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Vee-Rex
12-05-2014, 11:27 PM
So we won 6 straight now, handling the Wizards and dismantling the Raptors in Toronto who are supposed to be the best in the East (without Derozan but I always thought he was extremely overrated anyway. He's just a high flying chucker who takes bad shots all the time IMO).

We already beat the Bulls and we are only gonna get better as we continue to gel and build chemistry. Kyrie's defense and passing has been looking fairly good lately and the entire team has been responding much better to opponents making runs.

Even Dion has been passing more and creating high percentage shots.

So who has a chance to win the East? In May in the playoffs when the Cavs have had the whole season to solidify their team play, will anyone in the East truly be able to stop them? I think not. What do you think?

DR_1
12-05-2014, 11:28 PM
Premature.

bucketss
12-05-2014, 11:29 PM
Premature.

ChI_ShIzzLe
12-05-2014, 11:32 PM
Bulls handled the Raptors at their place too. So why aren't we the best? Records are the same despite us playing double the road games than home games. You see, way too early for this talk.

Cal827
12-05-2014, 11:32 PM
Premature.

bucketss
12-05-2014, 11:34 PM
Bulls handled the Raptors at their place too. So why aren't we the best? Records are the same despite us playing double the road games than home games. You see, way too early for this talk.

you did with derozan playing to.

bucketss
12-05-2014, 11:36 PM
i also disagree with OP saying derozan is overrated. hes an allstar who the cavs would have to game plan for.

FriedTofuz
12-05-2014, 11:36 PM
premature

Miltstar
12-05-2014, 11:38 PM
So we won 6 straight now, handling the Wizards and dismantling the Raptors in Toronto who are supposed to be the best in the East (without Derozan but I always thought he was extremely overrated anyway. He's just a high flying chucker who takes bad shots all the time IMO).

We already beat the Bulls and we are only gonna get better as we continue to gel and build chemistry. Kyrie's defense and passing has been looking fairly good lately and the entire team has been responding much better to opponents making runs.

Even Dion has been passing more and creating high percentage shots.

So who has a chance to win the East? In May in the playoffs when the Cavs have had the whole season to solidify their team play, will anyone in the East truly be able to stop them? I think not. What do you think?

How quickly you forget the whoopin we put on you in Cleveland... At least our fans stayed till the end...

Stunner
12-05-2014, 11:39 PM
" we beat the bulls " no butler , Rose leaves game; barely won that game .

mngopher35
12-05-2014, 11:55 PM
Premature

Vee-Rex
12-05-2014, 11:57 PM
Virtually 25% of the way through the season... it's called speculation. I didn't see all these 'premature' posts when the Cavs were 0-1 to start the year and there were like 10 threads up calling the team a failure lol.

Even with Rose fully healthy and in his prime, the Bulls couldn't beat LBJ. I don't see them doing it now. That team is running off the steam of a terrific defense and players, but they need a healthy Rose and another piece (like Melo) to win the title.

Raptors are pretenders. http://espn.go.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/Tor/toronto-raptors

There's their schedule. They only beat one good team and that was Memphis... and as great of a team Memphis is, they are not the best in the west. They've just had a hot start.

So while it's too early to declare who's the best... I will say I think the Cavs are it, and we'll finish 1st in the East. Toronto is only number one in the East now because of inheritance. Pacers too injured, Heat lost LBJ, and so naturally Toronto finishing 3rd seed is atop right now but it won't last.

Stunner
12-06-2014, 12:02 AM
Hilarious

FriedTofuz
12-06-2014, 12:04 AM
so as soon as the cavs go on a winning streak they're now the best?
The raptors were on a 6 game winning streak and were at the top of the conference and not a single raptor thread was made. good job cavs fans.

Cal827
12-06-2014, 12:06 AM
^ To Be Fair, it's just a few Cav Homers like Confusius.... Guys like Archie are pretty cool lol

Can't generalize a fan base on one comment you don't like, :p

Vee-Rex
12-06-2014, 12:09 AM
That's because the Raptors are pretenders... no one took them seriously at all. Cavs lose one game and threads pop up all over PSD like pop-o-matic.

I hate to be THAT fan but... yeah, PSD deserves it. I miss the trolling Heat fans and see they did it because of so many haters. Anyway, in January the Cavs will be atop the East. Raptors got a brutal west trip at the end of December.

jerellh528
12-06-2014, 12:15 AM
MAybe. They definatley should be with thAt roster and 3 all stars

FriedTofuz
12-06-2014, 12:17 AM
^ To Be Fair, it's just a few Cav Homers like Confusius.... Guys like Archie are pretty cool lol

Can't generalize a fan base on one comment you don't like, :p

Confusius is very biased but the OP was still an overreaction thread. It's a 6 game winning streak for a team starting to figure it out, yet they're 4th in the eastern conference. I dont think it's generalizing, I think that Post was unfair considering there's stll many games to go through. Dont make comments to baits posters just because you dont like them.

still1ballin
12-06-2014, 12:25 AM
Premature

Vee-Rex
12-06-2014, 12:26 AM
MAybe. They definatley should be with thAt roster and 3 all stars

Definitely and hopefully.

I think we win in Brooklyn and beat Toronto in Cleveland to extend it to 8 games. Then we may lose in OKC if Durant is healthy, and after that we might lose in New Orleans. Pelicans are such a good team, sucks for them they're in the west.

Cal827
12-06-2014, 12:28 AM
Premature

You missed the :dance:

Cal827
12-06-2014, 12:31 AM
Confusius is very biased but the OP was still an overreaction thread. It's a 6 game winning streak for a team starting to figure it out, yet they're 4th in the eastern conference. I dont think it's generalizing, I think that Post was unfair considering there's stll many games to go through. Dont make comments to baits posters just because you dont like them.

:laugh: Who says I dislike you? I think you're a bit of a troll, but I know you're a diehard Raptor fan deep down. I also find it a little funny/unfortunate that seems like each time you refer to something good on the Raptors, something bad happens (e.g. Derozan never getting hurt).

Cal827
12-06-2014, 12:35 AM
Definitely and hopefully.

I think we win in Brooklyn and beat Toronto in Cleveland to extend it to 8 games. Then we may lose in OKC if Durant is healthy, and after that we might lose in New Orleans. Pelicans are such a good team, sucks for them they're in the west.

They seem to be more in sync. I think their next loss is in OKC, but if Cleveland overlooks them after winning today, they might lose to Toronto in Cleveland again.

After the short Western Road trip, you guys do have a 5 game homestand with some very, winnable games (other than the Memphis game), before heading to Miami. That might be the time where the team starts to lift off.

FriedTofuz
12-06-2014, 12:53 AM
:laugh: Who says I dislike you? I think you're a bit of a troll, but I know you're a diehard Raptor fan deep down. I also find it a little funny/unfortunate that seems like each time you refer to something good on the Raptors, something bad happens (e.g. Derozan never getting hurt).

well man it gets annoying :(
all these other raptor fans give me **** as if im the only one who says something bad about the knicks jeez LOL.

And yeah I really did jinx that, we're sucking eggs without him against good teams.

Vee-Rex
12-06-2014, 12:59 AM
I hope the team lifts off for sure, and even though we're playing better I still see stretches where we shoot ourselves with the turnovers from trying to pass too much and putting up bricks from not passing enough. Just gotta find that groove somehow.

Sorry if I offended anyone... just gotta throw in an overly optimistic Cavs thread amidst all the hating ones. But unlike previous years with number one seeds, I do see the Cavs finishing atop the East convincingly. Ciao!

ChI_ShIzzLe
12-06-2014, 01:27 AM
Even with Rose fully healthy and in his prime, the Bulls couldn't beat LBJ. I don't see them doing it now. That team is running off the steam of a terrific defense and players, but they need a healthy Rose and another piece (like Melo) to win the title.

"Terrific defense and players"
The 2 primary keys to winning a championship. What's your point?

"Another piece like Melo"
So I guess having a 20 & 10 seven-footer and a rising star that's leading the team in scoring and is an all-NBA defender aren't enough. We still need Melo. We're doomed.

JordansBulls
12-06-2014, 01:41 AM
Cleveland beat Chicago with Jimmy not playing and Toronto with Derozan not playing.

lamzoka
12-06-2014, 01:41 AM
Premature

But Cavs will be the 1 seed when it's all said and done

dtmagnet
12-06-2014, 02:16 AM
No, I don't think they are.

Kyben36
12-06-2014, 03:09 AM
way premature and lockable, Homerism threads like this are rediculous, this is not a conversation or asking because if somebody gives his opinion its just him repeating LBJ is great and we won 6 games in a row.

LA Clippers went on a 17 game win streek in 2013-14, Houston on a 22 game win streek in 07-08, but nobody cares, how about worrying about fixing the problems that you have, which mainly revolves around your defense ( or lack there of) before jumping into these ridiculous threads,

benny01
12-06-2014, 04:00 AM
way premature and lockable, Homerism threads like this are rediculous, this is not a conversation or asking because if somebody gives his opinion its just him repeating LBJ is great and we won 6 games in a row.
nailed it

More-Than-Most
12-06-2014, 05:51 AM
lol check all the other threads 6 games ago before people use the premature crap... we even have a lebron is on the decline thread xD... 25/6/8 is decline on a brand new team with a brand new supporting cast and coach.

JustinTime
12-06-2014, 06:11 AM
Raptors lost to the Lakers the other day without Derozan and beat the Cavs by like 20 with him way too early. I'm not saying that Derozan is that good either it's just that the Raptors are still learning to play without him.

JV35
12-06-2014, 07:13 AM
Speaking of Tristan Thompson, I have to admit, 9 OREB v Toronto was pretty special.

Minimal
12-06-2014, 08:00 AM
Nothing makes this thread worse than it being created by a Cavs fan.

bledrules
12-06-2014, 08:42 AM
Cleveland beat Chicago with Jimmy not playing and Toronto with Derozan not playing.

And beat Washington without Nene and Webster
I cant decide whats worse the closet Heat fans or the closet Cavalier fans

PurpleLynch
12-06-2014, 08:52 AM
No. At the end of the season they should be a top 4 team in the East,but right now they aren't the best in the East(and maybe this year they won't be:Bulls,Wizs,Hawks and Raps are playing really well).

LAKobeBryant
12-06-2014, 08:55 AM
Shouldn't you wait until Tuesday to make a thread and get so excited when raps play cavs for third time

FraziersKnicks
12-06-2014, 09:52 AM
People get all defensive saying this thread is premature but they're the same people who were creating threads about Love leaving and how bad the Cavs were after about 5 games.

I'm not saying this thread should be allowed but they're starting to put it together and they're only gonna get better from here on out. It doesn't help that most of the people in this thread are Bulls and Raps fans who can already feel them breathing down their neck.

By the end of the season I predict the Cavs will be an offensive juggernaut and a top 10 defensive team finishing with the #1 seed in the East. They're gonna be really really dangerous when they've had 80+ game of playing together, and that's a very scary prospect for the Bulls/Raps/Wiz etc.

RateSports
12-06-2014, 10:11 AM
Even Dion has been passing more and creating high percentage shots.

This did make me laugh

jmartin80
12-06-2014, 10:28 AM
And it only took the NBA giving the Cavs 3 #1 overall picks in 4 years, the best player in the world deciding to join your team and being able to trade for one of the best power forwards in the game.

Gratz I guess. If they aren't the best by the end, then I don't know what to say. Early thread, but there is no excuses for them not to be.

Necrosis
12-06-2014, 10:36 AM
Virtually 25% of the way through the season... it's called speculation. I didn't see all these 'premature' posts when the Cavs were 0-1 to start the year and there were like 10 threads up calling the team a failure lol.

Even with Rose fully healthy and in his prime, the Bulls couldn't beat LBJ. I don't see them doing it now. That team is running off the steam of a terrific defense and players, but they need a healthy Rose and another piece (like Melo) to win the title.

Raptors are pretenders. http://espn.go.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/Tor/toronto-raptors

There's their schedule. They only beat one good team and that was Memphis... and as great of a team Memphis is, they are not the best in the west. They've just had a hot start.

So while it's too early to declare who's the best... I will say I think the Cavs are it, and we'll finish 1st in the East. Toronto is only number one in the East now because of inheritance. Pacers too injured, Heat lost LBJ, and so naturally Toronto finishing 3rd seed is atop right now but it won't last.

The raptors beat memphis, washington, cleveland etc. Last night was a good game the raptors were missing a lot of shots they normally make and where missing there all star derozan. It's a little early, but the cavs have all the talent in the world, they could use more shooting on the wing. Same **** about the raptors, remember the lightning in a bottle ******** thread, they are an elite team whether you like it or not.

I don't think they could beat the cavs in a 7 game series, LBJ is too good when he gets going. I also would be worried about the bulls, they are ahead of the heat in my mind when firing on all cylinders and coaching is huge in the playoffs. Raps are third right now in my mind but it would be very close and it really depends on how the young guys pan out.

Waiters is really bad by the way. that is a chucker.

mightybosstone
12-06-2014, 10:49 AM
I predicted the Cavs would be atop the conference by the end of the season, and I stick by that prediction. Hell, they may already be better than all the other teams in the East. But OP is clearly trying to troll with this thread. The Cavs went on a six-game winning streak. Congrats. They beat banged up versions of Chicago and Toronto. Good job.

But they're still fifth in the standings and third in point differential in the East. Until they climb to the top of the standings and show some consistency, I'm not not ready to crown them as the best in the conference.

Vee-Rex
12-06-2014, 12:31 PM
People get all defensive saying this thread is premature but they're the same people who were creating threads about Love leaving and how bad the Cavs were after about 5 games.

I'm not saying this thread should be allowed but they're starting to put it together and they're only gonna get better from here on out. It doesn't help that most of the people in this thread are Bulls and Raps fans who can already feel them breathing down their neck.

By the end of the season I predict the Cavs will be an offensive juggernaut and a top 10 defensive team finishing with the #1 seed in the East. They're gonna be really really dangerous when they've had 80+ game of playing together, and that's a very scary prospect for the Bulls/Raps/Wiz etc.

Haha, you nailed it.

I created a positive Cavs thread and people are butthurt over it.

I've seen so many insane threads bashing the Cavs... check the dates, even after that first loss to the Knicks people were going nuts. So yes, when we go on a 6 game winning streak you better believe I'll make a thread about it. And if anyone thinks the Bulls or Raptors will finish atop the East then sig bet with me.

Crackadalic
12-06-2014, 12:36 PM
Yes. Three all stars will eventually figure it out and they will be coming out of the east this year.

FriedTofuz
12-06-2014, 12:47 PM
I predicted the Cavs would be atop the conference by the end of the season, and I stick by that conference. Hell, they may already be better than all the other teams in the East. But OP is clearly trying to troll with this thread. The Cavs went on a six-game winning streak. Congrats. They beat banged up versions of Chicago and Toronto. Good job.

But they're still fifth in the standings and third in point differential in the East. Until they climb to the top of the standings and show some consistency, I'm not not ready to crown them as the best in the conference.

This.

nastynice
12-06-2014, 01:14 PM
calling them the best in the east is premature.

But creating a thread discussing wether they are or not isn't. In fact, its very mature.

This is what we were all waiting for, seeing if the Cavs can start getting that talent to click. Definitely seems that they have. But given how impressive some of the other teams have been, I don't think its time to crown anyone just yet. imo the Cavs will be the best team in the east by the end of the season, but even if they are, they're probably gonna have a really tough series or two to get through in order to get to the finals.

I still don't view them as a well built team, but I never viewed miami as one either and they still won twice. Talent alone will be enough to make them the favorite coming out of the east, as long as the x's and o's aren't 100% garbage.

Jamiecballer
12-06-2014, 01:36 PM
I guess it's premature but there are definitely signs that they may just figure it out. If that is the case, then yes they will be the best team in the East. But ego's will be tested over a long season so there is no guarantee this group reaches their potential.

Confusious
12-07-2014, 01:00 PM
^ To Be Fair, it's just a few Cav Homers like Confusius.... Guys like Archie are pretty cool lol

Can't generalize a fan base on one comment you don't like, :p
I didn't even post in this thread until now lmao. What did I do?

This thread is about as premature as everybody that was laughing at the Cavaliers record. And those that are laughing and saying that LeBron is on the decline. Pretty cute how one guy makes a positive statement about the team, and everybody's going around saying how premature it is. I just think everybody wants Cleveland to fail. And that's a good feeling. Stop being so salty dudes.

Miltstar
12-07-2014, 06:14 PM
There's their schedule. They only beat one good team and that was Memphis... .

So according to you the Cavs aren't a good team?? Cuz we absolutely demolished you in Cleveland when both teams were at full health...

smiddy012
12-07-2014, 06:38 PM
That's because the Raptors are pretenders... no one took them seriously at all. Cavs lose one game and threads pop up all over PSD like pop-o-matic.

I hate to be THAT fan but... yeah, PSD deserves it. I miss the trolling Heat fans and see they did it because of so many haters. Anyway, in January the Cavs will be atop the East. Raptors got a brutal west trip at the end of December.

This comment makes question your sanity.

Munkeysuit
12-07-2014, 07:01 PM
Huge Lebron fan here, not much of a Cavs fan but root for them by default lol, the Cavs are NOT the best in the East and are not even close to it! I feel like the Raptors are the best team in the East at the moment, but because DeRozan is out, they obviously have their struggles right now, but still feel they are the team to beat.
I also feel like Chicago and Washington are better teams than Cleveland, and would place Cleveland at even odds with Atlanta for 4th place at the moment.

koreancabbage
12-07-2014, 07:24 PM
to the OP:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/standings/?alias=conference&season=

now STFU

Cal827
12-07-2014, 08:02 PM
:laugh:

On a side note, shouldn't we be talking about Atlanta right now? Where in the **** did they come from? Great Start for now

mike_noodles
12-07-2014, 08:30 PM
Premature.

Vee-Rex
12-07-2014, 08:35 PM
So according to you the Cavs aren't a good team?? Cuz we absolutely demolished you in Cleveland when both teams were at full health...

Cavs are a steadily improving team... and no, at that time they weren't good. Aren't great now either but the potential is higher than any other East team.

Simple logic a 2nd grader could understand.

benny01
12-07-2014, 08:38 PM
Cavs are a steadily improving team... and no, at that time they weren't good. Aren't great now either but the potential is higher than any other East team.

Simple logic a 2nd grader could understand.
If it's second grader logic your after look at the OP.

koreancabbage
12-07-2014, 08:38 PM
Cavs are a steadily improving team... and no, at that time they weren't good. Aren't great now either but the potential is higher than any other East team.

Simple logic a 2nd grader could understand.

2nd graders don't come premature like you do.

Vee-Rex
12-07-2014, 08:41 PM
to the OP:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/standings/?alias=conference&season=

now STFU

I hope you aren't going by win/loss records to determine who is the best right now, lol. I wonder how OKC fans would feel about that.

The NBA season is dynamic. There are many, many factors from injuries to schedule to chemistry that plays into a team's record. At this given moment, OKC (most healthy they've been all season) are a better team than their record would indicate.

Vee-Rex
12-07-2014, 08:43 PM
2nd graders don't come premature like you do.

You're a Raptor fan... sig bet me. Raptors finish the season over the Cavs, I never post on PSD again. Cavs finish above the Raptors, you never post on PSD.

You even got a headstart too! So put up or STFU.

koreancabbage
12-07-2014, 08:50 PM
You're a Raptor fan... sig bet me. Raptors finish the season over the Cavs, I never post on PSD again. Cavs finish above the Raptors, you never post on PSD.

You even got a headstart too! So put up or STFU.

Everyone knows the Cavs should finish as the top seed. why would I sig bet that when I already believe that the Cavs would finish first. I predicted the Raptors would finish probably 3rd.

it would be a shame if the Cavs didn't finish first.

EDIT: and besides you asked if the Cavs are playing like the best team in the East right now? No, they aren't they are 6-4 in their last 10 while Atlanta has been 8-2. Atlanta is playing like the best team in the East right now, who are also conveniently ahead of Cleveland in the standings.

Vee-Rex
12-07-2014, 09:01 PM
Well STFU then.

I can have a reasonable discussion on who is the best in the East right now. I believe it's the Cavs, but the Hawks have been playing well. I don't think they have enough talent to be considered better than the 'improving' Cavs at this moment, sort of evidenced by them losing by 33 points in Cleveland.

You're going by last 10 and I think over the past 6 games Cleveland has improved tremendously. I'm not basing this off wins, I'm basing it off having watched every single second of every one of their games this year.

So agree to disagree is fine with me. :)

Edit: Actually, I've seen improvement in the Cavs last 9 games. 2 point loss to the Spurs who are simply a better team. Against the Wizards we played good defense but we were missing so many open shots, just a bad shooting performance. And against the Raptors they just outplayed us... they were the better team that night because we reverted back to hero ball and couldn't stay disciplined when they made their runs.

Every person that has said premature is correct... I mean, there's no way to know for sure. I'm just speculating based off watching the games.

Cal827
12-07-2014, 09:14 PM
^..... Well, that Escalated quickly.

koreancabbage
12-07-2014, 09:17 PM
^..... Well, that Escalated quickly.

premature

koreancabbage
12-07-2014, 09:19 PM
Well STFU then.

I can have a reasonable discussion on who is the best in the East right now. I believe it's the Cavs, but the Hawks have been playing well. I don't think they have enough talent to be considered better than the 'improving' Cavs at this moment, sort of evidenced by them losing by 33 points in Cleveland.

You're going by last 10 and I think over the past 6 games Cleveland has improved tremendously. I'm not basing this off wins, I'm basing it off having watched every single second of every one of their games this year.

So agree to disagree is fine with me. :)

Edit: Actually, I've seen improvement in the Cavs last 9 games. 2 point loss to the Spurs who are simply a better team. Against the Wizards we played good defense but we were missing so many open shots, just a bad shooting performance. And against the Raptors they just outplayed us... they were the better team that night because we reverted back to hero ball and couldn't stay disciplined when they made their runs.

Every person that has said premature is correct... I mean, there's no way to know for sure. I'm just speculating based off watching the games.

well duh, I think a reasonable fan can assume that the Cavs would progress over time. EVeryone knows they are most talented team in the East and by chances of their talent alone, would be the best team in the East by season's end.

In the last 6 games, sure. they have been beasting. The season thus far? no way. Cavs had a 4 game losing streak just recently.

Bigbadmoffo
12-07-2014, 10:32 PM
Well STFU then.

I can have a reasonable discussion on who is the best in the East right now. I believe it's the Cavs, but the Hawks have been playing well. I don't think they have enough talent to be considered better than the 'improving' Cavs at this moment, sort of evidenced by them losing by 33 points in Cleveland.

You're going by last 10 and I think over the past 6 games Cleveland has improved tremendously. I'm not basing this off wins, I'm basing it off having watched every single second of every one of their games this year.

So agree to disagree is fine with me. :)

Edit: Actually, I've seen improvement in the Cavs last 9 games. 2 point loss to the Spurs who are simply a better team. Against the Wizards we played good defense but we were missing so many open shots, just a bad shooting performance. And against the Raptors they just outplayed us... they were the better team that night because we reverted back to hero ball and couldn't stay disciplined when they made their runs.

Every person that has said premature is correct... I mean, there's no way to know for sure. I'm just speculating based off watching the games.

I watched that game against the Raptors and the fact that they had it withing five in the fourth is sad as hell. Toronto was missing every open shot while Cleveland was hitting contested shots. When you beat Toronto at there best then I will agree that Cleveland is better.

IndiansFan337
12-08-2014, 01:58 AM
The top 3 East contenders are Cleveland, Chicago, and Washington. Toronto is good, but their peak level isn't as high as those other three teams.

Cleveland actually might have less uncertainty than those other two teams. It is difficult to say what the status of Rose will be in April/May and Noah is currently banged up too. Nene and Beal are always injury concerns for the Wizards.

FriedTofuz
12-08-2014, 03:56 AM
The top 3 East contenders are Cleveland, Chicago, and Washington. Toronto is good, but their peak level isn't as high as those other three teams.

Cleveland actually might have less uncertainty than those other two teams. It is difficult to say what the status of Rose will be in April/May and Noah is currently banged up too. Nene and Beal are always injury concerns for the Wizards.

Id disagree, Toronto is a lot better than washington. There the only team in the NBA who matches up very well against washington, it's always a blowout game against the wizards. Honestly, tht's an unfair statement considering those teams are not even pulling up to the projections which were said about them.

FlashBolt
12-08-2014, 04:04 AM
People can talk about Raptors missing DeRozan, but let's not forget that those guys are used to each other. Cleveland isn't even at full strength. Love and James are playing below average.. Irving is only playing efficient because he doesn't have to do as much on the offensive end. It's Irving's defense that has surprised me. The fact that he is willing to acknowledge his lack of defense and make it a mission to improve it, really shows the type of player he is. I can't wait to see Love/James/Irving click 100%. Remember, it took Bosh/Wade/James a year and there were questions being raised. They might never click but you're lying to yourself if you think this is as good as it gets for Cleveland Cavailers. Heck, once they trade Waiters, this team would already look better.

MonroeFAN
12-08-2014, 06:34 AM
Cleveland is definitely the best in the East and have been the entire time. Everyone who isn't a little girl running around with their arms in the air over a slow start recognized this immediately.

Miltstar
12-08-2014, 09:22 AM
People can talk about Raptors missing DeRozan

Take Kyrie or Lebron off of the Cavs for a month and see how they do! Say what you want about Derozan but teams game plan against him, when he's not there it's easier for defenses to key in on other guys. Valenciunas is getting real close to taking that next step and becoming a force in this league. If the Cavs don't win this year Lebron will likely relocate, that's his MO

Raps have something Cleveland doesn't and that is heart

koreancabbage
12-08-2014, 09:58 AM
The top 3 East contenders are Cleveland, Chicago, and Washington. Toronto is good, but their peak level isn't as high as those other three teams.

Cleveland actually might have less uncertainty than those other two teams. It is difficult to say what the status of Rose will be in April/May and Noah is currently banged up too. Nene and Beal are always injury concerns for the Wizards.

Washington is overrated.

LAKobeBryant
12-08-2014, 10:49 AM
This thread is funny, asks a question then.......


Well STFU then.

Vee-Rex
12-08-2014, 03:14 PM
This thread is funny, asks a question then.......

Just responding in kind!

RenegadeRiot36
12-09-2014, 12:22 AM
Best in the east or not, they've won 7 games in a row now and are looking like they're clicking on all cylinders. If you're purposefully and idiotically looking at a 10 game sample (starting off with a 4 game losing streak beforehand) and ignoring the huge shift in play leading to 7 straight wins, you're simply manipulating stats for your own personal agenda and need to find something better to do.

DemarDerozan
12-09-2014, 12:31 AM
first round playoff exit. Only one valid player on their roster has playoff experience and he's on the decline.

bucketss
12-09-2014, 12:33 AM
Washington is overrated.

idk why everyone thinks the wiz are better than us, we have been killing them since last year.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2014, 01:18 AM
first round playoff exit. Only one valid player on their roster has playoff experience and he's on the decline.

Lol... Troll harder. This one lacked the umph your others had.

DemarDerozan
12-09-2014, 01:28 AM
Lol... Troll harder. This one lacked the umph your others had.

No trolling. I honestly think Toronto, Chicago, Washington and ATL, would take CLE in a seven game series. now if they finish with the third best record in the East then they have a shot. Adding 30 y/o James to your team doesn't automatically give KLove and Kyrie playoff experience. I would take Wall/Beal/Pierce, Lowry/DeRozan/JVal, and Horford/Millisap/Teague over James/KLove/Kyrie in the playoffs. I would take Thibs/Noah/Butler over Cleveland regardless of record or standing. Playoff are where grit and experience matter. Cleveland has none.
I would take KLove/Kyrie/LBJ in the all star game.

Minimal
12-09-2014, 01:46 AM
No trolling. I honestly think Toronto, Chicago, Washington and ATL, would take CLE in a seven game series. now if they finish with the third best record in the East then they have a shot. Adding 30 y/o James to your team doesn't automatically give KLove and Kyrie playoff experience. I would take Wall/Beal/Pierce, Lowry/DeRozan/JVal, and Horford/Millisap/Teague over James/KLove/Kyrie in the playoffs. I would take Thibs/Noah/Butler over Cleveland regardless of record or standing. Playoff are where grit and experience matter. Cleveland has none.
I would take KLove/Kyrie/LBJ in the all star game.
Sorry, but lets face it, by the end of the season this team will probably be the best in the east and its definitely gonna go deep in the playoffs with James on it. And its ironic that you say they are gonna be first round exit...so what exactly did Toronto, Atlanta, Washington, Bulls did in the playoffs lately?

Arch Stanton
12-09-2014, 01:57 AM
No trolling. I honestly think Toronto, Chicago, Washington and ATL, would take CLE in a seven game series. now if they finish with the third best record in the East then they have a shot. Adding 30 y/o James to your team doesn't automatically give KLove and Kyrie playoff experience. I would take Wall/Beal/Pierce, Lowry/DeRozan/JVal, and Horford/Millisap/Teague over James/KLove/Kyrie in the playoffs. I would take Thibs/Noah/Butler over Cleveland regardless of record or standing. Playoff are where grit and experience matter. Cleveland has none.
I would take KLove/Kyrie/LBJ in the all star game.

Why not throw Charlotte, Brooklyn, NY, and Miami ahead of them too because DUH they have more playoff experience :drunk:

DaBear
12-09-2014, 02:29 AM
Cavs aren't going to the Finals.

Chronz
12-09-2014, 02:37 AM
Yeah its getting scary now that they are starting to figure it out. Bron is saving his best for the playoffs so it will be a big boost.

Tony_Starks
12-09-2014, 02:40 AM
No, they are not. They don't even particularly stand out in the east and the east is pure 100% garbage.....

Vee-Rex
12-09-2014, 10:30 AM
No trolling. I honestly think Toronto, Chicago, Washington and ATL, would take CLE in a seven game series. now if they finish with the third best record in the East then they have a shot. Adding 30 y/o James to your team doesn't automatically give KLove and Kyrie playoff experience. I would take Wall/Beal/Pierce, Lowry/DeRozan/JVal, and Horford/Millisap/Teague over James/KLove/Kyrie in the playoffs. I would take Thibs/Noah/Butler over Cleveland regardless of record or standing. Playoff are where grit and experience matter. Cleveland has none.
I would take KLove/Kyrie/LBJ in the all star game.

You were also defending the clowns that said they would take George Hill over Kyrie Irving.

... so yeah your opinion is invalidated.

koreancabbage
12-09-2014, 10:44 AM
You were also defending the clowns that said they would take George Hill over Kyrie Irving.

... so yeah your opinion is invalidated.

LOL true dat

anyways. battle tonight. we will see if the Raptors can avenge last game.

GeronimoSon
12-09-2014, 10:57 AM
The NBA East has seen a slow evolution of teams that are putting together what they will become..

The team with the "upside" coming is clearly the Cavs.. The Cavs have played maybe two games where they played well and together (Wizard's Game and Raptor's Game; defense, rebounding, shot selection, P.T. allotment, etc..) They are just approaching the quarter pole & have only really had two of their nearly 20 games where you can say they are truly playing together as the team they can be. The rest of December & January should solidify some of the rotations.. much more to come and it will only get better

Pretty scary.. scary, indeed..

Tony_Starks
12-09-2014, 11:51 AM
first round playoff exit. Only one valid player on their roster has playoff experience and he's on the decline.

I'm not impressed by the Cavs at all but a first round exit is harsh. I don't think you can hold Kyrie's lack of playoff experience against him, he has been completely ballin this year and will probably keep it up in the post season. Actually he's been the best player on the team so far IMO...

Chronz
12-09-2014, 12:53 PM
No, they are not. They don't even particularly stand out in the east and the east is pure 100% garbage.....

How so? Are we counting the initial start against them? I hope you're smart enough to understand why a brand spanking new team would stumble out the gate. Once they took the ball out of Kyries hands, their ball movement has improved and their offense is better as a result. Since then their efficiency markers indicate a championship contender. What's scary is that they still have alot of room to grow on the O

Tony_Starks
12-09-2014, 01:14 PM
How so? Are we counting the initial start against them? I hope you're smart enough to understand why a brand spanking new team would stumble out the gate. Once they took the ball out of Kyries hands, their ball movement has improved and their offense is better as a result. Since then their efficiency markers indicate a championship contender. What's scary is that they still have alot of room to grow on the O

I don't hold their start against them at all. I said before the season started you can't really judge them until after allstar break. Look it up. But unless they make a trade ( which they are apparently entertaining by the way) the interior defense is really bad and that's one thing that isn't going to change....

Arch Stanton
12-09-2014, 01:23 PM
I don't hold their start against them at all. I said before the season started you can't really judge them until after allstar break. Look it up. But unless they make a trade ( which they are apparently entertaining by the way) the interior defense is really bad and that's one thing that isn't going to change....


Cleveland's season-long defensive rating has been improving for nearly a month, to the point where the Cavaliers now rank 15th over the course of the season and sixth in the league over the last 10 games, per NBA.com/Stats.

- Per Kevin Pelton

Chronz
12-09-2014, 01:35 PM
I don't hold their start against them at all. I said before the season started you can't really judge them until after allstar break. Look it up. But unless they make a trade ( which they are apparently entertaining by the way) the interior defense is really bad and that's one thing that isn't going to change....
I don't see why it has to for them to "stand out" out East.

pebloemer
12-09-2014, 01:40 PM
The NBA East has seen a slow evolution of teams that are putting together what they will become..

The team with the "upside" coming is clearly the Cavs.. The Cavs have played maybe two games where they played well and together (Wizard's Game and Raptor's Game; defense, rebounding, shot selection, P.T. allotment, etc..) They are just approaching the quarter pole & have only really had two of their nearly 20 games where you can say they are truly playing together as the team they can be. The rest of December & January should solidify some of the rotations.. much more to come and it will only get better

Pretty scary.. scary, indeed..

To be honest, I didn't think either team played particularly well that game. It will be interesting to watch the matchup again tonight!

Although I did notice the Cavs doing much better sharing the ball and rotating on defense. I definitely think they are starting to show their potential, but they could easily be much better (and they will be later in the year).

I still think a healthy Chicago is the best team in the East right now, but it will be interesting to see how good this Cleveland team actually gets.

As an aside, what is going on with Miami? I feel they should be around the same caliber as Washington, Atlanta, Toronto, but they really seem to be struggling lately.

Hawkize31
12-09-2014, 01:49 PM
" we beat the bulls " no butler , Rose leaves game; barely won that game .

Shocker.

Vampirate
12-09-2014, 03:18 PM
The Cavs at the end of the year 'should' have the best record but until they are the #1 seed you cannot say this.

That being said the Raptors are starting to fall with Derozan out.

Tony_Starks
12-09-2014, 04:56 PM
If D Rose were to sit out the rest of the season the Bulls would still be better than the Cavs. Better coaching, more well rounded team, better defensive philosophy.

If Rose plays at minimum capacity throughout the season it's not even a conversation.

flea
12-09-2014, 05:13 PM
Their 7 game winning streak has been entirely against teams in the East, and only two of the wins could you call really "quality" wins (with one of those being against a team without their best player). I'm not sure that's anything to wet your pants about yet.

They've played 6 west teams so far and are 2-4 against them (including losing the season sweep to the Nuggets and dropping a game to the Jazz). So really, we're saying we're all impressed now because of an OT win vs. the Bulls, a win against New Orleans, and splits with the Wizards and Raptors? Yawn.

In the games I've watched I've still seen a very flawed team. I don't think they're a top 10 team in the half court on offense or defense - but in transition they probably are. I said they'll likely be a top 3 seed in the East before the season and that they'll be a top 10 offense, but mid pack (~12-17) defense. I stand by that unless they get the rim protector they desperately want.

Confusious
12-09-2014, 06:34 PM
Cavs are a steadily improving team... and no, at that time they weren't good. Aren't great now either but the potential is higher than any other East team.

Simple logic a 2nd grader could understand.
What does a second grader have to do with anything? Are you an expert on them?

Are you one of those creepy dudes that drive really slow at an elementary school parking lot, with your tongue hanging out the window? I know you like Cleveland, but that's kinda ****ed up dude.

FraziersKnicks
12-09-2014, 06:47 PM
If D Rose were to sit out the rest of the season the Bulls would still be better than the Cavs. Better coaching, more well rounded team, better defensive philosophy.

If Rose plays at minimum capacity throughout the season it's not even a conversation.

A Cavs fan needs to sig bet this right away.

koreancabbage
12-09-2014, 06:59 PM
If D Rose were to sit out the rest of the season the Bulls would still be better than the Cavs. Better coaching, more well rounded team, better defensive philosophy.

If Rose plays at minimum capacity throughout the season it's not even a conversation.

stop causing a commotion in here lol

all Chicago is going to do is run itself to the ground by season's end. thats the motto of the Bulls, play till you can't. Thibs is gonna run his team into the ground as usual.

Crackadalic
12-09-2014, 07:04 PM
Cavs have the most talent in the east

They will come out of the east this year. Don't think they have enough to win a title though

Chronz
12-09-2014, 07:56 PM
Their 7 game winning streak has been entirely against teams in the East, and only two of the wins could you call really "quality" wins (with one of those being against a team without their best player). I'm not sure that's anything to wet your pants about yet.

They've played 6 west teams so far and are 2-4 against them (including losing the season sweep to the Nuggets and dropping a game to the Jazz). So really, we're saying we're all impressed now because of an OT win vs. the Bulls, a win against New Orleans, and splits with the Wizards and Raptors? Yawn.

In the games I've watched I've still seen a very flawed team. I don't think they're a top 10 team in the half court on offense or defense - but in transition they probably are. I said they'll likely be a top 3 seed in the East before the season and that they'll be a top 10 offense, but mid pack (~12-17) defense. I stand by that unless they get the rim protector they desperately want.
So long as you dominate, it doesn't really matter who they play.
I only have the Bulls as a team worthy of consideration out East and Cleveland it's right there with them

lamzoka
12-09-2014, 08:23 PM
If D Rose were to sit out the rest of the season the Bulls would still be better than the Cavs. Better coaching, more well rounded team, better defensive philosophy.

If Rose plays at minimum capacity throughout the season it's not even a conversation.

I disagree with this.

Bulls will not get the top seed w/ Rose or W/O Rose. They're overrated.

DR_1
12-09-2014, 08:44 PM
stop causing a commotion in here lol

all Chicago is going to do is run itself to the ground by season's end. thats the motto of the Bulls, play till you can't. Thibs is gonna run his team into the ground as usual.

Thibs has never run a Bulls team into the ground.

koreancabbage
12-09-2014, 09:12 PM
Thibs has never run a Bulls team into the ground.

i.e. play starters too much. Chicago, looking back the last 5 years, have never really been a true contender even though everyone says they are every year.

they haven't performed up to standards come playoff time.

Tony_Starks
12-09-2014, 09:19 PM
stop causing a commotion in here lol

all Chicago is going to do is run itself to the ground by season's end. thats the motto of the Bulls, play till you can't. Thibs is gonna run his team into the ground as usual.

Lol, nah man I'm dead serious. If the Cavs made it to the ECF I would be in a state of shock. Forget the Bulls, I really don't think they can get past the Wizards.

They'll eat up the Raptors, Bucks, Nets of the world though. Maybe even sweep them.....

FriedTofuz
12-09-2014, 09:27 PM
This thread is hilarious. best in the east and they're not even the 1st seed?
Way too early. What happens if the cavs lose to the raptors tonight who do not have demar derozan? what's going to be said about the cavs then, huh? No excuses.

koreancabbage
12-09-2014, 09:34 PM
This thread is hilarious. best in the east and they're not even the 1st seed?
Way too early. What happens if the cavs lose to the raptors tonight who do not have demar derozan? what's going to be said about the cavs then, huh? No excuses.

i think we're all better off if you don't say anything until after the game.

Cal827
12-09-2014, 09:36 PM
This thread is hilarious. best in the east and they're not even the 1st seed?
Way too early. What happens if the cavs lose to the raptors tonight who do not have demar derozan? what's going to be said about the cavs then, huh? No excuses.

:laugh2: Tofuz, we discussed what happens when you say things.

FriedTofuz
12-09-2014, 09:36 PM
i think we're all better off if you don't say anything until after the game.

I didnt say the cavs were going to lose Im just reinforcing why this thread was pre-mature.

FriedTofuz
12-09-2014, 09:36 PM
:laugh2: Tofuz, we discussed this.

I hope I didnt jinx it LOL.

Shammyguy3
12-09-2014, 09:43 PM
i.e. play starters too much. Chicago, looking back the last 5 years, have never really been a true contender even though everyone says they are every year.

they haven't performed up to standards come playoff time.

which starters has he played too much, and who should have played more minutes instead of them, and then point out how many minutes those player(s) should be playing per game on average.

koreancabbage
12-09-2014, 09:51 PM
which starters has he played too much, and who should have played more minutes instead of them, and then point out how many minutes those player(s) should be playing per game on average.

you can just google "Thibs running bulls into ground" and there are a ton of articles on that topic lol

Stunner
12-09-2014, 09:59 PM
you can just google "Thibs running bulls into ground" and there are a ton of articles on that topic lol

Because google articles are gospel . If you ever watched the bulls you would know this current team is the first bulls team with quality depth since the 2011 Bulls . Bulls have been starting bench players and have had even worse backups .

Shammyguy3
12-09-2014, 10:07 PM
you can just google "Thibs running bulls into ground" and there are a ton of articles on that topic lol

I've read all of the garbage articles written by journalists both in Chicago and outside of Chicago. I'm asking for you, yourself, to give reasoning for your opinion on this matter. Dig into it, and you might learn that your stance on this is not as accurate as all of those witty, smug articles lead you to believe

koreancabbage
12-09-2014, 10:16 PM
gg Cavs.

Miltstar
12-09-2014, 10:27 PM
Some brutal reffin down the stretch there... we're still 1-0 against em with DD

koreancabbage
12-09-2014, 10:38 PM
Because google articles are gospel . If you ever watched the bulls you would know this current team is the first bulls team with quality depth since the 2011 Bulls . Bulls have been starting bench players and have had even worse backups .

this year, but last couple of years no.

koreancabbage
12-09-2014, 10:39 PM
I've read all of the garbage articles written by journalists both in Chicago and outside of Chicago. I'm asking for you, yourself, to give reasoning for your opinion on this matter. Dig into it, and you might learn that your stance on this is not as accurate as all of those witty, smug articles lead you to believe

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1735910-does-tom-thibodeau-lean-on-chicago-bulls-starters-too-heavily

i don't have time to do some hard core research atm nor do i care. its a lost cause on my argument cuz i just don't care enough

Shammyguy3
12-09-2014, 11:05 PM
I've read that article. It actually helps MY case, not your thoughts on Thibs playing guys too much. Did you read it yourself? Here's an excerpt "Luol Dengís minutes per game this year, a league-leading 38.71, would seem to suggest he is overplayed. The same goes for last year, when Deng averaged 39.43 minutes. That sounds like a strong case until you dig deeper.

Those are also the two lowest averages for a league-leader in the history of the NBA. His average this year qualified for 580th all-time. Placed in just the context of this season, it seems to be a lot of minutes, but in a broader, historical perspective, it is not.

Apart from Deng, the Bulls donít have any players in the top 10. Joakim Noah is 17th with 36.8 minutes. Carlos Boozer is 65th with 32.2 minutes. No other Bull has more than 30 minutes per game.

By comparison, the Portland Trail Blazer have three of the nine most-used players in Nicolas Batum, Damian Lillard and LaMarcus Aldridge. All three had played at least 37.7 minutes per game, and two of whom played a mere six seconds fewer than Deng."

People say that if you lead the league in minutes per game that you're overplayed. How in the world does that make any sense? Durant has lead the league in total minutes played 3 of the past 5 seasons. Here's his minutes per game breakdown since his sophomore year: 39.0 39.5 38.9 38.6 38.5 38.5


If you don't have time to do "hard-core" research, fine. But it really doesn't take longer than 1 fully contemplated thought and 3 minutes on bball reference to say "wow, i guess Thibs doesn't ride his players harder than any other coach has ridden their best players before)" because it's ****ing true (pardon my french).

Each teams' best player(s) HAVE to play more minutes than your average starter. Otherwise, you won't play as well as you should, win as many games as you should, or have a set rotation come playoff time (which you should, have.)


I'll do the hard-research for you, and for everyone so you can get this thought out of your head:

Luol Deng at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 39.1mpg 39.4mpg and 38.7mpg (all under Thibs)
LaMarcus Aldridge at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 39.6mpg 36.3mpg 37.7mpg
Monta Ellis at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 40.3mpg 36.6mpg 37.5mpg (41.4mpg at age 24)
Andre Iguodala at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 39.9mpg 38.9mpg 36.9mpg
Gerald Wallace at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 38.3mpg 37.6mpg 41.0mpg
Lebron James at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 39.0mpg 38.8mpg 37.5mpg
Kobe Bryant at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 37.6mpg 40.7mpg and 41.0mpg
Michael Jordan at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 40.2mpg 39.0mpg 37.0mpg
Michael Finley at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 41.0mpg 42.2mpg 42.0mpg
Allen Iverson at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 42.0mpg 43.7mpg 42.5mpg

Someone has to lead the league in minutes per game. Someone has to lead your team in minutes per game. You HAVE to rely on your best players to play those minutes. You must play your players those minutes to be successful. On rare occasions can you not let your best players play over 36mpg and be successful.

And we're talking about players in their PRIMES, not in their 30s. Thibs has shown when he has a bench, he won't play minutes more than they're capable of playing. We've seen this with Joakim Noah, with Derrick Rose now, and yes even with Luol Deng.



Now, here's a couple final points I'd like to make. The article says that Thibs plays guys extreme minutes, how is that any different than almost every other coach in the history of the game? Just look at the Finley's and Iverson's and Ellis' of the world, that's occurred forever.

Certain games with injuries, foul trouble, overtime games demand certain players play extreme minutes. Yet, with all of that Deng's league-leading MPG mark that one time is STILL historically low.

Again, saying Thibs overriding players is such a misguided thought process fueled by journalists and bloggers because it's easy to write the same thing over and over again.

Vee-Rex
12-09-2014, 11:17 PM
What does a second grader have to do with anything? Are you an expert on them?

Are you one of those creepy dudes that drive really slow at an elementary school parking lot, with your tongue hanging out the window? I know you like Cleveland, but that's kinda ****ed up dude.

It's just an expression, dude... I really wish you'd go back to your Heat forums or whichever team you rooted for before LBJ came back to Cleveland.

Vee-Rex
12-09-2014, 11:19 PM
Also, gg tonight. Toronto's just gonna be one of those teams that give us a problem no matter how good our chemistry get. Thursday's game in OKC should be a fun one to watch.

Cal827
12-09-2014, 11:20 PM
Also, gg tonight. Toronto's just gonna be one of those teams that give us a problem no matter how good our chemistry get. Thursday's game in OKC should be a fun one to watch.

If these teams meet in the playoffs, it's gonna be a good series.

In the meanwhile GG and enjoy the win that continues your streak :cheers:

koreancabbage
12-10-2014, 12:06 AM
I've read that article. It actually helps MY case, not your thoughts on Thibs playing guys too much. Did you read it yourself? Here's an excerpt "Luol Dengís minutes per game this year, a league-leading 38.71, would seem to suggest he is overplayed. The same goes for last year, when Deng averaged 39.43 minutes. That sounds like a strong case until you dig deeper.

Those are also the two lowest averages for a league-leader in the history of the NBA. His average this year qualified for 580th all-time. Placed in just the context of this season, it seems to be a lot of minutes, but in a broader, historical perspective, it is not.

Apart from Deng, the Bulls donít have any players in the top 10. Joakim Noah is 17th with 36.8 minutes. Carlos Boozer is 65th with 32.2 minutes. No other Bull has more than 30 minutes per game.

By comparison, the Portland Trail Blazer have three of the nine most-used players in Nicolas Batum, Damian Lillard and LaMarcus Aldridge. All three had played at least 37.7 minutes per game, and two of whom played a mere six seconds fewer than Deng."

People say that if you lead the league in minutes per game that you're overplayed. How in the world does that make any sense? Durant has lead the league in total minutes played 3 of the past 5 seasons. Here's his minutes per game breakdown since his sophomore year: 39.0 39.5 38.9 38.6 38.5 38.5


If you don't have time to do "hard-core" research, fine. But it really doesn't take longer than 1 fully contemplated thought and 3 minutes on bball reference to say "wow, i guess Thibs doesn't ride his players harder than any other coach has ridden their best players before)" because it's ****ing true (pardon my french).

Each teams' best player(s) HAVE to play more minutes than your average starter. Otherwise, you won't play as well as you should, win as many games as you should, or have a set rotation come playoff time (which you should, have.)


I'll do the hard-research for you, and for everyone so you can get this thought out of your head:

Luol Deng at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 39.1mpg 39.4mpg and 38.7mpg (all under Thibs)
LaMarcus Aldridge at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 39.6mpg 36.3mpg 37.7mpg
Monta Ellis at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 40.3mpg 36.6mpg 37.5mpg (41.4mpg at age 24)
Andre Iguodala at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 39.9mpg 38.9mpg 36.9mpg
Gerald Wallace at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 38.3mpg 37.6mpg 41.0mpg
Lebron James at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 39.0mpg 38.8mpg 37.5mpg
Kobe Bryant at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 37.6mpg 40.7mpg and 41.0mpg
Michael Jordan at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 40.2mpg 39.0mpg 37.0mpg
Michael Finley at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 41.0mpg 42.2mpg 42.0mpg
Allen Iverson at ages 25, 26, 27 respectively averaged 42.0mpg 43.7mpg 42.5mpg

Someone has to lead the league in minutes per game. Someone has to lead your team in minutes per game. You HAVE to rely on your best players to play those minutes. You must play your players those minutes to be successful. On rare occasions can you not let your best players play over 36mpg and be successful.

And we're talking about players in their PRIMES, not in their 30s. Thibs has shown when he has a bench, he won't play minutes more than they're capable of playing. We've seen this with Joakim Noah, with Derrick Rose now, and yes even with Luol Deng.



Now, here's a couple final points I'd like to make. The article says that Thibs plays guys extreme minutes, how is that any different than almost every other coach in the history of the game? Just look at the Finley's and Iverson's and Ellis' of the world, that's occurred forever.

Certain games with injuries, foul trouble, overtime games demand certain players play extreme minutes. Yet, with all of that Deng's league-leading MPG mark that one time is STILL historically low.

Again, saying Thibs overriding players is such a misguided thought process fueled by journalists and bloggers because it's easy to write the same thing over and over again.

see. there we go. all i had to do was point out something that Bulls fans don't agree and they'll do the research.

honestly though, i was just trolling. i didn't really care if it was true or not.

EDIT: nice research though. not to be too douchy now. =P

michael jordan
12-10-2014, 09:25 PM
we are going to sweep the spurs in the finals
sending manu and ducacn in to early retiremnt:cheers:

FlashBolt
12-11-2014, 01:05 AM
I'm going to go on a limb and say Cleveland are probably the second best team right now. Here's why:

1) Their Big Three seem to be playing more comfortably.
2) Their defense has picked up.
3) Wizards are too young. They are my favorites for East thus far. Beal/Wall are amazing.
4) Toronto are too young.
5) Rose being in-and-out creates a huge problem for Bulls. Jimmy Butler is a stud and having Rose come in disturbing his pace is certainly not a good thing.
6) East is relatively weak.
7) Hawks are one of those teams that always plays well/competitively, but never a truly elite team. I don't think they are going to be a threat, tbh.

FriedTofuz
12-11-2014, 06:57 AM
I'm going to go on a limb and say Cleveland are probably the second best team right now. Here's why:

1) Their Big Three seem to be playing more comfortably.
2) Their defense has picked up.
3) Wizards are too young. They are my favorites for East thus far. Beal/Wall are amazing.
4) Toronto are too young.
5) Rose being in-and-out creates a huge problem for Bulls. Jimmy Butler is a stud and having Rose come in disturbing his pace is certainly not a good thing.
6) East is relatively weak.
7) Hawks are one of those teams that always plays well/competitively, but never a truly elite team. I don't think they are going to be a threat, tbh.

then who's number 1? the knicks?

FriedTofuz
12-28-2014, 09:11 PM
Are the cavs really that good? theyre still not the 1st seed and just lost to thr pistons. OP was prematurely excited

FraziersKnicks
12-28-2014, 09:25 PM
Are the cavs really that good? theyre still not the 1st seed and just lost to thr pistons. OP was prematurely excited

And they're missing their 2nd and 4th best players? I think you're getting prematurely excited thinking they're not good because they just lost to the Pistons. I suppose you didn't watch the game where the Pistons couldn't miss a shot and set a franchise record for 3 pointers made...

bucketss
12-28-2014, 09:32 PM
seems like cleveland is getting blown out at home a lot.

Bostonjorge
12-28-2014, 09:41 PM
Hopefully its clevland vs heat in the first rd. Lebron can't play under that type of pressure.

Phenomenonsense
12-28-2014, 10:55 PM
And they're missing their 2nd and 4th best players? I think you're getting prematurely excited thinking they're not good because they just lost to the Pistons. I suppose you didn't watch the game where the Pistons couldn't miss a shot and set a franchise record for 3 pointers made...

It was a game where people like Jerebko and Singler shut Lebron down. Lebron going into "chill" mode is sad to see. He's too damn good to get D'd up by Butler and Singler, and especially Jerebko.

IndiansFan337
12-28-2014, 11:06 PM
The Cavs sure did look bad today vs the Pistons. They are still really struggling defensively and are very dependent on the 3 offensively.

effen5
12-28-2014, 11:38 PM
Bulls are the best in the east....and they are just getting warmed up

DemarDerozan
12-28-2014, 11:42 PM
LOLOLOLOL Nice bump.

Nope... Not even the best in their division. These guys made the Pistons look like the Wallace Brothers era. Lebron is done... Done. He doesn't have what it takes to lead a team. Also the Shaq v Bron argument is over. Not only was Shaq traded but he flourished on the MIA squad at a similar point in his career and led a team with less talent to a championship.

This move may very well put LBJ out of the top ten GOAT next to Moses Malone where he belongs,

Mr. Baller
12-28-2014, 11:50 PM
LOLOLOLOL Nice bump.

Nope... Not even the best in their division. These guys made the Pistons look like the Wallace Brothers era. Lebron is done... Done. He doesn't have what it takes to lead a team. Also the Shaq v Bron argument is over. Not only was Shaq traded but he flourished on the MIA squad at a similar point in his career and led a team with less talent to a championship.

This move may very well put LBJ out of the top ten GOAT next to Moses Malone where he belongs,

stop it

Cal827
12-29-2014, 12:17 AM
:laugh2::laugh2: Wow

koreancabbage
12-29-2014, 12:18 AM
as we said before: premature

vee rex not showing his face around here anymore.

Crackadalic
12-29-2014, 12:36 AM
I don't think they can get the top 2 seed like I thought with V out unless they make a trade

DemarDerozan
12-29-2014, 12:44 AM
stop it

What? Do you think any other all time great would struggle this horribly with a gift-wrapped contender?

LBJ is a joke.

Mr. Baller
12-29-2014, 12:45 AM
What? Do you think any other all time great would struggle this horribly with a gift-wrapped contender?

LBJ is a joke.

Yeah a team with no rim protection, no bench, no defense, is a gift wrapped contender. Kevin Love and Kyrie have proven nothing in this league

JustinTime
12-29-2014, 12:52 AM
Lebron 5-19 with 7 TO's. This guy is no longer the best in the world even rookie Wiggins looked better than him the other day.

ChI_ShIzzLe
12-29-2014, 12:54 AM
This is why he went to Miami. He knew he couldn't win **** without proven superstar teammates.

Miltstar
12-29-2014, 12:56 AM
Yeah a team with no rim protection, no bench, no defense, is a gift wrapped contender. Kevin Love and Kyrie have proven nothing in this league

They've proved they can score, that's about it. Cleveland is soft as butter... Varajeo was the one guy that held the defense together, I think they're gonna be in big trouble without him. TT and Love are great rebounders, but by no means great defenders

Deception
12-29-2014, 01:01 AM
I watched the game, the Cavs looked zoned out.. Maybe they thought it was going to be an easy game because it's the Pistons but we're really gelling as a team and Jennings has been killing it

bucketss
12-29-2014, 01:04 AM
maybe illusionist was right and lebron really is declining :laugh:

smiddy012
12-29-2014, 01:20 AM
The Cavs suck. Let's so how far they get without Wade to carry Lebron's lethargic ***.

bucketss
12-29-2014, 01:23 AM
The Cavs suck. Let's so how far they get without Wade to carry Lebron's lethargic ***.

if we're being honest wade hasn't carried anything since 2011

Confusious
12-29-2014, 01:24 AM
The Cavs suck. Let's so how far they get without Wade to carry Lebron's lethargic ***.
Funniest thing yet. Keep 'em comin.

Cal827
12-29-2014, 01:29 AM
Funniest thing yet. Keep 'em comin.

:laugh: I'm guessing you didn't see the comment about Lebron's HOF status earlier in this thread?

Cal827
12-29-2014, 01:30 AM
Yeah a team with no rim protection, no bench, no defense, is a gift wrapped contender. Kevin Love and Kyrie have proven nothing in this league

THANK YOU! When I say this, I get yelled at lol

Confusious
12-29-2014, 01:33 AM
:laugh: I'm guessing you didn't see the comment about Lebron's HOF status earlier in this thread?
So, you're saying LeBron isn't a Hall of Famer when he retires? That's pretty bold. And idiotic.

Cal827
12-29-2014, 01:38 AM
So, you're saying LeBron isn't a Hall of Famer when he retires? That's pretty bold. And idiotic.

LOL, I'm not sure how Cal827 can be confused with DemarDerozan but OK! :D

Confusious
12-29-2014, 01:46 AM
LOL, I'm not sure how Cal827 can be confused with DemarDerozan but OK! :D
Two dumb Toronto Raptor fans. Often like to regard ones self in the third person. I don't see much difference.

bucketss
12-29-2014, 01:50 AM
Two dumb Toronto Raptor fans. Often like to regard ones self in the third person. I don't see much difference.

i know you're frustrated about tonights game but try not show it/

DemarDerozan
12-29-2014, 02:21 AM
Two dumb Toronto Raptor fans. Often like to regard ones self in the third person. I don't see much difference.

Wow. I think you just hit rock bottom brah. And it's only a third the way through the season.

Also I was one of the first to point out that Love and Irving hadn't won or proven anything... But all the LeBronophiles and bandwagon fans retorted something fierce.

Now that I share your sentiment that the Cavs were supposed to be ECF favorite contenders I'm wrong again?

Someone tell me how the **** this works?

DemarDerozan
12-29-2014, 02:28 AM
Yeah a team with no rim protection, no bench, no defense, is a gift wrapped contender. Kevin Love and Kyrie have proven nothing in this league

Again... I pointed this **** out months ago. But dudes were so convinced by Love and Kyrie's stats/potential/etc.

Now that the Cavs suck they suddenly have all of these flaws that are preventing poor LBJ from winning. The hypocrisy here is pretty sad really. Seriously some of yall should really get off of Lebrons nuts and just realize that... Maybe he isn't as good as you thought?

Cal827
12-29-2014, 02:42 AM
Two dumb Toronto Raptor fans. Often like to regard ones self in the third person. I don't see much difference.

:laugh:

Well I'm sorry I offended you Dnewguy

FriedTofuz
12-29-2014, 03:11 AM
THANK YOU! When I say this, I get yelled at lol

He was being sarcastic, he genuinely thinks they have proven themselves in this league. Kyrie couldnt lead his team to 30% wins and love is horrible defensively. Hawks, bulls and wizards are all better than the cavs at this point

LA_Raiders
12-29-2014, 03:43 AM
They are the top 4-5 IMO, and the Easy has never been easier.

Iron24th
12-29-2014, 03:51 AM
Again... I pointed this **** out months ago. But dudes were so convinced by Love and Kyrie's stats/potential/etc.

Now that the Cavs suck they suddenly have all of these flaws that are preventing poor LBJ from winning. The hypocrisy here is pretty sad really. Seriously some of yall should really get off of Lebrons nuts and just realize that... Maybe he isn't as good as you thought?

How dare you?! To call out the king on PSD?! You'll get burn for that!

SteBO
12-29-2014, 07:54 AM
LeBron just needs to play better....Kyrie and Love aren't good enough players to just hand over the scoring load and hope they carry you to wins consistently with all the flaws your team has. Sooner or later, he'll realize that. Even so, they're in trouble come playoff time.

raiderfaninTX
12-29-2014, 08:59 AM
To be honest I'd trade kyrie for a strong defensive center and a PG who can pass the ball

Then funnel the scoring load to lebron and love

xxcubs22xx
12-29-2014, 09:12 AM
Without Varejao they become an average team in a below average conference with even less rim protection and rebounding. Toronto, Washington, Chicago and Atlanta could make easy work of them come Playoff time. I can't help but imagine what they would be like with Wiggins and Bennett instead of this squad...

LakersIn5
12-29-2014, 09:46 AM
I hate the cavs but i still see them making the finals.

jp611
12-29-2014, 09:47 AM
LMFAO. No.

jp611
12-29-2014, 09:48 AM
i know you're frustrated about tonights game but try not show it/

How can he be that mad? He just became a Cavs fan this offseason. He could just be a Bulls fan again.

Vee-Rex
12-29-2014, 11:13 AM
Bandwagoners get mad faaast.

With no Varejao and Irving, we're definitely not the best in the East. With them, we're still not. Varejao's injury is no surprise and I'm just glad Kyrie will be back soon.

It's gonna take a lot more work and some trades to beef up the interior/exterior defense to see the Cavs be the best in the East.

However, don't be mistaken. The East isn't a good conference. The Raptors/Bulls/Wizards would all lose in a series from the West's top 8 (if OKC is healthy they will be in the playoffs).

So, haters, let's try not to make it seem like some monumental task for the Cavs to improve enough to be the best in the East by the time the season is over. As good as the Heat were, even they lost games and are like a few shots away from having no championships altogether (Boston ECF, Spurs Finals). So let's also remember that it will never be a cakewalk for any team.

M.I.A.
12-29-2014, 11:36 AM
I've got 29 points that says the Cavs are not even close to being the best team in the East. Please.

ChI_ShIzzLe
12-29-2014, 12:18 PM
Bandwagoners get mad faaast.

With no Varejao and Irving, we're definitely not the best in the East. With them, we're still not. Varejao's injury is no surprise and I'm just glad Kyrie will be back soon.

It's gonna take a lot more work and some trades to beef up the interior/exterior defense to see the Cavs be the best in the East.

However, don't be mistaken. The East isn't a good conference. The Raptors/Bulls/Wizards would all lose in a series from the West's top 8 (if OKC is healthy they will be in the playoffs).

So, haters, let's try not to make it seem like some monumental task for the Cavs to improve enough to be the best in the East by the time the season is over. As good as the Heat were, even they lost games and are like a few shots away from having no championships altogether (Boston ECF, Spurs Finals). So let's also remember that it will never be a cakewalk for any team.

I'm really getting tired of this stupid assumption. A healthy Bulls team can handle any team in the league in a 7-game series.

RAPS424
12-29-2014, 12:41 PM
Bandwagoners get mad faaast.

With no Varejao and Irving, we're definitely not the best in the East. With them, we're still not. Varejao's injury is no surprise and I'm just glad Kyrie will be back soon.

It's gonna take a lot more work and some trades to beef up the interior/exterior defense to see the Cavs be the


best in the East.

However, don't be mistaken. The East isn't a good conference. The Raptors/Bulls/Wizards would all lose in a series from the West's top 8 (if OKC is healthy they will be in the playoffs).

So, haters, let's try not to make it seem like some monumental task for the Cavs to improve enough to be the best in the East by the time the season is over. As good as the Heat were, even they lost games and are like a few shots away from having no championships altogether (Boston ECF, Spurs Finals). So let's also remember that it will never be a cakewalk for any team.

Lol , based on what ? Your made up assumption ? Raps are 24-7 played half the season so far WITHOUT our leading scorer and all star (Dero) (11-4 without him) and have a 9-2 record against the west ! sorry your super friends team isn't working out the way u wanted .. All teams sustain injuries .. The good teams find ways to keep winning

Miltstar
12-29-2014, 12:52 PM
I'm really getting tired of this stupid assumption. A healthy Bulls team can handle any team in the league in a 7-game series.

He's just mad that Cleveland is struggling hard and needs to find a way to make himself feel better.

The Bulls are probably the best team in the league when at full strength. They are long and tough, they can score inside and out and they have a guy (D-Rose) who can absolutely catch fire and win you games on his own.

The West is definately deeper, but the East has some teams that are legitimate title contenders

BALLER R
12-29-2014, 01:46 PM
Lol , based on what ? Your made up assumption ? Raps are 24-7 played half the season so far WITHOUT our leading scorer and all star (Dero) (11-4 without him) and have a 9-2 record against the west ! sorry your super friends team isn't working out the way u wanted .. All teams sustain injuries .. The good teams find ways to keep winning

As much as I love the raptors. I think majority of the west top 8 teams would beat them in a series. It's not stupid to think that. Those are teams that consistently make the playoffs or make deep playoff run. You think first round series lost year and a number 1 record in the east in December means anything come playoff time. We haven't earned **** yet.

Jamiecballer
12-29-2014, 01:59 PM
I'm really getting tired of this stupid assumption. A healthy Bulls team can handle any team in the league in a 7-game series.

and the Raptors are 66-29 dating back to the Rudy Gay trade, including 24-11 against the west. i don't know if i'm being a hypocrite but i'm not sold on the Wizards just yet. the Raptors and Bulls are the only 2 teams i think that are real challengers in the East and they would both most certainly be good in the west as well. let them underrate us though.

RAPS424
12-29-2014, 02:06 PM
As much as I love the raptors. I think majority of the west top 8 teams would beat them in a series. It's not stupid to think that. Those are teams that consistently make the playoffs or make deep playoff run. You think first round series lost year and a number 1 record in the east in December means anything come playoff time. We haven't earned **** yet.

Last I checked , Memphis /Portland/Houston/clippers/OKC/warriors/ haven't won ANYTHING !! All good reg season teams , that have gotten bounced in the playoffs by the spurs ! ( Dallas a few years ago , but a different team now )

LanceUpperCut
12-29-2014, 02:12 PM
As much as I love the raptors. I think majority of the west top 8 teams would beat them in a series. It's not stupid to think that. Those are teams that consistently make the playoffs or make deep playoff run. You think first round series lost year and a number 1 record in the east in December means anything come playoff time. We haven't earned **** yet.

That's the thing I love about this Raptors team, every time their not suppose to do something they just do it. I'd say right now any of the top 8 teams in the West along with the Bulls, Raps, Wiz and even Atl are all fairly even matched and their really isn't any one team that is head and shoulders above the rest.

RLundi
12-29-2014, 02:19 PM
OP is a soothsayer.

SenileStern
12-29-2014, 02:27 PM
It's surprising the Cavs are still top favourite to win it all (odds +350), given that no analyst or forum user expects them to win, or even come out of the East.

Miltstar
12-29-2014, 02:31 PM
As much as I love the raptors. I think majority of the west top 8 teams would beat them in a series. It's not stupid to think that. Those are teams that consistently make the playoffs or make deep playoff run. You think first round series lost year and a number 1 record in the east in December means anything come playoff time. We haven't earned **** yet.

Please tell me these teams in the west that consistantly make deep playoff runs... There are no Jordan's Bulls/Bird's Celtics/Shaq's Lakers type teams this year. It's wide open, the Spurs are still around but they are far from a guarentee. The league is wide open this year and somebody new is going to step up and take the title. There are less contenders in the East but I wouldn't rule any of the top teams out!

What have Golden State, Portland, Memphis or Houston proven? Not a dammm thing... The Bulls and Mavs are the most proven teams aside from San Antonio and one of those teams is from the East!

2-ONE-5
12-29-2014, 02:58 PM
wait what have the Bulls proven lately?

Andrew32
12-29-2014, 03:01 PM
Things are not looking good for the Cavs.

Bron is looking like he is in decline.
Kyrie is injured.
With Varejo gone they have no rim protection or post defense.
Kevin Love is looking limited now that he isn't the 1st, 2nd and 3rd option for a team though I have hopes he will adjust to his new role and improve. He is also a sieve on defense.

Unless they find a way to get a quality defensive C I think they will get run over in the playoffs by one team or another.

Sadds The Gr8
12-29-2014, 03:39 PM
Lol OP is a clown

Bartlee23
12-29-2014, 03:59 PM
wait what have the Bulls proven lately?


They've won multiple championships in the modern era.

They are consistently in the playoffs every year even with their top players injured.

They are on pace for another strong year with one of the strongest and deepest teams with a former defensive player of the year, MVP and an upcoming most improved player.

Does Philadelphia even have a team anymore?

2-ONE-5
12-29-2014, 04:16 PM
lol what do the Sixers have to do with this, are you still mad we beat you in the playoffs or something?

anyway the Bulls winning titles in the Jordan era has no relevance in this discussion or the point i was trying to make. The Bulls in the Rose era are certainly not proven, Memphis has proved much more in the same time in the tougher conference. In no way did I say the Bulls cant contend either so maybe read the posts ebfore you get all defesnive and sensetive.

LAKERS4LIFE!!
12-29-2014, 04:35 PM
They've won multiple championships in the modern era.

They are consistently in the playoffs every year even with their top players injured.

They are on pace for another strong year with one of the strongest and deepest teams with a former defensive player of the year, MVP and an upcoming most improved player.

Does Philadelphia even have a team anymore?

I agree that the Bulls & Raptors are the best team in the East but these points that the Bulls are "proven" are bad. Championships from about 20 years ago don't count as being "proven lately".

I do hope that either the Bulls or Raptors come out of the East though because I'm a huge Pau Gasol fan and Lowry is making me a fan of the Raptors.

Bartlee23
12-29-2014, 04:37 PM
lol what do the Sixers have to do with this, are you still mad we beat you in the playoffs or something?

anyway the Bulls winning titles in the Jordan era has no relevance in this discussion or the point i was trying to make. The Bulls in the Rose era are certainly not proven, Memphis has proved much more in the same time in the tougher conference. In no way did I say the Bulls cant contend either so maybe read the posts ebfore you get all defesnive and sensetive.

That was 2011. I haven't seen anything from there but losing.

Who said anything about Memphis? I stated clearly what Chicago has done lately which was your question and all you could do was come back with a mush-mouthed, misspelled answer of "maybe I should read the post " which I clearly did and answered.

Chicago got to the Eastern conference finals in the " Rose era " which is far from over which would be a great feat for most teams so I don't know where you're going with this?

Bartlee23
12-29-2014, 04:44 PM
I agree that the Bulls & Raptors are the best team in the East but these points that the Bulls are "proven" are bad. Championships from about 20 years ago don't count as being "proven lately".

I do hope that either the Bulls or Raptors come out of the East though because I'm a huge Pau Gasol fan and Lowry is making me a fan of the Raptors.

All I stated was Chicago has won " something " in the modern era regardless of when the exact year was. ( 16 years not 20. ) If you go back to Chicago's last championship there are only like 6 teams that have one, that's a pretty exclusive club.

The other 2 points in my opinion which I'm entitled to were legit.

2-ONE-5
12-29-2014, 04:53 PM
That was 2011. I haven't seen anything from there but losing.

Who said anything about Memphis? I stated clearly what Chicago has done lately which was your question and all you could do was come back with a mush-mouthed, misspelled answer of "maybe I should read the post " which I clearly did and answered.

Chicago got to the Eastern conference finals in the " Rose era " which is far from over which would be a great feat for most teams so I don't know where you're going with this?

dude my response about the Bulls was in resposne to someone naming unaccomplished teams in the West. again go back ONE page and read.

Bartlee23
12-29-2014, 05:02 PM
dude my response about the Bulls was in resposne to someone naming unaccomplished teams in the West. again go back ONE page and read.

I read Miltstar's post about " Golden State, Portland, Memphis or Houston " You asked what Chicago has done lately and I told you. I don't see where the miscommunication is.

Houston like Chicago has won in the last 20 years if we're talking championships but the others have not. I guess we can just agree to disagree.

2-ONE-5
12-29-2014, 05:17 PM
winning titles 20 years ago is not relevant to this season. Bulls are certainly a contender no matter what conf they play in but it has nothing to do with Jordan winning rings.

smiddy012
12-29-2014, 05:32 PM
It seems many people here are forgetting about the fact that the Bulls have 2 legit superstars now... And I'm not even talking about Gasol or Noah.

smiddy012
12-29-2014, 05:32 PM
winning titles 20 years ago is not relevant to this season. Bulls are certainly a contender no matter what conf they play in but it has nothing to do with Jordan winning rings.

True.

Kyben36
12-29-2014, 05:52 PM
It seems many people here are forgetting about the fact that the Bulls have 2 legit superstars now... And I'm not even talking about Gasol or Noah.

One think that most fans should look at is how the bulls did this, without selling their souls, but actually gaining, we got Dougy via Charlote, we got a Kings pick coming soon, we are in a good position now and in the future.

Crackadalic
12-29-2014, 06:05 PM
I think Love is opting out guys. His defense is so bad its not even funny

He might pull a Dwight

tredigs
12-29-2014, 06:16 PM
It seems many people here are forgetting about the fact that the Bulls have 2 legit superstars now... And I'm not even talking about Gasol or Noah.

Rose a superstar? He still has more to prove to show he's a top 10 PG again, let alone overall. Unless we're just talking about branding and name recognition. In that case sure.

Bulls are definitely a stronger team than Cleveland, though. Their swiss cheese D won't carry them out of the East.

SPURSFAN1
12-29-2014, 06:25 PM
I said love wasn't as good as perceived. I guess people are just starting to realize.
I called waiters trash and I called kyrie a top 8-12 pg.
Luckily they are in the east and they don't play top competition most of the time.
They'll get beat by chicago in the semis.

bucketss
12-29-2014, 06:33 PM
I said love wasn't as good as perceived. I guess people are just starting to realize.
I called waiters trash and I called kyrie a top 8-12 pg.
Luckily they are in the east and they don't play top competition most of the time.
They'll get beat by chicago in the semis.

acutally you said that leonard was better than him.

SPURSFAN1
12-29-2014, 06:38 PM
acutally you said that leonard was better than him.

I don't know if I did, but you could make a case. One has played in 2 FINALS and 3 WCFs in his first 3 years.
1 FMVP. Great 2 way player that can play heavy minutes in the playoffs. Statistically a top 4-8 player in the playoffs. And the other hasn't seen a playoff game in his career and no one knows how he'll react. :confused:

Bartlee23
12-29-2014, 06:47 PM
winning titles 20 years ago is not relevant to this season. Bulls are certainly a contender no matter what conf they play in but it has nothing to do with Jordan winning rings.

Ok you win. Let's throw out the 6 championships won.

Your question was " What has Chicago done lately " compared to another posters comparison to Houston, Portland, Golden state and Memphis and I responded.

Chicago has been to the Eastern conference finals in the " Rose era "

Has made multiple trips to the playoffs despite the loss of major players due to injury.

Developed the deepest team in the NBA filled with a former MVP, a former defensive player of the year and a player due to win the most improved player of the year.

All I got from you is attacking me for not reading what was wrote which I clearly did and clearly responded. I understand you think Chicago is a contender but I proved they have done " something " lately. They have not missed the playoffs or sat at the bottom of a division.

Jamiecballer
12-29-2014, 06:47 PM
It seems many people here are forgetting about the fact that the Bulls have 2 legit superstars now... And I'm not even talking about Gasol or Noah.

i see you are using the words superstar rather loosely. cool, the Raptors have two as well then in Lowry and Derozan.

Draco
12-29-2014, 06:59 PM
i see you are using the words superstar rather loosely. cool, the Raptors have two as well then in Lowry and Derozan.

That's one of them bikram yoga stretches. You stretched the hell outta that one.

ChI_ShIzzLe
12-29-2014, 07:13 PM
Jimmy Butler is a better player right now than Derozan and is closer to superstar status if you were measuring it. But I agree Lowry is going HAM right now.

SteBO
12-29-2014, 07:16 PM
wait what have the Bulls proven lately?
I see your point, but at least their core guys have been battle tested and went to an ECF this decade....

LAKERS4LIFE!!
12-29-2014, 07:44 PM
Jimmy Butler is a better player right now than Derozan and is closer to superstar status if you were measuring it. But I agree Lowry is going HAM right now.


As of right now, Lowry>Rose and Derozan<Jimmy. Jimmy Butler is the real deal in my opinion.

All I know is I can't wait until the playoffs. This is the most excited I've been for the playoffs in a year that the Lakers won't be in it. It's awesome seeing all these fans legitimately believing their team can win the championship. On any given night the Warriors, Spurs, Grizzlies, Rockets, Mavericks, Thunder(when healthy), Clippers, Trailblazers, Raptors, and Bulls can all beat each other on any given night. Then there are still the teams like Atlanta, Suns(if they make the playoffs), and Wizards who can sneak up a win on these teams as well. This isn't even including the Cavs too who can become much better later into the season. This year is very WIDE OPEN in who can win it all.

Draco
12-29-2014, 08:09 PM
Why does it matter who's playing the better individual bball right now? The Raptor's aren't coming out the east and the most reasonable of their fan base knows that. With every win over some random sub-500 team the rest of the fan base want to push Lowry further up the PG totem poll. Fine. He's 29 and it's too bad the team isn't better because this is probably going to be his career year. Enjoy it while it lasts. Edit: 28 y/o.. we'll see.

bucketss
12-29-2014, 08:11 PM
Why does it matter who's playing the better individual bball right now? The Raptor's aren't coming out the east and the most reasonable of their fan base knows that. With every win over some random sub-500 team the rest of the fan base want to push Lowry further up the PG totem poll. Fine. He's 29 and it's too bad the team isn't better because this is probably going to be his career year. Enjoy it while it lasts.

yeah yeah, we just beat the clips i guess they're a sub 500 team.

Kaner
12-29-2014, 08:23 PM
They are the top 4-5 IMO, and the Easy has never been easier.

You're not paying attention if you think this is the weakest the east has ever been or even a particularly weak east at this point. 4 teams in the east are on pace for 57+ wins and the Cavs are on pace for 49, just because the West is historically great doesn't mean the east isn't really improved from just a year ago.

Shammyguy3
12-29-2014, 08:25 PM
You're not paying attention if you think this is the weakest the east has ever been or even a particularly weak east at this point. 4 teams in the east are on pace for 57+ wins and the Cavs are on pace for 49, just because the West is historically great doesn't mean the east isn't really improved from just a year ago.

Great points. Also, factor in that the top-4 teams in the East right now combined don't even have a top-10 player on their roster (Chicago, Toronto, Washington, Atlanta) makes it easy to overlook for the star power out west (CP3/Blake, Curry, Durant/Westy, etc etc).

Crackadalic
12-29-2014, 08:41 PM
yeah yeah, we just beat the clips i guess they're a sub 500 team.

Clips have been playing some inconsistent basketball lately. Good win though but they been slacking last few weeks

LanceUpperCut
12-29-2014, 08:41 PM
Why does it matter who's playing the better individual bball right now? The Raptor's aren't coming out the east and the most reasonable of their fan base knows that. With every win over some random sub-500 team the rest of the fan base want to push Lowry further up the PG totem poll. Fine. He's 29 and it's too bad the team isn't better because this is probably going to be his career year. Enjoy it while it lasts. Edit: 28 y/o.. we'll see.

Wasn't last year suppose to be his career year? As a Raps fan I'm not going to take the douche bag route and bad mouth Chicago cause they are very good and probably the favorites to come out of the East but hopefully all the minutes that TT is throwing at Butler doesn't catch up to him and all the injury prone guys stay healthy cause I know last year once the playoffs came the Wiz just ran a muck all over them.

LanceUpperCut
12-29-2014, 08:49 PM
Clips have been playing some inconsistent basketball lately. Good win though but they been slacking last few weeks

They also just beat Golden state the game before. People can keep playing the only beating ****** teams card all they want. They beat the Wizards and ATLx2 and those are the number 2-3 teams in the East and are 9-2 against the West so far what the hell more do people need. No ones saying their favorites but as of right now any of the top 10-12 teams can upset one another.

Crackadalic
12-29-2014, 08:57 PM
They also just beat Golden state the game before. People can keep playing the only beating ****** teams card all they want. They beat the Wizards and ATLx2 and those are the number 2-3 teams in the East and are 9-2 against the West so far what the hell more do people need. No ones saying their favorites but as of right now any of the top 10-12 teams can upset one another.

Because they haven't won anything thats why. Can't blame people for not taking the Raps seriously. Build a playoff proven team and people can say the raps are contenders. Right now there just playing very good basketball nothing more

Jamiecballer
12-29-2014, 09:21 PM
Jimmy Butler is a better player right now than Derozan and is closer to superstar status if you were measuring it. But I agree Lowry is going HAM right now.
Butler and Lowry are pretty even if both stay where they are. Derozan and Rose are both well short of superstar. Hell depending on your definition both Lowry and Butler are too.

Draco
12-29-2014, 09:34 PM
DeMar is far short of superstar (read: he'll never be one). Rose's shortcoming is a function of time and need.

ChI_ShIzzLe
12-29-2014, 09:42 PM
Butler and Lowry are pretty even if both stay where they are. Derozan and Rose are both well short of superstar. Hell depending on your definition both Lowry and Butler are too.

If Rose stays healthy from here on out, it certainly isn't bold statement to say that he'll above Lowry by the end of the season and pretty damn near his MVP form. However he has so much help offensively now compared to his MVP season, he may not have similar stats not because he isn't there anymore but because JB and Gasol have stepped up to form a Big 3 where Rose isn't required to take so many shots.

Jamiecballer
12-29-2014, 09:48 PM
DeMar is far short of superstar (read: he'll never be one). Rose's shortcoming is a function of time and need.
It's great that you guys both feel that way. I will wait to see if there is any truth to it.

If Rose stays healthy from here on out, it certainly isn't bold statement to say that he'll above Lowry by the end of the season and pretty damn near his MVP form. However he has so much help offensively now compared to his MVP season, he may not have similar stats not because he isn't there anymore but because JB and Gasol have stepped up to form a Big 3 where Rose isn't required to take so many shots.

ChI_ShIzzLe
12-29-2014, 09:56 PM
My post sounded like I was drunk jeez. "A bold statement", "Be above Lowry".

Cal827
12-29-2014, 11:15 PM
I'll keep this short.

Right now in the East, if you look at the Standings: Best team is the Toronto Raptors at 24-7

Best team in the East, just looking at intangibles right now, is the Bulls without a doubt.

That's all :D

dalton749
12-29-2014, 11:30 PM
I think we're going to see a very different derozan when he comes back so it'll be interesting to see where he is in this conversation. Since he's been out torontos offence has rose to #1 in the league and is currently the best in the history of the league (crazy, and won't last)
Should be a lot less iso ball from him, and a lot more off ball which could make him a much more efficient player

Jamiecballer
12-30-2014, 12:22 AM
I think we're going to see a very different derozan when he comes back so it'll be interesting to see where he is in this conversation. Since he's been out torontos offence has rose to #1 in the league and is currently the best in the history of the league (crazy, and won't last)
Should be a lot less iso ball from him, and a lot more off ball which could make him a much more efficient player
You think so huh?

InRoseWeTrust
12-30-2014, 01:02 AM
I'll keep this short.

Right now in the East, if you look at the Standings: Best team is the Toronto Raptors at 24-7

Best team in the East, just looking at intangibles right now, is the Bulls without a doubt.

That's all :D

We've got **** to work out. Not sure that I'm ready to say this.

murphturph
12-30-2014, 01:17 AM
Raptors offense is so hard to guard, beacuse well, there isnt much of an offense, Players are put into their best positions to score the basketball limiting passes thus limiting turnovers, and garnishing more possessions.

murphturph
12-30-2014, 01:20 AM
Bulls (Ohhhh how bad I want to put tha Raptors here)
Raptors
Wizards
Hawks
Cavs

DamnGoat
12-30-2014, 01:23 AM
We've got **** to work out. Not sure that I'm ready to say this.
Agreed.

I think the Bulls upside is probably higher than any team in the East and they've shown flashes of it during this 7 game win streak. But they've also shown that their starters need to get more comfortable playing together, turnovers & rebounding can still be a problem sometimes and they're still not where they need to be defensively.

DaBear
12-30-2014, 01:27 AM
Agreed.

I think the Bulls upside is probably higher than any team in the East and they've shown flashes of it during this 7 game win streak. But they've also shown that their starters need to get more comfortable playing together, turnovers & rebounding can still be a problem sometimes and they're still not where they need to be defensively.

Just a few things I think should happen moving forward.

- Rose needs to take less 3's. Period.
- Mirotic needs more minutes.
- Taj should be traded.

Tony_Starks
12-30-2014, 01:55 AM
Bulls, Wizards, Cavs battle for ECF.........everybody else battles to make noise in the playoffs.

The End

bucketss
12-30-2014, 02:17 AM
Bulls, Wizards, Cavs battle for ECF.........everybody else battles to make noise in the playoffs.

The End

im offended you would leave out raptors, and include the wiz.

efrost6
12-30-2014, 02:24 AM
the Bulls are looking incredible right now. A case in point, the team looked lackadaisical tonight letting the Pacers come back from 21pts down to lose the lead by 3. They still won and have for 9 consecutive games now. The front court is stacked with Noah, Gasol, Taj, and Niko. The backcourt is now one of the best with Rose and Butler. The only area where improvement is needed is a strong bench at the wing positions.

Sadds The Gr8
12-30-2014, 04:21 AM
im offended you would leave out raptors, and include the wiz.
We been slapping the **** outta Washington the past 3 years. I'm not even gonna argue for the raptors anymore. They can keep winning, mainstream nba fans will continue ignoring/disrespecting. As long as they're winning who gives a flying **** what these ppl think?

I don't think we're championship contenders but it is laughable to put Washington above us. W/e tho, I'm done arguing for the raps.

bbcmillionaire
12-30-2014, 05:48 AM
Bulls are the best if we stay healthy.
Cavs have a fighting chance with Lebron but idk they are coming up with a lot of excuses.
Raptors are a bigger threat than the wizards, but not by too much. And those hawks can't be written off just yet

bbcmillionaire
12-30-2014, 05:49 AM
As a bulls fan I'm most worried about the raptors

zn23
12-30-2014, 06:53 AM
On their best days they have beaten both Bulls and Raptors (twice). But it doesn't seem like they will ever click and make a consistent run. They may just settle for a 4 or 5 seed and see where it takes them.

FriedTofuz
12-30-2014, 06:59 AM
People are soooo soooo blind and continue to ignore the facts when they say washington is better than Toronto. David Aldridge even said that toronto is the team that gives washington soooo many problems. Theyve lost/got embarressed by us on multiple occasions. Id love a matchup against them to wake up people from thejr ignorance.

Mr. Baller
12-30-2014, 12:21 PM
Nobody in the east is a championship contender, as sad as it is to say. The best team is the Bulls and Thibs will run them into the ground by June.

LanceUpperCut
12-30-2014, 01:36 PM
Nobody in the east is a championship contender, as sad as it is to say. The best team is the Bulls and Thibs will run them into the ground by June.

If you don't consider the Bulls a contender or anyone else in the East who is?

Mr. Baller
12-30-2014, 01:42 PM
If you don't consider the Bulls a contender or anyone else in the East who is?

The west

SensandRaps
12-30-2014, 02:48 PM
The west

not going to say the east is the better conference because the east is not but the Raptors, Hawks, Wizards, Bulls have winning records vs the west

the west is good but its not at that level where it used to be

Mr. Baller
12-30-2014, 02:50 PM
not going to say the east is the better conference because the east is not but the Raptors, Hawks, Wizards, Bulls have winning records vs the west

the west is good but its not at that level where it used to be

There are 7 teams in the west I would pick in a 7 game series over every team in the east.

jerellh528
12-30-2014, 02:54 PM
If the Bulls stay healthy and relatively fresh for the playoffs, they're the only eastern team that even has a shadow of a chance to win against the western conference champ.

Kaner
12-30-2014, 03:00 PM
Question for Raptors fans, now that you've seen your offense without Derozan for a little while how important do you still feel he is for them? Their offensive efficiency has gone up since he's been out and the last few posts have sounded pretty different from when he first went down and many thought he was the best player on that team.

RAPS424
12-30-2014, 03:02 PM
There are 7 teams in the west I would pick in a 7 game series over every team in the east.

And u think that means anything cuz u think that ? Lol .. Again .. Raps .. 9-2 against west ... Both losses were first 2 games Dero was out

But ... U keep thinking whatever u want .. My guess is u haven't seen a single raptors game , or Bulls ... U just make it up as u go along;)

Tony_Starks
12-30-2014, 03:02 PM
If the Bulls stay healthy and relatively fresh for the playoffs, they're the only eastern team that even has a shadow of a chance to win against the western conference champ.

True that, their balance plus Thibbs gives them a punchers chance and that's still slim as hell. Anybody else is just lunchmeat....

Miltstar
12-30-2014, 03:03 PM
If the Bulls stay healthy and relatively fresh for the playoffs, they're the only eastern team that even has a shadow of a chance to win against the western conference champ.

:facepalm: it's a good thing the games are played on the court and not in the forums!!

I really would like to know who these "unbeatable" teams in the West are!! The West is much deeper no doubt but Toronto's about to show Portland and Golden State that they aren't to be taken lightly... still without our leading scorer from last year!

Mr. Baller
12-30-2014, 03:03 PM
And u think that means anything cuz u think that ? Lol .. Again .. Raps .. 9-2 against west ... Both losses were first 2 games Dero was out

But ... U keep thinking whatever u want .. My guess is u haven't seen a single raptors game , or Bulls ... U just make it up as u go along;)

Watched plenty of Raptor games and I like them a lot. I still think they need to improve down low and get a rim protector to be a threat in the playoffs to the west.

If Thibs didn't run his team into the ground every year then I would love the Bulls

jerellh528
12-30-2014, 03:03 PM
True that, their balance plus Thibbs gives them a punchers chance and that's still slim as hell. Anybody else is just lunchmeat....

Pau has done wonders for them, what a resurgence. I still root for pau

Mr. Baller
12-30-2014, 03:05 PM
And u think that means anything cuz u think that ? Lol .. Again .. Raps .. 9-2 against west ... Both losses were first 2 games Dero was out

But ... U keep thinking whatever u want .. My guess is u haven't seen a single raptors game , or Bulls ... U just make it up as u go along;)

I know you guys in Canada are excited for actually having a relevant basketball team but that team is not ready to win it all

Miltstar
12-30-2014, 03:08 PM
I still think they need to improve down low and get a rim protector

You mean a guy like Jonas Valenciunas?!? Who is improving every game!

pebloemer
12-30-2014, 03:09 PM
Watched plenty of Raptor games and I like them a lot. I still think they need to improve down low and get a rim protector to be a threat in the playoffs to the west.

If Thibs didn't run his team into the ground every year then I would love the Bulls

As a Raptor's fan, I agree with that. The franchise is still waiting on Valanciunas, but at age 22, he is too young to rely on consistently at either end of the floor. He is getting better though.

Mr. Baller
12-30-2014, 03:09 PM
You mean a guy like Jonas Valenciunas?!? Who is improving every game!

Don't get me wrong I like Jonas' game but he is not good defensively and i could be wrong on this but Amir has played worse this year

Mr. Baller
12-30-2014, 03:10 PM
As a Raptor's fan, I agree with that. The franchise is still waiting on Valanciunas, but at age 22, he is too young to rely on consistently at either end of the floor. He is getting better though.

Yup