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View Full Version : Can you no longer hit/punish kids?!??!



jimm120
11-17-2014, 08:03 PM
http://prosportsdaily.com/articles/dwight-howard-doctor-concluded-basketball-star-abused-his-child--329953.html

Dwight Howard disciplined his kid and hit him with a belt. Not harsh at all.

Adrian Peterson might have taken it a bit too far because it did cause blood (though surely something very small) to come out.

But since when is child abuse when you discipline your child and hit them once or twice (in a controlled way and a place where it won't cause other injuries).

I always considered "child abuse" to be when you're constantly hitting someone or using excessive force.

Not this thing that the media is doing.


So, what say you guys. Are these players getting a bad rep from the Media?

Shady66
11-17-2014, 08:18 PM
I think spanking is necessary in this day and age kids are more obnoxious and dumber than ever. Obviously not to the point of assault lol but until he realizes their are consequences to his/her actions. My dad never actually got his belt on me when I was a kid, it was just a scare tactic.

jerellh528
11-17-2014, 08:19 PM
I think you can swat them on their bum with your hand. Using weapons is excessive.

JEDean89
11-17-2014, 08:22 PM
something like spanking doesn't seem to be illegal but if you are abusing your child physically to the point where there are visable wounds then you are comitting child abuse. i'm not sure exactly what the law is but imo no parent should draw blood or leave serious bruises.

abe_froman
11-17-2014, 08:22 PM
a long time ago.a few quick swats is one thing(though frowned upon/considered abuse by most),but upping that to something hard or using objects(switches,belts,ect.) has been child abuse for...well as long as i've been alive

personally,i've never understood the desire to hit them in anyway

Jamiecballer
11-17-2014, 08:36 PM
You can spank if you like. I just think grownups should be able to do better than that.

PurpleLynch
11-17-2014, 08:42 PM
Oh god,a shitstorm is coming to the Nba...we'll see how Silver will handle things. Anyway, the doctor said that the bruises were over the edge. Plus,who **** uses a belt to educate children? There are more ways of educating a child and a soft spanking can be allowed(analyzing the context of the spank first),but a belt? Come on!

InRoseWeTrust
11-17-2014, 09:04 PM
Using a belt to the point that it leaves a mark for over 24 hours is crossing a line, imo.

5ass
11-17-2014, 09:19 PM
Using a belt to the point that it leaves a mark for over 24 hours is crossing a line, imo.

Yeah that's probably right. Its more about shaming them then hurting them. Unfortunately some parents lose sight of that and take out their frustrations on the kid.

Seizabmc
11-17-2014, 09:34 PM
Now a days I think kids would rather be spanked than if you were to take away there Vidio games or I phones or comps.

For my lil man, if I take away his basketball than he learns his lesson real quick.

koreancabbage
11-17-2014, 09:34 PM
kids nowadays are so freaking entitled lol. need some discipline. I got the back end of a fly swatter to the hands and butt when i got in trouble.

You see these stories of kids nowadays running roughshod on parents in stores and on the streets, totally disrespecting them. Gotta put them in their place even if it was light spanking (obviously there is overboard with this as people go way too far in their discipline)

JasonJohnHorn
11-17-2014, 09:39 PM
Anytime you start a thread with "beating a kid with a belt isn't that harsh", you are NOT going to go in a good direction.


Look... there are going to be people who say "I got spanked". Ok... were you beat so badly with a belt that a doctor declared it abuse?

Look... hitting kids is not cool... when they are young, you spank them to keep away from a hot stove and stuff like that... but if you have a child who is old enough to understand what they did, beating them is not an option. Period. You have to teach them to understand what they did and why it was wrong. Beating them is just going to teach them that violence is an appropriate response and that all they did wrong was get caught.


And if they are so young that they don't understand, then beating them with a belt is not going to correct anything.

Howard_Zinn
11-17-2014, 10:48 PM
I have 2 great kids and I've never had to spank them.. If parents are involved in their kids lives it's not needed.. I also am in my 30's and grew up getting them.. When I had my own I chose not to do it..

Howard_Zinn
11-17-2014, 10:53 PM
I couldn't imagine raising my hand to my little man either.. Both my kids are my life, but my boy is my best friend on this planet.. I'm most relaxed when just hanging out with him.. Kids just want your attention, that's it. Sadly, most parents nowadays have their faces stuck in their phones..

DemarDerozan
11-17-2014, 10:57 PM
Anytime you start a thread with "beating a kid with a belt isn't that harsh", you are NOT going to go in a good direction.


Look... there are going to be people who say "I got spanked". Ok... were you beat so badly with a belt that a doctor declared it abuse?

Look... hitting kids is not cool... when they are young, you spank them to keep away from a hot stove and stuff like that... but if you have a child who is old enough to understand what they did, beating them is not an option. Period. You have to teach them to understand what they did and why it was wrong. Beating them is just going to teach them that violence is an appropriate response and that all they did wrong was get caught.


And if they are so young that they don't understand, then beating them with a belt is not going to correct anything.

Again JJH... You have stated my point for me and saved me from exploding in an expletive laden response to Neanderthal logic. Cheers Bro for keeping it classy and sensible.

bucketss
11-17-2014, 10:58 PM
i use to get beat with coat hangers, belts, sandles, extension cords, long sticks, and even got hit with a bible once.

DemarDerozan
11-17-2014, 11:08 PM
But since I am not a gentlemen and only a scholar by default... Anyone who defends child abuse in any form is a ****ing degenerate. You should take a long look in the mirror and evaluate your own mental state, if you have kids and subject them to abuse... Then you should get help. Or give your kids to someone who will exact proper custody.

DemarDerozan
11-17-2014, 11:10 PM
i use to get beat with coat hangers, belts, sandles, extension cords, long sticks, and even got hit with a bible once.

Bro... If that's true you should look into behavioral counseling. I'm sorry you had to experience that.

cmellofan15
11-17-2014, 11:38 PM
i use to get beat with coat hangers, belts, sandles, extension cords, long sticks, and even got hit with a bible once.

I got belts, shoes, kitchen utensils, and sticks. I never thought it was much of a problem but......

what happened where you got hit with a bible? was it just an instance of 'grab the closest object and use it' or was there some kind of weird reasoning behind it?

bucketss
11-18-2014, 12:26 AM
I got belts, shoes, kitchen utensils, and sticks. I never thought it was much of a problem but......

what happened where you got hit with a bible? was it just an instance of 'grab the closest object and use it' or was there some kind of weird reasoning behind it?

yeah thats what happened.

Hawkeye15
11-18-2014, 01:16 AM
today's people are *******. Period.

Goose17
11-18-2014, 03:05 AM
Anytime you start a thread with "beating a kid with a belt isn't that harsh", you are NOT going to go in a good direction.


Look... there are going to be people who say "I got spanked". Ok... were you beat so badly with a belt that a doctor declared it abuse?

Look... hitting kids is not cool... when they are young, you spank them to keep away from a hot stove and stuff like that... but if you have a child who is old enough to understand what they did, beating them is not an option. Period. You have to teach them to understand what they did and why it was wrong. Beating them is just going to teach them that violence is an appropriate response and that all they did wrong was get caught.


And if they are so young that they don't understand, then beating them with a belt is not going to correct anything.

What he said^

Goose17
11-18-2014, 03:08 AM
I wonder if this is why KD called him a *****...

Tony_Starks
11-18-2014, 03:19 AM
It's called a whoopin. Ask a black dude, he'll tell you all about it.....

Sneaky
11-18-2014, 03:21 AM
Anytime you start a thread with "beating a kid with a belt isn't that harsh", you are NOT going to go in a good direction.


Look... there are going to be people who say "I got spanked". Ok... were you beat so badly with a belt that a doctor declared it abuse?

Look... hitting kids is not cool... when they are young, you spank them to keep away from a hot stove and stuff like that... but if you have a child who is old enough to understand what they did, beating them is not an option. Period. You have to teach them to understand what they did and why it was wrong. Beating them is just going to teach them that violence is an appropriate response and that all they did wrong was get caught.


And if they are so young that they don't understand, then beating them with a belt is not going to correct anything.

My mom let me touch the stove one time so I wouldn't do it again. She says I never did it again.

You're right though.

jp611
11-18-2014, 03:30 AM
If you can't talk to your kids and reason w/ them. You probably shouldn't be a parent. Spanking is one thing. Beating w/ a belt/switch/etc. is abuse and wrong. No need to lay your hands on your kids if you just talk to them and teach them things.

jp611
11-18-2014, 03:32 AM
today's people are educated. Period.

fify

0nekhmer
11-18-2014, 08:01 AM
Depending how far the kid goes. I wouldn't want my child to be scared of me to the point he/she couldn't come and talk to me about their problems or just anything. I'm sure if you raise a child properly from young, they'll be fine. It's the lazy ones that turn to violence. I'll say my dad used to hit me every now and then when i would do something really stupid. Although it worked in me respecting his authority, and not doing those things again, but it created a distance from him in that I was afraid to talk to him about anything like bullying, school, girls, etc.

JasonJohnHorn
11-18-2014, 08:28 AM
Again JJH... You have stated my point for me and saved me from exploding in an expletive laden response to Neanderthal logic. Cheers Bro for keeping it classy and sensible.

You are very welcome my fellow Cancuck!

JasonJohnHorn
11-18-2014, 08:29 AM
i use to get beat with coat hangers, belts, sandles, extension cords, long sticks, and even got hit with a bible once.

That is an ironic use for a Bible.

JasonJohnHorn
11-18-2014, 08:34 AM
It's called a whoopin. Ask a black dude, he'll tell you all about it.....

Much abuse in the Black community is a cultural extension of the slave era. When slave owners and drivers didn't get what they want out of a slave they beat them. In the slave community, if a man wants his wife or children to listen to him, he had to mirror behaviour of the slaver because slaves were taught that violence is the way you get what you want.

Now if you want to perpetuate slave culture by using a euphemistic like 'whoopin' to describe BEING BEAT WITH A BELT, then go ahead, but for the record, all you are doing is propagating the tradition of abuse handed down by slave owners.

PhillyFaninLA
11-18-2014, 08:54 AM
I hope the TC does not have kids....beating your child is not discipline, its assault....its creating fear and resentment not discipline and understanding

Kinkotheclown
11-18-2014, 09:10 AM
Yeah that's probably right. Its more about shaming them then hurting them. Unfortunately some parents lose sight of that and take out their frustrations on the kid.

I think shaming is worse. That builds deep, dark issues that can f' up the way you interact and feel about yourself. I think spanking is fine within limits.

I do completely agree that a belt till bleeding is too far. THere is a huge difference between punishment and a parent venting aggression on their child.
A 7 foot monster doesn't need a belt to punish his kid but it is Howard so he might have been too lazy to bend over and too soft to use his own hand.

The NBA letting this slide in the eyes of what is going on in the NFL is a bit strange.

jimm120
11-18-2014, 09:15 AM
E question here is the DEFINITION of child abuse.

I can count with my fingers how many times I was actually hit. Maybe twice with a belt on the legs and maybe 4 times a slap to the leg/butt by my mom and 2-3 times a small slap to the face by my mom when I was older (teen).

And each one was significant enough to have me remember each event and what I did wrong and to never do it again. And none of these, IMO, I'd classify as abuse.

I just feel that these people nowadays are classifying a simple slap to a body part or hit once or twice with a belt as abuse.

Again, I'd understand if it was repeated times. Every day. Every week. But it usually isn't. I'd also understand if they go a bit overboard, such as in the Adrian Peterson and his "switch", in which he hit him so much, that it caused a bit a blood.

So, don't derail the convo. It's about what is classified as abuse and I think the media is going overboard on what they consider abuse.

mike_noodles
11-18-2014, 09:21 AM
Pretty sure that lots of studies have shown that any spanking has negative effects on a child.

jerellh528
11-18-2014, 09:25 AM
Pretty sure that lots of studies have shown that any spanking has negative effects on a child.

I think I read it has positive effects up until age 6 or something like that

mike_noodles
11-18-2014, 09:28 AM
E question here is the DEFINITION of child abuse.

I can count with my fingers how many times I was actually hit. Maybe twice with a belt on the legs and maybe 4 times a slap to the leg/butt by my mom and 2-3 times a small slap to the face by my mom when I was older (teen).

And each one was significant enough to have me remember each event and what I did wrong and to never do it again. And none of these, IMO, I'd classify as abuse.

I just feel that these people nowadays are classifying a simple slap to a body part or hit once or twice with a belt as abuse.

Again, I'd understand if it was repeated times. Every day. Every week. But it usually isn't. I'd also understand if they go a bit overboard, such as in the Adrian Peterson and his "switch", in which he hit him so much, that it caused a bit a blood.

So, don't derail the convo. It's about what is classified as abuse and I think the media is going overboard on what they consider abuse.

Hitting a child with any type of weapon is abuse. Dwight used the buckle of a belt, that's abuse. Peterson, used a switch that's abuse. Guess what, if you hit me, your wife or your friend with an open hand anywhere on our bodies, that's assault. Why is it only not assault when you do it to a child in your care? How absurd is it that the only person you can hit is your child? It's crazy.

mike_noodles
11-18-2014, 09:30 AM
I think I read it has positive effects up until age 6 or something like that

Teaching a child to solve problems by asserting physical force is always counter productive.

MonroeFAN
11-18-2014, 09:52 AM
You can do whatever you want assuming you get away with it.

cssdmark
11-18-2014, 10:06 AM
No but the kids are allowed to hit the parents

curtcocaine
11-18-2014, 10:13 AM
Okay black gut here. I used to get beat I mean beat. I recall Christmas eve my mom gave me a concussion ouch. Im strongly against child abuse there are to many alternatives. Speak to your kids, give them nice things that your able to take away. Most importantly be a friend and a parent, so when your kid messes up you can sit down and share your disappointment. Yes AP abused his kid D12 abused his kid. Physically and mentally. Your not supposed to get hit by someone you have unconditional love for. Thats like coping with your kidnapper. I tell friends and family beating your kids is like eating chitlins WE DON'T HAVE TO ANY MORE SLAVERY DAYS ARE OVER! !!!

Hawkeye15
11-18-2014, 10:48 AM
fify

nope, sorry. I am not saying beat your kids, but I got the belt, was spanked, and I have zip social issues. Sorry, not every kid cares about getting in trouble when all it means is mom and dad sitting them down and telling them how much their actions hurt their feelings....

Hawkeye15
11-18-2014, 10:50 AM
Pretty sure that lots of studies have shown that any spanking has negative effects on a child.

show me those studies please. Myself, and all of my siblings were spanked, and got the belt. We are all college grads, with careers, no social issues, no criminal past, etc, etc. I think at around a certain age (pretty young), you drop that, it doesn't have an impact anymore, but to say its proven that spanking your kids has a negative effect on them later is downright ********.

Spankings aren't for every kid. My parents didn't spank me after age 4, I just laughed at them when they did it. But it worked on my brother, and one of my sisters.

Hawkeye15
11-18-2014, 10:51 AM
Teaching a child to solve problems by asserting physical force is always counter productive.

how is that teaching a kid to solve problems with physical force?

The Captain
11-18-2014, 10:52 AM
This thread sucks! People discussing realtive cultural morality on Internet sports forums sucks! No one gives a **** about your own upbringing or beliefs! I was spanked, hit with household objects, nothing I would consider ABUSE. Yes, even as a kid I knew the difference between getting a spanking I DESERVED and CHILD ABUSE. Anyone give a ****? Didn't think so! Because nobody gives a **** about these issues until it affects a rich and famous athlete and the media sponsors it. Go crawl back into your politically correct holes, stop telling people how to live their lives or raise their kids, because you actually know ZERO facts about these cases and it's none of your goddamn business anyway.

The Captain
11-18-2014, 10:53 AM
show me those studies please. Myself, and all of my siblings were spanked, and got the belt. We are all college grads, with careers, no social issues, no criminal past, etc, etc. I think at around a certain age (pretty young), you drop that, it doesn't have an impact anymore, but to say its proven that spanking your kids has a negative effect on them later is downright ********.

Spankings aren't for every kid. My parents didn't spank me after age 4, I just laughed at them when they did it. But it worked on my brother, and one of my sisters.

Amen.

The Captain
11-18-2014, 10:57 AM
It's called a whoopin. Ask a black dude, he'll tell you all about it.....

Yeah, ask a black dude. Or a white dude. Or a latino dude. Oh, you're not familiar with the beatings-by-race dichotomy? Shame.

valade16
11-18-2014, 12:21 PM
Anytime you start a thread with "beating a kid with a belt isn't that harsh", you are NOT going to go in a good direction.

Look... there are going to be people who say "I got spanked". Ok... were you beat so badly with a belt that a doctor declared it abuse?

Look... hitting kids is not cool... when they are young, you spank them to keep away from a hot stove and stuff like that... but if you have a child who is old enough to understand what they did, beating them is not an option. Period. You have to teach them to understand what they did and why it was wrong. Beating them is just going to teach them that violence is an appropriate response and that all they did wrong was get caught.

And if they are so young that they don't understand, then beating them with a belt is not going to correct anything.

This is one of the biggest fallacies of any anti-spanking argument. The idea that you can ONLY either spank your kids or sit down and tell them why what they did was wrong.

Newsflash: you can do both. You can spank your child and then calmly and rationally talk to them about what they did wrong, why they were being punished and how to handle the situation better in the future.


I hope the TC does not have kids....beating your child is not discipline, its assault....its creating fear and resentment not discipline and understanding

Were you ever spanked as a child?

If not, how do you know these things?

If so, do you feel fear and resentment towards your parents?

I was spanked as a kid and I certainly don't fear or resent my parents.


Hitting a child with any type of weapon is abuse. Dwight used the buckle of a belt, that's abuse. Peterson, used a switch that's abuse. Guess what, if you hit me, your wife or your friend with an open hand anywhere on our bodies, that's assault. Why is it only not assault when you do it to a child in your care? How absurd is it that the only person you can hit is your child? It's crazy.

This is another fallacy of the anti-spanking crowd. That a child is exactly the same as an adult. The reason you can punish your child is because the child is still developing crucial skills and ideas about right and wrong. Simply put, a child doesn't know right and wrong yet.

You can use the exact same question you posed about hitting a child only substitute some other form of punishment:

"If your friend or wife is caught lying to you why can't you put them in timeout? How come you can only put kids in timeout?!"

Now tell me, how ridiculous would it be if you told your friend they were in timeout or took away their video games because they lied to you? The reason that scenario doesn't work is because they are an adult who is free to make their own choices and a child is not.

mike_noodles
11-18-2014, 12:37 PM
show me those studies please. Myself, and all of my siblings were spanked, and got the belt. We are all college grads, with careers, no social issues, no criminal past, etc, etc. I think at around a certain age (pretty young), you drop that, it doesn't have an impact anymore, but to say its proven that spanking your kids has a negative effect on them later is downright ********.

Spankings aren't for every kid. My parents didn't spank me after age 4, I just laughed at them when they did it. But it worked on my brother, and one of my sisters.

It would be foolish for me to post them, a quick search can lead you to many real studies on it.

mike_noodles
11-18-2014, 12:41 PM
This is one of the biggest fallacies of any anti-spanking argument. The idea that you can ONLY either spank your kids or sit down and tell them why what they did was wrong.

Newsflash: you can do both. You can spank your child and then calmly and rationally talk to them about what they did wrong, why they were being punished and how to handle the situation better in the future.



Were you ever spanked as a child?

If not, how do you know these things?

If so, do you feel fear and resentment towards your parents?

I was spanked as a kid and I certainly don't fear or resent my parents.



This is another fallacy of the anti-spanking crowd. That a child is exactly the same as an adult. The reason you can punish your child is because the child is still developing crucial skills and ideas about right and wrong. Simply put, a child doesn't know right and wrong yet.

You can use the exact same question you posed about hitting a child only substitute some other form of punishment:

"If your friend or wife is caught lying to you why can't you put them in timeout? How come you can only put kids in timeout?!"

Now tell me, how ridiculous would it be if you told your friend they were in timeout or took away their video games because they lied to you? The reason that scenario doesn't work is because they are an adult who is free to make their own choices and a child is not.

I honestly expected more of you on this Valade. Your arguments are laughable. These are not fallacies of the anti spanking crowd, but rather the realization that we should treat our children with the same respect that you would give to ANY OTHER LIVING THING. Do children deserve to be disciplined? Absolutely, but if you can only do it by physical means, then you aren't a very good parent.

valade16
11-18-2014, 01:08 PM
I honestly expected more of you on this Valade. Your arguments are laughable. These are not fallacies of the anti spanking crowd, but rather the realization that we should treat our children with the same respect that you would give to ANY OTHER LIVING THING. Do children deserve to be disciplined? Absolutely, but if you can only do it by physical means, then you aren't a very good parent.

You essentially repeat the same fallacy I just pointed to. The idea that someone who spanks their kid is only capable of disciplining their kids by physical means is a fallacy.

To clarify: are you saying that people who spank their kids exclusively use corporal punishment on their children? That any and every time their child gets in trouble they spank them, no matter the offense?

See how ridiculous that is. There is probably a far smaller % of people who's default punishment is spanking than there are parents who have spanked their kids. And that is the nuance of it. I was spanked maybe 3 times my entire life. I promise you I did not get in trouble only 3 times.

So essentially, I am saying it is entirely possible to utilize spanking as a form of punishment in conjunction with other effective measures.

Again, you are using an absolute in your characterization of people who spank their kids, that they do it exclusively. That is not true. In the same way that you can cross the line spanking your child so too can you cross the line with literally any other form of punishment.

Timeout? There have been cases of parents leaving kids in their rooms or in a form of solitary confiment for days on end. That is certainly abuse.

Shaming or Guilting? There have been cases where parents shamed their kids so much in response to them getting in trouble the kid attempted suicide.

Bottom line: in any form of punishment, you can go overboard. Do not pretend otherwise.

Kevj77
11-18-2014, 02:27 PM
I read an article recently about if it is OK to give your kids time outs. Belts and switches shouldn't be used, but sometimes kids need to be disciplined even spanked. How are parents supposed to do that if everything is physical or mental abuse.

Heatcheck
11-18-2014, 04:18 PM
Kids need to be shown authority, the speech method doesn't work for everyone.
slapping, spanking, hitting with a switch or belt is fine. but you have to show restraint.
the man beat his child with a switch like a dog, he didn't spank or discipline.
The boy has lines coming down his thighs like a tiger, he even suffered "scrotal injuries".

You can paint it however you want. you can say you were just showing them whos boss, and that doddy doesn't play, but bottom line is you went over board 6'3" 225lb pro athlete.

Heatcheck
11-18-2014, 04:23 PM
I honestly expected more of you on this Valade. Your arguments are laughable. These are not fallacies of the anti spanking crowd, but rather the realization that we should treat our children with the same respect that you would give to ANY OTHER LIVING THING. Do children deserve to be disciplined? Absolutely, but if you can only do it by physical means, then you aren't a very good parent.

Kids need to be disciplined, very few, depending on age, are mature enough to understand through a "talking to".
They need a reason to respect your authority.

I for one always got the long speech treatment, but when I got too bold, I got slapped one good time and I learned my limits. what some people do is plain abuse I wouldn't do to an animal, and don't understand the concept of too much, its as if they are taking it personally, and that's wrong.

But you cant simply treat a child like an adult until they are taught how to behave like one.

LakeShowRaider
11-18-2014, 04:44 PM
Just read through p. 1 and I have to say I'm really impressed with the progressive attitude towards abuse on a male dominated sports forum. Disciplining your kid is part of life. Beating them isn't.

mike_noodles
11-18-2014, 05:01 PM
You essentially repeat the same fallacy I just pointed to. The idea that someone who spanks their kid is only capable of disciplining their kids by physical means is a fallacy.

To clarify: are you saying that people who spank their kids exclusively use corporal punishment on their children? That any and every time their child gets in trouble they spank them, no matter the offense?

See how ridiculous that is. There is probably a far smaller % of people who's default punishment is spanking than there are parents who have spanked their kids. And that is the nuance of it. I was spanked maybe 3 times my entire life. I promise you I did not get in trouble only 3 times.

So essentially, I am saying it is entirely possible to utilize spanking as a form of punishment in conjunction with other effective measures.

Again, you are using an absolute in your characterization of people who spank their kids, that they do it exclusively. That is not true. In the same way that you can cross the line spanking your child so too can you cross the line with literally any other form of punishment.

Timeout? There have been cases of parents leaving kids in their rooms or in a form of solitary confiment for days on end. That is certainly abuse.

Shaming or Guilting? There have been cases where parents shamed their kids so much in response to them getting in trouble the kid attempted suicide.

Bottom line: in any form of punishment, you can go overboard. Do not pretend otherwise.

I did not say that, nor do I believe that, so what are you even arguing about?

Edit: I see how my other post can come across. Let me be clear on my position then.

I do not believe in spanking at all.
I don't think that parents should be in trouble (ie have their children removed or have charges pressed) for spanking occasionally, but I don't think it's right and will speak against it.
I do think that any time you use any kind of weapon, it is child abuse no matter the circumstance.

Jamiecballer
11-18-2014, 05:09 PM
it's abuse for parents in desperate search for answers. but it's still abuse.

valade16
11-18-2014, 05:14 PM
I did not say that, nor do I believe that, so what are you even arguing about?

Edit: I see how my other post can come across. Let me be clear on my position then.

I do not believe in spanking at all.
I don't think that parents should be in trouble (ie have their children removed or have charges pressed) for spanking occasionally, but I don't think it's right and will speak against it.
I do think that any time you use any kind of weapon, it is child abuse no matter the circumstance.

Those are very reasonable points. I agree with #3. I don't think it's a crazy notion to not believe in spanking just a different of opinion.

Also, I have a 12 year old and I have never personally spanked him. My wife has twice but in every instance (even those 2) I said I don't believe he should be spanked. It is a very serious punishment and should be reserved for very serious offenses. I also think the older a child gets the less you should consider spanking because they are more capable of understanding right and wrong.

Heatcheck
11-18-2014, 05:17 PM
Its funny though.....its exactly what I feel like doing to AD every time he fumbles in an important game.....isnt it ironic don't you think?

Goose17
11-18-2014, 05:24 PM
So... how about that NBA?

Tony_Starks
11-18-2014, 06:01 PM
FYI for every study that says spanking is wrong you can find another that says when done calmly and in moderation along with a explanation it is useful. Any discipline done in anger can be abusive. Yelling at your kids, verbal abuse. Shaming your kids, psychological abuse...etc

All kids are different. Some may be hard headed and need to be spanked while others just looking at them a certain way and they'll straighten up.

jimm120
11-18-2014, 07:25 PM
And I think this is the middle ground:

If it is something done in moderation, it is a good tool.

My main argument is that the Media (and obviously some people) consider everything abuse.

As I said, I've been hit maybe 9-10 times my whole life, either a quick slap from my mom, a sandal to the arm/leg by my mom, or a belt to the leg by my dad. But nothing excessive in which it caused bleeding. Nothing excessive that caused bruises. Nothing excessive that was repeated over and over.

It is literally around 9-10 times in 30 years. That means once every 3 years.

That, to me, just isn't abuse at all.

Just as someone said that yelling or a time out might be considered mental abuse also...everything in moderation.

What we have to learn is the LIMITS. MODERATION. Not to take away all tools. There are people that DO hit their kid too often. There are people that DO hit their children too harshly.

So yeah....I don't think these players are getting fair treatment.

Adrian Peterson was SLIGHTLY overboard because of how roughly he hit his kid...and even then I wouldn't call that Child Abuse.

Sorry, but Child Abuse to me is something consistent and takes place often. Rough, consistent punishment. If you can prove that for Peterson, then ok. If not, then 1 time does not make your child be abused.

colinskik
11-18-2014, 07:55 PM
How is hitting someone with a belt not harsh at all? That's a weird/violent thing to do to an adult who deserves it, let alone a child who probably didn't even do something that bad.

So when does Dwight Howard get crucified for this? I'm surprised it hasn't already happened.

chitownbulls
11-18-2014, 08:18 PM
So for those saying that hitting and spanking makes you a bad parent, are you calling our parents bad parents(those of us who have been hit). As someone who's main punishment was being slapped in the face, I, in no way thought it was child abuse. In fact, I love my parents very much, and credit them to my position in life, which I consider successful. Hitting/spanking doesn't make you a bad parent, as long as your child learns from his/her mistakes.

Jamiecballer
11-18-2014, 08:37 PM
I don't hold a grudge against parents who believe they are doing the right thing. I am however very surprised how many people in this forum see it as okay nowadays.

Serious question for the people who don't see it as bad: at what age is it OK to start hitting your kids? 2? 3? What is your feeling on this?

benzni
11-18-2014, 08:55 PM
Hitting a kid with a belt is wrong. Spanking a kid is not.

jimm120
11-18-2014, 09:05 PM
I don't hold a grudge against parents who believe they are doing the right thing. I am however very surprised how many people in this forum see it as okay nowadays.

Serious question for the people who don't see it as bad: at what age is it OK to start hitting your kids? 2? 3? What is your feeling on this?


Like I've said. I think that hitting a child is ok (quite sparingly and not too rough), but that's beside the point of what I'm saying.

My main thing with this whole issue is that they are calling it CHILD ABUSE. How can 1 hit be called child abuse. It just boggles my mind. To say, "hey, its wrong to hit your child" is one thing. To say that it is child abuse because you hit them is another. Again, I'd understand if it was many times or frequently. But not 1 time.

JasonJohnHorn
11-18-2014, 09:05 PM
This is one of the biggest fallacies of any anti-spanking argument. The idea that you can ONLY either spank your kids or sit down and tell them why what they did was wrong.

Newsflash: you can do both. You can spank your child and then calmly and rationally talk to them about what they did wrong, why they were being punished and how to handle the situation better in the future.


Newsflash! That wasn't my argument. My argument was that when you use physical violence as a response, you teach your kids that physical violence is an appropriate response.

Doing one undermines the other. You take away privileges. You don't beat them.

JasonJohnHorn
11-18-2014, 09:09 PM
show me those studies please. Myself, and all of my siblings were spanked, and got the belt. We are all college grads, with careers, no social issues, no criminal past, etc, etc. I think at around a certain age (pretty young), you drop that, it doesn't have an impact anymore, but to say its proven that spanking your kids has a negative effect on them later is downright ********.

Spankings aren't for every kid. My parents didn't spank me after age 4, I just laughed at them when they did it. But it worked on my brother, and one of my sisters.

Let's me preface this by saying that you seem like a swell guy Hawkeye... I always enjoy your posts. So take this disagreement with a grain of salt.


Just because you turned out ok doesn't mean that it's good as a practice.

You can say: I've shared needles all my life and never got AIDS, and you can get four people who say that. Doesn't mean that all users should start sharing needles.

Here's a list to some journal articles on spanking. Many of which use a sample size larger than four.

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&q=studies+on+spanking&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=

Goose17
11-19-2014, 06:59 AM
Newsflash! That wasn't my argument. My argument was that when you use physical violence as a response, you teach your kids that physical violence is an appropriate response.

Doing one undermines the other. You take away privileges. You don't beat them.

This^

100%

eso
11-19-2014, 07:07 AM
I have 2 great kids and I've never had to spank them.. If parents are involved in their kids lives it's not needed.. I also am in my 30's and grew up getting them.. When I had my own I chose not to do it..

I applaud this quote, I'm relatively new to parenting (a 3 year old and a 7 month old) and we would never think of spanking our rug rats, there are much better ways you can teach a child right from wrong.
I think now days to many parents just don't spend the time with there kids that they should.

R. Johnson#3
11-19-2014, 07:38 AM
Nothing wrong with a spank on the bum. Using a belt (especially the buckle) is going too far.

Heatcheck
11-19-2014, 11:12 AM
I applaud this quote, I'm relatively new to parenting (a 3 year old and a 7 month old) and we would never think of spanking our rug rats, there are much better ways you can teach a child right from wrong.
I think now days to many parents just don't spend the time with there kids that they should.

I think your both blessed with naturally obedient kids. I was the same way. even as a 3 and 4 year old, my mom would explain to me that I needed to do such and such, and why, and id do it. but most children Ive run into don't just do as their told, and many need to know they'll get smacked if they don't listen, if not, they have no incentive to do as their told. and there isn't anything you can say or take from them to make them follow orders.

Heatcheck
11-19-2014, 11:16 AM
Newsflash! That wasn't my argument. My argument was that when you use physical violence as a response, you teach your kids that physical violence is an appropriate response.

Doing one undermines the other. You take away privileges. You don't beat them.

no you don't, not the way he described it. if you simply smack the kid around when your upset with him or go around losing your cool and throwing **** or punching walls like some people do under stress, then yeah, kids pick up on that stuff. some kids could give a **** about privileges or time outs

you don't go abusing your child or handling everything with a smack or scream, but to act like its some caveman way of going about things is absurd. I for one received both, knew my parents loved me, understood afterwards why i got a smack because they explained to me why, and grew up pretty stable and in control of my emotions. me and many others I know.

valade16
11-19-2014, 11:36 AM
Newsflash! That wasn't my argument. My argument was that when you use physical violence as a response, you teach your kids that physical violence is an appropriate response.

Doing one undermines the other. You take away privileges. You don't beat them.

That is simply not true. Perhaps if you simply spank your kid and don't talk to them about the incident afterward, but again, most people don't do that.

You can teach people that physical violence is not an appropriate response to most situations in the same way you can teach kids that smoking is not OK if you yourself smoke.

That's a pretty simplistic way to look at how the human brain works. Not that my personal experience is indicative of everyone, but my mom spanked me a couple times in my youth, my mom and dad both smoked, my dad got addicted to drugs and went to prison and I do not spank my kids, do not smoke, and have certainly never been to prison. According to you that should not be possible.

valade16
11-19-2014, 11:38 AM
no you don't, not the way he described it. if you simply smack the kid around when your upset with him or go around losing your cool and throwing **** or punching walls like some people do under stress, then yeah, kids pick up on that stuff. some kids could give a **** about privileges or time outs

you don't go abusing your child or handling everything with a smack or scream, but to act like its some caveman way of going about things is absurd. I for one received both, knew my parents loved me, understood afterwards why i got a smack because they explained to me why, and grew up pretty stable and in control of my emotions. me and many others I know.

This. I promise everyone who has never been spanked. The vast majority of kids who got spanked (in a reasonable and responsible manner as children) weren't thinking "I got hit so now I know violence is an acceptable response to problems" when they got spanked, they were thinking "I messed up real bad this time".

Corey
11-19-2014, 11:51 AM
Newsflash! That wasn't my argument. My argument was that when you use physical violence as a response, you teach your kids that physical violence is an appropriate response.

Doing one undermines the other. You take away privileges. You don't beat them.

Agreed completely.

jerellh528
11-19-2014, 11:55 AM
The people advocating against reasonable spankings between the ages of 2-6 probably aren't parents. You can't just sit a toddler down and reason with it as you would an older kid and taking away thier privledges like a sippy cup or a toy would just make them more hostile. You have to show it that what he or she is doing is wrong and a spanking on thier butt using your hand is a valuable tool.

pacofunk64
11-19-2014, 11:57 AM
Being a parent can be very difficult...it takes great team work with you and your significant other. There are times where it is unbelievably over whelming. Sometimes you do take your frustrations out on them and it's not fair. I've done before & I'll do it again. If I know I'm in the wrong I always apologize to my kids for raising my voice or being to harsh. I rarely give the spanking but I think most can agree that the spanking isnt really the issue it's using excessive force. Just because you use bad judgement and use excessive force does not make you a terrible human being or a terrible parent. More and proper education needs to made available plain and simple. Most of use the same parenting techniques passed to us from our parents. Whether they are good or bad. Who is to know the difference? These athletes are getting ripped to shreds because mainly the media over glamorizing it, which is their job for everything.

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 12:22 PM
That is simply not true. Perhaps if you simply spank your kid and don't talk to them about the incident afterward, but again, most people don't do that.

You can teach people that physical violence is not an appropriate response to most situations in the same way you can teach kids that smoking is not OK if you yourself smoke.

That's a pretty simplistic way to look at how the human brain works. Not that my personal experience is indicative of everyone, but my mom spanked me a couple times in my youth, my mom and dad both smoked, my dad got addicted to drugs and went to prison and I do not spank my kids, do not smoke, and have certainly never been to prison. According to you that should not be possible.

no, because he never said that free will didn't exist. of course you can choose to do differently. that doesn't make the physical abuse you received right.

my opinion - you don't hit people you love. not your parents, your kids, your friends. no one.

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 12:26 PM
The people advocating against reasonable spankings between the ages of 2-6 probably aren't parents. You can't just sit a toddler down and reason with it as you would an older kid and taking away thier privledges like a sippy cup or a toy would just make them more hostile. You have to show it that what he or she is doing is wrong and a spanking on thier butt using your hand is a valuable tool.

oh believe me, i have a 2 year old and a 5 month old. i have wanted to smack him before, i've definitely felt that frustration. but why would i hit someone i love? someone who is completely defenseless? my children should have one place where they know they are always safe, and that's our house.

astrosmaniac
11-19-2014, 12:31 PM
How is hitting someone with a belt not harsh at all? That's a weird/violent thing to do to an adult who deserves it, let alone a child who probably didn't even do something that bad.

So when does Dwight Howard get crucified for this? I'm surprised it hasn't already happened.
Dwight recently filed for full custody due to the mother alleged giving the child psychotropic drugs to keep him sedated. it does seem suspicious that these claims are being brought up by her right after that, especially since CPS already investigated and closed the case.

Randy West
11-19-2014, 12:53 PM
It's been my experience that spanking teaches the wrong thing. We did it with our older girls and they in turn did it to their younger siblings when they got upset with them.

We spanked them when they were bad, they started spanking when they thought someone else was being bad.

Over the last few years we started taking things away. The favorite things. You put hands on someone else you loose the i pad or something similar.

It's been working out pretty good I must say

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 12:56 PM
It's been my experience that spanking teaches the wrong thing. We did it with our older girls and they in turn did it to their younger siblings when they got upset with them.

We spanked them when they were bad, they started spanking when they thought someone else was being bad.

Over the last few years we started taking things away. The favorite things. You put hands on someone else you loose the i pad or something similar.

It's been working out pretty good I must say

good for you, i think that's great to hear.

pacofunk64
11-19-2014, 01:06 PM
It's been my experience that spanking teaches the wrong thing. We did it with our older girls and they in turn did it to their younger siblings when they got upset with them.

We spanked them when they were bad, they started spanking when they thought someone else was being bad.

Over the last few years we started taking things away. The favorite things. You put hands on someone else you loose the i pad or something similar.

It's been working out pretty good I must say

Ya been doing this as well & I agree.

rockets-fan
11-19-2014, 01:43 PM
Pshhhh this is ridiculous and the reason that kids act so stupid these days. Have you seen the teens around nowadays? Makes me cringe when I see it.

My mother and father whipped me with their belts, TV cables, hands, saddles, and I appreciate because I didn't turn out to be a thug or bum like my childhood friends who weren't spanked.

Abuse is one thing, but hitting on the butt and a slap on the cheek is not bad at all, even tho I'm sure I'm in The monitory here.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 02:11 PM
oh believe me, i have a 2 year old and a 5 month old. i have wanted to smack him before, i've definitely felt that frustration. but why would i hit someone i love? someone who is completely defenseless? my children should have one place where they know they are always safe, and that's our house.

:clap:

nastynice
11-19-2014, 02:20 PM
Newsflash! That wasn't my argument. My argument was that when you use physical violence as a response, you teach your kids that physical violence is an appropriate response.

Doing one undermines the other. You take away privileges. You don't beat them.

ok, i'm not a parent, but serious question. Following along much of the reasoning you and other people are giving for why hitting kids is wrong, why isn't it wrong to take away privelages? Does this not teach a child that controlling others, forcing others into particular actions, or taking things away from others, is an appropriate response

I don't think anyone is niether advocating for physically harming the child, it has more to do with the mental/psychological effect. And people seem to be arguing against this, that the mental effect is so bad, but then doesn't all forms of punishment have some type of mental effect?

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 02:30 PM
ok, i'm not a parent, but serious question. Following along much of the reasoning you and other people are giving for why hitting kids is wrong, why isn't it wrong to take away privelages? Does this not teach a child that controlling others, forcing others into particular actions, or taking things away from others, is an appropriate response

I don't think anyone is niether advocating for physically harming the child, it has more to do with the mental/psychological effect. And people seem to be arguing against this, that the mental effect is so bad, but then doesn't all forms of punishment have some type of mental effect?

that's a very intelligent question. it is very tough and no matter what route you take you will feel guilty half the time anyways. for me it's got nothing to do with this lesson or that lesson. i don't hit those i love and i would feel like a really terrible parent if i did. feeling safe and loved are the two most important things i can provide for my children IMO.

valade16
11-19-2014, 03:05 PM
no, because he never said that free will didn't exist. of course you can choose to do differently. that doesn't make the physical abuse you received right.

my opinion - you don't hit people you love. not your parents, your kids, your friends. no one.

He kind of did. He is assuming

A. That all people who spank their kids do so and then don't provide any context for why they were getting spanked. Obviously this is no more true than people not telling their kids why they are in timeout. Here's the thing, you have to tell your kid why they are going in timeout for them to gain any valuable lesson from it, so why wouldn't you assume the same is true of people who spank their kids?

B. By spanking a child they learn simply by that act occuring that it is OK to hit others. Again, this is no more true than a parent telling a kid smoking is bad despite smoking themselves. If people have free will and are able to determine whether smoking is bad despite seeing their parents do it they are most certainly capable of the free will necessary to know not to hit others.

Last bolded: you are once again using a fallacy. You don't hit those you love? You don't yell at them either. I bet you've done that. You don't lie to them. I bet you've done that. You don't hurt their feelings. I bet you've done that. Furthermore, in every instance you've done so intentionally (I'm not singling you out, everyone has). So tell me again about the things you don't do to those you love. At best you are a hypocrit.

In short, It's about context. If you don't think you could spank your kid when they do something egregious and then talk to them to get them to understand A. What they did was wrong B. Why they are being spanked C. How to handle the situation better in the future and D. That they shouldn't hit others it is not the method, it is you

valade16
11-19-2014, 03:06 PM
that's a very intelligent question. it is very tough and no matter what route you take you will feel guilty half the time anyways. for me it's got nothing to do with this lesson or that lesson. i don't hit those i love and i would feel like a really terrible parent if i did. feeling safe and loved are the two most important things i can provide for my children IMO.

The implication here being either

Kids who get spanked don't feel loved or safe?

Kids who don't get spanked automatically feel loved or safe?

Both instances are faulty assumptions.

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 03:26 PM
He kind of did. He is assuming

A. That all people who spank their kids do so and then don't provide any context for why they were getting spanked. Obviously this is no more true than people not telling their kids why they are in timeout. Here's the thing, you have to tell your kid why they are going in timeout for them to gain any valuable lesson from it, so why wouldn't you assume the same is true of people who spank their kids?

B. By spanking a child they learn simply by that act occuring that it is OK to hit others. Again, this is no more true than a parent telling a kid smoking is bad despite smoking themselves. If people have free will and are able to determine whether smoking is bad despite seeing their parents do it they are most certainly capable of the free will necessary to know not to hit others.
i don't have an issue with those those statements. i agree with your theory. because of free will, not everyone who has an alcohol father will grow up to be one. but we have hard data to suggest that they are more likely than someone with a non-alcoholic father. same principle applies here.


Last bolded: you are once again using a fallacy. You don't hit those you love? You don't yell at them either. I bet you've done that. You don't lie to them. I bet you've done that. You don't hurt their feelings. I bet you've done that. Furthermore, in every instance you've done so intentionally (I'm not singling you out, everyone has). So tell me again about the things you don't do to those you love. At best you are a hypocrit.

In short, It's about context. If you don't think you could spank your kid when they do something egregious and then talk to them to get them to understand A. What they did was wrong B. Why they are being spanked C. How to handle the situation better in the future and D. That they shouldn't hit others it is not the method, it is you

this is nothing more than rationalization. you are trying to give a socially acceptable explanation for an otherwise socially unacceptable act. we don't condone assault in this part of the world. i can't walk down the street and punch someone in the face as long as i stop and give him a breakdown afterwards about

A)Why i did it.
B)How he can avoid it happening again in the future.

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 03:33 PM
The implication here being either

Kids who get spanked don't feel loved or safe?

Kids who don't get spanked automatically feel loved or safe?

Both instances are faulty assumptions.

it's only my personal opinion and you are more than welcome to disagree. i know some people do use spanking and they are perfectly decent parents. but it's my opinion as i stated previous, that making my children feel safe and loved is the most important job i believe i have.

little minds are not capable of understanding why we tell them it's not ok to hit (ever) and then have no problem hitting them. it undercuts self esteem IMO. it's straight up assault rationalized as parenting. so i won't do it. if others find it's the only method that is effective for them, feel free. but let's not pretend like you aren't assaulting them, you are. it's shock therapy essentially, and it's great for short term changes in behaviour.

t_money25
11-19-2014, 04:07 PM
This thread sucks! People discussing realtive cultural morality on Internet sports forums sucks! No one gives a **** about your own upbringing or beliefs! I was spanked, hit with household objects, nothing I would consider ABUSE. Yes, even as a kid I knew the difference between getting a spanking I DESERVED and CHILD ABUSE. Anyone give a ****? Didn't think so! Because nobody gives a **** about these issues until it affects a rich and famous athlete and the media sponsors it. Go crawl back into your politically correct holes, stop telling people how to live their lives or raise their kids, because you actually know ZERO facts about these cases and it's none of your goddamn business anyway.

:clap:

Best post I've read on PSD in a long time. I second every point you've made. It's funny yet sad that things like child abuse and men hitting women is only an issue when it involves someone that is rich and famous as if these are not problems in everyday society....SMH

Goose17
11-19-2014, 04:27 PM
i can't walk down the street and punch someone in the face as long as i stop and give him a breakdown afterwards about

A)Why i did it.
B)How he can avoid it happening again in the future.

LMFAO!! This genuinely had me laughing out loud.

pacofunk64
11-19-2014, 04:42 PM
you are trying to give a socially acceptable explanation for an otherwise socially unacceptable act. we don't condone assault in this part of the world. i can't walk down the street and punch someone in the face as long as i stop and give him a breakdown afterwards about

A)Why i did it.
B)How he can avoid it happening again in the future.

Lol...you might be on to something here. How many times have you said to yourself "oh I wish I could just smack the **** out of that stupid idiot". Don't lie, lol, it happens to all of us at some point.

One of my points is growing up it seems like everyone gets bullied by someone older at some point. You can tell the teacher all you want and nothing happens. Take matters into your own hands and punch them right in the face and that ends the bullying. Sometimes adults need an *** whooping to get the message across :D

valade16
11-19-2014, 04:43 PM
i don't have an issue with those those statements. i agree with your theory. because of free will, not everyone who has an alcohol father will grow up to be one. but we have hard data to suggest that they are more likely than someone with a non-alcoholic father. same principle applies here.

this is nothing more than rationalization. you are trying to give a socially acceptable explanation for an otherwise socially unacceptable act. we don't condone assault in this part of the world. i can't walk down the street and punch someone in the face as long as i stop and give him a breakdown afterwards about

A)Why i did it.
B)How he can avoid it happening again in the future.

1st Bolded: I get what you're saying but I do want to point out that in the case of alcoholism it's because alcoholism is a disease that is heavily based on genetics, so the reason a kid of an alcoholic is more likely to be alcoholic themselves is genetic and not a learned trait.

2nd Bolded: Nice attempt at humor but it's point is once again a fallacy. In the same way you can't punch someone in the face and then give them a breakdown of why you did it afterwards you also can't take something away from someone else and give them a breakdown of why you did it afterwards either.

That's called theft and it is most certainly illegal.

There is simply no way you can justify spanking a kid as being a morally wrong act by comparing it to something you would do to an adult, because timeouts, confiscating their stuff, are equally as illegal.

valade16
11-19-2014, 04:45 PM
Lol...you might be on to something here. How many times have you said to yourself "oh I wish I could just smack the **** out of that stupid idiot". Don't lie, lol, it happens to all of us at some point.

You know what you should do instead, you should just go to their house and take their ipad or video games. Then explain to the officer that it wasn't stealing, it was trying to teach them a lesson in a nonviolent manner.

This scenario works in exactly the same way if you interchange assault with literally any other punishment people have laid out in this thread.

pacofunk64
11-19-2014, 04:47 PM
You know what you should do instead, you should just go to their house and take their ipad or video games. Then explain to the officer that it wasn't stealing, it was trying to teach them a lesson in a nonviolent manner.

This scenario works in exactly the same way if you interchange assault with literally any other punishment people have laid out in this thread.

rotfl...oh man I am cracking up here

jakedajewler
11-19-2014, 05:07 PM
Ignorant people beat their kids as punishment. corporal punishment doesn't work only a moron would think it does.

albertajaysfan
11-19-2014, 05:36 PM
My parents never hit me once in my life. But they knew how to discipline both my sister and myself.

Hitting is taking the easy way out in my opinion. Combine discipline with educating.

valade16
11-19-2014, 05:48 PM
Ignorant people beat their kids as punishment. corporal punishment doesn't work only a moron would think it does.

Clearly not being spanked as a kid taught you respect and manners...

Whatever punishment your parents used on you, it doesn't appear to have worked.

valade16
11-19-2014, 05:50 PM
My parents never hit me once in my life. But they knew how to discipline both my sister and myself.

Hitting is taking the easy way out in my opinion. Combine discipline with educating.

Explain to me why it is impossible to both spank your child and educate them?

Here's a scenario to help you understand, instead of saying I ground my kids and educate them substitute the word spank and you'll find the sentence works literally exactly the same.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 05:56 PM
You know what you should do instead, you should just go to their house and take their ipad or video games. Then explain to the officer that it wasn't stealing, it was trying to teach them a lesson in a nonviolent manner.

This scenario works in exactly the same way if you interchange assault with literally any other punishment people have laid out in this thread.

Interesting you should bring up the police...

Are the police allowed to beat you to teach you when you've done wrong/committed certain crimes? No.

Are the police allowed to confiscate, impound and remove items for to punish people for doing wrong/committing certain crimes? Yes.


Just saying...

JordansBulls
11-19-2014, 05:56 PM
As long as it is healable it is ok. If you get whacked in the face with a belt buckle that is child abuse.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 05:56 PM
Explain to me why it is impossible to both spank your child and educate them?

Here's a scenario to help you understand, instead of saying I ground my kids and educate them substitute the word spank and you'll find the sentence works literally exactly the same.

Unless you're shouting out the multiplication tables as you hit them I don't think it's possible.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 05:57 PM
Hitting is taking the easy way out in my opinion.

I agree with this^

It's for people who are unable to control their emotions or don't know how to parent any other way.

Interestingly there was a study that said kids who were spanked, when they grew up, tended not to spank their own kids.

valade16
11-19-2014, 06:08 PM
Interesting you should bring up the police...

Are the police allowed to beat you to teach you when you've done wrong/committed certain crimes? No.

Are the police allowed to confiscate, impound and remove items for to punish people for doing wrong/committing certain crimes? Yes.

Just saying...

Poor example because they absolutely are. If you committing certain crimes, particularly with deadly weapons, the police absolutely can use force to subdue you. So again, your comparison fails. Unless you're saying that police should never be able to use force to stop a crime. But good luck with that one...

Just saying...


I agree with this^

It's for people who are unable to control their emotions or don't know how to parent any other way.

Interestingly there was a study that said kids who were spanked, when they grew up, tended not to spank their own kids.

This is a contradiction of what everyone else was saying. They said that spanking your kids teaches them that spanking and violence are how they should solve their problems. Following their logic, one would expect them to grow up also spanking their own kids.

You are saying that is not true. Can you explain the contradiction?

mike_noodles
11-19-2014, 06:10 PM
^^^ For me personally, I'm adamant about breaking the cycle.

valade16
11-19-2014, 06:11 PM
Unless you're shouting out the multiplication tables as you hit them I don't think it's possible.

Then you lack either reading comprehension skills or imagination. Notice both I and the OP omitted the words "at the same time".

To again compare to a humane form of punishment, you probably aren't talking to your kid while you give them a timeout, it kind of defeats the purpose of the timeout...

nastynice
11-19-2014, 06:16 PM
Interesting you should bring up the police...

Are the police allowed to beat you to teach you when you've done wrong/committed certain crimes? No.

Are the police allowed to confiscate, impound and remove items for to punish people for doing wrong/committing certain crimes? Yes.


Just saying...

so what I'm getting out of this is lock your child in a cage whenever they do something wrong...? lol

Goose17
11-19-2014, 06:16 PM
Poor example because they absolutely are. If you committing certain crimes, particularly with deadly weapons, the police absolutely can use force to subdue you. So again, your comparison fails. Unless you're saying that police should never be able to use force to stop a crime. But good luck with that one...


Okay, if your kid comes at you with a deadly weapon and attempts to murder you, feel free to smack the **** outta them. I can condone that.

But we're talking about general discipline. Police wouldn't discipline a thief by beating them, they would take things away from them (money they've earned through thieving, the items they stoles etc) so if a kid steals a cookie you can smack the crap out of them, that's okay? Even if police wouldn't do that to a criminal who actually knows right from wrong?

I don't see your logic.




This is a contradiction of what everyone else was saying. They said that spanking your kids teaches them that spanking and violence are how they should solve their problems. Following their logic, one would expect them to grow up also spanking their own kids.

You are saying that is not true. Can you explain the contradiction?

I think they meant that they would resort to violence when people piss them off or whatever, more vigilante style etc.

But the study basically said the majority who were spanked couldn't bring themselves to do it to their own kids because they remember how much it effected them at the time.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 06:17 PM
so what I'm getting out of this is lock your child in a cage whenever they do something wrong...? lol

Only if they've been found guilty by a jury of their peers.

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 06:19 PM
My parents never hit me once in my life. But they knew how to discipline both my sister and myself.

Hitting is taking the easy way out in my opinion. Combine discipline with educating.
That's what I am saying. Its parenting for people who don't know where else to turn. Or at least I'd like to think it is.

nastynice
11-19-2014, 06:21 PM
This scenario works in exactly the same way if you interchange assault with literally any other punishment people have laid out in this thread.

exactly. Truth is, only way someone can justify FOR punishment, while simultaenously AGAINST spanking, is to either be a hypocrite, or to draw an arbitrary line and demand everyone agree with them that their arbitrary line is the right line to draw, any other one is wrong.

I'm not saying it makes them right or wrong, but I do find it odd that someone with such shaky ground to stand on to begin with can be so confident or bold in their opinion as to be able to comfortably judge other people's parenting technique as either right or wrong.

But I guess we always want to be "right", so we can point at everyone else who is "wrong". Makes us feel good inside. Well, at least it makes ME feel good inside. Its why I love to point out the flaws of others. Build myself up by breaking them down, tha'ts my motto. Come join me!!

nastynice
11-19-2014, 06:22 PM
Only if they've been found guilty by a jury of their peers.

hell yea!! mama and daddy says, 25 to life homie!!! BUSTED!!

nastynice
11-19-2014, 06:23 PM
That's what I am saying. Its parenting for people who don't know where else to turn. Or at least I'd like to think it is.

See, because of that bolded part, I can respect this post. We all need to understand, there's no "right" or "wrong" answer. We all have our own opinion, based off our own reasoning. To think that disciplining a child, as far as this topic is concerned, can be broken down into right and wrong, to me that's very narrow minded. Its way too complex an issue for that kinda bs.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 06:25 PM
Truth is, only way someone can justify FOR punishment, while simultaenously AGAINST spanking, is to either be a hypocrite, or to draw an arbitrary line and demand everyone agree with them that their arbitrary line is the right line to draw, any other one is wrong.


Not really, there's a difference between a grown human being physically assaulting a young child and a grown human being giving the child a telling off and grounding them.

If you can't see that difference, that's probably the issue.

jerellh528
11-19-2014, 06:26 PM
Okay, so besides a swat on thier bum, How do you teach/ scold a two year old that what they've done is wrong? Someone please say something that's not as ridiculous as, reason with them or take away a two year old's privledges. I'm not talking about just saying, "no!", I'm talking when it goes beyond that.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 06:27 PM
If someone else smacked your kid for being bad, like a teacher or a police officer. I take it you would be fine with that?

Or should only blood relatives be allowed to smack the kids?

What's the difference between you doing it and an officer of the law?

valade16
11-19-2014, 06:27 PM
Okay, if your kid comes at you with a deadly weapon and attempts to murder you, feel free to smack the **** outta them. I can condone that.

But we're talking about general discipline. Police wouldn't discipline a thief by beating them, they would take things away from them (money they've earned through thieving, the items they stoles etc) so if a kid steals a cookie you can smack the crap out of them, that's okay? Even if police wouldn't do that to a criminal who actually knows right from wrong?

I don't see your logic.

I think they meant that they would resort to violence when people piss them off or whatever, more vigilante style etc.

But the study basically said the majority who were spanked couldn't bring themselves to do it to their own kids because they remember how much it effected them at the time.

Bolded: I think you are again giving the police too much credit. They are authorized to use force to subdue any number of incidents. If someone is acting drunk or even unruly they can use force to subdue them. If someone refuses police commands they can use force to ensure their compliance. There are literally dozens more examples but you get my point, the idea that police cannot use force is erroneous.

But that point aside, we have to use our words very carefully. By saying beat or beat the crap out of them you connotate the act with uncontrolled or excessive agression, which again, as I've said all along, should never be done. If you are going to spank your children the 2 most important rules to me are 1). Never do it out of anger and 2). Never use it as your default punishment. It should be reserved for especially serious matters.

Given those rules, it is very unlikely most sane and rational people who spank their children would ever start whoopin' wholesale *** because they stole a cookie.

But this seems to be the default argumentative tactic for anti-spanking people (and not singling you out or necessarily saying you are guilty of this), they assume spanking is done at the slightest provocation and in the harshest manner. In short, they sensationalize how it is done.

Imagine if I said to you that putting kids in timeout was immoral and abuse by saying "a kid steals a cookie and you lock them in their room for 4 days in silence and only give them bread and water for sustenance". Your initial reaction would be "That's obviously an extreme form of timeout that nobody really does, especially for something as small as stealing a cookie".

Well it's important to remember, that is exactly how most people who spank their kids feel when you constantly sensationalize it.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 06:28 PM
Okay, so besides a swat on thier bum, How do you teach/ scold a two year old that what they've done is wrong? Someone please say something that's not as ridiculous as, reason with them or take away a two year old's privledges. I'm not talking about just saying, "no!", I'm talking when it goes beyond that.

It's called a time out. Followed by an explanation of what they did that was wrong and why it is wrong.

You're acting like a two year old is unable to understand the english language or something? I mean unless you adopted them from africa or something, then you're pretty much ****ed. How the hell do you communicate with them?

jerellh528
11-19-2014, 06:30 PM
It's called a time out. Followed by an explanation of what they did that was wrong and why it is wrong.

You're acting like a two year old is unable to understand the english language or something? I mean unless you adopted them from africa or something, then you're pretty much ****ed. How the hell do you communicate with them?

A two year olds max attention span is 6 minutes. Good luck getting them into time out. Do you have kids?

nastynice
11-19-2014, 06:31 PM
Not really, there's a difference between a grown human being physically assaulting a young child and a grown human being giving the child a telling off and grounding them.

If you can't see that difference, that's probably the issue.

Actually, the issue is that while you seem to be able to acknowledge the idea of physical abuse, but you don't seem to acknowledge the idea of mental/emotional abuse.

Both tactics can be employed in a constructive manner, and both tactics can be employed in an abusive manner. Get what I'm saying?

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 06:31 PM
^^^ For me personally, I'm adamant about breaking the cycle.
Agreed. I think it sets a very poor example that is more likely to result in violent behavior as a child. Then the person becomes fully mature, has kids and vows never to put there kids through it. They become sensitive to it.

jerellh528
11-19-2014, 06:34 PM
Agreed. I think it sets a very poor example that is more likely to result in violent behavior as a child. Then the person becomes fully mature, has kids and vows never to put there kids through it. They become sensitive to it.

a study conducted by psychology professor Marjorie Gunnoe at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan. FoxNews.com reports on the story, writing , “According to the research, children spanked up to the age of 6 were likely as teenagers to perform better at school and were more likely to carry out volunteer work and to want to go to college than their peers who had never been physically disciplined.”
Doesn't sound that way to me

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 06:36 PM
Okay, so besides a swat on thier bum, How do you teach/ scold a two year old that what they've done is wrong? Someone please say something that's not as ridiculous as, reason with them or take away a two year old's privledges. I'm not talking about just saying, "no!", I'm talking when it goes beyond that.
That obviously depends on the offense and the child.

valade16
11-19-2014, 06:37 PM
It's also funny to me that many of the people who say that spanking your kid is wrong also talk about how kids these days have no respect and aren't as polite as when they were kids.

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 06:46 PM
a study conducted by psychology professor Marjorie Gunnoe at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan. FoxNews.com reports on the story, writing , “According to the research, children spanked up to the age of 6 were likely as teenagers to perform better at school and were more likely to carry out volunteer work and to want to go to college than their peers who had never been physically disciplined.”
Doesn't sound that way to me
Ya I'd love to see the scope of that study before I buy that

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 06:48 PM
It's also funny to me that many of the people who say that spanking your kid is wrong also talk about how kids these days have no respect and aren't as polite as when they were kids.
That's a pretty big generalization. And don't confuse fear with respect.

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 06:50 PM
It's also funny to me that many of the people who say that spanking your kid is wrong also talk about how kids these days have no respect and aren't as polite as when they were kids.
Don't you share that view also though or has your spanking experience caused you to view the rest of the world differently than the non spankers...

jerellh528
11-19-2014, 06:55 PM
I'm just going to have to agree to disagree. If you believe spanking your child reasonably on thier bum with your hand is assualt, and will cause violent behavior, well that's just a fiber difference and I cant argue with that. However you might also want to withhold your children from contact sports or martial arts, maybe even video games so he doesn't go on a shooting spree.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 07:03 PM
However you might also want to withhold your children from contact sports or martial arts, maybe even video games so he doesn't go on a shooting spree.

None of that makes sense.

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 07:05 PM
I'm just going to have to agree to disagree. If you believe spanking your child reasonably on thier bum with your hand is assualt, and will cause violent behavior, well that's just a fiber difference and I cant argue with that. However you might also want to withhold your children from contact sports or martial arts, maybe even video games so he doesn't go on a shooting spree.
Children are willing participants in those things, or should be. Why would you compare that to inflicting pain on them without their consent?

jimm120
11-19-2014, 07:46 PM
Actually, the issue is that while you seem to be able to acknowledge the idea of physical abuse, but you don't seem to acknowledge the idea of mental/emotional abuse.

Both tactics can be employed in a constructive manner, and both tactics can be employed in an abusive manner. Get what I'm saying?

+1

JasonJohnHorn
11-19-2014, 08:12 PM
Poor example because they absolutely are. If you committing certain crimes, particularly with deadly weapons, the police absolutely can use force to subdue you. So again, your comparison fails. Unless you're saying that police should never be able to use force to stop a crime. But good luck with that one...

Police can only use force when the criminal is using force. And secondly, they use it when the LAW IS BEING BROKEN.

SMH You clearly did not think that through.

JasonJohnHorn
11-19-2014, 08:18 PM
Pshhhh this is ridiculous and the reason that kids act so stupid these days. Have you seen the teens around nowadays? Makes me cringe when I see it.

My mother and father whipped me with their belts, TV cables, hands, saddles, and I appreciate because I didn't turn out to be a thug or bum like my childhood friends who weren't spanked.

Abuse is one thing, but hitting on the butt and a slap on the cheek is not bad at all, even tho I'm sure I'm in The monitory here.

I'm sorry you were abused, and even more so that you think it was perfectly fine.

Just because YOU turned out 'ok', doesn't mean it is a good practice. If you drive your car down a snowy road going 40 over the limit and nothing bad happens that one time, does that mean it is therefore ok to do it every time?

If a tall person says: I drank milk and grew to be 6'11, does that mean everybody who drinks milk will grow to be 6'11?

Obviously not. so why would you think a sample size of one is enough evidence for a subject as complex as this?

nastynice
11-19-2014, 09:11 PM
Police can only use force when the criminal is using force. And secondly, they use it when the LAW IS BEING BROKEN.

SMH You clearly did not think that through.

actually, no, police can use force if an innocent bystander doesn't do as instructed.

Not that I see what the hell it has to do with the topic at hand, but just wanted to point that out.

bagwell368
11-20-2014, 10:16 PM
kids nowadays are so freaking entitled lol. need some discipline. I got the back end of a fly swatter to the hands and butt when i got in trouble.

You see these stories of kids nowadays running roughshod on parents in stores and on the streets, totally disrespecting them. Gotta put them in their place even if it was light spanking (obviously there is overboard with this as people go way too far in their discipline)

Inept parenting isn't solved by spanking or worse. You have to have a license to have a dog, and go through hoops to adopt a dog, yet any pair of fools can make a baby.

My wife is a 4th grade teacher and about 25% of the parents are poor parents (for a whole slew of reasons). Getting frustrated and hitting a child is a sign of a frustrated parent.

Jeffy25
11-20-2014, 10:27 PM
Spanking is necessary sometimes as a parent from my perspective.

I was spanked with a belt, but I don't use one on my kids.


We have a set of punishments in our house that my wife and I remain consistent and stick to as best as we can. We have a 5 year old boy, and a 9 month old girl. Obviously, there are no punishments for the baby. But around 2-3 or so, it begins.


Verbal warning one, verbal warning two, time out (one minute for every year that you are old - 5 years old means 5 minutes), then spanking.

We rarely get to spanking. Usually, it ends at verbal warning one or two. And our son completely knows the process.

I have maybe spanked him 5 or 6 times, all over the last two years. My wife has maybe spanked him twice (I'm not really sure, but that sounds right).

The first rule of disciplining a child though, is to never let it be about you or your emotions. You can not spank when you are frustrated, or angry with the child. You have to do it calm and as a proper response. Following every punishment, you have a sit down talk about why he was punished. Five year olds get it. Our son completely responds and understands this.

And spankings aren't hard enough to actually hurt the damn kid. That is a key difference between spanking and hitting. Firm smacks on the behind are very different from whipping the kid and trying to hurt them. If you are leaving marks, you aren't doing it right.


Btw, I was spanked, and I am far from a violent person. Never even been in a real fight (got sucker punched once). I've heard people say that spanking encourages future violent behavior. I've never seen or heard any evidence to back this up. I think it's just a convenient narrative.

Jeffy25
11-20-2014, 10:34 PM
I will quote Louis C.K. and attempt to leave this thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJlV49RDlLE


If you don't have kids, and you judge parents, then you don't know what the **** you are talking about and shut the hell up.

Your view on parenting changes completely once you become a parent. Completely changes.

jerellh528
11-20-2014, 10:39 PM
I will quote Louis C.K. and attempt to leave this thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJlV49RDlLE


If you don't have kids, and you judge parents, then you don't know what the **** you are talking about and shut the hell up.

Your view on parenting changes completely once you become a parent. Completely changes.

Favorite comic by far. Louis ck always keeps it real

kblo247
11-21-2014, 12:27 AM
I am okay with popping them in certain times, I've popped my nephew before but that was when he was about to reach and touch a hot grill. Popped his hand away. Never really saw the need to whoops a kid especially with a buckle to you leave bruises, and that's what part of the belt they say Dwight used

krazylegz
11-21-2014, 12:56 AM
i thinks its a cultural thing...i used to get whooped when i was a kid...wooden spoon,belt and back before me ,my pops got worse than that....white liberals just put there kids in the corner and count the years before they are taking guns to school

oldbutjacked
11-21-2014, 01:07 AM
Half you little ***** on this board is proof kids need an *** whopping

jp611
11-21-2014, 03:36 AM
I will quote Louis C.K. and attempt to leave this thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJlV49RDlLE


If you don't have kids, and you judge parents, then you don't know what the **** you are talking about and shut the hell up.

Your view on parenting changes completely once you become a parent. Completely changes.

I'll leave an even better Louis CK quote about parenting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DULNyOHnjMA

Goose17
11-21-2014, 06:59 AM
....white liberals just put there kids in the corner and count the years before they are taking guns to school

Wow... racism? Seriously? Yeah you'll definitely be getting infracted for that.

Inferring that only white people can be liberals and only black people hit their kids... didn't expect that from you. Disgraceful.

5ass
11-21-2014, 08:23 AM
Half you little ***** on this board is proof kids need an *** whopping

Lol this is so true.

valade16
11-21-2014, 09:29 AM
I'll leave an even better Louis CK quote about parenting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DULNyOHnjMA

Was gonna say, I'm pretty sure Louis C.K. had a whole bit about hitting kids.

pebloemer
11-21-2014, 09:54 AM
Discipline is necessary. Child Abuse is not. There are many forms of discipline and some of more effective for different children than others. That said, anyone who's been a parent before understands the feeling of complete and utter exasperation when every tool you try seems ineffective in changing a child's behaviour. As a human being, I find the acts of Adrien Peterson despicable. As a father I'm somewhat sympathetic.

For certain children, stern discipline might be the only thing preventing them from running off into the middle of traffic. It's a very grey discussion.

Jamiecballer
11-21-2014, 10:35 AM
Spanking is necessary sometimes as a parent from my perspective.

I was spanked with a belt, but I don't use one on my kids.


We have a set of punishments in our house that my wife and I remain consistent and stick to as best as we can. We have a 5 year old boy, and a 9 month old girl. Obviously, there are no punishments for the baby. But around 2-3 or so, it begins.


Verbal warning one, verbal warning two, time out (one minute for every year that you are old - 5 years old means 5 minutes), then spanking.

We rarely get to spanking. Usually, it ends at verbal warning one or two. And our son completely knows the process.

I have maybe spanked him 5 or 6 times, all over the last two years. My wife has maybe spanked him twice (I'm not really sure, but that sounds right).

The first rule of disciplining a child though, is to never let it be about you or your emotions. You can not spank when you are frustrated, or angry with the child. You have to do it calm and as a proper response. Following every punishment, you have a sit down talk about why he was punished. Five year olds get it. Our son completely responds and understands this.

And spankings aren't hard enough to actually hurt the damn kid. That is a key difference between spanking and hitting. Firm smacks on the behind are very different from whipping the kid and trying to hurt them. If you are leaving marks, you aren't doing it right.


Btw, I was spanked, and I am far from a violent person. Never even been in a real fight (got sucker punched once). I've heard people say that spanking encourages future violent behavior. I've never seen or heard any evidence to back this up. I think it's just a convenient narrative.

our process is exactly the same minus the spanking. it sounds like you exercise patience and good judgement and i can't criticize it even if don't share the belief that the last step is necessary.

Jeffy25
11-21-2014, 04:35 PM
I'll leave an even better Louis CK quote about parenting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DULNyOHnjMA

Haha, I dont think I've ever heard that one

IgglesFanInCO
11-21-2014, 08:37 PM
Anybody who uses any type of physical force to teach their kids something is just a lazy parent. Theres too much evidence out there nowadays, physical punishment is incredibly ineffective. The people who use it are too ignorant to raise their child properly.

That being said, they have every right to do so without being excessive. I would define excessive in this sense as anything that remains after punishment. Bruises/blood drawn/etc.

FlashBolt
11-21-2014, 09:01 PM
Anybody who doesn't hit their kids are bred differently. Simple as that. There is no right/wrong answer to this. People who say, "kids are going to turn out messed up from getting hit" are wrong/right. I've seen kids who have grown up from wealthy parents become absolute idiots. I've seen kids who have grown up from poverty become well off and loving their parents. It's not lazy - it's called learning the hard way. Some kids don't learn. A lot of the athletes today were most likely hit and that is why they preserved. If you keep catering to your child, they will never learn. This isn't a basketball issue at all whatsoever so it shouldn't be here but I think that it is a great way to get an insight of things. I was hit as a kid. I never resented my parents because I knew that they just wanted the best for me and sometimes, that might mean teaching a lesson. We've become too soft as a society. I'm not saying you should whip your kids with belts and sandals. I'm just saying that an occasional slap/whip is not bad parenting. I can guarantee this happens in 1/3 households.. it's just a way of life.

Hawkeye15
11-21-2014, 09:19 PM
I'm just going to have to agree to disagree. If you believe spanking your child reasonably on thier bum with your hand is assualt, and will cause violent behavior, well that's just a fiber difference and I cant argue with that. However you might also want to withhold your children from contact sports or martial arts, maybe even video games so he doesn't go on a shooting spree.

agreed 10000000000%. Me, and my 3 siblings were spanked. We are college grads with great jobs and not violent in the slightest.

nastynice
11-21-2014, 09:39 PM
speaking of louis ck, ohh man, this one had me and my girl ROLLING, tears. I think it was just in sidebar of one of the earlier links

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wtrpj7lF5o

BALLER R
11-21-2014, 11:14 PM
That's why the generation now kids have no respect.

Chrisclover
11-21-2014, 11:45 PM
I think you can swat them on their bum with your hand. Using weapons is excessive.
faking using weapons could serve the same purpose.

Chrisclover
11-21-2014, 11:47 PM
What will Silver respond? Fine or suspension?

Chrisclover
11-21-2014, 11:49 PM
Now a days I think kids would rather be spanked than if you were to take away there Vidio games or I phones or comps.

For my lil man, if I take away his basketball than he learns his lesson real quick.
Your kid is so easy to handle with. If I were a kid, I would not succumb to the deprivation of a mere basketball. lol