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View Full Version : Are the Bulls the only real threat in the East?



Vampirate
11-17-2014, 08:14 PM
Let's be honest here, the Raptors and Wizards aren't contenders, Miami clearly needs James to be truly in that discussion. One could say Cleveland but they've given up the third most points in the East, A great offense won't cover up swiss cheese defense, especially in the playoffs, they'll need to be historically great on offense to be true contenders imo.

jerellh528
11-17-2014, 08:17 PM
I would say so.

abe_froman
11-17-2014, 08:18 PM
no,all the contenders in the east have some issue,but all those teams you named have a shot

Arch Stanton
11-17-2014, 08:36 PM
No they're not.

Jamiecballer
11-17-2014, 08:37 PM
Nope.

InRoseWeTrust
11-17-2014, 09:05 PM
Nah. Cavs will be there at the end, along with Toronto and Wash. Heat are pretty good as well.

Animosity
11-17-2014, 09:42 PM
Yes... They are the only threat to the Cavs. When it comes down to pure talent the Cavs are just over flowing with it. The only threat they should have is the Bulls. Wizards are good but don't seem to have the ability to Contain 2 of the big 3. Raptors are also a good team but don't seem to have the killer instinct. The Heat Will make the playoffs but can only go as far as Dwayne wade can take them. Bosh can do anything he wants but unless Wade is there to support it I don't see them as a threat. Rose has been annoyed by injuries and everything is blown up by the media. Funny how the media can't seem to figure out that 2 years off this dumb injuries will happen because he isn't in game shape. With or with out Rose they can give the Cavs a hard time. The road cone defensive scheme won't work in the playoffs. All of these teams have plenty of time to improve so who knows whats going to be going on in the playoffs.

Bramaca
11-17-2014, 09:53 PM
Despite struggling early the Cavs have too much talent to not be considered a contender. Whether they put it together this season is a question that remains to be seen. The Heat with Wade are a lot like the Spurs IMO, as long as he is playing and relatively healthy they are a threat.

Mr. Baller
11-17-2014, 10:17 PM
Until Thibs runs them all into the ground again

beasted86
11-17-2014, 10:58 PM
Threat for what?

Nobody from the East is winning the championship this year. Some weird circumstances would have to happen. Every single team from the East would be considered a heavy underdog by the odds.

effen5
11-18-2014, 02:18 AM
Threat for what?

Nobody from the East is winning the championship this year. Some weird circumstances would have to happen. Every single team from the East would be considered a heavy underdog by the odds.

Why don't you read the title.

Kyben36
11-18-2014, 02:59 AM
Let's be honest here, the Raptors and Wizards aren't contenders, Miami clearly needs James to be truly in that discussion. One could say Cleveland but they've given up the third most points in the East, A great offense won't cover up swiss cheese defense, especially in the playoffs, they'll need to be historically great on offense to be true contenders imo.

Cleveland can pull it together, maimi struggled their first year, but i think this team really lacks defense, wade was at least a copetent defender and gave them that 2nd wing guy, the Cavs, Irving is terrible defensivly, if Kirk Hinrich can tear him up, it says something, , i also think the Wiz could do some damage in the playoffs, knocking off a team like the bulls, but other than that, i have little belief that the Raptors can actually come out, but ive been surprised before,

Tony_Starks
11-18-2014, 03:08 AM
Between the Bulls and Miami, depends who holds up better Rose or Wade.

I doubt either team could beat whoever comes out of the west though...

PowerHouse
11-18-2014, 04:05 AM
Either them or Cleveland.

Unless Indiana can pull off an amazing PG13 & Hibbert for Kevin Durant trade. (which wont happen)

beasted86
11-18-2014, 11:46 AM
Between the Bulls and Miami, depends who holds up better Rose or Wade.

I doubt either team could beat whoever comes out of the west though...

Every team from the East is flawed and relying on luck of something weird happening out West so a weaker opponent comes out. Some type of injury to the Warriors front court like always seems to happen, a couple age injuries with the Spurs, some type of event to balance the odds. But if talking straight up everyone healthy, the East is pretty weakas pictured right now. But teams can make some trades and improve between now and then. Anything can happen with the right move. We saw it in '04 with the Pistons.

And this Miami team is much more flawed than the Bulls. The defense has been weak and PG play is too erratic. We'd need more luck than others to make it out.

northsider
11-18-2014, 12:41 PM
The West is strong but, no team absolutely terrifies me for the Bulls to play. If healthy (which is key for pretty much every ****ing team looking to contend) there isn't a team in the West I don't think the Bulls can't be a threat too. Top to bottom this isn't any sort of ****** EC team and them being in the EC doesn't some how lessen their talent which is why allot of what I am reading sounds stupid. Top coaching, amazing depth, players coming into their own, floor spacing we haven't seen in a while, and a solid secondary scoring option at SG who happens to play elite defense.

I won't speak much for other EC teams but, I will add that ANY ****ing team with Lebron on it is a threat and you'd be absolutely naive to think other wise based on a handful of games to start a new season with a new team.

InRoseWeTrust
11-18-2014, 01:22 PM
I think the Bulls can hold their own against any team in the west, especially if they get relatively healthy. **** got real ugly for LAC last night when we clamped down.

Ezio
11-18-2014, 02:00 PM
I think the Bulls can hold their own against any team in the west, especially if they get relatively healthy. **** ugly real ugly for LAC last night when we clamped down.

The ****ing clamps... http://zidtees.com/products/square/85866.png

pebloemer
11-18-2014, 02:07 PM
You can't dismiss Cleveland after so few games. Too much talent on that team. They'll get better at both ends of the floor as the season goes on.

Chicago certainly looks the part of the frontrunner in the East right now. A healthy Rose + Butler/Gasol/Noah/Gibson and Thibideau coaching is downright scary.

ILLUSIONIST^248
11-18-2014, 02:34 PM
Let's be honest here, the Raptors and Wizards aren't contenders, Miami clearly needs James to be truly in that discussion. One could say Cleveland but they've given up the third most points in the East, A great offense won't cover up swiss cheese defense, especially in the playoffs, they'll need to be historically great on offense to be true contenders imo.

That's why ya boy had then winning the east to start the season.

ink
11-18-2014, 02:42 PM
You can't dismiss Cleveland after so few games. Too much talent on that team. They'll get better at both ends of the floor as the season goes on.

Chicago certainly looks the part of the frontrunner in the East right now. A healthy Rose + Butler/Gasol/Noah/Gibson and Thibideau coaching is downright scary.

This.

Miltstar
11-18-2014, 02:53 PM
Keep underestimating the Raptors... they get better every day. Lots still left to happen this season, injuries/trades etc... I wouldn't write anything in stone! Bulls look good now but they also look very fragile

Big Zo
11-18-2014, 03:04 PM
The Bulls are pretty much the same team they've been the last 5 years. Good/solid regular season team, but don't expect them to do much in the playoffs without Rose getting back to MVP form.

KG2TB
11-18-2014, 03:42 PM
The Bulls are pretty much the same team they've been the last 5 years. Good/solid regular season team, but don't expect them to do much in the playoffs without Rose getting back to MVP form.

Rose doesn't need to be back to MVP for us to win. We need him around an all-star level by the time the playoffs start. With Butler emerging, the addition of Gasol and better depth with Niko, who gives the Bulls a stretch 4 which they never really had, Rose just needs to be healthy in the playoffs and play every game in every series.

72 Wins
11-18-2014, 03:45 PM
The Bulls are pretty much the same team they've been the last 5 years. Good/solid regular season team, but don't expect them to do much in the playoffs without Rose getting back to MVP form.

Petty much the same team in terms of offensive flow, BUT they have huge upgrades in new players or players coming into their own (Butler). If Butler keeps this up, we have a legit #2 that we never had.

numba1CHANGsta
11-18-2014, 04:17 PM
Just proves how weak the East has been over the past 15 years. There's either no real threats or just 1-2 teams that are legit threats compared to the West where's there's like 8-10

Goose17
11-18-2014, 04:22 PM
I like Toronto and D.C

Cleveland will work it out.

I would say those are the 4 teams potentially coming out of the east into the finals.

cdnsportsfan
11-18-2014, 04:34 PM
Really? This is a thread? It's still way too early, a number of teams have issues to address and even the Bulls have their own concerns that could rise up. Cleveland for example is still working out a new roster and rookie head coach and they have the potential to be huge threats in the East. That's not even counting the other contenders right now.

Will have to wait and see how things play out. Let's say you come back to this when teams at least reach the quarter game point of the season (though even that is way too early to provide much info).

DaBear
11-18-2014, 05:04 PM
You can't dismiss Cleveland after so few games. Too much talent on that team. They'll get better at both ends of the floor as the season goes on.

Chicago certainly looks the part of the frontrunner in the East right now. A healthy Rose + Butler/Gasol/Noah/Gibson and Thibideau coaching is downright scary.

Most people aren't dismissing the Cavs, but it's clear they have issues with defense. That was one of the questions going into the season, and so far it's true. The only thing stopping the Bulls from reaching the Finals is themselves. A healthy Bulls team should make it to the Finals.

DaBear
11-18-2014, 05:05 PM
Just proves how weak the East has been over the past 15 years. There's either no real threats or just 1-2 teams that are legit threats compared to the West where's there's like 8-10

:laugh2:

Some people overrate the West so bad with comments like that. No, there aren't 8-10 title contenders in the West.

archdevil84
11-18-2014, 05:12 PM
west contenders are like
spurs
OKC when healthy
golden state

memphis, houston, portland, clippers and mavericks are all good teams but not better then the spurs or warriors

Goose17
11-18-2014, 05:26 PM
:laugh2:

Some people overrate the West so bad with comments like that. No, there aren't 8-10 title contenders in the West.

What makes you say that? I'll take 7 of the western teams in a seven game series against any team in the East bar maybe two.

I don't think you realise how big a gap there is between East and west. Do you remember how crazy the first round was last year? And teams have only gotten better.

Goose17
11-18-2014, 05:27 PM
The Western conference is in a golden age
It's never been this deep. They set a new league record for the highest win % of either conference last season.

The east on the other hand... is looking like it's still garbage aside from 2-3 teams.

sixers247
11-18-2014, 05:28 PM
Between the Bulls and Miami, depends who holds up better Rose or Wade.

I doubt either team could beat whoever comes out of the west though...

HAHAHAH Miami has no ****ing shot. Idiot.

Sanjay
11-18-2014, 06:24 PM
I am definitely not a Cavaliers fan, but why are people questioning them after only 9 games?

Tony_Starks
11-18-2014, 06:39 PM
I am definitely not a Cavaliers fan, but why are people questioning them after only 9 games?

Because they're toward the bottom of the league in defense. They're basically trying to outscore teams.

It's still way early but to be that bad defensively is a legit concern.

DaBear
11-18-2014, 07:41 PM
:laugh2:

Some people overrate the West so bad with comments like that. No, there aren't 8-10 title contenders in the West.

What makes you say that? I'll take 7 of the western teams in a seven game series against any team in the East bar maybe two.

I don't think you realise how big a gap there is between East and west. Do you remember how crazy the first round was last year? And teams have only gotten better.

My point wasn't that the west isn't better top to bottom. It is by a lot. I was just saying there aren't 8-10 title contenders in the west.

Spurs, OKC, Golden State, and maybe Houston.

beasted86
11-18-2014, 07:45 PM
Just proves how weak the East has been over the past 15 years. There's either no real threats or just 1-2 teams that are legit threats compared to the West where's there's like 8-10

You have a really poor understanding of contender quality teams if you think there are 8 squads out West that can legitimately advance to the Finals.

For the last 8 seasons or so there has been about 2 teams from the East and 4 teams from the West that could be called real contenders that have equal or favored odds to win a 7 game series against any team in the league. Nothing has changed.

FriedTofuz
11-18-2014, 09:05 PM
memphis is clearly the best team in the nba right now..

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-19-2014, 02:22 AM
Can you read? I mean that seriously.

Because you can't have read the title and original post, read my reply, and then made the statement you made. I heard of this program called "Hooked on Phonics" you should look into it....

I'll try and break this down on an elementary level. If the thread starter says "real threat" and then talks about teams that aren't contenders, then I come in and say no team from the East is a true contender, then it's a valid question to ask "threat for what?"

Every single team out East is a heavy underdog to win the title as currently constructed is what I'm saying, so there can't be any "real threat". So, can your tiny brain comprehend this now?

A Lebron James led team or a Thibs coached team with a healthy D-Rose and the rest of that roster would never be considered a "heavy" underdog as you so easily put it regardless of who they face from the West. Just cuz the Heat no longer will be playing in the Finals, you don't need to be so bitter towards the other teams in the East.

bbcmillionaire
11-19-2014, 03:59 AM
Lol only one team out west could actually beat a healthy bulls team, and that's a healthy spurs. The west is being overrated as usual again. I got 2-3 out west and bulls and cavs as the next champs. Clips, spurs and maybe the thunder

numba1CHANGsta
11-19-2014, 05:20 AM
You have a really poor understanding of contender quality teams if you think there are 8 squads out West that can legitimately advance to the Finals.

For the last 8 seasons or so there has been about 2 teams from the East and 4 teams from the West that could be called real contenders that have equal or favored odds to win a 7 game series against any team in the league. Nothing has changed.

Your Heat couldn't beat 7 out of the top 10 teams out West, in fact if the Heat were playing in the West they wouldn't even be in the playoffs as of right now. If you guys still had LeBron then it would be a different story. And please don't tell me that TOR or WAS (who are the top two teams in the East) would beat 6-7 out of the top 8 teams out West right now and thats not even including OKC who are getting KD and RW soon.

numba1CHANGsta
11-19-2014, 05:24 AM
My point wasn't that the west isn't better top to bottom. It is by a lot. I was just saying there aren't 8-10 title contenders in the west.

Spurs, OKC, Golden State, and maybe Houston.

Why are you hating on the West so much? SA, a healthy OKC, GSW, HOU, DAL, MEM, POR, LAC are all title contenders. There's only 2 teams out East who are legit contenders and thats CHI and CLE and CHI w/o Rose wouldn't stand a chance

Goose17
11-19-2014, 05:37 AM
My point wasn't that the west isn't better top to bottom. It is by a lot. I was just saying there aren't 8-10 title contenders in the west.

Spurs, OKC, Golden State, and maybe Houston.

You're not making sense. If you agree that there are 7-8 teams in the West that could beat every team in the East in a seven game series with maybe one or two exceptions, then how can you say they're not contenders?

If they made it to the finals they would be playing the best in the East. And I think a 7th seed in the West could beat the best in the East.

How can you say Houston are contenders but not Memphis? (who are a far better team). Or even LAC or Portland. You don't think those teams could beat Houston? (the same Houston that couldn't score over 70 points in a single game).


I genuinely believe the top 6 or 7 teams in the West could make it to the conference finals. Which, by definition, makes them contenders.

xxcubs22xx
11-19-2014, 06:57 AM
In my opinion the only real threats in the East this year are Toronto, Washington and Chicago. The Cavs are pretty poor in several categories and I think they need time to jell. As previously mentioned it's hard to win games by purely outscoring everybody without defending.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 07:02 AM
In my opinion the only real threats in the East this year are Toronto, Washington and Chicago. The Cavs are pretty poor in several categories and I think they need time to jell. As previously mentioned it's hard to win games by purely outscoring everybody without defending.

I think they'll put it together by season end, ready to make a run in the playoffs. That much talent can't be ignored.

I don't see the Bulls without Rose being true contenders. We'll see how Butler develops through the season.

D.C with Beal back in the line up will be dangerous. They're a tough defensive team. I like them for a deep run. Toronto as well. This is assuming all the main guys stay healthy.

I honestly think the real contenders will be D.C and Toronto. Chicago are only there if Rose is back to all star level and staying healthy or if Butler turns out to be that level. Cleveland have a lot of star power but also a lot of question marks.

quade36
11-19-2014, 08:08 AM
As a Bulls fan I can honestly say this thread is truly scraping the bottom of the barrel for topics

Badluck33
11-19-2014, 09:17 AM
Better teams in West

But East is more top Heavy.

Hasn't it always been like this?

The league has had Dirk, Kobe and Duncan in West for 10+ years so ya, kinda? no? am i rite?

Goose17
11-19-2014, 09:30 AM
Better teams in West

But East is more top Heavy.


Not really true anymore, when the top 8 teams or so in the West are all arguably better than the top 2 in the East.

pebloemer
11-19-2014, 10:03 AM
Most people aren't dismissing the Cavs, but it's clear they have issues with defense. That was one of the questions going into the season, and so far it's true. The only thing stopping the Bulls from reaching the Finals is themselves. A healthy Bulls team should make it to the Finals.

Oh, they have certainly have plenty of problems right now, especially on the defensive end, but it is a LONG season. It is still too early. I like Chicago better, (I said as much in the off-season too), but Cleveland has the talent to be a legit threat to anybody. If they are still scuffling in Jan/Feb, I'd be a bit more concerned. I think fan tendency (I'd consider pretty much everyone hear basketball fans, even for those that aren't Cleveland fans) is to overreact to small sample sizes. Cleveland's start remains a very small sample size.

beasted86
11-19-2014, 12:57 PM
Your Heat couldn't beat 7 out of the top 10 teams out West, in fact if the Heat were playing in the West they wouldn't even be in the playoffs as of right now. If you guys still had LeBron then it would be a different story. And please don't tell me that TOR or WAS (who are the top two teams in the East) would beat 6-7 out of the top 8 teams out West right now and thats not even including OKC who are getting KD and RW soon.

There is a serious problem in America, people. 1/4 of the roughly 198 million adults in this country cannot read. Even when considering the ones that can "read", the lack of full literacy is costing the U.S. $60 billion dollars a year in production.

Show me please where anywhere in what I said suggested the HEAT were a threat to beat the top four teams out West in a playoff series.

beasted86
11-19-2014, 01:06 PM
A Lebron James led team or a Thibs coached team with a healthy D-Rose and the rest of that roster would never be considered a "heavy" underdog as you so easily put it regardless of who they face from the West. Just cuz the Heat no longer will be playing in the Finals, you don't need to be so bitter towards the other teams in the East.
The HEAT last year were a far more efficient offense than the current Cavs, and were a better defense even though the defense was still subpar to a true contender (below top 10) and all ESPN and most other analysts had the HEAT losing that series before it started, and we clearly eventually lost it in embarrassing fashion. The Cavs and the Bulls are clearly the favorites to come out of the East but both teams are even weaker than last year's HEAT that made it out only to get crushed.

Any team that comes out of the East will get crushed unless they make some key trades between now and then or something weird happens in the West playoff picture as I earlier suggested (injury, etc).

The Bulls and Cavs can win the championship, but you're a blind homer to think anything other than them being a heavy underdog, with Vegas odds and most analysts opinions stacked against them.

Vampirate
11-19-2014, 01:17 PM
The HEAT last year were a far more efficient offense than the current Cavs, and were a better defense even though the defense was still subpar to a true contender (below top 10) and all ESPN and most other analysts had the HEAT losing that series before it started, and we clearly eventually lost it in embarrassing fashion. The Cavs and the Bulls are clearly the favorites to come out of the East but both teams are even weaker than last year's HEAT that made it out only to get crushed.

Any team that comes out of the East will get crushed unless they make some key trades between now and then or something weird happens in the West playoff picture as I earlier suggested (injury, etc).

The Bulls and Cavs can win the championship, but you're a blind homer to think anything other than them being a heavy underdog, with Vegas odds and most analysts opinions stacked against them.

The criticism for defense is valid as there aren't many known good defenders on that team.


However I don't believe you can criticize their offense when they have been together for 11 games while James was on your Heat for 4 years and developed chemistry.

Arch Stanton
11-19-2014, 01:18 PM
The HEAT last year were a far more efficient offense than the current Cavs, and were a better defense even though the defense was still subpar to a true contender (below top 10) and all ESPN and most other analysts had the HEAT losing that series before it started, and we clearly eventually lost it in embarrassing fashion. The Cavs and the Bulls are clearly the favorites to come out of the East but both teams are even weaker than last year's HEAT that made it out only to get crushed.

Any team that comes out of the East will get crushed unless they make some key trades between now and then or something weird happens in the West playoff picture as I earlier suggested (injury, etc).

The Bulls and Cavs can win the championship, but you're a blind homer to think anything other than them being a heavy underdog, with Vegas odds and most analysts opinions stacked against them.

While I agree in that the Cavs would be an underdog in the NBA finals, Vegas odds do not stack against them. Same with the Bulls.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

beasted86
11-19-2014, 01:24 PM
While I agree in that the Cavs would be an underdog in the NBA finals, Vegas odds do not stack against them. Same with the Bulls.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/
I didn't even click the link because I know those aren't current odds and were likely made long before the season started.

I've seen those odds and they are a separate betting option than the actual Finals odds when the time comes.

beasted86
11-19-2014, 01:37 PM
The criticism for defense is valid as there aren't many known good defenders on that team.


However I don't believe you can criticize their offense when they have been together for 11 games while James was on your Heat for 4 years and developed chemistry.
The criticism only comes as a rebuttal to a comparison of last year's HEAT with James versus this year's Cavs with James. Last year's HEAT was the most efficient offense since the Showtime Lakers. I don't think the Cavs will get anywhere close to that level this year even when they gel a little more over the season, or if I were to use the post all-star splits....or are you saying otherwise?

beasted86
11-19-2014, 01:57 PM
Most people aren't dismissing the Cavs, but it's clear they have issues with defense. That was one of the questions going into the season, and so far it's true. The only thing stopping the Bulls from reaching the Finals is themselves. A healthy Bulls team should make it to the Finals.

You state that the Bulls can beat anyone and the only thing stopping them is themselves... I say otherwise that what's stopping them is their offense.

Do you really trust Jimmy Butler to continue putting up the offensive numbers during the whole course of the season and especially during the playoffs? I wouldn't if I were a Bulls fan. I also wouldn't be depending on any of McDermott or Mirotic either. Anybody that is sitting back and thinking "when the Finals series games are on the line, no problem, we have the rookies who will bring it home for us" are delusional. We've already seen over the last couple years and 2 years ago with Howard and Kobe injured/hobbled that Pau cannot carry an offense. He's just not that guy, not even in his prime, that's why Memphis did nothing in the playoffs. He's a solid second option even at his age, but he's not a guy you can count on to just go to in the post every time down the floor. And finally, Rose isn't that guy either. I'm sure people will want to say I'm hating or I'm being unfair that Rose has matured and if healthy he can do this and that... But last time we truly saw him healthy in the playoffs he was getting shut down in the fourth quarter. Since then he's played roughly 0.9 playoff games, so I don't see why anyone has a reason to be confident he has overcome these abilities and grown as a player that he can NOW shoulder that load. At the end of the day, the Bulls haven't grown in the same regard as the past... who exactly are they going to in the end of tight playoff games as a reliable and efficient option? Nobody, as I currently see it.

Both the Bulls and Cavs are favorites in the East but I don't see how either wins it all without a lot of luck or some changes between now and then.

I'll listen to all arguments to the contrary.

Arch Stanton
11-19-2014, 02:11 PM
I didn't even click the link because I know those aren't current odds and were likely made long before the season started.

I've seen those odds and they are a separate betting option than the actual Finals odds when the time comes.

Here is another site that proves you wrong https://sports.bovada.lv/mobile/#coupon/NBF

chitownbulls
11-19-2014, 03:34 PM
You state that the Bulls can beat anyone and the only thing stopping them is themselves... I say otherwise that what's stopping them is their offense.

Do you really trust Jimmy Butler to continue putting up the offensive numbers during the whole course of the season and especially during the playoffs? I wouldn't if I were a Bulls fan. I also wouldn't be depending on any of McDermott or Mirotic either. Anybody that is sitting back and thinking "when the Finals series games are on the line, no problem, we have the rookies who will bring it home for us" are delusional. We've already seen over the last couple years and 2 years ago with Howard and Kobe injured/hobbled that Pau cannot carry an offense. He's just not that guy, not even in his prime, that's why Memphis did nothing in the playoffs. He's a solid second option even at his age, but he's not a guy you can count on to just go to in the post every time down the floor. And finally, Rose isn't that guy either. I'm sure people will want to say I'm hating or I'm being unfair that Rose has matured and if healthy he can do this and that... But last time we truly saw him healthy in the playoffs he was getting shut down in the fourth quarter. Since then he's played roughly 0.9 playoff games, so I don't see why anyone has a reason to be confident he has overcome these abilities and grown as a player that he can NOW shoulder that load. At the end of the day, the Bulls haven't grown in the same regard as the past... who exactly are they going to in the end of tight playoff games as a reliable and efficient option? Nobody, as I currently see it.

Both the Bulls and Cavs are favorites in the East but I don't see how either wins it all without a lot of luck or some changes between now and then.

I'll listen to all arguments to the contrary.


IMO this is a very ignorant post. The Bulls offense is vastly improved. We have some of the best passing big men in the league so we get more open shots than we ever have in the past. Rose plays off the ball alot more, and anyone who watches Rose play knows that you cant keep up with his speed.

In fact, you mention that he was shut down in the playoffs in the fourth..but you're only focusing on the Conference finals and ignoring the rest of those playoffs. When we played the Hawks, Rose dominated them. Lebron was the one that shut down Rose, but he can't even do that this season.. He doesn't have a great defender like Wade to switch with. Whoever he switches with will be a matchup nightmare. Also, we don't have Keith ****ing Bogans anymore.

And let's also ignore that Pau and Taj, despite not being primary scoring options, are top post players in the league, and command double teams majority of the time. We honestly don't need Jimmy to be more than a 20 ppg player, even if he can get 16, It'd be more than enough to go along with our defense and new offensive weapons/passing ability.

I honestly feel the Bulls could beat any team in the West, except maybe the Spurs. We just humiliated LA, a team people believed to be a contender, at home without our top 2 players. If Rose is healthy, how many teams in the west have as good of a roster, coach, and depth that could beat us?

Chronz
11-19-2014, 03:46 PM
I didn't even click the link because I know those aren't current odds and were likely made long before the season started.

I've seen those odds and they are a separate betting option than the actual Finals odds when the time comes.

Yeah, show me the odds comes Finals.

JordansBulls
11-19-2014, 06:15 PM
Let's be honest here, the Raptors and Wizards aren't contenders, Miami clearly needs James to be truly in that discussion. One could say Cleveland but they've given up the third most points in the East, A great offense won't cover up swiss cheese defense, especially in the playoffs, they'll need to be historically great on offense to be true contenders imo.

Miami is certainly a threat, Luol Deng is going to make sure that Lebron James experiences fear this year for
changing his number and team. He will make that cat regret his decisions he has made.

beasted86
11-19-2014, 07:38 PM
IMO this is a very ignorant post. The Bulls offense is vastly improved. We have some of the best passing big men in the league so we get more open shots than we ever have in the past. Rose plays off the ball alot more, and anyone who watches Rose play knows that you cant keep up with his speed.

In fact, you mention that he was shut down in the playoffs in the fourth..but you're only focusing on the Conference finals and ignoring the rest of those playoffs. When we played the Hawks, Rose dominated them. Lebron was the one that shut down Rose, but he can't even do that this season.. He doesn't have a great defender like Wade to switch with. Whoever he switches with will be a matchup nightmare. Also, we don't have Keith ****ing Bogans anymore.

And let's also ignore that Pau and Taj, despite not being primary scoring options, are top post players in the league, and command double teams majority of the time. We honestly don't need Jimmy to be more than a 20 ppg player, even if he can get 16, It'd be more than enough to go along with our defense and new offensive weapons/passing ability.

I honestly feel the Bulls could beat any team in the West, except maybe the Spurs. We just humiliated LA, a team people believed to be a contender, at home without our top 2 players. If Rose is healthy, how many teams in the west have as good of a roster, coach, and depth that could beat us?

All what matters is what you expect and will depend on come playoff time. Butler averaged 13 a game on 38% last playoffs, and now you're penciling him in for 16 a game? This is what I'm talking about in a microcosm. A lot of things "can" happen, but most of it is on the positive side and an optimistic approach, rather than what I see as realistic expectations... and even still, the Bulls need everything to go their way just to have a chance offensively. Most the other top contenders put up 100 points in their sleep, even against elite defenses.

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-19-2014, 09:05 PM
You state that the Bulls can beat anyone and the only thing stopping them is themselves... I say otherwise that what's stopping them is their offense.

Do you really trust Jimmy Butler to continue putting up the offensive numbers during the whole course of the season and especially during the playoffs? I wouldn't if I were a Bulls fan. I also wouldn't be depending on any of McDermott or Mirotic either. Anybody that is sitting back and thinking "when the Finals series games are on the line, no problem, we have the rookies who will bring it home for us" are delusional. We've already seen over the last couple years and 2 years ago with Howard and Kobe injured/hobbled that Pau cannot carry an offense. He's just not that guy, not even in his prime, that's why Memphis did nothing in the playoffs. He's a solid second option even at his age, but he's not a guy you can count on to just go to in the post every time down the floor. And finally, Rose isn't that guy either. I'm sure people will want to say I'm hating or I'm being unfair that Rose has matured and if healthy he can do this and that... But last time we truly saw him healthy in the playoffs he was getting shut down in the fourth quarter. Since then he's played roughly 0.9 playoff games, so I don't see why anyone has a reason to be confident he has overcome these abilities and grown as a player that he can NOW shoulder that load. At the end of the day, the Bulls haven't grown in the same regard as the past... who exactly are they going to in the end of tight playoff games as a reliable and efficient option? Nobody, as I currently see it.

Both the Bulls and Cavs are favorites in the East but I don't see how either wins it all without a lot of luck or some changes between now and then.

I'll listen to all arguments to the contrary.

My god. This post is fuming with pessimism. According to you, everything that can possibly go wrong for the Bulls will go wrong come playoff time. Let's forget about how good Gasol, Butler, Gibson, Brooks, Dunleavy and Rose in the games he's played, have played this season offensively and let's base everything that's gonna happen in the playoffs on the probability of the entire team imploding. You're so smart.

And also, did the Spurs have a specific "guy" they relied on to score in tight playoff games? It's called a team. The Bulls are using that blueprint for success with big men who can score inside and are great passers. And this year they have more shooters, which is what they lacked before. Dunleavy is having a career year from behind the arc. This team has been built to play a dominant half court offense, which is what you need in the playoffs. It is no longer centered on Rose having to break down a defense and create like in the past. His abilities are an added luxury now.

chitownbulls
11-19-2014, 09:08 PM
All what matters is what you expect and will depend on come playoff time. Butler averaged 13 a game on 38% last playoffs, and now you're penciling him in for 16 a game? This is what I'm talking about in a microcosm. A lot of things "can" happen, but most of it is on the positive side and an optimistic approach, rather than what I see as realistic expectations... and even still, the Bulls need everything to go their way just to have a chance offensively. Most the other top contenders put up 100 points in their sleep, even against elite defenses.

Well have you watched Butler play this season? There is no reason to believe that a young player can improve upon a previous season. In fact, for those who have watched him this season and last, it is apparent that he has improved in literally every offensive category, and 16 ppg is a pessimistic outlook.

And to the bolded, That isn't true. When Rose was healthy in 2011, we were a pretty good offensive team. I think ranked 11th in offensive efficiency? I could be wrong. However, even if this team doesn't have a healthy Rose, there is no reason that the Bulls can't achieve that level again. With a better Noah, Gasol instead of Boozer, Butler instead of Bogans, and a much better scoring bench.

And again, to disprove your point about offensive teams scoring 100 points easily over elite defenses in the playoffs(specifically ours)..In the 10 games the Miami Heat have played vs us over the past 3 years in the playoffs, they have scored over 100 just 3 times. 2 of those were with a hobbled Noah, injured Kirk, no Luol Deng. So really, an elite Miami team couldn't even put up 100 so easily.

InRoseWeTrust
11-19-2014, 10:26 PM
Not really true anymore, when the top 8 teams or so in the West are all arguably better than the top 2 in the East.

I'm sorry, but there are not 8 teams better in the West than Chicago.

dalton749
11-19-2014, 11:04 PM
toronto never gunna get any respect either
theyve been doing this for a full year now lol

FriedTofuz
11-19-2014, 11:15 PM
Toronto never gets respect, best record in the east before this thread was made, shaking my head :facepalm:

koreancabbage
11-19-2014, 11:22 PM
Toronto never gets respect, best record in the east before this thread was made, shaking my head :facepalm:

Until the Raptors win a couple of playoff series, take off those homer glasses.

FriedTofuz
11-19-2014, 11:59 PM
Until the Raptors win a couple of playoff series, take off those homer glasses.

The bulls got slapped in the playoffs, pretty badly. That doesnt make me a homer, they're actually the number 1 team in the east and it wasnt like we were trying to sell how good our team was post-rudy gay trade, we're actually at the top from the start.

Arch Stanton
11-20-2014, 12:03 AM
Miami is certainly a threat, Luol Deng is going to make sure that Lebron James experiences fear this year for
changing his number and team. He will make that cat regret his decisions he has made.

Man you really hate LeBron. Apparently Deng and Butler will shut down LeBron even though they haven't prevented him making it to the finals the past four years.

Tmath
11-20-2014, 12:04 AM
The bulls got slapped in the playoffs, pretty badly. That doesnt make me a homer, they're actually the number 1 team in the east and it wasnt like we were trying to sell how good our team was post-rudy gay trade, we're actually at the top from the start.

Being the number 1 seed this early doesn't mean much. Raps still have a lot to prove, but are certainly headed in the right direction.

Arch Stanton
11-20-2014, 12:12 AM
Right now I think there are maybe 5 threats in the East and they include Bulls, Cavs, Raptors, Wizards, and Heat. Now that could certainly change and probably will but it's November.

BHF
11-20-2014, 12:14 AM
The good part about the raps is that they have picks and expiring contracts, they can add one or two very good players to the roster and get even better.

koreancabbage
11-20-2014, 12:15 AM
The bulls got slapped in the playoffs, pretty badly. That doesnt make me a homer, they're actually the number 1 team in the east and it wasnt like we were trying to sell how good our team was post-rudy gay trade, we're actually at the top from the start.

Only reason why Chicago is consider a contender and a legitimate team is because
1) they are a good team that have shown up to the playoffs the last 6 years.
2) they've won playoff series.

That doesn't mean Toronto is up there just by being the best team after 11 games and showing up to 3 playoff series in the last 10 years.

Respect is earned over consistency. Don't be a leafs fan in the NBA forum. no one likes a homer/extremist.


Being the number 1 seed this early doesn't mean much. Raps still have a lot to prove, but are certainly headed in the right direction.

exactly. Friedtofuz is jumping the gun WAYYYYY to early. What if the Raptors in midseason get crippling injuries and/or go on a massive losing streak. we've seen it before. Thats why you don't become a homer and along the way, you become a respectable poster (imo, not saying I am but thats just being classy and realistic)

FriedTofuz
11-20-2014, 12:58 AM
Only reason why Chicago is consider a contender and a legitimate team is because
1) they are a good team that have shown up to the playoffs the last 6 years.
2) they've won playoff series.

That doesn't mean Toronto is up there just by being the best team after 11 games and showing up to 3 playoff series in the last 10 years.

Respect is earned over consistency. Don't be a leafs fan in the NBA forum. no one likes a homer/extremist.

I agree that the bulls have been more consistent, the raptors just entered the playoffs last year and came up short. but when I said my opinion, it was strictly in regards that they still need to be part of the conversation of teams in the east. They have not demonstrated onsistent yet, but because of their current position and start, they cannot be excluded from the conversation. Im not a homer.

exactly. Friedtofuz is jumping the gun WAYYYYY to early. What if the Raptors in midseason get crippling injuries and/or go on a massive losing streak. we've seen it before. Thats why you don't become a homer and along the way, you become a respectable poster (imo, not saying I am but thats just being classy and realistic)

Okay, quit targeting me you're becoming annoying as ****. before you run your mouth off, you should read my other posts. Ive posted in the raptor game threads how although they've been winning, their ability to play defense, and pass the ball cannnot be disregarded. They've been winning ugly and I am aware of that. just because Ive said " hey they should at least be part of the discussion" as they reside at the top of their conference, it's strictly based on potential, I didnt say the raptors are lock to compeat for a championship.
Instead of calling other people homers, read all my posts if you're going to continue to single out me like that. Ive been critical of the raptors during every win, go read my posts before you throw the homer card out there. THanks.

FriedTofuz
11-20-2014, 01:00 AM
Being the number 1 seed this early doesn't mean much. Raps still have a lot to prove, but are certainly headed in the right direction.

I agree, but when ive said my opinion Ive said that with the understanding that the raptors have not been playing onto the same level that they need to be ( top offensive and defensive team, they're far from it) they lack ball movement and the schedule has played into their favour so far so their weaknesses arent heavily emphasized.

DaBear
11-20-2014, 01:13 AM
You state that the Bulls can beat anyone and the only thing stopping them is themselves... I say otherwise that what's stopping them is their offense.

Do you really trust Jimmy Butler to continue putting up the offensive numbers during the whole course of the season and especially during the playoffs? I wouldn't if I were a Bulls fan. I also wouldn't be depending on any of McDermott or Mirotic either. Anybody that is sitting back and thinking "when the Finals series games are on the line, no problem, we have the rookies who will bring it home for us" are delusional. We've already seen over the last couple years and 2 years ago with Howard and Kobe injured/hobbled that Pau cannot carry an offense. He's just not that guy, not even in his prime, that's why Memphis did nothing in the playoffs. He's a solid second option even at his age, but he's not a guy you can count on to just go to in the post every time down the floor. And finally, Rose isn't that guy either. I'm sure people will want to say I'm hating or I'm being unfair that Rose has matured and if healthy he can do this and that... But last time we truly saw him healthy in the playoffs he was getting shut down in the fourth quarter. Since then he's played roughly 0.9 playoff games, so I don't see why anyone has a reason to be confident he has overcome these abilities and grown as a player that he can NOW shoulder that load. At the end of the day, the Bulls haven't grown in the same regard as the past... who exactly are they going to in the end of tight playoff games as a reliable and efficient option? Nobody, as I currently see it.

Both the Bulls and Cavs are favorites in the East but I don't see how either wins it all without a lot of luck or some changes between now and then.

I'll listen to all arguments to the contrary.

Are you joking? This team is way deeper on offense than the 2011 Bulls. That's not even a question. Stop being a bitter Heat fan. Our offense has improved thus far, as expected. I don't see any issues down the road unless injuries pile up.

DaBear
11-20-2014, 01:14 AM
Not really true anymore, when the top 8 teams or so in the West are all arguably better than the top 2 in the East.

Like who? The Clippers? :laugh2:

Cavs and Bulls would finish top 5 in the West.

ewing
11-20-2014, 01:18 AM
no we have no idea how the Cavs will be and they could always both lose and send a terrible team to the NBA finals to get whipped on

72 Wins
11-20-2014, 12:21 PM
The bottom line is that Chicago hasn't proven sh**. Theoretically, we are in a much better position compared to previous playoff years with a much improved offensive core and a legit #1 option in Butler. Relying on Rose to do it all against a much bigger Lebron is not going to prove successful. Now we finally have some options, but only time will tell if they will pan out.

Goose17
11-20-2014, 01:02 PM
Like who? The Clippers? :laugh2:

Cavs and Bulls would finish top 5 in the West.

I'm talking about a seven game playoff series, not the regular season.

Cavs are still fumbling. They've yet to find their footing, there's no way of knowing how long it will take, they could very well be elite at the end of the regular season but until we know for sure, I'm ruling them out of the finals.

Chicago have great defense as always but Rose is up and down, he needs to be healthy and playing all star level basketball for them to be considered contenders. Or Butler needs to go from "wow, he's improved" to a legitimate elite talent. I don't see Butler doing that, not this season.

D.C and Toronto are the contenders in the East.


And yes, I'll take the Clippers, Memphis, Golden State, San Antonio, Portland, Phoenix and more from the West in a seven game playoff series over Chicago.

Bartlee23
11-20-2014, 01:16 PM
I'm talking about a seven game playoff series, not the regular season.

Cavs are still fumbling. They've yet to find their footing, there's no way of knowing how long it will take, they could very well be elite at the end of the regular season but until we know for sure, I'm ruling them out of the finals.

Chicago have great defense as always but Rose is up and down, he needs to be healthy and playing all star level basketball for them to be considered contenders. Or Butler needs to go from "wow, he's improved" to a legitimate elite talent. I don't see Butler doing that, not this season.

D.C and Toronto are the contenders in the East.


And yes, I'll take the Clippers, Memphis, Golden State, San Antonio, Portland, Phoenix and more from the West in a seven game playoff series over Chicago.

Wow... that is a pretty dumb statement. Chicago could beat half those teams without Rose even playing. ( Did you see the game vs. the Clippers the other night Gasol didn't play either.) The only team out of those that would give Chicago trouble IMO would be San Antonio due to their experience.

The Clippers, Golden State and Phoenix have little playoff experience, ( why are we even talking Phoenix homer???) Memphis and Portland where they do have been playoff teams, Portland goes through their share of injuries and Memphis has only made it to the conference finals once and got swept by San Antonio.

Goose17
11-20-2014, 01:22 PM
[/B]
Wow... that is a pretty dumb statement.

Not really. But whatever.



[/B]
Chicago could beat half those teams without Rose even playing. Did you see the game vs. the Clippers the other night Gasol didn't play either.

Yeah but the Clippers haven't looked right all season, they'll put it together soon. The issue is, and you are BOTH missing this point. I am NOT talking about a regular season game I am talking about a seven series playoff game. Do you really think Utah are beating Cleveland in a seven game playoff series? No. Did they beat them in the regular season? Yep.

There's a MASSIVE difference.



[/B]
The Clippers, Golden State and Phoenix have little playoff experience, ( why are we even talking Phoenix homer???) Memphis and Portland where they do have been playoff teams, Portland goes through their share of injuries and Memphis has only made it to the conference finals once and got swept by San Antonio.

I don't see what playoff experience has to do with it really. The Bulls have struggled to make it past the first round in a VERY weak conference and when they did make it past the first round they got absolutely destroyed in the second round (by Miami).

Making it out of the first round in the West is worth more than making it out of the first round in the East. The East is utter garbage.

And why would I be a Phoenix homer? Look at my avatar, read my previous posts. I'm clearly a Warriors fan.

Oh and Memphis would DESTROY Chicago, every god damn time. Let's not even go there.



Without Rose, Chicago would be lucky to make it out of the first round. They're not contenders... then again they're in the East, so I guess they could make it to the conference finals or something due to how crap that conference is.

Ezio
11-20-2014, 01:44 PM
Not really. But whatever.




Yeah but the Clippers haven't looked right all season, they'll put it together soon. The issue is, and you are BOTH missing this point. I am NOT talking about a regular season game I am talking about a seven series playoff game. Do you really think Utah are beating Cleveland in a seven game playoff series? No. Did they beat them in the regular season? Yep.

There's a MASSIVE difference.




I don't see what playoff experience has to do with it really. The Bulls have struggled to make it past the first round in a VERY weak conference and when they did make it past the first round they got absolutely destroyed in the second round (by Miami).

Making it out of the first round in the West is worth more than making it out of the first round in the East. The East is utter garbage.

And why would I be a Phoenix homer? Look at my avatar, read my previous posts. I'm clearly a Warriors fan.

Oh and Memphis would DESTROY Chicago, every god damn time. Let's not even go there.



Without Rose, Chicago would be lucky to make it out of the first round. They're not contenders... then again they're in the East, so I guess they could make it to the conference finals or something due to how crap that conference is.

Without Lebron, CLE. W/o LMA, Port, W/O Curry, GSW... you get the point. If a team loses their best player they can't be consider contenders.

Goose17
11-20-2014, 02:01 PM
Without Lebron, CLE. W/o LMA, Port, W/O Curry, GSW... you get the point. If a team loses their best player they can't be consider contenders.

Exactly. And Rose has played 54 games since the 2011-12 season. Until he proves he can stay healthy there's no reason to consider Chicago contenders.

Ezio
11-20-2014, 04:36 PM
Exactly. And Rose has played 54 games since the 2011-12 season. Until he proves he can stay healthy there's no reason to consider Chicago contenders.

Except that many are starting to consider Jimmy Butler to be Chicago's best player, and he if keeps this up I don't see a reason to not crown him.

Bartlee23
11-20-2014, 05:38 PM
Not really. But whatever.

Yea really but whatever.



Yeah but the Clippers haven't looked right all season, they'll put it together soon. The issue is, and you are BOTH missing this point. I am NOT talking about a regular season game I am talking about a seven series playoff game. Do you really think Utah are beating Cleveland in a seven game playoff series? No. Did they beat them in the regular season? Yep.

How do you figure. Clippers have shown no signs of improvement and Paul where he's a great point guard has lead a team nowhere and the rest of the team has done nothing. As far as a seven game series goes, leaving Rose out of the picture Chicago is one of the deepest teams in the league, has one of the top defenses in the league, has one of the best coaches in the league and has improved tremendously on offense. They can beat you in so many different ways in more than a one game series.






I don't see what playoff experience has to do with it really. The Bulls have struggled to make it past the first round in a VERY weak conference and when they did make it past the first round they got absolutely destroyed in the second round (by Miami).



If you don't think playoff experience has anything to do with how teams play/compete then I am done with you right there and you've eclipsed your other dumb statement. Your are aware that this years Chicago team is totally different than years past and the last two years Rose did not play so anything they get from him is bonus.



Without Rose, Chicago would be lucky to make it out of the first round. They're not contenders... then again they're in the East, so I guess they could make it to the conference finals or something due to how crap that conference is.

Who's better than them in the East? Don't say Cleveland, they've proved nothing. Other than that you have Washington and Toronto. I say Chicago is better than all three and a contender.

Goose17
11-20-2014, 05:56 PM
Who's better than them in the East?

D.C and Toronto.

Ezio, read all my posts on the topic before replying please. I already mentioned that if Jimmer plays like an all star that might change. And he's been playing well but personally I think people are getting carried away with it. Rose is an MVP caliber player when at full health, Jimmer isn't even close to that. Crowning him the best is a stretch.

Shammyguy3
11-20-2014, 09:02 PM
The bottom line is that Chicago hasn't proven sh**. Theoretically, we are in a much better position compared to previous playoff years with a much improved offensive core and a legit #1 option in Butler. Relying on Rose to do it all against a much bigger Lebron is not going to prove successful. Now we finally have some options, but only time will tell if they will pan out.

Good post. Only thing though - the rest of the teams in the East are even less proven than this current Bulls team (with OR without Rose, I believe that to be true).


D.C and Toronto.

Ezio, read all my posts on the topic before replying please. I already mentioned that if Jimmer plays like an all star that might change. And he's been playing well but personally I think people are getting carried away with it. Rose is an MVP caliber player when at full health, Jimmer isn't even close to that. Crowning him the best is a stretch.

How is DC or Toronto better? And Jimmer Fredette was released last year ;)

Bartlee23
11-20-2014, 09:07 PM
]D.C and Toronto.[/B]

Ezio, read all my posts on the topic before replying please. I already mentioned that if Jimmer plays like an all star that might change. And he's been playing well but personally I think people are getting carried away with it. Rose is an MVP caliber player when at full health, Jimmer isn't even close to that. Crowning him the best is a stretch.

Your opinion and a poor one. Again Chicago is one of the deepest teams in the league, has one of the top defenses in the league, has one of the best coaches in the league and has improved tremendously on offense. They can beat you in so many different ways in more than a one game series and if you think playoff experience means nothing then you are not even worth talking to because you have no clue what you're talking about. When all is said and done, Chicago will be a contender Washington and Toronto are good but not on the same level as Chicago.

DaBear
11-20-2014, 11:19 PM
I'm talking about a seven game playoff series, not the regular season.

Cavs are still fumbling. They've yet to find their footing, there's no way of knowing how long it will take, they could very well be elite at the end of the regular season but until we know for sure, I'm ruling them out of the finals.

Chicago have great defense as always but Rose is up and down, he needs to be healthy and playing all star level basketball for them to be considered contenders. Or Butler needs to go from "wow, he's improved" to a legitimate elite talent. I don't see Butler doing that, not this season.

D.C and Toronto are the contenders in the East.


And yes, I'll take the Clippers, Memphis, Golden State, San Antonio, Portland, Phoenix and more from the West in a seven game playoff series over Chicago.

No..just no. You're just talking out of your *** now.

mjt20mik
11-21-2014, 12:01 AM
This is hilarious.

Firstly, I think the top tier is Chicago and Cleveland (title contenders). Then you have the second tier of possible contenders that can sneak in (Toronto, Washington, Miami). A healthy Chicago team and a fully integrated Cleveland team can of course give an west contender a run for their money.

Speaking of west though, I really only see SA, Memphis and Houston pushing to the finals. I'm still not sold on GS defensive abilities, and Dallas/Portland are again lower tiers than the previous three. Again, anything can happen.

Goose17
11-21-2014, 06:09 AM
Speaking of west though, I really only see SA, Memphis and Houston pushing to the finals. I'm still not sold on GS defensive abilities, and Dallas/Portland are again lower tiers than the previous three. Again, anything can happen.

First of all, Golden State have been one of the top defensive teams in the league for a couple of seasons now, catch up.

Secondly, I'm not saying Portland or Houston are making the finals over San Antonio I'm saying it's possible and if they were in the East they would cruise it. They ARE contenders they're just in a MUCH deeper and tougher conference. They could annihilate almost any Eastern conference team in a seven game series bar one, maybe two.

Goose17
11-21-2014, 06:22 AM
How is DC or Toronto better? And Jimmer Fredette was released last year ;)

LOL, no idea why my phone insists on autocorrecting Jimmy to Jimmer. Nice way to dodge the fact that you completely misread my post.

And they're better because they can hold they're great defensive AND offensive teams. Chicago without Rose is going to struggle on the offensive end, as they have done for a while now.

Last season;

Washington were 5th in the Eastern Conference for ORtg and 4th in the Eastern Conference for DRtg
Toronto were 2nd in the Eastern Conference for ORtg and 5th in the Eastern Conference for DRtg
Chicago were 13th in the Eastern Conference for ORtg and 2nd in the Eastern Conference for DRtg

This season;

Toronto are 1st in the Eastern Conference for ORtg and 3rd in the Eastern Conference for DRtg
Washington are 9th in the Eastern Conference for ORtg and 4th in the Eastern Conference for DRtg
Chicago are 4th in the Eastern Conference for ORtg and 5th in the Eastern Conference for DRtg

So Chicago have improved defensively, but Toronto have improved on both sides of the floor. D.C are still a question mark but without Rose I don't see why they aren't on par with Chicago. Both Toronto and D.C have done a better job at taking care of the ball and Toronto leads the East in free throws per field goal attempted. Toronto are also number one in the East for margin of victory.

Honestly I just think Toronto is the more well rounded team right now.

The difference will be made by Rose, if he is healthy then it's Toronto and Chicago contending. If he isn't then I think it's either Toronto and D.C or maybe Toronto and Cleveland.

I've been accused of sleeping on Miami a few times now... we'll see how that pans out.

Goose17
11-21-2014, 06:43 AM
Your opinion and a poor one. Again Chicago is one of the deepest teams in the league, has one of the top defenses in the league, has one of the best coaches in the league and has improved tremendously on offense. They can beat you in so many different ways in more than a one game series and if you think playoff experience means nothing then you are not even worth talking to because you have no clue what you're talking about. When all is said and done, Chicago will be a contender Washington and Toronto are good but not on the same level as Chicago.

1. I didn't say or mean that playoff experience means nothing. I'm saying the Chicago Bulls being eliminated in the first round of the Eastern Conference isn't exactly beneficial to them, they're playing in the weaker conference and have struggled to make it out of the first round. Meanwhile teams like Portland, LAC, Memphis etc have all been to the second round in the West which is a MUCH bigger feat. I don't see how Chicago have "more" experience, if anything they have less. The team that went to the conference finals is almost non-existent now. Korver, Deng, Boozer, Asik, Bogans. It's a completely different team now, and without Rose there's no reason to think they can get further than the second round, they haven't done for three seasons now. Noah and Taj are the only healthy players still currently on the roster from that deep run in 2010-11.

Since that conference final run they've been out of the first round once. And in the East that's just pathetic for a "contender". The only reason they're a "contender" is because they're one of the best of the worst. One of the best of a ****** conference with no depth to it at all. If they were in the West they would probably be a 5th/6th seed at best so how are they better in a seven game series than LAC? Houston? Portland? GSW? Memphis? SAS?


2. Yes, they're an elite defensive team, I never said otherwise. And yes, they have a good amount of depth. They have also improved offensively, like you say. But statistically Toronto still beat them in almost every defensive and offensive measurement. Toronto is definitely on the same level, at least. IMO they're beyond Chicago right now, out of their reach.

D.C are only on par really if Rose doesn't regain form.

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-21-2014, 09:42 AM
You are extremely overrating the Raptors right now. To say they're "out of the Bulls reach" is just ludicrous. I guess you missed that game last week.

Goose17
11-21-2014, 10:45 AM
You are extremely overrating the Raptors right now. To say they're "out of the Bulls reach" is just ludicrous. I guess you missed that game last week.


I mean in terms of longevity (through 82 games) and playoff ability.

Chicago with a healthy Rose is more than capable of beating Toronto in a seven game series.

You don't have to agree though. We're allowed to have different opinions, it's okay.

Vampirate
11-21-2014, 10:54 AM
You are extremely overrating the Raptors right now. To say they're "out of the Bulls reach" is just ludicrous. I guess you missed that game last week.

I agree with this and i'm a Raptors fan.

That aside it's encouraging to see what the Raptors are doing this season. In the East it looks like it'll be a battle between Chicago, Toronto, D.C., and Cleveland, maybe Miami. After that a whole lot of mediocrity and garbage.

cdnsportsfan
11-21-2014, 11:58 AM
In the East it looks like it'll be a battle between Chicago, Toronto, D.C., and Cleveland, maybe Miami. After that a whole lot of mediocrity and garbage.

So I am really interested in watching the East this season, this thread is still way too early but things should be more fun this season than it has been in a while!

When all squads are healthy the Bulls definitely look the most dangerous to me, plenty of talent and experience on top of an excellent coach. But I feel the health of Rose and Gasol will be an ongoing concern all season long and that definitely changes things. It's really unfortunate too, because those are two amazing athletes to watch out there.

I could see this conference being a complete toss-up between these 4-5 teams mentioned (though not totally sold on the Heat, they got the stars but lack the depth). Anyways once again it's still very early, but the way it's going right now at least nothing appears to be a given for this conference crown. No longer a two-horse race and I love seeing that!

Bartlee23
11-21-2014, 02:01 PM
1. I didn't say or mean that playoff experience means nothing. I'm saying the Chicago Bulls being eliminated in the first round of the Eastern Conference isn't exactly beneficial to them, they're playing in the weaker conference and have struggled to make it out of the first round. Meanwhile teams like Portland, LAC, Memphis etc have all been to the second round in the West which is a MUCH bigger feat. I don't see how Chicago have "more" experience, if anything they have less. The team that went to the conference finals is almost non-existent now. Korver, Deng, Boozer, Asik, Bogans. It's a completely different team now, and without Rose there's no reason to think they can get further than the second round, they haven't done for three seasons now. Noah and Taj are the only healthy players still currently on the roster from that deep run in 2010-11.

Since that conference final run they've been out of the first round once. And in the East that's just pathetic for a "contender". The only reason they're a "contender" is because they're one of the best of the worst. One of the best of a ****** conference with no depth to it at all. If they were in the West they would probably be a 5th/6th seed at best so how are they better in a seven game series than LAC? Houston? Portland? GSW? Memphis? SAS?


2. Yes, they're an elite defensive team, I never said otherwise. And yes, they have a good amount of depth. They have also improved offensively, like you say. But statistically Toronto still beat them in almost every defensive and offensive measurement. Toronto is definitely on the same level, at least. IMO they're beyond Chicago right now, out of their reach.

D.C are only on par really if Rose doesn't regain form.


You did say in one of your posts " I don't see what playoff experience has to do with it " I can retrieve it for you if you'd like. What you are failing to understand is Chicago not being out of the first round the last two years has NOTHING to do with this year. You bring up things like " Portland, LAC, Memphis etc. have all been to the second round in the West which is a MUCH bigger feat "... what does that have to do with what the outcome of this season is going to be? You do realize Rose didn't play the last two years right? That may have something to do with the outcome of their record/ playoff run. Some people even wanted them to tank last year so they would get a good pick.

The Chicago team that made it to the conference finals is almost non-existent for the good. Chicago now has a huge improvement in Gasol over Boozer, Butler and Dunleavy have stepped into Deng and Korver's roles perfectly, Chicago has a stronger bench, defensive player of the year Noah, Gibson would be a starting power forward on most teams, Brooks has been huge.... I could go on and on. This team is better than that team and we haven't even seen them at full peak yet with everyone healthy.

" But statistically Toronto still beat them in almost every defensive and offensive measurement. Toronto is definitely on the same level, at least " ok so which is it? Do you do any research on ANYTHING before you post? you seem to backtrack a lot.

I don't know if you have some kind of personal grudge against Chicago, you won't be the first person I've seen but it's your opinion and IMO it's not correct and I could prove you wrong. Chicago is the best team in the East and will be a contender. My suggestion to you is do a little research before you go running your mouth because I don't see a lot of people agreeing with anything you've said.

Shammyguy3
11-21-2014, 03:45 PM
And they're better because they can hold they're great defensive AND offensive teams. Chicago without Rose is going to struggle on the offensive end, as they have done for a while now.

Last season;

Washington were 5th in the Eastern Conference for ORtg and 4th in the Eastern Conference for DRtg
Toronto were 2nd in the Eastern Conference for ORtg and 5th in the Eastern Conference for DRtg
Chicago were 13th in the Eastern Conference for ORtg and 2nd in the Eastern Conference for DRtg

Last season's numbers mean very little for Washington/Chicago with their roster turnovers.


This season;

Toronto are 1st in the Eastern Conference for ORtg and 3rd in the Eastern Conference for DRtg
Washington are 9th in the Eastern Conference for ORtg and 4th in the Eastern Conference for DRtg
Chicago are 4th in the Eastern Conference for ORtg and 5th in the Eastern Conference for DRtg

So Chicago have improved defensively, but Toronto have improved on both sides of the floor. D.C are still a question mark but without Rose I don't see why they aren't on par with Chicago. Both Toronto and D.C have done a better job at taking care of the ball and Toronto leads the East in free throws per field goal attempted. Toronto are also number one in the East for margin of victory.

Using these ratings with only a 10-12 game sample size this early into the season when teams have sustained injuries won't change anyone's opinion. And there's a reason why Toronto takes care of the ball: They're LAST in the league in assists! They never pass the ball. And because of that, there's absolutely no reason for them to continue this success on offense. I don't trust it, they're one of the highest ISO teams in the league.


Honestly I just think Toronto is the more well rounded team right now.

I disagree completely with this. Toronto is not more well rounded than the Bulls.


The difference will be made by Rose, if he is healthy then it's Toronto and Chicago contending. If he isn't then I think it's either Toronto and D.C or maybe Toronto and Cleveland.

I've been accused of sleeping on Miami a few times now... we'll see how that pans out.

Even without rose I'd take Chicago over Toronto in a series because of how well-rounded the Bulls are, how great their passing is, their offensive hierarchy, and their better bench. Not to mention, the Bulls' defensive bigs are better than Toronto's and there is nobody on Toronto that can matchup with Pau Gasol, Taj Gibson, and Nikola Mirotic when the Bulls are on offense.

I think Toronto's a really good team, they'll have the 3rd seed in the East come April. But I don't think they're better than the Bulls and I don't think using a 10 game sample size this early into the season is a smart thing to do.

Confusious
11-21-2014, 03:45 PM
Chicago has proved that they can't do ANYTHING in the playoffs. They aren't threats at all.

ILLUSIONIST^248
11-21-2014, 03:53 PM
Chicago has proved that they can't do ANYTHING in the playoffs. They aren't threats at all.

They're going to feast on Cleveland this year.

Confusious
11-21-2014, 03:58 PM
They're going to feast on Cleveland this year.
And they still have no answer for LeBron or Kevin. And Rose couldn't beat Kyrie even if he was at his MVP level.

benny01
11-21-2014, 03:59 PM
Chicago has proved that they can't do ANYTHING in the playoffs. They aren't threats at all.

Except win 6 more championships than Cleveland.

None of the teams in the east have done anything as currently constructed.

Confusious
11-21-2014, 04:03 PM
Except win 6 more championships than Cleveland.

None of the teams in the east have done anything as currently constructed.
And how many championships did they win without Michael and PJ? Oh, right. I just heard the toilet flush. Get that **** out of my face.

Munkeysuit
11-21-2014, 04:08 PM
Bulls aren't the only threat, I would say that the Raptors are a legitimate threat as well. I picked the Bulls coming out of the East to head to the Finals this year, but watching the Raptors play a few games and I have to say that I was caught by surprise at how good they really are and now I am starting to think that the Bulls might have a hard time beating them in a 7 game series.

benny01
11-21-2014, 04:14 PM
And how many championships did they win without Michael and PJ? Oh, right. I just heard the toilet flush. Get that **** out of my face.
So one more chip than the cavs have wins, or the same amount of chips Bron's brought to cleveland. I'd ask how many playoff series Cleveland's won without Lebron, but seeing as how you've been a Cavs fan for all of six months I imagine I could say any number I wished an you wouldn't know any better. Your the one trolling here no need to get your panties in a bunch.

Goose17
11-21-2014, 04:21 PM
You did say in one of your posts " I don't see what playoff experience has to do with it " I can retrieve it for you if you'd like.

Yes I did, meaning that I don't understand what it has to do with the argument in favour of Chicago because they don't have any more experience than the teams I mentioned.



You do realize Rose didn't play the last two years right? That may have something to do with the outcome of their record/ playoff run.

Yes I do. Which is why I said IF Rose is healthy things change. I said this several times, you really should read posts before responding.




The Chicago team that made it to the conference finals is almost non-existent for the good.

I never said if it was a bad or good change. I said the point about them having more playoff experience is B.S, they have as much as any other team I've mentioned and their deepest run was with people that are no longer on the roster aside from 3 of them, and only 2 of those 3 are healthy.




" But statistically Toronto still beat them in almost every defensive and offensive measurement. Toronto is definitely on the same level, at least " ok so which is it? Do you do any research on ANYTHING before you post? you seem to backtrack a lot.

How am I back tracking? You're not even making sense here. I feel they're head and shoulders better than Chicago, other don't, that's fine. But at the very least they are on par with them, any other suggestion is foolish.




I don't know if you have some kind of personal grudge against Chicago

Not at all, if I had to pick a team in the East to back it would probably be Chicago, I really like them.




it's your opinion and IMO it's not correct and I could prove you wrong.

Then please do. Instead of waffling and misunderstanding my points.




Chicago is the best team in the East and will be a contender. My suggestion to you is do a little research before you go running your mouth because I don't see a lot of people agreeing with anything you've said.

No they're not. They're third in their conference, how does that make them the best? :/

I have done plenty of research and have presented all of it here, whether or not you agree with it I don't care. And I especially don't care if nobody agrees with me. Nobody agreed with me when I said Klay was better than Lance, but I'm still right about that. Great minds don't think alike they think differently, public opinion never meant **** to me.

And how am I "running my mouth"? Do you even know what that phrase means? I'm just stating my opinion, you don't have to agree, nobody does. But it's still my opinion, get over it.

Confusious
11-21-2014, 04:22 PM
Bulls fans are really salty with me, I mean damn. Do you have anything new besides "Cavs fan for 6 months"? I mean, even if it was true, it's getting old after the 20th time now. I know you guys lack originality, but damn.

Also, you do know LeBron led the Cavs to the Finals, almost single handedly before? But oh right, I wouldn't know that, since I've only been a fan for 6 months. :laugh: And news flash, that was more than Rose has done for your Bulls. With A LOT more help. But keep reaching.

72 Wins
11-21-2014, 04:26 PM
Bulls fans are really salty with me, I mean damn. Do you have anything new besides "Cavs fan for 6 months"? I mean, even if it was true, it's getting old after the 20th time now. I know you guys lack originality, but damn.

Also, you do know LeBron led the Cavs to the Finals, almost single handedly before? But oh right, I wouldn't know that, since I've only been a fan for 6 months. :laugh: And news flash, that was more than Rose has done for your Bulls. With A LOT more help. But keep reaching.

I agree with you, we haven't proven sh**t. But seriously, how are you a Canadian Cavs fan? Obviously you have jumped on the bandwagon. Embrace it. There is no shame in that.

Goose17
11-21-2014, 04:27 PM
I agree with you, we haven't proven sh**t. But seriously, how are you a Canadian Cavs fan? Obviously you have jumped the bandwagon. Embrace it. There is no shame in that.

He doesn't need to be from Cleveland to be a fan of the cavs. Teams have fans from all over America and the world.

72 Wins
11-21-2014, 04:28 PM
He doesn't need to be from Cleveland to be a fan of the cavs. Teams have fans from all over America and the world.

Obviously he doesn't need to be from Cleveland, but why would anyone jump on the Cavs? It makes no rationale sense other then jumping on the Lebron bandwagon...

Confusious
11-21-2014, 04:31 PM
He doesn't need to be from Cleveland to be a fan of the cavs. Teams have fans from all over America and the world.
Correct. Nor was I ever from Chicago when I liked watching the Bulls. No Bulls fans ever questioned me then, though. Which is cute.

I don't put stock in the narrowminded mindset that you HAVE to cheer for your hometown team. Or the closest thing to. It's like saying you can only date people of your race. Or are interracial relationships also a complete question mark to you guys?


I agree with you, we haven't proven sh**t. But seriously, how are you a Canadian Cavs fan? Obviously you have jumped on the bandwagon. Embrace it. There is no shame in that.
It's not a bandwagon to like another team. You guys have established that I've been off this site for two years. Which is true. And you've drawn up a somewhat logical, but convenient similarity that I've only recently become a Cavs fan. What if I've been cheering for them the last two years? What, you don't think I don't LOVE Kyrie Irving, and needed LBJ to come back to be baited back to them? It's all conspiracy theories and obviously I couldn't convince anybody otherwise. And I don't really care.

I just think it's stupid how the topic ALWAYS turns back to what team I cheer for, and how "long" I have been doing so. It's immature, and stupid. My off-colour remarks towards everything I say about Chicago has at least some reason, or purpose. Whether any of you would like to believe it or not.

Goose17
11-21-2014, 04:41 PM
Obviously he doesn't need to be from Cleveland, but why would anyone jump on the Cavs? It makes no rationale sense other then jumping on the Lebron bandwagon...

I live in the U.K and I picked the Warriors because I saw some old Run TMC footage and saw Mullins play, loved the way they played, loved that they were an underdog. 15 years later I'm still loyal to them.

I know a guy that supports Milwaukee.

People don't always just go with the most successful teams.

He'll I even know Knicks fans that became fans simply because it's New York. I know a New Orleans fan that became a fan just because they had a family member that lived there for a couple years and they bought them a New Orleans tee as a gift when he was a kid. He followed them ever since.

People have all sorts of reasons for following teams. You shouldn't be so presumptuous and just jump to conclusions like that.

benny01
11-21-2014, 04:43 PM
Bulls fans are really salty with me, I mean damn. Do you have anything new besides "Cavs fan for 6 months"? I mean, even if it was true, it's getting old after the 20th time now. I know you guys lack originality, but damn.

Also, you do know LeBron led the Cavs to the Finals, almost single handedly before? But oh right, I wouldn't know that, since I've only been a fan for 6 months. :laugh: And news flash, that was more than Rose has done for your Bulls. With A LOT more help. But keep reaching.
Who's reaching? and for what? You made some stupid troll comment as you generally do and I poked a hole in it. You then proceeded to get,(ahh what did all the girls say when they had sandy vagina's in grade school) salty. The fact is that no premier team in the east has any meaningful playoff with the exception of Toronto, who I think needs another year to contend. I just generally respond to factless meaningless spewing of trolls with factual meaningless spewing. I don't believe for a minute that the Bulls are the only threat in the east, but to pretend that they aren't a legitimate threat is kinda ****ing stupid.

benny01
11-21-2014, 05:11 PM
He doesn't need to be from Cleveland to be a fan of the cavs. Teams have fans from all over America and the world.
I don't care what team he roots for or why for that matter. When you come into a thread and say the Bulls have proven that they suck in the playoffs or whatever he said, and provide nothing to the actual converation it's just baiting/trolling.
The conversation was about playoff experience, which is a pretty dumb arguement anyway unless your talking about a young team made up of a bunch of guys who haven't been there consistently. It's even more stupid considering that only 4 or 5 of the players on his team have ever been there(2 starters and 3 guys who average 30 min combined).

Goose17
11-21-2014, 05:45 PM
I don't care what team he roots for or why for that matter. When you come into a thread and say the Bulls have proven that they suck in the playoffs or whatever he said, and provide nothing to the actual converation it's just baiting/trolling.
The conversation was about playoff experience, which is a pretty dumb arguement anyway unless your talking about a young team made up of a bunch of guys who haven't been there consistently. It's even more stupid considering that only 4 or 5 of the players on his team have ever been there(2 starters and 3 guys who average 30 min combined).

I agree with all of that.

chitownbulls
11-21-2014, 05:51 PM
:d

Bartlee23
11-21-2014, 06:37 PM
Yes I did, meaning that I don't understand what it has to do with the argument in favour of Chicago because they don't have any more experience than the teams I mentioned.




Yes I do. Which is why I said IF Rose is healthy things change. I said this several times, you really should read posts before responding.




I never said if it was a bad or good change. I said the point about them having more playoff experience is B.S, they have as much as any other team I've mentioned and their deepest run was with people that are no longer on the roster aside from 3 of them, and only 2 of those 3 are healthy.




How am I back tracking? You're not even making sense here. I feel they're head and shoulders better than Chicago, other don't, that's fine. But at the very least they are on par with them, any other suggestion is foolish.




Not at all, if I had to pick a team in the East to back it would probably be Chicago, I really like them.




Then please do. Instead of waffling and misunderstanding my points.




No they're not. They're third in their conference, how does that make them the best? :/

I have done plenty of research and have presented all of it here, whether or not you agree with it I don't care. And I especially don't care if nobody agrees with me. Nobody agreed with me when I said Klay was better than Lance, but I'm still right about that. Great minds don't think alike they think differently, public opinion never meant **** to me.

And how am I "running my mouth"? Do you even know what that phrase means? I'm just stating my opinion, you don't have to agree, nobody does. But it's still my opinion, get over it.


Ok... so by your logic, San Antonio is the 6th best team in the West now because of their record? Are you serious? You are definitely entitled to your opinion and I could care less about " Klay vs Lance " or whatever you want to spew out but Chicago's team up and down is a contender. Washington and Toronto are great teams but don't have players with playoff experience THAT DOES MEAN SOMETHING, don't have the depth, defense or coaching of Chicago. Chicago is just as good as those teams offensively too.

If you're basing how good a team is by the small sample size right now and their records than whatever, you just don't have a clue. Let's wait until all-star break. Remember Chicago is doing this NOT at 100% so far.

Goose17
11-21-2014, 06:59 PM
Umm.. Both Toronto and D.C have players with playoff experience. Ever heard of a guy called Paul Pierce? They were both playoff teams last year, that doesn't count as experience?

They have as much experience as the majority of the Chicago roster. Toronto also has depth. And they're both very good defensive teams. They're not far off Chicago defensively especially Toronto. But they're both good defensive teams. See the stats I posted earlier for more reference.

And I already said if Rose is healthy it's a whole other story. I've said it multiple times. Do you actually read entire posts or do you just skim through them?

And I'm not just basing it on 12 games. I've been asked to make a prediction and based on last season plus these 12 games, right now my money is on Toronto and maybe D.C ...that might change as the season goes on, anything can happen and Chicago are a great squad. But for now, that's my prediction.

You said you were going to prove me wrong... Please do so. You've yet to even attempt it.

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-21-2014, 07:11 PM
And they still have no answer for LeBron or Kevin. And Rose couldn't beat Kyrie even if he was at his MVP level.

Rose has shitted on Kyrie every time they've faced each other. Kyrie literally ***** his pants when he has to defend Rose, which he obviously can't. Rose on the other hand, is a superior defender and handles the PGs he has to guard pretty well.

Bartlee23
11-21-2014, 08:52 PM
[QUOTE=Goose17;29287409]Umm.. Both Toronto and D.C have players with playoff experience. Ever heard of a guy called Paul Pierce? They were both playoff teams last year, that doesn't count as experience?

They have as much experience as the majority of the Chicago roster. Toronto also has depth. And they're both very good defensive teams. They're not far off Chicago defensively especially Toronto. But they're both good defensive teams. See the stats I posted earlier for more reference.

And I already said if Rose is healthy it's a whole other story. I've said it multiple times. Do you actually read entire posts or do you just skim through them?

And I'm not just basing it on 12 games. I've been asked to make a prediction and based on last season plus these 12 games, right now my money is on Toronto and maybe D.C ...that might change as the season goes on, anything can happen and Chicago are a great squad. But for now, that's my prediction.

You said you were going to prove me wrong... Please do so. You've yet to even attempt it.


Ok.... this will be my final response to you so you can keep on talking or whatever, I could care less. The whole reason why I responded to you in the first place was because of some ridiculous things you've said that not only I've pointed out.

" And yes, I'll take the Clippers, Memphis, Golden State, San Antonio, Portland, Phoenix and more from the West in a seven game playoff series over Chicago. "

" D.C and Toronto are the contenders in the East. "

" Yes, they're an elite defensive team, I never said otherwise. And yes, they have a good amount of depth. They have also improved offensively, like you say. But statistically Toronto still beat them in almost every defensive and offensive measurement. Toronto is definitely on the same level, at least. IMO they're beyond Chicago right now, out of their reach "

" Since that conference final run they've been out of the first round once. And in the East that's just pathetic for a "contender". The only reason they're a "contender" is because they're one of the best of the worst. "

" No they're not. They're third in their conference, how does that make them the best? "

" They have as much experience as the majority of the Chicago roster. "

These are an assortment of quotes of your " logic." Let's go through a couple of them...

1. Half of those teams you listed are going nowhere. If you don't know that then I just don't what to say and that is just a slap in the face to not only Chicago fans but NBA fans. That was a very ignorant/ unintelligent statement.

2. Chicago whether you agree or not IS a contender. They've been playing with a roster that has had players miss several games yet they still are a top team in the league. Just think when everyone comes back....

3. Too early to judge " offense/defense " but for now I'd give the upper hand in defense to Chicago with Toronto the upper hand in offensive.

4. Chicago is " the best of the worst?" First they're " not a contender ", then they're " the best of the worst " then you " liked them all a long "..... I don't understand ???? Which is it?

5. They're third in the conference record wise so by your logic they're third best in the Eastern Conference. I see...... that's how it works. Thanks for explaining that to me. So San Antonio is the 6th best team in the West because of their record.....

6. Washington has a handful of significant players that have made in to the second round of the playoffs and 40 year old world champion Pierce and Toronto has yet to make it out of the first round. Chicago has a handful of players that have made it to the conference finals including deep runs in the playoffs a world champion.

I don't have you " prove " anything to you because I already have. Chicago's roster has a defensive player of the year, an all-star power forward, an up and coming star in Butler, an improved bench, an improved offensive, a top defense, and a top coach. I agree with you that Rose does need to contribute something but anything he can give at this point is bonus to a very strong roster. Saying " Chicago is not a contender" is foolish IMO but if it's yours then so be it.

Good luck to you and your Warriors. I LOVE Curry !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

koreancabbage
11-22-2014, 09:36 AM
Okay, quit targeting me you're becoming annoying as ****. before you run your mouth off, you should read my other posts. Ive posted in the raptor game threads how although they've been winning, their ability to play defense, and pass the ball cannnot be disregarded. They've been winning ugly and I am aware of that. just because Ive said " hey they should at least be part of the discussion" as they reside at the top of their conference, it's strictly based on potential, I didnt say the raptors are lock to compeat for a championship.
Instead of calling other people homers, read all my posts if you're going to continue to single out me like that. Ive been critical of the raptors during every win, go read my posts before you throw the homer card out there. THanks.

Thats just what everyone thinks about you in the NBA forum btw.

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-22-2014, 10:43 AM
I think this thread was premature to begin with. This is a question best served for at least until the all-star break.

Miltstar
11-22-2014, 10:59 AM
Anyone who watched the Raps **** all over the Bucks last night knows their for real... Jason Kidd was quoted saying "they're the best team in the East" Meanwhile Washington simply outclassed Cleveland and Chicago dropped another one (and another player).