contenders over night. Its to get players that fit and build chemistry without always changing players. We had over 100 players put on a knick uniform the last 5 years. How are we gonna have stability if we are always changing players?

abe_froman
01-06-2015, 02:14 AM
I agree with the first line but we still have the draft to look forward to as well. Nobody is saying we are contenders over night. Its to get players that fit and build chemistry without always changing players. We had over 100 players put on a knick uniform the last 5 years. How are we gonna have stability if we are always changing players?
but thats the premise of the thread-that you'll be able to rebuild in one year.i liked the trade for you guys a lot.its a good start,getting rid of a cancer like smith is a net positive going forward,just because of who he is.i was just disagreeing with the op's premise.

you are right about the draft and its a great start,but you'll need to hit on a few of them to get that core that will turn you into winners(just sucks giving that ntc to reup melo ,he could have netted some good picks/assets to speed things up)

Pakman
01-06-2015, 02:17 AM
Lol false hope knicks. What has history taught you?

redsoxknicks
01-06-2015, 02:23 AM
I think we have to save any judgment of this move - or any of the other Phil moves - until at least this summer. With a 5-win team, Phil didn't have much choice but to continue the tear down, plus neither Shump nor JR were part of those future plans.

Potentially we have a top 5 pick, and hope for higher end of that, and a lot of cap space. It could work out beautifully or it could be a big disappointment. As a Knicks fan, I am not getting my hopes up, but at least right now we have potential for next season to really turn things around, and that is more than we have had in awhile.

Not especially genius, but I still have to trust Phil because he inherited a gigantic mess, full of players who really don't have the heart and fire to win. They are not easy to shed and so far Phil is cleaning house, and for that we should all just look forward to what this team could become.

That is when Phil will really show his "genius" or not. But like any great or rebuilding team, so much has to go right for it to really come together. Time will tell, and I hope the NY media and fan base will show some patience. At least until draft night and our first FA signing.

mike_noodles
01-06-2015, 02:40 AM
I don't know that it's a stroke of genius or incredible luck that they are so bad that it actually makes their future look a little brighter.

BKLYNpigeon
01-06-2015, 02:47 AM
Knicks had the this salary cap to spend before. they offered Max contracts to Amare and Joe Johnson. lol.

If they dont get Marc Gasol. its all a waste of time.

HoopsDrive
01-06-2015, 02:53 AM
Only if they land FAs that fit cohesively as a team.

rhino17
01-06-2015, 02:56 AM
I don't know why any of those "big time free agents" (if you can even call them that) would even want to play for the knicks

mike_noodles
01-06-2015, 03:02 AM
I don't know why any of those "big time free agents" (if you can even call them that) would even want to play for the knicks

I think the idea would be to trade that nice pick for a star and then use that to lure a 3rd star.

uprightciti
01-06-2015, 03:08 AM
Jose Calderon
Cleanthony Early
Tim Hardaway Jr
Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Pablo Prigioni

and of course Carmelo Anthony

rights to re sign Amare for super cheap or Quincy Acy or Cole Aldridge or Shane Larkin

plus our 1st round pick

plus an additional 2nd round pick in 2019

PLUS we just pulled ROTTEN TEETH in JR SMITH

Really sad to see Shump go but we were not going to resign him anyway and saved the headache of "what-if" scenarios

and then $30 Million dollars in cap space

could Phil even pry Lebron? LOL or K-Love?
Gasol $16
Dragic $14
Lamarcus Aldridge?
DeAndre Jordon?
Paul Milsap?
Jimmy Butler?
Rondo?
Greg Monroe?
Patrick Beverly?
Omar Asik?
Jimmer?
Tobias Harris?
Reggie Jackson?
KJ McDaniels?
Wes Matthews?
Robin Lopez?
Kawhi Leonard?
Enes Kanter?

there is some solid talent out there for sure

and the kicker is if he strikes out he will surely protect himself and sign 1 year deals to go at it again the next year.

Solid Move
Very ZEN LIKE


Melo

redhorse
01-06-2015, 03:55 AM
Wat do u guys expect phil to do with the roster knicks had? Im just reading comments and its like why is it even an issue? All season long we kept hearing "nobody wants your trash " jr smith sux shumpert sux etc.... now we got rid of them to free up more cap space for the future....and i thought wed be stuck with jr....

considering we are last place...whats the point of keeping them? I wanna kno the other side to it.....wats the argument??

I dont think they have any other choice but to go all in for free agency .... we may strike out yea but at least theres a chance we can hit a hr and we also have a 1st rd pick.... and ppl bringing up 2010...nobody knew the heat would form a super team....

redhorse
01-06-2015, 03:57 AM
I think the idea would be to trade that nice pick for a star and then use that to lure a 3rd star.

I hope they dont.... if they dont land whoever they want in free agency....they should trade melo....

sharqstealth
01-06-2015, 04:38 AM
Could this happen in 2015?

With a ton of cap space, and Knicks have the potential of signing 2 max, Lebron Melo and Wade joining forces together in New York.

KingstonHawke
01-06-2015, 04:47 AM
OP is obviously a Knicks homer. Give away the recent 6th man of the year and a really good role player for nothing. And y'all are calling it genius? Genius would've been moving those two to Detroit for Monroe somehow so you're in pole position to extend him next year. Instead, they are just setting up to overpay a few players, not how you win championships.

They should've made a play for Kobe at the beginning of the year like I said. Now they are in play for a top 4 pick. This is how you become a team good enough to go to the playoffs but not good enough to win it all. Maybe what they want considering how much they've sucked over the years.

Nikeman
01-06-2015, 05:20 AM
OP is obviously a Knicks homer. Give away the recent 6th man of the year and a really good role player for nothing. And y'all are calling it genius? Genius would've been moving those two to Detroit for Monroe somehow so you're in pole position to extend him next year. Instead, they are just setting up to overpay a few players, not how you win championships.

They should've made a play for Kobe at the beginning of the year like I said. Now they are in play for a top 4 pick. This is how you become a team good enough to go to the playoffs but not good enough to win it all. Maybe what they want considering how much they've sucked over the years.


May be the dumbest post I've seen in years. First off im a Heat fan, as shown by my god damn signature. 6th man of the year? Dude nobody wanted JR Smith... They packaged shumptert to give up JR. gaining 7 million in cap.

Yeah dude trading for Kobe would have really put the Knicks over the top this season.

meloman1592
01-06-2015, 05:25 AM
OP is obviously a Knicks homer. Give away the recent 6th man of the year and a really good role player for nothing. And y'all are calling it genius? Genius would've been moving those two to Detroit for Monroe somehow so you're in pole position to extend him next year. Instead, they are just setting up to overpay a few players, not how you win championships.

They should've made a play for Kobe at the beginning of the year like I said. Now they are in play for a top 4 pick. This is how you become a team good enough to go to the playoffs but not good enough to win it all. Maybe what they want considering how much they've sucked over the years.

This is one hell of a dumb *** post

BlinkManJan02
01-06-2015, 05:29 AM
LeBron opts out, new york. badda bing badda boom just like that nothin else. i am being facetious. knicks might be better off going with other players. The Spurs dynasty won't carry on for much longer, age of course. I think the Knicks may be able build something longer lasting, straying away from briggity bron. I'm just a bron hater though.

PurpleLynch
01-06-2015, 07:58 AM
It was a genius move because Phil got rid of Smith,whitout any disadvantages. But no way they are rebuilding in one year. This is just the beginning,one of the key moment will be next free agency. If Phil will be able to land two or three really good players to help Melo;
there are a lot of names...Gasol,Dragic,Lopez(Brook or Robin),Millsap,Matthews,Green(Gerald or Danny),Jefferson,Aldridge,Afflalo etc

lamzoka
01-06-2015, 08:22 AM
OP is obviously a Knicks homer. Give away the recent 6th man of the year and a really good role player for nothing. And y'all are calling it genius? Genius would've been moving those two to Detroit for Monroe somehow so you're in pole position to extend him next year. Instead, they are just setting up to overpay a few players, not how you win championships.

They should've made a play for Kobe at the beginning of the year like I said. Now they are in play for a top 4 pick. This is how you become a team good enough to go to the playoffs but not good enough to win it all. Maybe what they want considering how much they've sucked over the years.


:facepalm: really?

FraziersKnicks
01-06-2015, 08:43 AM
I've been saying it all along, the Knicks future is looking brighter. No other team would generate such a negative amount of attention for a great trade. If this was Morey or Ujiri people would be singing their praises but because it's the Knicks, JR is suddenly the reigning 6th man of the year and Shumpert is a DPOY candidate.

This trade has helped the Knicks in so many ways to prepare for next season:

Gives playing time to our young guys.
Allows us to tank even more.
Free's up another $7m so we can afford two max deals.

I actually wouldn't want us to go after two max players though. I want Phil to try and split the money between a big and a guard. Some combination along the lines of:

Gasol/Dragic
Monroe/Matthews
Aldridge/Jackson

Add to the a top 3 pick and the pieces we still have on the team: Melo, Hardaway Jr., Aldrich, Larkin, Early and some lower level cheap free agents and we're in the position to put together a nice team.

People get mad because it's the Knicks but I can deal with that. Phil inherited a team with a load of players that didn't fit his system. Now he has the opportunity to basically hand pick his entire roster with $30M+ cap room, a superstar level player and hopefully a top 3 pick in what's looking like a 4 player draft (Okafor, Mudiay, Towns, Johnson).

This trade helped a long way in making this scenario possible.

PhillyFaninLA
01-06-2015, 08:47 AM
So the Sixers tanking the league is the doomed and the Sixers are horrible and the fans are delusional and this is the worst thing in sports history.

The Knicks do it....great now they can position themselves to win a title.

GiantsSwaGG
01-06-2015, 08:56 AM
I would expect this over reaction thread from a delusional Knicks fans.

It's a good trade but let's hold of on calling this a great trade. The Cavs won this trade easily. We have the cap space now let's see what Phil does

LongIslandIcedZ
01-06-2015, 08:57 AM
It was a great move. Save some cash and JR won't be on the team next year. Two monster positives.

To consider it genius, they'd have to effectively use up the saved money.

jimm120
01-06-2015, 09:13 AM
I've said from the beginning, re-signing Melo was about making a rebuilding window of 1-3 years.


Trading Melo would make a rebuild last 4-5 years.


I prefer to rebuild with:

Melo and top 5 pick
over
Top 5 pick and mid-round pick

(you're not gonna get a high pick from a playoff team getting Melo).

And worried about his age? Melo will be playing in years 31 and year 32 the following season. NBA players start to decline in year 33 usually. Melo still got Prime ball for the next 2 seasons.

pebloemer
01-06-2015, 09:13 AM
If everything works perfectly (aka like getting gasol) then it looks great, yes.

Even if they can't though they have flexibility moving forward and could add a nice piece or two while saving max money for the next offseason. They should play it smart and not panic/overspend if they can't get stars this summer (and I expect pj to understand that). i wouldn't say it is a genius move but it was the right one.

I agree with this. It was a logical move. There were many that have believed since the off-season that the goal has been a high draft pick for 2015 along with as much cap space as possible. I think PJ was smart enough to realize getting better in 2014 wasn't going to be productive long-term. Too many dead weight contracts. Might as well gear up for when they come off the books.

colinskik
01-06-2015, 09:18 AM
So the Sixers tanking the league is the doomed and the Sixers are horrible and the fans are delusional and this is the worst thing in sports history.

The Knicks do it....great now they can position themselves to win a title.

Difference is that the Sixers keep on doing it and haven't spent any money yet. If the Knicks don't spend in free agency and tank again next year then it's a bad move.

So when exactly are the Sixers going to cash in on all these high draft picks and money?? Probably need to sign some vets to get the thing back on track.

Nycbball08
01-06-2015, 09:27 AM
OP is obviously a Knicks homer. Give away the recent 6th man of the year and a really good role player for nothing. And y'all are calling it genius? Genius would've been moving those two to Detroit for Monroe somehow so you're in pole position to extend him next year. Instead, they are just setting up to overpay a few players, not how you win championships.

They should've made a play for Kobe at the beginning of the year like I said. Now they are in play for a top 4 pick. This is how you become a team good enough to go to the playoffs but not good enough to win it all. Maybe what they want considering how much they've sucked over the years.

Thank God you're not a GM!!

TheNumber37
01-06-2015, 09:35 AM
Knicks should sign one big name, and two smaller names. Then draft well. Or, when Lebron opts out offer him 20 million

Jamiecballer
01-06-2015, 09:38 AM
It was a wise move but I can't understand why they resigned Melo now.

deaner
01-06-2015, 09:50 AM
Could this happen in 2015?

With a ton of cap space, and Knicks have the potential of signing 2 max, Lebron Melo and Wade joining forces together in New York.

Max deals and they play a total of 15 games together due to injury. LOL. Bring it on please!!

mudvayne387
01-06-2015, 09:53 AM
Was it genius ? No, it was a good basketball decision that us Knick fans are just not used to seeing. The worst thing that ever happened to the Knicks is that 50 win season a few years ago. It brought upon false hopes for a team with an incredibly flawed roster.

The good news is not the boat load of cap space the Knicks have, it's the fact that they own their own pick in this years draft. If they are able to land Okafor or Mundiay to pair with Melo, then it is yet another step in the right direction.

If they are able to draft Okafor #1, then their first priority should be to target LaMarcus Aldridge and permanently move Anthony to SF. The remaining funds should be used to fill out the roster with secondary scoring options.

Calderon
Matthews
Anthony
Aldridge
Okafor

I truly hope they don't try and form a big 3 and instead target a max player + 2/3 quality players. They also have Calderon + the expiring's of STAT and Bargs to dangle out there in hopes of landing another late 1st round pick.

Whatever the case may be, the Knicks haven't been in this good of a position in quite some time. But just because they have cap space, it doesn't automatically mean players are going to come running to NY.

2-ONE-5
01-06-2015, 10:04 AM
Knicks are going to sign every big FA available so yes it will be a fast rebuild.

GiantsSwaGG
01-06-2015, 10:09 AM
This is no where near a genius move. Borderline great, (would of been great if we netted a 1st round). At the end of the day go sign FA, draft well and build a championship team because this trade will be meaningless if that doesn't happen!

2-ONE-5
01-06-2015, 10:11 AM
Difference is that the Sixers keep on doing it and haven't spent any money yet. If the Knicks don't spend in free agency and tank again next year then it's a bad move.

So when exactly are the Sixers going to cash in on all these high draft picks and money?? Probably need to sign some vets to get the thing back on track.

you have to develop players before you waste money on vets FA's. How is Calderon and Sammy D working out in Ny or Frye in Orlando?

deaner
01-06-2015, 10:15 AM
genius?

Facts:

PJ was brought in to turn it around. Dolan went hands off so that PJ could be the true Zen Master and turn this team around. IMO he has failed miserably. Instead of getting guys to buy into the program, it fell apart. Players didn't become more efficient, players didn't unite as one unit, the triangle is hated, PJ struck out in th coaching circles and signed a dud. Knicks have a gimp Melo on a max-ish deal and fading Calderon. To start the tank now when you already have the most losses in the NBA isn't worth of parade. Let's not throw the word genius around yet. He had failed at everything he set out to do. Any GM can strip it down. Any team counting on production from a draftee is going to be waiting 2-4 years. Next year will be a year every team has money as the cap bar moves. It's a huge gamble someone would jump for fisher Calderon and Melo.

Genius would have been getting this team to perfom and lead the Atlantic. The opposite of genius was to implement the triangle with Fisher and have the team shut down all interest in competition.

mudvayne387
01-06-2015, 10:16 AM
you have to develop players before you waste money on vets FA's. How is Calderon and Sammy D working out in Ny or Frye in Orlando?

By the time the 76ers develop their "young players", they are going to be eligible for free agency and looking to bolt town ... I really have no idea what their plan is and I don't think they do either.

ATX
01-06-2015, 10:24 AM
Clearing cap space on a team this bad is a good move, but I wouldn't call it a *Genius move, in that it's a move any GM under these circumstances would try to pull off. It's a good move, I'll give it that. Stripping it down as deaner pointed out is the easier part of the equation. Fitting in the right pieces with the right salaries to create a contending team is where the *Genius comes in.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-06-2015, 10:27 AM
Even if Knicks don't land top flight free agents. Capspace can be used more then just signing players. Can be used to eat other teams players contract to get them under luxury tax with a sweetener like late firsts or a couple second rounder's tucked into the deal. Or to help in big trades to help facilitate a trade and receive bunch of second rounder's. 76ers been doing that this year. Heck Bucks took on Dudley from Clippers and got a late first in 2017. Capspace is always nice.

InRoseWeTrust
01-06-2015, 10:35 AM
Genius? No. They cleared cap. But it was the right move for them to make. Should have sold years ago on Iman though.

Jamiecballer
01-06-2015, 10:35 AM
Its a giant roll of the dice on FA but its pretty much your only shot when you don't have a lot of draft picks in the near future.

nycericanguy
01-06-2015, 10:36 AM
Anyone else find it odd that Phil was willing to take Calderon at $7.4m? When he is cutting corners everywhere else?

Calderon is BFF with Marc... just saying...

jericho
01-06-2015, 10:46 AM
Even if Knicks don't land top flight free agents. Capspace can be used more then just signing players. Can be used to eat other teams players contract to get them under luxury tax with a sweetener like late firsts or a couple second rounder's tucked into the deal. Or to help in big trades to help facilitate a trade and receive bunch of second rounder's. 76ers been doing that this year. Heck Bucks took on Dudley from Clippers and got a late first in 2017. Capspace is always nice.

Here is the problem with that Knicks barely have any first round and second round picks to trade.

Jamiecballer
01-06-2015, 10:52 AM
Here is the problem with that Knicks barely have any first round and second round picks to trade.
That is the opposite of what he was saying. He was saying they could take other peoples problems with space and extract draft picks for it. I think.

effen5
01-06-2015, 10:54 AM
Anyone else find it odd that Phil was willing to take Calderon at $7.4m? When he is cutting corners everywhere else?

Calderon is BFF with Marc... just saying...

Isn't melo bff with Lebron too?

I don't think marc is leaving...he has an elite team already and he's in his hometown in the states with his family.

nycericanguy
01-06-2015, 10:56 AM
Isn't melo bff with Lebron too?

I don't think marc is leaving...he has an elite team already and he's in his hometown in the states with his family.

Lebron isnt going anywhere though...

Marc has an elite team now but keep in mind next year Zbo will be going on 36, and Tony allen will be going on 34. It's really just Marc & Conley long term.

Pau left MEM and it was the best thing for him... Marc might just get tired of the West. he'd have a much easier path to finals if he teamed up with Melo, JC and another player like Dragic.

2-ONE-5
01-06-2015, 10:58 AM
By the time the 76ers develop their "young players", they are going to be eligible for free agency and looking to bolt town ... I really have no idea what their plan is and I don't think they do either.

lol why did you put young players in quotes? The player development Coach Brown and co has done in under 2 years is quite impressive already. **** you better hope you do get Okafor bcuz dealing with Embiid is going to be a big enough problem as it is down the line.

mudvayne387
01-06-2015, 11:05 AM
genius?

Facts:

PJ was brought in to turn it around. Dolan went hands off so that PJ could be the true Zen Master and turn this team around. IMO he has failed miserably. Instead of getting guys to buy into the program, it fell apart. Players didn't become more efficient, players didn't unite as one unit, the triangle is hated, PJ struck out in th coaching circles and signed a dud. Knicks have a gimp Melo on a max-ish deal and fading Calderon. To start the tank now when you already have the most losses in the NBA isn't worth of parade. Let's not throw the word genius around yet. He had failed at everything he set out to do. Any GM can strip it down. Any team counting on production from a draftee is going to be waiting 2-4 years. Next year will be a year every team has money as the cap bar moves. It's a huge gamble someone would jump for fisher Calderon and Melo.

Genius would have been getting this team to perfom and lead the Atlantic. The opposite of genius was to implement the triangle with Fisher and have the team shut down all interest in competition.

Wow, this is why NBA threads on PSD end up going nowhere. Do you realize just how silly you sound ?

Phil Jackson flat out said when he signed on that this will not be an easy or short term process. The goal was to build a long term championship contender, not a middle of the road Eastern Conference team.

He just put the Knicks in a position to sign two all star caliber players or one all star caliber player and 2/ 3 other potential starters. Better yet, they are now in a position to finally surround Carmelo Anthony with capable defenders, secondary scorers, and real talent. If they team is built right, Anthony will never have to be anything but a true scorer.

Trading for Calderon and Dalembert was a low risk move that will have little negative effect on the teams future. Either Calderon will remain a Knick next year and continue to knock down three's in the triangle (shooting 42%) or they will trade him to a contender looking for PG depth.

Best of all, they are in prime position to land the #1 or 2 overall pick which will net them either a starting PG of the future, or a dominant low post scorer in Okafor.

So go ahead and continue to bash the Knicks (it's pretty easy to do). But real NBA fans will realize that this is the first time in 10+ years that the Knicks have a chance to build a real NBA team.

jericho
01-06-2015, 11:06 AM
Here is the problem with that Knicks barely have any first round and second round picks to trade.
That is the opposite of what he was saying. He was saying they could take other peoples problems with space and extract draft picks for it. I think.

Why would we want to get their problems? Oh ok now I get it my bad blonde moment lol.

mudvayne387
01-06-2015, 11:08 AM
lol why did you put young players in quotes? The player development Coach Brown and co has done in under 2 years is quite impressive already. **** you better hope you do get Okafor bcuz dealing with Embiid is going to be a big enough problem as it is down the line.

Yes it is very impressive ! It is really paying dividends too, they just overtook the Knicks for the 29th best team in the NBA !!! And just for the record, Okafor is a poor low post defender. But I'm sure you already knew that ...

GiantsSwaGG
01-06-2015, 11:10 AM
lol why did you put young players in quotes? The player development Coach Brown and co has done in under 2 years is quite impressive already. **** you better hope you do get Okafor bcuz dealing with Embiid is going to be a big enough problem as it is down the line.

Until his back flares up and henders his career

deaner
01-06-2015, 11:10 AM
Lebron isnt going anywhere though...

Marc has an elite team now but keep in mind next year Zbo will be going on 36, and Tony allen will be going on 34. It's really just Marc & Conley long term.

Pau left MEM and it was the best thing for him... Marc might just get tired of the West. he'd have a much easier path to finals if he teamed up with Melo, JC and another player like Dragic.

To use your logic against you how old is Jose?

D-Leethal
01-06-2015, 11:15 AM
To use your logic against you how old is Jose?

Jose is not going to be a part of any "big 3" on this team - he will be a backup or a 5th option Derek Fisher type PG for us. Jose can help recruit, but Marc would be coming to team with Melo + another max/near max + possibly a third max (if we want to trade our lottery pick ala Cleveland).

deaner
01-06-2015, 11:22 AM
Jose is not going to be a part of any "big 3" on this team - he will be a backup or a 5th option Derek Fisher type PG for us. Jose can help recruit, but Marc would be coming to team with Melo + another max/near max + possibly a third max (if we want to trade our lottery pick ala Cleveland).

It's good pipe dream. Phil and his triangle have done nothing to build the Knickerbockers so let's not get carried away. The challenge is on... Will Phil win a trade before the Knicks win their next game?

Crackadalic
01-06-2015, 11:22 AM
genius?

Facts:

PJ was brought in to turn it around. Dolan went hands off so that PJ could be the true Zen Master and turn this team around. IMO he has failed miserably. Instead of getting guys to buy into the program, it fell apart. Players didn't become more efficient, players didn't unite as one unit, the triangle is hated, PJ struck out in th coaching circles and signed a dud. Knicks have a gimp Melo on a max-ish deal and fading Calderon. To start the tank now when you already have the most losses in the NBA isn't worth of parade. Let's not throw the word genius around yet. He had failed at everything he set out to do. Any GM can strip it down. Any team counting on production from a draftee is going to be waiting 2-4 years. Next year will be a year every team has money as the cap bar moves. It's a huge gamble someone would jump for fisher Calderon and Melo.

Genius would have been getting this team to perfom and lead the Atlantic. The opposite of genius was to implement the triangle with Fisher and have the team shut down all interest in competition.

:laugh::laugh:

Are you fuccin kidding me?

Your telling me that leading a team that has 80% of their players coming off the books and can give two ***** about the triangle was better for the team?

If I'm a player and I know I'm not coming back and its my last year on my contract why the **** do I have to change the way I play if I'm not gonna be here next year.

How does a guy like Tim get more playing time to develop pin front of a guy who won't be here and a guy who does"whats on your feet" pics during games

How are we suppose to contend for the division when we had to start a 3rd string pg to start for 15 games

How are we suppose to contend with a team who has a history of getting injured

I think you guys need to take business classes and just stick to watching basketball with your poms poms lol

I rather we suck balls with young players getting 40 minutes to develop then see a bunch of divas more concern with their brand. Only reason I'm leaving Melo out is he is sign long term and he is by far our only nba talent

2-ONE-5
01-06-2015, 11:31 AM
Yes it is very impressive ! It is really paying dividends too, they just overtook the Knicks for the 29th best team in the NBA !!! And just for the record, Okafor is a poor low post defender. But I'm sure you already knew that ...

Poor? I wouldnt go that far, its not like Duke gets lit up in the paint.


Until his back flares up and henders his career

lol you better hope

deaner
01-06-2015, 11:50 AM
:laugh::laugh:

Are you fuccin kidding me?

Your telling me that leading a team that has 80% of their players coming off the books and can give two ***** about the triangle was better for the team?

If I'm a player and I know I'm not coming back and its my last year on my contract why the **** do I have to change the way I play if I'm not gonna be here next year.

How does a guy like Tim get more playing time to develop pin front of a guy who won't be here and a guy who does"whats on your feet" pics during games

How are we suppose to contend for the division when we had to start a 3rd string pg to start for 15 games

How are we suppose to contend with a team who has a history of getting injured

I think you guys need to take business classes and just stick to watching basketball with your poms poms lol

I rather we suck balls with young players getting 40 minutes to develop then see a bunch of divas more concern with their brand. Only reason I'm leaving Melo out is he is sign long term and he is by far our only nba talent

Dude. You've changed your tune since the summer. You were a big part of the knick fans saying they hade the Atlantic locked up, that getting rid of T Chadler and Felton was the best thing ever, that JR was a 6th man candidate, that Shump would take a huge step forward, that Bargnani would rock the world in the triangle, that T Murray was solid, dally would be better than Tyson, a couple weeks of learning the triangle system would change knick basketball, knicks bench was one of the deepest in the league, the east was wide open for you this year, you didn't need draft picks because all the stars would flock to NY for Phil, Calderon was perfect to run the triangle, Phil had pull to get the best coach, last year was just a bad year due to injury, 50 games!, Melo is healthy and will dominate, your 3rd string PG may dominate starters with his speed, Dolan interference with the team was the only reason they weren't winning... I know I've missed a bunch.

A lot of effort was given to getting you guys to become realistic of your team but it's only now coming across to you.

You can't suck balls, you have very few picks.

I was thinking of taking a business course.. Which one did you take?

nycericanguy
01-06-2015, 11:55 AM
Dude. You've changed your tune since the summer. You were a big part of the knick fans saying they hade the Atlantic locked up, that getting rid of T Chadler and Felton was the best thing ever, that JR was a 6th man candidate, that Shump would take a huge step forward, that Bargnani would rock the world in the triangle, that T Murray was solid, dally would be better than Tyson, a couple weeks of learning the triangle system would change knick basketball, knicks bench was one of the deepest in the league, the east was wide open for you this year, you didn't need draft picks because all the stars would flock to NY for Phil, Calderon was perfect to run the triangle, Phil had pull to get the best coach, last year was just a bad year due to injury, 50 games!, Melo is healthy and will dominate, your 3rd string PG may dominate starters with his speed, Dolan interference with the team was the only reason they weren't winning... I know I've missed a bunch.

A lot of effort was given to getting you guys to become realistic of your team but it's only now coming across to you.

You can't suck balls, you have very few picks.

I was thinking of taking a business course.. Which one did you take?

Show me even ONE fan that said that???

Dude, you're so transparent... you have a deep rooted hate for NY in general... and it seethes out in all your posts. You are always making things up just to try to make a fan base look as bad you perceive them and want them to be... it's quite pathetic.

Jamiecballer
01-06-2015, 11:56 AM
can you guys synchronize your periods elsewhere? this was supposed to be a rational discussion about the direction of the knicks i thought...

jericho
01-06-2015, 11:58 AM
Dude. You've changed your tune since the summer. You were a big part of the knick fans saying they hade the Atlantic locked up, that getting rid of T Chadler and Felton was the best thing ever, that JR was a 6th man candidate, that Shump would take a huge step forward, that Bargnani would rock the world in the triangle, that T Murray was solid, dally would be better than Tyson, a couple weeks of learning the triangle system would change knick basketball, knicks bench was one of the deepest in the league, the east was wide open for you this year, you didn't need draft picks because all the stars would flock to NY for Phil, Calderon was perfect to run the triangle, Phil had pull to get the best coach, last year was just a bad year due to injury, 50 games!, Melo is healthy and will dominate, your 3rd string PG may dominate starters with his speed, Dolan interference with the team was the only reason they weren't winning... I know I've missed a bunch.

A lot of effort was given to getting you guys to become realistic of your team but it's only now coming across to you.

You can't suck balls, you have very few picks.

I was thinking of taking a business course.. Which one did you take?

Show me even ONE fan that said that???

Dude, you're so transparent... you have a deep rooted hate for NY in general... and it seethes out in all your posts. You are always making things up just to try to make a fan base look as bad you perceive them and want them to be... it's quite pathetic.

Dude I'm another Knicks fan and their has been plenty of other posters that actually made those claims.

nycericanguy
01-06-2015, 12:01 PM
Dude I'm another Knicks fan and their has been plenty of other posters that actually made those claims.

so show me just ONE? I never saw any knick fan say they had the atlantic wrapped up...

did some think we had a chance? sure... with a lil luck and if things went our way... but that's a far cry from saying we have the division locked up...

PhillyFaninLA
01-06-2015, 12:01 PM
Difference is that the Sixers keep on doing it and haven't spent any money yet. If the Knicks don't spend in free agency and tank again next year then it's a bad move.

So when exactly are the Sixers going to cash in on all these high draft picks and money?? Probably need to sign some vets to get the thing back on track.

This is year 2 of a 2 year tank job

edit:

It looks like we were tanking longer because we were bad but trying. We had bad contracts that needed to go which our new owner, GM, and coach made happen, and it was not this past draft, but the one prior that we traded Jrue Holiday, and it was about 12 months ago we started trading away the NBA talent that was on our roster.

We have some nice bench players and if Embiid comes back healthy and is the real deal, if Saric is the real deal when he comes over, and MCW and Noel develop we have a nice core and it is not terrible with guys like McDermot, Grant, and Wroten off the bench.

This offseason we get a shooting guard and buy out Saric's Turkey contract and have a ton of money in cap space with a young and potentially promising team with the 3rd most winning franchise in NBA history with the 5th most titles NBA history looking to turn it around, may be attractive so some free agents.

Crackadalic
01-06-2015, 12:06 PM
Dude. You've changed your tune since the summer. You were a big part of the knick fans saying they hade the Atlantic locked up, that getting rid of T Chadler and Felton was the best thing ever, that JR was a 6th man candidate, that Shump would take a huge step forward, that Bargnani would rock the world in the triangle, that T Murray was solid, dally would be better than Tyson, a couple weeks of learning the triangle system would change knick basketball, knicks bench was one of the deepest in the league, the east was wide open for you this year, you didn't need draft picks because all the stars would flock to NY for Phil, Calderon was perfect to run the triangle, Phil had pull to get the best coach, last year was just a bad year due to injury, 50 games!, Melo is healthy and will dominate, your 3rd string PG may dominate starters with his speed, Dolan interference with the team was the only reason they weren't winning... I know I've missed a bunch.

A lot of effort was given to getting you guys to become realistic of your team but it's only now coming across to you.

You can't suck balls, you have very few picks.

I was thinking of taking a business course.. Which one did you take?

Show me a post where I said the knicks were winning the atlantic. You can check my post history. I had the Raps winning the Atlantic with the knicks" IF EVEYRTHING GOES RIGHT" a slight chance in winning because they had enough talent. What I didn't forsee is how bad the defense was and us getting hit with injuries hard.

So don't put words in my mouth buddy

Tyson Chandler was not resigning with us. I repeat WILL NOT RESIGN.

We got jose as insurence if we fail to land a pg in the summer. We got early who everyone said was a 1st round talent that fell in the 2nd round. We got greek freak bro who is really good on defense and we have a center over seas. So for a guy who is not coming back we got something to build on moving forward to either develop them or build them enough to trade for a star.

As much as I hate JR lately he still was a 6th man candidate. The dude did win it so idk what your talking about

Shump played as well as he did the first 10 games and just got inconsistence. It is what it is with him

Jose is still a good fit in the triangle. he just a borderline starter now but is still a big upgrade from felton

Dal was a failure so i can't say much about that

Nobody said Phil was getting the best coach. Just the coach he can groom

You had like 6 posters scream 50 wins so ridicule them. Not the whole fanbase

Who the **** said larkin was gonna dominate starters with his speed. Now your just talking ****

Dolan for a fact was interfering with the team for the last 15 years.

And I'm referring to being bad this year to get a top pick. Everything after is just building chemistry

Business Solutions. I'll show you where to apply if your up for it my simple minded friend

Crackadalic
01-06-2015, 12:08 PM
so show me just ONE? I never saw any knick fan say they had the atlantic wrapped up...

did some think we had a chance? sure... with a lil luck and if things went our way... but that's a far cry from saying we have the division locked up...

Knicks boogie and K4FY buts thats it lol. There huge homers though

deaner
01-06-2015, 12:11 PM
It's whatever. I for one would love for fans not to get blinders on about their team. Inject some reality into your teams future. Instead of saying Jose is going to tell his BFF to sign in NY... Take a step back, think, and let reality speak to you. Jose didn't sign with NY he was traded. He has to play for his contract, Jose may not be enjoying his time in NY. Jose likes to win, we are not winning. Take a time out and come up with the other side of the coin and ask yourself why Marc would stay.

Vampirate
01-06-2015, 12:12 PM
Show me even ONE fan that said that???

Dude, you're so transparent... you have a deep rooted hate for NY in general... and it seethes out in all your posts. You are always making things up just to try to make a fan base look as bad you perceive them and want them to be... it's quite pathetic.

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?870950-Expectations-for-Next-Season

I know you are one of the more logical Knicks fans, but to provide a sample, pretty much look at any of the posts Knicks Boogie makes here lol. I remember reading this thread because I am always interested what fans, especially ones in the Atlantic Division think about their teams versus the others.

Crackadalic
01-06-2015, 12:16 PM
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?870950-Expectations-for-Next-Season

I know you are one of the more logical Knicks fans, but to provide a sample, pretty much look at any of the posts Knicks Boogie makes here lol. I remember reading this thread because I am always interested what fans, especially ones in the Atlantic Division think about their teams versus the others.

Boogie is a homer. What team doesn't have one like that. You got guys who think Kobe is still good this year. (and I'm a big Kobe fan)

deaner
01-06-2015, 12:20 PM
Show me a post where I said the knicks were winning the atlantic. You can check my post history. I had the Raps winning the Atlantic with the knicks" IF EVEYRTHING GOES RIGHT" a slight chance in winning because they had enough talent. What I didn't forsee is how bad the defense was and us getting hit with injuries hard.

So don't put words in my mouth buddy

Tyson Chandler was not resigning with us. I repeat WILL NOT RESIGN.

We got jose as insurence if we fail to land a pg in the summer. We got early who everyone said was a 1st round talent that fell in the 2nd round. We got greek freak bro who is really good on defense and we have a center over seas. So for a guy who is not coming back we got something to build on moving forward to either develop them or build them enough to trade for a star.

As much as I hate JR lately he still was a 6th man candidate. The dude did win it so idk what your talking about

Shump played as well as he did the first 10 games and just got inconsistence. It is what it is with him

Jose is still a good fit in the triangle. he just a borderline starter now but is still a big upgrade from felton

Dal was a failure so i can't say much about that

Nobody said Phil was getting the best coach. Just the coach he can groom

You had like 6 posters scream 50 wins so ridicule them. Not the whole fanbase

Who the **** said larkin was gonna dominate starters with his speed. Now your just talking ****

Dolan for a fact was interfering with the team for the last 15 years.

And I'm referring to being bad this year to get a top pick. Everything after is just building chemistry

Business Solutions. I'll show you where to apply if your up for it my simple minded friend

.

Vampirate
01-06-2015, 12:21 PM
Boogie is a homer. What team doesn't have one like that. You got guys who think Kobe is still good this year. (and I'm a big Kobe fan)

Yeah but he said to provide ONE example, so I did lol.

Heck I even said that they 'could win in the low 50s if everything went right' but that was pretty much their absolute cieling and obviously the floor I put them at around somewhere at 35 wins, I didn't know exactly where to put them, boy was I wrong.

2-ONE-5
01-06-2015, 12:25 PM
hahaha now all the knicks fans saying they only had the div if everything went right. get that bull **** outta hereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Crackadalic
01-06-2015, 12:28 PM
hahaha now all the knicks fans saying they only had the div if everything went right. get that bull **** outta hereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Crazier things have happen. The damn bucks is in the playoffs

KnickNyKnick
01-06-2015, 12:32 PM
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?870950-Expectations-for-Next-Season

I know you are one of the more logical Knicks fans, but to provide a sample, pretty much look at any of the posts Knicks Boogie makes here lol. I remember reading this thread because I am always interested what fans, especially ones in the Atlantic Division think about their teams versus the others.

im laughing historically at the few overconfident posts. there arent many though rofl

Crackadalic
01-06-2015, 12:35 PM
im laughing historically at the few overconfident posts. there arent many though rofl

I honestly believe we would have a 45ish team and that the east would be stronger lol But not Atlantic champs though i left the door crack for that possibility

Hawkeye15
01-06-2015, 12:37 PM
they were in a painful scenario forever with their cap and talent level. As painful as this year is for Knicks fans, it could turn quickly over the next 1-2 years, no doubt.

koreancabbage
01-06-2015, 12:38 PM
Knicks best case is obviously targeting two big time free agents that fit and filling in the roster.

of course, the worst case is two free agents that don't fit and will be a disaster (though not very likely)

I'm putting the money on them being good or at least 4-5 seed next season if they play their cards right.

BGeer091
01-06-2015, 12:39 PM
Genius? I'm not sure it's a genius move.. However it could turn into one.

At this moment its a good move. Obviously it creates cap space for us in the future, and it gets rid of a player who was going against the current. It was clear that J.R wasn't really interested in playing in the triangle for a losing team. Had we had gotten a 1st rounder too, then it became a great move. So another important part of this, is that the young guys will get more minutes. We need to try and evaluate these young players, so we know who can cut it. As it sits now we have some good young players that could really develop into good role players. I love what Acy, Aldrich and Larkin bring to us. I believe with a complete roster, they settle in as good role players. Hardaway and Early are real wild cards here. They both have the potential to be very good. I'm not saying superstars, but very good players. The minutes that just opened up due to this trade are good for both of them. We need to see how they respond to more minutes, and more responsibility. So I like that trade because it greatly benefits us in the long term. It also sends a message in the short term, that if you don't fall in line with the way Phil wants the Knicks to be you're out. That's an important message! We have had way to many people just do what they want to do without consequence. It looks like that time has changed for good.

Now while the move isn't genius, it could be part of a genius plan. I think there is a few moves left to make. Calderon is not the answer for us at PG. If we can somehow move him without taking on any cap for next year then the plan is really looking great. I had high hopes for Calderon, but i'm not sure he's a starting PG anymore. Well for us anyways. He should go to a contending team at the deadline, to bolster a bench.

The ability to sign 2 max players is huge. Especially added to the fact we will most likely be picking in the top 3. I know most think it's a forgone conclusion that Gasol stays in Memphis. I was one of them. I actually think there is a better chance at landing him now, because of the ability to bring in 2 guys instead of one.

So for me if we end up with this roster going forward, then it will in fact be genius.

Jackson/Larkin
Butler/Hardaway
Melo/Greak Freak 2
Okafor/Acy/
Gasol/Aldrich

2-ONE-5
01-06-2015, 12:44 PM
Crazier things have happen. The damn bucks is in the playoffs

*are in.

not what im talking about though. Very few, if any Knicks fans said "if everything goes right" we win the div. they trashed the Raps all offseason and crowned themselves atlantic champs

koreancabbage
01-06-2015, 12:53 PM
*are in.

not what im talking about though. Very few, if any Knicks fans said "if everything goes right" we win the div. they trashed the Raps all offseason and crowned themselves atlantic champs

well to be fair, they did have that flukey season where they finished second overall. well warranted last season.

though, not very warranted this past offseason. and the moment they said it was a three headed race between the Knicks/Nets/ Raptors. Some of them even said 4 headed race, including Philly in the conversation as well

jericho
01-06-2015, 12:57 PM
Dude I'm another Knicks fan and their has been plenty of other posters that actually made those claims.

so show me just ONE? I never saw any knick fan say they had the atlantic wrapped up...

did some think we had a chance? sure... with a lil luck and if things went our way... but that's a far cry from saying we have the division locked up...

Dude you can easily look it up. I'm not gonna do that for you. It's there on PSD. Specially the Raptors fans arguing with us Knicks fan about it.

xxplayerxx23
01-06-2015, 12:57 PM
It comes down to The ofFseason If they get the first pick in the draft sign gasol + Wes Matthews + solid rotation fillers then it's a really nice move

koreancabbage
01-06-2015, 12:59 PM
Dude you can easily look it up. I'm not gonna do that for you. It's there on PSD. Specially the Raptors fans arguing with us Knicks fan about it.

i don't think they said it was all wrapped up but they were confident they were going to be there all season long with the chance of winning it. but basically the same wrong thing: overconfidence in this Knicks team

well if the Knicks weren't tanking now, they are now.

jericho
01-06-2015, 01:00 PM
so show me just ONE? I never saw any knick fan say they had the atlantic wrapped up...

did some think we had a chance? sure... with a lil luck and if things went our way... but that's a far cry from saying we have the division locked up...

Knicks boogie and K4FY buts thats it lol. There huge homers though

I know we have our differences big time but thanks for the info lol

LOOTERX9
01-06-2015, 01:01 PM
Melo can't fit with Marc gasol. Team will be slow and boring. Melo is the problem and needs to be traded. This guy is a black hole

xxplayerxx23
01-06-2015, 01:03 PM
I think they should try and move calderon any way they can for a salary dump. Expirings even throw in Larkin. Do that and they would have close to 40 mill in cap space lol.

JEDean89
01-06-2015, 01:12 PM
Melo can't fit with Marc gasol. Team will be slow and boring. Melo is the problem and needs to be traded. This guy is a black hole

you would think the same about randolph and gasol but it works well

Federal Reserve
01-06-2015, 01:14 PM
Do people not realize that a young Tim Duncan is available in the draft? He is a lock in for the hall of fame. The only thing that can stop him is injuries. If the Knicks can get lucky enough to get the first pick, they will become the best team in the NBA.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-06-2015, 01:22 PM
yeah and what happened last time when they had a lot of money to spend...

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-06-2015, 01:26 PM
Do people not realize that a young Tim Duncan is available in the draft? He is a lock in for the hall of fame. The only thing that can stop him is injuries. If the Knicks can get lucky enough to get the first pick, they will become the best team in the NBA.

:laugh:

xxplayerxx23
01-06-2015, 01:28 PM
Do people not realize that a young Tim Duncan is available in the draft? He is a lock in for the hall of fame. The only thing that can stop him is injuries. If the Knicks can get lucky enough to get the first pick, they will become the best team in the NBA.


Lord have mercy

Jamiecballer
01-06-2015, 01:33 PM
Do people not realize that a young Tim Duncan is available in the draft? He is a lock in for the hall of fame. The only thing that can stop him is injuries. If the Knicks can get lucky enough to get the first pick, they will become the best team in the NBA.
Wow really? Who are we talking about?

BIG worm
01-06-2015, 01:37 PM
Do people not realize that a young Tim Duncan is available in the draft? He is a lock in for the hall of fame. The only thing that can stop him is injuries. If the Knicks can get lucky enough to get the first pick, they will become the best team in the NBA.

Do you watch basketball?

NJrockPD
01-06-2015, 01:37 PM
We should be praising the Cavs. They raped this trade.

Vampirate
01-06-2015, 01:38 PM
Marc would go to Toronto before he goes to New York imo, and the chances of Toronto landing Marc are slim as it is.

BlueandWhite
01-06-2015, 01:39 PM
With the East being as weak as it is, the Knicks could be back in the top 3-4 teams within one season if Jackson plays his cards right.

I just don't think the east is as WEAK as everyone thinks it is. I think Atlanta, Washington, Raptors are all really really good basketball teams. I don't know about the other two but the Raptors have so much flexibility next year with expiring contracts.

Chicago is possibly the best team in the NBA. Cleveland, with Lebron, will be a top team in the east.

Thats 5 teams I will put above the Knicks, not matter who they draft/trade/sign.

If you told me the Cavs were going to get Love and Lebron to add with Irving I would assume they would be better then Atl/Wash/Raps. If you said The Lakers were going to get Nash and Howard to go with Bryant, I would think Championship. Its not as simple as adding constructing a successful team in one season. Miami did it, but it isn't that easy.

Lets wait at least a week before we call them geniuses that complete a rebuild in one season.

BIG worm
01-06-2015, 01:44 PM
Dude. You've changed your tune since the summer. You were a big part of the knick fans saying they hade the Atlantic locked up, that getting rid of T Chadler and Felton was the best thing ever, that JR was a 6th man candidate, that Shump would take a huge step forward, that Bargnani would rock the world in the triangle, that T Murray was solid, dally would be better than Tyson, a couple weeks of learning the triangle system would change knick basketball, knicks bench was one of the deepest in the league, the east was wide open for you this year, you didn't need draft picks because all the stars would flock to NY for Phil, Calderon was perfect to run the triangle, Phil had pull to get the best coach, last year was just a bad year due to injury, 50 games!, Melo is healthy and will dominate, your 3rd string PG may dominate starters with his speed, Dolan interference with the team was the only reason they weren't winning... I know I've missed a bunch.

A lot of effort was given to getting you guys to become realistic of your team but it's only now coming across to you.

You can't suck balls, you have very few picks.

I was thinking of taking a business course.. Which one did you take?

Lol this is so true. Thats all the BS fans were screaming this summer. One even saying Shumpert was on the same level as a Paul George or a Jimmy Butler. Knicks fans overhype and overvalue any thing knicks related.

Stinkyoutsider
01-06-2015, 01:44 PM
Good moves to prepare to rebuild from the ground up.

I think the Knicks patience might be tested this offseason. Phil has to make sure he finds the right guys and not overspend to get them. Use New York as a tool to get players interested (huge market, tons of potential for increasing your brand).

First, Phil has got to find a leader and top player to take this team over from Carmelo. Carmelo is a very talented player but I don't think he's the leader you need for a big club like the Knicks. They need a vocal leader to take over. Possibly a perimeter player who's better overall than Anthony so he can concentrate on scoring (what he does best). No longer have the team built around Melo...

I don't think Gasol leaves Memphis for anything less than the max. It would be a bonus to get him but I would focus on getting player who can take over leadership of the team from Melo imo.

koreancabbage
01-06-2015, 01:44 PM
you would think the same about randolph and gasol but it works well

it works well because Randolph goes after the extra possessions and plays downlow. There is a reason why they traded all their chuckers away from the wings. Randolph gives them inside presense when this league is far and few from having a superior front court compared to the Griz

koreancabbage
01-06-2015, 01:45 PM
Marc would go to Toronto before he goes to New York imo, and the chances of Toronto landing Marc are slim as it is.

na. If the NY gets another big time free agent, I could see Marc going to NY.

Federal Reserve
01-06-2015, 01:46 PM
Lol this is so true. Thats all the BS fans were screaming this summer. One even saying Shumpert was on the same level as a Paul George or a Jimmy Butler. Knicks fans overhype and overvalue any thing knicks related.

Bulls fans were saying that Rose would return back in his top form. The guy has looked like a backup role player. Many Bulls fans said Pau Gasol was a bad fit for the Bulls. I can continue.

GiantsSwaGG
01-06-2015, 01:48 PM
na. If the NY gets another big time free agent, I could see Marc going to NY.

Marc isn't coming to the Knicks, he either stays or goes to San Antonio

Vampirate
01-06-2015, 01:48 PM
I honestly believe the Knicks are best off trading Melo due to the Age difference. By the time any draft picks are ready to help him out he'll be on the decline. This is of course assuming they don't package the draft pick to get someone to pair up with Melo, however the Knicks don't have alot of time imo.

koreancabbage
01-06-2015, 01:49 PM
Marc isn't coming to the Knicks, he either stays or goes to San Antonio

you never know. there's always a chance for anything.

koreancabbage
01-06-2015, 01:51 PM
I honestly believe the Knicks are best off trading Melo due to the Age difference. By the time any draft picks are ready to help him out he'll be on the decline. This is of course assuming they don't package the draft pick to get someone to pair up with Melo, however the Knicks don't have alot of time imo.

pretty much. that first rounder will be a role player at best if they sign a whole bunch of players in the upcoming offseason - which will be effectively stunting his growth.

Seeing as they owe their first rounder to the Nuggets next aka Raptors, i don't see them not wanting to suck though. They don't want to give the Raptors a freebie (high draft pick) but it would screw up a proper rebuild.

jimm120
01-06-2015, 01:53 PM
melo will be 31 in 2015-16
melo will be 32 in 2016-17

Players don't start declining until 33 usually.

Melo and the top 5 pick (along with whomever they get in 2015 and 2016) are the ones that will be competing. No Melo means that Knicks probably won't compete in 2015 or 2016 either.

jericho
01-06-2015, 01:55 PM
melo will be 31 in 2015-16
melo will be 32 in 2016-17

Players don't start declining until 33 usually.

Melo and the top 5 pick (along with whomever they get in 2015 and 2016) are the ones that will be competing. No Melo means that Knicks probably won't compete in 2015 or 2016 either.

Oh ok so we have prime Melo competing for a title for just one year. I love our chances.

GiantsSwaGG
01-06-2015, 01:56 PM
you never know. there's always a chance for anything.

Doubt it, we probably have a better shot at Roy Hibbert :(

koreancabbage
01-06-2015, 01:57 PM
melo will be 31 in 2015-16
melo will be 32 in 2016-17

Players don't start declining until 33 usually.

Melo and the top 5 pick (along with whomever they get in 2015 and 2016) are the ones that will be competing. No Melo means that Knicks probably won't compete in 2015 or 2016 either.

Would Knicks fan want:

1) accumulating young talent and draft picks in the next 3-4 years and letting the team grow into a contender, and then signing free agents to help them

or

2) sign 2 max type free agents and try to win in the next 3-4 years with almost no depth (Melo+2 max free agents) - assumingly thats the route Jackson is going for since its ever popular and seeing that its great to a have a big 3 nowadays. and fit could be an issue like the previous regime of Chandler/ Stoudemire/ Melo

GiantsSwaGG
01-06-2015, 01:58 PM
melo will be 31 in 2015-16
melo will be 32 in 2016-17

Players don't start declining until 33 usually.

Melo and the top 5 pick (along with whomever they get in 2015 and 2016) are the ones that will be competing. No Melo means that Knicks probably won't compete in 2015 or 2016 either.

You're forgetting he's logged the most minutes in the NBA, even more than LeBron James and he's on the decline

He's playing the 4, where his body is taking a beating

You can tell he's not as quick

Trading him is not a bad idea

Vampirate
01-06-2015, 02:00 PM
na. If the NY gets another big time free agent, I could see Marc going to NY.

Raptors have a better recent history of winning and a much more complete team, in terms of going for a championship anytime soon the Raptors are a better pick than the Knicks.

Besides it's the chicken or the egg, sure if the Knicks land a star things might change, but you also need to interest that star to sign with the Knicks in the first place.

deaner
01-06-2015, 02:02 PM
Raptors have a better recent history of winning and a much more complete team, in terms of going for a championship anytime soon the Raptors are a better pick than the Knicks.

Besides it's the chicken or the egg, sure if the Knicks land a star things might change, but you also need to interest that star to sign with the Knicks in the first place.

and that they have... room for overpayment. that's not the full story though. This knick's situation is really bad timing. Stripping it down to cap space is normally risky... but add to the situation the TV deal factor of the cap significantly jumping into the equation. Suddenly everyone has money to spend. Not max spots granted.. but teams can wiggle through trades to to create max very easily if they desire.

Jamiecballer
01-06-2015, 02:02 PM
Marc isn't coming to the Knicks, he either stays or goes to San Antonio

that makes a hell of a lot of sense. but in a practical sense, isn't popovich ancient? can he really coach that much longer? it would suck to be stuck in San Antonio with no Duncan, no Popovich.

Vampirate
01-06-2015, 02:03 PM
Doubt it, we probably have a better shot at Roy Hibbert :(

Hibbert wouldn't be bad either and I wouldn't mind if the Raptors went after Hibbert, but he would be a finishing touch piece, Marc is a complete package, Hibbert shores up the defense, not so much offense.

GiantsSwaGG
01-06-2015, 02:04 PM
Raptors have a better recent history of winning and a much more complete team, in terms of going for a championship anytime soon the Raptors are a better pick than the Knicks.

Besides it's the chicken or the egg, sure if the Knicks land a star things might change, but you also need to interest that star to sign with the Knicks in the first place.

You do realize it's not only winning that will attract FA,

I mean Kevin Love would rather go to the Lakers than the Raptors.

Marc isn't going to the Knicks and he isn't going to Toronto. He either stays with Memphis or goes to San Antonio

koreancabbage
01-06-2015, 02:04 PM
Raptors have a better recent history of winning and a much more complete team, in terms of going for a championship anytime soon the Raptors are a better pick than the Knicks.

Besides it's the chicken or the egg, sure if the Knicks land a star things might change, but you also need to interest that star to sign with the Knicks in the first place.

if the Raps clear enough space, then sure, Raps could be in discussion. ATM, Raps don't have the space, as much as I want Gasol

Vampirate
01-06-2015, 02:05 PM
and that they have... room for overpayment.

And we (Raptors) have more tradable assets, though none come as close as this years Knicks first round pick.

Jamiecballer
01-06-2015, 02:05 PM
I really don't get why Melo is even there. He's not a draw for any superstar level player because he don't have the mentality to sacrifice - at all. So even if you do convince a star or 2 to join it's bound to fail. To me he's more hindrance to a big FA signing than a draw.

koreancabbage
01-06-2015, 02:06 PM
You do realize it's not only winning that will attract FA,

I mean Kevin Love would rather go to the Lakers than the Raptors.

Marc isn't going to the Knicks and he isn't going to Toronto. He either stays with Memphis or goes to San Antonio

well Love will go anywhere where he can win. I HIGHLY DOUBT Love goes to Lakers, esp in their current state, if he had a choice right now.

koreancabbage
01-06-2015, 02:07 PM
And we (Raptors) have more tradable assets, though none come as close as this years Knicks first round pick.

what does that even mean when it comes to Gasol, who is a FA?

Vampirate
01-06-2015, 02:07 PM
You do realize it's not only winning that will attract FA,

I mean Kevin Love would rather go to the Lakers than the Raptors.

Marc isn't going to the Knicks and he isn't going to Toronto. He either stays with Memphis or goes to San Antonio

Marc would go to Toronto before he goes to New York imo, and the chances of Toronto landing Marc are slim as it is.

My original post in all this.

Federal Reserve
01-06-2015, 02:15 PM
Marc would go to Toronto before he goes to New York imo, and the chances of Toronto landing Marc are slim as it is.

My original post in all this.

You're wrong.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-06-2015, 02:24 PM
Good move. Absolutely.

Genius. No idea until FA this summer.

For people thinking Gasol will sign for 16, Dragic 14. Pass me what you are smoking. Dragic, yes maybe. Gasol will be a max, and with the cap going up, expect about 19 for the 1st year annual salary considering he's been in the league for 7+ years.

Also, some folks need to figure out how the cap works. Knicks will have 34m committed to 5 players, 38 to 6 players after an assumed top 3 pick. Factor in cap holds for 4 guys takes the Knicks up to 40 million for 10 guys. Knicks would not get the MLE since they are under the cap.

So for a 12 man roster, they'd have about 26 million to spend on the last 2 "stars" they plan to bring in. If Gasol is 1, you're left with 7 million for someone else, which with the rising cap is basically a MLE player.

So a roster of Anthony, Gasol, Calderon, Prigioni, Hardaway, Early, Rookie Pick, 7 million player, and 4 minimum level players. Not to be a homer, but I don't see any chance of making an ECF with that roster against Chi and Cle (assuming Love stays, LBJ isn't going anywhere). And with no 2016 pick, they better bank on whomever they draft this summer developing pretty damn fast considering Melo's age.

D-Leethal
01-06-2015, 02:37 PM
I really don't get why Melo is even there. He's not a draw for any superstar level player because he don't have the mentality to sacrifice - at all. So even if you do convince a star or 2 to join it's bound to fail. To me he's more hindrance to a big FA signing than a draw.

lol, players, coaches and GMs were getting on their knees AND bending over with their cheeks spread to team up with Melo last season. Melo is very respected amongst the NBA's elite, and off the top of my head LeBron, Love, Dwight, Noah and Kobe all stated they would love to play with Melo publicly in just the past year.

D-Leethal
01-06-2015, 02:37 PM
well Love will go anywhere where he can win. I HIGHLY DOUBT Love goes to Lakers, esp in their current state, if he had a choice right now.

Love wants the spotlight and he has basically said as much in the past.

Vampirate
01-06-2015, 02:38 PM
IF Marc isn't interested in resigning, do you think he would let Memphis know so they would do a sign and trade?

Vampirate
01-06-2015, 02:41 PM
lol, players, coaches and GMs were getting on their knees AND bending over with their cheeks spread to team up with Melo last season. Melo is very respected amongst the NBA's elite, and off the top of my head LeBron, Love, Dwight, Noah and Kobe all stated they would love to play with Melo publicly in just the past year.

No doubt true, however the situation around Melo dictates something else entirely.

GiantsSwaGG
01-06-2015, 02:50 PM
well Love will go anywhere where he can win. I HIGHLY DOUBT Love goes to Lakers, esp in their current state, if he had a choice right now.

90% percent of reports had him going to the Lakers if he hit the FA market. It's no secret

More-Than-Most
01-06-2015, 02:53 PM
wont win with melo sorry

2-ONE-5
01-06-2015, 03:02 PM
lol, players, coaches and GMs were getting on their knees AND bending over with their cheeks spread to team up with Melo last season. Melo is very respected amongst the NBA's elite, and off the top of my head LeBron, Love, Dwight, Noah and Kobe all stated they would love to play with Melo publicly in just the past year.

yet no one has come to join him.....

Federal Reserve
01-06-2015, 03:06 PM
yet no one has come to join him.....

When have the Knicks had the SALARY CAP to sign a top player while having Melo on the team? Answer: never. Too bad you are blinded by a myopic vision to see the truth. The Knicks will get some great players this summer.

koreancabbage
01-06-2015, 03:14 PM
90% percent of reports had him going to the Lakers if he hit the FA market. It's no secret

well, he is also reported saying he wouldn't leave the Cavs.... when asked about the Lakers

GiantsSwaGG
01-06-2015, 03:14 PM
When have the Knicks had the SALARY CAP to sign a top player while having Melo on the team? Answer: never. Too bad you are blinded by a myopic vision to see the truth. The Knicks will get some great players this summer.

this might be the first post I agree with you

D-Leethal
01-06-2015, 03:31 PM
yet no one has come to join him.....

Tyson did right after winning a ring...

...and Jason Kidd followed

And since Tyson we have been well over the cap with zero inability to sign FAs.

jimm120
01-06-2015, 03:43 PM
yet no one has come to join him.....

sorry to say, but Amare's contract is the one that didn't allow for a proper team to be built in NY.

If we had held on to that amnesty, we would have had to rely on JR Smith or Bargnani as a #2 scorer. We wouldn't have had to hope that a 7.9 ppg career SG in Iman would become our #2.

Amare brought a lot of hype (though knicks were on a 12-17 slide before acquiring melo). Amare is a warrior. He really does try a ton.

But his contract and level of play from 2011-2015 is what made the roster worse and worse. With Amare doing so poorly, we had to rely on JR Smith. It worked for 5 months in 2012-13. It worked for 1 1/2 months last year. That's pretty much it.

Now we'll be able to build a proper team.

lamzoka
01-06-2015, 03:45 PM
Isn't melo bff with Lebron too?

I don't think marc is leaving...he has an elite team already and he's in his hometown in the states with his family.

Didn't LeBron had an elite team in Miami and still left?

Slimsim
01-06-2015, 04:05 PM
That lottery pick and already having a star in melo make me very optimistic about FA. I don't know why so many people act as if it won't attract players espically if we have cap to add another star and above average talent

Oefarmy2005
01-06-2015, 04:12 PM
It's going to be another let down free agency for NYK. I am not worried about them at all.

2-ONE-5
01-06-2015, 04:13 PM
Tyson did right after winning a ring...

...and Jason Kidd followed

And since Tyson we have been well over the cap with zero inability to sign FAs.

they arent stars.

Jamiecballer
01-06-2015, 04:14 PM
lol, players, coaches and GMs were getting on their knees AND bending over with their cheeks spread to team up with Melo last season. Melo is very respected amongst the NBA's elite, and off the top of my head LeBron, Love, Dwight, Noah and Kobe all stated they would love to play with Melo publicly in just the past year.

sure, of course. isn't so easy to say that when you aren't in position to actually dictate where you are playing anytime soon. let me know when someone actually does it because it sounds like total BS to think that anyone would want to play with the leagues biggest ballhog.

Ty Fast
01-06-2015, 04:18 PM
If I was Phill Id target Dragic and Gasol.

16 million for Gasol per year
14 million for Dragic per year

And hope to god they accept. That would be a good start. A top pick wont hurt.

It might take more to get those guys but if the Knicks trade Calderon they free up another 7.5 million.

Jamiecballer
01-06-2015, 04:19 PM
Tyson did right after winning a ring...

...and Jason Kidd followed

And since Tyson we have been well over the cap with zero inability to sign FAs.

that's great but you are missing the point because neither of those guys would be any competition for the ball. how about players that actually are scorers? there are very few players like Chandler that can be a complete game changer without a single play run for them. i'm sure as far as he's concerned Melo can have the ball on every play, that's not the point. players, particularly scorers, have egos. they want theirs. nobody has proven less pliable than Melo when it comes to adjusting his game.

ChitownSports16
01-06-2015, 05:16 PM
Poor Knick fans, getting their hopes up yet again..

D-Leethal
01-06-2015, 05:17 PM
sure, of course. isn't so easy to say that when you aren't in position to actually dictate where you are playing anytime soon. let me know when someone actually does it because it sounds like total BS to think that anyone would want to play with the leagues biggest ballhog.

They were trying to get Melo to come to their teams, and their teams did indeed have the ability to acquire him and bent over with lube and all to make it happen. Real basketball players tend to see things differently than pivot table masters such as yourself.

D-Leethal
01-06-2015, 05:20 PM
that's great but you are missing the point because neither of those guys would be any competition for the ball. how about players that actually are scorers? there are very few players like Chandler that can be a complete game changer without a single play run for them. i'm sure as far as he's concerned Melo can have the ball on every play, that's not the point. players, particularly scorers, have egos. they want theirs. nobody has proven less pliable than Melo when it comes to adjusting his game.

Now its scorers only? Backtrack much? Why would we want to pair a volume scorer with Melo anyway? I don't think one guy we are targeting is a volume scorer 25ppg 1st option scorer so there is plenty reason to believe our targets would love to play with Melo.

Your opinion is obviously very different than the opinion of actual basketball players and NBA decision makers. I'll take theirs. Even your God Microsoft Morey had the lube and anal beads ready for Melo.

D-Leethal
01-06-2015, 05:21 PM
Poor Knick fans, getting their hopes up yet again..

Kinda like you guys last year - billboards, lube and all...

Vinylman
01-06-2015, 05:24 PM
He's proven he can tear it down. That's about it. What GM in the NBA couldn't do that?

mitch kupchak

Jamiecballer
01-06-2015, 05:25 PM
Now its scorers only? Backtrack much? Why would we want to pair a volume scorer with Melo anyway?

it's not a backtrack. 90% of the leagues superstars are scorers or at the least really high usage players. if you hadn't offered the example of Tyson Chandler i would have let the statement stand for itself because i think most people get that.

D-Leethal
01-06-2015, 05:28 PM
it's not a backtrack. 90% of the leagues superstars are scorers. if you hadn't offered the example of Tyson Chandler i would have let the statement stand for itself because i think most people get that.

I added to my post. None of our top targets are superstar scorers - why the hell would they be? On top of the fact that there really aren't any available. We need to add defensive guys, rugged bigs and a point guard. Melo will handle the first option scoring just fine. We need proficient 2nd/3rd tier scorers but we don't need any top 10 scorers. Guys like Monroe, Jackson, Dragic, Gasol might not come here for a lot of reasons - but its not because they are gonna get pissed because Melo shoots more than them. Were not talking about adding Kobe or Harden here (although Harden didn't seem to mind the statue put outside for Melo during the recruiting process).

Jamiecballer
01-06-2015, 05:32 PM
They were trying to get Melo to come to their teams, and their teams did indeed have the ability to acquire him and bent over with lube and all to make it happen. Real basketball players tend to see things differently than pivot table masters such as yourself.

you don't see the difference between a player advocating that a free agent come join their team and players leaving their plush situation and *hoping* that Melo will adjust his game to allow them to thrive as well. i can see why you are confused then.

everybody wants talented people to come to "their" team. that means nothing. the expectation is that you come, and you adjust to fit in. this is my team, everybody here knows that. so sure Melo, you can come here. that means absolutely nothing. when somebody has confidence that Melo will adjust in his "hometown" to accommodate them, you will see somebody join him. then you can say see i told you so.

TheIlladelph16
01-06-2015, 05:40 PM
Wasn't it only a couple months ago that many Knicks fans were arguing up and down there was no reason they couldn't get back to 50+ wins this season? I would think at this point that the confidence should be knocked down many, many pegs (and yes I realize this thread wasn't created by a Knicks fan).

Like all things with the Knicks, I'll take a wait and see approach. They could sign some impact FAs or those impact guys could choose to sign with a team with a more consistent recent past.

BIG worm
01-06-2015, 05:44 PM
Kinda like you guys last year - billboards, lube and all...

Or like the knicks every damn year. All knicks fans have is hype though, so i get it.

NYKnickFanatic
01-06-2015, 05:52 PM
Or like the knicks every damn year. All knicks fans have is hype though, so i get it.

I'm not going to try and argue that the Knicks are better than the Bulls, because everyone and their mother knows we are not. So don't think I'm saying we are better than the Bulls or any other NBA team. We suck. The Knicks suck. We had ONE good season, in so many years.

But what have the Bulls done? Top team in the East? Ok. Made the playoffs? Ok. Advanced to the next round? Ok

Every year they choke in the playoffs, when they have such high aspirations.

deaner
01-06-2015, 06:22 PM
mitch kupchak

Because his market and ownership dictate that

colinskik
01-06-2015, 06:31 PM
you have to develop players before you waste money on vets FA's. How is Calderon and Sammy D working out in Ny or Frye in Orlando?

You're not serious ... right?

Calderon and Dalembert weren't brought to NY as the veteran presence to help young players. And they weren't brought in as FA either. They were brought in as part of the trade dump that effectively helped rid us of Felton's contract.

As for Frye, well I've never been a big fan of his so never thought it was a good move. However, when you bring in vets to help the kiddies grow, you bring in more than just one vet. You bring in a couple of guys. Whether they play or not is irrelevant. It's about their presence more than anything.

PurpleJesus
01-06-2015, 06:37 PM
The Knicks plan to rebuild is always to clear space to throw money at big stars, because there is this perception with the team and fans that everyone wants to play for them.

KnicksorBust
01-06-2015, 06:39 PM
The Knicks plan to rebuild is always to clear space to throw money at big stars, because there is this perception with the team and fans that everyone wants to play for them.

Worked pretty well when we won 54 games and made it to the 2nd round.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-06-2015, 06:47 PM
Worked pretty well when we won 54 games and made it to the 2nd round.
So 1 good year per decade and a half?

Not implying the poster was right or wrong, but your response basically proves him right.

PurpleJesus
01-06-2015, 06:49 PM
Worked pretty well when we won 54 games and made it to the 2nd round.

k...

KnicksorBust
01-06-2015, 06:56 PM
Worked pretty well when we won 54 games and made it to the 2nd round.
So 1 good year per decade and a half?

Not implying the poster was right or wrong, but your response basically proves him right.

Your joking right? You want to call it a bad strategy because we got decimated by injuries? Thats bad luck not poor management.

smith&wesson
01-06-2015, 06:56 PM
I do want to give the Knicks some credit here. They are going to be able to rebuild after one season... Teams like the 76ers have been tanking for 3 crap seasons with the same goal in mind.

LegendDenzo
01-06-2015, 06:59 PM
to defend Melo cuz all I hear is Melo needs to be traded... he's never really had any superstar along side him like Lebron has had in Miami (only reason he has 2 rings today pairing up with 2 superstars), like Durant has, like CP3 has(CP3 still hasn't won ****). so bashing Melo should first start with bashing Durant n CP3, (and yes i know they play in the west thanks for the thought) cuz Durant hasn't done much but win a bunch of scoring titles, and 1 western conference championship that didn't mean much getting 4-1'ed in the finals, but look at his god damn team.. Melo has never had superstars to play with. made it to the western conference finals after trading an old AI for Billups. But Kobe won an NBA chip that year. be patient, Trust In Phil.

On a more important note: We should look to dump Calderon now. $7+Mil can be used for a better and younger pg next year giving us around 37-40Mill to get an all-star or 2, but i'll settle for 1 all-star and a bunch of good pieces. Along with hopes of landing Okafor in the Draft, we have so many options to start building a really solid squad that can destroy the East.

Realistic addition options:
Pg's: Dragic, R Jackson, B Knight
Sg's: J Buttler, Wes Matthews, D Green
Sf's: Jeff Green(maybe move Melo to pf or Green to SG when on the court together)
Pf's: Millsap, D West, KG, B Bass
C's: Gasol, Al Jefferson, Hibbert, D Jordan, G Monroe

Dream Additions, Not Realistic unless Phil really is the truth:
Pg- Rondo
Sf- LBJ, K Leonard
Pf- Aldridge, K Love

colinskik
01-06-2015, 07:04 PM
The Knicks plan to rebuild is always to clear space to throw money at big stars, because there is this perception with the team and fans that everyone wants to play for them.

Unlike 2010 we already have a star on the roster, we have a draft pick which will be very high, and we have even more money than the last go around. Plus, we have a man at the helm who gets the ultimate respect.

I'm not saying we're going to turn it around in one year and compete for the chip, but I do like the way things are shaping up better than 2010.

PurpleJesus
01-06-2015, 07:06 PM
Unlike 2010 we already have a star on the roster, we have a draft pick which will be very high, and we have even more money than the last go around. Plus, we have a man at the helm who gets the ultimate respect.

I'm not saying we're going to turn it around in one year and compete for the chip, but I do like the way things are shaping up better than 2010.
Yeah, I guess I can see it a bit. Phil Jackson is no joke, and having Melo already should help a lot...its just that we seem to hear this story every year..."Knicks targeting super star free agent to be for the offseason!" Maybe its different now with Phil there, and Melo locked up.

deaner
01-06-2015, 07:14 PM
Yeah, I guess I can see it a bit. Phil Jackson is no joke, and having Melo already should help a lot...its just that we seem to hear this story every year..."Knicks targeting super star free agent to be for the offseason!" Maybe its different now with Phil there, and Melo locked up.

wait... a locked up Melo with the injuries and performances he's had this year is a GOOD thing?

lamzoka
01-06-2015, 07:20 PM
Unlike 2010 we already have a star on the roster, we have a draft pick which will be very high, and we have even more money than the last go around. Plus, we have a man at the helm who gets the ultimate respect.

I'm not saying we're going to turn it around in one year and compete for the chip, but I do like the way things are shaping up better than 2010.


Bro a lot of these posters which their team was in the position the Knicks is right now.

I always thought it was impossible to build a championship team overnight, till Celtics did it in 2008. They had like the 2nd worst record the season prior traded that pick (Jeff Green) to the Sonics for Ray Allen. Then traded for KG. The rest is history.

The Knicks is in a great position. There a light at the end of the tunnel

Top 3 pick, plus the most cap space in the NBA along with Melo. THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT!!!!

andy2518
01-06-2015, 07:24 PM
Have yet to be seen. I like the move though.

andy2518
01-06-2015, 07:26 PM
Bro a lot of these posters which their team was in the position the Knicks is right now.

I always thought it was impossible to build a championship team overnight, till Celtics did it in 2008. They had like the 2nd worst record the season prior traded that pick (Jeff Green) to the Sonics for Ray Allen. Then traded for KG. The rest is history.

The Knicks is in a great position. There a light at the end of the tunnel

Top 3 pick, plus the most cap space in the NBA along with Melo. THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT!!!!

Great point.

Silent
01-06-2015, 07:29 PM
they need to target Dragic And Monroe the rest aint going no where

Draco
01-06-2015, 07:37 PM
Lebron.

PurpleLynch
01-06-2015, 07:44 PM
Phil will also consider players who could potentially fit in the triangle:Dragic and Gasol is the best case scenario for sure.Both high bball IQ and strong passing game.Plus both good shooters(Gasol has a beautiful post game and a decent mid range).

colinskik
01-06-2015, 07:45 PM
Yeah, I guess I can see it a bit. Phil Jackson is no joke, and having Melo already should help a lot...its just that we seem to hear this story every year..."Knicks targeting super star free agent to be for the offseason!" Maybe its different now with Phil there, and Melo locked up.

Believe me, I'm sick of hearing that as well but for a different reason ... because I'm always getting my hopes up just to come crashing down to earth in a pile of wreckage.

It's not very fun being a Knicks fan, so when we get some good news we tend to overreact as a fan base. You can't really blame us all that much. Haven't had lots to cheer for these past 15 years. But this actually seems like a realistic scenario that may work out. And if it doesn't, well then back to what we're used to.

colinskik
01-06-2015, 07:49 PM
wait... a locked up Melo with the injuries and performances he's had this year is a GOOD thing?

Yes, yes it is.

He gets to rest this year a la Wade in '08, and then hopefully build a team around him that actually makes sense and isn't "clumsy" as Phil said before he took over.

Remember, when Melo plays alongside other legit talent (which has rarely happened in his career) he's as close to unstoppable as you get. Best example was the last team USA Olympic performance. He was basically the star of that team.

GodsSon
01-06-2015, 07:56 PM
Phil has set the table to literally handpick every piece on this roster going forward. Should be very interesting to see what happens. Does the Zen Master do it again or does NY eat Phish alive?

Do what again?

He doesn't have Jordan/Pippen or Shaq/Kobe this time...

KnicksorBust
01-06-2015, 08:17 PM
they need to target Dragic And Monroe the rest aint going no where

I actually agree with this that they are the two most likely to bolt among the top names. Put them with a top 3 pick and we become relevant in the East.

-The Mekka-
01-06-2015, 08:33 PM
I think it was pretty smart, Hardaway Jr instantly becomes a major part of the rotation which allows to see if hes is truly starter/all-star material or just a scorer off the bench. It also gets rid of 2 underperforming players though the knicks got basically absolutely nothing back. It also all but guarantees tanking this year and securing a top 3 pick to pair with Melo, Hardaway (if he emerges) and all the cap space

-The Mekka-
01-06-2015, 08:36 PM
I actually agree with this that they are the two most likely to bolt among the top names. Put them with a top 3 pick and we become relevant in the East.

If Hardway can step up to be a consistent 18 ppg scorer efficiently and we can sign Monroe that would be terrific. I really want an attacking PG though, I feel thats a necessity in todays NBA, Dragic fits that mold

albertajaysfan
01-06-2015, 08:44 PM
Solid trade but this is only a small step of the rebuilding process.

As long as Phil can remain patient it will pay off. Rebuilding in one season probably won't happen but this is definitely the right move. It saves them money this season. Opens up cap space for the off season. Clearly makes this season about who is worth keeping.

I am definitely curious to see where Phil goes from here.

smith&wesson
01-06-2015, 09:03 PM
If the Knicks can clear more cap space, maybe about 33 million ...I honestly think that they should target these players

Wesley Mathews 11 million per year
Dragic 13 million per year
Monroe 8-9 million per year

and if there is any money left over I would inquire with a player like Marcus Thornton to see if he could be had for cheap to secure some depth on the wings.

KnicksorBust
01-06-2015, 09:07 PM
If the Knicks can clear more cap space, maybe about 33 million ...I honestly think that they should target these players

Wesley Mathews 11 million per year
Dragic 13 million per year
Monroe 8-9 million per year

and if there is any money left over I would inquire with a player like Marcus Thornton to see if he could be had for cheap to secure some depth on the wings.

Monroe goes for a lot more than that. We have enough $ for two names not 3.

2-ONE-5
01-06-2015, 10:10 PM
I do want to give the Knicks some credit here. They are going to be able to rebuild after one season... Teams like the 76ers have been tanking for 3 crap seasons with the same goal in mind.

lol you mean about a season and a half or the Sixers, dumbass.

AI
01-06-2015, 10:14 PM
Monroe goes for a lot more than that. We have enough $ for two names not 3.

Could they sign Gasol to a max, sign someone like Wesley Matthews and then trade Calderon, Hardaway Jr. and picks for Dragic?

Goran Dragic
Wesley Matthews
Carmelo Anthony
Marc Gasol

Is a nice core and they'd still have the top pick from this year.

KnicksorBust
01-06-2015, 10:36 PM
Monroe goes for a lot more than that. We have enough $ for two names not 3.

Could they sign Gasol to a max, sign someone like Wesley Matthews and then trade Calderon, Hardaway Jr. and picks for Dragic?

Goran Dragic
Wesley Matthews
Carmelo Anthony
Marc Gasol

Is a nice core and they'd still have the top pick from this year.

Talk about best case scenario. Lmao. Even I try not to fantasy book that much. :)

AI
01-06-2015, 10:37 PM
Talk about best case scenario. Lmao. Even I try not to fantasy book that much. :)

Forget about the names, is it possible financially?

ohreally
01-06-2015, 10:54 PM
Other than Melo, Knicks will basically have no one on the team. So they'll need a center, a point guard, a starting caliber shooting guard, , a power forward, and back ups just about across the board. There is just no way for them to get to being a real contender next year, and every move they made would have to be perfectly golden to be a real counter in 16-17, when Melo would be 33 if they miraculously found themselves in the finals.

I just can't see Marc going to New York when he loves Memphis and the team is doing very well this year. Atlanta is doing well so Milsap is a long shot as well. Butler? They would really have to max him out if they had a shot at tempting him, and there will be lots of competition, not to mention he's restricted. I just don't see game changers that can take this team from where they are to being truly competitive. Everyone, it seems, is sort of drunk on Phil, who really has done nothing other than get rid of guys so far.

Before the season, most folks were picking New York to be #2 in the Atlantic this year, and that was non-Knick fans as well as "level headed" Knick fans. That was absurd, but nothing compared to this reaction to giving away one of their "prime" trade chips for a 2019 2nd.

Knicks may have needed to get rid of these guys, but it doesn't really do anything for the team other than open slots. Filling them is the hard part.

xxplayerxx23
01-06-2015, 10:58 PM
Monroe goes for a lot more than that. We have enough $ for two names not 3.


Unless they move Jose. Also seeing Wes get like 8-9 monroe 12-14

flclfanman
01-06-2015, 11:05 PM
They wont get Gasol. Why would he leave one of the best teams in the west and a team that wants to max him out for a coinflip and a new offense to learn with an oft-injured Melo?

Also, Rondo in the triangle= projectile vomiting in motion

FYL_McVeezy
01-06-2015, 11:20 PM
Genius move? Nah, not yet at least....


The right move? You bet your *** it was, and don't try to tell me any different....

Burn it down Phil!

KnicksorBust
01-06-2015, 11:28 PM
Monroe goes for a lot more than that. We have enough $ for two names not 3.


Unless they move Jose. Also seeing Wes get like 8-9 monroe 12-14

Wes is making almost 7 this year off a contract he signed as an unproven 2nd year player. Now in his prime with a salary cap jump? We are talking starting salary +$10 easy. And he is probably worth it.

mjt20mik
01-06-2015, 11:49 PM
The move wasn't genius, but it was the right one considering they have close to no players who can run the triangle. The cap space allows Phil to pick players that will strive in the system.

El Topo
01-07-2015, 12:03 AM
Phil Jackson is one of the most intelligent and strong minded guys to ever be a part of professional sports. If anyone can turn NYK into a title winning franchise, it's him. I pretty much see the Knicks being a totally new team next year with Melo staying.

If they could get Gasol + Dragic, or even Monroe + Dragic it would totally transform their squad. I think Monroe has the tools to really flourish in the right system so he might actually be a better fit.

Time will tell, but I think for now Knicks fans have to trust PJ.

Seizabmc
01-07-2015, 12:10 AM
I would love to get

Reggie Jackson
Wes Mathews
Greg Monroe or Marc .

Plus a top 3 pick!!

Maybe not instant contenders,
But we won't be far off.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-07-2015, 12:12 AM
Said it pages back, I guess most NY fans choose to ignore how the cap works.

If the cap is 66 mil, which it is projected to be, after their top 3 pick, and cap holds they will have roughly 26mil to spend on 2 players, this is if they add 4 guys at the min. They'll be at 38 mil after the draft for 6 guys. If you want to add 3 quality players, you have about 26.5 mil to do so. Adding a max guy leaves them with like 7 mil left, and they will not have the MLE either. People always forget cap holds, rookie contracts and think cap space is just endless.

Nikeman
01-07-2015, 12:31 AM
I would love to get

Reggie Jackson
Wes Mathews
Greg Monroe or Marc .

Plus a top 3 pick!!

Maybe not instant contenders,
But we won't be far off.

I could easily see them trading their top 3 pick as well to bring in even more talent, as I said in the OP

Sssmush
01-07-2015, 01:09 AM
Reading reports, the Knicks have up to 30 million in cap space available for 2015.

Players such as Marc Gasol, Kevin Love, Goran Dragic, Rondo, DeAndre Jordan, Greg Monroe, etc etc are all going to be on the market this off-season.

The Knicks have close to max money for two players, however, they are almost guaranteed an amazing (top 3) type pick in this draft. Currently, they are 5-32, the Sixers are 5-28, the Knicks are destined to tank at this point. If they pull what the Cavs did this past off-season by trading their first pick in the draft (Wiggins), they can land another all-star player and create a Big 4 alongside Melo with their 30+ million in cap.

With the East being as weak as it is, the Knicks could be back in the top 3-4 teams within one season if Jackson plays his cards right.

LoL Carmelo maxed out till 2020 or something. And "shutting him down" or whatever they're talking about makes him not all that tradeable.

If Phil has the clout within the organization to dump Carmelo and can get back a 1st round pick then ok, yeah, you can talk to me about a clean slate rebuild. Otherwise Knicks got a loooooooooong way to go just to get back where D'Antoni had them during Linsanity.

Crackadalic
01-07-2015, 01:15 AM
Said it pages back, I guess most NY fans choose to ignore how the cap works.

If the cap is 66 mil, which it is projected to be, after their top 3 pick, and cap holds they will have roughly 26mil to spend on 2 players, this is if they add 4 guys at the min. They'll be at 38 mil after the draft for 6 guys. If you want to add 3 quality players, you have about 26.5 mil to do so. Adding a max guy leaves them with like 7 mil left, and they will not have the MLE either. People always forget cap holds, rookie contracts and think cap space is just endless.

Most of us already know about cap holds etc. If we choose to waive two players team options that saves us another 2 million and if need be trade pablo to shed another 1.5 mil of the books

The purpose of this year is to have our young guys grow into solid role players and go into the summer and get quality starters so we don't have to over spend our bench players because we did the first part

I'm all for the Marc's the LA, etc but getting starters to balance out the roster is more important.

Cracka2HI!
01-07-2015, 02:48 AM
The Knicks will have a tough time even with that cap space. I don't see them getting Gasol and there really isn't a real franchise player otherwise. They probably won't have room for 2 max players either. Maybe a max and a $8-$10 million per player.

sixer04fan
01-07-2015, 02:59 AM
So it's genius when the Knicks tank for a top pick and shed salary for future cap space.

But it's a disgrace to the league when the Sixers do it. Difference being the Knicks also want their best player to shut it down for the year, and the Sixers have a better record than the Knicks.

Got it.

nbafanofall
01-07-2015, 04:02 AM
Hey guys I am new to the forum and unable to post my own threads as a newbie/rook.
I do not mean to hijack this thread by any means. I did however want to point out that this whole trade and to whom benefited the most was discussed in detail in the newest episode of a brand new NBA Podcast I am interning for called - Pooh on Sports NBA Podcast. They drop a new 'cast every friday at 5pm just in time for your commute home.

A little bit about the podcast for those who are interested (I stole this off of their Reddit Page):
Pooh on Sports NBA Podcast is a Podcast hosted by The Rapper Big Pooh formerly of Little Brother. The legendary hip hop group Little Brother consisted of 9th Wonder (the producer of the group who is also known for his work with Jay Z, Destiny's Child, Erykah Badu etc) & Emcees Phonte (also of The Foreign Exchange with producer Nicolay) & Rapper Big Pooh. Little Brother has worked with the likes of Kanye West, Drake, Lil Wayne and many more. 1/3 of the now dismantled group, Rapper Big Pooh, has now along with co-hosts Drew Hepburn & Vince Po started a weekly NBA Podcast. The podcast features the latest in NBA news, trades and rumors. The weekly 'cast also features the hottest tracks currently in independent hip hop. J.E Skeets formerly of the Basketball Jones and currently of NBA TV's The Starters is a supporter of the show and is likely going to appear on a later episode as a guest. As the show progresses the addition of a guest host or interview will be worked into the program. Rumored as guests are many legendary names in Hip Hop such as - Phife Dawg from A Tribe Called Quest, Truck North of The Roots Crew, 9th Wonder, Bun B of UGK, R&B singer Anthony David and many many more and current NBA players - Jabari Parker & John Wall are also rumored to be in the works. The show can be found on all major podcast apps and sites as well as at their soundcloud page - https://soundcloud.com/poohonsports You can also find and follow the show on social media - https://www.facebook.com/poohonsports https://twitter.com/poohonsports
Remember to rate, follow and subscribe. Also remember to tell a friend to tell a friend to tell a friend and help support authentic sports talk & real hip hop.

lamzoka
01-07-2015, 04:16 AM
So it's genius when the Knicks tank for a top pick and shed salary for future cap space.

But it's a disgrace to the league when the Sixers do it. Difference being the Knicks also want their best player to shut it down for the year, and the Sixers have a better record than the Knicks.

Got it.


Bro the sixers been tanking for the past 3 seasons. They tank all season just to draft a player who won't play for them for another year.

FriedTofuz
01-07-2015, 04:27 AM
Bro the sixers been tanking for the past 3 seasons. They tank all season just to draft a player who won't play for them for another year.

they have been tanking the past 1.5 year. They started tanking after trading Jrue holiday back in the '13 draft.. it's been 1.5 years to date.

MTar786
01-07-2015, 04:57 AM
the knicks have to go after marc gasol AND lamarcus aldridge. and if they get lucky and get the first pick in the darft they may actually be immediate title contenders. possibly favorites.

a line up of

calderon
top 3 pick
melo
aldridge
gasol

you guys have no idea how amazing that would be in the triangle

sixer04fan
01-07-2015, 10:14 AM
Bro the sixers been tanking for the past 3 seasons. They tank all season just to draft a player who won't play for them for another year.

3 seasons? Nah. 3 seasons ago we were a game away from the ECF.

And if the Knicks end up with the 3rd pick this year. And Jahlil Okafor is available, but he's injured hypothetically. If I were a Knicks fan, I'd still want them to take him if he was supposed to be the no. 1 pick. It's the same thing with Embiid. I'm thankful we took him over someone like Dante Exum. Embiid is a much higher tiered prospect

2-ONE-5
01-07-2015, 10:19 AM
Bro the sixers been tanking for the past 3 seasons. They tank all season just to draft a player who won't play for them for another year.

holy another clueless NY fan claiming Sixers have tanked for 3 years. its like none of you know how to read i swear.

deaner
01-07-2015, 10:51 AM
Tanking is pathetic.

The last place team's ownership credibility should be reviewed at the end of each season. 29 other teams and the NBA head office should hold a vote to determine if the team in fact tried to undermine the draft lottery process and in doing so disgrace the league and fanbase. Come up with some sanctions to penalize the team if the vote goes against them. Example lose the draft pick. 2 years at the bottom and your franchise is up for vote on if a new owner should be found.

It's just an idea but I'm sure something like that would curve teams away from tanking.

#losesanity

Edit: it's such a shame to have this team represent the NBA in London this month.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-07-2015, 11:06 AM
Most of us already know about cap holds etc. If we choose to waive two players team options that saves us another 2 million and if need be trade pablo to shed another 1.5 mil of the books

The purpose of this year is to have our young guys grow into solid role players and go into the summer and get quality starters so we don't have to over spend our bench players because we did the first part

I'm all for the Marc's the LA, etc but getting starters to balance out the roster is more important.

The figures I used did not include the player options on Acy or Wear. I think NY would be wise to pick up Acy's option for 1.1.

Trading Pablo does free up 1.5 as you say, but (and I'm not speaking directly to you here) people all over this thread think NY will be close to 2 max's they can offer (basically since the OP said it, it must be true right?), when in reality its like 1 max, and 1 player at slightly above MLE money. And that is if the Knicks have like 25% of its roster at minimum level players.

omdigga
01-07-2015, 11:07 AM
cant go through all the pages to see if it was already said but... The Knicks Are Back!!

nycericanguy
01-07-2015, 11:17 AM
The figures I used did not include the player options on Acy or Wear. I think NY would be wise to pick up Acy's option for 1.1.

Trading Pablo does free up 1.5 as you say, but (and I'm not speaking directly to you here) people all over this thread think NY will be close to 2 max's they can offer (basically since the OP said it, it must be true right?), when in reality its like 1 max, and 1 player at slightly above MLE money. And that is if the Knicks have like 25% of its roster at minimum level players.

it depends on what kind of max... Knicks with Melo, JC, Prigs, THJR, Acy, Early, Thannis + 1st rounder (assuming $4-5m for 1st rounder) have about 42m tied up. Leaving almost $25m in cap.

Guys like Jackson, Butler and Monroe have Maxes that start at around 13-15m... so you could conceivably get two younger max guys like that.

Gasol though has a max that starts around $19m... so if they get him then yes its 1 max + MLE.

They do have the $6m TPE and some smaller ones... which means they can add a 7.5m player with no regard to the cap... that could be huge.

teddygreen17
01-07-2015, 11:32 AM
it depends on what kind of max... Knicks with Melo, JC, Prigs, THJR, Acy, Early, Thannis + 1st rounder (assuming $4-5m for 1st rounder) have about 42m tied up. Leaving almost $25m in cap.

Guys like Jackson, Butler and Monroe have Maxes that start at around 13-15m... so you could conceivably get two younger max guys like that.

Gasol though has a max that starts around $19m... so if they get him then yes its 1 max + MLE.

They do have the $6m TPE and some smaller ones... which means they can add a 7.5m player with no regard to the cap... that could be huge.

Jackson could easily be a top 7 PG in this conference and Marc Gasol would be #1 by far. We get both of them, its ON.

mudvayne387
01-07-2015, 11:40 AM
Supposedly teams are already inquiring about Calderon and are willing to give up a 2nd round pick for him. He would be a fine backup on a number on contenders needing backcourt depth. He is shooting 43% from 3pt range and can provide some veteran stability to teams with younger guards especially in the playoffs. If Phil is able to shed Calderon's salary, they will have around 33 million to spend in the offseason. That is enough for 2-3 quality starters. Add in a top 3 draft pick and the Knicks should be back on track.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-07-2015, 11:43 AM
it depends on what kind of max... Knicks with Melo, JC, Prigs, THJR, Acy, Early, Thannis + 1st rounder (assuming $4-5m for 1st rounder) have about 42m tied up. Leaving almost $25m in cap.

Guys like Jackson, Butler and Monroe have Maxes that start at around 13-15m... so you could conceivably get two younger max guys like that.

Gasol though has a max that starts around $19m... so if they get him then yes its 1 max + MLE.

They do have the $6m TPE and some smaller ones... which means they can add a 7.5m player with no regard to the cap... that could be huge.

Yup, I was basing it off Gasol since he seems to be the primary target.

With the TPE, you can only acquire someone using a pick. You can't package the TPE with other players, so to get any real use out of it, it would have to basically be packaged with your 2018 1st round pick I believe since TOR owns the 2016.

nycericanguy
01-07-2015, 12:03 PM
Yup, I was basing it off Gasol since he seems to be the primary target.

With the TPE, you can only acquire someone using a pick. You can't package the TPE with other players, so to get any real use out of it, it would have to basically be packaged with your 2018 1st round pick I believe since TOR owns the 2016.

i'd take Gasol over two younger maxes easily... But I wouldn't be mad at Monroe + Jackson either. they could also do S&T's... the possibilities with $25m cap are endless.

Knicks could just trade a 2nd rounder to use the TPE... they wouldn't have to trade their 2018 1st rounder. you can even protect the pick to make sure you don't ever even give it up. TPE is just about taking back a player another team doesn't want anymore. it's nice to have, there are always teams willing to give up good player because they prefer the cap space.

D-Leethal
01-07-2015, 12:15 PM
Tanking is pathetic.

The last place team's ownership credibility should be reviewed at the end of each season. 29 other teams and the NBA head office should hold a vote to determine if the team in fact tried to undermine the draft lottery process and in doing so disgrace the league and fanbase. Come up with some sanctions to penalize the team if the vote goes against them. Example lose the draft pick. 2 years at the bottom and your franchise is up for vote on if a new owner should be found.

It's just an idea but I'm sure something like that would curve teams away from tanking.

#losesanity

Edit: it's such a shame to have this team represent the NBA in London this month.

Your team was in full blown Tank4Wiggins mode until you caught lightening in a bottle and I bet your posts about tanking were much different then.

Vampirate
01-07-2015, 12:28 PM
Your team was in full blown Tank4Wiggins mode until you caught lightening in a bottle and I bet your posts about tanking were much different then.

It was the right move, the only question is are the Knicks going to use their pick on the draft or use it for a trade.

Crackadalic
01-07-2015, 12:46 PM
It was the right move, the only question is are the Knicks going to use their pick on the draft or use it for a trade.

Depends who's the next james harden a team doesn't want to give max to?

nycericanguy
01-07-2015, 12:50 PM
It was the right move, the only question is are the Knicks going to use their pick on the draft or use it for a trade.

if it ends up being Okafor no way they trade it.

But if it ends up at #3-5 then it's something that might be considered.

D-Leethal
01-07-2015, 12:54 PM
if it ends up being Okafor no way they trade it.

But if it ends up at #3-5 then it's something that might be considered.

Thats basically where I'm at.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-07-2015, 01:00 PM
Sounds like Knicks still interested in Reggie Jackson but don't have the assets to pull it off. Also I read Knicks still shopping Calderon.

Jamiecballer
01-07-2015, 01:08 PM
Your team was in full blown Tank4Wiggins mode until you caught lightening in a bottle and I bet your posts about tanking were much different then.

to his credit i remember that was not the case.

RLundi
01-07-2015, 01:54 PM
Truth: the Knicks are not getting Gasol.

Truth: the Knicks are not getting Aldridge.

Truth: the Knicks may be able to get ONE of Monroe, Butler, or Dragic.

Truth: the Knicks may be able to get ONE of Harris, Reggie Jackson, Leonard, Rondo, Wes Matthews, Millsap, Al Jefferson, Hibbert, Gay

Truth: the Knicks may be able to get ONE of Jeff Green, Deng, Gerald Green, Gerald Henderson, or Lou Williams.

Truth: the Knicks will get a top 4 pick but he will not be an impact player right away. It years for rookies to develop. In fact, he may not even start. So proclaiming anyone a savior this early is completely premature.

All that being said, absolute best case scenario for the Knicks:

C Okafor
PF Jeff Green
SF Melo
SG Matthews
PG Dragic

OR

C Okafor
PF Monroe
SF Melo
SG Gerald Green
PG Reggie Jackson

OR

C Okafor
PF Al Jefferson
SF Melo
SG Butler
PG Lou Williams

The Knicks have several combinations they can play with. Those are solid teams, certainly enough to make the postseason in the listless east. But a championship contender? No. All this talk of the Knicks being contenders overnight is insanely premature. They should focus on making the playoffs and running those triangle sets to perfection before they can even dream of a championship.

mudvayne387
01-07-2015, 02:14 PM
Truth: the Knicks are not getting Gasol.

Truth: the Knicks are not getting Aldridge.

Truth: the Knicks may be able to get ONE of Monroe, Butler, or Dragic.

Truth: the Knicks may be able to get ONE of Harris, Reggie Jackson, Leonard, Rondo, Wes Matthews, Millsap, Al Jefferson, Hibbert, Gay

Truth: the Knicks may be able to get ONE of Jeff Green, Deng, Gerald Green, Gerald Henderson, or Lou Williams.

Truth: the Knicks will get a top 4 pick but he will not be an impact player right away. It years for rookies to develop. In fact, he may not even start. So proclaiming anyone a savior this early is completely premature.

All that being said, absolute best case scenario for the Knicks:

C Okafor
PF Jeff Green
SF Melo
SG Matthews
PG Dragic

OR

C Okafor
PF Monroe
SF Melo
SG Gerald Green
PG Reggie Jackson

OR

C Okafor
PF Al Jefferson
SF Melo
SG Butler
PG Lou Williams

The Knicks have several combinations they can play with. Those are solid teams, certainly enough to make the postseason in the listless east. But a championship contender? No. All this talk of the Knicks being contenders overnight is insanely premature. They should focus on making the playoffs and running those triangle sets to perfection before they can even dream of a championship.

Honestly, I think that is all realistic Knick fans want right now. To have a competitive team that can compete for a top 4 seed in the weak Eastern conference.

xxplayerxx23
01-07-2015, 02:15 PM
Truth: the Knicks are not getting Gasol.

Truth: the Knicks are not getting Aldridge.

Truth: the Knicks may be able to get ONE of Monroe, Butler, or Dragic.

Truth: the Knicks may be able to get ONE of Harris, Reggie Jackson, Leonard, Rondo, Wes Matthews, Millsap, Al Jefferson, Hibbert, Gay

Truth: the Knicks may be able to get ONE of Jeff Green, Deng, Gerald Green, Gerald Henderson, or Lou Williams.

Truth: the Knicks will get a top 4 pick but he will not be an impact player right away. It years for rookies to develop. In fact, he may not even start. So proclaiming anyone a savior this early is completely premature.

All that being said, absolute best case scenario for the Knicks:

C Okafor
PF Jeff Green
SF Melo
SG Matthews
PG Dragic

OR

C Okafor
PF Monroe
SF Melo
SG Gerald Green
PG Reggie Jackson

OR

C Okafor
PF Al Jefferson
SF Melo
SG Butler
PG Lou Williams

The Knicks have several combinations they can play with. Those are solid teams, certainly enough to make the postseason in the listless east. But a championship contender? No. All this talk of the Knicks being contenders overnight is insanely premature. They should focus on making the playoffs and running those triangle sets to perfection before they can even dream of a championship.


Opinion is not truth

JustinTime
01-07-2015, 02:31 PM
Ingenious

Crackadalic
01-07-2015, 02:32 PM
Truth: the Knicks are not getting Gasol.

Truth: the Knicks are not getting Aldridge.

Truth: the Knicks may be able to get ONE of Monroe, Butler, or Dragic.

Truth: the Knicks may be able to get ONE of Harris, Reggie Jackson, Leonard, Rondo, Wes Matthews, Millsap, Al Jefferson, Hibbert, Gay

Truth: the Knicks may be able to get ONE of Jeff Green, Deng, Gerald Green, Gerald Henderson, or Lou Williams.

Truth: the Knicks will get a top 4 pick but he will not be an impact player right away. It years for rookies to develop. In fact, he may not even start. So proclaiming anyone a savior this early is completely premature.

All that being said, absolute best case scenario for the Knicks:

C Okafor
PF Jeff Green
SF Melo
SG Matthews
PG Dragic

OR

C Okafor
PF Monroe
SF Melo
SG Gerald Green
PG Reggie Jackson

OR

C Okafor
PF Al Jefferson
SF Melo
SG Butler
PG Lou Williams

The Knicks have several combinations they can play with. Those are solid teams, certainly enough to make the postseason in the listless east. But a championship contender? No. All this talk of the Knicks being contenders overnight is insanely premature. They should focus on making the playoffs and running those triangle sets to perfection before they can even dream of a championship.

I'm trying to figure out who said we were going to be title contenders over night

2-ONE-5
01-07-2015, 02:34 PM
Gasol, Aldridge, Monroe, Leonard, Butler are all staying put.

D-Leethal
01-07-2015, 02:47 PM
Truth: Stating your opinion and putting Truth in front of it does not make it Truth.

GiantsSwaGG
01-07-2015, 03:02 PM
So the Spurs and Bulls are letting Leonard and Butler walk 2 guys that are not even in their primes yet :laugh:

GiantsSwaGG
01-07-2015, 03:04 PM
I can see a team of

C - Hibbert
PF - Melo
SF - Stanley Johnson
SG - Danny Green
PG - Gragic

That might be more realistic imo

redhorse
01-07-2015, 03:07 PM
Gasol, Aldridge, Monroe, Leonard, Butler are all staying put.

Wel see...y not take a shot...what else can the knicks do right now.... but im def more positive about the direction

Pierzynski4Prez
01-07-2015, 03:17 PM
Butler's not going anywhere I promise you. He'll get max offers which the Bulls will surely match. If they didn't match, half the fan base would hang themselves.

nycericanguy
01-07-2015, 03:24 PM
Butler's not going anywhere I promise you. He'll get max offers which the Bulls will surely match. If they didn't match, half the fan base would hang themselves.

agreed, can't see CHI letting him go. And he's getting a max regardless so there is no way to restructure offers against CHI.

Wonder if CHI would be interested in a THJR for Taj deal this summer though? Would clear almost $7m in cap and take CHI out of the lux tax.

actually re: Butler, another team offering him max actually does CHI a favor.

Other teams max offers can only be 4 years with 4.5 raises. So CHI could match and avoid having to give him 7.5% raise and 5 years.

Chronz
01-07-2015, 03:30 PM
A 1 year rebuild, has that ever happened?

Pierzynski4Prez
01-07-2015, 03:33 PM
agreed, can't see CHI letting him go. And he's getting a max regardless so there is no way to restructure offers against CHI.

Wonder if CHI would be interested in a THJR for Taj deal this summer though? Would clear almost $7m in cap and take CHI out of the lux tax.

actually re: Butler, another team offering him max actually does CHI a favor.

Other teams max offers can only be 4 years with 4.5 raises. So CHI could match and avoid having to give him 7.5% raise and 5 years.

I think Taj is definitely the one to go if luxury tax becomes an issue, which I imagine it will. And Taj for 2/17 isn't a bad deal at all for other teams. Hardaway is interesting because we can put Jimmy at the 3 maybe. But is NY willing to eat into their cap space for Taj? Because you'd need to be under the cap to absorb the difference obviously unless Phil has images of Reinsdorf with hookers or something and can blackmail the Bulls into taking Calderon.

I doubt Bulls will be ready to pencil in McDermott as our starting 3 next year, so a solid wingman would be who we'd target, along with a backup for Noah. Luckily we should have 2 picks (1 around 11-13 and the other around 18-22) to dangle with Taj to get some better value.

Vampirate
01-07-2015, 03:33 PM
A 1 year rebuild, has that ever happened?

Well the Celtics went from a bad team to contenders in 1 off season. But there has to be alot of luck to be put in play.

RLundi
01-07-2015, 03:34 PM
Truth: Stating your opinion and putting Truth in front of it does not make it Truth.


Opinion is not truth

What did I say here that was illogical? What don't you agree with?

deaner
01-07-2015, 03:40 PM
Your team was in full blown Tank4Wiggins mode until you caught lightening in a bottle and I bet your posts about tanking were much different then.

Never. I've alway fought the tank

Crackadalic
01-07-2015, 03:41 PM
What did I say here that was illogical? What don't you agree with?

Your stating an opinion. If you want to say unlikely or not as possible or more realistic then sure

When you stating that its the actual truth with nothing to back it up then we are going to get on your case.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-07-2015, 03:46 PM
Well the Celtics went from a bad team to contenders in 1 off season. But there has to be alot of luck to be put in play.

A lot of luck, and they had the assets to pull off both those trades. I know the #5 pick (Jeff Green) went for Allen, and I think 2 picks + Al Jeff (amongst like 5 other players) for KG.

Knicks have the cap space to sign one, and the pick to try to obtain another, but how many teams out there are willing to give up an "all-star" type player to go into rebuild mode. Brooklyn maybe, but mostly just other bottom feeder teams that don't have much to offer.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-07-2015, 03:49 PM
Never. I've alway fought the tank

Is this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeFzeNAHEhU)you?

Vampirate
01-07-2015, 03:49 PM
Another thing about making an instant contender is your teams decline comes much sooner. Since your team will all be close to 30 years of age, they will be on the decline in 2-4 years depending on the ages.

RLundi
01-07-2015, 03:51 PM
Your stating an opinion. If you want to say unlikely or not as possible or more realistic then sure

When you stating that its the actual truth with nothing to back it up then we are going to get on your case.

Get on my case...?

The Knicks are not getting Gasol and they are not getting Aldridge. End of story. That would be like you saying the Knicks aren't gonna trade Melo, even though technically there's a possibility. Would you say not as possible or unlikely that Melo is traded? No. You'd be firm and adamant in saying the Knicks will not trade Melo. Why is this any different? Because you disagree with me?

They sure as hell aren't getting Butler either. Butler, Gasol and Aldridge aren't leaving their teams, but especially not to go to the worst team in the league, record-wise. Sorry if you disagree but only a Knick fan would because you're hopeful to get one of those players. I understand.

All of my other scenarios are completely plausible, so if you disagree with me, it's on the likelihood that NY will get Gasol or Aldridge. Am I right? Is that what you disagree on?

M.I.A.
01-07-2015, 03:51 PM
Reading reports, the Knicks have up to 30 million in cap space available for 2015.

Players such as Marc Gasol, Kevin Love, Goran Dragic, Rondo, DeAndre Jordan, Greg Monroe, etc etc are all going to be on the market this off-season.

The Knicks have close to max money for two players, however, they are almost guaranteed an amazing (top 3) type pick in this draft. Currently, they are 5-32, the Sixers are 5-28, the Knicks are destined to tank at this point. If they pull what the Cavs did this past off-season by trading their first pick in the draft (Wiggins), they can land another all-star player and create a Big 4 alongside Melo with their 30+ million in cap.

With the East being as weak as it is, the Knicks could be back in the top 3-4 teams within one season if Jackson plays his cards right.

Putting "Knicks" and "Genius" in the same sentence is clearly a misnomer. And the East isn't as weak as you think it is.

Chronz
01-07-2015, 03:57 PM
Well the Celtics went from a bad team to contenders in 1 off season. But there has to be alot of luck to be put in play.

Celtics took years of accumulating assets in order to make those trades. They had legit prospects, not just cap space and picks.

nycericanguy
01-07-2015, 04:03 PM
I think Taj is definitely the one to go if luxury tax becomes an issue, which I imagine it will. And Taj for 2/17 isn't a bad deal at all for other teams. Hardaway is interesting because we can put Jimmy at the 3 maybe. But is NY willing to eat into their cap space for Taj? Because you'd need to be under the cap to absorb the difference obviously unless Phil has images of Reinsdorf with hookers or something and can blackmail the Bulls into taking Calderon.

I doubt Bulls will be ready to pencil in McDermott as our starting 3 next year, so a solid wingman would be who we'd target, along with a backup for Noah. Luckily we should have 2 picks (1 around 11-13 and the other around 18-22) to dangle with Taj to get some better value.

depends who else they sign I imagine. But getting Taj and only adding 6-7m wouldn't be a bad deal.

Obviously they will go for the big fish first, but Taj and maybe a Reggie Jackson or Dragic or Wes matthews, with maybe an Asik at C wouldn't be a bad consolation. especially if they can get Okafor and groom him for the future.

deal makes sense for both teams. CHI is going to need some cheap young players once they give Butler the max, especially with Noah also due for a new deal next year.