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LanceUpperCut
11-09-2014, 11:52 AM
Figured we needed one.

I like Mozgov for Hayes and are 2015 first.

Mozgov might be starting for the Nuggets but he's been getting only 16-18 mins. per, no one wants McGee and Jusuf Nurkic needs minutes so Mozgov could be a trade candidate. Two years plus hopefully more for a guy who would be one of the best back-up C in the NBA wold be worth giving up a 1st for me. We have two very young inexperienced guys who might not even get on the floor this year except for some garbage minutes, along with Daniels coming here next season. Losing a non lottery pick next season will not hurt us that bad, unless it would be used for a bigger blockbuster type deal this season.

North Yorker
11-09-2014, 12:00 PM
Just posted this in the GT but is meant for here.

Bebe+ 1st+ maybe something else for Rudy Gobert. Good, young, cheap for the next few years, fills the shot blocking, rebounding need.

canzano55
11-09-2014, 12:03 PM
I still say we trade for Kobe lol.

To my credit it would be a fantastic business decision (albeit not a very good basketball decision).

Miltstar
11-09-2014, 01:19 PM
I still say we trade for Kobe lol.

To my credit it would be a fantastic business decision (albeit not a very good basketball decision).

worst idea i've heard in awhile, you do realize he has like a 30 million dollar contract right?

koreancabbage
11-09-2014, 01:21 PM
Jeff Green. Fields (big expiring) + first + second

Lets push Ross to the backup SG.

Tmath
11-09-2014, 01:24 PM
Just posted this in the GT but is meant for here.

Bebe+ 1st+ maybe something else for Rudy Gobert. Good, young, cheap for the next few years, fills the shot blocking, rebounding need.

I doubt thats gonna get it done. I would think Utah thinks pretty highly of Gobert.

Tmath
11-09-2014, 01:30 PM
Jeff Green. Fields (big expiring) + first + second

Lets push Ross to the backup SG.

Jeff Green is talented offensively, but he is a tweener. He can't guard the SF or PF effectively.

I don't think its worth giving up a 1st rounder for a guy like Green. You want to use those in bigger packages to potentially get a star.

I think we are ok for now with Ross & JJ as the SF's and with Lou as the backup SG.

JJ has another year left on his contract. Thats enough time to hopefully groom Bruno into a rotational player.

North Yorker
11-09-2014, 02:01 PM
Jeff Green is talented offensively, but he is a tweener. He can't guard the SF or PF effectively.

I don't think its worth giving up a 1st rounder for a guy like Green. You want to use those in bigger packages to potentially get a star.

I think we are ok for now with Ross & JJ as the SF's and with Lou as the backup SG.

JJ has another year left on his contract. Thats enough time to hopefully groom Bruno into a rotational player.

I remember Green playing great defensively vs Lebron the past few years when I watched him. I wouldnt give up a 1st for him either but I think he would be a nice add for this team.

North Yorker
11-09-2014, 02:02 PM
I doubt thats gonna get it done. I would think Utah thinks pretty highly of Gobert.

Yea, we don't really match up too well trade wise with Utah. Was struggling to find a 3rd piece that made sense for both sides.

mike_noodles
11-09-2014, 02:15 PM
In all honesty, the only things I want right now are a legit backup center and a replacement for Amir's injuries. This can be the same player. Other than that, I don't see much point in tinkering until we're ready to make the big splash.

ink
11-09-2014, 02:23 PM
In all honesty, the only things I want right now are a legit backup center and a replacement for Amir's injuries. This can be the same player. Other than that, I don't see much point in tinkering until we're ready to make the big splash.

I'm hoping that big splash is a 4.

BHF
11-09-2014, 02:27 PM
I would take Jusuf Nurkic over Mozgov and McGee, he is 7 foot and 290 has very quick feet and hands. He has lots to learn but his potential is huge and in my opinion he already has a better post game than Val.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdJLdgZpD_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXGZbd2azd4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiF_jSda6cw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl106tFUl40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trMYm0myASg

Some of these numbers are not that impressive but he gets limited time behind Mozgov and McGee.

albertajaysfan
11-09-2014, 04:08 PM
I would take Jusuf Nurkic over Mozgov and McGee, he is 7 foot and 290 has very quick feet and hands. He has lots to learn but his potential is huge and in my opinion he already has a better post game than Val.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdJLdgZpD_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXGZbd2azd4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiF_jSda6cw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl106tFUl40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trMYm0myASg

Some of these numbers are not that impressive but he gets limited time behind Mozgov and McGee.

Pretty sure Denver are really high on him. I can see them trading Mozgov away if they continue to underperform. I am not interested in giving up a first round pick for a back up though.

The only tinkering trade I want would involve moving one of Hayes or Hansbrough and a 2nd rounder for a back up C or insurance in case Amir needs extended time off.

I really like the idea of John Henson for Hansbrough and a 2nd. Although that does restrict our cap space in the offseason. Probably makes it impossible to sign a player to the max.

Even if we renounced all our cap holds we would probably only be left with 14-15mil instead of 16-17mil which could be a huge difference.

LanceUpperCut
11-09-2014, 04:38 PM
I would take Jusuf Nurkic over Mozgov and McGee, he is 7 foot and 290 has very quick feet and hands. He has lots to learn but his potential is huge and in my opinion he already has a better post game than Val.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdJLdgZpD_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXGZbd2azd4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiF_jSda6cw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl106tFUl40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trMYm0myASg

Some of these numbers are not that impressive but he gets limited time behind Mozgov and McGee.

Pretty sure Denver are really high on him. I can see them trading Mozgov away if they continue to underperform. I am not interested in giving up a first round pick for a back up though.

The only tinkering trade I want would involve moving one of Hayes or Hansbrough and a 2nd rounder for a back up C or insurance in case Amir needs extended time off.

I really like the idea of John Henson for Hansbrough and a 2nd. Although that does restrict our cap space in the offseason. Probably makes it impossible to sign a player to the max.

Even if we renounced all our cap holds we would probably only be left with 14-15mil instead of 16-17mil which could be a huge difference.

No way in hell would the bucks give up Henson for that, he would cost a 1st for sure and would be worth it. Probably be more like Hans, Bebe and a 1st.

deaner
11-09-2014, 04:38 PM
Guys that are in the know with Philly say the team is in desperate need of both a PG and a C. If you ever wanted to get rid of Hayes' deal this year this would be it.

BHF
11-09-2014, 04:41 PM
Guys that are in the know with Philly say the team is in desperate need of both a PG and a C. If you ever wanted to get rid of Hayes' deal this year this would be it.

I would give him for free just to make a roster spot.

FriedTofuz
11-09-2014, 04:58 PM
We should get Okafor man, we need a center to rebound and block shots with Amir's health being inconsistent.

albertajaysfan
11-09-2014, 06:40 PM
No way in hell would the bucks give up Henson for that, he would cost a 1st for sure and would be worth it. Probably be more like Hans, Bebe and a 1st.

If they value him so much why is he only getting 13 minutes a night in his 3rd season?

Edit: Bebe and a 1st is ridiculous. Bebe and a 2nd I would consider. Would eliminate the hit to our cap space we would take in the offseason.

LanceUpperCut
11-09-2014, 07:51 PM
If they value him so much why is he only getting 13 minutes a night in his 3rd season?

Edit: Bebe and a 1st is ridiculous. Bebe and a 2nd I would consider. Would eliminate the hit to our cap space we would take in the offseason.

Yeah Bebe and a 1st would be a little much but Henson is worth a lot more then Hans and a 2nd. Maybe they would do Hayes and are 2015 1st for Henson and their 2015 2nd. We save about 4 million, get Henson the young rim protector with upside and lose probably 10-12 slots in the draft next year. Then next season we could have Bebe and Henson battle it out and loser gets traded.

North Yorker
11-09-2014, 08:04 PM
If they value him so much why is he only getting 13 minutes a night in his 3rd season?

Edit: Bebe and a 1st is ridiculous. Bebe and a 2nd I would consider. Would eliminate the hit to our cap space we would take in the offseason.

I would do Bebe + a 1st for Henson in a millisecond. Guy has all the tools to be a very good 2 way PF.

LanceUpperCut
11-09-2014, 08:12 PM
Could go big and try to grab Horford.

Fields, Hayes, Bruno and a 2015 1st for Horford.

koreancabbage
11-09-2014, 08:39 PM
Could go big and try to grab Horford.

Fields, Hayes, Bruno and a 2015 1st for Horford.

I like Horford - and we would move him to his natural position at PF. He would probably eat up most of remaining cap when we try to resign him cuz he's getting the max max.

mike_noodles
11-09-2014, 09:24 PM
I'm hoping that big splash is a 4.

Me too. I just hope they don't whittle away assets for small upgrades. I would prefer to see them packaged for a big time play.

albertajaysfan
11-09-2014, 10:11 PM
I like Horford - and we would move him to his natural position at PF. He would probably eat up most of remaining cap when we try to resign him cuz he's getting the max max.

I have no problem having no cap space if we are adding a player such as Horford.

Edit: Although his health is a concern.

albertajaysfan
11-09-2014, 10:13 PM
Yeah Bebe and a 1st would be a little much but Henson is worth a lot more then Hans and a 2nd. Maybe they would do Hayes and are 2015 1st for Henson and their 2015 2nd. We save about 4 million, get Henson the young rim protector with upside and lose probably 10-12 slots in the draft next year. Then next season we could have Bebe and Henson battle it out and loser gets traded.


I would do Bebe + a 1st for Henson in a millisecond. Guy has all the tools to be a very good 2 way PF.

I actually would combine these two ideas.

Bebe and a 1st for Henson and a 2nd. That actually helps us cap space wise because we would no longer have a guaranteed 1st round contract on the books.

Miltstar
11-09-2014, 10:23 PM
Could go big and try to grab Horford.

Fields, Hayes, Bruno and a 2015 1st for Horford.

You never know what bringing in a guy like that would do to the chemistry, also why would Atlanta even consider that deal?

LanceUpperCut
11-09-2014, 11:48 PM
You never know what bringing in a guy like that would do to the chemistry, also why would Atlanta even consider that deal?

Well it might take a bit more but Horford's value isn't all that high right now, I suppose the next 10-15 games and he would be easier to gauge. The guys missed about a 130-140 games over the last three years. Two 1st rounders and two big expirings is definitely a good starting point. I wouldn't want to give up much more as a Raps fan.

smith&wesson
11-10-2014, 01:10 AM
Tross +Fields & a first round pick for Iggy

koreancabbage
11-10-2014, 01:23 AM
Tross +Fields & a first round pick for Iggy

Warriors would be laughing to the bank on that one. so no, I wouldn't do it. Iggy won't get this team over the hump.

smith&wesson
11-10-2014, 01:33 AM
Warriors would be laughing to the bank on that one. so no, I wouldn't do it. Iggy won't get this team over the hump.

how about David Lee ?? I read, Steve Kerr said he might let Green remain the starter even when Lee gets back from injury.

Freakazoid
11-10-2014, 01:52 AM
how about David Lee ?? I read, Steve Kerr said he might let Green remain the starter even when Lee gets back from injury.

Don't really need his offense though.

Sanyo
11-10-2014, 02:04 AM
I like Horford - and we would move him to his natural position at PF. He would probably eat up most of remaining cap when we try to resign him cuz he's getting the max max.

PF Natural? He hasn't played there his entire career. But I do like Horford and if they can see if he'd consider moving to PF, then I'm all for it. Millsap is also available next year.

FriedTofuz
11-10-2014, 02:09 AM
Why does every player need the max. It's ridiculous if horford get's the max..

Sanyo
11-10-2014, 02:19 AM
Thaddeus Young may be another guy you can target -- Always been a fan, a classic PF...doable maybe around $10-11 mil per roughly which is about what Fields and Hayes cost. There may be better options than him, but in terms of free agent, he may be reasonable...

Sanyo
11-10-2014, 02:25 AM
Why does every player need the max. It's ridiculous if horford get's the max..

Agreed I don't see him getting a max. But he will be paid very well, around 15 mil per

albertajaysfan
11-10-2014, 02:56 AM
how about David Lee ?? I read, Steve Kerr said he might let Green remain the starter even when Lee gets back from injury.

I think that is just being done to achieve greater balance between their 1st and 2nd units. Not because they don't value his contributions.

The Warriors are going for it this season, rightfully so, and I don't see them doing any trades midseason unless it is to address a perceived weakness.

On top of that as mentioned we need a defensive big if anything. Not more offence.

albertajaysfan
11-10-2014, 02:57 AM
PF Natural? He hasn't played there his entire career. But I do like Horford and if they can see if he'd consider moving to PF, then I'm all for it. Millsap is also available next year.

Only reason he has been a C his whole career is because Atlanta hasn't had any better options.

koreancabbage
11-10-2014, 08:56 AM
Why does every player need the max. It's ridiculous if horford get's the max..

because of what we are seeing from the likes of players getting huge contracts.

Safe to say that everyone would want Horford if they can afford him. Solid 15-9 guy.

koreancabbage
11-10-2014, 08:57 AM
Agreed I don't see him getting a max. But he will be paid very well, around 15 mil per

he's already getting the 12M per. He's severely underpaid for his talents. Only thing that is keeping him from exploding into a bonafide star player are injuries. He hasn't played a full season yet I believe.

North Yorker
11-10-2014, 10:00 AM
Boston fans on Green:





I hope we can find a trade partner for Green. Time to move on from him too. Bass doesn't have a role on a rebuild project either. He should be moved to a contender.


I'll move him for an expiring and a future 2nd just to cool off the offense... He is playing very well, and seems to be on a mission... I am happy that he has shown 100% when it comes to his heart issues...


I'd give up expirings+ a future 2nd for him. If Ross keeps up the good play we may not need him that much, but he'd be a great option to have and he's in a contract year (sort of, he has a PO next season).

aman_13
11-10-2014, 11:00 AM
I know we don't need offensive big but Bass would be a great fit here.

ink
11-10-2014, 11:28 AM
how about David Lee ?? I read, Steve Kerr said he might let Green remain the starter even when Lee gets back from injury.

I think that is just being done to achieve greater balance between their 1st and 2nd units. Not because they don't value his contributions.

The Warriors are going for it this season, rightfully so, and I don't see them doing any trades midseason unless it is to address a perceived weakness.

On top of that as mentioned we need a defensive big if anything. Not more offence.

With a dominant post player and a revamped offence that utilized him, we'd be a different and better team. Thinking outside the current box ...

Miltstar
11-10-2014, 11:55 AM
Don't know why everyone's so willing to cut loose T-Ross... kid is a stud in the making

Jamiecballer
11-10-2014, 11:57 AM
^ part of this teams success IMO is that they are working with the tendency's and personality traits of the players. instead of trying to change Derozan and Lowry into being more pass first, they are embracing their strengths and loading up on front court players who won't challenge their need for the ball, who hustle and create second chance opportunities, these types of things.

that's why i disagree completely with your post. i don't think that makes this team better at all to add an offensive minded skilled big. i think it would be more likely to break the mojo than enhance it.

damn you Miltstar that was meant to reference INK's post!!!

ink
11-10-2014, 12:04 PM
^ part of this teams success IMO is that they are working with the tendency's and personality traits of the players. instead of trying to change Derozan and Lowry into being more pass first, they are embracing their strengths and loading up on front court players who won't challenge their need for the ball, who hustle and create second chance opportunities, these types of things.

that's why i disagree completely with your post. i don't think that makes this team better at all to add an offensive minded skilled big. i think it would be more likely to break the mojo than enhance it.

damn you Miltstar that was meant to reference INK's post!!!

You may be right that they're tailoring the offence to the two guards but if that's true it just creates more situations where the ball will stick. i.e. if that's the plan, it's a stagnant plan, we can't have the ball movement everyone wants AND just give the ball to players who "need the ball". Too easy for an elite defence to stop ...

deaner
11-10-2014, 12:20 PM
^ part of this teams success IMO is that they are working with the tendency's and personality traits of the players. instead of trying to change Derozan and Lowry into being more pass first, they are embracing their strengths and loading up on front court players who won't challenge their need for the ball, who hustle and create second chance opportunities, these types of things.

that's why i disagree completely with your post. i don't think that makes this team better at all to add an offensive minded skilled big. i think it would be more likely to break the mojo than enhance it.

damn you Miltstar that was meant to reference INK's post!!!

I'm hoping that Masai sees the need to greater efficiently going forward. I wouldn't petsonally be happy with a backcourt driven offense. There will be days when only a front court will pull us through.

Jamiecballer
11-10-2014, 12:58 PM
I'm hoping that Masai sees the need to greater efficiently going forward. I wouldn't petsonally be happy with a backcourt driven offense. There will be days when only a front court will pull us through.

well.... i think people are getting a little too caught up on style here. ultimately you want to score as many points as possible and this team is currently sitting 1st in the NBA in points per game. if you have volume scorers at the guard positions and your bigs create a lot of second chances and score in an efficient manner you've got a formula for success. it's a strategy.

albertajaysfan
11-10-2014, 01:13 PM
Yeah Bebe and a 1st would be a little much but Henson is worth a lot more then Hans and a 2nd. Maybe they would do Hayes and are 2015 1st for Henson and their 2015 2nd. We save about 4 million, get Henson the young rim protector with upside and lose probably 10-12 slots in the draft next year. Then next season we could have Bebe and Henson battle it out and loser gets traded.


Boston fans on Green:



I'd give up expirings+ a future 2nd for him. If Ross keeps up the good play we may not need him that much, but he'd be a great option to have and he's in a contract year (sort of, he has a PO next season).

Agreed. I would be all over that.

LanceUpperCut
11-10-2014, 01:15 PM
well.... i think people are getting a little too caught up style here. ultimately you want to score as many points as possible and this team is currently sitting 1st in the NBA in points per game. if you have volume scorers at the guard positions and your bigs score their points at a very high level of efficiency like ours do the end result is pretty efficient.

I agree but a good PF/C off the bench that has some interior scoring would be great. I just don't trust the Lou, GV, PP trio to score all the time their will be some nights that they will have a hard time scoring where a big you could just feed in the post and let him go to work would be nice. Maybe a guy like Scola would be an easy grab.

deaner
11-10-2014, 01:37 PM
well.... i think people are getting a little too caught up style here. ultimately you want to score as many points as possible and this team is currently sitting 1st in the NBA in points per game. if you have volume scorers at the guard positions and your bigs score their points at a very high level of efficiency like ours do the end result is pretty efficient.

Agreed. Man what would a clean up guy like Drummond do for us. We lack elite rebounding.

Jamiecballer
11-10-2014, 01:51 PM
I agree but a good PF/C off the bench that has some interior scoring would be great. I just don't trust the Lou, GV, PP trio to score all the time their will be some nights that they will have a hard time scoring where a big you could just feed in the post and let him go to work would be nice. Maybe a guy like Scola would be an easy grab.

i agree. i don't agree with the clamor for a starting 4/5 who is a good scorer but to balance out the production coming from our bench i agree.

Miltstar
11-10-2014, 02:06 PM
Agreed. Man what would a clean up guy like Drummond do for us. We lack elite rebounding.

Our guards are pretty good rebounders, Jonas and Amir are both solid... Hansbrough really gets after it. I'm sure every team in the league would like to add a guy like Drummond, but their aren't many guys like that available

deaner
11-10-2014, 02:13 PM
Collectively we get out rebounded most nights. I don't really understand it because as you said we do have rebounders that play minutes. If there were upgrades... I hope that would be a point of emphasis

Even Bebe over Hayes minutes would be a start.

Sanyo
11-10-2014, 02:53 PM
I think its time to play Bebe over Hayes -- if Bebe isnt better than Hayes at this point, I dont know why the hell he's on the team...he needs some minutes just to see where he can continue to improve in practice since no practice can match the intensity of the game -- same with Bruno might as well give him a few minutes here and there where the game is a bit out of reach and let him have a feel for the court...At this point Fields and Hayes can be the suits guy, no need for them to be taking any minutes from Bebe and Bruno.

I could see the Raps trade Hayes or Fields expiring and grab a big man who may be signed into 2015 -- gotta see and find out...

killersweet
11-10-2014, 04:27 PM
Collectively we get out rebounded most nights. I don't really understand it because as you said we do have rebounders that play minutes. If there were upgrades... I hope that would be a point of emphasis

Even Bebe over Hayes minutes would be a start.

If we are looking for someone to grab rebounds, someone like JJ Hickson may serve the need.

smith&wesson
11-10-2014, 05:21 PM
I think its time to play Bebe over Hayes -- if Bebe isnt better than Hayes at this point, I dont know why the hell he's on the team...he needs some minutes just to see where he can continue to improve in practice since no practice can match the intensity of the game -- same with Bruno might as well give him a few minutes here and there where the game is a bit out of reach and let him have a feel for the court...At this point Fields and Hayes can be the suits guy, no need for them to be taking any minutes from Bebe and Bruno.

I could see the Raps trade Hayes or Fields expiring and grab a big man who may be signed into 2015 -- gotta see and find out...

+1 we could potentially have what we need from a deptch bigman in Noguiera with out even knowing it. One thing that frustraites me with Casey is that he gives the mins and playing time to vets by default. Also he doesnt seem to get the concept of resting players (specially when he knows they are hurt, i.e Amir)

albertajaysfan
11-10-2014, 06:11 PM
I think its time to play Bebe over Hayes -- if Bebe isnt better than Hayes at this point, I dont know why the hell he's on the team...he needs some minutes just to see where he can continue to improve in practice since no practice can match the intensity of the game -- same with Bruno might as well give him a few minutes here and there where the game is a bit out of reach and let him have a feel for the court...At this point Fields and Hayes can be the suits guy, no need for them to be taking any minutes from Bebe and Bruno.

I could see the Raps trade Hayes or Fields expiring and grab a big man who may be signed into 2015 -- gotta see and find out...

That fact that Bebe and Bruno weren't even dressed against Philly was perplexing to me. I never thought either would get much playing time but not even dressing against bottom feeders is frustrating.

I understand we want to win now but I also want to win later. Getting youngsters against bottom feeders is how I think you balance that. Sure they wouldn't have been going against great competition but at least they could have gotten their feet wet.

I don't even see how either Fields or Hayes could be getting 'showcased'. Their value is as an expiring contract, nothing else. I can't imagine some GM seeing them play and thinking 'man we really need those two on our roster'.

Freakazoid
11-10-2014, 06:34 PM
Wouldn't mind targeting Draymond Green this offseason.

ink
11-10-2014, 07:08 PM
Wouldn't mind targeting Draymond Green this offseason.

Was just looking at his numbers with GSW. He's having a great year.

North Yorker
11-10-2014, 07:41 PM
Wouldn't mind targeting Draymond Green this offseason.

How's his defense? Can he guard 3's consistently?

smith&wesson
11-10-2014, 08:23 PM
How's his defense? Can he guard 3's consistently?

hes basically Patman but with starter minutes at the moment with Lee out.

we dont really need a guy who can defend 3's consistently seeing how Ross is an above average defender, and we just attained JJ to be our defender on the wings. But Green can certainly play d on other 4's... he held Griffen to just 14 points in their last meeting.

smith&wesson
11-10-2014, 08:25 PM
Was just looking at his numbers with GSW. He's having a great year.

so much so that Kerr may keep him in the starting line up. I read this in my yahoo fantacy league, didnt know if i can post the link here. i found a couple of related articles http://hoopshabit.com/2014/11/10/golden-state-warriors-david-lee-bench/ and also http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2257195-draymond-green-should-replace-david-lee-for-good-with-golden-state-warriors

Id go after Green or Lee if either became available.

smith&wesson
11-10-2014, 08:30 PM
I would have loved someone like Zack Randolph or David West on this team. Tough, gritty veteran bigmen who can put points up if needed, but also play with in the system and are both team first guys at this point in their careers.

Freakazoid
11-10-2014, 08:35 PM
How's his defense? Can he guard 3's consistently?

Yeah, he's more of a small forward anyway.

gwrighter
11-11-2014, 01:07 AM
There isn't any point in trading anybody right now unless it's for a superstar that could potentially put us over the top. Best start in franchise history, let that ride for as long as possible.

BHF
11-11-2014, 02:16 AM
There isn't any point in trading anybody right now unless it's for a superstar that could potentially put us over the top. Best start in franchise history, let that ride for as long as possible.

We do need a backup center really bad in case Amir or Val get injured. I know i don't wanna see this team in the playoffs with Hayes or Stiemsma as our starters.

GrumpyOldMan
11-11-2014, 11:06 AM
I wonder if Minnesota would trade us Ronny Turiaf. He is on his last season and while he wouldn't score a lot he plays pretty good D and hits the boards with energy. I think he can play the 4 and 5. He's no star, but he is a good depth guy.

gwrighter
11-11-2014, 01:06 PM
We do need a backup center really bad in case Amir or Val get injured. I know i don't wanna see this team in the playoffs with Hayes or Stiemsma as our starters.

When that bridge comes we cross it but until then our rotations and depth is what is keeping us so good. Don't know who we'd realistically trade for a backup C anyways. Anybody outside of our top 10 & 2 rookies isn't really intriguing for any other teams.

Besides we got Lucas and Stiemsma to give us the 23 MPG that Valanciunas is getting now. I don't think it's too alarming just yet.

LanceUpperCut
11-11-2014, 01:47 PM
I wonder if Minnesota would trade us Ronny Turiaf. He is on his last season and while he wouldn't score a lot he plays pretty good D and hits the boards with energy. I think he can play the 4 and 5. He's no star, but he is a good depth guy.

That's Hansbourgh and Hans is better then Turiaf.

Jamiecballer
11-11-2014, 02:35 PM
Green is fantastic GS would be nuts to let him go. Absolutely nuts.

cdnsportsfan
11-11-2014, 05:10 PM
I would have loved someone like Zack Randolph or David West on this team. Tough, gritty veteran bigmen who can put points up if needed, but also play with in the system and are both team first guys at this point in their careers.

Of all the possible trades this season I see West as one that not only could happen, but that would mutually benefit both teams involved.

The Pacers have been competitive with a limited roster, so really it'll be some time before they're ready to throw in the towel on the season. But once they are, the tandem of Fields and Hayes replacing West would help Indy move into high draft pick territory, while their expiring contracts would free up cap space in the offseason.

Then with that final open roster spot created by the 2-for-1 trade with the Pacers, the ideal Raps move (for me anyways) would be for them to sign Okafor for some backup relief at the 5. The guy is waiting for the season to develop before deciding where he wants to go, so long as this team is still in contention I could see Toronto being an attractive playoff-bound destination.

I don't see these moves being out of the realm of possibility, and both of these vets would help take pressure off the younger players in front of them. Thoughts?

Miltstar
11-11-2014, 09:49 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Vasquez traded

ink
11-11-2014, 10:05 PM
.

LanceUpperCut
11-11-2014, 11:55 PM
Henson gets 5 min tonight in a Bucks win. Not really sure whats going on their I thought he was a big part of their future. Maybe he is up for grabs?

North Yorker
11-12-2014, 12:04 AM
Henson gets 5 min tonight in a Bucks win. Not really sure whats going on their I thought he was a big part of their future. Maybe he is up for grabs?

Giannis and Jabari both see time at the 4, plus they have Ilyasova there too. Sanders and Zaza both see time at the 5. Not enough mins to go around. We sure could use him though. If he puts on 10-15 lbs he could be a nice starter down the road.

smith&wesson
11-12-2014, 12:59 AM
Of all the possible trades this season I see West as one that not only could happen, but that would mutually benefit both teams involved.

The Pacers have been competitive with a limited roster, so really it'll be some time before they're ready to throw in the towel on the season. But once they are, the tandem of Fields and Hayes replacing West would help Indy move into high draft pick territory, while their expiring contracts would free up cap space in the offseason.

Then with that final open roster spot created by the 2-for-1 trade with the Pacers, the ideal Raps move (for me anyways) would be for them to sign Okafor for some backup relief at the 5. The guy is waiting for the season to develop before deciding where he wants to go, so long as this team is still in contention I could see Toronto being an attractive playoff-bound destination.

I don't see these moves being out of the realm of possibility, and both of these vets would help take pressure off the younger players in front of them. Thoughts?

I agree on West... I think it would make perfect sense for both teams as the pacers should be in tank mode while George recovers.

Not sure how much okafor would want, haven't seen him play in a while either.. no idea what kind of player he is today. but with Jonas, Amir, West, Patman and TH, GS as depth bigs I think our front court would be pretty crowded as is.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-12-2014, 01:25 AM
No need for Okafor.

BHF
11-12-2014, 01:43 AM
What happened to the Andray Blatche rumor? He might be the dumbest player in the NBA but we could use his big body.

LanceUpperCut
11-12-2014, 09:58 AM
I think Blatche is in China playing now. He would be a good fit as a back up C if he wasn't such a dumb ***. I'd still give him a chance.
A second unit of GV, Lou, JJ, PP and Blatche is pretty ****ing awesome

North Yorker
11-12-2014, 01:37 PM
Minnie fan came up with a trade idea (http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?879539-Raps-Wolves&p=29249499#post29249499)

It's Pekovic+ Corey Brewer for Ross+ Hayes+ Fields.

The value is honestly pretty even, but I don't think I'd do it just because it would create spacing issues with the lack of shooting on the wing, and even though Pek would solve our low post scoring need, he's not the shot blocker we're lacking. Still need Jonas to develop, and cutting down on his playing time won't help that. Not to mention Pek's deal is 4 more years. Hurts our future flexibility. Horford should still be the trade target if we're looking to make a big splash for a C/PF.

gwrighter
11-12-2014, 02:10 PM
Minnie fan came up with a trade idea (http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?879539-Raps-Wolves&p=29249499#post29249499)

It's Pekovic+ Corey Brewer for Ross+ Hayes+ Fields.

The value is honestly pretty even, but I don't think I'd do it just because it would create spacing issues with the lack of shooting on the wing, and even though Pek would solve our low post scoring need, he's not the shot blocker we're lacking. Still need Jonas to develop, and cutting down on his playing time won't help that. Not to mention Pek's deal is 4 more years. Hurts our future flexibility. Horford should still be the trade target if we're looking to make a big splash for a C/PF.

Wouldn't do it either, Ross has too much potential and Pek doesn't solve the needs we have at the C position.

Miltstar
11-12-2014, 02:46 PM
I wish people would stop talking about trading ross

albertajaysfan
11-12-2014, 04:23 PM
I wish people would stop talking about trading ross

Depends on the return personally. Only way I would include him in a trade is if it lands us a legit star wing player. But I can't see any of those being available for trade this season.

North Yorker
11-12-2014, 04:34 PM
Zach Lowe on the BS report with both of them talking about the Raps yesterday.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=11859783

Starts at like 41:50 till like 46:00. Giving us some love. BS says Lowry's game vs the C's is better than any CP3 game the last 2 years.

Talks about possible trade targets: Horford, Jeff Green, Gallo, one of Utah's bigs, etc.

Says we have the picks and expirings to make a splash.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-12-2014, 04:35 PM
I actually like the value but Jonas can't play PF and don't want him off the bench playing 24 mins.

mseds99
11-12-2014, 05:12 PM
Giannis and Jabari both see time at the 4, plus they have Ilyasova there too. Sanders and Zaza both see time at the 5. Not enough mins to go around. We sure could use him though. If he puts on 10-15 lbs he could be a nice starter down the road.

As a visiting Bucks fan, I don't think I am going out on a limb saying Henson and Zaza are both available and could help you guys out. Henson is just getting squeezed for time. Not sure what would come the other way. Zaza has a two year deal, so I would think a 2nd and an expiring like Chuck Hayes could do it. For Henson, your first next year plus Hayes may work. How do you guys feel about those offers?

mseds99
11-12-2014, 05:13 PM
And do you guys still have Marcus Camby on your payroll? Holy cow!!!

mike_noodles
11-12-2014, 05:20 PM
Zach Lowe on the BS report with both of them talking about the Raps yesterday.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=11859783

Starts at like 41:50 till like 46:00. Giving us some love. BS says Lowry's game vs the C's is better than any CP3 game the last 2 years.

Talks about possible trade targets: Horford, Jeff Green, Gallo, one of Utah's bigs, etc.

Says we have the picks and expirings to make a splash.

Interesting. Thanks for the share.

North Yorker
11-12-2014, 05:39 PM
As a visiting Bucks fan, I don't think I am going out on a limb saying Henson and Zaza are both available and could help you guys out. Henson is just getting squeezed for time. Not sure what would come the other way. Zaza has a two year deal, so I would think a 2nd and an expiring like Chuck Hayes could do it. For Henson, your first next year plus Hayes may work. How do you guys feel about those offers?

Either one of those deals seem fine. Would rather the Henson one, as Zaza's deal will hurt our flexibility next offseason.

mseds99
11-12-2014, 05:53 PM
Either one of those deals seem fine. Would rather the Henson one, as Zaza's deal will hurt our flexibility next offseason.

Who said being a GM was difficult? Haha.

BHF
11-12-2014, 06:17 PM
As a visiting Bucks fan, I don't think I am going out on a limb saying Henson and Zaza are both available and could help you guys out. Henson is just getting squeezed for time. Not sure what would come the other way. Zaza has a two year deal, so I would think a 2nd and an expiring like Chuck Hayes could do it. For Henson, your first next year plus Hayes may work. How do you guys feel about those offers?

Where do i sign? This would be amazing for the raptors.

Miltstar
11-12-2014, 06:56 PM
Where do i sign? This would be amazing for the raptors.

+1

Henson for a late first and our 6'6" center?? Let's get'er done!

Miltstar
11-12-2014, 07:02 PM
And do you guys still have Marcus Camby on your payroll? Holy cow!!!

no, we bought him out... we also managed to land a first round pick for Primo Pasta in that deal so most of us are pretty happy with it

ink
11-12-2014, 07:16 PM
And do you guys still have Marcus Camby on your payroll? Holy cow!!!

no, we bought him out... we also managed to land a first round pick for Primo Pasta in that deal so most of us are pretty happy with it

Geez I already forgot about those ads. So happy they finally stopped running them.

Which was worse?

Primo Pasta and Bargnani or pizza with Turkoglu?

LanceUpperCut
11-12-2014, 07:38 PM
Geez I already forgot about those ads. So happy they finally stopped running them.

Which was worse?

Primo Pasta and Bargnani or pizza with Turkoglu?

Primo, simply cause of longevity.

pulzar
11-12-2014, 07:40 PM
no, we bought him out... we also managed to land a first round pick for Primo Pasta in that deal so most of us are pretty happy with it

He still counts against the cap this year, no?

pulzar
11-12-2014, 07:42 PM
+1

Henson for a late first and our 6'6" center?? Let's get'er done!

+infinity. I just don't want to see Hayes play any more. Bebe must be tripping over his own shoelaces in practice to not move up in depth chart ahead of Hayes.

albertajaysfan
11-12-2014, 07:57 PM
He still counts against the cap this year, no?

We used the stretch provision on him. He only uses about ~650k of the cap.

Miltstar
11-12-2014, 08:28 PM
He still counts against the cap this year, no?

I think maybe one million ... payroll would infer he is still getting paid though

bartron_44
11-12-2014, 09:02 PM
+infinity. I just don't want to see Hayes play any more. Bebe must be tripping over his own shoelaces in practice to not move up in depth chart ahead of Hayes.

I think I would rather just hold on to Hayes and his expiring contract. After this season we have almost our entire core still under contract, but about 30M coming off the books in Fields, Hayes, Amir, Lou and Tyler.

BHF
11-12-2014, 09:21 PM
I think I would rather just hold on to Hayes and his expiring contract. After this season we have almost our entire core still under contract, but about 30M coming off the books in Fields, Hayes, Amir, Lou and Tyler.

I rather not wait till Amir twists his ankle again and we have to play with Hayes.

ink
11-12-2014, 09:32 PM
I think I would rather just hold on to Hayes and his expiring contract. After this season we have almost our entire core still under contract, but about 30M coming off the books in Fields, Hayes, Amir, Lou and Tyler.

I rather not wait till Amir twists his ankle again and we have to play with Hayes.

Definitely.

Bramaca
11-12-2014, 10:08 PM
He still counts against the cap this year, no?

Yeah, he had two years left on his contract. The buyout was a little over $1 million for last season and $650k for this season.

Bramaca
11-12-2014, 10:12 PM
+infinity. I just don't want to see Hayes play any more. Bebe must be tripping over his own shoelaces in practice to not move up in depth chart ahead of Hayes.

Not necesarily, Casey has shown a reluctance to play rookies in the past, playing guys who are useless ahead of them just because they are vets. Unless he is forced to Casey will avoid giving the rookies minutes even if they are potentially a better options then the vets on the roster.

BHF
11-12-2014, 11:51 PM
The way Denver is playing i can see them having a fire sale they are down 111-78 at the end of the 3rd quarter.

LanceUpperCut
11-12-2014, 11:53 PM
That Knicks pick could end up being pretty good.

FriedTofuz
11-13-2014, 02:57 AM
Im telling you guys right now, the knicks are going to strike out in free agency. How often do you see a losing team just bail themselves out with free agents? IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED.
Back in 2010, knicks thought they were getting lebron. WHO DID THEY GET? THey overpaid for Amare, that's all they got.

they're not getting anyone significant enough to help them make the playoffs, it really makes me sad to know Melo wasting his prime on the knicks, Id be much happier seeing him on the bulls or lakers.

Ninjago
11-13-2014, 05:13 PM
Doesn't this depend on Nuggets and where they finish?
If the nuggets finish higher then the Knicks, they can exercise their right to swap picks and then the Raptors would pick in Nuggets spot....I think!
Meaning, Raptors get the worst of 2 picking spots between Nuggets and Knicks. Hopefully they finish last and 2nd last! LOL

Edit - Sorry, I didn't reply on the above post stating:

"That Knicks pick could end up being pretty good."

Miltstar
11-13-2014, 05:21 PM
Doesn't this depend on Nuggets and where they finish?
If the nuggets finish higher then the Knicks, they can exercise their right to swap picks and then the Raptors would pick in Nuggets spot....I think!
Meaning, Raptors get the worst of 2 picking spots between Nuggets and Knicks. Hopefully they finish last and 2nd last! LOL

Edit - Sorry, I didn't reply on the above post stating:

"That Knicks pick could end up being pretty good."

they're both looking pretty terrible right now, but the pick is for 2016

Eagles4Lyfe
11-13-2014, 05:27 PM
Nuggets are not going anywhere either in the next couple seasons. Heck its highly likely they'll be a bottom dweller that year with Knicks in lottery.

I know I suggested trading Ross earlier but after looking at the market and possibly ruining the chemistry, I think keeping the teams core together and adding to it is beneficial.

IIRC Thad's an expiring this year, he'd be a nice deadline pickup to help us come playoff time. I expect twolves to be sellers. Thad will help solidify our weak rebounding and add defense to our team.

I think we have approx 10-12M this year to spend in FA.
We need a back up center, resign Amir and Lou. Be nice to fit Thad in there somehow too.

LanceUpperCut
11-13-2014, 07:15 PM
Doesn't this depend on Nuggets and where they finish?
If the nuggets finish higher then the Knicks, they can exercise their right to swap picks and then the Raptors would pick in Nuggets spot....I think!
Meaning, Raptors get the worst of 2 picking spots between Nuggets and Knicks. Hopefully they finish last and 2nd last! LOL

Edit - Sorry, I didn't reply on the above post stating:

"That Knicks pick could end up being pretty good."

Yeah when I wrote the post it was right after someone talking about the Nuggets getting blown out my post just happen to be the next page. I do think it could definitely be a lottery pick.

Freakazoid
11-13-2014, 09:39 PM
Shaw doesn't know how to coach this Nuggets team. I hope he doesn't get fired so the Nuggets continue to suck.

Byronicle
11-14-2014, 12:04 AM
Trade Ross and Amir Johnson

for

Taj Gibson, and Tony Snell

Lowry/Vasquez
Derozan/L.Williams
J.JOhnson/Snell
Gibson/Patterson
Valanciunas/Stiegs or Hayes

Rose/Brooks
Ross/Hinrich
Butler/Dunleavy
Gasol/A.Johnson
Noah/Mohammed

Why would Chicago do that? Get rid of a big contract in Gibson for a guy who is not seeing starter minutes and they get that defensive, spot up 3 at the 2 that they need badly and who is young with potential. It shifts Butler to play his natural position at SF.

Raptors get that young power forward who provides that interior defense and can play the C. Snell is a young, good back up defensive swingman

But how big of an impact does Amir Johnson's heart give to this team?

Would Gibson's intensity become unmotivated in Toronto?

North Yorker
11-14-2014, 12:07 AM
^Ummm no. Amir is the same player as Gibson and plus he's younger.

And Ross >>> Snell.

GodsSon
11-14-2014, 01:01 PM
Nuggets are not going anywhere either in the next couple seasons. Heck its highly likely they'll be a bottom dweller that year with Knicks in lottery.

I know I suggested trading Ross earlier but after looking at the market and possibly ruining the chemistry, I think keeping the teams core together and adding to it is beneficial.

IIRC Thad's an expiring this year, he'd be a nice deadline pickup to help us come playoff time. I expect twolves to be sellers. Thad will help solidify our weak rebounding and add defense to our team.

I think we have approx 10-12M this year to spend in FA.
We need a back up center, resign Amir and Lou. Be nice to fit Thad in there somehow too.

We need more size up front.

Thad doesn't really give you that, but he'd be an upgrade on PPat.

The Wise 1
11-14-2014, 02:14 PM
Haven't looked at any other pages but the last so if it's mentioned I apologize. I mentioned Sanders in the offseason but now maybe its time to see about Henson. He isn't playing at all. I wonder if you could get him for our first next year and expiring contracts.

Jamiecballer
11-14-2014, 03:23 PM
^Ummm no. Amir is the same player as Gibson and plus he's younger.

And Ross >>> Snell.
+3

mike_noodles
11-14-2014, 04:22 PM
^Ummm no. Amir is the same player as Gibson and plus he's younger.

And Ross >>> Snell.

Amir is very similar, but Gibson doesn't have the same ailing health that Amir has. I would be all for grabbing Taj Gibson, but not at that cost.

ink
11-14-2014, 04:25 PM
Amir is very similar, but Gibson doesn't have the same ailing health that Amir has. I would be all for grabbing Taj Gibson, but not at that cost.

Yes, as much as we all love Amir, we have to realize his susceptibility to injury means his value drops. Healthy Amir is not available for the time being, not as a player or an asset.

ChongInc.
11-15-2014, 05:45 PM
how much do we think amir will cost to re-up?
if we could get him around 3-3.5 that'd be great. 5+ and ujri may let him walk.

deaner
11-15-2014, 05:50 PM
how much do we think amir will cost to re-up?
if we could get him around 3-3.5 that'd be great. 5+ and ujri may let him walk.

How did you come up with these numbers???

pulzar
11-15-2014, 11:59 PM
how much do we think amir will cost to re-up?
if we could get him around 3-3.5 that'd be great. 5+ and ujri may let him walk.

I wouldn't want to pay him a lot for a long contract, due to his health, but he's going to get way over 5 for sure... unless he gets to the point where he can't play at all this year.

FriedTofuz
11-16-2014, 12:53 AM
Ujiri is a master.
Trade Salmonella for Lou williams.

Traded Bargnani for (likely) a top 5-7 lotto pick in 2016.
Both Denver and NYK are going to suck during that time. Dont be fooled with the market that NYK has, if you're losing, no one is going to want to play there.

Jamiecballer
11-16-2014, 01:36 PM
how much do we think amir will cost to re-up?
if we could get him around 3-3.5 that'd be great. 5+ and ujri may let him walk.
similar to his current annual salary but shorter deal i figure.

FriedTofuz
11-16-2014, 03:29 PM
Amir is going to get way more than 3.5, that's a joke right? he's going to get 5-7mil minimum.
That's just how the NBA is nowadays.

The Wise 1
11-16-2014, 05:45 PM
I wish 5 mill. 7 mill minimum. That includes a Toronto discount.

GrumpyOldMan
11-16-2014, 08:20 PM
If Denver struggles much longer I wonder if they would be interested in sending Mozgov and Wilson Chandler our way for the expirings of Lou Williams and Fields. They have McGee and the young center Nurkic to give minutes to so I could see them shopping Mozgov. Gallinari is starting at SF now and they could give Chandler's minutes to Gee. Lou and Fields would give them over $11million in expirings in the offseason. I don't know if a draft pick would have to be added or not. I just really like what it would do for our depth. It would make our already strong bench better IMO. Ross could be moved to a sixth man spot backing up DD and spelling in at SF on occasion to maintain his minutes at the level they are currently. Mozgov or Val would be a backup center. I also like the Chandler/Johnson combination defensively at the 3.
I like the looks of:
Lowry/GV
DD/Ross
Chandler/Johnson/Ross
Amir/Patterson/Hans
JV/Mozgov
I don't even know if the contracts work, but they look like they would to me. Just a thought.

anotherqtip420
11-16-2014, 09:08 PM
If Denver struggles much longer I wonder if they would be interested in sending Mozgov and Wilson Chandler our way for the expirings of Lou Williams and Fields. They have McGee and the young center Nurkic to give minutes to so I could see them shopping Mozgov. Gallinari is starting at SF now and they could give Chandler's minutes to Gee. Lou and Fields would give them over $11million in expirings in the offseason. I don't know if a draft pick would have to be added or not. I just really like what it would do for our depth. It would make our already strong bench better IMO. Ross could be moved to a sixth man spot backing up DD and spelling in at SF on occasion to maintain his minutes at the level they are currently. Mozgov or Val would be a backup center. I also like the Chandler/Johnson combination defensively at the 3.
I like the looks of:
Lowry/GV
DD/Ross
Chandler/Johnson/Ross
Amir/Patterson/Hans
JV/Mozgov
I don't even know if the contracts work, but they look like they would to me. Just a thought.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=m78xotw

Trade works on Trade Machine. Interesting though as we are -4 wins to Dencer's -1???? I assumed if anything we'd be in the + column on that trade.

BHF
11-16-2014, 09:33 PM
I think Nuggets are going to get trade McGee before Mozgov, and lets be real they can get a much better deal than 2 expiring contracts for Mozgov and Chandler.

pulzar
11-16-2014, 09:45 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=m78xotw

Trade works on Trade Machine. Interesting though as we are -4 wins to Dencer's -1???? I assumed if anything we'd be in the + column on that trade.

He's just looking at PERs... You lose Lou's PER of 16+ and get a couple of 10s, therefore the team is going to perform less well. There's no real thought behind it, just a simple equation.

koreancabbage
11-17-2014, 10:00 AM
I would be up for McGee. Need that shot blocker and rebounder to improve on one of the best defensive teams in the league.

He would be off the bench. Trade Amir + expirings (Fields and Lou) for Chandler + McGee. We are the nuggets of the East right? lol

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ns6fo9h

JustinTime
11-17-2014, 12:03 PM
Jonas for Olynyk although I think Raps would have to give up more. Finally gets the Raptors the Canadian they've been seeking and his 21.28 PER would be a pretty sweet addition.

koreancabbage
11-17-2014, 12:11 PM
Jonas for Olynyk although I think Raps would have to give up more. Finally gets the Raptors the Canadian they've been seeking and his 21.28 PER would be a pretty sweet addition.

Screw that. I don't care about a Canadian playing on this team. We'd be even weaker and undersized downlow than ever before. It's the PF position we need to really address moving forward for the future. Getting killed on the boards.

pebloemer
11-17-2014, 12:34 PM
Jonas for Olynyk although I think Raps would have to give up more. Finally gets the Raptors the Canadian they've been seeking and his 21.28 PER would be a pretty sweet addition.

Olynyk is a fine player and all, but a perimeter big is really not a need of this team. Valanciunas rebounds more in less minutes and has a better shot at developing into the post player and defender that we need. I also couldn't care less about the nationality. I doubt management does either.

JustinTime
11-17-2014, 01:09 PM
Screw that. I don't care about a Canadian playing on this team. We'd be even weaker and undersized downlow than ever before. It's the PF position we need to really address moving forward for the future. Getting killed on the boards.

Olynyk can play the 4 he kind of like Dirk he's 7ft but can move really well for a guy his size because he grew up as a PG. Olynyk will be an All-star one day it's almost certain, Jonas I doubt will ever be so if I could get KO for Jonas I'm doing it.

JustinTime
11-17-2014, 01:16 PM
Olynyk is a fine player and all, but a perimeter big is really not a need of this team. Valanciunas rebounds more in less minutes and has a better shot at developing into the post player and defender that we need. I also couldn't care less about the nationality. I doubt management does either.

Management definitely does care they were about to draft Ennis and they were already stacked at the point. Olynyk has some great rebounders around him like Rondo and Sulinger which obviously take away from his personal numbers. Toronto is one of the worst rebounding teams in the league and I'm betting Olynyk would easily put up similar numbers to Jonas or better and do so while hanging out on the perimeter.

pebloemer
11-17-2014, 01:39 PM
Management definitely does care they were about to draft Ennis and they were already stacked at the point. Olynyk has some great rebounders around him like Rondo and Sulinger which obviously take away from his personal numbers. Toronto is one of the worst rebounding teams in the league and I'm betting Olynyk would easily put up similar numbers to Jonas or better and do so while hanging out on the perimeter.

I think it is a reach to assume they only like Ennis because he is Canadian. Phoenix is even more stacked at PG and they had no issues drafting BPA.

What makes you believe Olynyk would get more rebounds here, I don't understand the logic you are presenting. Valanciunas is top 20 in rebounds per minute in the NBA. Olynyk isn't even in the Top 70. It really isn't even that close now. Sullinger is a fine rebounder, but not elite. Rondo is elite for his position, but only MCW had more rebounds for a PG than Lowry did last year. It sounds to me that you are more enamored with him because he is Canadian than anything else.

Jonas is younger, and has much more potential in the areas this team needs to get better. I haven't been thrilled with his progress so far, but our expectations might be a tad high for a 22 year old C.

JustinTime
11-17-2014, 04:16 PM
I think it is a reach to assume they only like Ennis because he is Canadian. Phoenix is even more stacked at PG and they had no issues drafting BPA.

What makes you believe Olynyk would get more rebounds here, I don't understand the logic you are presenting. Valanciunas is top 20 in rebounds per minute in the NBA. Olynyk isn't even in the Top 70. It really isn't even that close now. Sullinger is a fine rebounder, but not elite. Rondo is elite for his position, but only MCW had more rebounds for a PG than Lowry did last year. It sounds to me that you are more enamored with him because he is Canadian than anything else.

Jonas is younger, and has much more potential in the areas this team needs to get better. I haven't been thrilled with his progress so far, but our expectations might be a tad high for a 22 year old C.

My logic is that Boston is the 5th best rebounding team with the best rebounding PG and Toronto is the 25 best rebounding team with little help. Jonas gets his boards because nobody else is capable. A rebound on Boston is harder to get than a rebound for Toronto. KO being from BC is a plus but I actually like his game a lot he's an extremely skilled big man unlike Jonas who won't miss easy layups and can actually finish on a fast break.

pebloemer
11-17-2014, 04:21 PM
My logic is that Boston is the 5th best rebounding team with the best rebounding PG and Toronto is the 25 best rebounding team with little help. Jonas gets his boards because nobody else is capable. A rebound on Boston is harder to get than a rebound for Toronto. KO being from BC is a plus but I actually like his game a lot he's an extremely skilled big man unlike Jonas who won't miss easy layups and can actually finish on a fast break.

I like Olynyk as well, but I'm not trading Jonas unless I receive an interior presence in return. There is absolutely no indication that Olynyk fits that bill.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-17-2014, 04:29 PM
Haven't looked at any other pages but the last so if it's mentioned I apologize. I mentioned Sanders in the offseason but now maybe its time to see about Henson. He isn't playing at all. I wonder if you could get him for our first next year and expiring contracts.

Henson for a late first and expiring isn't all that exciting. Plus Bucks are 5-5. Probably wont be purging the roster in any kind of fire sale any time soon. Late first and expiring is fire sale low ball offer. Us Bucks fans are consider trade ideas for him just recently. But not give him away. Heck we already got a late first for free from the Clippers just taking Dudley.

smith&wesson
11-17-2014, 04:36 PM
Corey Brewer just became available, I cant imagine the price tag would be very much. any interest in him ?

North Yorker
11-17-2014, 04:44 PM
Corey Brewer just became available, I cant imagine the price tag would be very much. any interest in him ?

Don't think he's as good defensively as Ross/JJ and isn't as good offensively as Demar/Lou. Not sure what he would bring that we don't already have?

JustinTime
11-17-2014, 07:11 PM
Corey Brewer just became available, I cant imagine the price tag would be very much. any interest in him ?

He's the best in the NBA at transition baskets and a good chemistry guy but an awful shooter so for a bench vet sure why not.

BHF
11-17-2014, 09:31 PM
He's the best in the NBA at transition baskets and a good chemistry guy but an awful shooter so for a bench vet sure why not.

Val for Brewer?

MrSoFreshSoClea
11-17-2014, 09:34 PM
Val for Brewer?

is that a joke?

koreancabbage
11-17-2014, 09:45 PM
My logic is that Boston is the 5th best rebounding team with the best rebounding PG and Toronto is the 25 best rebounding team with little help. Jonas gets his boards because nobody else is capable. A rebound on Boston is harder to get than a rebound for Toronto. KO being from BC is a plus but I actually like his game a lot he's an extremely skilled big man unlike Jonas who won't miss easy layups and can actually finish on a fast break.

Olynyk has not proved he can rebound with the best of them - even if he plays with Celtics.

You know that the Raptors don't pass a lot? Every possession for the Raptors count and I hardly doubt getting Olynyk would increase our offensive rebounding - which Jonas is tops on our team.

We have the same guy on our team already and he's on our bench - Patrick Patterson.

koreancabbage
11-17-2014, 09:46 PM
is that a joke?

just like the joke JustinTime said trade Jonas for Olynyk lol

The Wise 1
11-17-2014, 11:36 PM
I hear ya. I thought he wasn't playing that much and that they weren't happy with him? It won't be that late of a first. There's a difference between a clippers first and a raptors first.

And you got that first because you took on salary and the clippers were desperate to shed salary. Or so I thought.

JustinTime
11-18-2014, 01:05 AM
just like the joke JustinTime said trade Jonas for Olynyk lol

Well Olynyk is better than Jonas and Brewer is way worse so I don't get what you're getting at. Just because you put LOL at the end of something doesn't mean you're right.

koreancabbage
11-18-2014, 02:09 AM
Well Olynyk is better than Jonas and Brewer is way worse so I don't get what you're getting at. Just because you put LOL at the end of something doesn't mean you're right.

For our team? No. Olynyk sucks defensively. Jonas is better defensively. Olynyk is slightly better offensively but Jonas is one year younger but Jonas is our only inside presence.

If you want to throw the season away, ya sure trade our best defensive big for a worse defending big .You know we have no problems scoring as we have a top 10 offence. Rim protection, we are already pretty thin up front it you want to add a player who can't help us with rim protection.

BHF
11-18-2014, 02:36 AM
Well Olynyk is better than Jonas and Brewer is way worse so I don't get what you're getting at. Just because you put LOL at the end of something doesn't mean you're right.

:facepalm: You are a well known Val hater but seriously now wtf?

mike_noodles
11-18-2014, 10:26 AM
Well Olynyk is better than Jonas and Brewer is way worse so I don't get what you're getting at. Just because you put LOL at the end of something doesn't mean you're right.

I'd be willing to trade Val, but his value is way higher than Olynyk's.

ink
11-18-2014, 11:04 AM
Well Olynyk is better than Jonas and Brewer is way worse so I don't get what you're getting at. Just because you put LOL at the end of something doesn't mean you're right.

I'd be willing to trade Val, but his value is way higher than Olynyk's.

Too early to say. Olynyk is surprising while JV is disappointing relative to the sky high expectations of him. Value is fluid.

Abdul Mutalib
11-18-2014, 11:27 AM
i don't think we've given enough time to JV to prove his worth/potential to actually think about trading him yet. only his 3rd season, no? how many years did we give andrea to be the next dirk.

koreancabbage
11-18-2014, 11:58 AM
i don't think we've given enough time to JV to prove his worth/potential to actually think about trading him yet. only his 3rd season, no? how many years did we give andrea to be the next dirk.

not enough touches for Val, especially this team being a decent team.

we gave all the touches to Bargnani.

koreancabbage
11-18-2014, 12:08 PM
Too early to say. Olynyk is surprising while JV is disappointing relative to the sky high expectations of him. Value is fluid.

well its what the player is worth to the team. I would imagine the Raptors interior defense to be worse than it already is with Olynyk. JVal is probably and actually worth more to both the Raptors and Celtics (whoever had him) because

1) he is still young
2) big body and offers some interior defense
3) interior scoring (offers a young team an inside out game)

Jonas is still producing albiet limited minutes. He's got some good offensive moves like the sky hook which we've seen some go down and pretty much unstoppable once he gets used to getting more of the ball down low.

imo, I would rather have Jonas than Olynyk just because the potential defensive game Jonas can bring. Olynyk is good at the stretch 4 position - so I wouldn't trade Jonas for Olynyk. Olynyk would compliment Jonas that is for sure.

Both players are totally different and Olynyk doesn't really have much to offer that Patterson can't provide.

mike_noodles
11-18-2014, 12:49 PM
Too early to say. Olynyk is surprising while JV is disappointing relative to the sky high expectations of him. Value is fluid.

We're talking today. Val's value is higher IMO.

JustinTime
11-18-2014, 10:33 PM
Too early to say. Olynyk is surprising while JV is disappointing relative to the sky high expectations of him. Value is fluid.

Thank you, someone who has actually watched Olynyk before judging.

JustinTime
11-18-2014, 10:34 PM
We're talking today. Val's value is higher IMO.

No way Val is performing worse than expected and Olynyk is playing way better than expected. I'll take a high IQ player like Olynyk over a lazy low IQ guy like Jonas any day.

deaner
11-18-2014, 10:40 PM
I'd Olynyk today over Val any day of the week.

You're just proving your hate. Kelly O would be nice but not at the price of Val.

JustinTime
11-18-2014, 10:44 PM
You're just proving your hate. Kelly O would be nice but not at the price of Val.

You're overvaluing JV though, what makes him so valuable? I really doubt Boston would give Olynyk for JV straight up to be honest.

ink
11-18-2014, 10:51 PM
I'd Olynyk today over Val any day of the week.

You're just proving your hate. Kelly O would be nice but not at the price of Val.

Why bring hate into this when all he's doing is indicating his preference?

ink
11-18-2014, 10:53 PM
Too early to say. Olynyk is surprising while JV is disappointing relative to the sky high expectations of him. Value is fluid.

well its what the player is worth to the team. I would imagine the Raptors interior defense to be worse than it already is with Olynyk. JVal is probably and actually worth more to both the Raptors and Celtics (whoever had him) because

1) he is still young
2) big body and offers some interior defense
3) interior scoring (offers a young team an inside out game)

Jonas is still producing albiet limited minutes. He's got some good offensive moves like the sky hook which we've seen some go down and pretty much unstoppable once he gets used to getting more of the ball down low.

imo, I would rather have Jonas than Olynyk just because the potential defensive game Jonas can bring. Olynyk is good at the stretch 4 position - so I wouldn't trade Jonas for Olynyk. Olynyk would compliment Jonas that is for sure.

Both players are totally different and Olynyk doesn't really have much to offer that Patterson can't provide.

I agree that they're very different players and would complement each other well. We'd still need one of those positions to be more elite though.

North Yorker
11-18-2014, 11:03 PM
Hawks just lost to the Lakers on their home floor. Blow it up. I want Horford.

joshhorvath
11-18-2014, 11:45 PM
i don't think we've given enough time to JV to prove his worth/potential to actually think about trading him yet. only his 3rd season, no? how many years did we give andrea to be the next dirk.

how many years did it take for DD to become the player he is today? in his early years.. he was rather terrible

canzano55
11-19-2014, 12:01 AM
i don't think we've given enough time to JV to prove his worth/potential to actually think about trading him yet. only his 3rd season, no? how many years did we give andrea to be the next dirk.

how many years did it take for DD to become the player he is today? in his early years.. he was rather terriblePerfect example.

TorontoRaptors$
11-19-2014, 12:03 AM
I think that if we traded Bruno Caboclo and Landry Fields to the 76ers and get Tony Wroten, teach him the PG position, and put him in as back up PG.

TorontoRaptors$
11-19-2014, 12:10 AM
Aha I agree that would be a great trade, but I ust haven't seen Mozgov playing to his full abilities yet, he still has a lot to improve, I think if we keep a veteran on the team for a year or two more, then I think we should get mozgov

ink
11-19-2014, 12:14 AM
i don't think we've given enough time to JV to prove his worth/potential to actually think about trading him yet. only his 3rd season, no? how many years did we give andrea to be the next dirk.

how many years did it take for DD to become the player he is today? in his early years.. he was rather terrible

DD had out of this world athleticism. Projects like that are often given every possible chance to succeed. Risk/reward.

koreancabbage
11-19-2014, 12:39 AM
I agree that they're very different players and would complement each other well. We'd still need one of those positions to be more elite though.

which none of them are. so its moot to point to a trade to swap one for the other at this moment.

Olynyk is decent but not at the cost of JVal - which would certainly open up another hole if they were traded for one another. and plus - Olynyk's value is on the offensive end and hitting 3 pointers. He's a smart player so he might be able to pull himself to average territory in the area of defense.

Jonas can still redeem himself by staying out of foul trouble and simply playing more minutes. The kid's still got a lot of ways to go.

From what we've seen of Olynyk, he can't play a lick of defense, his defensive rating is at a miserable 111 lol. THOUGH the Celtics have played against some of the best offensive teams in the league thus far (Toronto included)

Jonas has actually improved defensively and when he is on the floor, his defensive rating number has gone down progressively the last three years (its at 101 right now)

In reality, rim protection and rebounding is on the edge for Jonas - which is what the team needs to improve. Jonas is 22, so he has a ways to go but i mean he's doing okay for us.

Hopefully Derozan can instill some of his work ethic to Jonas and keep on keeping on improving.

BHF
11-19-2014, 01:32 AM
Olynyk is a poor version of Spencer Hawes i cant believe this is even a discussion. Who in their right mind would trade Val for Olynyk?

JustinTime
11-19-2014, 11:57 AM
how many years did it take for DD to become the player he is today? in his early years.. he was rather terrible

Derozan has exceeded expectations because of his work ethic. At the start of each new season Derozan has significantly expanded his game compared to the past season, whereas when Jonas starts a new season the only thing expanded on him is gut, that's the difference.

JustinTime
11-19-2014, 12:00 PM
Olynyk is a poor version of Spencer Hawes i cant believe this is even a discussion. Who in their right mind would trade Val for Olynyk?

Are you joking or serious?

ink
11-19-2014, 12:00 PM
how many years did it take for DD to become the player he is today? in his early years.. he was rather terrible

Derozan exceeded expectation because of his work ethic. The start of each new season Derozan comes in with his game significantly expanded from the offseason, whereas Jonas comes in with his gut significantly expanded that's the difference.

I don't think that's fair or accurate. If you look at their summers this year they were practically equal in terms if development, work, and play for their international sides. The difference is simple: athleticism and speed.

JustinTime
11-19-2014, 12:22 PM
I don't think that's fair or accurate. If you look at their summers this year they were practically equal in terms if development, work, and play for their international sides. The difference is simple: athleticism and speed.

That's what gave Derozan such a high ceiling although I don't understand why he's still such a poor defender. I'd say Jonas has a bit of an alcohol or eating problem because despite his international play and heavy workload he came into this season overweight and it's been showing in his defense. There are many plays where he looks completely out of shape and can't get back in time to cover his man which really frustrates me. It's hard to judge how much time players spend in the gym on their own too because that where most of the improvements will be made.

Abdul Mutalib
11-19-2014, 01:52 PM
Olynyk is a poor version of Spencer Hawes i cant believe this is even a discussion. Who in their right mind would trade Val for Olynyk?

agreed olynk is trash

ink
11-19-2014, 03:28 PM
That's what gave Derozan such a high ceiling although I don't understand why he's still such a poor defender. I'd say Jonas has a bit of an alcohol or eating problem because despite his international play and heavy workload he came into this season overweight and it's been showing in his defense. There are many plays where he looks completely out of shape and can't get back in time to cover his man which really frustrates me. It's hard to judge how much time players spend in the gym on their own too because that where most of the improvements will be made.

Or ...

He is gassed because he's unathletic and is still not crafty enough to work around that disadvantage. He's often working against quicker, stronger bigs and is inefficient. I'm sure he expends tons of energy just trying to keep up with the play.

ink
11-19-2014, 03:28 PM
agreed olynk is trash

That's ridiculous in the other extreme. Both of these players are very good. The question is only if either of them might become more than that.

BHF
11-19-2014, 04:00 PM
Olynk is not very good he is average at best and should not be compared to Val at this point.

LanceUpperCut
11-19-2014, 04:50 PM
Big guys take time simple as that. He seem's to have great games against other young big's with upside like Kanter, Drummond , Plumlee etc. and I'd imagine those guys also struggle with lots of the same issues. With all that said Jonas has some pretty good numbers.

Eagles4Lyfe
11-19-2014, 07:29 PM
Lmaooooooooooooo in what world is Kelly in Val's league?? That's laughable and asinine.

Put Jonas on a scrub team, give him 20 touches he'll easily put up 15/12.


I'm shocked no one ever rags on Casey, i still freaken wish we had a better coach, this guys soo crap. You wanna know why our rebounding is piss poor?
Your subbing a freaken 7 footer with a 6"8 or whatever the hell Hans is. A damn PF who's not that strong and doesn't have much hops. Why in gods name is that Lucas guy not playing? Worst case you give the guy 10 minutes and he'll atleast grab boards and his defense can't be that crap.

It makes no sense, he still hasn't grasped on how to use his players.

Ppat started against Sixers, our starting unit was deadly and bench produced. I can't wait to get a better coach.

Jamiecballer
11-19-2014, 08:29 PM
Lmaooooooooooooo in what world is Kelly in Val's league?? That's laughable and asinine.

Put Jonas on a scrub team, give him 20 touches he'll easily put up 15/12.


I'm shocked no one ever rags on Casey, i still freaken wish we had a better coach, this guys soo crap. You wanna know why our rebounding is piss poor?
Your subbing a freaken 7 footer with a 6"8 or whatever the hell Hans is. A damn PF who's not that strong and doesn't have much hops. Why in gods name is that Lucas guy not playing? Worst case you give the guy 10 minutes and he'll atleast grab boards and his defense can't be that crap.

It makes no sense, he still hasn't grasped on how to use his players.

Ppat started against Sixers, our starting unit was deadly and bench produced. I can't wait to get a better coach.
Don't you think you might factor in that its the 76ers in that analysis? Patterson does one thing better than Amir and one thing only. Shoot from 3.

Miltstar
11-20-2014, 12:35 AM
I'm hatin on Vazquez right now, he forces sooo many shots... I think he's too caught up in the numbers game, he just needs to come in and do his job and ignore the line score. I don't know what happened to his 3 ball but if there was 1 expendable part to me right now he would be it

pulzar
11-20-2014, 12:43 AM
Ppat started against Sixers, our starting unit was deadly and bench produced. I can't wait to get a better coach.

You're going to wait a long time.

pulzar
11-20-2014, 12:44 AM
I'm hatin on Vazquez right now, he forces sooo many shots... I think he's too caught up in the numbers game, he just needs to come in and do his job and ignore the line score. I don't know what happened to his 3 ball but if there was 1 expendable part to me right now he would be it

I don't know what happened to his shot, either, but I hope he finds it soon. He used to shoot these same shots last year, but they were going in at a much higher rate.. so I don't think he's necessarily forcing it any more, he's just missing things he used to hit.

Lou's forcing way more shots, but he just happens to be hitting them.

ink
11-20-2014, 01:27 AM
I'm hatin on Vazquez right now, he forces sooo many shots... I think he's too caught up in the numbers game, he just needs to come in and do his job and ignore the line score. I don't know what happened to his 3 ball but if there was 1 expendable part to me right now he would be it

I don't know what happened to his shot, either, but I hope he finds it soon. He used to shoot these same shots last year, but they were going in at a much higher rate.. so I don't think he's necessarily forcing it any more, he's just missing things he used to hit.

Lou's forcing way more shots, but he just happens to be hitting them.

Remember that GV missed a lot of those shots when he first got here too.

BHF
11-20-2014, 02:20 AM
Remember that GV missed a lot of those shots when he first got here too.

I remember calling him Rubio 2.0 and than he turned in to a very good shooter out of nowhere.

koreancabbage
11-20-2014, 03:12 AM
Seems to me that the Raps are still getting their legs into the season. It's okay. People are saying a lot of excuses on why the other team lost rather than why the Raptors won. Once the bench becomes 'normal' again, we would be a very good team overall.

pebloemer
11-20-2014, 10:17 AM
I don't know what happened to his shot, either, but I hope he finds it soon. He used to shoot these same shots last year, but they were going in at a much higher rate.. so I don't think he's necessarily forcing it any more, he's just missing things he used to hit.

Lou's forcing way more shots, but he just happens to be hitting them.

There is no way he was ever going to sustain the percentages he was shooting late in the year last year. He was on a great role, but was performing far above his career norm. Chemistry, pace, rhythm, confidence, etc were all working in his favour. But there is an ebb and flow to those things. He is still a very useful backup. I think he is struggling finding his rhythm with Lou Williams sharing the backcourt with him and that's why he is forcing a little more. Lou has been playing great, but volume shooters can definitely effect those around them.

ink
11-20-2014, 11:37 AM
I don't know what happened to his shot, either, but I hope he finds it soon. He used to shoot these same shots last year, but they were going in at a much higher rate.. so I don't think he's necessarily forcing it any more, he's just missing things he used to hit.

Lou's forcing way more shots, but he just happens to be hitting them.

There is no way he was ever going to sustain the percentages he was shooting late in the year last year. He was on a great role, but was performing far above his career norm. Chemistry, pace, rhythm, confidence, etc were all working in his favour. But there is an ebb and flow to those things. He is still a very useful backup. I think he is struggling finding his rhythm with Lou Williams sharing the backcourt with him and that's why he is forcing a little more. Lou has been playing great, but volume shooters can definitely effect those around them.

Yes, huge trade off bringing a scorer into the mix. My measure for improvement will be to watch Lou's passing and D, not his scoring.

canzano55
11-20-2014, 12:48 PM
My problem with Vasquez is the timing of his shots plus he's turning the ball over a ton.

He's acting like a bit of a joker and is lacking that 'killer instinct' we saw in the playoffs last year.

The worst though is his "teardrop" drives to the hole that usually end up in a fast break going the other way.

smith&wesson
11-20-2014, 03:12 PM
If gvz has any trade value, ship out for a half decent big.

smith&wesson
11-20-2014, 08:42 PM
hell throw patman in there to

smith&wesson
11-20-2014, 08:46 PM
Yes, huge trade off bringing a scorer into the mix. My measure for improvement will be to watch Lou's passing and D, not his scoring.

I dont think Lou and GVZ will ever mesh. I noticed even in GVZ's ultra possitive interviews, when asked about Lou he gave less than ultra possitive responces like "hes new to our team, he has to adjust to us" right when GVZ said that, I had my doubts about those two playing together, it almost seemed like he was threatened by the addition of Williams.

smith&wesson
11-20-2014, 08:55 PM
I personally think Masai credited GVZ and Patman a little too much for the teams success last year. I think those contracts may have been a mistake.

Id love to trade em both if we could. So many people questioned Lowry and him being in a contract year, in reality i think gvz, and patman were the two playing for a contract.

pulzar
11-21-2014, 10:33 AM
I remember calling him Rubio 2.0 and than he turned in to a very good shooter out of nowhere.

Let's hope history repeats itself.

Abdul Mutalib
11-21-2014, 01:07 PM
I personally think Masai credited GVZ and Patman a little too much for the teams success last year. I think those contracts may have been a mistake.

Id love to trade em both if we could. So many people questioned Lowry and him being in a contract year, in reality i think gvz, and patman were the two playing for a contract.

u might have a point w/ GV esp. now that we have lou we c that he can be "expendable". but i think PP is a good piece and offers a good contrast at the PF position w/ amir/hans

ink
11-21-2014, 02:22 PM
I don't follow the logic that says we have to choose. The bench is the least of our concerns. Why not have an arsenal there so if one or two are cold, the others are still there to heat up. That's what's been happening so far and it's benefitted us right?

smith&wesson
11-21-2014, 03:04 PM
I don't follow the logic that says we have to choose. The bench is the least of our concerns. Why not have an arsenal there so if one or two are cold, the others are still there to heat up. That's what's been happening so far and it's benefitted us right?

but if 1 or 2 of those pieces could be packaged to improve our big man rotation, I think its a no brainer. We have needs that should be adressed in order to go anywhere in the post season. David West is someone I think the raps should target. I have no problem with revisiting that trade for Patman for him, as I think West would help this team alot.

ink
11-21-2014, 03:10 PM
but if 1 or 2 of those pieces could be packaged to improve our big man rotation, I think its a no brainer. We have needs that should be adressed in order to go anywhere in the post season. David West is someone I think the raps should target. I have no problem with revisiting that trade for Patman for him, as I think West would help this team alot.

I see. I am not thinking there is any rush because I don't see us contending in the short term.

smith&wesson
11-21-2014, 03:10 PM
u might have a point w/ GV esp. now that we have lou we c that he can be "expendable". but i think PP is a good piece and offers a good contrast at the PF position w/ amir/hans

I do think Patman is a good piece as well, but sometimes you need to give up something to get something back. I think West would be that much more valuable to our team and if he is still available I would def love for masai to go after him. West can still spread the floor, not with a 3 pointer, but he has a solid midrange game.. Also his D and veteran leadership and the ability to put up points in the paint would be the perfect fit imo. Right now we have no consistent low post threat at all and thats gonna hurt come playoff time.

smith&wesson
11-21-2014, 03:12 PM
I see. I am not thinking there is any rush because I don't see us contending in the short term.

on the contrary, if the raps secure that 2nd seed, we may have a decent shot at reaching the ECF's. That says more about the conference than it does the team, and i understand that. But if the opportunity presents itself, it would be wise to be prepared. Right now a glaring need on this team is a low post offensive threat. If we can attain a piece like that with out giving up our core players, and with out effecting future flexibility, I think you do it.

ink
11-21-2014, 03:13 PM
on the contrary, if the raps secure that 2nd seed, we may have a decent shot at reaching the ECF's. That says more about the conference than it does the team, and i understand that. But if the opportunity presents itself, it would be wise to be prepared. Right now a glaring need on this team is a low post offensive threat.

I am glad people are seeing that now. We absolutely lack that element and it will hold us back, if not right away, later when we want to really break through.

aman_13
11-21-2014, 03:15 PM
West would make this team even more iso oriented than it is now.

I don't get the idea of trading Pat. He's playing as good as last season. He's doing his job and his ability to space the floor is vital for this team.

smith&wesson
11-21-2014, 03:19 PM
West would make this team even more iso oriented than it is now.

I don't get the idea of trading Pat. He's playing as good as last season. He's doing his job and his ability to space the floor is vital for this team.

our rebounding is currently a problem. We dont have a big man who can conistently put points up and that makes it so much easier for aposing teams to key in on our back court.

David West is not an isolation type player at all either. Also he is can spread the floor as well. you dont have to shoot 3's to space the floor. you can hit 17 footers and it would space the floor just the same.

I think a big man rotation of Jonas, Amir, West etc would be that much better than what we currently have. If we are in compete now mode, its a trade that would benifit this team imo.

aman_13
11-21-2014, 03:58 PM
our rebounding is currently a problem. We dont have a big man who can conistently put points up and that makes it so much easier for aposing teams to key in on our back court.

David West is not an isolation type player at all either. Also he is can spread the floor as well. you dont have to shoot 3's to space the floor. you can hit 17 footers and it would space the floor just the same.

I think a big man rotation of Jonas, Amir, West etc would be that much better than what we currently have. If we are in compete now mode, its a trade that would benifit this team imo.

Im not saying West can't space the floor, I just don't think he's worth trading Pat for. To me it's a short sighted move and I much rather keep Pat and go after Gasol in the off season.

ink
11-21-2014, 04:53 PM
Im not saying West can't space the floor, I just don't think he's worth trading Pat for. To me it's a short sighted move and I much rather keep Pat and go after Gasol in the off season.

Agreed. There's no rush, short term gain isn't MUs style from what we've seen so far.

bartron_44
11-21-2014, 05:02 PM
If it is so easy for teams to defend us, than why are we averaging 105 ppg with the 2nd best Off Rtg in the NBA? Jonas can score down there, we just don't give him the ball very much. Or even play him very much. Not every team needs to play the same though....and 105 ppg is 105 ppg..

ink
11-21-2014, 05:08 PM
If it is so easy for teams to defend us, than why are we averaging 105 ppg with the 2nd best Off Rtg in the NBA? Jonas can score down there, we just don't give him the ball very much. Or even play him very much. Not every team needs to play the same though....and 105 ppg is 105 ppg..

We have only played a few challenging defences so far and playoffs will be even tougher.

smith&wesson
11-21-2014, 05:24 PM
If it is so easy for teams to defend us, than why are we averaging 105 ppg with the 2nd best Off Rtg in the NBA? Jonas can score down there, we just don't give him the ball very much. Or even play him very much. Not every team needs to play the same though....and 105 ppg is 105 ppg..


our best players are both in our back court. Defences will key in on that. In a 7 game series weakness' become glaring and that when it will hurt most. Right now does any of our bigs demand a double team? Do any of them consistently pose a threat offensivley ?

If im the coach on the other team, Im looking to lock down dero and lowry. If we had more balance and had a threat in the front court, that would prove more difficult to do.

The raps have had a very easy sched so far. Most games at home vs sub par teams. The only true tests were memphis, chicago, and maybe miami. The front court is where this team needs help the most currently.

smith&wesson
11-21-2014, 05:25 PM
Agreed. There's no rush, short term gain isn't MUs style from what we've seen so far.

David West is not a long term commitment. He is under contract this season and next. So that move wouldnt jepordize our long term flexibility. Thats why the deal apeals to me. Plus, were not moving any key core players in Lowry, Dero, Ross, Amir, or Jonas.

A big man rotation of Jonas, Amir, West along with depth bigs like TH, GS, and Hayes would really solidify our front court and were not parting with much to gain that imo.

smith&wesson
11-21-2014, 05:30 PM
I just dont see GVZ being as vital to our success as we once thought. Im starting to feel the same about 2pat.

If either of those guys could get us an upgrade in the front court with out it compromizing our future flexibility, I wouldnt be apposed to it. Specially since we have lou, jj, th who could all step in gvz's and 2pats current roles. With that said, I would only do this if the RIGHT deal presented itself.

ghettosean
11-21-2014, 06:19 PM
We have one of the best records in the league right now I don't see the need to move things around too much unless we can get an all star type of talent to insert into our starting lineup (all star PF or SF would be nice)

Jamiecballer
11-21-2014, 06:27 PM
but if 1 or 2 of those pieces could be packaged to improve our big man rotation, I think its a no brainer. We have needs that should be adressed in order to go anywhere in the post season. David West is someone I think the raps should target. I have no problem with revisiting that trade for Patman for him, as I think West would help this team alot.
He can't play center though so I can't see him helping us. I do share the desire to improve the front court.

smith&wesson
11-21-2014, 06:56 PM
We have one of the best records in the league right now I don't see the need to move things around too much unless we can get an all star type of talent to insert into our starting lineup (all star PF or SF would be nice)

I hope that people realize were on a 7 game home stand... very favourable sched to start thus far. It wont be this easy moving forward, and especially not in the playoffs.

Don't get me wrong im excited a the next guy about the winning, but keep things in perspective.

smith&wesson
11-21-2014, 06:57 PM
He can't play center though so I can't see him helping us. I do share the desire to improve the front court.

no but amir can, and hopefully he and Jonas can mound most of the mins at 5.

Jamiecballer
11-21-2014, 07:16 PM
I don't think that does much for us. Jonas is the weakness in our starting 5. Get a strong backup big who can score a few buckets in the post and you got something IMO.

Eagles4Lyfe
11-21-2014, 07:27 PM
How the heck is it Pattersons fault we suck at rebounding, he boxes his guy out and rarely does his guy continuously beat him.
Patterson is the perfect glue guy for our team, where the heck is the hate for him coming from. He's made some timely shots for us this year and if you haven't been watching he's always the integral part of our comebacks.

Same with GV, the season just started, some players start slow and take time to get accustomed to things. Lou Williams absolutely isn't impacting his results, the dude had Salmos last year doing the same crap.

Give him time, we have an elite bench why ruin that?
Our biggest weakness as a team for the last two years has been length and rebounding, nothing else. We fix that and were laughing.

Grievis and Ppat are not the reason why our boarding sucks.

Ross, Derozan have to get involved more crashimg the boards.

pulzar
11-21-2014, 08:04 PM
We have to be careful we any trade that takes something away to help a weakness. Maybe we suck at rebounding because we do other things on defense, like switching off and helping out on penetrations. Maybe that's why we have one of the better Ds in the league. You replace that with someone focused on rebounding, and the D collapses.

I'd much rather try to fix things through player growth and better systems than replacing pieces that seem to work together, even if they have flaws individually.

albertajaysfan
11-21-2014, 08:18 PM
We have to be careful we any trade that takes something away to help a weakness. Maybe we suck at rebounding because we do other things on defense, like switching off and helping out on penetrations. Maybe that's why we have one of the better Ds in the league. You replace that with someone focused on rebounding, and the D collapses.

I'd much rather try to fix things through player growth and better systems than replacing pieces that seem to work together, even if they have flaws individually.

That is a good point. Look at Kevin Love, beast on the boards but an atrocious defender.

deaner
11-22-2014, 02:24 AM
Would anyone Trade Hans to the nets for Kirilenko? I know there's not a lot of minutes for him... JJ might get more at the 4.

LanceUpperCut
11-22-2014, 10:46 AM
Would anyone Trade Hans to the nets for Kirilenko? I know there's not a lot of minutes for him... JJ might get more at the 4.

I'd be all over that seem's like it could be possible too considering the feud with AK and the Nets.

Miltstar
11-22-2014, 11:17 AM
you don't make trades when you're 10-2

deaner
11-22-2014, 11:45 AM
you don't make trades when you're 10-2

That's coasting. I think you always try and get better.

AK could definitely contribute if his attitude is good.

I'd rather trade feilds to philly to give the nets an exemption for AK coming to TO. Nets give some cash to Philly. Keep Tyler. We need him.

Having Lowry, Ross, AK, JJ and Val on the floor at once would shut teams down.

AK could provide some needed defense and passing.

LanceUpperCut
11-22-2014, 06:19 PM
Patterson, Bebe and a 1st for Monroe.

Not sure how much more teams would give for half a year of Monroe and it would be pretty tough to lose all of that and have him walk but it would be risk I'd take.

deaner
11-22-2014, 06:38 PM
Patterson, Bebe and a 1st for Monroe.

Not sure how much more teams would give for half a year of Monroe and it would be pretty tough to lose all of that and have him walk but it would be risk I'd take.

I think that's inconsistsnt with the way Masai has been operating. He hasn't spent assets for the short term. If he wanted Monroe he can be had as an unrestricted free agent. Your offer is 3 good pieces for one.

LanceUpperCut
11-22-2014, 06:41 PM
Patterson, Bebe and a 1st for Monroe.

Not sure how much more teams would give for half a year of Monroe and it would be pretty tough to lose all of that and have him walk but it would be risk I'd take.

I think that's inconsistsnt with the way Masai has been operating. He hasn't spent assets for the short term. If he wanted Monroe he can be had as an unrestricted free agent. Your offer is 3 good pieces for one.

It's three decent piece for one very good piece. But I do agree it isn't MU's style but having his rights and simply giving him a taste of this team and playoffs might help him decide.

deaner
11-22-2014, 06:46 PM
It's three decent piece for one very good piece. But I do agree it isn't MU's style but having his rights and simply giving him a taste of this team and playoffs might help him decide.

I'm pretty sure Monroe had interest in the raps. There was a story in the summer where monroe's agent asked teams not to make offers so the Pistons could match.... Therefore giving Monroe the opportunity to chose his destination.

Bramaca
11-22-2014, 07:12 PM
I like Monroe, he is a very good offensive player and a solid positional defender. Love his passing abilities for a big. He is an odd fit though, a pf who is a good rim protector/help defender and can hit an outside shot would be an ideal match for him. The Thunder with Ibaka or the Pelicans with Davis come to mind. Not sure about him with the Raps.

BHF
11-22-2014, 07:26 PM
Monroe would be a huge upgrade it just depends how much we have to give up.

Miltstar
11-22-2014, 11:54 PM
Monroe would be a huge upgrade it just depends how much we have to give up.

With the roll we're on right now you don't dare mess with the chemistry like that

Jamiecballer
11-23-2014, 12:07 AM
Why do people keep recommending trades for a pf? Our glaring weakness is the center position. Smh.

LanceUpperCut
11-23-2014, 12:19 AM
Why do people keep recommending trades for a pf? Our glaring weakness is the center position. Smh.

Hey I love Amir( not near as much as you ) but I'd take JV over Amir any day. I don't want to lose Amir but to add a stud like Monroe would be awesome

albertajaysfan
11-23-2014, 01:51 AM
Why do people keep recommending trades for a pf? Our glaring weakness is the center position. Smh.

Monroe is better suited to playing as a Centre. His best season's were when he was manning the 5 before Drummond got drafted.

deaner
11-23-2014, 01:54 AM
Monroe is better suited to playing as a Centre. His best season's were when he was manning the 5 before Drummond got drafted.

For me, that actually my preferred target. A Center that can start at PF with Val and then checker board the rest of the minutes at the 5 while Amir and Pat play the 4. It gives us depth at the 5 and a starting 4.

koreancabbage
11-23-2014, 05:31 AM
Why do people keep recommending trades for a pf? Our glaring weakness is the center position. Smh.

it doesn't matter as long as the big is a rim protector.

Gasol would be the ideal player we want. scorer and facilitator.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-23-2014, 06:54 AM
Only trades realistic at the moment are trades that include only Fields, Hayes, Hansbrough, Steimsma, Bebe, Bruno (even then, Bruno and Bebe probably not traded). This team can't consider trading any of the other guys that play.

mike_noodles
11-23-2014, 08:01 AM
Why do people keep recommending trades for a pf? Our glaring weakness is the center position. Smh.

Because our starting PF is breaking down physically right before our eyes, gotta be looking the other way if you can't see it.

pulzar
11-23-2014, 09:25 AM
Only trades realistic at the moment are trades that include only Fields, Hayes, Hansbrough, Steimsma, Bebe, Bruno (even then, Bruno and Bebe probably not traded). This team can't consider trading any of the other guys that play.

Yeah. Plus picks. Still not that much to offer...

koreancabbage
11-23-2014, 11:29 AM
Yeah. Plus picks. Still not that much to offer...

pretty much BUT anyone is tradeable if you can improve the team i.e. top all star level players.

I don't see Raptors making a move though this year. Hopefully we clear cap space for Gasol! Those Knicks fan think they can get everyone =P Imagine the Raptors having Gasol?

Jamiecballer
11-23-2014, 12:00 PM
it doesn't matter as long as the big is a rim protector.

Gasol would be the ideal player we want. scorer and facilitator.
It matters to me if it pushes Amir to the bench so as long as its a big capable of being effective at center I'm all for it.

Jamiecballer
11-23-2014, 12:01 PM
Because our starting PF is breaking down physically right before our eyes, gotta be looking the other way if you can't see it.
He's still critically important to the performance of our starting five who rely heavily in picks and screens.

douac4
11-23-2014, 12:40 PM
For me, that actually my preferred target. A Center that can start at PF with Val and then checker board the rest of the minutes at the 5 while Amir and Pat play the 4. It gives us depth at the 5 and a starting 4.

I still don't see ppat as a pf. he plays more like a long sf. now that Williams seems to be bringing some consistency from the 3 look at what has happened to ppat's scoring stats. I can't see amir playing anywhere else and to keep him healthy over the season, they really have to manage his minutes.

still until raps have played the western conference teams, we really don't know whether a physical, rebounding backup 4 will be needed

North Yorker
11-23-2014, 12:44 PM
He's still critically important to the performance of our starting five who rely heavily in picks and screens.

That doesn't matter if he can't stay healthy and play the way he needs to play.

Besides, getting a PF that can actually post some people up and score higher percentage shots rather than one setting up screens that lead to long 2 point attempts may not be such a bad thing.

ink
11-23-2014, 12:47 PM
Because our starting PF is breaking down physically right before our eyes, gotta be looking the other way if you can't see it.
He's still critically important to the performance of our starting five who rely heavily in picks and screens.

Whether they like it or not they will have to cover themselves for the likelihood of injury. Besides, every player needs to learn those fundamentals if a team is going to succeed.

Sanyo
11-23-2014, 12:48 PM
I think you keep JV because he's cheap for the next three years and replace Amir -- I know Amir is the heart and soul of the team who's been with them thick and thin, but his contributions are getting worse, his ankles are clearly slowing him down. Amir could potentially be a back up C or PF and interchange with P Pat there. I would grab a Millsap or similar to play PF with Jonas. Millsap gives you that inside presence for scoring and can help offset the load from J Val.

Jamiecballer
11-23-2014, 02:59 PM
That doesn't matter if he can't stay healthy and play the way he needs to play.

Besides, getting a PF that can actually post some people up and score higher percentage shots rather than one setting up screens that lead to long 2 point attempts may not be such a bad thing.
I think its premature to suggest that he can't stay healthy. Warning signs, sure.

And I don't think Amir is responsible for Derozans poor shot selection. When he settles that's on him.

Jamiecballer
11-23-2014, 03:01 PM
Whether they like it or not they will have to cover themselves for the likelihood of injury. Besides, every player needs to learn those fundamentals if a team is going to succeed.
That's like saying everyone needs to learn the fundamentals of shooting. There is a skill there that not everyone can excel at just the same.

FriedTofuz
11-23-2014, 03:22 PM
I think Amir is still the best defender on this team, his rebounding should be a lot better. we need more frontcourt help, none of our bigs can grab 8-10 rebs consistently. We need a PF or Center that can give us 8-10 rebounds + defense each night.

North Yorker
11-23-2014, 03:31 PM
I think its premature to suggest that he can't stay healthy. Warning signs, sure.

And I don't think Amir is responsible for Derozans poor shot selection. When he settles that's on him.

His ankles are hindering him from doing the things that made him good. He set the most screens in the league last year per 36, and now he's 49th this season. It's affecting his mobility on defense and the offensive glass.

And no, it's not just DeRozan. It's DeRozan, Ross, Lou, and whoever else they run off screens for long 2 attempts. Having an offense that is catered to those type of shots is not what you want, especially since those are the shots the defense WANTS you to take. No team is going to jump shoot their way to a title.

Getting a PF that actually can provide some higher percentage low post scoring represents a shift in offensive philosophy that could make us harder to stop and better overall, especially come playoff time.