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View Full Version : The truth about LeBron back to Cavs: They wanted Miami to suck



beasted86
11-09-2014, 07:36 PM
Here is the truth, whether you want to accept it or not. This has nothing to do with me being a Miami fan. This has everything to do with common sense and rational logic. So, before you jump to a hasty conclusion about this telling of truth, you should at least listen to it in its entirety and absorb the facts that I will present to you. If you think this is too long to read, this intro/synopsis tells basically what this is about:

Intro/synopsis:
LeBron helped the Cavs "play defense" against the HEAT. He made his decision to leave weeks before it had gone public. The Cavs could have come away possibly keeping Jack, Zeller, Hawes, or any number of other combinations adding outside free agents with more money to spend by working with Miami in a sign and trade, but willingly chose the alternative to have a weaker team in hopes of killing the HEAT and getting their draft pick that would be unprotected in 2 years if the HEAT were a bottom 10 team. He was willing to partake in the plan because he felt disrespected by Riley while playing at a GOAT level on a discounted contract winning the organization championships. Gilbert wanted to watch the HEAT fall from grace just as his team did


Full retelling of the truth:
Lets start with a general timeline of events with sources, and facts with quotes from real people what happened:

June 23rd, 2014
James' wife sends out a message that says; “Home sweet Home the countdown is real #330.” (source (http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/06/lebron_james_wife_savannah_hea.html))
July 5th, 2014
-According to Sports Illustrated managing editor Chris Stone, LeBron James' people reached out to Lee Jenkins about the essay of his decision (source (http://deadspin.com/who-actually-got-the-lebron-james-scoop-1604853768))
July 6th, 2014
-According to Dion Waiters, he stated that James reached out to him through a phone call 5 days before his official announcement. Although he did not specifically state his intentions, he was told to be ready. (source (http://triangleoffense.com/news/dion-waiters-says-he-knew-lebron-was-coming-home-days-before-his-announcement/))
July 9th, 2014
-Cavaliers trade Jarrett Jack and Tyler Zeller to the Nets in a preemptive move to clear cap space for a max contract offer (source (http://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/09/cavs-trade-jack-nets-cap-space))
-Chris Sheridan states with certainty, that LeBron James is "100%" going back to Cleveland (source (http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/07/10/chris-sheridan-live-on-kiley-booms-lebron-james-is-100-coming-back-to-cleveland/))
July 11th, 2014
-James officially announces his decision to the public. (source (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203027/lebron-james-says-returning-cleveland-cavaliers))


When exactly do you think LeBron made his decision and why?

LeBron made his decision clearly weeks before the final meeting with the Miami HEAT. He was clearly upset with Pat Riley's public address telling James he was pissed at the idea of him leaving, and to "stay if you've got the guts (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/heat/2014/06/19/pat-riley-news-conference-lebron-james-dwyane-wade-free-agency-miami/10877283/)" after the Finals loss. Sometime between that June 20th press conference by Riley, he decided with his family to go back to Cleveland, and his wife accidentally leaked the idea 3 days later June 23rd. His decision this early is further evidenced by his complete shut down of communication between him and Riley throughout free agency. Although James stated in his exit press conference the HEAT need to "get better at every position" (http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article1966724.html), he chose not to communicate with the man doing the rebuilding. Riley stated that throughout free agency from July 1st until his official announcement, "I sent him a lot of emails and texts, I was communicating a lot with him. No response." (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-lebron-james-s073014-story.html) With the apparent decline of Wade's health, the aging veterans on the verge of retirement, and the disbelief the HEAT had the financial ability to add legitimate impact players while barely affording to keep the core, and the Cavs holding the cards to swing big trades, it was the perfect storm.

Okay, even if I believe your version of the facts, so what? He can take however long he wants to make a decision. Why do you think he wanted Miami to suck? What is the motivation?

The Miami HEAT headed into free agency with an NBA record $55M in cap space (http://www.365rundown.com/miami-heat-create-nba-record-55m-cap-space/) and had flexibility to create more. There were a number of free agents available to sign and improve the team at critical positions of need. LeBron along with his inner circle and Cavs organization wanted the market to dry up. With Chris Bosh a pending free agent, his inner circle believed that by waiting until July 11th by then he would surely take the offer from the Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203334/houston-rockets-believe-chris-bosh-sign-soon), and leave the HEAT holding the pieces. The motivation is that the Cavs at the time owned the HEAT's 2015 NBA draft pick with only a top 10 protection (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/11/5891137/lebron-james-cavaliers-draft-pick-miami-heat). The prospect that he could build a contender with the Cavs, while simultaneously eliminating a proven veteran threat, and possibly adding another high level rookie prospect next summer as icing to the cake, was just an enticing strategy him and his people. The Cavs would (as now seen) have some growing pains as they work to gain chemistry and teach some of their guys the sacrifice of playing winning basketball, and have their head coach adjust to the NBA. If they could eliminate a team they "might" have to go through in an already weak Eastern Conference, it would have been great for them, and also give Dan Gilbert some added vindication watching the HEAT free fall just as his team did 4 years earlier. Gilbert and the Cavs wanted Riley and the HEAT to feel just as stupid as he felt about putting their hopes in keeping James and other free agents, only to see them walk out the door and go from contender to laughing stock in one quick swipe.

So you expect me to believe he and the Cavs planned all this out to "stick it" to the HEAT and "possibly" add a rookie? Really?


Yes, because the details are clearer when you factor in the details of his official departure and signing. Within 24 hours of making his decision to join the Cavs, Chris Bosh recommits to the HEAT, and Luol Deng also committed to the HEAT. In case some of you forgot, Deng played for the Cavs last year. LeBron James was leaving the HEAT to join the Cavs. Perfect chance to set up a sign and trade, right? Wrong. The Cavs had the opportunity to get the $5.3M mid-level exception as well as $2.2M bi-annual exception, and further get to keep the Bird Rights to free agents such as Spencer Hawes if they instead signed and traded Deng for James. That's even disregarding the idea that if the Cavs were open to any sign and trade option at all, they may not have hadto trade Jarrett Jack or Tyler Zeller. They couldn't keep all three of Jack, Zeller, Hawes, but could have kept one or two depending on the timing. Instead of trading with Miami for James they instead ended up with only the $2.7M room exception (Mike Miller). The idea was that if they traded with the HEAT, they may be giving them a trade exception (depending on James and Deng's salary gap), but the real issue was that it would allow them to keep the Bird Rights to all the players they themselves were trying to leech away (Allen, Jones, Birdman). Even if they had the mid-level and bi-annual, that probably wouldn't be enough. Although they could offer up to $5.3M to one player, the HEAT could essentially overpay anything they wanted to Allen, Jones, or Birdman "just because" and keep them away from Cleveland.

In conclusion:

I just felt like I wanted to tell it from my perspective how I saw things. I expect this thread to be locked, moved, or overrun by trolls within 24 hours, I don't expect more than 5% of logical responses from non-biased posters who don't hate James or the Miami HEAT. The purpose was to tell about what type of person LeBron James is and how he treated the team that helped him get over the championship hump. It's also to give the side of why some HEAT fans now dislike LeBron, and aren't simply "salty". I have never been angry that he left, but I am annoyed at how he left, and I wanted to present some facts of the events why I believe some still are angry. I will always respect the 4 years he played for my favorite team. Speaking for myself, it is much easier to move past my dislike for James because of Riley's great job at picking up the pieces and delivering a team I can still enjoy. But the Cavs are now a rival/disliked team just like the Knicks, Bulls, and Celtics have been a rival/disliked team as a HEAT fan the last 20 years.

KnickNyKnick
11-09-2014, 07:40 PM
:facepalm:

Jamiecballer
11-09-2014, 07:43 PM
This bothers you why

Yagyu+
11-09-2014, 07:44 PM
I...just like the...Bulls...

Go Bulls.

More-Than-Most
11-09-2014, 07:53 PM
Illuminati

Bostonjorge
11-09-2014, 07:54 PM
I agree with you. Heat suck and I forgot they was a team in Miami.

FriedTofuz
11-09-2014, 07:57 PM
Oh great, conspiracy theories!

You people are taking over youtube, I see these all the time.
Anyone can overanalyze a situation and add in some persuasion skills to make it seem believable.

P&GRealist
11-09-2014, 08:02 PM
Here is the truth, whether you want to accept it or not. This has nothing to do with me being a Miami fan. This has everything to do with common sense and rational logic. So, before you jump to a hasty conclusion about this telling of truth, you should at least listen to it in its entirety and absorb the facts that I will present to you. If you think this is too long to read, this intro/synopsis tells basically what this is about:

Intro/synopsis:
LeBron helped the Cavs "play defense" against the HEAT. He made his decision to leave weeks before it had gone public. The Cavs could have come away possibly keeping Jack, Zeller, Hawes, or any number of other combinations adding outside free agents with more money to spend by working with Miami in a sign and trade, but willingly chose the alternative to have a weaker team in hopes of killing the HEAT and getting their draft pick that would be unprotected in 2 years if the HEAT were a bottom 10 team. He was willing to partake in the plan because he felt disrespected by Riley while playing at a GOAT level on a discounted contract winning the organization championships. Gilbert wanted to watch the HEAT fall from grace just as his team did


Full retelling of the truth:
Lets start with a general timeline of events with sources, and facts with quotes from real people what happened:

June 23rd, 2014
James' wife sends out a message that says; “Home sweet Home the countdown is real #330.” (source (http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/06/lebron_james_wife_savannah_hea.html))
July 5th, 2014
-According to Sports Illustrated managing editor Chris Stone, LeBron James' people reached out to Lee Jenkins about the essay of his decision (source (http://deadspin.com/who-actually-got-the-lebron-james-scoop-1604853768))
July 6th, 2014
-According to Dion Waiters, he stated that James reached out to him through a phone call 5 days before his official announcement. Although he did not specifically state his intentions, he was told to be ready. (source (http://triangleoffense.com/news/dion-waiters-says-he-knew-lebron-was-coming-home-days-before-his-announcement/))
July 9th, 2014
-Cavaliers trade Jarrett Jack and Tyler Zeller to the Nets in a preemptive move to clear cap space for a max contract offer (source (http://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/09/cavs-trade-jack-nets-cap-space))
-Chris Sheridan states with certainty, that LeBron James is "100%" going back to Cleveland (source (http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/07/10/chris-sheridan-live-on-kiley-booms-lebron-james-is-100-coming-back-to-cleveland/))
July 11th, 2014
-James officially announces his decision to the public. (source (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203027/lebron-james-says-returning-cleveland-cavaliers))


When exactly do you think LeBron made his decision and why?

LeBron made his decision clearly weeks before the final meeting with the Miami HEAT. He was clearly upset with Pat Riley's public address telling James he was pissed at the idea of him leaving, and to "stay if you've got the guts (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/heat/2014/06/19/pat-riley-news-conference-lebron-james-dwyane-wade-free-agency-miami/10877283/)" after the Finals loss. Sometime between that June 20th press conference by Riley, he decided with his family to go back to Cleveland, and his wife accidentally leaked the idea 3 days later June 23rd. His decision this early is further evidenced by his complete shut down of communication between him and Riley throughout free agency. Although James stated in his exit press conference the HEAT need to "get better at every position" (http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article1966724.html), he chose not to communicate with the man doing the rebuilding. Riley stated that throughout free agency from July 1st until his official announcement, "I sent him a lot of emails and texts, I was communicating a lot with him. No response." (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-lebron-james-s073014-story.html) With the apparent decline of Wade's health, the aging veterans on the verge of retirement, and the disbelief the HEAT had the financial ability to add legitimate impact players while barely affording to keep the core, and the Cavs holding the cards to swing big trades, it was the perfect storm.

Okay, even if I believe your version of the facts, so what? He can take however long he wants to make a decision. Why do you think he wanted Miami to suck? What is the motivation?

The Miami HEAT headed into free agency with an NBA record $55M in cap space (http://www.365rundown.com/miami-heat-create-nba-record-55m-cap-space/) and had flexibility to create more. There were a number of free agents available to sign and improve the team at critical positions of need. LeBron along with his inner circle and Cavs organization wanted the market to dry up. With Chris Bosh a pending free agent, his inner circle believed that by waiting until July 11th by then he would surely take the offer from the Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203334/houston-rockets-believe-chris-bosh-sign-soon), and leave the HEAT holding the pieces. The motivation is that the Cavs at the time owned the HEAT's 2015 NBA draft pick with only a top 10 protection (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/11/5891137/lebron-james-cavaliers-draft-pick-miami-heat). The prospect that he could build a contender with the Cavs, while simultaneously eliminating a proven veteran threat, and possibly adding another high level rookie prospect next summer as icing to the cake, was just an enticing strategy him and his people. The Cavs would (as now seen) have some growing pains as they work to gain chemistry and teach some of their guys the sacrifice of playing winning basketball, and have their head coach adjust to the NBA. If they could eliminate a team they "might" have to go through in an already weak Eastern Conference, it would have been great for them, and also give Dan Gilbert some added vindication watching the HEAT free fall just as his team did 4 years earlier. Gilbert and the Cavs wanted Riley and the HEAT to feel just as stupid as he felt about putting their hopes in keeping James and other free agents, only to see them walk out the door and go from contender to laughing stock in one quick swipe.

So you expect me to believe he and the Cavs planned all this out to "stick it" to the HEAT and "possibly" add a rookie? Really?


Yes, because the details are clearer when you factor in the details of his official departure and signing. Within 24 hours of making his decision to join the Cavs, Chris Bosh recommits to the HEAT, and Luol Deng also committed to the HEAT. In case some of you forgot, Deng played for the Cavs last year. LeBron James was leaving the HEAT to join the Cavs. Perfect chance to set up a sign and trade, right? Wrong. The Cavs had the opportunity to get the $5.3M mid-level exception as well as $2.2M bi-annual exception, and further get to keep the Bird Rights to free agents such as Spencer Hawes if they instead signed and traded Deng for James. That's even disregarding the idea that if the Cavs were open to any sign and trade option at all, they may not have hadto trade Jarrett Jack or Tyler Zeller. They couldn't keep all three of Jack, Zeller, Hawes, but could have kept one or two depending on the timing. Instead of trading with Miami for James they instead ended up with only the $2.7M room exception (Mike Miller). The idea was that if they traded with the HEAT, they may be giving them a trade exception (depending on James and Deng's salary gap), but the real issue was that it would allow them to keep the Bird Rights to all the players they themselves were trying to leech away (Allen, Jones, Birdman). Even if they had the mid-level and bi-annual, that probably wouldn't be enough. Although they could offer up to $5.3M to one player, the HEAT could essentially overpay anything they wanted to Allen, Jones, or Birdman "just because" and keep them away from Cleveland.

In conclusion:

I just felt like I wanted to tell it from my perspective how I saw things. I expect this thread to be locked, moved, or overrun by trolls within 24 hours, I don't expect more than 5% of logical responses from non-biased posters who don't hate James or the Miami HEAT. The purpose was to tell about what type of person LeBron James is and how he treated the team that helped him get over the championship hump. It's also to give the side of why some HEAT fans now dislike LeBron, and aren't simply "salty". I have never been angry that he left, but I am annoyed at how he left, and I wanted to present some facts of the events why I believe some still are angry. I will always respect the 4 years he played for my favorite team. Speaking for myself, it is much easier to move past my dislike for James because of Riley's great job at picking up the pieces and delivering a team I can still enjoy. But the Cavs are now a rival/disliked team just like the Knicks, Bulls, and Celtics have been a rival/disliked team as a HEAT fan the last 20 years.

I understand where you're coming from, and you may be right.

But you know the old adage: You reap what you sow.


Your 3 amigo buddies colluded all the way back to 2008 to play together. LeBron before the 2009-2010 season said that he would change his jersey number to #6 in the 2010-2011 season (that's because 23 was already retired in Miami w/ Riles honoring MJ).

Riles, Wade, Bosh, Bron, Rich Paul, Maverick Carter and them boys knew exactly what they were doing for months and maybe even years leading up to the decision.


I hate to break it to ya bud, but you just got a taste of your own medicine really. That's all.


LeBron has and will always be about his own brand and that's it. He doesn't care who he ****s over in the process. Even if is a rookie like Andrew Wiggins. And he is loved for this.

Don't worry, in a few yrs, he'll treat Love, Kyrie and Gilbert (again) like trash and probably come back to you guys.

beasted86
11-09-2014, 08:17 PM
I understand where you're coming from, and you may be right.

But you know the old adage: You reap what you sow.


Your 3 amigo buddies colluded all the way back to 2008 to play together. LeBron before the 2009-2010 season said that he would change his jersey number to #6 in the 2010-2011 season (that's because 23 was already retired in Miami w/ Riles honoring MJ).

Riles, Wade, Bosh, Bron, Rich Paul, Maverick Carter and them boys knew exactly what they were doing for months and maybe even years leading up to the decision.


I hate to break it to ya bud, but you just got a taste of your own medicine really. That's all.


LeBron has and will always be about his own brand and that's it. He doesn't care who he ****s over in the process. Even if is a rookie like Andrew Wiggins. And he is loved for this.

Don't worry, in a few yrs, he'll treat Love, Kyrie and Gilbert (again) like trash and probably come back to you guys.

I started this thread with linear logic, and rational thinking in mind, so that's what I'm continuing with, so I can't buy this blind, unrealistic scenario like you are suggesting. If you believe these things, point out some facts, because your one fact is false. They HEAT haven't retired 23 (nor Dan Marino's 13). The team never had a ceremony or other to retire these numbers. They are simply jerseys that are hung on a corner wall to honor these players. Mike Miller and Shabazz Napier have both gone on to wear #13.

I also refuse to believe he premeditated his decision either time. If the HEAT won the championship last year, there is 0% chance he leaves. If the Cavs in 2010 won the championship, there is 0% chance he leaves. I hope you can agree with these clearly rational statements. So with those two statements in mind, it is impossible for him to have colluded or planned it out in advance. I would more likely to chalk that up to "keeping his options open".

Even in hindsight, the only detail I can think of that tied him to joining the HEAT was he and his agent joining the same agency group with Wade and Bosh from around February if I remember correctly, but even still that doesn't stand up because they could have jointly joined any team in any number of combinations... HEAT, Bulls, Knicks, Nets, Clippers, Mavericks...

Cal827
11-09-2014, 08:25 PM
Well, on the bright side, the Raptors are going to come out of the East, so won't have to worry about LBJ anymore :D

On a serious note, I think PG has the best description of this.

I think that a lot of Lebron's letter is just sheer bull****. The situation in Cleveland was just ideal enough for him to come home and say that he wanted to return ( to me, it kinda seems like he's turning into the Shaq of the past when it comes to attitude, as in wants people to love him). They were a bad team, but had a young all-star PG (borderline) in Irving, cap space, and the assets to trade away to grab another young star player (Love). Of course, he also doesn't want the team that he's apparently with to get stronger (since they are conference rivals). For example, if the Heat were sure that he was going to leave, then they probably would have gone out and added a bunch of depth beforehand. Maybe they would make a more serious pursuit of Lowry or Melo and more front court depth, as some of those guys would sigh without Lebron's signing.

But then again, he did this before when he joined the Heat. At that time, Miami had tons of cap space off the tables, had a superstar in his prime in Wade, and the ability to get someone else (E.g. If they didn't get Bosh, they could have grabbed another all-star, or built around them).

But in the end, there really isn't a point to bother about that anymore. If Cleveland underachieves in his contract, he'll probably bolt again (Hell, Kobe will likely retire in the same year that Lebron's 2yr contract expires, so lets get the conspiracy threads up :laugh: ).

Also, it's not like Miami completely fell off. Bosh did stay with the team, and is looking closer to the guy who was here in his final year. Wade is still an all-star player, and the Heat could very well be a top 2-3 team in the Eastern Conference again (Based on so far, big mosh pit with Chicago, Toronto, Washington, and probably eventually Cleveland).

It would be pretty funny to see Miami get to the Finals again though. Then we can talk about Lebron opting out :laugh:

beasted86
11-09-2014, 08:30 PM
It would be pretty funny to see Miami get to the Finals again though. Then we can talk about Lebron opting out :laugh:

Unlikely. Team would have to just get on fire at the right time. Regardless, I feel that no team in the East is winning the championship. Also, I think LeBron wants to save what legacy he has left and is in Cleveland for the foreseeable future, and definitely past 2 years. He may ask for a trade past 2 year if things aren't going right though.

But touching on the rest of what you said, I said that I have moved past whatever hate on LeBron, even if he leaves again. But I will always dislike the Cavs because of this.

mike_noodles
11-09-2014, 09:18 PM
OP is shocked when Lebron treats Miami the same way he treated Cleveland. Breaking news...

Big Zo
11-09-2014, 09:21 PM
This is all true, but no one will care.

Badluck33
11-09-2014, 09:38 PM
I read the post with Dan Lebatards voice in my head saying

"PURPLE DRANK!"

"THEY GOT ALL 3....

....AT A DISCOUNT!"

Teeboy1487
11-09-2014, 10:01 PM
Then don't watch

Avenged
11-09-2014, 10:03 PM
The illuminati is real.

Miltstar
11-09-2014, 10:27 PM
Everytime I see that Lebron/Cleveland commercial I want to puke... P.S. Miami has a better record than Cleveland and is still a playoff team!

goingfor28
11-09-2014, 10:37 PM
Good lord

Arch Stanton
11-09-2014, 10:49 PM
B]Here is the truth[/B], whether you want to accept it or not. This has nothing to do with me being a Miami fan.



The purpose was to tell about what type of person LeBron James is and how he treated the team that helped him get over the championship hump. It's also to give the side of why some HEAT fans now dislike LeBron, and aren't simply "salty".

So this has nothing to do with you being a Miami fan, yet the purpose of your post was to show how James treated the Heat. The purpose was also to show us why some Heat fans now dislike LeBron, but are not "salty." Sort of seems like a biased post to me? Are you sure it has nothing to do with you being a Miami fan?


This has everything to do with common sense and rational logic. So, before you jump to a hasty conclusion about this telling of truth, you should at least listen to it in its entirety and absorb the facts that I will present to you. If you think this is too long to read, this intro/synopsis tells basically what this is about:


Intro/synopsis:
LeBron helped the Cavs "play defense" against the HEAT. He made his decision to leave weeks before it had gone public.


The Cavs could have come away possibly keeping Jack, Zeller, Hawes

It was believed that the Cavs were looking to get dump Jack during the season because of his horrible play in CLE.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2014/2/19/5428344/nba-trade-rumors-cavaliers-kings-jarrett-jack-jason-thompson

I think he was nursing an injury the entire season, but that is beside the point. I believe they wanted to dump Jack and his contract and they did. It was also believed that Hawes was looking to play on the west coast since he is from Seattle.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/cavs/cavs-mailbag-offseason-priorities-goals-for-next-season-and-revisiting-anthony-bennett-1.480379

The Cavs could of maybe overpaid to keep him, but they did even better, they signed Kevin Love. There is no real belief that Hawes would have stuck around to stay with the Cavs after missing the playoffs. That is why he signed with the Clippers before LeBron returned.


or any number of other combinations adding outside free agents with more money to spend by working with Miami in a sign and trade, but willingly chose the alternative to have a weaker team in hopes of killing the HEAT and getting their draft pick that would be unprotected in 2 years if the HEAT were a bottom 10 team. He was willing to partake in the plan because he felt disrespected by Riley while playing at a GOAT level on a discounted contract winning the organization championships. Gilbert wanted to watch the HEAT fall from grace just as his team did


So the Cavs should have done what Miami did in 2010 by sacrificing first round picks to get LeBron in a S&T? No thanks! I think they made the right decision. One of Miami's weaknesses was the inability to bring in young talent during the 2010-14 tenure, partly because they had sacrificed all those first rounders'. They had no draft picks and lost the flexibility to make moves to improve the youth of the roster.



Full retelling of the truth:
Lets start with a general timeline of events with sources, and facts with quotes from real people what happened:June 23rd, 2014
James' wife sends out a message that says; “Home sweet Home the countdown is real #330.” (source (http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/06/lebron_james_wife_savannah_hea.html))

Means nothing, she is from Akron.


July 5th, 2014
-According to Sports Illustrated managing editor Chris Stone, LeBron James' people reached out to Lee Jenkins about the essay of his decision (source (http://deadspin.com/who-actually-got-the-lebron-james-scoop-1604853768))

Still means nothing and this is a few days before his announcement not 3 weeks.



July 6th, 2014
-According to Dion Waiters, he stated that James reached out to him through a phone call 5 days before his official announcement. Although he did not specifically state his intentions, he was told to be ready. (source (http://triangleoffense.com/news/dion-waiters-says-he-knew-lebron-was-coming-home-days-before-his-announcement/))

Yes, he probably made his decision to come home at this point, but still no factual proof. And it is only a few days before.


July 9th, 2014
-Cavaliers trade Jarrett Jack and Tyler Zeller to the Nets in a preemptive move to clear cap space for a max contract offer (source (http://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/09/cavs-trade-jack-nets-cap-space))


The Rockets had previously agreed to a trade to send center Omer Asik to the New Orleans Pelicans in a move to clear cap space. Asik counts for $8.3 million against the cap next year, but is actually due $14.9 million in salary, thanks to the "poison pill" contract Houston signed him to in the summer of 2012. The Rockets had also been interested in trading point guard Jeremy Lin in order to free up more cap space. The Philadelphia 76ers were reportedly interested, but a more recent report indicated that they feel Lin's contract may be too pricey. ESPN's Marc Stein reported that the Rockets are trying to trade Jeremy Lin to the Lakers.

The Rockets also cleared cap space. Teams clear cap space when they are targeting free agents.



When exactly do you think LeBron made his decision and why?

LeBron made his decision clearly weeks before the final meeting with the Miami HEAT. He was clearly upset with Pat Riley's public address telling James he was pissed at the idea of him leaving, and to "stay if you've got the guts (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/heat/2014/06/19/pat-riley-news-conference-lebron-james-dwyane-wade-free-agency-miami/10877283/)" after the Finals loss. Sometime between that June 20th press conference by Riley, he decided with his family to go back to Cleveland, and his wife accidentally leaked the idea 3 days later June 23rd. His decision this early is further evidenced by his complete shut down of communication between him and Riley throughout free agency. Although James stated in his exit press conference the HEAT need to"get better at every position" (http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article1966724.html), he chose not to communicate with the man doing the rebuilding. Riley stated that throughout free agency from July 1st until his official announcement, "I sent him a lot of emails and texts, I was communicating a lot with him. No response." (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-lebron-james-s073014-story.html) With the apparent decline of Wade's health, the aging veterans on the verge of retirement, and the disbelief the HEAT had the financial ability to add legitimate impact players while barely affording to keep the core, and the Cavs holding the cards to swing big trades, it was the perfect storm.

Again, no legitimate proof that he clearly made his decision weeks before. Just more speculation. This is exactly what happened before he signed with the Heat in 2010 BTW. If Riley is this mastermind, why was he duped the same way the Cavs were duped in 2010?


Okay, even if I believe your version of the facts, so what? He can take however long he wants to make a decision. Why do you think he wanted Miami to suck? What is the motivation?

The Miami HEAT headed into free agency with an NBA record $55M in cap space (http://www.365rundown.com/miami-heat-create-nba-record-55m-cap-space/) and had flexibility to create more. There were a number of free agents available to sign and improve the team at critical positions of need. LeBron along with his inner circle and Cavs organization wanted the market to dry up. With Chris Bosh a pending free agent, his inner circle believed that by waiting until July 11th by then he would surely take the offer from the Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203334/houston-rockets-believe-chris-bosh-sign-soon), and leave the HEAT holding the pieces. The motivation is that the Cavs at the time owned the HEAT's 2015 NBA draft pick with only a top 10 protection (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/11/5891137/lebron-james-cavaliers-draft-pick-miami-heat). The prospect that he could build a contender with the Cavs, while simultaneously eliminating a proven veteran threat, and possibly adding another high level rookie prospect next summer as icing to the cake, was just an enticing strategy him and his people. The Cavs would (as now seen) have some growing pains as they work to gain chemistry and teach some of their guys the sacrifice of playing winning basketball, and have their head coach adjust to the NBA. If they could eliminate a team they "might" have to go through in an already weak Eastern Conference, it would have been great for them, and also give Dan Gilbert some added vindication watching the HEAT free fall just as his team did 4 years earlier. Gilbert and the Cavs wanted Riley and the HEAT to feel just as stupid as he felt about putting their hopes in keeping James and other free agents, only to see them walk out the door and go from contender to laughing stock in one quick swipe.

Good narrative! I still see no legitimate proof that shows LeBron and/or Dan Gilbert and the Cavs wanted the Heat to suck. I can actually buy more into you belief that he decided to leave the Heat weeks before he made his actual decision. But this seems like a stretch to me.


So you expect me to believe he and the Cavs planned all this out to "stick it" to the HEAT and "possibly" add a rookie? Really?


Yes, because the details are clearer when you factor in the details of his official departure and signing. Within 24 hours of making his decision to join the Cavs, Chris Bosh recommits to the HEAT, and Luol Deng also committed to the HEAT. In case some of you forgot, Deng played for the Cavs last year. LeBron James was leaving the HEAT to join the Cavs. Perfect chance to set up a sign and trade, right? Wrong. The Cavs had the opportunity to get the $5.3M mid-level exception as well as $2.2M bi-annual exception, and further get to keep the Bird Rights to free agents such as Spencer Hawes if they instead signed and traded Deng for James. That's even disregarding the idea that if the Cavs were open to any sign and trade option at all, they may not have hadto trade Jarrett Jack or Tyler Zeller. They couldn't keep all three of Jack, Zeller, Hawes, but could have kept one or two depending on the timing. Instead of trading with Miami for James they instead ended up with only the $2.7M room exception (Mike Miller). The idea was that if they traded with the HEAT, they may be giving them a trade exception (depending on James and Deng's salary gap), but the real issue was that it would allow them to keep the Bird Rights to all the players they themselves were trying to leech away (Allen, Jones, Birdman). Even if they had the mid-level and bi-annual, that probably wouldn't be enough. Although they could offer up to $5.3M to one player, the HEAT could essentially overpay anything they wanted to Allen, Jones, or Birdman "just because" and keep them away from Cleveland.

:laugh2: And you expect this not to sound as if it is coming from a bias Heat fan?


In conclusion:

I just felt like I wanted to tell it from my perspective how I saw things. I expect this thread to be locked, moved, or overrun by trolls within 24 hours, I don't expect more than 5% of logical responses from non-biased posters who don't hate James or the Miami HEAT. The purpose was to tell about what type of person LeBron James is and how he treated the team that helped him get over the championship hump. It's also to give the side of why some HEAT fans now dislike LeBron, and aren't simply "salty". I have never been angry that he left, but I am annoyed at how he left, and I wanted to present some facts of the events why I believe some still are angry. I will always respect the 4 years he played for my favorite team. Speaking for myself, it is much easier to move past my dislike for James because of Riley's great job at picking up the pieces and delivering a team I can still enjoy. But the Cavs are now a rival/disliked team just like the Knicks, Bulls, and Celtics have been a rival/disliked team as a HEAT fan the last 20 years

Here's the TRUTH, I don't see any FACTS in your post that show LeBron made his decision to leave the Heat weeks before he made his decision. All I see is a poster trying to rationalize his negative feelings about LeBron leaving the Heat. And you preface this by "essentially" stating that only rationale fans understand this, and anyone who may disagree is thus irrational I suppose. Also, I think it is a two way street in that not only did the Heat help LeBron get over his championship hump, but LeBron helped the Heat get two more championships during his tenure in Miami.

LeBron screwed over the Heat the same way he screwed over the Cavs. The only difference is that the Heat still have a playoff team, while the Cavs were doomed to a lottery team. Both franchises made mistakes.

Shammyguy3
11-09-2014, 11:04 PM
Arch's response should seal the deal on this thread

ewing
11-09-2014, 11:23 PM
Here is the truth, whether you want to accept it or not. This has nothing to do with me being a Miami fan. This has everything to do with common sense and rational logic. So, before you jump to a hasty conclusion about this telling of truth, you should at least listen to it in its entirety and absorb the facts that I will present to you. If you think this is too long to read, this intro/synopsis tells basically what this is about:

Intro/synopsis:
LeBron helped the Cavs "play defense" against the HEAT. He made his decision to leave weeks before it had gone public. The Cavs could have come away possibly keeping Jack, Zeller, Hawes, or any number of other combinations adding outside free agents with more money to spend by working with Miami in a sign and trade, but willingly chose the alternative to have a weaker team in hopes of killing the HEAT and getting their draft pick that would be unprotected in 2 years if the HEAT were a bottom 10 team. He was willing to partake in the plan because he felt disrespected by Riley while playing at a GOAT level on a discounted contract winning the organization championships. Gilbert wanted to watch the HEAT fall from grace just as his team did


Full retelling of the truth:
Lets start with a general timeline of events with sources, and facts with quotes from real people what happened:

June 23rd, 2014
James' wife sends out a message that says; “Home sweet Home the countdown is real #330.” (source (http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/06/lebron_james_wife_savannah_hea.html))
July 5th, 2014
-According to Sports Illustrated managing editor Chris Stone, LeBron James' people reached out to Lee Jenkins about the essay of his decision (source (http://deadspin.com/who-actually-got-the-lebron-james-scoop-1604853768))
July 6th, 2014
-According to Dion Waiters, he stated that James reached out to him through a phone call 5 days before his official announcement. Although he did not specifically state his intentions, he was told to be ready. (source (http://triangleoffense.com/news/dion-waiters-says-he-knew-lebron-was-coming-home-days-before-his-announcement/))
July 9th, 2014
-Cavaliers trade Jarrett Jack and Tyler Zeller to the Nets in a preemptive move to clear cap space for a max contract offer (source (http://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/09/cavs-trade-jack-nets-cap-space))
-Chris Sheridan states with certainty, that LeBron James is "100%" going back to Cleveland (source (http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/07/10/chris-sheridan-live-on-kiley-booms-lebron-james-is-100-coming-back-to-cleveland/))
July 11th, 2014
-James officially announces his decision to the public. (source (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203027/lebron-james-says-returning-cleveland-cavaliers))


When exactly do you think LeBron made his decision and why?

LeBron made his decision clearly weeks before the final meeting with the Miami HEAT. He was clearly upset with Pat Riley's public address telling James he was pissed at the idea of him leaving, and to "stay if you've got the guts (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/heat/2014/06/19/pat-riley-news-conference-lebron-james-dwyane-wade-free-agency-miami/10877283/)" after the Finals loss. Sometime between that June 20th press conference by Riley, he decided with his family to go back to Cleveland, and his wife accidentally leaked the idea 3 days later June 23rd. His decision this early is further evidenced by his complete shut down of communication between him and Riley throughout free agency. Although James stated in his exit press conference the HEAT need to "get better at every position" (http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article1966724.html), he chose not to communicate with the man doing the rebuilding. Riley stated that throughout free agency from July 1st until his official announcement, "I sent him a lot of emails and texts, I was communicating a lot with him. No response." (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-lebron-james-s073014-story.html) With the apparent decline of Wade's health, the aging veterans on the verge of retirement, and the disbelief the HEAT had the financial ability to add legitimate impact players while barely affording to keep the core, and the Cavs holding the cards to swing big trades, it was the perfect storm.

Okay, even if I believe your version of the facts, so what? He can take however long he wants to make a decision. Why do you think he wanted Miami to suck? What is the motivation?

The Miami HEAT headed into free agency with an NBA record $55M in cap space (http://www.365rundown.com/miami-heat-create-nba-record-55m-cap-space/) and had flexibility to create more. There were a number of free agents available to sign and improve the team at critical positions of need. LeBron along with his inner circle and Cavs organization wanted the market to dry up. With Chris Bosh a pending free agent, his inner circle believed that by waiting until July 11th by then he would surely take the offer from the Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203334/houston-rockets-believe-chris-bosh-sign-soon), and leave the HEAT holding the pieces. The motivation is that the Cavs at the time owned the HEAT's 2015 NBA draft pick with only a top 10 protection (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/11/5891137/lebron-james-cavaliers-draft-pick-miami-heat). The prospect that he could build a contender with the Cavs, while simultaneously eliminating a proven veteran threat, and possibly adding another high level rookie prospect next summer as icing to the cake, was just an enticing strategy him and his people. The Cavs would (as now seen) have some growing pains as they work to gain chemistry and teach some of their guys the sacrifice of playing winning basketball, and have their head coach adjust to the NBA. If they could eliminate a team they "might" have to go through in an already weak Eastern Conference, it would have been great for them, and also give Dan Gilbert some added vindication watching the HEAT free fall just as his team did 4 years earlier. Gilbert and the Cavs wanted Riley and the HEAT to feel just as stupid as he felt about putting their hopes in keeping James and other free agents, only to see them walk out the door and go from contender to laughing stock in one quick swipe.

So you expect me to believe he and the Cavs planned all this out to "stick it" to the HEAT and "possibly" add a rookie? Really?


Yes, because the details are clearer when you factor in the details of his official departure and signing. Within 24 hours of making his decision to join the Cavs, Chris Bosh recommits to the HEAT, and Luol Deng also committed to the HEAT. In case some of you forgot, Deng played for the Cavs last year. LeBron James was leaving the HEAT to join the Cavs. Perfect chance to set up a sign and trade, right? Wrong. The Cavs had the opportunity to get the $5.3M mid-level exception as well as $2.2M bi-annual exception, and further get to keep the Bird Rights to free agents such as Spencer Hawes if they instead signed and traded Deng for James. That's even disregarding the idea that if the Cavs were open to any sign and trade option at all, they may not have hadto trade Jarrett Jack or Tyler Zeller. They couldn't keep all three of Jack, Zeller, Hawes, but could have kept one or two depending on the timing. Instead of trading with Miami for James they instead ended up with only the $2.7M room exception (Mike Miller). The idea was that if they traded with the HEAT, they may be giving them a trade exception (depending on James and Deng's salary gap), but the real issue was that it would allow them to keep the Bird Rights to all the players they themselves were trying to leech away (Allen, Jones, Birdman). Even if they had the mid-level and bi-annual, that probably wouldn't be enough. Although they could offer up to $5.3M to one player, the HEAT could essentially overpay anything they wanted to Allen, Jones, or Birdman "just because" and keep them away from Cleveland.

In conclusion:

I just felt like I wanted to tell it from my perspective how I saw things. I expect this thread to be locked, moved, or overrun by trolls within 24 hours, I don't expect more than 5% of logical responses from non-biased posters who don't hate James or the Miami HEAT. The purpose was to tell about what type of person LeBron James is and how he treated the team that helped him get over the championship hump. It's also to give the side of why some HEAT fans now dislike LeBron, and aren't simply "salty". I have never been angry that he left, but I am annoyed at how he left, and I wanted to present some facts of the events why I believe some still are angry. I will always respect the 4 years he played for my favorite team. Speaking for myself, it is much easier to move past my dislike for James because of Riley's great job at picking up the pieces and delivering a team I can still enjoy. But the Cavs are now a rival/disliked team just like the Knicks, Bulls, and Celtics have been a rival/disliked team as a HEAT fan the last 20 years.

LeBron has 5 potions on the court and GM of any team that has a chance at acquiring him. everyone knows this. Some people think don't like him for it, some dont care

flea
11-09-2014, 11:27 PM
What is even going on here? Is that wall of text worth reading or is this another NBA forum waste of a thread?

beasted86
11-09-2014, 11:39 PM
Here's the TRUTH, I don't see any FACTS in your post that show LeBron made his decision to leave the Heat weeks before he made his decision. All I see is a poster trying to rationalize his negative feelings about LeBron leaving the Heat. And you preface this by "essentially" stating that only rationale fans understand this, and anyone who may disagree is thus irrational I suppose. Also, I think it is a two way street in that not only did the Heat help LeBron get over his championship hump, but LeBron helped the Heat get two more championships during his tenure in Miami.

LeBron screwed over the Heat the same way he screwed over the Cavs. The only difference is that the Heat still have a playoff team, while the Cavs were doomed to a lottery team. Both franchises made mistakes.

I presented mostly facts, rather than opinions. The opinion parts are clear that they are opinions and not presented as fact if you can read and comprehend. The facts show telling signs of a timeline that his decision was made LONG before his meeting with the HEAT where he supposedly said he didn't make his decision, and led Riley to believe they were still in play (http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2014-07-31/pat-riley-lebron-james-nba-free-agency-heat-cavs-dwyane-wade-chris-bosh). That's called misleading (see: lying/deceiving) his former team.

Yes... as I said in the start, whether you want to believe these facts that show a pattern that his decision was made, that's not my problem. This is rational deductive reasoning, and if you don't understand this line of events as his decision already being made, then yes, you are irrational. If the only belief system that you use is one of concrete tangible evidence, then you are fool. This is basically the "you can't see, smell, hear, touch, or taste the brain inside your head, so you must not have one" paradox.

Yes, I said in the synopsis/intro that LeBron was playing at a GOAT level winning the organization championships. I'm not bitter or delusional about his role in the title runs, so save your troll hunting nonsense for someone else.

Finally, even if you want to say that he left both teams in the same fashion, the effect and risk the HEAT were facing was far greater than the Cavs. The Cavs had Jamison, Varejao, Mo Williams, and the rest of the lot of cap clogging contracts. Essentially with or without James, the majority of their money was spent. Its not as if they were in danger of truly missing out on free agents because there was little money to even spend. They also owned all of their 1st round draft picks following 2010. The HEAT on the other hand had 1 official player under contract, and owned the draft rights to Napier, that's it. They needed time to build a team in the event Bosh left and James/Cavs' strategy to wait was a clear attempt to undermine that effort. I never even pretended to present this in a way that it was "unfair to the HEAT"... all is fair in war, and if this is his strategy, so be it. Its Riley's job to plan for all these different circumstances that could happen. What I did state is this is why the HEAT fans have legitimate reasons to dislike his departure, rather than the actual act of the departure. And I wanted to present the idea that this is the type of strategy he needs to use to win. This is what type of person he is. So all of you need to throw in the garbage this supposed feel-good, "everything was put back in its place" nonsense mindset that he just "genuinely" needed time to decide. No, this was a strategic wait.

WVNowitzki
11-10-2014, 12:08 AM
I also refuse to believe he premeditated his decision either time. If the HEAT won the championship last year, there is 0% chance he leaves. If the Cavs in 2010 won the championship, there is 0% chance he leaves. I hope you can agree with these clearly rational statements. So with those two statements in mind, it is impossible for him to have colluded or planned it out in advance. I would more likely to chalk that up to "keeping his options open".

They may be rational statements, but they are opinion, nothing more. You can't expect people to agree with you just because you presented hypothetical facts ( If he woulda won with "insert team", he would of stayed ) . This whole topic is conspiracy laced ( I do enjoy a good conspiracy ) and subjective because we will never know 100% of what goes on behind closed doors amongst all involved parties.

You've got to be completely naive or trolling to not believe that there was and is collusion and premeditation rampant in the NBA.

Hoopsadvocate
11-10-2014, 12:13 AM
I presented mostly facts, rather than opinions. The opinion parts are clear that they are opinions and not presented as fact if you can read and comprehend. The facts show telling signs of a timeline that his decision was made LONG before his meeting with the HEAT where he supposedly said he didn't make his decision, and led Riley to believe they were still in play (http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2014-07-31/pat-riley-lebron-james-nba-free-agency-heat-cavs-dwyane-wade-chris-bosh). That's called misleading (see: lying/deceiving) his former team.

Yes... as I said in the start, whether you want to believe these facts that show a pattern that his decision was made, that's not my problem. This is rational deductive reasoning, and if you don't understand this line of events as his decision already being made, then yes, you are irrational. If the only belief system that you use is one of concrete tangible evidence, then you are fool. This is basically the "you can't see, smell, hear, touch, or taste the brain inside your head, so you must not have one" paradox.

Yes, I said in the synopsis/intro that LeBron was playing at a GOAT level winning the organization championships. I'm not bitter or delusional about his role in the title runs, so save your troll hunting nonsense for someone else.

Finally, even if you want to say that he left both teams in the same fashion, the effect and risk the HEAT were facing was far greater than the Cavs. The Cavs had Jamison, Varejao, Mo Williams, and the rest of the lot of cap clogging contracts. Essentially with or without James, the majority of their money was spent. Its not as if they were in danger of truly missing out on free agents because there was little money to even spend. They also owned all of their 1st round draft picks following 2010. The HEAT on the other hand had 1 official player under contract, and owned the draft rights to Napier, that's it. They needed time to build a team in the event Bosh left and James/Cavs' strategy to wait was a clear attempt to undermine that effort. I never even pretended to present this in a way that it was "unfair to the HEAT"... all is fair in war, and if this is his strategy, so be it. Its Riley's job to plan for all these different circumstances that could happen. What I did state is this is why the HEAT fans have legitimate reasons to dislike his departure, rather than the actual act of the departure. And I wanted to present the idea that this is the type of strategy he needs to use to win. This is what type of person he is. So all of you need to throw in the garbage this supposed feel-good, "everything was put back in its place" nonsense mindset that he just "genuinely" needed time to decide. No, this was a strategic wait.

Sorry man but your reaching a bit.

The "facts" you presented are all a few days before his actual decision nothing you presented shows he made the decision weeks in advance as u claim.

Furthermore i followed all of what you posted as it happened minus the doin waiters thing. And that comes from a scratchy source and even in the article soon is quoted as saying lebron said he was still undecided when he called. And again regardless this was a few days before the decision was made

I do agree however that the cavs want to screw us by not trading for lebron like we did. But no way do I feel lebron would do that to us and to his best friend d wade. And I'm not particularly happy withy lebron leaving either and wish nothing but unsuccessful seasons for him as a Cavalier but your theory is reaching.

Crunch Time
11-10-2014, 12:25 AM
ya snooze ya lose

mjt20mik
11-10-2014, 12:28 AM
He got you two more championships (whether you want to believe this truth or not). Just be happy, and stop being sour. The HEAT are still a very good team with a very good coach and FO. Stop complaining.

Arch Stanton
11-10-2014, 12:41 AM
I presented mostly facts, rather than opinions. The opinion parts are clear that they are opinions and not presented as fact if you can read and comprehend. The facts show telling signs of a timeline that his decision was made LONG before his meeting with the HEAT where he supposedly said he didn't make his decision, and led Riley to believe they were still in play (http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2014-07-31/pat-riley-lebron-james-nba-free-agency-heat-cavs-dwyane-wade-chris-bosh). That's called misleading (see: lying/deceiving) his former team.

Whether I agree with you or not, your facts, opinions, and timeline did not prove (a.) LeBron made his decision weeks before, (b.) that the Cavs were trying to make the Heat suck. As I stated before I believe you are trying to rationalize your negative feelings about LeBron leaving the Heat.


Yes... as I said in the start, whether you want to believe these facts that show a pattern that his decision was made, that's not my problem. This is rational deductive reasoning, and if you don't understand this line of events as his decision already being made, then yes, you are irrational.

So since your timeline does not prove anything I am irrational? Okay.


If the only belief system that you use is one of concrete tangible evidence, then you are fool. This is basically the "you can't see, smell, hear, touch, or taste the brain inside your head, so you must not have one" paradox.

You made a case for what you believe and I disputed this with RATIONAL reasoning.


Yes, I said in the synopsis/intro that LeBron was playing at a GOAT level winning the organization championships. I'm not bitter or delusional about his role in the title runs, so save your troll hunting nonsense for someone else.

Thanks for the insults. Whose trolling who here?


Finally, even if you want to say that he left both teams in the same fashion, the effect and risk the HEAT were facing was far greater than the Cavs. The Cavs had Jamison, Varejao, Mo Williams, and the rest of the lot of cap clogging contracts. Essentially with or without James, the majority of their money was spent. Its not as if they were in danger of truly missing out on free agents because there was little money to even spend.

I disagree with this statement. LeBron leaving the Cavs in 2010 had a far greater impact on the Cavs than him leaving the Heat in 2014. With James they were a playoff team and potential finals contender. Without him they were garbage. The Heat still have Wade, and Bosh. It is simple as that.


They also owned all of their 1st round draft picks following 2010. The HEAT on the other hand had 1 official player under contract, and owned the draft rights to Napier, that's it. They needed time to build a team in the event Bosh left and James/Cavs' strategy to wait was a clear attempt to undermine that effort.

Again, I do not see this as a clear attempt to undermine the Heat organization. Just more speculation by you.


I never even pretended to present this in a way that it was "unfair to the HEAT"... all is fair in war, and if this is his strategy, so be it. Its Riley's job to plan for all these different circumstances that could happen. What I did state is this is why the HEAT fans have legitimate reasons to dislike his departure, rather than the actual act of the departure. And I wanted to present the idea that this is the type of strategy he needs to use to win. This is what type of person he is. So all of you need to throw in the garbage this supposed feel-good, "everything was put back in its place" nonsense mindset that he just "genuinely" needed time to decide. No, this was a strategic wait.

Heat fans have legitimate reasons to be hurt and feel however they want. I remember Cavs fans/media saying similar things when he left in 2010.

It's not that he left its the way he left.

So ultimately, what you are telling me that this is all circumstantial evidence that does not prove LeBron made his decisions weeks before and also does not prove he was strategically waiting to make the Heat a worse team, correct?

Sadds The Gr8
11-10-2014, 01:19 AM
Amazing story.

Kashmir13579
11-10-2014, 01:29 AM
The heat are garbage bro..

PurpleJesus
11-10-2014, 01:31 AM
I also think Walter Payton's powers he received either from radioactive waste, or aliens, made him involved in the government's plot to crash Muslims into the world trade towers.

nastynice
11-10-2014, 01:41 AM
Its the same exact thing he did before, but in reverse.

First, Lebron strung the Cavs along right up until the very end when he wanted to make public what he had already decided earlier.

Then he did the exact same thing to the Heat that he did to the Cavs. What's the big deal?

Admittedly I haven't gone through EVERYTHING written, because its just so damn much, but that pretty much sums it up there. I don't see why its something to be salty about. Its just how he operates. Self entitled, because everyone around him empowers him to be so. Heat FO and Cavs FO included.

nastynice
11-10-2014, 01:44 AM
Actually, without Lebron, its very doubtful that Bosh is on the Heat today. Heat fans should still be grateful for Lebron. The gift that keeps giving! lol

Tony_Starks
11-10-2014, 02:16 AM
I seriously doubt the Cavs had some master plan to screw Miami over. Lebron basically didn't feel his super team was that super anymore and jumped ship to form a new one. Simple as that.

But Miami is still a very solid team and will probably be facing the Bulls in the ECF. If I was a Heat fan I'd be feeling pretty good right about now.....

Dade County
11-10-2014, 02:35 AM
The heat are garbage bro..

So does that mean, Ny can be considered a waste land?

WadeCounty
11-10-2014, 05:15 AM
Here is the truth, whether you want to accept it or not. This has nothing to do with me being a Miami fan. This has everything to do with common sense and rational logic. So, before you jump to a hasty conclusion about this telling of truth, you should at least listen to it in its entirety and absorb the facts that I will present to you. If you think this is too long to read, this intro/synopsis tells basically what this is about:

Intro/synopsis:
LeBron helped the Cavs "play defense" against the HEAT. He made his decision to leave weeks before it had gone public. The Cavs could have come away possibly keeping Jack, Zeller, Hawes, or any number of other combinations adding outside free agents with more money to spend by working with Miami in a sign and trade, but willingly chose the alternative to have a weaker team in hopes of killing the HEAT and getting their draft pick that would be unprotected in 2 years if the HEAT were a bottom 10 team. He was willing to partake in the plan because he felt disrespected by Riley while playing at a GOAT level on a discounted contract winning the organization championships. Gilbert wanted to watch the HEAT fall from grace just as his team did


Full retelling of the truth:
Lets start with a general timeline of events with sources, and facts with quotes from real people what happened:

June 23rd, 2014
James' wife sends out a message that says; “Home sweet Home the countdown is real #330.” (source (http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/06/lebron_james_wife_savannah_hea.html))
July 5th, 2014
-According to Sports Illustrated managing editor Chris Stone, LeBron James' people reached out to Lee Jenkins about the essay of his decision (source (http://deadspin.com/who-actually-got-the-lebron-james-scoop-1604853768))
July 6th, 2014
-According to Dion Waiters, he stated that James reached out to him through a phone call 5 days before his official announcement. Although he did not specifically state his intentions, he was told to be ready. (source (http://triangleoffense.com/news/dion-waiters-says-he-knew-lebron-was-coming-home-days-before-his-announcement/))
July 9th, 2014
-Cavaliers trade Jarrett Jack and Tyler Zeller to the Nets in a preemptive move to clear cap space for a max contract offer (source (http://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/09/cavs-trade-jack-nets-cap-space))
-Chris Sheridan states with certainty, that LeBron James is "100%" going back to Cleveland (source (http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/07/10/chris-sheridan-live-on-kiley-booms-lebron-james-is-100-coming-back-to-cleveland/))
July 11th, 2014
-James officially announces his decision to the public. (source (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203027/lebron-james-says-returning-cleveland-cavaliers))


When exactly do you think LeBron made his decision and why?

LeBron made his decision clearly weeks before the final meeting with the Miami HEAT. He was clearly upset with Pat Riley's public address telling James he was pissed at the idea of him leaving, and to "stay if you've got the guts (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/heat/2014/06/19/pat-riley-news-conference-lebron-james-dwyane-wade-free-agency-miami/10877283/)" after the Finals loss. Sometime between that June 20th press conference by Riley, he decided with his family to go back to Cleveland, and his wife accidentally leaked the idea 3 days later June 23rd. His decision this early is further evidenced by his complete shut down of communication between him and Riley throughout free agency. Although James stated in his exit press conference the HEAT need to "get better at every position" (http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article1966724.html), he chose not to communicate with the man doing the rebuilding. Riley stated that throughout free agency from July 1st until his official announcement, "I sent him a lot of emails and texts, I was communicating a lot with him. No response." (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-lebron-james-s073014-story.html) With the apparent decline of Wade's health, the aging veterans on the verge of retirement, and the disbelief the HEAT had the financial ability to add legitimate impact players while barely affording to keep the core, and the Cavs holding the cards to swing big trades, it was the perfect storm.

Okay, even if I believe your version of the facts, so what? He can take however long he wants to make a decision. Why do you think he wanted Miami to suck? What is the motivation?

The Miami HEAT headed into free agency with an NBA record $55M in cap space (http://www.365rundown.com/miami-heat-create-nba-record-55m-cap-space/) and had flexibility to create more. There were a number of free agents available to sign and improve the team at critical positions of need. LeBron along with his inner circle and Cavs organization wanted the market to dry up. With Chris Bosh a pending free agent, his inner circle believed that by waiting until July 11th by then he would surely take the offer from the Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203334/houston-rockets-believe-chris-bosh-sign-soon), and leave the HEAT holding the pieces. The motivation is that the Cavs at the time owned the HEAT's 2015 NBA draft pick with only a top 10 protection (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/11/5891137/lebron-james-cavaliers-draft-pick-miami-heat). The prospect that he could build a contender with the Cavs, while simultaneously eliminating a proven veteran threat, and possibly adding another high level rookie prospect next summer as icing to the cake, was just an enticing strategy him and his people. The Cavs would (as now seen) have some growing pains as they work to gain chemistry and teach some of their guys the sacrifice of playing winning basketball, and have their head coach adjust to the NBA. If they could eliminate a team they "might" have to go through in an already weak Eastern Conference, it would have been great for them, and also give Dan Gilbert some added vindication watching the HEAT free fall just as his team did 4 years earlier. Gilbert and the Cavs wanted Riley and the HEAT to feel just as stupid as he felt about putting their hopes in keeping James and other free agents, only to see them walk out the door and go from contender to laughing stock in one quick swipe.

So you expect me to believe he and the Cavs planned all this out to "stick it" to the HEAT and "possibly" add a rookie? Really?


Yes, because the details are clearer when you factor in the details of his official departure and signing. Within 24 hours of making his decision to join the Cavs, Chris Bosh recommits to the HEAT, and Luol Deng also committed to the HEAT. In case some of you forgot, Deng played for the Cavs last year. LeBron James was leaving the HEAT to join the Cavs. Perfect chance to set up a sign and trade, right? Wrong. The Cavs had the opportunity to get the $5.3M mid-level exception as well as $2.2M bi-annual exception, and further get to keep the Bird Rights to free agents such as Spencer Hawes if they instead signed and traded Deng for James. That's even disregarding the idea that if the Cavs were open to any sign and trade option at all, they may not have hadto trade Jarrett Jack or Tyler Zeller. They couldn't keep all three of Jack, Zeller, Hawes, but could have kept one or two depending on the timing. Instead of trading with Miami for James they instead ended up with only the $2.7M room exception (Mike Miller). The idea was that if they traded with the HEAT, they may be giving them a trade exception (depending on James and Deng's salary gap), but the real issue was that it would allow them to keep the Bird Rights to all the players they themselves were trying to leech away (Allen, Jones, Birdman). Even if they had the mid-level and bi-annual, that probably wouldn't be enough. Although they could offer up to $5.3M to one player, the HEAT could essentially overpay anything they wanted to Allen, Jones, or Birdman "just because" and keep them away from Cleveland.

In conclusion:

I just felt like I wanted to tell it from my perspective how I saw things. I expect this thread to be locked, moved, or overrun by trolls within 24 hours, I don't expect more than 5% of logical responses from non-biased posters who don't hate James or the Miami HEAT. The purpose was to tell about what type of person LeBron James is and how he treated the team that helped him get over the championship hump. It's also to give the side of why some HEAT fans now dislike LeBron, and aren't simply "salty". I have never been angry that he left, but I am annoyed at how he left, and I wanted to present some facts of the events why I believe some still are angry. I will always respect the 4 years he played for my favorite team. Speaking for myself, it is much easier to move past my dislike for James because of Riley's great job at picking up the pieces and delivering a team I can still enjoy. But the Cavs are now a rival/disliked team just like the Knicks, Bulls, and Celtics have been a rival/disliked team as a HEAT fan the last 20 years.

I've had this stance since the whole could of trade scenario of James and Deng and also came to the same conclusion just never bothered to post it due to 90% of the people on the front page. You take so much time into trying to have a discussion just to get an insightful facepalm smiley.

I still love our team more so than that of last year, my only disappointment was watching James Jones leave us. Lebron's departure really tainted the last 4 years of him being with us. Don't care if we won 2 of the 4 finals appearance, it feels as far as Wade's 2006 performance at this point, if you're not the reigning championship team then past championships are irrelevant. The only thing I remember the most from the past 4 years I can't take away is the win streak.

IBleedPurple
11-10-2014, 08:22 AM
Heat fans should still be grateful for Lebron. The gift that keeps giving! lol Ron Mexico would agree.

BlueandWhite
11-10-2014, 08:44 AM
The only thing Miami Heat fans should say to or about Lebron, is "Thank you". Thats it. He doesn't owe you anything and doesn't purposely have a agenda to ruin your team. He wanted to go home.

Like I said, all I should be hearing is "Thank you Lebron".

sep11ie
11-10-2014, 09:02 AM
First he conspired for you, then he conspired against you... After all you're fans annoying boasting you want us to feel bad for you now?

Dade County
11-10-2014, 10:10 AM
The only thing Miami Heat fans should say to or about Lebron, is "Thank you". Thats it. He doesn't owe you anything and doesn't purposely have a agenda to ruin your team. He wanted to go home.

Like I said, all I should be hearing is "Thank you Lebron".

I think he should be saying thank you to Wade & Pat, before he came here, he never even won 1 Finals game.

Your Welcome Lbj. It goes both ways BlueandWhite.

Slug3
11-10-2014, 10:38 AM
I thought the Cavs traded the Miami pick away?

prodigy
11-10-2014, 10:40 AM
I only read first paragraph and I could tell it was stupid. Just stop its sad now. Lebron got you guys 2 rings move on. He didn't owe you guys anything.

The success of the heat depends on wade. He's a HOF'er for a reason. If he stays healthy then heat with be a tough team to beat. Hurt wade then heat are nothing more then a solid team.

Arch Stanton
11-10-2014, 10:41 AM
First he conspired for you, then he conspired against you... After all you're fans annoying boasting you want us to feel bad for you now?

Someone call the Whambulance!

mjt20mik
11-10-2014, 11:07 AM
I think he should be saying thank you to Wade & Pat, before he came here, he never even won 1 Finals game.

Your Welcome Lbj. It goes both ways BlueandWhite.

Thank you?

I don't get this. You guys win two championships back to back, go to the finals 4 times in a row, and he should be saying thank you? You realize you had the best player in the world with Lebron. Wade wasn't playing well and was injured. Bosh did his thing, but you cannot compare him to Lebron.

There is no way the Heat would be in the finals (let alone win championships) the last four years if it wasn't for Lebron.

mjm07
11-10-2014, 11:15 AM
Not sure why this is brought up at all as it will get no support from anyone outside of 305.

Cleveland fans and the ownership embarrassed the hell out of themselves and their team tanked for 4 yrs after he left.

Our ownership is simply too classy and prestigious of an organization to do the same. I, as well as many others, have and will continue to follow suit.

The Miami Heat are still a very solid team and will continue to be or better moving forward. GO HEAT!!

curtcocaine
11-10-2014, 11:44 AM
Didnt he do Cleaveland the same way?

WaDe03
11-10-2014, 11:46 AM
Well it didn't work the Heat look great so far and the Cavs look like ****. Waiters is already crying about his role which was expected and Kyrie is a terrible PG in terms of getting teammates involved. They only look concerned with individual play except for LeBron who hasn't been near as efficient without Wade and is having a terrible year by his terms.

I do agree though LeBron already knew he was leaving he should've just came out with it the first day so we could've done more recruiting.

curtcocaine
11-10-2014, 11:52 AM
Well it didn't work the Heat look great so far and the Cavs look like ****. Waiters is already crying about his role which was expected and Kyrie is a terrible PG in terms of getting teammates involved. They only look concerned with individual play except for LeBron who hasn't been near as efficient without Wade and is having a terrible year by his terms.

I do agree though LeBron already knew he was leaving he should've just came out with it the first day so we could've done more recruiting.
Why would he do you guys better than his home team? He screwed Cleaveland when he left with the Decesion. And did yall the same way basically.

Crackadalic
11-10-2014, 12:32 PM
Can't believe I read through this garbage

benzni
11-10-2014, 12:40 PM
That makes it even funnier

Tony_Starks
11-10-2014, 12:45 PM
This is kindof like taking somebody's chick and then getting mad when she turns around and cheats on you....

sturm
11-10-2014, 01:00 PM
This is kindof like taking somebody's chick and then getting mad when she turns around and cheats on you....yeah this chick is ****ing whore. it felt disgusting.

Master Mind
11-10-2014, 01:08 PM
For some reason Stugotz's article is not accessible anymore but good thing someone posted it on their FB page. I think Stugotz have some good insight and is basically backing up Beasted's post.

https://m.facebook.com/CashRegister/posts/10204379197546921

SportsFanatic10
11-10-2014, 01:16 PM
i agree, but it's over now and it's time to move on. miami is solid still and fun to watch, i'm just going to enjoy this season.

mjt20mik
11-10-2014, 01:28 PM
yeah this chick is ****ing whore. it felt disgusting.

Whatever, its not like you didn't get some of the best *** ever. Some might even say you won it all.

Master Mind
11-10-2014, 01:47 PM
Lebron is a very calculated dude, and is very self aware as seen with his opening night speech (pep talk), and mt. rushmore debate, wanting to be the first billionaire athlete and so on. On one hand you can't knock a man for expanding his business /brand but on the other loyalty is a deformed step child, no one want part of it anymore (well only a few). It just comes off douchy and he plays on the emotions of everyone. That essay was part bs and part genuine sentiments, he may have very well missed home but he knows exactly what a move to Cleveland meant in terms of likability (image) and ultimately his pockets. I believe this been in the works for the past year or so, even if he won another championship with Miami. He basically foreshadowed it when he wrote his brothers for life birthday note to dwade, google it. It's one thing to douche out an org that failed to put pieces around you and it's another to disrespect a org that got you to rare air. 4 straight finals appearance and 2 championships to show for it and that's how you treat those who had your back. I completely agree with the OP. Lebron's a douche :p

WaDe03
11-10-2014, 01:49 PM
Why would he do you guys better than his home team? He screwed Cleaveland when he left with the Decesion. And did yall the same way basically.

Because we taught him what it took to win a championship everyone is saying we should thank him for winning us 2 championships. The team won 2 championships not just him if that's the case he should thank Ray Allen for his shot in game 6.

I'm not bitter he left I'm actually happy I like the way this new Heat team plays and I'm more excited for this season than I have been since the big 3s first year together. I just think he should've said the first day he was leaving.

Stinkyoutsider
11-10-2014, 01:52 PM
As far as his career, Lebron is most concerned about his legacy (winning titles) and his numbers. Those are 2 things he believes will make him the GOAT. That, along with being a business man, led him to the Cavs.

I do believe there was a small part of him who's glad he's playing back in his home state now but we shouldn't get it twisted. Lebron will go where he has the best chance at completing goals 1 and 2 (titles, numbers).

I don't think he necessarily planned his exit from Miami before but by looking at how the Heat were beaten and also the condition of Wade, he was ready to leave. Not sure if Lebron wanted to leave the Heat in a weakened state or not because if he was a true competitor, he would want to beat the Heat at their strongest (for his own legacy to grow).

curtcocaine
11-10-2014, 01:53 PM
Because we taught him what it took to win a championship everyone is saying we should thank him for winning us 2 championships. The team won 2 championships not just him if that's the case he should thank Ray Allen for his shot in game 6.

I'm not bitter he left I'm actually happy I like the way this new Heat team plays and I'm more excited for this season than I have been since the big 3s first year together. I just think he should've said the first day he was leaving.
Not to be disrespectful but lol at you for expecting anything different. To me it was obvious. Your supposed to know your history. And seriously your excited with this core? I want what your smoking!

prodigy
11-10-2014, 02:06 PM
Well it didn't work the Heat look great so far and the Cavs look like ****. Waiters is already crying about his role which was expected and Kyrie is a terrible PG in terms of getting teammates involved. They only look concerned with individual play except for LeBron who hasn't been near as efficient without Wade and is having a terrible year by his terms.

I do agree though LeBron already knew he was leaving he should've just came out with it the first day so we could've done more recruiting.

People are so stupid. I'm sorry I know I might get in trouble for saying that but let's get real. Can the cavs have a few games to get comfortable with each other geeez. If anyone honestly thinks the cavs will not be a really good team should beat themselves with a table leg. Its insane the amount of dumbness people can show.

Guess what, if it turns out Irving or waiters are not a good fit then moves will be made. That's sports for you.

ichitownclowni
11-10-2014, 02:09 PM
Damn you Obama

SportsFanatic10
11-10-2014, 02:20 PM
Not to be disrespectful but lol at you for expecting anything different. To me it was obvious. Your supposed to know your history. And seriously your excited with this core? I want what your smoking!

nothing wrong with heat fans being excited about this heat team. its fun watching wade and bosh play their games again instead of trying to fit into roles below their talent levels. he didn't say he had unrealistic expectations or anything.

Vee-Rex
11-10-2014, 02:32 PM
This is kindof like taking somebody's chick and then getting mad when she turns around and cheats on you....

Hahaha, +1.

MassoDio
11-10-2014, 03:05 PM
I started this thread with linear logic, and rational thinking in mind, so that's what I'm continuing with, so I can't buy this blind, unrealistic scenario like you are suggesting. If you believe these things, point out some facts, because your one fact is false. They HEAT haven't retired 23 (nor Dan Marino's 13). The team never had a ceremony or other to retire these numbers. They are simply jerseys that are hung on a corner wall to honor these players. Mike Miller and Shabazz Napier have both gone on to wear #13.



First off...the bolded part....Here is a quote from Riley on the night they retired Jordan's number. Again...this is directly from Riley in his speech to Jordan.

“In honor of your greatness and for all you’ve done for the game of basketball – and not just the NBA, but for all the fans around the world – we want to honor you tonight and hang your jersey, No. 23, from the rafters,” Heat coach Pat Riley said. “No one will ever wear No. 23 for the Miami Heat. You’re the best.”

As far as this theory...

I completely believe he knew ahead of time that he was leaving. Just like he knew ahead of time in 2010.

I don't believe he was making plans with Gilbert to screw over Miami by waiting. I do believe he was waiting as long as possible to build anticipation, and so that he could make another grandiose announcement, again, just like he did in 2010.

LeBron is about LeBron. You making a point to show why he is a douche....A LOT of NBA fans that are not Cavs fans or Heat fans, have realized that since 2010.

None of LeBron's actions should be a surprise to Heat fans, since this is what he did to the Cavs in order to join your team 4 years ago.

It sucks. It would be nice if the best player on the planet was not a glorified mercenary. But, that is what he is.

No reason to be upset at him now, if you ever told a Cavs fan they should get over it, and that he was free to go where ever he wanted, because he was a free agent and didn't owe them anything, then just replay that in your mind and move on.

At least you have a better team then the Cavs did when he screwed them to help your franchise win championships.

BlueandWhite
11-10-2014, 03:15 PM
Some of you heat fans have it right, Lebron had a GREAT run with you guys, amazing teams and now he's gone. You still have a good team, hold nothing against lebron, and are thankful for his time with the team. To be resentful is absolutely mind blowing. You acquired him essentially through free agency. And lost him the same way. Without respecting his choice to do whats best for him, and exercise his right to play with who he wants, you would never have had him. I don't like lebron, but he IS the best player in the world. If he said, I will come play for the Raptors, take you to 4 NBA Finals, and win 2, I would be ok with that.....just sayin

HoopsDrive
11-10-2014, 03:20 PM
It should be pretty obvious that LeBron is concerned with more than just what team gives him the best chance at a title. He's one of the few athletes capable of building an international brand and he's making the most of it. His move to Miami and return Cleveland helped him achieve immense notoriety, to the point that even people that don't care about bball know who he is and what he's done. There will always be great players in any sport, but not every great player can build a brand outside the sport he excels at. LeBron is one such player, joining the ranks of MJ, Ronaldinho, Tiger Woods, Beckham, Michael Phelps, Mike Tyson, etc.

Whether you like the way he's building his brand or not is up to you. He's doing what's best for his own interest which we all do. Judging by how just the mention of his name stirs people's emotions it's clear he's quite successful in what he's doing. Regardless, as a bball fan, even if I think he's a douche, I'd absolutely love to have him on my team. He did win 2 titles for Miami after all.


This is kindof like taking somebody's chick and then getting mad when she turns around and cheats on you....

:laugh2:

ghettosean
11-10-2014, 03:26 PM
This is kindof like taking somebody's chick and then getting mad when she turns around and cheats on you....

This is the post of the year!!!

Kicks For Grits
11-10-2014, 03:35 PM
Here is the truth, whether you want to accept it or not. This has nothing to do with me being a Miami fan. This has everything to do with common sense and rational logic. So, before you jump to a hasty conclusion about this telling of truth, you should at least listen to it in its entirety and absorb the facts that I will present to you. If you think this is too long to read, this intro/synopsis tells basically what this is about:

Intro/synopsis:
LeBron helped the Cavs "play defense" against the HEAT. He made his decision to leave weeks before it had gone public. The Cavs could have come away possibly keeping Jack, Zeller, Hawes, or any number of other combinations adding outside free agents with more money to spend by working with Miami in a sign and trade, but willingly chose the alternative to have a weaker team in hopes of killing the HEAT and getting their draft pick that would be unprotected in 2 years if the HEAT were a bottom 10 team. He was willing to partake in the plan because he felt disrespected by Riley while playing at a GOAT level on a discounted contract winning the organization championships. Gilbert wanted to watch the HEAT fall from grace just as his team did


Full retelling of the truth:
Lets start with a general timeline of events with sources, and facts with quotes from real people what happened:

June 23rd, 2014
James' wife sends out a message that says; “Home sweet Home the countdown is real #330.” (source (http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/06/lebron_james_wife_savannah_hea.html))
July 5th, 2014
-According to Sports Illustrated managing editor Chris Stone, LeBron James' people reached out to Lee Jenkins about the essay of his decision (source (http://deadspin.com/who-actually-got-the-lebron-james-scoop-1604853768))
July 6th, 2014
-According to Dion Waiters, he stated that James reached out to him through a phone call 5 days before his official announcement. Although he did not specifically state his intentions, he was told to be ready. (source (http://triangleoffense.com/news/dion-waiters-says-he-knew-lebron-was-coming-home-days-before-his-announcement/))
July 9th, 2014
-Cavaliers trade Jarrett Jack and Tyler Zeller to the Nets in a preemptive move to clear cap space for a max contract offer (source (http://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/09/cavs-trade-jack-nets-cap-space))
-Chris Sheridan states with certainty, that LeBron James is "100%" going back to Cleveland (source (http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/07/10/chris-sheridan-live-on-kiley-booms-lebron-james-is-100-coming-back-to-cleveland/))
July 11th, 2014
-James officially announces his decision to the public. (source (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203027/lebron-james-says-returning-cleveland-cavaliers))


When exactly do you think LeBron made his decision and why?

LeBron made his decision clearly weeks before the final meeting with the Miami HEAT. He was clearly upset with Pat Riley's public address telling James he was pissed at the idea of him leaving, and to "stay if you've got the guts (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/heat/2014/06/19/pat-riley-news-conference-lebron-james-dwyane-wade-free-agency-miami/10877283/)" after the Finals loss. Sometime between that June 20th press conference by Riley, he decided with his family to go back to Cleveland, and his wife accidentally leaked the idea 3 days later June 23rd. His decision this early is further evidenced by his complete shut down of communication between him and Riley throughout free agency. Although James stated in his exit press conference the HEAT need to "get better at every position" (http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article1966724.html), he chose not to communicate with the man doing the rebuilding. Riley stated that throughout free agency from July 1st until his official announcement, "I sent him a lot of emails and texts, I was communicating a lot with him. No response." (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-lebron-james-s073014-story.html) With the apparent decline of Wade's health, the aging veterans on the verge of retirement, and the disbelief the HEAT had the financial ability to add legitimate impact players while barely affording to keep the core, and the Cavs holding the cards to swing big trades, it was the perfect storm.

Okay, even if I believe your version of the facts, so what? He can take however long he wants to make a decision. Why do you think he wanted Miami to suck? What is the motivation?

The Miami HEAT headed into free agency with an NBA record $55M in cap space (http://www.365rundown.com/miami-heat-create-nba-record-55m-cap-space/) and had flexibility to create more. There were a number of free agents available to sign and improve the team at critical positions of need. LeBron along with his inner circle and Cavs organization wanted the market to dry up. With Chris Bosh a pending free agent, his inner circle believed that by waiting until July 11th by then he would surely take the offer from the Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203334/houston-rockets-believe-chris-bosh-sign-soon), and leave the HEAT holding the pieces. The motivation is that the Cavs at the time owned the HEAT's 2015 NBA draft pick with only a top 10 protection (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/11/5891137/lebron-james-cavaliers-draft-pick-miami-heat). The prospect that he could build a contender with the Cavs, while simultaneously eliminating a proven veteran threat, and possibly adding another high level rookie prospect next summer as icing to the cake, was just an enticing strategy him and his people. The Cavs would (as now seen) have some growing pains as they work to gain chemistry and teach some of their guys the sacrifice of playing winning basketball, and have their head coach adjust to the NBA. If they could eliminate a team they "might" have to go through in an already weak Eastern Conference, it would have been great for them, and also give Dan Gilbert some added vindication watching the HEAT free fall just as his team did 4 years earlier. Gilbert and the Cavs wanted Riley and the HEAT to feel just as stupid as he felt about putting their hopes in keeping James and other free agents, only to see them walk out the door and go from contender to laughing stock in one quick swipe.

So you expect me to believe he and the Cavs planned all this out to "stick it" to the HEAT and "possibly" add a rookie? Really?


Yes, because the details are clearer when you factor in the details of his official departure and signing. Within 24 hours of making his decision to join the Cavs, Chris Bosh recommits to the HEAT, and Luol Deng also committed to the HEAT. In case some of you forgot, Deng played for the Cavs last year. LeBron James was leaving the HEAT to join the Cavs. Perfect chance to set up a sign and trade, right? Wrong. The Cavs had the opportunity to get the $5.3M mid-level exception as well as $2.2M bi-annual exception, and further get to keep the Bird Rights to free agents such as Spencer Hawes if they instead signed and traded Deng for James. That's even disregarding the idea that if the Cavs were open to any sign and trade option at all, they may not have hadto trade Jarrett Jack or Tyler Zeller. They couldn't keep all three of Jack, Zeller, Hawes, but could have kept one or two depending on the timing. Instead of trading with Miami for James they instead ended up with only the $2.7M room exception (Mike Miller). The idea was that if they traded with the HEAT, they may be giving them a trade exception (depending on James and Deng's salary gap), but the real issue was that it would allow them to keep the Bird Rights to all the players they themselves were trying to leech away (Allen, Jones, Birdman). Even if they had the mid-level and bi-annual, that probably wouldn't be enough. Although they could offer up to $5.3M to one player, the HEAT could essentially overpay anything they wanted to Allen, Jones, or Birdman "just because" and keep them away from Cleveland.

In conclusion:

I just felt like I wanted to tell it from my perspective how I saw things. I expect this thread to be locked, moved, or overrun by trolls within 24 hours, I don't expect more than 5% of logical responses from non-biased posters who don't hate James or the Miami HEAT. The purpose was to tell about what type of person LeBron James is and how he treated the team that helped him get over the championship hump. It's also to give the side of why some HEAT fans now dislike LeBron, and aren't simply "salty". I have never been angry that he left, but I am annoyed at how he left, and I wanted to present some facts of the events why I believe some still are angry. I will always respect the 4 years he played for my favorite team. Speaking for myself, it is much easier to move past my dislike for James because of Riley's great job at picking up the pieces and delivering a team I can still enjoy. But the Cavs are now a rival/disliked team just like the Knicks, Bulls, and Celtics have been a rival/disliked team as a HEAT fan the last 20 years.



you wrote a whole bunch of crap that nobody gave two thoughts to about reading.

in short, your fans are a joke (arrive late, leave early, entitlement) your fan base is a joke. All the fans that dont show up now are wearing LeBron Cavs jerseys. Miami doesn't need to be relevant in the NBA, Miami isnt that big of a deal to anyone anywhere else. It is not NY, LA, Bos, Chi, Hou it is a vacation town with poor support for their franchises. Frankly Miami should be stripped of all pro teams

SportsFanatic10
11-10-2014, 03:42 PM
you wrote a whole bunch of crap that nobody gave two thoughts to about reading.

in short, your fans are a joke (arrive late, leave early, entitlement) your fan base is a joke. All the fans that dont show up now are wearing LeBron Cavs jerseys. Miami doesn't need to be relevant in the NBA, Miami isnt that big of a deal to anyone anywhere else. It is not NY, LA, Bos, Chi, Hou it is a vacation town with poor support for their franchises. Frankly Miami should be stripped of all pro teams

stfu...what a pile of crap that post was.

here's some facts for your ignorant ***

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2014/08/miami_heat_fans.php

Big Zo
11-10-2014, 03:44 PM
you wrote a whole bunch of crap that nobody gave two thoughts to about reading.

in short, your fans are a joke (arrive late, leave early, entitlement) your fan base is a joke. All the fans that dont show up now are wearing LeBron Cavs jerseys. Miami doesn't need to be relevant in the NBA, Miami isnt that big of a deal to anyone anywhere else. It is not NY, LA, Bos, Chi, Hou it is a vacation town with poor support for their franchises. Frankly Miami should be stripped of all pro teams

You didn't care, but you still opened the thread, and posted a long pissy rant. Lol

sturm
11-10-2014, 03:47 PM
Great MJ ones told. Its players league. They wins in the end. Organisation just helps them. With this logic LeBron should thank the Heat organisation. He got 2 trophys and 2 mvps. Its his benefit. He brought his *** at that stage of fame with help of our organisation and great teammates. now you think he is the god and others just had luck to having him on our team. WRONG

Instead he should us and heat organisation thank. not just verbal, with his action to leave too.

ps: sorry for my poor english

WaDe03
11-10-2014, 03:54 PM
Not to be disrespectful but lol at you for expecting anything different. To me it was obvious. Your supposed to know your history. And seriously your excited with this core? I want what your smoking!

Well we are 5-2 right now and just smacked Dallas on their home court so yea I'm excited.

WaDe03
11-10-2014, 03:57 PM
People are so stupid. I'm sorry I know I might get in trouble for saying that but let's get real. Can the cavs have a few games to get comfortable with each other geeez. If anyone honestly thinks the cavs will not be a really good team should beat themselves with a table leg. Its insane the amount of dumbness people can show.

Guess what, if it turns out Irving or waiters are not a good fit then moves will be made. That's sports for you.

Y'all will be good but the team already has problems they need to work out I never said y'all wouldn't be good but the Cavs are being overrated. I honestly am hoping they lose and Kevin Love goes to LA this summer like he's considering so all of you Cavs fans will go back in the hole you crawled out of this summer.

mjm07
11-10-2014, 03:59 PM
Is Kicks for Grits brian windhorst ?

Big Zo
11-10-2014, 04:16 PM
Is Kicks for Grits brian windhorst ?

Either him, or Bill Simmons.

WITZ
11-10-2014, 04:18 PM
Y'all will be good but the team already has problems they need to work out I never said y'all wouldn't be good but the Cavs are being overrated. I honestly am hoping they lose and Kevin Love goes to LA this summer like he's considering so all of you Cavs fans will go back in the hole you crawled out of this summer.

Salty much :laugh2: but yeah your right Love will probably bolt just like kyrie was suppose to bolt the first chance he got . And no star players will ever come to Cleveland. And lets not forget Lebron will never play for the cavs as long as gilbert is the owner.

Arch Stanton
11-10-2014, 04:27 PM
Salty much :laugh2: but yeah your right Love will probably bolt just like kyrie was suppose to bolt the first chance he got . And no star players will ever come to Cleveland. And lets not forget Lebron will never play for the cavs as long as gilbert is the owner.

What do you mean???... after 5 games according to the media: Kyrie and LeBron hate each other, Dion hates America, and Kevin Love is going to the Lakers.:)

Rockice_8
11-10-2014, 04:43 PM
Lets try and do this somewhat seriously.

Lebron left CLE to playe with 2 superstars in MIA after being surrounded by poor talent.

He then left MIA who had a bunch of old vets, Bosh and a broken down Wade for the chance to play with a young talent in Irving and Love both way younger stars (well Love is a star) in their prime.

He left teams on the decline for greener pastures and people are what? Shocked? Confused?

He wants his team that he's going to to be in the best position when he gets there and doesn't care about the team he's leaving. He's a self centered douche and has always been about himself. Stop acting shocked when he does something for himself and screws over anyone or any team along his way.

albertajaysfan
11-10-2014, 06:05 PM
I agree that he made his decision in advance. I also agree that he didn't handle it well.

Not sure why anyone would be surprised to see him act in a selfish manner. He did worse when he left for Miam

The part I don't agree with is that he intentionally tried to screw over the Heat. The explanation is way to conjectural and convoluted. Generally when you need to make things that complicated it is because they aren't real.

To be honest I think they Heat will be better off in the long run because they won't be so top heavy. Instead they will achieve more balance that doesn't rely so heavily on one guy.

I also think that somehow some way the Cavs will get screwed in this situation. I have no idea how, it is just a gut feeling.

Jamiecballer
11-10-2014, 06:12 PM
I agree he made his decision in advance. Don't see how its selfish either.

WaDe03
11-10-2014, 06:14 PM
Salty much :laugh2: but yeah your right Love will probably bolt just like kyrie was suppose to bolt the first chance he got . And no star players will ever come to Cleveland. And lets not forget Lebron will never play for the cavs as long as gilbert is the owner.

Not salty at all I said I'm glad LeBron left. But as I said all of you Cavs fans came out of your hole whenever LeBron went back, you were nowhere to be found the last 4 years and now for some reason you are all so cocky like the Cavs have ever accomplished anything. I just think it's funny.

numba1CHANGsta
11-10-2014, 06:19 PM
The truth of the matter is this....IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK JABRONI!!

prodigy
11-10-2014, 06:20 PM
People are so stupid. I'm sorry I know I might get in trouble for saying that but let's get real. Can the cavs have a few games to get comfortable with each other geeez. If anyone honestly thinks the cavs will not be a really good team should beat themselves with a table leg. Its insane the amount of dumbness people can show.

Guess what, if it turns out Irving or waiters are not a good fit then moves will be made. That's sports for you.

Y'all will be good but the team already has problems they need to work out I never said y'all wouldn't be good but the Cavs are being overrated. I honestly am hoping they lose and Kevin Love goes to LA this summer like he's considering so all of you Cavs fans will go back in the hole you crawled out of this summer.

Coming from a heat fan lol Once wade gets hurt again and there's no lebron to save the day you will be gone.

What are the problems cavs are having? Passing the ball right? Which is the number one issue you would have with a new team. If last game was any indication they are getting closer.

Don't give me crap about waiters not happy, Irving this blah blah.... those are just rumors and waiters was very happy after last game.

Slug3
11-10-2014, 06:21 PM
Salty much :laugh2: but yeah your right Love will probably bolt just like kyrie was suppose to bolt the first chance he got . And no star players will ever come to Cleveland. And lets not forget Lebron will never play for the cavs as long as gilbert is the owner.

The only way Love leaves is if he wanted to go to LA in the first place (which I don't really think he wanted to).

prodigy
11-10-2014, 06:23 PM
Salty much :laugh2: but yeah your right Love will probably bolt just like kyrie was suppose to bolt the first chance he got . And no star players will ever come to Cleveland. And lets not forget Lebron will never play for the cavs as long as gilbert is the owner.

What do you mean???... after 5 games according to the media: Kyrie and LeBron hate each other, Dion hates America, and Kevin Love is going to the Lakers.:)

This lol

JasonJohnHorn
11-10-2014, 07:34 PM
So, let me get this straight. Your theory is that LBJ made his choice prior to announcing it?

MIND BLOWN!!!

I always thought people announced their decisions in real time.

WaDe03
11-10-2014, 07:59 PM
Coming from a heat fan lol Once wade gets hurt again and there's no lebron to save the day you will be gone.

What are the problems cavs are having? Passing the ball right? Which is the number one issue you would have with a new team. If last game was any indication they are getting closer.

Don't give me crap about waiters not happy, Irving this blah blah.... those are just rumors and waiters was very happy after last game.

Yes coming from a Heat fan. You say that like we've been hiding or something like you Cavs fans is pretty obvious when all of you randomly start participating in threads with your cocky remarks. Let us know when they accomplish anything.

As for Wade if you're sitting around waiting for him to get hurt I feel sorry for you. He looks great so far, doesn't look hurt at all and is also playing better than anyone on the Cavs. Him and bosh are actually.

Dade County
11-10-2014, 11:07 PM
Thank you?

I don't get this. You guys win two championships back to back, go to the finals 4 times in a row, and he should be saying thank you? You realize you had the best player in the world with Lebron. Wade wasn't playing well and was injured. Bosh did his thing, but you cannot compare him to Lebron.

There is no way the Heat would be in the finals (let alone win championships) the last four years if it wasn't for Lebron.

And without the HEAT organization doing what they do... Lbj might still be winless in the Finals.

Miami would have used that freed up money on another players. Lbj would have still been on the Cav's, if he signed back with them back then; and the HEAT might have still been in the Finals. More balance team all around (but I am not saying that the HEAt would have been better off).

All I 'm saying is that, Pat will stil have found away to push this team over the top, and bring championships to Miami.

mightybosstone
11-11-2014, 12:24 AM
I read the whole post, OP. And while you made some decent points, I think it's all pretty paranoid. Lebron is not perfect, but the man is not a monster. I have an extremely hard time believing he would be that vindictive and go out of his way to screw over the franchise that earned him his only two titles and treated him like a god in the last four years.

Instead of letting these paranoid thoughts fester and being bitter about Lebron's exit, why not be insanely grateful to what the guy gave you? Any other fanbase in the league would kill to have their team go to four titles in four years and win two championships. And it's not like Lebron left the roster in shambles. The Heat still have a talented roster that could very well compete in the Eastern Conference the next two years.

As for the draft pick, that's probably the most asinine point of the entire post as it's very unlikely that the pick would help the Cavs win a title over the course of Lebron's next 4-5 years in the league. I get that it hurts, OP. But you have to let it go. They won two titles and gave you some freakishly fun basketball to watch over that four years. But it's over now. All good things must come to an end.

Cal827
11-11-2014, 12:28 AM
What do you mean???... after 5 games according to the media: Kyrie and LeBron hate each other, Dion hates America, and Kevin Love is going to the Lakers.:)

:laugh:

HiphopRelated
11-11-2014, 09:46 AM
Actually, without Lebron, its very doubtful that Bosh is on the Heat today. Heat fans should still be grateful for Lebron. The gift that keeps giving! lol

Bosh was always coming, that rumor was in the pipe for a very very long time. Nobody was even thinking about Lebron until it started to look realistic