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Deception
12-27-2014, 01:54 AM
Last year there was a trade in place to trade Kyle Lowry and a 1st rounder to the Knicks for Metta World Peace, Iman Shumpert, and Felton. Eventually Dolan vetoed it because he didn't want to be taken for a run by Uriji again. However, looking back on it, it looks like another mistake by Dolan.

JasonJohnHorn
12-27-2014, 02:14 AM
I forget how far in the talks were... was that everything? I seem to remember the deal differently.

If that was it, then yes, the Knick fubar'ed that deal and Uriji should be very happy about it.

Not sure how that would have effected the Raptors. Obviously they wouldn't be as good now. MWP wouldn't have played for TO. He would have taken a buyout. Shump would be playing behind DM;DR, Felton would be ineffective and we'd be out a first-round pick.

Sounds like a bad deal all around. But as I remember, Uriji was worried about the contract he'd have to offer Lowry to stay and potentially losing him in free agency. But the 4-year/48 million deal seems reasonable, especially since Lowry is have his best season with career highs in a lot of categories and his first All-Star bid on the way.

As a Raptors fan, I am happy with how this turned out for now.

HoopsDrive
12-27-2014, 02:32 AM
If all of this is indeed true than, in hindsight, Ujiri should thank his lucky stars that Dolan turned the trade down. Because if this went through this looks to be one of the most one-sided deals in recent memory... an all-star PG for just a decent player. And NY also gets a 1st? Right now it seems ludicrous to think this was even offered by the Raptors in the first place.

Cal827
12-27-2014, 02:48 AM
If I'm not mistaken, it was only New York who would give away a first rounder (I believe 2018) as a bunch of picks are due to Denver from the Melo deal (as well as we get their first rounder next year).

It's funny hearing some reporters here saying that Ujiri chose to re-tool the team with the Gay trade. Cause this deal was looming, and would've immediately sent us into rebuild. There was talk that we would also try to Ship out Derozan too, since he would get a lot back for the future, and JV would become the future main star that was built around.

:laugh2:

We got very, very lucky that Dolan didn't want to ante up another first rounder. Otherwise, we might have been in a similar position to Philly, where we need to struggle for the next couple years in order to get good prospects.

Deception
12-27-2014, 03:43 AM
Here's the article, it says Lowry and a 1st in it, unless I'm reading it wrong.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24374200/report-james-dolan-blocked-knicks-trade-for-kyle-lowry
Regardless, even throwing in a first on NY's end, it's a steal for NY, they dump those contracts and pick up a cornerstone piece to pair with Melo

ghettosean
12-27-2014, 03:54 AM
Here's the article, it says Lowry and a 1st in it, unless I'm reading it wrong.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24374200/report-james-dolan-blocked-knicks-trade-for-kyle-lowry
Regardless, even throwing in a first on NY's end, it's a steal for NY, they dump those contracts and pick up a cornerstone piece to pair with Melo

It was NY giving up a first round pick...

If you read the full article it was poorly written and contradicts itself here's a qoute from your article:

" Really, it wasn't all that horrible of a trade. Giving up Shumpert would sting, especially since he's probably the Knicks most valuable trade asset outside of Carmelo Anthony, and letting go of another first rounder is just what the Knicks do. "

I followed the deal closely at the time it was the Knicks giving up the pick.

ghettosean
12-27-2014, 04:01 AM
Here are 2 more clear sources on the deal:

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=new-yorkknicks&id=53998&city=newyork&src=desktop

"The Knicks are offering packages including Iman Shumpert, Raymond Felton and Beno Udrih, sources say. They have been reluctant to include sharpshooting rookie Tim Hardaway Jr. or a future first-round draft pick in any deal. One of those two pieces is believed to be a prerequisite for Toronto to consider giving up Lowry. "

http://www.si.com/nba/point-forward/2013/12/12/report-knicks-in-trade-talks-to-acquire-kyle-lowry-from-the-raptors

"Per Stein, New York would likely have to send veteran point guard Raymond Felton and another player to Toronto in order to make the salaries work. According to Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports, that player would be Metta World Peace along with the team's 2018 first-round pick."

Deception
12-27-2014, 04:30 AM
It was NY giving up a first round pick...

If you read the full article it was poorly written and contradicts itself here's a qoute from your article:

" Really, it wasn't all that horrible of a trade. Giving up Shumpert would sting, especially since he's probably the Knicks most valuable trade asset outside of Carmelo Anthony, and letting go of another first rounder is just what the Knicks do. "

I followed the deal closely at the time it was the Knicks giving up the pick.

I'm surprised, usually it's ESPN who messes up their articles while CBS is one of the better sites. Regardless, I still think a 1st rounder on NY's end is not enough for Lowry, they essentially were dumping bad contracts and who knows how good the Knicks would be in 2018. I see where Dolan wouldn't want to be like the Nets with no picks, but still, Lowry and Melo on the Knicks would at least put them in playoff picture.

NiNerRider415
12-27-2014, 06:46 AM
At first I thought it might be a thread asking where the warriors and Knicks would be if steph curry and Jordan hill would have switched spots

Miltstar
12-27-2014, 10:37 AM
You gotta remember Lowry hadn't really come out of his shell at that time either, there was still a debate between him and Calderon as to who should be the starter. Rudy and Demar were dominating the ball, the team was something like 8-12 and we were looking at another season of losing ball!

Miltstar
12-27-2014, 10:37 AM
At first I thought it might be a thread asking where the warriors and Knicks would be if steph curry and Jordan hill would have switched spots

Knicks would be a great team, it's pretty much impossible not to find the pieces to fit with Steph!

BALLER R
12-27-2014, 11:25 AM
You gotta remember Lowry hadn't really come out of his shell at that time either, there was still a debate between him and Calderon as to who should be the starter. Rudy and Demar were dominating the ball, the team was something like 8-12 and we were looking at another season of losing ball!

Calderon was gone when Rudy came, The raptors were looking to blow the team up, first shipping off Rudy. Signs pointed to Lowry and Demar being traded next. If the Rudy trade didn't make the team better I'm 100% sure half the guys on the team wouldn't be here today.

ghettosean
12-27-2014, 11:30 AM
You gotta remember Lowry hadn't really come out of his shell at that time either, there was still a debate between him and Calderon as to who should be the starter. Rudy and Demar were dominating the ball, the team was something like 8-12 and we were looking at another season of losing ball!

Jose was actually traded to get Gay originally to make the salaries work but you were right on the Raps under achieving record before the Gay trade another reason for the deal was Lowry didn't commit to resigning at the time either with the Raptors so there was also the possibility that we just could lose him for nothing on top of having a losing season to that point.

We were lucky he vetoed the trade for obvious reasons but we basically sent a "protected" 1st round pick and Gary Forbes to Houston for Lowry originally. I think this is why Masai was so keen on receiving a pick back in the deal.

Glad it didn't happen though I remember wanting to tank because everything was so grim with our start to the season and I remember dreaming at the chance of Wiggins on the Raps so bad but i can't complain and we've been pretty patient waiting for a winning squad now.... Too patient actually. I'm glad to be winning now instead of still dreaming.

Dolan did **** the bed on that deal though and the Bargs deal as well when you look back on it all.

cssdmark
12-27-2014, 11:54 AM
Last year there was a trade in place to trade Kyle Lowry and a 1st rounder to the Knicks for Metta World Peace, Iman Shumpert, and Felton. Eventually Dolan vetoed it because he didn't want to be taken for a run by Uriji again. However, looking back on it, it looks like another mistake by Dolan.

Your wrong, the Knicks had to give up a first to Toronto or Toronto wanted both Tim and Shump in the deal.

cssdmark
12-27-2014, 12:01 PM
NYC just gave the 1st round pick for the wrong player Bargs

Deception
12-27-2014, 03:01 PM
NYC just gave the 1st round pick for the wrong player Bargs

That deal was made prior to any talks of Lowry if memory serves me correct

nycericanguy
12-27-2014, 03:34 PM
Lowry had a lot of red flags at the moment of course... don't think anyone could have thought he would explode all of a sudden.

that being said, if the Knicks end up getting Okafor or a franchise player this summer in the draft, it will be because they didn't make that trade.

dtmagnet
12-27-2014, 03:39 PM
It would have been a decent trade for the Raptors at the time, and who knows how Lowry would have performed next to Carmelo. Lowry didn't truly blossom until Gay was gone so who's to say he would have ever reached this level playing next to Carmelo? Hindsight of course shows us that the Raptors would not be on top of the East without Lowry but who knows where the Knicks would be, I think they would definitely be better than they are right now though.

nycericanguy
12-27-2014, 03:47 PM
It would have been a decent trade for the Raptors at the time, and who knows how Lowry would have performed next to Carmelo. Lowry didn't truly blossom until Gay was gone so who's to say he would have ever reached this level playing next to Carmelo? Hindsight of course shows us that the Raptors would not be on top of the East without Lowry but who knows where the Knicks would be, I think they would definitely be better than they are right now though.

definitely... but at this point I'm not sure thats a good thing.

I'm really hoping we continue to lose... Knicks havent had a top 5 pick in my lifetime... a guy like Okafor could really change the fortune of this team...

ghettosean
12-27-2014, 04:07 PM
Lowry had a lot of red flags at the moment of course... don't think anyone could have thought he would explode all of a sudden.

that being said, if the Knicks end up getting Okafor or a franchise player this summer in the draft, it will be because they didn't make that trade.

As i remember people said Lowry was a contract player and a locker room cancer.

nycericanguy
12-27-2014, 04:11 PM
As i remember people said Lowry was a contract player and a locker room cancer.

yup... not to mention the injury history, weight issues, issues with McHale when Dragic took his starting role...

He had alot of issues...even in TOR his first year a lot of fans wanted him gone. but maybe Masaii got through to him, or maybe he was just a late bloomer like Billups...

Its funny if you go back just 1 year I would say most TOR fans wanted him gone, and no one would have ever wanted to keep him at $12m... but things changed real quick,

bucketss
12-27-2014, 04:24 PM
i still can't believe knicks gave up a first rounder for bargs.

ghettosean
12-27-2014, 04:25 PM
Knicks and Raptor fans agreeing it's a wonderful thing :)

ghettosean
12-27-2014, 04:25 PM
i still can't believe knicks gave up a first rounder for bargs.

You just spoiled a special moment... lol

Miltstar
12-27-2014, 04:42 PM
yup... not to mention the injury history, weight issues, issues with McHale when Dragic took his starting role...

He had alot of issues...even in TOR his first year a lot of fans wanted him gone. but maybe Masaii got through to him, or maybe he was just a late bloomer like Billups...

Its funny if you go back just 1 year I would say most TOR fans wanted him gone, and no one would have ever wanted to keep him at $12m... but things changed real quick,

If you hear him talk when Lowry came to Toronto he wanted nothing to do with the Raptors, he wanted to play out his contract and leave. But there is a special connection with our team. A lot of young players with a lot of young families, even Casey and Massai have young families. Something happens to a man when he becomes a father and it is one of the best ways to mature someone quickly.

The open gym show brings a lot of perspective to the situation and I honestly think the culture and family like bond our team has formed has really driven the success we've seen on the court.

Tony_Starks
12-27-2014, 10:34 PM
Yeah I read a interview this summer where Lowry literally said when he heard he'd been traded to Toronto he was pissed. He said planned to just finish his contract and leave. So at the time this trade was proposed it was looking like the Raptors were going to lose him for nothing.

Hindsight is 20/20 but it wasn't a absurd trade at the time....

LanceUpperCut
12-27-2014, 10:44 PM
Just imagine if the trade went down and Lowry still signed with the Raps.

Vampirate
12-27-2014, 11:15 PM
The better question would be, if Lowry was traded to New York, would he flourish like he's doing now? Would he resign with the Knicks as well. Things just really clicked with Lowry here, he found the perfect situation I guess.

bucketss
12-28-2014, 12:25 AM
if the trade went down, toronto would be a lottery team, they would win the draft lottery and select wiggins. this effects cleveland because now they don't have the assets to trade for love. love becomes a warrior, lebron stays in miami.


;):cool:

Deception
12-28-2014, 02:10 AM
if the trade went down, toronto would be a lottery team, they would win the draft lottery and select wiggins. this effects cleveland because now they don't have the assets to trade for love. love becomes a warrior, lebron stays in miami.


;):cool:

No Wiggins, means no Kevin Love, which potentially means no LeBron, which means Cleveland would suck again. Damn Dolan, why veto the trade?