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Rivera
11-13-2014, 11:26 AM
Pablo S. Torre

ESPN The Magazine | November 13, 2014


NEW YORK -- Michele Roberts, the NBA players' union executive director, on Wednesday questioned several of the principles that for decades have governed owner-player relations in the league, objecting to the concept of a salary cap while making clear she'd push for much more than a 50-50 split of basketball-related income.

"Why don't we have the owners play half the games?" Roberts said, speaking in her Harlem office to ESPN The Magazine. "There would be no money if not for the players."

"Let's call it what it is. There. Would. Be. No. Money," she added, pausing for emphasis. "Thirty more owners can come in, and nothing will change. These guys [the players] go? The game will change. So let's stop pretending."

But given the context of a nine-year, $24 billion TV deal set to begin in 2016, and the players' ability to opt out of the league's collective bargaining agreement after the 2016-17 season, Roberts' relatively radical perspective could prove to be just as profound a change.

"I don't know of any space other than the world of sports where there's this notion that we will artificially deflate what someone's able to make, just because," she said, talking about a salary cap -- a collectively bargained policy that, in its current form, has constrained team spending in the NBA since 1984-85. "It's incredibly un-American. My DNA is offended by it."

The rookie wage scale, she argued, is also problematic, as are max contracts, another entrenched restriction of the NBA's free market that Roberts wants dissolved.

"I can't understand why the [players' association] would be interested in suppressing salaries at the top if we know that as salaries at the top have grown, so have salaries at the bottom," she said. "If that's the case, I contend that there is no reason in the world why the union should embrace salary caps or any effort to place a barrier on the amount of money that marquee players can make."

But Roberts didn't merely take aim at financial constraints on player wages.

While commissioner Adam Silver has proposed increasing the NBA draft age limit to 20, Roberts rejected the philosophy underpinning an age minimum.

"It doesn't make sense to me that you're suddenly eligible and ready to make money when you're 20, but not when you're 19, not when you're 18," she said. "I suspect that the association will agree that this is not going to be one that they will agree to easily. There is no other profession that says that you're old enough to die but not old enough to work."

Nor does Roberts expect the players to swiftly consent to the current plan for "cap smoothing," as relayed by the NBA's attorneys, wherein the league would avoid a TV-driven spike in the salary cap in 2016 by artificially and incrementally increasing the cap over multiple seasons leading into that season.

"You can call it a 'spike,' but it's also just an accurate reflection of what the revenue is," she said. "At first glance, [cap smoothing] is not that attractive, I won't lie. But we're studying it to figure out if there really is some advantage for players."

Roberts also would like to keep investigating the prospect of shortening the 82-game season, a desire already expressed by superstars such as LeBron James and Dirk Nowitzki.

"Every time a player gets hurt, I think, my God, they really are pushing their bodies," she said. "And back-to-backs, those are the ones I really find disturbing. ... So the answer, of course, is that everybody wants a shorter season. The tension is, Will that mean less money? And that's something we need to talk about and think about. ... I don't think it would hurt the game to shorten the season."

In fact, Roberts doesn't think that teams are hurting for money, period -- even if she did recently hear Silver report that roughly one-third of NBA franchises are still unprofitable.

"I initially just started laughing, to be honest with you," she said of her reaction to that statistic. "I know that as a result of the last CBA, at least 1.3 billion dollars in revenue that would have otherwise been on the players' side is now on the owners' side. I see the valuations of these teams going though the roof. ... How much more do you need to make money?"

So how has the NBA managed to successfully institute legislation that, in Roberts' view, is both opposed to this country's capitalistic principles and her players' best interests?

"No one wants to say it out loud, but it's a monopoly," she said. "And were there alternatives, they wouldn't get away with it."

"I'll give the league credit," she added. "They have done a great job controlling the narrative."

Link: http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=11868612

kobe4thewinbang
11-13-2014, 11:30 AM
Sorry, but when these guys are making millions shooting a ball, I have little sympathy for the fact that they could be making billions for shooting a ball. And 9/10, an 18 year old fizzles out in the NBA.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2014, 11:40 AM
and there would be no league if not for these rich billionaires to build arenas, form a league, and make it possible for a game to be a profession.

STFU players, you get paid enough money. There are no other jobs in the world outside pro sports where an IQ of 75 can let you make $10 million a year.

Shorten the season? That means less revenue, meaning less for your players bud.

I go back to the Rose thread as well. Damaging your body? Get over it, you play a pro contact sport, and get paid to damage your body. If you don't want to risk injuries, go be a painter or work at Walmart.

The whole, "if you are 18, you can die in war, but can't play in the NBA" is stupid. We are at the most peaceful time in American history in a landslide. Better chance they are killed in a drive by than in war.

God, the sense of entitlement nowadays, not just in basketball, but in general, is alarming

cmellofan15
11-13-2014, 11:52 AM
almost sympathized for a second until I realized who we were talking about lol.

2-ONE-5
11-13-2014, 11:53 AM
and there would be no league if not for these rich billionaires to build arenas, form a league, and make it possible for a game to be a profession.

STFU players, you get paid enough money. There are no other jobs in the world outside pro sports where an IQ of 75 can let you make $10 million a year.

Shorten the season? That means less revenue, meaning less for your players bud.

I go back to the Rose thread as well. Damaging your body? Get over it, you play a pro contact sport, and get paid to damage your body. If you don't want to risk injuries, go be a painter or work at Walmart.

The whole, "if you are 18, you can die in war, but can't play in the NBA" is stupid. We are at the most peaceful time in American history in a landslide. Better chance they are killed in a drive by than in war.

God, the sense of entitlement nowadays, not just in basketball, but in general, is alarming

exactly my thoughts. good post

D-Leethal
11-13-2014, 11:58 AM
I agree. Of course there would be no league without players. But lets see these uneducated players spearhead a franchise, manage 500+ employees from marketing, sales, operations, management and band together to form a multi billion dollar professional basketball league.

MrfadeawayJB
11-13-2014, 12:06 PM
It's a privilege to play in the NBA. If they don't like it the way it is, go somewhere else and play or flip burgers, makes no difference to me.

Slug3
11-13-2014, 12:25 PM
I mean SOME very few players don't get paid enough (Lebron, Kobe in the past, etc). But they are they very few that fall into that. But really, this is going to be a big fight. Players are going to point out the TV deal and the Clippers selling for 2 Billion.

Honestly I say let the players all go start their own league and then let the owners bring in other ball players for cheaper and see who really wins.

curtcocaine
11-13-2014, 12:28 PM
She wants to remove the cap so the almighty Lakers can return to the top.

TrueFan420
11-13-2014, 01:38 PM
She wants to gets ride of rookie caps... all one has to do is take a look at the NFL to see how that worked out.

ILLUSIONIST^248
11-13-2014, 01:50 PM
She wants to remove the cap so the almighty Lakers can return to the top.well be back soon enough

JasonJohnHorn
11-13-2014, 01:57 PM
Nothing new here. Just posturing.

The bottom line here is that players are important because they are the product. Owners are important because they put up the venue and organize the revenue stream. Both are equally important, and no, not all owners are equal. It is misleading to suggest that any business man can come in a run the team and things won't change. There is a reason the Lakers suck now and that the Knicks haven't won a championship in 40 years.

There is a reason that teams aren't making money despite the fact that this is a billion dollar business.

the NBA needs the best business men/women and best players to make the league work. If all business men were created equal, pretty much every team in the league would have won a championship by now with the exception of the Raptors, Grizzlies, and Hornets, because those franchises haven't been around long enough. But obviously that is not the case.

Should players get more? Is the system working? Are there problems? The answers are obvious. Some players should make less, some more, the systems works and it fails, and yes, there are problems.

What is the best system? Who knows.


Do the players and owners make what they deserve? It frankly seems that both are overpaid when you compare what they do to a truck driver, or a doctor, or a dock worker, but at the same time, the market has put them in a better position than most, so they make a significant amount more.

When millionaires and billionaires argue over who should be getting the lion's share, I don't really feel the need to put myself on one side or the other. I understand the need for the conflict, otherwise guys like Sterling would pull in a billion and guys like CP3 would be making 500 000. But at the same time, when both are making millions...I don't think its worth crying about.

ThuglifeJ
11-13-2014, 02:00 PM
I mean SOME very few players don't get paid enough (Lebron, Kobe in the past, etc). But they are they very few that fall into that. But really, this is going to be a big fight. Players are going to point out the TV deal and the Clippers selling for 2 Billion.

Honestly I say let the players all go start their own league and then let the owners bring in other ball players for cheaper and see who really wins.

Ah in comparison to other players who are getting max? Sure. But as good as they are at this sport..what they are actually doing as a profession (ignoring total league/team revenue), which is playing basketball for 9 months of the year- with fame, only working for 4 hours a night (practice/game), maintaining a minimal stress level, traveling to each premier city of the US, doing what one does in leisure time as a job..

They should be making less than a teacher honestly, if pro sports didn't rake in so much money.

Pretty sure it used to be that way a long time ago. Players made small salaries. Makes sense too, its a ****ing game were talking about.

beasted86
11-13-2014, 02:02 PM
Im all for all of these concepts.

The players need to stream roll the next CBA, it will improve basketball, and most likely kill off the weak franchises that needed to go anyway.

All of the regulations in place aren't to help the players, it's to protect the owner's own stupidityand aid in the unneeded expansion and thinning out of the talent pool.

IndyRealist
11-13-2014, 02:21 PM
and there would be no league if not for these rich billionaires to build arenas, form a league, and make it possible for a game to be a profession.

STFU players, you get paid enough money. There are no other jobs in the world outside pro sports where an IQ of 75 can let you make $10 million a year.

Shorten the season? That means less revenue, meaning less for your players bud.

I go back to the Rose thread as well. Damaging your body? Get over it, you play a pro contact sport, and get paid to damage your body. If you don't want to risk injuries, go be a painter or work at Walmart.

The whole, "if you are 18, you can die in war, but can't play in the NBA" is stupid. We are at the most peaceful time in American history in a landslide. Better chance they are killed in a drive by than in war.

God, the sense of entitlement nowadays, not just in basketball, but in general, is alarming

Actually, taxpayers build arenas, the owners just collect the revenue from them.

Goose17
11-13-2014, 02:28 PM
Im all for all of these concepts.

The players need to stream roll the next CBA, it will improve basketball, and most likely kill off the weak franchises that needed to go anyway.

All of the regulations in place aren't to help the players, it's to protect the owner's own stupidityand aid in the unneeded expansion and thinning out of the talent pool.

Or you could limit every team to one max contract player breeding competitiveness and making every franchise relevant instead of having all the great players on the same teams leaving just 3 or 4 teams in the league with real title chances.

Up until 2005 Miami was one of those crappy teams.

If anything they would get rid of the younger teams like Miami first and keep the originals. ;)

Goose17
11-13-2014, 02:31 PM
Getting rid of the rookie cap is a noob move. What is she thinking? 18/19 year olds being handed millions will turn out badly 9 times out of 10.

mike_noodles
11-13-2014, 02:44 PM
I feel like this woman is out of touch.

Also, does anyone know who pays the expenses of everything else? For example, everything from MRI machines and hot tubs for the team to the hot dog vendor and the ball boy? Is that money taken out off the top before the 50-50 split? The reason I wonder is that if all of that stuff has to covered by the owners, then guess who will really be paying for it, because the owners are still gonna try to make theirs.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2014, 03:03 PM
Actually, taxpayers build arenas, the owners just collect the revenue from them.

well true, but the league needs billionaires who are business men, to run each and every team. Without them, there would be no league.

If the players don't think they need the owners, they can always try to build a league to compete against the NBA on their own. With an average IQ being that of a college freshman (at best), good luck fellas!

Hawkeye15
11-13-2014, 03:04 PM
Getting rid of the rookie cap is a noob move. What is she thinking? 18/19 year olds being handed millions will turn out badly 9 times out of 10.

yes, so much yes to this.

curtcocaine
11-13-2014, 03:11 PM
well be back soon enough
No doubt

curtcocaine
11-13-2014, 03:21 PM
well be back soon enough
I hope within the next few so Kobe can get 1 more.

truplayer199
11-13-2014, 03:30 PM
I don't agree with a word this woman said. This is classical left-wing language. "Why don't we have the owners play half the games?" Roberts said, speaking in her Harlem office to ESPN The Magazine. "There would be no money if not for the players." This is as irrelevant as it is stupid. This could be flipped around; there would be no money if not for the "fat cats". "Thirty more owners can come in, and nothing will change. These guys [the players] go? The game will change. So let's stop pretending." Another meaningless statement that has little to no basis in reality. Current NBA players would decide to forego millions and pursue what exactly?

"It doesn't make sense to me that you're suddenly eligible and ready to make money when you're 20, but not when you're 19, not when you're 18," she said. "I suspect that the association will agree that this is not going to be one that they will agree to easily. There is no other profession that says that you're old enough to die but not old enough to work." What is she talking about?? What player has died playing in the NBA?

curtcocaine
11-13-2014, 03:43 PM
I don't agree with a word this woman said. This is classical left-wing language. "Why don't we have the owners play half the games?" Roberts said, speaking in her Harlem office to ESPN The Magazine. "There would be no money if not for the players." This is as irrelevant as it is stupid. This could be flipped around; there would be no money if not for the "fat cats". "Thirty more owners can come in, and nothing will change. These guys [the players] go? The game will change. So let's stop pretending." Another meaningless statement that has little to no basis in reality. Current NBA players would decide to forego millions and pursue what exactly?

"It doesn't make sense to me that you're suddenly eligible and ready to make money when you're 20, but not when you're 19, not when you're 18," she said. "I suspect that the association will agree that this is not going to be one that they will agree to easily. There is no other profession that says that you're old enough to die but not old enough to work." What is she talking about?? What player has died playing in the NBA?
Politics. Gotta put 20 on a 10 aka ebola.

Vinylman
11-13-2014, 04:02 PM
NBA player salaries are all about trade-offs...

guaranteed contracts are the biggest culprit because the vast majority of players would never see the end of their contracts if they weren't guaranteed. But the players want that

rookie pay scale is also a trade off for higher pay for experienced players that's why the players were all over it...

The only real argument is how much of the pie the players should get... that is what negotiations are for.

I just hope the guaranteed contracts go away, no max pay, and a hard cap is installed... it's the easiest way to eliminate super teams.

Kevj77
11-13-2014, 05:23 PM
The NBA is the entertainment business. Professional sports is a product that isn't just all about the players. There is a lot going on behind the scenes that makes it possible. Without the best athletes the product would suffer and the NBA needs savvy businessmen to market and grow the brand or the player wouldn't be making what they do. It is a partnership they all deserve to get paid the question is how to divide the pie. It's a big pie too.

IndyRealist
11-13-2014, 05:35 PM
I really have no idea why the NBAPA would want to get rid of max salaries. The players, as a group, make the same money no matter what: 50% of BRI. When one player makes a huge salary, that ends up taking away from the rest of the players. There is no reason the Matt Bonners and Avery Bradleys of the league should vote for that.

lamzoka
11-13-2014, 05:50 PM
I'll trade my job with these NBA players any day for a fraction of their salaries.

beasted86
11-13-2014, 08:52 PM
Or you could limit every team to one max contract player breeding competitiveness and making every franchise relevant instead of having all the great players on the same teams leaving just 3 or 4 teams in the league with real title chances.

Up until 2005 Miami was one of those crappy teams.

If anything they would get rid of the younger teams like Miami first and keep the originals. ;)

Miami has had good success in a relatively young 27 years due to a smart owner and great GM, with a decent market. Micky taking ownership from his Dad and recruiting Pat Riley from New York made all the difference.

And I don't even count championships as only barometer for success. I count winning seasons vs. losing seasons. Playoff seasons vs. non-playoff seasons... And most importantly, is it the "thing to do" in the local market. Is it a basketball town? Do fans enjoy the games and atmosphere even when you aren't a title contender? I can think of about 4 teams to get rid of right now based on this paragraph because I define them as failures. That's what would make the NBA better and the talent pool richer.

phantasyyy
11-13-2014, 09:14 PM
Miami has had good success in a relatively young 27 years due to a smart owner and great GM, with a decent market. Micky taking ownership from his Dad and recruiting Pat Riley from New York made all the difference.

And I don't even count championships as only barometer for success. I count winning seasons vs. losing seasons. Playoff seasons vs. non-playoff seasons... And most importantly, is it the "thing to do" in the local market. Is it a basketball town? Do fans enjoy the games and atmosphere even when you aren't a title contender? I can think of about 4 teams to get rid of right now based on this paragraph because I define them as failures. That's what would make the NBA better and the talent pool richer.

for sh1ts and giggles, who would be your 4 teams to get rid of..

2-ONE-5
11-13-2014, 09:26 PM
for sh1ts and giggles, who would be your 4 teams to get rid of..

yea id love to hear this too.

Miami didnt even have a great atmosphere in the Finals all those years!

beasted86
11-13-2014, 09:36 PM
for sh1ts and giggles, who would be your 4 teams to get rid of..

Charlotte, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Memphis

2-ONE-5
11-13-2014, 09:54 PM
lol wow Memphis really??? Also Charlotte has finally started to go in the right direction, same goes for the Bucks and Wolves

beasted86
11-13-2014, 09:54 PM
yea id love to hear this too.

Miami didnt even have a great atmosphere in the Finals all those years!
I know I'm speaking with a troll Miami hater, but how do you quantify atmosphere tangibly?

Most of the time when people use words like "atmosphere" they are speaking in intangibles that are subjective to their own bias. The teams I mentioned have tangibly low attendance figures, regularly have opponent fans droning over the sounds of the home team fans and a high number of color contrasting the playoff free shirt give aways (Atlanta seemingly suffers from this the worst of all teams even though they didn't make my list), have terrible all time win to loss season ratios, have a far greater number of non playoff seasons than playoff seasons, and have repeatedly failed at the top of the draft and in free agency. They aren't exciting teams to watch locally or nationally for the past 20+ seasons (if active as long anyway).

2-ONE-5
11-13-2014, 10:43 PM
now i troll the heat? i rarely talk about them. but when your fans dont show up to playoff/finals games til the 2nd quarter they are frauds (we knew that prior anyway) or when they leave early when the game seems out of reach which also happend in the finals.

zookman65
11-13-2014, 10:53 PM
Ah in comparison to other players who are getting max? Sure. But as good as they are at this sport..what they are actually doing as a profession (ignoring total league/team revenue), which is playing basketball for 9 months of the year- with fame, only working for 4 hours a night (practice/game), maintaining a minimal stress level, traveling to each premier city of the US, doing what one does in leisure time as a job..

They should be making less than a teacher honestly, if pro sports didn't rake in so much money.

Pretty sure it used to be that way a long time ago. Players made small salaries. Makes sense too, its a ****ing game were talking about.

I am glad you are the arbiter of free market salaries and what different jobs should pay according to your value system. The players deserve whatever they can get in negotiations and bargaining with owners. Likewise owners deserve what they can squeeze out of players. As far as the salaries are concerned what do any of you care what the players make? The bottom line is that it is a lot harder to replace them at the same performance level than any of us at our current jobs otherwise we (the collective we) would be making millions also. Lets face it most of us are jealous because they posses a singularly rare skill that society has determined is valuable. Sorry truck drivers, teachers, construction workers, firemen etc..

zookman65
11-13-2014, 11:00 PM
I feel like this woman is out of touch.

Also, does anyone know who pays the expenses of everything else? For example, everything from MRI machines and hot tubs for the team to the hot dog vendor and the ball boy? Is that money taken out off the top before the 50-50 split? The reason I wonder is that if all of that stuff has to covered by the owners, then guess who will really be paying for it, because the owners are still gonna try to make theirs.

Just like any other business. Labor and operating expenses are part of the equation. Owners know this as it is part of the risk calculus when buying into the NBA business.

zookman65
11-13-2014, 11:37 PM
well true, but the league needs billionaires who are business men, to run each and every team. Without them, there would be no league.

If the players don't think they need the owners, they can always try to build a league to compete against the NBA on their own. With an average IQ being that of a college freshman (at best), good luck fellas!

These are fricking stupid arguments. They each need each other for gods sake. Yes the players would suck at owning a team but the 2nd tier players that owners would bring in would suck to watch. Weird that most on this board have linear thinking... Players evil, Owners good.. geez

beasted86
11-14-2014, 02:13 PM
now i troll the heat? i rarely talk about them. but when your fans dont show up to playoff/finals games til the 2nd quarter they are frauds (we knew that prior anyway) or when they leave early when the game seems out of reach which also happend in the finals.

Miami is super laid back, nobody cares about start times. But during the Finals the arena was full to start all the games. Feel free to post video evidence of a first quarter play during the Finals to make your case.

And the arena was full during the Finals, even in the supposed Game 6 where everyone was making fun of the fanbase... a very small number of fans left early which happens win or loss. Or are you telling me I used Photoshop on this picture?
http://cdn.nextimpulsesports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/131217224801-shot-ehrman-single-image-cut.jpg

I'm looking for tangible evidence not bias. Lets say 5% of a 21k arena (which calculates to 1000+ fans) left early, why would you try and hold that against the 95% that stayed anyhow?

Like I said, I don't expect anyone to create tangible measurements to "atmosphere".

2-ONE-5
11-14-2014, 02:26 PM
lol i love how you keep trying to use big words, its cute.

beasted86
11-14-2014, 02:47 PM
lol i love how you keep trying to use big words, its cute.

I don't know what words to use to dumb the discussion down for you. I apologize.

Gibby23
11-14-2014, 02:49 PM
lol i love how you keep trying to use big words, its cute.

Tangible, and measurements are big word for you? How else would you say tangible? What are you, 7?

Gibby23
11-14-2014, 02:50 PM
I don't know what words to use to dumb the discussion down for you. I apologize.

Say sorry. Apologize is too big a word.

beasted86
11-14-2014, 03:04 PM
Tangible, and measurements are big word for you? How else would you say tangible? What are you, 7?

Lack of literacy is rising in the US and costs us $60 billion in production every year. Those are facts. So, it's not surprising anyone might say I'm using words too big.

2-ONE-5
11-14-2014, 03:14 PM
Channel 10 reporter Victor Oquendo, who witnessed the commotion of fans trying to re-enter as he set up for a live shot outside the arena, tweeted Tuesday night:“I was born and raised in Miami. I used to hate the national perspective against Heat fans but I can’t fight it anymore. Now I’m watching horrible, drunk, quitting fans desperately trying to get back in. This is madness.”

Danielle Calixto, who was sitting in the lower level behind the basket, said she watched overtime surrounded by dozens of empty seats. She said she was disappointed with the lack of support but not completely surprised because she had witnessed early dismissals during other games this postseason. “You don’t see that in other NBA stadiums,” she said. “They need to become better Heat fans.”


Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article1952613.html#storylink=cpy

2-ONE-5
11-14-2014, 03:19 PM
Tangible, and measurements are big word for you? How else would you say tangible? What are you, 7?

lol the word wasnt needed, it was forced in there for whatever reason

Gibby23
11-14-2014, 03:23 PM
Channel 10 reporter Victor Oquendo, who witnessed the commotion of fans trying to re-enter as he set up for a live shot outside the arena, tweeted Tuesday night:“I was born and raised in Miami. I used to hate the national perspective against Heat fans but I can’t fight it anymore. Now I’m watching horrible, drunk, quitting fans desperately trying to get back in. This is madness.”

Danielle Calixto, who was sitting in the lower level behind the basket, said she watched overtime surrounded by dozens of empty seats. She said she was disappointed with the lack of support but not completely surprised because she had witnessed early dismissals during other games this postseason. “You don’t see that in other NBA stadiums,” she said. “They need to become better Heat fans.”


Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article1952613.html#storylink=cpy

With all that, ownership stepped up, delivered 3 championships and 5 finals trips. They lost some profits along the way, but got the rings. What has the Sixers brass done to reward a diehard fanbase?

2-ONE-5
11-14-2014, 03:36 PM
getting ready to break ground on the most advanced, state of the art practice facility/campus in the league cositng something like 82 mil. Oh and a commitment to not be a mid pack team with no shot at contending for the next decade. All is good in Sixer land my friend, even after last nights debacle.

2-ONE-5
11-14-2014, 03:37 PM
wait hold on, they won rings but LOST money so that right there tells you everything you need to know and proves my point. soooo thanks

Gibby23
11-14-2014, 03:38 PM
getting ready to break ground on the most advanced, state of the art practice facility/campus in the league cositng something like 82 mil. Oh and a commitment to not be a mid pack team with no shot at contending for the next decade. All is good in Sixer land my friend, even after last nights debacle.

What do you get from a new practice facility? lol. They haven't contended for a while, and even with all this tanking, haven't gotten a super star type player out of the drafts yet.

Gibby23
11-14-2014, 03:40 PM
wait hold on, they won rings but LOST money so that right there tells you everything you need to know and proves my point. soooo thanks

I said they may have. Even if they did, atleast they didn't steal from the fans by putting crap on the floor for the last decade likr the Sixers have.

2-ONE-5
11-14-2014, 03:44 PM
What do you get from a new practice facility? lol. They haven't contended for a while, and even with all this tanking, haven't gotten a super star type player out of the drafts yet.

lol yea bcuz the practice facility is just a few new courts and showers. All what tanking? you mean the rebuilding that has gone on for under 100 games to this point. We dont have a star yet but hell if he havent drafted players with serious potential that range all the way to super star. keep trying though, maybe throw some big words in next time

2-ONE-5
11-14-2014, 03:45 PM
actually forget it this is pointless and has nothing to do with the topic and have a very misguided view of what has gone on in Philly the past 12 years. peace out

Gibby23
11-14-2014, 03:48 PM
lol yea bcuz the practice facility is just a few new courts and showers. All what tanking? you mean the rebuilding that has gone on for under 100 games to this point. We dont have a star yet but hell if he havent drafted players with serious potential that range all the way to super star. keep trying though, maybe throw some big words in next time

What SUperstar will come play there? Philadelphia doesn't have a Lebron waiting to come back to play on a team that rebuilt by tanking. Just a garbage all around. They have no idea what they are doing and it shows. You can say this will happen or they will contend in a certain amount of time, but they haven't shown anything that shows they will, just a bad track record and managment.

Gibby23
11-14-2014, 03:49 PM
actually forget it this is pointless and has nothing to do with the topic and have a very misguided view of what has gone on in Philly the past 12 years. peace out

They tried to rebuild and sucked and now they suck and are trying to rebuild.

beasted86
11-14-2014, 04:39 PM
They tried to rebuild and sucked and now they suck and are trying to rebuild.

I laughed out loud.

As far as interview recount ofwho stayed and left, as I asked before, did I Photoshop that image? Google search Ray Allen Game 6 and there are hundreds of photos of that shot from all angles so you can see much of the lower bowl after the fans supposedly left thinking the game was over. Where are the dozens of seats? And even if true, what are dozens in a 21k arena? As I said, if 1000 people left, that's surely amounts to "dozens" for the upper and lower bowls, but how does that represent the majority, and can 1000 fans make that much difference in said "atmosphere" anyway?

beasted86
11-14-2014, 04:48 PM
As far as Philly goes though I believe in that market under the right management and circumstances, but I simply don't believe in their current owner or GM. They seem to be drafting players based on physical build and athletics rather than skills that complement each other. Building that way will take longer and force them into tough decisions whether to extend a guy who may or may not fit the long term picture.