PDA

View Full Version : Rookie Love



JEDean89
01-03-2015, 02:48 PM
Well, we're a little over a 1/3rd the way through the season and i've been a little disappointed in this rookie class. Wiggins is improving, but Parker, Embiid, Gordon, McDermott, Randle and Vonleh are all injured, Smart has been injured. Saaric is over sea's, Stauskas, Exum and Paine, Harris, Young are all on too deep of teams at the positions to play much. The injuries suck, but I think with guy's going one and done, and with the amount of talent in the league, we are not gonna be seeing the same production from rooks.

I like Exum, he is gonna be an interesting player for sure, Gordon will fit the Magic's 2 way core very nicely, Wiggins is averaging over 20+ points over his last 5 games, maybe he is breaking out, right now I think the ROY is his to lose. Mirtoic and Nurkic are probably the two most NBA ready guys in terms of Body and skillset other than Jabari. Mirotic is almost 24, so it's understandable that he would be NBA ready but Nurkic just turned 20, and looks really impressive.

Anyway here are my top 10 rooks, i'm weighting guys for injuries otherwise parker would be #1 and Gordon would be #3

Wiggins
Mirotic
Nurkic
Nerlens
Payton (after last night's game)

Show your rookie love, who are you happy with and who aren't you?

2-ONE-5
01-03-2015, 04:50 PM
Noel isnt even the Sixers best rookie so far.

Celticsfan2007
01-03-2015, 04:59 PM
ROY always comes down to opportunities. With that said here's how I see ROY going down...

1. Wiggins (getting huge mpg and playing better)
2. Smart (lots of mpg with Rondo gone and plays NBA caliber defense)
3. Exum (expected to get a huge increase in mpg with Alec Burks out for the season)

Sean Moore
01-03-2015, 05:08 PM
A players rookie campaign can usually not mean much. Just look at Davis. Heck, I remember the hype around Tyreke Evans after his ROY award. Better to judge a player after their third or fourth seasons.

BHF
01-03-2015, 05:11 PM
Jusuf Nurkic over Nikola Mirotic

chi-townlove1
01-03-2015, 05:45 PM
If anyone besides Wiggins is put over Nikola Mirotic then 1) your a Bulls hater or 2) you don't watch enough Bulls basketball, which is understandable.

PurpleLynch
01-03-2015, 06:37 PM
Parker was ballin' in Kidd's system,it's a pity he got injured.
Mirotic is the only one ready for the a role in the NBA(he's also more experienced).
Exum and Smart should grow a lot playing a lot more than before(Rondo's gone and Burks injured).
Wiggins is waking up,with Parker injured he's the number one contender for ROY on paper(even if I prefere a lot Parker)
Noel is also playing better,but he has to get more rebounds to have a real shot to ROY.
Payton has a lot of tools on both ends,if he gets a jumper watch out.
KJ McDaniels is just pure energy and has an awful shot,but I really like him.
Bonus appearance:Tarik Black. I don't know about him. I just hope it will turn right this move for us

IMO

Wiggins
Mirotic
Noel

They are the real contenders this year.

Shammyguy3
01-03-2015, 08:06 PM
Jusuf Nurkic over Nikola Mirotic

Why exactly? http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=nurkiju01&y2=2015&p2=mirotni01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Mirotic has been far more efficient (60.1ts% to 51.0ts%, 120 ORtg to 99 ORtg, 53.9efg% to 46.0efg%, 10.3tov% to 17.1tov%, 0.200 WS/48 to .099 WS/48, 18.1 PER to 16.9 PER).

Mirotic has been a really solid defender and has made everyone on the court better when he's out there offensively as well. The attention he demands on the perimeter leads to a ton of wide open shots for his teammates. Granted, I've only seen Nurkic play twice. But if you're a Nuggets fan I bet you haven't seen much of Mirotic either.

Stats wise, Mirotic trumps him by a mile

InRoseWeTrust
01-03-2015, 09:52 PM
P.S. Miro is also seeing meaningful 4th quarter minutes on a legit team

JEDean89
01-04-2015, 12:50 AM
^^^ miro is 4 years older though and nurkic just more than held is own against gasol, he was blocking him left and right. dude is a better rebounder, the team factor should matter. mirotic is having a better season for now, but his PER is going down after tonight while Nurkic's is going up. They are looking like the two most nba ready. Wiggins is heating up though.

5ass
01-04-2015, 01:40 AM
I really liked nurkic against gasol the other night. His stats aren't very impressive, but nurkic has some nice potential. A lot of potential all stars this draft.

Shammyguy3
01-04-2015, 01:58 AM
^^^ miro is 4 years older though and nurkic just more than held is own against gasol, he was blocking him left and right. dude is a better rebounder, the team factor should matter. mirotic is having a better season for now, but his PER is going down after tonight while Nurkic's is going up. They are looking like the two most nba ready. Wiggins is heating up though.

Rookies are rookies, doesn't matter if Niko's 4 years older when comparing who's been better as of today. That's nothing against Nurkic and his age, it just happens to be that way. And if Nurkic played well tonight, good. But his PER isn't going to go up all that much, and Niko's isn't going to drop all that much either. It's one game compared to 30 other games.

And yes Nurkic is a better rebounder, but Niko's solid in that department as well (15trb%). Niko makes a lot of plays offensively and defensively. He's a poor on rotations and pick & roll defense still, but his overall defense has been much better than anticipated. And his offense is just ridiculously fluid already.

JustinTime
01-04-2015, 02:26 AM
Can't believe I'm saying this but Wiggins the last 6 games is playing better than any rookie injured or healthy. He's scored 20+ pts in 5 of his last 6 and is shooting above 50% in those 6 while playing great d. I didn't think Wiggins had a killer in him but he's proving me wrong, now all he needs is some leadership ability and he may become a very good player.

JustinTime
01-04-2015, 02:30 AM
If anyone besides Wiggins is put over Nikola Mirotic then 1) your a Bulls hater or 2) you don't watch enough Bulls basketball, which is understandable.

How's his D?

jp611
01-04-2015, 02:31 AM
Nurkic over Miro :laugh2:

That was a great laugh for the day.

IgglesFanInCO
01-04-2015, 02:53 AM
Nurkic over Miro :laugh2:

That was a great laugh for the day.

Nurkic is a defensive difference making rim protecting center whose per 36 numbers are ridiculous (among rookies >100 min he is 1st in pts, rebounding, blocks, and 3rd in steals)

while I dont think he currently has the minutes to warrant a ROY case, and certainly wouldnt put him over Miro so far either, to call it laughable is just as ridiculous as you claim that case to be.

6.1/5 vs 8/5.1 isn't that big a difference especially when the former is playing less minutes and is a defensive anchor

Shammyguy3
01-04-2015, 03:00 AM
not sure how good Nurkic's defense is, having only seen 2 games and all, but Nikola Mirotic's offense is elite already. He can get his shot at any spot on the floor, and he can blow past a lot of bigs with his speed and ball-handling. He's also a very good passer, some of the best vision for a big that I've seen simply on drive & kicks.

mRc08
01-04-2015, 03:49 AM
In regards to his defense He's not bad. Not a stopper by any means, but certainly done enough to warrant minutes in thibs system. I would describe him as feisty. Quick hands, lengthy, and pretty good foot speed. If he's guarding a skilled big with deep position in the post he's in trouble, but his defensive playmaking and awareness are really good. His basketball IQ is much higher than that of your typical rookie, which translates into solid defensive play. Kind of a 6-10 hinrich but a little worse lol

Crackadalic
01-04-2015, 09:21 AM
I have a man crush on Payton. He's gonna be a mike conley where nobody is talking about him but will quietly get it done in the playoffs

JEDean89
01-04-2015, 02:05 PM
not sure how good Nurkic's defense is, having only seen 2 games and all, but Nikola Mirotic's offense is elite already. He can get his shot at any spot on the floor, and he can blow past a lot of bigs with his speed and ball-handling. He's also a very good passer, some of the best vision for a big that I've seen simply on drive & kicks.

yo check their PER now, nurkic's is higher, told ya fool

JEDean89
01-04-2015, 02:06 PM
mirotic is good but nurkic is way better, plays a more important position, is a better 2 way player and is 4 years younger.

Kyben36
01-04-2015, 02:33 PM
^^^ miro is 4 years older though and nurkic just more than held is own against gasol, he was blocking him left and right. dude is a better rebounder, the team factor should matter. mirotic is having a better season for now, but his PER is going down after tonight while Nurkic's is going up. They are looking like the two most nba ready. Wiggins is heating up though.

1 game for Nurkic doesnt mean anything, MIro had a game with 6 3s, doesnt make him the best 3pt shooter,

I love Nurkic, but he doesnt have a chance, Nikos team record may be the only team keeping him in it, on a team where he could start, he would do damage though.

Kyben36
01-04-2015, 02:34 PM
mirotic is good but nurkic is way better, plays a more important position, is a better 2 way player and is 4 years younger.

age doesnt matter bro, ROY could be a 30 year old kobe if he never played in the nba.

IgglesFanInCO
01-04-2015, 02:54 PM
age doesnt matter bro, ROY could be a 30 year old kobe if he never played in the nba.

Ya I dont think anyone in here is trying to say Jusuf has a big ROY case or anything (though if they trade Mozgov soon.... maybe small outside shot), just that the "who is a better player" conversation is a very real one, as some people without much exposure to the Bosnian Bear seem to doubt.

mRc08
01-04-2015, 02:58 PM
This debate is tough because rookies are not typically on full display for fans to watch around the league. Unless you have league pass and watch every game you may miss the 15 minutes that mirotic or another player played if they don't show up on the highlights. So for most of us, the eye test is out the window. We know stats alone can be troublesome for a debate, so this rookie conversation is really pretty tough.

JEDean89
01-04-2015, 03:00 PM
Ya I dont think anyone in here is trying to say Jusuf has a big ROY case or anything (though if they trade Mozgov soon.... maybe small outside shot), just that the "who is a better player" conversation is a very real one, as some people without much exposure to the Bosnian Bear seem to doubt.

there ya go, they same people who think age doesn't matter, seem to think team record does matter, when last MCW won on the 7ers and LBJ beat out Melo. this also isn't a one game thing, he just outplayed both gasol bro's in back to back games.

effen5
01-04-2015, 03:49 PM
1 game for Nurkic doesnt mean anything, MIro had a game with 6 3s, doesnt make him the best 3pt shooter,

I love Nurkic, but he doesnt have a chance, Nikos team record may be the only team keeping him in it, on a team where he could start, he would do damage though.

If we're basing it off of one game...niko had his best game against one of the best western conference teams....he lit them up for 27...imo there rreally is no comparison

dodgersuck
01-04-2015, 05:54 PM
Nikola"The Montenegro Monster" Mirotic 4 ROY

Shammyguy3
01-04-2015, 11:04 PM
yo check their PER now, nurkic's is higher, told ya fool

first off, fool? Okay, bud. Secondly, it's a difference of 0.1 = so their PER difference isn't statistically significant.

Mirotic 17.7 PER 119 ORtg 58.9ts% 0.197 WS/48
Nurkic 17.8 PER 99 ORtg 51.0ts% 0.111 WS/48


mirotic is good but nurkic is way better, plays a more important position, is a better 2 way player and is 4 years younger.

look at those efficiency numbers above - Mirotic is far and away a better offensive player and isn't a wreck defensively. You say Nurkic plays a more important position, that's debatable. Age has nothing to do with production today and who is better at this very moment.

Nurkic is not better, let alone way better.

Seriously, the fact that you think you told me something is weird and the fact that you felt like you had to call me a fool when you didn't prove that Nurkic is better is even weirder.

If Mirotic plays well this next game and Nurkic sucks, and Miro's PER is higher again just like every other offensive metric, what will you say then? I'm gonna wager you won't have a relevant response

Raps18-19 Champ
01-04-2015, 11:12 PM
That Wiggins guy is good.

quade36
01-05-2015, 01:34 AM
mirotic is good but nurkic is way better, plays a more important position, is a better 2 way player and is 4 years younger.

well not that it matters, 3.5 years younger.

That being said with Mirotic able to play the 3 (which he did last game and might be for some time) it enables him to be that much more of a versatile player.

They both are good young players. Its silly to say which one will be better. Right now as a Bulls fan regardless of ROY I'm pretty happy they have him.

SilverFalco8
01-05-2015, 02:32 AM
Well, we're a little over a 1/3rd the way through the season and i've been a little disappointed in this rookie class. Wiggins is improving, but Parker, Embiid, Gordon, McDermott, Randle and Vonleh are all injured, Smart has been injured. Saaric is over sea's, Stauskas, Exum and Paine, Harris, Young are all on too deep of teams at the positions to play much. The injuries suck, but I think with guy's going one and done, and with the amount of talent in the league, we are not gonna be seeing the same production from rooks.

I like Exum, he is gonna be an interesting player for sure, Gordon will fit the Magic's 2 way core very nicely, Wiggins is averaging over 20+ points over his last 5 games, maybe he is breaking out, right now I think the ROY is his to lose. Mirtoic and Nurkic are probably the two most NBA ready guys in terms of Body and skillset other than Jabari. Mirotic is almost 24, so it's understandable that he would be NBA ready but Nurkic just turned 20, and looks really impressive.

Anyway here are my top 10 rooks, i'm weighting guys for injuries otherwise parker would be #1 and Gordon would be #3

Wiggins
Mirotic
Nurkic
Nerlens
Payton (after last night's game)

Show your rookie love, who are you happy with and who aren't you?

I'm a Bulls fan, im really impressed with Mirotic and Wiggins.

JEDean89
01-05-2015, 03:34 AM
Rookies are rookies, doesn't matter if Niko's 4 years older when comparing who's been better as of today. That's nothing against Nurkic and his age, it just happens to be that way. And if Nurkic played well tonight, good. But his PER isn't going to go up all that much, and Niko's isn't going to drop all that much either. It's one game compared to 30 other games.

And yes Nurkic is a better rebounder, but Niko's solid in that department as well (15trb%). Niko makes a lot of plays offensively and defensively. He's a poor on rotations and pick & roll defense still, but his overall defense has been much better than anticipated. And his offense is just ridiculously fluid already.

this is the quote i was referring to.

JEDean89
01-05-2015, 09:40 PM
this is why i'm cheesing hard over nurkic, his PER will be up over 20 soon.

BHF
01-05-2015, 10:10 PM
Nurkic over Miro :laugh2:

That was a great laugh for the day.

LOL you think Nikola Mirotic is better than Nurkic :laugh: there is not one gm in the league that would take Mirotic over Nurkic including your own gm at this time.

JEDean89
01-05-2015, 10:37 PM
^^^ who ironically traded him and garry harris for mcdermott...

Stunner
01-05-2015, 11:57 PM
Mirotic Eastern Conference Rookie of the month and just had a big game tonight vs Hou

Stunner
01-05-2015, 11:57 PM
LOL you think Nikola Mirotic is better than Nurkic :laugh: there is not one gm in the league that would take Mirotic over Nurkic including your own gm at this time.

............

Shammyguy3
01-06-2015, 12:21 AM
LOL you think Nikola Mirotic is better than Nurkic :laugh: there is not one gm in the league that would take Mirotic over Nurkic including your own gm at this time.

the fact that some posters think this is laughable, is laughable

BHF
01-06-2015, 12:37 AM
the fact that some posters think this is laughable, is laughable

I have seen both players play more than you have so yeah its laughable :)

BHF
01-06-2015, 12:38 AM
^^^ who ironically traded him and garry harris for mcdermott...

To be fair no one expected Nurkic to be as good as he is right away.

Shammyguy3
01-06-2015, 12:41 AM
I have seen both players play more than you have so yeah its laughable :)

First off, how do you know that to be the case. Secondly, if true how do you know that you actually have a good gauge of which player is better. Thirdly, can you backup your claims with any proof. Lastly, yes it's incredibly laughable.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-06-2015, 12:41 AM
Wiggins still so good.

2-ONE-5
01-06-2015, 11:46 AM
If Covington keeps this play up he is going to be in the running.

Stunner
01-06-2015, 02:22 PM
If Covington keeps this play up he is going to be in the running.

He's not a rookie

jakub
01-06-2015, 02:38 PM
Wiggins already won, move along.

2-ONE-5
01-06-2015, 05:02 PM
He's not a rookie

he appeard in 7 games last year. i dont know how it works in the nba but i know mlb allows a rookie to play x amt of games in previous years to still be in the running.

Hawkeye15
01-06-2015, 05:05 PM
he appeard in 7 games last year. i dont know how it works in the nba but i know mlb allows a rookie to play x amt of games in previous years to still be in the running.

he is not a rookie by NBA standards. You can't play a minute in any season prior.

stormec
01-11-2015, 12:39 PM
I'm expecting Jusuf Nurkic to be in the top 5 rookies this season. Here is something interesting from his official fan base:

"We at Official Jusuf Nurkic’s Fan Base and all who love Jusuf are very satisfied with his latest performances, but what exactly does the world know about Jusuf Nurkic? Not much, I can assure you all. That is why we decided to exclusively give you a little-known story about Jusuf Nurkic. Actually, it is more about his father and how did Jusuf Nurkic start to train basketball at the first place.

Jusuf Nurkic’s dad is a policeman in Tuzla, Bosnia and Herzegovina. One day a Bosnian sports agent Enes Trnovcevic was reading a newspaper where he read: “Bosnian policeman, Hariz Nurkic has beaten 14 people in a fight.” He knew what to do instantly! Next day he went to Tuzla and met with Nurkic’s father. The only thing he asked him was: “Do you have a son?” Jusuf Nurkic was at that time a 14 years old boy and never trained basketball. Enes Trnovcevic took him to Slovenia and gave him an opportunity he accepted and used."

nurkic.com

BHF
01-11-2015, 05:24 PM
First off, how do you know that to be the case. Secondly, if true how do you know that you actually have a good gauge of which player is better. Thirdly, can you backup your claims with any proof. Lastly, yes it's incredibly laughable.

Since i am European and from the Balkans id say i know a little more about players from back home than you do, there is no point discussing this with you any further because its pretty obvious who is a better player, like you said incredibly laughable.

JEDean89
01-11-2015, 06:16 PM
omg that nurkic story is the best thing ever

BHF
01-11-2015, 07:15 PM
omg that nurkic story is the best thing ever

LOL i knew that about him from a long time ago, you guys got yourself a steal in the draft that's for sure. I am a Raps fan and i would trade JVal in a heartbeat for him. Nurkic does everything better than Val and he just turned 20 years old.

Hawkeye15
01-11-2015, 08:05 PM
Parker going down sucks. I thought he may have seen a Wiggins-like increase in level of play as the year went on, to make it a nice contest. But Wiggins is literally running away with it at this point, and with his role the way it is, his ppg (which is like the only thing that wins you ROY) will continue to rise, and rise, as well as his efficiency. I figure he ends up around 16-17 ppg, on a TS% of 52. Bright future.

This class will be good, just might be a couple years with some big injuries

JEDean89
01-11-2015, 08:12 PM
^^^ while i agree that he is the favorite, if either Mirotic or Nurkic can increase their production (nurkic is now a starter, mirotic is an established role player), with how much more efficient they've been, they have a chance too. Wiggins is balling for sure, but scoring 20 in 40 minutes alone should not garner a ROY award when there are other guys who are not able to get the minutes, but are doing more with theirs. I think that Wiggins is the right media choice. He is obviously gonna be a very good player and the NBA will want to capitalize on a Canadian superstar who can become the next LBJ. It will be an interesting 2nd half to the season.

Hawkeye15
01-11-2015, 08:19 PM
^^^ while i agree that he is the favorite, if either Mirotic or Nurkic can increase their production (nurkic is now a starter, mirotic is an established role player), with how much more efficient they've been, they have a chance too. Wiggins is balling for sure, but scoring 20 in 40 minutes alone should not garner a ROY award when there are other guys who are not able to get the minutes, but are doing more with theirs. I think that Wiggins is the right media choice. He is obviously gonna be a very good player and the NBA will want to capitalize on a Canadian superstar who can become the next LBJ. It will be an interesting 2nd half to the season.

PPG is literally all that matters for ROY.

Wiggins is already killing everyone, and his per game average rises by the game. Unless he gets hurt, the award chase is over dude. That is just how it works.

JEDean89
01-11-2015, 09:19 PM
we will see, the season isn't even half way over though. It's Wiggins to lose no doubt, but for the sake of fun it is worth noting that he is not necessarily having the best rookie season.