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FriedTofuz
11-21-2014, 11:52 PM
The knicks are adjusting to a new system and are down two of their rotation players. However, shump has greatly improved and melo is still a top player in this league. why are they doing so poorly?

bucketss
11-22-2014, 12:09 AM
combination of injures, and not having much talent outside of melo.

KnicksorBust
11-22-2014, 12:51 AM
Knicks forum. This has already been discussed ad nausium there.

Crackadalic
11-22-2014, 01:00 AM
Why are the cavs struggling when they have 3 all stars
Why are the Hornets struggling when they have pretty much the same team with Lance added
Why is Brooklyn 5-7 when they are pretty much healthy

Teams struggle when they have new systems implemented and new players added

It doesn't help that our starting pg is out, our 3rd stringer is starting, Melo knee injury since game 2, our rookie out for a month, Jr suspended for a game, Iman missing two games and Bargs(as much as i dislike the guy) is out as well

On Top of a huge learning curve from Our rookie coach I can't say I'm that surprise we are 3-10 even though I expected slightly under 500

Plus our defense is just that bad

Raps18-19 Champ
11-22-2014, 01:20 AM
Bargnani and Calderon are injured.

ewing
11-22-2014, 02:29 AM
missing Calderon hurts. I also think that the offensive they are introducing does against the grain in the NBA. It isn't all about maximizing spacing and finding shots quickly. they also lost a lot of very close games early. recently they haven't control tempo as much and the results have not been good. guys don't look happy the last couple games.

meloman1592
11-22-2014, 02:56 AM
They just suck honestly

DoMeFavors
11-22-2014, 02:56 AM
Their C is Dalembert and they start Quincy Acy. If you start them you likely wont be a playoff team.

abe_froman
11-22-2014, 03:03 AM
have you seen their roster? how can you be blindsided by this

Crackadalic
11-22-2014, 03:03 AM
Their C is Dalembert and they start Quincy Acy. If you start them you likely wont be a playoff team.

I actually agree? wtf

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-22-2014, 03:09 AM
they got a lot of needs

Duncan = Donkey
11-22-2014, 03:30 AM
Cause they suck, just like the Lakers. There just not good enough. Simpz.

dalton749
11-22-2014, 04:10 AM
because everyone already called this exact situation in months of knicks vs raps arguments

Munkeysuit
11-22-2014, 05:27 AM
I am going to be brutally honest right now...The New York Knicks are struggling because they lack any real leadership on the court, on the sideline, in the locker room and in the front offices... Carmelo Anthony is the most overrated star of all time and I don't care what numbers or facts you throw at me, that dude has major issues with his game.

bleedprple&gold
11-22-2014, 05:38 AM
have you seen their roster? how can you be blindsided by this

This. Didn't expect them to be good and they are meeting my expectations.

xxcubs22xx
11-22-2014, 08:47 AM
Many great points made above. And I think they are currently entirely unsuited for the triangle

ManningToTyree
11-22-2014, 08:58 AM
Obsessed

GiantsSwaGG
11-22-2014, 09:17 AM
combination of injures, and not having much talent outside of melo.

Pretty much sums it up

DarkKnight
11-22-2014, 09:42 AM
Knicks suck ;)

pebloemer
11-22-2014, 10:10 AM
I still think they expect to be bad this year. A high draft pick and loads of dead weight coming off the cap at seasons end. A year of experience for Fisher and time for Melo to get used to the triangle offense. They can hit the restart this summer with lots of means for improvement.

likemystylez
11-22-2014, 10:29 AM
combination of injures, and not having much talent outside of melo.

THIS!!! LOl rather than going out and trying to bring in talent- they killed themselves this last summer to basically bring back the same star that got them nowhere last year. Not sure why people expected such an improvement. Phil jackson has never been succesful with a team that didnt have atleast 2 hall of famers in their primes

D-Leethal
11-22-2014, 11:18 AM
We dont have the right guys to run our system and its a mess as a result.

Jamiecballer
11-22-2014, 11:26 AM
have you seen their roster? how can you be blindsided by this

+1

there are like 3 players on the entire roster who are not major liabilities on one end or the other. and calderon is out.

Miltstar
11-22-2014, 11:31 AM
I am going to be brutally honest right now...The New York Knicks are struggling because they lack any real leadership on the court, on the sideline, in the locker room and in the front offices... Carmelo Anthony is the most overrated star of all time and I don't care what numbers or facts you throw at me, that dude has major issues with his game.

I don't think you can blame it on Melo he's actually playing pretty well... they have no point guard and no post game you're not gonna win with that situation

RLundi
11-22-2014, 11:38 AM
Can we just be honest? It's because Melo isn't that good. He should not be the first option on a team, just like Jerry Stackhouse never should have been. To me, I see incremental differences. Melo is simply not that good a player. It is what it is.

beasted86
11-22-2014, 11:39 AM
Dalembert fell off. He's really bad now for whatever reason. So that doesn't help their terrible defense.

And a bunch of injuries also.

Miltstar
11-22-2014, 11:43 AM
Can we just be honest? It's because Melo isn't that good. He should not be the first option on a team, just like Jerry Stackhouse never should have been. To me, I see incremental differences. Melo is simply not that good a player. It is what it is.

He's shooting 47%/42% as basically the only option on offense for that team... I don't know what you consider good. Criticize his defense, passing or effort all you want but if this guy isn't your first option on offense you better have an all-time great there instead

Cal827
11-22-2014, 12:15 PM
They need players focused on the defensive end. As DMF said, they also have a bench C starting. Calderon is also out, but I'm not sure if he might hinder their team based in the system.

blahblahyoutoo
11-22-2014, 12:32 PM
Why are the cavs struggling when they have 3 all stars
Why are the Hornets struggling when they have pretty much the same team with Lance added
Why is Brooklyn 5-7 when they are pretty much healthy

Teams struggle when they have new systems implemented and new players added

It doesn't help that our starting pg is out, our 3rd stringer is starting, Melo knee injury since game 2, our rookie out for a month, Jr suspended for a game, Iman missing two games and Bargs(as much as i dislike the guy) is out as well

On Top of a huge learning curve from Our rookie coach I can't say I'm that surprise we are 3-10 even though I expected slightly under 500

Plus our defense is just that bad

lol, melo knee injury when losing. how convenient he would pull that excuse.

nycericanguy
11-22-2014, 12:37 PM
OP, i almost kinda missed your threads... but I knew you were bursting at the seems to create a Knick thread...lol.

This is one year where we can't really lose. If we lose we'll have a great pick and tons of cap.

I will say this, talent is overrated sometimes. It's often about having guys that know how to close games and win games.

Knicks had a 40 year old Kidd and a 37 year old backup PG in Pablo starting two years ago... along with Shump who averaged like 7ppg... yet they won 54 games because they closed out games. Andre Miller has had a similar effect in WSH.

The last two years we've just been horrible at closing games... we find ways to lose every close game imaginable... Calderon on paper should help... but at this point a major roster overhaul is coming and is needed anyway.

ewing
11-22-2014, 12:39 PM
i just hope they haven't given up yet. Im on a knicks vacation

tredigs
11-22-2014, 12:41 PM
In short? Because their offense is average and their defense is an absolute joke. As expected, they just are not good.

Hilarious how slammed posters on here were by NYK homers in the preseason when they projected a sub par season.

tredigs
11-22-2014, 12:44 PM
By the #'s, the Knicks have had the 4th easiest schedule in the NBA. http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerrankings/_/page/2/sort/sos

xxplayerxx23
11-22-2014, 12:52 PM
No Calderon, they are terrible defensively they have one defender on the damn team lol I'll wait to see how Calderon does before I throw in the towel lol

blahblahyoutoo
11-22-2014, 01:03 PM
No Calderon, they are terrible defensively they have one defender on the damn team lol I'll wait to see how Calderon does before I throw in the towel lol

there are some level headed NYK fans, but a lot of y'all seem to be hanging your hopes on calderon (and even bargs) being the huge difference maker.

even without calderon, should y'all really be last in the league, esp with the easiest SOS and the east/atlantic division?

http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi

rhino17
11-22-2014, 01:07 PM
They have no talent on their roster, that is obviously why they suck

deaner
11-22-2014, 01:15 PM
i just hope they haven't given up yet. Im on a knicks vacation

You might run into them there. Say hello.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-22-2014, 01:21 PM
they are even worse than the lakers though

we have had the hardest schedule and Knicks one of the easiest.....not a great start Phil :laugh2:

GiantsSwaGG
11-22-2014, 01:25 PM
yiu know we suck when you have to mention the Lakers in the same sentence as the Knicks :laugh:

FraziersKnicks
11-22-2014, 01:27 PM
The prospect of Jahlil, Karl or Emmanuel is a lot more exciting than the 8th seed and a first round exit this season.

The future looks a lot brighter with the one of those guys, a whole wealth of cap space and another years experience of the triangle.

#allaboardthetank

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-22-2014, 01:28 PM
yiu know we suck when you have to mention the Lakers in the same sentence as the Knicks :laugh:

I know:laugh:

at least you guys have your pick this year :sad2:

GiantsSwaGG
11-22-2014, 01:32 PM
I know:laugh:

at least you guys have your pick this year :sad2:

:laugh2: with our luck, we can be the 2nd worst team in the league and our pick will probably be the 13th pick

GiantsSwaGG
11-22-2014, 01:34 PM
The prospect of Jahlil, Karl or Emmanuel is a lot more exciting than the 8th seed and a first round exit this season.

The future looks a lot brighter with the one of those guys, a whole wealth of cap space and another years experience of the triangle.

#allaboardthetank

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/607607/thumbs/s-TANK-THIS-IS-HOW-I-FEEL-large.jpg for Okafor

bleedprple&gold
11-22-2014, 01:45 PM
Bargnani and Calderon are injured.

They are not going to help the Knicks woeful defense (will actually hurt it more).

DarkKnight
11-22-2014, 01:50 PM
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/607607/thumbs/s-TANK-THIS-IS-HOW-I-FEEL-large.jpg for Okafor

Kid is nice ..... Dreaming the Knicks get him

DoMeFavors
11-22-2014, 05:42 PM
I have to say Dallas won that trade, Chandler is motivated again and helping Mavs a lot. Knicks should have kept him and just looked to trade Felton,JR Smith, Amare.

bucketss
11-22-2014, 06:06 PM
I have to say Dallas won that trade, Chandler is motivated again and helping Mavs a lot. Knicks should have kept him and just looked to trade Felton,JR Smith, Amare.

how? calderon didn't play yet. don't you think you should give it some time before you declare who won the trade.

Goose17
11-22-2014, 06:12 PM
Next season will be interesting, Bargs and Stat coming off the books.

That's 40+ mil.

Millsap, Jeff Green, Rondo, Monroe, Marc Gasol, Dragic, Amir Johnson... some decent FAs out there.

DoMeFavors
11-22-2014, 06:30 PM
how? calderon didn't play yet. don't you think you should give it some time before you declare who won the trade.

So you cant factor injury into it? Jose has been hurt and it might be an issue all season. They didn't pick up Larkins option even though he hasn't been good. Ellington was traded for Acy. And Dalembert is putting up worst stats ever. Dallas would be in much much worse situation if their starting c was Dalembert.

DarkKnight
11-22-2014, 06:49 PM
Rings a bell your sig is the captain of being hurt... :laugh:

Crackadalic
11-22-2014, 06:50 PM
So you cant factor injury into it? Jose has been hurt and it might be an issue all season. They didn't pick up Larkins option even though he hasn't been good. Ellington was traded for Acy. And Dalembert is putting up worst stats ever. Dallas would be in much much worse situation if their starting c was Dalembert.

We all knew Tyson wasn't coming back after next year so we did what we could out of trading him. Of course we could have gotten a better trade. Jose is still a starting point guard in this league. Last i check he gave the Spurs fits in the playoffs. I do agree our center is more of a backup and Larkin is a let down but I think we got a steal in Cleanthony early. Even though he's out for a month I can tell this kid has promise. No wonder he was projected as a 1st rounder.

I also like Greek freaks brother. Dude can defend his but off but is raw.

All I know is the knicks look better going forward because we have
26 million in cap room(34 if we trade Jr/Pablo)
Potential top 3 pick
Melo
And some young players in THJR/Early/Thansis

And if we want we can trade the pick for a star player to play with melo and still have room for a near max

Even if we someone make the playoffs we still have all that cap room to get legit starters and depth to make a run into the top 4 in the conference next season

DarkKnight
11-22-2014, 06:52 PM
how? calderon didn't play yet. don't you think you should give it some time before you declare who won the trade.

No one who has half a brain would say someone has won a trade so early into a season .... But there's one person who would :laugh2:

FraziersKnicks
11-22-2014, 06:55 PM
So you cant factor injury into it? Jose has been hurt and it might be an issue all season. They didn't pick up Larkins option even though he hasn't been good. Ellington was traded for Acy. And Dalembert is putting up worst stats ever. Dallas would be in much much worse situation if their starting c was Dalembert.

I suppose you'll still think it's an awful trade if the Knicks secure a high draft pick and retool for next season with the wealth of cap room they'll have as opposed to fighting their way to a second round exit with one of the oldest teams in the league, no cap room and zero draft picks until 2047...

TheNumber37
11-22-2014, 06:57 PM
Knicks forum.

But, Defense and injuries are number 1.
Still haven't seen Jose Calderon and Bargnani.

Calderon was the biggest acquisition of the year of them and it hasn't shown on the floor.
The Offense, is much much better than last year. The defense is not great and missing Jose And Andrea (two probable 10ppg+ scorers in this system is hurting.

They've lost at least 5 games by 1 or two possessions that may have come down to making a jump shot, which Calderon is the best at on the team

torocan
11-22-2014, 07:07 PM
Lack of talent + injuries + new system + multiple players that struggle to fit in the system.

Expecting Melo to buy into a system that requires heady passing is one thing, expecting JR Smith buy into that system as well might be one bridge too far...

FraziersKnicks
11-22-2014, 07:10 PM
My dream Knicks scenario would unfold like this:

- Tank our way to a top 3 pick whilst everyone gets a years experience in the triangle.
- Draft Jahlil Okafor
- Sign Marc Gasol to a max 4 year deal (not sure the maximum we can offer, something along the lines of 4/$70m maybe).
- Sign Reggie Jackson to a 4/$50m contract OR if Shumpert keeps balling like he has been trade him to Phoenix for Isaiah Thomas.

PG: Reggie Jackson or Isaiah Thomas
SG: Tim Hardaway Jr.
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Jahlil Okafor
C: Marc Gasol

Not very likely to all fall into place but that would be my dream scenario.

deaner
11-22-2014, 07:12 PM
Next season will be interesting, Bargs and Stat coming off the books.

That's 40+ mil.

Millsap, Jeff Green, Rondo, Monroe, Marc Gasol, Dragic, Amir Johnson... some decent FAs out there.

But they are well into the tax so they won't have that much space.

Phil will need to find at least one good player that wants to be paid above anything else. Then that player and Melo MIGHT attract free agents to consider the mess that is New York.

DoMeFavors
11-22-2014, 07:16 PM
I suppose you'll still think it's an awful trade if the Knicks secure a high draft pick and retool for next season with the wealth of cap room they'll have as opposed to fighting their way to a second round exit with one of the oldest teams in the league, no cap room and zero draft picks until 2047...

I am not factoring any of that other stuff just player to player.

PhillyFaninLA
11-22-2014, 07:17 PM
Because Melo is a man of honesty and integrity and went to play for the team that gives him the best chance to win and not the most money.

DoMeFavors
11-22-2014, 07:21 PM
Knicks don't have any problem with offense so I don't see how jose coming back helps them. They are first in 3 point % this season. Their problem is defense and neither Bargnani or Jose help there.

Goose17
11-22-2014, 07:29 PM
Knicks don't have any problem with offense so I don't see how jose coming back helps them. They are first in 3 point % this season. Their problem is defense and neither Bargnani or Jose help there.

Statistically they have the 3rd best offense in the league (ORtg) and the 4th worst defense in the league (DRtg).

So yeah, you're right.

Although I think the bigger issue is just the general lack of talent and coachable players. Calderon, Shump, Melo, Hardaway and maybe Stat if he's having a good day. That's the extent of their talent, even then only one is elite. The rest are solid role players with clearly defined roles and really they only play one side consistently.

They're just a poorly built team, I genuinely thought Phil would have gutted this roster the minute he stepped into the job.

nycericanguy
11-22-2014, 07:33 PM
Statistically they have the 3rd best offense in the league (ORtg) and the 4th worst defense in the league (DRtg).

So yeah, you're right.

Although I think the bigger issue is just the general lack of talent and coachable players. Calderon, Shump, Melo, Hardaway and maybe Stat if he's having a good day. That's the extent of their talent, even then only one is elite. The rest are solid role players with clearly defined roles and really they only play one side consistently.

do they really? THat's kind of shocking, their offense has been awful at times... no way are they the 3rd best offense in the league.

DAL won 50 games last year and had a defense ranked in the bottom tier as well...

Knicks aren't closing games well though, Calderon should help there.

IDunknown
11-22-2014, 07:36 PM
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/607607/thumbs/s-TANK-THIS-IS-HOW-I-FEEL-large.jpg for Okafor

:DThat's funny,all this time I didn't realize that's the singer Tank.

DoMeFavors
11-22-2014, 07:46 PM
If I was the Knicks I would use every thing I can to get Marc Gasol to be their starting C, then use extra money and MLE on a pg and shooters.

Goose17
11-22-2014, 08:03 PM
do they really? THat's kind of shocking, their offense has been awful at times... no way are they the 3rd best offense in the league.


Actually you're right LMFAO, I checked it quickly on my phone when replying and just looked at it again now and realised it was last seasons stats, wow. Epic fail on my part, my bad. I did wonder, I only looked it up because I was sure DMF was wrong and wanted to check. Was sort of surprised when he was right.

Still, it's not as bad as you might think.

They're 6th in the East for ORtg and dead last in the East for DRtg. (although being 6th in the East isn't so great when you realise that's 16th in the league overall)


EDIT; My initial post, not only was I looking at the wrong season I was looking at Eastern Conference teams only... god damn that was a terrible post.

nycericanguy
11-22-2014, 08:12 PM
Actually you're right LMFAO, I checked it quickly on my phone when replying and just looked at it again now and realised it was last seasons stats, wow. Epic fail on my part, my bad. I did wonder, I only looked it up because I was sure DMF was wrong and wanted to check. Was sort of surprised when he was right.

Still, it's not as bad as you might think.

They're 6th in the East for ORtg and dead last in the East for DRtg. (although being 6th in the East isn't so great when you realise that's 16th in the league overall)


EDIT; My initial post, not only was I looking at the wrong season I was looking at Eastern Conference teams only... god damn that was a terrible post.

that makes more sense... well I think they need to at least be a top 10 overall offense to make up for their D... Calderon could get them there.

Larkin simply isn't ready and right now he's not even a legit backup... then Pablo was out for 3 games... the PG situation has been bad.

Crackadalic
11-22-2014, 08:12 PM
Actually you're right LMFAO, I checked it quickly on my phone when replying and just looked at it again now and realised it was last seasons stats, wow. Epic fail on my part, my bad. I did wonder, I only looked it up because I was sure DMF was wrong and wanted to check. Was sort of surprised when he was right.

Still, it's not as bad as you might think.

They're 6th in the East for ORtg and dead last in the East for DRtg. (although being 6th in the East isn't so great when you realise that's 16th in the league overall)


EDIT; My initial post, not only was I looking at the wrong season I was looking at Eastern Conference teams only... god damn that was a terrible post.

Knicks are 16th in offensive efficiency and 28th in defensive efficiency.

Our offense will get much better. Hell we were 5th after bargs went down with an even worse pg. Its our defense that will hold us back

Also it's not like we are getting blown out every game.I can name you 5 games which we lost by 2-3 points because we didn't execute well in the end and two games where the defense killed us

Another thing people don't realize is we are shooting the highest % from 2's which is the most inefficient shot in basketball

Yes we are shooting a good % from 3 but we are also near the bottom in attempts

Another thing that is killing us is were putting teams on the line an average 13 times a game. And we shoot the lowest in nba history lol

We are also 4th best in protecting the rim but we just don't have to athletes to guard the other areas on the floor

Its just so many things that can be easily correctable. We are a sub 500 team but not 3-10 bad. Just a lot of bad luck

Goose17
11-22-2014, 08:23 PM
Knicks are 16th in offensive efficiency and 28th in defensive efficiency.



Yeah that's what I said. Which works out as 6th in the east and last in the east.

GoferKing_
11-22-2014, 08:34 PM
Not good IQ.

jimm120
11-22-2014, 08:42 PM
Defense. Plain and simple.

Last year, our offense was ranked 11th. It might be pretty high, but it was easy to defend in the 4th. But our deffense was 24th

This year, our offense is worse, at 17th. It is slowly improving and it is harder to defend in the 4th quarter. But, our defense is 28th.

So, offense is worse than last year overall (though better for 4th quarter) but defense is somehow even worse.

FraziersKnicks
11-22-2014, 08:42 PM
But they are well into the tax so they won't have that much space.

Phil will need to find at least one good player that wants to be paid above anything else. Then that player and Melo MIGHT attract free agents to consider the mess that is New York.

Knicks have $38m guaranteed after this season. The projected cap for 2015-16 is $66.5m. We'll be about $28m under the cap. Enough for a max deal and a very good second piece.

LOOTERX9
11-22-2014, 10:09 PM
Melo has no intangibles that lifts his teammates. He is not that athletic and does not inspire the crowd with a great athletic dunk during games. He just scores his and that's it

Crackadalic
11-22-2014, 10:22 PM
Melo has no intangibles that lifts his teammates. He is not that athletic and does not inspire the crowd with a great athletic dunk during games. He just scores his and that's it

Yes thats what all great players should do to win more. Great athletic dunks pre game

blahblahyoutoo
11-22-2014, 10:44 PM
Melo has no intangibles that lifts his teammates. He is not that athletic and does not inspire the crowd with a great athletic dunk during games. He just scores his and that's it

melo does not make teammates around him better. in fact, i'd say he does the opposite and makes them, and hence the team, worse.
about time a knicks fan noticed this too.

JasonJohnHorn
11-22-2014, 11:36 PM
I think the primary reason is that they suck. They got rid of their defensive anchor and now they have a ball-hog running the triangle.


They need to trade Melo now that he's tradeable and under contract for a few years, and just start rebuilding.

Seizabmc
11-22-2014, 11:39 PM
Well the cavs only have one more win than the knicks do so the cavs must suck as well.

Crackadalic
11-22-2014, 11:44 PM
I think the primary reason is that they suck. They got rid of their defensive anchor and now they have a ball-hog running the triangle.


They need to trade Melo now that he's tradeable and under contract for a few years, and just start rebuilding.

This is how I can tell you haven't been watching. He's been shooting over 60% last 6 games and he is averaging 3.5 assist per game. Paul george average the same amount but I don't hear anything about him not passing more

I do agree the roster isn't good but ball hoging is far from what Melo has done which is more than I ask from his selfish ways last two seasons on iso ball

ewing
11-23-2014, 12:36 AM
I think the primary reason is that they suck. They got rid of their defensive anchor and now they have a ball-hog running the triangle.


They need to trade Melo now that he's tradeable and under contract for a few years, and just start rebuilding.

It fun to make fun of the knicks D but other then a couple games where they totally fell apart the D has been decent. Offensively, on the other hand they have had a couple good halfs and otherwise be terrible

deaner
11-23-2014, 01:48 AM
Knicks have $38m guaranteed after this season. The projected cap for 2015-16 is $66.5m. We'll be about $28m under the cap. Enough for a max deal and a very good second piece.

So two and a half men with zero depth. Good luck with that.

deaner
11-23-2014, 01:50 AM
Well the cavs only have one more win than the knicks do so the cavs must suck as well.

For real? You just played the we beat Philly card?

albertajaysfan
11-23-2014, 02:13 AM
I know:laugh:

at least you guys have your pick this year :sad2:

Don't worry it looks like the Lakers are going to suck enough to keep their pick.

albertajaysfan
11-23-2014, 02:17 AM
This is how I can tell you haven't been watching. He's been shooting over 60% last 6 games and he is averaging 3.5 assist per game. Paul george average the same amount but I don't hear anything about him not passing more

I do agree the roster isn't good but ball hoging is far from what Melo has done which is more than I ask from his selfish ways last two seasons on iso ball

I don't understand people blaming Melo. His supporting cast is mostly garbage. I am interested to see what New York can do in the off season. Problem is convincing players to come to an abysmal team is harder even when you are the Knicks. I think it is going to take a few seasons for them to turn it around.

As much as I am loving the Raps being atop the Atlantic it would be nice to have some competition. It may be more stressful but it is also therefor more exciting.

ewing
11-23-2014, 02:47 AM
I don't understand people blaming Melo. His supporting cast is mostly garbage. I am interested to see what New York can do in the off season. Problem is convincing players to come to an abysmal team is harder even when you are the Knicks. I think it is going to take a few seasons for them to turn it around.

As much as I am loving the Raps being atop the Atlantic it would be nice to have some competition. It may be more stressful but it is also therefor more exciting.


the knicks are in a weird spot. they have a franchise guy. Melo might not be the best franchise guy, but he is one of them. They have a little talent, the little talent they have is old, and they are dependent on buying a team down the road if they are going to be really good.

FraziersKnicks
11-23-2014, 09:22 AM
So two and a half men with zero depth. Good luck with that.

Carmelo Anthony
Jose Calderon
Tim Hardaway Jr.
JR Smith
Pablo Prigioni
Cleanthony Early
2015 1st round pick
$28m in cap room

:confused:

Keep hating though :up:

xxplayerxx23
11-23-2014, 10:11 AM
Someone tell me the knicks record with Calderon coughundefeatedcough

nycericanguy
11-23-2014, 10:48 AM
someone tell me the knicks record with calderon coughundefeatedcough

this!

Knicks is back!...

Chrisclover
11-23-2014, 11:14 AM
Anthony ist who he was. Maybe he needs time to adjust himself into a new system.

Chrisclover
11-23-2014, 11:16 AM
Don't worry it looks like the Lakers are going to suck enough to keep their pick.
I hope so. But the domineering Kobe will not allow it.

Goose17
11-23-2014, 12:08 PM
Carmelo Anthony
Jose Calderon
Tim Hardaway Jr.
JR Smith
Pablo Prigioni
Cleanthony Early
2015 1st round pick
$28m in cap room

:confused:

Keep hating though :up:

You realise JR Smith is a cancer to that franchise? Streaky chucker, garbage in almost every other area and an awful attitude/locker room presence.

Prigioni is "Meh" at best.

You should have mentioned Shumpert. He's better than both of those guys.

ewing
11-23-2014, 12:35 PM
You realise JR Smith is a cancer to that franchise? Streaky chucker, garbage in almost every other area and an awful attitude/locker room presence.

Prigioni is "Meh" at best.

You should have mentioned Shumpert. He's better than both of those guys.


Shump isn't on the books after this year

nycericanguy
11-23-2014, 01:12 PM
TOR is off to their best start in franchise history, best record in the NBA, just won at CLE last night... and yet TOR fans are making threads about why NY is struggling, breaking down their cap space next summer, and in the Knick forum talking about Bargs calf strain...lol

You really can't make this stuff up... must be some Napoleon complex...

Goose17
11-23-2014, 01:13 PM
Shump isn't on the books after this year

Really? Damn it doesn't feel like it's been 4 seasons for him. I forget he was drafted the same year as Klay.

KnickNyKnick
11-23-2014, 01:27 PM
TOR is off to their best start in franchise history, best record in the NBA, just won at CLE last night... and yet TOR fans are making threads about why NY is struggling, breaking down their cap space next summer, and in the Knick forum talking about Bargs calf strain...lol

You really can't make this stuff up... must be some Napoleon complex...


:D trollbase

a toronto fan makes a new knicks thread every week... oh wait just one fan..

ink
11-23-2014, 01:30 PM
I still think they expect to be bad this year. A high draft pick and loads of dead weight coming off the cap at seasons end. A year of experience for Fisher and time for Melo to get used to the triangle offense. They can hit the restart this summer with lots of means for improvement.

This.

Tough project ahead for Phil but this year was never going to be anything great.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-23-2014, 01:41 PM
Carmelo Anthony
Jose Calderon
Tim Hardaway Jr.
JR Smith
Pablo Prigioni
Cleanthony Early
2015 1st round pick
$28m in cap room

:confused:

Keep hating though :up:

its always next year for knicks fans...for how many years now?

Kinkotheclown
11-23-2014, 01:45 PM
Knicks suck ;)

So does Arod! Are they related? I mean, they are both from NY. Geno sucks too. Holy crap. NY trifecta of suck!!! They must be from the same family.

Kinkotheclown
11-23-2014, 01:48 PM
its always next year for knicks fans...for how many years now?

41 going on 42

Crackadalic
11-23-2014, 02:05 PM
its always next year for knicks fans...for how many years now?

Don't seem to remember having a 30 mil in cap room with a star in his prime and a potential top 5 lottery pick in the weak east where the bucks can be a 5th seed

BHF
11-23-2014, 02:54 PM
TOR is off to their best start in franchise history, best record in the NBA, just won at CLE last night... and yet TOR fans are making threads about why NY is struggling, breaking down their cap space next summer, and in the Knick forum talking about Bargs calf strain...lol

You really can't make this stuff up... must be some Napoleon complex...

Its one raptor fan a troll that is obsessed with the knicks for some reason.

FriedTofuz
11-23-2014, 03:12 PM
I didnt troll, I made a thread that's created a topic for discussion without posting anything after creating the thread. That isnt trolling, if you feel otherwise, there's a report button. Dont derail threads and constantly say how Im obssessed with the knicks, I make threads for discussion, and that's exactly what this thread has brought.

FraziersKnicks
11-23-2014, 03:25 PM
its always next year for knicks fans...for how many years now?

Apart from the fact this is the best position we've been in for years in terms of roster flexibility and talent.

FriedTofuz
11-23-2014, 03:41 PM
Apart from the fact this is the best position we've been in for years in terms of roster flexibility and talent.

I wouldnt agree that iti's the best position. If you have a superstar player and are one of the worst in the NBA, Id question how good that superstar really is. What is the backup plan if free agency does not go as planned?
I see no reason for either Aldridge nor Gasol to leave their teams. Other than those two free agents, It's only dragic who remains the most realistic target but the knicks would be compeating with the lakers for dragic.

deaner
11-23-2014, 04:10 PM
Apart from the fact this is the best position we've been in for years in terms of roster flexibility and talent.

Haha. NY feels good that this is the best spot they've been in for years?

LanceUpperCut
11-23-2014, 04:36 PM
TOR is off to their best start in franchise history, best record in the NBA, just won at CLE last night... and yet TOR fans are making threads about why NY is struggling, breaking down their cap space next summer, and in the Knick forum talking about Bargs calf strain...lol

You really can't make this stuff up... must be some Napoleon complex...

You know it's just one guy, no one else gives a **** if the Knicks suck and wonder why when it's pretty obvious

BHF
11-23-2014, 04:38 PM
You know it's just one guy, no one else gives a **** if the Knicks suck and wonder why when it's pretty obvious

This.

colinskik
11-23-2014, 05:15 PM
Yeah, let's just name the same problems that the Knicks had last year and assume they hold true again this year ... Since most of you have not been watching the Knicks and actually analyzing their problems, allow me to educate.

The Knicks' main problem over the course of this short year is their ability to defend the three point shot. Their rim protection defense is actually good (I think 4th best) but they're letting teams that have trouble scoring and shooting the three (i.e., MIN, MIL) shoot the lights out and score over 100.

Fisher has emphasized an inside out defensive scheme and that seems to be working on the inside portion. Unfortunately it's been leaving shooter wiiiiide open on the outside.

It happened again last night vs Philly, almost let them get back into the game with Covington of all people hitting four to five threes.

Much of their problems will be alleviated with time, learning to defend the three point line as well as they do the paint. Right now they're doubling guys as soon as they drive, guy kicks out to wide open shooter. We've seen the offense improve with time and practice, and the defense should as well at some point.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-23-2014, 05:32 PM
Apart from the fact this is the best position we've been in for years in terms of roster flexibility and talent.

heard it before

2-ONE-5
11-23-2014, 05:53 PM
everyone outside of NY knew the Knicks would stink this year.

Goose17
11-23-2014, 05:59 PM
everyone outside of NY knew the Knicks would stink this year.

This^

And N.Y fans on here were hounding me and losing their **** when I said they wouldn't be a playoff team despite the weak conference.

"But! ... Melo! Phil Jackson! Triangle! Fisher!"

But! You suck!

benny01
11-23-2014, 06:04 PM
I didnt troll, I made a thread that's created a topic for discussion without posting anything after creating the thread. That isnt trolling, if you feel otherwise, there's a report button. Dont derail threads and constantly say how Im obssessed with the knicks, I make threads for discussion, and that's exactly what this thread has brought.
The point is that you meant to create a thread to bash on Knick fans. If you don't actually know why the Knicks are struggling than your IQ must be about 37. Everyone, including most knick fans, knew that they were going to be terrible this year. This thread is to bait Knick fans. Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.

BHF
11-23-2014, 06:13 PM
The point is that you meant to create a thread to bash on Knick fans. If you don't actually know why the Knicks are struggling than your IQ must be about 37. Everyone, including most knick fans, knew that they were going to be terrible this year. This thread is to bait Knick fans. Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.

I agree with everything except the the bold part. Most knick fans had the knicks wining the division and said the Atlantic is wide open and up for grabs.

JEDean89
11-23-2014, 06:22 PM
Most of my fellow knick fan's are unsufferable. i've been preaching doom and gloom on our knicks forum not because i enjoy it, but because it's what i see and what i believe. this team is built to fail. melo cannot carry a team on either side of the ball. he needs a real PG to get the team involved, he needs at least 2 great defenders to cover up for him. Melo is great when he is asked to score and rebound. not when he's being asked to defend and pass.

Phil has a system, this team is not built for that system. Melo, Shumps, Dalemebert, Smith, these are guys that appear early to work in the system. Phil has major flexibility going forward and knows better than anyone what this team needs. No point trying to fit square pegs in round holes. Maybe a few more guys will get it in this system, and we will be only a few pieces away from a sold 9 man rotation that can win in the triangle. Until then, with a number of prizes in the lottery, there is no reason for me to want to be in the 10-16 range when there are a number of awesome players that we can draft.

benny01
11-23-2014, 06:25 PM
I agree with everything except the the bold part. Most knick fans had the knicks wining the division and said the Atlantic is wide open and up for grabs.
Should have probably qualified that with rational Knick fans.

Crackadalic
11-23-2014, 07:34 PM
People keep saying Melo is the reason why we suck but why is he shooting 47% almost 6 boards a game, 2nd career best in assist, 42% from 3 and his lowest usage rate is almost 4 years yet somehow its Melos fault we suck

He's becoming more and more efficient every year but somehow its his fault. Our 2nd best scorer is Shump who is a shade under 13ppg.

Everyone else is a one way dimensional player

We have decent talent on paper but when we have too many player playing on one end your going to lose basketball games

When your main players are always injured your going to lose basketball games

When you have almost 10 different starting lineups and rotations shuffling every game your going to lose basketball games

Chemistry is a fragile thing and we are still learning an offense that doesn't fit a lot of current players
We had shane larkin starting and once Jose came back is out of the rotation. Think about that for a second
Hell the cavs have 3 all stars and only have one more win than us

All I know is I'm liking our future better because we have 28-34 mil in cap space to sign players. Every player in FA is better than everyone on our roster not name Melo.

We have a chance to get a top 5 pick to either draft a impact player or even trade the pick to net a star

We have options and I rather retool than rebuild for the next 5 years

effen5
11-23-2014, 08:30 PM
All I remember in the offseason is the Knicks fan bringing up 54 win team and some knicks fan saying they would be a top 3 team in the east...:laugh:

GiantsSwaGG
11-23-2014, 09:15 PM
All I remember in the offseason is the Knicks fan bringing up 54 win team and some knicks fan saying they would be a top 3 team in the east...:laugh:

I remember when sixers fans bragged about winning a title this year, wow I can make stuff up too

xxplayerxx23
11-23-2014, 09:47 PM
Anthony ist who he was. Maybe he needs time to adjust himself into a new system.


Everyone just assumes its melo. Guy is a beast he has hot garbage minus 3 players who are average to above average ball players. Seriously look at the roster it's awful.

Jamiecballer
11-23-2014, 10:17 PM
I remember when sixers fans bragged about winning a title this year, wow I can make stuff up too
I am sorry to say that not only is it true you participated in said threads.

koreancabbage
11-23-2014, 10:17 PM
everyone outside of NY knew the Knicks would stink this year.

Remember that legendary thread named something along "Toronto Raptors: Legitimate or Lightning in a bottle?" made by the Knicks fan Latinofire21 (or whatever his name was).

Your statement is true lol. Now Knick fans are SO HAPPY to have a draft pick lol.

Watch as the Knicks improve (as expected) and they would be like "WTF, WE WANT THAT DRAFT PICK!"
And remembering some Knicks fans were saying "you don't need a PG for the triangle" and now they had wished Calderón was back in the lineup.

Knicks will get better and go on their run this season- and with how weak the bottom of the East is, playoffs are possible for the Knicks, even 30-35 wins might get you a playoff spot Hahaha.

blahblahyoutoo
11-23-2014, 11:11 PM
TOR is off to their best start in franchise history, best record in the NBA, just won at CLE last night... and yet TOR fans are making threads about why NY is struggling, breaking down their cap space next summer, and in the Knick forum talking about Bargs calf strain...lol

You really can't make this stuff up... must be some Napoleon complex...

no, it's the fanbase. you guys make it really easy to hate your team.

blahblahyoutoo
11-23-2014, 11:13 PM
its always next year for knicks fans...for how many years now?

this year it's because it's a "new system" with "new players" and a "new coach" and a "new GM" (yes, Knicks fans have pointed fingers at the GM as a reason why they're off to a slow start).

so next year when they dump a bunch of players and get new ones, will they re-use the "new players" learning a "new system" excuse again?

ghettosean
11-23-2014, 11:16 PM
I remember when sixers fans bragged about winning a title this year, wow I can make stuff up too
I am sorry to say that not only is it true you participated in said threads.

@Jamiecballer i agree i was in these threads and read the posts

blahblahyoutoo
11-23-2014, 11:25 PM
Everyone just assumes its melo. Guy is a beast he has hot garbage minus 3 players who are average to above average ball players. Seriously look at the roster it's awful.

if only he didn't force away all the good players and draft picks when he forced his way to NY.

and it's a good thing melo is all about winning and not about the money, as evidenced by his generous home town discount when resigning this year.
clearly he sees a winning formula in here somewhere.

nycericanguy
11-23-2014, 11:51 PM
You know it's just one guy, no one else gives a **** if the Knicks suck and wonder why when it's pretty obvious

it's a few... not gonna name names but check the Knicks forum... there's 4 or 5 TOR posters always in there.

Honestly you guys have a great team so far this year, I think even the most optimistic TOR fan would have to be surprised... shouldn't be worrying about the KNicks..

koreancabbage
11-23-2014, 11:52 PM
Should have probably qualified that with rational Knick fans.

far too little on this forum. you might be the first.

there is hope for this fanbase =P

xxplayerxx23
11-23-2014, 11:55 PM
no, it's the fanbase. you guys make it really easy to hate your team.


And you singlehandly make it easy to hate your team.

blahblahyoutoo
11-24-2014, 12:02 AM
And you singlehandly make it easy to hate your team.

how so? i don't go around proclaiming how great we're gonna be.
i don't rub championships in anyone's face.

oh, lemme guess. because I can be honest about the knicks, and y'alls can't handle the honesty because it's negative.

Crackadalic
11-24-2014, 12:06 AM
So a few posters were claiming 50 wins and winning the division

Posters like me having them fight for a playoff spot and IF everything is clicking and is injury free have a chance to win the division

Unfortunately when you have a third string pg playing as your starter for 13 games your going to lose some games.

People are not claiming Jose as the savior but you can't sit here and act like were not hurting froma lack of another starter especially since our only legit backup is 36 years old

We had to deal with Felton who was the 4th worst pg last year and now a 2nd year player who isn't even a back up

We lost 5 games because we lack the leadership from that position to help win games. All 5 games were lost within 3-4 points that could have gone either way for both teams. Its just unlucky.

I still think getting a top pick is the best way to go but I'm not mad at fighting for a spot in the playoffs either

xxplayerxx23
11-24-2014, 12:07 AM
how so? i don't go around proclaiming how great we're gonna be.
i don't rub championships in anyone's face.

oh, lemme guess. because I can be honest about the knicks, and y'alls can't handle the honesty because it's negative.

Lol. No how about the fact that you come into the knicks forum and troll your *** off. I don't care about telling it as it is, you just troll and come in the forum to get a reaction

xxplayerxx23
11-24-2014, 12:08 AM
I'm not ganna lie, I thought 45 wins were in the cards, health has been a factor but the talent isn't there. Season isn't over obviously but we have our pick which is a good backup. I still think they have a shot at the playoffs its the east.

ewing
11-24-2014, 12:10 AM
Yeah, let's just name the same problems that the Knicks had last year and assume they hold true again this year ... Since most of you have not been watching the Knicks and actually analyzing their problems, allow me to educate.

The Knicks' main problem over the course of this short year is their ability to defend the three point shot. Their rim protection defense is actually good (I think 4th best) but they're letting teams that have trouble scoring and shooting the three (i.e., MIN, MIL) shoot the lights out and score over 100.

Fisher has emphasized an inside out defensive scheme and that seems to be working on the inside portion. Unfortunately it's been leaving shooter wiiiiide open on the outside.

It happened again last night vs Philly, almost let them get back into the game with Covington of all people hitting four to five threes.

Much of their problems will be alleviated with time, learning to defend the three point line as well as they do the paint. Right now they're doubling guys as soon as they drive, guy kicks out to wide open shooter. We've seen the offense improve with time and practice, and the defense should as well at some point.


they do over help on potential drivers a lot. They also are very mismatched roster wise. when they have gone big they cant put the ball in the hole for ****. When they go smaller or try to push themselves they fall apart defensively.

blahblahyoutoo
11-24-2014, 12:15 AM
Lol. No how about the fact that you come into the knicks forum and troll your *** off. I don't care about telling it as it is, you just troll and come in the forum to get a reaction

link to said troll posts.
k thx.

xxplayerxx23
11-24-2014, 12:18 AM
link to said troll posts.
k thx.

Oh so you are denying your posts in the knicks forum :laugh: ok. Link? Just go into the knicks game threads and you are there lol whatever enjoy the rest of the night.

GiantsSwaGG
11-24-2014, 12:21 AM
Blahblahyoutoo only post in the Knicks thread when we lose, so I doubt he was there in a while lol

xxplayerxx23
11-24-2014, 12:26 AM
Blahblahyoutoo only post in the Knicks thread when we lose, so I doubt he was there in a while lol

Well 10 times he must of been there lol. He's just made Calderon is undefeated as the Knicks starting pg :p

FriedTofuz
11-24-2014, 01:31 AM
Apart from the fact this is the best position we've been in for years in terms of roster flexibility and talent.

Are you sure? Other members from the knicks fanbase feel like it's always the same thing being said for years. It's always " oh we'll do this and that next year" and none of it really happens. I noticed this from a fan and It's probably the least biased thing I can say since it is a quote of a knick fan who's probably watched and been around the knicks a lot longer than an outsider like myself:


Passionate about the future maybe. 15 games into the season people are talking about next year. This has been happening for about 3 or 4 years now. It's always next season we're getting this person or that person or we should trade this person for that person. When will it stop?!

bucketss
11-24-2014, 01:37 AM
should have taken the lowry trade.

LongIslandIcedZ
11-24-2014, 01:47 AM
Do people really hate teams because of their fan base on an internet forum? That's silly.

You can find dumbass fans of every team, the Knicks just happen to have the most fans. The more fans you have, the more idiots you'll have.

I've seen idiotic raptor, Heat and Bulls fans (and almost every other team). Every team has them. I would never let a couple idiot fans make me decide to hate a team. But that's just me.

FriedTofuz
11-24-2014, 04:05 AM
Do people really hate teams because of their fan base on an internet forum? That's silly.

You can find dumbass fans of every team, the Knicks just happen to have the most fans. The more fans you have, the more idiots you'll have.

I've seen idiotic raptor, Heat and Bulls fans (and almost every other team). Every team has them. I would never let a couple idiot fans make me decide to hate a team. But that's just me.
I agree with what you're saying but I dont think people hate the knicks as a team, just unrealistix fans(Where is latinofire?)But like you said, the biggwr the fanbase, bigger the more idiots as well.

Legitimate
11-24-2014, 04:15 AM
we all knew except for knicks fans that they were gonna suck this year,,, then they put that one thread about raps lightning in a bottle. lol were the best team in the east, now put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Crackadalic
11-24-2014, 05:06 AM
Are you sure? Other members from the knicks fanbase feel like it's always the same thing being said for years. It's always " oh we'll do this and that next year" and none of it really happens. I noticed this from a fan and It's probably the least biased thing I can say since it is a quote of a knick fan who's probably watched and been around the knicks a lot longer than an outsider like myself:

Is it our fault that management always fails in giving us a team that wants to play hard and not deal with all this drams bs that happens every year?

The down fall happen as soon as we traded Patrick Ewing. I remember crying my eyes since I was young at the time. Thats when **** just kept going down hill

After we broke up our 99 team its been horrible nonsense and drama

Do I have to remind people the early layden years? That **** was just done right sickening. People wanna say the Isiah years was worse but nah Layden pretty much screw up the early decade for us

Every year we try to cheer for the team but end up in disappointment because we had no directions, no draft picks to develop and a rolving door of talent coming in and out year after year with no chemistry to build.I felt like half the roster was different every single year

We had a decent team with marbury and almost made the playoffs but fell short because of injuries. That gave us all hope for next season especially after we got Z-bo. We were wrong. Sexual harassment suit, players fighting each other, coach not letting players practice because he quit it was a straight up embarrassment

Then we had to clean up and start all over for two years of pain just to get lebron and ended up with Amare.

We got our star in Melo and gave it max two years to fill out the roster since we gutted the team and we were rewarded we 3 playoff years and one 54 win team

Everyone thought we will duplicate or get close to that success last year.Nope. Why? Dolan once again. Firing Grunweld, internal fights with players, prima donnas everywhere, giving up half the season and a coach playing favorites?

You may say we knick fans are always cheering for next year but when we get **** like last season and the last decade can you blame us?

Phil you got your star. You got you 28-34 mil in cap space. You have your coach that will teach the right way and not play favorites. YOu have your pick that can be a top 3 to middle round pick

Now all he has to do is just change the culture because to many "leftover" players from the last culture is still here

All I know is I'll be happy when the JR's and The Bargs of the world are off this team. **** having talent. We just want players that will play hard every game.

If people wanna call me fake fan for not wanting to win this year well half the roster should be ashamed for giving that performance last season so why should I care for players that isn't about winning basketball. I'll always cheer for the name in the front. Not the back

effen5
11-24-2014, 05:52 AM
I remember when sixers fans bragged about winning a title this year, wow I can make stuff up too

I'm bored so


To strengthen my argument. ....

Nobody on the Raptors is even close to being as good as Melo.....

Nobody on the Raptors can guard Amare in the paint......

Nobody on the Raptors bench is as good as Shumpert or Timmy

No young talent on the Raptors team has the potential to be as good as Early or Larkin

And again.... our coaching staff Fisher, Rambus, etc... are all proven winners and we have the biggest winner of all time calling the shots.

Raptors had one winning season with Lowry in a contract year. (See Houston Rockets)

Knicks just had a 54 win season a year ago with a worse team than they have now!

You can pull up as many stats as your heart desires but the Raptors will never be anything but practice dummys to the elite (Knicks soon to be) PERIOD!


Many feel like Rose is still top 5 and his jello knees will take the Bulls to the top of the Eastern conference if he is healthy.....
So in that case, Amare and Kobe are still top 5 if healthy. .... the whole thing is None of them including Rose will ever be what they once were. The type of injuries they had are lingering. Amare and Kobe have played more games and both put up better numbers than Rose in the last 2 years.

Among the 3, Amare has the best chance to excel this year because there is no pressure for him to play big like it is on Rose and Kobe and they don't have a top scoring option to play off of like Melo. Amare does have incentive to play at a top tier level because he is in a contract year and is in a system where Phil thinks he should be playing center. In 2011 he was a MVP candidate at center for the Knicks and didn't have anyone nearly as good as Melo, Jr or Calderón to kick the ball out to when double teamed.

In the triangle, the offense flows through the bigs getting touches in the paint then feeding slashers, Shump, Jr, Timmy, Melo, Acy, Larkin or kicking it out to shooters, Jr, Melo, Timmy, Calderón, Pablo, Bargnani, Jason Smith....... If you can't see that this team has the weapons to be a 54 win team again then you better go back and look at the 2010 Lakers or the 90's Bulls teams.

Amare will have a breakout year, he is only 31 years old and in great shape in a contract year.

Lulz


how does a team have injuries one year and have a losing record, & all of a sudden that becomes their identity?

this is going to be funny when the healthy Knicks stun the east.. Raptor fans are really delusional, every fanbase has them but i think they take the prize. Im not sure if the Knicks will win 54, closer to 47-50.

One things for sure though, Toronto will battle for 8th while the Knicks and Nets battle for the division.

Seriously, look at both teams totals per game last year. A year long injured Knicks team were almost equivalent to a healthy Raptors team. hmm.. you could make the arguement Tor won 11 more games. But as a Knicks fan you saw how many games were lost within the last minutes due to poor coaching.

Thats changed now, they are Healthy now. Like the other guy said, Ill let the Season speak for its self. Cant wait for JR to lay some pipe


Knicks are going to win the Atlantic division.
I really don't understand why people don't see this.

Raptors had a best case scenario year
Boston is ? and Rondo is on his way out.
The Nets lost Pierce, Livingston, KG is older and Hollins is NOT the coach for D will
Sixers are not trying to win at all.

Knicks will be at least a 4 seed by wining the Atlantic. It wont matter because they are gonna win 50 games


Because he is top 5 in the league as a spot up shooter... He has games where he makes 10 plus 3... Even when he goes 8/17 from 3 it's great.

Jr and Tyler are hardly comparable players.

Derozan is better than Jr (though Jr still has more potential because he's a better shooter, playmaker and ball handler, defender) because of Jr's up and down play.

If Jr was the number 1 option on his team, I'd wager he'd put better numbers than DeMar, it's debatable, sure. But Jr Smith per 40 mins with 20-25 shots a night...

jesus christ


Cleary ... Knicks have a better TEAM than the Raptors and more elite players.

I'm done arguing but will be the last one laughing during the season.

Raptors are an expansion team that will NEVER win a championship!

Clearly...


Knicks will shock you all. :laugh:


I think the Knicks have the potential to be a championship contender. Two years, the Knicks won 54 games and made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. I can't see why they can't return there this season.

For the Knicks to do better, we need Amare Stoudemire and Andrea Bargnini to be healthy and be a strong presences in the middle with Samuel Dalembart. Last year, the duo of Bargs and Stoudemire proved to be strong. If they can stay healthy, I can't see why the Knicks can't get the championship round or even the Finals if our big men play well. We all know those are 2 BIG IFs.

Thoughts?


If everything goes right in terms of health which is a big if I would say that ECF berth is realistic


I think Phil, Fisher and the Triangle are going to cut up the competition.

I predict 50-55 wins. Then the playoffs becomes a game of matchups, health and luck.

I would expect 45-50 wins. 50+ wins if we overachieve.

I'd like to see:

Melo continue being Melo (adapt beautifully into triangle)
Amare return to 20 PPG and 8 RPG status in 32-33 MPG (and make the All-Star game)
Hardaway rises to 15 PPG, puts up 2 APG and 2 RPG with improved defense
JR Smith hovers around 15 PPG and begins to show unselfishness, leading to him opting out and we never see him again
Shumpert develops a solid shot in the triangle and is a solid starter
Calderon averages at least 8 assists per game
Early is a solid rotational player with a lot of promise and makes All-Rookie 1st team
Larkin develops nicely as Calderon's backup and can be relied upon in a Nate Robinson like role as an energizer


meh I really don't know man but I definitely see us being a top 4 team I predicted great things last year and we all know how that worked im just in a wait and see position right now

Definitely


Ok, no Lance, no way the Pacers are even in the top 5. How do you let a guy who led the NBA in triple doubles walk over a couple million ?

i think they fall to 6 seed under the Bulls.

PP and KH with the Wiz! They move past the Bulls.

Since Lebron had a less talented team as #1seed for so many years, i have to go with The King when he has Kyrie, Wiggins and an upgrade of youth all around him. Those guys are going to play their butts off for him.

new rankings:

Cavs
Knicks
Miami
Wiz
Bulls
Pacers
Raptors
Brooklyn


exactly but yet you still got people saying we are a lottery team :facepalm:

:facepalm:

Seriously, while there are some reasonable Knick fans out there, most of you mother ****ers are delusional....and every knick fan out there owes an apology for ripping the Raptors. Holy hate by Knick fans.

and FYI, these posts came from two hilarious epic threads lol.

effen5
11-24-2014, 05:54 AM
we all knew except for knicks fans that they were gonna suck this year,,, then they put that one thread about raps lightning in a bottle. lol were the best team in the east, now put that in your pipe and smoke it!

I got half the posts from that thread...omg :laugh:

Jamiecballer
11-24-2014, 09:41 AM
Its a handful of posters responsible for most of the nonsense. Smart knick posters actually exist I have seen it.

2-ONE-5
11-24-2014, 09:52 AM
I'm bored so



Lulz







jesus christ



Clearly...

:laugh:










Definitely





:facepalm:

Seriously, while there are some reasonable Knick fans out there, most of you mother ****ers are delusional....and every knick fan out there owes an apology for ripping the Raptors. Holy hate by Knick fans.

and FYI, these posts came from two hilarious epic threads lol.

for the WIN

LanceUpperCut
11-24-2014, 10:06 AM
I'm bored so





Lulz







jesus christ



Clearly...

:laugh:










Definitely





:facepalm:

Seriously, while there are some reasonable Knick fans out there, most of you mother ****ers are delusional....and every knick fan out there owes an apology for ripping the Raptors. Holy hate by Knick fans.

and FYI, these posts came from two hilarious epic threads lol.

That was awesome.

Goose17
11-24-2014, 10:11 AM
Hahaha, Effen5, that's my favourite post in the last week or so for sure. Brilliant.

LongIslandIcedZ
11-24-2014, 10:35 AM
null

How many different posters are you quoting here? I'm on my phone, and can't really tell.

This is silly because I can go to an old Chicago Bulls thread where posters were saying D Rose is better than LeBron. Hell, even this thread was made by a bizarrely insecure Raptor fan. Not sure why, the Raptors are ****ing awesome. We all know how insufferable many heat fans have been the last 4 year's.

Judging the voice of the many by the actions of the few is silly. But again that's just me.

GiantsSwaGG
11-24-2014, 10:42 AM
Since when does 4 poster count as the whole fan base? :laugh2: this ain't the Nets, but yeah those are delusional post!

LanceUpperCut
11-24-2014, 10:59 AM
Since when does 4 poster count as the whole fan base? :laugh2: this ain't the Nets, but yeah those are delusional post!

Even though it's more like 10 or so your right. But funny how you mention Raptor fans keep making Knicks threads earlier when it's been 1 guy over and over.

GiantsSwaGG
11-24-2014, 11:06 AM
Even though it's more like 10 or so your right. But funny how you mention Raptor fans keep making Knicks threads earlier when it's been 1 guy over and over.

I've never mentioned Raps fans making Knicks thread, it's only Friedtofuz and I'm still shock you guys claim him

Goose17
11-24-2014, 11:10 AM
Since when does 4 poster count as the whole fan base? :laugh2: this ain't the Nets, but yeah those are delusional post!

4? There's like 9 or 10 there. And I believe the discussion was Raptors fans are claiming Knicks fans were doubting them and hyping their own team up. Knicks fans deny this ever happened. Evidence was presented. Knicks fans look foolish.

It's still a small sample size but the gap is obvious.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-24-2014, 11:36 AM
I still think they expect to be bad this year. A high draft pick and loads of dead weight coming off the cap at seasons end. A year of experience for Fisher and time for Melo to get used to the triangle offense. They can hit the restart this summer with lots of means for improvement.

Capspace is no guarantee to land elite players. Besides not enough of them to go around. We seen it last two times when people were all hyped to be trading for expiring's to chase super stars. I remember that one year where TMAC was a free agent. Knicks and Bulls wanted him so bad. Bulls ended up with Ron Mercer and not sure what Knicks got with their cap. Magic got TMAC and traded for Grant Hill. Second time around Bulls got Boozer and Knicks got STAT.

Not always exciting to have capspace when you miss fire and nothing left to pick over. Then that team that miss fires tries to play it safe doing one year deals to have another go at it next summers free agency. Look at Lakers. Well Howard walked and Nash trade was bad. Rockets took a while after striking out a few times. Then got desperate and did poison pill contracts for Asik and Lin. Traded for Harden. Which then finally landed Howard. But most stars stay with original teams like Duncan and Dirk.

LanceUpperCut
11-24-2014, 11:37 AM
I've never mentioned Raps fans making Knicks thread, it's only Friedtofuz and I'm still shock you guys claim him

Yean my bad it wasn't you.

giventofly
11-24-2014, 11:42 AM
The knicks are adjusting to a new system and are down two of their rotation players. However, shump has greatly improved and melo is still a top player in this league. why are they doing so poorly?I think the better question is: how are you surprised that the Knicks suck?

valade16
11-24-2014, 11:52 AM
Their second most talented player is Jose Calderon.

Shouldn't the truth be self evident in this case?

effen5
11-24-2014, 12:06 PM
All I remember in the offseason is the Knicks fan bringing up 54 win team and some knicks fan saying they would be a top 3 team in the east...:laugh:


I remember when sixers fans bragged about winning a title this year, wow I can make stuff up too

Only reason I posted that is because you called me a liar.

ewing
11-24-2014, 12:27 PM
Their second most talented player is Jose Calderon.

Shouldn't the truth be self evident in this case?


their second most talented player is JR Smith and by a long ways

pebloemer
11-24-2014, 01:08 PM
Capspace is no guarantee to land elite players. Besides not enough of them to go around. We seen it last two times when people were all hyped to be trading for expiring's to chase super stars. I remember that one year where TMAC was a free agent. Knicks and Bulls wanted him so bad. Bulls ended up with Ron Mercer and not sure what Knicks got with their cap. Magic got TMAC and traded for Grant Hill. Second time around Bulls got Boozer and Knicks got STAT.

Not always exciting to have capspace when you miss fire and nothing left to pick over. Then that team that miss fires tries to play it safe doing one year deals to have another go at it next summers free agency. Look at Lakers. Well Howard walked and Nash trade was bad. Rockets took a while after striking out a few times. Then got desperate and did poison pill contracts for Asik and Lin. Traded for Harden. Which then finally landed Howard. But most stars stay with original teams like Duncan and Dirk.

I don't disagree. But with tons of dead weight contracts eating there cap this year, a lack of significant assets to use in a trade and no chance they could contend this season, they kind of have to hang their hat on the 2015 off-season. If they fail, it could be doubly painful as the don't have a 2016 pick. This off-season is a very important window of opportunity for them. As a division rival of the Raptors, part of me wants them to improve (the Atlantic is just so embarrassing right now) and part of me wouldn't mind seeing them have to resort to Plan B/Plan C. Especially since we have their 2016 pick (although Denver has the right to swap).

valade16
11-24-2014, 01:28 PM
their second most talented player is JR Smith and by a long ways

Makes the point even more valid. A team with J.R. Smith as their second most talented player is not going anywhere.

Crackadalic
11-24-2014, 01:29 PM
Capspace is no guarantee to land elite players. Besides not enough of them to go around. We seen it last two times when people were all hyped to be trading for expiring's to chase super stars. I remember that one year where TMAC was a free agent. Knicks and Bulls wanted him so bad. Bulls ended up with Ron Mercer and not sure what Knicks got with their cap. Magic got TMAC and traded for Grant Hill. Second time around Bulls got Boozer and Knicks got STAT.

Not always exciting to have capspace when you miss fire and nothing left to pick over. Then that team that miss fires tries to play it safe doing one year deals to have another go at it next summers free agency. Look at Lakers. Well Howard walked and Nash trade was bad. Rockets took a while after striking out a few times. Then got desperate and did poison pill contracts for Asik and Lin. Traded for Harden. Which then finally landed Howard. But most stars stay with original teams like Duncan and Dirk.

I hear what your saying but nobody coming off the books is better than even the 3rd tier talent in FA. Any addition is a successful offseason.

We lack starters and two way players. Even if we don't land the big stars just getting depth that fits what where trying to do is good enough for a run

NYKnickFanatic
11-24-2014, 01:37 PM
I think the better question is: how are you surprised that the Knicks suck?

Exactly. It's like being a Cubs or Bears fan and having high expectations.

pebloemer
11-24-2014, 01:38 PM
I hear what your saying but nobody coming off the books is better than even the 3rd tier talent in FA. Any addition is a successful offseason.

We lack starters and two way players. Even if we don't land the big stars just getting depth that fits what where trying to do is good enough for a run

A top 5-10 draft pick could really help as well.

NYKnickFanatic
11-24-2014, 01:39 PM
its always next year for knicks fans...for how many years now?

Seems like Lakers fans have been saying the same thing in recent years...

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-24-2014, 02:38 PM
Seems like Lakers fans have been saying the same thing in recent years...

yes but you guys at least the last decade

GiantsSwaGG
11-24-2014, 03:06 PM
Only reason I posted that is because you called me a liar.

Yeah I was wrong, should of known Knicks Boogie and number 37 would of said some dumb **** like that

Legitimate
11-24-2014, 03:10 PM
Knicks suck man, they should just trade melo and start tanking, oh wait..... they already are tanking!

Jamiecballer
11-24-2014, 03:16 PM
Their second most talented player is Jose Calderon.

Shouldn't the truth be self evident in this case?

second best player, yes.

valade16
11-24-2014, 03:39 PM
second best player, yes.

Yeah that's what I meant.

NYKnickFanatic
11-24-2014, 03:42 PM
Someone explain how this Knicks-Raptors beef started...

Legitimate
11-24-2014, 03:56 PM
Someone explain how this Knicks-Raptors beef started...

I just joined the argument once the lightning in a bottle raps thread was created, it was a pretty stupid thread....

Hawkeye15
11-24-2014, 04:18 PM
lack of talent

albertajaysfan
11-24-2014, 04:36 PM
TOR is off to their best start in franchise history, best record in the NBA, just won at CLE last night... and yet TOR fans are making threads about why NY is struggling, breaking down their cap space next summer, and in the Knick forum talking about Bargs calf strain...lol

You really can't make this stuff up... must be some Napoleon complex...

Let's be real. That one fan you are referring to does not represent the whole fan base. His infatuation with the Knicks puzzles me as well.

I participate in these discussions because if I pick carefully who I respond to it can lead to a basketball discussion :)

albertajaysfan
11-24-2014, 04:37 PM
Someone explain how this Knicks-Raptors beef started...

One of the great mysteries....lol

GiantsSwaGG
11-24-2014, 05:14 PM
Someone explain how this Knicks-Raptors beef started...

Friedtofuz

2-ONE-5
11-24-2014, 05:39 PM
pelase it was the knicks fan not givng them any respect and basically calling the div title last year a fluke

deaner
11-24-2014, 05:49 PM
Someone explain how this Knicks-Raptors beef started...

A bunch of your posters started yapping about how canada, Toronto, And the raptors suck. There were a bunch of uneducated comments about free agents never wanting to come here and so on. It was the typical New York attitude that rubbed many the wrong way. Add to that crazy statements about how deep and skilled the Knicks were and at the same time not thinking the raps were a playoff team didn't sit well on our side.

For me it was the city and country comments, along with clearly misplaced values in team strengths. Knick fans still will not listen to our historic knowledge of Bargnani and Jose.

ILLUSIONIST^248
11-24-2014, 06:44 PM
Have the Knicks ever not struggled?

jimm120
11-24-2014, 06:54 PM
I think it was a LEGIT question to ask if Toronto was as good as they were last year.

And even with their record so far, I still say it was "lightning in a bottle". Now, that does NOT mean they're a bad team. Most knicks fans and fans of other teams pretty much had them as a 4-7 team. Just not as good as last year.

And I expect that to happen. I just don't trust Lowry to be as good as he's been. And he's the main catalyst (along with Derozan developing further).

Now back to the Knicks: We shouldn't have expected 50+ win seasons.

Our offense got worse overall, but it is still better now for the 4th quarter than it used to be in the old Woodson offense.

Our defense has worsened, as expected. As much as Tyson is declining (and he IS. His best years were 2010, 2011, and 2012), he was still a very highly rated player in Real Plus Minus and other stats. He might not have blocked shots and he might have slowed down and allowed more players into the lane without altering their shot (which was his thing), but he still did those things. PLUS, Woodson having hims witch to the PG every 3 defensive set did NOT help the team nor him.

So yeah, worse defense and Calderon only helps the offense (which will get better).

That said, I still stick to my original prognosis of 45-47 wins as long as the offense gets on track in late December or mid January. If the offense doesn't progress (and it has slowly been getting better), then I guess they're the 30-40 win team they're playing as.

FriedTofuz
11-24-2014, 07:01 PM
Friedtofuz

LOL I havent even brought up the raptors in this thread and people are blaming me?
Im now the new scapegoat cus I did not mention anywhere at all in this thread about the raptors.
To Raptor fans also scapegoating me and saying Im obsssed with the knicks, you need to be more considerate and see that Im not the only endorsing this kind of up-roar, so stop with the scapegoat.

Also, it was never me in particular. The knick fanbase has been critical of the raptors all along.

Saying
-lowry just got his money
-winning the atlantic was a fluke
-the east sucks
-the east is wide open and the knicks are healthy and will win the division.

That's what caused the uproar, and the fact that the knicks lost their pick to the raptors, which is likely going to be a lottery pick. I dont care how good you think this team can be, they've had the easiest schedule in the nba. No one is going to sign on a team that has no chance for a championship or to compeat. The knicks every year operate on wishful thinking. Ifyou go back to the predictions thread in the knicks forum people were saying ECF, 50 wins and even a knicks podcast thought they could contend. With a 4-10 start, clearly that is delusional.

FriedTofuz
11-24-2014, 07:02 PM
Let's be real. That one fan you are referring to does not represent the whole fan base. His infatuation with the Knicks puzzles me as well.

I participate in these discussions because if I pick carefully who I respond to it can lead to a basketball discussion :)

I didnt start posting about the raptors until my last post to defend myself. Clearly it isnt me alone who's "trolling" the knicks. People in this thread are bringing up the raptors and I didnt do that until I just defended myself. So please, dont continue with the scapegoating.

FriedTofuz
11-24-2014, 07:04 PM
There's nothing wrong with another team's fan making a thread about another team. I make threads about players from different teams all the time. Secondly, please stop scapegoating me as " it's just one guy"
All you other raptor fans have been arguing with the knicks because of their opinions about lowry, the division and the team. so Please, instead of continuing this childish behaviour, own up to your behaviour. It isnt just me. It's a lot of you all bringing up the raptors. I may be one who made knick threads but that doesnt mean im trolling.

BHF
11-24-2014, 07:37 PM
Except when in every post you mention the knicks in some way, or when you make more knicks threads than the knick fans themselves. Or when you go to their forum after they lose a game and ask them a stupid question bait them just to get them to rage. But yeah you are not trolling or obsessed with them at all we all got it wrong.

albertajaysfan
11-24-2014, 07:37 PM
I didnt troll, I made a thread that's created a topic for discussion without posting anything after creating the thread. That isnt trolling, if you feel otherwise, there's a report button. Dont derail threads and constantly say how Im obssessed with the knicks, I make threads for discussion, and that's exactly what this thread has brought.

I don't think you are trolling but you do seem to have an obsession with the Knicks. Don't worry the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. ;)

albertajaysfan
11-24-2014, 07:41 PM
Most of my fellow knick fan's are unsufferable. i've been preaching doom and gloom on our knicks forum not because i enjoy it, but because it's what i see and what i believe. this team is built to fail. melo cannot carry a team on either side of the ball. he needs a real PG to get the team involved, he needs at least 2 great defenders to cover up for him. Melo is great when he is asked to score and rebound. not when he's being asked to defend and pass.

Phil has a system, this team is not built for that system. Melo, Shumps, Dalemebert, Smith, these are guys that appear early to work in the system. Phil has major flexibility going forward and knows better than anyone what this team needs. No point trying to fit square pegs in round holes. Maybe a few more guys will get it in this system, and we will be only a few pieces away from a sold 9 man rotation that can win in the triangle. Until then, with a number of prizes in the lottery, there is no reason for me to want to be in the 10-16 range when there are a number of awesome players that we can draft.

Your view is spot on. Very realistic of you. Kudos.

FriedTofuz
11-24-2014, 07:41 PM
Except when in every post you mention the knicks in some way, or when you make more knicks threads than the knick fans themselves. Or when you go to their forum after they lose a game and ask them a stupid question bait them just to get them to rage. But yeah you are not trolling or obsessed with them at all we all got it wrong.

Okay tht is not true. I do not mention the knicks in every single one of my posts. you're ridiculous.
I have made many many threads in my time, if you want to take a look, visit my profile. I have made knick threads, so what? I havent trolled. I dont go to their forum after they lose a game, I do not even go there often. but when I do go there ,regardless of win or lose situation,I do not ask a stupid question, that's subjective. Also, you clearly know a lot about my posts in the knicks forum, Im guessing you've had to be there to know this. If they're sensitive to anyone talking about their team, that's not my problem, that's clearly an internal issue that they need to work out amongst themselves. They're biased anyways, you expect them not to get angry? I expect a mature person not to get angry but it's not like that around here. you're a baiter, you're creating arguments with other posters.

andy2518
11-24-2014, 07:58 PM
Give them sometime. Phil knows what he is doing, he just walked into a nightmare of a situation. Once Amare comes off the books things should begin to look up.

albertajaysfan
11-24-2014, 07:59 PM
I didnt start posting about the raptors until my last post to defend myself. Clearly it isnt me alone who's "trolling" the knicks. People in this thread are bringing up the raptors and I didnt do that until I just defended myself. So please, dont continue with the scapegoating.

You are completely missing my point. I never said you were trolling just that you have a bizarre obsession with the Knicks which is supported by how often you talk about them. You evn bring them up on a semi regular basis in the Raptors forum.

FriedTofuz
11-24-2014, 08:07 PM
You are completely missing my point. I never said you were trolling just that you have a bizarre obsession with the Knicks which is supported by how often you talk about them. You evn bring them up on a semi regular basis in the Raptors forum.

I dont bring them up, I bring up the topic of the raptors receiving their 2016 pick, likely to be a lotto pick which isnt unrealistic considering they are one of the worst teams in the league atm.

koreancabbage
11-24-2014, 08:27 PM
I dont bring them up, I bring up the topic of the raptors receiving their 2016 pick, likely to be a lotto pick which isnt unrealistic considering they are one of the worst teams in the league atm.

when everyone's perception of you is that you do bring them up, on any forum, and you don't even realize it.... that is a problem

BHF
11-24-2014, 08:29 PM
we need effen5 to investigate lol

Cal827
11-24-2014, 08:33 PM
Well, on the bright side.. .Most Raptor-Knick fan interactions have been mutually positive in Tofuz's threads, gotta give him credit there :laugh2:

east fb knicks
11-24-2014, 08:48 PM
horrible troll thread:laugh2:

NYKnickFanatic
11-24-2014, 09:04 PM
A bunch of your posters started yapping about how canada, Toronto, And the raptors suck. There were a bunch of uneducated comments about free agents never wanting to come here and so on. It was the typical New York attitude that rubbed many the wrong way. Add to that crazy statements about how deep and skilled the Knicks were and at the same time not thinking the raps were a playoff team didn't sit well on our side.

For me it was the city and country comments, along with clearly misplaced values in team strengths. Knick fans still will not listen to our historic knowledge of Bargnani and Jose.

I see. Well Toronto is a great city. Canada as a whole is pretty awesome. I know a lot of Americans like to crack jokes on Canada/Canadians, I honestly don't know why, though.

As for not thinking the Raptors were a playoff team, that's crazy and that's not what I thought, personally. In the "who will win the Atlantic Division" thread, I said it would be Toronto, followed by BK and then NY.

To be honest, I didn't expect them to be as good as they have been, leading the Eastern Conference, but I did expect them to win the division easily.

blahblahyoutoo
11-24-2014, 09:46 PM
Oh so you are denying your posts in the knicks forum :laugh: ok. Link? Just go into the knicks game threads and you are there lol whatever enjoy the rest of the night.

i know how to search my own posts. i'm axing which ones you consider troll posts (other than my "knicks is back!" posts, which i'm just mocking amare).

my posts are no worse than what knicks fans post, except i have a heat avatar so it must be trolling right?
is this the same thing as only black ppl allowed to say the n-word, but when a white guy says it, it's racist?

koreancabbage
11-24-2014, 11:12 PM
i know how to search my own posts. i'm axing which ones you consider troll posts (other than my "knicks is back!" posts, which i'm just mocking amare).

my posts are no worse than what knicks fans post, except i have a heat avatar so it must be trolling right?
is this the same thing as only black ppl allowed to say the n-word, but when a white guy says it, it's racist?

apparently, its okay for the Knicks fans to say the Knicks team suck but when other fans say they suck, its not okay.

effen5
11-25-2014, 12:13 AM
we need effen5 to investigate lol
I'm on it :)

albertajaysfan
11-25-2014, 12:49 AM
I dont bring them up, I bring up the topic of the raptors receiving their 2016 pick, likely to be a lotto pick which isnt unrealistic considering they are one of the worst teams in the league atm.

:rolleyes:

albertajaysfan
11-25-2014, 12:53 AM
I see. Well Toronto is a great city. Canada as a whole is pretty awesome. I know a lot of Americans like to crack jokes on Canada/Canadians, I honestly don't know why, though.

As for not thinking the Raptors were a playoff team, that's crazy and that's not what I thought, personally. In the "who will win the Atlantic Division" thread, I said it would be Toronto, followed by BK and then NY.

To be honest, I didn't expect them to be as good as they have been, leading the Eastern Conference, but I did expect them to win the division easily.

Some of the other Knicks fans, unfortunately a vocal minority must be irritating for you.

I have said this numerous times it will be interesting to see how the offseason plays out for you guys. Not going to lie though I am hoping for a giant turd only because of the fact the Raps most likely get your pick. Raps could get a lottery pick in 2016 if Phil strikes out in free agency.

Goose17
11-26-2014, 08:10 PM
They've had a terrible start, Melo is averaging a career low in points (with the exception of his rookie and sophomore years) and their offensive production is absolutely terrible. They don't have any bigs capable of passing or with any real awareness offensively. Their "best" offensive role players look completely lost in this system, imho they lack the basketball I.Q to be a part of this offense (looking at you J.R)

Crackadalic
11-26-2014, 11:34 PM
They've had a terrible start, Melo is averaging a career low in points (with the exception of his rookie and sophomore years) and their offensive production is absolutely terrible. They don't have any bigs capable of passing or with any real awareness offensively. Their "best" offensive role players look completely lost in this system, imho they lack the basketball I.Q to be a part of this offense (looking at you J.R)

I agree. Melo is shooting a higher efficiency this season 47%. He's playing the team game. Problem is we have role players and one other starter

Gibby23
11-26-2014, 11:42 PM
They are not good

Goose17
11-27-2014, 09:08 AM
Should they abandon the triangle? I'm not sure they have the right players for it to be honest.

Cal827
11-27-2014, 11:00 PM
I dont bring them up, I bring up the topic of the raptors receiving their 2016 pick, likely to be a lotto pick which isnt unrealistic considering they are one of the worst teams in the league atm.

:laugh:

You are aware of the conditions of that happening, right? For us to get a lottery pick from New York, the Denver Nuggets would also have to be bad, as they have the right to swap pick from the Carmelo trade. Possible, but having both of them do terribly, is unlikely (especially since the Knicks play in the East, and will have a ton of Cap room (like us), to revamp the team).

Cal827
11-27-2014, 11:02 PM
The Center.

Also, we will have to see it since both have been fighting injuries, but what do you guys think of Calderon-Carmelo. From Seeing Calderon in Toronto, he really likes to have the ball in his hand and have the offense run through him. Carmelo is the main scorer, but is ball dominant.

Curious from Knick fans, can Melo become more of a spot up shooter to allow their respective games to blend, or do you worry that it'll become a serious issue?

Crackadalic
11-27-2014, 11:58 PM
The Center.

Also, we will have to see it since both have been fighting injuries, but what do you guys think of Calderon-Carmelo. From Seeing Calderon in Toronto, he really likes to have the ball in his hand and have the offense run through him. Carmelo is the main scorer, but is ball dominant.

Curious from Knick fans, can Melo become more of a spot up shooter to allow their respective games to blend, or do you worry that it'll become a serious issue?

Well Melo is shooting 47% and 42 from 3 with shane larkin. His numbers as a catch and shoot player is even more lethal. Melo has a history of playing well with veteran point guards Miller/AI/Bilups/Kidd so no doubt he don't mind Jose having the ball to get him better spots

Melo will have his iso game but thats part of the offense. Its getting an iso set within the ball moving instead of dump the ball to melo

My only worry is Amare. Dude is such a blackhole it makes Melo look like cp3 in terms of passing

nycericanguy
11-28-2014, 10:34 AM
The Center.

Also, we will have to see it since both have been fighting injuries, but what do you guys think of Calderon-Carmelo. From Seeing Calderon in Toronto, he really likes to have the ball in his hand and have the offense run through him. Carmelo is the main scorer, but is ball dominant.

Curious from Knick fans, can Melo become more of a spot up shooter to allow their respective games to blend, or do you worry that it'll become a serious issue?

I see this said a lot but i haven't seen it at all. Not yet at least... also looking at his career USG% it's very low so it doesn't suggest a ball dominant guard. Last year in DAL they had one of the best offenses in the league with him running the show also...

He's a lethal shooter and very composed is what I've seen... one of the best shooters in history. He was actually playing 2 guard a lot with Prigs in a two PG lineup in DAL with Prigs handling the ball more. I haven't seen anything even resembling ball dominant from him.

I think he's fine as our PG for the next 2-3 years. But we need a two way big man... our bigs just aren't good enough. And Amare is just awful, I don't care what his offensive numbers are... he's clueless on D and cost us that DAL game.

Amare being "healthy" the last 2 years I think has been a horrible thing for NY. Ever since 2011 the Knicks have had a dominant winning % when Amare was hurt, and have been a lottery team when he plays. It's an amazing difference and too big of a sample size to ignore.

nycericanguy
11-28-2014, 10:43 AM
Knicks record last 4 years

Without Amare 63-27

With Amare 64-77

YashBoone
11-28-2014, 11:02 AM
apparently, its okay for the Knicks fans to say the Knicks team suck but when other fans say they suck, its not okay.


blahblahyoutoo comes in the knick game threads everytime the knicks are struggling late in games or after games, right when knicks fans are most frustrated, and makes smart *** comments to intentionally mock us ...

Thats trolling.

Its whatever really. I just ignore him. But lets get real blahblah ... you know what your doing.

D-Leethal
11-28-2014, 12:01 PM
Should they abandon the triangle? I'm not sure they have the right players for it to be honest.

None of these guys are here long term anyway. I think its clear we are all-in with the triangle, Phil just hasn't had a chance to acquire the right guys for the system yet - his hands are tied until all of the contracts come off the book this year.

The fact that we are feeding Quincy Acy and Sam Dalembert the ball at the high post and asking them to find cutters or make a move offensively (what you ask bigs to do in the triangle), when their games are not suited for that at all, tells me we are going to find personnel who fit the system and not fit the system to the personnel.

I was hopeful we would at least be competitive and make the playoffs this year, based on our late season surge last season (the same way we carried our 18-6 finish into a 54 win season the year before), but at this point its clear we just don't have many good players and the players we do have don't fit the system we are married to.

With a lotto pick and a boatload of cap space for Phil to work with, I'm hopeful for the future, but this season is over for me. Suck as bad as we can and get a great pick is the best thing we can do at this point, I would even consider sitting Melo for much of this season like the Heat did with Wade the year they got the #2 pick.

D-Leethal
11-28-2014, 12:07 PM
I think Calderon is a great fit for Melo. Not quite at that level, but the same type of guard Billups was offensively for Melo. Not really a pick and roll guy, but brilliant offensive player who will get Melo the ball where he needs it and space the floor with his knock down shooting, also smart enough to not let Melo over-iso and will swing the ball elsewhere when it needs to be swung. Melo seems to trust him too, based on things he has said about him. Haven't had a chance to see them play together enough yet to say anything definitively.

And the stat with Amare is crazy. I have said this for years - even when he is scoring 16ppg on ungodly efficiency in limited minutes like we have seen in the past, he has never made this team better since Melo has been here. The team doesn't rally around him even when he is playing well, and he is the biggest black hole I have ever seen when he gets the ball. Nobody else is touching it once it hits Amare. Not sure how he has escaped the selfish label when guys like Melo and JR get crucified for it, but he is the most selfish one dimensional scorer on this team. JR is probably our best pick and roll player and Melo likes to shoot but is more than willing to pass to teammates (until they start failing miserably and he decides to take over). Amare looks at the rim and the rim only once he gets the ball.

D-Leethal
11-28-2014, 12:10 PM
Amare and Tyson are two big reasons I am a skeptic of the "TS% > all" mentality on this forum. Amare came in and was scoring 14ppg on something like 70% shooting two years back and our team fell off a cliff. Tyson and his league leading offensive efficiency went down and we went on a 16-2 stretch to finish the season. Melo and JR (two guys who tend to get clowned on for their efficiency) spearheaded the best offense the Knicks have seen in ages and it was at its best when both those guys (Amare and Tyson) were off the court.

The curious case of Lamarcus Aldridge and the positive impact his mid range chucking has on his teams offense is another reason I question that mentality.

nycericanguy
11-28-2014, 12:24 PM
I think Calderon is a great fit for Melo. Not quite at that level, but the same type of guard Billups was offensively for Melo. Not really a pick and roll guy, but brilliant offensive player who will get Melo the ball where he needs it and space the floor with his knock down shooting, also smart enough to not let Melo over-iso and will swing the ball elsewhere when it needs to be swung. Melo seems to trust him too, based on things he has said about him. Haven't had a chance to see them play together enough yet to say anything definitively.

And the stat with Amare is crazy. I have said this for years - even when he is scoring 16ppg on ungodly efficiency in limited minutes like we have seen in the past, he has never made this team better since Melo has been here. The team doesn't rally around him even when he is playing well, and he is the biggest black hole I have ever seen when he gets the ball. Nobody else is touching it once it hits Amare. Not sure how he has escaped the selfish label when guys like Melo and JR get crucified for it, but he is the most selfish one dimensional scorer on this team. JR is probably our best pick and roll player and Melo likes to shoot but is more than willing to pass to teammates (until they start failing miserably and he decides to take over). Amare looks at the rim and the rim only once he gets the ball.

even when he does try to pass, he's just a god awful passer.

DAL double teamed him in the post and he kept throwing the ball out of bounds over everyone's head. 3 times he did that... he's only good for scoring, and even then you have to cater to him so much just to get 12 points... it's just not worth it anymore.

When he was scoring 22-26ppg it might have been and he was an overall positive... but not for a 10-12 points.

nycericanguy
11-28-2014, 12:26 PM
Amare and Tyson are two big reasons I am a skeptic of the "TS% > all" mentality on this forum. Amare came in and was scoring 14ppg on something like 70% shooting two years back and our team fell off a cliff. Tyson and his league leading offensive efficiency went down and we went on a 16-2 stretch to finish the season. Melo and JR (two guys who tend to get clowned on for their efficiency) spearheaded the best offense the Knicks have seen in ages and it was at its best when both those guys (Amare and Tyson) were off the court.

The curious case of Lamarcus Aldridge and the positive impact his mid range chucking has on his teams offense is another reason I question that mentality.

Tyson's efficiency comes from him not taking shots unless they are dunks... and the fact that he's great on the P&R lobs... that is a unique skill. Gotta take it within context though, we all know he's not a go to player.

Amare is efficient... but he's a blackhole and awful at every other facet of the game.

That 16-2 stretch without Tyson was just a fluke though, and Kmart just happened to play his best ball during that stretch. Every stat shows we were a better team with Tyson over the years than without. Same can't be said for Amare.

JAZZNC
11-28-2014, 12:37 PM
Because they just aren't talented. Really not that complicated. Add that to the fact their star doesnt play winning basketball and you have a struggling team.

ewing
11-28-2014, 12:39 PM
I think Calderon is a great fit for Melo. Not quite at that level, but the same type of guard Billups was offensively for Melo. Not really a pick and roll guy, but brilliant offensive player who will get Melo the ball where he needs it and space the floor with his knock down shooting, also smart enough to not let Melo over-iso and will swing the ball elsewhere when it needs to be swung. Melo seems to trust him too, based on things he has said about him. Haven't had a chance to see them play together enough yet to say anything definitively.

And the stat with Amare is crazy. I have said this for years - even when he is scoring 16ppg on ungodly efficiency in limited minutes like we have seen in the past, he has never made this team better since Melo has been here. The team doesn't rally around him even when he is playing well, and he is the biggest black hole I have ever seen when he gets the ball. Nobody else is touching it once it hits Amare. Not sure how he has escaped the selfish label when guys like Melo and JR get crucified for it, but he is the most selfish one dimensional scorer on this team. JR is probably our best pick and roll player and Melo likes to shoot but is more than willing to pass to teammates (until they start failing miserably and he decides to take over). Amare looks at the rim and the rim only once he gets the ball.


Amare is a black hole and he flat doesn't fit. The guys the knicks have do not cover for what he lacks at all and don't play to what he does well. you put guys like Melo and Shump on the front line with Amare and you are screwed. He needs long versatile help defenders on the front line with him and is best with penetrating guards . The knicks don't have those guys. Honestly our knicks have never done a good job of matching players. Look at the Mavs they landed Tyson and put Parson next to him with Dirk. That a dream situation for him. Two, long jump shooting bigs that spread the floor, are good with the ball, and give him space to do what he does.

Jamiecballer
11-28-2014, 01:39 PM
I see this said a lot but i haven't seen it at all. Not yet at least... also looking at his career USG% it's very low so it doesn't suggest a ball dominant guard. Last year in DAL they had one of the best offenses in the league with him running the show also...

He's a lethal shooter and very composed is what I've seen... one of the best shooters in history. He was actually playing 2 guard a lot with Prigs in a two PG lineup in DAL with Prigs handling the ball more. I haven't seen anything even resembling ball dominant from him.

I think he's fine as our PG for the next 2-3 years. But we need a two way big man... our bigs just aren't good enough. And Amare is just awful, I don't care what his offensive numbers are... he's clueless on D and cost us that DAL game.

Amare being "healthy" the last 2 years I think has been a horrible thing for NY. Ever since 2011 the Knicks have had a dominant winning % when Amare was hurt, and have been a lottery team when he plays. It's an amazing difference and too big of a sample size to ignore.

I think Calderon will be very good for both the triangle and Melo. He does take a VERY patient approach preferring to wait for something to open up before committing but he will be like a control valve preventing Carmelo Anthony from dominating the ball at the expense of team play. Real good fit.

east fb knicks
11-28-2014, 01:59 PM
I don't get the amare and bargs hate those guys might be the reason we end up with okafor:D

DoMeFavors
11-28-2014, 04:10 PM
Amare isn't used right, Dantoni used Amare right. You need to put him in pick and rolls with shooters around him. I think Amare ends up in Golden State next yr with Kerr.

blahblahyoutoo
11-28-2014, 04:29 PM
blahblahyoutoo comes in the knick game threads everytime the knicks are struggling late in games or after games, right when knicks fans are most frustrated, and makes smart *** comments to intentionally mock us ...

Thats trolling.

Its whatever really. I just ignore him. But lets get real blahblah ... you know what your doing.

again, link to troll post.

Sactown
11-28-2014, 05:53 PM
They're a bad team that lacks talent, learning a new system with a new head coach.. Why would anyone expect them to win? Outside of Melo the talent drop off is too insurmountable

TrueFan420
11-28-2014, 11:21 PM
Amare isn't used right, Dantoni used Amare right. You need to put him in pick and rolls with shooters around him. I think Amare ends up in Golden State next yr with Kerr.

I seriously doubt that. Maybe if it's vet min but even then our front court is set.

DoMeFavors
11-28-2014, 11:38 PM
Knicks fans are lucky Melo was loyal, this was a bad roster he chose to return to.

bucketss
11-28-2014, 11:42 PM
Knicks fans are lucky Melo was loyal, this was a bad roster he chose to return to.

he was chasing paper, dont get it twisted

blahblahyoutoo
11-29-2014, 12:01 AM
he was chasing paper, dont get it twisted

unpossible. melo is all about the winning, not the money. he said so hisself. that's why he chose NY. it gives him the best chance to win multiple championships.

DoMeFavors
11-29-2014, 12:17 AM
unpossible. melo is all about the winning, not the money. he said so hisself. that's why he chose NY. it gives him the best chance to win multiple championships.

an article came out today that Melo seemed like he cared more about where he was living said he didn't want to live in Texas or Chicago.

DoMeFavors
11-29-2014, 12:28 AM
Everyone is on a 1 year deal basically, nobody has future on team so its hard for them to care that much I guess.

DarkKnight
11-29-2014, 12:31 AM
:around-the-world::ballspinning:

Crackadalic
11-29-2014, 01:12 AM
Good getting closer to that top 3 pick. Once the JR/Amare/BArgs of the world is off the team than I'll be happy moving forward. Tired of these so called "diva" players that can't even focus on basketball foh

DoMeFavors
11-29-2014, 01:39 AM
Good getting closer to that top 3 pick. Once the JR/Amare/BArgs of the world is off the team than I'll be happy moving forward. Tired of these so called "diva" players that can't even focus on basketball foh
I guess but you don't just suddenly get a group of 15 non flawed players.

GrkGawdofWalkz
11-29-2014, 10:07 AM
Lack of talent, the ability to defend in the post and block. They are a huge mess. They are also instituting the Triangle with a rookie coach who has no experience. They probably are a year or two away before they are ready to compete. Sorry Melo.

east fb knicks
11-29-2014, 11:18 AM
an article came out today that Melo seemed like he cared more about where he was living said he didn't want to live in Texas or Chicago.

those places suck would you:D

cssdmark
11-29-2014, 11:32 AM
They are not struggling, they are tanking so they can try and get a lottery pick with the only first round pick they have this decade.

east fb knicks
11-29-2014, 11:37 AM
They are not struggling, they are tanking so they can try and get a lottery pick with the only first round pick they have this decade.
stop making sense bro you know people around here don't like that;)

FriedTofuz
11-29-2014, 01:32 PM
unpossible. Melo is all about the winning, not the money. He said so hisself. That's why he chose ny. It gives him the best chance to win multiple championships.
lol

FriedTofuz
11-29-2014, 01:34 PM
stop making sense bro you know people around here don't like that;)
no they just are that bad..

likemystylez
11-29-2014, 02:18 PM
They are not struggling, they are tanking so they can try and get a lottery pick with the only first round pick they have this decade.

I kinda wish carmello would have gone to another team that could put his skill set to good use- if the knicks are gonna pay a guy 100 million to come in and tank- whats the point

likemystylez
11-29-2014, 02:20 PM
Good getting closer to that top 3 pick. Once the JR/Amare/BArgs of the world is off the team than I'll be happy moving forward. Tired of these so called "diva" players that can't even focus on basketball foh

its amazing that a few yrs ago- tyson chandler turned down the warriors offer to go and join the knicks- Kerr on the other hand was a little bit smarter

D-Leethal
11-29-2014, 02:45 PM
I kinda wish carmello would have gone to another team that could put his skill set to good use- if the knicks are gonna pay a guy 100 million to come in and tank- whats the point

He signed a 5 year deal. This is a transition year. Key word year, not years.

Cal827
11-29-2014, 02:50 PM
Everyone is on a 1 year deal basically, nobody has future on team so its hard for them to care that much I guess.

Seems possible, but you would think that some of these guys would be playing their hearts out. Some of these guys are facing major pay cuts in the offseason (Amar'e hasn't been that bad, and I'm sure he already knows that he's facing a cut due to his injury problems, Dalembert, Smith, Bargnani)

I guess some of them will be roster fillers or go overseas in the next year.

D-Leethal
11-29-2014, 02:53 PM
Seems possible, but you would think that some of these guys would be playing their hearts out. Some of these guys are facing major pay cuts in the offseason (Amar'e hasn't been that bad, and I'm sure he already knows that he's facing a cut due to his injury problems, Dalembert, Smith, Bargnani)

I guess some of them will be roster fillers or go overseas in the next year.

True that you expect them to play well in contract years but its tough to get them to buy into a team concept and buy-in to starting a process and implementing a system they know they will not be apart of for the long haul.

jakub
11-29-2014, 02:54 PM
They are a bad basketball team. Did anyone really predict them to do well?

D-Leethal
11-29-2014, 03:02 PM
They are a bad basketball team. Did anyone really predict them to do well?

Most Knick fans were hopeful we would capitalize on our late surge to end last season and have a solid year but we have all but given up on that thought. Getting a top 5 pick going into this offseason with all these scrubs expiring and a boatload of cap space opening up is the best thing that can happen to us. New beginnings next year, this year is shot.

DoMeFavors
11-29-2014, 03:08 PM
Seems possible, but you would think that some of these guys would be playing their hearts out. Some of these guys are facing major pay cuts in the offseason (Amar'e hasn't been that bad, and I'm sure he already knows that he's facing a cut due to his injury problems, Dalembert, Smith, Bargnani)

I guess some of them will be roster fillers or go overseas in the next year.

Depends in raptors situation it worked as a benefit here, it just seems in NY that Knicks players are so used to losing and the team has developed a losing culture among their players.

deaner
11-29-2014, 04:36 PM
It boggles my mind that Knick fans think they are in a good place... "Next year we have all these players coming off the books and a potential top draft pick."

Please realize, every team gets picks. Team rarely get better from the draft. All the draft does is supplement young talent usually. Yes, there are a few exceptions. Knicks haven't proven anything in drafting talent in the draft. And if your hopes are in the draft... There's bad news... You have less picks than most teams going forward which puts you at a disadvantage. Melo should also be of concern. He hasn't shown himself to be a leader in my books. He's in the payroll for many years going forward. If you expect to let all these guys with expirings walk, your cap space is eaten heavily by the first player listed. Melo and 48M or whatever isn't as much as you would want to build this championship team you keep discussing. Salaries will be really jumping next season. A good 10M player this year might command 16-17 because teams have space with only a small portion of talent to spend on. Good teams will make moves at the deadline for bird rights of the players that want to move forward with. I don't see any assets the Knicks can use in trade.

Also, looking forward to a clean sheet is not as good as poster seem to be leading on. Teams have built something and will be growing not starting from scratch. For me, Phil isn't doing the job you guys had talked about. Culture is nothing... Talent might be worse than last year. What has he accomplished?? Anyone could sit and wait for players to come off the books. Dolan might have been able to do SOMETHING. Anything. There's still a good chance the Knicks are digging a deeper hole next year rather than building anything of value. Time will tell. Spending tax money for this roster is embarrassing.

blahblahyoutoo
11-29-2014, 05:21 PM
He signed a 5 year deal. This is a transition year. Key word year, not years.

so next year, y'all get a bunch of new guys and then y'all gon say they need a year to learn the triangle offense. then the following year, your lone draft pick rookie will still be learning the game and his role and position. so then we're up to year 3 and carmelo at this point has gained 45 pounds and is old and out of shape.

blahblahyoutoo
11-29-2014, 05:25 PM
It boggles my mind that Knick fans think they are in a good place... "Next year we have all these players coming off the books and a potential top draft pick."

Please realize, every team gets picks. Team rarely get better from the draft. All the draft does is supplement young talent usually. Yes, there are a few exceptions. Knicks haven't proven anything in drafting talent in the draft. And if your hopes are in the draft... There's bad news... You have less picks than most teams going forward which puts you at a disadvantage. Melo should also be of concern. He hasn't shown himself to be a leader in my books. He's in the payroll for many years going forward. If you expect to let all these guys with expirings walk, your cap space is eaten heavily by the first player listed. Melo and 48M or whatever isn't as much as you would want to build this championship team you keep discussing. Salaries will be really jumping next season. A good 10M player this year might command 16-17 because teams have space with only a small portion of talent to spend on. Good teams will make moves at the deadline for bird rights of the players that want to move forward with. I don't see any assets the Knicks can use in trade.

Also, looking forward to a clean sheet is not as good as poster seem to be leading on. Teams have built something and will be growing not starting from scratch. For me, Phil isn't doing the job you guys had talked about. Culture is nothing... Talent might be worse than last year. What has he accomplished?? Anyone could sit and wait for players to come off the books. Dolan might have been able to do SOMETHING. Anything. There's still a good chance the Knicks are digging a deeper hole next year rather than building anything of value. Time will tell. Spending tax money for this roster is embarrassing.

knicks have done decent in the draft in recent years. ariza, frye, hill, lee.
they just aren't patient enough to develop that talent, but instead chase the big names and trade guys away.

they got rid of crawford and zebo who are beasting out west.

FriedTofuz
11-29-2014, 05:29 PM
It boggles my mind that Knick fans think they are in a good place... "Next year we have all these players coming off the books and a potential top draft pick."

Please realize, every team gets picks. Team rarely get better from the draft. All the draft does is supplement young talent usually. Yes, there are a few exceptions. Knicks haven't proven anything in drafting talent in the draft. And if your hopes are in the draft... There's bad news... You have less picks than most teams going forward which puts you at a disadvantage. Melo should also be of concern. He hasn't shown himself to be a leader in my books. He's in the payroll for many years going forward. If you expect to let all these guys with expirings walk, your cap space is eaten heavily by the first player listed. Melo and 48M or whatever isn't as much as you would want to build this championship team you keep discussing. Salaries will be really jumping next season. A good 10M player this year might command 16-17 because teams have space with only a small portion of talent to spend on. Good teams will make moves at the deadline for bird rights of the players that want to move forward with. I don't see any assets the Knicks can use in trade.

Also, looking forward to a clean sheet is not as good as poster seem to be leading on. Teams have built something and will be growing not starting from scratch. For me, Phil isn't doing the job you guys had talked about. Culture is nothing... Talent might be worse than last year. What has he accomplished?? Anyone could sit and wait for players to come off the books. Dolan might have been able to do SOMETHING. Anything. There's still a good chance the Knicks are digging a deeper hole next year rather than building anything of value. Time will tell. Spending tax money for this roster is embarrassing.
This is exactly what the fans are not understanding. they think you can hit the reset button on game and instantly have a chance at becoming great. No team becomes instantly better. They say the same thing every single year. Just last year they said " we'll have a good coach and be healthy and we'll win the division" They have a healthy melo and are still at the bottom of the conference. If they didnt have melo, how much worse could they be? worse than the sixers? They just dont get it.

D-Leethal
11-29-2014, 08:51 PM
so next year, y'all get a bunch of new guys and then y'all gon say they need a year to learn the triangle offense. then the following year, your lone draft pick rookie will still be learning the game and his role and position. so then we're up to year 3 and carmelo at this point has gained 45 pounds and is old and out of shape.

Those are your words, not mine. We won't need a few years if the pieces fit. When the pieces fit the teams take off running like Gasol-Kobe and Boston big 3.

I'm not convinced that were gonna keep our draft pick, but if we do I'm all for it. We could flip it for the next disgruntled star just like Cleveland did. We could not, we have options.

D-Leethal
11-29-2014, 08:54 PM
It boggles my mind that Knick fans think they are in a good place... "Next year we have all these players coming off the books and a potential top draft pick."

Please realize, every team gets picks. Team rarely get better from the draft. All the draft does is supplement young talent usually. Yes, there are a few exceptions. Knicks haven't proven anything in drafting talent in the draft. And if your hopes are in the draft... There's bad news... You have less picks than most teams going forward which puts you at a disadvantage. Melo should also be of concern. He hasn't shown himself to be a leader in my books. He's in the payroll for many years going forward. If you expect to let all these guys with expirings walk, your cap space is eaten heavily by the first player listed. Melo and 48M or whatever isn't as much as you would want to build this championship team you keep discussing. Salaries will be really jumping next season. A good 10M player this year might command 16-17 because teams have space with only a small portion of talent to spend on. Good teams will make moves at the deadline for bird rights of the players that want to move forward with. I don't see any assets the Knicks can use in trade.

Also, looking forward to a clean sheet is not as good as poster seem to be leading on. Teams have built something and will be growing not starting from scratch. For me, Phil isn't doing the job you guys had talked about. Culture is nothing... Talent might be worse than last year. What has he accomplished?? Anyone could sit and wait for players to come off the books. Dolan might have been able to do SOMETHING. Anything. There's still a good chance the Knicks are digging a deeper hole next year rather than building anything of value. Time will tell. Spending tax money for this roster is embarrassing.

It would have boggled everyones mind if you said the raptors were in a good place 16 months ago when they were ready to trade all of their players and tank for Wiggins - but look what happened.

We are essentially getting a clean slate with a ton of dough to refill it, while keeping Melo, and getting a lottery pick. What is not to like about that?