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JustinTime
11-02-2014, 12:24 PM
I know it's only been 3 games so far but is anyone surprised at how bad these guys have looked considering the hype they had. Both have a PER below 6.2 and have looked awful in the parts of their games that they were hyped to be great at. Jabari was hyped as a great offensive player but all he's been is inefficient chucker. Jabari shot 5-17 last game and does not look nearly as NBA ready as said. Wiggins was said to be raw offensively and a great defender but the only part of that is true so far is that he is raw offensively with no left. Wiggins got destroyed offensively by Jimmy Butler all game yesterday and end up costing his team the win with a really stupid foul. People try to tack it up as a rookie mistake but basketball is basketball you don't jump at someone with .2 on the clock in college either.Anyways I just thought there should be a thread for these two considering the hype they each had.

5ass
11-02-2014, 12:32 PM
Not surprised at all. I think they're both overrated. ROY race is going to be between 5 guys this season.

waveycrockett
11-02-2014, 12:46 PM
It's a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG season. Relax. They will both emerge at some point this season. Not everyone can be Michael Carter Williams and take the NBA by storm. On a side note Anthony Bennett looks real good SO FAR this season after his EPIC FAIL of a rookie season. The Development process takes time.

0nekhmer
11-02-2014, 12:54 PM
Wiggins is lucky he isn't on the cavs anymore. Would've been put on blast everywhere.

2-ONE-5
11-02-2014, 12:59 PM
neither is a first 2 option on their team right now. Parker has to deal with Mayo and Knight and sometimes Middleton getting theirs and we knew Wiggins wasnt going to do much statistically this year with Thad, Pek, and K Mart needing their touches. But PArker has at least had back to back double doubles and looks to be in really good shape despite all those nonsense rumor before the season

BUT its been 3 games calm down, this is why this forum sucks anymore everyone jumps the gun on every little thing

ThuglifeJ
11-02-2014, 01:00 PM
Always thought Wiggins hype was dumb. Parker will be ok I think.

Daze9900
11-02-2014, 01:01 PM
This might be an over reaction thread. Jabari looked good albeit in the pre-season but you have to think that he'll put together a good stretch of the season and finish off hitting the "rookie wall" like most players do. From what I see also Chris Middleton is jacking up alot of shots on that team I expect that to change. As for Wiggins I think he's trying to figure out how he's going to score in this league. His jumper is not legit like that and you gotta get stops on defense and grab boards in order to be a transition team. His crossover is not legit either so a half court set is not for him either. There needs to be ball screens and back door plays called for him and he needs to get those hustle points too. I expect him to be under 15ppg this year and we can revisit if he is a bust or not by year 3. Jabari I expect to pick up his play.

Miltstar
11-02-2014, 01:04 PM
Wiggins played 30 minutes at +3 with 2 blocks, 2 steals and 6 rebounds. Not bad for your third NBA game at 19 years of age. He's got a lot of work to do still but at least give him half a season or so before you start ripping into him. Jabari had a bad game, it happens. He's also 19 and adjusting to a new league, you can't expect everything to happen right away. Otto Porter Jr barely saw the court last year but looks like he'll be a fixture for the wiz this year. Rookies are on the team to learn and develop not carry the squad

jakedajewler
11-02-2014, 01:07 PM
Wiggins will be a great player but it'll take time with him, personality wise he's a bit different

abe_froman
11-02-2014, 01:11 PM
yup,3 game sample size=thats all you are,all you'll ever be.no chance they will ever get better.

JustinTime
11-02-2014, 01:21 PM
neither is a first 2 option on their team right now. Parker has to deal with Mayo and Knight and sometimes Middleton getting theirs and we knew Wiggins wasnt going to do much statistically this year with Thad, Pek, and K Mart needing their touches. But PArker has at least had back to back double doubles and looks to be in really good shape despite all those nonsense rumor before the season

BUT its been 3 games calm down, this is why this forum sucks anymore everyone jumps the gun on every little thing

I started it off with "I know it's only been three games so far" so I'm aware my sample pool is small but I still thought these guys would be better than that in their first few games. Last years bust Anthony Bennett has outplayed both so far which is hilarious to think about.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-02-2014, 01:35 PM
I think your reading to much into things. Only 3 games in for the Bucks. Knight been chucking away like usual and killing the flow of the offense. Also still have other guys that want the ball like Mayo, Middleton and Bayless, Dudley, Ersan. Parker had a quick 9 points in first quarter of the 76ers game. Then was completely fazed out after that. Also Kidd using 12 man rotations. Also shuffling 13 of 15 players nightly beyond the injured Inglis and JOB. Kidd needs to reel that into 8-9 players. Or Bucks need a 2 for 1 trade.

2-ONE-5
11-02-2014, 01:52 PM
I started it off with "I know it's only been three games so far" so I'm aware my sample pool is small but I still thought these guys would be better than that in their first few games. Last years bust Anthony Bennett has outplayed both so far which is hilarious to think about.

wait so its hilarious that the player with more NBA experience who was the previous years #1 pick is playing better after 3 games? hahaha ooooook

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-02-2014, 02:10 PM
both are total busts

Goose17
11-02-2014, 02:11 PM
both are total busts

After three games?

Jeffy25
11-02-2014, 02:25 PM
Isn't Butler also an elite defender?

It's been 3 games.


But, Lebron's first 3 games he was

.469 FG%, 18.0 PPG, 7.7 Assists, 7.2 Rebounds, 2.3 Steals, 14.8 Game Score

Kobe's first two starts:
.433 FG%, 19.5 PPG, 4.0 Assists, 4.5 Rebounds, 2.5 Steals, 16.1 Game Score

Garnett's first three starts:
.529 FG%, 7.3 PPG, 2.3 Assists, 6.7 Rebounds, 2.3 Blocks, 8.8 Game Score

Derrick Rose's first three starts:
.465 FG%, 18.3 PPG, 4.3 Assists, 4.7 Rebounds, 1.3 Steals, 13.3 Game Score


In other words, a very young players first three games in the NBA tell us nothing.

Jeffy25
11-02-2014, 02:27 PM
I started it off with "I know it's only been three games so far" so I'm aware my sample pool is small but I still thought these guys would be better than that in their first few games. Last years bust Anthony Bennett has outplayed both so far which is hilarious to think about.

Do you not see how ironic this is?

More-Than-Most
11-02-2014, 02:32 PM
sixers got the best player in the draft

HoopsDrive
11-02-2014, 02:36 PM
Half this forum must suffer from premature ejaculation problems...

3 games dude

IKnowHoops
11-02-2014, 02:41 PM
I know it's only been 3 games so far but is anyone surprised at how bad these guys have looked considering the hype they had. Both have a PER below 6.2 and have looked awful in the parts of their games that they were hyped to be great at. Jabari was hyped as a great offensive player but all he's been is inefficient chucker. Jabari shot 5-17 last game and does not look nearly as NBA ready as said. Wiggins was said to be raw offensively and a great defender but the only part of that is true so far is that he is raw offensively with no left. Wiggins got destroyed offensively by Jimmy Butler all game yesterday and end up costing his team the win with a really stupid foul. People try to tack it up as a rookie mistake but basketball is basketball you don't jump at someone with .2 on the clock in college either.Anyways I just thought there should be a thread for these two considering the hype they each had.

Not attacking you here at all...but where you the one who was in the cleveland forum saying how big of a mistake cleveland made trading wiggins for love, and that Wiggins was looking like a beast who would outplay love this year? I'm just wondering if you were that person. If so thank you for making this thread cause you are absolutely right with the questions you bring up.
These guys were getting Bron hype and they are clearly going to have first years like Kobe. Not a big deal really because look at how great Kobe turned out. They are young and have a lot of physical and mental growth ahead of them.
Much different playing with grown men than little boys.

IKnowHoops
11-02-2014, 02:55 PM
Not attacking you here at all...but where you the one who was in the cleveland forum saying how big of a mistake cleveland made trading wiggins for love, and that Wiggins was looking like a beast who would outplay love? I'm just wondering if you were that person. If so thank you for making this thread cause you are absolutely right with the questions you bring up.
These guys were getting Bron hype and they are clearly going to have first years like Kobe. Not a big deal really because look at how great Kobe turned out. They are young and have a lot of physical and mental growth ahead of them.
Much different playing with grown men than little boys.

And when I say absolutely right, I don't mean in the way of them being busts. Thats way to premature, but I do mean in the way of them being Bron in there first years, leading the teams there on as 19 year olds, and making significant impacts as rookies. I think they were hyped up to be 20pts scorers as rookies and that was what I was referring to as overhyped. And again I heard that Wiggins would be better than Love this year. Thats the type of overhype I'm talking about.

JustinTime
11-02-2014, 03:11 PM
wait so its hilarious that the player with more NBA experience who was the previous years #1 pick is playing better after 3 games? hahaha ooooook

No, it's hilarious because people said he was way worse than Kwame Brown and now he has a PER which is nearly 4 times higher than the ridiculously over hyped #1 and #2 picks in this year. People were pissed when they took him #1 too but I'm starting to see why now.

SeoulBeatz
11-02-2014, 03:13 PM
Well the Sixers played the Bucks a couple days ago and it's clear that Jabari Parker isn't getting the touches to put up big scoring numbers yet. I saw him as the most NBA ready player in the draft but Mayo was taking the majority of the shots. He doesn't want to come in with a big ego and demand the ball in his first few games, which is understandable and the right thing to do for a rookie.

Give them time. It's 3 ****ing games ffs.

JustinTime
11-02-2014, 03:14 PM
Not attacking you here at all...but where you the one who was in the cleveland forum saying how big of a mistake cleveland made trading wiggins for love, and that Wiggins was looking like a beast who would outplay love this year? I'm just wondering if you were that person. If so thank you for making this thread cause you are absolutely right with the questions you bring up.
These guys were getting Bron hype and they are clearly going to have first years like Kobe. Not a big deal really because look at how great Kobe turned out. They are young and have a lot of physical and mental growth ahead of them.
Much different playing with grown men than little boys.

Yea I said that but I'm not afraid to change what I think if I was wrong, something politicians should learn.

JustinTime
11-02-2014, 03:15 PM
Well the Sixers played the Bucks a couple days ago and it's clear that Jabari Parker isn't getting the touches to put up big scoring numbers yet. I saw him as the most NBA ready player in the draft but Mayo was taking the majority of the shots. He doesn't want to come in with a big ego and demand the ball in his first few games, which is understandable and the right thing to do for a rookie.

Give them time. It's 3 ****ing games ffs.

Parker already has had a game with `17 FGA and 19 FGA he's definitely getting a lot of shots. He reminds me a lot of Rudy Gay.

IKnowHoops
11-02-2014, 03:27 PM
Yea I said that but I'm not afraid to change what I think if I was wrong, something politicians should learn.

OK cool, no problem with that.

FriedTofuz
11-02-2014, 03:30 PM
yeah 2 whole games, they're definitely busts (Sarcasm)

JustinTime
11-02-2014, 03:32 PM
OK cool, no problem with that.

Jury is still out too I could be right in the end but I have my doubts.

2-ONE-5
11-02-2014, 03:33 PM
no, it's hilarious because people said he was way worse than kwame brown and now he has a per which is nearly 4 times higher than the ridiculously over hyped #1 and #2 picks in this year. People were pissed when they took him #1 too but i'm starting to see why now.

three games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bucketss
11-02-2014, 03:54 PM
No, it's hilarious because people said he was way worse than Kwame Brown and now he has a PER which is nearly 4 times higher than the ridiculously over hyped #1 and #2 picks in this year. People were pissed when they took him #1 too but I'm starting to see why now.

your boy bennet didn't even make a single basket this time last year.

LanceUpperCut
11-02-2014, 03:57 PM
What is happening to PSD? The threads in the NBA forum have been just horrible this year, come on people were better then this.

kobe4thewinbang
11-02-2014, 04:08 PM
They definitely don't have their sea legs yet, but I think they'll get the hang of it. Probably nerves on the big stage. It takes every rookie some time to adjust to the speed of the game, and the other realities of the NBA. I think they'll both improve. I would say Parker will win rookie of the year.

zn23
11-02-2014, 04:14 PM
They'll be fine. Going into the season I think everyone knew that Wiggins would struggle more. Give him a couple years and he'll be better.

YAALREADYKNO
11-02-2014, 04:17 PM
Durant shot like 10/30 one time as a rookie too and look at how he turned out? gotta give these guys some time

GiantsSwaGG
11-02-2014, 04:52 PM
/thread plz

IKnowHoops
11-02-2014, 05:48 PM
Jury is still out too I could be right in the end but I have my doubts.

You have just proven that this thread is a waste with this statement.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-02-2014, 06:03 PM
After three games?

of course

koreancabbage
11-02-2014, 06:32 PM
both players looks like he contributes everywhere on the floor, a little bit here and there. Probably getting acclimated to NBA speed and when and where to do something.

believe the hype. Once these two freight trains start moving, i don't think anything can stop them.

Jeffy25
11-02-2014, 06:33 PM
No, it's hilarious because people said he was way worse than Kwame Brown and now he has a PER which is nearly 4 times higher than the ridiculously over hyped #1 and #2 picks in this year. People were pissed when they took him #1 too but I'm starting to see why now.

Go see how great Kwame was in his first three games

JEDean89
11-02-2014, 06:49 PM
The busters are trolling. The fact is this was also one of the youngest rookie classes we've seen in a long time. Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Gordon, Exum, Randle, Lavine, Vonleh and many others were all 19 when selected. Smart and Stauskas came of their rookie year. I think McDermott was the oldest player to be selected in the lottery, then adrian payne at 14.

Melo, LBJ, Durant were all freaks their rookie seasons. Not even the great Anthony Davis had a jaw dropping rookie year (though he was pretty damn good, same with lillard). Blake was a sophomore coming out of college, then missed his entire rookie year. Bari should be a better player in his 3rd year than Blake was in his 1st. Wiggins is gonna follow a more Paul George, Kawhi Leonard time path. Creeping up as a defensive stalwart while filling out their body while learning to play offense. Then in year 2-3, when he should 10-15 lbs heavier, he will turn into a high teens scorer. My guess is it will take 4-5 years to get him into the 20's scoring.

This is a man's game, only true manchildren will succeed their rookie year.

Corey
11-02-2014, 06:49 PM
Wiggins absolutely deserves hype, but anyone that didnt realize he needs time to develop is dumb. If anyone expected him to come in and light it up right away, they had no idea what they were talking about it.

JustinTime
11-02-2014, 07:33 PM
Wiggins absolutely deserves hype, but anyone that didnt realize he needs time to develop is dumb. If anyone expected him to come in and light it up right away, they had no idea what they were talking about it.

The thing about Wiggins is he's really dumb. He has every tool in the world to be great besides bulk right now but he may never be able to put it together because he lacks both on and off court intelligence. I used to think Derick Rose was dumb but Wiggins makes him look like he's Albert Einstein.

Corey
11-02-2014, 07:48 PM
The thing about Wiggins is he's really dumb. He has every tool in the world to be great besides bulk right now but he may never be able to put it together because he lacks both on and off court intelligence. I used to think Derick Rose was dumb but Wiggins makes him look like he's Albert Einstein.

You dont need to be book smart to excel in sports.

Hawkeye15
11-02-2014, 07:52 PM
bit early? Wiggins was the best player on the floor in the 3rd quarter of his last 2 games. He is trying to be super aggressive defensively, needs to relax some. On offense, still trying to find his pecking order. But the Wolves usually isolate him a handful of times in a row to make his more assertive. He has disappeared at times, but he has also shown huge flashes of his defensive impact (he owned a few possessions in a row on that end last night), and his scoring/offense will come. I am actually less worried about him after watching him in person the last 2 games than I was before the season started.

Haven't watched Parker yet, no opinion until I do so. But from what I saw in the preseason, he will be an excellent volume scorer at least, though I don't think he will be able to defend at the NBA level. My GUESS from watching him in college/preseason, was a mix of Melo/Gay. Not as good as Melo, but better than Gay in a few years.

Hawkeye15
11-02-2014, 07:53 PM
The thing about Wiggins is he's really dumb. He has every tool in the world to be great besides bulk right now but he may never be able to put it together because he lacks both on and off court intelligence. I used to think Derick Rose was dumb but Wiggins makes him look like he's Albert Einstein.

KG couldn't get a minimum score to get into college, and I had no clue what the **** he was saying his first few years in Minnesota when he was interviewed, he was that dumb....

He turned out ok

JustinTime
11-06-2014, 03:28 PM
Finally Wiggins is the first to have good game out of these two. Wiggins FT% is a joke though 45%.

Season PER
Jabari 7.49
Wiggins 8.95

I'm going to do a PER comparison for the season every few games because I think these two deserve it with the hype they brought and rivalry they have.

JustinTime
11-06-2014, 03:34 PM
Actually Jabari is awful at FT as well only 50%

albertajaysfan
11-06-2014, 03:40 PM
I started it off with "I know it's only been three games so far" so I'm aware my sample pool is small but I still thought these guys would be better than that in their first few games. Last years bust Anthony Bennett has outplayed both so far which is hilarious to think about.

If you thought they were going to be better it is your problem not theirs. You have unrealistic expectations of rookies if you think they are going to take the NBA by storm. That is quite a rare occurrence.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-06-2014, 03:40 PM
Kidd's going with 12 man rotations now. Parker started out the season with a few double doubles. But went from 37 minutes to 31 to 34 then to 27 and 25. Dipping a bit. Seems Kidd is either on the stealth tank starting Ersan and Dudley. Or were showcasing them or a bit of both.

JustinTime
11-06-2014, 03:48 PM
If you thought they were going to be better it is your problem not theirs. You have unrealistic expectations of rookies if you think they are going to take the NBA by storm. That is quite a rare occurrence.

It's the media's problem actually because no body would have cared if it weren't for them.

albertajaysfan
11-06-2014, 03:59 PM
It's the media's problem actually because no body would have cared if it weren't for them.

Do you believe everything people tell you? Personally I listen to other people but I can use my own judgment to form my own opinions. I agree with you that the media places unreal expectations on rookies. But that is a business strategy that drives readership/viewership.

The media does it for every single type of news. They intentionally use inflammatory language in headlines to get people going.

Here is a prime example for you unrelated to sports:
The new head of the Bank of Canada is saying young Canadians should consider working for free. That was the headline. However if you take the time to look into the story that is a sensational version of what he said. The context of the statement (paraphrasing) is that if young Canadians are having a difficult time finding work in their chosen field they should consider doing volunteer work or internships.

The reality though is that no one would have read the article under that headline. Most people would realize it is obvious and have quickly moved on. Not a sound business strategy. Sports reporting is no different.

Edit: Pretty sure the media don't view it as a problem.

WSU Tony
11-06-2014, 04:00 PM
It's the media's problem actually because no body would have cared if it weren't for them.

You bought what the media was selling. Internal reflection, friend.

JustinTime
11-06-2014, 04:28 PM
Do you believe everything people tell you? Personally I listen to other people but I can use my own judgment to form my own opinions. I agree with you that the media places unreal expectations on rookies. But that is a business strategy that drives readership/viewership.

The media does it for every single type of news. They intentionally use inflammatory language in headlines to get people going.

Here is a prime example for you unrelated to sports:
The new head of the Bank of Canada is saying young Canadians should consider working for free. That was the headline. However if you take the time to look into the story that is a sensational version of what he said. The context of the statement (paraphrasing) is that if young Canadians are having a difficult time finding work in their chosen field they should consider doing volunteer work or internships.

The reality though is that no one would have read the article under that headline. Most people would realize it is obvious and have quickly moved on. Not a sound business strategy. Sports reporting is no different.

Edit: Pretty sure the media don't view it as a problem.

It's not like it was one media source who caused all this these guys were hyped from pretty much everyone out there and they looked pretty good too in college so it was easy to justify the hype.

Off topic but I can relate to that example.Volunteer work and internship are often not paid or weren't until very recently so that headline is correct. I actually fall into that category right now I have a business degree but can't get a start-up job in my field because every job posting requires two years experience which leaves me with Volunteer or Internship work as my only options. If I take on a slave job like that I would need to run up a big debt just to survive for the years i'm working for free. A may not even grant me this in the first place because I wouldn't have a steady income. After finally finding a job I would have to spend all or most of my first years salary just paying off a debt I ran up due to working for free for two years I.e Internships/Volunteer work. Basically it's a trap just like they do to students who have to run up debts in order to pay for their get an education. I'm pretty sure Governments set it up like this on purpose so all their citizens are living in debt and that way they can suck every last cent from them.

Ty22Mitchell
11-06-2014, 09:08 PM
What is happening to PSD? The threads in the NBA forum have been just horrible this year, come on people were better then this.


I think t's because every thread has been a reactionary rant about some ESPN report, rather than people creating their own intuitive questions.

OlivaThor
11-07-2014, 12:59 PM
Jabari will be extraordinary offensive weapon very soon. Book it

JustinTime
11-09-2014, 12:17 PM
Jabari takes the lead after having two efficient shooting games in a row while Wiggins looked bad offensively in his last two.

Season Per
Jabari Parker 11.09
Andrew Wiggins 9.18

SoCal Bob
11-11-2014, 07:26 AM
wiggins defense is already elite

diu9leilomo
11-11-2014, 04:43 PM
all i know is this draft class is severely overrated

Hawkeye15
11-11-2014, 05:06 PM
wiggins defense is already elite

he is being overly aggressive so far, but the signs on him being an elite wing defender are all over the place. Dude will be a stopper in a year or two.

Miltstar
11-11-2014, 05:24 PM
all i know is this draft class is severely overrated

I don't know about that, three of the best prospects in the draft are injured (Embiid, Randle, Vonleh) 4 if you count Smart. Wiggins and Parker look like they'll live up to the hype. And there are still a bunch of guys making a meaningful impact on their team. Payton, McDaniels, Gordon, Exum, Bogdanovic, Nurkic, McBuckets to name a few.

Plus we still have the GOAT in training Bruno Caboclo yet to debut!

mike_noodles
11-11-2014, 05:43 PM
he is being overly aggressive so far, but the signs on him being an elite wing defender are all over the place. Dude will be a stopper in a year or two.

You're a Wolves fan yeah? Is he exciting to watch? Surprisingly we don't get as many Wolves games in Toronto as I would like to see.

Hawkeye15
11-11-2014, 05:54 PM
You're a Wolves fan yeah? Is he exciting to watch? Surprisingly we don't get as many Wolves games in Toronto as I would like to see.

he can be very exciting. He is trying to be more aggressive, but it will take some time for him to be aggressive all the time. He still drives hard into the paint, not realizing that huge men are waiting for him, and he rushes his step back, but he is showing flashes 1-2 quarters a game of being something special at some point.

I figure his floor is Loul Deng with more athleticism. But I think he has perennial all star written all over him staring by year 3.

IndyRealist
11-11-2014, 06:43 PM
These guys are being force fed on bad teams without a real gameplan. I wouldn't read much into it until at least next year.

ManRam
11-11-2014, 06:49 PM
Wiggins' defense has been SUPERB for a rookie. Why his ceiling will always be higher than Jabari, IMO. But with ceilings you just never know.

But who cares? We're ~two weeks into the season. There is literally NOTHING to take away from any of these rookies at this point. Nothing at all. If you're using anything they've done to speak in absolutes about how their careers will shake out, you probably just have your mind made up already and you might as well not bother.

FlashBolt
11-12-2014, 05:42 PM
Of course they are stuck on bad teams.. how else did they get drafted? I don't want to hear it about the bad team dilemma because there were more than enough legendary players who put up big-time numbers right off the bat. With that being said, it's fairly early and with Wiggins, it's a long-term project. I expected Parker to make a bigger imprint on the game, though.

SeoulBeatz
11-12-2014, 06:06 PM
Of course they are stuck on bad teams.. how else did they get drafted? I don't want to hear it about the bad team dilemma because there were more than enough legendary players who put up big-time numbers right off the bat. With that being said, it's fairly early and with Wiggins, it's a long-term project. I expected Parker to make a bigger imprint on the game, though.

Same, but I really don't like Jason Kidd as a HC. Obviously I haven't seen enough Bucks games for my opinion to really have much warrant, but I saw that DNP-CD he gave Khris Middleton (one of the bucks key role players for the past year) and question whether he truly knows how to manage a team and develop young talent.

Could a bucks fan give me some perspective on how JKidd has been as a head coach? Is he the guy? And is Jabari being given the green light?

mike_noodles
11-12-2014, 09:29 PM
he can be very exciting. He is trying to be more aggressive, but it will take some time for him to be aggressive all the time. He still drives hard into the paint, not realizing that huge men are waiting for him, and he rushes his step back, but he is showing flashes 1-2 quarters a game of being something special at some point.

I figure his floor is Loul Deng with more athleticism. But I think he has perennial all star written all over him staring by year 3.

Thanks, I appreciate it. A more athletic Deng is a fantastic player. Lots to look forward to.

Howard_Zinn
11-13-2014, 12:10 AM
I like Exum too.. Smooth as silk.. Kid is going to be a star in my opinion..

ink
11-13-2014, 12:55 AM
neither is a first 2 option on their team right now. Parker has to deal with Mayo and Knight and sometimes Middleton getting theirs and we knew Wiggins wasnt going to do much statistically this year with Thad, Pek, and K Mart needing their touches. But PArker has at least had back to back double doubles and looks to be in really good shape despite all those nonsense rumor before the season

BUT its been 3 games calm down, this is why this forum sucks anymore everyone jumps the gun on every little thing

I started it off with "I know it's only been three games so far" so I'm aware my sample pool is small but I still thought these guys would be better than that in their first few games. Last years bust Anthony Bennett has outplayed both so far which is hilarious to think about.

Or maybe calling Bennett a bust was also ridiculous.

ink
11-13-2014, 12:56 AM
both are total busts

After three games?

Amazingly bad forum sometimes. smh

ink
11-13-2014, 12:58 AM
You're a Wolves fan yeah? Is he exciting to watch? Surprisingly we don't get as many Wolves games in Toronto as I would like to see.

he can be very exciting. He is trying to be more aggressive, but it will take some time for him to be aggressive all the time. He still drives hard into the paint, not realizing that huge men are waiting for him, and he rushes his step back, but he is showing flashes 1-2 quarters a game of being something special at some point.

I figure his floor is Loul Deng with more athleticism. But I think he has perennial all star written all over him staring by year 3.

Thanks for the perspective. He IS 19 after all. Just learning the game.

ricky recon
11-13-2014, 01:02 AM
They will both be perennial all stars.

jaydubb
11-13-2014, 07:45 AM
Are there any rookies exceeding expectations so far?

muelly
11-13-2014, 08:28 AM
Same, but I really don't like Jason Kidd as a HC. Obviously I haven't seen enough Bucks games for my opinion to really have much warrant, but I saw that DNP-CD he gave Khris Middleton (one of the bucks key role players for the past year) and question whether he truly knows how to manage a team and develop young talent.

Could a bucks fan give me some perspective on how JKidd has been as a head coach? Is he the guy? And is Jabari being given the green light?

As a Bucks fan thus far I like Kidd, and I really like the direction of this team. Opening night had a feeling I haven't felt at the arena since the playoff series vs the Hawks. He's brought a new energy to this team, including potentially reviving Larry Sanders (needs a power move around basket for putbacks IMO, sick of the soft put backs that he misses). It's been a long time we've seen bodies diving for loose balls (multiple bodies at that). He's still learning what he has and I believe he's trying to ease Parker in without adding pressure to the hype. He's shown flashes of that he can be a very good player, he gets a bit lost on defense as expected, but so don't many elite scorers. We've been in a lot of close games, he hasn't used Jabari as much as one might expect in crunch time. Thus far I've been pleased with both Kidd & Jabari.

The Middleton DNP was a surprise but he is a very lazy/poor defender, so to a certain level it's justified. I think we need to reevaluate this topic at a later date, were talking about 2 kids who are just 19 years old.

Meanwhile our other 19 year old Antetokoumnpo has shown great improvement. Many were upset he's not starting but he's benefitting from being on the 2nd team. He's getting plays run through him, handling the ball, creating mismatches against other teams 3/4's. Last few games he's been very good in crunch time.

I don't believe I'm alone in Wisconsin when I say I/were happy and/or impressed in all facets. The only worrisome spot is Knight IMO. He's arguably our most talented player at the moment, but he has an ability to force shots and give the ball back. It's going to be fun to see this team grow in the coming years.

Miltstar
11-13-2014, 10:29 AM
As a Bucks fan thus far I like Kidd, and I really like the direction of this team. Opening night had a feeling I haven't felt at the arena since the playoff series vs the Hawks. He's brought a new energy to this team

I don't think it's Kidd so much that brought the excitement more so than the fact that you have the most talented team Milwaukee has seen in a long time. (The talent obviously isn't fully developed yet, but its there)

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-13-2014, 11:01 AM
Same, but I really don't like Jason Kidd as a HC. Obviously I haven't seen enough Bucks games for my opinion to really have much warrant, but I saw that DNP-CD he gave Khris Middleton (one of the bucks key role players for the past year) and question whether he truly knows how to manage a team and develop young talent.

Could a bucks fan give me some perspective on how JKidd has been as a head coach? Is he the guy? And is Jabari being given the green light?

Kidd is going with 12 player rotations and shuffling in all 15 players except Inglis and JOB since their both injured. There's games where Parker scores a quick 9 points in first quarter. Then two quarters doesn't play and other quarter plays not drawn up for him and completely fazed out of the game. Giannis was used like that with coach Drew previous season. Parked Giannis in a corner and no plays drawn up for him. Also Middleton has a sore knee and Parker has a strained shoulder lingering since Summer League. Bucks desperately need a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 trade to trim some of the fat off the roster. But with minutes giving to everyone, less chances of Parker hitting the rookie wall.

JustinTime
11-15-2014, 11:18 AM
Back and forth Wiggins retakes the Per lead with a 15 pt and 20pt gm back to back.

Jabari Parker PER 10.10
Andrew Wiggins PER 10.67

Biggest surprise is that Wiggins is shooting .556 from the 3 and .473 from the field so far. While the super-NBA ready Jabari is shooting .250 from the 3 and only .418 from the field. I don't think athleticism is really separating the two at the NBA level. Wiggins can rise over anyone and create space easily whereas Jabari doesn't get up very high on his jumper and is much slower making him easier to guard.

5ass
11-15-2014, 11:41 AM
Aaron "the bust" Gordon has the highest PER of all rookies so far.

2-ONE-5
11-15-2014, 11:50 AM
its not even 10 games into the season, give it a rest. no need whatsoever to track their PER throughout the season. also who called Gordon a bust? leading in anything right now doesnt mean a thing

5ass
11-15-2014, 11:52 AM
its not even 10 games into the season, give it a rest. no need whatsoever to track their PER throughout the season. also who called Gordon a bust? leading in anything right now doesnt mean a thing

Are you serious? Basically everyone called Gordon a bust. They said he's not worthy of the 4th pick.

JustinTime
11-15-2014, 11:57 AM
Aaron "the bust" Gordon has the highest PER of all rookies so far.

Yea but he only shoots like 4 times a game. One thing with PER is that it you can get a very high score on limited shots as long as you were efficient with them. That's why I limited this to Jabari vs Wiggins because they are going to be high shot taking rookies and will each probably average 10+ FGA by the end of their rookie years. Aaron Gordon is looking good but lets see him keep that PER up taking two or three times the FGA per game.

5ass
11-15-2014, 12:22 PM
Yea but he only shoots like 4 times a game. One thing with PER is that it you can get a very high score on limited shots as long as you were efficient with them. That's why I limited this to Jabari vs Wiggins because they are going to be high shot taking rookies and will each probably average 10+ FGA by the end of their rookie years. Aaron Gordon is looking good but lets see him keep that PER up taking two or three times the FGA per game.

Well he's not a scorer, that's not his game. PER doesn't factor in his defensive versatility either, we won at least two games because of his defense. He shut down Joe Johnson and Thaddeus young in the 4th. Even checked JR smith and held him scoreless for that time.

Kaner
11-15-2014, 12:55 PM
Are you serious? Basically everyone called Gordon a bust. They said he's not worthy of the 4th pick.

That doesn't mean they're calling him a bust, people we're saying he was a reach where he was taken. Especially because the media coverage was pushing Exum as the consensus 4th pick. Gordon was one of the safest players in the draft, high energy defensive minded guys usually are. 10 games in and Gordon's one of the only guy's I think, who's been exactly who we thought he was.

FraziersKnicks
11-15-2014, 02:48 PM
Well he's not a scorer, that's not his game. PER doesn't factor in his defensive versatility either, we won at least two games because of his defense. He shut down Joe Johnson and Thaddeus young in the 4th. Even checked JR smith and held him scoreless for that time.

Most of the time JR Smith holds JR Smith scoreless.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-15-2014, 02:49 PM
Back and forth Wiggins retakes the Per lead with a 15 pt and 20pt gm back to back.

Jabari Parker PER 10.10
Andrew Wiggins PER 10.67

Biggest surprise is that Wiggins is shooting .556 from the 3 and .473 from the field so far. While the super-NBA ready Jabari is shooting .250 from the 3 and only .418 from the field. I don't think athleticism is really separating the two at the NBA level. Wiggins can rise over anyone and create space easily whereas Jabari doesn't get up very high on his jumper and is much slower making him easier to guard.

Thing is Kidd moved Ersan into starting line up at PF. Then moved Parker to SF. Parker prefers PF. His rebounds went downhill as well as scoring.

JustinTime
11-15-2014, 03:05 PM
Thing is Kidd moved Ersan into starting line up at PF. Then moved Parker to SF. Parker prefers PF. His rebounds went downhill as well as scoring.

Parker was better in college at PF than SF too so that's a dumb move by Kidd. I don't think Jabari has the quickness or athleticism to play the SF properly.

Hawkeye15
11-15-2014, 03:44 PM
Parker was better in college at PF than SF too so that's a dumb move by Kidd. I don't think Jabari has the quickness or athleticism to play the SF properly.

college PF's aren't 6'9-10", 265 lbs dudes...some of which can outshoot him...

Parker is straight up a SF in the NBA. One of the biggest reasons for his ceiling imo, he won't be able to guard either forward position well, and is going to be an excellent volume scorer in his peak, not a lot more. Thing Melo best case scenario (though I don't think he has that athleticism, I actually prefer his best case scenario to Big Dog, but this board is young, many don't remember him). Pretty bad ***, but not a top 7-8 player even at best case. He just doesn't have much in his game outside scoring, but he sure can do that...

JustinTime
11-15-2014, 04:37 PM
college PF's aren't 6'9-10", 265 lbs dudes...some of which can outshoot him...

Parker is straight up a SF in the NBA. One of the biggest reasons for his ceiling imo, he won't be able to guard either forward position well, and is going to be an excellent volume scorer in his peak, not a lot more. Thing Melo best case scenario (though I don't think he has that athleticism, I actually prefer his best case scenario to Big Dog, but this board is young, many don't remember him). Pretty bad ***, but not a top 7-8 player even at best case. He just doesn't have much in his game outside scoring, but he sure can do that...

Melo played a lot of PF early on. I think the only reason he switched back to SF was because there were too many PF's on the team. That's the same reason Jabari is being forced to play SF.

abe_froman
11-15-2014, 04:42 PM
he's hybrid forward,which will hurt him in finding a natural fit/being built around(like melo).but big dog is a great comp for him though

5ass
11-15-2014, 05:06 PM
Most of the time JR Smith holds JR Smith scoreless.

Regardless, Gordon played great defense on him. Forced him to shoot contested fadeaway threes.

SoCal Bob
11-16-2014, 03:52 AM
Another solid game for wiggins last night.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-16-2014, 07:43 AM
Also have to factor in Knight hindering most the team cause he's taking most the shots himself in a contract year. Also Giannis is stringing along a few nice games off the bench as back up PF. Also as well as weird rotations by Kidd starting Ersan and Dudley. Where Wolves have a pass first pg in Rubio. Bucks usually winning or having huge comeback swing when Knight is on the bench. Better flow of the offense when Knight is benched.

North Yorker
11-16-2014, 10:13 AM
Also have to factor in Knight hindering most the team cause he's taking most the shots himself in a contract year. Also Giannis is stringing along a few nice games off the bench as back up PF. Also as well as weird rotations by Kidd starting Ersan and Dudley. Where Wolves have a pass first pg in Rubio. Bucks usually winning or having huge comeback swing when Knight is on the bench. Better flow of the offense when Knight is benched.

Rubio has been injured for like a week and a half and will be out a couple months. They have Lavine and Mo Williams running the point, both shoot first PGs.

5ass
11-16-2014, 10:47 AM
Also have to factor in Knight hindering most the team cause he's taking most the shots himself in a contract year. Also Giannis is stringing along a few nice games off the bench as back up PF. Also as well as weird rotations by Kidd starting Ersan and Dudley. Where Wolves have a pass first pg in Rubio. Bucks usually winning or having huge comeback swing when Knight is on the bench. Better flow of the offense when Knight is benched.

Sounds like a bunch of excuses if you ask me... lol

JustinTime
11-16-2014, 11:58 AM
Another solid game for wiggins last night.

Yea Wiggins sucked last night. Call me crazy but I honestly wonder if that guys is out of shape stamina wise because he coasts so much and yesterday was a back-to-back. Just because you're skinny doesn't mean you can run forever.

2-ONE-5
11-16-2014, 01:16 PM
Are you serious? Basically everyone called Gordon a bust. They said he's not worthy of the 4th pick.

saying he was overdrafted sint the same as calling him a bust. after the first 3 picks the next 7 were all in the same tier anyways

5ass
11-16-2014, 01:42 PM
saying he was overdrafted sint the same as calling him a bust. after the first 3 picks the next 7 were all in the same tier anyways

Find the thread made shortly after the draft asking who will bust, and you'll see what I mean.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-17-2014, 03:06 PM
Sounds like a bunch of excuses if you ask me... lol

Not much for excuses when the rotations are 12 players deep with Kidd at coach. Got Knight in a contract year chucking all night. Parker goes off for a quick 8 or 9 points first half then totally forgotten second half. Kidd flat out said he's not scared to play everyone. Knight gets his 20 points every night while like 6 others goes for double digits as well.

This roster isn't like the Bucks roster when we drafted Glenn Robinson when only other real player on that roster was Vin Baker. Course it was gonna be easy to get 20 a night back then. Have to wait and see since Kidd finally moved Giannis into starting role. Ersan benched. Parker back at pf. Also Bucks are #2 defense. Also have to remember Wolves traded Love off the roster. That's plenty of shots to go around. People have to remember Bucks didn't trade any high volume shooters off our roster.

Kinda hard to force in a #2 pick into a roster full of chuckers and expect him to lead the rookies with 20 a night. I was hoping. But not with Knight at the helm running the point. Then he plays the buddy system with Middleton passing to him. Soon as Knight is benched or moved to sg then we have a better flowing offense.

JustinTime
11-17-2014, 03:34 PM
Not much for excuses when the rotations are 12 players deep with Kidd at coach. Got Knight in a contract year chucking all night. Parker goes off for a quick 8 or 9 points first half then totally forgotten second half. Kidd flat out said he's not scared to play everyone. Knight gets his 20 points every night while like 6 others goes for double digits as well.

This roster isn't like the Bucks roster when we drafted Glenn Robinson when only other real player on that roster was Vin Baker. Course it was gonna be easy to get 20 a night back then. Have to wait and see since Kidd finally moved Giannis into starting role. Ersan benched. Parker back at pf. Also Bucks are #2 defense. Also have to remember Wolves traded Love off the roster. That's plenty of shots to go around. People have to remember Bucks didn't trade any high volume shooters off our roster.

Kinda hard to force in a #2 pick into a roster full of chuckers and expect him to lead the rookies with 20 a night. I was hoping. But not with Knight at the helm running the point. Then he plays the buddy system with Middleton passing to him. Soon as Knight is benched or moved to sg then we have a better flowing offense.

Sounds like Wiggins and Jabari play for the same type of teams because Wiggins has the same problem on the wolves with chuckers and buddy ball players. I've noticed both of these guys often have disappearing acts too where they don't do anything for half the game.

mngopher35
11-17-2014, 03:39 PM
Not much for excuses when the rotations are 12 players deep with Kidd at coach. Got Knight in a contract year chucking all night. Parker goes off for a quick 8 or 9 points first half then totally forgotten second half. Kidd flat out said he's not scared to play everyone. Knight gets his 20 points every night while like 6 others goes for double digits as well.

This roster isn't like the Bucks roster when we drafted Glenn Robinson when only other real player on that roster was Vin Baker. Course it was gonna be easy to get 20 a night back then. Have to wait and see since Kidd finally moved Giannis into starting role. Ersan benched. Parker back at pf. Also Bucks are #2 defense. Also have to remember Wolves traded Love off the roster. That's plenty of shots to go around. People have to remember Bucks didn't trade any high volume shooters off our roster.

Kinda hard to force in a #2 pick into a roster full of chuckers and expect him to lead the rookies with 20 a night. I was hoping. But not with Knight at the helm running the point. Then he plays the buddy system with Middleton passing to him. Soon as Knight is benched or moved to sg then we have a better flowing offense.

Parker currently gets more mpg than Wiggins and has a slightly higher usage% too. He is 2nd on his team in shots per game as well (wiggins is like 4-5th behind thad, pek, kmart and rubio but he's now injured). I am not sure what point exactly you are trying to make but Parker is certainly getting his chances compared to other rookies...

Hawkeye15
11-17-2014, 03:42 PM
Melo played a lot of PF early on. I think the only reason he switched back to SF was because there were too many PF's on the team. That's the same reason Jabari is being forced to play SF.

Jabari will get killed guarding PF's.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-17-2014, 04:14 PM
Parker currently gets more mpg than Wiggins and has a slightly higher usage% too. He is 2nd on his team in shots per game as well (wiggins is like 4-5th behind thad, pek, kmart and rubio but he's now injured). I am not sure what point exactly you are trying to make but Parker is certainly getting his chances compared to other rookies...

MPG doesn't mean much when your ignored. Ask Giannis last season. They made him stand out in the corner and was ignored most games. Also Wolves aren't playing 12 deep every game. Wolves played 9 games so far. Only 6 Wolves played all 9 games. So With Martin missing a game, Rubio miss 4 and other missing games or just benched. There's shots to go around. Also skews the averages in small sample size.

Bucks played 10 games. 9 Bucks played all 10 games. 13 players played minimum of 4 games with 2 players injured. If Bucks benched Knight all ten games trust me there be shots to go around. Didn't check every game but looks like Wolves only using 9 or 10 man rotations in games. Besides injuries. Thing Wiggins has over Parker right now is 3 point shooting percentage wise. Parker been cold from down town so far.

Bruno
11-17-2014, 04:35 PM
Also have to factor in Knight hindering most the team cause he's taking most the shots himself in a contract year. Also Giannis is stringing along a few nice games off the bench as back up PF. Also as well as weird rotations by Kidd starting Ersan and Dudley. Where Wolves have a pass first pg in Rubio. Bucks usually winning or having huge comeback swing when Knight is on the bench. Better flow of the offense when Knight is benched.

are you annoyed with Knight?

deep down, where do you want to see Giannis and Parker? what positions do you think each guy should be in this league. not now or for the sake of this season, but in 2-3 years.

Bruno
11-17-2014, 04:39 PM
MPG doesn't mean much when your ignored. Ask Giannis last season. They made him stand out in the corner and was ignored most games. Also Wolves aren't playing 12 deep every game. Wolves played 9 games so far. Only 6 Wolves played all 9 games. So With Martin missing a game, Rubio miss 4 and other missing games or just benched. There's shots to go around. Also skews the averages in small sample size.

Bucks played 10 games. 9 Bucks played all 10 games. 13 players played minimum of 4 games with 2 players injured. If Bucks benched Knight all ten games trust me there be shots to go around. Didn't check every game but looks like Wolves only using 9 or 10 man rotations in games. Besides injuries. Thing Wiggins has over Parker right now is 3 point shooting percentage wise. Parker been cold from down town so far.

Jabari won't be able to play SF in the future NBA without a three point shot.

the days of quality SF's not being able to shoot the 3 in the NBA are over imo. or at least, in prolonged multi-generational hibernation. the games changed, I think it will take a few player cycles before we see it shift back, if ever.

not saying he has to become an ace but hell have to shoot as well as big dog use to, at least.

mngopher35
11-17-2014, 04:45 PM
MPG doesn't mean much when your ignored. Ask Giannis last season. They made him stand out in the corner and was ignored most games. Also Wolves aren't playing 12 deep every game. Wolves played 9 games so far. Only 6 Wolves played all 9 games. So With Martin missing a game, Rubio miss 4 and other missing games or just benched. There's shots to go around. Also skews the averages in small sample size.

Bucks played 10 games. 9 Bucks played all 10 games. 13 players played minimum of 4 games with 2 players injured. If Bucks benched Knight all ten games trust me there be shots to go around. Didn't check every game but looks like Wolves only using 9 or 10 man rotations in games. Besides injuries. Thing Wiggins has over Parker right now is 3 point shooting percentage wise. Parker been cold from down town so far.

Yes we have had a couple injuries but for the most part we still have a ton of wings. Having more minutes per game and a higher usage% when in does show something actually when we are talking about opportunities. You keep complaining about 12 man rotations when in reality that hasn't stopped Parker from getting more time. You complain there are too many others shooting but Parker is getting two more shots per game than Wiggins is at this point, his opportunity is there. Most rookies don't come in dominating and becoming the focal point of a team immediately and both of these rookies are going through that. I just don't get why you tried to make excuses compared to Wiggins when in reality Parker is getting more time, higher usage, and more shots per game than him.

crewfan13
11-17-2014, 07:28 PM
are you annoyed with Knight?

deep down, where do you want to see Giannis and Parker? what positions do you think each guy should be in this league. not now or for the sake of this season, but in 2-3 years.

He's about the only one in the Bucks forum who's down on Knight. In reality, Knight is actually having a decent season. He shoots too often, but he's really the only player on the Bucks team, outside of Giannis the last 3 games who can create for himself and others right now.

As for Giannis and Parker, eventually they will both play more like postionless 3/4 down the road. Giannis has taken his turn guarding guys like Zach Randolph in the post, and also playing wings on the perimeter. I think ultimately, the two of them long term play together in the front court, presumably with a shot blocking big like Sanders, and Giannis checks the better offensive player. Some nights that will mean battling with the likes of Zach Randolph, other nights that might mean chasing around Durant. Kidd is a proponent of playing small, and both Giannis and Parker have shown signs of actually being decent post up scorers. Neither one is a bonafide stud in the post, but if they're playing 3 and 4, then that means one of them is being guarded by an opposing 3, which is a decent matchup for us in the post. I think that's eventually their role going forward.


Yes we have had a couple injuries but for the most part we still have a ton of wings. Having more minutes per game and a higher usage% when in does show something actually when we are talking about opportunities. You keep complaining about 12 man rotations when in reality that hasn't stopped Parker from getting more time. You complain there are too many others shooting but Parker is getting two more shots per game than Wiggins is at this point, his opportunity is there. Most rookies don't come in dominating and becoming the focal point of a team immediately and both of these rookies are going through that. I just don't get why you tried to make excuses compared to Wiggins when in reality Parker is getting more time, higher usage, and more shots per game than him.

I'm not going to argue that Parker is in a worse situation than Wiggins or anything like that. But as far as Parker goes in the Bucks' offense, its been a bit of a learning curve. And that's not for Parker, that's been for the whole team. There's been a ton of experimenting with lineups and guys playing together. Outside of Knight, our offense has absolutely no one who can create for others. Its a lot of isolations and things so far. And the usage that Parker has been getting feels sort of odd and forced at times. There will be times where we go to him in the post for a few possessions in a row, then completely forget about him for large stretches of time and relegate him to standing in the corner. Its not an excuse, and I'm sure Wiggins is going through the same types of things, but its been an adjustment period for the team. There's a ton of moving parts still, and I still think Kidd is figuring out who should play with who, and what the best lineups are (in both winning games and balancing getting the young, high upside guys minutes.)

The other thing that hasn't helped Parker yet is his shooting. He hasn't shot particularily well from the outside. He wasn't a great outside shooter in college either. But he's a hard worker and I don't really see anything in his form that indicates he can't be a good shooter. I think his NBA readiness was a bit overblown, but I still think he's a high upside guy, especially if he can really start to get his jumper falling and the pieces around him start to gel better.

mngopher35
11-17-2014, 08:21 PM
I'm not going to argue that Parker is in a worse situation than Wiggins or anything like that. But as far as Parker goes in the Bucks' offense, its been a bit of a learning curve. And that's not for Parker, that's been for the whole team. There's been a ton of experimenting with lineups and guys playing together. Outside of Knight, our offense has absolutely no one who can create for others. Its a lot of isolations and things so far. And the usage that Parker has been getting feels sort of odd and forced at times. There will be times where we go to him in the post for a few possessions in a row, then completely forget about him for large stretches of time and relegate him to standing in the corner. Its not an excuse, and I'm sure Wiggins is going through the same types of things, but its been an adjustment period for the team. There's a ton of moving parts still, and I still think Kidd is figuring out who should play with who, and what the best lineups are (in both winning games and balancing getting the young, high upside guys minutes.)

The other thing that hasn't helped Parker yet is his shooting. He hasn't shot particularily well from the outside. He wasn't a great outside shooter in college either. But he's a hard worker and I don't really see anything in his form that indicates he can't be a good shooter. I think his NBA readiness was a bit overblown, but I still think he's a high upside guy, especially if he can really start to get his jumper falling and the pieces around him start to gel better.

I actually think this post is pretty good, very little argument from me. Parker/Wiggins and many rookies will have transitions like this because it is normally a team in flux getting these high picks. Minnesota has it's fair share of issues too starting with rubio's injury and new faces. We also have a mix of vets on the team who all can score and deserve the ball (martin, Thad, Pek). My issue is that he made it sound as if Parker wasn't getting minutes or touches because of the rotation and players surrounding him etc. when basically all rookies are having similar issues. Just because Love left doesn't mean that there are automatically tons of touches for Wiggins in comparison, much more factors into it (see less mpg, shots per game, usage%).

That being said after watching Parker a couple of times I do understand what you mean. The situation hasn't been completely stable and everyone is still trying to figure things out (even coaches). Sometimes he will get chances and then just be "ignored" for no apparent reason. This type of stuff happens to many/most rookies though and I don't think it is hindering Parker compared to others. I also agree with you that Parker has a high upside still and will figure out his shot. He has the tools to be a very good offensive player one day.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-19-2014, 12:12 PM
are you annoyed with Knight?

deep down, where do you want to see Giannis and Parker? what positions do you think each guy should be in this league. not now or for the sake of this season, but in 2-3 years.


Knight kills the flow of the offense. He has tunnel vision and dribbles with his head down. Pounds the ball then passes very late on shot clock to a player then force to take a contested jumper or turn over. He's a very predictable player. You know if he doesn't have a open lane to slash to the hoop he will then pound the ball and pass. Or Knight shoots the ball to early on the shot clock when we have leads then misses and gets the other team back into the game.

Like we should of won the Hornets game. He shot the ball a few times way to early on shot clock. Or he turned it over. Its like a football game at end of game. If you got the lead you run out the clock. Not jack up shots with like 18 seconds left on the shot clock. He did that a few possessions in a row and costed us the game. He's a Jekyll and hyde player. Never know which one we will have. Don't get me wrong I don't mind Knight if we have him at sg. He just kills the flow on offense as a pg.

Knight was great versus Knicks last night first half. Then second half he unravelled and let the Knicks back into the game. Well some of that is all on Kidd giving less minutes to Giannis and Parker that game. When they were in we were stomping the Knicks. We could of won that game by 20 easily. Also didn't help Sanders didn't play.

JustinTime
11-20-2014, 02:19 PM
Jabari starting to run away with it now. Wiggins has looked awful lately.

Jabari Parker PER 13.31
Andrew Wiggins PER 9.12

Hawkeye15
11-20-2014, 02:28 PM
Jabari starting to run away with it now. Wiggins has looked awful lately.

Jabari Parker PER 13.31
Andrew Wiggins PER 9.12

can Jabari guard anyone? Because Wiggins is guarding the best wing player every night, and many times having decent success, and for sure showing he will be an elite defender at a minimum. The scoring, I am not so worried about yet. He needs to spend the offseason working on his ball handling badly, you can tell he wants to drive, but he gets stripped too often. Too many 20 foot step backs for far. But that will all improve.

2-ONE-5
11-20-2014, 02:53 PM
Jabari starting to run away with it now. Wiggins has looked awful lately.

Jabari Parker PER 13.31
Andrew Wiggins PER 9.12

its TEN games into the season no one is running away with anything. its very odd your doing this considering how big a Wiggins you are going back to your previous username

kobe4thewinbang
11-20-2014, 03:12 PM
23 by Parker...nice to see that. Triple OT is pretty ridiculous, though.

JustinTime
11-20-2014, 03:50 PM
can Jabari guard anyone? Because Wiggins is guarding the best wing player every night, and many times having decent success, and for sure showing he will be an elite defender at a minimum. The scoring, I am not so worried about yet. He needs to spend the offseason working on his ball handling badly, you can tell he wants to drive, but he gets stripped too often. Too many 20 foot step backs for far. But that will all improve.

Jabari's stats are obviously inflated because of the weak eastern conference but at least he looks like he wants to win each game. With Wiggins I don't even think he cares most nights, his team will be getting whooped and he will end the game with like 6 FGA. I can't believe how low Wiggins b-ball IQ is either he looks clueless out there most games which is really odd considering he has an NBA father who was pretty decent. You'd think he'd pick something up from his dad along the way but it looks like he completely ignored him. I'm not really a fan of either player but Wiggins really gets to me because has everything you need to be great but doesn't seem to care.

Hawkeye15
11-20-2014, 04:28 PM
Jabari's stats are obviously inflated because of the weak eastern conference but at least he looks like he wants to win each game. With Wiggins I don't even think he cares most nights, his team will be getting whooped and he will end the game with like 6 FGA. I can't believe how low Wiggins b-ball IQ is either he looks clueless out there most games which is really odd considering he has an NBA father who was pretty decent. You'd think he'd pick something up from his dad along the way but it looks like he completely ignored him. I'm not really a fan of either player but Wiggins really gets to me because has everything you need to be great but doesn't seem to care.

I mean, did you not know the big knock on Wiggins was he didn't play overly aggressive offensively before he came into the NBA? It's a work in progress dude. He is actually a bit farther along that I expected him to be at this point.

I have only watched Parker play once. Need to see more before I offer up anything of substance on him.

albertajaysfan
11-20-2014, 04:36 PM
He's about the only one in the Bucks forum who's down on Knight. In reality, Knight is actually having a decent season. He shoots too often, but he's really the only player on the Bucks team, outside of Giannis the last 3 games who can create for himself and others right now.

As for Giannis and Parker, eventually they will both play more like postionless 3/4 down the road. Giannis has taken his turn guarding guys like Zach Randolph in the post, and also playing wings on the perimeter. I think ultimately, the two of them long term play together in the front court, presumably with a shot blocking big like Sanders, and Giannis checks the better offensive player. Some nights that will mean battling with the likes of Zach Randolph, other nights that might mean chasing around Durant. Kidd is a proponent of playing small, and both Giannis and Parker have shown signs of actually being decent post up scorers. Neither one is a bonafide stud in the post, but if they're playing 3 and 4, then that means one of them is being guarded by an opposing 3, which is a decent matchup for us in the post. I think that's eventually their role going forward.



I'm not going to argue that Parker is in a worse situation than Wiggins or anything like that. But as far as Parker goes in the Bucks' offense, its been a bit of a learning curve. And that's not for Parker, that's been for the whole team. There's been a ton of experimenting with lineups and guys playing together. Outside of Knight, our offense has absolutely no one who can create for others. Its a lot of isolations and things so far. And the usage that Parker has been getting feels sort of odd and forced at times. There will be times where we go to him in the post for a few possessions in a row, then completely forget about him for large stretches of time and relegate him to standing in the corner. Its not an excuse, and I'm sure Wiggins is going through the same types of things, but its been an adjustment period for the team. There's a ton of moving parts still, and I still think Kidd is figuring out who should play with who, and what the best lineups are (in both winning games and balancing getting the young, high upside guys minutes.)

The other thing that hasn't helped Parker yet is his shooting. He hasn't shot particularily well from the outside. He wasn't a great outside shooter in college either. But he's a hard worker and I don't really see anything in his form that indicates he can't be a good shooter. I think his NBA readiness was a bit overblown, but I still think he's a high upside guy, especially if he can really start to get his jumper falling and the pieces around him start to gel better.

I think Bucks fans should be genuinely excited about the pieces you have to build around. I think if you guys can flip some of your deadweight for future assets you should try. The 3,4,5 look great going forward you guys just need some better guards.

I think you guys should target KJ McDaniels in the offseason, try and steal him away from Philly. He would slide in nicely at the 2 for you guys. You would have a crazy good defensive starting unit as well.

2-ONE-5
11-20-2014, 05:25 PM
no shot KJ leaves Philly. Hes an RFA and will be part of our future for a long time

JustinTime
11-20-2014, 08:26 PM
I mean, did you not know the big knock on Wiggins was he didn't play overly aggressive offensively before he came into the NBA? It's a work in progress dude. He is actually a bit farther along that I expected him to be at this point.

I have only watched Parker play once. Need to see more before I offer up anything of substance on him.

I know but in college he was on a stacked team so I figured he was just coasting because he knew he'd win either way. What's made him so disappointing is that his team desperately needs him to step up now and he's still playing like he doesn't care. If he can't find motivation in being embarrassed almost every night with blow out losses than I really question his potential to be great because I think any elite player is going to put up a fight in that scenario and he's not. The only other thing it could be is that he's not in shape to play full games which would explain the disappearing acts.

JustinTime
11-20-2014, 08:29 PM
He's about the only one in the Bucks forum who's down on Knight. In reality, Knight is actually having a decent season. He shoots too often, but he's really the only player on the Bucks team, outside of Giannis the last 3 games who can create for himself and others right now.

As for Giannis and Parker, eventually they will both play more like postionless 3/4 down the road. Giannis has taken his turn guarding guys like Zach Randolph in the post, and also playing wings on the perimeter. I think ultimately, the two of them long term play together in the front court, presumably with a shot blocking big like Sanders, and Giannis checks the better offensive player. Some nights that will mean battling with the likes of Zach Randolph, other nights that might mean chasing around Durant. Kidd is a proponent of playing small, and both Giannis and Parker have shown signs of actually being decent post up scorers. Neither one is a bonafide stud in the post, but if they're playing 3 and 4, then that means one of them is being guarded by an opposing 3, which is a decent matchup for us in the post. I think that's eventually their role going forward.



I'm not going to argue that Parker is in a worse situation than Wiggins or anything like that. But as far as Parker goes in the Bucks' offense, its been a bit of a learning curve. And that's not for Parker, that's been for the whole team. There's been a ton of experimenting with lineups and guys playing together. Outside of Knight, our offense has absolutely no one who can create for others. Its a lot of isolations and things so far. And the usage that Parker has been getting feels sort of odd and forced at times. There will be times where we go to him in the post for a few possessions in a row, then completely forget about him for large stretches of time and relegate him to standing in the corner. Its not an excuse, and I'm sure Wiggins is going through the same types of things, but its been an adjustment period for the team. There's a ton of moving parts still, and I still think Kidd is figuring out who should play with who, and what the best lineups are (in both winning games and balancing getting the young, high upside guys minutes.)

The other thing that hasn't helped Parker yet is his shooting. He hasn't shot particularily well from the outside. He wasn't a great outside shooter in college either. But he's a hard worker and I don't really see anything in his form that indicates he can't be a good shooter. I think his NBA readiness was a bit overblown, but I still think he's a high upside guy, especially if he can really start to get his jumper falling and the pieces around him start to gel better.

Parker has really struggled to create space at the NBA level which is why his shot isn't going down.

rocketfuel
11-25-2014, 10:58 PM
Wiggins had 29 points the other night.... he's doing well as a rookie.

Hawkeye15
11-26-2014, 10:32 AM
I know but in college he was on a stacked team so I figured he was just coasting because he knew he'd win either way. What's made him so disappointing is that his team desperately needs him to step up now and he's still playing like he doesn't care. If he can't find motivation in being embarrassed almost every night with blow out losses than I really question his potential to be great because I think any elite player is going to put up a fight in that scenario and he's not. The only other thing it could be is that he's not in shape to play full games which would explain the disappearing acts.

really? 16/4, and getting to the line 28 times in the last 5 games suggests he has started to get much more aggressive. LeBron and Durant didn't impact winning in their rookie year, why should expect Wiggins to? Especially when Rubio, Pek, Martin, and Thad have been out, and all but Thad (and whenever Pek is done nursing his vagina) are going to be out a while?

WSU Tony
11-26-2014, 11:17 AM
Some people take in information then develop an opinion. Justintime develops an opinion then looks for information to back it up. His "takes" on things are just horrible. I mean, there are subjects which are clearly a matter of opinion in which case everyone seemingly is right. Then there are Justin's takes which leave you scratching your head.

It was only months ago Justin was saying the Cavs should absolutely not trade Wiggins for Love. Wiggins was too valuable. Then, before Wiggins even plays a game Justin wants to argue that Bennett is the better prospect of the two.

My theory? Justin is upset the Wiggins went North from Cleveland to Minnesota and then didn't continue right up to Canada. Can you imagine how Justin would be on Wiggins' *** if he was playing in Canada? LOL.

2-ONE-5
11-26-2014, 11:45 AM
lol great post. dude was hardcore being pro-canada and wiggins all off-season and now has done a 180. He is on his 2nd username too he was a horrible, horrible canada/wiggins troll last season and was getting banned all the time.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-27-2014, 07:14 AM
no shot KJ leaves Philly. Hes an RFA and will be part of our future for a long time Yeah a few mentioned him already in our trade rumors thread in Bucks forums. With him taking only a one year deal is he UFA then?

2-ONE-5
11-27-2014, 10:00 AM
hes still an RFA. i imagine he will be looking for a deal similar to what the lotto picks get if he keeps this play up, maybe a little more but nothing insane that would force us to let him walk

Howard_Zinn
11-27-2014, 03:27 PM
Wiggins can shoot the three suprisingly well and has off-the-charts athleticism.. I like Jabari's game too.. This thread is laughable to me because we're not even a quarter of the way through the season and both are showing signs of improvement.. Both players at their age can realistically develop better skills in every area too.. I like both.

JustinTime
11-29-2014, 03:53 PM
Jabari Parker PER 14.18
Andrew Wiggins PER 9.64


Part of me is actually enjoying watching Wiggins fail because he simply doesn't deserve to succeed. 3 pts and 3 TOs in 30 min versus the Lakers is horrendous. Wiggins body language and attitude has been incredibly poor and he doesn't look like he cares at all when he's out there.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-30-2014, 08:48 AM
Parker with 19 points and 9 rebounds and 5 assists and 2 steals in the loss to the Rockets. We looked tired though. 4 games in 5 nights. Bucks played 18 games already. Most in the league.

WSU Tony
11-30-2014, 10:21 AM
Jabari Parker PER 14.18
Andrew Wiggins PER 9.64


Part of me is actually enjoying watching Wiggins fail because he simply doesn't deserve to succeed. 3 pts and 3 TOs in 30 min versus the Lakers is horrendous. Wiggins body language and attitude has been incredibly poor and he doesn't look like he cares at all when he's out there.

You've deemed wiggins undeserving of success. Deep, man. Deep.

JustinTime
11-30-2014, 02:10 PM
Parker with 19 points and 9 rebounds and 5 assists and 2 steals in the loss to the Rockets. We looked tired though. 4 games in 5 nights. Bucks played 18 games already. Most in the league.

I think those Kobe to Wiggins comparisons were pretty accurate because Wiggins chucks just as much. Wiggins has been horribly inefficient so far shooting a horrible .333 from the field in his last 5 and he shot 5-19 combined in his two games against awful teams like the Lakers and Knicks. Parker is getting better each game Wiggins is getting worse.

JustinTime
11-30-2014, 02:25 PM
You've deemed wiggins undeserving of success. Deep, man. Deep.

He doesn't want it you can tell. Name me one great athlete who is as lazy and uncaring as Wiggins.

2-ONE-5
11-30-2014, 07:49 PM
lol you are the worst. how do you go from the biggest wiggins homer to this?

JustinTime
11-30-2014, 11:48 PM
lol you are the worst. how do you go from the biggest wiggins homer to this?

What are you talking about I've never been huge on Wiggins. I wanted him to be good but I wasn't aware that he so was friggin lazy and had such poor body language when he played. I only saw him in a couple games in collage which he played well in, since he's gone pro I've got a chance to watch him more and he's been really disappointing.

2-ONE-5
12-01-2014, 09:46 AM
lol no you were incredibly annoying with it actually all offseason.

2-ONE-5
12-01-2014, 09:55 AM
1. 10-08-2014, 01:41 PM #108

JustinTime
After watching Wiggins in preseason I predict he will be ROY.
1. 10-08-2014, 06:07 PM #111

JustinTime

Originally Posted by 2-ONE-5
lol really after 1 preseason game? i mean i dont really expect much less from you anyway.
I was skeptical of him because he was much worse than the hype in college but I can tell he's the real deal. He was doing things on defense that 98% of the league couldn't do in his first game and the refs are already giving him superstar treatment on the fouls which means he's in for a great career.
1. 10-08-2014, 12:44 PM #90

JustinTime

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton
One preseason game is the barometer for a player? There's no doubt he is talented and is probably going to be a very good player, if not a perrenial all-star. If we keep Love for the next 3-4 years it will be worth it. If Love walks then obviously it was probably a mistake, unless they win a championship.
Why aren't you posting in the Vancouver forum? Oh that's right!
He's probably going to be better than Love as a rookie from what I saw. If you factor in his D which is ridiculously good I might actually be able to sell people on that
1. 10-07-2014, 09:05 PM #81

JustinTime
o
I know this is a Raptors thread but Wiggins looks like the real deal. Guy is going to be a monster, his d is ridiculous.

5ass
12-01-2014, 10:36 AM
Lol

WSU Tony
12-01-2014, 10:41 AM
hahaha.

He suggested in the Wolves section the other day that Anthony Bennett's assist to turnover ratio is the best on the team which means he should play point guard.

JustinTime
12-01-2014, 12:32 PM
hahaha.

He suggested in the Wolves section the other day that Anthony Bennett's assist to turnover ratio is the best on the team which means he should play point guard.

If you thought that was serious you're pretty f*cking stupid.

JustinTime
12-01-2014, 12:42 PM
1. 10-08-2014, 01:41 PM #108

JustinTime
After watching Wiggins in preseason I predict he will be ROY.
1. 10-08-2014, 06:07 PM #111

JustinTime

Originally Posted by 2-ONE-5
lol really after 1 preseason game? i mean i dont really expect much less from you anyway.
I was skeptical of him because he was much worse than the hype in college but I can tell he's the real deal. He was doing things on defense that 98% of the league couldn't do in his first game and the refs are already giving him superstar treatment on the fouls which means he's in for a great career.
1. 10-08-2014, 12:44 PM #90

JustinTime

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton
One preseason game is the barometer for a player? There's no doubt he is talented and is probably going to be a very good player, if not a perrenial all-star. If we keep Love for the next 3-4 years it will be worth it. If Love walks then obviously it was probably a mistake, unless they win a championship.
Why aren't you posting in the Vancouver forum? Oh that's right!
He's probably going to be better than Love as a rookie from what I saw. If you factor in his D which is ridiculously good I might actually be able to sell people on that
1. 10-07-2014, 09:05 PM #81

JustinTime
o
I know this is a Raptors thread but Wiggins looks like the real deal. Guy is going to be a monster, his d is ridiculous.

He does a have flashes where what I said were true but he also has many more flashes where he shows he's lazy as sh*.For instance he played great against James Harden on defense and offense on game and then he'll have like 5 games where he plays awful on both ends against scrubs. To be great you have to show up every game this guy does not do that which should be a major concern because I can't remember another player to become great with his lazy passive attitude. I don't even think aggression can be taught he'd pretty much have to change his entire personality which isn't going to happen.

2-ONE-5
12-01-2014, 01:03 PM
i didnt ask for excsues, just wanted to point out that you are full of ****.

Chronz
12-01-2014, 01:11 PM
If you remove the first 6 games of the year, Jabari has been very efficient and his team has seen their winning% increase as well. Could be a sign that hes getting acclimated.

I've only seen Wiggins vs a few teams but hes been mostly bad.

JustinTime
12-01-2014, 03:10 PM
i didnt ask for excsues, just wanted to point out that you are full of ****.

Opinions change when you have a bigger sample size. I would still believe those things I said if he showed some signs that he actually cares and wants to be in the league which he doesn't. Jabari doesn't have any of the athleticism or potential that Wiggins has but he'll probably end up better simply because he wants it more. Wiggins strikes me as a guy whose in it only for the money and will probably get a couple of contracts and retire.

Trwood12
12-01-2014, 03:14 PM
Jabari Parker PER 14.18
Andrew Wiggins PER 9.64


Part of me is actually enjoying watching Wiggins fail because he simply doesn't deserve to succeed. 3 pts and 3 TOs in 30 min versus the Lakers is horrendous. Wiggins body language and attitude has been incredibly poor and he doesn't look like he cares at all when he's out there.
Dude, he was really sick that game. Calm down. There is no reason why anyone should think that Wiggins won't be a great player. No need to wish failure on him..

MonroeFAN
12-01-2014, 03:15 PM
^Not opinions in which people respect and care about.

JustinTime
12-01-2014, 03:17 PM
If you remove the first 6 games of the year, Jabari has been very efficient and his team has seen their winning% increase as well. Could be a sign that hes getting acclimated.

I've only seen Wiggins vs a few teams but hes been mostly bad.

Yea I don't see anyone challenging Jabari for ROY at this point unless he start to play like he did at the beginning. I'm pretty sure that if the bust Anthony Bennett got 29 minutes last year even with all his health problems he would be putting up way better numbers than Wiggins is right now.

JustinTime
12-01-2014, 03:21 PM
Dude, he was really sick that game. Calm down. There is no reason why anyone should think that Wiggins won't be a great player. No need to wish failure on him..

It's just his attitude I really doesn't give you any confidence in him becoming great. I hope I eat this words one day but i'm not impressed with how he looks out there right now especially after talking about how he wanted the ROY and how he wanted to be on the all-defensive team.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-03-2014, 10:05 AM
Parker 1st in PPG 12.4 Wiggins PPG 11.8
Parker 2nd in FG% 47.3% Wiggins FG%39.9%
Parker 2nd in Rebounds/game 6.5 Wiggins Rebounds/game 3.6
Parker 6th in Assists/game 1.7 Wiggins Assists/game 1.1
Parker 2nd in Steals/game 1.37 Wiggins Steals/game 1.13

Wiggins still better defender and 3 point shooter though but Parker starting to run away with ROY in the bag. Also 20 point games are starting to happen more frequently with Parker and Giannis. Kidd gave them tough love early on showing them the right way. Now were winning.


Rookie Dunks:
Jabari: 29
Noel: 15
McDaniels: 12
Gordon: 9 (11 games)
Wiggins: 7
Exum,Ennis: 6

xxplayerxx23
12-03-2014, 01:09 PM
Parker has been playing well of late. Wiggins has shown flashes but is raw offensively. Give him time I think he will be really good

JustinTime
12-03-2014, 03:01 PM
Wiggins major problem is that he's lazy not that he's raw. He doesn't even try most games, really disappointed with him.

ink
12-03-2014, 04:40 PM
Wiggins major problem is that he's lazy not that he's raw. He doesn't even try most games, really disappointed with him.

We must be watching different games.

ink
12-03-2014, 04:40 PM
Parker has been playing well of late. Wiggins has shown flashes but is raw offensively. Give him time I think he will be really good

I agree. He still has a ton to learn and he hasn't physically matured yet.

Chronz
12-03-2014, 05:42 PM
Wiggins major problem is that he's lazy not that he's raw. He doesn't even try most games, really disappointed with him.

He really lacks aggression, its like hes relying solely on athleticism to get his shots. Hes not very skilled yet but he compounds that by not just putting his head down and attacking the rack. There were driving lanes against the Clips that other athletes would just bullrush, he doesn't have that down yet. Its a tricky balance between having a predetermined move and the creativity to counter but hes not even close on that one.

Hawkeye15
12-03-2014, 06:42 PM
He really lacks aggression, its like hes relying solely on athleticism to get his shots. Hes not very skilled yet but he compounds that by not just putting his head down and attacking the rack. There were driving lanes against the Clips that other athletes would just bullrush, he doesn't have that down yet. Its a tricky balance between having a predetermined move and the creativity to counter but hes not even close on that one.

he can't handle the rock very well yet. And as I said in the GT, he was sick during the Blazers/Clips game (he almost threw up on Wes Matthews the previous night after a layup)

He has some glaring holes, but from what I have seen so far, he looks like he will be a good two way player.

Can you remember one of the uber elite athletes (Lebron/Rose/Westy, etc), who combined that with pretty nice three point shooting so young? He has some skill level, but his lack of ball handling is the death of a wing, it must improve.

mngopher35
12-03-2014, 07:56 PM
I agree with Hawk about his lack of ball handling being a big hindrance (also contributes to "lack of aggression"), which was expected. Chronz there have been other games this year where he would attack those lanes but he can't do anything but go one speed down the lane so it doesn't always end pretty. I think improving this area will be the biggest thing moving forward.

Right now he relies a ton on his shooting ability and step back jumper to get shots off which is frustrating, but is nice to see he has that ability. Something they really need to work on with him is timing and spacing his cuts to the basket. Someone showed the number of dunks rookies have and Wiggins is pretty low when he has the athletic ability to be very high on this list with a better basketball I.Q. off the ball. I think there have been more glimpses of this lately but it is an area I would love to see him improve on this year (he could actually learn something from brewer here). He does show aggression on defense though and it looks like he has the ability to be as advertised on that end once he learns how to control it more instead of just going for everything.

Overall I think Jabari is definitely ahead of him at this point and leader for rookie of the year which I think he will get. I still think I would rather have Wiggins moving forward, but I'm sure bucks fans feel the same about Parker.

Chronz
12-03-2014, 08:11 PM
he can't handle the rock very well yet. And as I said in the GT, he was sick during the Blazers/Clips game (he almost threw up on Wes Matthews the previous night after a layup)
I can only go by what I've seen tho. And yeah his handles are god awful but Im talking about situations where a straight line dribble would have sufficed if he simply didn't allow the defense to catch up. Instead of taking a step back jumper he should have been at the line (or he would have been called for a charge, I dunno but I would like to see that aggression )


He has some glaring holes, but from what I have seen so far, he looks like he will be a good two way player.
We'll see, I did like him taking the challenge of defending CP3 the other night but CP3 wasn't that influenced by his length the way guys like Klay and Q-Pon bother him. Did you see that cross over that Wiggins was totally not ready for?


Can you remember one of the uber elite athletes (Lebron/Rose/Westy, etc), who combined that with pretty nice three point shooting so young? He has some skill level, but his lack of ball handling is the death of a wing, it must improve.

Yeah, Gerald Green. Only I think Gerald was cursed with only having 4 fingers. I feel like Wiggins is a cross between Green and Deng. Im sure he has a higher ceiling because of that but man, his handles are beyond bad. Dude literally forgot to take the ball with him on an outlet drive to the rim. If his handles even become mediocre, he should be set. Right now tho, hes nothing more than a taller Luther Head to me.

Wish I had him on the Clips tho.

Chronz
12-03-2014, 08:18 PM
I agree with Hawk about his lack of ball handling being a big hindrance (also contributes to "lack of aggression"), which was expected. Chronz there have been other games this year where he would attack those lanes but he can't do anything but go one speed down the lane so it doesn't always end pretty. I think improving this area will be the biggest thing moving forward.
No doubt, but I would rather see him barrel into the defender and get a dead ball turnover than than see him take the lazy route of a step back shot. He can literally get that shot any time he wants. I might be making too much out of a handful of games I've seen, I usually pay more attention to #1 draft picks but I just dont have the time right now.


Right now he relies a ton on his shooting ability and step back jumper to get shots off which is frustrating, but is nice to see he has that ability. Something they really need to work on with him is timing and spacing his cuts to the basket. Someone showed the number of dunks rookies have and Wiggins is pretty low when he has the athletic ability to be very high on this list with a better basketball I.Q. off the ball. I think there have been more glimpses of this lately but it is an area I would love to see him improve on this year (he could actually learn something from brewer here). He does show aggression on defense though and it looks like he has the ability to be as advertised on that end once he learns how to control it more instead of just going for everything.

Overall I think Jabari is definitely ahead of him at this point and leader for rookie of the year which I think he will get. I still think I would rather have Wiggins moving forward, but I'm sure bucks fans feel the same about Parker.
I want the kid to become the next T-Mac, so we're on the same team here.

Hawkeye15
12-03-2014, 08:25 PM
I can only go by what I've seen tho. And yeah his handles are god awful but Im talking about situations where a straight line dribble would have sufficed if he simply didn't allow the defense to catch up. Instead of taking a step back jumper he should have been at the line (or he would have been called for a charge, I dunno but I would like to see that aggression )


We'll see, I did like him taking the challenge of defending CP3 the other night but CP3 wasn't that influenced by his length the way guys like Klay and Q-Pon bother him. Did you see that cross over that Wiggins was totally not ready for?


Yeah, Gerald Green. Only I think Gerald was cursed with only having 4 fingers. I feel like Wiggins is a cross between Green and Deng. Im sure he has a higher ceiling because of that but man, his handles are beyond bad. Dude literally forgot to take the ball with him on an outlet drive to the rim. If his handles even become mediocre, he should be set. Right now tho, hes nothing more than a taller Luther Head to me.

Wish I had him on the Clips tho.

I didn't watch the Clips game, but yes, that was even his criticism coming out, he lacks aggression. It wasn't just because he was sick, he flat out doesn't trust attacking the rim unless its baseline, where he can shield his dribble.

His biggest point of emphasis this offseason must be ball handling. His shot looks great, he will be an excellent shooter. I also worry about him helping on the glass, he simply doesn't.

He has a floor as an excellent defender, who is average on offense to me. His ceiling is much higher than Deng's level, but he has a ways to go to get there. Still, I like what I have seen from him so far this year.

mngopher35
12-03-2014, 08:37 PM
No doubt, but I would rather see him barrel into the defender and get a dead ball turnover than than see him take the lazy route of a step back shot. He can literally get that shot any time he wants. I might be making too much out of a handful of games I've seen, I usually pay more attention to #1 draft picks but I just dont have the time right now.

I definitely agree with you here, I do wish he would just go for it anyways. It would help him learn how to react in those situations moving forward, practice makes perfect. I am just saying that he has done it a bit at times and it hasn't worked out which likely leads to him being hesitant (maybe even coaches warning him not to but I hope not).



I want the kid to become the next T-Mac, so we're on the same team here.

Man I sure hope so haha. I don't think he will get to that point of ball handling/passing but I would be very very happy if he can get close.

Hawkeye15
12-03-2014, 08:43 PM
If Wiggins becomes T-Mac, I will walk around with a boner for his entire peak

Hawkeye15
12-03-2014, 08:44 PM
I guess that would be my peak too

Lakers + Giants
12-03-2014, 11:59 PM
:laugh2:

Wow, last person i expected that from haha.

JustinTime
12-04-2014, 02:22 AM
We must be watching different games.

You never seen him stand in the corner for an entire quarter on offense and basically not move because that's what he does a lot.

JustinTime
12-04-2014, 02:26 AM
I have to admit though Wiggins would not look nearly as bad as he does if he was on the Bucks. Bucks are a much better team, Twolves are just painful to watch.

Hawkeye15
12-04-2014, 10:26 AM
I have to admit though Wiggins would not look nearly as bad as he does if he was on the Bucks. Bucks are a much better team, Twolves are just painful to watch.

when your 3 best players go down with long term injuries, that tends to happen to an already below average, developing team....

JustinTime
12-11-2014, 01:08 AM
Finally! Andrew Wiggins has his first great game in the NBA. It was the first game where he played aggressively through 4Q's on both ends and looked like he actually wanted to win instead of his usual zombie mode. 23 pts on 9/16Fg's, 10rebs, 2STL, and 4 assists to go along with some great defense. He's still got a ways to go in terms of consistency to catch Parker, who has been hot lately, but this was the first game where he actually impressed me.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-11-2014, 01:50 AM
Wiggins is Andre Iguodala worst case. He's just THAT good.

JustinTime
12-11-2014, 11:35 AM
Wiggins is Andre Iguodala worst case. He's just THAT good.

He's got to continue taking smart shots like he did last night because he's been prone to some awful shooting nights this season do to poor shot selection or just missing shots he should make. Thing I liked the most about his game yesterday was that he actually showed some heart yesterday because his body language is usually very poor which can be extremely frustrating to watch.

mike_noodles
01-07-2015, 11:26 AM
Wiggins averaging 21 PPG on .500% shooting in his last 7 games. Assists and rebounds are on the rise as well. Looking really good lately.

Hawkeye15
01-07-2015, 12:01 PM
He's got to continue taking smart shots like he did last night because he's been prone to some awful shooting nights this season do to poor shot selection or just missing shots he should make. Thing I liked the most about his game yesterday was that he actually showed some heart yesterday because his body language is usually very poor which can be extremely frustrating to watch.

I believe I have covered his shot selection 100 times. Wiggins can't dribble the basketball. Therefore, he settles for jumpers.

Why has he been a lot better? Because Flip is dumping him in the post for his catches, nullifying his need to put the ball on the deck.

This offseason will need to be spent learning how to handle the ball. I will say, for his age/athleticism, his jumper looks awesome. Wiggins is going to be a dead eye once his dribble drive is respected.

JustinTime
01-07-2015, 01:56 PM
I believe I have covered his shot selection 100 times. Wiggins can't dribble the basketball. Therefore, he settles for jumpers.

Why has he been a lot better? Because Flip is dumping him in the post for his catches, nullifying his need to put the ball on the deck.

This offseason will need to be spent learning how to handle the ball. I will say, for his age/athleticism, his jumper looks awesome. Wiggins is going to be a dead eye once his dribble drive is respected.

That comment is a month old and was relevant back when I said it. I agree that putting him in the post has improved his game a lot. I watched him a couple times in college and Self could never figure this out. But, his shooting in general has also improved as of late as well.

I definitely see him winning ROY if this continues even if Jabari was healthy just because he's a more complete player. My knock on Wiggins early on was the lack of effort and poor shooting percentages. Now he's shooting very well and putting up 20 + a night. I still think he's got another notch too because even in nights where he puts up 20 he does it so quietly. He scored the way Kobe does, where you say to yourself "Wiggins hasn't done ****" and then you look at his stat sheet and it's 22 pts or whatever. I think he could be an NBA scoring leader down the road if he learns how to dribble and improves his passing game.

Hawkeye15
01-07-2015, 02:06 PM
That comment is a month old and was relevant back when I said it. I agree that putting him in the post has improved his game a lot. I watched him a couple times in college and Self could never figure this out. But, his shooting in general has also improved as of late as well.

I definitely see him winning ROY if this continues even if Jabari was healthy just because he's a more complete player. My knock on Wiggins early on was the lack of effort and poor shooting percentages. Now he's shooting very well and putting up 20 + a night. I still think he's got another notch to because even in nights where he puts up 20 he does it so quietly. He scored the way Kobe does, where you say to yourself "Wiggins hasn't done ****" and then you look at his stat sheet and it's 22 pts or whatever. I think he could be an NBA scoring leader down the road if he learns how to dribble and improves his passing game.

my statement would hold true regardless. Dude can't dribble yet, so he was put closer to the rim.

Yes, he will improve a ton if he can just get those handles under control, we both agree on that. It will open up a whole ton of **** if opponents have to respect his dribble drive.

JustinTime
01-07-2015, 02:16 PM
my statement would hold true regardless. Dude can't dribble yet, so he was put closer to the rim.

Yes, he will improve a ton if he can just get those handles under control, we both agree on that. It will open up a whole ton of **** if opponents have to respect his dribble drive.

It would also help if he had some teammates that were worth guarding.

JustinTime
01-07-2015, 02:33 PM
Wiggins averaging 21 PPG on .500% shooting in his last 7 games. Assists and rebounds are on the rise as well. Looking really good lately.

It's a shame the Raps didn't tank last year he would be perfect there by the time they get him Toronto's core will be out of their prime.

cahawk
01-08-2015, 03:06 AM
As a 6'8" shooting guard he is a mismatch for teams but of course he is not going to dribble like a 6'0" guard but he penetrates & finishes well. While guarding the opposing teams best player not a center.

Tonight against Phoenix Wiggins was the leading scorer in the game with 25pts on 10/16.
His 8th straight game with 20+pts & shooting more than 50%, that is awesome for a rookie.
Wiggins has a very high upside, Cavs will regret letting him go rather than others.

SilverFalco8
01-08-2015, 03:09 AM
Hasn't Parker been hurt a lot this season?

JustinTime
01-08-2015, 03:13 AM
As a 6'8" shooting guard he is a mismatch for teams but of course he is not going to dribble like a 6'0" guard but he penetrates & finishes well. While guarding the opposing teams best player not a center.

Tonight against Phoenix Wiggins was the leading scorer in the game with 25pts on 10/16.
His 8th straight game with 20+pts & shooting more than 50%, that is awesome for a rookie.
Wiggins has a very high upside, Cavs will regret letting him go rather than others.

Yea and he plays great d on top of that. Everything about him says superstar T-wolves completely robbed the Cavs. I think he would have had a good shot at making the all star game as a rookie if his season started 8 games ago.