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View Full Version : Is this year's rookie crop as underwhelming as last year's?



JasonJohnHorn
11-29-2014, 07:34 PM
I have to say, with the hype around Parker and Wiggins, I was expecting a tight race for Rookie of the year, but a tight race that featured guy who were playing well. The race is tight so far, but frankly speaking, MCW and Oladipo were putting on a better show last year than these guys. Noel looks promising, don't get me wrong, but this rookie class seems underwhelming to me.


When I was first watching basketball, there were guys like Daughtery playing like an All-Star his first season.. Dany Manning, David Robinson playing like an MVP his first year. Then guys like Derrick Coleman, Shaq, Mourning, Webber, Kidd, Hill.... guys who STARTED playing at All-Star or near All-Star levels. Granted, these guys were generally older than the one-and-done kids, but I mean, even LBJ and Amare had better rookie seasons coming out of highschool.


Are these guys as underwhelming this year as that last group? Or are we simply never going to see that high a level of talent in rookies given that one-and-done trend? I mean last year MCW was solid, but he lead all rookies in points, assists, rebounds and steals.... that is kinda sad given that when the 76ers put him out as trade bait in the offseason, nobody was even interested in him.

Feel free to take this thread into any direction you want. Player comparison. Draft comparison. Shift trends in terms of how coaches play rookies, or the age at which they are entering having an impact one what they can do as rookies.

Just as a random example: The 1992 draft. You had Clarance Weatherspoon and Latrell Sprewell... guys made the all-rookie second team. The numbers they put up.... 15 or 14 points a game... Weatherspoon with over 7 boards a game and Sprewell with close to 4 boards and 4 assists... they'd be running away with the ROY ... that year they weren't even good enough for the All-Rookie FIRST team. That was a decent draft... great top two picks (Shaq and Mouring), but LaPhonzo Ellis and Weatherspoon never even made an All-Star team and they would have been putting this year's rookies to shame.

Munkeysuit
11-29-2014, 07:47 PM
Yes indeed, but I also feel like we've got some feel good rookies as well, like Marcus Smart and Elfrid Payton

GunFactor187
11-29-2014, 08:15 PM
Even though these things take time, I feel at the end of the day...

2012 Draft Class >>> 2014 Draft Class

JAZZNC
11-29-2014, 08:22 PM
Guess nobody listened to Jerry West when he said this draft class was terrible. The NBA draft has become a complete crap shoot because of the severe inexperience of the players coming out every year.

You can't compare current rookies to those of the 90's. Those guys were much more of a finished product than todays players. You could actually get a guy that could come in and play winning basketball. These guys coming out now know nothing about winning.

D-Leethal
11-29-2014, 08:37 PM
Crazy how this draft dwindled from GOAT sell your moms draft to NADA.

72 Wins
11-29-2014, 08:53 PM
Not to sound biased, but I'm loving what I'm seeing from Mirotic and his progression with the Bulls. If he continues to improve, he has to be in the discussion for ROY.

Stunner
11-29-2014, 08:55 PM
Mirotic has been the best rookie

D-Leethal
11-29-2014, 08:57 PM
I haven't seen all that much - how does Mirotic compare to McBuckets? I come in peace here, but see two guys that play the same position (unless I'm wrong here) and McBuggs looked like a best everytime I have seen him.

Sadds The Gr8
11-29-2014, 09:00 PM
1 ****ing month...

Mr. Baller
11-29-2014, 09:02 PM
The Heat have 2 good rookies so I'm happy. Wiggins and Parker will be fine.

Stunner
11-29-2014, 09:31 PM
I haven't seen all that much - how does Mirotic compare to McBuckets? I come in peace here, but see two guys that play the same position (unless I'm wrong here) and McBuggs looked like a best everytime I have seen him.

Doug is trying to do too much , once he calms down he will be alright . Mirotic has been has solid , he just needs to pull the trigger more on his 3pt shot.

MilkyBombs
11-29-2014, 10:07 PM
Parker is playing well. Jason Kidd has just created a system where numbers will be deflated. Team ball without a primary scorer or ball handler. He's doing absolutely fine.

PurpleLynch
11-29-2014, 10:12 PM
Still too early to judge. Plus a lot of players are already promising starters(Parker,Payton,Wiggins,Noel). Three high picks are heavy injured this year (Gordon,Randle and Embiid). Plus there's a lot of other players who looks promising,like Lavine,Napier and Bogdanovic.

Mr.B
11-29-2014, 10:39 PM
I have to say, with the hype around Parker and Wiggins, I was expecting a tight race for Rookie of the year, but a tight race that featured guy who were playing well. The race is tight so far, but frankly speaking, MCW and Oladipo were putting on a better show last year than these guys. Noel looks promising, don't get me wrong, but this rookie class seems underwhelming to me.


When I was first watching basketball, there were guys like Daughtery playing like an All-Star his first season.. Dany Manning, David Robinson playing like an MVP his first year. Then guys like Derrick Coleman, Shaq, Mourning, Webber, Kidd, Hill.... guys who STARTED playing at All-Star or near All-Star levels. Granted, these guys were generally older than the one-and-done kids, but I mean, even LBJ and Amare had better rookie seasons coming out of highschool.


Are these guys as underwhelming this year as that last group? Or are we simply never going to see that high a level of talent in rookies given that one-and-done trend? I mean last year MCW was solid, but he lead all rookies in points, assists, rebounds and steals.... that is kinda sad given that when the 76ers put him out as trade bait in the offseason, nobody was even interested in him.

Feel free to take this thread into any direction you want. Player comparison. Draft comparison. Shift trends in terms of how coaches play rookies, or the age at which they are entering having an impact one what they can do as rookies.

Just as a random example: The 1992 draft. You had Clarance Weatherspoon and Latrell Sprewell... guys made the all-rookie second team. The numbers they put up.... 15 or 14 points a game... Weatherspoon with over 7 boards a game and Sprewell with close to 4 boards and 4 assists... they'd be running away with the ROY ... that year they weren't even good enough for the All-Rookie FIRST team. That was a decent draft... great top two picks (Shaq and Mouring), but LaPhonzo Ellis and Weatherspoon never even made an All-Star team and they would have been putting this year's rookies to shame.

The reason is simple. The older guys like Robinson, Coleman, Manning, Kidd, Hill, Mourning, and Shaq al played multiple years in college. They all had a chance to grow physically and mentally before getting to the NBA. Every once in a while a guy like Labron, KG, Amare or Kobe will come along but those guys are rare. The majority of the guys will need a couple of years to develop (like they would have if they had stayed in school) physically, mentally, and their game.

JasonJohnHorn
11-29-2014, 10:40 PM
1 ****ing month...

True....but, Larry Johnson got 16 points and 18 rebounds in his second game.

David Robinson got 23 points and 17 boards in his first game.

These guys use to come of the gate playing like starers.... Wiggins and Parker are on lottery teams... Wiggins especially... and it took him how many games just to break double-digits the first time?


I'm not saying these guys are busts after the first month. I'm saying that they aren't coming into the game NBA ready like most first rounders used to. There have always been busts... but only two guys averaging double-digits? That's pretty pathetic for a draft that was supposed to be deep.

Sure.. guys might develop over the season, or over the next few years, but teams used to be able to count on a rotation player in their first year. This year. Last year. 2012 had a few solid guys, but Lillard ran away with ROY with the Brow injured most the year.

curtcocaine
11-29-2014, 10:55 PM
True....but, Larry Johnson got 16 points and 18 rebounds in his second game.

David Robinson got 23 points and 17 boards in his first game.

These guys use to come of the gate playing like starers.... Wiggins and Parker are on lottery teams... Wiggins especially... and it took him how many games just to break double-digits the first time?


I'm not saying these guys are busts after the first month. I'm saying that they aren't coming into the game NBA ready like most first rounders used to. There have always been busts... but only two guys averaging double-digits? That's pretty pathetic for a draft that was supposed to be deep.

Sure.. guys might develop over the season, or over the next few years, but teams used to be able to count on a rotation player in their first year. This year. Last year. 2012 had a few solid guys, but Lillard ran away with ROY with the Brow injured most the year.
Agreed. It was dall the deepest draft in years. The nba did a great job hyping it up.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
11-29-2014, 11:12 PM
The Heat have 2 good rookies so I'm happy. Wiggins and Parker will be fine.

I honestly think that they had 1 of the best drafts. Especially taking into consideration where they picked at. Also feel like the wolves had a very nice one w trading for the #1 pick and getting lavine.

The 76ers we have to wait to see on bc of injury n 1 guy overseas.

Bucks (maybe biased) also may have had a under rated draft depending on Johnny O'Bryant an Damien Inglis who are both yet to play due to injury

crewfan13
11-29-2014, 11:16 PM
LIllard was an example of a guy with multiple years of college experience as well. As last season progressed, I was talking in the Bucks forum that this past draft probably wasn't as strong as it was billed, but it's way to early to tell. Exum was a,ways going to be raw, but as the 4th pick, he has incredibly high potential. A healthy embiid was the best player in the draft, but we haven't even seen him play yet. Wiggins was raw, but athletic. It was always going to take him some time to round into his own offensively. This past draft probably was over hyped some, but let's give it some time before you declare it horrible.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
11-29-2014, 11:20 PM
Parker is playing well. Jason Kidd has just created a system where numbers will be deflated. Team ball without a primary scorer or ball handler. He's doing absolutely fine.
This is so true! Parker was suppose to be ready because of his scoring and how he could score many ways and do it very well! With the bucks he's not given free reign to be given as many shots as he wants. The bucks also don't need someone to score 22+ per game right now since they usually have 3/4 starters in double digits and can have as many as 4 maybe 5 off the bench who can get double digits any given night. They play a very team first offense and do it more by comitee. So Parkers best asset is not being used to full potential.

Stunner
11-29-2014, 11:35 PM
Mirotic was the first rookie to have a 20 and 10 game

Stunner
11-29-2014, 11:40 PM
KJ McDaniels has been a steal for Philly

likemystylez
11-29-2014, 11:47 PM
KJ McDaniels has been a steal for Philly

yeah- I dont know what their record would be without that guy

likemystylez
11-29-2014, 11:49 PM
agreed. It was dall the deepest draft in years. the nba did a great job hyping it up.

this x 100000000

ROY 2 MVP Braun
11-29-2014, 11:49 PM
KJ McDaniels has been a steal for Philly

Yeah I forgot about him in my post above! I really wanted the bucks to draft him n was mad when we passed on him for Inglis. I felt we could have got Inglis at like 38 or our 2nd 2nd rounder whatever number that was

DamnGoat
11-30-2014, 12:03 AM
I haven't seen all that much - how does Mirotic compare to McBuckets? I come in peace here, but see two guys that play the same position (unless I'm wrong here) and McBuggs looked like a best everytime I have seen him.
Mirotic is a PF, McDermott is a SF.

Mirotic is more polished/NBA ready than McDermott. Every time Doug is on the floor he tries to force every play, takes some bad shots and is just missing the few open shots he's gotten. Mirotic on the other hand doesn't look like a Rookie at all when he's gotten consistent playing time. He's a great 3PT shooter (though is sometimes hesitant to take them), can beat most PF's off the dribble, has been decent at drawing fouls and is a great rebounder. It's hard for me to fully judge McDermott to this point though because he just hasn't gotten the minutes and the Bulls don't really need him yet either.

If Mirotic were getting 25-30 MPG consistently, I'd be willing to bet he'd be the most impressive Rookie this season. But since he's 4th in the Bulls big man rotation, he doesn't always get those minutes. Since Taj Gibson's been hurt though, he's played really well (13/7, 50% from 3 in about 27 MPG in the 4 games Taj has missed).

bucketss
11-30-2014, 12:05 AM
did the other rooks have 20,000 people chanting their name like bruno cabocolo? ;)

jerellh528
11-30-2014, 12:09 AM
They need to develop them more in college.

slashsnake
11-30-2014, 02:33 AM
True....but, Larry Johnson got 16 points and 18 rebounds in his second game.

David Robinson got 23 points and 17 boards in his first game.

These guys use to come of the gate playing like starers.... Wiggins and Parker are on lottery teams... Wiggins especially... and it took him how many games just to break double-digits the first time?



I'd blame the one and done for the best guys and using the NBA as a developmental tool for the top lottery guys. But yeah. Everyone started hot 20 years ago.

Christian Laettner 26 and 14 in his 2nd ever NBA game. He was averaging 20 and 8 just 11 games into his career.

Dikembe Mutombo averaged 20 and 16 over his first 5 games (20 and 15 over his first 15 or so).

Of course then a lot of the time, it was force it all on the rookie if he was a top pick. Think of guys like Joe Smith, Laettner, Willie Anderson, Stoudemire, Kittles, Lionel Simmons, Walt Williams... There were a lot of guys who peaked as rookies. When teams realized they were maxed out there and that they weren't getting play worthy of those minutes and usage, they went back to other guys.

Remember early in Dikembe's career when Denver's first option was going to him in the post. Same with Camby... neither had any post game, but it was lets try it first, then if it doesn't work see what else they can do.

Maybe it was me, but those past equivalents of Tyreke Evans or OJ Mayo seemed a lot more popular back then.

JasonJohnHorn
11-30-2014, 08:23 AM
I'd blame the one and done for the best guys and using the NBA as a developmental tool for the top lottery guys. But yeah. Everyone started hot 20 years ago.

Christian Laettner 26 and 14 in his 2nd ever NBA game. He was averaging 20 and 8 just 11 games into his career.

Dikembe Mutombo averaged 20 and 16 over his first 5 games (20 and 15 over his first 15 or so).

Of course then a lot of the time, it was force it all on the rookie if he was a top pick. Think of guys like Joe Smith, Laettner, Willie Anderson, Stoudemire, Kittles, Lionel Simmons, Walt Williams... There were a lot of guys who peaked as rookies. When teams realized they were maxed out there and that they weren't getting play worthy of those minutes and usage, they went back to other guys.

Remember early in Dikembe's career when Denver's first option was going to him in the post. Same with Camby... neither had any post game, but it was lets try it first, then if it doesn't work see what else they can do.

Maybe it was me, but those past equivalents of Tyreke Evans or OJ Mayo seemed a lot more popular back then.

For sure... people were buying up Dee Brown, Robert Stack and Harold Miner posters at the mall back then, and these guys weren't even legit starters! It was crazy. I think part of it was, for young fans, they saw how much ten-year-old rookie cards were going for (Jordan, Hakeem, Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Magic, Bird) and they were hoping that guys rookies like LaPhonzo Ellis and Chris Jackson would be worth as much. lol I get the impression like the sports card market has been flooded, so their isn't a reason to be excited outside of being excited about the game itself.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-30-2014, 08:41 AM
Giannis and Parker are only 19 years old. They should be all stars soon enough. :cheers:

Celticsfan2007
11-30-2014, 09:43 AM
This is the problem with one and done scenario we have become accustomed in past years. Regardless of talent, 90% of players in recent drafts aren't mentally or physically ready for the NBA game or in some cases both.

This also why teams who are bad who get high lottery picks are typically bad for multiple years. One player can no longer IMMEDIATELY turn around a franchise, thus why we have teams who preemptively tanks multiple seasons in order to acquire the most talent for their losses.

I'm a huge advocate of raising the years of service for collegiate players in an effort to improve the quality of the product in the NBA. You look at all these young teams who are rebuilding and they are basically farm teams for the teams who are talented enough to compete for a championship. There's no middle ground in the NBA. You either have to commit to being championship driven (have multiple all-stars) or rebuild through tanking. As long as the NBA continues to allow one and done players to be drafted the parity in the NBA will never be good, because no one coming out of the draft will ever be ready to give a lottery team the immediate impact they need in order to compete will already established teams.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2014, 07:56 PM
we shouldn't be expecting modern rookies to be as good as the rookies from 20 years ago, or even further back. They came into the league at 22, not 19. Big difference.

This years draft has more star talent for sure. Not even a debate currently, but when you constantly have draft classes of 19-20 year olds, it will take a couple of years to really evaluate it.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2014, 07:58 PM
This is the problem with one and done scenario we have become accustomed in past years. Regardless of talent, 90% of players in recent drafts aren't mentally or physically ready for the NBA game or in some cases both.

This also why teams who are bad who get high lottery picks are typically bad for multiple years. One player can no longer IMMEDIATELY turn around a franchise, thus why we have teams who preemptively tanks multiple seasons in order to acquire the most talent for their losses.

I'm a huge advocate of raising the years of service for collegiate players in an effort to improve the quality of the product in the NBA. You look at all these young teams who are rebuilding and they are basically farm teams for the teams who are talented enough to compete for a championship. There's no middle ground in the NBA. You either have to commit to being championship driven (have multiple all-stars) or rebuild through tanking. As long as the NBA continues to allow one and done players to be drafted the parity in the NBA will never be good, because no one coming out of the draft will ever be ready to give a lottery team the immediate impact they need in order to compete will already established teams.

it would also help being able to stomach watching NCAA basketball........It's a ****ing joke nowadays, which is why I laugh my *** off when the, "can NCAA team A beat the worst NBA team". Gtfo, it would be a 40 point spread.

BALLER R
11-30-2014, 08:20 PM
Honestly making these guys spend more time in college would help them develop physically as well as their skills. We would probably have better quality basketball as well and not have a to watch a team as bad as the sixers.

archdevil84
11-30-2014, 08:38 PM
before the draft people were talking about wiggins being the next lebron/jordan

InRoseWeTrust
11-30-2014, 08:53 PM
before the draft people were talking about wiggins being the next lebron/jordan

I still think he's going to be really, really good (all star) in 1-2 years. I think calling him the next LeBron was always a little silly, but there's a lot of talent there.

abe_froman
11-30-2014, 09:03 PM
before the draft people were talking about wiggins being the next lebron/jordan
he wasnt that and most people realized that toward the end of the season,but i think he is the next tmac(who took a couple years to develop).i think a lot of fans got the wrong impression about this draft ,being so hyped.it has a lot of high end talent,but it is/was mostly raw talent.

72 Wins
11-30-2014, 09:29 PM
before the draft people were talking about wiggins being the next lebron/jordan

Last year, yes. Before the draft his stock definitely went down and he wasn't as hyped as before he entered his frosh year. But his stock was still was high enough to go in the top 5.

mau2392
12-01-2014, 01:03 AM
The 2003 draft class that included LeBron, Bosh, Wade, Melo is considered the greatest or one of the greatest draft classes ever. The 2014 draft class is being compared to players that come from a once in a lifetime draft class. We are barely over a month into the season, and I do not think it's fair to being comparing these players to perennial hall of famers just yet. The one-and-done mentality is certainly affecting the way rookies are playing in a league full of grown men, and as fans we are going to have to get used to the idea of waiting for a young player to develop. Case in point is John Wall. It took John Wall four years to play according to the expectations that most people had on his rookie year. The same thing is going to happen with this year's rookies. Do i think this class will be as bad as last years? No. Last years class is a class full of role players, and maybe one or two all starts (Giannis, MCW) However, I also do not think this years class will be as successful as LeBron's class.

TrueFan420
12-01-2014, 01:10 AM
1 ****ing month...
Hey you, stop using that sound logic; it's not welcome here at PSD.

In all reality tho I'd much rather debate this subject than anything lakers/Lebron/ or love leaving after just 1 ****ing month. It should have been reworded to, is 1 and done ruining the draft classes and not producing nba ready talent.

Jeffy25
12-01-2014, 01:31 AM
Guess nobody listened to Jerry West when he said this draft class was terrible. The NBA draft has become a complete crap shoot because of the severe inexperience of the players coming out every year.

You can't compare current rookies to those of the 90's. Those guys were much more of a finished product than todays players. You could actually get a guy that could come in and play winning basketball. These guys coming out now know nothing about winning.

I think this is a very interesting and good point...and shouldn't be overlooked.

We keep expecting an elite draft class, but we keep seeing college freshmen make the jump, and only a handful of guys in the last 20 years could actually make that jump and really be prepared to start and make an impact at that age.

There is value in being in college for a few years and developing correctly.

dalton749
12-01-2014, 02:56 AM
the ncaa needs to start paying its athletes, a lot of these guys have no choice but to go right to the nba because they come from low-income households, and cant afford to work another 3 years for free

2-ONE-5
12-01-2014, 10:58 AM
no they dont need to be paid and even if they were its not going to be the kind of money to make them stay in school anyway. We have been seeing more players stay in school at least so its a start. KY who is known for one and dones has 2 juniors and 2 sophs who were expected to be gone after 1 year and we only saw 10 go in the first round this year