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View Full Version : Jimmy Butler or Kawhi Leonard?



Hulk6
11-16-2014, 01:36 AM
Both these young ballers are some of the best 2 way players in the league, Butler is off to a great start this year carrying the load while drose has been recovering and has really improved his mid range game, already has more 20+ point games this year than in his career.

Weve all seen what kawhi can do in last years playoffs and even though hes off to a rough start this season because of that eye injury, he is surely bound to turn it around.

My question for u PSD: if both these players were FA at the end of the year, who would you lock up long term? take into consideration not only what they have done so far but who u think will be a better player throughout their careers.

Shammyguy3
11-16-2014, 01:44 AM
really tough question - as a Bulls fan who has seen 10x the amount of games Butler has played in compared to Kawhi, I'll take Jimmy. As outsider fans though, not sure how you draw the line

FlashBolt
11-16-2014, 01:45 AM
Pretty even. These guys are incredibly similar. However, I gotta go with Leonard here. Butler may end up being the better player but a span of 8 games does not say much.

Kyben36
11-16-2014, 02:11 AM
My opinion is simple, Kawai Leonard + Thibs > Jimmy + Thibs. While Jimmy is a great defender and developing offensive tallent, I think Kawai's length would give him the edge if he was with a coach like Thibs. Jimmy only has a 6'7 wingspan for a 6'7 player, Leonards got a 7'3 " wingspan for a 6'7 player, an extra 7 inches could be a hell of a diference.

This all said, Jimmy has been balling this year, and im happy to see him finally offensively come together.

abe_froman
11-16-2014, 02:13 AM
butler really is having an incredible breakout year so far,but i feel more comfortable with leonard. i'll say kawhai,but by a hair.

ILLUSIONIST^248
11-16-2014, 02:40 AM
Leonard. Finals MVP

Ezio
11-16-2014, 02:49 AM
My opinion is simple, Kawai Leonard + Thibs > Jimmy + Thibs. While Jimmy is a great defender and developing offensive tallent, I think Kawai's length would give him the edge if he was with a coach like Thibs. Jimmy only has a 6'7 wingspan for a 6'7 player, Leonards got a 7'3 " wingspan for a 6'7 player, an extra 7 inches could be a hell of a diference.

This all said, Jimmy has been balling this year, and im happy to see him finally offensively come together.

Then why does Snell suck?

tredigs
11-16-2014, 03:29 AM
To Bulls fans or anybody who has followed him closely - what do you attribute his offensive breakout to this season? 4th season... already 25 year old... wasn't playing in FIBA... just wildly outperforming expectations of him for this season and is crazy efficient.

8 game sample size fluke with regression coming any time now, or is this close to the player you expect him to be all season?

abe_froman
11-16-2014, 03:45 AM
To Bulls fans or anybody who has followed him closely - what do you attribute his offensive breakout to this season? 4th season... already 25 year old... wasn't playing in FIBA... just wildly outperforming expectations of him for this season and is crazy efficient.

8 game sample size fluke with regression coming any time now, or is this close to the player you expect him to be all season?
a few things.he actually somewhat broke out in his 2nd year in limited mins(18 ppg per100,57 ts%,7 ws,ect.),and was looking to make this type of jump going into his 3rd year...but he was nagged by injuries last year(but played through them) and was forcing alot of ill advised shots(my guess was trying to a number 1 when seeing a lack of one).getting his 3pt shot back ,an improved mid range game, and drawing a lot more fouls is whats doing it.its something that should be sustainable(maybe not this high a level ,but close to it.)

koreancabbage
11-16-2014, 06:45 AM
I'd go with Butler because I think this year you will see Butler become a better two player than Leonard.

ManningToTyree
11-16-2014, 06:47 AM
Leonard

kozelkid
11-16-2014, 07:28 AM
Then why does Snell suck?

Seriously. Not to mention Leonard plays for this great coach too, Greg Popovich. Might'a heard of him?

lamzoka
11-16-2014, 09:11 AM
I'd take Jimmy Butler for the Knicks, but if I'm the Spurs I would not trade Kawhi for him. I don't know if that make sense but let me try break it down.

For me Spurs players are a product of a system and it's working really well for them. If you watch them play the way they execute, teamwork, dedication it's flawless. It's like there is no scrub on their entire roster. But there are at least 5 teams out there who wouldn't trade their 15 man roster with the Spurs.

Remembered what Gary Neal did during the 2013 NBA finals. There were debates about who's gonna be the finals MVP if the Spurs win between him and Danny Green.

Quick, what team Garry Neal plays for now?

Pop turned a washed up Boris Diaw to like 4th best player on a championship team.

The man deserve a ****ing MVP and a finals MVP. POP IS THE BASKETBALL GOD.

ewing
11-16-2014, 09:19 AM
I'd like to say Butler but Lenoard just won finals MVP and since i think it is close Pop comments on him sway me. In Pop i trust.

mike_noodles
11-16-2014, 09:36 AM
I haven't seen Kawhi play yet this year, so I can't really say. But having seen Butler play, I know that he's a guy I would want on my team.

jp611
11-16-2014, 09:49 AM
To Bulls fans or anybody who has followed him closely - what do you attribute his offensive breakout to this season? 4th season... already 25 year old... wasn't playing in FIBA... just wildly outperforming expectations of him for this season and is crazy efficient.

8 game sample size fluke with regression coming any time now, or is this close to the player you expect him to be all season?

I don't expect him to post nearly a .65 TS% the rest of the season. He's been pretty efficient for his career, but this is unheard of numbers. Regression is coming, but he's still awesome.

North Yorker
11-16-2014, 09:57 AM
Both of these guys are getting Chandler Parsons type offers in RFA. So many teams have cap space and a need at the SF position.

Ezio
11-16-2014, 05:58 PM
Both of these guys are getting Chandler Parsons type offers in RFA. So many teams have cap space and a need at the SF position.

And both should stay with their teams.

But Butler has been poised to do well. Last season he was basically the #1 option this season he has Pau while Rose is out. But I think he's pissed that he didn't get an extension and is basically saying well I only wanted ~13 mil but now I'll bust my *** to get max.

DamnGoat
11-16-2014, 06:13 PM
I'm skeptical about whether Jimmy can keep up the shooting (though his form looks much better and he's not playing with turf toe like he did all last season), but he's always had a high FT rate and was pretty efficient in his 2nd season. I'm surprised that he's doing this with a higher usage (though not on the same level as Rose or Gasol), but he just looks like an overall different player to me. He's more aggressive with his drives, a better passer and a more selective 3PT shooter.

Even if/when he tails off some, he still has a chance at being one of the best 3rd options in the league and he still has tremendous value as a defender. He's sorta developing into the player that a lot of Bulls fans always wanted Deng to become, but never did.

5ass
11-16-2014, 07:23 PM
Jimmy butler, he's going to be the better player IMO. He really improved his shot and ball handling. Better defender too IMO. More fire to his game.

JordansBulls
11-16-2014, 07:47 PM
Right now Kawhi, but after the playoffs this year Butler as he will be the guy to lock down Melo, Wade and Lebron in consecutive series.

koreancabbage
11-16-2014, 10:24 PM
Right now Kawhi, but after the playoffs this year Butler as he will be the guy to lock down Melo, Wade and Lebron in consecutive series.

I think Butler is already the better offensive player.

Seizabmc
11-16-2014, 10:26 PM
To answer your question ,
Jimmy

But as a knick fan I would rather have iman shumpert.

And this season he will show everyone why he belongs in convo with leanord and jimmy.

InRoseWeTrust
11-16-2014, 11:40 PM
Bulls fan here, and a huge fan of Jimmy. This very second, I'm voting Kawhi. Jury is out long term though.

Kaner
11-17-2014, 01:21 AM
I went with Jimmy, their skill set's are extremely comparable but I think Jimmy is the better playmaker and much better at drawing contact which is really the only thing that seperates them on the court right now. Really though what sways me is I just think that Jimmy's work ethic and competitive spirit is 2nd to no one in the nba today. It's seriously Kobe/Jordan-esque. It's what has taken him from playing basketball for a junior college to poised to receive a max contract this offseason and why I think he will continue to improve. I know that Kawhi has received plenty of praise for both of those attributes, from Pop no less, but watching and listening to Jimmy you can tell how dedicated he is to winning, whatever it takes.

YAALREADYKNO
11-17-2014, 11:18 AM
Jimmy

Miltstar
11-17-2014, 11:37 AM
Watching Jimmy against my Raptors he completely shut down everyone he was matched up against. Tough dude, I don't get to see a lot of Leonard, but both have the benefit of having some great interior defenders to help them out. I agree with the dude that says Shumpert belongs in the convo, saw him in pre-season he looked tough as nails although he's behind the other 2 offensivly

Sadds The Gr8
11-17-2014, 12:22 PM
Surprised everyone is saying butler. He's been great this year but I highly doubt he keeps up this offensive output. If he does I'll take him over Kawhi but for now It's Kawhi pretty easily imo

72 Wins
11-17-2014, 12:29 PM
Too early to put Jimmy above Kawhi at this point. But as others have said, Butler is playing amazing this year. The key with him though is his confidence. He no longer has issues bringing up the ball and what an improved shot this year! I think Butler has an edge on strength. He's a beast. Can't see many sg's in the league that can stop him taking it hard to the basket.

72 Wins
11-17-2014, 12:31 PM
Surprised everyone is saying butler.

Not reflective of the poll though. lol

Sadds The Gr8
11-17-2014, 01:44 PM
Not reflective of the poll though. lol
Oh. I'm on tapatalk so I can't see the poll. Just judging off the posts in here

abe_froman
11-17-2014, 01:50 PM
Oh. I'm on tapatalk so I can't see the poll. Just judging off the posts in here

actually i dont think you are either.most are saying leonard,its just people are talking about jimmy's start

Seizabmc
11-17-2014, 08:22 PM
I just read that someone said that there aren't many sgs that can stop jimmy .
Well even though the knicks got blown out by the bulls on opening night,
Shump clearly out played jimmy in that game when he was matched up against him.
Jimmy scored some points , but most of them against Tim hardaway jr.

Shump locked him down and even showed some skills offensively against him.

Shump is finally gonna have a full season playing within a proven system.

The one thing both leanord and jimmy had over shump or shall I say had,
Was one played for pop and the other thibs.
Now shump got Phil and fisher watch him grow!!!

Kaner
11-17-2014, 10:40 PM
I just read that someone said that there aren't many sgs that can stop jimmy .
Well even though the knicks got blown out by the bulls on opening night,
Shump clearly out played jimmy in that game when he was matched up against him.
Jimmy scored some points , but most of them against Tim hardaway jr.

Shump locked him down and even showed some skills offensively against him.

Shump is finally gonna have a full season playing within a proven system.

The one thing both leanord and jimmy had over shump or shall I say had,
Was one played for pop and the other thibs.
Now shump got Phil and fisher watch him grow!!!

:facepalm:

This is the kind of made up junk that loses you any and all credibility

Jimmy Butler was out against the Knicks.

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-17-2014, 11:19 PM
I just read that someone said that there aren't many sgs that can stop jimmy .
Well even though the knicks got blown out by the bulls on opening night,
Shump clearly out played jimmy in that game when he was matched up against him.
Jimmy scored some points , but most of them against Tim hardaway jr.

Shump locked him down and even showed some skills offensively against him.

Shump is finally gonna have a full season playing within a proven system.

The one thing both leanord and jimmy had over shump or shall I say had,
Was one played for pop and the other thibs.
Now shump got Phil and fisher watch him grow!!!


:facepalm:

This is the kind of made up junk that loses you any and all credibility

Jimmy Butler was out against the Knicks.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Seizabmc
11-17-2014, 11:21 PM
Oh my bad that was demar derozon in preseason .
I apologize .

northsider
11-18-2014, 10:55 AM
hahahahahahaha lord almighty I love the ******** you can read on here.

northsider
11-18-2014, 10:55 AM
Oh my bad that was demar derozon in preseason .
I apologize .

Okay, I can clearly see how you could get confused by two different teams and two different players, it happens.

72 Wins
11-18-2014, 11:27 AM
:facepalm:

This is the kind of made up junk that loses you any and all credibility

Jimmy Butler was out against the Knicks.



Okay, I can clearly see how you could get confused by two different teams and two different players, it happens.



:laugh::laugh::laugh::win: This is exactly why some Knick fans suck.

DaBUU
11-18-2014, 01:41 PM
:facepalm:

This is the kind of made up junk that loses you any and all credibility

Jimmy Butler was out against the Knicks.

oops

:laugh:

SPURSFAN1
11-18-2014, 05:20 PM
Kawhi by a landslide. Nothing to see here.

D_Rose1118
11-18-2014, 05:45 PM
Kawhi by a landslide. Nothing to see here.

yes by a landslide...

sheesh talk about bias

chitownbulls
11-18-2014, 08:33 PM
Kawhi by a landslide. Nothing to see here.

Landslide? If Butler keeps up his current level of play, I'd pick him...

YashBoone
11-19-2014, 12:22 AM
Leonard .

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-19-2014, 02:34 AM
I'm sure SPURSFAN1 hasn't seen too much of Jimmy Butler.

MonroeFAN
11-19-2014, 09:39 AM
How is it that we continue to let him run wild like a kid gearing up for recess?

SPURSFAN1
11-19-2014, 11:25 PM
How is it that we continue to let him run wild like a kid gearing up for recess?

So, how are the pistons this year? lol

ewing
11-20-2014, 12:56 AM
Kawhi only had 12 tonight but he did look very fluid with the ball in traffic. I really wonder both how good he is and how much room for growth he has.

SPURSFAN1
11-20-2014, 01:07 AM
12 points 10 rebounds 4 steals 4 assists. Checked the best player in the game and won on the road.

DaBear
11-20-2014, 01:19 AM
I just read that someone said that there aren't many sgs that can stop jimmy .
Well even though the knicks got blown out by the bulls on opening night,
Shump clearly out played jimmy in that game when he was matched up against him.
Jimmy scored some points , but most of them against Tim hardaway jr.

Shump locked him down and even showed some skills offensively against him.

Shump is finally gonna have a full season playing within a proven system.

The one thing both leanord and jimmy had over shump or shall I say had,
Was one played for pop and the other thibs.
Now shump got Phil and fisher watch him grow!!!

Knicks fans :sigh:

Shammyguy3
11-20-2014, 01:36 AM
12 points 10 rebounds 4 steals 4 assists. Checked the best player in the game and won on the road.

Took him 11 shots and 6 free throws to score the 12 points. Right now, Butler's vastly outplaying Leonard this year. Such a small sample size yes, but you can't point out just "solid" games by a player on arguably the best team in the league in November. You do that, I can easily bring up the following:

Butler: 22.5 PER 62.5ts% .221 3PAr 0.590 FTr 21.3usg% 126 ORtg 0.241 WS/48 0.6 VORP 4.7 BPM 16.1ast% 8.9tov% 8.6trb% .... PER36 19.0/5.6/3.5

Leonard: 18.7 PER 53.3ts% 0.268 3PAr 0.278 FTr 20.4usg% 108 ORtg 0.183 WS/48 0.5 VORP 5.0 BPM 13.7ast% 9.9tov% 14.7trb% .... PER36 15.5/9.2/2.8


This question can't be determined until at least half way through the season with a much larger sample size.

chitownbulls
11-20-2014, 01:38 AM
Took him 11 shots and 6 free throws to score the 12 points. Right now, Butler's vastly outplaying Leonard this year. Such a small sample size yes, but you can't point out just "solid" games by a player on arguably the best team in the league in November. You do that, I can easily bring up the following:

Butler: 22.5 PER 62.5ts% .221 3PAr 0.590 FTr 21.3usg% 126 ORtg 0.241 WS/48 0.6 VORP 4.7 BPM 16.1ast% 8.9tov% 8.6trb% .... PER36 19.0/5.6/3.5

Leonard: 18.7 PER 53.3ts% 0.268 3PAr 0.278 FTr 20.4usg% 108 ORtg 0.183 WS/48 0.5 VORP 5.0 BPM 13.7ast% 9.9tov% 14.7trb% .... PER36 15.5/9.2/2.8


This question can't be determined until at least half way through the season with a much larger sample size.

Damn.

ewing
11-20-2014, 01:40 AM
Took him 11 shots and 6 free throws to score the 12 points. Right now, Butler's vastly outplaying Leonard this year. Such a small sample size yes, but you can't point out just "solid" games by a player on arguably the best team in the league in November. You do that, I can easily bring up the following:

Butler: 22.5 PER 62.5ts% .221 3PAr 0.590 FTr 21.3usg% 126 ORtg 0.241 WS/48 0.6 VORP 4.7 BPM 16.1ast% 8.9tov% 8.6trb% .... PER36 19.0/5.6/3.5

Leonard: 18.7 PER 53.3ts% 0.268 3PAr 0.278 FTr 20.4usg% 108 ORtg 0.183 WS/48 0.5 VORP 5.0 BPM 13.7ast% 9.9tov% 14.7trb% .... PER36 15.5/9.2/2.8


This question can't be determined until at least half way through the season with a much larger sample size.


very insightful, If i had never seen either guy play i feel like i a would have a very good feel.

jerellh528
11-20-2014, 01:41 AM
I'll take the fmvp. My Choice may change to butler if he keeps this up all season and Leonard doesn't make any huge leap.

SPURSFAN1
11-20-2014, 01:58 AM
Took him 11 shots and 6 free throws to score the 12 points. Right now, Butler's vastly outplaying Leonard this year. Such a small sample size yes, but you can't point out just "solid" games by a player on arguably the best team in the league in November. You do that, I can easily bring up the following:

Butler: 22.5 PER 62.5ts% .221 3PAr 0.590 FTr 21.3usg% 126 ORtg 0.241 WS/48 0.6 VORP 4.7 BPM 16.1ast% 8.9tov% 8.6trb% .... PER36 19.0/5.6/3.5

Leonard: 18.7 PER 53.3ts% 0.268 3PAr 0.278 FTr 20.4usg% 108 ORtg 0.183 WS/48 0.5 VORP 5.0 BPM 13.7ast% 9.9tov% 14.7trb% .... PER36 15.5/9.2/2.8


This question can't be determined until at least half way through the season with a much larger sample size.

So no preseason for kawhi and playing with blurry eyes. No need to bring that up. Nothing beats winning a FMVP though. Easy to pick Kawhi.

SPURSFAN1
11-20-2014, 02:01 AM
You talk about 12 in 10 but what did Lebron shoot? :laugh:

Ezio
11-20-2014, 12:37 PM
So no preseason for kawhi and playing with blurry eyes. No need to bring that up. Nothing beats winning a FMVP though. Easy to pick Kawhi.

Butler missing games here and there, playing with a sprain shoulder and thumb. FMVP could of easily gone to TD. :yawn:

SPURSFAN1
11-20-2014, 04:40 PM
Butler missing games here and there, playing with a sprain shoulder and thumb. FMVP could of easily gone to TD. :yawn:

If you actually watched the finals, Kawhi was the best player on the Spurs the whole series. Even SA knew it. They were all cheering MVP multiple times. Go back and watch it.

Ezio
11-20-2014, 05:08 PM
If you actually watched the finals, Kawhi was the best player on the Spurs the whole series. Even SA knew it. They were all cheering MVP multiple times. Go back and watch it.

LOL I'm not even gonna bother. He was the "best" player in the last what 3 games when SAS was just rolling through their ball movement. I could care less about defending Lebron when your offense was just making shot after shot after shot while Wade/Bosh were playing meh.

Bulls_fan90
11-20-2014, 08:20 PM
I just read that someone said that there aren't many sgs that can stop jimmy .
Well even though the knicks got blown out by the bulls on opening night,
Shump clearly out played jimmy in that game when he was matched up against him.
Jimmy scored some points , but most of them against Tim hardaway jr.

Shump locked him down and even showed some skills offensively against him.

Shump is finally gonna have a full season playing within a proven system.

The one thing both leanord and jimmy had over shump or shall I say had,
Was one played for pop and the other thibs.
Now shump got Phil and fisher watch him grow!!!


:facepalm:

This is the kind of made up junk that loses you any and all credibility

Jimmy Butler was out against the Knicks.

This is one of the funniest things I've read on PSD in a while :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Shammyguy3
11-20-2014, 08:51 PM
So no preseason for kawhi and playing with blurry eyes. No need to bring that up. Nothing beats winning a FMVP though. Easy to pick Kawhi.

There's zero reason to bring up a single game in November where Kawhi didn't even play that well if you're just going to say "FMVP" after the fact when shown how much better Butler is playing right now


You talk about 12 in 10 but what did Lebron shoot? :laugh:

Doesn't matter what Lebron shot, 12 points on 10 shots isn't that great offensively; Butler's a far better offensive player thi searly into the season, and I don't think you could argue which way for who's the better defender

Stunner
11-20-2014, 09:41 PM
Lol

SPURSFAN1
11-21-2014, 12:47 AM
There's zero reason to bring up a single game in November where Kawhi didn't even play that well if you're just going to say "FMVP" after the fact when shown how much better Butler is playing right now



Doesn't matter what Lebron shot, 12 points on 10 shots isn't that great offensively; Butler's a far better offensive player thi searly into the season, and I don't think you could argue which way for who's the better defender

We aren't arguing who the better offensive player is for the first 10 games. We are arguing who is the better player. If you believe he is going to keep this up and bring it in the playoffs that's fine. I'm a very realistic person. That ain't happening. If he improves from last year, he still wouldn't be the better player. Kawhi is the best perimeter defender in the game in case you didn't notice. http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/defense-per-game
Top 3 team this year. Kawhi is the best defender on the team. I wonder where the bulls are right now.

SPURSFAN1
11-21-2014, 12:59 AM
Lol

Goose17
11-21-2014, 06:54 AM
For now it's Leonard. And it's not as close as some of you are making out. Butler has had a great 10 game stretch, but so are a lot of guys. People need to stop jumping the gun with sample sizes that are so small.

His TS% has jumped by 10% from last season... do people realise how ****ing insane a leap that is? Even if you take the last season where he was healthy for 82 games (his sophomore year) it's still a 5% jump, and he was playing less minutes then so taking less shots. For comparison sake, his TS% is comparable to Kevin Durants last season, it's only marginally lower.

His PER has jumped from 13.5 to 22.6

If these numbers remain consistent, then we need to bump this topic at the end of the season and seriously reevaluate both players. But I'm off the opinion that numbers like this tend to regress as the season goes on. Time will tell, I'll gladly eat my hat at the end of all this, big fan of Butler, would like to see him maintain this.

Doogolas
11-21-2014, 12:30 PM
For now it's Leonard. And it's not as close as some of you are making out. Butler has had a great 10 game stretch, but so are a lot of guys. People need to stop jumping the gun with sample sizes that are so small.

His TS% has jumped by 10% from last season... do people realise how ****ing insane a leap that is? Even if you take the last season where he was healthy for 82 games (his sophomore year) it's still a 5% jump, and he was playing less minutes then so taking less shots. For comparison sake, his TS% is comparable to Kevin Durants last season, it's only marginally lower.

His PER has jumped from 13.5 to 22.6

If these numbers remain consistent, then we need to bump this topic at the end of the season and seriously reevaluate both players. But I'm off the opinion that numbers like this tend to regress as the season goes on. Time will tell, I'll gladly eat my hat at the end of all this, big fan of Butler, would like to see him maintain this.

You realize he was hurt all of last year right? And that before that he .567ts% for his career over his first two years? And that he's ALWAYS been great at getting to the line? He's literally just being more aggressive with the ball this year. He's always been super efficient, but his foot injury murdered his shot last year.

And not that it matters, but it's now been 12 games. At what point is it acceptable to say, "Oh, yeah, this is probably who he is."

Look how ridiculously consistent his numbers are:

His worst two game stretch of the year was 11/8 and 11/10, in which he put up 14 one night, 19 the next. His ts% was .588, and he shot 46.4% from the field. He has not had back to back games with a ts% below .600, ****ing .600. He's had exactly 1 game in which his ts% was below .500, and he's not gone back to back nights without at least 19.

Three times he's scored less than 20 this year. He's also getting more assists, and turning it over less than he ever has despite being more of a focus in the offense. (Note his TOV% is down, overall counting stat TO are up a bit because he has the ball more).

It is absolutely as close as people are making it out to be, and it's not even that hard to argue Butler is better right now.

ewing
11-21-2014, 12:34 PM
Hi

JordansBulls
11-21-2014, 12:54 PM
Well Jimmy Butler literally locks down Lebron James and when Kawhi was entering the game in the finals one game on how Lebron reacted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkUxrM2m31s

Goose17
11-21-2014, 01:06 PM
You realize he was hurt all of last year right? And that before that he .567ts% for his career over his first two years? And that he's ALWAYS been great at getting to the line? He's literally just being more aggressive with the ball this year. He's always been super efficient, but his foot injury murdered his shot last year.

And not that it matters, but it's now been 12 games. At what point is it acceptable to say, "Oh, yeah, this is probably who he is."

Look how ridiculously consistent his numbers are:

His worst two game stretch of the year was 11/8 and 11/10, in which he put up 14 one night, 19 the next. His ts% was .588, and he shot 46.4% from the field. He has not had back to back games with a ts% below .600, ****ing .600. He's had exactly 1 game in which his ts% was below .500, and he's not gone back to back nights without at least 19.

Three times he's scored less than 20 this year. He's also getting more assists, and turning it over less than he ever has despite being more of a focus in the offense. (Note his TOV% is down, overall counting stat TO are up a bit because he has the ball more).

It is absolutely as close as people are making it out to be, and it's not even that hard to argue Butler is better right now.

Yes I'm aware he wqs hurt that's why I said so. Did you even read the post?

Last season he played 60+ games and averaged 38 minutes. His TS% was 10% lower than it is now.

And you can't say after a dozen games that he's going to score as efficiently as Durant (which he is currently doing) that's just moronic fandom. Too small a sample size. Sorry.

And no its not close. Not right now. You can't compare 12 games to an entire body of work. That's foolish.

Doogolas
11-21-2014, 02:41 PM
Yes I'm aware he wqs hurt that's why I said so. Did you even read the post?

Last season he played 60+ games and averaged 38 minutes. His TS% was 10% lower than it is now.

And you can't say after a dozen games that he's going to score as efficiently as Durant (which he is currently doing) that's just moronic fandom. Too small a sample size. Sorry.

And no its not close. Not right now. You can't compare 12 games to an entire body of work. That's foolish.

He doesn't need to score THIS efficiently to be better than Leonard. Being more of a focus on offense and getting back to what he did in terms of efficiency a couple of years ago more than makes up for what would be a minor difference in efficiency.

What entire body of work? Leonard has had one season where he was clearly better than Butler, that was last year. And to this point their entire body of work is EXTREMELY similar:

.587ts% for Leonard to .550 for Jimmy. 114ORTG to 116 for Leonard. 10.9PPG for Leonard to 12.5 for Jimmy. They have the EXACT same offensive rebounding rate for their careers. Leonard is obviously a better defensive rebounder. Jimmy has the advantage in passing, and neither of them turn it over almost ever. Both are elite defenders.

It's EXTREMELY close, and that's before considering recent history, and the fact that as much as Leonard was better than Jimmy last year (+8 in ORTG), Jimmy has been THAT MUCH BETTER this year (+18ORTG).

Seriously, they're both damn good players, and it's extremely close. Even I would say Leonard is probably better right now, but to act like it's not extremely close is just silly.

TheIlladelph16
11-21-2014, 02:44 PM
Well Jimmy Butler literally locks down Lebron James and when Kawhi was entering the game in the finals one game on how Lebron reacted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkUxrM2m31s

Is this all you say on here any more? You used to at least offer some insight between your Jordan schtick that was genuinely interesting. Now all I see you post is "Jimmy Butler is going to lock down Lebron" or variations of it.

Munkeysuit
11-21-2014, 04:17 PM
In my honest opinion, Kawhi has more upside to his entire game BUT I'd rather have Jimmy Butler on my team.

SPURSFAN1
11-21-2014, 04:54 PM
Well Jimmy Butler literally locks down Lebron James and when Kawhi was entering the game in the finals one game on how Lebron reacted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkUxrM2m31s

This will go down in history I bet.