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72 Wins
12-09-2014, 01:07 PM
I used to often see players always heaving a 1/2 court shot and usually missing at the end of quarters. Today it's the opposite. Players now are either holding the ball and not taking a long-range/end of quarter shot, or, "faking it," shooting just as the clock expires. Just another example at how the game has changed. People are too worried about stats these days. Is it just me, or do people notice this too?

Chronz
12-09-2014, 01:12 PM
You could look it up on bbr.

DreamShaker
12-09-2014, 01:17 PM
I read an article about this awhile back. I just googled it.

http://dailythunder.com/2013/02/to-heave-or-not-heave/

Kevin Durant said: 的t depends on what I知 shooting from the field. First quarter if I知 4-for-4, I let it go. Third quarter if I知 like 10-for-16, or 10-for-17, I might let it go. But if I知 like 8-for-19, I知 going to go ahead and dribble one more second and let that buzzer go off and then throw it up there. So it depends on how the game痴 going.

I loved Westbrook's response: No. Nope If I was considering about [statistics] I壇 do a lot of **** different.

Lol. But a guy like Durant admitting this validates your observation, for sure. You think about the crap guys get these days for being inefficient, and the glory they get for advanced stats, I can sorta see how these guys second guess certain things for fear of scrutiny, or even missing out on money. It sucks, but tis the world we live in.

Hawkeye15
12-09-2014, 01:17 PM
You could look it up on bbr.

correct. They show a stat called "heaves" or something like that.

Sadds The Gr8
12-09-2014, 01:19 PM
Hate when players do this.

Vee-Rex
12-09-2014, 01:50 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but is there a reason why teams don't use a timeout before the end of a quarter/half and go for a last second shot after the ball has been advanced?

2-ONE-5
12-09-2014, 02:27 PM
i blame it on the analytics, seriously

ThuglifeJ
12-09-2014, 02:32 PM
Pussification of the NBA

JEDean89
12-09-2014, 02:33 PM
^^^ i've off wondered this myself, but my guess is that the coach is saving the timeout for the end of the half.

Raps18-19 Champ
12-09-2014, 02:43 PM
Fine by me.

koreancabbage
12-09-2014, 02:50 PM
who cares?

YoungOne
12-09-2014, 02:56 PM
you can only advance the ball in the last 2 minutes of the 4th quarter

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-09-2014, 02:59 PM
"stats" era

Vampirate
12-09-2014, 03:16 PM
This is honestly stupid.

This is one of the times I agree with the quote "you miss 100% of the shots you don't make", the worst that happens is people will say "it was a long shot anyways".

The possibility of stealing 2-3 points in the game should not be underestimated.

72 Wins
12-09-2014, 03:46 PM
It's just hilarious when players "fake it." I mean c'mon, you're not fooling anyone. Your timing can't possibly be that bad. But now other players are simply "keeping it real" and not even trying to shoot the ball. When I first noticed this was D.Rose was criticized for being a volume/non-efficient shooter back in 2010/2011. He had about 2-3 heaves per game which of course impacted his shooting percentage. This year, he picks and chooses when he heaves. So this is definitely on his mind as well.

Zefflin
12-09-2014, 03:46 PM
It's the Lebron thing to do

jerellh528
12-09-2014, 03:51 PM
Lbj is the king of this

72 Wins
12-09-2014, 04:07 PM
It's the Lebron thing to do


Lbj is the king of this

Yep. This was the first time I noticed this.

Avenged
12-09-2014, 04:10 PM
Not a big deal imo

archdevil84
12-09-2014, 04:12 PM
its not too big of a deal to me but personally, if i was in the NBA i would try it every single time i get a shot at it. I mean, yes most of the time you are gonna miss and its gonna drop your FG% slightly but hitting such a shot can give you such a momentum boost. Like for instance you make a big run at the end of a 2nd quarter and then make a buzzer beater to take the lead into halftime or something. gives you a lot of confidence etc. etc.

sens#11fan
12-09-2014, 04:14 PM
Wade does this all the time too

ThuglifeJ
12-09-2014, 05:04 PM
I guess I've never seen lebron heave it up last second now that I think about it

JustinTime
12-09-2014, 05:23 PM
simple solution: Don't count end of quarter shots as FGA's

2-ONE-5
12-09-2014, 05:46 PM
thats not a solution

dalton749
12-09-2014, 05:57 PM
Last week playing the raps lebron literally told love to stop when he was inbounding the ball at the end up the quarter. Like a crossing guard lol it was sad

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-09-2014, 06:02 PM
simple solution: Don't count end of quarter shots as FGA's

lmfao

andy2518
12-09-2014, 06:14 PM
It's the Lebron thing to do

That's honestly what I was thinking lol. Truthfully, with all this new emphasis on advanced stats, players are looking at the game differently. I'm sure the fad will pass though.

andy2518
12-09-2014, 06:15 PM
simple solution: Don't count end of quarter shots as FGA's

Ya, but then they would have to go and factor that in for every player in the past 50 years to be fair and that's too much of a ***** to do. Not that they would do that anyways, just saying.

andy2518
12-09-2014, 06:22 PM
I read an article about this awhile back. I just googled it.

http://dailythunder.com/2013/02/to-heave-or-not-heave/

Kevin Durant said: 的t depends on what I知 shooting from the field. First quarter if I知 4-for-4, I let it go. Third quarter if I知 like 10-for-16, or 10-for-17, I might let it go. But if I知 like 8-for-19, I知 going to go ahead and dribble one more second and let that buzzer go off and then throw it up there. So it depends on how the game痴 going.

I loved Westbrook's response: No. Nope If I was considering about [statistics] I壇 do a lot of **** different.

Lol. But a guy like Durant admitting this validates your observation, for sure. You think about the crap guys get these days for being inefficient, and the glory they get for advanced stats, I can sorta see how these guys second guess certain things for fear of scrutiny, or even missing out on money. It sucks, but tis the world we live in.

Huh. Very interesting. Pretty crazy that Durant would actually admit that. I mean we all know they must think about this kind of stuff and some more than others, but for Durant to actually admit that is pretty crazy. I respect him even more for doing so of course.

JustinTime
12-09-2014, 06:23 PM
Ya, but then they would have to go and factor that in for every player in the past 50 years to be fair and that's too much of a ***** to do. Not that they would do that anyways, just saying.

Just count it as a team shot miss or make. It's not like any of those guys would throw that up if they weren't trying to win. Rules change all the time Jordan didn't play with a zone, Wilt didn't play with goal tending or a 3pt line.

PowerHouse
12-09-2014, 06:30 PM
simple solution: Don't count end of quarter shots as FGA's

Sure. And if it goes in we wont count the points.

JustinTime
12-09-2014, 06:54 PM
Sure. And if it goes in we wont count the points.

Just make it a stat of it's own then. You get a Fg% for your normal shots and one for half court buzzer beaters. Scouts aren't going to judge a player on half court misses unless someone is actually hitting them consistently.

ILLUSIONIST^248
12-09-2014, 07:11 PM
Pussification of the NBA

This, I know a certain player who has lead the way for this new NBA style.

Chronz
12-09-2014, 07:50 PM
Lol just when do you kids think this started and will a ANYONE actually take the time to research this? Not that it makes a difference but some of you guys are going overboard. Lmfao @ 3 heaves per game for Rose. Delusional children

Chronz
12-09-2014, 07:50 PM
This, I know a certain player who has lead the way for this new NBA style.
Kobe?

Chronz
12-09-2014, 07:52 PM
Yep. This was the first time I noticed this.
What would you say if i told you Bron has been among the league leaders in those heaves?

Chronz
12-09-2014, 07:53 PM
Pussification of the NBA
Began in the 50s

dalton749
12-09-2014, 08:01 PM
it should be a different shooting category, like free throws
heave % or something, where any shot from behind the half court line, is is a category of its own
then we would see players taking them at every chance because it becomes a skill of its own

teams could have a guy at the end of the bench who regularly works on those shots(someone at the end of their career), and would be like the equivalent to an nfl kicker haha

mngopher35
12-09-2014, 08:08 PM
Basketball reference has a stat called heaves which they total the number of shots taken half court or longer for these players. Looking at a player like Lebron you can see that he seems more conscious of this type of shots now since he has 1 heave in the last 4 regular seasons but 32 over his career. The year before that he lead Miami in heaves and did for multiple years in Cleveland as well.

This is also a similar type of trend even for someone like Kobe though who people probably wouldn't expect to care about stuff like this (10 attempts since 09 but 47 total since 01). Kobe hasn't lead his team in heaves any year since 09 (tied for 1st with 1 heave this yr so we will see) but did lead the lakers in 5 years from 01-08.

Since entering the league in 08 Durant has 4 heaves which is pretty low but something I thought would be more likely with newer aged stars. However, other stars like Curry and Klove had 22 since entering the league so I am not so sure. It would take a while to look up a ton of past and present players and you can't even go back past 2001 right now so it would be really hard to judge.

I can't quite find a way to look at heaves for teams (other than year by year and counting them) and compare them or compare players and years etc. It also only goes back to 2001 right now (it would be interesting to compare to 90's and 80's). There seems to be a lot of flux from year to year for teams and without being able to compare a wide group on bball ref it is too hard to see any trend really. Also the numbers above don't tell the whole story for that same reason since we don't know if the opportunities were less or not for each player but it does seem to be something some players think about, even if they didn't earlier in their careers. Even just watching it does seem that a lot more often you will see no shot put up or someone missing the buzzer by a second "accidentally". It is a topic that might be interesting to see if there was more data out there to see differences in team attempts and star players as well.

Hawkeye15
12-09-2014, 08:24 PM
It's just hilarious when players "fake it." I mean c'mon, you're not fooling anyone. Your timing can't possibly be that bad. But now other players are simply "keeping it real" and not even trying to shoot the ball. When I first noticed this was D.Rose was criticized for being a volume/non-efficient shooter back in 2010/2011. He had about 2-3 heaves per game which of course impacted his shooting percentage. This year, he picks and chooses when he heaves. So this is definitely on his mind as well.


Rose had 9 heaves all year dude. He was criticized for the MVP because it was he was a weak candidate when measuring against that other MVPs' over time. Not the worst, but easily bottom 1/3rd.

Hawkeye15
12-09-2014, 08:25 PM
Lbj is the king of this

really? 47 of Kobe's 24,839 attempts were heaves, most in any year was 6.

Its always happened.

Hawkeye15
12-09-2014, 08:28 PM
I guess I've never seen lebron heave it up last second now that I think about it

32 career heaves in 17,105 shot attempts, versus Kobe and his 47 in 24, 839. Same percentage, literally.

Hawkeye15
12-09-2014, 08:30 PM
the lack of research for some of you children is mind blowing.

DR_1
12-09-2014, 08:42 PM
the lack of research for some of you children is mind blowing.

Come on, don't call other people children when we all have our biases. Not trying to instigate, I'm just saying that we all have our biases and that we shouldn't get bashed over the head for it.

Shammyguy3
12-09-2014, 10:13 PM
the lack of research for some of you children is mind blowing.

I need my mouth rubbed out with soap :) i prefer the Dial kind, please

Hawkeye15
12-09-2014, 10:29 PM
Come on, don't call other people children when we all have our biases. Not trying to instigate, I'm just saying that we all have our biases and that we shouldn't get bashed over the head for it.

I am talking in general. So much inaccuracy dude. I mean, we have tons of sites to look up the claims so many make. I just read Rose was taking 3 heaves a game hahahaha, he took 9 all year that season

JasonJohnHorn
12-09-2014, 11:32 PM
A real team player sacrifices stats for the team, and not just a lower scoring average, but sometimes lower FG% and high fouls.

Ben Wallace had more blocks than fouls... if their coach told them to foul somebody on a play, do you think they are going to respond with: "Coach, that will fawk up my fouls-to-blocks ration.". No, they'll go out there and fawking foul a guy.

Granted, there is no point to heaving a ball in the winding seconds of a game where you are either up by 20 or down by 20, but when you have a close game and you have a shot with the clock winding down, you take it. However small the chance is, it is a chance. Over the course of a season, maybe only two go down, but one of those could be the difference between a win and a loss; homecourt advantage and a first-round exit.

Chronz
12-09-2014, 11:44 PM
Come on, don't call other people children when we all have our biases. Not trying to instigate, I'm just saying that we all have our biases and that we shouldn't get bashed over the head for it.

The reason theyre children it's because their bias gets in the way of objective/quantifiable facts

Jeffy25
12-10-2014, 01:36 AM
Lbj is the king of this


It's the Lebron thing to do


I guess I've never seen lebron heave it up last second now that I think about it

He's the only one on the Cavs so far this year to chuck up a heave :shrug:

He's done it 32 times in his career, and has made 2 of them.


Wade has done it 35 times, making 2 of them.



Other players that heave the ball:

Kobe has made 1 out of 47 heaves

Ray Allen 1 out of 34

Curry 0 out of 22

Thompson 0 out of 9

Durant only 0 out of 4

Harden 1 out of 8


The idea that Lebron doesn't do this is just flat out wrong, though, he has only done it once since 2011. Which would make it appear like he has stopped doing it.




Another example of people pretending something when there is easy to find information that doesn't support their theory.




Fwiw, it's only a fraction of a players career shots.

If Kobe had never heaved for example, his career .452 field goal percentage would now be .453 and his three point shooting percentage would be .336 instead of .334

Lebron would be .497 instead of .496 and his three point shooting would be .344 instead of .341

Chronz
12-10-2014, 01:58 AM
He's the only one on the Cavs so far this year to chuck up a heave :shrug:

He's done it 32 times in his career, and has made 2 of them.


Wade has done it 35 times, making 2 of them.



Other players that heave the ball:

Kobe has made 1 out of 47 heaves

Ray Allen 1 out of 34

Curry 0 out of 22

Thompson 0 out of 9

Durant only 0 out of 4

Harden 1 out of 8


The idea that Lebron doesn't do this is just flat out wrong, though, he has only done it once since 2011. Which would make it appear like he has stopped doing it.




Another example of people pretending something when there is easy to find information that doesn't support their theory.




Fwiw, it's only a fraction of a players career shots.

If Kobe had never heaved for example, his career .452 field goal percentage would now be .453 and his three point shooting percentage would be .336 instead of .334

Lebron would be .497 instead of .496 and his three point shooting would be .344 instead of .341

Lmfao
Pussification i tells ya

These kids ....

jerellh528
12-10-2014, 02:19 AM
He's the only one on the Cavs so far this year to chuck up a heave :shrug:

He's done it 32 times in his career, and has made 2 of them.


Wade has done it 35 times, making 2 of them.



Other players that heave the ball:

Kobe has made 1 out of 47 heaves

Ray Allen 1 out of 34

Curry 0 out of 22

Thompson 0 out of 9

Durant only 0 out of 4

Harden 1 out of 8


The idea that Lebron doesn't do this is just flat out wrong, though, he has only done it once since 2011. Which would make it appear like he has stopped doing it.




Another example of people pretending something when there is easy to find information that doesn't support their theory.




Fwiw, it's only a fraction of a players career shots.

If Kobe had never heaved for example, his career .452 field goal percentage would now be .453 and his three point shooting percentage would be .336 instead of .334

Lebron would be .497 instead of .496 and his three point shooting would be .344 instead of .341

Are these "heaves" half court or longer? Or does it include shot clock prayers within the half court as well?

Jeffy25
12-10-2014, 02:20 AM
Are these "heaves" half court or longer? Or does it include shot clock prayers within the half court as well?

Heave attempts are classified as beyond half-court

Hawkeye15
12-10-2014, 02:22 AM
Are these "heaves" half court or longer? Or does it include shot clock prayers within the half court as well?

look the ****ing definition up. You are so quick to jump in here and crap on your hated player, while not realizing this isn't new at all.....

Like I said, some of you kids are just lazy, and don't even feel like looking it up. This site has become nearly unbearable.

72 Wins
12-10-2014, 02:25 AM
Wow... I used the term "heave," without knowing that this was actually a measured stat (halfcourt or beyond). When I used the term heave, my intent was to describe a last second/long range shot. With this said, Rose is usually the guy who the Bulls inbounded the ball too back then, and it seemed as if he was always in this situation where he had to chuck up a shot.

Jeffy25
12-10-2014, 02:28 AM
Wow... I used the term "heave," without knowing that this was actually a measured stat (halfcourt or beyond). When I used the term heave, my intent was to describe a last second/long range shot. With this said, Rose is usually the guy who the Bulls inbounded the ball too back then, and it seemed as if he was always in this situation where he had to chuck up a shot.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rosede01.html#shooting::none

jerellh528
12-10-2014, 02:28 AM
Heave attempts are classified as beyond half-court

Well thats not the lone shot i was referring to

Jeffy25
12-10-2014, 02:29 AM
Well thats not the lone shot i was referring to

What are you referring to?

72 Wins
12-10-2014, 02:29 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rosede01.html#shooting::none

What exactly are you trying to show me? I already acknowledged I did not realize a heave stat existed until now.

jerellh528
12-10-2014, 02:30 AM
Who cares about longer than half court? Thats once a month type crap. Im talking last second prayers any place on the court

Jeffy25
12-10-2014, 02:30 AM
What exactly are you trying to show me? I already acknowledged I did not realize a heave stat existed until now.

Sharing the information

jerellh528
12-10-2014, 02:31 AM
What are you referring to?

Those fg% busters, last second buzzer beater prayers like catching an inbound with .6 on the clock etc

jerellh528
12-10-2014, 02:33 AM
look the ****ing definition up. You are so quick to jump in here and crap on your hated player, while not realizing this isn't new at all.....

Like I said, some of you kids are just lazy, and don't even feel like looking it up. This site has become nearly unbearable.
I know what they were, hence why i got jeffy to say it. Would i ask the question like that without knowing the asnwer?

72 Wins
12-10-2014, 02:33 AM
Im talking last second prayers any place on the court

This is what I was trying to convey until I used the dreaded term, "heave."

jerellh528
12-10-2014, 02:34 AM
This is what I was trying to convey until I used the dreaded term, "heave."

I knew what you meant.

72 Wins
12-10-2014, 02:35 AM
I still stand by my stance that D.Rose always seemed to take a very low percentage last second shot at least 2-3 times/game. Most were technically not "heaves" per definition. I don't even know how to actually research this, but just going on memory.

72 Wins
12-10-2014, 02:35 AM
I knew what you meant.

Child, thank u. haha

benzni
12-10-2014, 02:37 AM
Curry can make this shot 5 out of 10 times

Jeffy25
12-10-2014, 02:54 AM
Those fg% busters, last second buzzer beater prayers like catching an inbound with .6 on the clock etc

LeBron is 1 for 5 this season on shots with less than a second to go in a quarter.

2 of them for 3, one from beyond half court

Kobe is 0 for 3, 2 attempts from 3

Last year, leBron was 11 for 36
Kobe didn't take any last year

In 12/13

LeBron went 6 for 20

Kobe was 4 for 27

In 11/12

LeBron went 14 for 32
Kobe went 2 for 17

In 10/11

LeBron went 13 for 40
Kobe went 2 for 18

In 09/10

LeBron went 11 for 57
Kobe went 8 for 30

In 08/09

LeBron went 13 for 48
Kobe went 7 for 23

In 07/08

LeBron went 12 for 35
Kobe went 4 for 30

In 06/07

LeBron went 9 for 37
Kobe went 5 for 31

In 05/06

LeBron went 9 for 43
Kobe went 14 for 49

In 04/05

LeBron went 9 for 30
Kobe went 4 for 31

In 03/04

LeBron went 2 for 27
Kobe went 3 for 25

In total:

LeBron has gone 110 out of 410 (26.8%)

Kobe has gone 53 out of 284 (18.7%)

I am aware that this is what you are asking.

Not only does LeBron take these shots with less than a second left in a quarter left more than Kobe, but he also makes them significantly more often.

Jeffy25
12-10-2014, 02:56 AM
I know what they were, hence why i got jeffy to say it. Would i ask the question like that without knowing the asnwer?

Why would you ask the question then?

I swear....

Jeffy25
12-10-2014, 03:00 AM
I still stand by my stance that D.Rose always seemed to take a very low percentage last second shot at least 2-3 times/game. Most were technically not "heaves" per definition. I don't even know how to actually research this, but just going on memory.

In 2010/2011 rose took 51 shots to end a quarter (most in the NBA, Paul was second that year with 45, Ellis had 44)

And he made 9 of these 51 shots, 37 of these shots were 3 pointers, and he made 6 of them....2 of them were assists.


In 09/10. He was 4 out of 20

So not as much as you feel like you are recalling.

jerellh528
12-10-2014, 03:01 AM
LeBron is 1 for 5 this season on shots with less than a second to go in a quarter.

2 of them for 3, one from beyond half court

Kobe is 0 for 3, 2 attempts from 3

Last year, leBron was 11 for 36
Kobe didn't take any last year

In 12/13

LeBron went 6 for 20

Kobe was 4 for 27

In 11/12

LeBron went 14 for 32
Kobe went 2 for 17

In 10/11

LeBron went 13 for 40
Kobe went 2 for 18

In 09/10

LeBron went 11 for 57
Kobe went 8 for 30

In 08/09

LeBron went 13 for 48
Kobe went 7 for 23

In 07/08

LeBron went 12 for 35
Kobe went 4 for 30

In 06/07

LeBron went 9 for 37
Kobe went 5 for 31

In 05/06

LeBron went 9 for 43
Kobe went 14 for 49

In 04/05

LeBron went 9 for 30
Kobe went 4 for 31

In 03/04

LeBron went 2 for 27
Kobe went 3 for 25

In total:

LeBron has gone 110 out of 410 (26.8%)

Kobe has gone 53 out of 284 (18.7%)

I am aware that this is what you are asking.

Not only does LeBron take these shots with less than a second left in a quarter left more than Kobe, but he also makes them significantly more often.

Okay... Why are you showing me his stats in comparison to kobe?

Jeffy25
12-10-2014, 03:02 AM
Okay... Why are you showing me his stats in comparison to kobe?

Because it's obviously what you are asking (your history isn't very transparent)


Regardless he takes these last second shots more than literally anybody else in the NBA, so the idea that he avoids this is blatantly false.

jerellh528
12-10-2014, 03:04 AM
Dont you guys want to end this kobe v james stuff. Yet you all continue to bring up the comps. I swear, i hate nba forum

jerellh528
12-10-2014, 03:05 AM
Because it's obviously what you are asking (your history isn't very transparent)


Regardless he takes these last second shots more than literally anybody else in the NBA, so the idea that he avoids this is blatantly false.

I wasnt asking for anything. I made a sttement about lebron and you shove lebron v kobe stats at me....

Jeffy25
12-10-2014, 03:08 AM
I wasnt asking for anything. I made a sttement about lebron and you shove lebron v kobe stats at me....

Actually, I wasn't the first one to bring him up (he's been brought up about 4 times already in this thread).

And you said 'Lebron is the king of this' (avoiding last second shots)

Well I brought up his last second shot attempts throughout his career, and as a reference I compared him to Kobe, who we all know you love, and it shows that Lebron has almost taken twice as many of these shots, while also making twice as many.....

Lebron isn't the king of this at all, he has literally taken these shots more than anyone else in the league.

Jeffy25
12-10-2014, 03:09 AM
Dont you guys want to end this kobe v james stuff. Yet you all continue to bring up the comps. I swear, i hate nba forum

You and illusionist literally do it more than anyone else in this forum....

jerellh528
12-10-2014, 03:10 AM
Actually, I wasn't the first one to bring him up (he's been brought up about 4 times already in this thread).

And you said 'Lebron is the king of this' (avoiding last second shots)

Well I brought up his last second shot attempts throughout his career, and as a reference I compared him to Kobe, who we all know you love, and it shows that Lebron has almost taken twice as many of these shots, while also making twice as many.....

Lebron isn't the king of this at all, he has literally taken these shots more than anyone else in the league.
Exactly, hes the king of them

jerellh528
12-10-2014, 03:12 AM
You and illusionist literally do it more than anyone else in this forum....

No i dont, prove it. When was the last time i have done this?

Jeffy25
12-10-2014, 03:12 AM
Exactly, hes the king of them

He's the king of avoiding last second shots?

jerellh528
12-10-2014, 03:17 AM
im not talking about this anymore jeffy. Id like to be a mod one day, this stuff doesnt bode well for my case.

Chronz
12-10-2014, 04:10 AM
Lots of backtracking from the you know what I see.

lol. Jeffy has shredded this irrelevant thread. You guys really need to drop it while your down.

Chronz
12-10-2014, 04:13 AM
I still stand by my stance that D.Rose always seemed to take a very low percentage last second shot at least 2-3 times/game. Most were technically not "heaves" per definition. I don't even know how to actually research this, but just going on memory.

Dont worry bro, nobody blames a D-Rose fan for backing D-Rose. Just dont expect those of us who watch more games outside of Chicago for not buying whatever it is you're selling. Its really not that significant of a factor.

Jeffy25
12-10-2014, 04:21 AM
I still stand by my stance that D.Rose always seemed to take a very low percentage last second shot at least 2-3 times/game. Most were technically not "heaves" per definition. I don't even know how to actually research this, but just going on memory.

If you want to know, for the record, how to research this. Basketball reference has a shot index that you can isolate whatever you like.

Rose took 51 of these last second shots in his MVP season.

Chronz
12-10-2014, 04:33 AM
If you want to know, for the record, how to research this. Basketball reference has a shot index that you can isolate whatever you like.

Rose took 51 of these last second shots in his MVP season.

Pretty much what I said in P1. Hopefully someone will make the point for him better than you have because I really dont see the purpose of this thread. Its like when people ***** about flopping instead of the other 99.8% of a players DNA.

thenaj17
12-10-2014, 07:12 AM
really? 47 of Kobe's 24,839 attempts were heaves, most in any year was 6.

Its always happened.

47? Not sure where that site got that figure from. Kobe's always heaving the ball...oh did you mean at end of quarters? My bad..

Chrisclover
12-10-2014, 08:32 AM
The most impressive one was from Marcus Camby, whom hit it from the other end of the court when he grabbed the rebound. Too bad the shot clock expired and it did not count.

Chrisclover
12-10-2014, 08:34 AM
its not too big of a deal to me but personally, if i was in the NBA i would try it every single time i get a shot at it. I mean, yes most of the time you are gonna miss and its gonna drop your FG% slightly but hitting such a shot can give you such a momentum boost. Like for instance you make a big run at the end of a 2nd quarter and then make a buzzer beater to take the lead into halftime or something. gives you a lot of confidence etc. etc.
You sure that you would not get too heady and start missing shots afterwards?lol

Hawkeye15
12-10-2014, 12:09 PM
47? Not sure where that site got that figure from. Kobe's always heaving the ball...oh did you mean at end of quarters? My bad..

haha

Hawkeye15
12-10-2014, 12:09 PM
I don't think Durant even has 1 heave from beyond halfcourt, because I honestly don't think he is strong enough to get the ball to the rim, so why bother