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DemarDerozan
11-23-2014, 04:45 PM
Based on last year it's unlikely that any of the early candidates will win the award. Through 10-15 games last season LMA was considered the favorite.

This year guys like Lowry, Wall, DMC, and even Harden are being mentioned early. This may be the best MVP race in nearly a decade since KD is injured and LBJ isn't winning.

I would go with Wall personally as far as stats, clutch play and winning go.

Who do you got?

InRoseWeTrust
11-23-2014, 04:49 PM
If AD can get NO into the playoffs, even as an 8th seed, I think he has to get it.

dalton749
11-23-2014, 04:50 PM
Based on last year it's unlikely that any of the early candidates will win the award. Through 10-15 games last season LMA was considered the favorite.

This year guys like Lowry, Wall, DMC, and even Harden are being mentioned early. This may be the best MVP race in nearly a decade since KD is injured and LBJ isn't winning.

I would go with Wall personally as far as stats, clutch play and winning go.

Who do you got?

you da real mvp demarderozan

abe_froman
11-23-2014, 04:55 PM
i'd say it has to be curry as of right now

.....but a.d. is having such a fantastic year that the only thing that is in his way is record(maybe they make an exception for him just because its so good?)

Ariza's Better
11-23-2014, 05:01 PM
Anthony Davis.

Kaner
11-23-2014, 05:04 PM
If the season ended today it'd have to go to Anthony Davis even outside of the playoffs his PER would be 4 points better then Wilt's record and 10 pts higher then the next best this season. It'd be arguably the most statistically dominant season ever. I don't think he maintains it so he's not my favorite to win but he's the MVP so far.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-23-2014, 05:08 PM
Anthony Davis.

Zefflin
11-23-2014, 05:21 PM
Curry and Davis

Goose17
11-23-2014, 05:44 PM
If New Orleans earn a playoff spot it will be Davis.

If not, I'm looking at Curry. Marc Gasol and Cousins could be within a shout depending on if they can be consistent and if they make the playoffs (Memphis will). I think Harden could end up in the discussion, it's ludicrous that Houston have won so many games with various injuries and such a terrible offense. His shot has been off but he's still playing well. His assist numbers and rebounding numbers are good, he just needs to get his efficiency up and keep Houston relevant.

Bruno
11-23-2014, 05:45 PM
If AD can get NO into the playoffs, even as an 8th seed, I think he has to get it.

I'd like that, but almost every recent MVP has come from a top 2 spot in conference. top 3 rarely.

tredigs
11-23-2014, 05:53 PM
AD's individual production definitely makes it interesting, but you can't have a non playoff team or even a low seed playoff team winning MVP. I can't recall a time in NBA history where a non HCA team had a player win it. Generally you need the #2 seed at worst. Their D is flat out weak, and some of that has to fall on him despite the great box-score stats (something I've mentioned concerning his BBIQ on D before).

Curry is top 5 in PER (4), WS/48 (2), VORP (2), Box +/- (1), and 6th in points + 5th in assists. Not bad for only playing 32 mpg due to all the blowouts. Leading a 2 loss team, I'd say he has to be the favorite in the early going.

Bruno
11-23-2014, 06:04 PM
I just checked back to 1980. Every MVP has been 1st or 2nd in their bracket. The only three exceptions were in 1988 when Jordans bulls were #3 in the EC, Moses in '82 with Houston (#6) and Dr. J in '81 (#3). So you have to go back over 30 years to find MVPs who weren't at the top of their conference, and it hasn't happened once in the last 25 years.

Even in 2006 when Phoenix had the third best record in the west and Nash won MVP, they were the default #2 because they led their devision (Dallas and SA had better records).

right now New Orleans is 7-5 and out of the playoff picture. quarter century MVP voting trends say Davis doesn't have a chance, no matter how great he is.

Im still liking Curry as a dark horse MVP. If GS stays healthy, I think he's MVP and they finish first or second in the west.

tredigs
11-23-2014, 06:05 PM
If I had to choose a top 5 I might go:

1. Curry
2. AD
3. Lillard
4. Lowry
5. Cousins

Bruno
11-23-2014, 06:09 PM
AD's individual production definitely makes it interesting, but you can't have a non playoff team or even a low seed playoff team winning MVP. I can't recall a time in NBA history where a non HCA team had a player win it. Generally you need the #2 seed at worst. Their D is flat out weak, and some of that has to fall on him despite the great box-score stats (something I've mentioned concerning his BBIQ on D before).

Curry is top 5 in PER (4), WS/48 (2), VORP (2), Box +/- (1), and 6th in points + 5th in assists. Not bad for only playing 32 mpg due to all the blowouts. Leading a 2 loss team, I'd say he has to be the favorite in the early going.

Plus, Golden State is 1st in SRS. 9th in offensive rating (trending up) and 2nd in defensive rating. all the advanced team stats say that GS is deserving of their #2 position in the west right now. i'm liking Golden State.

GunFactor187
11-23-2014, 06:28 PM
Anthony Davis hands down.

lamzoka
11-23-2014, 06:35 PM
Anthony Davis

jerellh528
11-23-2014, 06:43 PM
Davis and curry are the front runners by a bit. Curry with the edge due to record

Minimal
11-23-2014, 06:48 PM
Davis/Cousins for me

Miltstar
11-23-2014, 08:42 PM
How could you pick anyone other than AD right now? Cousins is a distant second IMO with LBJ Curry and Harden rounding out the top 5

Raptors spread the love too much for any one of them to work their way into the conversation

Cal827
11-23-2014, 08:44 PM
Anthony Davis, Steph Curry, Demarcus Cousins, Kevin Love

KnicksorBust
11-23-2014, 08:47 PM
Curry. Its wild to think Lebron and kd might be out this year

Miltstar
11-23-2014, 08:55 PM
Curry. Its wild to think Lebron and kd might be out this year

I wouldn't count either out just yet, things can turn around pretty quick... If KD takes this team to the playoffs after their awful start he's gotta be considered

BALLER R
11-23-2014, 09:15 PM
AD or Curry. I wouldn't complain about either if AD gets his team to the playoffs.

jerellh528
11-23-2014, 09:17 PM
Don't count out kd yet, I read he can come back next week

JordansBulls
11-23-2014, 10:00 PM
AD's individual production definitely makes it interesting, but you can't have a non playoff team or even a low seed playoff team winning MVP. I can't recall a time in NBA history where a non HCA team had a player win it. Generally you need the #2 seed at worst. Their D is flat out weak, and some of that has to fall on him despite the great box-score stats (something I've mentioned concerning his BBIQ on D before).

Curry is top 5 in PER (4), WS/48 (2), VORP (2), Box +/- (1), and 6th in points + 5th in assists. Not bad for only playing 32 mpg due to all the blowouts. Leading a 2 loss team, I'd say he has to be the favorite in the early going.
Kareem won MVP without even making the playoffs. So if AD breaks PER record he certainly can win it.

MrfadeawayJB
11-23-2014, 10:08 PM
Davis, curry, Gasol in no order

Blitzbolt
11-23-2014, 10:14 PM
Davis, curry, Gasol in no order
No one cares about Gasol or the Grizzlies bruh. If Gasol wins the MVP people will be mad just like when he won the the DPOY.
Gasol Is not as flashy as Curry and Davis....

bucketss
11-23-2014, 10:17 PM
if raps keep it up, lowry has a legit shot!!!!!!

koreancabbage
11-23-2014, 10:20 PM
Curry with the legit win

AD if records don't matter too much

koreancabbage
11-23-2014, 10:21 PM
if raps keep it up, lowry has a legit shot!!!!!!

He will be a candidate but I doubt he wins it unless the Raptors somehow ended up with the best record in the NBA and Lowry keeps shooting the way he is shooting.

tredigs
11-23-2014, 10:32 PM
No one cares about Gasol or the Grizzlies bruh. If Gasol wins the MVP people will be mad just like when he won the the DPOY.
Gasol Is not as flashy as Curry and Davis....

Eh spare the pity. He just doesn't have the #'s. 20/8/3 and doesn't rank in the top 10 in any advanced stats. He's playing great, though.

DemarDerozan
11-23-2014, 10:32 PM
if raps keep it up, lowry has a legit shot!!!!!!

His stats and performance are very similar to Chauncey Billups when the Pistons were dominating ten years ago. In fact the Raps and the Grizz really remind me of those teams. Chauncey finished top five a couple times but never had the star appeal to win MVP.

tredigs
11-23-2014, 10:34 PM
Kareem won MVP without even making the playoffs. So if AD breaks PER record he certainly can win it.
Good call. So once in 75 years it has happened.

DemarDerozan
11-23-2014, 10:34 PM
I think it would be an awesome Finals match up... but the Raps vs Grizz would probably be the lowest rated Finals on TV of all time. However, it might bring international viewership up significantly.

rhino17
11-23-2014, 11:23 PM
Anthony Davis IF he can make the playoffs (can't win mvp if you can't make the playoffs)

Otherwise, its a 3-way race between Steph Curry, James Harden, and Marc Gasol (Whoever's team ends up with the best record of that group will probably win it if Davis doesn't make the playoffs)

I can't imagine the Kings keeping up what they are doing for Cousins to realistically be in the conversation

blahblahyoutoo
11-23-2014, 11:27 PM
curry, AD, bosh, marc gasol

Crackadalic
11-24-2014, 12:11 AM
As of now Marc Gasol.

long term Steph Curry

albertajaysfan
11-24-2014, 03:43 AM
I think it would be an awesome Finals match up... but the Raps vs Grizz would probably be the lowest rated Finals on TV of all time. However, it might bring international viewership up significantly.

The team in Canada vs. the team that got away. I agree on the crappy ratings part though. But I would tune into every game :)

CluTcH_c1tY
11-24-2014, 05:08 PM
Harden

verceroth
11-24-2014, 07:03 PM
Marc Gasol. Curry second. AD third. No, Harden is not in the conversation.

Jeffy25
11-25-2014, 12:07 AM
AD
Harden
Paul
Curry
Lowry

mightybosstone
11-25-2014, 12:17 AM
Marc Gasol. Curry second. AD third. No, Harden is not in the conversation.
This is just foolish. Harden's the best player for a team with an 11-3 record that has been hurt all season long. He's also second in the league in WS and top 10 in pretty much every relevant advanced statistical category. And that was before the monster game he just had tonight.

I don't know that I would pick Harden as the league MVP, but to say he's not even in the conversation is just plain ignorant.

GritGrind7
11-25-2014, 01:15 AM
I don't get the Houston fans on this board.. Harden is not in the MVP conversation.

I'm from Memphis, but Anthony Davis is 1st. Curry 2nd. Marc Gasol 3rd. Ive read many people with the same picks on here.

CluTcH_c1tY
11-25-2014, 01:34 AM
Care to argue why Harden is not in the Conversation? The Rockets have been snake bitten 3 starters were out yet he carried the team to another victory. Can't satisfy all the haters.

bbcmillionaire
11-25-2014, 01:54 AM
Not just as a bulls fan, just as a fan of the nba... Id like to throw jimmy butler name in the convo

abe_froman
11-25-2014, 01:57 AM
Not just as a bulls fan, just as a fan of the nba... Id like to throw jimmy butler name in the convo

as a bulls fan and nba fan-he's having a very good year,but no way,there are half a dozen guys more deserving of the mvp.he'll prob win the mip award though

bbcmillionaire
11-25-2014, 02:05 AM
as a bulls fan and nba fan-he's having a very good year,but no way,there are half a dozen guys more deserving of the mvp.he'll prob win the mip award though

lol Ik I just thought he deserved to mentioned because he's becoming a helluva 2way player

But my vote goes for Davis, because he's going crazy this year

GritGrind7
11-25-2014, 02:11 AM
Care to argue why Harden is not in the Conversation? The Rockets have been snake bitten 3 starters were out yet he carried the team to another victory. Can't satisfy all the haters.

I'm not a hater, I'm realistic. Anthony Davis is the clear 1st. Followed by Curry. Then Marc Gasol. Watch these guys play and how it effects their team before you put Harden in their category. It's night and day. By the end of the season I'm sure Lebron will be joining them.

For every basket Harden makes, he gives up two on the other end. That should disqualify any serious talks of him an MVP. MVPs also don't shoot below 40% from the field my man..

mightybosstone
11-25-2014, 09:53 AM
I'm not a hater, I'm realistic. Anthony Davis is the clear 1st. Followed by Curry. Then Marc Gasol. Watch these guys play and how it effects their team before you put Harden in their category.
I do watch them. You clearly haven't watched the Rockets this season. They've been without three of their starters (including Dwight) for a good chunk of the early season, and they're still winning games and have an 11-3 record. Harden pretty much single-handedly defeated Dallas and New York with back-to-back performances of 32+ points and 6+ assists. Also, aside from Davis (who I would also have as MVP right now), he's ahead of Curry and Gasol in several statistical categories. You could easily make a case that he's more deserving than those guys or at least as deserving, and you'd have to be completely dense to think otherwise.


It's night and day.
No. It's not. Watch the games and look at the numbers before you begin an argument, rookie.


For every basket Harden makes, he gives up two on the other end. That should disqualify any serious talks of him an MVP. MVPs also don't shoot below 40% from the field my man..
Except he's not this season. He's making far more defensive plays and giving up far few easy baskets on defense this season. Again, let me continue to state that I don't think Harden is a good defender. But he's not the train wreck he was last year, and the Rockets defense has been better because of it. He also doesn't shoot less than 40% from the floor any more (check your updated stats, friend), and his overall scoring efficiency is still far better than league average. Now that he's found his 3-point stroke, that trend should continue to improve.

mightybosstone
11-25-2014, 09:58 AM
Just to state one more time, so that I'm not called a homer again, I'm not saying James Harden is the MVP right now. I think Davis deserves that honor as long as he's putting up these ridiculous numbers and New Orleans is in the playoff hunt. Nor am I saying that he's clearly ahead of Curry and Gasol, who are both very strong candidates at this point on very good teams. I'm saying that it's totally subjective this early in the season, and Harden at least deserves to be in that discussion. Based on the fact that numerous non-Rockets fans have named him in their lists, clearly I'm not the only one who feels that way.

GritGrind7
11-25-2014, 10:30 AM
Apparently I haven't watched any rockets games. But apparently you've watched every other candidates games more than enough. Saying you're not a homer, and actually not being one are two different things.

Being above league average in efficiency, with a weak schedule, and being well below league average on the defensive end don't deserve MVP discussion.

If you truly watched New Orleans, Golden State, or Memphis - you wouldn't consider harden in that category. They also don't need any excuses or phrases -above league average.

thenaj17
11-25-2014, 11:36 AM
This is just foolish. Harden's the best player for a team with an 11-3 record that has been hurt all season long. He's also second in the league in WS and top 10 in pretty much every relevant advanced statistical category. And that was before the monster game he just had tonight.

I don't know that I would pick Harden as the league MVP, but to say he's not even in the conversation is just plain ignorant.

You're usually biased and i hate Harden with a passion even from his OKC days but a top record and leading player on the team (if you keep winning while Dwight is out) and he'll be in with a chance for sure

thenaj17
11-25-2014, 11:44 AM
Apparently I haven't watched any rockets games. But apparently you've watched every other candidates games more than enough. Saying you're not a homer, and actually not being one are two different things.

Being above league average in efficiency, with a weak schedule, and being well below league average on the defensive end don't deserve MVP discussion.

If you truly watched New Orleans, Golden State, or Memphis - you wouldn't consider harden in that category. They also don't need any excuses or phrases -above league average.

I think Marc Gasol is getting massively overrated in terms of MVP. Griz have several very good players and their record is more a 'collective sum of it's parts' rather than Gasol's individual greatness. However, he's their best player (just about) and they have a great win %.

Davis can't be in the discussion if he's not even in the playoffs, that's just not happening. If the award was best player of the year award, like in football (soccer as you call it) then AD would get it....but that isn't the case.

Curry, Harden, Lowry and Gasol will be the leaders for now but Durant if Thunder make playoffs with his comeback & LeBron (when they do inevitably turn it around) will definitely be in the discussion in 4-5 months time

DemarDerozan
11-27-2014, 10:44 PM
Just to state one more time, so that I'm not called a homer again, I'm not saying James Harden is the MVP right now. I think Davis deserves that honor as long as he's putting up these ridiculous numbers and New Orleans is in the playoff hunt. Nor am I saying that he's clearly ahead of Curry and Gasol, who are both very strong candidates at this point on very good teams. I'm saying that it's totally subjective this early in the season, and Harden at least deserves to be in that discussion. Based on the fact that numerous non-Rockets fans have named him in their lists, clearly I'm not the only one who feels that way.

He's up there... And I am no where near a Harden fan, I wasn't crazy about his comments during preseason. But he's been playing his *** off.

alexander_37
11-28-2014, 01:09 AM
I don't get the Houston fans on this board.. Harden is not in the MVP conversation.

I'm from Memphis, but Anthony Davis is 1st. Curry 2nd. Marc Gasol 3rd. Ive read many people with the same picks on here.

Ignorance at it's finest...

Tmath
11-28-2014, 01:24 AM
All I know and care about is.. Kyle Lowry is the MVP of the Raptors. Co MVP is Lou Williams.

Sly Guy
11-28-2014, 01:51 AM
Davis is really going off this year. He wins because without him the Pels are playing for ping pongs.

Others in the conversation would be Curry, Lowry, Gasol. All playing big parts on teams doing exceptionally well right now.

prodigy
11-28-2014, 10:01 AM
Lebron is winning now and playing great. So its gonna be hard for anyone to pass him up.

bucketss
11-28-2014, 10:32 AM
Louuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

PurpleLynch
11-28-2014, 11:31 AM
Right now Anthony,stats wise. Gasol is my personal choice for MVP so far. Curry,Harden and Cousins are also contenders imo.

Mr.B
11-28-2014, 05:12 PM
Dirk

Tony_Starks
11-28-2014, 05:49 PM
Steph Curry closely followed by Marc Gasol....

Sactown
11-28-2014, 05:51 PM
Ignorance at it's finest...

While I think Harden receives way to much hate on these forum boards I don't think it's out of the question to doubt whether Harden is an MVP candidate so far..

The rockets have feasted on an easy schedule (easiest in the NBA I believe?), and while they are winning the games they should be (Bravo) He hasn't looked particularly dominate... He's posting 25/6/6 on poor shooting performances that are luckily balanced by his ability to get to the line, and sub par defense..

I see plenty of candidates far ahead of Harden honestly,

Marc Gasol
Curry
Davis
CP3
DMC
Dirk?
LMA?

I just haven't seen him as particularly dominate during a schedule period where he should be. Not that he isn't an ALL STAR.

alexander_37
11-28-2014, 06:25 PM
While I think Harden receives way to much hate on these forum boards I don't think it's out of the question to doubt whether Harden is an MVP candidate so far..

The rockets have feasted on an easy schedule (easiest in the NBA I believe?), and while they are winning the games they should be (Bravo) He hasn't looked particularly dominate... He's posting 25/6/6 on poor shooting performances that are luckily balanced by his ability to get to the line, and sub par defense..

I see plenty of candidates far ahead of Harden honestly,

Marc Gasol
Curry
Davis
CP3
DMC
Dirk?
LMA?

I just haven't seen him as particularly dominate during a schedule period where he should be. Not that he isn't an ALL STAR.

You can't discount him for being amazing at getting to the line... It's a skill just like shooting 3's or dribbling.

Sactown
11-28-2014, 06:27 PM
You can't discount him for being amazing at getting to the line... It's a skill just like shooting 3's or dribbling.

I agree absolutely, but it doesn't change the fact that he's missing 11 shots a game and turning it over an additional 4 times. He's a great player, but he hasn't dominated like an MVP candidate should over their span of the schedule

So far he's posted career highs in TOV% Usage%, but essentially a career low in efficiency in scoring

alexander_37
11-28-2014, 06:32 PM
I agree absolutely, but it doesn't change the fact that he's missing 11 shots a game and turning it over an additional 4 times. He's a great player, but he hasn't dominated like an MVP candidate should over their span of the schedule

FG % does not equal scoring efficiency..... Davis misses 8 shots a game curry misses 8 shots a game. You say 11 like its some insane number...

And he is also averaging almost 7 assists per game ... his turnover ratio is right in line if a little bit higher than anyone else in his assits range.

Sactown
11-28-2014, 06:33 PM
FG % does not equal scoring efficiency.....

And he is also averaging almost 7 assists per game ... his turnover ratio is right in line if a little bit higher than anyone else in his assits range.
His TS% is second lowest in his career only above his rookie season.. I wasn't talking about FG%..

also his assists are closer to 6.5 than 7, but regardless, I don't think it's irrational (or being a hater) to leave him out, and if his numbers continue at this trend and they remain the same winning % at years end, I would definitely put him in the race..

But do you honestly think you guys can keep this win pace up if Harden continues to struggle?

alexander_37
11-28-2014, 06:36 PM
You also conveniently leave out the fact that his supporting cast has been decimated like nobody in the league. Their entire post game is gone.

He may have had a pretty easy schedule but the number 2 and 3 option on his team are gone and they have barely missed a beat because HE is dominating.

Show me any other team with a comparable record missing THREE starters.

Sactown
11-28-2014, 06:44 PM
You also conveniently leave out the fact that his supporting cast has been decimated like nobody in the league. Their entire post game is gone.

He may have had a pretty easy schedule but the number 2 and 3 option on his team are gone and they have barely missed a beat because HE is dominating.

Show me any other team with a comparable record missing THREE starters.

His cast has been decimated, but to say the winning has been on his shoulders alone? I don't think that's fair either,

Against the Kings Isaiah and Monte won you the game with great play, Against Dallas Patrick Beverly and Monte were great

And lets not pretend that Houstons #2 ranked defense is because Hardens anchoring it...

The defense has been able to compensate for the offenses short comings.

Yet again, I don't dislike Harden, I think he can be an MVP candidate this season, but so far I don't think he's proved it

Also I didn't conveniently leave anything out, PB has missed a few games and Dwight has missed the last 5?

But regardless I don't think it takes a great supporting cast to beat, Philly twice, LA twice, UTAH, BOSTON , Minny, OKC, and NY... I don't think offensive struggles against these teams regardless of supporting cast are acceptable.. You beat up on a Minny team without its best players, a Kings team without its #2 and #3... OKC without its #1 and #2, ,Melo missed most of NY's game,.

TrueFan420
11-28-2014, 07:40 PM
as a bulls fan and nba fan-he's having a very good year,but no way,there are half a dozen guys more deserving of the mvp.he'll prob win the mip award though
Maybe but if Gay keeps playing this effiecetly I think he's more deserving of MIP than Bulter. Butler showed flashes of his potential and with deng gone has more PT and a larger role. So some of his increases were expected.

Gay was considered a great talent but chucker and someone that wasn't gone reach his potential at this point in his career. Malone got him playing night and day. I think he keeps this up its his award to lose.

Blitzbolt
11-28-2014, 08:20 PM
Davis He is the best player so far but he needs to figure it out...he needs Ws .Gasol and Randolph badly domanited him ealry in the season though I haven't seen him play after that but his stats are ridiculous.

Sactown
11-28-2014, 09:28 PM
Maybe but if Gay keeps playing this effiecetly I think he's more deserving. Butler showed flashes of his potential and with deng gone has more PT and a larger role. So some of his increases were expected.

Gay was considered a great talent but chucker and someone that wasn't gone reach his potential at this point in his career. Malone got him playing night and day. I think he keeps this up its his award to lose.

??? Gay isn't even the MVP of our team lol

Sactown
11-28-2014, 09:29 PM
Davis He is the best player so far but he needs to figure it out...he needs Ws .Gasol and Randolph badly domanited him ealry in the season though I haven't seen him play after that but his stats are ridiculous.

Makes sense they would dominate him, he isn't very strong yet and it limits his man defense, great weak side defender though

TrueFan420
11-28-2014, 09:58 PM
??? Gay isn't even the MVP of our team lol

Should have clarified that was in response to the person I quoted last sentence... He said butler wasn't a mvp but mip which I think gay has a great cause for.

Lakers + Giants
11-28-2014, 10:32 PM
Curry
Gasol
AD
Lowry

Thats basically it tbh.

jerellh528
11-29-2014, 01:21 AM
WESTBROOK!!!! Lol

Kaner
11-29-2014, 02:44 AM
Maybe but if Gay keeps playing this effiecetly I think he's more deserving of MIP than Bulter. Butler showed flashes of his potential and with deng gone has more PT and a larger role. So some of his increases were expected.

Gay was considered a great talent but chucker and someone that wasn't gone reach his potential at this point in his career. Malone got him playing night and day. I think he keeps this up its his award to lose.

The bolded is wrong, Butler was 2nd in the nba in mpg last season and the Bulls had alot less offensive weapons with no Rose or Gasol so he had plenty of room to take a bigger role offensively but he hadn't developed his offense enough to capitalize on it yet.

At this point in the season Jimmy is many times more deserving then Gay for MIP, it's barely worth discussing. Am not sure if you've been paying attention to Butler at all this season or last but, check da stats.

Last season 13/5/2.6 on 52% ts 13.5 PER

This season 22/6/3.2 on 61% ts 22.5 PER

That's about as drastic a transformation from 1 season to the next as your going to find and it's by a player that just about nobody thought had all-star potential.

abe_froman
11-29-2014, 03:45 AM
Maybe but if Gay keeps playing this effiecetly I think he's more deserving of MIP than Bulter. Butler showed flashes of his potential and with deng gone has more PT and a larger role. So some of his increases were expected.

Gay was considered a great talent but chucker and someone that wasn't gone reach his potential at this point in his career. Malone got him playing night and day. I think he keeps this up its his award to lose.
gay-
'14: 20/6/3 at 54 ts(but jumped to 57% after the trade)
'15: 21/6/4 at 56 ts

butler
'14: 13/5/2 at 53 ts
'15 22/6/3 at 62 ts

one is clearly much more dramatic of an improvement(the point of the mip award)than the other.gay has produced basically the same since he's gotten on the kings

cmellofan15
11-29-2014, 10:55 AM
Curry
Harden

Gasol

TrueFan420
11-29-2014, 12:16 PM
gay-
'14: 20/6/3 at 54 ts(but jumped to 57% after the trade)
'15: 21/6/4 at 56 ts

butler
'14: 13/5/2 at 53 ts
'15 22/6/3 at 62 ts

one is clearly much more dramatic of an improvement(the point of the mip award)than the other.gay has produced basically the same since he's gotten on the kings

Look at butlers numbers without deng playing tho. He put up similar numbers if I'm not mistaken. With deng gone and his role expanded it was expected his numbers would go up. As well as he's young and still developing. Gay is an old dog that learned a new trick. That's more impressive to me.

Kaner
11-29-2014, 12:41 PM
Look at butlers numbers without deng playing tho. He put up similar numbers if I'm not mistaken. With deng gone and his role expanded it was expected his numbers would go up. As well as he's young and still developing. Gay is an old dog that learned a new trick. That's more impressive to me.

You are mistaken thou, he put up about 13.5/5/3 after the Luol Deng trade on ~50% ts. You know that Deng was traded in january right? We saw Jimmy after the Deng trade last year, he wasn't anything remotely close to the all-star he's been this season. During preseason and late offseason all Bulls fans we're hearing about was all the work Jimmy put into his offensive game over the offseason. Spending all of his time between the gym and eating then back to the gym. He's a completely different player, just watching him this season compared to last, anyone who has watched a Bulls game this season and a game last season would be able to tell you the same.

Shammyguy3
12-01-2014, 12:25 AM
Being more impressed that an old dog learned a new trick has absolutely nothing to do with a player being more improved than the other TF420. Kaner/abe broke down why Gay to Butler in the most improved category is comparing an apple tree to an orange peel.

YAALREADYKNO
12-02-2014, 11:01 AM
steph curry no doubt

Hawkeye15
12-02-2014, 11:25 AM
probably Curry right now

Verbal Christ
12-04-2014, 12:40 PM
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/102930776/james-harden-nba-mvp-houston-rockets

tredigs
12-04-2014, 01:39 PM
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/102930776/james-harden-nba-mvp-houston-rockets

I'm on board with Harden as a strong MVP candidate. Absolutely. I'd have Curry (really no homer, he's just the rightful #1 in the early going), but Harden/Gasol/AD are right behind with Lowry following suit.

ichitownclowni
12-04-2014, 01:53 PM
Curry

koreancabbage
12-04-2014, 02:26 PM
Lowry has to be in the top 5 now

Chronz
12-04-2014, 03:12 PM
Curry and Harden are in a tier above everyone else, they have the numbers, the story, the winning and the demonstrative impact (aka replacement value) for their respective teams.

After that it comes down to a select few. Lowry, CP3, AD and Gasol. Really shows the demise of the swings this year.

Chronz
12-04-2014, 03:14 PM
I'm on board with Harden as a strong MVP candidate. Absolutely. I'd have Curry (really no homer, he's just the rightful #1 in the early going), but Harden/Gasol/AD are right behind with Lowry following suit.

Peep CP3's historical efficiency. No way he sustains it tho. 135 for a guy who creates his own, handles the ball and creates for everyone else more than anyone else. But its been a beauty to watch. After a slow start hes really stepped it up and is shooting the ball better than I've ever seen. His turnover rate is incomprehensibly low. I dont think I've ever seen him play better. Which is shocking considering how lil faith he had in his jumper to start the season.

Sactown
12-04-2014, 03:27 PM
Curry and Harden are in a tier above everyone else, they have the numbers, the story, the winning and the demonstrative impact (aka replacement value) for their respective teams.

After that it comes down to a select few. Lowry, CP3, AD and Gasol. Really shows the demise of the swings this year.

How Is Harden on a tier of essentially his own? Is strength of schedule not in consideration? His inefficiency outside of his FT shooting?

How is he in consideration over Gasol? Lowry? And AD? Who are all significantly better on one side of the court?

Chronz
12-04-2014, 03:44 PM
How Is Harden on a tier of essentially his own? Is strength of schedule not in consideration? His inefficiency outside of his FT shooting?
I figured the strength of schedule was mitigated by the team being down 3 starters and how abysmal the team looks when hes not out there. Not seeing why we would ignore his free throw shooting tho. Contrary to popular belief, those free throws still count as points and hes been an overall efficient offensive force.


How is he in consideration over Gasol? Lowry? And AD? Who are all significantly better on one side of the court?
AD for lack of winning. The rest are either less productive overall or lacking the narrative. Gasol should probably be in that tier tho. Lowry if he keeps winning without DD will get the narrative boost as well.

Personally, I would disregard narrative altogether but that makes the list trickier.


Whats your ranking look like?

Sactown
12-04-2014, 03:53 PM
I figured the strength of schedule was mitigated by the team being down 3 starters and how abysmal the team looks when hes not out there. Not seeing why we would ignore his free throw shooting tho. Contrary to popular belief, those free throws still count as points and hes been an overall efficient offensive force.


AD for lack of winning. The rest are either less productive overall or lacking the narrative. Gasol should probably be in that tier tho. AD if he keeps winning without DD will get the narrative boost as well.

Personally, I would disregard narrative altogether but that makes the list trickier.


Whats your ranking look like?
His efficiency is almost a career low, he has turnover problems and his SOS is so bad outside of the win in Memphis it shouldn't matter who else is on the court.. and outside of his FT shooting should be a concern? His defense while improved isn't great and perimeter defense is more of a luxery than commodity while defense from bigs is at an all time high?

Personally

Gasol
Curry

Lowry

Davis
Cousins

After this I think Harden is mixed in with
Wall
Aldridge
LeBron
Klay
Butler range

Verbal Christ
12-04-2014, 03:59 PM
His efficiency is almost a career low, he has turnover problems and his SOS is so bad outside of the win in Memphis it shouldn't matter who else is on the court.. and outside of his FT shooting should be a concern? His defense while improved isn't great and perimeter defense is more of a luxery than commodity while defense from bigs is at an all time high?

Personally

Gasol
Curry

Lowry

Davis
Cousins

After this I think Harden is mixed in with
Wall
Aldridge
LeBron
Klay
Butler range

Thats funny

Sactown
12-04-2014, 04:01 PM
Thats funny

How so?

Chronz
12-04-2014, 04:01 PM
His efficiency is almost a career low,
Thats not really saying much considering how efficient hes always been. Hes still mega efficient. In fact, his O-RTG is exactly the same as it was in Y1 with Houston. Only now hes supplementing it with actual defensive effort. This is truly the best hes ever played IMO.


he has turnover problems
Turnovers are already accounted for in the efficiency scale mentioned above.


and his SOS is so bad outside of the win in Memphis it shouldn't matter who else is on the court.
Would love to see how you came to this conclusion.


and outside of his FT shooting should be a concern?
Not to me, if anything I think its a great sign moving forward. His set shooting is bound to recover and he should rely less on step back 3's once Dwight gets back. But thats what great players do, when one aspect of their game is lagging, they find other ways to contribute.


His defense while improved isn't great and perimeter defense is more of a luxery than commodity while defense from bigs is at an all time high?

Personally

Gasol
Curry

Lowry

Davis
Cousins

After this I think Harden is mixed in with
Wall
Aldridge
LeBron
Klay
Butler range
I cant help but feel like you MASSIVELY underrate Harden. None of those players have the same combination of strengths I mentioned above.

cdnsportsfan
12-04-2014, 04:05 PM
It should be Anthony Davis this year, I've always hated the idea that you can't win the MVP if you're not on one of the top teams. If AD even comes close to keeping up what he's done so far it should be his award, hands down! The way things are going right though now it'll likely be either Curry or Marc Gasol, and either of them would be great choices the way they're playing right now.

Others should get mentioned and probably will enter the discussion but my money is on one of those three right now. Though it is still very early.

Sactown
12-04-2014, 04:06 PM
Thats not really saying much considering how efficient hes always been. Hes still mega efficient. In fact, his O-RTG is exactly the same as it was in Y1 with Houston. Only now hes supplementing it with actual defensive effort. This is truly the best hes ever played IMO.


Turnovers for are accounted for in the efficiency scale.


Would love to see how you came to this conclusion.


Not to me, if anything I think its a great sign moving forward. His set shooting is bound to recover and he should rely less on step back 3's once Dwight gets back. But thats what great players do, when one aspect of their game is lagging, they find other ways to contribute.


I cant help but feel like you MASSIVELY underrate Harden. None of those players have the same combination of strengths I mentioned above.

Maybe? Isn't Houston a top 5 defensive unit? I don't think Harden anchors that? Isn't there offense in the bbottom half of the league? Not that it's complete his doing. His TS% is lower than all but his rookie year. His TOV is a career high but so is his AST% he's had injuries on his roster but so has

Butler and DMC (Kings 8-1 with starters with one of toughest SOS in league almost all on road)

He bring up record but Portland is tied Memphis GS Toronto are all better and Wash is close .. I don't think what he's done is overwhelming

If he continues winning with a decent SOS clearly I'll have him easily in the top 3 but he isn't statistically dominant and I think he's luckily had this schedule through his shooting draught

Sactown
12-04-2014, 04:18 PM
Escentially my argument is

Where he hangs his hat on is his efficiency, and this season he isn't that efficient compared to the other scorers with 300 or more points (believe outside of top 10)

Record is inflated by SOS and on a team that hangs it a hat on the defensive end more so than offensively and he isn't the reason for that

Point differencial is 7th in the west with such an easy schedule isn't exciting to see aren't blowing out the team's they should


Not sure how I'm being irrational

rhino17
12-04-2014, 04:21 PM
Gotta be between Steph and Harden right now

Verbal Christ
12-04-2014, 04:32 PM
How so?

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/102930776/james-harden-nba-mvp-houston-rockets

Sactown
12-04-2014, 04:37 PM
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/102930776/james-harden-nba-mvp-houston-rockets

Give me a summary , read quite a bit didn't see them acknowledge his poor schedule playing Philly and I think La? Twice, Knicks Twolves and multiple others while still having only the 7th best point diff in west, I already awknowledged his ability to get to the line and their record. Also they didn't acknowledge that they're a top 5 defense

Chronz
12-04-2014, 04:52 PM
It should be Anthony Davis this year, I've always hated the idea that you can't win the MVP if you're not on one of the top teams. If AD even comes close to keeping up what he's done so far it should be his award, hands down! The way things are going right though now it'll likely be either Curry or Marc Gasol, and either of them would be great choices the way they're playing right now.

Others should get mentioned and probably will enter the discussion but my money is on one of those three right now. Though it is still very early.

Yeah, the greatest statistical season in NBA History would warrant a special case for MVP.

Chronz
12-04-2014, 05:06 PM
Maybe? Isn't Houston a top 5 defensive unit? I don't think Harden anchors that? Isn't there offense in the bbottom half of the league? Not that it's complete his doing. His TS% is lower than all but his rookie year. His TOV is a career high but so is his AST% he's had injuries on his roster but so has
Hes won them games with his defense already, has put forth more effort so hes definitely contributing to that ranking. And you're right about their offense, but thats because of their performance in the 200+ minutes that Harden has sat. Their offense shrivels when hes not out there, isnt part of the MVP equation about the value a specific player has to his team? When Harden is on the floor the Rockets have a top 8 offense (vs league average), when hes not out there, it drops to a Philly type level. I dont see the point in counting that ranking as anything but a strength in Harden's campaign. Hes no Curry, but you definitely undersell his efficiency. Again, his ORTG is exactly the same as it was in Y1 as the man, only hes shouldering more of the defensive load. Thats why there isn't a single barometer (no matter where you stand on the efficiency/usage scale) that paints this as anything other than a banner year for him.



Butler and DMC (Kings 8-1 with starters with one of toughest SOS in league almost all on road)
Im not seeing how this is more impressive than what Harden has been doing. SOS isn't really as relevant as team efficiency IMO. I know SRS agrees, and I remember an article that showed blowing out inferior competition is actually more indicative of championship teams than gutting out wins vs better comp. Obviously theres a sliding scale, but my point is that it still tips in Houston's favor.


He bring up record but Portland is tied Memphis GS Toronto are all better and Wash is close .. I don't think what he's done is overwhelming
Its not just about team record tho, its about an individuals contribution to that record, relative to his comp.


If he continues winning with a decent SOS clearly I'll have him easily in the top 3 but he isn't statistically dominant and I think he's luckily had this schedule through his shooting draught
I guess that depends on your personal stance on a few stats but who exactly qualifies as statistically dominant here?

Chronz
12-04-2014, 05:07 PM
Gotta be between Steph and Harden right now

Its clearly Steph.

Harden isn't far behind but when is the cavalry coming back?

Chronz
12-04-2014, 05:16 PM
Escentially my argument is

Where he hangs his hat on is his efficiency, and this season he isn't that efficient compared to the other scorers with 300 or more points (believe outside of top 10)

Record is inflated by SOS and on a team that hangs it a hat on the defensive end more so than offensively and he isn't the reason for that

Point differencial is 7th in the west with such an easy schedule isn't exciting to see aren't blowing out the team's they should


Not sure how I'm being irrational

You're not. Its just that some people disagree on the impact of not having 3 starters playing has on that SOS differential. For as little competition as you feel he has faced, I honestly dont think Houston is talented enough to be winning all these games. They would obviously be losing to the likes of LA, GS, Memphis on the regular if they were scheduled but you can only play the teams that are in front of you and Houston has overachieved, that is most definitely due to Harden+Ariza. Dorsey had a great game last night but hes been awful. You can point to Portland, but between LMA and Lillard, its hard to see whos the MVP of the team.

Memphis and Gasol are a great choice but the Mavericks and Spurs being ahead of Houston is mostly due to a collective effort more than a single MVP. That just leaves the Clips as the only other team playing at a higher level and as much as I would love CP3 to be up there, especially with his historic efficiency, I still think Harden has done more with less. Wont disagree with CP3 tho.

Sactown
12-04-2014, 05:38 PM
You're not. Its just that some people disagree on the impact of not having 3 starters playing has on that SOS differential. For as little competition as you feel he has faced, I honestly dont think Houston is talented enough to be winning all these games. They would obviously be losing to the likes of LA, GS, Memphis on the regular if they were scheduled but you can only play the teams that are in front of you and Houston has overachieved, that is most definitely due to Harden+Ariza. Dorsey had a great game last night but hes been awful. You can point to Portland, but between LMA and Lillard, its hard to see whos the MVP of the team.

Memphis and Gasol are a great choice but the Mavericks and Spurs being ahead of Houston is mostly due to a collective effort more than a single MVP. That just leaves the Clips as the only other team playing at a higher level and as much as I would love CP3 to be up there, especially with his historic efficiency, I still think Harden has done more with less. Wont disagree with CP3 tho.
I do agree with a lot of what you said but what wins stick out for Houston? I see two Dallas and Memphis, other than that I don't see the hype in there wins when they've been anchored by a solid defense ..

I didn't have a player from Portland or the spurs in ahead of him just said he was in that range I have him at 6 NBA has him 5 and you at 2 with how young the season is I dint think that's to huge of a gap

Verbal Christ
12-04-2014, 09:51 PM
I dont understand how you can bang the drum and quantify SOS and then turn the blind eye to the fact that the team is without most of the + rotation players. Algorithms such as HOllingers rankings make that same mistake when they run those simulations this early in the season. Not enough data. Add to that the team is without 2 of the 3 best defenders on the team and yet the team is a 'solid defense'. What to make of that?

Collective effort of what exaclty? The team has Euro league players, rookies, 20 year players. Most argued that the Rockets became a weaker team in the offseason. Overachieving? Okay. What is the catalyst?

No offense I just think that arguing SOS and a defensive effort to discredit Harden is lazy. The numbers dont suggest anything that you are saying. Harden is passing the eye test, and the data just vindicates it. I just wonder where the other teams would be if their candidate was the sole offensive player other teams schemed for? We are talking Most Valuable Player and not MOst Improved Player right?

Sean Moore
12-04-2014, 10:22 PM
I'm taking Curry at this point. Take him off Golden State and there would be a huge drop off. Not to mention he is playing the best ball in the league other than Anthony Davis. Pretty close between Gasol, Lowry, and Harden too though. I'm going with Curry though.

lol, please
12-05-2014, 02:21 AM
Way too early for this, long way to go in the season, but with a gun to my head, Curry and it's not close to close.

lol, please
12-05-2014, 02:23 AM
I'm taking Curry at this point. Take him off Golden State and there would be a huge drop off. Not to mention he is playing the best ball in the league other than Anthony Davis. Pretty close between Gasol, Lowry, and Harden too though. I'm going with Curry though.
I disagree with this. Klay and DLee The White Chris Webber can carry this team.

Ariza's Better
12-05-2014, 02:34 AM
Still going with Anthony Davis. He is playing sooo good and there is no player more important to their team right now than Davis to the Pelicans. I also think that it's unfair to hold the Pelicans record against, he can only do so much.

Chronz
12-05-2014, 03:05 AM
I disagree with this. Klay and DLee The White Chris Webber can carry this team.

It hasnt happened tho. Curry is averaging a career worst from 3p%, but its entirely a result of how much attention he draws. Without him, for some reason all those lineups cease scoring at an effective rate.

tredigs
12-05-2014, 04:28 AM
It hasnt happened tho. Curry is averaging a career worst from 3p%, but its entirely a result of how much attention he draws. Without him, for some reason all those lineups cease scoring at an effective rate.
I have about 47 snap shots of 3+ defenses on Curry that change what we know about gravity D. There's no more important player to his team in the NBA than Steph Curry. Period.

Chavacano
12-05-2014, 05:22 AM
So far, so Curry.

Sean Moore
12-05-2014, 05:55 AM
I disagree with this. Klay and DLee The White Chris Webber can carry this team.

You're joking right. I seriously can't tell.

Sean Moore
12-05-2014, 05:57 AM
It hasnt happened tho. Curry is averaging a career worst from 3p%, but its entirely a result of how much attention he draws. Without him, for some reason all those lineups cease scoring at an effective rate.

Curry literally makes that team go.

Verbal Christ
12-12-2014, 12:20 PM
James Edward Harden Jr. is pulling away from the pack.

tredigs
12-12-2014, 12:39 PM
James Edward Harden Jr. is pulling away from the pack.

No. But, he's right up at the top. From contenders I'd take Curry and CP3's season over his right now.

Verbal Christ
12-12-2014, 12:46 PM
Duh, silly me i forgot the ROX werent contenders LOL

tredigs
12-12-2014, 12:50 PM
Duh, silly me i forgot the ROX werent contenders LOL

Lay off the paranoid homerism big guy. I am including them. Basically I am ruling out AD/Cousins.

Verbal Christ
12-12-2014, 12:55 PM
Noooo way people using selective homerism to make their points on PSD? Never!!

I mean you never fall victim to being a homer right? So dang objective you are, how do you do it? LOL

tredigs
12-12-2014, 12:58 PM
Noooo way people using selective homerism to make their points on PSD? Never!!

I mean you never fall victim to being a homer right? So dang objective you are, how do you do it? LOL

Are you on drugs? Calm down. I'm just informing you that I'm including Harden. Never insinuated otherwise.

tredigs
12-12-2014, 06:36 PM
To continue the homer talk and because I'm sick as hell and just posting here and betting games all week, Curry's current case with Harden at the quarter+ mark:

Curry = 23/5/8 + 2 steals on 49/40/93 in just 32.9 mpg (not being limited, just a lot of blowouts). #5 in assists and #6 in PPG (#1 for PG's)

Harden = 26/6/7 + 2 steals on 42/34/89 in 37.5 mpg. #1 in PPG and #11 in assists.

Curry TS% = 63% (#8 in the NBA and only one in the top 10 scoring >15 ppg).
Harden TS% = 58%

Curry PER = 26.9 (#3 NBA. AD+Cousins >)
Harden PER = 25.4 (#6)

Curry and Harden Value-Over-Replacement-Player (VORP) = 7.7 (T-#1 NBA)

Curry Box +/- = 9.2 (#1 NBA. On pace for 10th best since 1990)
Harden Box +/- = 7.9 (#2 NBA)

Curry WS/48 = .293 (#3 NBA. AD+CP3 >)
Harden WS/48 = .258 (#5 NBA)

Curry RPM = 7.42 (#1 NBA)
Harden RPM = 6.25 (#6 NBA)

Rockets record = 17-5 (#4 Western Conference)
Warriors record = 19-2 (#1 NBA. T-4th best start in NBA history)

My top 5:

1: Curry
2 A/B/C: CP3 / Harden / M. Gasol
5: Anthony Davis

nastynice
12-12-2014, 11:11 PM
I think Harden's got a legitimate case right now. Man, that guy's offensive game is SICK! Seriously impressed with his versatility as a scorer, and they run SO MUCH of the offense through him, its crazy. The man can put the team on his shoulders and carry them to victories.

I like Curry too, he's getting much better as a passer. He has a huge effect being on the court that may not always show up in the box score.

I don't know tho, I think Harden may have the edge as of right now, just cuz amount of responsibility seems to be more for him with Dwight out. Curry may enter that zone too tho pretty soon, depending on how long Bogut is out.

*Haven't seen CP3, is he really playing that good? Its crazy what these 3 teams are doing, Warriors, Clippers, Rockets, slowly been climbing into the contender category, and this year (maybe last year for the Clippers) all are really starting to take that step into the top tier with the Spurs. Gotta give it up to all 3 FO's, each built from the ground up

tredigs
12-12-2014, 11:38 PM
^Yeah, CP3 is playing that good. He's still a cheat code and having arguably the most efficient season of his career. Not sure why you'd say "maybe last year" for LAC? They have him and Blake signed for the next 3 seasons I think, and CP3 is only 29. That's prime for a point. EG Nash's MVP's were ages 30/31, with his best season arguably being 32.

nastynice
12-12-2014, 11:59 PM
^Yeah, CP3 is playing that good. He's still a cheat code and having arguably the most efficient season of his career. Not sure why you'd say "maybe last year" for LAC? They have him and Blake signed for the next 3 seasons I think, and CP3 is only 29. That's prime for a point. EG Nash's MVP's were ages 30/31, with his best season arguably being 32.

na, what I meant is that these 3 teams slowly made their way into the middle of the pack of contenders in the West over the past few years. But now, these teams are starting to separate from the middle of that pack and slowly rising toward the top of that pack. But the Clippers started to make that jump last year, they were already starting to rise toward the top of the pack last year 2013-2014 season

tredigs
12-13-2014, 12:07 AM
na, what I meant is that these 3 teams slowly made their way into the middle of the pack of contenders in the West over the past few years. But now, these teams are starting to separate from the middle of that pack and slowly rising toward the top of that pack. But the Clippers started to make that jump last year, they were already starting to rise toward the top of the pack last year 2013-2014 season

Gotchya. I don't know, though. Portland and Memphis and Dallas? Could argue they're better than every team in the East. Conference is filthy.

nastynice
12-13-2014, 12:23 AM
Gotchya. I don't know, though. Portland and Memphis and Dallas? Could argue they're better than every team in the East. Conference is filthy.

yea, for sure. Don't get me wrong, as a middle of the pack contender in the West, I LIKED our chances last year. Any middle of the pack contender out west is capable of going all the way, cuz that's just how stacked it is. I'm def not sleeping on any of those teams you mentioned. First round in the west is like ECF, lol

LA_Raiders
12-13-2014, 01:37 AM
Curry, he is paying great and the team is the best in the league.

alexander_37
12-13-2014, 11:44 PM
Harden with the triple double.

rockets-fan
12-14-2014, 12:41 AM
Curry has to be the favorite right now, dudes ballon and leading the best record in the league.

Hardwn after him, what he's done has been impressive

Goose17
12-14-2014, 03:43 AM
I know one thing for sure. The only legit contenders are in the West.

Although Lebron might win it by default.

Verbal Christ
12-14-2014, 05:30 PM
Steph has had help all year. IMO Kerr has done more for the Dubs than Steph. GS is the best TEAM in the league so far no doubt.

Harden has had no help most of the year. He's doing it all with a bunch of no names.

Having Howard back was nice, relieves some of the load from Harden, he can look to distribute more and boom, triple double.

Goose17
12-14-2014, 06:06 PM
Steph has had help all year. IMO Kerr has done more for the Dubs than Steph. GS is the best TEAM in the league so far no doubt.

Harden has had no help most of the year. He's doing it all with a bunch of no names.

Having Howard back was nice, relieves some of the load from Harden, he can look to distribute more and boom, triple double.

Yeah because former MVPs had no help, Durant, Lebron, Rose, Nash, Kobe, Duncan, Jordan, Shaq, Dirk. They all did it by themselves.

Fact of the matter is, Houston need to finish in the top 2/3 for Harden to get MVP. There hasn't been an MVP winner who's team was outside the top 3 in their conference for a very long time.

Verbal Christ
12-17-2014, 08:41 PM
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/2014/12/15/15-footer-james-harden-beats-mvp-drum/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter



Twenty five percent of the season is gone, #NBABallot has begun once again, and the calender is about to flip over to 2015. In just 10 days, jolly St. Nick will come down the chimney with toys for all the good little boys and girls that just distract from the wonderful slate of NBA games on December 25.

While the early season starts from some surprising MVP candidates have succumbed to gravity and slowly began to descend back to Earth, one young guard has come from the South to the forefront of the MVP conversation. The Houston Rockets are 18-5, have the second-best defense in the league, have survived without Dwight Howard, and James Harden is playing out of his mind right now.

In his sixth season, the 25-year-old shooting guard from Arizona State is leading the league in scoring, and is putting up numbers that only two players have reached in history.

zn23
12-17-2014, 08:51 PM
Steph Curry so far. But if OKC continues to play at this level then Westbrook will get the award cause he's ballin'.

MTar786
12-17-2014, 10:34 PM
im going with westbrook. steph right now just because of the games played. but i feel westbrook is performing better than anyone in the league

nastynice
12-17-2014, 11:04 PM
I can't see Curry being MVP as of right now. Way too streaky, and altho he's made improvements, he's still telegraphing too many passes. I think Harden's playing better than him

papipapsmanny
12-18-2014, 12:39 AM
I'll probably get **** for this but John Wall is somewhat of a dark horse year, especially if he keeps playing like he has been the last 2-3 weeks. He is really starting to put it all together

JasonJohnHorn
12-18-2014, 02:53 AM
I'd like to say Anthony Davis, and there is a case for him, and I think he is having the best individual season when you look at both ends of the court.

That said, if I had to vote, I'd have to go with Curry at this point because his game is translating to wins. The most wins. And without any additional talent added to the roster (actually, with losses to the roster).

Harden deserves mention with how well Houston is playing given their injuries, and Marc Gasol deserves votes.

I do like that Lowry was mentioned by the OP, and Wall is equally deserving of mention in that respect, however I don't think either is playing as well as Curry, and neither team is doing as well as Golden State.... and if either of those rosters were playing in the West, I think they would be below .500


So.. Curry gets my first place vote. Davis gets my second. Followed by Harden and Gasol (though maybe not in that order) and I'll allow myself a homer pick this early in the season and go with Lowry for fifth place, though I expect given how well OKC is playing that KD AND Westy will be in the conversation come new year.

Sean Moore
12-18-2014, 02:56 AM
Steph Curry so far. But if OKC continues to play at this level then Westbrook will get the award cause he's ballin'.

Anything is possible as it's still pretty early. Though the award is Curry's to lose at this point. It would take a lot for Westbrook to narrow that gap.

ILLUSIONIST^248
12-18-2014, 03:04 AM
Curry in a landslide

ClutchTime
12-18-2014, 08:37 AM
Harden

M.I.A.
12-18-2014, 08:43 AM
Pick a Hawk. Any Hawk.

JOSETHEALLSTAR
12-18-2014, 09:23 AM
James harden for mvp.

cdnsportsfan
12-18-2014, 09:50 AM
Davis should win it, regardless of where his team falls. Curry is the only other choice to me. There will be others nominated but right now it's down to those two, with AD well in the lead.

Sactown
12-18-2014, 03:29 PM
Curry, Gasol, Harden, Westbrook if he continues to go nuts and they get 50 wins

alexander_37
12-22-2014, 11:02 PM
Harden with 42/7AST/5STL/1TO in 3 quarters

cgreenhill
12-23-2014, 04:56 PM
Curry, Gasol, Harden, Westbrook if he continues to go nuts and they get 50 wins

Which ever of those players wins the most games this season. All of those guys are deserving of it.

RLundi
12-23-2014, 04:57 PM
Harden I guess. Or Curry.

Tony_Starks
12-23-2014, 05:01 PM
Steph... Easy!

InRoseWeTrust
12-23-2014, 05:08 PM
Steph without question

Shammyguy3
12-23-2014, 05:12 PM
Where does everyone rank Jimmy Butler at this point? I think he's definitely in the top-10, wondering how high others go with it

andy2518
12-23-2014, 05:15 PM
Harden I guess. Or Curry.

Don't know how you could possibly make an argument for Harden over Curry or that it's remotely close at this point. It's pretty much a no brainer that Curry is the league MVP at this point.

andy2518
12-23-2014, 05:19 PM
Where does everyone rank Jimmy Butler at this point? I think he's definitely in the top-10, wondering how high others go with it

Top ten or top fifteen for sure. Haven't really took the time to make an official ranking or anything. Dude has been ballin.

abe_froman
12-23-2014, 05:21 PM
Where does everyone rank Jimmy Butler at this point? I think he's definitely in the top-10, wondering how high others go with it
somewhere between 5-10 probably? a guy who is just on the outside looking in.he will get some votes,but no a serious challenger for it

SteelerKing
12-23-2014, 05:27 PM
Steph Curry for now although I think if Anthony Davis was on a better team, he'd deserve it in a landslide. Just a couple of weeks ago he was something ridiculous like 3rd in scoring, top 10 in rebounds, 1st in blocks, and 1st in steals -- as a PF. That kid is my new favorite player in the NBA. Seeing him at the top of the steals leader column was jaw dropping.

tredigs
12-23-2014, 05:46 PM
Those D stats for AD haven't translated though. He's got a great defensive anchor in Asik alongside him, but yet their team D is among the worst in the NBA. AD's a juggernaut without a doubt, but even on a personal level I'm not sure he has a resounding case as the top player this year over Curry/Harden and when he accrues enough games - Westbrook. Durant will probably join that list in a few weeks himself. Incredible PER, but most of his other advanced stats aren't above those guys, and where they are not significantly.

SteelerKing
12-23-2014, 06:02 PM
I think at the time he had the highest PER in NBA history as well as being #1 in blocks and steals, 3rd in scoring, he really did have a resounding case aside from not being on a better team. Granted it was still fairly early in the season, but I don't think I've ever seen someone leading the league in both blocks and steals while being near the top in scoring. It's hard to argue against that kind of dominance on both ends of the court plus the ridiculous PER.

tredigs
12-23-2014, 06:12 PM
I think at the time he had the highest PER in NBA history as well as being #1 in blocks and steals, 3rd in scoring, he really did have a resounding case aside from not being on a better team. Granted it was still fairly early in the season, but I don't think I've ever seen someone leading the league in both blocks and steals while being near the top in scoring. It's hard to argue against that kind of dominance on both ends of the court plus the ridiculous PER.
D. Rob and Hakeem used to sometimes average more points/rebounds/assists/blocks/steals in the same season than AD's at.

ILLUSIONIST^248
12-23-2014, 07:41 PM
Curry in a landslide

M.I.A.
12-23-2014, 09:55 PM
I nominate Mr. Al Horford. Thank you.

ewing
12-23-2014, 11:42 PM
Curry in a landslide

Eddie Curry?

Shammyguy3
12-23-2014, 11:44 PM
JamesOn Curry

CluTcH_c1tY
12-24-2014, 12:12 AM
Harden without a doubt.

Verbal Christ
01-02-2015, 02:45 PM
James Edward Harden Jr

Still pulling away

RLundi
01-02-2015, 03:30 PM
Don't know how you could possibly make an argument for Harden over Curry or that it's remotely close at this point. It's pretty much a no brainer that Curry is the league MVP at this point.

Nope, I disagreed then, I disagree now, and I'll probably disagree at the end of the season.

Tony_Starks
01-02-2015, 03:32 PM
Steph Curry now, maybe Westbrook later.....

tredigs
01-02-2015, 03:49 PM
Steph Curry now, maybe Westbrook later.....

At the bear minimum you gotta be the best on your team, which should be Durant later. Beasting, though.

He'll get some top 5 votes if they get higher than the 7 seed.

jerellh528
01-02-2015, 03:53 PM
You gotta go with curry right now, I can't do Durant or Westbrook even if they get the 7th seed or higher, with the way Westbrook is playing this season, I'm not for voting an mvp when there are two mvp caliber players on one team.

Htownballa1622
01-02-2015, 04:42 PM
Harden. No homer either.

Dude is averaging 28/6/7/2/1.

His percentages are rising.
First in ws. 2nd by. 001 ws per 48.
First in vorp.

He's almost back to .600 ts%

Dude is killing it but some don't wanna hear it. Sorry guys it's true.

DaBUU
01-02-2015, 04:47 PM
1. Harden
2. Curry
3. Jimmy

tredigs
01-02-2015, 04:54 PM
Harden. No homer either.

Dude is averaging 28/6/7/2/1.

His percentages are rising.
First in ws. 2nd by. 001 ws per 48.
First in vorp.

He's almost back to .600 ts%

Dude is killing it but some don't wanna hear it. Sorry guys it's true.

I'd use my homer card on Curry, but Harden is a reasonable choice for sure. Part of the extra advantage in counting stats/WinShares/VORP is because he's got 4+ minutes a game on Curry (he's been sitting a lot of 4th Q's with games already over), but they're still impressive.

Now with SportsVU and having the ability to track player movement at a high level, it's statistical fact that no player commands anywhere close to the attention Curry does, and it's a huge reason for their success. Not a big surprise that he was #1 in the NBA in total +/- last season, and back at it again this year. 23/5/8 with a 62% TS and leading the league in steals in 33 mpg is just filthy. Top 10 in the NBA in PPG/APG/SPG, PER, WinsProduced, WinShares, VORP, Defensive Rating, TS%, etc. #1 in WAR, RPM, Total +/- and 'Gravity'. #1 record in the NBA. Monster.

wizardsfan3
01-02-2015, 04:59 PM
1. Harden
2. Curry
3. Jimmy

You can't be serious about Jimmy Butler at #3...

Verbal Christ
01-02-2015, 06:01 PM
https://twitter.com/dmorey/status/550388303602532352

tredigs
01-02-2015, 06:27 PM
https://twitter.com/dmorey/status/550388303602532352

Haha, I see Morey likes playing that game too. Here's Curry's version I just did:

# of players who averaged > 23/5/7.5 with a >60% TS = ...

Wilt (1x)
Jordan (1x)
Lebron (1x)
Magic (1x)
Bird (1x)
and Curry (2x)

Other than Curry's season this year so far, they all fell in the >36-45 mpg range.


Looks like the bookmakers have Curry as the favorite, followed by AD and Harden.

Verbal Christ
01-02-2015, 06:33 PM
Haha, I see Morey likes playing that game too. Here's Curry's version I just did:

# of players who averaged > 23/5/7.5 with a >60% TS = ...

Wilt (1x)
Jordan (1x)
Lebron (1x)
Magic (1x)
Bird (1x)
and Curry (2x)

Other than Curry's season this year so far, they all fell in the >36-45 mpg range.


Looks like the bookmakers have Curry as the favorite, followed by AD and Harden.

LOL, thats cute!

tredigs
01-02-2015, 06:37 PM
Haha - and one for Draymond Green.

# of players who have averaged => 8 RPG, 3 APG, 1.5 SPG + 1.5 BPG and >1 made 3 a game?

Just Dray.

In reality though, I would have Green easily as top 3 in DPOY voting.


LOL, thats cute!
What'd you find funny?

Verbal Christ
01-02-2015, 09:40 PM
Okay, my turn. Again based in present day reality.

Points + Assists + Rebounds

Harden 40.7
Lebron 38.1
AD 36.4
Curry 35.5
LaMarcus 35.4

GamerFTW
01-03-2015, 11:05 AM
Okay, my turn. Again based in present day reality.

Points + Assists + Rebounds

Harden 40.7
Lebron 38.1
AD 36.4
Curry 35.5
LaMarcus 35.4

I am interested to see your explanation on why what you just put up there is a valid measurement of the players being discussed here.

tredigs
01-03-2015, 02:27 PM
Okay, my turn. Again based in present day reality.

Points + Assists + Rebounds

Harden 40.7
Lebron 38.1
AD 36.4
Curry 35.5
LaMarcus 35.4

I love the irony of that comment.

Monster game from Curry against the best of the East last night.

Womp womp womp in a blowout loss from Harden.

Htownballa1622
01-03-2015, 06:26 PM
I'd use my homer card on Curry, but Harden is a reasonable choice for sure. Part of the extra advantage in counting stats/WinShares/VORP is because he's got 4+ minutes a game on Curry (he's been sitting a lot of 4th Q's with games already over), but they're still impressive.

Now with SportsVU and having the ability to track player movement at a high level, it's statistical fact that no player commands anywhere close to the attention Curry does, and it's a huge reason for their success. Not a big surprise that he was #1 in the NBA in total +/- last season, and back at it again this year. 23/5/8 with a 62% TS and leading the league in steals in 33 mpg is just filthy. Top 10 in the NBA in PPG/APG/SPG, PER, WinsProduced, WinShares, VORP, Defensive Rating, TS%, etc. #1 in WAR, RPM, Total +/- and 'Gravity'. #1 record in the NBA. Monster.

No doubt Curry is having a great year and he's up there too in mvp ranks.

That extra four minutes is in fact because our games haven't been blowouts and we've needed him more while gsw is blowing fools out.

Whatever the case, that's why I think Harden is mvp because I think he's that valuable to the rockets. We haven't played well lately but he's kept us in games despite numerous injuries.

Curry while playing at an equal or greater level has had help on your superior (at the moment ) team.

That's why I would give the edge to Harden. It's all so subjective though.

Is mvp most valuable to one's team? Best player? Best numbers? Best narrative? That's just how it goes. I have no problem with you thinking Curry is mvp.

I just know that Harden will need to keep this up or hope to get help, if not we're another 1st round loss. And ultimately I'd rather win big in playoffs and click at the right time than James be mvp.

JordansBulls
01-03-2015, 09:08 PM
1. Harden
2. Curry
3. Jimmy

Curry is ahead of Harden

bucketss
01-03-2015, 09:23 PM
1.harden
2. curry
3. lowry <3

Seizabmc
01-04-2015, 11:15 PM
Curry
Marc
Lowery
Paul Milsap
Lilard /LMA

Seizabmc
01-04-2015, 11:16 PM
If wins don't matter that I would say anthony Davis.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-04-2015, 11:22 PM
It's easily Curry ATM.

Shlumpledink
01-05-2015, 05:24 AM
Give me the two way players over the stat stuffers. I take Anthony Davis. It is Curry's award right now if the voting trend continues

Jeffy25
01-05-2015, 09:55 AM
I'd still take Anthony Davis as my vote today.

Harden, Westbrook, and others are all behind him as of right now.

Jeffy25
01-05-2015, 09:57 AM
Okay, my turn. Again based in present day reality.

Points + Assists + Rebounds

Harden 40.7
Lebron 38.1
AD 36.4
Curry 35.5
LaMarcus 35.4

Points + Assists + Rebounds is always going to favor the guy leading in points, always.

valade16
01-05-2015, 12:14 PM
I'd still take Anthony Davis as my vote today.

Harden, Westbrook, and others are all behind him as of right now.

His advanced stats have started to come down.

Now in a virtual 3-way tie for PER and his WS/48 has dropped below KD and is virtually the same as Curry and Harden.

What he is doing statistically is still mindblowingly efficient for being so young but he is not longer on record pace. He won't win an MVP until he gets NO to the playoffs, fair or not.