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View Full Version : Red Sox agree to trade for Wade Miley (Trade Official)



AI
12-10-2014, 10:53 PM
“@Ken_Rosenthal: #RedSox have agreement in principle for #DBacks’ Miley, sources tell me and @jonmorosi. AZ will get Webster, De La Rosa and a minor leaguer.”

Not thrilled about giving up Rubby to be perfectly honest; Don't care for Webster.

The Allen
12-10-2014, 10:57 PM
What the actual **** Ben? RDLR is going to be so much better than Miley, why...

Webster for Miley I would have been completely fine with, but this I am not happy at all.

Green_Monster
12-10-2014, 10:57 PM
At first look, I don't like this.

corky831
12-10-2014, 10:58 PM
What the ****??? Lmao hahaha what a joke of a trade!

win red sox
12-10-2014, 10:59 PM
terrible, terrible, terrible

homie564
12-10-2014, 11:00 PM
RDLR seems like a lot for Miley. He's a good pitcher though. Well see how it works out

j-bay
12-10-2014, 11:02 PM
Rubby not in the plans? Maybe adding 2 more pitchers?

AI
12-10-2014, 11:03 PM
It's likely that both Webster and Rubby end up as RP's, so I understand the purpose of the trade. Miley is a lefty innings eater who is under club-control for 3 more years. I'm not thrilled about giving up Rubby because I viewed him as a relief ace, and I'm crossing my fingers that the "unknown" minor leaguer is a nobody. This trade opens up a 40-man spot on the roster as well.

BGeer091
12-10-2014, 11:05 PM
I think I like this, because its the first of a few moves to improve our rotation. I hate the fact that we gave up Rubby.

homie564
12-10-2014, 11:07 PM
Rubby not in the plans? Maybe adding 2 more pitchers?

Must be. Hopefully it's Zimmerman/Cueto/Gray + another good player.

I agree with the fact that both end up as relivers though most likely. Many of the hopes for RDLR were far too high. Best case scenario he becomes a good closer imo. Which sucks to give up tbh... but it's not the end of the world. I don't love the deal but Miley has been good, is still relatively young, good peripherals, and is a lefty which will help. He's a really good option as the #4.

AI
12-10-2014, 11:09 PM
@brianmacp: With trade of De La Rosa in particular, however, it looks like the Red Sox will add *three* SPs this winter. No clear No. 5 otherwise.

Right now, this is where we stand...

#1 SP (?)
#2 SP (?)
Clay Buchholz
Wade Miley
Joe Kelly

StayOnBoard
12-10-2014, 11:10 PM
I admit I don't know Red Sox prospects like I know my own teams, but this feels like a solid deal for the Red Sox.

Was Rubby REALLY all that valuable? He felt like a solid 8th inning guy to me... I have no idea why Webster is so special either and I guess my decision on how this trade ends up depends on the 3rd piece going to the DBacks.

But Miley is a decent pitcher, a lefty who will eat tons of innings. Boston (as well as 95% of all teams in baseball) need a pitcher like this on their staff. It helps he has 3 years of control going with him as well, all at a reasonable salary.

-Lavigne43-
12-10-2014, 11:11 PM
Gross. I don't like Miley at all. I think Webster had the potential to be a really good RP, and Rubby had potential at all. Just based off my memory, Ben has a pretty bad trade record so far, minus the Dodgers trade of course. I think all of his trades have been bad.

bagwell368
12-10-2014, 11:14 PM
Potentially a good lefty 4th/passable 3rd SP that can throw 200 IP. Under arb control for 3 years. Bear in mind that his park in Arizona is a launching pad. He's got nerve and throws strikes (despite last years WHIP).

Webster is never going to cut it. RDLR is potentially a dominant pen guy and possibly a good SP, we'll see on him.

Don't walk the gang plank yet.

corky831
12-10-2014, 11:15 PM
He did well in the Miller trade.....that's about it. He does suck at trades though

BGeer091
12-10-2014, 11:17 PM
Potentially a good lefty 4th/passable 3rd SP that can throw 200 IP. Under arb control for 3 years. Bear in mind that his park in Arizona is a launching pad. He's got nerve and throws strikes (despite last years WHIP).

Webster is never going to cut it. RDLR is potentially a dominant pen guy and possibly a good SP, we'll see on him.

Don't walk the gang plank yet.

This is my take on it to.

homie564
12-10-2014, 11:18 PM
Gross. I don't like Miley at all. I think Webster had the potential to be a really good RP, and Rubby had potential at all. Just based off my memory, Ben has a pretty bad trade record so far, minus the Dodgers trade of course. I think all of his trades have been bad.

How can you say that without seeing the guy pitch yet? What's really not to like about miley? He's an upgrade on Rubby right now imo and has the potential to be a very good 4. He's a type of guy every winning team should have.

I don't love moving Rubby but he's likely destined for the pen. I think he going to be a great pen arm but give me a #4 starter who can pitch me into the 7th every game over the guy who takes on the next inning.

homie564
12-10-2014, 11:19 PM
He did well in the Miller trade.....that's about it. He does suck at trades though

Peavy too.

I also think the value on the lackey trade was huge.

Soxfan85
12-10-2014, 11:23 PM
I thought you guys didn't want to get rid of Ruby? I told you BC would do something desperately and everyone laughed at me. Now look

-Lavigne43-
12-10-2014, 11:23 PM
Potentially a good lefty 4th/passable 3rd SP that can throw 200 IP. Under arb control for 3 years. Bear in mind that his park in Arizona is a launching pad. He's got nerve and throws strikes (despite last years WHIP).

Webster is never going to cut it. RDLR is potentially a dominant pen guy and possibly a good SP, we'll see on him.

Don't walk the gang plank yet.

200 innings is great, but Miley's overall package is pretty meh, and I worry about the AL transition for pitchers like him. Now I feel like we have two meh SP with Kelly and Miley, and a completely undependable SP in Buchholz. Cespedes will get us a #3 type if we are lucky, and then we would need a front line pitcher to give us a decent rotation. I would have preferred the Cespedes+RDLR package for Porcello over this. It would take really bad judgement, but I wonder if Workman will get a real shot at the rotation given Farrell's love for him.

RedSoxtober
12-10-2014, 11:26 PM
RDLR was, I believe, a future closer for the Sox with his triple digit potential. He (and Workman) were more effective when they let it fly for one inning. I wanted him in the BP for the 7th inning this year and moving up next. Not happy to lose him.

Webster doesn't bother me quite as much. He's been a deer-in-the-headlights guy each time he's been on the mound. I do not see the RP that -Lav- sees at all; so far he's got a 7.14ERA, 1.17k/bb, .299/.343/.443 in his first three innings. He's uncomfortable when he gets on the mound.

Miley, ugh. I guess it's nice that he eats innings but watching his ERA (3.33 => 3.55 => 4.34) climb while run production has been declining across MLB is not exciting. I guess his FIP remaining constant just means that the defense behind him got worse? IDK, h/9, hr/9, bb/9 all on the rise since his rookie year. Interleague success? 5-3, 4.44ERA, 1.338WHIP... not really. I think we bought high.

Poor trade. I guess we can say we did something. Yay.

Soxfan85
12-10-2014, 11:27 PM
@BNightengale
#Dbacks GM Dave Stewart denies they have a deal with #RedSox, getting Webster and DelaRosa for Wade Miley_unable to yet agree on prospects.

nickpiecoro 2m2 minutes ago
Dbacks source says they’ve discussed Webster & De La Rosa with Red Sox in deal for Miley but no agreement has been reached.

Soxfan85
12-10-2014, 11:33 PM
‏@PeteAbe
Identify of 3rd player unknown (or not yet agreed on). Seems to be Miley for De La Rosa, Webster and something.

@Sean_McAdam 1m1 minute ago
Told that hold-up to Miley-to-Red Sox deal is Dbacks choosing from a list of prospects to be included with Webster and De La Rosa.

AI
12-10-2014, 11:34 PM
"@Sean_McAdam: Told that hold-up to Miley-to-Red Sox deal is Dbacks choosing from a list of prospects to be included with Webster and De La Rosa."
...

RedSoxtober
12-10-2014, 11:35 PM
Potentially a good lefty 4th/passable 3rd SP that can throw 200 IP. Under arb control for 3 years. Bear in mind that his park in Arizona is a launching pad. He's got nerve and throws strikes (despite last years WHIP).

BB/9 going 1.7 => 2.9 => 3.4? Looks like he's losing stuff rather than mastering his craft. H/9 and HR/9 following the same path. I guess I'm disappointed that this is perceived as the best use for RDLR/Webster.

Oh, and the equation now is A-Gon, Beckett, Crawford, and Punto for... Wade Miley and a piece of Brock Holt. Sweet.

-Lavigne43-
12-10-2014, 11:35 PM
Just a quick, shallow exercise on Ben's significant trades. + for good, - for bad

Lester -
Lackey To be determined based on Kelly, gut feel is -
Miller +
Peavy to Giants + He was great with Giants was win-win
Peavy from White Sox + Peavy wasn't great, but we didn't give up much
Hanrahan -
Dodgers +
Melancon -
Scutaro -
Bailey -

StayOnBoard
12-10-2014, 11:35 PM
w/t

StryderSox
12-10-2014, 11:39 PM
I think we all need to come to terms with the reality that we are going to have to part with some of the youth that everybody loves if management intends to compete. Owens, Webster, RDLR, Rodriguez, Barnes, Ranaudo, Escobar and Ball were not all going to pitch at Fenway so one or two had to be moved for usable pieces.

We need to piece together a rotation and as long as we can do that be moving prospects not names Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart or Owens then I think we will be fine.

-Lavigne43-
12-10-2014, 11:40 PM
Webster just has great stuff. Maybe I fall in love with that stuff too much. In a one inning stint he can just keep using whatever pitcher he has working that day without having to mix them. He got so many swings and misses, he just had no consistency. I hate selling so ridiculously low on him.

xnick5757
12-10-2014, 11:40 PM
Great trade IMO.

The fact that Webster lost 2 MPH off his fastball last year really scares me, along with the fact that he can barely throw more strikeouts than walks

RDLR has the potential to be a good bullpen arm but you can buy those easily.



We basically traded 2 guys whose ceiling is that of a #5 starter for a guy who can be a #3/#4 200+ IP

Station 13
12-10-2014, 11:43 PM
...

?

We gotta pay even more. w-t-heck

-Lavigne43-
12-10-2014, 11:44 PM
I disagree on it being easy to buy good bullpen arms. You can find them on the cheap with good fortune, but the proven ones are very overpriced and the Red Sox never are in that free agent market. Instead we get relievers in trades and they end up getting destroyed.

xnick5757
12-10-2014, 11:45 PM
I disagree on it being easy to buy good bullpen arms. You can find them on the cheap with good fortune, but the proven ones are very overpriced and the Red Sox never are in that free agent market. Instead we get relievers in trades and they end up getting destroyed.

neither of these two were good either though

tc2deuce
12-10-2014, 11:46 PM
RDLR had me excited and I truly felt comfortable with him in the 3 or 4th spot.

matnautico
12-10-2014, 11:46 PM
No ****ing way!!! Please dont take it Stewart, ask for Betts, dont let us make this terrible trade.

papipapsmanny
12-10-2014, 11:48 PM
He is a career 3.54 FIP away from D-Backs Park (which is a launching pad). I know he plays a lot of games in the NL West parks away... but not all of them.

Increasing Velocity, if he can get his Walk rates back in the 2-3 range per 9 he will be solid. This is a guy who put up a 4.4 WAR in 2012. He is a solid bet to put up a 2-3 WAR season.... He is a great 4 to have.

Let's be honest. Webster is trash he is a non factor in this trade. Rubby may become a decent reliever... that is it, and remember he is about to be 26 he isn't some 23 year old.

As long as the prospect is no body of real value to us.... there is no reason to really ***** about the trade.

xnick5757
12-10-2014, 11:48 PM
If people on this forum had their way, we would have an entire roster's worth of #5 starter/bullpen arm prospects that we held on to.

matnautico
12-10-2014, 11:50 PM
If people on this forum had their way, we would have an entire roster's worth of #5 starter/bullpen arm prospects that we held on to.

Yeah, because trading for Miley is the way to go, a true ACE!!!

StryderSox
12-10-2014, 11:50 PM
BB/9 going 1.7 => 2.9 => 3.4? Looks like he's losing stuff rather than mastering his craft. H/9 and HR/9 following the same path. I guess I'm disappointed that this is perceived as the best use for RDLR/Webster.

Oh, and the equation now is A-Gon, Beckett, Crawford, and Punto for... Wade Miley and a piece of Brock Holt. Sweet.

You completely ignored the boatload of cash which that deal freed up allowing us to bring in the likes of Napoli, Victorino, Ross, Gomes and Dempster which ultimately equated to a WS ring.......

I would argue that the equation looks more like A-Gon, Beckett, Crawford, and Punto for... Napoli, Victorino, Wade Miley and a piece of Brock Holt at the bare minimum which ended up equaling a 3rd WS championship in 10 years

xnick5757
12-10-2014, 11:51 PM
Yeah, because trading for Miley is the way to go, a true ACE!!!

Have you seen our rotation? It's not like this move precludes us from making another. We need more then 1 pitcher

AI
12-10-2014, 11:51 PM
BB/9 going 1.7 => 2.9 => 3.4? Looks like he's losing stuff rather than mastering his craft. H/9 and HR/9 following the same path. I guess I'm disappointed that this is perceived as the best use for RDLR/Webster.

His FIP, xFIP and SIERA have all been pretty consistent the last 3 years. I read today, when rumors of Miley to BOS first started circulated, that the defense was pretty bad for him in Arizona last year. Also, his #'s away from Arizona are significantly better, which is to be expected since that park is a launchpad.

2014
Home: 1.68 HR/9, 5.61 ERA, 4.60 FIP,
Away: 0.43 HR/9, 3.17 ERA, 3.41 FIP

2013
Home: 1.11 HR/9, 4.15 ERA, 4.59 FIP
Away: 0.79 HR/9, 3.09 ERA, 3.51 FIP

There's value in a lefty who can give you 200 IP, especially when 2/5 of the rotation is made up of two starters who have never logged that amount (Clay and Kelly). Both Rubby and Webster are destined for the bullpen. I'll judge this trade as "yay or nay" depending on who this minor leaguer we're giving up ends up being.


Oh, and the equation now is A-Gon, Beckett, Crawford, and Punto for... Wade Miley and a piece of Brock Holt. Sweet.

The key to that trade was the massive salary dump, getting Miley is a plus. Put it this way, if we don't shed all that payroll it probably means no Victorino, Napoli, Gomes, Ross and others in 2013; which means no World Series.

corky831
12-10-2014, 11:53 PM
Ok so I'm looking at positives in this trade. We are most likely assuming Buchholz is our number 3. So we have cost controlled num. 4 and 5 pitchers in Miley and Kelly. It leads me to believe we may make a strong push for Scherzer. Scherzer reminds me a lot of Schilling actually. Power pitcher who really started to break out in his late 20s. Either that or we make a run at shields and make another trade for a pitcher with cespedes +better prospects than Webster and RDLR.

papipapsmanny
12-10-2014, 11:54 PM
I think we will see Ranaudo get moved as well (in another deal), Barnes is going to the Pen.

E-Rod, Owens, and to a certain extent Johnson are all better SP specs, and younger, than Rubby, Ranaudo, and Webster.

xnick5757
12-10-2014, 11:54 PM
2015 Steamer projections

Wade Miley: 192 IP, +2.3 WAR
Rubby de la Rosa: 189 IP, +1.4 WAR
Allen Webster: 182 IP, +0.6 WAR

homie564
12-10-2014, 11:55 PM
If people on this forum had their way, we would have an entire roster's worth of #5 starter/bullpen arm prospects that we held on to.

Yeah, because trading for Miley is the way to go, a true ACE!!!

If you think this is all they're going to do you're crazy.. they added a lefty to the end of the rotation and upgraded on RDLR. Miley is a very good BORP. Buccholz Miley Kelly has the makings of a potentially VERY good bottom of the rotation... time to see what happens with the top 2 spots.

-Lavigne43-
12-10-2014, 11:55 PM
If people on this forum had their way, we would have an entire roster's worth of #5 starter/bullpen arm prospects that we held on to.

Don't we already have a roster full of back end of the rotation pitchers right now? A great amount of starting pitchers with great stuff but big command/consistency issues successfully converted into good/great relievers. Having your farm system supply your bullpen is a good thing, you don't want an expensive pen. This is something the Red Sox have not done enough of. We keep fringe SP like Workman stretched out for too long.

corky831
12-10-2014, 11:56 PM
Mileys away splits are far better as some have already pointed out which is nice to know

StryderSox
12-10-2014, 11:56 PM
RDLR had me excited and I truly felt comfortable with him in the 3 or 4th spot.

3 or 4 ??????? RDLR was an average to low end number 4 at best. In a top notch rotation he probably gets move to the bullpen to try and blow hitters away for one inning.

xnick5757
12-10-2014, 11:57 PM
Don't we already have a roster full of back end of the rotation pitchers right now? A great amount of starting pitchers with great stuff but big command/consistency issues successfully converted into good/great relievers. Having your farm system supply your bullpen is a good thing, you don't want an expensive pen. This is something the Red Sox have not done enough of. We keep fringe SP like Workman stretched out for too long.


Our bullpen is still pretty good right now:

Koji
Tazawa
Mujica
Workman

etc




getting starting pitching was the main need for this team, and we still need more of it


1 - ???
2- ???
3- Buchholz
4- Miley
5 - Kelly



and we still have owens, barnes, rodriguez, wright, etc in the minors

homie564
12-10-2014, 11:58 PM
2015 Steamer projections

Wade Miley: 192 IP, +2.3 WAR
Rubby de la Rosa: 189 IP, +1.4 WAR
Allen Webster: 182 IP, +0.6 WAR

Not to mention I think they were very generous on RDLR and Webster... especially in the IP category. And they were actually a bit conservative on Miley. I think it'll end up looking something like.

Miley: 200 IP, +2.5 WAR
RDLR: 155 IP, +1.0 WAR
Webster: 97 IP, +0.2 WAR


That's more or less my predictions

papipapsmanny
12-10-2014, 11:59 PM
It could mean a Run at Scherzer. Never really understood the prevailing opinion in here that we wouldn't be involved even with Lester signing elsewhere that still seems to hold true.

It could mean Kelly as part of a package for a good SP, but that just pure speculation

AI
12-11-2014, 12:01 AM
Speier chimes in...


Multiple industry sources have confirmed that the Red Sox have an agreement to acquire left-handed starter Wade Miley from the Diamondbacks in exchange for right-handers Rubby De La Rosa, Allen Webster, with a minor leaguer also believed to be heading to Arizona. News of the trade agreement was first reported by Ken Rosenthal and Jon Morosi of Fox Sports (via twitter).

Miley fills a pair of needs for the Red Sox as a pitcher who can shoulder a reliable innings load (he’s logged three straight years of 198 or more innings) and he’s left-handed, giving the Sox some diversity in their rotation.

As written in this blog post earlier today:

In parts of four seasons, Miley ‘€” a 2008 first-rounder ‘€” is 38-35 with a 3.79 ERA. He’€™s thrown at least 194 innings in each of the last three seasons, performing at a level described by one evaluator as a solid No. 4. He’€™s struck out 7.0 per nine innings in his career, including a career-high 8.4 per nine innings in 2014, though after posting ERAs of 3.33 and 3.54 in 2012 and 2013, Miley had a 4.34 ERA last season.

That said, his numbers were made worse by a putrid Diamondbacks defense, and he’€™s also spent his career in one of the more difficult home pitching environments in the game. While he is not being viewed by the Sox as a potential top-of-the-rotation replacement for Jon Lester, his career track record suggests a potentially stabilizing rotation presence.

Miley is eligible for salary arbitration for the first time this offseason. He remains under team control for three years before he’€™ll be eligible for free agency following the 2017 season.

The success of Brandon McCarthy after he was traded from the Diamondbacks to the Yankees last year gives the Red Sox some reason for optimism regarding the potential for Miley to adapt well to the AL East. McCarthy was 3-10 with a 5.01 ERA in 18 starts for Arizona, though with some indicators (such as a career-high strikeout rate) that suggested he was outperforming those numbers by a considerable distance. With New York, he was 7-5 with a 2.89 ERA in 14 starts, ratifying that outlook.

In Webster and De La Rosa, the Red Sox would part ways with two pitchers acquired in the August 2012 deal with the Dodgers who possess electric stuff that hadn’t translated to consistent results.

Webster, 24, was 5-3 with a 5.03 ERA in 11 starts in the big leagues last year. De La Rosa was 4-3 with a 4.43 ERA in 19 big league games (18 starts) in 2014. Questions loom about whether the long-term future of both is in the rotation or bullpen. Both have considerable upside (potentially even as starters) but an ill-defined floor. De La Rosa is out of options; Webster has one minor league option left. The identity of the third piece going to the Diamondbacks remains unknown.

-Lavigne43-
12-11-2014, 12:01 AM
I think we will see Ranaudo get moved as well (in another deal), Barnes is going to the Pen.

E-Rod, Owens, and to a certain extent Johnson are all better SP specs, and younger, than Rubby, Ranaudo, and Webster.

I would have preferred Ranaudo in this trade over Webster. I don't see Ranaudo being anything more than meh no matter what his role. I think we really missed out by not testing Webster in the pen. There's no way Webster carried meaningful weight in this trade, his trade value had to be almost all gone. I'd like to give Barnes one more season as a SP. Convert him in June if it's not looking good.

homie564
12-11-2014, 12:04 AM
I think we will see Ranaudo get moved as well (in another deal), Barnes is going to the Pen.

E-Rod, Owens, and to a certain extent Johnson are all better SP specs, and younger, than Rubby, Ranaudo, and Webster.

I would have preferred Ranaudo in this trade over Webster. I don't see Ranaudo being anything more than meh no matter what his role. I think we really missed out by not testing Webster in the pen. There's no way Webster carried meaningful weight in this trade, his trade value had to be almost all gone. I'd like to give Barnes one more season as a SP. Convert him in June if it's not looking good.

If Ranaudo was in over Webster I'd be pissed. I see nothing in Webster. Career half WAR relief pitcher imo is his ceiling. Good stuff but his control is not good and he's already losing velocity.

-Lavigne43-
12-11-2014, 12:05 AM
Miley's babip doesn't really match up with the idea that his defense behind him was horrible. His career FIP is also identical to his career ERA. AZ is an offense park, but Fenway is too, and now he has to pitch to full lineups. You are also going to have better road numbers when you pitch so many road games at LAD, SF, and SD. Sorry, but I can easily see him having Dempster numbers.

-Lavigne43-
12-11-2014, 12:09 AM
If Ranaudo was in over Webster I'd be pissed. I see nothing in Webster. Career half WAR relief pitcher imo is his ceiling. Good stuff but his control is not good and he's already losing velocity.

Ranaudo in my view has no potential. His very peak is a meh pitcher in the NL. Webster has that potential to be a very good reliever, his slider and changeup can be weapons in that kind of role. I also doubt Webster carried real weight in this trade at all.

matnautico
12-11-2014, 12:09 AM
I dont know why you guys are so quick to assume Rubby and Webster are moving to the BP, they both had solid FIPS last year for their ages in the low 4s and have more upside then Miley. That's a desperation move to me, to have a certain thing in the rotation, just let the kids fight for the spots and I bet at least one of them would give us Miley's production.

StryderSox
12-11-2014, 12:10 AM
Ok so I'm looking at positives in this trade. We are most likely assuming Buchholz is our number 3. So we have cost controlled num. 4 and 5 pitchers in Miley and Kelly. It leads me to believe we may make a strong push for Scherzer. Scherzer reminds me a lot of Schilling actually. Power pitcher who really started to break out in his late 20s. Either that or we make a run at shields and make another trade for a pitcher with cespedes +better prospects than Webster and RDLR.

Scherzer is a pipe dream..... Rumor was that he is looking for a 200 million dollar deal. His agent is also Boras so you know that he will do everything in his power to get the Yankees and Dodgers involved to create a bidding war. If we weren't willing to go to $155 million on an ace that we knew could handle the pressure of Fenway, was a proven winner and a fan favorite in Lester then there is no shot in hell that we are going to blow past that mark.

A more realistic outlook might be Shields on a 4-5 year deal and a package that will include one of those prospects that we will all cringe at (one of Betts,XB,Swihart or Owens) for a Hamels/Zimmer/Cueto type at the top of the rotation. If one of those options dont work out we are probably looking at a Masterson/Santana type of guy on a short term "show me" kind of deal.

AI
12-11-2014, 12:14 AM
Wade Miley is 28, under team control for three more seasons, and is projected to make $4.3 million in arbitration this winter. His ERA went the wrong way last season, but since you’re on FanGraphs, I’m going to assume you know not to evaulate a pitcher by single season ERA. In over 600 big league innings, he has an ERA-/FIP-/xFIP- line of 97/97/98, which is solidly above average for a starter. Especially a durable starter with no health issues.

The Red Sox trade 10 years of team control for three years, but get a much more reliable mid-rotation starter in exchange. And if de la Rosa and Webser end up as relievers, then the extra years won’t matter much at all. While I recognize that I probably like pitchers in the mold of Wade Miley more than most, my early take — without knowing who the third prospect is, which could change things — is that this is a pretty nifty upgrade for the Red Sox.

Dave Cameron (Fangraphs)

StryderSox
12-11-2014, 12:16 AM
I dont know why you guys are so quick to assume Rubby and Webster are moving to the BP, they both had solid FIPS last year for their ages in the low 4s and have more upside then Miley. That's a desperation move to me, to have a certain thing in the rotation, just let the kids fight for the spots and I bet at least one of them would give us Miley's production.

And when Owens, Rodriguez, Barnes and Ranaudo all potentially need a shot at some point before this season is out where do we fit them all? You can also add Ball and Escobar to that list within the next two seasons.

matnautico
12-11-2014, 12:22 AM
Sean McAdam @Sean_McAdam
Told that hold-up to Miley-to-Red Sox deal is Dbacks choosing from a list of prospects to be included with Webster and De La Rosa.

Getting scared about the "minor leaguer" that will be involved...

AI
12-11-2014, 12:24 AM
Getting scared about the "minor leaguer" that will be involved...

Won't be anybody significant.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
12-11-2014, 12:25 AM
Eh, was never really a big fan of Webster. I liked RDLR though. Though I don't think RDLR would have been anything more than a third guy in the rotation. I wonder if they're making room for Masterson and then one of Hamels or Shields now.

corky831
12-11-2014, 12:30 AM
I'm not too worried. It'll probably be Coyle or something like that.........I think the red sox would be willing to give more money to Scherzer than lester. He's won 39 games the past two seasons....has been a reliable arm his whole career. I just see him being around the same pitcher he has been the past two years for the next 4-5 years for sure. He's been decent in the playoffs....better in the alds than alcs but still has solid numbers. The sox are going to spend that lester money. No doubt in my mind. They just got a relatively cheap SP that they needed to fill a void which further helps them allocate their finances for an ace. MS is the only true ace left on the FA market. If I'm spending big....it's gonna be on him instead of shields or giving up our good prospects for hamels

homie564
12-11-2014, 12:41 AM
I'm not too worried. It'll probably be Coyle or something like that.........I think the red sox would be willing to give more money to Scherzer than lester. He's won 39 games the past two seasons....has been a reliable arm his whole career. I just see him being around the same pitcher he has been the past two years for the next 4-5 years for sure. He's been decent in the playoffs....better in the alds than alcs but still has solid numbers. The sox are going to spend that lester money. No doubt in my mind. They just got a relatively cheap SP that they needed to fill a void which further helps them allocate their finances for an ace. MS is the only true ace left on the FA market. If I'm spending big....it's gonna be on him instead of shields or giving up our good prospects for hamels

Coyle would be too much

grandsalami
12-11-2014, 01:03 AM
I'm ok with this.

j-bay
12-11-2014, 01:10 AM
Eh, was never really a big fan of Webster. I liked RDLR though. Though I don't think RDLR would have been anything more than a third guy in the rotation. I wonder if they're making room for Masterson and then one of Hamels or Shields now.

I think this could be a possibility right here.
Hamels
Shields
Porcello
Miley
Buchholz

And then Kelly's goes to the pen and gives us a needed bullpen piece.

SirHizz
12-11-2014, 01:12 AM
I am torn with this deal. Seems like alot to gve up, especially Rubby is the one I like. Webster looks like he could thrive in the pen, though.

But with so many SP prospects knocking on the door, you would either expect the "older" guys to have a real spot on the team or they are expendable.

What I don't like is the return, I am honest with you. Miley feels like another "Kelly". Backend arm with not much upside. So 3 pots are already locked up by guys with little to no TOTR qualities (besides Buchholz, but I am not holding my breath)

Would that deal have went down had Lester signed? Not so sure, but it feels like Miley is in the Masterson class, so I doubt Justin will be coming back.
We are still 2 top arms away from having a decent chance if competing next year. Not so sure it's going to happen, though.

*Well, maybe Kelly is about to get shipped off in another deal. I can definitely see a package of Cespedes and Kelly going to San Diego in a deal for a better pitcher than Kennedy, which would be either Cashner or Ross, I prefer either one as a #2.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
12-11-2014, 01:21 AM
I think this could be a possibility right here.
Hamels
Shields
Porcello
Miley
Buchholz

And then Kelly's goes to the pen and gives us a needed bullpen piece.

I don't think Henry is willing to go that far over the luxury tax to get Hamels and Shields.

homie564
12-11-2014, 01:22 AM
There was the thing that the Tigers wanted a starter with Cespedes for porcello... could be Kelly and Cespedes?... though I really like Kelly.

Station 13
12-11-2014, 01:24 AM
There was the thing that the Tigers wanted a starter with Cespedes for porcello... could be Kelly and Cespedes?... though I really like Kelly.

That would be awful.

Forty6and2
12-11-2014, 01:53 AM
If people on this forum had their way, we would have an entire roster's worth of #5 starter/bullpen arm prospects that we held on to.

Totally agree with this.

Webster and De La Rosa are garbage...once top prospects who were going to be relegated to the pen. Whew...that is value...c'mon guys get your head out of your *****. Two possible pen pieces for a starter...we should take that every day of the week.

Still got money, better prospects and OF depth to acquire more starters.

sawxfan
12-11-2014, 01:57 AM
Don't really mind this trade at all. You get a #4 or so starter that has been able to put up 200 inning for three years and has three years of control for two solid relievers/possible starters. Not sure you will ever see both RDLR and Webster throwing 200 innings combined in one season.

Having a guy that can eat innings is HUGELY important. Now we need someone for the other end of the rotation.

Station 13
12-11-2014, 02:00 AM
yes, we do not have spots for them in the rotation. Rubby though could make a good reliever. If we get a starter to plug in the rotation, fine. We still haven't done what needed to be done, get two top rotation arms.

Sportfan
12-11-2014, 02:01 AM
So How many #3-5 starters do we need?

redsox0717
12-11-2014, 03:27 AM
I had to post for the first time in months to express how terrible this trade is.

SirHizz
12-11-2014, 04:04 AM
So How many #3-5 starters do we need?

Well, with Masterson being close to signing with a mystery team and we've been heavily linked to him, the answer to your question is yet to come.

It can't be us, right?

celticsman2009
12-11-2014, 08:06 AM
We could go the route of signing a bunch of 2-3-4 pitchers and just stock the BP with really good arms. That's how KC did it last year.

RedSoxtober
12-11-2014, 10:34 AM
You completely ignored the boatload of cash which that deal freed up allowing us to bring in the likes of Napoli, Victorino, Ross, Gomes and Dempster which ultimately equated to a WS ring.......



The key to that trade was the massive salary dump, getting Miley is a plus. Put it this way, if we don't shed all that payroll it probably means no Victorino, Napoli, Gomes, Ross and others in 2013; which means no World Series.

I was being sarcastic -- I understand the impact of the salary relief. However, if you didn't do that deal then you don't NEED Napoli and might get to the WS without his presence. No guarantees but it's really impossible to unring the bell like that.

Also, let's not pretend like getting Webster (in particular) and RDLR was NOT a very big part of the deal. Webster pushed into the BA top 100 and top 50 in the year after the trade and was the buzz of the 2012 ST with the way he left top hitters swinging and missing. Saying less about him now is just a matter of looking at what he became rather than what he was. Similarly, RDLR was a top 100 prospect who was derailed by surgery. With low miles on his power arms he still has a decent ceiling if he can learn to trust his fastball and use it to set up the change better. The other guys in the deal (DeJesus, Loney) were obvious filler who "evened" the return for those not following the game.


2015 Steamer projections

Wade Miley: 192 IP, +2.3 WAR
Rubby de la Rosa: 189 IP, +1.4 WAR
Allen Webster: 182 IP, +0.6 WAR

This is somewhat meaningless given their change of locations and leagues unless it was updated within minutes of the deal.


BTW, those of you who are touting Miley's home/away splits as a reason to get excited about him might want to check park factors for Fenway vs Chase. Their profiles are VERY similar over the three years that Miley has been in MLB. The primary difference is that Fenway gives up more doubles and Chase gives up more triples (though still comparatively rare in the game).

BoSox47
12-11-2014, 11:26 AM
Hate the miley trade, RDLR is going to be better then miley imo. 91 mph fastball for Miley. He will be our 5th starter.

BCpatsox18
12-11-2014, 11:40 AM
If he can return to his form before last season, this is a pretty good trade.

StryderSox
12-11-2014, 11:41 AM
Hate the miley trade, RDLR is going to be better then miley imo. 91 mph fastball for Miley. He will be our 5th starter.

LMAO..... If we end up with a rotation that includes Miley as the number 5 then we are laughing. RDLR has not shown enough control or endurance to be a middle of the rotation starter yet. Alot of people believe (myself included) that he is far better suited as a bullpen guy that can come in for 1 inning and try to blow guys away.

RedSoxtober
12-11-2014, 12:14 PM
So How many #3-5 starters do we need?
Going out on a limb here... 3?


LMAO..... If we end up with a rotation that includes Miley as the number 5 then we are laughing. RDLR has not shown enough control or endurance to be a middle of the rotation starter yet. Alot of people believe (myself included) that he is far better suited as a bullpen guy that can come in for 1 inning and try to blow guys away.

I agree with the assessment for sure. I think that we just disagree about the value of that. Look at the BPs in the past few WS. Teams in the race have had innings 7-9 pretty well locked down. Guys with unhittable stuff can directly effect 40-60% of a teams games and possibly every single one in the playoffs. SP gets 20% at most. I think RDLR had CL potential and could have taken over for Koji in a couple of years on the cheap.

bagwell368
12-11-2014, 12:40 PM
I had to post for the first time in months to express how terrible this trade is.

That retirement idea was a good one. This is a fair deal if not better.

j-bay
12-11-2014, 02:23 PM
Cafardo said scouts said he is up aND coming, love his delivery, and could be a future #2.

BGeer091
12-11-2014, 02:32 PM
Cafardo said scouts said he is up aND coming, love his delivery, and could be a future #2.

I agree with that sentiment. I believe that Miley could be a future #2. I think him leaving Arizona and coming to Boston is better for his career. A lot of great young pitchers seem to be failing in Arizona. I go to Pawsox games all the time and had a 2 minute conversation with Bauer who was with Cleveland at the time. He said that he wasn't convinced he could succeed there. So I see the results and take that as Arizona is not a good place for young pitchers. Im confident Farrell gets the most out of Miley. Now is that 20 wins and a 1.80 era NO. I think with our offense it could translate to 16 wins with a 3.20 era. I'll take that from a lefty anyday.

Corey
12-11-2014, 03:31 PM
I like Rubby a lot, and Miley seems like a guy that could get CRUSHED in the AL, but Buehrle is doing really well and they have sort of similar approaches. (Granted, Mark Buehrle is a **** ton better)

We'll see. He's a soft throwing lefty that eats up innings. I dont really care about Webster but losing RDLR kinda stinks.

cocossox
12-11-2014, 03:51 PM
i liked rubby but the trade is ok imo

corky831
12-11-2014, 04:21 PM
I wouldn't consider miley soft throwing....he throws 92-93

j-bay
12-11-2014, 04:26 PM
For those of you who believe he is not coming.
https://mobile.twitter.com/wademiley36/followings

AI
12-12-2014, 11:15 AM
@BNightengale: #Dbacks Wade Miley will officially be a #Redsox by Sat; Rubby De La Rosa, Allen Webster,and prospect to #Dbacks as @jonmorosi reported Wed.

-Lavigne43-
12-12-2014, 11:19 AM
The delay over the prospect is strange. You don't delay a trade this long over a nothing prospect.

AI
12-12-2014, 11:41 AM
Arizona is probably insisting on a couple of prospects that Ben clearly doesn't want to trade. Hold your ground Ben, hold your ground.

RedSoxtober
12-12-2014, 12:50 PM
The delay over the prospect is strange. You don't delay a trade this long over a nothing prospect.

Unless you name him PTBNL

j-bay
12-12-2014, 07:06 PM
@JonHeymanCBS
wade miley to red sox is now a done deal

randyisgoinsolo
12-12-2014, 08:22 PM
‏@alexspeier 1m1 minute ago
Showed some on-base ability, speed in Lowell MT @nickpiecoro: Hearing infielder Raymel Flores could be 3rd player in the Wade Miley trade.

RedSoxtober
12-12-2014, 09:16 PM
Red Sox acquired LHP Wade Miley from the Diamondbacks for RHP Rubby De La Rosa, RHP Allen Webster and INF Raymel Flores.

The 28-year-old southpaw will join a completely revamped Red Sox roation that has added Rick Porcello and Justin Masterson in recent days. Miley has proven to be a very durable option, averaging over 199 innings over each of the last three seasons while compiling a 3.74 ERA and 474/178 K/BB ratio. He is prone to the long ball though, having surrendered at least 20 home runs in each of the past two seasons, and the move to Fenway Park is unlikely to alleviate that problem.

Italicized part seems odd. A move to a HR suppressing park is unlikely to suppress HR? Go figure.

If Flores (here (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=flores002ray)) was the hold up I kinda don't get it.

RedSoxtober
12-13-2014, 10:41 AM
Diamondbacks general manager Dave Stewart said Friday that Josh Collmenter would start on Opening Day.

Stewart announced that Rubby De La Rosa, Jeremy Hellickson and Allen Webster would follow Collmenter in the rotation, with an open competition being held in spring training for the fifth and final spot in the rotation. There's still plenty of time for things to change before the start of the regular season, but as it stands the rotation looks very weak heading into the 2015 season.

I'd guess RDLR and Webster are big fans of the trade now.

Nomar
12-15-2014, 06:11 PM
Italicized part seems odd. A move to a HR suppressing park is unlikely to suppress HR? Go figure.

If Flores (here (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=flores002ray)) was the hold up I kinda don't get it.
Jesus some writers really don't do background research. 16 of Miley's 20 HRs came at Chase Field.

Chase Field was 7th in HR park factor this year.

Fenway park was 27th.

Is it too much to ask for some research rather than thinking "Fenway, short fence in left, HRs for everyone"?

FWIW to people saying the same thing about Hamels: Citizens Bank Park was 6th in HR park factor.

Fenway should help Miley alieviate HRs let up, not contribute to more. He will have smaller in-division parks now though (although no Coors). He also creates a ton of GBs to LHB, and we have the leagues best right side of the infield. Going into his prime years, I'll gladly take Wade Miley.

theGhost-isGone
12-15-2014, 07:18 PM
Jesus some writers really don't do background research. 16 of Miley's 20 HRs came at Chase Field.

Chase Field was 7th in HR park factor this year.

Fenway park was 27th.

Is it too much to ask for some research rather than thinking "Fenway, short fence in left, HRs for everyone"?

FWIW to people saying the same thing about Hamels: Citizens Bank Park was 6th in HR park factor.

Fenway should help Miley alieviate HRs let up, not contribute to more. He will have smaller in-division parks now though (although no Coors). He also creates a ton of GBs to LHB, and we have the leagues best right side of the infield. Going into his prime years, I'll gladly take Wade Miley.

Excellent post Nomar, and I couldn't agree with you more.

On an added note, I'm not sure about Hamels being able to pitch in the AL, let alone the East with the smaller parks and tougher line-ups (supposedly).

I like the approach of getting solid K/BB guys with high GB rates, with a gold-glove infield (Bogaerts improving again is essential) this will help our pitchers tremendously. Not sure if Hamels fits that mold, he's more of a Lester/Pettite than say a Brandon Webb/Peavy. The only guy I wouldn't mind falling out of the rotation in favor of him would be Buchholz, as they have comparable styles but Hamels would likely be more consistent.

Nomar
12-17-2014, 03:00 AM
Yeah to be clear I'm against a Hamlels deal if we have to include any of: Bogaerts, Betts, Swihart, Owens, Rodriguez, or Devers.

I'm more in favor of Zimmermann or Iwakuma trades, but I'm not against the current rotation with Owens/Rodriguez in the wings. The trade deadline will have lot of available arms as well. No need to be hasty.

AI
12-17-2014, 11:03 AM
Buchholz/Kelly (prefer to trade Clay even if his upside is higher), Margot, Coyle and someone like Stankiewicz would be my offer for Hamels, with us absorbing all of his contract.

j-bay
12-17-2014, 05:14 PM
While baseball may have come a long way from the spittoon-and-ashtray days of a few decades ago, its fitness standards are generally below those of the other major American sports.

The Arizona Diamondbacks appear to be an exception to that rule, and their insistence on healthy eating reportedly drove a wedge between the team and pitcher Wade Miley, who the Red Sox acquired in trade last week.

Miley discussed recent reports of poor preparation and diet on his part Tuesday, telling the Arizona Republic the concerns were over-blown.

“I might not have a six-pack and be shredded and this and that, but I feel like I eat healthy enough,” he said. “I’ve made it through three full seasons. I feel fine. My body feels great. I don’t understand why they’d make such a big emphasis on the health part of it.”

The 220-pound Miley is not exactly the picture of health, but he topped 200 innings the last two seasons and finished just 5.1 shy of that mark in 2012.

Miley freely admitted he “hunted more than he worked out” during his early years in the league, but said he’s since become more disciplined. Still, the pitcher said he refused to adhere completely to team standards. In the story, Miley didn’t go into detail about the team’s dietary requirements, but did make several refeences to not being gluten free.

“It might work for some people, but I didn’t feel like it worked for me,” he said. “I did what I felt like I needed to do to pitch every five days.”

Boston is no stranger to controversy over pitchers’ diets, but as long as Miley performs like the mid-3s ERA pitcher he was in 2012 and 2013, he’ll be fine.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/2014/12/17/wade-miley-says-clashed-with-diamondbacks-over-diet/0X0uiuoktetWMoiTORa3TP/story.html

RedSoxtober
12-17-2014, 05:47 PM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/2014/12/17/wade-miley-says-clashed-with-diamondbacks-over-diet/0X0uiuoktetWMoiTORa3TP/story.html

Maybe he IS a good replacement for the dearly departed Chicken-and-Beer lefty.

ruckus16969
12-18-2014, 03:38 PM
I'd guess RDLR and Webster are big fans of the trade now.

That's going to be rough for Arizona

papipapsmanny
12-19-2014, 04:46 PM
This was interesting


Wade Miley might be the odd pitcher to do better in the American League — all four of his pitches rated well, and his slider (1.7) was a top-fifteen slider among starters.

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/toward-a-pitch-arsenal-score-ranking-statistic/