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View Full Version : If you could start an NBA team right now would you pick Lebron over Harden?



Denverbronco007
12-14-2014, 08:23 PM
James Harden is playing like the best person in the NBA, and here's why:

Leads the league in scoring at 26.3 points a game
4th in the league for steals, he averages 2 every game
Amongst guards he's 3rd in the league for blocked shots, he averages 1.1 a game

If I had to start a franchise I would pick Harden. Mostly because he's still getting better. Did I mention he gets to line better than anyone in the NBA.

Minimal
12-14-2014, 08:30 PM
This is no brainer. LeBron. I want for my team to win, not get eliminated in 1st round. You also forgot to mention Harden is shooting .417 % from the floor this season.

Nikeman
12-14-2014, 08:40 PM
You also forgot to mention Harden doesn't play something called defense on opponents

PowerHouse
12-14-2014, 08:57 PM
Landslide in favor of Lebron, next topic please.

Lebron hater here btw.

Cal827
12-14-2014, 09:06 PM
:laugh:

Cal827
12-14-2014, 09:08 PM
I'd pick Kobe over Harden to start and NBA team RIGHT NOW.

That gives you my opinion on Harden :laugh:

...... Maybe a little too much hate tho.

mightybosstone
12-14-2014, 09:10 PM
I'd pick Kobe over Harden to start and NBA team RIGHT NOW.

That gives you my opinion on Harden :laugh:

...... Maybe a little too much hate tho.

That's just ****ing idiotic. If you believe this, you're delusional.

Vinny642
12-14-2014, 09:14 PM
Two words.... 1 name... ANTHONY DAVIS

Jeffy25
12-14-2014, 09:14 PM
When you combine defense, and efficiency, this is a no-brainer.

LeBron is probably coasting a little bit so far this year, and we know he has had a sore knee.

But Harden's entire game is driving the paint and getting fouled and hitting some three's. While that's great to have someone on your team do that well, and you can put up some great numbers that way....I would rather have the all-around beast in LeBron.

Now, would I rather have Durant, or someone else over LeBron is another discussion, and I made another thread for that. There won't be many people to choose Harden here, and it'll probably mostly be Harden/Rocket fans any way.

Vinylman
12-14-2014, 09:21 PM
Smfh

mightybosstone
12-14-2014, 09:22 PM
Harden has a far, far greater all around game than PSD gives him credit for. He's one of the better ball handlers and playmakers in the league, he produces well across the board, he's one of the bench crunch time scorers in the league and (despite popular belief among PSD posters), he's defending at a pretty solid level right now.

All that being said, if you asked me if I would rather sign Harden or Lebron to a 5-year contract right now, it's still pretty easily Lebron. Now if you're asking me who I'd rather have for the next decade, I'm probably taking Harden, because I think Lebron has maybe only 3-4 more years playing at this level before we see a pretty significant dropoff. Harden, meanwhile, could play at this level for another 8-9 seasons.

Denverbronco007
12-14-2014, 09:26 PM
I just think harden's younger, and is trying to get better each year. Last year his defense sucked. This year he's playing both ends of the floor at an all star level. Lebron is almost past his prime. Harden's ceiling hasn't been defined yet.

I respect everyone's opinion though. Lebron is obviously super talented, as well as Durrant

Ty Fast
12-14-2014, 09:27 PM
That's just ****ing idiotic. If you believe this, you're delusional.

I had a different word in mind

Ty Fast
12-14-2014, 09:29 PM
Id reather have LBJ, KD, and AD over Harden.

M.I.A.
12-14-2014, 09:35 PM
When you combine defense, and efficiency, this is a no-brainer.

LeBron is probably coasting a little bit so far this year, and we know he has had a sore knee.

But Harden's entire game is driving the paint and getting fouled and hitting some three's. While that's great to have someone on your team do that well, and you can put up some great numbers that way....I would rather have the all-around beast in LeBron.

Now, would I rather have Durant, or someone else over LeBron is another discussion, and I made another thread for that. There won't be many people to choose Harden here, and it'll probably mostly be Harden/Rocket fans any way.

Bron does so much more. Harden will have to lead his team to 2 titles before I'd take him over Bron. There are the intangibles to consider, too. Bron led the Heat to 3 titles while Harden hasn't sniffed one.

Ezio
12-14-2014, 09:52 PM
How is this even a discussion? Led the Heat to 4 Finals appearances. Will probably be in the ECF or even Finals this year again.

Denverbronco007
12-14-2014, 10:00 PM
How is this even a discussion? Led the Heat to 4 Finals appearances. Will probably be in the ECF or even Finals this year again.


This is true, but Harden is starting to emerge as one of the top stars of the future

Cal827
12-14-2014, 10:21 PM
That's just ****ing idiotic. If you believe this, you're delusional.

:laugh: I say dumb **** just for your response bosstone :D

He's had a great year, but over Lebron? I wanna know what's that fine **** that you've been smoking OP.

M.I.A.
12-14-2014, 10:24 PM
This is true, but Harden is starting to emerge as one of the top stars of the future

I'll agree with that. But he's 3 titles behind Bron right now.

sep11ie
12-14-2014, 10:53 PM
Bron does so much more. Harden will have to lead his team to 2 titles before I'd take him over Bron. There are the intangibles to consider, too. Bron led the Heat to 3 titles while Harden hasn't sniffed one.
Shows how dumb you are. ..

Denverbronco007
12-14-2014, 10:53 PM
I'll agree with that. But he's 3 titles behind Bron right now.

I wasn't making a case for harden having the best career thus far. We all know Lebron is accomplished

M.I.A.
12-14-2014, 11:00 PM
Shows how dumb you are. ..

Thanks. Merry Christmas to you, too.

alexander_37
12-14-2014, 11:02 PM
:laugh: I say dumb **** just for your response bosstone :D

He's had a great year, but over Lebron? I wanna know what's that fine **** that you've been smoking OP.

Nobody would take lebron over Harden I haven't seen one person argue this.

If it was for the next 10 years you are looking at a 38 year old Lebron vs a 35 year old Harden. I believe Lebron's body will deteriorate quicker and he is 3-4 years older not sure of the exact numbers.

PatsSoxKnicks
12-15-2014, 02:14 AM
When you combine defense, and efficiency, this is a no-brainer.

LeBron is probably coasting a little bit so far this year, and we know he has had a sore knee.

But Harden's entire game is driving the paint and getting fouled and hitting some three's. While that's great to have someone on your team do that well, and you can put up some great numbers that way....I would rather have the all-around beast in LeBron.

Now, would I rather have Durant, or someone else over LeBron is another discussion, and I made another thread for that. There won't be many people to choose Harden here, and it'll probably mostly be Harden/Rocket fans any way.

Probably coasting? He is coasting. Or he's just declined on defense to the point where he's below average on defense. Though his RPM is good, his other defensive metrics aren't. Most of them are quite poor except forcing turnovers and getting deflections.

Harden's been better this year- flat out. He's been more efficient and his defense has improved to the point where it's not weighing him down as much anymore (see this article: http://www.vantagesports.com/#story/VIY6qSkAAC93XrOz/james-harden-is-truly-an-impactful-two-way-player). Meanwhile, Lebron's defense has regressed to the point of being below average.

Now is Lebron saving himself for the playoffs? Maybe and I'd definitely take Lebron in the playoffs over Harden. But so far this year, Harden has outplayed Lebron. That's not really even debatable. Most of the all-in one advanced stats back this up- RPM, BPM, PER, Win Shares, etc.

Although to be honest, this thread is kinda stupid. No one in the NBA would care about this question and to them, the idea of ranking players is frankly, irrelevant.

IBleedPurple
12-15-2014, 02:16 AM
Wut...the...****

ricky recon
12-15-2014, 02:30 AM
Harden has a far, far greater all around game than PSD gives him credit for. He's one of the better ball handlers and playmakers in the league, he produces well across the board, he's one of the bench crunch time scorers in the league and (despite popular belief among PSD posters), he's defending at a pretty solid level right now.

All that being said, if you asked me if I would rather sign Harden or Lebron to a 5-year contract right now, it's still pretty easily Lebron. Now if you're asking me who I'd rather have for the next decade, I'm probably taking Harden, because I think Lebron has maybe only 3-4 more years playing at this level before we see a pretty significant dropoff. Harden, meanwhile, could play at this level for another 8-9 seasons.

This is probably the worst post I have seen in some time.

JV35
12-15-2014, 02:46 AM
James Harden is playing like the best person in the NBA, and here's why:

Leads the league in scoring at 26.3 points a game
4th in the league for steals, he averages 2 every game
Amongst guards he's 3rd in the league for blocked shots, he averages 1.1 a game

If I had to start a franchise I would pick Harden. Mostly because he's still getting better. Did I mention he gets to line better than anyone in the NBA.

Based on this thread--I assume you would rather date Melissa McCarthy than Angelina Jolie?

moshy2
12-15-2014, 03:02 AM
I just think harden's younger, and is trying to get better each year.

I'd really hope so.


Last year his defense sucked. This year he's playing both ends of the floor at an all star level. Lebron is almost past his prime. Harden's ceiling hasn't been defined yet.

I respect everyone's opinion though. Lebron is obviously super talented, as well as Durrant

All-star on both sides? Offensively, I'm one of those people that really don't like his style, but there's no denying he puts up points and efficiently. A point is still a point no matter how you score it and he's one of the best right now at scoring. Defensively, he's improved but calm down on the all-star. Based on your OP I'm guessing you came to that conclusion because of his 2 steals a game and 1 block a game. While those are nice stats, that's not how you judge someone's defense. Can be very misleading.

To answer the obvious question, LeBron.

Baltoro
12-15-2014, 03:44 AM
Harden is balling out this year. He's on a total tear right now.

But the answer is Lebron and its not close.

tredigs
12-15-2014, 03:51 AM
Better players than Harden: Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Curry, CP3 and Anthony Davis.

Sean Moore
12-15-2014, 03:53 AM
Better players than Harden: Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Curry, CP3 and Anthony Davis.

Haha. Can't really argue with that.

ThuglifeJ
12-15-2014, 04:35 AM
Lol.


Yes


Stop.

Jenceman
12-15-2014, 04:35 AM
Um not even close

ILLUSIONIST^248
12-15-2014, 05:09 AM
Lebron is levels above harden, now excuse me while i go wash my hands for typing that.

SF8
12-15-2014, 05:40 AM
This question is freaking pointless.

Its like asking, would you rather get kicked in the balls or have your balls chopped off?

PurpleLynch
12-15-2014, 07:56 AM
Yes. He's declining,but he's still in the top 5 in this league,plus he gives a lot of things that Harden can't(and never will be able imo) provide to a team. I'd say Lebron can play to this level for two-three more years(given his beastly endurance).
And that's why I'd choose him over Harden.

jp611
12-15-2014, 09:52 AM
You also forgot to mention Harden doesn't play something called defense on opponents

2 stealz per game doe. 4th in the league.

Andrew32
12-15-2014, 09:58 AM
Hmm.
Lebron is already 30.
Harden is 25.

Lebron might start seriously declining in another 2-3 years while Harden will be in the middle of his Peak at that point.
Conflicted on this one.

pebloemer
12-15-2014, 10:01 AM
Id reather have LBJ, KD, and AD over Harden.

This.

I'd consider a couple others as well, but I'd take any of those 3 without thinking twice.

beasted86
12-15-2014, 10:01 AM
Shows how dumb you are. ..
It goes way over its head.
It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again.

mightybosstone
12-15-2014, 10:13 AM
This is probably the worst post I have seen in some time.

Okay Richard. Care to tango on the subject? If you're going to call someone out with a bold statement like that, you had better be able to back it up with some legitimate debate. Otherwise, that's a pretty pathetic, cowardly post. Then again, I would expect nothing less from you. I can't remember the last time you contributed anything of value to NBA forum or if you ever did in the first place.

mightybosstone
12-15-2014, 10:19 AM
Probably coasting? He is coasting. Or he's just declined on defense to the point where he's below average on defense. Though his RPM is good, his other defensive metrics aren't. Most of them are quite poor except forcing turnovers and getting deflections.

Harden's been better this year- flat out. He's been more efficient and his defense has improved to the point where it's not weighing him down as much anymore (see this article: http://www.vantagesports.com/#story/VIY6qSkAAC93XrOz/james-harden-is-truly-an-impactful-two-way-player). Meanwhile, Lebron's defense has regressed to the point of being below average.

Now is Lebron saving himself for the playoffs? Maybe and I'd definitely take Lebron in the playoffs over Harden. But so far this year, Harden has outplayed Lebron. That's not really even debatable. Most of the all-in one advanced stats back this up- RPM, BPM, PER, Win Shares, etc.

Although to be honest, this thread is kinda stupid. No one in the NBA would care about this question and to them, the idea of ranking players is frankly, irrelevant.

This. I don't think there is a GM in the league who would rather have Harden than Lebron for the next few seasons, because Lebron is an absolute behemoth in the playoffs. But Harden has undeniably played better basketball so far this season for a better basketball team dealing with a multitude of injuries in a much harder conference. If the season ended today, Harden would easily finish ahead of Lebron in any MVP voting and deservedly so.

(AGAIN, let me repeat that I would still rather have Lebron on my basketball team than Harden. I feel like if I don't say this in every post, I'm going to be bombarded with replies about blatant homerism.)

thenaj17
12-15-2014, 10:28 AM
I'll agree with that. But he's 3 titles behind Bron right now.

Why has nobody pointed this out as being wrong yet?

You do realise Heat lost to Dallas and Spurs during that 4 year run?

Anyway, to the OP...LeBron by a landslide. I would pick at least 5 players before Harden at this point including 2 old teammates.

koreancabbage
12-15-2014, 10:32 AM
I'd pick Kobe over Harden to start and NBA team RIGHT NOW.

That gives you my opinion on Harden :laugh:

...... Maybe a little too much hate tho.

hahahaha.

mightybosstone
12-15-2014, 10:34 AM
Better players than Harden: Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Curry, CP3 and Anthony Davis.

I'll buy Lebron, Durant, Paul and Davis. I still think Harden is at least as good or on par with Curry and Westbrook. Curry has statistically had the superior start to the season, but he also hasn't been asked to do as much as Harden. Put both players in similar circumstances and I think they'd post very similar statistical production albeit through very different styles of play.

koreancabbage
12-15-2014, 10:34 AM
Lebron is levels above harden, now excuse me while i go wash my hands for typing that.

no need. we get your hate for Lebron lovers. you can still like Lebron.

I'm sure its the same mutual feeling for Lebron lovers- they hate Kobe lovers, but can appreciate and applaud Kobe.

nycericanguy
12-15-2014, 10:50 AM
Hmm.
Lebron is already 30.
Harden is 25.

Lebron might start seriously declining in another 2-3 years while Harden will be in the middle of his Peak at that point.
Conflicted on this one.

doesn't matter... I'd take 5 more years from LBJ, than 10 from Harden. LBJ is just on a whole nother level. And when Harden isn't getting all the calls in the playoffs his game leaves a lot to be desired.

Better question would be, would you take 5 more years of LBJ or 10 of AD?

CluTcH_c1tY
12-15-2014, 11:42 AM
I'm a Rockets fan and I would select Lebron every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Harden is positioning himself as a top 5 player regardless of what PSD poster say I'm seeing a player grow into a special player than can do things we as Rockets fans haven't seen since Tmacs first 2 years with the Rockets.

beasted86
12-15-2014, 11:56 AM
I'll agree with that. But he's 3 titles behind Bron right now.


Bron does so much more. Harden will have to lead his team to 2 titles before I'd take him over Bron. There are the intangibles to consider, too. Bron led the Heat to 3 titles while Harden hasn't sniffed one.


Shows how dumb you are. ..


It goes way over its head.
It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again.


Why has nobody pointed this out as being wrong yet?

You do realise Heat lost to Dallas and Spurs during that 4 year run?

Anyway, to the OP...LeBron by a landslide. I would pick at least 5 players before Harden at this point including 2 old teammates.
I think some of us get it

Daze9900
12-15-2014, 12:50 PM
Landslide in favor of Lebron, next topic please.

Lebron hater here btw.

Same here this was one of the worst threads I've seen on here in awhile. Harden is balling and give him props for that. Lets not act like if anyone was starting a franchise he would come up 1st. No one is taking him over Lebron, Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry etc...

SouthSideRookie
12-15-2014, 01:44 PM
Same here this was one of the worst threads I've seen on here in awhile. Harden is balling and give him props for that. Lets not act like if anyone was starting a franchise he would come up 1st. No one is taking him over Lebron, Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry etc...

Lebron and KD are on a tier of their own. After that its Harden, Curry and a few others. And for the love of God, quit saying Anthony is better or as good as Harden.

edit: just realized you meant Anthony Davis. On Davis, it'll be interesting to see how soon he can guide the Pelicans to a playoff birth.

Vinylman
12-15-2014, 01:52 PM
Okay Richard. Care to tango on the subject? If you're going to call someone out with a bold statement like that, you had better be able to back it up with some legitimate debate. Otherwise, that's a pretty pathetic, cowardly post. Then again, I would expect nothing less from you. I can't remember the last time you contributed anything of value to NBA forum or if you ever did in the first place.

sometimes post like yours don't deserve a well thought out response because it is absurd on its face...

mightybosstone
12-15-2014, 03:35 PM
sometimes post like yours don't deserve a well thought out response because it is absurd on its face...

How so? Again, it's pretty pathetic to say a response doesn't deserve a legitimate debate and then refuse to admit why. I've seen people post ridiculous things on this forum, but at least I have the balls to tell them why it's ridiculous. If you can't prove why something is absurd, then you have no right to call something absurd and should just not say anything at all.

Sly Guy
12-15-2014, 03:48 PM
Landslide in favor of Lebron, next topic please.

Lebron hater here btw.


+1

Vinylman
12-15-2014, 06:07 PM
How so? Again, it's pretty pathetic to say a response doesn't deserve a legitimate debate and then refuse to admit why. I've seen people post ridiculous things on this forum, but at least I have the balls to tell them why it's ridiculous. If you can't prove why something is absurd, then you have no right to call something absurd and should just not say anything at all.

exhibit A... the bully enters

raiderposting
12-15-2014, 06:38 PM
I don't want to type my actual thinking On this because I'll get banned.

But I would pick Lebron.....

Crackadalic
12-15-2014, 06:56 PM
Lebron for me

Lebron still gives me efficient scoring, rebounding, passing and can still guard 5 positions even though he isn't as good on the end as he used to be. Lebron can still do this for another 6-7 years with 3-4 at MVP level

koreancabbage
12-15-2014, 06:58 PM
exhibit A... the bully enters

how is that bullying?

xnick5757
12-15-2014, 07:31 PM
i honestly might take harden


if i got to pick from all the players he would probably be #4 though

Goose17
12-15-2014, 07:43 PM
Lebron.

Harden isn't close to Lebrons level. He's a great player but he's no Kobe, Lebron, MJ caliber guy. Sorry to anyone that thought he was. The guy is Gilbert Arenas tier. Not Lebron James tier.

Avenged
12-15-2014, 09:16 PM
Lebron 10/10 times...

Raps18-19 Champ
12-15-2014, 09:25 PM
Lol is this real?

mightybosstone
12-15-2014, 10:13 PM
exhibit A... the bully enters
It's not bullying to suggest that you should be able to back up your argument with evidence and have a civil debate about something. It's bullying to suggest someone's opinion that's different from yours is invalid without ever considering their point of view or even considering whether you even have evidence to support your own. That's the very epitome of intolerance and ignorance.

PurpleLynch
12-16-2014, 02:49 PM
exhibit A... the bully enters

Bully? :rolleyes:

ichitownclowni
12-16-2014, 02:58 PM
Why is this even an open thread?

mike_noodles
12-16-2014, 03:08 PM
I don't even like Lebron, and I find this a ridiculous question. It's Lebron, any other answer is wrong, period.

Verbal Christ
12-16-2014, 04:14 PM
Ask this question again in 5 years especially if James Edward Harden Jr continues to improve like he has.

Vinylman
12-16-2014, 05:42 PM
Ask this question again in 5 years especially if James Edward Harden Jr continues to improve like he has.

and the answer will be Thon Maker

Vinylman
12-16-2014, 05:48 PM
It's not bullying to suggest that you should be able to back up your argument with evidence and have a civil debate about something. It's bullying to suggest someone's opinion that's different from yours is invalid without ever considering their point of view or even considering whether you even have evidence to support your own. That's the very epitome of intolerance and ignorance.

i wasn't making any argument... i responded to your post on why the other poster probably didn't waste his time responding...

You have every right to your opinion... doesn't mean ANYONE has to give a fcuk what it is... nor do they owe you an explanation on why they think it is garbage...

mightybosstone
12-16-2014, 06:10 PM
i wasn't making any argument... i responded to your post on why the other poster probably didn't waste his time responding...

You have every right to your opinion... doesn't mean ANYONE has to give a fcuk what it is... nor do they owe you an explanation on why they think it is garbage...

They don't. But why even post that at all? It's just a chicken **** move. If you're just going to call out someone's opinion for being "garbage," but can't engage them in a legitimate discussion, just do everyone a favor and don't say anything in the first place.

I'm kinda tired of this conversation, though. It's off topic and it's not adding anything to the thread whatsoever.

RateSports
12-16-2014, 07:31 PM
I'll do what someone should have done a long time ago.


/thread

Tony_Starks
12-16-2014, 08:30 PM
This could be a legit question if you said Lebron vs like KD or someone in that tier but James Harden? That's a insult.

ThuglifeJ
12-16-2014, 10:37 PM
Lebron.

Harden isn't close to Lebrons level. He's a great player but he's no Kobe, Lebron, MJ caliber guy. Sorry to anyone that thought he was. The guy is Gilbert Arenas tier. Not Lebron James tier.

He is a lot like a Gilbert Arenas. Not that that's a bad thing just who he reminds me of now that you say that

Ezio
12-16-2014, 11:02 PM
Ask this question again in 5 years especially if James Edward Harden Jr continues to improve like he has.

Okay but then Lebron would be around 35? What would be he point in even asking? Maybe instead asking if you would take Davis over Harden or something

Kyben36
12-16-2014, 11:51 PM
NO brainer lebron, i would have looked at the age, but IMo, you can not win with HArden, ever, his defense is too terrible. you cant win playing 5 on 4.

alexander_37
12-17-2014, 12:15 PM
Okay but then Lebron would be around 35? What would be he point in even asking? Maybe instead asking if you would take Davis over Harden or something

At least it's a debate then... Harden Vs. Lebron now isn't even thread worthy.

Maybe a question like who would you rather sign to an 8 or 10 year contract. That's kind of interesting.

northsider
12-17-2014, 11:58 PM
I just think harden's younger, and is trying to get better each year. Last year his defense sucked. This year he's playing both ends of the floor at an all star level. Lebron is almost past his prime. Harden's ceiling hasn't been defined yet.

I respect everyone's opinion though. Lebron is obviously super talented, as well as Durrant

Lebrons size, ability, and game style kind've go against the grain with people talking about his age.

Even when he slows down his size alone makes him impossible to stop when driving. He has a smooth as ice jumper and can knock em down anywhere on the court efficiently. There is so many facets to his game I think you'd be crazy to think this guy isn't going to dominate the NBA for allot longer then most nba stars ever would. You just can't build a guy his size with his athleticism and finesse.

With that said it's Lebron no matter the years at hand. Harden is a great player, Lebron is one of the greatest of all time.

blahblahyoutoo
12-18-2014, 12:38 AM
Shows how dumb you are. ..

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?880961-rondo-is-shooting-30-from-the-charity-stripe-this-season-THIRTY-PER-CENT!&p=29346479#post29346479

more ignant than dumb me thinks, but you are the last person in this forum to call someone out on their perceived lack of intelligence.

ricky recon
12-18-2014, 12:49 AM
Okay Richard. Care to tango on the subject? If you're going to call someone out with a bold statement like that, you had better be able to back it up with some legitimate debate. Otherwise, that's a pretty pathetic, cowardly post. Then again, I would expect nothing less from you. I can't remember the last time you contributed anything of value to NBA forum or if you ever did in the first place.

You can post all the statistics in the world and it doesn't change the fact LeBron is the greatest basketball player at the world, and James Harden is an abysmal defender. The Heat started out 9-8 LeBron's first year, and guess what? They went to the Finals that year and the next three years. He's a once in a generation talent, and he'll go down as one of the best ever.

Give all the numbers you want about, but once he can get his team out of the first round, then we can maybe talk about compare them, but you're comparing two guys in different realms.

Give me the contender for five-ish years over a decade of a one and done.

Get real.

mightybosstone
12-18-2014, 01:24 AM
You can post all the statistics in the world and it doesn't change the fact LeBron is the greatest basketball player at the world, and James Harden is an abysmal defender. The Heat started out 9-8 LeBron's first year, and guess what? They went to the Finals that year and the next three years. He's a once in a generation talent, and he'll go down as one of the best ever.

Give all the numbers you want about, but once he can get his team out of the first round, then we can maybe talk about compare them, but you're comparing two guys in different realms.

Give me the contender for five-ish years over a decade of a one and done.

Get real.

Did you even read what I said in my post, though? I said that I would easily pick Lebron over Harden over the next five years. The only reason I might take Harden over Lebron over a 10-year span is because Harden is five years younger and doesn't have nearly the mileage on his legs as Lebron does.

I feel like you just scanned my post, saw me say something positive about Harden and then responded in anger without actually reading the whole thing.

ricky recon
12-18-2014, 01:32 AM
Did you even read what I said in my post, though? I said that I would easily pick Lebron over Harden over the next five years. The only reason I might take Harden over Lebron over a 10-year span is because Harden is five years younger and doesn't have nearly the mileage on his legs as Lebron does.

I feel like you just scanned my post, saw me say something positive about Harden and then responded in anger without actually reading the whole thing.

Well I disagree with your reasoning behind getting 10 years of a top 10-ish player vs. 5 years of a once in a generation player, to say the least.

flea
12-18-2014, 01:34 AM
Lebrons size, ability, and game style kind've go against the grain with people talking about his age.

Even when he slows down his size alone makes him impossible to stop when driving. He has a smooth as ice jumper and can knock em down anywhere on the court efficiently. There is so many facets to his game I think you'd be crazy to think this guy isn't going to dominate the NBA for allot longer then most nba stars ever would. You just can't build a guy his size with his athleticism and finesse.

With that said it's Lebron no matter the years at hand. Harden is a great player, Lebron is one of the greatest of all time.

Disagree, he has a few spots he's obviously practiced hard at but he does not have a good jumper and I doubt he ever will. For his career he has 46% of his shot attempts within 10 feet, and his efficiency in Miami was largely driven by raising that number even higher (and improving 3 point shot selection).

To give you an idea of how ineffective he is in a big chunk of the floor, he attempts only about 30% of his shots in the midrange over the last few years (34% career) and shoots about 38% from there.

For contrast, Durant has 42% of his shots in his career in the midrange and shoots it about at a 42% clip. Kobe about 45% of his shots for his career come there (more later in his career) and shoots it about 42% rate. Even Tim Duncan takes about 38% the last few years in midrange (35% career) and hits them at about 40% rates. Lebron shoots it with similar rates to a guy like Zach Randolph (32% of his shots come in midrange for career and he hits them at about a 39% clip).

Lebron's will be an interesting decline because he'll be at a crossroads at some point as a poor shooting forward who profiles better defensively as a SF. I wouldn't put it past him to turn himself into a nice role player like Vince Carter has by working hard at spotting up a few areas of the floor and being a secondary ballhandler as a point forward. But I don't think he's going to be playing Finals games as the best player on his team at 33-34 like Jordan or Malone. And I certainly don't think he's going to be anchoring teams on both ends of the floor like Duncan or Kareem in his mid to late 30s.

slashsnake
12-18-2014, 02:29 AM
Disagree, he has a few spots he's obviously practiced hard at but he does not have a good jumper and I doubt he ever will. For his career he has 46% of his shot attempts within 10 feet, and his efficiency in Miami was largely driven by raising that number even higher (and improving 3 point shot selection).

To give you an idea of how ineffective he is in a big chunk of the floor, he attempts only about 30% of his shots in the midrange over the last few years (34% career) and shoots about 38% from there.

For contrast, Durant has 42% of his shots in his career in the midrange and shoots it about at a 42% clip. Kobe about 45% of his shots for his career come there (more later in his career) and shoots it about 42% rate. Even Tim Duncan takes about 38% the last few years in midrange (35% career) and hits them at about 40% rates. Lebron shoots it with similar rates to a guy like Zach Randolph (32% of his shots come in midrange for career and he hits them at about a 39% clip).



Not sure where you get the 38% FG percentage (over the recent years). Taking a look at Lebron since leaving Cleveland the first time...

10% of his shots from 10-16 feet at a 43.6% clip
22.5% of his shots from 16-3 with a 41.4% clip
18.5% of his shots from 3 with a 36.9% clip.

Vs. Kobe at that same age...

14% at 44.4%
29% at 41%
23% at 34.9%

Or vs. Durant (not old enough but for his career..

18% @ 43%
23% @ 41.8%
23% @ 37.6%

So efficiency wise, he makes about the same exact percentages as those two and you are looking at amazing jump shooters there. I mean Jordan didn't have that jumpshot until his comeback Shoot he was the one in the mid 30's there who doesn't compare. No Lebron doesn't shoot as often from there because he takes it to the rim for easier higher percentage shots. But to say he isn't efficient when he shoots from there is just not true.

And Tim Duncan... You might want to recheck your numbers there. Lebron shot the same rate of mid ranger's as duncan (actually slightly more) with a better percentage in every area at the same age.


And I'd say that taking most inside shots did help his efficiency in Miami.. But so did becoming a MUCH better jumpshooter.

32% to 43% from 10-16
38% to 41.8% from 16-3
33% to 36.9% from 3

Those are HUGE jumps. Feel free to find me a guy had those kinds of changes of 5 years before and 5 years after if you aren't impressed. You want to know why he became a 54% shooter from a 47% one? It wasn't 5% more shots at the basket. It was becoming a MUCH more efficient jump shooter.

flea
12-18-2014, 03:15 AM
Not sure where you get the 38% FG percentage (over the recent years). Taking a look at Lebron since leaving Cleveland the first time...

You're right I looked at the wrong column.


And Tim Duncan... You might want to recheck your numbers there. Lebron shot the same rate of mid ranger's as duncan (actually slightly more) with a better percentage in every area at the same age.

Duncan shot about 35% of his FGA in midrange through age 29 and hit them at pretty much a 40% rate. Since then he's only shot them 2% more frequently at a slightly better rate.

Discarding everything before the Miami years (so really just a 4 year sample of his prime), Lebron takes 33% in midrange for about a 42% rate. Do that for Duncan from 08-12 and he shot 40% of his shots in the midrange for 42% rate. Career, peak, any way you cut it Duncan is more of a threat out there, but it is closer.



And I'd say that taking most inside shots did help his efficiency in Miami.. But so did becoming a MUCH better jumpshooter.

32% to 43% from 10-16
38% to 41.8% from 16-3
33% to 36.9% from 3

Those are HUGE jumps. Feel free to find me a guy had those kinds of changes of 5 years before and 5 years after if you aren't impressed. You want to know why he became a 54% shooter from a 47% one? It wasn't 5% more shots at the basket. It was becoming a MUCH more efficient jump shooter.

Yeah he got better at the elbow jumpers, corner 3s, and walk-up 3s on the wings, and I'd be willing to bet playing with 4 jumpshooters on the court for 80% of the game helped him a lot in doing that. The biggest jump was for the area he only shoots the ball 10% of the time, though.

And of course there's the issue we'll never settle until it happens - whether he takes less midrange shots because he'll miss them or because he can get better shots. Most defenders sag away from him and he has a pretty slow release, so of course I'm going to argue he'd miss them. There's some evidence for that since most teams want to make him a jumpshooter (worked for the Mavs and for the Spurs in '13).

But we won't really know until he's there, and the Spurs had success in playing him more physically and tight than most teams tend to do, though it's easier to do that when you have a HOF rim protector. I've seen a guy who has worked hard at getting to his spots with his jumpshot and making them when he needs to.

Can he produce the same efficiency on the kinds of volume that Kobe and Durant have been doing for their whole careers? I'm less certain than you, because for all the improvement he has made to his jumper he takes virtually the exact same number of shots beyond 10 feet now as when he did in Cleveland the first time. The day is soon coming when he won't be able to take 45%+ of his shots within 10 feet - either because he chooses not to or because his body won't let him (a la Wade with injuries).

Vinylman
12-18-2014, 06:13 PM
They don't. But why even post that at all? It's just a chicken **** move. If you're just going to call out someone's opinion for being "garbage," but can't engage them in a legitimate discussion, just do everyone a favor and don't say anything in the first place.

I'm kinda tired of this conversation, though. It's off topic and it's not adding anything to the thread whatsoever.

LMFAO


Like i said... the condescending elitist bully enters

FlashBolt
12-19-2014, 02:50 AM
This is stupid. Only people voting for Harden are Houston fans and Kobe fanboys.. Here is the very funny part about LeBron.

we can all agree he's having a horrible season thus far. From last season, this was a huge dropoff considering what we know he is capable of. Yet, let's look at his numbers:

25.4 PPG
7.6 APG
5.4 RPG
50% FG

These numbers are BETTER than Stephen Curry -- who we can agree is the leading MVP right now.
Stephen Curry's best season=this season=LeBron's playing really bad season..

The expectations LeBron put on himself is unreal. Him and KD had set the bar so high that whenever some sort of decline happens, we immediately raise the concern that they are done.. I'll admit, LeBron is probably going to be on the decline from now on but it's not that he's declining as the best player. He's declining to the rest of the league's level. I'm not even going to mention Davis.. Call me a hater but until this guy translates his team to playoffs>wins>contention, he's not an MVP. he cannot lead a team atm.

just look at those numbers and not think of Lebron.. for any player, that is AMAZING. for Lebron, it's an average season. Jesus.