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View Full Version : Cespedes to DET for Porcello



AI
12-11-2014, 10:47 AM
@CJNitkowski: Told Cespedes to Detroit, Porcello to Boston is done.

Soxfan85
12-11-2014, 10:47 AM
@beckjason
Tigers getting Cespedes from Boston for Porcello, according to source. Not sure if anyone else included to Detroit. @cjnitkowski had 1st.

Tryptamine
12-11-2014, 10:58 AM
Good move for you guys. Gave up a piece in Cespedes that wasn't even going to be in your line up for a solid middle of the rotation pitcher who can get you a draft pick after the season if he wont extend.

Shaiza
12-11-2014, 10:58 AM
Good deal. Would like to see the prospect going Detroit's way, but I think it was a move we anticipated a bit.

AI
12-11-2014, 10:59 AM
@jonmorosi: #Tigers will obtain minor-league pitcher from #RedSox in Porcello-Cespedes deal, source says. @CJNitkowski first reported trade.

Station 13
12-11-2014, 11:01 AM
Gonna guess Keith Couch.

Sweet_Caroline
12-11-2014, 11:04 AM
Let's play "Guess The Minor League Pitcher".

I say Chris Hernandez. Or maybe Noe Ramirez.

Soxfan85
12-11-2014, 11:07 AM
@alexspeier
Sox will send two additional players to Sox with Cespedes for Porcello.

tc2deuce
12-11-2014, 11:13 AM
Just waiting on an ACE now.......
1)____
2) Porcello
3) Buchholz for a half year bc we all know he will be injured
4) Miley
5)Kelly

homie564
12-11-2014, 11:13 AM
Love this. Porcello is a guy I've always been a fan of. We still need at Least 1 more starter though, I'm sure most of us would prefer 2

AI
12-11-2014, 11:14 AM
@jonmorosi: One source says #Tigers will obtain a starting pitcher from #Reds.

Probably Latos or Leake.

AI
12-11-2014, 11:16 AM
@alexspeier: Both players Sox are sending to Tigers are minor leaguers. Worth noting, though: Cespedes can't glean a qual offer comp pick. Porcello can.

We can either extend him, he's very young, or offer a QO and get a pick. Sounds good to me.

corky831
12-11-2014, 11:18 AM
Seems like too many 3-5 type pitchers in our rotation with Porcello, Miley, Buchholz, and Kelly. Could Buchholz or Kelly be part of another package deal? Possibly. That....or Kelly to the pen. I don't think we are done finding a 1 and 2. They did a nice job grabbing a 3 and 4.

wolf82
12-11-2014, 11:19 AM
So when are we actually gonna get a #1 and #2 starter we have nothing but 3-5 starters

clay buchholz - who will be #4 starter until he cuts his finger on a letter opener and lose him for 4 months

Joe Kelly - A good Number 3

RicK Porcello - Another #3

Wade Miley - #4-5 Probably end up +5 ERA

Anthony Ranaudo - #4-5 Too many homers given up last year.

They offered Masterson a one year deal (another #4 starter).

Unless they are gonna get a #2 like Shields, and trade for a #1 we are in for a Long season.

Soxfan85
12-11-2014, 11:19 AM
@alexspeier
Alex Wilson is one of the two players going to Tigers. The other is a lower-levels pitcher.

CubsRule08
12-11-2014, 11:21 AM
Tigers also acquiring a SP from the Reds as well...may possibly turn into a 3-team deal according to Jon Morosi

SirHizz
12-11-2014, 11:24 AM
So when are we actually gonna get a #1 and #2 starter we have nothing but 3-5 starters


Unless they are gonna get a #2 like Shields, and trade for a #1 we are in for a Long season.

At this point I wouldn't even want Cueto. 2 pitchers becoming FA's (maybe Clay on top of it) at the end of the year would be tough.
Must be someone with some kind of security, but Shields in a rotation like this feels kinda light at the top of the rotation as well.
I seriously have no idea what they are trying to do with the pitching.

BGeer091
12-11-2014, 11:28 AM
I like this move. I think Porcello and Miley are significant upgrades in the rotation. I feel like instead of having guys that should be starting pitchers we have 2 legit starters who will eat innings. I personally view both Miley and Porcello as legit 3's and both could become solid 2's.

wolf82
12-11-2014, 11:29 AM
At this point I wouldn't even want Cueto. 2 pitchers becoming FA's (maybe Clay on top of it) at the end of the year would be tough.
Must be someone with some kind of security, but Shields in a rotation like this feels kinda light at the top of the rotation as well.
I seriously have no idea what they are trying to do with the pitching.

Me neither, I hope they stay away from Hamels. Not worth the prospects for a guy who has pitched in nothing but the NL. I don't want them giving up Owens Swihart or Johnson.

StryderSox
12-11-2014, 11:32 AM
So when are we actually gonna get a #1 and #2 starter we have nothing but 3-5 starters

clay buchholz - who will be #4 starter until he cuts his finger on a letter opener and lose him for 4 months

Joe Kelly - A good Number 3

RicK Porcello - Another #3

Wade Miley - #4-5 Probably end up +5 ERA

Anthony Ranaudo - #4-5 Too many homers given up last year.

They offered Masterson a one year deal (another #4 starter).

Unless they are gonna get a #2 like Shields, and trade for a #1 we are in for a Long season.

I completely disagree here. A rotation of Porcello, Buchholz, Miley and Kelly with an addition of Shields at the top and potentially Masterson on a one year deal for depth is good enough to be competitive. We aren't going to win an Championships and might not even make the playoffs but it probably puts us in the race and allows us another year to explore what Owens and Rodriguez might have to offer as well as other options in next years FA class. It also gives us the option to go after a true ace at the deadline if we are in the mix at that point.

I would much rather go this route then move any of Betts, XB, Swihart or Owens for Hamels and then find out that we traded away 10+ years of MVP/Cy Young talent at an undervalue salary hit.

papipapsmanny
12-11-2014, 11:40 AM
I really think they are setting themselves up to trade Kelly as part of a package for a good SP (Cueto, Hamels, Zimmerman... that type_

ruckus16969
12-11-2014, 11:43 AM
Hopefully this cancels out the Miley trade

-Lavigne43-
12-11-2014, 11:44 AM
Good trade. That's about as much as you can expect in return for Cespedes. The last prospect is probably someone raw with upside. That kind of makes up for the draft pick compensation.

theGhost-isGone
12-11-2014, 11:53 AM
Seems like too many 3-5 type pitchers in our rotation with Porcello, Miley, Buchholz, and Kelly. Could Buchholz or Kelly be part of another package deal? Possibly. That....or Kelly to the pen. I don't think we are done finding a 1 and 2. They did a nice job grabbing a 3 and 4.
I think one of Miley/Porcello will surprise, could turn out #2 type production. But if one disappoints, it could be crippling to our rotation.

If we move one of Clay/Kelly, I'd prefer it be Clay. I trust Kelly to develop more than Clay, doesn't matter which holds more value. We can add prospects for a better return either way.

j-bay
12-11-2014, 11:54 AM
Good desl. Another good thing about this deal is that if Porcello does good and we want to bring him back, I think he would want to stay due to that house in Vermont.

Green_Monster
12-11-2014, 11:55 AM
I like this deal. Now we need to go and find our #1 pitcher.

Station 13
12-11-2014, 11:58 AM
if the skanks are not in Scherzer, I want him here.

j-bay
12-11-2014, 12:00 PM
I just saw an interesting tweet saying Porcello is going from a bad IF to an average. Was Detroit's IF that bad and if so could this move improve his #s.

RedSoxtober
12-11-2014, 12:03 PM
Obviously I like the deal since I had a version of it in my sim (overlooked the need for some minor league depth to compensate for the lack of QO compensation to Cespedes). I'd hope, a little, that DET's need might trump the value. I won't be surprised if the minor league arm is the Raul Alcantara type 100MPH that we seem to deal every year that we are buying for a playoff push.


At this point I wouldn't even want Cueto. 2 pitchers becoming FA's (maybe Clay on top of it) at the end of the year would be tough.
Must be someone with some kind of security, but Shields in a rotation like this feels kinda light at the top of the rotation as well.

I don't know that two potential FAs at the end of 2015 is necessarily a bad thing even with the uncertainty of Clay (whom they could pick up just to avoid the problem). I like them going to the market in next year's FA class. They won't beat out NYY for Price but that leaves them as one of the few big money teams with a pitching need in a pitching-rich market.


Me neither, I hope they stay away from Hamels. Not worth the prospects for a guy who has pitched in nothing but the NL. I don't want them giving up Owens Swihart or Johnson.
I think NL stats tend to overstate pitching ability, especially in the NL West with their huge parks (except the launching pad in ARI), but there's no reason to ignore a guy just because he's been in the NL. I mean, we'd take Baumgarner, Cain, or Kershaw, right?

I agree with your about Hamels in particular though. His interleague stats are not great. I also don't really trust him to lead a staff either. He's generally been second fiddle to Lee, Halladay, etc.


I completely disagree here. A rotation of Porcello, Buchholz, Miley and Kelly with an addition of Shields at the top and potentially Masterson on a one year deal for depth is good enough to be competitive. We aren't going to win an Championships and might not even make the playoffs but it probably puts us in the race and allows us another year to explore what Owens and Rodriguez might have to offer as well as other options in next years FA class. It also gives us the option to go after a true ace at the deadline if we are in the mix at that point.
+1 though I don't see Masterson joining the rotation and giving us 6 SP.


I really think they are setting themselves up to trade Kelly as part of a package for a good SP (Cueto, Hamels, Zimmerman... that type_

I won't be too upset pending the deals but I have a feeling that this is more your desire speaking. It probably breaks along the decisions of Shields and Masterson. I REALLY hope that, if we're involved with Shields, we're talking bigger dollars for a shorter deal.

mexalcahuete101
12-11-2014, 12:04 PM
His numbers will improve, he will be a solid 3 with the potential to be a number 2. Porcello has been in the major for 5 seasons now and is improving every year. You guys will be happy with him

AI
12-11-2014, 12:06 PM
It was reported a few days ago that Porcello was building a house in Vermont and would "love" to end up with Boston if traded. I like our chances of re-signing him.

wolf82
12-11-2014, 12:07 PM
I completely disagree here. A rotation of Porcello, Buchholz, Miley and Kelly with an addition of Shields at the top and potentially Masterson on a one year deal for depth is good enough to be competitive. We aren't going to win an Championships and might not even make the playoffs but it probably puts us in the race and allows us another year to explore what Owens and Rodriguez might have to offer as well as other options in next years FA class. It also gives us the option to go after a true ace at the deadline if we are in the mix at that point.

I would much rather go this route then move any of Betts, XB, Swihart or Owens for Hamels and then find out that we traded away 10+ years of MVP/Cy Young talent at an undervalue salary hit.

Like I said I don't want them giving up Owens Swihart or Johnson etc, for Hamels. But, we do have tons of position players blocked by Panda, Boegarts, and Ramirez.

Cecchini, Middlebrooks, Bradley, and Merrero are now blocked. We also have Ranaudo, and Barnes, and Victorino who will needs to be moved before he becomes a problem. Hopefully they can include Buccholtz in a deal. The Red Sox seem to have lost faith in him, and he should be moved.

If Shields is signed and our #1 i wouldn't mind, but I'd still would like them to get another starter like Medlen, or Beachy I know they are both recovering from TJ but they add depth, and would come cheap. If Medlen and Beachy recover to what they were in Atlanta they are a steal.

Station 13
12-11-2014, 12:08 PM
His numbers will improve, he will be a solid 3 with the potential to be a number 2. Porcello has been in the major for 5 seasons now and is improving every year. You guys will be happy with him

You guys should like Cespedes too. He has his faults, but you can't denied a 116ops+ hitter with productions.

mexalcahuete101
12-11-2014, 12:09 PM
You guys should like Cespedes too. He has his faults, but you can't denied a 116ops+ hitter with productions.

I've always been a fan since his YouTube video haha

ruckus16969
12-11-2014, 12:10 PM
I hope there is a bigger piece to this puzzle not named Shields

AI
12-11-2014, 12:11 PM
Miggy-VMart-Cespedes middle of the order is insane.

theGhost-isGone
12-11-2014, 12:14 PM
I just saw an interesting tweet saying Porcello is going from a bad IF to an average. Was Detroit's IF that bad and if so could this move improve his #s.
Yeah they weren't that great on D in the infield over the past couple seasons, set aside Iglesias of course. With him being primarily a GB pitcher, I would imagine he would do well relying on a better-than-average infield.

Just a quick look at the splits, last year alone he allowed 11 runners due to error. Not saying those are directly correlated to infield d, but with Kinsler and Cabrera on the same side of the diamond I can imagine some grounders found a hole a time or 12.

His FIP is respectable, so I figure we will see him do well as a mid rotation guy who you can rely on to take the mound every 5th day.

-Lavigne43-
12-11-2014, 12:16 PM
Farrell definitely has influence on the pitchers we acquire. He loves these low walk, strike throwing types. It's why he loves Workman so much, it's why we got Mujica last year. Cherington clearly prefers these types too. Shields completely fits this type of pitcher that we have been acquiring.

mexalcahuete101
12-11-2014, 12:17 PM
Miggy-VMart-Cespedes middle of the order is insane.
Add in jd Martinez, that is if he continue his production from last year.

bagwell368
12-11-2014, 12:27 PM
Good deal for both teams.

We will not get a clear #1 and #2. We will get one such guy, and hope one of the 3's has a #2 type year.

The AL East isn't your fathers AL East. TB is folding up the tent, Skanks are old and creaky with holes, Jays are not quite put together to run at the title. O's have taken some body shots since they finished up their season. We get someone better than Shields, and Most of the older players don't fall off a cliff, then we could be #1-2, and should be.

theGhost-isGone
12-11-2014, 12:29 PM
Farrell definitely has influence on the pitchers we acquire. He loves these low walk, strike throwing types. It's why he loves Workman so much, it's why we got Mujica last year. Cherington clearly prefers these types too. Shields completely fits this type of pitcher that we have been acquiring.
Good points -Lav- I hadn't even thought about it. Makes sense, I just don't want to fork over $100M for Shields personally.

papipapsmanny
12-11-2014, 12:31 PM
Good deal for both teams.

We will not get a clear #1 and #2. We will get one such guy, and hope one of the 3's has a #2 type year.

The AL East isn't your fathers AL East. TB is folding up the tent, Skanks are old and creaky with holes, Jays are not quite put together to run at the title. O's have taken some body shots since they finished up their season. We get someone better than Shields, and Most of the older players don't fall off a cliff, then we could be #1-2, and should be.

If this is the case... which it very well could be. I think you really try and make a dominant bullpen. Our bullpen isn't too far off. I think putting Barnes there will serve him and us well.

bagwell368
12-11-2014, 12:32 PM
You guys should like Cespedes too. He has his faults, but you can't denied a 116ops+ hitter with productions.

Take off that rookie year and that OPS+ goes right down...

'13: 103
'14: 110

And he's a COF... not special at all except for his SLG. Not that many cheap HR and 2B in his new park. Glad to see Porcello coming here, and YC leaving.

homie564
12-11-2014, 12:34 PM
So when are we actually gonna get a #1 and #2 starter we have nothing but 3-5 starters

clay buchholz - who will be #4 starter until he cuts his finger on a letter opener and lose him for 4 months

Joe Kelly - A good Number 3

RicK Porcello - Another #3

Wade Miley - #4-5 Probably end up +5 ERA

Anthony Ranaudo - #4-5 Too many homers given up last year.

They offered Masterson a one year deal (another #4 starter).

Unless they are gonna get a #2 like Shields, and trade for a #1 we are in for a Long season.
Your analysis of those pitchers couldn't be further from the truth though...


Porcello is a good 3 with #2 upside
Miley is a great 4 with #3 upside
Kelly is a great 5 with #4 upside

Add in buccholz as a #3-4 with #1 upside if he stays healthy and has his head on right.

That rotation isn't too bad depending on what they put at the top. We realistically need 1 more pitcher... I agree that I prefer two but don't put all of your eggs into one basket here. If we can sign Scherzer or trade for a TORP we can go in on next year's class which is stacked with pitching. I'd rather honestly do nothing than sign Shields to a big contract. Take another year in the cellar and then sign Price/Cueto and another arm next year

bagwell368
12-11-2014, 12:35 PM
If this is the case... which it very well could be. I think you really try and make a dominant bullpen. Our bullpen isn't too far off. I think putting Barnes there will serve him and us well.

If XB can field SS, and big boy stays healthy, it's a good D infield. Add a low BB pen, and it could be pretty decent.

Norieaga
12-11-2014, 12:46 PM
Porcello had a really high BABIP due to Detroit's awful infield defense. He's a groundball pitcher, should improve his chances with our defense. Only SS is questionable, I'm confident that every other infield position can provide absolute defensive quality.

BGeer091
12-11-2014, 12:50 PM
Porcello had a really high BABIP due to Detroit's awful infield defense. He's a groundball pitcher, should improve his chances with our defense. Only SS is questionable, I'm confident that every other infield position can provide absolute defensive quality.

Yeah absolutely. We have 4 out of 5 infielders that are GG caliber. Napoli has been a very good 1st basemen. Pedroia obviously is the best defensive 2nd basemen in the game. Sandoval is also GG caliber. I guess Vazquez doesn't technically affect groundballs lol but he's GG too.

RedSoxtober
12-11-2014, 01:56 PM
Here's your additional minor leaguer: Gabe Speier (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=speier000gab). Yeah, who?


Tigers acquired OF Yoenis Cespedes, RHP Alex Wilson, and RHP Gabe Speier from the Red Sox for RHP Rick Porcello.

Cespedes will become the Tigers' new starting left fielder and should carry significant fantasy value batting in a lineup behind the likes of Ian Kinsler, Miguel Cabrera, Victor Martinez, and J.D. Martinez. Cespedes slashed .260/.301/.450 with 22 home runs and 100 RBI in 152 games this past season between Oakland Boston. He can become a free agent after 2015.

theGhost-isGone
12-11-2014, 02:04 PM
Here's your additional minor leaguer: Gabe Speier (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=speier000gab). Yeah, who?

Yeah when I saw it was a LHP I figured it wasn't Ball or Escobar, my guesses were between Britton, Speier and Diaz.

Soxfan85
12-11-2014, 03:30 PM
Question any chance the RS give him an extension if he performs like he did last year or better or will this be another player dump next year? I don't know who is agent is and I wouldn't mind giving him an extension.

AI
12-11-2014, 03:46 PM
Question any chance the RS give him an extension if he performs like he did last year or better or will this be another player dump next year? I don't know who is agent is and I wouldn't mind giving him an extension.

He's not a Boras client and I would like to think that the Sox would extend him. He can sign for 5 years then cash in again as a 30-31 year old .

j-bay
12-18-2014, 04:07 PM
@PeteAbe
#RedSox will have a press conference for Rick Porcello tomorrow at noon.

Alright guys. Does Rick become the first player to wear 21 since Clemens, or does it remain untouched.

Station 13
12-18-2014, 04:35 PM
@PeteAbe
#RedSox will have a press conference for Rick Porcello tomorrow at noon.

Alright guys. Does Rick become the first player to wear 21 since Clemens, or does it remain untouched.

Hopefully an extension can be done.

bagwell368
12-18-2014, 06:26 PM
Porcello had a really high BABIP due to Detroit's awful infield defense. He's a groundball pitcher, should improve his chances with our defense. Only SS is questionable, I'm confident that every other infield position can provide absolute defensive quality.

Until our 3B's corset stays fail... or his hips, knees, back, or legs give out.

Soxfan85
12-19-2014, 01:48 PM
@PeteAbe
Porcello, who wore 21 with the Tigers, will have No. 22 with the #RedSox.

j-bay
12-20-2014, 06:14 PM
Anybody think Rick could go 17-12 or 18-11?

RedSoxtober
12-20-2014, 07:06 PM
A 16-18 win season out of Porcello is not unrealistic if the offense performs well in the first year and Bogaerts displays anything approaching average defense at SS.

-Lavigne43-
12-20-2014, 10:55 PM
Who the hell knows or cares. Completely dependent on how the offense performs on the days he pitches. Anyone who throws 200 innings can have that record with good run support.

matnautico
12-21-2014, 02:41 AM
Anybody think Rick could go 17-12 or 18-11?

Winzzz? Really?

bagwell368
12-29-2014, 11:10 PM
I'm glad the noise on this being a bad deal died off. This is a good deal, with the potential to be excellent if Porcello extends. Cespedes is not someone we want to extend believe me.

Super.
01-05-2015, 10:26 AM
I'm glad the noise on this being a bad deal died off. This is a good deal, with the potential to be excellent if Porcello extends. Cespedes is not someone we want to extend believe me.

I think Cespedes is going to want big time money for not really being that great of a player