PDA

View Full Version : Should the Cavs have kept Andrew Wiggins?



rocketfuel
01-02-2015, 01:50 AM
Now that you've seen him play? Should the Cavs have just stuck with what they have or do you think the trade was worth it?

Tony_Starks
01-02-2015, 01:54 AM
They should've kept him but they felt Kevin Love put them in win now mode. BIG mistake! Had they not goofed up they would've been set for the next 5-10 years.

goingfor28
01-02-2015, 01:55 AM
Yes

Ezio
01-02-2015, 02:02 AM
I just hope they don't get another #1 pick for the next 5-10 years.

jaydubb
01-02-2015, 02:04 AM
I thought the Cavs gave too much at the time of the trade.. I was impressed with minnesota on that one..

If lebron leaves then love will also leave and CLEVELAND will get set back for YEARS because of this trade..

JEDean89
01-02-2015, 02:17 AM
they were way too quick to get rid of him. once he weighs 20 lbs more he will be a force in this league. cavs could have had him and monroe for the cost of love, i think that would have been a better fit.

jerellh528
01-02-2015, 02:19 AM
Minny's future looks bright for sure

BKLYNpigeon
01-02-2015, 02:35 AM
too early to tell.

mngopher35
01-02-2015, 02:43 AM
No, I think Wiggins looks better in a Twolves jersey...

Honestly though it will probably depend on if they can get a rim protector and keep Love this offseason. As the poster above said, it is still to early to know for sure.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-02-2015, 02:48 AM
Nope.

Wiggins doesn't fit what the Cavs are trying to achieve. Wiggins might not even be as good as Love anyway.

koreancabbage
01-02-2015, 02:56 AM
IMO, yes they should have. and Bennett too.

I think Wiggins could fit and become that wing defensive stopper alongside Lebron - upgrade over Waiters thats for sure.

Trade Waiters for someone else, i.e. a big.

After watching a bit of Wiggins this season, he's most likely an impact player for the Cavs (seeing what he's doing in Minny nowadays)

RaiderLakerz1
01-02-2015, 02:59 AM
they regret it especially not known if love is gonna come back... they might have traded Wiggins for nothing... We'll see...

Iron24th
01-02-2015, 03:12 AM
I thought the cavs would regret this trade in 2 or 3 years, finally they might regret it this year already.

abe_froman
01-02-2015, 03:14 AM
yes

i get what they were thinking with trading for love,to get a "big 3" together to win now...it just was right idea,wrong execution.love wasnt a big who played defense and be effective taking a back seat on offense.

added to that is that wiggins could do one thing right away,defend! it wouldnt have fixed all their defensive issues,but would have helped....and with wiggins potential,he will likely make it look very lopsided in terms of talent/impact

LA_Raiders
01-02-2015, 03:18 AM
Yes, love looks lost out there. He will be gone next year.

jakedajewler
01-02-2015, 03:42 AM
Yes been saying it was a stupid trade since it was rumored

Goose17
01-02-2015, 03:47 AM
Am I the only person that thinks Wiggins looks distinctly average? Even for a rookie. He's very "meh".

So no. I don't think it was the wrong decision to trade him I just think they should have went after someone other than Love.

KingstonHawke
01-02-2015, 06:35 AM
They were so scared the Wolves would trade Love to the Warriors they overpaid. Me, I'd of NEVER included Wiggins in that deal. If Love went off the table I'd of targeted Aldridge or Jefferson (both in the same situation). I like Love, but he's not as good as he's made out to be.

The Cavs have always been one of the worse managed teams though. I hate almost every move they make. The only ones they get right are the no-brainers like Lebron and Kyrie. I don't know if I hated them drafting Bennett or Waiters more. Bennett I just hated (hate all tweeners), while Waiters had soooo many potential allstars behind him. Barnes and Drummond I was both crazy about.

PurpleLynch
01-02-2015, 07:16 AM
It's still too early. I want to see Wiggins and his stats at the end of the season. It seems like he's waking up lately.
Honestly,before the season,I thought it was a good move trading Wiggins,because Love was one of the missing pieces to build a championship team and I thought that he would play great bball with a good passer like Lebron, a good coach as Blatt and a good center like Varejao. Unfortunately,right now,I'm wrong.

PhillyFaninLA
01-02-2015, 08:43 AM
No Love may have meant no Lebron

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-02-2015, 09:26 AM
I thought the Cavs gave too much at the time of the trade.. I was impressed with minnesota on that one..

If lebron leaves then love will also leave and CLEVELAND will get set back for YEARS because of this trade..

Most likely win #1 pick back to back years.

nycericanguy
01-02-2015, 10:48 AM
Probably, but Love was the advanced stats PSD God... and Lebron isn't happy unless he has a bunch of superstars around him....

Hawkeye15
01-02-2015, 10:51 AM
Am I the only person that thinks Wiggins looks distinctly average? Even for a rookie. He's very "meh".

So no. I don't think it was the wrong decision to trade him I just think they should have went after someone other than Love.

Wiggins is gaining steam however, and don't neglect the fact that he looks like a future fixture on the all defensive team. If he can improve his handles, sky is the limit, because right now, he can't score from the perimeter unless it's a jumper, so Flip has simply been posting him up to get him closer to the rim.

He should be a very good 2-way player averaging 20-22 a night on above average efficiency, and pushing for all defensive honors by year 3. At least that is my guess..

ghettosean
01-02-2015, 11:08 AM
From the letter Lebron wrote before the trade happened to get Love we all know that he was responsible for this trade. He really screwed up there future in Cleveland and it might just be me but I think they would have been a better team pre-trade vs post trade.

ghettosean
01-02-2015, 11:10 AM
Anyone see "Confusious" around he's mysteriously disappeared from this forum lately.

SlimKid
01-02-2015, 11:11 AM
Being a T-Wolves homer, I'm happy with the way the trade went down. With that said, it's WAY too early to make any hindsight judgments.

Hawkeye15
01-02-2015, 11:24 AM
From the letter Lebron wrote before the trade happened to get Love we all know that he was responsible for this trade. He really screwed up there future in Cleveland and it might just be me but I think they would have been a better team pre-trade vs post trade.

MAYBE, and I mean maybe, in 3 years. But not this year, nor next. Wiggins is a ways from contributing to the winning column. Bennett sucks.

rocketfuel
01-02-2015, 11:44 AM
The wing defense with Wiggins/Lebron would have been tremendous.

beasted86
01-02-2015, 12:05 PM
The Cavs got what they wanted which was a sure thing, and another "name" to help attract veteran free agents. The Cavs aren't a free agent destination typically even with LeBron previously, but this past summer with those 3 marquee names they picked up some solid vets they may not have. So in that regard, the trade was a success.

Secondary, based on 30 games in, Wiggins is not living up to his hype. There are more than enough statistical breakdowns on why. Here's just one in case somebody needs it: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/assessing-andrew-wiggins-30-games-in/

And Bennett isn't looking so good either. So from a point of talent right now they would be weaker also.

So far it's looking like the answer would be no, they made the right trade. But things could change.

ghettosean
01-02-2015, 12:06 PM
MAYBE, and I mean maybe, in 3 years. But not this year, nor next. Wiggins is a ways from contributing to the winning column. Bennett sucks.

With Verjeao out Bennett could have slid into that spot to help with the front court and Lebron having issues with is knees could have passed the torch to Wiggins and taught him everything he knows to speed up his development but defense is what they are lacking right now and Wiggins would be more help in that department than Love. I agree it's pretty debatable though but when looking at the team now in hindsight it's just what I believe.

Was never really down with the Trading 2 of there 4 #1 picks for Love who might bolt in a year. Just a bad situation for the Cavs but I believe it was the only way Lebron would have rejoined the Cavaliers since I believe he was calling the shots on this move.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-02-2015, 12:32 PM
If Love was what he was his whole career it would be a very good trade. But he's not, so it isn't. But he can turn it around.

I wonder how Omeka Okafor looks right now. They need a defensive center next to love.

Miltstar
01-02-2015, 12:35 PM
They shoulda told Lebron they didn't want him back and built around what they had. It's like going back to an abusive ex and thinking somehow it's gonna work out!

Chronz
01-02-2015, 12:42 PM
Have you not seen how badly those prospects are playing right now?

ManningToTyree
01-02-2015, 12:44 PM
Will this core with the Cavs stick around and win? If the answer is no then it was a huge mistake.

Chronz
01-02-2015, 12:54 PM
Will this core with the Cavs stick around and win? If the answer is no then it was a huge mistake.

If the answer was yes on both or 1/2.....

True Rocket
01-02-2015, 12:57 PM
Big mistake. They probably could have gotten Love with Waiters, Thompson, Bennet and a first rounder. Wiggins will be a two way star for 10+ years.

jerellh528
01-02-2015, 12:58 PM
Big mistake. They probably could have gotten Love with Waiters, Thompson, Bennet and a first rounder. Wiggins will be a two way star for 10+ years.

I don't thnink so, iirc minny insisted on wiggins as the core of that trade return

Hawkeye15
01-02-2015, 01:13 PM
With Verjeao out Bennett could have slid into that spot to help with the front court and Lebron having issues with is knees could have passed the torch to Wiggins and taught him everything he knows to speed up his development but defense is what they are lacking right now and Wiggins would be more help in that department than Love. I agree it's pretty debatable though but when looking at the team now in hindsight it's just what I believe.

Was never really down with the Trading 2 of there 4 #1 picks for Love who might bolt in a year. Just a bad situation for the Cavs but I believe it was the only way Lebron would have rejoined the Cavaliers since I believe he was calling the shots on this move.

have you watched Bennett play?

Hawkeye15
01-02-2015, 01:14 PM
Have you not seen how badly those prospects are playing right now?

to be fair, Wiggins is picking up some steam, and looks like a future defensive team fixture at least. He just needs to work on his ridiculously bad handles, my god. Flip is now just posting him up so he doesn't have to catch the ball in a position to create off the dribble.

Hawkeye15
01-02-2015, 01:15 PM
Big mistake. They probably could have gotten Love with Waiters, Thompson, Bennet and a first rounder. Wiggins will be a two way star for 10+ years.

no, they couldn't have.

Goose17
01-02-2015, 01:15 PM
I'm glad they did make that trade. Warriors would have made a huge mistake.

mjt20mik
01-02-2015, 01:16 PM
At the time no. Now yes, just because there is uncertainty revolving around whether or not LBJ and Klove will resign.

nycericanguy
01-02-2015, 01:25 PM
always thought Love was very overrated. he's an all star player, but PSD was crowning him a top 5 player despite the fact that his teams had some ridiculous win % of like 29% in 5 years. Just because his advanced stats were great...lol.

He's david lee with a 3pt shot that got to chuck as much as he wanted with no regard to the outcome of games... guys can put up numbers when the games don't matter.

Now we see him on a good team he's putting up 16 & 10 on 42%... is this the guy that PSD said was the top PF in the game, a top 5 player and so much better than melo?

Melo would be putting 25ppg on 50% right now if he got to play with LBJ and Irving.

ghettosean
01-02-2015, 01:27 PM
have you watched Bennett play?

I know but he was playing amazing in the start of the season... Either way bad or not they need more size in there front court right now he would have fit the need.

Chronz
01-02-2015, 01:32 PM
to be fair, Wiggins is picking up some steam, and looks like a future defensive team fixture at least. He just needs to work on his ridiculously bad handles, my god. Flip is now just posting him up so he doesn't have to catch the ball in a position to create off the dribble.
That's still not a good rookie showing. He doesn't look to be a fixture in anything until it produces results. Potential means squat if its this middling

sp6r=underrated
01-02-2015, 01:33 PM
No. Cleveland has disappointed this year primarily due to defense and Lebron dropping off a step. He is still playing at a high level but he doesn't look to be quite the same player. Love bears no responsibility for the later but he is proving to be a problem on offense. Nonetheless Wiggins isn't showing much in Minnesota. Almost no one would have posed this question if he hadn't had so much hype entering college.

Chronz
01-02-2015, 01:34 PM
I know but he was playing amazing in the start of the season... Either way bad or not they need more size in there front court right now he would have fit the need.

He would have been last on their depth chart and wouldn't have filled anything. Only thing you accomplished is making the team worse

Hawkeye15
01-02-2015, 02:43 PM
That's still not a good rookie showing. He doesn't look to be a fixture in anything until it produces results. Potential means squat if its this middling

oh I agree, and the sample size is way too small for me, but all I am saying is, he is showing more and more finally. I didn't buy into his all world potential after watching how passive he was in college, and how bad his handles were. I just am becoming more of a believer game by game that he will indeed be a very good two way player. Superstar? Meh, not sure on that....

Hawkeye15
01-02-2015, 02:44 PM
I know but he was playing amazing in the start of the season... Either way bad or not they need more size in there front court right now he would have fit the need.

he wasn't playing amazing at all. He is clueless offensively and defensively, floats around the perimeter looking for 20 foot jumpers, and is routinely beat by his man with or without the ball. We signed a dude off the street to take his minutes...

Stunner
01-02-2015, 02:52 PM
RT @AcrossTheCourt_: Andrew Wiggins last 5 games: 21.4 PPG, 50.6% FG%, 42.9% 3PT%. It's starting to click for him

Hawkeye15
01-02-2015, 02:58 PM
RT @AcrossTheCourt_: Andrew Wiggins last 5 games: 21.4 PPG, 50.6% FG%, 42.9% 3PT%. It's starting to click for him

that is what I am referring to. He was showing glimpses here and there, but is starting to show a little consistency. Flip is now posting him deeper to limit his need to dribble, and he has guarded the other teams best wing player every game. I am more optimistic about him right now than I was last year, or even a month ago.

He also didn't sit out when he was wrecked with the flu for 4 games, in which he did not play well obviously. Chronz, you saw one of those against your Clips. He almost threw up on Wes Matthews the night prior.

JustinTime
01-02-2015, 03:44 PM
At the beginning of the season I'd have said no because Wiggins looked awful and struggled to shoot 40% from the field in most games but now that's all changed.

His last 5 games
VS SAC 27pts 4STL, 2ASTS 9RB on 11/22 shooting
VS Utah 21pts 1STL, 1BLK, 5RB on 10/19 shooting
VS GS 10pts 1STL, 1 AST, 1 RB on 3-6 shooting - he didn't get his usual time in this game
VS Denver 22 pts 2BLK,3AST, 5RB on 8-18 shooting
VS CLE 27 pts 1STL, 1BLK, 2AST, 2RBs on 9-16 shooting - he legitimately played better than Lebron\

He's shooting .506% in his last 5 and he has no one on his team outside of him capable of drawing any defensive awareness from the opposition. If he keeps shooting above 50% he's going to be great, just imagine what he'll be like with 4 or 5 years of development and some real teammates.

JustinTime
01-02-2015, 03:49 PM
have you watched Bennett play?

Such a hater, Bennett will be fine once he gets a chance which will be when you get a new coach. He was great for you guys early on did you forget that, he started to go downhill when Rubio went down. Talent doesn't just disappear but confidence can when you have a selfish team and a sh*tty coach. He probably hates being in Minnesota too.

Hawkeye15
01-02-2015, 03:53 PM
Such a hater, Bennett will be fine once he gets a chance which will be when you get a new coach. He was great for you guys early on did you forget that, he started to go downhill when Rubio went down. Talent doesn't just disappear but confidence can when you have a selfish team and a sh*tty coach. He probably hates being in Minnesota too.

a hater?

Bennett is not a good basketball player, he has no basketball IQ. I have watched basketball for 30 years now. I understand the numbers. He simply looks lost. Do you know how scaled down the playbook is right now with no PG healthy? We run like 5 sets, and have maybe 4 set plays. He still wanders around like a lost puppy. And he has no defensive awareness.

I know you have a giant mancrush on Bennett, for some reason. But the dude can't play man.

Could he improve when his floor general is back, on the offensive side? Sure. He is still a total liability on defense, and just floats around the perimeter on offense. Not a fan of his game at all.

LOOTERX9
01-02-2015, 03:59 PM
Wiggins can't shoot. Would have been benched cause lbj needs shooters around him.wiggins can play more in minny. But if lbj leaves clev. Then yes the trade is bad but I'll blame lebron and not Cleveland for that

JustinTime
01-02-2015, 04:18 PM
a hater?

Bennett is not a good basketball player, he has no basketball IQ. I have watched basketball for 30 years now. I understand the numbers. He simply looks lost. Do you know how scaled down the playbook is right now with no PG healthy? We run like 5 sets, and have maybe 4 set plays. He still wanders around like a lost puppy. And he has no defensive awareness.

I know you have a giant mancrush on Bennett, for some reason. But the dude can't play man.

Could he improve when his floor general is back, on the offensive side? Sure. He is still a total liability on defense, and just floats around the perimeter on offense. Not a fan of his game at all.

There's not a single player on your team that plays good defense asides from Wiggins. Notice how the Wolves are still awful on D when Bennett's on the bench, blame Flip he's f*cking terrible just like everything about Minnesota's franchise. I mean seriously who plays Sweet Caroline with under a minute left in a close game? Yea that's going to really energize your team haha. Everything about that Franchise is so embarrassingly dated it's no wonder you guys are never successful. Owner, coach, Commentators, GM, music control, are all ****ed. That franchise is run like some league below d-league I can completely see why the fans don't show up.

Hawkeye15
01-02-2015, 04:24 PM
There's not a single player on your team that plays good defense asides from Wiggins. Notice how the Wolves are still awful on D when Bennett's on the bench, blame Flip he's f*cking terrible just like everything about Minnesota's franchise. I mean seriously who plays Sweet Caroline with under a minute left in a close game? Yea that's going to really energize your team haha. Everything about that Franchise is so embarrassingly dated it's no wonder you guys are never successful. Owner, coach, Commentators, GM, music control, are all ****ed. That franchise is run like some league below d-league I can completely see why the fans don't show up.

10/4

Tony_Starks
01-02-2015, 04:38 PM
Better for Wiggins in the long run. At least he has a chance to fully develop his game without it being hindered.....

Goose17
01-02-2015, 04:48 PM
Bennett has shown very little promise.

He's the new Olowokandi.

ghettosean
01-02-2015, 05:03 PM
Better for Wiggins in the long run. At least he has a chance to fully develop his game without it being hindered.....

It could have gone either way to be honest.... If Lebron took him under his wing and brought him and showed him how to grow as a player and shared some of the mistakes he made and brought him along it's hard to say what would be better for his development. To be fair at the same time Lebron could have been cold and said don't get in my way on the court and that could have totally hindered Wiggins development also.

Tony_Starks
01-02-2015, 05:11 PM
Better for Wiggins in the long run. At least he has a chance to fully develop his game without it being hindered.....

It could have gone either way to be honest.... If Lebron took him under his wing and brought him and showed him how to grow as a player and shared some of the mistakes he made and brought him along it's hard to say what would be better for his development. To be fair at the same time Lebron could have been cold and said don't get in my way on the court and that could have totally hindered Wiggins development also.

Well I was talking more so offensively. Lebron needs specific kinds of players around him to be effective, namely floor spacers for his drive and kick game. Wiggins talent would've been wasted out there on the perimeter.

Hawkeye15
01-02-2015, 05:19 PM
Well I was talking more so offensively. Lebron needs specific kinds of players around him to be effective, namely floor spacers for his drive and kick game. Wiggins talent would've been wasted out there on the perimeter.

to add to that, Wiggins already struggles with being assertive. Playing with a ball dominant player like LeBron would have stunted the **** out of his growth, he would happily have taken a backseat to LeBron and Irving.

jerellh528
01-02-2015, 05:28 PM
to add to that, Wiggins already struggles with being assertive. Playing with a ball dominant player like LeBron would have stunted the **** out of his growth, he would happily have taken a backseat to LeBron and Irving.

He's canadian. I can just picture a "my bad guys" after every missed shot or "I apologize, team" after turnovers haha

Vee-Rex
01-02-2015, 06:01 PM
Cavs fans were ridiculed thread after thread for wanting to keep Wiggins. Now people are like... yup, should've kept him!

Lol Psd

Tony_Starks
01-02-2015, 07:01 PM
Cavs fans were ridiculed thread after thread for wanting to keep Wiggins. Now people are like... yup, should've kept him!

Lol Psd

Anybody that wasn't drinking the Kevin Love koolaid knew it was a bad deal. I said the Cavs would be a second round exit when that happened and people were telling me I was crazy and how they would win 60-65 wins and go to the finals....

Rain City
01-02-2015, 07:04 PM
its too early to tell but IMO it looks like a much greater risk and will be interesting to follow.

At the time i thought it was an absolute no brainer for the cavs.

i didn't think Cavs were going to come out of the gates and run away with the east but i certainly thought they would be better than this.

i wasn't ultra high on wiggins, but i must say he is showing he is an impact player now and a star in this league soon.

i like the point that if AW and lebron were playing together we would be seeing a less impactful and slower developing immergence of wiggins but i really think in time, w/ good coaching they would thrive and probably complement each other wonderfully. ideally an offense with lots of ball movement to get defenses sliding as both of these guys can slash and finish/get to the line. and its not like Love is transitioning smoothly.

i will say if they didn't make this trade & AW was in CLE my prediction he'd be averaging around 9 pts on meh efficiency w/ CLE being about the same and Love would probably be doing 23/12 for BOS or someone and everyone would be going crazy for NOT doing the trade. EVERYTHING in CLE is heavily scrutinized.

gotta wait and see, but if Love bolts for sure this trade will be monumentally bad.

about the only thing i question about AW is if he can have the tenacity needed to be a #1 scoring option for a team that can win playoff series. I think if he was with lebron could show him the way while taking the pressure off lebron on the defensive end and having a guy to pass the torch in 2-4 years and have CLE set up for being a contender for a decade straight.

rocketfuel
01-03-2015, 01:54 AM
The whole point of the trade was win now, but if the Cavs do not win big in the next two years than giving away such huge assets would be overpaying. I don't even think they needed to give away so much....if they had been patient and waited for a favorable trade to come along, they might not even have to give up so much. It's not a knock on Love who I think is a terrific player, but when the rumors started, I couldn't believe they were going to give away their number 1 pick plus the previous year's number 1 pick and an additional 1st rounder---ouch. I don't think Lebron would have stunted Wiggins growth. Wiggins probably would have been the Pippen to his Jordan. Wiggins could take defensive pressure off Lebron and the Cavs seem to need more defensive players. They have guys that can score and shoot... what they need is a shotblocker and extra defensive players. And new players can make an immediate impact. Look at how Kawhi has revitalized the Spurs. And who's to say Wiggins is better off in Minny....sure he gets more of the ball, but he might pick up bad habits that are hard to unlearn.

DemarDerozan
01-03-2015, 02:48 AM
Cleveland should have kept Luol Deng and traded Kyrie for a defensive Center. They could have picked up or traded for a number of mid-level PGs.

A starting lineup of:

Vet PG (Collison, Nelson, Calderon)
Waiters
Wiggins
Thompson
Defensive Center (Sanders, Hibbert, Asik)

May not win a championship. But would be a really good young core to build on.
If you look at most of the successful teams this year you have: Atlanta, GSW, Toronto and Memphis. All teams that built a young core and added a couple pieces later.

Cleveland is destined to fail... again.

DemarDerozan
01-03-2015, 02:53 AM
Cavs fans were ridiculed thread after thread for wanting to keep Wiggins. Now people are like... yup, should've kept him!

Lol Psd

Again. If they kept Wiggins after the Lebron trade it would have been a disaster.

Lebron isn't like MJ. He is not looking to take on a protege. He is all about Lebron.
As can be witnessed by his excessive need to speak of himself in the third person.

Anyone who speaks of themselves in the third person is a complete douche and sacrifices all of their good qualities. Lebron will never surpass the top 15 range just ahead of Moses Malone.

DemarDerozan
01-03-2015, 03:39 AM
Actually... I take that back.

Moses Malone won three MVPs and one championship in a much more competetive time... a time without nine figure endoresments influencing the league.

He's ahead of LeBron.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-03-2015, 09:48 AM
Cavs should of never traded for Love. He never proved anything other then pad his stats on a losing team. Once Love goes cold from 3 point land then he's a boring player and a sieve on defense. Lakers should step back a minute and think gee do we really want to throw big money at Love when Cavs are losing in the weak east? Doubt Kobe,Love,Randle wins much in the tough west. Unless they win the lottery and draft Towns. But still doubt they scratch for eighth seed.

CKinKC
01-03-2015, 11:12 AM
If Kevin Love doesnt resign then its a ridiculously bad move!!! What are the odds he does sign?? My guess 50% at best at this time

SlimKid
01-03-2015, 01:22 PM
It's crazy what modern day NBA fans expect from rookies. I guess the once in a lifetime freak of nature that was Lebron as a rookie skewed everyones expectations.

SlimKid
01-03-2015, 01:23 PM
There's not a single player on your team that plays good defense asides from Wiggins. Notice how the Wolves are still awful on D when Bennett's on the bench, blame Flip he's f*cking terrible just like everything about Minnesota's franchise. I mean seriously who plays Sweet Caroline with under a minute left in a close game? Yea that's going to really energize your team haha. Everything about that Franchise is so embarrassingly dated it's no wonder you guys are never successful. Owner, coach, Commentators, GM, music control, are all ****ed. That franchise is run like some league below d-league I can completely see why the fans don't show up.


If you hate the franchise so much, why waste your time commenting on absolutely every topic related to them?

Kaner
01-03-2015, 02:09 PM
Maybe. I was split before and am still not sure it's obvious one way or the other, Wiggins would never develop into a star beside Lebron so he was probably always going to be a trade piece. What they definitely should have done was get Dieng back in the trade like I said before it happened. They had to know they were bidding against themselves at that point. Nobody was offering a prospect like wiggins. Anybody outside of Lebron and Maybe Irving that gets Minnesota to include him the Cavs should have done.

Corey
01-03-2015, 03:47 PM
Cleveland should have kept Luol Deng and traded Kyrie for a defensive Center. They could have picked up or traded for a number of mid-level PGs.

A starting lineup of:

Vet PG (Collison, Nelson, Calderon)
Waiters
Wiggins
Thompson
Defensive Center (Sanders, Hibbert, Asik)

May not win a championship. But would be a really good young core to build on.
If you look at most of the successful teams this year you have: Atlanta, GSW, Toronto and Memphis. All teams that built a young core and added a couple pieces later.

Cleveland is destined to fail... again.

Okay, come on. Wiggins is bright (im a KU fan) but that team that you put together is **** compared to what they have on the court right now. Yeah, they're struggling, but it's also January. All they have to do is make the playoffs in the terrible East. They'll be there and they have time to click.

Sadds The Gr8
01-03-2015, 05:15 PM
No because Wiggins hasn't shown to be that good either this year....

Sean Moore
01-03-2015, 05:24 PM
Way too early to tell. Besides, Lebron wanted Love and likely would not have come back home to Cleveland if he did not have the guarantee that the Cavs would use Wiggins to acquire Love. The city's financial status is very heavily reliant on Lebron being in a Cavs jersey so based on that logic I would have to say that it's still best the Cavs gave him up if it keeps Lebron in a Cavs jersey. Then again, it's still too early to tell. Lets see what this off season brings.

76erEaglePhils
01-05-2015, 05:11 PM
The Kevin Love situation kind of reminds me of the situation with the Lakers and, Howard I see him leaving Cleveland after this season.

rocketfuel
04-16-2015, 12:50 AM
Well, now that you've had a full season to watch Wiggins, what do you think of the trade now?

mngopher35
04-16-2015, 12:54 AM
Well, now that you've had a full season to watch Wiggins, what do you think of the trade now?

I really like it... For the wolves. I still think we need to see how Cleveland (and Klove) plays in the post season though. They are built to contend these next few years so if they can win and Klove is a big part of that it would be more of a win-win situation.

numba1CHANGsta
04-16-2015, 01:17 AM
Love is gone 100% sure of it, I even think if Bosh had been a FA after the 2010-2011 season he would have left MIA. Bosh had to tough it up cuz he was signed for 4 years so he was screwed. 100% certain he wouldn't have re-signed with MIA if LeBron did. Cavs screwed up their future a bit but knowing how the NBA likes to nut ride LeBron wherever he goes he will have more than enough players on his team

FlashBolt
04-16-2015, 01:38 AM
Love is gone 100% sure of it, I even think if Bosh had been a FA after the 2010-2011 season he would have left MIA. Bosh had to tough it up cuz he was signed for 4 years so he was screwed. 100% certain he wouldn't have re-signed with MIA if LeBron did. Cavs screwed up their future a bit but knowing how the NBA likes to nut ride LeBron wherever he goes he will have more than enough players on his team

Ohhhh stfu. LeBron didn't have a team for seven seasons... so enough with that garbage assumption that the NBA helps LeBron.

I still think it was the right decision. Wiggins would not have high of a stock if he stayed in Cleveland. He'd be Shumpert.

curtcocaine
04-16-2015, 01:43 AM
Love is gone 100% sure of it, I even think if Bosh had been a FA after the 2010-2011 season he would have left MIA. Bosh had to tough it up cuz he was signed for 4 years so he was screwed. 100% certain he wouldn't have re-signed with MIA if LeBron did. Cavs screwed up their future a bit but knowing how the NBA likes to nut ride LeBron wherever he goes he will have more than enough players on his team
How can you say 100% sig bet?

Tony_Starks
04-16-2015, 01:49 AM
Well, now that you've had a full season to watch Wiggins, what do you think of the trade now?

I really like it... For the wolves. I still think we need to see how Cleveland (and Klove) plays in the post season though. They are built to contend these next few years so if they can win and Klove is a big part of that it would be more of a win-win situation.

You guys made a steal in retrospect seeing as Love was gone anyway. With Wiggins I think you will eventually get a better all-star minus the diva tendencies. With him and Lavine, that's a good start.

For Cleveland I understand wanting to throw another superteam together but once they get bounced in the playoffs Love is on the first thing smoking. ( not to Lakers hopefully!)

Jeffy25
04-16-2015, 01:55 AM
I don't know that the Cavs even necessarily need Love to win in the East and the Finals.

And Wiggins and LeBron wasn't going to work together any way.

A better fit, long term for Cleveland, would have been:

Irving
Smith
LeBron
Parker
Mozgov

with the same bench


That would have been a better fit for the next several years. Parker would be a great fit in this lineup.

Wiggins is going to be a good scorer, and Love is an offensive only player. Wiggins with LeBron and Irving just isn't that great of a fit, and Love with them isn't really any better. But Parker is probably going to be a pretty good two way player who can handle the 3 or 4 (whichever LeBron isn't playing) along with LeBron and doesn't have to score to be successful.

TDE
04-16-2015, 02:23 AM
Ohhhh stfu. LeBron didn't have a team for seven seasons... so enough with that garbage assumption that the NBA helps LeBron.

I still think it was the right decision. Wiggins would not have high of a stock if he stayed in Cleveland. He'd be Shumpert.

He had a team, it was favorite to win for three years before MiAmi

rocketfuel
04-16-2015, 02:25 AM
Love's a great player, but when the trade was rumored I just thought that Wiggins was too big of a piece to give up....I thought he might be a future star for a decade and the perimeter d would be terrific.... with a Wiggins/Lebron thing. Lebron could co-exist with Wade and Jordan with Pippen so not sure why that wouldn't have fit.

BornReady
04-16-2015, 02:25 AM
I don't know that the Cavs even necessarily need Love to win in the East and the Finals.

And Wiggins and LeBron wasn't going to work together any way.

A better fit, long term for Cleveland, would have been:

Irving
Smith
LeBron
Parker
Mozgov

with the same bench


That would have been a better fit for the next several years. Parker would be a great fit in this lineup.

Wiggins is going to be a good scorer, and Love is an offensive only player. Wiggins with LeBron and Irving just isn't that great of a fit, and Love with them isn't really any better. But Parker is probably going to be a pretty good two way player who can handle the 3 or 4 (whichever LeBron isn't playing) along with LeBron and doesn't have to score to be successful.

Chill

FlashBolt
04-16-2015, 02:53 AM
He had a team, it was favorite to win for three years before MiAmi

They were favorites because of LeBron if anything. That team was not worth mentioning and you and I both know it. The most notable player (Mo Williams) has been on five different teams the past 4 years. Everyone else were just so bad that they are out of the league/retired because of age. Yeah...

mngopher35
04-16-2015, 03:26 AM
You guys made a steal in retrospect seeing as Love was gone anyway. With Wiggins I think you will eventually get a better all-star minus the diva tendencies. With him and Lavine, that's a good start.

For Cleveland I understand wanting to throw another superteam together but once they get bounced in the playoffs Love is on the first thing smoking. ( not to Lakers hopefully!)

Everything worked out great for us, wiggins was a way better return than expected. Lavine shabazz dieng and a top 4 pick (hopefully okafor or towns) as well gives us a lot of young talent to look forward to.

I'm not sure what happens with love but if he does bolt that definitely ruins the value of this trade for cle. If they go on a deep run and make/win the finals I'm not so sure Klove leaves though. Take the last year on his option and become a fa when the new salary cap is in place.

FlashBolt
04-16-2015, 04:05 AM
Cleveland isn't a big market (certainly no Miami), but LeBron can get guys to come with him. I would not be surprised at all if they can grab a big name. Griffin pulled an impossible one with Mosgov/J.R./Shump. Even if Love leaves (which I doubt -- major red flag on his commitment, first Minnesota, then Cleveland), so be it. Varejao+Mosgov+Thompson is decent enough to contend. That money will be spent elsewhere with the approval of James (who will run the show).

IKnowHoops
04-16-2015, 04:26 AM
Am I the only person that thinks Wiggins looks distinctly average? Even for a rookie. He's very "meh".

So no. I don't think it was the wrong decision to trade him I just think they should have went after someone other than Love.

Jury is still out for me, but I think its 50/50. But whatever is making you think that Wiggins is distinctly average...I think I am seeing the same thing.

Mave1002
04-16-2015, 04:52 AM
Well know after the post-season. I can see Love leaving if the Cavs dont reach the finals.

KnicksorBust
04-16-2015, 11:02 AM
No. They have a much better chance to win a chip with KLove.

vgfdcf
04-16-2015, 12:32 PM
Now that you've seen him play? Should the Cavs have just stuck with what they have or do you think the trade was worth it?

Vee-Rex
04-16-2015, 01:42 PM
Anyone saying we don't need Love to win a ship needs to stop drinking the media koolaid.

Everyone thinks Love is having such a terrible season. He's having a decent year as a third option. Do we wish he could be better/find a better role on the offense? Sure! Can he get better? Sure! That doesn't mean he isn't needed and if you believe that then you are absolutely ignorant.

I've watched all our games and his presence is crucial. I don't care if one game he gets 25 points and 11 boards or another he gets 12 points and 8 boards, his ability extends outside points and rebounds and it shows.

Kind of annoying to see so much ignorance and hate on here but I'm pretty much used to it now.

Also, Love has no reason to leave at the end of the year. He'll opt-in, continue his championship pursuit, and then be a free agent for the 2016 tv contract year. There's absolutely no way he'll opt-out and sign long-term and miss out on the bigger pay, or opt-out, sign a one-year deal with another team, then be a free agent in 2016.

It makes absolutely no sense at all and it's unfortunate people don't have the capacity to see it that way.

ISIAH_THOMAS
04-16-2015, 01:48 PM
IF they win a championship I don't think they will care

If they lose and Love bounces then its awful

KnicksorBust
04-16-2015, 02:44 PM
Anyone saying we don't need Love to win a ship needs to stop drinking the media koolaid.

Everyone thinks Love is having such a terrible season. He's having a decent year as a third option. Do we wish he could be better/find a better role on the offense? Sure! Can he get better? Sure! That doesn't mean he isn't needed and if you believe that then you are absolutely ignorant.

I've watched all our games and his presence is crucial. I don't care if one game he gets 25 points and 11 boards or another he gets 12 points and 8 boards, his ability extends outside points and rebounds and it shows.

Kind of annoying to see so much ignorance and hate on here but I'm pretty much used to it now.

Also, Love has no reason to leave at the end of the year. He'll opt-in, continue his championship pursuit, and then be a free agent for the 2016 tv contract year. There's absolutely no way he'll opt-out and sign long-term and miss out on the bigger pay, or opt-out, sign a one-year deal with another team, then be a free agent in 2016.

It makes absolutely no sense at all and it's unfortunate people don't have the capacity to see it that way.

It's funny because so many people have attacked your Cavs, Kyrie, Love, even debated if LeBron was past his prime over the course of this season but then you go to the new thread about "finalists" and they all come running back to "Cavs/Spurs" or "Cavs/Warriors." :laugh:

BornReady
04-16-2015, 03:10 PM
Anyone saying we don't need Love to win a ship needs to stop drinking the media koolaid.

Everyone thinks Love is having such a terrible season. He's having a decent year as a third option. Do we wish he could be better/find a better role on the offense? Sure! Can he get better? Sure! That doesn't mean he isn't needed and if you believe that then you are absolutely ignorant.

I've watched all our games and his presence is crucial. I don't care if one game he gets 25 points and 11 boards or another he gets 12 points and 8 boards, his ability extends outside points and rebounds and it shows.

Kind of annoying to see so much ignorance and hate on here but I'm pretty much used to it now.

Also, Love has no reason to leave at the end of the year. He'll opt-in, continue his championship pursuit, and then be a free agent for the 2016 tv contract year. There's absolutely no way he'll opt-out and sign long-term and miss out on the bigger pay, or opt-out, sign a one-year deal with another team, then be a free agent in 2016.

It makes absolutely no sense at all and it's unfortunate people don't have the capacity to see it that way.

in the fourth quarters too?

Vee-Rex
04-16-2015, 03:25 PM
in the fourth quarters too?

Definitely. Blatt has rested him in 4th quarters because of nagging injuries and the media has blown it out of proportion, declaring dysfunction as the reason.

WITZ
04-16-2015, 03:29 PM
The funny thing about this is if Love was still in Minny putting up 26-12 & Wiggins was on the cavs putting up 12 points people would be crying about how dumb they were for passing on the trade dammed if you do, Dammed if you don't situation.

Vee-Rex
04-16-2015, 03:41 PM
The funny thing about this is if Love was still in Minny putting up 26-12 & Wiggins was on the cavs putting up 12 points people would be crying about how dumb they were for passing on the trade dammed if you do, Dammed if you don't situation.

Haha, +1

MILLERHIGHLIFE
04-16-2015, 03:52 PM
Cavs should of kept Wiggins. Rookie on cheap contract. Cavs could of used capspace down the road to add more talent. Now even if they can keep Love and LeBron there probably capped out since Irving is on a max as well. Also like I said on that other thread of Love. He was nothing more then a stat padder on a horribly managed Wolves team. Also AV injured every season on a new bad contract. That was a joke of a signing.

Vee-Rex
04-16-2015, 03:59 PM
Cavs should of kept Wiggins. Rookie on cheap contract. Cavs could of used capspace down the road to add more talent. Now even if they can keep Love and LeBron there probably capped out since Irving is on a max as well. Also like I said on that other thread of Love. He was nothing more then a stat padder on a horribly managed Wolves team. Also AV injured every season on a new bad contract. That was a joke of a signing.

I wanted to keep Wiggins pre-trade but oh well.

I agree on that Varejao signing. Man that was terrible. He's a terrific rotational player to have but wayyy too injury prone for that kind of money. I think we were too focused on trying to lure LBJ back to Cleveland since he get along so well with Andy and we gave him too much money.

Tony_Starks
04-16-2015, 03:59 PM
Cleveland isn't a big market (certainly no Miami), but LeBron can get guys to come with him. I would not be surprised at all if they can grab a big name. Griffin pulled an impossible one with Mosgov/J.R./Shump. Even if Love leaves (which I doubt -- major red flag on his commitment, first Minnesota, then Cleveland), so be it. Varejao+Mosgov+Thompson is decent enough to contend. That money will be spent elsewhere with the approval of James (who will run the show).


Kevin Love is all about Kevin Love man. Clashed with coach Rhambis because he made him earn his playing time. Publicly threw Rubio under the bus and called out Management when Rubio got paid. Threw his Wolves teammates under the bus. Even had the nerve to try to call out coach K for not giving him enough minutes on team USA.

Nothing in his track record shows that he would stick around and be the odd man out in hopes one day Kyrie can get him a ring. He's going to go to a big market somewhere where he can get paid and be the man, even if its a losing team.

imagesrdecievin
04-18-2015, 03:53 PM
It seems like Wiggins would have been a perfect complement to Kyrie long after LeBron bolts.

I think the Cavs made a mistake.

da ThRONe
04-18-2015, 04:12 PM
I don't think people realize just how difficult it is to put together a title contending team.

I think Kevin Love is one of the most overrated players in the league and I think Wiggins will be McGrady-ish in his prime. With that said I still think the Cavs did the right thing regardless of how this playoffs and off season goes. Love right now is in a much better position to help them win now. If you can get into position to win titles now that is worth mortgaging the future for in my book.

Vee-Rex
04-18-2015, 04:16 PM
I don't think people realize just how difficult it is to put together a title contending team.

I think Kevin Love is one of the most overrated players in the league and I think Wiggins will be McGrady-ish in his prime. With that said I still think the Cavs did the right thing regardless of how this playoffs and off season goes. Love right now is in a much better position to help them win now. If you can get into position to win titles now that is worth mortgaging the future for in my book.

+1

Logic is lost on the masses.

But Kevin Love isn't doing as bad as everyone is implying.

cab6131
04-19-2015, 03:59 PM
Hindsight. You gotta go for the title now while the East is weak and LeBron has a few really great years left.