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FriedTofuz
12-31-2014, 08:18 AM
Basically, a thread to start off with either a pretender and contender and why you've categorized them in that way.

Contender: Chicago-A healthy drose and a revamped jimmy butler is saying a lot about the bulls chances this year.

Pretender- Imma go with the clippers. They dont seem like theyve taken a step forward compared to the rest of the west contenders

Longhornfan1234
12-31-2014, 09:49 AM
Pretenders:

Spurs - injuries, age, fatigue, and regression.

Houston - Manufactured perimeter superstar. Game will be ineffective when calls stop. Howard doesn't have go to offensive moves in the post to offset Harden's inefficiencies. Below average coach.

Clippers - Overrated coach/Gm. No SF. No one to guard opposing team's best perimeter player.

Cavaliers: bad coach/schemes/rotations. Need a big man who can defend.


Contenders:

Bulls, Memphis, and OKC are only "real" contenders.

Vampirate
12-31-2014, 10:17 AM
Pretenders:

Spurs - injuries, age, fatigue, and regression.

Houston - Manufactured perimeter superstar. Game will be ineffective when calls stop. Howard doesn't have go to offensive moves in the post to offset Harden's inefficiencies. Below average coach.

Clippers - Overrated coach/Gm. No SF. No one to guard opposing team's best perimeter player.

Cavaliers: bad coach/schemes/rotations. Need a big man who can defend.


Contenders:

Bulls, Memphis, and OKC are only "real" contenders.

Do you realize how many times during these years people have said 'the Spurs are done'

KnicksorBust
12-31-2014, 11:08 AM
Pretenders:

Spurs - injuries, age, fatigue, and regression.

Houston - Manufactured perimeter superstar. Game will be ineffective when calls stop. Howard doesn't have go to offensive moves in the post to offset Harden's inefficiencies. Below average coach.

Clippers - Overrated coach/Gm. No SF. No one to guard opposing team's best perimeter player.

Cavaliers: bad coach/schemes/rotations. Need a big man who can defend.


Contenders:

Bulls, Memphis, and OKC are only "real" contenders.

Your pretenders are significantly more likely to win the title than your contenders.

Mr. Baller
12-31-2014, 11:09 AM
Contenders: The west & the bulls

Pretenders: The east

Longhornfan1234
12-31-2014, 11:26 AM
Your pretenders are significantly more likely to win the title than your contenders.
Prove it. Make an argument and present some evidence to back up your claim... or gtfo.

Longhornfan1234
12-31-2014, 11:28 AM
Do you realize how many times during these years people have said 'the Spurs are done'

Last year's Spurs team are not this year's team. Age, injuries, regression, and fatigue are killing this team.

Miltstar
12-31-2014, 11:33 AM
Contenders: The west & the bulls

Pretenders: The east

You heard it here first guys, LA Lakers NBA Champs!!

Tony_Starks
12-31-2014, 12:31 PM
Contenders: The west & the bulls

Pretenders: The east

This

KnicksorBust
12-31-2014, 12:55 PM
Your pretenders are significantly more likely to win the title than your contenders.
Prove it. Make an argument and present some evidence to back up your claim... or gtfo.

Lol. You got it buddy. Check back later.

Miltstar
12-31-2014, 01:12 PM
Prove it. Make an argument and present some evidence to back up your claim... or gtfo.

That's the thing, no one aside from the players on the court can prove anything and they can't even do that until the time is right... People can claim what they want on the forums but from my experiences I find that more often than not, they are wrong!

pebloemer
12-31-2014, 01:21 PM
It's still a bit early.

I'm concerned about Bogut's health.
I'm concerned about San Antonio's age.
I'm concerned about Dallas's front court depth.
I will probably never be comfortable banking Josh Smith or Dwight Howard.
I'm concerned about Rose's health
I'm concerned about LAC start (and their defense on the wing)
I'm concerned Cleveland may not figure out how to defend well this year.
I'm concerned about he lack of deep playoff experience of the young emerging Eastern teams (Was, Tor, Atl)

I really like Portland, Chicago, Memphis, OKC and GS right now though.

But many of these teams are contenders. There might be more parity at the top than we've seen in a while (although the West has long had a great deal of excellent teams).

Sanjay
12-31-2014, 06:24 PM
Contender - Thunder
If Durant and Westbrook can stay healthy and get Oklahoma City into the playoffs then they have a real chance. I think the Western Conference champion will come from the Spurs, Thunder and Warriors.

Pretender - Rockets
If they aren't making their 3's, they're in trouble. Also, they're a horrible free-throw shooting team.

labor2millions7
12-31-2014, 07:30 PM
Pretenders...cavaliers

Contenders...mavs

Blitzbolt
12-31-2014, 07:45 PM
Pretenders --1.Warriors they are SOFT from top to bottom one of the less phycical teams in the NBA.
2.Rockets
3.mavs
-
Contenders--OKC no need explain they have 2 top ten players.
2.Spurs
3.wiz

kdspurman
12-31-2014, 09:19 PM
Last year's Spurs team are not this year's team. Age, injuries, regression, and fatigue are killing this team.

it's the same exact team. plus anderson lol... they played 18 games in December with 7 back to backs against quality opponents with a handful of injuries. don't know where u think age is an issue, but then again, it's always an "issue"

as much as you want them to be done, this year isn't the year. schedule will lighten up and guys will be back soon. it'll even out.

Thumper 88
01-01-2015, 01:29 AM
Spurs are not done lol

I think the final 4 from the west will be

Golden State warriors
Dallas Mavericks
San Antonio Spurs
Memphis Grizzlies

The East

Chicago Bulls
Toronto Raptors
Atlanta Hawks
Washington Wizards

sens#11fan
01-01-2015, 02:19 AM
Contenders(No particular order):
1. OKC
2. Bulls
3. Spurs (can never count them out)
4. MEM
5. Dallas

Pretenders(No particular order)
1. Golden State, there fun to watch but I don't know if they're ready yet. They don't have that much experience getting to the second round and beyond.
2. Portland, there bench isn't very deep.
3. Houston, harden won't get the same silly calls he does in the playoffs. Also, i just don't trust harden and howard to lead this team deep, especially after hearing about their chemistry issues within the team.
4. LAC, imo this is probably one of the deepest teams in the league, but for some reason they can't click or they are too inconsistent. They are loaded with stars and good pieces, but thats why you play the game.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-01-2015, 02:27 AM
That's the thing, no one aside from the players on the court can prove anything and they can't even do that until the time is right... People can claim what they want on the forums but from my experiences I find that more often than not, they are wrong!

Like that time you called Lowry a True franchise player. Snap.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-01-2015, 02:45 AM
The Raptors and Wizards just scream early playoff exit to me more than anyone else.

curtcocaine
01-01-2015, 03:13 AM
Contenders: everbody but the 6ers and pistons

Miltstar
01-01-2015, 12:39 PM
Like that time you called Lowry a True franchise player. Snap.

Haha I also called Carmello Anthony a D-League player, I think those polls are dumb so I just troll vote

JustinTime
01-01-2015, 02:11 PM
Pretenders :
Raps - Like ATL will fall apart in 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs
ATL
Cleveland - Team run by an overrated loser who usually puts himself in positions which make him look better than he is but ****ed up this time

Contender
CHI - if healthy
Spurs
Memphis

Raps18-19 Champ
01-01-2015, 02:34 PM
Forgot to add ATL as being a pretender.

LanceUpperCut
01-01-2015, 03:06 PM
The Raptors and Wizards just scream early playoff exit to me more than anyone else.

Really you think the bottom teams in the East are going to take them out.

ChI_ShIzzLe
01-01-2015, 03:19 PM
Pretenders:
Raptors, Wizards, Hawks, Warriors - I just don't think they're ready yet.

Rockets, Cavs - Same reasons as mentioned.

Grizzlies - Not sold on them. Don't think they have enough perimeter offense to win in the playoffs.

Contenders:
Spurs - They've been there they've done that. Nuff said. Until Pops dies and Duncan, Parker and Manu can't walk anymore you can't count this team out. However they have never won back to back titles.

Thunder - Again, they've been there and a healthy Durant & Westbrook are the closest thing to a present Jordan & Pippen since Lebron & Wade are no longer together.

Blazers - I really like this team. They've been together and Lillard has taken a huge step this season towards stardom. I think they along with the Spurs, Thunder and Mavs will be one of the teams to win the West.

Bulls - Not a homer pick because they are legitimately the only team in the East without really any weaknesses. This is year 4 of the Thibs era and this is the best team he's had with the addition of Gasol, the emergence of Jimmy Butler and instant offense and defense off the bench with Gibson, Brooks and Mirotic. The only major weakness is health and obviously I'm referring to D-Rose. If he doesn't have any further setbacks, there's no reason for the Bulls to not win the East.

ManningToTyree
01-01-2015, 03:49 PM
Contenders:
Spurs
Mavs
Bulls
Memphis
Portland

Pretenders:
Toronto
Clippers
Cavs
Houston

Raps18-19 Champ
01-01-2015, 03:52 PM
Really you think the bottom teams in the East are going to take them out.

I think Raptors will be 3rd or 4th seed at the end of the year. And I wouldn't really hold it against a team like the Nets or Heat when healthy to take them out. Even then, I'd lean towards the Wizards, Cavs and Bulls over Raptors in the 2nd round (who they'll probably go up against).

likemystylez
01-01-2015, 05:56 PM
The Raptors and Wizards just scream early playoff exit to me more than anyone else.

LOL well they'll be int he playoffs in the east and likely will both have home court advantage against an easy opponent- LOL in the east you dont have to be that great to get to the second round (esp considering half the east teams dont belong in the playoffs)

Sly Guy
01-01-2015, 05:57 PM
Basically, a thread to start off with either a pretender and contender and why you've categorized them in that way.

Contender: Chicago-A healthy drose and a revamped jimmy butler is saying a lot about the bulls chances this year.

Pretender- Imma go with the clippers. They dont seem like theyve taken a step forward compared to the rest of the west contenders

I agree with everything here. The Bulls are scary with a full roster. And they have the killer mentality to match

archdevil84
01-01-2015, 08:03 PM
contenders: wizards, grizzlies, spurs, warriors maybe OKC
pretenders: bulls, raptors, hawks, cavaliers, rockets, blazers, mavericks, clippers
Final NBA champ: miami heat ofcourse

tredigs
01-01-2015, 09:03 PM
I could actually see every team in the West winning the title outside of the Clips. I don't think their D is there. I think Chi comes out of the East, but I'm happy to see there is actually a handful of very strong teams shaping up there as well. Atlanta's D is unconventional but surprisingly effective, so they're feeling real too.

Tony_Starks
01-01-2015, 09:20 PM
I could actually see every team in the West winning the title outside of the Clips. I don't think their D is there. I think Chi comes out of the East, but I'm happy to see there is actually a handful of very strong teams shaping up there as well. Atlanta's D is unconventional but surprisingly effective, so they're feeling real too.

The Clipps have Doc Rivers though. He can outcoach any coach in any series...

Raps18-19 Champ
01-01-2015, 10:12 PM
LOL well they'll be int he playoffs in the east and likely will both have home court advantage against an easy opponent- LOL in the east you dont have to be that great to get to the second round (esp considering half the east teams dont belong in the playoffs)

Losing in the 2nd round is still considered an early exit.

Thumper 88
01-01-2015, 10:16 PM
The Clipps have Doc Rivers though. He can outcoach any coach in any series...

RC and Pop are better

tredigs
01-01-2015, 10:17 PM
The Clipps have Doc Rivers though. He can outcoach any coach in any series...

Joking I hope...

Vampirate
01-02-2015, 11:58 AM
contenders: wizards, grizzlies, spurs, warriors maybe OKC
pretenders: bulls, raptors, hawks, cavaliers, rockets, blazers, mavericks, clippers
Final NBA champ: miami heat ofcourse

What makes the Wizards better than the Bulls, Raptors, Hawks and if they figure it out Cavs?

Chronz
01-02-2015, 12:57 PM
Joking I hope...
I look at the coaching staf , individually Doc is the greatest coaching asset. It's why we bested you guys last year. This year we hired each others assistants, only you guys got the better end of the discussion. Doc is still an asset as a coach, an asset that's undermined by him being our gm

tredigs
01-02-2015, 05:27 PM
I look at the coaching staf , individually Doc is the greatest coaching asset. It's why we bested you guys last year. This year we hired each others assistants, only you guys got the better end of the discussion. Doc is still an asset as a coach, an asset that's undermined by him being our gm

You think? MJax was unsurprisingly outcoached, but HCA and actually having starting bigs likely played the bigger role there.

The idea that he can outcoach everyone in the NBA came off as a joke to me...

Tony_Starks
01-02-2015, 05:44 PM
I look at the coaching staf , individually Doc is the greatest coaching asset. It's why we bested you guys last year. This year we hired each others assistants, only you guys got the better end of the discussion. Doc is still an asset as a coach, an asset that's undermined by him being our gm

You think? MJax was unsurprisingly outcoached, but HCA and actually having starting bigs likely played the bigger role there.

The idea that he can outcoach everyone in the NBA came off as a joke to me...

Why would it be a joke? Second to Pop he's easily the best coach in the game both player development wise and X and O wise.

tredigs
01-02-2015, 05:47 PM
Why would it be a joke? Second to Pop he's easily the best coach in the game both player development wise and X and O wise.

Well, Pop's the obvious answer as to why it wouldn't be true, but I put Carlisle in his group as well. Then we're in another tier and discussing guys like Doc imo.

Thumper 88
01-02-2015, 05:57 PM
Why would it be a joke? Second to Pop he's easily the best coach in the game both player development wise and X and O wise.

Rick Carlisle has something to say about that.

Thumper 88
01-02-2015, 05:57 PM
Well, Pop's the obvious answer as to why it wouldn't be true, but I put Carlisle in his group as well. Then we're in another tier and discussing guys like Doc imo.

Agree

dalton749
01-02-2015, 06:18 PM
doc is overrated imo
he trying to make the clippers play a brand of basketball they aren't suited for and dont really have an identiy anymore because of it

he couldnt get tmac out of the first round, including being up 3-1 against detroit
and took an nba record most playoff games to win in boston despite having one of the best teams ever
anybody could have coached that team

he won a coach of the year because he led a team to 41-41 and didnt make the playoffs, lol
jeff hornacek was the goat coach last year based on that

Tony_Starks
01-02-2015, 07:09 PM
Why would it be a joke? Second to Pop he's easily the best coach in the game both player development wise and X and O wise.

Well, Pop's the obvious answer as to why it wouldn't be true, but I put Carlisle in his group as well. Then we're in another tier and discussing guys like Doc imo.

Look at Blake's game now. Went from a highlight reel to one of the most well rounded bigs. Look at DJ, from a dunk machine to leading rebounder and in the conversation for dpoy. Those things didn't happen by osmosis.

Doc is definitely first tier of coaches, had CP3 not choked last year they would've been in the WCF for the first time ever....

archdevil84
01-02-2015, 08:23 PM
What makes the Wizards better than the Bulls, Raptors, Hawks and if they figure it out Cavs?

i just think the wizards have a better complete overal team with a good veteran bench then all the teams you mentioned. solid veteran in PP and a great leader in john wall and a solid upcoming player in bradley beal. Good defense and good offense. they also seem to me like the most stable east team. also the only team which hasnt realy had all those ups and downs with injuries (like bulls without rose in the lineup, raptors without derozan, cavs without irving etc.) maybe they are stil coming but to me the wizards just seem like the only team in the east that realy knows who they are, what theyre capable of and what their goal is and that makes them the best team in the east for me and maybe title contenders. stil not better then most west teams though

Chronz
01-03-2015, 12:27 AM
You think? MJax was unsurprisingly outcoached, but HCA and actually having starting bigs likely played the bigger role there.

The idea that he can outcoach everyone in the NBA came off as a joke to me...
I disagree, look at how well the team has done without Bogut this year. The talent base was similar overall but to your other point, hca was another determining factor, big reason our respective clubs have gone in the opposing direction.

Outside of 2 or 3, i can't think of anyone Id want in the a west.

Chronz
01-03-2015, 12:30 AM
Look at Blake's game now. Went from a highlight reel to one of the most well rounded bigs. Look at DJ, from a dunk machine to leading rebounder and in the conversation for dpoy. Those things didn't happen by osmosis.

Doc is definitely first tier of coaches, had CP3 not choked last year they would've been in the WCF for the first time ever....
That's like saying, had CP3 not caught fire, Clips lose in 5. That's a shoddy argument to defend a coach.

FriedTofuz
01-03-2015, 02:50 AM
Say what you want about the wizards, I think if they face Toronto in any round it's 5-6 games to win the series for Toronto. Just look at the results from every game the past 3 years and you'll see what we're talking about.
I know on paper the wizards look more complete, but they're not better than Toronto.

Iron24th
01-03-2015, 04:36 AM
pretenders: rockets, warriors, blazers, mavs, wizards, cavs

contenders: spurs, grizzlies, bulls, thunder

*Silver&Black*
01-03-2015, 04:37 AM
Hawks just became #1 in the East standings. Coach Bud for CotY!

tredigs
01-03-2015, 02:41 PM
I disagree, look at how well the team has done without Bogut this year. The talent base was similar overall but to your other point, hca was another determining factor, big reason our respective clubs have gone in the opposing direction.

Outside of 2 or 3, i can't think of anyone Id want in the a west.

They're decidedly worse without Bogut, especially against teams with multiple bigs that crash the glass. This team has a top ~3 D with Bogut out, but they're the best in the NBA on that end with him. Offensively I'd say they're top 6 without him, and top 2-3 with him.

The amount of "Warriors are pretenders" comments in here is funny. This team (for the first time in my life), is very clearly top 5 in the NBA and a true contender (it would be very tough to argue 3 teams ahead of them). Top defense, and a top 5 offense. That's insanely rare.

That said, could they lose in the 1st round? Yeah, definitely. 8 seed could be OKC or SAS. But the 8 seed might win the ship this year.

Chronz
01-03-2015, 03:36 PM
They're decidedly worse without Bogut, especially against teams with multiple bigs that crash the glass. This team has a top ~3 D with Bogut out, but they're the best in the NBA on that end with him. Offensively I'd say they're top 6 without him, and top 2-3 with him.
Just one thing, my point was never that they were a better team without Bogut. But as far as your claims, lots of teams rankings would change with complete health turnover but I agree that Bogut would be that kind of difference maker in this particular season.


The amount of "Warriors are pretenders" comments in here is funny. This team (for the first time in my life), is very clearly top 5 in the NBA and a true contender (it would be very tough to argue 3 teams ahead of them). Top defense, and a top 5 offense. That's insanely rare.

That said, could they lose in the 1st round? Yeah, definitely. 8 seed could be OKC or SAS. But the 8 seed might win the ship this year.

I hope you guys play OKC, it would just be sad, for either team. Takes out a major player early.

tredigs
01-03-2015, 04:01 PM
Just one thing, my point was never that they were a better team without Bogut. But as far as your claims, lots of teams rankings would change with complete health turnover but I agree that Bogut would be that kind of difference maker in this particular season.


I hope you guys play OKC, it would just be sad, for either team. Takes out a major player early.

^Valid

Blitzbolt
01-03-2015, 04:26 PM
They're decidedly worse without Bogut, especially against teams with multiple bigs that crash the glass. This team has a top ~3 D with Bogut out, but they're the best in the NBA on that end with him. Offensively I'd say they're top 6 without him, and top 2-3 with him.

The amount of "Warriors are pretenders" comments in here is funny. This team (for the first time in my life), is very clearly top 5 in the NBA and a true contender (it would be very tough to argue 3 teams ahead of them). Top defense, and a top 5 offense. That's insanely rare.

That said, could they lose in the 1st round? Yeah, definitely. 8 seed could be OKC or SAS. But the 8 seed might win the ship this year.I disagree completely with this even with Bogut the Warriors have one of the softest front courts in recent history plus they don't have playoff experience like others in the west.

Unless they find some bruser type player on the deadline the warriors will most likely get sweep in the playoffs.

tredigs
01-03-2015, 04:38 PM
I disagree completely with this even with Bogut the Warriors have one of the softest front courts in recent history plus they don't have playoff experience like others in the west.

Unless they find some bruser type player on the deadline the warriors will most likely get sweep in the playoffs.

Interesting. I can't come up with a much tougher front court than Dray Green/Bogut, especially when Igoudala's the other forward. Statistically, there's no set that even sniffs their combined defensive impact.

Allphakenny1
01-03-2015, 05:31 PM
I disagree completely with this even with Bogut the Warriors have one of the softest front courts in recent history plus they don't have playoff experience like others in the west.

Unless they find some bruser type player on the deadline the warriors will most likely get sweep in the playoffs.

You seem to have some type of agenda with your posts. Not sure if you hate the Warriors so your thoughts are clouded or you just know nothing about basketball, but you are definitely wrong on the soft part. Also, the Warriors were in the playoffs the last two years so I am unsure why those years do not count to you. Finally, if you really believe the Warriors look like a team that is about to get swept out of the playoffs, you might actually want to start watching some games before posting so you don't look so stupid.

Blitzbolt
01-03-2015, 06:19 PM
••Bogut won't survive a playoff series even though he has skills the guy is THE SOFTEST PLAYER in NBA.
•••Green is not soft at all but he is to short no matter how hard he playes almost every power foward in the west could just shot over him or push him around.
••Lee...lol just go look at the clippers series were BG own him hahaha.
••SlowMo aka Speights the guy can't rebound and Im pretty sure he might be mentality ********.

Then you add the fact that bigger physical defenders give the dub bros problems there is no reason why teams in the west should be afraid of this team especially since you know Bogut won't even play.

tredigs
01-03-2015, 06:30 PM
••Bogut won't survive a playoff series even though he has skills the guy is THE SOFTEST PLAYER in NBA.
•••Green is not soft at all but he is to short no matter how hard he playes almost every power foward in the west could just shot over him or push him around.
••Lee...lol just go look at the clippers series last year hahaha.
••SlowMo aka Speights the guy can't rebound and Im pretty sure he might be mentality ********.

Then you add the fact that bigger physical defenders give the dub bros problems there is no reason why teams in the west should be afraid of this team especially since you know Bogut won't even play.

Haha, I realize you don't watch the Warriors play, but Dray Green is not too short. The guy is 6'7", sure, but he has a 7'1"+ wingspan and absolutely dominates nearly all PF's defensively. He is arguably already the best defender in the NBA. He's #3 in the NBA in DRPM (behind Duncan and Bogut), #1 in Defensive win shares, #1 in Defensive rating, and #2 in Defensive Box +/- He guards literally every position at a very strong to elite level. Bogut is a monster when he's on the court... there is nothing soft about his play. Soft when he's taking his time with injuries? Maybe true. And it's a fair comment to think he won't play, though I'd imagine he'll muster through all he can in order to contend with this team this year.

Lee's not "soft" in any way, he just isn't a good defender. It's a good thing he's on the bench now, along with Speights. There isn't one soft player in the rotation right now. That's not me being a homer, that's me watching what is easily the best defense in the NBA destroy their opponents with swarming/relentless D more often than not on that end.

Blitzbolt
01-03-2015, 06:40 PM
Haha, I realize you don't watch the Warriors play, but Dray Green is not too short. The guy is 6'7", sure, but he has a 7'1"+ wingspan and absolutely dominates nearly all PF's defensively. He is arguably already the best defender in the NBA. He's #3 in the NBA in DRPM (behind Duncan and Bogut), #1 in Defensive win shares, #1 in Defensive rating, and #2 in Defensive Box +/- He guards literally every position at a very strong to elite level. Bogut is a monster when he's on the court... there is nothing soft about his play. Soft when he's taking his time with injuries? Maybe true. And it's a fair comment to think he won't play, though I'd imagine he'll muster through all he can in order to contend with this team this year.

Lee's not "soft" in any way, he just isn't a good defender. It's a good thing he's on the bench now, along with Speights. There isn't one soft player in the rotation right now. That's not me being a homer, that's me watching what is easily the best defense in the NBA destroy their opponents with swarming/relentless D more often than not on that end.

In the playoffs all does rankings mean nothing is all about matchups.Sure switching is fun and all but in the playoffs teams make you pay for that making Greens defense useless.
Ibaka
Dirk
Griffin
Duncan
Zbo
LA
And even Smith from the rockets would destroy any of the warriors PFs.

tredigs
01-03-2015, 06:51 PM
In the playoffs all does rankings mean nothing is all about matchups.Sure switching is fun and all but in the playoffs teams make you pay for that making Greens defense useless.
Ibaka
Dirk
Griffin
Duncan
Zbo
LA
And even Smith from the rockets would destroy any of the warriors PFs.

lol. Guess we'll see huh.

While we're waiting, here's something to check out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp9iun7DQCo

Take into consideration, he's better now. Like I already mentioned, arguably the best defender in the NBA.

Blitzbolt
01-03-2015, 06:58 PM
lol. Guess we'll see huh.

While we're waiting, here's something to check out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp9iun7DQCo

Take into consideration, he's better now. Like I already mentioned, arguably the best defender in the NBA.Bro I'm a Memphis Grizzlies fan all I seen is Defense for the past 5 years having the best defender in the NBA (Tony Allen..Marc Gasol ect..)or even the best defensive team means nothing when you go agains the Spurs or the thunder all does stats or fancy videos won't help you because guess what they also have a pretty good D and defenders.And you should know that by now.

Big reason why I don't even put my own team as contenders because they havent show me what I need to see in other for us to be contenders.

tredigs
01-03-2015, 07:13 PM
Bro I'm a Memphis Grizzlies fan all I seen is Defense for the past 5 years having the best defender in the NBA (Tony Allen..Marc Gasol ect..)or even the best defensive team means nothing when you go agains the Spurs or the thunder all does stats or fancy videos won't help you because guess what they also have a pretty good D and defenders.And you should know that by now.

Big reason why I don't even put my own team as contenders because they havent show me what I need to see in other for us to be contenders.

Despite the rep, Memphis had a top 5 D once. In 2012/13. And they made the WCF. Their offense was **** and they got beat up by SAS.

Like I've said, I would not be shocked if the Warriors lose round 1. But the 8th seed team can win it all. Regardless, it's a clear contending team. It's not often that the NBA has a team with a top 5 O and a top 5 D. Once a decade, maybe.

Blitzbolt
01-03-2015, 07:18 PM
Despite the rep, Memphis had a top 5 D once. In 2012/13. And they made the WCF. Their offense was **** and they got beat up by SAS.

Like I've said, I would not be shocked if the Warriors lose round 1. But the 8th seed team can win it all. Regardless, it's a clear contending team. It's not often that the NBA has a team with a top 5 O and a top 5 D. Once a decade, maybe.
We have been top 1 or 2 in points allow in the last 4 years.

Simple reason why I pick on your warriors and not someone like the rockets is because Bogut won't play and if he does he won't be at 100℅ is just that simple like it or not that makes the warriors pretenders.

tredigs
01-03-2015, 07:51 PM
We have been top 1 or 2 in points allow in the last 4 years.

Simple reason why I pick on your warriors and not someone like the rockets is because Bogut won't play and if he does he won't be at 100℅ is just that simple like it or not that makes the warriors pretenders.

Pace bud. The Grizzlies run the slowest pace in the NBA.

M.Bibby2.0
01-03-2015, 08:25 PM
I'm likely the minority here, but I question whether the OKC thunder are contenders. Durant and Westbrook are superstars, no question they are elite. My doubts are with the rest of the cast and perhaps the coaching. I don't think they have enough help, and it's too much to ask of two guys to carry a team through the brutal western bracket.

I think they're "top heavy" style can be exploited with elite defenses (see struggles in playoffs with Memphis).

Furthermore, if either of the big 2 get injured its over - they are unlikely to get past ANY Western playoff team if Durant or Westbrook are out.

They made the finals with Harden (and some significant help from the Zebras against SAS), and I don't think they have improved since then. Westbrook and Durant have gotten better, but not enough to compensate for the loss of Harden and the elite perimeter defense Tabo used to provide.

My final point: Kendrick Perkins is actually a rotational player for this team.


Anyways IMO,

Contenders: CHI, SAS, MEM

Gray area: Mavs, OKC, CLE (there is still time to figure it out, albeit they are awful now)

Pretenders: GSW, LAC, HOU, POR, TOR, ATL & WAS

Thumper 88
01-03-2015, 09:27 PM
I'm likely the minority here, but I question whether the OKC thunder are contenders. Durant and Westbrook are superstars, no question they are elite. My doubts are with the rest of the cast and perhaps the coaching. I don't think they have enough help, and it's too much to ask of two guys to carry a team through the brutal western bracket.

I think they're "top heavy" style can be exploited with elite defenses (see struggles in playoffs with Memphis).

Furthermore, if either of the big 2 get injured its over - they are unlikely to get past ANY Western playoff team if Durant or Westbrook are out.

They made the finals with Harden (and some significant help from the Zebras against SAS), and I don't think they have improved since then. Westbrook and Durant have gotten better, but not enough to compensate for the loss of Harden and the elite perimeter defense Tabo used to provide.

My final point: Kendrick Perkins is actually a rotational player for this team.


Anyways IMO,

Contenders: CHI, SAS, MEM

Gray area: Mavs, OKC, CLE (there is still time to figure it out, albeit they are awful now)

Pretenders: GSW, LAC, HOU, POR, TOR, ATL & WAS

Mavs are awful? Lol or was that in reference to the Cavs?

M.Bibby2.0
01-03-2015, 09:35 PM
Mavs are awful? Lol or was that in reference to the Cavs?

Just meant for the Cavs. Maybe awful isn't fair to say, they are decent even now compared to the rest of the East.


Mavs have always been tough to peg honestly. They have had dominant seasons that ended in first round exists, and when the window appeared to be closing/shut for Dirk they pulled out a ship.

Vampirate
01-04-2015, 04:13 PM
i just think the wizards have a better complete overal team with a good veteran bench then all the teams you mentioned. solid veteran in PP and a great leader in john wall and a solid upcoming player in bradley beal. Good defense and good offense. they also seem to me like the most stable east team. also the only team which hasnt realy had all those ups and downs with injuries (like bulls without rose in the lineup, raptors without derozan, cavs without irving etc.) maybe they are stil coming but to me the wizards just seem like the only team in the east that realy knows who they are, what theyre capable of and what their goal is and that makes them the best team in the east for me and maybe title contenders. stil not better then most west teams though

That's nice and all but the Wizards are meh in scoring, they have a very good defense but if they had the bench that you mentioned then they wouldn't be near 20th in offense. They can defend, dish and are a respectable rebounding team but they really need to work on their scoring.

Clippersfan86
01-04-2015, 06:52 PM
Blitzbolt Draymond Green is actually THE Griffin stopper and his arch nemesis. He's a very bad matchup for Griffin with his elite D and superior length. Him and Ibaka are the only bigs who can regularly stop Griffin.

As for the Clippers being pretenders on everybody's list, I wouldn't be so quick to fully label them. I personally think it's 50/50. By season end they can either be a pretender or contender and I'll explain why I feel this way.

Reasons they could be a true contender:

1. The Clippers just had their first practice as a team in almost two months. Once again, schedule makers have utterly fu**ed our team with an incredibly unbalanced schedule. The season started off extremely easy, then it was a fu** ton of B2B's, lengthy road trips, 4 in 5's, against high quality opponents. I won't be shocked if the Clippers go on another run where they win 9 or 10 straight like they did before this stretch recently.

2. Talent wise, the Clippers can hang with anyone in the league. Top to bottom as loaded as anyone.

3. Two top 10 players, DJ who's improved yet again and is a legit all star caliber player and Doc Rivers who although is a HORRENDOUS GM, is still a top 5 coach. I saw some people calling him second best in this thread and I'd disagree. I'd say he's more like the 4th best after Pop, Carlisle and Thibs.

4. Due to injuries, time needed to build chemistry the bench hasn't gelled yet. But in a few games there has been signs that they can be one of the best benches in the league. Last night the bench scored 59 points for example.



Reasons they may be a pretender:


1. Doc Rivers built an imbalanced team filled with offensive minded players. The team can score 120 any given night but can't consistently defend for 48 minutes. Although an interesting point many won't know is the Clippers have an elite clutch time defense AND that the starters are well above average. The big issue is that when the starters go to the bench, the team folds defensively.

2. The team has no mental fortitude. The minute a team roughs them up or gets physical they fold. They seem to have the mentality of a team who's coming off a championship, when in actuality they haven't won jack sh**.

3. That SF spot that has been lingering a few years now. The team doesn't have a SF athletic enough to guard wings and they get incredibly erratic production on offense there as well. I personally think Reggie Bullock should be getting way more minutes for development there. When he's gotten significant minutes he's been good.

Goose17
01-04-2015, 06:54 PM
Welcome back^ :cheers:

Clippersfan86
01-04-2015, 07:00 PM
BTW since I know someone will challenge me on the DJ being an all star caliber player.

WS/48: .200
PER: 19
ORTG: 128
DRTG: 99
TS%: 66
VOR: 4


I mean these are superstar numbers/contributions. His minutes are down a few from last year due to Hawes being on team but his PER 36 numbers are 10 ppg, 14.5 rpg, 2.5 bpg, 1 spg. Pretty monstrous.

Clippersfan86
01-04-2015, 07:01 PM
Welcome back^ :cheers:

Thanks bro. Grats on your Dubs being the best team in the league. I definitely do not want to see them come playoff time.

Vampirate
01-04-2015, 07:43 PM
Pace bud. The Grizzlies run the slowest pace in the NBA.

That honor goes to Miami so far.

tredigs
01-04-2015, 08:19 PM
That honor goes to Miami so far.

True so far this season... but the Grizz are the slowest pace team of the past few years overall. Coming in dead last the past couple years and still bottom 5 this year. The point was, his comment of the Grizz allowing the least points each year (as a reason for them as a top D) is not relevant without also mentioning the snail pace.

Blitzbolt
01-04-2015, 09:25 PM
Lol Clippersfan..griffin is not that hard to stop unless its David Lee or someone like that.

Also yes the Grizzlies are good defensively because of the pace but that's not the only reason Conley Allen and Gasol have been 1st second and third team all defense for a reason.

tredigs
01-04-2015, 10:48 PM
Lol Clippersfan..griffin is not that hard to stop unless its David Lee or someone like that.

Also yes the Grizzlies are good defensively because of the pace but that's not the only reason Conley Allen and Gasol have been 1st second and third team all defense for a reason.

No, you're missing my point. Pace has nothing to do with defensive ability. "Points against" has nothing to do with defensive ability. You could theoretically be an absolutely horrible defense and be among the league 'leaders' in points against. The Grizz D has been solid to very good since those guys have been on the squad, and in the 2012/13 year that I mentioned, they were great. Statistically almost as good as the Warriors this year.

Good job on renegging on your own claim of Griffin after made to feel dumb there.

lol, please
01-07-2015, 04:07 AM
Rockets: pretenders.
Bulls: contenders.

lol, please
01-18-2015, 01:56 PM
I still stand by the Rockets being pretenders, first round exit at best, like the Nuggets two seasons ago.

Cal827
01-18-2015, 06:59 PM
Pretenders: Raptors :laugh2:

kobe4thewinbang
01-18-2015, 07:28 PM
West: Spurs, Thunder, Warriors
East: Bulls, Cavaliers, Wizards

Everybody else might pull an upset but not likely.

FlashBolt
01-18-2015, 07:39 PM
Curious, why does no one believe in the Rockets excluding Houston fans?

Goose17
01-18-2015, 07:43 PM
Curious, why does no one believe in the Rockets excluding Houston fans?

Harden has been carrying that team a lot this season and he has a reputation as a choker in the post season. So if the guy carrying your team chokes you're probably ****ed.

At least, I assume that's their reasoning. I don't know.

lol, please
01-18-2015, 07:44 PM
Sounds about right.

kobe4thewinbang
01-18-2015, 09:39 PM
Harden has been carrying that team a lot this season and he has a reputation as a choker in the post season. So if the guy carrying your team chokes you're probably ****ed.

At least, I assume that's their reasoning. I don't know.no Chandler Parsons, iffy contrary Dwight, no real third option, no more Asik...

Legitimate
01-18-2015, 09:47 PM
contenders : Grizz, atlanta, san antonio, dallas

Pretenders : cavs, clippers, rockets...raptors!

Trwood12
01-18-2015, 10:09 PM
I love how nearly everyone in this thread has been totally neglecting the warriors. I've been following them very closely this season and they are legit contenders.

tredigs
01-18-2015, 10:20 PM
I love how nearly everyone in this thread has been totally neglecting the warriors. I've been following them very closely this season and they are legit contenders.
Most common NBA fans won't respect a team as a contender until after they've seen them get to the WCF or Finals. Just how it is. But yeah, I mean they have the best D and a top 5 O. That's extremely, extremely rare and virtually every time it's happened that team won the title. Barring injury, they will be the best team in the playoffs along with San Antonio.

lol, please
01-18-2015, 11:06 PM
Most common NBA fans won't respect a team as a contender until after they've seen them get to the WCF or Finals. Just how it is. But yeah, I mean they have the best D and a top 5 O. That's extremely, extremely rare and virtually every time it's happened that team won the title. Barring injury, they will be the best team in the playoffs along with San Antonio.
Well said. Good post.

Blitzbolt
01-19-2015, 12:27 AM
I agree the warrior's don't deserve respect they haven't done anything special.....yet anyways only time will tell.

IversonIsKrazy
01-19-2015, 12:41 AM
Contenders:
Spurs - defending champs, who have had a completely healthy roster 3 times this season. Kawhi back, watch out
GSW - they got the tools now, they stay healthy, defs contenders
Grizz - Had the tools, now they add Green off the bench, goddamn.
Bulls - IF healthy.

Pretenders:
Portland - They had a easier schedule thus far while other teams have been injured.
Rockets - Nope. Not enough to make WCF, let alone win.
Mavs - One of the best coached, but still not enough imo to win.
Clippers - Still need a legit SF.
Wiz - They're not scaring no west team.
Cavs - Too much defensive issues.
Raps - Not good enough overall to beat a Western team

Outside of both: Hawks. Have no effing idea lol

tredigs
01-19-2015, 01:20 AM
Hawks are very legit with Horford/Millsap both healthy and their backcourt playing at this level. That's a really tough O and D. A team full of veterans in their prime who are completely unselfish and working on both ends is scary.

Allphakenny1
01-19-2015, 02:11 AM
I agree the warrior's don't deserve respect they haven't done anything special.....yet anyways only time will tell.

I have never bought into the you do not deserve respect until you win at the end of the season argument. Many teams have won championships without going to the conference championship the year before.

However, by your argument, the Warriors, Mavericks, Rockets, Trailblazers, Bulls, Cavs, Raptors, Clippers, Hawks, Wizards, and especially the Grizzlies do not deserve any respect.

Allphakenny1
01-19-2015, 02:13 AM
Oh, and BTW,

the Heat, Pacers, Spurs, and Thunder are the only teams that deserve respect at this point.

Blitzbolt
01-21-2015, 01:03 AM
^^this guy answer my question for me.

dalton749
01-21-2015, 01:16 PM
This is why the raps are such pretenders
http://therunnersports.com/2015/01/20/toronto-raptors-scouting-report/