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bleedprple&gold
12-22-2014, 11:48 PM
These are some pretty shocking numbers:


Through 27 games, the Lakers' net rating -- the difference between offensive and defensive rating - with Bryant on the court is minus-13.3 points per 100 possessions. When he's on the bench, it's a whole different story: The Lakers' net rating is plus-11.1 points per 100 possessions.

The Lakers own a 109.4 offensive rating without Bryant, which, if maintained, would be fourth in the league (behind only Dallas, the Toronto Raptors and Los Angeles Clippers). The Lakers' defensive rating of 98.3 without Kobe would be third in the league if maintained (behind only Golden State and the Houston Rockets). http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/12069193/los-angeles-lakers-coach-byron-scott-formulating-plan-limit-guard-kobe-bryant-minutes-workload

Without Kobe we might actually be a playoff team. $48.5M well spent. I love Kobe but he just doesn't have it anymore. But I suppose he's doing great if we want to tank.

Crunch Time
12-23-2014, 12:09 AM
as long as he doesn't **** with the tank, i couldn't care less

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-23-2014, 01:06 AM
lol

ldawg
12-23-2014, 01:34 AM
I dont care now its to late damage already done so Just keep the tank rolling. Have the kobe show sell the drama. They should have a few fake locker room fights or something to spice it up WWF style. As long as we get that pick i good.:shush: Some of us saw this coming and some us us are lagging behind Mostly Kobe fans. I knew Lakers had no room for error meaning injuries. Kobe is done as a number 1 option. Pau was trying to tell us guys but fans were to busy blaming Fisher, Howard, Mike 1 and 2, Artest and now Boozer, Lin Johnson. Its everyone else fault. Kobe great strengths is also his weakness. I dont think he should change one thing this year maybe next but not this year. Keep the tank rolling baby. :layup:

jaydubb
12-23-2014, 01:34 AM
Kobe driving the tank?

Iron24th
12-23-2014, 02:06 AM
Yep driving the tank properly is all we got now.

Big Moves03
12-23-2014, 02:06 AM
These are some pretty shocking numbers:



Without Kobe we might actually be a playoff team. $48.5M well spent. I love Kobe but he just doesn't have it anymore. But I suppose he's doing great if we want to tank.

You can't seriously believe that this team might be a playoff team without Kobe. Lol

bleedprple&gold
12-23-2014, 03:46 AM
You can't seriously believe that this team might be a playoff team without Kobe. Lol

I wouldn't think so but the numbers don't lie - 4th in offense, 3rd in defense, that's a playoff team.

LAKERS4LIFE!!
12-23-2014, 03:57 AM
I wouldn't think so but the numbers don't lie - 4th in offense, 3rd in defense, that's a playoff team.

This is a case where the numbers don't tell the whole truth. Just like Kobe's 25/5/5 sounds amazing, it really isn't. I agree the Lakers might be better without Kobe but I promise you there's no way the Lakers are in the playoffs if Kobe was off the team. Lakers would probably have like 3-5 more wins though.

Anyways the Lakers as of right now have the 5th worst record as of right now :D Kobe we need more losses!

jerellh528
12-23-2014, 05:04 AM
They wouldn't be a playoff team. Kobe averages the 15th most minutes per game in the NBA, so he's of the court for what, 12 mins a game? Too smAll a sample size to say we would have fourth best offense and third best defense or whatever it was haha and honestly this team is worse without kobe. I don't see how anyone would think otherwise. Kobe takes pressure off everyone, there's a difference between stepping it up for the 10 mins kobe is on the bench, and grinding out a whole season without him. If this was the case, last year when kobe was out for the season we should've been good, but we still sucked, and with a much better roster than we have now.

SenileStern
12-23-2014, 09:02 AM
Why do we even have so many wins and close games with this roster and Kobe tanking? What kind of roster do we need to have in order to really suck?

Vinylman
12-23-2014, 09:50 AM
I wouldn't think so but the numbers don't lie - 4th in offense, 3rd in defense, that's a playoff team.

no it isn't... that stat doesn't factor in volume... all you have to do is look at how long kobe is on the bench... and when he is on the bench most of the starters on the other team are on the bench...

you are looking at a stat that covers 25% of a game... context my friend... context...

now as for KB24's **** play... I am all for bashing him... but to think this is a playoff team based off of that stat just isn't the case

rhd420
12-23-2014, 01:51 PM
I dont care now its to late damage already done so Just keep the tank rolling. Have the kobe show sell the drama. They should have a few fake locker room fights or something to spice it up WWF style. As long as we get that pick i good.:shush: Some of us saw this coming and some us us are lagging behind Mostly Kobe fans. I knew Lakers had no room for error meaning injuries. Kobe is done as a number 1 option. Pau was trying to tell us guys but fans were to busy blaming Fisher, Howard, Mike 1 and 2, Artest and now Boozer, Lin Johnson. Its everyone else fault. Kobe great strengths is also his weakness. I dont think he should change one thing this year maybe next but not this year. Keep the tank rolling baby. :layup:

See VM - it's not the time to rebuild at this point

I agree, Kobe is not going to be the building block for a complete rebuild - actually I'm with you on this, it will hinder key free agents from coming here to be fair - hey let's go on the team that has ONE guy volume shoot all the time and then everybody else gets the blame (ask Pau Gasol)

Really time to get over it - fans would rather have a Kobe Bryant team vs a Utah Jazz or even Memphis Grizzlies team at this point

championships
12-23-2014, 03:22 PM
The old man doesn't know he's old. Typical top athlete syndrome. The team is crap either way. I highly doubt this is a playoff team.

cgreenhill
12-23-2014, 04:47 PM
The Lakers are not bad because of Kobe. Anyone that thinks that hasn't taken a look at the roster in a few years. This season is all about tanking, getting the best rookie they can next year, and trying to sign some talent in the off season. I think Kobe should be able to shot every time he touches the ball this season. Part of me would like to see him traded to a team like Charlotte. That would be better for everyone involved including the NBA.

Gene2420
12-23-2014, 05:09 PM
Biostatistician here. What a fun way to twist numbers. I can already see that it's not representative observing that he's averaging 35.4 mpg, which is 73% vs the 26% bench time. Or 26% floor time without Kobe. So for at least 12.6 mpg on average, the Lakers do better on the floor? It's not that valid. What if they were to play the whole game without Kobe....I doubt those efficiency ratings would be as inflated. People are quick to cause and effect...

bleedprple&gold
12-23-2014, 05:28 PM
Biostatistician here. What a fun way to twist numbers. I can already see that it's not representative observing that he's averaging 35.4 mpg, which is 73% vs the 26% bench time. Or 26% floor time without Kobe. So for at least 12.6 mpg on average, the Lakers do better on the floor? It's not that valid. What if they were to play the whole game without Kobe....I doubt those efficiency ratings would be as inflated. People are quick to cause and effect...

Yes, I'm sure the efficiency ratings wouldn't be as inflated for a whole game, but as a biostatician I'm sure you are very familiar with extrapolation, so if you extrapolate these numbers for a whole game they are only going to go down so much, so the numbers have relevance. Nevertheless, the numbers are still very telling about the negative impact Kobe is having when he is in the game.

bleedprple&gold
12-23-2014, 05:30 PM
no it isn't... that stat doesn't factor in volume... all you have to do is look at how long kobe is on the bench... and when he is on the bench most of the starters on the other team are on the bench...

you are looking at a stat that covers 25% of a game... context my friend... context...

now as for KB24's **** play... I am all for bashing him... but to think this is a playoff team based off of that stat just isn't the case

I was half-joking about being a playoff team, but it's still very clear the team has been much better without Kobe, and would be closer to a playoff team.

Gene2420
12-23-2014, 06:14 PM
Yes, but you don't just extrapolate by just looking at descriptives (And especially not with that sample size). By the way, I wouldn't trust this article.

"The Lakers own a 109.4 offensive rating without Bryant, which, if maintained, would be fourth in the league (behind only Dallas, the Toronto Raptors and Los Angeles Clippers). The Lakers' defensive rating of 98.3 without Kobe would be third in the league if maintained (behind only Golden State and the Houston Rockets)."

The guy who wrote this made an error...he's comparing Offensive/Defensive Rating's to Hollinger's Offensive/Defensive Efficiency...2 completely different statistics. If this were the case and we're JUST looking at Offensive and Defensive Ratings sourcing from Basketball-Reference.com....

With Kobe On Floor
- Offensive Rating (Average): 109.45
- Defensive Rating (Average): 113.73

Without Kobe on Floor
- Offensive Rating (Average): 110.70
- Defensive Rating (Average): 113.70

Not much of a difference if you ask me. You can play around with descriptives with anyone and twist it. That's why they're descriptives and not inferential.

numba1CHANGsta
12-23-2014, 06:31 PM
With or without Kobe we still wouldnt win the championship, just let Kobe drive the tank so we can keep our pick and worry about him hurting the team next season

Crunch Time
12-23-2014, 07:46 PM
Mathematician here...**** stats.

LakerSemper
12-23-2014, 10:13 PM
Funny thing is that Kobe's always been like this. I've been saying it ll long. He scores alot but shoots alot. Hecost us that Detroit finals. Without Phil he wouldn't have won sheet. I'll say it again HE HAS A VERY LOW BB IQ

championships
12-23-2014, 11:04 PM
We're watching a NBA Superstars career come to an end. His legs just aren't there for him anymore, He's coming off of an Achilles injury, and He's an old man.

What better time than now for the Vultures to swoop down and peck at Kobe while he's dieing?

LakerSemper
12-23-2014, 11:25 PM
Kobe's always been like this, it's just that the chickens are coming home to roost

DODGERS&LAKERS
12-24-2014, 12:15 AM
Kobe's always been like this, it's just that the chickens are coming home to roost

He has NEVER been this bad. Are you inferring that he has always liked to shoot when you say "always been like this"? He has always liked to shoot, but he used to be efficient at it.

LakerSemper
12-24-2014, 12:23 AM
What I'm saying is that his ego gets the best of him and throughout his career he's been selfish and has let his ego get in the way of Laker success. Throughout his career this issue has come up, even during the Phil years. Kobe's just lucky to have had Phil reign him in somewhat

DODGERS&LAKERS
12-24-2014, 12:33 AM
What I'm saying is that his ego gets the best of him and throughout his career he's been selfish and has let his ego get in the way of Laker success. Throughout his career this issue has come up, even during the Phil years. Kobe's just lucky to have had Phil reign him in somewhat

:confused: :faint:

5 Titles is not successful? How good a roster do you think the Lakers have had? Kobe plays a certain way that is not peoples cup of tea. But he has had the same success as Magic and Duncan who are considered great teammates.

Do you think Kobe is a better passer than Magic? I don't. Why do you think Kobe would have had more success than Magic doing something he is inferior at. You see Kobe becomes a turnover machine when he gets in facilitator mode right?

I never understand people saying Kobe could have been successful if he was less selfish. People must think he is better than Jordan to think he should have 7 to 8 rings.

bleedprple&gold
12-24-2014, 04:26 AM
We're watching a NBA Superstars career come to an end. His legs just aren't there for him anymore, He's coming off of an Achilles injury, and He's an old man.

What better time than now for the Vultures to swoop down and peck at Kobe while he's dieing?

It's fine and understandable that at his age, the injuries he's had, and all the minutes he's played that it was inevitable that he would start to decline. The problem is he's not adjusting his game. He's still putting up shots like he thinks he's 25 and trying to carry the offensive load when he has no business doing that anymore. I think part of the problem is with that contract he signed and getting paid so much he feels its his obligation to play like a number 1 option and shoulder the offensive load, so I understand that and the FO deserves a lot of the blame too for giving him that much money that he feels he still needs to carry the team. Another reason why that contract has been so awful.

bleedprple&gold
12-24-2014, 04:35 AM
no it isn't... that stat doesn't factor in volume... all you have to do is look at how long kobe is on the bench... and when he is on the bench most of the starters on the other team are on the bench...

you are looking at a stat that covers 25% of a game... context my friend... context...

now as for KB24's **** play... I am all for bashing him... but to think this is a playoff team based off of that stat just isn't the case

Well the Lakers sure didn't do anything tonight to disprove my claim that they might be a playoff team without Kobe.

b-ballistic
12-24-2014, 07:31 AM
:laugh:

Chavacano
12-24-2014, 09:50 AM
I wouldn't think so but the numbers don't lie - 4th in offense, 3rd in defense, that's a playoff team.

^^ Not just a playoff team, a contender.


no it isn't... that stat doesn't factor in volume... all you have to do is look at how long kobe is on the bench... and when he is on the bench most of the starters on the other team are on the bench...

you are looking at a stat that covers 25% of a game... context my friend... context...

now as for KB24's **** play... I am all for bashing him... but to think this is a playoff team based off of that stat just isn't the case

^^ And this.


Funny thing is that Kobe's always been like this. I've been saying it ll long. He scores alot but shoots alot. Hecost us that Detroit finals. Without Phil he wouldn't have won sheet. I'll say it again HE HAS A VERY LOW BB IQ

^^ Such salt.

EXTRAWON
12-24-2014, 05:25 PM
We're just witnessing the manifestation of "the blessing and the curse" being one and the same. For Kobe to have become the great that he is, he had to have a dogged determination, matched by very few in history. To be the kind of shot maker Kobe is, he has to be crazy.:crazy: Crazy enough that he truly believes that he can make any shot. He's accomplished the "impossible". His thought process makes it difficult for him to acknowledge his declining abilities.

For several years now, I've longed for Kobe to adjust his game. If he'd embrace taking on the role of a "stat stuffer" instead of a prolific scorer the Lakers would have been more competitive the last few seasons. If he'd only allow the team to play with him, the way they play without him, they would win more games this season. Not enough to make the playoffs though. Soooo.......

Since having a poor enough record to pick in the top 5 is the best scenario for this season, here's to hoping that Kobe doesn't adjust his game until NEXT year.:cheers:

Chuck away Mamba!!!!!:up:

lakersfan01
12-24-2014, 07:14 PM
Kobe needs to retire

Big Moves03
12-25-2014, 04:55 AM
Funny thing is that Kobe's always been like this. I've been saying it ll long. He scores alot but shoots alot. Hecost us that Detroit finals. Without Phil he wouldn't have won sheet. I'll say it again HE HAS A VERY LOW BB IQ

Funny thing is, you obviously don't know how to read basic descriptive statistics. You know, the part about him shooting 45% for his career, which is solid for anyone, but excellent for a permitter player that is volume shooter and that has been playing for as long as kobe. So he obviously hasn't been missing like this for his entire career or anywhere close to it. We all know you've hated on kobe for a long time, but the fact is we would have 5 less championships without him. He's top 5 all time, it's time to deal with it.

Big Moves03
12-25-2014, 05:05 AM
What I'm saying is that his ego gets the best of him and throughout his career he's been selfish and has let his ego get in the way of Laker success. Throughout his career this issue has come up, even during the Phil years. Kobe's just lucky to have had Phil reign him in somewhat

There would be no laker success since 88 without kobe. Phil was just as lucky to have kobe, you know the guy that's the greatest player of this generation, and a bunch of other generations. Very few players have won 5 championships in any sport, let alone being a top 2-3 player for most/all of them. Even Duncan, who also has 5 doesn't have that accomplishment. Stop hating on Kobe and be grateful that you were able to see one of the greatest, most skilled athletes in the history of sports.

ldawg
12-25-2014, 08:10 AM
What Kobe did 8 years ago has nothing to do with what he has to do now. Kobe is vested and Nothing is wrong with the old guy who has put in alot of time and has made you billions and made your business successful but at the same token that old guy cant become a anchor got to evolve.

LakerSemper
12-25-2014, 10:36 AM
There would be no laker success since 88 without kobe. Phil was just as lucky to have kobe, you know the guy that's the greatest player of this generation, and a bunch of other generations. Very few players have won 5 championships in any sport, let alone being a top 2-3 player for most/all of them. Even Duncan, who also has 5 doesn't have that accomplishment. Stop hating on Kobe and be grateful that you were able to see one of the greatest, most skilled athletes in the history of sports.

With Phil at the helm during those years we would have won (and possibly easier), period, whether it was Kobe or any decent shooter. Kobe's shot selection has mostly been poor and he's been most interested in doing the hero-ball thing. Skills he has, it's just that he bought into the hype that the league has built around him. Of course the league always hypes things up, it's a business after all and their job is to sell stuff.

royal bob
12-25-2014, 03:30 PM
With Phil at the helm during those years we would have won (and possibly easier), period, whether it was Kobe or any decent shooter. Kobe's shot selection has mostly been poor and he's been most interested in doing the hero-ball thing. Skills he has, it's just that he bought into the hype that the league has built around him. Of course the league always hypes things up, it's a business after all and their job is to sell stuff.

How is Phil Jackson's incredible, amazing, genius, basketball wizardry working out for the Knicks? There is much more involved than a magic wand. How many championships would Phil have if he didnt have Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant? Before you rub a hole in your head scratching it, the answer is ZERO.

Kobe has some work to do, for sure. His legs arent where they need to be to get the lift he needs to hit shots he used to....due in part to the injuries and to the aging process. In all probability, he wont get it back....most assuredly not just from taking one game off. The Lakers have a decent team as we saw in the Golden State game, but Kobe more or less destroys any effort to mature the roster into a unit, because it has to be the Kobe show. Until he realizes this, the Lakers will struggle....which is why most of us maintain that any rebuild has to wait until Kobe retires. He cant come back at a huge discount like I've seen some here suggest. He has to be gone for the Lakers to move forward.....and nobody can speed up this process with a trade or a tank.

mufridaz
12-25-2014, 07:26 PM
How is Phil Jackson's incredible, amazing, genius, basketball wizardry working out for the Knicks? There is much more involved than a magic wand. How many championships would Phil have if he didnt have Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant? Before you rub a hole in your head scratching it, the answer is ZERO.

Kobe has some work to do, for sure. His legs arent where they need to be to get the lift he needs to hit shots he used to....due in part to the injuries and to the aging process. In all probability, he wont get it back....most assuredly not just from taking one game off. The Lakers have a decent team as we saw in the Golden State game, but Kobe more or less destroys any effort to mature the roster into a unit, because it has to be the Kobe show. Until he realizes this, the Lakers will struggle....which is why most of us maintain that any rebuild has to wait until Kobe retires. He cant come back at a huge discount like I've seen some here suggest. He has to be gone for the Lakers to move forward.....and nobody can speed up this process with a trade or a tank.

@Royal bob I have never done a personal attack against you or anyone else on this forum. We offer opinions and we all share the common goal of winning championships. In the thread to tank to not to tank the last post by you personally attacked me. You said just in part that if you advocate loosing this year your a loser.

And that I do not know how to build a championship team and need to sit down and shut up. Well before the cba we could just buy whoever we wanted now with repeater tax even the most profitable teams which includes LA can't afford to do that anymore. With kobe's huge contract, with no future assets still owe picks for nash d12 disasters, and with not enough cap space to just buy 2 star players next year it is important to make sure we keep that top 5 pick this year.

Either you tank one year and do full rebuild next year or the team is going to be bad for several more years have no future assets and be left in no mans land again not good enough to win not bad enough to get top draft picks.

I hope the moderators take a look at the personal attack you did against me and take appropriate action since the thread was closed before I had a chance to reply I'm taking the opportunity to do so now.

Just b/c people say to tank this year doesn't make them loser's. Is magic a loser? He said loose every game.

Some people are still in fantasy land. If your a rebuilding team like we are you rebuild through the draft. If your a bad team you sell assets to get picks to improve. Those picks can later be turned into star players via trade so not necessarily totally rebuilding through the draft.

But I think we should get another 2 very good young players for the future ie okafur exum and then get potential all star vets that are still young ie Bledsoe stepheson. Still have a chance next year and still rebuilding for future.

Merry Christmas I guess I know who got coal from santa this a

mufridaz
12-25-2014, 07:55 PM
the tank doesn't really matter b/c we're trying to tank but yet we're not bad enough to keep it. at like around 10th worst and with the bad teams trading players of value for future picks the bad teams get worse so if we stay the course we're not even close. And we might not only loose that top 5 but also loose the 2nd round top 40 protected.

And even if we keep our pick this year we loose it next year to phoenix. with no assets no future picks no team is trading a star here. and without basic infrastructure of a competitive team no star free agents would come here either in 2016 or next year. which would be another aweful year with no picks or top prospects to show for our horrid play.

they do a study in kids they say you can eat one marshmellow now or wait a few minutes and get 2 marshmellows. the smart kids wait to get 2. same thing in basketball are you the impatient kid that wants to win now no matter the cost to future years or wait a year and be great again and have championship aspirations for many years to come with near star players now and young studs for future years.

before we had stars here and every year we could get veterans to come for huge discounts. we no longer have stars we have one aging one in kobe and not enough cap to get 2 more stars.

as far as phil what makes him great is his ability to get the most out of his players its more mental than physical. he challenges them he finds a way to bring great stars with huge egos to work together. that's what makes phil a great coach.

this year he has mostly 1 year players that will be gone next year and learning the triangle for those players that will not be here or in contract years is not what they want. they want inflated numbers so they can get a huge contract and its hard to be a pass first team player if your just trying to get yours.

this team is a disaster and mainly management's fault. how we get out of this hole of mediocrity and awefulness can be debated. but we all share the common goal of helping the team get back into the contender conversation.

I do agree a full rebuild can't be done until kobe's gone that's why in my opinion if we're not going to do a full tank full rebuild now at least do a partial rebuild for future assets/young players/picks so that when kobe is gone we are not in the situation we are now which is terrible and owe all our future picks to other teams and have nothing to show for it. The point of the draft is to improve the team to get young players who are the next stars but if your bad and owe your picks to other teams you can't improve but only through free agency and trades and without picks/young players and without talent already on the roster your not going to trade. so that only leaves free agency and again no star player is coming here without some pieces already here in place. we basically have kobe and juliius randle and a bunch of expiring, one year, hodge podge of scrubs and has beens and never was's.

we have j.hill, lin, Kelly, Clarkson, ed davis, swaggy p that could be of value to other teams. would you rather loose them for nothing or get something of value in return? would you rather sell high like with j.hill or sell low or let them walk for nothing like we did with odom/pau/d12/nash/and will with kobe? j.hill will probally get hurt soon and then be worth nothing so come jan 19 I hope he's traded.

as bad and as bleak as our situation is now; its possible to turn it around with a few smart moves. but continue to make poor management decisions and we will be bad for many years to come. if we're just banking on getting Durant in 2016 with no infrastructure in place no pieces to even moderately compete no star is coming here.

as for kobe hurting the team yes he is. he should be sitting more resting trusting teammates more, never shoot more than 15 shots a game unless he's 75% shooting percentage. 3-15, 9 turnovers, etc etc are unexcusable. if you can't shoot drive to the rim make layups shoot free throws. never ever should kobe be shooting 3's. he's not a 3 point shooter. never has been never will be. trust the teammates if they fail its on them. as it is now kobe is a 36 year old ball hog who will continue shooting no matter what even if it takes him 30 shots to get 25 points.

with management instead of price and boozer we should have Clarkson and maybe other guys from dleague called up to see what they can do. no point in playing veterans when we could have youth and young prospects gain some experience and see what they have.

phil actually would tell kobe hey your sucking stop shooting sit your butt down. no other coach has had the guts or gonads to tell kobe he was ever doing anything wrong or to sit down after a series of bad plays.

royal bob
12-26-2014, 12:46 AM
@Royal bob I have never done a personal attack against you or anyone else on this forum. We offer opinions and we all share the common goal of winning championships. In the thread to tank to not to tank the last post by you personally attacked me. You said just in part that if you advocate loosing this year your a loser.

And that I do not know how to build a championship team and need to sit down and shut up. Well before the cba we could just buy whoever we wanted now with repeater tax even the most profitable teams which includes LA can't afford to do that anymore. With kobe's huge contract, with no future assets still owe picks for nash d12 disasters, and with not enough cap space to just buy 2 star players next year it is important to make sure we keep that top 5 pick this year.

Either you tank one year and do full rebuild next year or the team is going to be bad for several more years have no future assets and be left in no mans land again not good enough to win not bad enough to get top draft picks.

I hope the moderators take a look at the personal attack you did against me and take appropriate action since the thread was closed before I had a chance to reply I'm taking the opportunity to do so now.

Just b/c people say to tank this year doesn't make them loser's. Is magic a loser? He said loose every game.

Some people are still in fantasy land. If your a rebuilding team like we are you rebuild through the draft. If your a bad team you sell assets to get picks to improve. Those picks can later be turned into star players via trade so not necessarily totally rebuilding through the draft.

But I think we should get another 2 very good young players for the future ie okafur exum and then get potential all star vets that are still young ie Bledsoe stepheson. Still have a chance next year and still rebuilding for future.

Merry Christmas I guess I know who got coal from santa this a

Had I intended to attack you personally, I would have pointed that out in my post.

There are two major trains of thought going on in the forum right now. One that wants to lose every game so that the Lakers would qualify to keep its first round draft pick this season, and one that will never entertain thoughts of losing on purpose who will wait until Kobe hangs up the sneakers and a real rebuild can take place.

My stance is that we allow Kobe to take his swansong, as he has earned it....get the points he can get, then step aside to allow the Lakers to move on to the next era of great Lakers basketball. Keeping our first round pick this season would be pointless for a couple of reasons. One is that there really isnt a franchise type of guy who is going to be available in this draft, and the other is that Kobe will not allow the focus of the team to be anywhere but on him. As it turns out, there are two kids in high school this year who look to have exceptional talent....who will play their Freshman seasons in college next year. A kobe led team next season wont be any better than than this years team, and when we really do get our first next year.....it will come in a deeper draft.....and Kobe will be leaving.

I really dont like writing a book, but my telepathic powers dont seem to be working.....and it has proven to cause a bit of confusion in the threads. If you believe that losing is the answer....I'm not down with that. Players arent down with that, either. Free agents know when a team loses on purpose, and arent very quick to accept employment where losing is encouraged as a matter of team policy. Trying hard and losing anyway is correctable....and players can see that as well. I hate to hear Lakers fans clamoring for the team to lose on purpose, and it pisses me off that Magic would even approve that....let alone suggest it as a course of action.

I hated the Steve Nash deal from the jump. We paid too much, and gave up too much of our future for a player who had none. I dont like the Suns, but saw them play enough to know that Nash had a health problem that was serious even then....not to mention that he was older than dirt.

I hated the Dwight Howard deal from the start as well. Howard repeatedly said he didnt want to play for the Lakers a year before he came here....even rescinded his trade demands when he learned that the Lakers wanted him. Why did it shock people when he left for Houston? We never had a snowball's chance in hell of re-signing him.

These two occurrences is why I dont fully trust Mitch and Jim to do this the right way...although I do think Mitch has a few of the rebuild ingredients already assembled. I dont believe in making a two year run, then starting over again. I believe in establishing a young core of talent, then adding a piece or two in free agency to keep us below the tax level.

My comments were not directed at you. I was addressing the general consensus that the Lakers toss it in the crapper and make believe they are the Sixers. Beating the Warriors without Kobe was awesome. It was worthy of any Lakers fans respect and admiration. The players on the floor played their guts out and deserve praise for it....not criticized for doing the jobs they were hired to do.

Manny1613
12-26-2014, 01:04 AM
Where's all the Kobe haters now? The team lost by 20 to the Bulls and everyone played like crap. Where's all the statistics about how they play better without Kobe? How about Driving Miss Daisy with Nick Young who shot terrible in this game and plays just like Kobe by jacking up shots? What Lin and Boozer talking about sharing the ball? The team is filled with losers. Kobe is the only one with the reputation of a champion and gets bashed by fans. He should shoot 50 times a game and miss 35...not for the tank but because his teammates suck at life. The season is **** and I would rather watch Kobe shoot then some loser like Lin, Boozer, or overrated Jordan Hill.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-26-2014, 05:18 AM
Where's all the Kobe haters now? The team lost by 20 to the Bulls and everyone played like crap. Where's all the statistics about how they play better without Kobe? How about Driving Miss Daisy with Nick Young who shot terrible in this game and plays just like Kobe by jacking up shots? What Lin and Boozer talking about sharing the ball? The team is filled with losers. Kobe is the only one with the reputation of a champion and gets bashed by fans. He should shoot 50 times a game and miss 35...not for the tank but because his teammates suck at life. The season is **** and I would rather watch Kobe shoot then some loser like Lin, Boozer, or overrated Jordan Hill.

a fluke

They're gonna beat Mavs by 20

Kashmir13579
12-26-2014, 05:34 AM
Where's all the Kobe haters now? The team lost by 20 to the Bulls and everyone played like crap. Where's all the statistics about how they play better without Kobe? How about Driving Miss Daisy with Nick Young who shot terrible in this game and plays just like Kobe by jacking up shots? What Lin and Boozer talking about sharing the ball? The team is filled with losers. Kobe is the only one with the reputation of a champion and gets bashed by fans. He should shoot 50 times a game and miss 35...not for the tank but because his teammates suck at life. The season is **** and I would rather watch Kobe shoot then some loser like Lin, Boozer, or overrated Jordan Hill. it was a competitive game

Crunch Time
12-26-2014, 07:59 AM
encouraging loss

Big Moves03
01-05-2015, 01:18 AM
Yeah, he's gonna cost us a top 5 pick if he keeps playing like this.

jaydubb
01-05-2015, 05:30 AM
**** Kobe

rhd420
01-05-2015, 02:52 PM
How is Phil Jackson's incredible, amazing, genius, basketball wizardry working out for the Knicks? There is much more involved than a magic wand. How many championships would Phil have if he didnt have Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant? Before you rub a hole in your head scratching it, the answer is ZERO.

Kobe has some work to do, for sure. His legs arent where they need to be to get the lift he needs to hit shots he used to....due in part to the injuries and to the aging process. In all probability, he wont get it back....most assuredly not just from taking one game off. The Lakers have a decent team as we saw in the Golden State game, but Kobe more or less destroys any effort to mature the roster into a unit, because it has to be the Kobe show. Until he realizes this, the Lakers will struggle....which is why most of us maintain that any rebuild has to wait until Kobe retires. He cant come back at a huge discount like I've seen some here suggest. He has to be gone for the Lakers to move forward.....and nobody can speed up this process with a trade or a tank.

1st Happy New Year

actually went to the game, and man ... no matter how he plays most of the seasons, most fans buy in
Kobe being Kobe AGAIN

AND yes totally agree with this Bob on this, there can't be a rebuild till AFTER Kobe retires and yet time and time again, fans clamor for a "discount" or "adjustment in his game", you would think after a certain amount of seasons - this isn't going to happen and yet there is still "hope"

Games like last night just proves how much Kobe IS the team, perception of him constantly hitting game winners, just like Jordan but even Jordan had his fair share of misses but perception is everything. Don't know if rumors are true that he his thinking retiring next season - well at least it was a good game and have to question - would the Lakers be a playoff team in the East? LOL

Hangin n Wangin
01-06-2015, 01:04 PM
What do you guys think Kobe's shooting percentage will be at the end of the year? Right now it's at an abysmal 38%, but he has been playing a lot better of late. The problem is he would have to keep playing really well, and even then, it would go up really slowly. My guess is that it's going to be pretty hard for him to get over 40%.

jaydubb
01-06-2015, 03:01 PM
James harden got his fg% over 40% and his was worse then Kobe's for like the first month of the season. I think kobe gets it over 40% especially if he keeps playing the way he's been playing the last week.

I think he will finish right at 40%

Hangin n Wangin
01-07-2015, 12:46 AM
^^^ sounds reasonable