PDA

View Full Version : Should kobe retire?



cahawk
12-20-2014, 02:45 AM
As a Laker fan but not a kobe fan, I would like to see the Lakers move on & rebuild.
Can't help but think what the Lakers could do with $25 Million this year & next.
And his fans will disagree but Lakers are probably better with kobe on bench.
Tonight Lakers lost to OKC (without Durant) by 1 pt with kobe missing all 4 shots at end, including the last shot that would have won the game. kobe was 3/15 & 0/3 from 3.
If this was just one game I could understand, but 37% fgs & 27% 3's for year.....

Before fans blame his bad teammates note the other starter shot 59% & bench over 50%.
Am I the only one thinking this is hurting Lakers & hurting kobe's legacy?

kobe4thewinbang
12-20-2014, 02:53 AM
As a Laker fan but not a kobe fan, I would like to see the Lakers move on & rebuild.
Can't help but think what the Lakers could do with $25 Million this year & next.
And his fans will disagree but Lakers are probably better with kobe on bench.
Tonight Lakers lost to OKC (without Durant) by 1 pt with kobe missing all 4 shots at end, including the last shot that would have won the game. kobe was 3/15 & 0/3 from 3.
If this was just one game I could understand, but 37% fgs & 27% 3's for year.....

Before fans blame his bad teammates note the other starter shot 59% & bench over 50%.
Am I the only one thinking this is hurting Lakers & hurting kobe's legacy?:facepalm: /thread

nastynice
12-20-2014, 03:14 AM
I really like Kobe, but I noticed the same thing too. Lin was really playing good in the 4th, and when Kobe came back in at first Lin was still playing good, because he was running the offense and making the right play. But then Kobe started wanting the ball on the block, and it completely killed what the Lakers had going for them. It was tough to watch, he's such a legend, one of the best to ever play, but man, he hurt his team BIG TIME.

Its not even just about the ugly shooting %, its like rather than allowing the team to play on and keep running what was working, he just completely changed the complexion of that offense by calling for the ball and having the offense run through him instead. He needs to also play and move around without the ball, if he let's the ball go through Lin and let Lin read the defense and make a play, they'd be better off. There's a time and place to switch up strategy, moving away from what's working to what's not in the last 3 min isn't the right thing to do

PowerHouse
12-20-2014, 04:12 AM
Its not time to start the "Kobe needs to retire" picket line quite yet but Im starting to worry about his lack of efficiency carrying on this long. We're still in December but I was hoping he would have shaken the rust off by now. Maybe he already is past the rust and this 38% from the field crap is how its going to continue here on out. I would be very disappointed if this is the case.

PowerHouse
12-20-2014, 04:17 AM
That being said I think Lakers win tonight had Nick Young not lost his cool and get ejected early in the fourth. He was playing well.

ILLUSIONIST^248
12-20-2014, 06:38 AM
Woot

TheNumber37
12-20-2014, 07:05 AM
I do not care what his efficiency is. We are about 30 games in and Kobe is about 25, 5 and 5. WHO The HECK retires putting up those numbers.

Clearly, if he had talent around him, those percentages would rise and he would be looking like he had 3 or 4 years left.
Laker fans are so eager for a rebuild they cannot remember their franchise before Kobe... Please tell me about it

MTar786
12-20-2014, 07:57 AM
I do not care what his efficiency is. We are about 30 games in and Kobe is about 25, 5 and 5. WHO The HECK retires putting up those numbers.

Clearly, if he had talent around him, those percentages would rise and he would be looking like he had 3 or 4 years left.
Laker fans are so eager for a rebuild they cannot remember their franchise before Kobe... Please tell me about it

this is one of the many situations where stats dont tell you everything. kobe is pure garbage this year. ive watched every game this year so far and kobe has only played well in two

PurpleLynch
12-20-2014, 07:59 AM
No. He's playing bad right now,even if he's hustling a lot,but that doen't mean that he should retire. Kobe still remains Lakers's best attraction and this team is going anywhere anyway. Just wait till next season and we will see what our ****** FO will think to rebuilding this team.

Hotone1401
12-20-2014, 03:07 PM
this is one of the many situations where stats dont tell you everything. kobe is pure garbage this year. ive watched every game this year so far and kobe has only played well in two

This.

Plus, he's a huge liability on defense.

I really don't understand this idea that older players should try and stay lean. Kobe's been doin this for the past few years and I personally think he needs to hit the weight room to get back his strength and explosiveness. It's obvious his percentages are low because he doesn't have it physically. It's been kind of sad to watch but Kobe has way too much pride to just retire mid season.

Sanjay
12-20-2014, 06:45 PM
As a Laker fan but not a kobe fan, I would like to see the Lakers move on & rebuild.
Can't help but think what the Lakers could do with $25 Million this year & next.
And his fans will disagree but Lakers are probably better with kobe on bench.
Tonight Lakers lost to OKC (without Durant) by 1 pt with kobe missing all 4 shots at end, including the last shot that would have won the game. kobe was 3/15 & 0/3 from 3.
If this was just one game I could understand, but 37% fgs & 27% 3's for year.....

Before fans blame his bad teammates note the other starter shot 59% & bench over 50%.
Am I the only one thinking this is hurting Lakers & hurting kobe's legacy?

How can you be a Laker fan, but not a Kobe fan? He is the Lakers! To your point, Kobe wanted to prove everybody wrong by returning from this significant injury, but it is a shame he is coming to the end of his career with the Lakers a lottery team. All champions deserve to go out on or near the top, but personally I would have liked the Lakers to have used the $48 million to rebuild their team.

Wade n Fade
12-20-2014, 07:03 PM
If he retires, who will build Brick City with all his shots? Melo?

Wade n Fade
12-20-2014, 07:13 PM
37.7% from the field, 26.8% from 3 point land? Not even the best or the MVP on three Finals teams he was on. Raped a woman, settled outside of court. Kobe's MO is being insensitive towards teammates, fans, etc. He's not clutch as people think he is. The advanced metrics show Kobe is actually detrimental at times even though he's supposed to be a "star." http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/field-goals/sort/fieldGoalPct/order/false

Say hi to #120th best shooter in the NBA this season. Josh Smith is shooting better lmao. Kobe is one of the most overrated players in NBA history. His legions of fans are very ignorant when it comes towards discussing advanced metrics.

More-Than-Most
12-20-2014, 07:34 PM
25-5-5 is stupid to go by... Dudes having a horrid year... No he shouldn't retire... Why give up all that money? its a win/win for him and the lakers... they have no shot one way or another... with him they fill seats and get a top pick to rebuild this year and next.

Shammyguy3
12-20-2014, 07:37 PM
37.7% from the field, 26.8% from 3 point land? Not even the best or the MVP on three Finals teams he was on. Raped a woman, settled outside of court. Kobe's MO is being insensitive towards teammates, fans, etc. He's not clutch as people think he is. The advanced metrics show Kobe is actually detrimental at times even though he's supposed to be a "star." http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/field-goals/sort/fieldGoalPct/order/false

Say hi to #120th best shooter in the NBA this season. Josh Smith is shooting better lmao. Kobe is one of the most overrated players in NBA history. His legions of fans are very ignorant when it comes towards discussing advanced metrics.

Kobe should retire, he can't play this game at the level he wishes he could. But, this is not a post that should diminish his all-time greatness and standing. Now, of course that depends where you rank him, so this isn't a post directed to Wade n Fade. Just making a point.

tredigs
12-20-2014, 07:41 PM
I do not care what his efficiency is. We are about 30 games in and Kobe is about 25, 5 and 5. WHO The HECK retires putting up those numbers.

Clearly, if he had talent around him, those percentages would rise and he would be looking like he had 3 or 4 years left.
Laker fans are so eager for a rebuild they cannot remember their franchise before Kobe... Please tell me about it
"25/5/5"!

Sounds so great and looks so clean, doesn't it? Unfortunately, he's one of the worst defenders in the NBA and by far and away the most inefficient volume shooter. The Lakers are far worse when he has been on the floor, and that's saying something.

Crazy thing is, there are still people out there who think Kobe is a fringe top 10 player. Give me Gordon Hayward and 50 other players over Kobe every day of the week. In all honesty, I actually can't think of a worse player to have on your team.

PurpleLynch
12-20-2014, 07:47 PM
37.7% from the field, 26.8% from 3 point land? Not even the best or the MVP on three Finals teams he was on. Raped a woman, settled outside of court. Kobe's MO is being insensitive towards teammates, fans, etc. He's not clutch as people think he is. The advanced metrics show Kobe is actually detrimental at times even though he's supposed to be a "star." http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/field-goals/sort/fieldGoalPct/order/false

Say hi to #120th best shooter in the NBA this season. Josh Smith is shooting better lmao. Kobe is one of the most overrated players in NBA history. His legions of fans are very ignorant when it comes towards discussing advanced metrics.

You are comparing a power forward to a shooting guard who has been out for a year with one of the worst injury a bball player can sustain(and he's also 36,while Smith is 29).
I agree,he's playing bad right now.
But your post was basically trolling,knowing that a lot of posts will be against you and knowing that,finally, your crave for attention would be satisfied.
Plus what kind of advanced metrics did you use? The only thing I see are two shooting percentages. And please,don't answer me showing how bad Kobe's stats are,anyone knows,me included.
Also,when you talk about stats,you have to use also the usage percentage and all that kind of stuff.
Maybe...just maybe...you are the ignorant? Who knows...



PS: Megan Fox is really dumb.Just saying.

Munkeysuit
12-20-2014, 07:58 PM
Should Kobe retire? YES!

Munkeysuit
12-20-2014, 07:58 PM
...wait, I meant NO!

jericho
12-20-2014, 08:18 PM
How can you be a Laker fan, but not a Kobe fan? He is the Lakers! To your point, Kobe wanted to prove everybody wrong by returning from this significant injury, but it is a shame he is coming to the end of his career with the Lakers a lottery team. All champions deserve to go out on or near the top, but personally I would have liked the Lakers to have used the $48 million to rebuild their team.

I am a Knicks fan and not a Melo fan. I dont see why he cant be a Lakers fan and not a Kobe fan. Its actually kinda refreshing to see. Kobe fans tend to give the Laker fans a bad rep.

Wade n Fade
12-20-2014, 08:23 PM
Kobe should retire, he can't play this game at the level he wishes he could. But, this is not a post that should diminish his all-time greatness and standing. Now, of course that depends where you rank him, so this isn't a post directed to Wade n Fade. Just making a point.

I rank him in the Top 25 probably. Top 10 is a stretch though. Anything beyond that is absurd. Jordan, Wilt, Big O, Duncan, Russell, Magic, Malone, Hakeem, and Shaq are some players I find that are better than Kobe. To me Kobe's defense is above average, his shooting is bad especially with the back end of his career, he wasn't even the best player on the three pete Lakers. Kobe falls into a category I like to call "overrated and overblown shooters" ala Melo and T-Mac. Kobe won titles, but that's what separates him from those other aforementioned two. But overrated shooting is something all three have in common.

jericho
12-20-2014, 08:25 PM
You are comparing a power forward to a shooting guard who has been out for a year with one of the worst injury a bball player can sustain(and he's also 36,while Smith is 29).
I agree,he's playing bad right now.
But your post was basically trolling,knowing that a lot of posts will be against you and knowing that,finally, your crave for attention would be satisfied.
Plus what kind of advanced metrics did you use? The only thing I see are two shooting percentages. And please,don't answer me showing how bad Kobe's stats are,anyone knows,me included.
Also,when you talk about stats,you have to use also the usage percentage and all that kind of stuff.
Maybe...just maybe...you are the ignorant? Who knows...



PS: Megan Fox is really dumb.Just saying.

You do know that that PF thinks he is a shooting guard rite?

mngopher35
12-20-2014, 08:28 PM
I am a Knicks fan and not a Melo fan. I dont see why he cant be a Lakers fan and not a Kobe fan. Its actually kinda refreshing to see. Kobe fans tend to give the Laker fans a bad rep.

Yup I was gonna say the same thing minus the Knicks part. Kobe isn't the lakers, they have way more history than that.

Wade n Fade
12-20-2014, 08:42 PM
You are comparing a power forward to a shooting guard who has been out for a year with one of the worst injury a bball player can sustain(and he's also 36,while Smith is 29).
I agree,he's playing bad right now.
But your post was basically trolling,knowing that a lot of posts will be against you and knowing that,finally, your crave for attention would be satisfied.
Plus what kind of advanced metrics did you use? The only thing I see are two shooting percentages. And please,don't answer me showing how bad Kobe's stats are,anyone knows,me included.
Also,when you talk about stats,you have to use also the usage percentage and all that kind of stuff.
Maybe...just maybe...you are the ignorant? Who knows...



PS: Megan Fox is really dumb.Just saying.

Josh Smith is a tweener between the three and the four. I sent a link to the stats. It's not like I wasn't hiding anything. Keep in mind, Josh Smith is a low IQ basketball player that shoots threes like crazy. As for advanced metrics, the easiest is to go off the PER. Let's use Wade since he's the closest to Kobe in terms of titles and position among active SGs. Wade has a PER of 23.70. Kobe has a 18.34.

Here are Hollinger's stats:

GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA

20 32.7 .567 18.6 12.8 32.9 5.0 9.6 7.2 23.70 128.8 4.3

Now, for Kobe's Hollinger Stats:

26 35.4 .479 14.6 9.7 34.0 2.3 14.5 8.0 18.34 107.6 3.6

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sg

Wade adds more value and estimated wins.

Before his injury, Kobe wasn't lighting up the stats line at the rate that people claim he was.

Henry Abbott mentioned stuff about Kobe as well:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

Now, Baxter Holmes' article:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11938700/save-los-angeles-lakers-kobe-bryant

Sorry, but Kobe wasn't known as an efficient scorer before his injuries and old basketball age.

How am I trolling if he had to settle with a girl that he admitted to having sex with? Infidelity is not something to be celebrated. It has been known that not many stars want to play with Kobe. His attitude is "me first" and he throws teammates under the bus a lot. He takes competition overboard too. Ray Allen is a fierce competitor, but he's not a bad teammate by selling others out. Sorry, but if you think that I am wrong, I'll let you think Kobe is #2 all time or a top 5 player. I am not a shill or a conformist.

RLundi
12-20-2014, 09:13 PM
No, not at all. He should keep playing as long as someone is willing to pay him.

But for real, he's been really awful this season. There's a reason players are complaining. He's always been an ***hole but this is the first year there's been outright criticism against him from multiple players (outside of Shaq). It's because he sucks. And he's still shooting as if he doesn't suck. When you're a prick and a detriment to your team, no one will really say anything if you're good and the team is winning. But neither of those are currently happening, hence the backlash from Lin and Young.

Kobe doesn't need to retire. He needs to change his attitude and play team-oriented ball. Because quite frankly, 25-5-5 doesn't mean jack ****. Half of the players in the NBA can average that with Kobe's insane usage.

ILLUSIONIST^248
12-20-2014, 11:07 PM
37.7% from the field, 26.8% from 3 point land? Not even the best or the MVP on three Finals teams he was on. Raped a woman, settled outside of court. Kobe's MO is being insensitive towards teammates, fans, etc. He's not clutch as people think he is. The advanced metrics show Kobe is actually detrimental at times even though he's supposed to be a "star." http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/field-goals/sort/fieldGoalPct/order/false

Say hi to #120th best shooter in the NBA this season. Josh Smith is shooting better lmao. Kobe is one of the most overrated players in NBA history. His legions of fans are very ignorant when it comes towards discussing advanced metrics.

:violin: you sounds like a little girl

FlashBolt
12-20-2014, 11:14 PM
I don't think he should retire. By what metric, exactly? As a star player, his ego is telling him he's 28. Lakers need to find a new first option because Kobe clearly isn't that type of player anymore. He hasn't been for over 4 years. Paired up with a first option, I don't see why he should retire. Name a 36 year old guard who has the responsibilities that Kobe has right now.

JasonJohnHorn
12-20-2014, 11:21 PM
As far as basketball goes, yes. I mean... what he's shooting right now? It's awful.

From a business perspective? No. He's got tens of millions of dollars owed to him. Plus he is still a cash cow for the Lakers.

jerellh528
12-20-2014, 11:32 PM
He should play as long as he wants to. I think if there was a star guy who could create his own shot or a top tier pg at least, a ton of pressure would be taken off kobe and his play would increase a ton. He's 15th in the NBA in mpg, that's ridiculous, and he is still the best offensive option on the team, second best would be swaggy p for crying out loud. He needs help, he could still be very effective if he had a few good guys to take pressure off him imo. Even though his shooting numbers are inefficient, I doubt many players at his age and injury history could play at this level, which is basically iverson efficiency. And his defense is bad, but a lot of that is expending so much energy on offense because he's shoulderig the entire load.

lamzoka
12-21-2014, 12:08 AM
Kobe is the most overrated player in NBA history. That's a fact.

FlashBolt
12-21-2014, 12:14 AM
He should play as long as he wants to. I think if there was a star guy who could create his own shot or a top tier pg at least, a ton of pressure would be taken off kobe and his play would increase a ton. He's 15th in the NBA in mpg, that's ridiculous, and he is still the best offensive option on the team, second best would be swaggy p for crying out loud. He needs help, he could still be very effective if he had a few good guys to take pressure off him imo. Even though his shooting numbers are inefficient, I doubt many players at his age and injury history could play at this level, which is basically iverson efficiency. And his defense is bad, but a lot of that is expending so much energy on offense because he's shoulderig the entire load.

I completely agree 100%. He's a second option-third option guy at this point of his career. Look at all the other legends right now: KG, Duncan, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Jason Kidd, heck, even Steve Nash. None of those guys have the responsibility that Kobe has at the age of 36. Nash controlled the ball but that Phoenix team was much better than this Lakers squad. Not to mention the mileage on Kobe.. for a guard to be able to play the way he can right now.. it's damn impressive. I get that he can't play defense/is inefficient. However, retiring is a bit absurd. He will play great alongside another superstar.. which he doesn't have.

curtcocaine
12-21-2014, 12:19 AM
I completely agree 100%. He's a second option-third option guy at this point of his career. Look at all the other legends right now: KG, Duncan, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Jason Kidd, heck, even Steve Nash. None of those guys have the responsibility that Kobe has at the age of 36. Nash controlled the ball but that Phoenix team was much better than this Lakers squad. Not to mention the mileage on Kobe.. for a guard to be able to play the way he can right now.. it's damn impressive. I get that he can't play defense/is inefficient. However, retiring is a bit absurd. He will play great alongside another superstar.. which he doesn't have.
Its not the fall off, its the bounce back.

kobe4thewinbang
12-21-2014, 12:20 AM
You guys are nuts! It's Kobe Bryant we're talking about. 5 time champion. Nobody else on that team can shine his shoes, and because he's shooting a bit worse than usual, he should retire and not be on the court? Lakers would be helpless. Kobe is finally healthy again, is beasting despite you crazy MFers thinking he's not for whatever reason, and his team flat out sucks 9 games out of 10. Mitch made a laughable offer for Rondo. But if they had landed Rondo, Lakers *could* make the playoffs with Rondo dishing out passes, oh and they'd still have Kobe. It's awful that this is what they're giving Kobe to work with for his twilight years.

jerellh528
12-21-2014, 01:22 AM
I completely agree 100%. He's a second option-third option guy at this point of his career. Look at all the other legends right now: KG, Duncan, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Jason Kidd, heck, even Steve Nash. None of those guys have the responsibility that Kobe has at the age of 36. Nash controlled the ball but that Phoenix team was much better than this Lakers squad. Not to mention the mileage on Kobe.. for a guard to be able to play the way he can right now.. it's damn impressive. I get that he can't play defense/is inefficient. However, retiring is a bit absurd. He will play great alongside another superstar.. which he doesn't have.

Agree with everything you said, the only question would be, does kobe have it in him to be a second option, at least until playoffs started so he can still try to have his glory there if he wanted. I think at this point, like you said he should take a page out of Duncan's book and play second or third guy, and turn it up for playoffs. He played sooo good in the Olympics in that role, if only he translated it to the lakers. I think he just doesn't have a guy he trusts, like he had in melo in the Olympics. He is still serviceable and would be a heck of a guy to have in the locker room to keep everyone's eye on the prize.

RLundi
12-21-2014, 01:32 AM
You guys are nuts! It's Kobe Bryant we're talking about. 5 time champion. Nobody else on that team can shine his shoes, and because he's shooting a bit worse than usual, he should retire and not be on the court? Lakers would be helpless. Kobe is finally healthy again, is beasting despite you crazy MFers thinking he's not for whatever reason, and his team flat out sucks 9 games out of 10. Mitch made a laughable offer for Rondo. But if they had landed Rondo, Lakers *could* make the playoffs with Rondo dishing out passes, oh and they'd still have Kobe. It's awful that this is what they're giving Kobe to work with for his twilight years.

You are nothing but a clueless homer.

DODGERS&LAKERS
12-21-2014, 01:50 AM
Yup, Kobe should retire because at age 36, coming off missing an entire year due to the most devastating injury a basketball player can have, he is shooting the same ts% as Allen Iverson at age 26 and pretty much his whole career. Did you guys ask Iverson to just give up at 23 once he noticed he wasn't going to be as efficient as you would like?

This is Kobe vs Iverson. Kobe this year and Iverson at age 26, the year after his MVP year. PER 36 numbers Kobe is slightly better. Advanced numbers, Iverson is slightly better. Should Iverson have retired at 26 because he was an over rated chucker?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=bryanko01&y2=2002&p2=iversal01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

MTar786
12-21-2014, 03:53 AM
37.7% from the field, 26.8% from 3 point land? Not even the best or the MVP on three Finals teams he was on. Raped a woman, settled outside of court. Kobe's MO is being insensitive towards teammates, fans, etc. He's not clutch as people think he is. The advanced metrics show Kobe is actually detrimental at times even though he's supposed to be a "star." http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/field-goals/sort/fieldGoalPct/order/false

Say hi to #120th best shooter in the NBA this season. Josh Smith is shooting better lmao. Kobe is one of the most overrated players in NBA history. His legions of fans are very ignorant when it comes towards discussing advanced metrics.

how does kobe sucking now at thispoint in his career validate anything youre saying about his career. do you feel you have proved everyone wrong about kobe as a player for his career based on his current play?? umm ok lol

MTar786
12-21-2014, 04:01 AM
heres kobes problem. kobe refuses to adapt. Kobe could actually still be a top 10 player if he was willing to change.
Look at tim. tim isnt the same timmy he was 5 years ago. he adapted to his role and that let him stay extremely impactful. jason kidd did the same thing on a much smaller margin.
ive witnessed every laker game this year. If kobe was able to change his role to a jamaal crawford, jr smith, ginobli role he would still be elite. i honestly think kobe could easily play 27-28 mins a game and shoot at 50%fg clip taking like 15-16 shots a game and averaging 20 easily and still getting 5 and 5 on top of that.
the issue kobe has is that he isnt selective with his shots at all. he think he can make anything which he clearly cant even do a little anymore. And his other issue is that he gasses out so bad with his last 10 mins or so of his play that he negates anything positive he had brought to the table initially.
kobe could win 6th man of the year on a championship caliber team if he adapted.

cahawk
12-21-2014, 04:11 AM
As to Age - Most agree that MJ should not have come back after 3 years out of the NBA to Wizards.
And Michael Jordans last year at age 40 stats: 20 ppg, .445 fg% & .291% 3's
kobe at age 36 stats: 24 ppg, .377 fg% & .268% 3's

More-Than-Most
12-21-2014, 05:21 AM
Yup, Kobe should retire because at age 36, coming off missing an entire year due to the most devastating injury a basketball player can have, he is shooting the same ts% as Allen Iverson at age 26 and pretty much his whole career. Did you guys ask Iverson to just give up at 23 once he noticed he wasn't going to be as efficient as you would like?

This is Kobe vs Iverson. Kobe this year and Iverson at age 26, the year after his MVP year. PER 36 numbers Kobe is slightly better. Advanced numbers, Iverson is slightly better. Should Iverson have retired at 26 because he was an over rated chucker?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=bryanko01&y2=2002&p2=iversal01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Iverson is extremely overrated and wasnt making as much as Kobe is correct?

Bostonjorge
12-21-2014, 05:52 AM
Ok this is dumb. Of course Kobe should not retire. The NBA is a league now where you team can suck and then have 3 superstars. I'm saying we don't know who Kobe will have on his team next year or in the future. If Kobe is hurting a team with stars or taking away shots form superstar players then maybe. But taking shoots away from lin or boozer, players no other teams wanted then no.

tredigs
12-21-2014, 05:59 AM
Yup, Kobe should retire because at age 36, coming off missing an entire year due to the most devastating injury a basketball player can have, he is shooting the same ts% as Allen Iverson at age 26 and pretty much his whole career. Did you guys ask Iverson to just give up at 23 once he noticed he wasn't going to be as efficient as you would like?

This is Kobe vs Iverson. Kobe this year and Iverson at age 26, the year after his MVP year. PER 36 numbers Kobe is slightly better. Advanced numbers, Iverson is slightly better. Should Iverson have retired at 26 because he was an over rated chucker?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=bryanko01&y2=2002&p2=iversal01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Take notice of the #'s in your link of BPM, WS/48 and VORP. Helps tell you a little more about their respective impact.

DanG
12-21-2014, 06:46 AM
IMO its wrong to compare players using advanced stats. Nowaday superstars are such ******* and actually care about their efficiency and when it's time to SERIOUSLY take the game over they often sit in their little corner and end up not getting a touch. (Durant, LeBron few years back). Where the **** does it take you? Durant has 0 rings and LeBron lost to Dallas. Kobe has 5 rings.

Here's an example.

How do Thunder players feel about the halfcourt heave? Do they pull the just-after-the-buzzer move?

Kevin Durant: 的t depends on what I知 shooting from the field. First quarter if I知 4-for-4, I let it go. Third quarter if I知 like 10-for-16, or 10-for-17, I might let it go. But if I知 like 8-for-19, I知 going to go ahead and dribble one more second and let that buzzer go off and then throw it up there. So it depends on how the game痴 going.

Russell Westbrook: 哲o. Nope If I was considering about [statistics] I壇 do a lot of **** different.

That's why I have so much respect for Westbrook.

Now Durant's advanced stats are better than prime Kobe's and I would take prime Kobe any day of the week just because of Kobe's mentality.

I'm not trying to defend Kobe right now. I think he has been awful this year. He literally plays no defense and takes stupid contested midrange jumpers all the time. It's just the way I feel about advanced stats.

PurpleLynch
12-21-2014, 08:01 AM
Josh Smith is a tweener between the three and the four. I sent a link to the stats. It's not like I wasn't hiding anything. Keep in mind, Josh Smith is a low IQ basketball player that shoots threes like crazy. As for advanced metrics, the easiest is to go off the PER. Let's use Wade since he's the closest to Kobe in terms of titles and position among active SGs. Wade has a PER of 23.70. Kobe has a 18.34.

Here are Hollinger's stats:

GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA

20 32.7 .567 18.6 12.8 32.9 5.0 9.6 7.2 23.70 128.8 4.3

Now, for Kobe's Hollinger Stats:

26 35.4 .479 14.6 9.7 34.0 2.3 14.5 8.0 18.34 107.6 3.6

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sg

Wade adds more value and estimated wins.

Before his injury, Kobe wasn't lighting up the stats line at the rate that people claim he was.

Henry Abbott mentioned stuff about Kobe as well:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

Now, Baxter Holmes' article:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11938700/save-los-angeles-lakers-kobe-bryant

Sorry, but Kobe wasn't known as an efficient scorer before his injuries and old basketball age.

How am I trolling if he had to settle with a girl that he admitted to having sex with? Infidelity is not something to be celebrated. It has been known that not many stars want to play with Kobe. His attitude is "me first" and he throws teammates under the bus a lot. He takes competition overboard too. Ray Allen is a fierce competitor, but he's not a bad teammate by selling others out. Sorry, but if you think that I am wrong, I'll let you think Kobe is #2 all time or a top 5 player. I am not a shill or a conformist.

I don't think he's a top 5 player of all time. Look,I'm not the kind of Kobe's fan you are picturing in your own mind. I'm enough objective and I showed it in this forum.
Yes,Kobe is my favourite player of all time.
No,Kobe never will be a top 5 of all time,I agree(let alone 2nd).
Could he crack the top 10 of all time? Yes,when his career will be at his conclusion I think that a 9th or 10th spot is well deserved. (But I could be wrong and I already said in "Jalen's to 10 of all time" thread that I'm done with ranking because there are too many variables in ranking,not just stats).
Wade as an example?Man,Kobe just played 7 ****in seasons more than Wade(also 5 playoffs run more than Wade). Wade is still 32 and he is in complete decline.
Kobe=1465 games played.(playoffs included)
Wade=871 games played.(playoffs included)
Stats are surely useful,maybe the most important thing when you evaluate players of the same eras,but the difference is that Kobe's sample is huge compared to Wade's one. It's natural that Wade's stats are better(and he was more efficient,I agree,than Kobe),but the two are not comparable.
If you want to do a better comparison take Jordan and Kobe. There's a reason why people compares Kobe/Jordan and Wade is never in the discussion.
We'll see anyway when Wade will be 36.


PS:I said no stats,I know there are a good amount of players have better advanced stats than Kobe's.

DODGERS&LAKERS
12-21-2014, 01:55 PM
Take notice of the #'s in your link of BPM, WS/48 and VORP. Helps tell you a little more about their respective impact.

Those stats are team based. WS/48 takes into account how many games a team has won and tries to distribute credit accordingly. Obviously when comparing players yearly production, the player who plays more minutes, on a better team, in a weaker conference is going to have a higher WS/48. (If the players have similar production) Using WS/48 is equivalent to using the rings argument.

It relies heavily on defensive win shares which is a horrible stat. Question, who is a better defender, CP3 or Carlos Boozer? Iversons defensive win shares get plumped up due to having defensive studs surrounding him and playing the majority of his schedule against wish wash.

Same thing for BPM, VORP. Look at the definition of those stats. They even capitalize TEAM when showing how they come up with the number. Iversons age 25 INDIVIDUAL season was very similar to Kobe this year. Their INDIVIDUAL stats are very similar. The reason that the WS/48, BPM, and VORP are so different is because one was on a good team and the other is not. Do you like when people use the "chips" argument? I assume not. But using the 3 stats listed is basically the same argument is a stat form. Totally team based.

Vampirate
12-21-2014, 02:17 PM
Kobe has millions and millions of reasons not too retire.

DODGERS&LAKERS
12-21-2014, 02:18 PM
Iverson is extremely overrated and wasnt making as much as Kobe is correct?

He was overrated. People praised him for the same production a broken down old Kobe is putting up. The difference is that for one year Kobe plays as bad as Iverson did for his whole career and people are asking for his head. Is anyone overrating Kobe this year? Kobe's biggest supporters cant stand the way he has played this year.

Does how much a player make determine when they should retire? If the Lakers are dumb enough to pay him that money, its not to you or anyone to go and save them from the contract that they signed.

tredigs
12-21-2014, 02:46 PM
Those stats are team based. WS/48 takes into account how many games a team has won and tries to distribute credit accordingly. Obviously when comparing players yearly production, the player who plays more minutes, on a better team, in a weaker conference is going to have a higher WS/48. (If the players have similar production) Using WS/48 is equivalent to using the rings argument.

It relies heavily on defensive win shares which is a horrible stat. Question, who is a better defender, CP3 or Carlos Boozer? Iversons defensive win shares get plumped up due to having defensive studs surrounding him and playing the majority of his schedule against wish wash.

Same thing for BPM, VORP. Look at the definition of those stats. They even capitalize TEAM when showing how they come up with the number. Iversons age 25 INDIVIDUAL season was very similar to Kobe this year. Their INDIVIDUAL stats are very similar. The reason that the WS/48, BPM, and VORP are so different is because one was on a good team and the other is not. Do you like when people use the "chips" argument? I assume not. But using the 3 stats listed is basically the same argument is a stat form. Totally team based.

Ohrly? Because as a rookie on a 20 win team with the one of the worst D's in the NBA those #'s still weren't in the dumpster anywhere near Kobe's current level. Frankly I think AI was massively overrated by casual fans and media alike, but to compare him to this current Kobe is a slap in the face, and the #'s back that up. Your revisionist rundown of these simply being team stats is so far off base it's laughable (despite seeing "TEAM possessions" in a glossary definition somewhere and running with that).

If you want to get into SportsVu or Vantage stats and REALLY break down the individual black hole on offense and matador on defense that is Kobe Bryant right now, I can show you the path. But fair warning, it's going to be harder for you to swallow and there won't be any ambiguous team-based reasons for you to use as an out.

dnl123
12-21-2014, 03:57 PM
If I was Kobe, I would think about it just because I personally would want to go out on top and not as a role player. It's hard to walk away from so much money though. I personally hate seeing Kobe struggling from the field so much. He's still a great scorer, but he's definitely struggling with consistency and it's probably partly from age and a worn out body.

dnl123
12-21-2014, 03:58 PM
But Kobe has earned the right, to play as long as he wants to.

Tony_Starks
12-21-2014, 04:02 PM
My boy Hawkeye, a cool dude and very respectable poster has literally said "I can't wait until Kobe retires"

DODGERS&LAKERS
12-21-2014, 05:00 PM
Ohrly? Because as a rookie on a 20 win team with the one of the worst D's in the NBA those #'s still weren't in the dumpster anywhere near Kobe's current level. Frankly I think AI was massively overrated by casual fans and media alike, but to compare him to this current Kobe is a slap in the face, and the #'s back that up. Your revisionist rundown of these simply being team stats is so far off base it's laughable (despite seeing "TEAM possessions" in a glossary definition somewhere and running with that).

If you want to get into SportsVu or Vantage stats and REALLY break down the individual black hole on offense and matador on defense that is Kobe Bryant right now, I can show you the path. But fair warning, it's going to be harder for you to swallow and there won't be any ambiguous team-based reasons for you to use as an out.

Oh please enlighten me.

So do ws/48, BPM, and VORP not take 5 man groups production into consideration? Or did you just want to change the argument?

tredigs
12-21-2014, 05:19 PM
Oh please enlighten me.

So do ws/48, BPM, and VORP not take 5 man groups production into consideration? Or did you just want to change the argument?

LMao -- I'm not going to sit here and break down the components of these contextual based box-score stats for you. It's a massive undertaking and if you don't spend the time to learn it you won't understand them. Much of Kobe's struggles here lie in the massive Usage% Kobe retains with such minimal +production. Here's a very solid article (with friendly info-graphics!) to help you out: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2278387-kobe-bryant-poised-to-be-least-valuable-scoring-champion-in-nba-history

Other metrics like RPM use varying means to find the same result: That Kobe is not a player you want on your basketball team if winning games is of any concern.

And like I said, if you want to check out his very singular SportsVu and Vantage stats, I can point you down that dark path...

That said, @the OP. Why in the world would he retire? They're paying him 25 mil. He doesn't owe the Buss family any favors just because they made a poor decision (so far as it concerns winning games. Business wise is a different matter).

numba1CHANGsta
12-21-2014, 05:20 PM
Yet another Kobe thread LOL maybe we should change the name of the website to KobeDaily.com

tredigs
12-21-2014, 06:54 PM
Curious if it would surprise you that Kobe's WS/48, BPM and VORP were all better in the Lakers 06/07 struggle of a season than it was during their incredible 00/01 campaign?

JasonJohnHorn
12-21-2014, 07:26 PM
You guys are nuts! It's Kobe Bryant we're talking about. 5 time champion. Nobody else on that team can shine his shoes, and because he's shooting a bit worse than usual, he should retire and not be on the court? Lakers would be helpless. Kobe is finally healthy again, is beasting despite you crazy MFers thinking he's not for whatever reason, and his team flat out sucks 9 games out of 10. Mitch made a laughable offer for Rondo. But if they had landed Rondo, Lakers *could* make the playoffs with Rondo dishing out passes, oh and they'd still have Kobe. It's awful that this is what they're giving Kobe to work with for his twilight years.

First: The Lakers ARE helpless.

Second: Who cares how many rings he won, the question is how many rings will he help to win. Bill Russell has eleven. Nobody is signing him to a contract right now.

The truth of the matter is that if Kobe's name was Derrick Fishr and he was playing at this level, he would be a third string option.

RLundi
12-21-2014, 08:28 PM
LMao -- I'm not going to sit here and break down the components of these contextual based box-score stats for you. It's a massive undertaking and if you don't spend the time to learn it you won't understand them. Much of Kobe's struggles here lie in the massive Usage% Kobe retains with such minimal +production. Here's a very solid article (with friendly info-graphics!) to help you out: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2278387-kobe-bryant-poised-to-be-least-valuable-scoring-champion-in-nba-history

Other metrics like RPM use varying means to find the same result: That Kobe is not a player you want on your basketball team if winning games is of any concern.

And like I said, if you want to check out his very singular SportsVu and Vantage stats, I can point you down that dark path...

That said, @the OP. Why in the world would he retire? They're paying him 25 mil. He doesn't owe the Buss family any favors just because they made a poor decision (so far as it concerns winning games. Business wise is a different matter).

Kobe Bryant sucks. But you come across as a complete ***hole. Every time I read your posts, I find it difficult to disagree with your argument. But the matter-of-factly and patronizing way you go about it is repelling and sincerely annoying. You're sort of like DoMeFavors, but with synergy stats.

Please alter how you post. Your posts are often enlightening and refreshing; your attitude mars the content of what you say.

Please and thank you.

tredigs
12-21-2014, 08:32 PM
Kobe Bryant sucks. But you come across as a complete ***hole. Every time I read your posts, I find it difficult to disagree with your argument. But the matter-of-factly and patronizing way you go about it is repelling and sincerely annoying. You're sort of like DoMeFavors, but with synergy stats.

Please alter how you post. Your posts are often enlightening and refreshing; your attitude mars the content of what you say.

Please and thank you.

:clap: I actually agree with this. Most of the time I can't re-read my comments because my image annoys myself. But ultimately, find myself so jaded and annoyed by most posts on here that I've given up on humility/decency. Apologies and mahalo for your patience and understanding.

jerellh528
12-21-2014, 08:44 PM
:clap: I actually agree with this. Most of the time I can't re-read my comments because my image annoys myself. But ultimately, find myself so jaded and annoyed by most posts on here that I've given up on humility/decency. Apologies and mahalo for your patience and understanding.

Haha this is hilarious but true. I feel like this about chronz too.

tredigs
12-21-2014, 08:57 PM
Haha this is hilarious but true. I feel like this about chronz too.

Lmao for example, you jerell I sometimes feel bad about it because you're super nice and we're cool, but I know my matter-of-fact negativity in my posts about people like Kobe have to come off so annoying. They do to me. I think Chronz actually does a better job of keeping it constructive. I'll work on not being a dick on here.

Crackadalic
12-21-2014, 09:19 PM
No but man his defense is soooo bad this year.

Sean Moore
12-22-2014, 04:19 AM
#Trollthread

basketfan4life
12-22-2014, 05:56 AM
He needs to play a Paul Pierce role for a contending team. He will be way better than Pierce or any other man playing that role. We know he won't retire because of his competitiveness and 48 million dollars, but if he is not playing for a contender and not good at being the first option anymore, whats the point?

He is stucked.

JV35
12-22-2014, 06:10 AM
if he is not playing for a contender and not good at being the first option anymore, whats the point?


Maybe he thinks he still has a prayer of chasing down Kareem for #1 on the all-time scoring list.

basketfan4life
12-22-2014, 07:02 AM
Maybe he thinks he still has a prayer of chasing down Kareem for #1 on the all-time scoring list.

I don't think it is that. I mean it's not worth it.

Iron24th
12-22-2014, 07:34 AM
You are nothing but a clueless homer.

Yes he is, and you are nothing but a clueless hater, everyone has to deal with his own problems I guess.

Andrew32
12-22-2014, 09:11 AM
He needs to play a Paul Pierce role for a contending team. He will be way better than Pierce or any other man playing that role. We know he won't retire because of his competitiveness and 48 million dollars, but if he is not playing for a contender and not good at being the first option anymore, whats the point?

He is stucked.

I actually agree that Kobe could still be quite valuable in a more limited role but Kobe has proven himself unwilling to ever adapt and change his role despite his declining ability.

Kobe should have started taking a smaller role all the way back in 2011 when it was clear he had fallen out of his Prime and was no longer capable of handling the volume role and didn't need to do so with two 20/10 bigs on his team.

Frankly though it may be in the Laker best interest to tank hard (keep their pick) so letting Kobe gun may actually be for the best though it would be very painful for Laker fans if they end up having a record just good enough to lose their pick.
I still enjoy watching Kobe play since he is such a skilled and flashy guy so I don't care if he scores 40ppg on 20% shooting. Keep gunning Kobe!

lakerfan85
12-22-2014, 10:16 AM
Keep chucking Kobe.. Lakers need that number 1 pick..

RLundi
12-22-2014, 12:54 PM
Yes he is, and you are nothing but a clueless hater, everyone has to deal with his own problems I guess.

"Hater"? Egads, what grade are you in? How are you enjoying your two week vacation?

nickdymez
12-22-2014, 02:46 PM
"Hater"? Egads, what grade are you in? How are you enjoying your two week vacation?

"Egads"? What century is this and are we living a fairy tale?

RaiderLakersA's
12-22-2014, 03:50 PM
No, Kobe should not retire now. The Lakers were right to bring him back, they were just wrong for giving him that HUGE salary, knowing that it would impede the team's ability to bring in talent and build for the post-Kobe era. Sadly, you can't fire an owner.

Hawkeye15
12-22-2014, 03:54 PM
No, Kobe should not retire now. The Lakers were right to bring him back, they were just wrong for giving him that HUGE salary, knowing that it would impede the team's ability to bring in talent and build for the post-Kobe era. Sadly, you can't fire an owner.

god that would be awesome haha.

Tony_Starks
12-22-2014, 04:05 PM
Kobe isn't the problem. He's still giving the league buckets when he was supposed to be finished. The problem is you're asking a 36 year old man to save the city. Jim Buss needs to be ashamed of his damn self for squandering Kobes last days and the Lakers foreseeable future...

jmark
12-22-2014, 04:06 PM
He can play until he wants to. He's making millions. THis isnt football where it pains to play all the time.

TheIlladelph16
12-22-2014, 04:21 PM
No, he shouldn't retire. He has a fantastic contract his front-office questionably handed him and makes him like $50 million in two years.

To those who think that Kobe "isn't the problem", that may not be exactly correct. But he is absolutely a part of it. He's been mostly terrible this season and he's contributing greatly to the losing effort at this point on both ends of the floor.

Jenceman
12-22-2014, 04:24 PM
Kobe sucks hot dick right now but he's still a top ten player all time

Iron24th
12-22-2014, 05:23 PM
"Hater"? Egads, what grade are you in? How are you enjoying your two week vacation?

Seems like you can't even read correctly, I'm not living in the US.


"Egads"? What century is this and are we living a fairy tale?

:laugh2:

RaiderLakersA's
12-22-2014, 05:45 PM
He can play until he wants to. He's making millions. THis isnt football where it pains to play all the time.

You must be a young fella. Enjoy the vitality of youth while you can my friend.

As an "old" geezer, I can assure you that constant physical exertion of any kind after a certain age does catch up to you. Not is it only well-documented fact that the wear and tear of the NBA season is an absolute detriment on players' physical health in the NBA, but it is also a drain on their mental acuiety. This is why you see Coach Pop and others resting their vet players as much as possible during the season. It's why vet players don't practice every single session.

We only think we're indestructible when we're young, but Father Time always tells the truth of it.

Hawkeye15
12-22-2014, 05:47 PM
You must be a young fella. Enjoy the vitality of youth while you can my friend.

As an "old" geezer, I can assure you that constant physical exertion of any kind after a certain age does catch up to you. Not is it only well-documented fact that the wear and tear of the NBA season is an absolute detriment on players' physical health in the NBA, but it is also a drain on their mental acuiety. This is why you see Coach Pop and others resting their vet players as much as possible during the season. It's why vet players don't practice every single session.

We only think we're indestructible when we're young, but Father Time always tells the truth of it.

I can play 2 games of basketball now, and my back is ****ed the next day haha. I am only 3 years older than Kobe

Tony_Starks
12-22-2014, 05:58 PM
I really feel like bumping the "what will Kobe average" thread right now. Long story short a whole lot of people around here had him averaging like 18 points playing like a shell of himself. He's beating the odds every time he steps on the court, management sucks....

Hawkeye15
12-22-2014, 06:05 PM
I really feel like bumping the "what will Kobe average" thread right now. Long story short a whole lot of people around here had him averaging like 18 points playing like a shell of himself. He's beating the odds every time he steps on the court, management sucks....

oh he is still playing like a shell of himself, many of us are just amazed he is allowed to shoot as many times as he does. I can't hold it against him, that is his mindset, his body just doesn't work the same anymore.

Tony_Starks
12-22-2014, 06:18 PM
I really feel like bumping the "what will Kobe average" thread right now. Long story short a whole lot of people around here had him averaging like 18 points playing like a shell of himself. He's beating the odds every time he steps on the court, management sucks....

oh he is still playing like a shell of himself, many of us are just amazed he is allowed to shoot as many times as he does. I can't hold it against him, that is his mindset, his body just doesn't work the same anymore.

True. But a lot of people, not yourself, were saying he'd only get like 18 no matter how many times he shot. Putting up 25 at his age is sick no matter how you slice it. He's basically Melo plus like what 8 years? Ridiculous.

Tony_Starks
12-22-2014, 06:22 PM
And for the record even though Kobe is doing better than expected, he still completely disrupts the offense. Nick Young, Hill, and Boozer seem to be the only guys that aren't intimidated by him...

Hawkeye15
12-22-2014, 06:28 PM
True. But a lot of people, not yourself, were saying he'd only get like 18 no matter how many times he shot. Putting up 25 at his age is sick no matter how you slice it. He's basically Melo plus like what 8 years? Ridiculous.

I figured he would get around 18-20 a night (I think that is what I said???), but thought he would play a little less.

You above statement is true. I just don't think Kobe wants to realize how far off his effectiveness he really is. He hurts the team badly with his play at times. Meh, not a bad thing for the Lakers in the long run..

Tony_Starks
12-22-2014, 06:37 PM
True. But a lot of people, not yourself, were saying he'd only get like 18 no matter how many times he shot. Putting up 25 at his age is sick no matter how you slice it. He's basically Melo plus like what 8 years? Ridiculous.

I figured he would get around 18-20 a night (I think that is what I said???), but thought he would play a little less.

You above statement is true. I just don't think Kobe wants to realize how far off his effectiveness he really is. He hurts the team badly with his play at times. Meh, not a bad thing for the Lakers in the long run..

Man you know its a sad day when I'm watching the games like "give Lin the ball!!!!!!" Lol

Hawkeye15
12-22-2014, 06:45 PM
Man you know its a sad day when I'm watching the games like "give Lin the ball!!!!!!" Lol

hahaha

"Wes Johnson is wide open!"

Wes.****ing.Johnson

RLundi
12-22-2014, 06:48 PM
Seems like you can't even read correctly, I'm not living in the US.



:laugh2:

1. You're assuming I'm doing this from a computer. Mobile doesn't display location.

2. You're assuming I give a **** about your location.

3. You're still a petulant child.

RLundi
12-22-2014, 06:50 PM
"Egads"? What century is this and are we living a fairy tale?

Aww too long a word for you? I tried to keep it short, but I guess your low intelligence level only comprehends 4 letters and below.

Sorry.

nickdymez
12-22-2014, 07:02 PM
Aww too long a word for you? I tried to keep it short, but I guess your low intelligence level only comprehends 4 letters and below.

Sorry.
Yea, like **** you

RLundi
12-22-2014, 09:16 PM
Yea, like **** you

Exactly!

Despite your usual pathetic post history and startling inability to understand what a statistic is, I suppose you aren't as stupid as I originally thought. You learn concepts fairly quickly, more so than I figured you would anyway.

Cheers.

andy2518
12-22-2014, 09:27 PM
Aww too long a word for you? I tried to keep it short, but I guess your low intelligence level only comprehends 4 letters and below.

Sorry.

It seems no one on here is worthy of your wit.

macc
12-22-2014, 09:29 PM
My brother is a Lakers fan so I catch Alot of the games but from what I've seen is that it's Kobes ego that is holding him back. His mindset on this team is more about 'being the man' then running a successful offense. He constantly changes the tempo to the game when he feels he needs to dominate the ball.

Everyone knows Kobe will get his. He needs to just let an offense where everyone touches the ball flow and the open guy take the shot. Put his stats aside for the betterment of the team.

Lakers players may be bad but they are still NBA players. In today's NBA you don't have to be an all around basketball player to have an impact. You just need to be good at one or two things. San Antonio does a great job maximizing their role players. Every team is capable of it. I dont think Kobe dominating the ball and taking 25 shots a game is their best offensive gameplan.

andy2518
12-22-2014, 09:29 PM
Exactly!

Despite your usual pathetic post history and startling inability to understand what a statistic is, I suppose you aren't as stupid as I originally thought. You learn concepts fairly quickly, more so than I figured you would anyway.

Cheers.

You speak so well and articulate yourself so splendidly. We are truly in the presence of a superior being. Everyone give this man his due.

RLundi
12-22-2014, 10:52 PM
You speak so well and articulate yourself so splendidly. We are truly in the presence of a superior being. Everyone give this man his due.

Nickdymes puppet account :pity:

andy2518
12-22-2014, 11:33 PM
Nickdymes puppet account :pity:

That's some mighty fine deductive reasoning skills there chap.

Iron24th
12-23-2014, 12:05 AM
1. You're assuming I'm doing this from a computer. Mobile doesn't display location.

2. You're assuming I give a **** about your location.

3. You're still a petulant child.

You're assuming I give a **** about you using a mobile or a computer.

You're looking like really insecure with your comments.

Tony_Starks
12-23-2014, 01:05 AM
My brother is a Lakers fan so I catch Alot of the games but from what I've seen is that it's Kobes ego that is holding him back. His mindset on this team is more about 'being the man' then running a successful offense. He constantly changes the tempo to the game when he feels he needs to dominate the ball.

Everyone knows Kobe will get his. He needs to just let an offense where everyone touches the ball flow and the open guy take the shot. Put his stats aside for the betterment of the team.

Lakers players may be bad but they are still NBA players. In today's NBA you don't have to be an all around basketball player to have an impact. You just need to be good at one or two things. San Antonio does a great job maximizing their role players. Every team is capable of it. I dont think Kobe dominating the ball and taking 25 shots a game is their best offensive gameplan.

You're exactly right. Also the fact that him and B Scott are boys really hurts the team. Kobe is basically player\ coach right now. They're talking about resting him for a couple games, that will honestly do the team and him some good....

PowerHouse
12-23-2014, 02:17 AM
The mudslinging and overall ****- talk back and forth is why I keep coming back to PSD. Awsome.

Jenceman
12-23-2014, 06:48 AM
I really feel like bumping the "what will Kobe average" thread right now. Long story short a whole lot of people around here had him averaging like 18 points playing like a shell of himself. He's beating the odds every time he steps on the court, management sucks....


lol he's shooting 37% from the field. He plain sucks.

SeoulBeatz
12-23-2014, 08:14 AM
lol he's shooting 37% from the field. He plain sucks.

I think he's still capable of being a #1 option but man he is straight gunning recently lol.

All of Kobe's FGA vs. Kings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-yYAxbzp_M

He obviously doesn't respect any of his teammates and there are numerous times where someone is open in the post and he elects for a contested midrange jumper instead. His ego and frustration is pouring into his game and it's just producing ugly basketball for the whole team as a consequence.

RLundi
12-23-2014, 08:37 AM
You're assuming I give a **** about you using a mobile or a computer.

You're looking like really insecure with your comments.

You're likewise looking very insecure with your continuing to reply to me. Are you sure you're not off of school for the holidays? It's a magical time of year.

tredigs
12-23-2014, 08:52 AM
You're assuming I give a **** about you using a mobile or a computer.

You're looking like really insecure with your comments.

You should start betting on basketball mon frere. I think you'd crush. Your mind has that 'je ne sais quoi', non?

Or, you're just a clueless homer. One of the two, f'sho.

RLundi
12-23-2014, 12:17 PM
Seems like you can't even read correctly, I'm not living in the US.



:laugh2:


Yea, like **** you


That's some mighty fine deductive reasoning skills there chap.

My hypocrisy abounds :sigh:

My sincerest, gentlemen. Cheers.

cgreenhill
12-23-2014, 04:54 PM
Kobe should never retire. If the Lakers end up with a top 5 pick, and can bring in some talent in the off season for once then I say he gives the Lakers a few more years. If the Lakers can't sign a Star, then Kobe should take his talents to the East. I know he wants to be a Laker for life, but he could go to the East contend and put a team over the hump. And make some more money.

Iron24th
12-23-2014, 06:12 PM
You should start betting on basketball mon frere. I think you'd crush. Your mind has that 'je ne sais quoi', non?

Or, you're just a clueless homer. One of the two, f'sho.

You? Talking about being an homer lol priceless, whatever I appreciate your effort speaking french, it was actually pretty good, no kidding.

Iron24th
12-23-2014, 06:14 PM
You're likewise looking very insecure with your continuing to reply to me. Are you sure you're not off of school for the holidays? It's a magical time of year.

You must be on holidays too kid to keep replying.

bagwell368
12-23-2014, 06:18 PM
I hope he plays until he's 45 - and screws his rate stats totally.

tredigs
12-23-2014, 06:18 PM
You? Talking about being an homer lol priceless, whatever I appreciate your effort speaking french, it was actually pretty good, no kidding.

I'm a French citizen, I used to be pretty fluent as a little kid.

I'm not much of a homer, am I? Probably no person harder on my team when they had the old ownership. I don't even consider them the favorite to reach the finals right now.

nickdymez
12-23-2014, 06:22 PM
I hope he plays until he's 45 - and screws his rate stats totally.

You really hate that man huh.

beasted86
12-23-2014, 06:23 PM
I think he's still capable of being a #1 option but man he is straight gunning recently lol.

All of Kobe's FGA vs. Kings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-yYAxbzp_M

He obviously doesn't respect any of his teammates and there are numerous times where someone is open in the post and he elects for a contested midrange jumper instead. His ego and frustration is pouring into his game and it's just producing ugly basketball for the whole team as a consequence.
That is plain disgusting to watch. I'm sure the coaches have shown him this tape and he just doesn't care

SportsFanatic10
12-23-2014, 06:23 PM
complaining just got the other thread closed, i'm guessing this ones next lol.

Hawkeye15
12-23-2014, 06:29 PM
You really hate that man huh.

if you knew his history, he hates that type of player period. You should see his Iverson rants haha, they are amazing

nickdymez
12-23-2014, 06:33 PM
I see. Well this isn't college basketball. I guess what you guys are saying is that if Kobe played a little less selfishly, he would have maybe 10 titles and be number 1 on the all time scoring list. Because the way hes played over these past 19 years has seem him win 5 titles and end up 3rd all time scoring.

Hawkeye15
12-23-2014, 06:46 PM
I see. Well this isn't college basketball. I guess what you guys are saying is that if Kobe played a little less selfishly, he would have maybe 10 titles and be number 1 on the all time scoring list. Because the way hes played over these past 19 years has seem him win 5 titles and end up 3rd all time scoring.

how is that what anyone is saying? The way Kobe has played over his career is why he is a top player ever, he is just at a stage now where his ball hogging straight up hurts his team. Oh well, it's not as if they would have competed for anything even if he was the old Kobe, the way the roster is right now.

Iron24th
12-23-2014, 06:56 PM
I'm a French citizen, I used to be pretty fluent as a little kid.

I'm not much of a homer, am I? Probably no person harder on my team when they had the old ownership. I don't even consider them the favorite to reach the finals right now.

French citizen? Surprising, it's a small world I guess.

nickdymez
12-23-2014, 06:57 PM
how is that what anyone is saying? The way Kobe has played over his career is why he is a top player ever, he is just at a stage now where his ball hogging straight up hurts his team. Oh well, it's not as if they would have competed for anything even if he was the old Kobe, the way the roster is right now.
Your last line is the baffling thing about all of this. It's not like the roster is competitive at all. So if kobe were to shoot 10 times a game, and they still lose, what's the point? Our young draft pick is out for the year. What should he do?

MassoDio
12-23-2014, 07:33 PM
If someone is still willing to pay him, and he still wants to play...then he shouldn't retire. Even he were to be a 12th man on the end of the bench...as long as he WANTS to play, and someone is willing to let him, there is no reason for him to retire.

As long as an athlete is physically able, and has a desire to play, then keep playing.

With Kobe, he is in a crap situation right now. He is coming off of a major injury, his team is not good, and he still thinks he is the Kobe of old. (All top athletes struggle with letting go of that mentality.)

It is sad to watch him chuck up shots that he has no business taking, but that is his mentality.

I know his team is not good, but when a player takes 30 shots from the field, while only making 8, and others (Nick Young) were having a good shooting night and only has 14 (or 16, can't remember) shot attempts...that is sad.

Though I think Kobe needs to have a major coming to God moment about where he is at in his abilities at this stage of his career, I by no means think that he SHOULD retire if that is not what he wants.

ILLUSIONIST^248
12-23-2014, 07:41 PM
I see. Well this isn't college basketball. I guess what you guys are saying is that if Kobe played a little less selfishly, he would have maybe 10 titles and be number 1 on the all time scoring list. Because the way hes played over these past 19 years has seem him win 5 titles and end up 3rd all time scoring.

how is that what anyone is saying? The way Kobe has played over his career is why he is a top player ever, he is just at a stage now where his ball hogging straight up hurts his team. Oh well, it's not as if they would have competed for anything even if he was the old Kobe, the way the roster is right now.
He can't hurt this team. We flat out suck donkey balls

championships
12-23-2014, 07:44 PM
He'll retire next season and you guys can go back to worrying about your own little teams.

Avenged
12-23-2014, 07:51 PM
Chasing records while making millions or retire.. hmm..

Hawkeye15
12-23-2014, 08:26 PM
Your last line is the baffling thing about all of this. It's not like the roster is competitive at all. So if kobe were to shoot 10 times a game, and they still lose, what's the point? Our young draft pick is out for the year. What should he do?

Oh I am not defending him, nor piling on him. We agree, no matter what Kobe did, this team would stink. The roster is just not good right now. In all reality, let Kobe shoot for the record books, and try and keep your pick. Best case scenario.

Honestly, I think people WANTED to see this from Kobe (well, those that are not fans). I have never been a Kobe fan, but I don't like seeing him go out like this, gunning away and being ripped apart by fans and media. The dude had a great career. He pissed me off haha, but I always respected him. Even if I have had disagreements with Laker fans on how good he was in different timelines. People are acting as if its a new thing that an all timer ends up not being very good eventually. Father time always wins.

Hawkeye15
12-23-2014, 08:27 PM
He can't hurt this team. We flat out suck donkey balls

he is hurting them. But from what, 3-4 extra wins? He is really just shooting way too much. But yeah, the Lakers are just bad this year. They are better off in the long run with him doing this.

RLundi
12-23-2014, 11:48 PM
You must be on holidays too kid to keep replying.

Actually, I am. I'm a HS teacher, I don't go back to work for another week and a half.

cahawk
12-24-2014, 02:09 AM
kobe sat out his 1st game tonight & his teammates easily beat Golden State (23-3) best record in NBA.

basketfan4life
12-24-2014, 03:37 AM
hahaha

"Wes Johnson is wide open!"

Wes.****ing.Johnson

I completely get what you say. But really, i'm starting to like Wes Johnson. His shot form is quick, knocking down threes lately, playing decent defence on his man. Little by little, he is starting to show why he was the 4th pick, little by little.

Iron24th
12-24-2014, 06:08 AM
Actually, I am. I'm a HS teacher, I don't go back to work for another week and a half.

You are in HS for sure but not as a teacher the way you act "childish".

RLundi
12-24-2014, 07:09 AM
You are in HS for sure but not as a teacher the way you act "childish".

So do you think your insistence on replying to me with insults is the mark of a mature person? It's not even about basketball anymore -- never was I suppose -- yet you have real difficulties letting go. And I'd wager you will rebut this post as well, with an insult no less, but continue to hypocritically refer to my actions as "childish."

Avenged
12-24-2014, 09:11 AM
kobe sat out his 1st game tonight & his teammates easily beat Golden State (23-3) best record in NBA.

You don't say? :speechless:

Iron24th
12-24-2014, 12:25 PM
So do you think your insistence on replying to me with insults is the mark of a mature person? It's not even about basketball anymore -- never was I suppose -- yet you have real difficulties letting go. And I'd wager you will rebut this post as well, with an insult no less, but continue to hypocritically refer to my actions as "childish."

Hey you started it, so stop playing the victim.

RLundi
12-24-2014, 03:49 PM
Hey you started it, so stop playing the victim.

Again, "you started it"? Come on man, enough with this juvenile crap. I don't even have to know you personally to infer this kind of behavior is more than likely beneath you. Or maybe it isn't. 50-50 right now, sadly.

If you'd really like to get into the semantics of it, you replied to me initially. You were hurt I attacked one of your Lakers brethren -- one that I have had issues with -- and no doubt your "United we stand, divided we fall!" philosophy toward other Laker fans kicked in and you felt compelled to back up your brother in the struggle. That's all fine and good but don't you dare have the shameless audacity to pretend "I started it." I don't consider there to be any victims here, contrary to whatever it is you're talking about; only hypocrites. That's you btw, if you were unsure.

PurpleLynch
12-25-2014, 09:46 AM
Oh I am not defending him, nor piling on him. We agree, no matter what Kobe did, this team would stink. The roster is just not good right now. In all reality, let Kobe shoot for the record books, and try and keep your pick. Best case scenario.

Honestly, I think people WANTED to see this from Kobe (well, those that are not fans). I have never been a Kobe fan, but I don't like seeing him go out like this, gunning away and being ripped apart by fans and media. The dude had a great career. He pissed me off haha, but I always respected him. Even if I have had disagreements with Laker fans on how good he was in different timelines. People are acting as if its a new thing that an all timer ends up not being very good eventually. Father time always wins.


Unfortunately yes, but we could argue that Father Time was very generous with Kobe and I'm glad because of it. He's playing bad,but if he only could understand that he has to take a different role from the past I think he would be still a good player.
Said that,just let Kobe retire when he will be 40. Anyone knows that he won't leave a bball court,the man just loves playing bball more than anything else.

Iron24th
12-25-2014, 11:19 AM
Again, "you started it"? Come on man, enough with this juvenile crap. I don't even have to know you personally to infer this kind of behavior is more than likely beneath you. Or maybe it isn't. 50-50 right now, sadly.

If you'd really like to get into the semantics of it, you replied to me initially. You were hurt I attacked one of your Lakers brethren -- one that I have had issues with -- and no doubt your "United we stand, divided we fall!" philosophy toward other Laker fans kicked in and you felt compelled to back up your brother in the struggle. That's all fine and good but don't you dare have the shameless audacity to pretend "I started it." I don't consider there to be any victims here, contrary to whatever it is you're talking about; only hypocrites. That's you btw, if you were unsure.

Classic, you judged a poster very quickly but are offended when someone does the same on you.

RLundi
12-25-2014, 11:41 AM
Classic, you judged a poster very quickly but are offended when someone does the same on you.

Serious question, have you ever had reading comprehension difficulties? Because I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, concocting things because you don't have a leg to stand on, or just don't understand what you're reading.

Tg11
12-25-2014, 01:21 PM
Kobe at this point in his career he is not in his prime but is more or less in his twilight years and I honestly never thought that I would say that but Kobe has nothing more to prove, he has won like 5 championships 3 of them were with Shaq and 2 of them on his own but either way Kobe is a first ballot NBA Hall of Famer if and when he does retire

Iron24th
12-25-2014, 03:47 PM
Serious question, have you ever had reading comprehension difficulties? Because I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, concocting things because you don't have a leg to stand on, or just don't understand what you're reading.

You were the one who was trolling, stop accusing people.

RLundi
12-25-2014, 05:16 PM
You were the one who was trolling, stop accusing people.

So you do have reading comprehension difficulties? Answer by omission, got it.

I can tell you're a child. Or a woman. For some reason I imagined you enlightened, intelligent, mature. Maybe because of post count? Or location? Not sure. I've seen now that is certainly not the case. You're pathetic. You will continue to go back and forth with me until you feel like you've "won," whatever that means, even when it's painfully obvious you keep contradicting yourself and dodging questions.

So I will end it here. Reply if you must and claim your last word; I'm not gonna waste my time responding to a basic clown.

Bye! :)

DillyDill
12-25-2014, 05:52 PM
Kobe is fine

Iron24th
12-25-2014, 06:54 PM
So you do have reading comprehension difficulties? Answer by omission, got it.

I can tell you're a child. Or a woman. For some reason I imagined you enlightened, intelligent, mature. Maybe because of post count? Or location? Not sure. I've seen now that is certainly not the case. You're pathetic. You will continue to go back and forth with me until you feel like you've "won," whatever that means, even when it's painfully obvious you keep contradicting yourself and dodging questions.

So I will end it here. Reply if you must and claim your last word; I'm not gonna waste my time responding to a basic clown.

Bye! :)

Lol you imagine people intelligent or not because of their post count or location? This is F laughable, then you're insulting people and claiming you're the one who is intelligent, well I think you definitely showed it.

Shlumpledink
12-25-2014, 07:02 PM
Wait, you're telling me that a guy who is on a team full of scrubs isn't leading them to the promised land on his first year back from a major injury with a new coach? As an NBA scholar like you must be I'm sure you're aware of the precedent put forth by nobody on this earth, but after literally no one else has done it why this man hasn't done it is totally inexcusable.

I submit that not only should he retire, but we should openly debate why this season is the standard on which we should judge this man, like we do with all 36 year old players.

Ty Fast
12-25-2014, 07:22 PM
Not with his contract

Hawkeye15
12-25-2014, 10:21 PM
I completely get what you say. But really, i'm starting to like Wes Johnson. His shot form is quick, knocking down threes lately, playing decent defence on his man. Little by little, he is starting to show why he was the 4th pick, little by little.

I am a Wolves fan. You understand I have literally nothing positive to say about Wes Johnson, right? He was the worst starting wing in the game for a few years, and we passed on Cousins for him (which I BLASTED at the time). I do not like him.

And really, he is still a poor NBA player. He has finally become a good shooter, but he is a far below average starter, in his peak year...

Hawkeye15
12-25-2014, 10:22 PM
Unfortunately yes, but we could argue that Father Time was very generous with Kobe and I'm glad because of it. He's playing bad,but if he only could understand that he has to take a different role from the past I think he would be still a good player.
Said that,just let Kobe retire when he will be 40. Anyone knows that he won't leave a bball court,the man just loves playing bball more than anything else.

sure, it helps Kobe took his profession very serious, and treated his body like a temple, and outworked nearly anyone in the gym.

Jamiecballer
12-25-2014, 11:16 PM
Wait, you're telling me that a guy who is on a team full of scrubs isn't leading them to the promised land on his first year back from a major injury with a new coach? As an NBA scholar like you must be I'm sure you're aware of the precedent put forth by nobody on this earth, but after literally no one else has done it why this man hasn't done it is totally inexcusable.

I submit that not only should he retire, but we should openly debate why this season is the standard on which we should judge this man, like we do with all 36 year old players.
Its not that he's playing poorly, because lots of players at 36 or whatever do. Its the fact that he's playing as poorly as he is but isnt showing any awareness of that fact. If he took on a role more in line with his performance people would go much easier on him I believe.

basketfan4life
12-26-2014, 05:12 AM
sure, it helps Kobe took his profession very serious, and treated his body like a temple, and outworked nearly anyone in the gym.

Yeah, i know and agree with you there. But i have to like someone on the lakers roster you know :) Otherwise it becomes unwatchable. I'm a big time Kobe fan and it's already sad to watch him play like that.

gaughan333
12-26-2014, 10:44 AM
I see. Well this isn't college basketball. I guess what you guys are saying is that if Kobe played a little less selfishly, he would have maybe 10 titles and be number 1 on the all time scoring list. Because the way hes played over these past 19 years has seem him win 5 titles and end up 3rd all time scoring.

This is the worst strawman I have EVER seen. Congrats to you