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Tony_Starks
12-25-2014, 03:19 PM
East

Gasol
Melo
Lebron
Wade
Wall

West

Gasol
AD
Griffin
Kobe
Curry

The exact numbers are on nba.com. The only ones that are absolute locks ( at least 100,000 votes away from the next guy) are Lebron, Kobe, and Curry. Everyone else is within like 30k votes or so from the next player. Lebron leads all votes.

jaydubb
12-25-2014, 03:22 PM
I'm glad Anthony Davis is getting some love, he deserves to start

ThuglifeJ
12-25-2014, 03:45 PM
Wow no Rockets or Raptors starting...

upset about the Raptors part though. Lowry should be in over Wade.

Tony_Starks
12-25-2014, 04:10 PM
Wow no Rockets or Raptors starting...

upset about the Raptors part though. Lowry should be in over Wade.

Ehh... I'm OK with Wade starting, he's having a pretty nice year. I'm sure Lowry will get in as a reserve though.

Shammyguy3
12-25-2014, 04:19 PM
Kobe :puke:

Chronz
12-25-2014, 04:56 PM
Ehh... I'm OK with Wade starting, he's having a pretty nice year. I'm sure Lowry will get in as a reserve though.

By pretty nice year you mean the worst since his rookie year and most certainly the least impressive production+winning rates of any other eligible player.

Tony_Starks
12-25-2014, 05:27 PM
Ehh... I'm OK with Wade starting, he's having a pretty nice year. I'm sure Lowry will get in as a reserve though.

By pretty nice year you mean the worst since his rookie year and most certainly the least impressive production+winning rates of any other eligible player.

Yeah that's precisely what I mean...

numba1CHANGsta
12-25-2014, 05:58 PM
If you guys are gonna complain about Kobe then you better complain about Wade as well

KnicksorBust
12-25-2014, 06:06 PM
Harden and Lowry getting the shaft.

mngopher35
12-25-2014, 06:12 PM
Harden and Lowry getting the shaft.

Yup, they should both be in. I think it's to be expected Kobe and wade make it on name value though. We always hear how it's a popularity contest.

abe_froman
12-25-2014, 06:17 PM
If you guys are gonna complain about Kobe then you better complain about Wade as well

i do complain,it should be kyle lowery or jimmy butler instead of wade....but wade is much more deserving than kobe is this year

FraziersKnicks
12-25-2014, 06:20 PM
If you guys are gonna complain about Kobe then you better complain about Wade as well

Why?

Wade is at least semi deserving.

23/4/6 on 51% shooting compared to Kobe's putrid 25/5/5 on 37% shooting.

Kobe deserves to be nowhere near the All-Star team. There are soon many more deserving guards in the West who will miss out because of the popularity contest the voting has become.

Shammyguy3
12-25-2014, 06:26 PM
If you guys are gonna complain about Kobe then you better complain about Wade as well

nowhere near the same thing, Wade's having a pretty solid year and should make the team as a backup. Kobe on the other hand should not be considered for anything

MagicBucsSox
12-25-2014, 06:54 PM
Why?

Wade is at least semi deserving.

23/4/6 on 51% shooting compared to Kobe's putrid 25/5/5 on 37% shooting.

Kobe deserves to be nowhere near the All-Star team. There are soon many more deserving guards in the West who will miss out because of the popularity contest the voting has become.

But wade's played 4 games lol.

tredigs
12-25-2014, 06:54 PM
By pretty nice year you mean the worst since his rookie year and most certainly the least impressive production+winning rates of any other eligible player.

Still, better than most predicted. I think I had him pegged at 23/5/6 on slightly lower efficiency than last year and it was looked at as a really optimistic take by most on here. But look at it about a third of the way through the year? That's pretty much where he's at. His lateral quickness and explosiveness is down (in part why his D sucks this year), but his 3 ball has never been better. If he was hitting his FTs at his normal % rate (looks like he's at 67.9%... has never shot below 73% for a season), it would actually be a very efficient offensive season. By OBPM he's matching his best since Lebron came over. PER of 23.4. I mean, he's outproducing what most expected.

tredigs
12-25-2014, 07:11 PM
Here's the rundown of the votes so far:

548148256942071808

ChI_ShIzzLe
12-25-2014, 07:25 PM
Jimmy Butler should be the starting SG in the East.

JasonJohnHorn
12-25-2014, 07:59 PM
If you are talking about who deserves to be in the starting line-up... in the West... if you are going with one PG and one SG, it should be Curry and Harden hands down. CP3 is playing great as well.

Kobe shouldn't even be in the conversation for an All-Star nod this year.


Davis should be in the line up as well. I think the other two front court spots are up in the air a little. I think Durant and Griffin will end up there... but Gasol is obviously deserving. We have to see more games fro Durant and Westy since they've only played ten games or so this year.


In the east things are a little less clear. LBJ and Wall should both be starting... after that? Who knows. ATL and TO have the best teams... so my guy says they should have representation. In that care Horford for ATL and Lowry for TO. I love Gasol's game, so I'd love to see him on the team.


Regardless of level of play, I think Wade and Melo will both make the team due to popularity. Melo deserves it.

I'm not sure I get people comparing Wade's season to Kobe's. Wade is CLEARLY playing at a MUCH higher level than Kobe. Over .500 from the floor? About 23 points, 5.5 assists and almost 4 rebounds? That is a great season. And that with less than 33 minutes a game. His turnovers a little high, but.... Wade deserves an All-Star nod. Over Lowry? I'm biased as a Toronto fan, but I got no problem with fans voting Wade into the starting line-up.

jerellh528
12-25-2014, 08:02 PM
Pretty predictable lineups. I'm thinking kobe might give his spot up. If he plays in the asg and rests regular season games I'll be pissed

jerellh528
12-25-2014, 08:17 PM
If you are talking about who deserves to be in the starting line-up... in the West... if you are going with one PG and one SG, it should be Curry and Harden hands down. CP3 is playing great as well.

Kobe shouldn't even be in the conversation for an All-Star nod this year.


Davis should be in the line up as well. I think the other two front court spots are up in the air a little. I think Durant and Griffin will end up there... but Gasol is obviously deserving. We have to see more games fro Durant and Westy since they've only played ten games or so this year.


In the east things are a little less clear. LBJ and Wall should both be starting... after that? Who knows. ATL and TO have the best teams... so my guy says they should have representation. In that care Horford for ATL and Lowry for TO. I love Gasol's game, so I'd love to see him on the team.


Regardless of level of play, I think Wade and Melo will both make the team due to popularity. Melo deserves it.

I'm not sure I get people comparing Wade's season to Kobe's. Wade is CLEARLY playing at a MUCH higher level than Kobe. Over .500 from the floor? About 23 points, 5.5 assists and almost 4 rebounds? That is a great season. And that with less than 33 minutes a game. His turnovers a little high, but.... Wade deserves an All-Star nod. Over Lowry? I'm biased as a Toronto fan, but I got no problem with fans voting Wade into the starting line-up.

Way to contradict your own self hahah

LAKERS4LIFE!!
12-25-2014, 08:33 PM
Here's the rundown of the votes so far:

548148256942071808

Looking at this just makes me realize how much more talent there is in the West. Outside of James, the front court of the West is just way better imo

blahblahyoutoo
12-25-2014, 08:37 PM
If you guys are gonna complain about Kobe then you better complain about Wade as well

riiiight.

InRoseWeTrust
12-25-2014, 09:03 PM
Jimmy Buckets getting the shaft.

LakersA's49ers
12-25-2014, 09:12 PM
how about the Gasol brothers? endless respect for those ballers. Great to see Curry and AD get some serious representation in the voting system as well.

obviously my man, Mamba, is a struggle bus this season, so that spot should belong to Harden, but the ASG doesn't mean jack, so we may as well have the most popular and fun to watch ballers in the game, I see you Carmelo.

All in all, not an awful list. I think the fans got 6 of 10 correct

JasonJohnHorn
12-25-2014, 09:18 PM
riiiight.

I know... I'm not even a Heat fan and I think Wade is playing well. He's shooting over .500 from the floor... Kobe is shooting under .400. That is better than a 10 percent different.

jerellh528
12-25-2014, 09:19 PM
How does that contradict myself?

I don't think Kobe should even be in the conversation. And I think some will get in due to popularity, regardless of what level they are playing at.

Those two ideas contradict each other how?

Uhhhh. Seriously?

ATX
12-25-2014, 09:23 PM
If you guys are gonna complain about Kobe then you better complain about Wade as well

Wade is deserving, Kobe is meh...Not much more to say. 23 PPG on 51% FG% for Wade, and 25 PPG on 37% FG% for Kobe. One line is efficient and the other is a chucker line.

Avenged
12-25-2014, 10:12 PM
Good to see Pau in the starting lineup thus far.

WaDe03
12-25-2014, 10:12 PM
By pretty nice year you mean the worst since his rookie year and most certainly the least impressive production+winning rates of any other eligible player.

Worst since his rookie year in what way? This is his best since the first year of the big 3.

Hard to have a good record when we have a new player out every game.

I do remember you bashing Wade before the year saying he was done. He's proved you wrong.

JasonJohnHorn
12-25-2014, 10:30 PM
Worst since his rookie year in what way? This is his best since the first year of the big 3.

Hard to have a good record when we have a new player out every game.

I do remember you bashing Wade before the year saying he was done. He's proved you wrong.

Yeah... I don't see that either. And even if it is one of his worst seasons, he's played at a high level each season. Even his worst season since his rookie year was an All-Star season.

Kyben36
12-25-2014, 10:32 PM
depends on the bench, but i think that bosh could start over gasol in the east by the end, but as long as Jimmy Butler and Pau Gasol both make it, im happy, Rose and Noah are dark horses for the bulls for allstars, but i would not mind them not makin it.

but here are a FEW things

Harden > Kobe

Durrant > Blake ( spacing would be terrible)

Irving <> Wall, really dont care who starts, both could. and neither would bother me.

WaDe03
12-25-2014, 11:12 PM
Yeah... I don't see that either. And even if it is one of his worst seasons, he's played at a high level each season. Even his worst season since his rookie year was an All-Star season.

Exactly. People are so quick to say he sucks now. I don't understand it.

nickdymez
12-26-2014, 02:06 AM
Lmao @ everyone mad at kobe. Oh welll

ThuglifeJ
12-26-2014, 02:09 AM
Eh I'm going Curry and Westbrook at my guard spots.. Sorry harden but who wants to watch that at an ASG. U and dame can be reserves.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-26-2014, 10:10 AM
Remember there's 7 front court players and 5 backcourt players for each team. Also fans only vote in the starters coaches vote in bench 7. So the coaches voting has to fix the mess from the BS fans voting.

mightybosstone
12-26-2014, 11:50 AM
It blows my mind that Kobe is getting more votes than Harden. I get that there are a ton of Lakers fans, but you'd think the average number of NBA fans would greatly outnumber Lakers fans and that the average NBA fan would clearly vote for Harden over Kobe this year. I just don't get it...

mightybosstone
12-26-2014, 11:53 AM
Eh I'm going Curry and Westbrook at my guard spots.. Sorry harden but who wants to watch that at an ASG. U and dame can be reserves.
You can't be serious dude... Westbrook has played in 16 games. And his team is two games under .500. You're picking him over a guy whose team is winning nearly 3/4 of its games despite injuries and who his putting up numbers nearly just as good. This is definitely one of those posts where your obvious hatred is starting to show a bit.

2-ONE-5
12-26-2014, 11:56 AM
this is why i hate fan votes. get Kobe and Wade out of there please

tredigs
12-26-2014, 12:47 PM
It blows my mind that Kobe is getting more votes than Harden. I get that there are a ton of Lakers fans, but you'd think the average number of NBA fans would greatly outnumber Lakers fans and that the average NBA fan would clearly vote for Harden over Kobe this year. I just don't get it...

It's more surprising to me that you think Harden would be the one receiving more votes than Kobe. He's top 2 in voting virtually every season, and Harden has as a reputation as a player that most people don't particularly like watching play. It isn't "right", but I don't really see how this legitimately surprises you. That said, Kobe taking this time off is going to hurt his votes -- so Harden could make it somewhat close rather than a blowout if he puts up something casual fans/ESPN like such as 10 straight 30+ point games.


You can't be serious dude... Westbrook has played in 16 games. And his team is two games under .500. You're picking him over a guy whose team is winning nearly 3/4 of its games despite injuries and who his putting up numbers nearly just as good. This is definitely one of those posts where your obvious hatred is starting to show a bit.

Still, 16 games is already >half the season, and he has probably outplayed Harden in that span. Plus, he's as exciting a player to watch in the NBA. That's not a very controversial choice by Thug. From a merit standpoint in what he's done to help his team, sure, Harden deserves the nod, but that isn't what AS voting is entirely about. I'd personally be much more disappointed not to watch Westbrook during AS weekend than Harden, that's for sure. That said, both will make it and neither will start. Non issue.

jerellh528
12-26-2014, 01:08 PM
It blows my mind that Kobe is getting more votes than Harden. I get that there are a ton of Lakers fans, but you'd think the average number of NBA fans would greatly outnumber Lakers fans and that the average NBA fan would clearly vote for Harden over Kobe this year. I just don't get it...

Harden isn't fun to watch. Kobe even at this age is better to watch than harden, if nothing else just to cherish his last games

mightybosstone
12-26-2014, 01:34 PM
Harden isn't fun to watch. Kobe even at this age is better to watch than harden, if nothing else just to cherish his last games

You must not watch many Rockets games then. Because I think he's become one of the more entertaining players in the league. He's been fantastic the last couple of weeks in particular. That game against Portland was insane.

mightybosstone
12-26-2014, 01:39 PM
It's more surprising to me that you think Harden would be the one receiving more votes than Kobe. He's top 2 in voting virtually every season, and Harden has as a reputation as a player that most people don't particularly like watching play. It isn't "right", but I don't really see how this legitimately surprises you. That said, Kobe taking this time off is going to hurt his votes -- so Harden could make it somewhat close rather than a blowout if he puts up something casual fans/ESPN like such as 10 straight 30+ point games.

Still, 16 games is already >half the season, and he has probably outplayed Harden in that span. Plus, he's as exciting a player to watch in the NBA. That's not a very controversial choice by Thug. From a merit standpoint in what he's done to help his team, sure, Harden deserves the nod, but that isn't what AS voting is entirely about. I'd personally be much more disappointed not to watch Westbrook during AS weekend than Harden, that's for sure. That said, both will make it and neither will start. Non issue.

Whether All-Star voting is based on merit or not, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be. The players that have played the best and deserve to start are the players that should be starting. And there isn't a chance in hell that you could argue that Harden doesn't deserve to start. But I realize that there are obviously a lot of homers and idiots out there who will vote for players regardless of how they're performing. That doesn't make it right.

Regardless, Harden will still get his recognition when the All-NBA teams come out at the end of the season.

ThuglifeJ
12-26-2014, 01:42 PM
It blows my mind that Kobe is getting more votes than Harden. I get that there are a ton of Lakers fans, but you'd think the average number of NBA fans would greatly outnumber Lakers fans and that the average NBA fan would clearly vote for Harden over Kobe this year. I just don't get it...

Reality check..




Jk.

Asia.


Duh.

ThuglifeJ
12-26-2014, 01:53 PM
Eh I'm going Curry and Westbrook at my guard spots.. Sorry harden but who wants to watch that at an ASG. U and dame can be reserves.
You can't be serious dude... Westbrook has played in 16 games. And his team is two games under .500. You're picking him over a guy whose team is winning nearly 3/4 of its games despite injuries and who his putting up numbers nearly just as good. This is definitely one of those posts where your obvious hatred is starting to show a bit.

No your super over aggressive whinyness is showing. You could put a gun to my head I would rather see Westbrook and curry as the guards at an all star game over harden by a LONG shot. That duo of fearless attacks crossovers and obviously wet 3s is entertaining.

Plus Westbrook has been beasting. He deserves it, he entertains.

No one wants to watch harden free throws.

Ur such a homer. Its awful.

mightybosstone
12-26-2014, 02:06 PM
No your super over aggressive whinyness is showing. You could put a gun to my head I would rather see Westbrook and curry as the guards at an all star game over harden by a LONG shot. That duo of fearless attacks crossovers and obviously wet 3s is entertaining.

Plus Westbrook has been beasting. He deserves it, he entertains.

No one wants to watch harden free throws.

Ur such a homer. Its awful.

:laugh:

Hawkeye15
12-26-2014, 02:10 PM
If you are talking about who deserves to be in the starting line-up... in the West... if you are going with one PG and one SG, it should be Curry and Harden hands down. CP3 is playing great as well.

Kobe shouldn't even be in the conversation for an All-Star nod this year.


Davis should be in the line up as well. I think the other two front court spots are up in the air a little. I think Durant and Griffin will end up there... but Gasol is obviously deserving. We have to see more games fro Durant and Westy since they've only played ten games or so this year.


In the east things are a little less clear. LBJ and Wall should both be starting... after that? Who knows. ATL and TO have the best teams... so my guy says they should have representation. In that care Horford for ATL and Lowry for TO. I love Gasol's game, so I'd love to see him on the team.


Regardless of level of play, I think Wade and Melo will both make the team due to popularity. Melo deserves it.

I'm not sure I get people comparing Wade's season to Kobe's. Wade is CLEARLY playing at a MUCH higher level than Kobe. Over .500 from the floor? About 23 points, 5.5 assists and almost 4 rebounds? That is a great season. And that with less than 33 minutes a game. His turnovers a little high, but.... Wade deserves an All-Star nod. Over Lowry? I'm biased as a Toronto fan, but I got no problem with fans voting Wade into the starting line-up.

you say Wade and Melo should make it due to popularity, but Kobe shouldn't?

I stopped getting uppity a long time ago over all star games. It's a popularity contest, and Kobe has a ton of fans. He will be named a starter, and play.

Hawkeye15
12-26-2014, 02:11 PM
No your super over aggressive whinyness is showing. You could put a gun to my head I would rather see Westbrook and curry as the guards at an all star game over harden by a LONG shot. That duo of fearless attacks crossovers and obviously wet 3s is entertaining.

Plus Westbrook has been beasting. He deserves it, he entertains.

No one wants to watch harden free throws.

Ur such a homer. Its awful.

I certainly don't want to watch Harden, but he 1000000% deserves to be there, and has been the best SG in the game this year.

Longhornfan1234
12-26-2014, 02:17 PM
I don't want to watch a manufactured star Harden. Westbrook should get the nod. He's clearly the better player.

mightybosstone
12-26-2014, 02:46 PM
I don't want to watch a manufactured star Harden. Westbrook should get the nod. He's clearly the better player.

Harden's had the better season. Period.

Hawkeye15
12-26-2014, 02:53 PM
Harden's had the better season. Period.

even if someone is attempting to debate that, Westbrook missed a bunch of games. It just makes the argument null

Lakers + Giants
12-26-2014, 03:40 PM
How the hell can u be surprised that kobe is getting so many votes?? The starters get in because the fans vote, so obviously theres gonna be a player or two that get in due to popularity.

News flash people, kobe is gonna get voted in as a starter next year as well.

Hawkeye15
12-26-2014, 03:42 PM
How the hell can u be surprised that kobe is getting so many votes?? The starters get in because the fans vote, so obviously theres gonna be a player or two that get in due to popularity.

News flash people, kobe is gonna get voted in as a starter next year as well.

I mean, seriously, it's not that complicated. He will make it as a 50 year old playing in a wheel chair if he sticks around that long. It's a FANS game, not "who is playing the best this specific year, via the data"

J_M_B
12-26-2014, 03:56 PM
Jimmy Butler deserves to be one of the starting guards, but that being said I don't understand the outcry against Wade. He's been a joy to watch this season. Especially since he's outproducing what a lot of people expected. Definitely should be on the roster.

JasonJohnHorn
12-26-2014, 04:22 PM
you say Wade and Melo should make it due to popularity, but Kobe shouldn't?

I stopped getting uppity a long time ago over all star games. It's a popularity contest, and Kobe has a ton of fans. He will be named a starter, and play.

I didn't say 'should' make it based on popularity... I sadi they woudl likely get voted regardless of talent due to popularity, but both are playing well enough to get an All-Star nod.

I don't think Kobe should be in the conversation. He's playing like $#!T. If his name wasn't Kobe Bryant, he likely wouldn't even be on a roster right now.

Hawkeye15
12-26-2014, 04:43 PM
I didn't say 'should' make it based on popularity... I sadi they woudl likely get voted regardless of talent due to popularity, but both are playing well enough to get an All-Star nod.

I don't think Kobe should be in the conversation. He's playing like $#!T. If his name wasn't Kobe Bryant, he likely wouldn't even be on a roster right now.

Kobe would not get in as a reserve, but the fans decide the starters, as it should be. I have no problem with Kobe being there, the fans obviously want to see him there.

Lakers + Giants
12-26-2014, 04:44 PM
I mean, seriously, it's not that complicated. He will make it as a 50 year old playing in a wheel chair if he sticks around that long. It's a FANS game, not "who is playing the best this specific year, via the data"

Exactly. It's the same **** as last year, kobe got voted in as a starter despite only playing 6 games. Why did he get voted in? Because of his name. As long as kobe keeps playing, expect him to be voted in as a starter in the AS game. It's not fair but its not the first time it has happened. Not shocking at all.

ILLUSIONIST^248
12-26-2014, 04:45 PM
If you guys are gonna complain about Kobe then you better complain about Wade as well

Why?

Wade is at least semi deserving.

23/4/6 on 51% shooting compared to Kobe's putrid 25/5/5 on 37% shooting.

Kobe deserves to be nowhere near the All-Star team. There are soon many more deserving guards in the West who will miss out because of the popularity contest the voting has become.

Cry me a river. Kobe's going to be an all star, get over it

Hawkeye15
12-26-2014, 04:49 PM
I mean, did AI deserve to be an all star in 09-10'? He was worse than Kobe is now easily, and made it as a starter. It's the fan vote guys, get over it

Mr.B
12-26-2014, 04:49 PM
Wow no Rockets or Raptors starting...

upset about the Raptors part though. Lowry should be in over Wade.

Aren't starters are still selected 100% by the fans? If it is then who deserves to start has nothing to do with it. It's whoever the majority of fans want to see. If Yao Ming were still on an active roster he would have been selected as the starting center even if he hadn't played all year.

Lakers + Giants
12-26-2014, 04:50 PM
People should just be glad the reserves arent chosen by the fans. Otherwise the internet would explode.

Hawkeye15
12-26-2014, 04:55 PM
People should just be glad the reserves arent chosen by the fans. Otherwise the internet would explode.

haha yes. You would have people voting for Vince cause of his dunk over the french dude....30 years ago

Lakers + Giants
12-26-2014, 05:02 PM
LMAO. If only the fans could vote for the Dunk Contest. Would be interesting to see who the fans vote in.

Tony_Starks
12-26-2014, 05:02 PM
It blows my mind that Kobe is getting more votes than Harden. I get that there are a ton of Lakers fans, but you'd think the average number of NBA fans would greatly outnumber Lakers fans and that the average NBA fan would clearly vote for Harden over Kobe this year. I just don't get it...

I'm going to tell you a really big secret that may be earth shattering for you. You ready? Kobe actually has a lot of fans outside of CA that aren't even Laker fans just NBA fans. Some of these are actually under the impression he's one of the greatest ever and relish any opportunity to see him play whether its against their home team or at a all-star game.

I know, crazy right?

Hawkeye15
12-26-2014, 05:10 PM
I'm going to tell you a really big secret that may be earth shattering for you. You ready? Kobe actually has a lot of fans outside of CA that aren't even Laker fans just NBA fans. Some of these are actually under the impression he's one of the greatest ever and relish any opportunity to see him play whether its against their home team or at a all-star game.

I know, crazy right?

Kobe gets a huge international vote as well even

jerellh528
12-26-2014, 05:12 PM
This is the all star team, not all NBA team, if he was voted 1st team all NBA then you have an argument otherwise, you don't. Fact is kobe is still the second biggest draw and star the NBA has right now. He's going to be an all star as voted by the fans because the fans want to see him. Simple. It doesn't matter if you think he should be in the all star game, hundreds of thousands seem to think the opposite. I personally like that he got the nod, but I believe he should give up his spot to cp3 or Westbrook so he can just keep resting.

Lakers + Giants
12-26-2014, 05:19 PM
I too think hell give up his spot. If not, i expect him to play only a few minutes. The real all star SGs will get more playing time.

Longhornfan1234
12-26-2014, 05:43 PM
Harden's had the better season. Period.

Westbrook is averaging less TOs and more points. Higher PER and WS/48. Westbrook is better defender and puts more pressure on the defense. Step back from the keyboard.

Tony_Starks
12-26-2014, 06:01 PM
He'll come in and knock down a couple fadeaways for the fans and then hit the bench so Lillard and Westbrook can put on a show.....

TheIlladelph16
12-26-2014, 07:04 PM
My only real issue with the fan voting and popularity contest results is that too often ASG appearances are listed when talking about a player's accolades and comparing him to other all-time greats. At this point, ASG appearances mean absolutely nothing if the best players don't actually get the votes. It should be treated as the popularity contest it is.

mightybosstone
12-26-2014, 07:51 PM
Westbrook is averaging less TOs and more points. Higher PER and WS/48. Westbrook is better defender and puts more pressure on the defense. Step back from the keyboard.

Westbrook's also played in like 11 fewer games and he's playing for a 14-16 basketball team. If he had played more of the season and OKC's record were better, I would agree that his performance has been better than Harden's. But the sample size isn't remotely the same and we aren't talking about the same level of team success. Harden's season has been better at this point.

Hawkeye15
12-26-2014, 08:03 PM
Westbrook's also played in like 11 fewer games and he's playing for a 14-16 basketball team. If he had played more of the season and OKC's record were better, I would agree that his performance has been better than Harden's. But the sample size isn't remotely the same and we aren't talking about the same level of team success. Harden's season has been better at this point.

exactly right. In a bubble, give me Westbrook in a slight margin if I am choosing the better player, but these games reward the current season, outside the fan voting starters.

Ariza's Better
12-26-2014, 08:07 PM
Kobe gets a huge international vote as well even
This, in Australia alone it's all Kobe and Lebron. That's why there is a bunch of Heat, cavs and laker fans here.

Chronz
12-27-2014, 03:30 PM
Yeah that's precisely what I mean...

Good to know your standards for him were so low. I was expecting this tremendous difference considering the hype behind his work outs and what not.

Chronz
12-27-2014, 03:39 PM
Worst since his rookie year in what way?
Objective ways. Look at his production by comparison, unless we want to count the year that first had people writing him off. That injury plagued season was worse.


This is his best since the first year of the big 3.
Not based on any objective evidence.


Hard to have a good record when we have a new player out every game.
Its hard for THIS version of Wade, I agree.


I do remember you bashing Wade before the year saying he was done. He's proved you wrong.
I dont know what you're talking about. I was honestly expecting more from Wade, hes proving me wrong for all the wrong reasons. I was expecting much more than this, guess I should have known better.

Chronz
12-27-2014, 03:45 PM
Yeah... I don't see that either. And even if it is one of his worst seasons, he's played at a high level each season. Even his worst season since his rookie year was an All-Star season.
Nobody is contesting his All-Star selections. I was contextualizing his "pretty nice year", and your current "high level" descriptors . We must think differently of Wade if you suggesting hes still an All-Star is high praise. Wade is obviously still an All-Star, thats not saying much. The facts are, this is his least efficient season (on BOTH ends) since his rookie and injury plagued season. Still an All-Star, obviously, but some of us were expecting just a tad more.

*Silver&Black*
12-27-2014, 03:50 PM
A Hawk and Raptor deserves to start. Lowry and Millsap. Harden too.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-27-2014, 03:51 PM
This is the all star team, not all NBA team, if he was voted 1st team all NBA then you have an argument otherwise, you don't. Fact is kobe is still the second biggest draw and star the NBA has right now. He's going to be an all star as voted by the fans because the fans want to see him. Simple. It doesn't matter if you think he should be in the all star game, hundreds of thousands seem to think the opposite. I personally like that he got the nod, but I believe he should give up his spot to cp3 or Westbrook so he can just keep resting.

You cant sit out when voted in unless your injured. I remember long time ago Karl Malone and Shaq and few others didn't want to show up to the the All Star game in Cleveland.

Chronz
12-27-2014, 03:57 PM
Still, better than most predicted.
His production the last couple of years without Bron on the court was much higher than his current output. Granted that was mostly against bench fodder with him getting to coast whenever possible but I remember some Miami fans telling me he had the 3rd or 4th highest PER in his minutes without Bron. Dig up that old thread, I want to see what I expected but I do remember some fans making great points that changed my perception.

I think I had him pegged at 23/5/6 on slightly lower efficiency than last year and it was looked at as a really optimistic take by most on here. But look at it about a third of the way through the year? That's pretty much where he's at. His lateral quickness and explosiveness is down (in part why his D sucks this year), but his 3 ball has never been better. If he was hitting his FTs at his normal % rate (looks like he's at 67.9%... has never shot below 73% for a season), it would actually be a very efficient offensive season. By OBPM he's matching his best since Lebron came over. PER of 23.4. I mean, he's outproducing what most expected.
We're talking about near career worst rates in most of those apbrmetrics. Some of them I expected, especially the defensive rates, but overall, I dont see how you can argue against it being one of his worst seasons. Considering he was suppose to thrive (at least individually) without Bron, the increase in usage doesn't offset the loss in 2-way efficiency. I know PER disagrees, but I have that lower on the totem pole vs ws rates. Particularly with the team struggling to play at a .500 level even with him on the court. Hes basically a .500 player to me.

WaDe03
12-27-2014, 07:10 PM
Objective ways. Look at his production by comparison, unless we want to count the year that first had people writing him off. That injury plagued season was worse.


Not based on any objective evidence.


Its hard for THIS version of Wade, I agree.


I dont know what you're talking about. I was honestly expecting more from Wade, hes proving me wrong for all the wrong reasons. I was expecting much more than this, guess I should have known better.

What? Lol check his stats they are clearly his best in awhile all while shooting at a very high % even from the 3 point line.

Tony_Starks
12-27-2014, 08:20 PM
Yeah that's precisely what I mean...

Good to know your standards for him were so low. I was expecting this tremendous difference considering the hype behind his work outs and what not.

I expected all-star production, I'm seeing allstar production even with through nagging injures and Bosh missing games. If you want to nitpick him with a calculator or do efficiency in a vacuum be my guest pal.....

PurpleLynch
12-27-2014, 08:33 PM
Both Gasol making the All-Star as starters,**** yes. It will be awesome watching them playing against each other again.
I have just mad respect for both.

PurpleLynch
12-27-2014, 08:39 PM
Kobe gets a huge international vote as well even

Yes sir. I think now we just love so much his mental toughness and warrior's spirit.
He has been frustrating sometimes in this season(yeah,he's really stubborn too),but in our romantic eyes he's struggling and fighting as a true warrior against Father Time. And that's just epic.

Sadds The Gr8
12-27-2014, 09:20 PM
It blows my mind that Kobe is getting more votes than Harden. I get that there are a ton of Lakers fans, but you'd think the average number of NBA fans would greatly outnumber Lakers fans and that the average NBA fan would clearly vote for Harden over Kobe this year. I just don't get it...
Your expectations for the knowledege of average nba fans is way too high. Shouldn't be surprising at all

Hawkeye15
12-27-2014, 09:25 PM
I expected all-star production, I'm seeing allstar production even with through nagging injures and Bosh missing games. If you want to nitpick him with a calculator or do efficiency in a vacuum be my guest pal.....

Wade's steep decline started 2 years ago...

Hawkeye15
12-27-2014, 09:26 PM
Yes sir. I think now we just love so much his mental toughness and warrior's spirit.
He has been frustrating sometimes in this season(yeah,he's really stubborn too),but in our romantic eyes he's struggling and fighting as a true warrior against Father Time. And that's just epic.

well, he is in a huge, successful market, and was one of the biggest faces of the NBA for 2 decades almost.

Tony_Starks
12-27-2014, 09:38 PM
I expected all-star production, I'm seeing allstar production even with through nagging injures and Bosh missing games. If you want to nitpick him with a calculator or do efficiency in a vacuum be my guest pal.....

Wade's steep decline started 2 years ago...

This is true but how good are you when even in "decline" you're still better than most sg's in the league?...

goingfor28
12-28-2014, 12:38 AM
Kobe and Melo don't deserve it. Everyone else is legit tho. Lowry should prob be starting over Wade but Wade is having a good year too

Stunner
12-28-2014, 01:36 AM
Jimmy Butler has to start for the East over Wade . I like traditional lineups for all star games , best pg , SG etc .

tredigs
12-28-2014, 08:20 AM
Yes sir. I think now we just love so much his mental toughness and warrior's spirit.
He has been frustrating sometimes in this season(yeah,he's really stubborn too),but in our romantic eyes he's struggling and fighting as a true warrior against Father Time. And that's just epic.

lmao. No, he's just a train wreck, and we want to see what will happen next.

PurpleLynch
12-28-2014, 08:30 AM
lmao. No, he's just a train wreck, and we want to see what will happen next.

Good for you,but your perception of him doesn't change mine. :)
Honestly,I'm just sad for you,your general distaste for Kobe really clouds your judgement on him.
I can understand disliking his attitude or his recent style of play(too stubborn,I agree),but there's no way you can't appreciate the greatness of such a player.
Players like Kobe carved their unique place in the history of the game imo.

ChitownSports16
12-28-2014, 09:51 AM
Wow no Rockets or Raptors starting...

upset about the Raptors part though. Lowry should be in over Wade.

Butler should really be starting over both. But this is just all a fame game.

tredigs
12-28-2014, 11:33 AM
Good for you,but your perception of him doesn't change mine. :)
Honestly,I'm just sad for you,your general distaste for Kobe really clouds your judgement on him.
I can understand disliking his attitude or his recent style of play(too stubborn,I agree),but there's no way you can't appreciate the greatness of such a player.
Players like Kobe carved their unique place in the history of the game imo.
No man, I legitimately have no respect for how he has handled this season and this Lakers team. What you see as "Warrior spirit" as a Kobe fan, I see objectively as a man crushing his teams spirit and potential for his own greed. In all my years as a sports fan (which dates back to the 80's across many sports), it's among (and probably the creme de la creme) most distasteful displays I've seen from a player.

Jamiecballer
12-28-2014, 11:53 AM
Butler should really be starting over both. But this is just all a fame game.

that's definitely up for debate. Lowry and Butler are about as evenly match as possible right now. Both guys are playing amazing.

what puts one above the other in your eyes?

ChitownSports16
12-28-2014, 12:18 PM
that's definitely up for debate. Lowry and Butler are about as evenly match as possible right now. Both guys are playing amazing.

what puts one above the other in your eyes?

Butlers D >>>>> Lowey
His D is just the iceing on the cake.

Shammyguy3
12-28-2014, 03:07 PM
Butlers D >>>>> Lowey
His D is just the iceing on the cake.

Butler's D is definitely a major difference between the two. But, Lowry's ability to run an offense both by scoring at a good efficiency rate on high usage (56.6ts% 121 ORtg 26.4usg%) and playmaking for others (36.7ast% 11.1tov%) counteracts that a ton.

Then, looking at their supporting casts it's no question that Lowry is producing with a fraction of the help that Butler gets (Rose/Dunleavy/Gasol/Noah/Gibson/Mirotic/Brooks vs DeRozan/Ross/Johnson/Johnson/Valanciunas/Vasquez).

Incredibly great production from both, but I think Lowry's doing it with less

PurpleLynch
12-28-2014, 06:33 PM
No man, I legitimately have no respect for how he has handled this season and this Lakers team. What you see as "Warrior spirit" as a Kobe fan, I see objectively as a man crushing his teams spirit and potential for his own greed. In all my years as a sports fan (which dates back to the 80's across many sports), it's among (and probably the creme de la creme) most distasteful displays I've seen from a player.

I agree,he's handling poorly the situation:he has good intentions(he's not greedy man imo,he just doesn't understand that his contribution is doing bad for the team),but his attitude on the court is doing damage to the Lakers this year;unfortunately yes.
They also gave him a huge contract and the primary role again on this team,that along with his stubborness and his declining problems are also factors,no doubt.

BUT,he's still a living legend of this sport. The fact that he got in the AS just because popularity says a lot about his legacy and relevance in the history of the sport.

Miltstar
12-28-2014, 06:37 PM
Butlers D >>>>> Lowey
His D is just the iceing on the cake.

Lowry is pretty solid defensively best in the game at taking charges, gets a lot of key steals.

No knock on Butler but Lowry means more to the Raptors than Butler does to the Bulls

BHF
12-29-2014, 12:54 AM
Butlers D >>>>> Lowey
His D is just the iceing on the cake.

Lowry is a better defender than Butler and has been one of the best defenders in the league for years.

bucketss
12-29-2014, 01:14 AM
well atleast they didn't vote in irving.

Chronz
12-29-2014, 01:18 AM
I expected all-star production, I'm seeing allstar production even with through nagging injures and Bosh missing games. If you want to nitpick him with a calculator or do efficiency in a vacuum be my guest pal.....
Wait so u speak about production and then bash people speaking about his production? And weren't you expecting some injuries with the bigger load? All star production? Is that how far he's fallen? YES, that's why I responded to you in the first place, glad you agree but I expected more


What? Lol check his stats they are clearly his best in awhile all while shooting at a very high % even from the 3 point line.

Check the stats? I have, its why I've said wat I've said

IBleedPurple
12-29-2014, 01:21 AM
Lol, Bean will always make the ASG while he's playing apparently.

still1ballin
12-29-2014, 01:28 AM
It blows my mind that Kobe is getting more votes than Harden. I get that there are a ton of Lakers fans, but you'd think the average number of NBA fans would greatly outnumber Lakers fans and that the average NBA fan would clearly vote for Harden over Kobe this year. I just don't get it...

Kobe Iz Ze gratest bro. That's why

Chavacano
12-29-2014, 05:19 AM
Kobe Iz Ze gratest bro. That's why

^^ Cacaw!

Bigbadmoffo
12-29-2014, 06:49 AM
Butlers D >>>>> Lowey
His D is just the iceing on the cake.

Lowry is carrying a full team of role players to first over all atm. I love my team but nobody without Derozen is even close to an allstar or even great veteran presence. His value is much higher then Butlers.

zn23
12-29-2014, 08:01 AM
I don't care much for the All-star game but I do like to see players get the recognition they deserve for their hard work.

Raptors should be guaranteed 1 spot, considering they hold the best record in the East. I think it would be an absolute travesty if they snub Lowry, who has been playing at a top 5 level the entire year. Even if it's only one spot it should belong to him.

Jimmy Butler also deserves a spot. If the Bulls only get 1 choice, it has to be Butler over Rose. They'll probably get two, so I see him and Pau.

Hawks definitely deserve a player or two.

Sadds The Gr8
12-29-2014, 11:56 AM
Butlers D >>>>> Lowey
His D is just the iceing on the cake.

Butler has been awesome but sorry, Lowry's playmaking and winning more with less talent is the icing on the cake. Butler has loads of all-stars and talent around him. He's definitely an all-star but Lowry should start. This is moot since neither will and Wade (least deserving of the 3) will start.

efrost6
12-30-2014, 02:25 AM
Butler should get serious consideration to start. But it's a popularity contest, and Butler's just isn't sexy enough. Maybe in another year or so, he'll get the name recognition to garnish the needed vote.

canefandynasty
12-30-2014, 12:45 PM
Wade has just been as good as Butler this season. Wade is the better offensive player while Butler the better defensive player. Wade also has a higher PER by a margin.

mngopher35
12-30-2014, 01:51 PM
Wade has just been as good as Butler this season. Wade is the better offensive player while Butler the better defensive player. Wade also has a higher PER by a margin.

Per isn't the only stat to look at. Wade has a higher usage which props his per up and butler is right there anyways.

Butler has been way more efficient with his opportunities as shown by a much higher ortg (and also higher ts%). Butler also has double the ws and vorp. Even if we say wade has a slight edge on the offensive side (where I would disagree) butler has been far better on defense this year. Wade has been pretty poor on that end while butler has been his normal self. Butler has most definitely been better than wade this season.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-30-2014, 03:51 PM
So how does the coaches vote in the bench players? They go by wins first or stats or what? Or they just look at fan votes and go from there? Coaches personal favorites?

Kaner
12-30-2014, 04:04 PM
Wade has just been as good as Butler this season. Wade is the better offensive player while Butler the better defensive player. Wade also has a higher PER by a margin.

Lol at by a wide margin, 2 pts or roughly 10% better. A wide margin is Butler's ws and ws/48 advantage over Wade nearly 3x as many ws and double the ws/48... Lame to try to compare their offense and defense and then just call it a wash, Butler is a immensely better defender then Wade right now 1 is a liability and the other is elite. On the otherhand Wade and Butler are close offensively, only significant advantage for Wade is his passing.

Edit: Didn't see Mngopher's post

BIG worm
12-30-2014, 04:34 PM
Wade has just been as good as Butler this season. Wade is the better offensive player while Butler the better defensive player. Wade also has a higher PER by a margin.

Jimmy has been better by a wide margin

Stunner
12-30-2014, 06:08 PM
@ChuckGarfien: Lost in Jimmy Butler's incredible season: He's committed only 41 turnovers playing the most minutes in NBA. LeBron James has 111.

cahawk
12-31-2014, 01:25 PM
No man, I legitimately have no respect for how he has handled this season and this Lakers team. What you see as "Warrior spirit" as a Kobe fan, I see objectively as a man crushing his teams spirit and potential for his own greed. In all my years as a sports fan (which dates back to the 80's across many sports), it's among (and probably the creme de la creme) most distasteful displays I've seen from a player.
Tredigs, this is what I have seen, also. But kobe fans are more like a cult, than BB or laker fans.

PurpleLynch
12-31-2014, 01:30 PM
Tredigs, this is what I have seen, also. But kobe fans are more like a cult, than BB or laker fans.

A cult? :laugh: Well,I already wrote that I'm not liking Kobe this season,but I really admire his will to play and his pride. Just that. And yes,Kobe is one of my favourite player of all time,but that doesn't mean that I'm in a "cult"(Kobe's dickrider is just more funny anyway).

jerellh528
12-31-2014, 02:14 PM
There's no such thing as objective when it comes to kobe. You either love him or hate him, so stop pretending to come around here and say stuff as an "objective pov". As bad as you claim the kobe philes are, the kobe haters are just as bad or worse. I haven't read anything hateful by anyone except all the repeat offenders.

Chronz
12-31-2014, 02:53 PM
There's no such thing as objective when it comes to kobe. You either love him or hate him, so stop pretending to come around here and say stuff as an "objective pov". As bad as you claim the kobe philes are, the kobe haters are just as bad or worse. I haven't read anything hateful by anyone except all the repeat offenders.

Based on wat tho? Why not quote the person you're trying to call out? This post reeks of subjectivity.