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Longhornfan1234
11-13-2014, 02:12 PM
25 points/ 13 rebounds/ 2 assists/ 2 steals/ 4 blocks/ 59 TS%/ 35 PER/ .308 WS/48.


He will most likely sustain this production. His Per and WS/48 will go down a tad.

Any one else agree?

Longhornfan1234
11-13-2014, 02:13 PM
FYI... I'm not saying AD is better than them career wise. He's just better than them individually.

aman_13
11-13-2014, 02:17 PM
I would be surprised if anyone disagrees.

Edit: I thought he meant right now.

Goose17
11-13-2014, 02:21 PM
Better than Duncan? You're declaring Davis the greatest PF to play the game after one good season and like 7 great games... are you serious?

Jetsguy
11-13-2014, 02:22 PM
wait so at 21 Davis is better than KD and Timmy were at 21 is that what you are saying?

kingsdelez24
11-13-2014, 02:26 PM
Yeah no

abe_froman
11-13-2014, 02:27 PM
better than timmy and kg? wow...

and to think he was only like 4th in the psd pf rankings.going from underrated,to insanely overrated in the matter of a few weeks.

kingsdelez24
11-13-2014, 02:27 PM
I'd be more comfortable building a team around 21 year old Duncan or KG any day

Longhornfan1234
11-13-2014, 02:28 PM
I'm saying 21 year old AD > prime KG and Duncan. No team accomplishments considered. We're judging individual talent.

jaydubb
11-13-2014, 02:28 PM
I haven't seen Davis get a quadruple double in the NBA finals yet.. He's great in the regular season no doubt but I judge players a lot on post season play personally so I'm gonna withhold my comparisons at the moment cuz I haven't really seen Davis in the post season yet..

Talent wise, definitely agree I'm ADs biggest fan but imo has to prove he can get it done in the post season as well.

TrueFan420
11-13-2014, 02:31 PM
25 points/ 13 rebounds/ 2 assists/ 2 steals/ 4 blocks/ 59 TS%/ 35 PER/ .308 WS/48.


He will most likely sustain this production. His Per and WS/48 will go down a tad.

Any one else agree?
One its just 7 games but the least you could do is post duncan and KG's stats at the age of 21 to give a comparison.

Goose17
11-13-2014, 02:34 PM
I'm saying 21 year old AD > prime KG and Duncan. No team accomplishments considered. We're judging individual talent.

7 games.

No.

No.

TrueFan420
11-13-2014, 02:34 PM
I'm saying 21 year old AD > prime KG and Duncan. No team accomplishments considered. We're judging individual talent.

You're crazy then... Wait untill he can get his team to the playoffs. I think he will end up better than KG but Duncan there's no way.

Longhornfan1234
11-13-2014, 02:35 PM
One its just 7 games but the least you could do is post duncan and KG's stats at the age of 21 to give a comparison.

Don't need to. We all know 21 year oldDavis is more efficient, better low post scorer and low post defender than prime KG.

We all know 21 year old Davis is more athletic, versatile, and has much superior range than prime Duncan.

jaydubb
11-13-2014, 02:36 PM
I think some people forget exactly how dominant kg and duncan were in their prime.. The stats are great, but they don't tell the whole story

Longhornfan1234
11-13-2014, 02:38 PM
Lol at people mentioning Davis has to make the playoffs. We're not talking about team success. Not everyone can be carried defensively by the Admiral '99-'03 and have the best backcourt in league in 05-07.

Goose17
11-13-2014, 02:40 PM
7 games.

Longhornfan1234
11-13-2014, 02:41 PM
7 games.
What makes you think he will not sustain this production?

nastynice
11-13-2014, 02:46 PM
I don't disagree with OP, but you are MAJOR jumping the gun here. Maybe at season's end you can start trying to make an argument, most probably sometime next season, if he keeps it up, you can really start making an argument.

7 games is way too little. Why not just 1 game?

SPURSFAN1
11-13-2014, 02:50 PM
Are people this freaking dense? :laugh2:

KingPosey
11-13-2014, 02:52 PM
ya come on guys, lets be real, just admit ADavis is already the greatest PF OF ALL TIME like the OP is stating.

KingPosey
11-13-2014, 02:53 PM
What makes you think he will not sustain this production?

because the track record historically is that people do not become the best Pf of all time.

Jamiecballer
11-13-2014, 02:55 PM
i don't know if Duncan or Garnett ever had a 7 game stretch that was more impressive, but it's still just a 7 game stretch.

PhillyFaninLA
11-13-2014, 03:00 PM
Sounds like someone doesn't know basketball existed before 2012.

SPURSFAN1
11-13-2014, 03:05 PM
i don't know if Duncan or Garnett ever had a 7 game stretch that was more impressive, but it's still just a 7 game stretch.

And Tim Duncan almost had a quadruple double in a championship clinching game. Can AD even get his team to the playoffs before people declare him the best PF of all time. What kind of leader is he? Lot of intangibles that make a player great. Have we set the bar so low we only talk about stats and no real accomplishments atleast when talking about a greatest of all time discussion. :confused:

M.I.A.
11-13-2014, 03:05 PM
FYI... I'm not saying AD is better than them career wise. He's just better than them individually.

AD is good, sure, but he'll have to sustain those numbers to be anywhere near as good as TD and KG. How do you know he isn't just a flash in the pan and then he'll fizzle out? You don't.

kdspurman
11-13-2014, 03:09 PM
Wow.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2014, 03:11 PM
I'm saying 21 year old AD > prime KG and Duncan. No team accomplishments considered. We're judging individual talent.

absolutely not dude, cmon

jaydubb
11-13-2014, 03:11 PM
i don't know if Duncan or Garnett ever had a 7 game stretch that was more impressive, but it's still just a 7 game stretch.

Tim Duncan 2003 NBA finals:

24.2 pts 17.0 rebounds 5.3 asts 5.3 blocks

Anthony Davis first 7 games this year:

24.9 pts 12.9 rebounds 2 asts 4.4 blocks

jaydubb
11-13-2014, 03:12 PM
And Tim Duncan almost had a quadruple double in a championship clinching game. Can AD even get his team to the playoffs before people declare him the best PF of all time. What kind of leader is he? Lot of intangibles that make a player great. Have we set the bar so low we only talk about stats and no real accomplishments atleast when talking about a greatest of all time discussion. :confused:

^^^^

Yep

JasonJohnHorn
11-13-2014, 03:13 PM
The level he has started the season at is as high as any level I've seen from TD of KG throughout the course of a season, but I've seen TD put together stretches where he was averaging 30/16 when Pop was playing him 40 minutes.

At 21, as a rookie, TD averaged 21/12 with 2.5 blocks and almost 3 assists. Davis has a couple of NBA seasons before 21, so obviously he's a little more NBA read, but if you compare their third seasons, it's closer.


If these are The Brow's averages at the end of the season, I would say that is a better individual statistical season than either KG or TD ever had, but Duncan was also sharing the ball with D-Rob and was on a deep team, so that hits his stats a little, and he was sharing the post defense with D-Rob, so that cut in on is block stats.


And KG and TD, as I said, have put together strings of games where they just dominated. I remember Duncan at 25. He stepped out to 15-18 feet, you had to have two guy on him, or he'd just dump a bank shot in on you and nobody was stopping him. Pop used that to spread the floor get other guys looks. Duncan could have been posting 35 a game then if he was like Kobe and demanded the ball. I don't think Davis has got that offensive game.


What I love about Davis is the low number of turnover and fouls.... with that number of steals and blocks... less than 2 pf a game is INSANE!!!

I got a bonner over Davis... and yes... if he can hold up these averages for a season, he will have put together one of the greatest seasons ever. But as team watch tape and coaches design defensive sets to slow him down, and offensive sets that adjust for his defense, these numbers will come down. His impact on defense will still be present, because team will adjust their offence, but his numbers won't show it as much. Right now guys still think they can take him to the hole. When the guys he blocked 2 or 3 times a game come back, they'll opt for jumpers or a pass unless they know they got him.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2014, 03:14 PM
And Tim Duncan almost had a quadruple double in a championship clinching game. Can AD even get his team to the playoffs before people declare him the best PF of all time. What kind of leader is he? Lot of intangibles that make a player great. Have we set the bar so low we only talk about stats and no real accomplishments atleast when talking about a greatest of all time discussion. :confused:

to be fair, Duncan landed on a team that was a championship contender that had one injury plagued year, where they pretty much tanked the last 30 games to get a high pick. AD doesn't have anywhere in the same universe the help Duncan did when he got into the league, or at any point during Duncan's time with the Spurs.

But hell to the no, is AD on the same level as Duncan/KG in their peak. Will he get there? It is looking like he might, but we probably need to let him prove it first haha

2-ONE-5
11-13-2014, 03:16 PM
I'm saying 21 year old AD > prime KG and Duncan. No team accomplishments considered. We're judging individual talent.

no you are out of your damn mind

DoMeFavors
11-13-2014, 03:19 PM
I'm saying 21 year old AD > prime KG and Duncan. No team accomplishments considered. We're judging individual talent.

prime KG led the league in per and also led the league in rebounds and averaged around 6 assists a game.

diu9leilomo
11-13-2014, 03:24 PM
why is everyone laughing? OP simply asking for opinions, and you guys sound likes hes ********. Davis is having a nice year and its true.

However, my answer is no. KG and TD prime was unstoppable, pure dominance

Shady66
11-13-2014, 03:28 PM
Can AD play point like KG did?

mjt20mik
11-13-2014, 03:29 PM
Have you watched prime KG and TD.

AD's game and stats are impressive, but TD and KG in their prime were just monsters. A 7/8 game sample size isn't great.

curtcocaine
11-13-2014, 03:29 PM
Why stop at TD and KG? He's the greatest. Michael Jordan couldn't hold his jock strap. Nuff said.

JEDean89
11-13-2014, 03:29 PM
How on earth can people compare the situation duncan was in to the one davis is in? jesus christ, put AD next to the Admiral at 21 and holly titting ballmonkeys they are back to backing right off the bat. Look, just because the next best player on the Pelicans is Tyreke Evans not David Robinson doesn't mean that Davis isn't the better player.

The individual single season PER record is held by Wilt at 31.8 or so. Jordan came within .04 of this record. Anthony Davis is at over 35, at 21. Wilt was 26, Jordan was in his prime. Davis is shattering the best of the best in their primes, in his 3rd year. now that he has an NBA body, nothing is gonna be able to stop him. He has the offensive game of a SF, and the defensive game of a C. He shoots 55% from the field and 77% from the stripe. His only weakness as of right now is that he can't shoot the 3. my guess is he will learn to shoot the 3.

curtcocaine
11-13-2014, 03:30 PM
And AD is a better singer than Michael Jackson.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2014, 03:30 PM
prime KG led the league in per and also led the league in rebounds and averaged around 6 assists a game.

KG led the league in points, rebounds, PER, win shares, WS/48, VORP, and was the best defender in the game in 03-04'

AD is going to be awesome, but the OP needs to chill out about his claim, when talking about 2 of the top 15-18 players to ever play, Duncan being top 6-8.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2014, 03:31 PM
How on earth can people compare the situation duncan was in to the one davis is in? jesus christ, put AD next to the Admiral at 21 and holly titting ballmonkeys they are back to backing right off the bat. Look, just because the next best player on the Pelicans is Tyreke Evans not David Robinson doesn't mean that Davis isn't the better player.

The individual single season PER record is held by Wilt at 31.8 or so. Jordan came within .04 of this record. Anthony Davis is at over 35, at 21. Wilt was 26, Jordan was in his prime. Davis is shattering the best of the best in their primes, in his 3rd year. now that he has an NBA body, nothing is gonna be able to stop him. He has the offensive game of a SF, and the defensive game of a C. He shoots 55% from the field and 77% from the stripe. His only weakness as of right now is that he can't shoot the 3. my guess is he will learn to shoot the 3.

the OP is saying AD is better right now, than Duncan and KG ever were...

M.I.A.
11-13-2014, 03:35 PM
They ought to put this thread on

"C'MON, MAN!"

LOL

SPURSFAN1
11-13-2014, 03:38 PM
They ought to put this thread on

"C'MON, MAN!"

LOL

:laugh2:

curtcocaine
11-13-2014, 03:46 PM
They ought to put this thread on

"C'MON, MAN!"

LOL
C'MON SON Ed Lover. Espn stole it......

M.I.A.
11-13-2014, 03:54 PM
C'MON SON Ed Lover. Espn stole it......

ESPN has been stealing a lot of things lately...

Arch Stanton
11-13-2014, 03:56 PM
As some have said it has been 7 games. I like Davis a lot and he is certainly proving to be a top star in the league but lets see how the season plays out. If he is that good he should be able to lead the 'Cans' to the playoffs.

tredigs
11-13-2014, 03:59 PM
I sincerely wonder if some of you realize/understand that there is a difference between counting stats like steals/blocks and actual defensive production as it relates to, you know... stopping the other team from scoring. He IS smarter than he was last season on that end, but he's still not even in the same LEAGUE as a 21 year old Duncan when it comes to his understanding on that end, let alone prime TD/KG. It's not exactly a coincidence that he still anchors one of the bottom defenses in the NBA, even with the defensive minded (and high end on that end) Asik as their starting center.

Duncan and KG were also brilliant passers. AD is great at not turning it over. He is also great at not taking any chances on that end. Which is fine, but you'll never be a great playmaker with that approach.

Amazing start to the year. And also, apparently, amazingly overrated start to the year.

Through 7 games Curry currently has a better VORP, Box+/- and WS/48 than any of Magic's peak seasons, therefore > Magic ever was, I guess?

M.I.A.
11-13-2014, 04:02 PM
I sincerely wonder if some of you realize/understand that there is a difference between counting stats like steals/blocks and actual defensive production as it relates to, you know... stopping the other team from scoring. He IS smarter than he was last season on that end, but he's still not even in the same LEAGUE as a 21 year old Duncan when it comes to his understanding on that end, let alone prime TD/KG. It's not exactly a coincidence that he still anchors one of the bottom defenses in the NBA, even with the defensive minded (and high end on that end) Asik as their starting center.

Duncan and KG were also brilliant passers. AD is great at not turning it over. He is also great at not taking any chances on that end. Which is fine, but you'll never be a great playmaker with that approach.

Amazing start to the year. And also, apparently, amazingly overrated start to the year.

Through 7 games Curry currently has a better VORP, Box+/- and WS/48 than any of Magic's peak seasons, therefore > Magic ever was, I guess?

Man, some of these LA guys on here are liable to jack you saying stuff like that... (lol)

SPURSFAN1
11-13-2014, 04:03 PM
I sincerely wonder if some of you realize/understand that there is a difference between counting stats like steals/blocks and actual defensive production as it relates to, you know... stopping the other team from scoring. He IS smarter than he was last season on that end, but he's still not even in the same LEAGUE as a 21 year old Duncan when it comes to his understanding on that end, let alone prime TD/KG. It's not exactly a coincidence that he still anchors one of the bottom defenses in the NBA, even with the defensive minded (and high end on that end) Asik as their starting center.

Duncan and KG were also brilliant passers. AD is great at not turning it over. He is also great at not taking any chances on that end. Which is fine, but you'll never be a great playmaker with that approach.

Amazing start to the year. And also, apparently, amazingly overrated start to the year.

Through 7 games Curry currently has a better VORP, Box+/- and WS/48 than any of Magic's peak seasons, therefore > Magic ever was, I guess?

You could start a whole new thread with that. lol

mightybosstone
11-13-2014, 04:03 PM
Davis hasn't become the elite defender that Duncan and KG were in their primes. Also, as many have already said, it's been only like two weeks, and he has zero postseason experience at this point. This is a pretty ridiculous statement no matter how you try to justify it.

Jamiecballer
11-13-2014, 04:04 PM
Tim Duncan 2003 NBA finals:

24.2 pts 17.0 rebounds 5.3 asts 5.3 blocks

Anthony Davis first 7 games this year:

24.9 pts 12.9 rebounds 2 asts 4.4 blocks
there you go, question asked and answered.

Goose17
11-13-2014, 04:32 PM
The individual single season PER record is held by Wilt at 31.8 or so. Jordan came within .04 of this record. Anthony Davis is at over 35, at 21. Wilt was 26, Jordan was in his prime. Davis is shattering the best of the best in their primes, in his 3rd year.

You're comparing the PER of an entire season to the PER of two weeks. Do you realise how flawed that argument is?

On top of that you're basing your opinion on one stat.

A stat that also doesn't take into account defense.

Vinny642
11-13-2014, 04:34 PM
I dont think Davis right now is better than either in their prime, but I think Davis at 21 is better than both when they were 21

Hawkeye15
11-13-2014, 04:40 PM
I remember when KG started the first 2 weeks of the season in 99-00', averaging 28/14.3/4/2.2/2

Luckily, social media wasn't around for us to fight over whether he was better than Kevin McHale at that point, age 23...

Hawkeye15
11-13-2014, 04:41 PM
I dont think Davis right now is better than either in their prime, but I think Davis at 21 is better than both when they were 21

I can agree with that, even though Duncan might have had the greatest rookie season in the modern era at age 21.

Vinny642
11-13-2014, 05:08 PM
I can agree with that, even though Duncan might have had the greatest rookie season in the modern era at age 21.

Very true, if Davis can mirror Duncan's career, I will be a happy dude.

TrueFan420
11-13-2014, 05:11 PM
How on earth can people compare the situation duncan was in to the one davis is in? jesus christ, put AD next to the Admiral at 21 and holly titting ballmonkeys they are back to backing right off the bat. Look, just because the next best player on the Pelicans is Tyreke Evans not David Robinson doesn't mean that Davis isn't the better player.

The individual single season PER record is held by Wilt at 31.8 or so. Jordan came within .04 of this record. Anthony Davis is at over 35, at 21. Wilt was 26, Jordan was in his prime. Davis is shattering the best of the best in their primes, in his 3rd year. now that he has an NBA body, nothing is gonna be able to stop him. He has the offensive game of a SF, and the defensive game of a C. He shoots 55% from the field and 77% from the stripe. His only weakness as of right now is that he can't shoot the 3. my guess is he will learn to shoot the 3.
It's also only 7 games

ILLUSIONIST^248
11-13-2014, 05:11 PM
Lol wow what a bold statement. A wrong one at that. Duncan is a legend, please don't disrespect him with dumb threads like this.

JEDean89
11-13-2014, 05:11 PM
You're comparing the PER of an entire season to the PER of two weeks. Do you realise how flawed that argument is?

On top of that you're basing your opinion on one stat.

A stat that also doesn't take into account defense.

you're right and i should have clarified that he will need to keep this up to get these nods. his production this year is close to his post allstar break production from last year though. my point is that if this is his ceiling, he's absolutely ridiculous from an individual standpoint.

TrueFan420
11-13-2014, 05:15 PM
You're comparing the PER of an entire season to the PER of two weeks. Do you realise how flawed that argument is?

On top of that you're basing your opinion on one stat.

A stat that also doesn't take into account defense.

Psh... Wilts defense couldn't touch AD's. Let's be real goose were not just looking at 21 year olds first 7 games being better than prime Duncan or KG he's freaking better than them combined. You would have to add Jordan, wilt, shaq, the dream and magic to them for it even be close to the talent this kid is and his stats prove him to be after just 7 games.

Crackadalic
11-13-2014, 05:20 PM
AD will be the 3rd best player this year but he isn't better than prime KG and Duncan. If he can sustain these numbers by seasons end I can say he is better at the same age

His defense is really damn good but not good enough. He isn't even better than Larry sanders on defense

YAALREADYKNO
11-13-2014, 05:32 PM
is this just at the age of 21 or are we talking about career wise?

Longhornfan1234
11-13-2014, 08:10 PM
is this just at the age of 21 or are we talking about career wise?



21 year old AD > prime KG and Duncan. We're not talking about team accomplishments. AD is just much better individual player.

YAALREADYKNO
11-13-2014, 08:18 PM
21 year old AD > prime KG and Duncan. We're not talking about team accomplishments. AD is just much better individual player.

Right now I see where you're coming from. Anthony Davis is beasting it up right now but well see if he can keep this up throughout the season. He's ballin right now tho

kingsdelez24
11-13-2014, 08:23 PM
In the wise words or Jalen Rose, if you asked me to say that AD right now is better than Duncan or KG ever were..


"NOT GON' BE ABLE TO DO IT!"

kdspurman
11-13-2014, 08:32 PM
21 year old AD > prime KG and Duncan. We're not talking about team accomplishments. AD is just much better individual player.

he's not quite as versatile as those guys were in their prime. whether it be the passing skills of them or in particular Duncan's post game. I think you should go back and re watch them in their primes. there's plenty of footage out there

Redrum187
11-13-2014, 08:40 PM
Better in what respect?

Greedy22
11-13-2014, 08:43 PM
He's already top 10 all time, a once in a lifetime talent.

zn23
11-13-2014, 08:48 PM
Definitely more talented. Hopefully he doesn't get injured.

Jeffy25
11-13-2014, 10:01 PM
Through the age of 21........

The following players had had a 25.0 PER

Shaq - 25.8 in 6295 minutes, with 27.4 WS
A Davis - 25.0 in 4465 minutes, with 18.2 WS
Jordan - 25.8 in 3144 minutes, with a 14.0 WS


Now, Davis still has this entire season to play still. But he is on his way.


Garnett didn't even have a 25.0 PER season until he was 26, and didn't have another one after being 31. But not just PER, these are two very different types of big men

Duncan had his first 25.0 PER season at 25, and again, a very different kind of player


So early with Davis, but the potential is clearly there.

Jeffy25
11-13-2014, 10:11 PM
I remember when KG started the first 2 weeks of the season in 99-00', averaging 28/14.3/4/2.2/2

Luckily, social media wasn't around for us to fight over whether he was better than Kevin McHale at that point, age 23...

And Garnett played the rest of the season at

22.5/11.6/5/1.4/1.5

Any reason to believe that Davis won't finish the season better than this? At age 21

Longhornfan1234
11-13-2014, 10:16 PM
he's not quite as versatile as those guys were in their prime. whether it be the passing skills of them or in particular Duncan's post game. I think you should go back and re watch them in their primes. there's plenty of footage out there

Not sure if serious. I was in high school during KG's and Duncan's prime. I've seen enough. Davis is more efficient, better low post scorer, and low post defender than KG.

Duncan had the luxury not anchoring the defense 'Til '03. Admiral anchored the D '99-'02. Duncan had the luxury having the best back court in 05-07(Manu &Parker). I only brought this up because I don't want to read your next response about team success.

21 year old Davis is more athletic and versatile offensive player. He's also better shot blocker and help defender. He's putting up advance stats Duncan could never dream of.

Longhornfan1234
11-13-2014, 10:18 PM
Through the age of 21........

The following players had had a 25.0 PER

Shaq - 25.8 in 6295 minutes, with 27.4 WS
A Davis - 25.0 in 4465 minutes, with 18.2 WS
Jordan - 25.8 in 3144 minutes, with a 14.0 WS


Now, Davis still has this entire season to play still. But he is on his way.


Garnett didn't even have a 25.0 PER season until he was 26, and didn't have another one after being 31. But not just PER, these are two very different types of big men

Duncan had his first 25.0 PER season at 25, and again, a very different kind of player


So early with Davis, but the potential is clearly there.
These advance statistics are very telling.

kobe4thewinbang
11-13-2014, 10:23 PM
And? I'm clueless as to how this is a bad thing.
Hopefully he keeps healthy and at this level.
Then once he gets on a good team or Pelicans improve, he will win a title with those skills.

kdspurman
11-13-2014, 10:27 PM
Not sure if serious. I was in high school during KG's and Duncan's prime. I've seen enough. Davis is more efficient, better low post scorer, and low post defender than KG.

Duncan had the luxury not anchoring the defense 'Til '03. Admiral anchored the D '99-'02. Duncan had the luxury having the best back court in 05-07(Manu &Parker). I only brought this up because I don't want to read your next response about team success.

21 year old Davis is more athletic and versatile offensive player. He's also better shot blocker and help defender. He's putting up advance stats Duncan could never dream of.

Team statistics aside, he's not there yet. Like many others have pointed out, we are only 7 games in.... You didn't even give the guy till the mid-way point.

And Duncan was anchoring the defense even while Robinson was there. (BTW, no mention of the fact that Davis is playing along side Asik? Who is also a great team defender in his own right?)

And if you want to say he had the best back court in 05-07, what about before that? You said AD this year is better than Duncan was in his prime. His prime, (which is tough to gauge cause of his consistency) would have been maybe 02 or 03?

You're entitled to your own opinion, but if you think Davis is more versatile than Timmy was in his prime, I honestly think you need to go and watch more prime Timmy, and not focus on what 38 year old Timmy is doing. They're 2 very different players. He came into the league with a very polished offensive game already, the learning curve was not like other guys who come into the league without understanding the basic fundamentals

IndyRealist
11-13-2014, 10:29 PM
25 points/ 13 rebounds/ 2 assists/ 2 steals/ 4 blocks/ 59 TS%/ 35 PER/ .308 WS/48.


He will most likely sustain this production. His Per and WS/48 will go down a tad.

Any one else agree?

How do you get "he will most likely sustain this production"? This is a classic small sample size error.

Jeffy25
11-13-2014, 10:31 PM
Team statistics aside, he's not there yet. Like many others have pointed out, we are only 7 games in.... You didn't even give the guy till the mid-way point.
The season that Davis put up last year, in his age 20 season, was a season that Duncan only put up five times in his career, and Garnett only put up four times.

This isn't just 7 games this season, Davis did this last year too.

Longhornfan1234
11-13-2014, 10:32 PM
How do you get "he will most likely sustain this production"? This is a classic small sample size error.

How did you get he will not sustain his current production? We can go from there.

kdspurman
11-13-2014, 10:33 PM
I sincerely wonder if some of you realize/understand that there is a difference between counting stats like steals/blocks and actual defensive production as it relates to, you know... stopping the other team from scoring. He IS smarter than he was last season on that end, but he's still not even in the same LEAGUE as a 21 year old Duncan when it comes to his understanding on that end, let alone prime TD/KG. It's not exactly a coincidence that he still anchors one of the bottom defenses in the NBA, even with the defensive minded (and high end on that end) Asik as their starting center.

Duncan and KG were also brilliant passers. AD is great at not turning it over. He is also great at not taking any chances on that end. Which is fine, but you'll never be a great playmaker with that approach.

Amazing start to the year. And also, apparently, amazingly overrated start to the year.

Through 7 games Curry currently has a better VORP, Box+/- and WS/48 than any of Magic's peak seasons, therefore > Magic ever was, I guess?

Solid post... Last line is a great comparison too. 7 games in is hardly enough of a sample side to make these kinds of threads.

kdspurman
11-13-2014, 10:40 PM
The season that Davis put up last year, in his age 20 season, was a season that Duncan only put up five times in his career, and Garnett only put up four times.

This isn't just 7 games this season, Davis did this last year too.

But that doesn't mean he's better than they were in their primes. Stats aside, KG & Duncan were more well rounded players. Offensively, as passers, etc... It's not a knock on AD, I just think it's not practical to say he's better than those guys were based off what he's done in 7 games.

And TD's playoff numbers are a completely different story, which of course AD will eventually get to.

Jeffy25
11-13-2014, 10:41 PM
But that doesn't mean he's better than they were in their primes. Stats aside, KG & Duncan were more well rounded players. Offensively, as passers, etc... It's not a knock on AD, I just think it's not practical to say he's better than those guys were based off what he's done in 7 games.

And TD's playoff numbers are a completely different story, which of course AD will eventually get to.

If he plays 95% the rest of the season as he has so far, then yes, he would be.

But last year, he posted a prime KG/TD caliber season, at only 20 years old.

Different players, but the value was clearly there.

IndyRealist
11-13-2014, 10:42 PM
How did you get he will not sustain his current production? We can go from there.

SMALL SAMPLE SIZE. Regression to the mean. If we extrapolate right now for the entire year, then Jrue Holiday will set an NBA record by not missing a single free throw, JJ Barea will have the highest offensive rating of any player at 119.1, and Tyler Zeller will be the most efficient scorer at 88% TS.

Assuming that what he's done in a handful of games is a suitable sample size gives statistics a bad name.

Jets012
11-13-2014, 10:59 PM
Am I the only one who thinks PER is inflated these days?

No Davis is not better than a prime KG or Duncan. I'd even take a 21 year old Duncan over him. Easier to build around with the overall defensive impact and superior passing game.

Davis defensive technique needs to get better. He's relying currently on just natural built and athleticism. Still a great defender but doesn't have the full awareness that Duncan had at that age.

And like people said, not near the passing ability either of this two had. KGs distribution kills AD even at age 21. Davis is good at not turning it over which is huge, but until he becomes a better playmaker it hurts to justify these types of statements

Vinny642
11-13-2014, 11:07 PM
I hate this 7 game argument tho.... the whole second half of last season he dominated.... he wasnt only good for 7 games

Vinny642
11-13-2014, 11:11 PM
Lets just ay I am glad we won that lottery

NYSpirit1
11-14-2014, 12:07 AM
What is with this garbage? People get so overanxious. Last year it was Paul George is Michael Jordan after 7 games.

TylerSL
11-14-2014, 12:34 AM
Stating that Davis is already better than Duncan and KG ever were is a shining example of why people hate this forum, it's ludicrous, asinine, and beyond irrational. It is disrespectful to both Duncan and KG who are IMO the number 1 and 3 PF's of all time respectively.

That's not to take anything away from Anthony Davis, he is really really good. His early career success can be compared to theirs as he is producing at or above the level they were producing when they were first coming into the league.

Anthony Davis:
1st year:13.5 pts, 8.2 rbs, 1.8 blks, 1.2 stls, .559 TS%, 21.7 PER, .159 WS/48
2nd year-20.8 pts, 10 rbs, 2.8 blks, 1.3 stls, 582 TS%, 26.5 PER, .212 WS/48
3rd year-24.9 pts, 12.9 rbs, 4.4 blks, 2.3 stls, .593 TS, 35.2 PER, .308 WS/48 through 7 games

Tim Duncan:
1st year-21.1 pts, 11.9 rbs, 2.5 blks, 0.7 stls, .577 TS%, 22.6 PER, .192 WS/48
2nd year-21.7 pts, 11.4 rbs, 2.5 blks, 0.9 stls, .541 TS%, 23.2 PER, .213 WS/48
3rd year-23.2 pts, 12.4 rbs, 2.2 blks, 0.9 stls, .555 TS%, 24.8 PER, .218 WS/48

Kevin Garnett:
1st year-10.4 pts, 6.3 rbs, 1.6 blks, 1.1 stls, .522 TS%, 15.8 PER, .092 WS/48
2nd year-17.0 pts, 8.0 rbs, 2.1 blks, 1.4 stls, .537 TS%, 18.2 PER, .116 WS/48
3rd year-18.5 pts, 9.6 rbs, 1.8 blks, 1.7 stls, .527 TS%, 20.4 PER, .143 WS/48

KG was the rawest player entering the league and while Davis's 3rd year has begun better than Duncan's, Timmy was superior in his first 2 seasons. Look Anthony Davis coming into the NBA was better than KG and comparable to Duncan but to say that after watching him for 2 weeks this year, he is already better than both of them ever were is just irrational.

SportsFanatic10
11-14-2014, 12:36 AM
when keeping it real goes wrong...

Hawkeye15
11-14-2014, 01:00 AM
And Garnett played the rest of the season at

22.5/11.6/5/1.4/1.5

Any reason to believe that Davis won't finish the season better than this? At age 21


sure there is reason. But, let's see what happens....

Though, I highly doubt AD ever touches KG's assist numbers, remember, he literally destroyed the 20/10/5 club.

Hawkeye15
11-14-2014, 01:03 AM
If he plays 95% the rest of the season as he has so far, then yes, he would be.

But last year, he posted a prime KG/TD caliber season, at only 20 years old.

Different players, but the value was clearly there.

I really like your posts, but here is why basketball is different than baseball, your expertise...

There is no way, and I mean none, to account for how dominant KG was on the defensive end in detail. It's why he is ahead of Dirk to me.

AD is having a great 7 game stretch, but you, as someone who understands stats, also understands regression...

He is probably going to end up a once in a decade player, but by no means should we even talk about him in those 2 guys level until he sustains it for YEARS....

SF8
11-14-2014, 01:05 AM
How about he leads them to some wins? Both KG and Duncan were actually winning more than Davis back at that age.

Right now those people who say Kevin Love put up empty stats in Minnesota can say same about Davis.

flea
11-14-2014, 01:08 AM
Some of the 15 year olds really need to get a grip. Duncan is still the big man I would take over all the others. He just won a title as the best player on his team, going through teams with 4 of the top 6 or 7 forwards in the game. Sure his team was great, in large part because of him, but they were no more talented than any team he faced.

Oh and this guy is in his late 30s. If you're too young I'll save you the effort of watching him waltz through the west by himself in 03: he was really good. I'm a Pels fan but this junk is absurd. I'd still take two or three bigs over Davis just for this season.

Jeffy25
11-14-2014, 01:11 AM
How about he leads them to some wins? Both KG and Duncan were actually winning more than Davis back at that age.

Right now those people who say Kevin Love put up empty stats in Minnesota can say same about Davis.

Poor logic, but either way, his team is 4-3 which includes a win over the defending champs

Jeffy25
11-14-2014, 01:13 AM
I really like your posts, but here is why basketball is different than baseball, your expertise...

There is no way, and I mean none, to account for how dominant KG was on the defensive end in detail. It's why he is ahead of Dirk to me.

AD is having a great 7 game stretch, but you, as someone who understands stats, also understands regression...

He is probably going to end up a once in a decade player, but by no means should we even talk about him in those 2 guys level until he sustains it for YEARS....

I completely agree

And I can't speak for the defensive side of things, I don't know how the NBA really keeps track of defensive values by bigs all that well, so I won't speak as an authority on something I don't understand.

But if Davis can play 95% as well as he has through 7 games for another 70 games this year, and you add what he did last year, he would be off to a start that neither KD or TD had.

SPURSFAN1
11-14-2014, 01:18 AM
I completely agree

And I can't speak for the defensive side of things, I don't know how the NBA really keeps track of defensive values by bigs all that well, so I won't speak as an authority on something I don't understand.

But if Davis can play 95% as well as he has through 7 games for another 70 games this year, and you add what he did last year, he would be off to a start that neither KD or TD had.

Surely you jest. Duncan got a Finals MVP in his second year.

Jeffy25
11-14-2014, 01:19 AM
Surely you jest. Duncan got a Finals MVP in his second year.

Maybe Anthony Davis should play with David Robinson

Gibby23
11-14-2014, 01:21 AM
Maybe Anthony Davis should play with David Robinson

Duncan was way better than Robinson when they won that ring. Lol

SPURSFAN1
11-14-2014, 01:23 AM
Yeah I still don't see it.

Jeffy25
11-14-2014, 01:25 AM
Duncan was way better than Robinson when they won that ring. Lol

He still needed robinson

Gibby23
11-14-2014, 01:27 AM
He still needed robinson
Without him he would have had more rebounds an points per game. Not his fault

flea
11-14-2014, 01:27 AM
Duncan is the best defender since Hakeem, no reasonable person will argue with that. Wallace and KG had nice peak seasons but both became role players when their athleticism went. Duncan has been far and away the most consistenr, and still anchors top defenses.

I think you could make the argument that Duncan is the most impact full defender of all time because of how much more important his role is in the zone defense era. Davis has quite a ways to go to get there. The only guy really in Duncan's realm on that end is Gasol these days.

SPURSFAN1
11-14-2014, 01:28 AM
Do people even double or triple team AD? What would his numbers look like against top competition like in the playoffs. What would his numbers look throughout a series. What would his numbers be in the WCF or finals vs great competition? Is he even clutch? Can he make plays down in the fourth quarter under pressure? Can he do this for years on end. Can he win multiple rings, maybe 5 or something. Can he make the playoffs every year of his career. This is a joke thread and anyone that debates this loses credibility.

SPURSFAN1
11-14-2014, 01:30 AM
I'm not even talking about 2003 Duncan where he took that team on his back literally to the ship. :worthy:

Hawkeye15
11-14-2014, 01:45 AM
Surely you jest. Duncan got a Finals MVP in his second year.

well, AD doesn't get a prime Admiral, and the rest of the crew.

Stop with your bs team accomplishments, and instead point out WHY your Spurs player of choice should be mentioned...

SPURSFAN1
11-14-2014, 01:49 AM
well, AD doesn't get a prime Admiral, and the rest of the crew.

Stop with your bs team accomplishments, and instead point out WHY your Spurs player of choice should be mentioned...

I guess you forgot about 2003. Explain that one bud.

SPURSFAN1
11-14-2014, 01:52 AM
The best player in this league should make the playoffs or do we have another inflated stat padder on a bad team a la kevin love. I'm assuming he is the best player in this league since you assume he is better than prime Duncan right?

Jarvo
11-14-2014, 03:20 AM
I like AD, But lets pump the breaks for now on him. He's been getting alot of hype (well deserved) but let's not say he's better than Duncan or KG in their prime and this season is too early to say something like that anyway even though he has been playing damn well so far.

OaklandsFinest
11-14-2014, 03:44 AM
People forget exactly how GREAT KG was.. He was the best PF ever if you ask me, Duncan is a center, but enough of that argument. No AD is not better than them, at least now.. Watch some KG/ Minnesota highlights. OP must be like 17 or something. KG in his prime played with the intensity of a mother bear defending her cubs against a pack of wolves.

Jeffy25
11-14-2014, 03:53 AM
I guess you forgot about 2003. Explain that one bud.

TD was 26....?

Did you forget the conversation?

SPURSFAN1
11-14-2014, 03:59 AM
TD was 26....?

Did you forget the conversation?

"I'm saying 21 year old AD > prime KG and Duncan. No team accomplishments considered. We're judging individual talent." -OP

What are you talking about? Do you agree with OPs statement? :laugh2:

Jeffy25
11-14-2014, 04:00 AM
"I'm saying 21 year old AD > prime KG and Duncan. No team accomplishments considered. We're judging individual talent." -OP

What are you talking about? Do you agree with OPs statement? :laugh2:

I was talking about the statement that AD at 21 is off to a better start than KG and TD were off to at this age

SPURSFAN1
11-14-2014, 04:07 AM
I was talking about the statement that AD at 21 is off to a better start than KG and TD were off to at this age

"I completely agree

And I can't speak for the defensive side of things, I don't know how the NBA really keeps track of defensive values by bigs all that well, so I won't speak as an authority on something I don't understand.

But if Davis can play 95% as well as he has through 7 games for another 70 games this year, and you add what he did last year, he would be off to a start that neither KD or TD had."-jeff

We are talking about starting their careers in the NBA not their respective ages here. Duncan was a champion in his second year. I'm inclined to say Duncan had a way better start than AD.

PurpleJesus
11-14-2014, 04:11 AM
"I completely agree

And I can't speak for the defensive side of things, I don't know how the NBA really keeps track of defensive values by bigs all that well, so I won't speak as an authority on something I don't understand.

But if Davis can play 95% as well as he has through 7 games for another 70 games this year, and you add what he did last year, he would be off to a start that neither KD or TD had."-jeff

We are talking about starting their careers in the NBA not their respective ages here. Duncan was a champion in his second year. I'm inclined to say Duncan had a way better start than AD.

Has Jarvis Varnado had a better start to his career than AD also? Varnado won a ring his rookie season. Did he have a better start to his career than Duncan?

SPURSFAN1
11-14-2014, 04:13 AM
Has Jarvis Varnado had a better start to his career than AD also? Varnado won a ring his rookie season. Did he have a better start to his career than Duncan?

:laugh: Trying real hard I see.

PurpleJesus
11-14-2014, 04:17 AM
:laugh: Trying real hard I see.

can you answer the question?

SPURSFAN1
11-14-2014, 04:24 AM
can you answer the question?

Why the **** should I? Are we really going to talk about some scrub like he means chit in here?
Trolling in here has surely gone up. Atleast try a little harder next time.

PurpleJesus
11-14-2014, 04:28 AM
Why the **** should I? Are we really going to talk about some scrub like he means chit in here?
Trolling in here has surely gone up. Atleast try a little harder next time.

You said Duncan had a better start to his career than AD because he won a championship year 2. Heres a little secret for you. Basketball is a team game.

Everytime someone disagrees with you, you don't have to scream TROLL!!!

PurpleJesus
11-14-2014, 04:33 AM
If you dont want me to us Varnando, how about Ginobli? Ginolili won a title in his rookie year? Did he have a better start to his career than Duncan?

SPURSFAN1
11-14-2014, 04:34 AM
You said Duncan had a better start to his career than AD because he won a championship year 2. Heres a little secret for you. Basketball is a team game.

Everytime someone disagrees with you, you don't have to scream TROLL!!!

Let me fix that for you. Basketball is a team game where 1 single player can have a huge impact on the outcome depending on who that player is. Learn that chit troll.

Jeffy25
11-14-2014, 04:35 AM
"I completely agree

And I can't speak for the defensive side of things, I don't know how the NBA really keeps track of defensive values by bigs all that well, so I won't speak as an authority on something I don't understand.

But if Davis can play 95% as well as he has through 7 games for another 70 games this year, and you add what he did last year, he would be off to a start that neither KD or TD had."-jeff

We are talking about starting their careers in the NBA not their respective ages here. Duncan was a champion in his second year. I'm inclined to say Duncan had a way better start than AD.

Except this is a team game. If Anthony Davis had Tim Duncan's team his second year in the NBA, he would probably have a ring too.

Through the age of 21, AD is off to a better start than either KG or TD. He hasn't reached his peak yet, so there is no point in saying he is better than either, because he can't be yet.

PurpleJesus
11-14-2014, 04:36 AM
Let me fix that for you. Basketball is a team game where 1 single player can have a huge impact on the outcome depending on who that player is. Learn that chit troll.



Jesus Christ. Not everyone is a troll. You clearly cant have a discussion without getting upset and thinking everyone is trying to troll you.

Im out of this conversation.

SPURSFAN1
11-14-2014, 04:42 AM
Except this is a team game. If Anthony Davis had Tim Duncan's team his second year in the NBA, he would probably have a ring too.

Through the age of 21, AD is off to a better start than either KG or TD. He hasn't reached his peak yet, so there is no point in saying he is better than either, because he can't be yet.

I doubt he could. He hasn't even shown anything his second year in the league that would indicate he could lead a team even with Robinson. He did post some weak stats just above average player. I doubt they even seed high. First round exit more likely.

jerellh528
11-14-2014, 04:59 AM
Davis is NOT better than prime Duncan or kg obviously . He is however, better than both at the same age and has potential to not only be better than them, but a top 5 player in nba history if his career unfolds almost perfectly.

Jeffy25
11-14-2014, 05:03 AM
I doubt he could. He hasn't even shown anything his second year in the league that would indicate he could lead a team even with Robinson. He did post some weak stats just above average player. I doubt they even seed high. First round exit more likely.

In the year that Duncan won his first ring (98-99)

Duncan posted 21.7 PPG, 11.4 RPG, 2.4 APG, 2.5 BLK, 0.9 SPG with 23.2 PER, .541 TS%, and 8.7 WS (in 50 games)

But AD couldn't do what Duncan did with this team?

Robinson 24.9 PER
Rose 19.7 PER
Daniels 16.1 PER

Duncan had his help, and he was a key contributor.

Let's compare this to what Davis did last year:

20.8 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 1.6 APG, 2.8 BLK, 1.3 SPG with 26.5 PER, .582 TS%, and 10.4 WS (in 67 games)

I don't know how different the Spurs would have been in 99 if they had a 20 year old Anthony Davis than a 22 year old Duncan. It would at least be close. With Robinson, Rose, Daniels, Johnson on his team in that year, they would be prepared for a very deep run obviously.

SPURSFAN1
11-14-2014, 05:28 AM
In the year that Duncan won his first ring (98-99)

Duncan posted 21.7 PPG, 11.4 RPG, 2.4 APG, 2.5 BLK, 0.9 SPG with 23.2 PER, .541 TS%, and 8.7 WS (in 50 games)

But AD couldn't do what Duncan did with this team?

Robinson 24.9 PER
Rose 19.7 PER
Daniels 16.1 PER

Duncan had his help, and he was a key contributor.

Let's compare this to what Davis did last year:

20.8 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 1.6 APG, 2.8 BLK, 1.3 SPG with 26.5 PER, .582 TS%, and 10.4 WS (in 67 games)

I don't know how different the Spurs would have been in 99 if they had a 20 year old Anthony Davis than a 22 year old Duncan. It would at least be close. With Robinson, Rose, Daniels, Johnson on his team in that year, they would be prepared for a very deep run obviously.

Did you even look at Duncan's playoff numbers?

23.2 ppg 11.5 rpg 3 assist 1 steal 2.5 blocks a game while his team averaged 93 ppg. LOW scoring affairs.
0.243WS/48 in the PLAYOFFS VS GREAT TEAMS


AD was posting a .212WS/48 in the REGULAR SEASON.

Many players actually lose their efficiency in the playoffs. AD would be no Tim Duncan.
The Spurs with anthony davis instead of Duncan would be a first round exit at best.

I'm going to bed now. By the end of the year, the "best player in the league" would not have even made the playoffs AGAIN. lol.

Jeffy25
11-14-2014, 05:30 AM
Did you even look at Duncan's playoff numbers?

23.2 ppg 11.5 rpg 3 assist 1 steal 2.5 blocks a game while his team averaged 93 ppg. LOW scoring affairs.
0.243WS/48 in the PLAYOFFS VS GREAT TEAMS


AD was posting a .212WS/48 in the REGULAR SEASON.

Many players actually lose their efficiency in the playoffs. AD would be no Tim Duncan.
The Spurs with anthony davis instead of Duncan would be a first round exit at best.

I'm going to bed now. By the end of the year, the "best player in the league" would not have even made the playoffs AGAIN. lol.

You can't compare playoff numbers, because Davis wasn't given the opportunity.


Davis can't help that he doesn't have a Manu, Parker, D-Rob, Leonard to play with. He is resurrecting that team currently.

M.I.A.
11-14-2014, 09:44 AM
You guys are still arguing about this?

C'MON MAN!!!

kdspurman
11-14-2014, 10:30 AM
There is more to comparing players than just stats IMO. You can't just say player A has similar stats to player B, therefore he would have equal the amount of success if put in the same position. There are other intangibles that aren't factored in.

valade16
11-14-2014, 10:40 AM
Anthony Davis having a higher PER is no more an indication that he is better than Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett than Brook Lopez and DeMarcus Cousins having higher PERsÖ

Their first years Tim Duncan was clearly superior to Anthony Davis. Their second season, while Davis and Duncan had similar stats the edge should rightfully go to Tim Duncan.

AD had a 26.5 PER to Duncan's 23.2 however Duncan and Davis had virtually identical WS/48 (.213 to .212) and Duncan led the league in Defensive Win Shares. If you put stock in VORP Davis' was 3.4 and Duncan's was 5.3.

The idea that Davis has had a demonstrably better statistical start to his career than Duncan is a fallacy based on a 7 game sample size. If he keeps this pace up for any reasonable amount of time we can begin to speculate.

But at the moment, Duncan was at least Davis' statistical equal through this point in their careers.

YAALREADYKNO
11-14-2014, 10:46 AM
There is more to comparing players than just stats IMO. You can't just say player A has similar stats to player B, therefore he would have equal the amount of success if put in the same position. There are other intangibles that aren't factored in.

Very Very True

jerellh528
11-14-2014, 10:46 AM
The only knock I have on Duncan, and it's a small one, is he's almost always played 6th man minutes and never fully carried a team. He's always been a big part of a equally balanced, well coached, super team. Can't blame him though, he has the best coach of all time and always has him in position to do his best.

YAALREADYKNO
11-14-2014, 10:48 AM
It's still early in the season tho. The spurs are the 8th seed right now and the Clippers wont even make the playoffs if it started today. Lets wait 20-30 games in and see where he's at

M.I.A.
11-14-2014, 10:53 AM
The only knock I have on Duncan, and it's a small one, is he's almost always played 6th man minutes and never fully carried a team. He's always been a big part of a equally balanced, well coached, super team. Can't blame him though, he has the best coach of all time and always has him in position to do his best.

That makes Duncan not only a great athlete but a wise one as well. I'm not going to fault him for that.

kdspurman
11-14-2014, 10:56 AM
The only knock I have on Duncan, and it's a small one, is he's almost always played 6th man minutes and never fully carried a team. He's always been a big part of a equally balanced, well coached, super team. Can't blame him though, he has the best coach of all time and always has him in position to do his best.

I mean he played 40mpg or close to it his first 6 years. But Pop has said, ever since Tim tore his meniscus in 2000, he was paranoid about overplaying him. Can't really blame him. But yea, he definitely carried that team his first 6-7 years. There were a couple years in there had had some talent, like the first couple years in the league, but he was that team for the early 2000's. He carried them to that title in 03. There was no super team at all in his 2nd title run. He just played at a ridiculous level

D-Leethal
11-14-2014, 11:00 AM
In the year that Duncan won his first ring (98-99)

Duncan posted 21.7 PPG, 11.4 RPG, 2.4 APG, 2.5 BLK, 0.9 SPG with 23.2 PER, .541 TS%, and 8.7 WS (in 50 games)

But AD couldn't do what Duncan did with this team?

Robinson 24.9 PER
Rose 19.7 PER
Daniels 16.1 PER

Duncan had his help, and he was a key contributor.

Let's compare this to what Davis did last year:

20.8 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 1.6 APG, 2.8 BLK, 1.3 SPG with 26.5 PER, .582 TS%, and 10.4 WS (in 67 games)

I don't know how different the Spurs would have been in 99 if they had a 20 year old Anthony Davis than a 22 year old Duncan. It would at least be close. With Robinson, Rose, Daniels, Johnson on his team in that year, they would be prepared for a very deep run obviously.

Comparing statlines does nothing to suggest one would win more than the other. Your impact on a basketball game goes way beyond your statline and a formula someone made up to try and account for "win shares".

D-Leethal
11-14-2014, 11:01 AM
I think this thread is a prime example of "when keepin' it real goes wrong" and I think AD has first ballot HOFer written all over him.

ghettosean
11-14-2014, 11:03 AM
FYI... I'm not saying AD is better than them career wise. He's just better than them individually.

Of course he is KG and Duncan are close to 40 years old... LOL.

Goose17
11-14-2014, 11:18 AM
Is this seriously still being discussed?

Proclaiming Davis > Duncan is just as bad as proclaiming Lebron > Jordan.

Fools.


Duncan is the best PF to play the game, you're proclaiming Davis the new King of Power Forwards due to 7/8 games. How can any sane basketball fan do that?

Brandan Wright currently has a PER of 28.39 which is higher than any PER Jordan ever had in a single season. So... Brandan Wright > Jordan????


Come on PSD, you're better than this.

ghettosean
11-14-2014, 11:20 AM
In the year that Duncan won his first ring (98-99)

Duncan posted 21.7 PPG, 11.4 RPG, 2.4 APG, 2.5 BLK, 0.9 SPG with 23.2 PER, .541 TS%, and 8.7 WS (in 50 games)

But AD couldn't do what Duncan did with this team?

Robinson 24.9 PER
Rose 19.7 PER
Daniels 16.1 PER

Duncan had his help, and he was a key contributor.

Let's compare this to what Davis did last year:

20.8 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 1.6 APG, 2.8 BLK, 1.3 SPG with 26.5 PER, .582 TS%, and 10.4 WS (in 67 games)

I don't know how different the Spurs would have been in 99 if they had a 20 year old Anthony Davis than a 22 year old Duncan. It would at least be close. With Robinson, Rose, Daniels, Johnson on his team in that year, they would be prepared for a very deep run obviously.

I can't believe he got that many rebounds/points with another rebounding machine beside him to steal them away. Lebron with Bosh is a prime example of when playing with someone like that your stats get seriously affected (even Loves stats are getting affected on that squad a little bit REB and PTS) but it's kind of a testament of how good Duncan was at that time with amazing stats playing beside a HOF player and rebounding machine like Robinson. Even to this day he's keeping a pretty good stat line when he's close to 39 and he's averaging 15 points, 11.5 rebounds and 2.5 assists.

I honestly don't think it would be as close as you think it would be inserting Davis into that line up as far as his contributions to the team statistically.

YAALREADYKNO
11-14-2014, 11:20 AM
The only knock I have on Duncan, and it's a small one, is he's almost always played 6th man minutes and never fully carried a team. He's always been a big part of a equally balanced, well coached, super team. Can't blame him though, he has the best coach of all time and always has him in position to do his best.

He used that to his full advantage tho

ghettosean
11-14-2014, 11:21 AM
Is this seriously still being discussed?

Proclaiming Davis > Duncan is just as bad as proclaiming Lebron > Jordan.

Fools.


Duncan is the best PF to play the game, you're proclaiming Davis the new King of Power Forwards due to 7/8 games. How can any sane basketball fan do that?

Brandan Wright currently has a PER of 28.39 which is higher than any PER Jordan ever had in a single season. So... Brandan Wright > Jordan????


Come on PSD, you're better than this.


:laugh:

You speak the truth though!

ghettosean
11-14-2014, 11:24 AM
There is more to comparing players than just stats IMO. You can't just say player A has similar stats to player B, therefore he would have equal the amount of success if put in the same position. There are other intangibles that aren't factored in.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Best post I've seen in a while on PSD!

D-Leethal
11-14-2014, 11:52 AM
Seriously. Let me guess you put last years Kevin Love's 26-14 on the '99 Spurs they win the title too?

Longhornfan1234
11-14-2014, 11:56 AM
Seriously. Let me guess you put last years Kevin Love's 26-14 on the '99 Spurs they win the title too?

No...because Love isn't two player like Davis. Nice try though. Davis on '99 team would have won a championship...easily.

Hawkeye15
11-14-2014, 11:57 AM
I guess you forgot about 2003. Explain that one bud.

what about it? Duncan's peak year, he still had vets around him, and a great defense.

What is it with you? Why do you credit each and every individual Spur in any thread pertaining to them, but not as a group? Meaning, your team has been stacked for 20 years. You give way too much credit to individuals on your team. Duncan absolutely beasted in the 2003 playoffs. But it wasn't the best playoff run I have seen from a player.

kdspurman
11-14-2014, 03:04 PM
Comparing statlines does nothing to suggest one would win more than the other. Your impact on a basketball game goes way beyond your statline and a formula someone made up to try and account for "win shares".

Yep. I was trying to convey the same message...

Oefarmy2005
11-14-2014, 04:50 PM
In my opinion, you have to look at the times as well, not to mention that the PF/C position was WAY deeper and way better defensively when KG and Duncan played. I can elaborate by saying Duncan and KG played against guys like prime Shaq, Nowitzki, Malone, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Abdur-Rahim, baby O'neal, Pau, e.t.c. He is the next great PF, no doubt in my mind and he is better than Griffin/Love/LMA, but I need to see sustained production and better team play from him before I crown him the best PF of all time.

FlashBolt
11-14-2014, 04:51 PM
1) 7 games.
2) 7 games.
99) 7 games.

Anthony may be GOAT by these 7 games standards.

Oefarmy2005
11-14-2014, 05:05 PM
1) 7 games.
2) 7 games.
99) 7 games.

Anthony may be GOAT by these 7 games standards.

Yep and add to that the fact that the skill he is facing at that position daily is nowhere near where it was back when KG/Duncan were in their 3 seasons or their prime. I mean, when you best center is Dwight and your best PFs are Love/Griffin, the competition isn't great by any stretch of the imagination.

valade16
11-14-2014, 05:51 PM
what about it? Duncan's peak year, he still had vets around him, and a great defense.

What is it with you? Why do you credit each and every individual Spur in any thread pertaining to them, but not as a group? Meaning, your team has been stacked for 20 years. You give way too much credit to individuals on your team. Duncan absolutely beasted in the 2003 playoffs. But it wasn't the best playoff run I have seen from a player.

20 year old Tony Parker. Rookie Manu. 37 yr Old D-Rob. Duncan certainly had help (as all champions do) but I think his help that seaosn is being overstated because of their names as opposed to their production that season.

Hawkeye15
11-14-2014, 05:58 PM
20 year old Tony Parker. Rookie Manu. 37 yr Old D-Rob. Duncan certainly had help (as all champions do) but I think his help that seaosn is being overstated because of their names as opposed to their production that season.

Yep, I alluded to that being his peak year basically, or, easily the most work he had to do in order to have playoff success.

The roster was basically just a bunch of guys who filled a role, and Duncan as the superstar that specific year. I am telling the poster that he routinely brushes aside the Spurs roster strength throughout the years when he is arguing about an individual Spur.

slashsnake
11-15-2014, 04:51 PM
In the year that Duncan won his first ring (98-99)

Duncan posted 21.7 PPG, 11.4 RPG, 2.4 APG, 2.5 BLK, 0.9 SPG with 23.2 PER, .541 TS%, and 8.7 WS (in 50 games)

But AD couldn't do what Duncan did with this team?

Robinson 24.9 PER
Rose 19.7 PER
Daniels 16.1 PER

Duncan had his help, and he was a key contributor.

Let's compare this to what Davis did last year:

20.8 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 1.6 APG, 2.8 BLK, 1.3 SPG with 26.5 PER, .582 TS%, and 10.4 WS (in 67 games)

I don't know how different the Spurs would have been in 99 if they had a 20 year old Anthony Davis than a 22 year old Duncan. It would at least be close. With Robinson, Rose, Daniels, Johnson on his team in that year, they would be prepared for a very deep run obviously.

Ok lets come back to reality just a second here.

Two words... Chris Bosh.

23 and 10 became 17 and 7 in a hurry when he got on a stacked team didn't it.

23 and 13 for Garnett became 18 and 9 the instant he went to Boston. And 25 a game became 17 a game in a hurry for Allen.

Jordan even went from a 35 a game guy on a non-title team to a 30 a game guy on a title caliber team.

You see it all the time. Guy like Arron Afflalo goes to a crappy Magic team and starts putting up nearly 20 a game. Nick Young isn't a 20 a game guy with a contender.

The second Shaq left, Kobe's 25 a game became 32 a game.

Kareem? Numbers dropped the second he went to LA (30-15 to 26-13)


I really like Anthony Davis a lot but there's a huge difference from being great on a bad team and starting out your 3rd year with 25 and 12 and leading a team to an NBA championship in your 2nd year and putting up 27 and 14 in the finals.

So no, until Davis leads a team to the finals and dominates with great teammates in huge situations, he isn't better. You can't just pick up a guy and drop him in a completely different situation and expect any success. You can't expect him to just go up against a team led by a prime Shaq inside and drop 29-11 in a series.

IDunknown
11-15-2014, 05:49 PM
They ought to put this thread on

"C'MON, MAN!"

LOL


C'MON SON Ed Lover. Espn stole it......

true

FlashBolt
11-15-2014, 06:41 PM
Ok lets come back to reality just a second here.

Two words... Chris Bosh.

23 and 10 became 17 and 7 in a hurry when he got on a stacked team didn't it.

23 and 13 for Garnett became 18 and 9 the instant he went to Boston. And 25 a game became 17 a game in a hurry for Allen.

Jordan even went from a 35 a game guy on a non-title team to a 30 a game guy on a title caliber team.

You see it all the time. Guy like Arron Afflalo goes to a crappy Magic team and starts putting up nearly 20 a game. Nick Young isn't a 20 a game guy with a contender.

The second Shaq left, Kobe's 25 a game became 32 a game.

Kareem? Numbers dropped the second he went to LA (30-15 to 26-13)


I really like Anthony Davis a lot but there's a huge difference from being great on a bad team and starting out your 3rd year with 25 and 12 and leading a team to an NBA championship in your 2nd year and putting up 27 and 14 in the finals.

So no, until Davis leads a team to the finals and dominates with great teammates in huge situations, he isn't better. You can't just pick up a guy and drop him in a completely different situation and expect any success. You can't expect him to just go up against a team led by a prime Shaq inside and drop 29-11 in a series.

Yeah, this is my stand on it as well. Another great example would be how All-Star games are incredibly diluted. That just shows that when you pack a good team together, the odds of one player achieving better stats is pretty tough to do. KD has done it. LeBron has done it. But asides from those two, you'd be looking for a long time to find a player who hasn't. Even with LeBron, some argue that his 2009-2010 season was his best statistically. We haven't seen KD long enough by himself to do it but when Westbrook was out, wasn't he going bananas? Anthony Davis is just leading a team with no expectations. He's playing all out but let's put him alongside KD/Westbrook and see how his stats translate. He needs to elevate his team to the playoffs before we give him a label.

SanAntonioSpurs23
11-15-2014, 06:56 PM
OP must really not like Duncan.

:laugh: I think Davis is a great player and he's going to be a monster for a very long time, but I doubt a lot of you watched Tim Duncan his first few years in the league. Duncan had to play against better competition as far as big men go. Who is Davis major competition? Cousins?

FlashBolt
11-15-2014, 07:18 PM
OP must really not like Duncan.

:laugh: I think Davis is a great player and he's going to be a monster for a very long time, but I doubt a lot of you watched Tim Duncan his first few years in the league. Duncan had to play against better competition as far as big men go. Who is Davis major competition? Cousins?

Dude.. the game today isn't built to make a frontcourt look dominant more-so as a backcourt. The game has changed. I'm more than sure there are centers/PF's who have the body/skill to play in the old days but the game today isn't dependent on having one. You don't think Davis would've been dominant in Tim's time? I mean, let's be honest. Tim is great but much of his perceived dominance is via a great coach/team. People look at the Spurs and think of a team with a great coach who always gets the best out of his team. It's never one player who spikes the Spurs. Duncan is a top 10 and greatest PF ever but to say Duncan had to play against better competition, etc. Well, how do you know Duncan would succeed in a dominant wing position generation?

ghettosean
11-15-2014, 07:28 PM
OP must really not like Duncan.

:laugh: I think Davis is a great player and he's going to be a monster for a very long time, but I doubt a lot of you watched Tim Duncan his first few years in the league. Duncan had to play against better competition as far as big men go. Who is Davis major competition? Cousins?

Dude.. the game today isn't built to make a frontcourt look dominant more-so as a backcourt. The game has changed. I'm more than sure there are centers/PF's who have the body/skill to play in the old days but the game today isn't dependent on having one. You don't think Davis would've been dominant in Tim's time? I mean, let's be honest. Tim is great but much of his perceived dominance is via a great coach/team. People look at the Spurs and think of a team with a great coach who always gets the best out of his team. It's never one player who spikes the Spurs. Duncan is a top 10 and greatest PF ever but to say Duncan had to play against better competition, etc. Well, how do you know Duncan would succeed in a dominant wing position generation?

He just won a ring at 38 and was a HUGE reason they won... Does that help?

kdspurman
11-15-2014, 07:56 PM
Dude.. the game today isn't built to make a frontcourt look dominant more-so as a backcourt. The game has changed. I'm more than sure there are centers/PF's who have the body/skill to play in the old days but the game today isn't dependent on having one. You don't think Davis would've been dominant in Tim's time? I mean, let's be honest. Tim is great but much of his perceived dominance is via a great coach/team. People look at the Spurs and think of a team with a great coach who always gets the best out of his team. It's never one player who spikes the Spurs. Duncan is a top 10 and greatest PF ever but to say Duncan had to play against better competition, etc. Well, how do you know Duncan would succeed in a dominant wing position generation?

I personally am not sure if Davis's offensive game is polished enough just yet to think he would have been dominant in the early 2000's. Defensively, I think his impact would still be there. Though with different competition it's tough to tell. I think he would have been fine on that end though

AIRMAR72
11-15-2014, 10:06 PM
FYI... I'm not saying AD is better than them career wise. He's just better than them individually. CORRECT, Anthony Davis has superior ATHLETICISM and skills compare to Duncan better IQ and strength compare to KG and Timmy at age 21 more WILL power than both KG and TD

True Sports Fan
11-15-2014, 10:23 PM
OP probably didn't see KG or Duncan in their primes.

FlashBolt
11-16-2014, 01:05 AM
He just won a ring at 38 and was a HUGE reason they won... Does that help?

Oh, right. Because playing under 30 minutes while missing games due to rest is not something Duncan did. Or not having a dominant all around supporting cast as well? People often overlook Spurs greatness. It is not greatly dependent on a single player. Pop knows this and that is why he values international players over USA-bred players because international players are more team-oriented and know how to play team ball efficiently. I'm not saying Duncan didn't have an intricate part on winning the ring but it was an entire collective effort of team dominance. I'm stating whether or not Duncan would have been as dominant playing under these rules that really, force you to become a pick-and-roll player more-so than the traditional dominant under the rim presence. I'm sure he'd still be the best PF but to say Duncan faced better players? I mean, how good would Shaq be if a coach makes him completely irrelevant? Which is what coaches are doing these days by playing the three pointer more than ever. These days, coaches want a center/PF who can rebound, defend, and pass the ball. The need for a Shaq/Wilt has been traded for the art of shooting

I personally am not sure if Davis's offensive game is polished enough just yet to think he would have been dominant in the early 2000's. Defensively, I think his impact would still be there. Though with different competition it's tough to tell. I think he would have been fine on that end though


We haven't seen Davis's offensive game just yet but again, how old is this guy? He would strive under any generation because he's a great player. We're seeing that from him and god damn, I just keep looking at his age. The dude is age 21 and is in talks of being arguably the third best player in NBA... In a time in which LeBron/KD are understandably the 1a/1b. Again, his defense is overrated, his offense is okay, but we can see his greatness. Let's scratch this year (averaging 25 points on 56%, 12 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 4 blocks, and most impressive of them all, 1.3 TOV/1.3 PF.. at 36 PER!) Even last year, he was a dominating force at age 20. Nothing else can be said. This guy has a decade of dominance ahead of him and he's already near the top of the elites. The only thing he has to do is take them to the playoffs. Not expecting the Pelicans to become contenders until 2-3 years but if he can at least make an imprint, there is no reason why he shouldn't be a top five player.

Regarding what the OP is saying. There is some truth to it. It's just a matter if he can keep this up for an entire year. By God, if he can keep this up for a year or at least maintain it at a minimal drop, AD may be the best player in the NBA. I cannot overlook those numbers over an entire span of 82 games. Just can't. Even over Duncan/KG, tbh. He's athletic, smart, learns quick, and has an incredible wingspan. Not to mention that he's put on more pounds this summer. Just sheer dominance.

SoCal Bob
11-16-2014, 04:05 AM
Nothing wrong with being the 3rd best player in the NBA at 21 years old.

Ty Fast
11-16-2014, 04:17 AM
AD gets hurt a lot

ewing
11-16-2014, 09:04 AM
i better then Paul George?

ewing
11-16-2014, 09:35 AM
CORRECT, Anthony Davis has superior ATHLETICISM and skills compare to Duncan better IQ and strength compare to KG and Timmy at age 21 more WILL power than both KG and TD


More "will power" :confused:

What, is he turning down the ***** like AC Green?

AIRMAR72
11-16-2014, 11:07 AM
duncan was way better than robinson when they won that ring. Lol negative

likemystylez
11-16-2014, 12:25 PM
Better than Duncan? You're declaring Davis the greatest PF to play the game after one good season and like 7 great games... are you serious?

LOL- he hasnt even been in the playoffs, lol and that kinda suggests that hes playing a lot of garbage time

Trwood12
11-16-2014, 01:02 PM
How did you get he will not sustain his current production? We can go from there.
Remember "Linsanity"?

alexander_37
11-16-2014, 11:05 PM
Ok lets come back to reality just a second here.

Two words... Chris Bosh.

23 and 10 became 17 and 7 in a hurry when he got on a stacked team didn't it.

23 and 13 for Garnett became 18 and 9 the instant he went to Boston. And 25 a game became 17 a game in a hurry for Allen.

Jordan even went from a 35 a game guy on a non-title team to a 30 a game guy on a title caliber team.

You see it all the time. Guy like Arron Afflalo goes to a crappy Magic team and starts putting up nearly 20 a game. Nick Young isn't a 20 a game guy with a contender.

The second Shaq left, Kobe's 25 a game became 32 a game.

Kareem? Numbers dropped the second he went to LA (30-15 to 26-13)


I really like Anthony Davis a lot but there's a huge difference from being great on a bad team and starting out your 3rd year with 25 and 12 and leading a team to an NBA championship in your 2nd year and putting up 27 and 14 in the finals.

So no, until Davis leads a team to the finals and dominates with great teammates in huge situations, he isn't better. You can't just pick up a guy and drop him in a completely different situation and expect any success. You can't expect him to just go up against a team led by a prime Shaq inside and drop 29-11 in a series.

Ding ding we have a rational thought. Actually a spot on one at that.

Let's see what Davis does on a good team or lets seem him dominate in a Hakeem like fashion and drop 30-40+ per game in a playoff series against one of the greatest post defender ever.

THEN he may be at that top level.

Jeffy25
11-17-2014, 02:47 AM
Ok lets come back to reality just a second here.

Two words... Chris Bosh.

23 and 10 became 17 and 7 in a hurry when he got on a stacked team didn't it.

23 and 13 for Garnett became 18 and 9 the instant he went to Boston. And 25 a game became 17 a game in a hurry for Allen.

Jordan even went from a 35 a game guy on a non-title team to a 30 a game guy on a title caliber team.

You see it all the time. Guy like Arron Afflalo goes to a crappy Magic team and starts putting up nearly 20 a game. Nick Young isn't a 20 a game guy with a contender.

The second Shaq left, Kobe's 25 a game became 32 a game.

Kareem? Numbers dropped the second he went to LA (30-15 to 26-13)


I really like Anthony Davis a lot but there's a huge difference from being great on a bad team and starting out your 3rd year with 25 and 12 and leading a team to an NBA championship in your 2nd year and putting up 27 and 14 in the finals.

So no, until Davis leads a team to the finals and dominates with great teammates in huge situations, he isn't better. You can't just pick up a guy and drop him in a completely different situation and expect any success. You can't expect him to just go up against a team led by a prime Shaq inside and drop 29-11 in a series.

It's funny that you are ridiculing me for providing stats, and then using stats to make your argument.

Isn't the reason that Davis is so great so young, that he can physically dominant the floor right now?


And it's funny that you say all of this, but you are ignoring that Davis is taking 17 shots per game right now, which is the same that Duncan took in that 99 season.

Bosh went from taking 16 shots per game to 13 shots per game because James and Wade needed to take more shots

Garnett went from 18 shots per game to 12.5

Jordan went from 28 shots per game when scoring 37 per game to 22 shots per game when scoring 30

Affalo gets to take 14 shots per game, Nick Young doesn't get to take 14 shots per game on a contender

Kobe went from 18 shots per game with Shaq, to 27 shots per game without him. I think you are gonna score more per game when you shoot the ball 9 more times per night.

Kareem, take a look how many shots per game he went down to, 24 down to 16? And his minutes dropped from 42 to 32? Take a look at his points per 36 minutes.



If Anthony Davis was on the 99 Spurs instead of Duncan, the Davis of today would still get to take 16-17 shots per game like he is taking now.

Also, Asik is a career 20% Rebound percent player, and getting 10 per game in only 27 minutes, these are better rates than the Admiral has ever posted.



I find it so silly that people expect an individual to lead an awful team to the Finals before anyone can give them any credit.

What Davis is doing at his age is very impressive, we'll continue to watch as he develops, but right now, he would be a very productive player in any scheme on both sides of the ball.

Jeffy25
11-17-2014, 02:52 AM
OP probably didn't see KG or Duncan in their primes.

Their primes are very recent, I doubt anyone on here missed their primes.

jerellh528
11-17-2014, 09:27 AM
Their primes are very recent, I doubt anyone on here missed their primes.

Like around a decade ago. So I can see where some younger posters didn't see thier primes/ peaks

Munkeysuit
11-17-2014, 10:39 AM
25 points/ 13 rebounds/ 2 assists/ 2 steals/ 4 blocks/ 59 TS%/ 35 PER/ .308 WS/48.


He will most likely sustain this production. His Per and WS/48 will go down a tad.

Any one else agree?

You really want realness? then I am going to tell you that you are absolutely insane if you think for even one second that Anthony Davis is better than Tim Duncan. Davis being better than Kevin Garnett however, you might have an argument there, and I am not about to get into the specifics of why, I just know enough about basketball to say so.
I love AD's game and think very highly of his upside, but there is no way in hell you can compare him to Timmy D, no way! Davis will have to beat him in the conference finals, win the MVP AND an NBA title to even be mentioned in the same breath as Duncan nuff said!

kdspurman
11-17-2014, 11:03 AM
Their primes are very recent, I doubt anyone on here missed their primes.

maybe 10-12 years ago.. Problem is you see those same guys playing now, you forget how they looked in their prime.

YAALREADYKNO
11-17-2014, 11:47 AM
KG in his prime was probably the most talented forward of alltime

valade16
11-17-2014, 12:40 PM
It's funny that you are ridiculing me for providing stats, and then using stats to make your argument.

Isn't the reason that Davis is so great so young, that he can physically dominant the floor right now?

And it's funny that you say all of this, but you are ignoring that Davis is taking 17 shots per game right now, which is the same that Duncan took in that 99 season.

Bosh went from taking 16 shots per game to 13 shots per game because James and Wade needed to take more shots

Garnett went from 18 shots per game to 12.5

Jordan went from 28 shots per game when scoring 37 per game to 22 shots per game when scoring 30

Affalo gets to take 14 shots per game, Nick Young doesn't get to take 14 shots per game on a contender

Kobe went from 18 shots per game with Shaq, to 27 shots per game without him. I think you are gonna score more per game when you shoot the ball 9 more times per night.

Kareem, take a look how many shots per game he went down to, 24 down to 16? And his minutes dropped from 42 to 32? Take a look at his points per 36 minutes.

If Anthony Davis was on the 99 Spurs instead of Duncan, the Davis of today would still get to take 16-17 shots per game like he is taking now.

Also, Asik is a career 20% Rebound percent player, and getting 10 per game in only 27 minutes, these are better rates than the Admiral has ever posted.

I find it so silly that people expect an individual to lead an awful team to the Finals before anyone can give them any credit.

What Davis is doing at his age is very impressive, we'll continue to watch as he develops, but right now, he would be a very productive player in any scheme on both sides of the ball.

I donít think it's Davis' inability to lead the Pelicans to the finals that is why people are knocking him, I think it's the fact he hasn't even led them to the playoffs.

Don't make it seem like his teams had been doing great they just haven't made over the hump to get to the finals, they haven't even been in the playoffs.

alexander_37
11-17-2014, 12:55 PM
CORRECT, Anthony Davis has superior ATHLETICISM and skills compare to Duncan better IQ and strength compare to KG and Timmy at age 21 more WILL power than both KG and TD

This post should come with a cancer warning.

Jeffy25
11-17-2014, 01:00 PM
I donít think it's Davis' inability to lead the Pelicans to the finals that is why people are knocking him, I think it's the fact he hasn't even led them to the playoffs.

Don't make it seem like his teams had been doing great they just haven't made over the hump to get to the finals, they haven't even been in the playoffs.

He's played two seasons and he didn't touch 2500 minutes in either year ....... they are off to a 5-3 start this season, and beat the defending champs. And he has a better team this year with him (Holliday, Evans, Gordon, Asik and Anderson makes a pretty good team for him)

Goose17
11-17-2014, 01:15 PM
Their primes are very recent, I doubt anyone on here missed their primes.

Not that recent really. I mean if you are 18/19 now, that means you were like 8/9 years old when Duncan was in his prime.

DaBUU
11-17-2014, 01:19 PM
More "will power" :confused:

What, is he turning down the ***** like AC Green?

took me a second to get this post, lol

HeatFan
11-17-2014, 06:31 PM
Duncan won a ring at 23 and Finals MVP. Davis is really good but accomplishing that is quite a task at this point.

AIverson
11-17-2014, 06:48 PM
KG was literally better at Everything than Davis. Every single basketball skill kg was flat out better. Davis has no argument.

AIRMAR72
11-17-2014, 08:38 PM
KG in his prime was probably the most talented forward of alltime I strongly disagree Rasheed Wallace and Derrick Coleman are the best Skilled PF to ever play in the NBA especially Wallace who NEVER took the game serious since he was so talented

ewing
11-17-2014, 11:24 PM
I strongly disagree Rasheed Wallace and Derrick Coleman are the best Skilled PF to ever play in the NBA especially Wallace who NEVER took the game serious since he was so talented

don't forget about Billy Owens and Vin Baker!

ghettosean
11-17-2014, 11:54 PM
KG in his prime was probably the most talented forward of alltime I strongly disagree Rasheed Wallace and Derrick Coleman are the best Skilled PF to ever play in the NBA especially Wallace who NEVER took the game serious since he was so talented

KG was a triple double waiting to happen in his prime.

ewing
11-18-2014, 12:01 AM
What about Shawn Kemp?

JEDean89
11-18-2014, 12:44 AM
his FG% given how many points he scores is astounding. only LBJ and Durant put up better number more efficiently.

Jeffy25
11-18-2014, 01:06 AM
KG was literally better at Everything than Davis. Every single basketball skill kg was flat out better. Davis has no argument.

Is that why his TS% is better than Garnett's?

Jeffy25
11-18-2014, 01:11 AM
Duncan won a ring at 23 and Finals MVP. Davis is really good but accomplishing that is quite a task at this point.

I still don't understand why he has to accomplish that?

Either way, he has 3 chances to do it until then.



I am so sick of the rings argument for individual greatness in the NBA forum.


This is still a team game. And your chances of winning a ring rely heavily on your team mates and their contributions, and heavily based on who you have to face.

I bet Karl Malone and John Stockton would have a ring if they didn't have to face Jordan.

Is it Malone and Stockton's fault that their best seasons were when Jordan was in his prime dominating?

And why is it so assumed that an individual is going to 'carry' his team to the Finals and win it?

Nobody can do that. Everybody that has won a ring had help, nobody does it alone.


We can't measure an individuals legacy and greatness based on rings. It's just a silly basis for measuring greatness, and doesn't actually measure what an individual could or couldn't do. It just measures their ability to win a championship based on a variety of circumstances assisting or deterring them from doing just that.

Jeffy25
11-18-2014, 01:16 AM
Not that recent really. I mean if you are 18/19 now, that means you were like 8/9 years old when Duncan was in his prime.

Duncan posted a 24 PER just as recently as two seasons ago in 12-13

That's pretty much what he's always been.

He's been just as productive as he was 10 years ago, just with 10 less minutes per game

Duncan's 12-13 season is almost as good as any of his prime seasons, just less minutes played per game.


Duncan never really left his prime, he just started playing less minutes and shooting less.

AIverson
11-18-2014, 01:18 AM
Is that why his TS% is better than Garnett's?

TS% is absolutely useless. Guys can shoot in the low 40's, play mad inconsistent and still put up a decent TS%. One of the worst stats in basketball.

Jeffy25
11-18-2014, 01:19 AM
TS% is absolutely useless. Guys can shoot in the low 40's, play mad inconsistent and still put up a decent TS%. One of the worst stats in basketball.

Okay, why does he post a better PER?

Jeffy25
11-18-2014, 01:19 AM
TS% is absolutely useless. Guys can shoot in the low 40's, play mad inconsistent and still put up a decent TS%. One of the worst stats in basketball.

Why does Davis have a better shooting percentage?

Jeffy25
11-18-2014, 01:20 AM
TS% is absolutely useless. Guys can shoot in the low 40's, play mad inconsistent and still put up a decent TS%. One of the worst stats in basketball.
Why does Davis post the same Rebound percentage?

Jeffy25
11-18-2014, 01:21 AM
TS% is absolutely useless. Guys can shoot in the low 40's, play mad inconsistent and still put up a decent TS%. One of the worst stats in basketball.

Why is Davis so much better at blocking shots?

AIverson
11-18-2014, 01:27 AM
Why does Davis have a better shooting percentage?

As of now, I'd say because he's putting his athleticism to better use and getting himself easier buckets. One thing he seems better than KG at is facing up his man and slashing to the hoop. He's also really quick to his spots. The guy is getting every shot he wants out there. It's absolutely incredible the level he's playing at right now.

Jeffy25
11-18-2014, 01:28 AM
KG was a triple double waiting to happen in his prime.

Unfortunately, it remained only waiting to happen....

He has only had 16 in his career

Lebron, Paul, and Rondo have each done that over a four year span

t_money25
11-18-2014, 01:47 AM
Tim Duncan 2003 NBA finals:

24.2 pts 17.0 rebounds 5.3 asts 5.3 blocks

Anthony Davis first 7 games this year:

24.9 pts 12.9 rebounds 2 asts 4.4 blocks



I think this settles the argument......that's if there ever was one.

JEDean89
11-18-2014, 02:24 PM
AD's PER is now over 37, like him or hate him that is historically incredible. For a 21 year old to be this good is frightening. Everyone will understand that this kid is gonna be the best player in basketball next year.

kdspurman
11-18-2014, 02:33 PM
Duncan posted a 24 PER just as recently as two seasons ago in 12-13

That's pretty much what he's always been.

He's been just as productive as he was 10 years ago, just with 10 less minutes per game

Duncan's 12-13 season is almost as good as any of his prime seasons, just less minutes played per game.


Duncan never really left his prime, he just started playing less minutes and shooting less.

All do respect, if you think just because he's got a similar PER now to what he had 10-11 years ago, that he is somehow still the same player, you'd be greatly mistaken. His 12-13 season can not be compared to what he was doing in his prime, and the load he had to carry on both ends.

His consistency is one the most impressive things about him, but he certainly was a different kind of player in his prime years, despite certain numbers being similar.

TrueFan420
11-18-2014, 03:08 PM
All do respect, if you think just because he's got a similar PER now to what he had 10-11 years ago, that he is somehow still the same player, you'd be greatly mistaken. His 12-13 season can not be compared to what he was doing in his prime, and the load he had to carry on both ends.

His consistency is one the most impressive things about him, but he certainly was a different kind of player in his prime years, despite certain numbers being similar.
Agreed. When he was in prime yes you knew what you'd get but he was also far more devastating to the other team in getting it than he is when getting it now.

Jeffy25
11-18-2014, 03:24 PM
All do respect, if you think just because he's got a similar PER now to what he had 10-11 years ago, that he is somehow still the same player, you'd be greatly mistaken. His 12-13 season can not be compared to what he was doing in his prime, and the load he had to carry on both ends.

His consistency is one the most impressive things about him, but he certainly was a different kind of player in his prime years, despite certain numbers being similar.

I didn't say that.

I said he was still posting similar stats as recently as 12-13 as he did in his prime, but with less minutes per game.

PER is an example of one of those stats.

Points per 36, etc fit too.

kdspurman
11-18-2014, 03:35 PM
I didn't say that.

I said he was still posting similar stats as recently as 12-13 as he did in his prime, but with less minutes per game.

PER is an example of one of those stats.

Points per 36, etc fit too.

Got it... Based off your post i replied to (and what you were replying to), it seemed you were hinting that even if some folks didn't watch TD in his prime, that his PER 2 years ago was similar to what they were in 03-04, so maybe TD 2 years ago is close to prime TD, which of course is far from true. Stats can be similar, but the kind of player he was and the impact he had were far greater.

Chronz
11-18-2014, 03:56 PM
Got it... Based off your post i replied to (and what you were replying to), it seemed you were hinting that even if some folks didn't watch TD in his prime, that his PER 2 years ago was similar to what they were in 03-04, so maybe TD 2 years ago is close to prime TD, which of course is far from true. Stats can be similar, but the kind of player he was and the impact he had were far greater.

I think you overrate the difference in impact, in fact, Id argue hes a better defender in his later years than he was in his youth. The real difference comes in the form of the minutes he can play, which I understand is part of the argument. But if Duncan could play the 44 MPG that might've been demanded of him on a lesser team, his impact would be very close to what it was. But those days are over so hes definitely declined, but I dont see this dramatic difference considering his decline was less noticeable than many star bigs. Its not like Moses Malone who remained an All-Star in his later years but was obviously less dominant, Duncan has aged like fine wine so the difference is less profound IMO.

Goose17
11-18-2014, 03:56 PM
Duncan's 12-13 season is almost as good as any of his prime seasons, just less minutes played per game.


I don't agree. Sorry. His prime was about a decade ago. He's still great but he's not the same player he was back then.

Chronz
11-18-2014, 03:59 PM
I don't agree. Sorry. His prime was about a decade ago. He's still great but he's not the same player he was back then.

I dont think he said he was the "same" player.

Jeffy25
11-18-2014, 04:03 PM
I don't agree. Sorry. His prime was about a decade ago. He's still great but he's not the same player he was back then.

I just said he's as productive with the ball as he used to be when he touches it.

Or that was the implication.

Goose17
11-18-2014, 04:11 PM
I dont think he said he was the "same" player.

He implied that he was as good now as he was in his prime.

If that's not what he was trying to say I don't even understand why he bothered to reply, the comment I made was that not everyone on here would have seen Duncan play in his prime, which is true. Because his prime was a decade ago.


I can't believe this is even still a thread, Davis isn't even comparable at this point. It's far too early to have this discussion.

kdspurman
11-18-2014, 05:26 PM
I think you overrate the difference in impact, in fact, Id argue hes a better defender in his later years than he was in his youth. The real difference comes in the form of the minutes he can play, which I understand is part of the argument. But if Duncan could play the 44 MPG that might've been demanded of him on a lesser team, his impact would be very close to what it was. But those days are over so hes definitely declined, but I dont see this dramatic difference considering his decline was less noticeable than many star bigs. Its not like Moses Malone who remained an All-Star in his later years but was obviously less dominant, Duncan has aged like fine wine so the difference is less profound IMO.

You know, I agree to a degree about his defensive impact, though obviously when he was younger he was much more mobile and thus was able to switch more on P&R's and a much better help defender. He's just gotten smarter, and his timing on blocking shots is one thing I noticed more than anything. He barely jumps on anything, but his timing is just so sharp now rebounding, blocking, etc... As he's gotten older, you are seeing his IQ stand out on that end, whereas in his youth, he could rely on his body more than his mind.

SPURSFAN1
11-18-2014, 05:41 PM
Jeff answer the question. Is Davis better than prime TD or KG? Simple yes or no will suffice.

Chronz
11-18-2014, 05:54 PM
You know, I agree to a degree about his defensive impact, though obviously when he was younger he was much more mobile and thus was able to switch more on P&R's and a much better help defender. He's just gotten smarter, and his timing on blocking shots is one thing I noticed more than anything. He barely jumps on anything, but his timing is just so sharp now rebounding, blocking, etc... As he's gotten older, you are seeing his IQ stand out on that end, whereas in his youth, he could rely on his body more than his mind.

I also think the league has less stellar do it all defenders among bigs these days, so even if Duncan is roughly the same defender, the advantage he gives the Spurs is slightly greater. Especially at the 4, thats the main reason the Spurs have wanted to keep Duncan there.

Chronz
11-18-2014, 05:56 PM
He implied that he was as good now as he was in his prime.

If that's not what he was trying to say I don't even understand why he bothered to reply, the comment I made was that not everyone on here would have seen Duncan play in his prime, which is true. Because his prime was a decade ago.


I can't believe this is even still a thread, Davis isn't even comparable at this point. It's far too early to have this discussion.

True

SPURSFAN1
11-18-2014, 05:59 PM
I wonder what pop would say if a sideline reporter asked him this same question. :laugh:

ChiSox219
11-18-2014, 09:39 PM
If all three were rookies, I'd draft Davis without hesistation.

Jeffy25
11-18-2014, 09:46 PM
Jeff answer the question. Is Davis better than prime TD or KG? Simple yes or no will suffice.

Not yet, but he could become.

We don't have enough data on him, but he is playing better at this age, then either were playing at this age. And that says something about his future.

Vinny642
11-18-2014, 10:23 PM
I hate the knock on him that he cant lead the Pels to the playoffs... It is ignorant and not well thought out.

Playing in the SW division..... against the Spurs, Mavs, Rockets and Grizz, 4 times each.... is crazy... then playing the rest of the West... with at the time(last season and his rookie year) mediocre talent around him

alexander_37
11-19-2014, 01:05 AM
**** it, hand Davis 6 championships 300 million and let him retire now. It's already written in stone.

tredigs
11-19-2014, 01:20 AM
It is pretty hilarious that the #2 leader in PER has a 27. And Davis is roughly 10 points above that.

I watched him block a fade away jumper last game (LA's in the post I think) directly to another Blazers player who took an immediate no-dribble fade away jumper. Davis blocked that as well. Touche'.

tredigs
11-19-2014, 01:25 AM
He leads the league in steals, blocks, WS/48, Box+/-, VORP and PER (as mentioned, by a country mile). He is a monster. It's really fun to watch extreme potential see and exceed the hype. Future's in good hands.

He still makes mistakes defensively that Duncan was far ahead of him on even at a tender age, but his athleticism is a beast to behold. Nice road win against DMC and the Kings on the road tonight too.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 05:53 AM
We don't have enough data on him, but he is playing better at this age, then either were playing at this age. And that says something about his future.

How is he playing better at this age than they were? I'm sorry but it's not even been double digit games yet, you can't compare an entire season to 9/10 games. That's ludicrous.

And let's not forget Duncan was a rookie when he was 21. Big difference. You should be comparing his third season to Davis third season.

But hey, Duncan went through a 10 game stretch when he was 21 where he averaged; 22 PPG, 11.7 RPG, 3.3 BPG on 59% from the field.

Isn't that comparable to Davis last 10 game stretch? 25.5, 3.9, 11.4 on 57% ??

Considering Duncan was a rookie when he did that and Davis is in his third year... on top of that Duncan was sharing the floor with Robinson and still managed to put up those scoring and rebounding numbers.


This conversation just doesn't make sense right now.

Jeffy25
11-19-2014, 09:57 AM
How is he playing better at this age than they were? I'm sorry but it's not even been double digit games yet, you can't compare an entire season to 9/10 games. That's ludicrous.

And let's not forget Duncan was a rookie when he was 21. Big difference. You should be comparing his third season to Davis third season.

But hey, Duncan went through a 10 game stretch when he was 21 where he averaged; 22 PPG, 11.7 RPG, 3.3 BPG on 59% from the field.

Isn't that comparable to Davis last 10 game stretch? 25.5, 3.9, 11.4 on 57% ??

Considering Duncan was a rookie when he did that and Davis is in his third year... on top of that Duncan was sharing the floor with Robinson and still managed to put up those scoring and rebounding numbers.


This conversation just doesn't make sense right now.

He did play last year, didn't he? And the year before

What Anthony Davis is putting up on a nightly basis through his age 21 season, is better than what Duncan and Garnett were putting up in the NBA through their age 21 seasons.

Duncan was in his rookie year, and had a great year, but Davis' career numbers are already better than what Duncan did in that season alone, and Davis has another 72 games to play this season. Garnett's age 21 season and career prior are obviously inferior to Davis.



It's silly to compare them by the number of seasons. We are talking about what the players will become. Davis got one year of college, Duncan got three. What we care about is what they accomplish in the NBA. And Davis has a better start through this age than either Garnett or Duncan.

Jeffy25
11-19-2014, 10:05 AM
The third season argument is just silly.

Is Davis going to retire two years earlier than Duncan or something?

Is he going to reach his prime two years earlier because he entered the league two years younger?

Age, not number of seasons. Duncan got to develop while in college, Davis got to develop while in the NBA for the age 19 and 20 seasons. We care about production. And my original statement was what Davis has done through this age.

kdspurman
11-19-2014, 10:51 AM
The third season argument is just silly.

Is Davis going to retire two years earlier than Duncan or something?

Is he going to reach his prime two years earlier because he entered the league two years younger?

Age, not number of seasons. Duncan got to develop while in college, Davis got to develop while in the NBA for the age 19 and 20 seasons. We care about production. And my original statement was what Davis has done through this age.

it's not necessarily silly, but it should at least be considered/factored in when you're talking about what 1 guy is doing at 21, in his 3rd year in the league, vs what another did @ age 21 who was in his rookie season still learning the ropes of the NBA. College & the NBA are different, though college does help one prepare better and learn the fundamentals if in the right program. (BTW, Timmy played 4 years in college)

I mean a similar comparison would be comparing Lebron's numbers @ age 21 to Jordan. Jordan (like Duncan) was a rookie at age 21. Lebron had a higher PER, and scored more.

It just seems odd to compare someones rookie season to someones 3rd season without at least considering other factors. I get the age comparison & I realize what Davis has done through these 10 games is very impressive. I'm not taking anything away from him at all. I'm glad there is another dominant big, they're missed big time in the league these days.

But just for arguments sake, in Duncan's rookie season @ age 21, he had a 10 game stretch of 26.9 ppg 12.8 rpg and 3.5 bpg on 50.4% fg. So I think the biggest thing here (like others have alluded to) is to not get ahead of ourselves with such a small sample size and let the season play out and see what unfolds. It's fine to talk about his incredible start, but the OP (not saying you did) certainly jumped the gun a bit with the statement that was made

kdspurman
11-19-2014, 10:55 AM
How is he playing better at this age than they were? I'm sorry but it's not even been double digit games yet, you can't compare an entire season to 9/10 games. That's ludicrous.

And let's not forget Duncan was a rookie when he was 21. Big difference. You should be comparing his third season to Davis third season.

But hey, Duncan went through a 10 game stretch when he was 21 where he averaged; 22 PPG, 11.7 RPG, 3.3 BPG on 59% from the field.

Isn't that comparable to Davis last 10 game stretch? 25.5, 3.9, 11.4 on 57% ??

Considering Duncan was a rookie when he did that and Davis is in his third year... on top of that Duncan was sharing the floor with Robinson and still managed to put up those scoring and rebounding numbers.


This conversation just doesn't make sense right now.

Agreed. I have a similar opinion on this.

Longhornfan1234
11-19-2014, 11:12 AM
AD leading league in blocks, steals, PER , and WS/48. He's also 3rd in scoring and 3rd rebounding. He's just laughing at Duncan and KG at this point. It's sad he has to carry bunch of chuckers into MOST STACKED WC playoffs in history.

valade16
11-19-2014, 11:43 AM
The third season argument is just silly.

Is Davis going to retire two years earlier than Duncan or something?

Is he going to reach his prime two years earlier because he entered the league two years younger?

Age, not number of seasons. Duncan got to develop while in college, Davis got to develop while in the NBA for the age 19 and 20 seasons. We care about production. And my original statement was what Davis has done through this age.

Age can be used in context but it's ridiculously unfair to say that we should compare Anthony Davis' 3rd season with Duncan's first because they were the same age. That's like comparing cars based on their age and not their mileage and saying the 5 year old car with 200,000 miles on it is less likely to break down than the 8 year old car with 100,000 miles on it because it is younger.

jerellh528
11-19-2014, 11:45 AM
Davis can guard any position and also he could average so much more points, rebounds, blocks, and assists if he wanted to

alexander_37
11-19-2014, 12:09 PM
The third season argument is just silly.

Is Davis going to retire two years earlier than Duncan or something?

Is he going to reach his prime two years earlier because he entered the league two years younger?

Age, not number of seasons. Duncan got to develop while in college, Davis got to develop while in the NBA for the age 19 and 20 seasons. We care about production. And my original statement was what Davis has done through this age.

You also have to take into account that Duncan is a freak of nature when it comes to defying age. Davis totally could be Duncan like in this regard but I doubt it. Regardless we will have to wait 17 years to find that out.

KnicksorBust
11-19-2014, 12:14 PM
You also have to take into account that Duncan is a freak of nature when it comes to defying age. Davis totally could be Duncan like in this regard but I doubt it. Regardless we will have to wait 17 years to find that out.

It's a great question but the safe answer is always to assume that the young player is NOT going to have a 17 year career with 5 titles and legendary consistency. :)

alexander_37
11-19-2014, 12:23 PM
It's a great question but the safe answer is always to assume that the young player is NOT going to have a 17 year career with 5 titles and legendary consistency. :)

Which was my point and which is why I said I doubt it.

Jeffy25
11-19-2014, 01:23 PM
it's not necessarily silly, but it should at least be considered/factored in when you're talking about what 1 guy is doing at 21, in his 3rd year in the league, vs what another did @ age 21 who was in his rookie season still learning the ropes of the NBA. College & the NBA are different, though college does help one prepare better and learn the fundamentals if in the right program. (BTW, Timmy played 4 years in college)

I mean a similar comparison would be comparing Lebron's numbers @ age 21 to Jordan. Jordan (like Duncan) was a rookie at age 21. Lebron had a higher PER, and scored more.

It just seems odd to compare someones rookie season to someones 3rd season without at least considering other factors. I get the age comparison & I realize what Davis has done through these 10 games is very impressive. I'm not taking anything away from him at all. I'm glad there is another dominant big, they're missed big time in the league these days.

But just for arguments sake, in Duncan's rookie season @ age 21, he had a 10 game stretch of 26.9 ppg 12.8 rpg and 3.5 bpg on 50.4% fg. So I think the biggest thing here (like others have alluded to) is to not get ahead of ourselves with such a small sample size and let the season play out and see what unfolds. It's fine to talk about his incredible start, but the OP (not saying you did) certainly jumped the gun a bit with the statement that was made

The argument isn't the small sampling of this season.

It's what he has produced so far in his career.

All three seasons combined (Rate wise) are better than either Garnett or Duncan through the same age.

And Davis has another 70 games to play this year


Duncan - 21.1/11.9/2.5/2.7/0.7 - 22.6 PER, .577 TS% through 3204 minutes

Garnett - 15.3/8.0/3.1/1.9/1.4 - 18.4 PER, .529 TS% through 8510 minutes

Davis - 17.8/9.3/1.3/2.4/1.3 - 25.3 PER, .577 TS% through 4571 minutes

And Davis just started the season that gave Duncan these numbers. A season in which he is playing at much stronger levels than before.


This isn't a small sampling. Davis was a very good player last year too.

The idea that through the age of 21, that he is the best of these three is not unfounded. Garnett isn't even in the conversation. And Davis has 70 games before we can even bother with the data comp to Duncan. Because 10 games into Duncan's age 21 season he only had 16 PPG, obviously there is time for improvements or regressions.



By citing a ten game stretch by Duncan in that season, it tells me that you think I am making the argument for Davis based on what he has done this year. But that's not the case, it includes what he has done so far professionally the last two years as well. And he obviously has been a fantastic player for his age.


And comparing third seasons is ridiculous because there is no reason to expect a 19 year old Davis to be the same caliber rookie as a 21 year old Duncan who had four years at Wake Forest.

We care about age, because we are talking about greatness, we are talking about their careers. Davis isn't automatically going to play the same number of seasons as Duncan. His age affects his minutes, peak, etc. not his number of seasons in the league.

ghettosean
11-19-2014, 01:23 PM
AD leading league in blocks, steals, PER , and WS/48. He's also 3rd in scoring and 3rd rebounding. He's just laughing at Duncan and KG at this point. It's sad he has to carry bunch of chuckers into MOST STACKED WC playoffs in history.

Lebron in his 3rd year averaged:

31pts, 6.6 Asts, 7 Rebs per game

So Lebron > AD

But looking at Duncans full career to now Duncan > Lebron on an all time list (could change).

This just shows how premature this thread is anyone can pull stats from anywhere right now but it's not proving much. Beyond that different rules in different era's will also influence stats in one way or another. Either way this thread is completely premature as well as a lot of posts in it.

ghettosean
11-19-2014, 01:29 PM
Lebron in his 3rd year averaged:

31pts, 6.6 Asts, 7 Rebs per game

So Lebron > AD

But looking at Duncans full career to now Duncan > Lebron on an all time list (could change).

This just shows how premature this thread is anyone can pull stats from anywhere right now but it's not proving much. Beyond that different rules in different era's will also influence stats in one way or another. Either way this thread is completely premature as well as a lot of posts in it.

Just to add the competition at that time matters as well... We aren't exactly in an era of an abundance of talented big men right now so lack of competition can also play a factor. I'm not trying to take too much away from Davis as he's clearly an amazing player but it just seems like a lot of people here are just posting stats and saying "LOOK" and that's pretty much it.

Drives me a little crazy.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 02:00 PM
The third season argument is just silly.



No it isn't. What's silly is comparing a guy who has been producing at a high level for five minutes versus a guy who has done it for 17 years. What's silly is comparing a 21 year old with two years of NBA experience under his belt against a 21 year old rookie.




Age, not number of seasons. Duncan got to develop while in college, Davis got to develop while in the NBA for the age 19 and 20 seasons. We care about production. And my original statement was what Davis has done through this age.

The college game and the NBA couldn't be more different. How many great college players fumbled when entering the NBA?

It's the equivalent of me saying;

Monta Ellis aged 22; 20 PPG, 5 RPG, 4 APG on 53% (3rd year in the league)
Dwyane Wade aged 22; 16 PPG, 4 RPG, 4 APG on 46% (rookie year)

Monta > Wade

It's a foolish way to compare players. You can't compare someone's first year of pro ball to another guys third year of pro ball and think that it's a fair comparison. You just can't. It defies logic.

And you compare WHOLE seasons not 10 games compared to an entire body of work.



What happened to basketball fans? Seriously.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 02:07 PM
The idea that through the age of 21, that he is the best of these three is not unfounded. Garnett isn't even in the conversation.

Really? You don't say. The guy who has played in the league for three years is better in comparison to one season (the ROOKIE season) of another guy?

That's amazing.

Holy crap, everyone! Look at basketball reference! I just checked and in Jeremy Lins first three years he produced better than Nash did in his rookie season. It's clear to me now that Jeremy Lin is actually the most efficient point guard that has ever lived.


You're comparing three years to ONE... do you seriously not understand why that argument is flawed? You're comparing a 21 year old rookie to a 21 year old in his 3rd year with two seasons under his belt.

I mean jesus PSD, you've produced some utter shite at times but this one takes the biscuit. Get a hold of yourselves.

ChiSox219
11-19-2014, 04:24 PM
What happened to basketball fans is right.......If you can't recognize Anthony Davis as an all-time great talent by now, you are blind or dumb, that's all there is to it.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 04:31 PM
What happened to basketball fans is right.......If you can't recognize Anthony Davis as an all-time great talent by now, you are blind or dumb, that's all there is to it.

Yep. After two seasons and 10 games it's clear to me he's the greatest that ever played the game.

Chronz
11-19-2014, 04:47 PM
Yep. After two seasons and 10 games it's clear to me he's the greatest that ever played the game.

If you have to wait for it to come true, its not much of a prediction. Strictly in terms of talent (small hands aside), hes right about AD being that type of prospect. He has all-time talent written all over him, based on sheer athletic ability, advanced skill set and ABSOLUTELY INSANE production at every juncture of his career development.

Nobody is saying hes had the better career thus far, thats asinine. But he could very well be the superior player.

ChiSox219
11-19-2014, 05:06 PM
If you have to wait for it to come true, its not much of a prediction. Strictly in terms of talent (small hands aside), hes right about AD being that type of prospect. He has all-time talent written all over him, based on sheer athletic ability, advanced skill set and ABSOLUTELY INSANE production at every juncture of his career development.

Nobody is saying hes had the better career thus far, thats asinine. But he could very well be the superior player.

Hand size hasnt been an issue maybe a bit of blessing though, as he's hitting on over 40% of his midrange and nearly 80% of his free throws while still being able to catch everything and finish at the rim. Saw him up close a few weeks ago against Charlotte and it was just jaw dropping.

Jeffy25
11-19-2014, 05:30 PM
No it isn't. What's silly is comparing a guy who has been producing at a high level for five minutes versus a guy who has done it for 17 years. What's silly is comparing a 21 year old with two years of NBA experience under his belt against a 21 year old rookie.
I haven't done this!

I haven't once compared Anthony Davis' career so far to Duncan and Garnett's complete careers.


I have said that Davis, through this age, is off to a better start.


You are confusing me, with the OP that started this thread. I haven't made that comparison.




The college game and the NBA couldn't be more different. How many great college players fumbled when entering the NBA?
I also, never compared them.

They each had the opportunity to develop. That's all that I said.


It's the equivalent of me saying;

Monta Ellis aged 22; 20 PPG, 5 RPG, 4 APG on 53% (3rd year in the league)
Dwyane Wade aged 22; 16 PPG, 4 RPG, 4 APG on 46% (rookie year)

You are isolating Ellis' best season of his career and Wade's worst season of his career.

Duncan and Wade don't get a new advantage in rankings all-time (or otherwise) for starting their careers later than Davis or Ellis.




Monta > Wade

You do realize that I've never said Davis>Duncan, right?

I said, better start.




You seem to really be struggling to actually read my posts. Maybe take a moment, and see the argument I am making.

That Davis is off to a better start to his career than Duncan or Garnett, and that is a good sign for him.

rhd420
11-19-2014, 05:32 PM
Lebron in his 3rd year averaged:

31pts, 6.6 Asts, 7 Rebs per game

So Lebron > AD

But looking at Duncans full career to now Duncan > Lebron on an all time list (could change).

This just shows how premature this thread is anyone can pull stats from anywhere right now but it's not proving much. Beyond that different rules in different era's will also influence stats in one way or another. Either way this thread is completely premature as well as a lot of posts in it.

BINGO - but this just proves how the NBA can and will create new stars
The pressure of winning a title will probably start coming in a couple of seasons as well as free agency, imagine if Davis wants to go to a contender, how many fans would rip him just like LeBron, Bosh, etc
NBA is in great shape for the next decade

Jeffy25
11-19-2014, 05:40 PM
Really? You don't say. The guy who has played in the league for three years is better in comparison to one season (the ROOKIE season) of another guy?

That's amazing.

Holy crap, everyone! Look at basketball reference! I just checked and in Jeremy Lins first three years he produced better than Nash did in his rookie season. It's clear to me now that Jeremy Lin is actually the most efficient point guard that has ever lived.

Is it your goal to just straw man the hell out of this into nonsense?

Davis is off to one of the best starts in NBA history to a career.

That doesn't mean he is better than Duncan all-time, I've never said anything close to that. Just that he is off to a better start.

Nash and Lin both entered the NBA at 22, you are ignoring my argument completely and trying to debunk it by turning into complete nonsense.


You're comparing three years to ONE... do you seriously not understand why that argument is flawed? You're comparing a 21 year old rookie to a 21 year old in his 3rd year with two seasons under his belt.
I'm not comparing three years to one.

I'm comparing the numbers of two players through a certain age.

That's it. And I'm not even comparing the totals. I'm comparing the rates and efficiencies. I'm not saying because Davis has scored 800 more points by this age, that he's off to a better start.

It's that Davis has an elite efficiency and great rate stats at such a very young age. In fact, he does't have to improve too much to be as good as Duncan was during his prime:

The last two years, Davis has:

21.4 PPG, 10.2 TRB, 1.6 APG, 3.0 Blk, 1.5 Steal, 27.8 PER, 13.0 WS, .230 WS/48, in 2725 minutes

Does that not look exactly like a Tim Duncan prime season?

And this is for a kid that is 20/21

He is off to a great start.


I mean jesus PSD, you've produced some utter shite at times but this one takes the biscuit. Get a hold of yourselves.

Well it would certainly make more sense if you actually took the time to read the arguments people make, instead of just jumping to assumptions about what you think they are saying.

That would help

Chronz
11-19-2014, 05:47 PM
Hand size hasnt been an issue maybe a bit of blessing though, as he's hitting on over 40% of his midrange and nearly 80% of his free throws while still being able to catch everything and finish at the rim. Saw him up close a few weeks ago against Charlotte and it was just jaw dropping.

I cant wait to see him up close, I dont know who sets the prices but the chance to see him square off vs Blake shouldn't be this cheap, I would gladly pony up enough money to skip 3 games for the chance to see this kid. As it stands tho, this is probably the best entertainment/quality of talent to cost ratio I will ever experienced, not since I was a kid and saw Dream and Nique up close have I felt this giddy.

Yes, giddy.

And small hands are usually a detriment but they aren't stone hands by any means.

kdspurman
11-19-2014, 05:54 PM
Davis is off to one of the best starts in NBA history to a career.

That doesn't mean he is better than Duncan all-time, I've never said anything close to that. Just that he is off to a better start.

Nash and Lin both entered the NBA at 22, you are ignoring my argument completely and trying to debunk it by turning into complete nonsense.


I'm not comparing three years to one.

I'm comparing the numbers of two players through a certain age.

That's it. And I'm not even comparing the totals. I'm comparing the rates and efficiencies. I'm not saying because Davis has scored 800 more points by this age, that he's off to a better start.

It's that Davis has an elite efficiency and great rate stats at such a very young age. In fact, he does't have to improve too much to be as good as Duncan was during his prime:

The last two years, Davis has:

21.4 PPG, 10.2 TRB, 1.6 APG, 3.0 Blk, 1.5 Steal, 27.8 PER, 13.0 WS, .230 WS/48, in 2725 minutes

Does that not look exactly like a Tim Duncan prime season?

And this is for a kid that is 20/21

He is off to a great start.


Few things I'll comment on since I think your comments before were taken out of context...


I'm not comparing three years to one.

I'm comparing the numbers of two players through a certain age.

I guess if you compare through a certain age though (which I assume is 21?) Is Davis has a couple years under his belt already by 21 in the NBA. So this is why to compare through a certain age when 1 guy was a rookie at that age, it's tricky to compare. If that makes sense


The last two years, Davis has:

21.4 PPG, 10.2 TRB, 1.6 APG, 3.0 Blk, 1.5 Steal, 27.8 PER, 13.0 WS, .230 WS/48, in 2725 minutes

Does that not look exactly like a Tim Duncan prime season?

Not quite exactly :) , but still very, very good numbers of course.

From Duncan's 2001 season

25.5 PPG, 12.7 TRB, 3.7 APG, 2.5 BPG, .7 SPG, 27.0 PER, 17.8 WS , .257 WS/48

Minutes are different, but just comparing from one of Duncan's better seasons. Obviously pretty similar. The key for Davis will be if he can up his play in the playoffs (which is something Malone gets flack for), and if he can consistently do this or more as his career progresses. Only time will tell for that.

Which is why I think the OP's take is sort of ludicrous to make a bold statement so soon.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 06:01 PM
I'm comparing the numbers of two players through a certain age.


No. You're not. You're comparing a player who has had two years experience of pro ball to a players rookie year. It's just daft.


Davis is off to a better start to his career than Duncan or Garnett, and that is a good sign for him.

You can only really say that if his first three years > Duncans first three years.

You can't compare his third season to Duncans first, it defies logic. Nobody who knows anything about pro basketball would do that.

Goose17
11-19-2014, 06:02 PM
If you have to wait for it to come true, its not much of a prediction. Strictly in terms of talent (small hands aside), hes right about AD being that type of prospect. He has all-time talent written all over him, based on sheer athletic ability, advanced skill set and ABSOLUTELY INSANE production at every juncture of his career development.

Nobody is saying hes had the better career thus far, thats asinine. But he could very well be the superior player.

Of course he's elite caliber, I'm not debating that. I'm debating that comparing him to Duncan and calling Davis an all time great after two seasons and 10 games is completely moronic.

ChiSox219
11-19-2014, 06:27 PM
Of course he's elite caliber, I'm not debating that. I'm debating that comparing him to Duncan and calling Davis an all time great after two seasons and 10 games is completely moronic.

No it's not moronic, you will find several great basketball minds in and out of the association that have already compared him to Duncan and KG. He's posting insane numbers while playing a style that includes so many skill sets it's mind boggling.


I cant wait to see him up close, I dont know who sets the prices but the chance to see him square off vs Blake shouldn't be this cheap, I would gladly pony up enough money to skip 3 games for the chance to see this kid. As it stands tho, this is probably the best entertainment/quality of talent to cost ratio I will ever experienced, not since I was a kid and saw Dream and Nique up close have I felt this giddy.

Yes, giddy.

And small hands are usually a detriment but they aren't stone hands by any means.

Nice, that's such a great match up to see, like even Jrue vs CP3 will be interesting. I got free tickets in NOLA on the 100 level because my Aunt is the greatest but in terms of value for a game I paid, I sat 4th row for Bulls-Thunder a couple years back, $180 ticket for Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Ibaka, Jeff Green vs soon to be MVP Derrick Rose and fully healthy Bulls squad.

Jeffy25
11-19-2014, 06:31 PM
No. You're not. You're comparing a player who has had two years experience of pro ball to a players rookie year. It's just daft.



You can only really say that if his first three years > Duncans first three years.

You can't compare his third season to Duncans first, it defies logic. Nobody who knows anything about pro basketball would do that.

It defies logic to expect Davis to be as productive after three years in the NBA with one year of college, to Duncan who had four years in college, and expect them to be developmentally similar.

But that's not even the point.

We are talking about their all-time levels and abilities.

Is Davis going to play the exact same number of seasons as Duncan? Is Davis going to enter his prime at the same season and is it reasonable to expect his prime to be his 3rd through 8th seasons? Or is it more reasonable to expect him to have his prime from 24-29 like the average NBA player does?

His age is more indicative of his future career, rather than his number of seasons in the NBA

Jeffy25
11-19-2014, 06:33 PM
Of course he's elite caliber, I'm not debating that. I'm debating that comparing him to Duncan and calling Davis an all time great after two seasons and 10 games is completely moronic.

Who has done that other than Longhorn, the OP, which nobody agreed with?