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View Full Version : Josh Smith is on pace to have the worst offensive season of all time.



xnick5757
11-25-2014, 01:01 PM
His current stats:

.374 FG%, .190 3PT%, .399 TS%

-3.5 OBPM, which would be by far the worst season ever for players with over 1000 shots in a season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1980&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=obpm&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=fga&c2comp=gt&c2val=1000&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=obpm&order_by_asc=Y)

Currently taking 14 shots a game and hitting 5 of them.



Check out this list of modern era players with a TS% of under .400 for the season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1980&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=ts_pct&c1comp=lt&c1val=.400&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fga).


He's going to blow past them in terms of shots taken (He's on pace for 1165 shots this season and the highest guy on that list has 446).

I'm not sure you can overstate how awful he is at shooting the basketball.

hugepatsfan
11-25-2014, 01:13 PM
He just needs to shoot himself out of his slump.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-25-2014, 01:14 PM
you miss all the shots you don't take

but seriously this guy has an ego even bigger than Kobe

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-25-2014, 01:15 PM
He just needs to shoot himself out of his slump.

how many seasons has he been on this slump?

xnick5757
11-25-2014, 01:17 PM
you miss all the shots you don't take

but seriously this guy has an ego even bigger than Kobe


problem is he misses all the shots he does take, too! :laugh:

albertajaysfan
11-25-2014, 01:30 PM
you miss all the shots you don't take

but seriously this guy has an ego even bigger than Kobe

The problem with the first part though is that it takes away from someone who might be able to hit that shot. No wonder Monroe wants to get the heck out of there.

Kobe at least has had success to justify it to a certain degree.

valade16
11-25-2014, 01:38 PM
I don't care what else he brings to the table, he needs to be benched immediately.

TrueFan420
11-25-2014, 01:43 PM
I don't get why they signed him or jennings for that matter that one offseason ago and thought it was a good idea.

Corey
11-25-2014, 01:47 PM
Okay, I'm putting a lot of this on Detroit forcing him into roles he isn't successful in.

In nine seasons in Atlanta, the guy had a .516 TS% and averaged a PER (joke of a stat, but shows his value to the team) of 18.4.

In a season and change in Detroit, he's averaging a TS% of .454 and an average PER of 13.8.

Smith is still talented, they need to find a way to incorporate him in situations that are beneficial to him.

He's always been a chucker, he's always had poor shot selection, but he's a heck of a lot better than he has been in Detroit, and I cant put ALL of that on the player.

Doogolas
11-25-2014, 01:53 PM
Okay, I'm putting a lot of this on Detroit forcing him into roles he isn't successful in.

In nine seasons in Atlanta, the guy had a .516 TS% and averaged a PER (joke of a stat, but shows his value to the team) of 18.4.

In a season and change in Detroit, he's averaging a TS% of .454 and an average PER of 13.8.

Smith is still talented, they need to find a way to incorporate him in situations that are beneficial to him.

He's always been a chucker, he's always had poor shot selection, but he's a heck of a lot better than he has been in Detroit, and I cant put ALL of that on the player.

You realize that .518 is still ******, right? Smith isn't valuable. He's bad. And Detroit is ****ing stupid.

From '07/'08 to 10/11 when he was kind of a decent offensive player, here is why:

He shot 43% of the time from within 3 feet (at the basket). He shot only 29% from between 10 and before the three point line (mid range jumpers). And he shot fewer than 10% of the time from deep, which he's awful at.

Well what happened, you might ask? Well, he had a lucky season and hit 33% of his three point attempts, and decided that made him a great shooter. Watch what he's done since:

Only 28.8% of his shots come from within 3 feet. 33% of his shots are from between 10 and before the three point line. And 16% of his shots come from beyond the arc.

Josh Smith is a ****ing moron. He doesn't do what he's good at. He just continues to futilely attempt to be a great shooter, but he will never, ever be a great shooter.

Corey
11-25-2014, 01:56 PM
You realize that .518 is still ******, right? Smith isn't valuable. He's bad. And Detroit is ****ing stupid.

For a primarily jump shooting big, it's not HORRENDOUS, but it's definitely not good. League average is around 53%. My point was he's not as bad as he's playing. Detroit needs to figure out how to put him in roles he can succeed in.

Doogolas
11-25-2014, 02:00 PM
For a primarily jump shooting big, it's not HORRENDOUS, but it's definitely not good. League average is around 53%. My point was he's not as bad as he's playing. Detroit needs to figure out how to put him in roles he can succeed in.

Look at my edited post. He wasn't a primarily jump shooting big back then. The average shot he took was 9 feet from the rim. The last 4 years it has been 11.8 feet. He's just an idiot.

Sandman
11-25-2014, 02:03 PM
great talent, never in a situation that makes sense

always poor shot selection as well but it wouldn't shine through as much with better scorers or a better PG

I remember watching this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWDrKyG4-IU

Corey
11-25-2014, 02:08 PM
Look at my edited post. He wasn't a primarily jump shooting big back then. The average shot he took was 9 feet from the rim. The last 4 years it has been 11.8 feet. He's just an idiot.

Idiot or not, he's still talented and can be used on a good team.

For his career he averages 48% on 2 point attempts. This year he's averaging 40%. That's a really really steep drop. He's shooting 46% from the line, way lower than his career average.

Something is up. I dont think it's as simple as a player dropping off. He's still athletic, he's still competitive, and I have to think there's something else going on. He's clearly not too pleased there, and he's clearly not a starting 3.

He might be a moron but they're giving him a ton of time at the 3 which isn't his best position. He's taking more shots from farther away? That's sort of happens when you're playing the SF instead of the PF.

He has two players that are bigger than him, that play in the post, on the court at the same time as him.

Doogolas
11-25-2014, 02:20 PM
Idiot or not, he's still talented and can be used on a good team.

For his career he averages 48% on 2 point attempts. This year he's averaging 40%. That's a really really steep drop. He's shooting 46% from the line, way lower than his career average.

Something is up. I dont think it's as simple as a player dropping off. He's still athletic, he's still competitive, and I have to think there's something else going on. He's clearly not too pleased there, and he's clearly not a starting 3.

The reason his average is down is because he doesn't take the shots he is good at. Using his career numbers is ****ing dumb, because he's taking completely different shots than he used to.

Here is the situation:
In his good seasons he shot 49.9% from two point range. (This is 07/08 to 10/11 again). Here's the thing, he shot 67% at the rim. That's outstanding. He is good at that. And again, he used to do it a lot (43% of the time!). Even back then, he was AWFUL at midrange. He shot 32% from mid range. THIRTY-TWO PERCENT. That is just bafflingly awful. He had a good 2 point percentage because he actually attacked the damn basket.

Since then:
He is hitting 72% of his shots at the rim. It's actually gone UP. And yet he's doing it WAY LESS. He's so stupid, holy ****. But since he takes SO FEW OF THEM his atrocious 34% shooting from two point land kicks the piss out of his overall shooting percentage.

This year specifically, his scoring at the rim is way down. THAT will go up. He won't continue to be this bad at it. But the fact of the matter is, he IS as bad as he's been since 11/12 because he changed how he plays. And he started doing all the things he sucks at, and none of what he's good at.





He might be a moron but they're giving him a ton of time at the 3 which isn't his best position. He's taking more shots from farther away? That's sort of happens when you're playing the SF instead of the PF.

He has two players that are bigger than him, that play in the post, on the court at the same time as him.

No it's not what happens. This started on the Hawks. He did it his last two years there. What's the excuse? He changed his game like this before he was on the Pistons. He was awful for two seasons before he joined the Pistons. This is completely on him changing up his game. He is good enough with the ball to attack, he just doesn't anymore.

Doogolas
11-25-2014, 02:24 PM
Also, 71% of his minutes this year are at PF. So it's BS to blame a position switch.

Goose17
11-25-2014, 03:30 PM
Monroe to Cali next season? L.A? Oakland? Sac town? Or out to texas? Houston?

Who knows... but if he's smart he'll get the **** out of Detroit.

xxplayerxx23
11-25-2014, 03:44 PM
He sucks BUT he's playing out of position, he would look better at PF

JV35
11-25-2014, 03:50 PM
His current stats:

.374 FG%, .190 3PT%, .399 TS%

-3.5 OBPM, which would be by far the worst season ever for players with over 1000 shots in a season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1980&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=obpm&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=fga&c2comp=gt&c2val=1000&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=obpm&order_by_asc=Y)

Currently taking 14 shots a game and hitting 5 of them.



Check out this list of modern era players with a TS% of under .400 for the season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1980&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=ts_pct&c1comp=lt&c1val=.400&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fga).


He's going to blow past them in terms of shots taken (He's on pace for 1165 shots this season and the highest guy on that list has 446).

I'm not sure you can overstate how awful he is at shooting the basketball.

He's "awful" (no argument there). I can't believe he conned the Pistons into that deal.

Horrible signing. His abysmal production just bears out why it was a bonehead decision by the Pistons.

Corey
11-25-2014, 04:18 PM
Also, 71% of his minutes this year are at PF. So it's BS to blame a position switch.

Smith, Monroe and Drummond all start and play 30+MPG (Drummond is down to 29 per game right now, but that will increase as the season goes on).

The lineup that has played the most minutes together this season is Jennings - KCP - Smith - Monroe - Drummond.

He does play some 4 as well, his starting role is at the 3 which doesn't help him. How is he supposed to settle into a role when they start him at a wing then ask him to fluidly switch between a low post player to a wing? And on defense? It's just a terrible situation for him. They never should have signed him and he never should have been drawn to that roster. It was a bad decision for both sides.

Hawkeye15
11-25-2014, 04:45 PM
yeah, asking a guy who takes too many long 2's to play out of position a lot of the time isn't going to help his numbers..

Goose17
11-25-2014, 04:53 PM
His production at both forward positions (48-min);

SF: 14.4 PPG, 7 RPG, 3 APG, 2.7 T.O, eFG% .403, PER 8.2
PF: 19.6 PPG, 11.2 RPG, 6.4 APG, 3.7 TO, eFG% .375, PER 9.1

At SF, he's holding opponents to 11.5 PER, .41% eFG%
At PF, he's holding opponents to 16.4 PER, .53% eFG%

His net PER at the SF is -3.3
His net PER at the PF is -7.3


So... what position do you want him playing at? Really?



side note; I don't really like using PER but whatever, as long as people know it isn't the be all and end all.

Goose17
11-25-2014, 04:55 PM
His shot selection so far this season;

57% are jump shots, his eFG% on these shots is .295%
42% are "close" shots, his eFG% on these shots is .500%
43% are "inside" shots, his eFG% on these shots is .493%

Wow...

Hawkeye15
11-25-2014, 05:04 PM
His production at both forward positions (48-min);

SF: 14.4 PPG, 7 RPG, 3 APG, 2.7 T.O, eFG% .403, PER 8.2
PF: 19.6 PPG, 11.2 RPG, 6.4 APG, 3.7 TO, eFG% .375, PER 9.1

At SF, he's holding opponents to 11.5 PER, .41% eFG%
At PF, he's holding opponents to 16.4 PER, .53% eFG%

His net PER at the SF is -3.3
His net PER at the PF is -7.3


So... what position do you want him playing at? Really?



side note; I don't really like using PER but whatever, as long as people know it isn't the be all and end all.

He has always been inefficient. He is just clanking away at a higher rate this year..

He has started to lose some athleticism, so his attacking the rim has decreased most likely, meaning he is shooting his favorite shot.....the long 2. Which he sucks at. He is also having a career low year at both the free throw line, and the three point line. Bottom line, this dude needs to be ****ing benched.

PurpleLynch
11-25-2014, 05:53 PM
Or they bench him or he changes his style of game. Just develop a post game because if he keep this up he's gonna be the worst offensive season of all time for real.

Sandman
11-25-2014, 06:27 PM
Or they bench him or he changes his style of game. Just develop a post game because if he keep this up he's gonna be the worst offensive season of all time for real.

this is where I have to ask how much of it is on Smith and how much is on the makeup of the offense and team

clearly Smith has always been kind of a chucker -- declining numbers at the free throw line say it all

But I also think that would be masked more with a better PG or just another scorer in general. It doesn't help that BJ is a chucker too.

Hawkeye15
11-25-2014, 06:33 PM
this is where I have to ask how much of it is on Smith and how much is on the makeup of the offense and team

clearly Smith has always been kind of a chucker -- declining numbers at the free throw line say it all

But I also think that would be masked more with a better PG or just another scorer in general. It doesn't help that BJ is a chucker too.

yeah, Detroit has a few nice players, but they are not the proper mesh.

kobe4thewinbang
11-25-2014, 08:26 PM
Just an athletic nitwit. I love it when he shoots 3's on the video game, ha! Like, thank you for the ball back. Until he hits one and I'm like :no:

I still don't understand why the Pistons signed him.

Doogolas
11-25-2014, 09:17 PM
His shot selection so far this season;

57% are jump shots, his eFG% on these shots is .295%
42% are "close" shots, his eFG% on these shots is .500%
43% are "inside" shots, his eFG% on these shots is .493%

Wow...

Can haz percents?

Jeffy25
11-26-2014, 01:03 AM
He and Brandon Jennings shooting on the same floor together

efrost6
11-26-2014, 02:09 AM
His current stats:

.374 FG%, .190 3PT%, .399 TS%

-3.5 OBPM, which would be by far the worst season ever for players with over 1000 shots in a season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1980&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=obpm&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=fga&c2comp=gt&c2val=1000&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=obpm&order_by_asc=Y)

Currently taking 14 shots a game and hitting 5 of them.



Check out this list of modern era players with a TS% of under .400 for the season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1980&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=ts_pct&c1comp=lt&c1val=.400&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fga).


He's going to blow past them in terms of shots taken (He's on pace for 1165 shots this season and the highest guy on that list has 446).

I'm not sure you can overstate how awful he is at shooting the basketball.

Stephan Marbury makes the list. Wow!

jaydubb
11-26-2014, 07:36 AM
You'd think that a guy like him that likes taking so many jump shots would actually work on improving his jump shot... That's obviously not happening..

Wrigheyes4MVP
11-26-2014, 11:29 AM
He needs to get out of Detroit. Terrible fit for him. He would be much better in a different system.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-28-2014, 12:11 PM
Shocked the Kings had interests in him. But that was to get the buddy trio of Rondo,Gay,Smith all paired up with Cousins. They might still be able to pull it off. Smith can be had for peanuts so most likely any of the Kings bad contracts be about the same. Then deciding factor is if Rondo would stay with Kings or not. We all heard he wouldn't stay last time around. But Celtics are in a rebuild now. He doesn't really fit in so wouldn't be shocked if it only took Stauskas and filler.

mark1125
11-28-2014, 01:07 PM
I don't get why they signed him or jennings for that matter that one offseason ago and thought it was a good idea.

Because despite his immediate success and titles, Joe Dumars was a horrible GM. It ius going to be awhile before Van Gundy can turn around that mess.

TrueFan420
11-28-2014, 02:52 PM
Shocked the Kings had interests in him. But that was to get the buddy trio of Rondo,Gay,Smith all paired up with Cousins. They might still be able to pull it off. Smith can be had for peanuts so most likely any of the Kings bad contracts be about the same. Then deciding factor is if Rondo would stay with Kings or not. We all heard he wouldn't stay last time around. But Celtics are in a rebuild now. He doesn't really fit in so wouldn't be shocked if it only took Stauskas and filler.

Me too at first but after seeing what Malone has done with gay and cousins, less so. If he can get thru to smith and get him to tap into his skillset better/ more effiecently that group would be very dangerous to face. And that's not including rondo. I think he'd be a bad fit as spacing wouldn't be good enough.

TrueFan420
11-28-2014, 02:57 PM
Because despite his immediate success and titles, Joe Dumars was a horrible GM. It ius going to be awhile before Van Gundy can turn around that mess.

Was he there when brown was running the show and unofficially calling the shots?

Side note... Always thought brown would make a solid GM.