PDA

View Full Version : Why is Charlotte Struggling?



JasonJohnHorn
12-02-2014, 02:28 AM
First and foremost, I realize that over 30 shots a game are going to guys who aren't even shooting .400 from the floor (Walker, Stephenson, Hairston and Maxiell), so that is obviously a HUGE problem, but the question is WHY are they shooting so low a percentage?


Walker I understand. He's never been a good shooter and takes way too many shots (and Charlotte should have traded him, not re-signed him).

But Stephenson has shown steady improvement each year in his shooting and was great last year.

Haiston's a rookie... so... whatever...

Maxiell was just about a .500 on his career heading into the season and is now shooting more than 10% below his career average?


I actually had these guys picked to finish on top of the division after their season last year and the addition of Stephenson, but... WOW... Was Josh McRoberts THAT important? And Ramon Sessions? This just seems to make no sense to me.

abe_froman
12-02-2014, 02:37 AM
players that dont fit(both in personality and in schemes) and going away from the staunch defense that was their hallmark

mau2392
12-02-2014, 03:10 AM
It just seems that they had chemistry last year. They accepted their identity as a blue collar team and they were successful, but the addition of Stephenson seems to have changed the mentality in Charlotte. I'm not saying Lance is a bad player, but maybe he doesn't have a blue collar mentality that players like McRoberts do have. Maybe trading Lance Stephenson to a team like the Clippers and get Harrison Barnes would help.

IndyRealist
12-02-2014, 03:33 AM
Lack of spacing. They have a lack of shooters getting significant minutes, out of their top 7 only Marvin Williams shoots over 30% from 3, and is the only perimeter oriented player to have a TS over 50%. Opponents can simply pack the paint and cut off all of the driving lanes.

How is this different than last year for the Hornets? Last year they had Josh McRoberts who could facilitate the offense from the high post, and hit 20ft jumpers to spread the floor. With driving lanes Kemba had an easier time getting to the rim, and so defenses had to play off him and give up the 3pt shot. Now they can play him close because the rest of the defenders are collapsing on the paint because they don't have to worry about outside shooters.

Lance in Indy had 2 players in the top 7 who shot 36% from 3, and 2 PFs who regularly take 20ft jumpers. Combine this with a center who got out of the way on offense, and Lance had every driving lane he wanted.

Their team simply does not work as constructed. This is not about how individually good players are. It's certainly not about chemistry. They do not have complementary basketball skills.

ewing
12-02-2014, 07:29 AM
^^^ very solid post. I'd like to add that Josh and Sessions did add skills that are lacking right now. Josh spreads the floor with jump shooting and passing and Ramon does it by giving you a ball handler that moves the ball. Kemba and Lance is just not a well conceived back court IMO. in a preseason thread i said that they would be better off starting Gerald Henderson at the 2 and playing Lance as a 6th man cause Gerald doesn't over dribble and makes good decisions.

JasonJohnHorn
12-02-2014, 08:43 AM
Lack of spacing. They have a lack of shooters getting significant minutes, out of their top 7 only Marvin Williams shoots over 30% from 3, and is the only perimeter oriented player to have a TS over 50%. Opponents can simply pack the paint and cut off all of the driving lanes.

How is this different than last year for the Hornets? Last year they had Josh McRoberts who could facilitate the offense from the high post, and hit 20ft jumpers to spread the floor. With driving lanes Kemba had an easier time getting to the rim, and so defenses had to play off him and give up the 3pt shot. Now they can play him close because the rest of the defenders are collapsing on the paint because they don't have to worry about outside shooters.

Lance in Indy had 2 players in the top 7 who shot 36% from 3, and 2 PFs who regularly take 20ft jumpers. Combine this with a center who got out of the way on offense, and Lance had every driving lane he wanted.

Their team simply does not work as constructed. This is not about how individually good players are. It's certainly not about chemistry. They do not have complementary basketball skills.

Great observations. Thanks for your insight!

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-02-2014, 09:08 AM
Grantland article already mentioned Jordan/Cho are buyers looking for trades already. Anyone is on the table except Walker,Jefferson and Lance.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/charlotte-hornets-lance-stephenson-problems-how-they-might-fix-it/

Chronz
12-02-2014, 01:31 PM
They've had a hard schedule but offense isnt where they've suffered the biggest drop off, it's been defensively where they've lost their identity. And like i mentioned last year, Al Jefferson has historically been an awful defender, he himself would admit it and he's been worse than ever on that end.

They are also without mkg
You take a defensive teams best defender away and there will be some slippage. He's obviously not the sole reason but it's a significant factor imo.

The other reason has been Lance's ego. He's not buying in on either end.

Hawkeye15
12-02-2014, 01:36 PM
the ghost of fat Baron Davis

Shammyguy3
12-02-2014, 02:29 PM
the ghost of fat Baron Davis
:laugh:

ewing
12-02-2014, 02:29 PM
They've had a hard schedule but offense isnt where they've suffered the biggest drop off, it's been defensively where they've lost their identity. And like i mentioned last year, Al Jefferson has historically been an awful defender, he himself would admit it and he's been worse than ever on that end.

They are also without mkg
You take a defensive teams best defender away and there will be some slippage. He's obviously not the sole reason but it's a significant factor imo.

The other reason has been Lance's ego. He's not buying in on either end.


While I agree about MKG- i am a big fan- however bad guard play on offense also leads to defensive failure.

slaker619
12-02-2014, 02:59 PM
I think its the coaching

Goose17
12-02-2014, 03:05 PM
Jordan sold his soul to the devil for bucket loads of talent over 15 years, the catch being he needed to have 15 years of failure straight after?

crewfan13
12-02-2014, 03:22 PM
I think part of it is not having near enough shooters, and another part has been pretty poor defense. They did fairly well defensively last year despite giving fairly significant minutes to poor defenders. Maybe that was a little bit of luck, and having a very simple defensive scheme. Perhaps teams have just figured out how to attack their defense better, and there's probably some regression to the mean happening to their defense as well. Plus, shooting poorly only puts more stress on your already below average defenders.

I think they probably overachieved to an extent last season, and some of their struggles are just simple regression. But like others have said, their "improvements" this offseason don't look like improvements. With an already really poor defender at C, why would they think Marvin Williams would be a good front court mate for Jefferson, especially since Marvin is simply an okay shooter. If you're going to have another mediocre defender alongside Al, he better be a really good outside shooter. And then couple that with no outside threat from the guard positions, and you are inviting teams to pack it in on you defensively.

Dade County
12-02-2014, 04:18 PM
They need more... Chemistry & Shooters.


It just seems that they had chemistry last year. They accepted their identity as a blue collar team and they were successful, but the addition of Stephenson seems to have changed the mentality in Charlotte. I'm not saying Lance is a bad player, but maybe he doesn't have a blue collar mentality that players like McRoberts do have. Maybe trading Lance Stephenson to a team like the Clippers and get Harrison Barnes would help.

And more pieces are going to the Hornets right?

D-Leethal
12-02-2014, 04:21 PM
Last year was a fluke. They weren't sustaining that type of defense with that cast of defenders. It was pretty easy to see them come back to life - their roster is ugly as hell and it was last year too.

DamnGoat
12-02-2014, 04:24 PM
I think a lot of their pieces just don't fit very well together.

Never really liked the Lance fit with that roster and their spacing is a problem.

GodsSon
12-02-2014, 05:04 PM
Stephenson is a cancer

D-Leethal
12-02-2014, 05:41 PM
While I agree about MKG- i am a big fan- however bad guard play on offense also leads to defensive failure.

One of the most overused cliches in hoops is "defense leads to good offense" and one of the most underused is "offense leads to good defense".

Its a lot easier to play good D when the ball goes thru the net and leads to an inbound pass rather than clanking the rim back to the 3 point line right into the opposing PG's lap to start the transition game.

Kemba and Lance in the backcourt is about as poor a fit I've seen since Marbury-Francis.

ewing
12-02-2014, 07:12 PM
One of the most overused cliches in hoops is "defense leads to good offense" and one of the most underused is "offense leads to good defense".

Its a lot easier to play good D when the ball goes thru the net and leads to an inbound pass rather than clanking the rim back to the 3 point line right into the opposing PG's lap to start the transition game.

Kemba and Lance in the backcourt is about as poor a fit I've seen since Marbury-Francis.


good misses let you set up D too. Over dribbling, forcing penetration, stagnate offensive, bad shots, long rebounds, guards crashing the boards ( the great defensive celts didn't offensive rebound and it was a sacrifice for floor balance), lead to cross matches and scrambles. I do think MKG is a hell of a defender though

ewing
12-02-2014, 07:16 PM
Stephenson is a cancer

yeah his teams have never had any success :facepalm:

TrueFan420
12-03-2014, 01:58 AM
Idk about money or if celtics would do this but kemba and MKG for bradley and green. This is assuming rondo is gonna be traded. Hornets get a better fit. Celtics get some young promising pieces for a rebuild.

koreancabbage
12-03-2014, 05:54 AM
One of the most overused cliches in hoops is "defense leads to good offense" and one of the most underused is "offense leads to good defense".

Its a lot easier to play good D when the ball goes thru the net and leads to an inbound pass rather than clanking the rim back to the 3 point line right into the opposing PG's lap to start the transition game.

Kemba and Lance in the backcourt is about as poor a fit I've seen since Marbury-Francis.

works for the Raptors. definitely not a cliche. I think the Raptors are all about that phrase. Derozan shooting sub 40 percent yet we're winning and he's averaging 20+ points lol

benny01
12-03-2014, 04:26 PM
Hey a legitimate thread that could lead to a actual conversation about basketball, Nice.
That being said I have nothing to add.

D-Leethal
12-03-2014, 06:00 PM
works for the Raptors. definitely not a cliche. I think the Raptors are all about that phrase. Derozan shooting sub 40 percent yet we're winning and he's averaging 20+ points lol

Didn't mean to say it wasn't true, overused was probably the wrong word, I meant to say its used all the freakin' time yet nobody ever mentions it in reverse, which is equally as important.

Howard_Zinn
12-04-2014, 02:05 AM
Aren't they struggling most on offense this year? Haven't followed much, but last I heard they were having problems scoring.

Ezio
12-04-2014, 02:20 AM
Obviously they miss the GOAT that is Josh McRoberts.

Chronz
12-04-2014, 03:39 AM
Aren't they struggling most on offense this year? Haven't followed much, but last I heard they were having problems scoring.

They struggled on offense last year. This year they are bad on both ends, they've regressed the most defensively tho.

static_inferno
12-04-2014, 04:17 AM
Because deep down they'll always be the Bobcats.

benny01
12-04-2014, 04:02 PM
They've had a hard schedule but offense isnt where they've suffered the biggest drop off, it's been defensively where they've lost their identity. And like i mentioned last year, Al Jefferson has historically been an awful defender, he himself would admit it and he's been worse than ever on that end.

They are also without mkg
You take a defensive teams best defender away and there will be some slippage. He's obviously not the sole reason but it's a significant factor imo.

The other reason has been Lance's ego. He's not buying in on either end.
After watching the game last night, Identity is an important word here. Nobody seems to know what their role is. Offensively they play a ton of ISO with the other four guys on the floor being high priced spectators. Way too many possessions where Jefferson doesn't even touch the ball.
Defensively, I suspect that missing MKG hurts quite a bit. They miss a lot of rotations and there is very little help defense. The biggest thing defensively that I noticed was that when they play good defense for a few series and the other teams scores their effort goes in the toilet. Again they don't hurry to help and they don't close on three point shooters. That's an effort problem.
They need more shooting, but their main issues are with identity and effort and they both go on coaching.

InRoseWeTrust
12-04-2014, 07:52 PM
Horrible, horrible, horrible spacing.