PDA

View Full Version : Is it time to trade the Mamba?



KingstonHawke
10-29-2014, 04:48 PM
As a loyal Kobe fan since 96 who has argued Kobe being better than Jordan on numerous occasions it truly hurts to type this... but trading Kobe to the Knicks just makes too much sense for all parties involved.

The Lakers had a slim chance of making the playoffs this year. Kobe would've had to not just stay healthy but come close to winning the scoring title. Julius Randle would've had to win rookie of the year. Mix in a little Linsanity... but then Randle broke his leg one game into the season.

Now what we're looking at is a Lakers team that may be just good enough to lose their top 5 protected first round selection in the draft to the Suns. The only assets they have are expiring contracts galore, an aged injury prone Kobe, and the Rockets first for next year (thank the flying spaghetti monster Bosh's wife is a sloot that didn't want to leave SoBe).

It's time to let Kobe go.

And the Knicks just happen to be the perfect destination. Kobe's best friend in the league is the head coach, his former championship winning coach is the president, and Carmelo is that second superstar every championship team needs, and owe yeah... it's New York City and an owner willing to spend his way to wins!

The trade I think makes the most sense for BOTH sides is Kobe Bryant for Amare Stoudemire, Larkin, Hardaway, and Early.

With Lin and Stoudmire reunited (and Swaggy P back in the starting lineup) the Lakers could be the most fun worse team in history. And then next year they could shed $50 million and pair Randle with Okafor (wishful thinking).

On the other hand, this trade would make the Knicks actual contenders for the first time in... a very long time!

PG - Calderon/Priglioni
SG - Bryant/Shumpart
SF - Anthony/Acy
PF - Bargnani/Moultrie
C - Dalembert/Smith

Looks a lot like one of the old championship Bulls teams from back in the day. Maybe Kobe could end up with those two rings David Stern stole from him (Paul, Bryant, and Howard is a bigger three than the Heat's and I live in Miami, so no locational bias).

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. Makes too much sense to hold it in. Makes so much sense that it most likely wont happen.

InternetSheriff
10-29-2014, 04:53 PM
Who in the hell is going to want a past his prime, old, injury prone Kobe? Dude is making like 24 mil per, still chucks up bricks like he's In his prime, where he was still only a 45% guy. No one in their right mind would trade for him.

MrfadeawayJB
10-29-2014, 04:54 PM
:laugh: it's not the offseason, no need for lame threads

FlashBolt
10-29-2014, 05:02 PM
Why would the Lakers trade someone who continues making them a boatload of money? You have to understand, with Kobe, it's a special type of player. He's underpaid in terms of the economical input Lakers can receive from him. The day Kobe retires, Lakers will plummet in value. Should they trade him if they want to win? No.. and that's because he's still capable enough to be a 20/5/5 player.

nycericanguy
10-29-2014, 05:02 PM
I bought this up a month ago or so... and FWIW I predicted a few Knick trades before they happened. (Bargs for Novak & Camby) and Tyson, Felton for Claderon, Dally & Larkin

It's unlikely, but if LA went in that direction, Knicks are the obvious landing spot. Phil, Fisher, the triangle, and of course his good friend Melo.

Amare + THJR + Early I think would be fair for both teams, especially if NY takes back Nash.

nycericanguy
10-29-2014, 05:04 PM
Why would the Lakers trade someone who continues making them a boatload of money? You have to understand, with Kobe, it's a special type of player. He's underpaid in terms of the economical input Lakers can receive from him. The day Kobe retires, Lakers will plummet in value. Should they trade him if they want to win? No.. and that's because he's still capable enough to be a 20/5/5 player.

ppl keep saying this but no one backs it up... Lakers havent been good in a while, is Kobe really generating that much money for them?

and at the end of the day, if Kobe doesn't want to finish his career like this, I think he's done enough for LA that they would respect that and accommodate him.

PhillyFaninLA
10-29-2014, 05:26 PM
Let me trade for a bad teammate, an attitude problem, an arrogant SOB, a guy that was injured the past 2 seasons....sounds reasonable.

Kobe has no value outside of LA

thejordanrules
10-29-2014, 05:30 PM
I would trade for Jackson perkins and lamb the thunder!
thunder get kobe

numba1CHANGsta
10-29-2014, 05:33 PM
trade old Kobe for afro Kobe

Jenceman
10-29-2014, 05:34 PM
Sure if he brings in a nice rebuilding package.

Tony_Starks
10-29-2014, 05:39 PM
Kobe isn't the problem. With all these injuries they'll have to give him some more weapons....

Verbal Christ
10-29-2014, 05:42 PM
Duh, a trade to Houston is imminent.

numba1CHANGsta
10-29-2014, 05:45 PM
Duh, a trade to Houston is imminent.

Kobe for Harden

blue bleeder09
10-29-2014, 05:49 PM
Close this thread

Bruno
10-29-2014, 05:55 PM
...ive always said- If I have to see Kobe in another jersey the Knick uniform is the only thing that I'd accept.

but, kobe retires a Laker, 99%.

Bruno
10-29-2014, 05:56 PM
Let me trade for a bad teammate, an attitude problem, an arrogant SOB, a guy that was injured the past 2 seasons....sounds reasonable.

Kobe has no value outside of LA

define value.

c.c.
10-29-2014, 06:07 PM
We need help off the bench, I can see the Rockets sending a 2nd round pick or two for him. Salary too high though

c.c.
10-29-2014, 06:08 PM
Kobe for Harden

:no:

KingstonHawke
10-29-2014, 07:08 PM
Who in the hell is going to want a past his prime, old, injury prone Kobe? Dude is making like 24 mil per, still chucks up bricks like he's In his prime, where he was still only a 45% guy. No one in their right mind would trade for him.

So... you're saying that if you were the Knicks you wouldn't give up Hardaway Jr, Early, Larkin and Stoudmire for someone who two years ago averaged 27 pts a night? I would actually say that's a steal of a deal for the Knicks. And only makes sense due to the situation the Lakers are in with their draft pick.


Why would the Lakers trade someone who continues making them a boatload of money? You have to understand, with Kobe, it's a special type of player. He's underpaid in terms of the economical input Lakers can receive from him. The day Kobe retires, Lakers will plummet in value. Should they trade him if they want to win? No.. and that's because he's still capable enough to be a 20/5/5 player.

Over the next 15 years I guarantee Okafor (who they'd have a 25% chance at) brings his team more money than Kobe will over that same time frame. And after two years, Kobe could return if he wanted to and finish out his career in LA. His presence in LA now just makes no sense though. They've wasted 2 years of his. And his contract would actually hamper them bringing in the FAs he'd need to compete.


I bought this up a month ago or so... and FWIW I predicted a few Knick trades before they happened. (Bargs for Novak & Camby) and Tyson, Felton for Claderon, Dally & Larkin

It's unlikely, but if LA went in that direction, Knicks are the obvious landing spot. Phil, Fisher, the triangle, and of course his good friend Melo.

Amare + THJR + Early I think would be fair for both teams, especially if NY takes back Nash.

I wish with you 100% until you said take back Nash. Nash is done for the season with his nerve issue. He's turning into a disabled exception most likely.

DarkKnight
10-29-2014, 07:33 PM
define value.

You won't get an answer . I as a Knick fan would take all of his baggage, oh and the it factor too

Jeffy25
10-29-2014, 07:42 PM
Knicks wouldn't do this, for one

Kobe Bryant for Amare Stoudemire, Larkin, Hardaway, and Early.

And Kobe makes the Lakers a ton of money.

Just tank these last few years, and let Kobe age on the roster and make a ton of cash.

Maybe he can play three years, and by the third year, they will have developed a good roster by then so he can go out in a competitive year.

P&GRealist
10-29-2014, 08:18 PM
Just play these 2 yrs out and go out like Magic, Kareem, Worthy, West, and Wilt in a Laker uniform. Don't be another Shaq, who disrespectfully retired in the most anti-Laker way possible.

Durant is coming to LA in 2016 anyways.

KingstonHawke
10-29-2014, 08:36 PM
Knicks wouldn't do this, for one

Kobe Bryant for Amare Stoudemire, Larkin, Hardaway, and Early.

And Kobe makes the Lakers a ton of money.

Just tank these last few years, and let Kobe age on the roster and make a ton of cash.

Maybe he can play three years, and by the third year, they will have developed a good roster by then so he can go out in a competitive year.

No offense, but I hate these post the most. How can you make declarations and not even attempt to back them up with any sort of rationale?

How exactly would this be a bad trade for the Knicks?

How would Kobe make the Lakers more money than having a top 5 selection in next years draft and a TON of cap space?

Kobe isn't going to tank the last few years of his career. And he's not going to take kindly to management trying to tank around him. Not only are you suggesting they lose a lot of value (whatever the trade would haul, and the top 5 protected pick they'd most likely keep).

Kobe doesn't want to just compete for the playoffs, he wants to compete for the championship. You're going to have a hard time building that kind of roster with Kobe's salary on the books. Add someone like Greg Monroe, and mid level point guard and you're at the cap just like that. Never mind the milage Kobe would have placed on his body two years from now.

Your whole comment just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Jeffy25
10-29-2014, 08:49 PM
No offense, but I hate these post the most. How can you make declarations and not even attempt to back them up with any sort of rationale?

How exactly would this be a bad trade for the Knicks?
What good does adding Kobe to their books the next two years do them?

They had Amare this year, but they have him fall off their books after this year. I don't see why they want to add another year of having an aging, unproductive player to their roster. And then you ask them to give up three more players, one of which (Early) is an awesome young player, perfect for Jackson's Triangle. Hardaway is a good young point guard, and Larkin is a good young triangle based player.

Jackson isn't going to want to get rid of these three young guys. And while Amare is clearly overpaid, he is basically all they have for a big right now.

It doesn't make sense for the Knicks to get rid of these guys for an overpaid player who wants to shoot the ball over 20 times a night that they have to overpay for two years.


It makes sense for the Lakers, they want three, good young players, and to get rid of a bad contract sooner. It doesn't make sense for the Knicks because it's an overpayment for a selfish, overpaid player, who won't fit into the current scheme with Melo.



How would Kobe make the Lakers more money than having a top 5 selection in next years draft and a TON of cap space?
Kobe makes the Lakers money from simple attendance and merchandise (Bryant is third in jersey sales).

A top 5 selection would be the best situation for them. But they aren't going to compete, and a rebuild would be ideal for the Lakers. But Kobe is still a money-maker for them.



Kobe isn't going to tank the last few years of his career. And he's not going to take kindly to management trying to tank around him. Not only are you suggesting they lose a lot of value (whatever the trade would haul, and the top 5 protected pick they'd most likely keep).
Well he doesn't really have a choice, does he?

He can get as pissy as he wants, but he signed a new two year deal with the Lakers, and chose to eat up half of their cap space with that deal. He put them in this situation. If he wanted a competitive team, then he would have signed a 2 year deal worth 16-20 million and let the team have money to bring in someone to help him and Randle and Lin.

Kobe isn't worth very much in a trade. Other teams don't see him as an asset because of his salary and need to over shoot as an aging player.

He is worth more to the Lakers than he is to any other franchise.

KingstonHawke
10-29-2014, 09:29 PM
What good does adding Kobe to their books the next two years do them?

They had Amare this year, but they have him fall off their books after this year. I don't see why they want to add another year of having an aging, unproductive player to their roster. And then you ask them to give up three more players, one of which (Early) is an awesome young player, perfect for Jackson's Triangle. Hardaway is a good young point guard, and Larkin is a good young triangle based player.

Jackson isn't going to want to get rid of these three young guys. And while Amare is clearly overpaid, he is basically all they have for a big right now.

It doesn't make sense for the Knicks to get rid of these guys for an overpaid player who wants to shoot the ball over 20 times a night that they have to overpay for two years.


It makes sense for the Lakers, they want three, good young players, and to get rid of a bad contract sooner. It doesn't make sense for the Knicks because it's an overpayment for a selfish, overpaid player, who won't fit into the current scheme with Melo.



Kobe makes the Lakers money from simple attendance and merchandise (Bryant is third in jersey sales).

A top 5 selection would be the best situation for them. But they aren't going to compete, and a rebuild would be ideal for the Lakers. But Kobe is still a money-maker for them.



Well he doesn't really have a choice, does he?

He can get as pissy as he wants, but he signed a new two year deal with the Lakers, and chose to eat up half of their cap space with that deal. He put them in this situation. If he wanted a competitive team, then he would have signed a 2 year deal worth 16-20 million and let the team have money to bring in someone to help him and Randle and Lin.

Kobe isn't worth very much in a trade. Other teams don't see him as an asset because of his salary and need to over shoot as an aging player.

He is worth more to the Lakers than he is to any other franchise.

So, to summarize, you hate Kobe's personality. And because of that the Knicks are better off without his possible 25 ppg, championship pedigree, extreme familiarity with the triangle and the coach/president, the money they would make from attendance/merchandise/exposure, etc.

I really don't understand people like you. You basically said that super injury-prone Amare, $23mil one year sooner, and a 2nd round prospect is worth more than a guy who will easily give you at least 25 ppg. You don't really think that. You just hate Kobe. Maybe that was your wife in Denver or something.

PS. That whole players not taking as much money as they can is the dumbest thing ever. How about you take less money at your job in exchange for casual fridays.

ldawg
10-29-2014, 09:36 PM
After seeing preseason and last nights game I to posted that in a Laker forum. I think its time for these two to part ways. Its best for the Lakers to go in full blast rebuild. Its hurt my eyes seeing kobe on a team this bad. He is wasting the last few years in the Nba and his legacy is taken hits. When he is winning the talk of goat comes up when hes loosing over rated chucker comes up. Lakers need to turn a new page and so does Kobe. Its just time its not pretty. Nash and Pau got the picture. Nash realized its not worth it to hurt his back for nothing We all know Nash would be playing like he always did if they had a shot at a championship and Pau was tired of taking blame for Lakers failures.

bleedprple&gold
10-29-2014, 09:37 PM
Why are people acting like NOW is the time to trade Kobe? We've known for months this team wasn't going to compete for ****, and now one blowout loss and an injury to a raw rookie that may or may not have helped much this season, and all of a sudden its time to bottom out? If they wanted to trade Kobe they should have been fielding offers all summer, or better yet they shouldn't have signed him to that extension. Nothing has changed...

Jeffy25
10-29-2014, 09:45 PM
So, to summarize, you hate Kobe's personality.
I type a 378 word response, and one word used 'selfish' you find enough issue with to disregard the entire post and believe you have 'summarized' it?

No. I don't have any problem with Kobe's personality. It's suited him fine over his career. But his proclivity to chucking and his demanding ways to winning would be more of a disruption in a team set offense like in New York.



And because of that the Knicks are better off without his possible 25 ppg, championship pedigree, extreme familiarity with the triangle and the coach/president, the money they would make from attendance/merchandise/exposure, etc.
They don't need another guy needing to take 20 shots per game from the guard position when they already have Melo's 20 at SF, Lin's 10-15 at PG, and nobody that can shoot under the basket outside of Amare, whom you just took from them.

They'll get more than 25 PPG from the 4 guys you just requested from New York. If Amare is allowed to take 20 shots per game and is healthy all year, he'll score 25 ppg, just like he did the last time he took that many.

Issue is, nobody but Melo is going to be taking that many shots on this New York squad. Adding Kobe to it doesn't make sense to the roster. And he'll be unhappy with the lack of touches he will get in this scheme.


I really don't understand people like you. You basically said that super injury-prone Amare, $23 mil they really can't use, and a 2nd round prospect is worth more than a guy who will easily give you at least 25 ppg. You don't really think that. You just hate Kobe. Maybe that was your wife in Denver or something.
Then you aren't bothering to read my post if you don't understand. I've explained this very well, multiple times.

You are asking for New York to get rid of players that fit the current scheme that they are starting for a guy that won't fit in as well. Three guys who are young players who fit it well and are under contract, and the other one, the more valuable player, who is close to free agency, and the Knicks will be happy to lose his contract after this year, rather than adding another player who makes the same bloated salary for an additional year.


PS. That whole players not taking as much money as they can is the dumbest thing ever. How about you take less money at your job in exchange for casual fridays.
I don't understand why you are asking me this question, I think salary caps are *** ****ing stupid in the first place.


Let me ask you this. Why do you think this is a good deal for the Knicks for the next two years?

Let's lay out who is getting how many shots, and how the offense and defense would be set up with Kobe, instead of Larkin, Early, Amare, and THJR

Jeffy25
10-29-2014, 09:47 PM
Why are people acting like NOW is the time to trade Kobe? We've known for months this team wasn't going to compete for ****, and now one blowout loss and an injury to a raw rookie that may or may not have helped much this season, and all of a sudden its time to bottom out? If they wanted to trade Kobe they should have been fielding offers all summer, or better yet they shouldn't have signed him to that extension. Nothing has changed...

Congrats on the 5000th post!

KingstonHawke
10-29-2014, 09:49 PM
Why are people acting like NOW is the time to trade Kobe? We've known for months this team wasn't going to compete for ****, and now one blowout loss and an injury to a raw rookie that may or may not have helped much this season, and all of a sudden its time to bottom out? If they wanted to trade Kobe they should have been fielding offers all summer, or better yet they shouldn't have signed him to that extension. Nothing has changed...

I've felt this way for a while. But having this conversation publicly would've been a lot worse if Randle was healthy. His injury basically put the nail in the coffin on the Lakers season. I'm actually surprised that so many people think the trade would be bad for the Knicks. Only reason I'd make the trade as a Laker is because the 25% chance at getting Okafor... which some of these people seem to not realize is a HUGE deal. Heck they could even select Mudiay, and sign Moose as a free agent. Mudiay, Hardaway, Young, Randle, and Monroe would be a very exciting young lineup.

Jeffy25
10-29-2014, 09:52 PM
I've felt this way for a while. But having this conversation publicly would've been a lot worse if Randle was healthy. His injury basically put the nail in the coffin on the Lakers season. I'm actually surprised that so many people think the trade would be bad for the Knicks. Only reason I'd make the trade as a Laker is because the 25% chance at getting Okafor... which some of these people seem to not realize is a HUGE deal. Heck they could even select Mudiay, and sign Moose as a free agent. Mudiay, Hardaway, Young, Randle, and Monroe would be a very exciting young lineup.

It's a bad trade for the Knicks because of their scheme, set, and the players that you want are core to that system. And you are adding another year of a bad contract to a team that Phil Jackson is trying to change into his team.

Kobe isn't the player he was 10 years ago, when Phil would have wanted him in New York.

bleedprple&gold
10-29-2014, 09:55 PM
Why are people acting like NOW is the time to trade Kobe? We've known for months this team wasn't going to compete for ****, and now one blowout loss and an injury to a raw rookie that may or may not have helped much this season, and all of a sudden its time to bottom out? If they wanted to trade Kobe they should have been fielding offers all summer, or better yet they shouldn't have signed him to that extension. Nothing has changed...

Congrats on the 5000th post!

Thanks man! Didn't even realize I had reached that milestone.

ldawg
10-29-2014, 10:01 PM
Why are people acting like NOW is the time to trade Kobe? We've known for months this team wasn't going to compete for ****, and now one blowout loss and an injury to a raw rookie that may or may not have helped much this season, and all of a sudden its time to bottom out? If they wanted to trade Kobe they should have been fielding offers all summer, or better yet they shouldn't have signed him to that extension. Nothing has changed...Not only should Lakers trade Kobe Kobe should want a trade. Once Young, Nash and Randle got injured it insured they wont make the playoffs. No one expected them to win a championship but the very least compete. Right now they cant compete they look like an expansion team. A healthy Nash, Kobe, Young, Beasley, Boozer, Lin would have been entertaining and had a shot to upset in the 1st round. As is however they are just playing for Suns position in the draft. I want to see Kobe play but not like this.

albertajaysfan
10-29-2014, 10:12 PM
No chance the Lakers trade him. Bad for their brand both around the league and from a marketing perspective.

Plus what team would want him? He is an all time great but no team has a need and the ability to pull off a trade for Kobe his salary is a huge obstacle.

KingstonHawke
10-29-2014, 10:40 PM
I type a 378 word response, and one word used 'selfish' you find enough issue with to disregard the entire post and believe you have 'summarized' it?

No. I don't have any problem with Kobe's personality. It's suited him fine over his career. But his proclivity to chucking and his demanding ways to winning would be more of a disruption in a team set offense like in New York.



They don't need another guy needing to take 20 shots per game from the guard position when they already have Melo's 20 at SF, Lin's 10-15 at PG, and nobody that can shoot under the basket outside of Amare, whom you just took from them.

They'll get more than 25 PPG from the 4 guys you just requested from New York. If Amare is allowed to take 20 shots per game and is healthy all year, he'll score 25 ppg, just like he did the last time he took that many.

Issue is, nobody but Melo is going to be taking that many shots on this New York squad. Adding Kobe to it doesn't make sense to the roster. And he'll be unhappy with the lack of touches he will get in this scheme.


Then you aren't bothering to read my post if you don't understand. I've explained this very well, multiple times.

You are asking for New York to get rid of players that fit the current scheme that they are starting for a guy that won't fit in as well. Three guys who are young players who fit it well and are under contract, and the other one, the more valuable player, who is close to free agency, and the Knicks will be happy to lose his contract after this year, rather than adding another player who makes the same bloated salary for an additional year.


I don't understand why you are asking me this question, I think salary caps are *** ****ing stupid in the first place.


Let me ask you this. Why do you think this is a good deal for the Knicks for the next two years?

Let's lay out who is getting how many shots, and how the offense and defense would be set up with Kobe, instead of Larkin, Early, Amare, and THJR

So unproductive to you is 25 points a night, 5 rebounds, and 5 assist? Or are you somehow thinking that taking a year off to heal has turned Kobe into a shell of himself? And you just said that Kobe's personality suited him the the degree of 5 championships (and possibly more if David Stern didn't cheat the Lakers). But somehow that same personality is going to ruin the chemistry on a team where his best friend is the coach, his good friend is the star player, his former coach is the president, and they run the offense that he's a master of. You don't have to agree with me... but the basis of your opinions should at least be factual.

1. Why you brought up Lin taking shots makes no sense since he wouldn't be on the team in this scenario.
2. The Knicks prefer Melo at the 4, not the 3.
3. Amare staying healthy and scoring 25 ppg is what you're betting on?
4. Kobe doesn't fit the "current scheme" aka the triangle... aka the offense he won 5 rings in.

I should correct myself. I understand what you're saying. I don't understand how any of what your saying makes sense to you. Let's do what you said and break down the offense/defense.

Calderon is a very underrated PG who should look at home in the triangle (his high % shooting stretches the court). And he also has a great P&R game that he;ll be able to use with Carmelo and Bargnani as roll men.

Kobe will take his normal 20 shots a game. But with a true scoring threat at the 3/4 and surrounded by shooters, he should get a lot better looks than he has the last few years. Kobe's 3pt % is misleading because the shots he is forced to take. When open, he's one of the best 3 pt shooters in the league.

Depending on the night Carmelo will start at either the 3 or the 4. Regardless of where he starts he will play a lot of his 35 minutes at both. He's the ultimate matchup problem and will also take 20 shots a night posting up 3s, or stretching 4s. You can play him with Shumpart at the 3 for defense, or Bargnani at the 4 to stretch the defense.

Aside from Bargnani playing a little better when healthy, I think the rest is pretty obvious. Shump gives you 3 and 3. Dalambert is a poor man's Chandler. JR Smith will thrive off the bench at times and disappear at others. And Moultrie and Aldrich will give you minutes in the post.

These Knicks I could easily see as the 4 seed in the east behind the Bulls, Cavs, and Raptors.

On the other hand, I think the current Knicks miss the playoffs by a few games.

And let's not forget the biggest point. This is first and foremost a business. And bringing in Kobe would bring with it a windfall of cash. If he's 3rd in jersey sales now imagine if he went to NY. Imagine the exposure (something you normally pay for). The ticket prices in that market would shoot through the roof. And it would take an epic collapse for them not to make the playoffs.

And why did you bring up Lin? He's not even a part of this conversation.

Sssmush
10-29-2014, 10:42 PM
The Knicks can dream....... but really, what pieces or picks do they really have to send in trade?

Jeffy25
10-29-2014, 10:44 PM
So unproductive to you is 25 points a night, 5 rebounds, and 5 assist? Or are you somehow thinking that taking a year off to heal has turned Kobe into a shell of himself? And you just said that Kobe's personality suited him the the degree of 5 championships (and possibly more if David Stern didn't cheat the Lakers). But somehow that same personality is going to ruin the chemistry on a team where his best friend is the coach, his good friend is the star player, his former coach is the president, and they run the offense that he's a master of. You don't have to agree with me... but the basis of your opinions should at least be factual.

1. Why you brought up Lin taking shots makes no sense since he wouldn't be on the team in this scenario.
2. The Knicks prefer Melo at the 4, not the 3.
3. Amare staying healthy and scoring 25 ppg is what you're betting on?
4. Kobe doesn't fit the "current scheme" aka the triangle... aka the offense he won 5 rings in.

I should correct myself. I understand what you're saying. I don't understand how any of what your saying makes sense to you. Let's do what you said and break down the offense/defense.

Calderon is a very underrated PG who should look at home in the triangle (his high % shooting stretches the court). And he also has a great P&R game that he;ll be able to use with Carmelo and Bargnani as roll men.

Kobe will take his normal 20 shots a game. But with a true scoring threat at the 3/4 and surrounded by shooters, he should get a lot better looks than he has the last few years. Kobe's 3pt % is misleading because the shots he is forced to take. When open, he's one of the best 3 pt shooters in the league.

Depending on the night Carmelo will start at either the 3 or the 4. Regardless of where he starts he will play a lot of his 35 minutes at both. He's the ultimate matchup problem and will also take 20 shots a night posting up 3s, or stretching 4s. You can play him with Shumpart at the 3 for defense, or Bargnani at the 4 to stretch the defense.

Aside from Bargnani playing a little better when healthy, I think the rest is pretty obvious. Shump gives you 3 and 3. Dalambert is a poor man's Chandler. JR Smith will thrive off the bench at times and disappear at others. And Moultrie and Aldrich will give you minutes in the post.

These Knicks I could easily see as the 4 seed in the east behind the Bulls, Cavs, and Raptors.

On the other hand, I think the current Knicks miss the playoffs by a few games.

And let's not forget the biggest point. This is first and foremost a business. And bringing in Kobe would bring with it a windfall of cash. If he's 3rd in jersey sales now imagine if he went to NY. Imagine the exposure (something you normally pay for). The ticket prices in that market would shoot through the roof. And it would take an epic collapse for them not to make the playoffs.

And why did you bring up Lin? He's not even a part of this conversation.

Since you are just typing to yourself, and clearly not reading my posts, I'm not going to waste my time responding again.

You are clearly not reading them.

Dade County
10-30-2014, 12:03 AM
Wtf is this....

A mod better closed this thread just like they closed mine.

Or reopen mine.


I brought up Kobe would get traded or retire.

Crazy!

TheNumber37
10-30-2014, 12:19 AM
pretty sure he has a NTC.

Kobe is not a ring chaser. Lakers should at least be a playoff team as long as he's there.
They messed up not trading Howard

AIRMAR72
10-30-2014, 12:37 AM
So, to summarize, you hate Kobe's personality. And because of that the Knicks are better off without his possible 25 ppg, championship pedigree, extreme familiarity with the triangle and the coach/president, the money they would make from attendance/merchandise/exposure, etc.

I really don't understand people like you. You basically said that super injury-prone Amare, $23mil one year sooner, and a 2nd round prospect is worth more than a guy who will easily give you at least 25 ppg. You don't really think that. You just hate Kobe. Maybe that was your wife in Denver or something.

PS. That whole players not taking as much money as they can is the dumbest thing ever. How about you take less money at your job in exchange for casual fridays.
Nobody likes dealing with the TRUTH especially kobe Bryant favorite fans accept it Kobe is FINISH the laker organization is going through changes they be back in the ranks within 3yrs the organization PRESTIGE n RESOURCES has been established in the NBA league DECADES ago they WILL get the player or players they need to compete but this season is a wrap

Denver-boy
10-30-2014, 12:37 AM
iman shumpart, Amare, and a pair of 1st round picks for kobe. That deal would make sense for Lakers from a stand point, were going to STARTOVER. Iman is a nice young player to go with picks, and Amare is nice due to his expiring contract. these other offers are just low ball offers, Lakers will keep him if they dont get the offer right. I kinda wanna see Kobe, Melo, and Phil Jackson in New York. IM sure Phil would love to reunite with Kobe... thats a huge piece to his success in the past.

cssdmark
10-30-2014, 12:37 AM
Why the hell would the knicks want Kobe? Let's trade for a 37 old, that is way overpaid and will tie up our cap space for 2015 and 2016 when Marc Gasol and Kevin Durant will be free agents and you can try to sign them in their prime. That makes a lot of sense. Kobe has no value for the Knicks. He cannot help the Knicks win and he will not increase the franchises value. I would not trade Amare straight up for Kobe, at least after this year stat will be off the books. Someone said Kobe only has value in LA and they are correct and that is why he was signed to that terrible contract because he is the only draw left for the a Lakers. Maybe if LA pays 36 mil of his salary up front. Oh throw in Nash Since he will not play this year and then retire, that will help the Knicks win. You be smoking that good Wayne Brady.

SF8
10-30-2014, 12:42 AM
Kobe has zero trade value.

cssdmark
10-30-2014, 12:43 AM
pretty sure he has a NTC.

Kobe is not a ring chaser. Lakers should at least be a playoff team as long as he's there.
They messed up not trading Howard
They messed up in not keeping Howard he would at least bring other free agents to LA

Denver-boy
10-30-2014, 12:45 AM
Why the hell would the knicks want Kobe? Let's trade for a 37 old, that is way overpaid and will tie up our cap space for 2015 and 2016 when Marc Gasol and Kevin Durant will be free agents and you can try to sign them in their prime. That makes a lot of sense. Kobe has no value for the Knicks. He cannot help the Knicks win and he will not increase the franchises value. I would not trade Amare straight up for Kobe, at least after this year stat will be off the books. Someone said Kobe only has value in LA and they are correct and that is why he was signed to that terrible contract because he is the only draw left for the a Lakers. Maybe if LA pays 36 mil of his salary up front. Oh throw in Nash Since he will not play this year and then retire, that will help the Knicks win. You be smoking that good Wayne Brady.

Kobe is best SG in the game. id take kobe over wade or harden. no one is as clutch as kobe, still at age 37 he still a killer, a man that can take over a game. no value id take kobe over melo, shoot kobe goes to NY you better believe hes taking the back seat to Kobe... this guy is either too young to be on this site or needs to be drug tested. But you win buddy cuz I aint gonna argue over non sense. Kobe has no value this kid must be trolling or trying to be funny.

cssdmark
10-30-2014, 12:46 AM
Wtf is this....

A mod better closed this thread just like they closed mine.

Or reopen mine.


I brought up Kobe would get traded or retire.

Crazy!

He will not retire, like Nash he wants the money.

cssdmark
10-30-2014, 12:56 AM
So... you're saying that if you were the Knicks you wouldn't give up Hardaway Jr, Early, Larkin and Stoudmire for someone who two years ago averaged 27 pts a night? I would actually say that's a steal of a deal for the Knicks. And only makes sense due to the situation the Lakers are in with their draft pick.



Over the next 15 years I guarantee Okafor (who they'd have a 25% chance at) brings his team more money than Kobe will over that same time frame. And after two years, Kobe could return if he wanted to and finish out his career in LA. His presence in LA now just makes no sense though. They've wasted 2 years of his. And his contract would actually hamper them bringing in the FAs he'd need to compete.



I wish with you 100% until you said take back Nash. Nash is done for the season with his nerve issue. He's turning into a disabled exception most likely.



I would not make that trade for a guy who scored 27 points a game 2 years ago unless the trade was done two years ago. Kobe has done nothing for the Knicks and cannot do anything for the Knicks at this point but eat up the Knicks caps space

cssdmark
10-30-2014, 01:02 AM
You won't get an answer . I as a Knick fan would take all of his baggage, oh and the it factor too
Here is your answer, value in basketball is someone who can help you win a championship or for an owner help the team generate revenue. kobe cannot help the Knicks win and will eat up the cap space when younger more talented players are available such as Gasol and Durant. He may help fatten Dolan's pocket which I guess is value but as Knicks fans do we want to fatten Dolan's pockets or win?

richiesaurus310
10-30-2014, 01:13 AM
The trade I could absolutely see happening is Kobe to Oklahoma City. The Thunder figure they have to do something bold because of the Durant injury. Kobe likes Durant and Westbrook and agrees to waive his ntc for a chance at #6 instead of being in last place in LA.

Lakers receive Perkins, Collison, Roberson, Jones, and picks

Thunder receive Bryant, Millsap

Hawks receive Ibaka



Lakers get cap relief (luxury tax), two expirings, and a couple of Thunder picks which could be used to navigate through the draft the next couple years. They also take care of their star by not letting him rot in LA.

Thunder move Ibaka for cheaper Millsap while acquiring Kobe.

Hawks trade Millsap's expiring for two more years of Ibaka after this season.

SF8
10-30-2014, 01:23 AM
The trade I could absolutely see happening is Kobe to Oklahoma City. The Thunder figure they have to do something bold because of the Durant injury. Kobe likes Durant and Westbrook and agrees to waive his ntc for a chance at #6 instead of being in last place in LA.

Lakers receive Perkins, Collison, Roberson, Jones, and picks

Thunder receive Bryant, Millsap

Hawks receive Ibaka



Lakers get cap relief (luxury tax), two expirings, and a couple of Thunder picks which could be used to navigate through the draft the next couple years. They also take care of their star by not letting him rot in LA.

Thunder move Ibaka for cheaper Millsap while acquiring Kobe.

Hawks trade Millsap's expiring for two more years of Ibaka after this season.

So OKC becomes even worse defensively...

THE MTL
10-30-2014, 01:36 AM
Kobe is going to retire a Laker. His legacy is already set. There is no need for him to do anymore. A trade with the Knicks makes sense for both teams ALOT. But Kobe should ONLY be in a Laker uniform.

Howard_Zinn
10-30-2014, 01:37 AM
Lakers need to keep their pick and the Knicks have Stoudemire to trade. It makes perfect sense for both teams now that Randle is out.. I hate Kobe but even I don't want to see him abuse his body on the worst team in the league. Kobe could keep them out of that top 5 pick status too. Trade him to NY, Carmelo is one guy that would welcome playing with Kobe and Phil would make use of him in the triangle. This should happen. Makes too much sense for both parties.

Howard_Zinn
10-30-2014, 01:40 AM
Also Laker fans, don't expect anything of value.. Keeping your top 5 pick is your team's goal now for sure whether they are admitting it or not.. Kobe is not worth much in a trade considering most teams can't even trade for him and most players don't want to play with him.. LA needs their pick next year plain and simple. Randle and a top 5 pick with cap space and you're back in business..

Howard_Zinn
10-30-2014, 01:57 AM
It's a bad trade for the Knicks because of their scheme, set, and the players that you want are core to that system. And you are adding another year of a bad contract to a team that Phil Jackson is trying to change into his team.

Kobe isn't the player he was 10 years ago, when Phil would have wanted him in New York.

His contract would be up when the new salary cap hits.. Knicks are interested in Marc Gasol next offseason.. That's the only thing I could see that would keep them from being interested. Gasol is aging too though and big men tend to break down quick. Kobe doesn't have to be the player he was 10 years ago. Carmelo will be the number 1 option. I think the Knicks will struggle this year unlike some of the predictions I'm seeing.. Kobe would at least guarantee that team a playoff spot. Get them going in the right direction and give Carmelo some help.

richiesaurus310
10-30-2014, 02:11 AM
Westbrook
Bryant
Durant
Millsap
Adams

To me this would be more attractive than anything with the Knicks. If it were me I'd almost rather stay in LA than have to move across the country to play on the Knicks. Kobe and Melo wouldn't get passed the 2nd round and I think Kobe would realize that. Westbrook, Durant, Kobe, Millsap on the other hand could perhaps challenge the Spurs out West. It'd take some adjusting, but just too much talent for them not to make some noise in the playoffs. The Thunder would have the only "Big 4" in the NBA right now.

Howard_Zinn
10-30-2014, 02:13 AM
Westbrook
Bryant
Durant
Millsap
Adams

To me this would be more attractive than anything with the Knicks. If it were me I'd almost rather stay in LA than have to move across the country to play on the Knicks. Kobe and Melo wouldn't get passed the 2nd round and I think Kobe would realize that. Westbrook, Durant, Kobe, Millsap on the other hand could perhaps challenge the Spurs out West. It'd take some adjusting, but just too much talent for them not to make some noise in the playoffs. The Thunder would have the only "Big 4" in the NBA right now.

The Thunder have the poorest owner in the NBA.. Good luck getting him to pay for Kobe's contract. Knicks are the only realistic option.. Maybe Brooklyn.. Just can't see Kobe playing anywhere else but LA if its not with the Knicks.

Howard_Zinn
10-30-2014, 02:15 AM
and how is Milsap on the Thunder?? Did I miss something?

richiesaurus310
10-30-2014, 02:20 AM
The Thunder have the poorest owner in the NBA.. Good luck getting him to pay for Kobe's contract. Knicks are the only realistic option.. Maybe Brooklyn.. Just can't see Kobe playing anywhere else but LA if its not with the Knicks.

Kobe is still a name that sells merchandise. Plus imagine the hype of that team. It's the same reason the Lakers paid Kobe all that money. Even when losing he makes them money. Imagine on a super team what kind of $$$$ he'd bring in even in Oklahoma.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Howard_Zinn
10-30-2014, 02:20 AM
The trade I could absolutely see happening is Kobe to Oklahoma City. The Thunder figure they have to do something bold because of the Durant injury. Kobe likes Durant and Westbrook and agrees to waive his ntc for a chance at #6 instead of being in last place in LA.

Lakers receive Perkins, Collison, Roberson, Jones, and picks

Thunder receive Bryant, Millsap

Hawks receive Ibaka



Lakers get cap relief (luxury tax), two expirings, and a couple of Thunder picks which could be used to navigate through the draft the next couple years. They also take care of their star by not letting him rot in LA.

Thunder move Ibaka for cheaper Millsap while acquiring Kobe.

Hawks trade Millsap's expiring for two more years of Ibaka after this season.

Impossible trade.. Salaries don't work. Edit: I guess I was wrong.. Not sure how it works, but the trade machine is saying it does.. my bad.

SF8
10-30-2014, 04:18 AM
and how is Milsap on the Thunder?? Did I miss something?

3 team trade with Hawks.

SF8
10-30-2014, 04:19 AM
Kobe needs to realize that this is what every team will try to do to him and the Lakers


"Kobe, he can score 30 points, but he took a lot of shots," Dragic said. "I think the percentage was not so good. That's what we wanted to do."

http://www.nba.com/games/20141029/LALPHX/gameinfo.html?ls=slt

KingstonHawke
10-30-2014, 04:41 AM
Since you are just typing to yourself, and clearly not reading my posts, I'm not going to waste my time responding again.

You are clearly not reading them.

I read everything you said, just don't agree with ANY of it. You have this idea that Kobe is washed and a horrible fit for the Knicks. None of those opinions are rooted in fact. Kobe through two games is already averaging 25 points so the idea he can't contribute on the court is dumb. And the idea that he would be a bad fit on a team with so many similarities to his championship teams also makes no sense. Finally, between the economic impact of acquiring Kobe, and that his $23 comes off the books just one year later than Stoudmire's would, it's not as if they'd be married to him long term if things didn't work.

Don't mistake my response for me wanting to continue going back and forth with you though. You clearly don't understand basketball at all if you're calling Kobe Bryant "unproductive".


pretty sure he has a NTC.

Kobe is not a ring chaser. Lakers should at least be a playoff team as long as he's there.
They messed up not trading Howard

I agree. They repeated that mistake by not trading Pau, and they are in the process of making the same mistake with Kobe. Unless you're making a run at a ring, you have to try and get a return on assets. The Lakers management is cocky though.


Why the hell would the knicks want Kobe? Let's trade for a 37 old, that is way overpaid and will tie up our cap space for 2015 and 2016 when Marc Gasol and Kevin Durant will be free agents and you can try to sign them in their prime. That makes a lot of sense. Kobe has no value for the Knicks. He cannot help the Knicks win and he will not increase the franchises value. I would not trade Amare straight up for Kobe, at least after this year stat will be off the books. Someone said Kobe only has value in LA and they are correct and that is why he was signed to that terrible contract because he is the only draw left for the a Lakers. Maybe if LA pays 36 mil of his salary up front. Oh throw in Nash Since he will not play this year and then retire, that will help the Knicks win. You be smoking that good Wayne Brady.

I'd say that you're wrong about Kobe not being able to help the Knicks win. Maybe you just really love Stoudmire, or hate Kobe, but there's no way to know for sure. On the other hand, you saying he wouldn't increase the value of the franchise is pure ignorance. Due to the increased exposure alone the Knicks would bring in boatloads of cash. Due to the market they are in, as long as they made the playoffs (easily done in the east) they'd be the most talked about team in the league. Not to mention in that market, with that team history, ticket and merchandise sales would shoot through the roof.

I'm not even going to comment on you thinking they have a chance of signing Durant.

KingstonHawke
10-30-2014, 04:57 AM
Kobe needs to realize that this is what every team will try to do to him and the Lakers

He went 11-25. Great night given the circumstances. The only two off to a better start is Wade, and he's injured already.

This whole Kobe is washed talk has to end. It's just not based in reality.

KingstonHawke
10-30-2014, 05:03 AM
The trade I could absolutely see happening is Kobe to Oklahoma City. The Thunder figure they have to do something bold because of the Durant injury. Kobe likes Durant and Westbrook and agrees to waive his ntc for a chance at #6 instead of being in last place in LA.

Lakers receive Perkins, Collison, Roberson, Jones, and picks

Thunder receive Bryant, Millsap

Hawks receive Ibaka



Lakers get cap relief (luxury tax), two expirings, and a couple of Thunder picks which could be used to navigate through the draft the next couple years. They also take care of their star by not letting him rot in LA.

Thunder move Ibaka for cheaper Millsap while acquiring Kobe.

Hawks trade Millsap's expiring for two more years of Ibaka after this season.

Thunder can make that deal without giving up Ibaka after December 15th.

They just have to send Perkins, Collison, Jackson, Lamb, and Morrow. That's another trade I would 100% pull the trigger on from both perspectives.

Westbrook
Bryant
Durant
Ibaka
Adams

The depth would be thin at first, but they'd be able to sign veterans (Beasely comes to mind) for the low to fill things out.

ldawg
10-30-2014, 05:58 AM
Kobe to the New York make to much sense. the positives to New York out weight the negative. The only issue is his contract. Not really. Its a two year deal. Your adding a player that have won 5 rings in the system. Adding Kobe is like establishing that winning culture and it concrete the system like it has been in place for years. Kobe wont be the best player it will be Melo but the system will flow better. Kobe will also add a buzz in new york and in the NBA. Picture the system running smoother and in a year they add to that and in year 3 extend kobe with a huge pay cut with Kobe last year in the league. Prime to win a ring in 3 years. On the surface it looks bad but Kobe will help them in a lot of ways. Melo will get frustrated in the system and he will question rookie coach Fishers ability.

ldawg
10-30-2014, 06:12 AM
People who are saying Kobe washed up need to put down the haterade and put on their glasses. If the defense can focus on Kobe because of Lakers talent what do you expect his percentages to look like? once again the triangle will give him better looks plus he will be a co star to the younger Melo. this exactly why he need to leave Lakers. Pau was smart to move on now all the washed up talk with him ended.

PhillyFaninLA
10-30-2014, 07:41 AM
define value.

Fair enough. He has a career and a legacy with the Lakers, with no other team is he as marketable at this point, with his injuries and mouth.

Any team good enough to have him help them could probably get a younger less injured less total games player guy, any team bad enough to warrant the attention he'd bring would set back rebuilding.

amos1er
10-30-2014, 08:36 AM
Fair enough. He has a career and a legacy with the Lakers, with no other team is he as marketable at this point, with his injuries and mouth.

Any team good enough to have him help them could probably get a younger less injured less total games player guy, any team bad enough to warrant the attention he'd bring would set back rebuilding.

Do you actually believe this stuff.

amos1er
10-30-2014, 08:37 AM
People who are saying Kobe washed up need to put down the haterade and put on their glasses. If the defense can focus on Kobe because of Lakers talent what do you expect his percentages to look like? once again the triangle will give him better looks plus he will be a co star to the younger Melo. this exactly why he need to leave Lakers. Pau was smart to move on now all the washed up talk with him ended.

Amen.

ldawg
10-30-2014, 08:46 AM
Fair enough. He has a career and a legacy with the Lakers, with no other team is he as marketable at this point, with his injuries and mouth.

Any team good enough to have him help them could probably get a younger less injured less total games player guy, any team bad enough to warrant the attention he'd bring would set back rebuilding.
No , he is still good enough to help win a title. The problem is his contract can a team absorb it . That's like saying dirk, Duncan, ginobli is to old to contribute . Why would he leave a bad team to join another ? So if it's only to a contender and he can make the Knicks a legit contender in the east. May not be this year but if healthy definitely next when they add other pieces the 3rd year he take a huge pay cut to help them sign more help . I could see them wining a title at that time. East best Miami cavs, bulls . Kobe would give Knicks a edge a move in the right direction of where they won't to go and establish the triangle and winning culture.

PhillyFaninLA
10-30-2014, 08:51 AM
No , he is still good enough to help win a title. The problem is his contract can a team absorb it . That's like saying dirk, Duncan, ginobli is to old to contribute . Why would he leave a bad team to join another ? So if it's only to a contender and he can make the Knicks a legit contender in the east. May not be this year but if healthy definitely next when they add other pieces the 3rd year he take a huge pay cut to help them sign more help . I could see them wining a title at that time. East best Miami cavs, bulls . Kobe would give Knicks a edge a move in the right direction of where they won't to go and establish the triangle and winning culture.

My point is that you can get a younger player without the injury history for the same or less then it would cost Kobe. He is not worth it to a contender because they could get someone that could help them as much or near as much for more time and with less likelihood of injury.

cssdmark
10-30-2014, 09:16 AM
Please close this thread my fellow Knick fans are so use to losing that they are desperate and would want a 37 year old Kobe making 24 million a year for next two years instead of having cap space next year to get what we really need a very good center (Gasol) and a good pg that can breakdown the defense and finish at the rim. We do not need an aged volume shooter. If playing with him was so appealing Lebron or Carmelo would have signed with LA.. We are already wasting a year of Melo's time with this team let's sign Kobe and waste two of his years. This is why the Knicks always suck, bad short term thinking.

Jeffy25
10-30-2014, 09:20 AM
I read everything you said, just don't agree with ANY of it. You have this idea that Kobe is washed and a horrible fit for the Knicks. None of those opinions are rooted in fact. Kobe through two games is already averaging 25 points so the idea he can't contribute on the court is dumb. And the idea that he would be a bad fit on a team with so many similarities to his championship teams also makes no sense. Finally, between the economic impact of acquiring Kobe, and that his $23 comes off the books just one year later than Stoudmire's would, it's not as if they'd be married to him long term if things didn't work.

Don't mistake my response for me wanting to continue going back and forth with you though. You clearly don't understand basketball at all if you're calling Kobe Bryant "unproductive".



I agree. They repeated that mistake by not trading Pau, and they are in the process of making the same mistake with Kobe. Unless you're making a run at a ring, you have to try and get a return on assets. The Lakers management is cocky though.



I'd say that you're wrong about Kobe not being able to help the Knicks win. Maybe you just really love Stoudmire, or hate Kobe, but there's no way to know for sure. On the other hand, you saying he wouldn't increase the value of the franchise is pure ignorance. Due to the increased exposure alone the Knicks would bring in boatloads of cash. Due to the market they are in, as long as they made the playoffs (easily done in the east) they'd be the most talked about team in the league. Not to mention in that market, with that team history, ticket and merchandise sales would shoot through the roof.

I'm not even going to comment on you thinking they have a chance of signing Durant.

I don't have this idea that Kobe is washed up.

Which is why I don't think you've read what I wrote.

He is not a good fit for the Knicks and costs a lot of money. He won't play well being second fiddle in the Knicks scheme. That is all I have been saying.

I haven't said he is washed up, I don't think his personality is the issue. The issue is your ability to comprehend what I have been saying.

Kobe has less value to other teams than he does for the Lakers and their brand. It doesn't make sense for other teams to give up key pieces for him at this point with his salary and career arc.

It's not a diss on kobe, it's doesn't mean he is washed up. It's that it's a logistical issue and doesn't make sense for the team you are trying to put Kobe on. That is it.


You keep wrapping up your posts with things that for whatever reason, you think I've commented on.

When have I mentioned anyone signing Durant? Why do you Strawman like that? When have I *****ed about the salary cap?
This is why I believe you are either not reading my posts, or you just make up in your head what you think I'm talking about. Because you are dismissing things I haven't even said to make your points. Which is nothing but Strawman arguments, and it's why I'm not engaging further, because that isn't a discussion.

cssdmark
10-30-2014, 10:08 AM
The only team the Knicks should be talking to re: a trade is Phoenix th get one of their eight point guards. Three team trade Dragic to NYC, Kobe to Phoenix and Hardaway, smith jr and Larkin to LA now that makes sense for new york

ldawg
10-30-2014, 10:37 AM
My point is that you can get a younger player without the injury history for the same or less then it would cost Kobe. He is not worth it to a contender because they could get someone that could help them as much or near as much for more time and with less likelihood of injury.like who? Do they know the system? Do they bring experience? Younger don't mean better. Marc Gasol is a player they should target he give that presents inside. If they could go over the cap for one year it's worth it. I don't know the number game. Not sure if they can house all 3. That's why I say the only issue is his contract . Nothing about age or health he seem fine. Better than kd, wade, Paul George, rose wiggins , etc at the moment . Melo is not the youngest cat so you gear to win now not later.

ldawg
10-30-2014, 10:41 AM
The only team the Knicks should be talking to re: a trade is Phoenix th get one of their eight point guards. Three team trade Dragic to NYC, Kobe to Phoenix and Hardaway, smith jr and Larkin to LA now that makes sense for new yorkyou realize they run the triangle right? Did you pay attention to Jackson 9 rings. Did you notice any top tier PGs?.

TheNumber37
10-30-2014, 10:48 AM
No team is trading for Kobe. Unless he they can get him for essentially nothing.

He is extremely value, he's just the hardest player to acquire in the league because of his salary.

Hypothetically, if he were to be bought out, He would have a slew of teams lining up to sign him.
If you're kobe, and it's about winning, at that point He would sign with The Clippers.
Same building, same town of the past 18 years. IF he did move, The Knicks and Bulls make sense. Don't see him playing with Lebron in CLE.

TheNumber37
10-30-2014, 10:52 AM
That being said, Clippers don't have the trade pieces.
Bulls do, but have no reason to trade for him.
Knicks could, but it wouldn't help and they have already stated they are going to be players in FA next year...

Kobe still sells tickets, There will be sellout crowds to watch Kobe end his career in LA. From a business standpoint, it makes no sense for the Lakers to trade Kobe, they paid him 50 mil for a reason, he is an investment.
So Kobe will continue to shoot 25-30 times a game and when he score big it helps their $$$

AIRMAR72
10-30-2014, 11:04 AM
Kobe is best SG in the game. id take kobe over wade or harden. no one is as clutch as kobe, still at age 37 he still a killer, a man that can take over a game. no value id take kobe over melo, shoot kobe goes to NY you better believe hes taking the back seat to Kobe... this guy is either too young to be on this site or needs to be drug tested. But you win buddy cuz I aint gonna argue over non sense. Kobe has no value this kid must be trolling or trying to be funny. kobe is FINISH

ATX
10-30-2014, 11:55 AM
Nobody in their right mind would trade for that albatross contract. Besides, with Randall and Nash hurt for the year, who would want to pay to attend such a dismal product? He's not going anywhere until his impending retirement.

mjt20mik
10-30-2014, 11:58 AM
He's not gonna go anywhere. He is gonna beat MJ's record, then probably retire. I only see NYK as possible suitors cause they can toss Amare + Andrea (two expirings) for Kobe. Then again, the Lakers would only accept if they got picks, and the Knicks don't have some for a while.

richiesaurus310
10-30-2014, 12:55 PM
Thunder can make that deal without giving up Ibaka after December 15th.

They just have to send Perkins, Collison, Jackson, Lamb, and Morrow. That's another trade I would 100% pull the trigger on from both perspectives.

Westbrook
Bryant
Durant
Ibaka
Adams

The depth would be thin at first, but they'd be able to sign veterans (Beasely comes to mind) for the low to fill things out.

What happens Dec 15?

Yea I think he either ends up in OKC or doesn't get traded. I don't the he'd be willing to leave the Lakers unless it was for a legitimate shot at a title which can't happen this year in New York. The Bulls and Cavs would still beat Melo-Kobe's Knicks. That OKC team tho could have a shot at making it out of the West.

PurpleLynch
10-30-2014, 01:33 PM
No. I think any team would like to get him,even if he's old,but his salary is way high to be a real possibility. Plus,I'd like to see him finishing his career with the P&G,even if he won't reach that sixth ring.

ldawg
10-30-2014, 01:54 PM
I see many valid points on why he would and won't be traded. The realistic ones are contract to big, he wants to retire with the lakers. Lakers won't trade him because he sell tickets. It's best for him basketball wise to want to be traded , help his legacy. It would be great for the league see one of the best players of all time on a contender. As for lakers it's just time to move on it's not getting better it's getting worst band aids aren't working. This is what year 4? And how many coaches? Just hit the full reset button let a contender use his services and see him in the playoffs . This is one of those things that should happen but won't. He will retire with the lakers unfortunately. It was sad seeing Nash the last few years and the same may be in store for Kobe. A long sad goodbye . This is one of those goodbyes that can't happen soon enough .

IKnowHoops
10-30-2014, 02:20 PM
They can't trade/get rid of him until they are trying to win a ring. As bad as they are, Kobe is the only reason to watch a laker game. They are gonna get blow out every game this year. People are showing up simply to watch Kobe jack up 25 high difficulty/low percentage shots a game. Even though he will miss 3 out of every 4, there are enough laker fans amazed by that 1 make, that will continue to support Kobe in his one man show.

IKnowHoops
10-30-2014, 02:25 PM
What happens Dec 15?

Yea I think he either ends up in OKC or doesn't get traded. I don't the he'd be willing to leave the Lakers unless it was for a legitimate shot at a title which can't happen this year in New York. The Bulls and Cavs would still beat Melo-Kobe's Knicks. That OKC team tho could have a shot at making it out of the West.

Kobe would rather loose every game this year on LA while being able to jack up 30 shots and be the man, then be a roll player, and win a ring. He would not take that kind of hit to his stats. He would not do what Bosh seemed to do.

Mr.B
10-30-2014, 02:29 PM
Did the Lakers give him another no trade clause in his new contract?

Vinylman
10-30-2014, 02:50 PM
2014/15 kobe is 2011/2012 Steve Nash anyone trading for him deserves what they get....


Doesn't matter though since he will probably be hurt by the time he is eligible to be traded.

With or without kobe the Lakers will easily be bottom 2-3 this year and maintain their pick

DetroitBadBoy
10-30-2014, 04:04 PM
I feel for Kobe, he needs to work his tail off to make his team any bit competitive.

The Knicks trade talked about in this thread is really not that crazy. Yeah sure, Knicks gain Kobe's 23.5 mil this season (equal to Amar'e) and his 25 mil next but they get a guy who is a veteran in the triangle and brings a ton of revenue. Plus, he'd be a hell of a lot more impactful than Amar'e. After that, I'd be starting Melo at PF and Iman at SF.

Lakers take on Amar'e expiring and maybe Hardaway(quicker offseason cash and young talent)? NY takes a chance on getting that 2nd scoring presence, reuniting Kobe, Phil, D Fisher, and the triangle.

The question is, why not?

richiesaurus310
10-30-2014, 04:12 PM
Kobe would rather loose every game this year on LA while being able to jack up 30 shots and be the man, then be a roll player, and win a ring. He would not take that kind of hit to his stats. He would not do what Bosh seemed to do.

Nobody knows that for sure. If the Lakers are 7-21 on Xmas day and get rolled on by the Bulls on national television I think Kobe would waive his ntc to join OKC. Right now it's fine, the season just started and Kobe is still coming back from injury. He already has two tech's in two games. He's gonna be super frustrated by Christmas. My trade still would require the Thunder wanting to do something very bold which who knows if they'd do. But Westbrook, Kobe, Durant, and Ibaka or Millsap would be nasty.

richiesaurus310
10-30-2014, 04:14 PM
I feel for Kobe, he needs to work his tail off to make his team any bit competitive.

The Knicks trade talked about in this thread is really not that crazy. Yeah sure, Knicks gain Kobe's 23.5 mil this season (equal to Amar'e) and his 25 mil next but they get a guy who is a veteran in the triangle and brings a ton of revenue. Plus, he'd be a hell of a lot more impactful than Amar'e. After that, I'd be starting Melo at PF and Iman at SF.

Lakers take on Amar'e expiring and maybe Hardaway(quicker offseason cash and young talent)? NY takes a chance on getting that 2nd scoring presence, reuniting Kobe, Phil, D Fisher, and the triangle.

The question is, why not?

I don't think Kobe would join the Knicks. I also don't think Jim Buss would help Phil Jackson by doing this.

cssdmark
10-30-2014, 05:00 PM
I don't think Kobe would join the Knicks. I also don't think Jim Buss would help Phil Jackson by doing this.

It would make sense for Jim Buss to do it. It would make the Knicks older, tie up their cap space plus they would not win a championship. Lakers would have cap space to rebuild could pursue Mark Gasol and setup for a run at Durant in 2016 with Gasol, Randle and next years first. So tell me again this would be helping the Knicks?

Jamiecballer
10-30-2014, 05:06 PM
man it looks like i missed some fireworks in this thread. i'm sure i am not the first person to say that nobody is going to trade for Kobe at this point with that salary and declining body.

cssdmark
10-30-2014, 05:14 PM
[QUOTE=KingstonHawke;29196604]I read everything you said, just don't agree with ANY of it. You have this idea that Kobe is washed and a horrible fit for the Knicks. None of those opinions are rooted in fact. Kobe through two games is already averaging 25 points so the idea he can't contribute on the court is dumb. And the idea that he would be a bad fit on a team with so many similarities to his championship teams also makes no sense. Finally, between the economic impact of acquiring Kobe, and that his $23 comes off the books just one year later than Stoudmire's would, it's not as if they'd be married to him long term if things didn't work.

Don't mistake my response for me wanting to continue going back and forth with you though. You clearly don't understand basketball at all if you're calling Kobe Bryant "unproductive".



I agree. They repeated that mistake by not trading Pau, and they are in the process of making the same mistake with Kobe. Unless you're making a run at a ring, you have to try and get a return on







assets. The Lakers management is cocky though.



I'd say that you're wrong about Kobe not being able to help the Knicks win. Maybe you just really love Stoudmire, or hate Kobe, but there's no way to know for sure. On the other hand, you saying he wouldn't increase the value of the franchise is pure ignorance. Due to the increased exposure alone the Knicks would bring in boatloads of cash. Due to the market they are in, as long as they made the playoffs (easily done in the east) they'd be the most talked about team in the league. Not to mention in that market, with that team history, ticket and merchandise sales would shoot through the roof.

I'm not even going to comment on you thinking they have a chance of signing Durant.[/QU





I think there is some confusion in your post. For some odd reason you thinks Knick fans want to make Dolan richer, create a buzz and Not build a championship contender. Dolan is already rich, the Knicks are already the most valued NBA team. And we want to build a championship contending team. Not tie up cap space to watch Kobe jack up 25 shots a night and not win. I do not want Durant as he would not go well with Melo, we do not need both. We need players to compliment Melo. A center , a point guard is what we need not a 37 old volume shooter be
That will tie up funds that could be used for younger talented players who we could count on a build upon for the present and future. 3 team trade Kobe to phoenix, Goran to New York and Hardaway, Calderon and smith jr and Larkin to LA. We can keep amaze'sexpiring

Bruno
10-30-2014, 05:19 PM
Amare, Hardaway Jr., 2017 First, 2018 first for Kobe and Lin. Knicks would have to give picks, they have nothing on their roster of any value to the Lakers other than Hardaway jr.

the Lakers probably aren't allowed to trade Kobe. there might be an understanding between TWC and the Lakers that Kobe retires a Laker and plays two more years for ratings. that might have been a wink wink part of time warner giving the Lakers 3 billion over the next 25 years.

Lin-Bryant-Schumpert-Melo- Opps, we shouldn't have traded chandler.

thats at least interesting. maybe they convince Marc Gasol to join next summer and they get their anchor.

but the idea that the Lakers give kobe to the knicks for nothing? no chance, they'll pay with picks.

look at what Boston got for KG and Pierce. and Kobes still dropping 25 ppg in this league.

85BearsDefense
10-30-2014, 05:30 PM
Bulls could easily get him if Kobe truly wanted to be traded... Bulls have as many young assets as any team in the league. A package of picks with Butler, McBuckets, and Mirotic would easily get the job done. Not to mention Kobe wanted to be a Bull before, respects Thibs, loves Pau, and Chicago is a serious contender.

richiesaurus310
10-30-2014, 06:10 PM
Bulls could easily get him if Kobe truly wanted to be traded... Bulls have as many young assets as any team in the league. A package of picks with Butler, McBuckets, and Mirotic would easily get the job done. Not to mention Kobe wanted to be a Bull before, respects Thibs, loves Pau, and Chicago is a serious contender.

The salary cap would be the reason this wouldn't happen tho.

richiesaurus310
10-30-2014, 06:21 PM
It would make sense for Jim Buss to do it. It would make the Knicks older, tie up their cap space plus they would not win a championship. Lakers would have cap space to rebuild could pursue Mark Gasol and setup for a run at Durant in 2016 with Gasol, Randle and next years first. So tell me again this would be helping the Knicks?

It'd make them relevant though, although I agree not make them a championship team. The Knicks imo aren't even a playoff team right now so why help Phil make the playoffs if you're Jim Buss.

And again I don't think Kobe would waive his ntc to join the Knicks even if the Lakers are in last place. He won't wanna get spanked by Pau or LeBron in the playoffs in the 2nd round.

HoopsDrive
10-30-2014, 07:26 PM
Kobe merchandise still sells like cupcakes. Any team would be foolish to give away a player like Kobe, even on the tail end of his career.

KingstonHawke
10-30-2014, 09:12 PM
I don't have this idea that Kobe is washed up.

Which is why I don't think you've read what I wrote.

He is not a good fit for the Knicks and costs a lot of money. He won't play well being second fiddle in the Knicks scheme. That is all I have been saying.

I haven't said he is washed up, I don't think his personality is the issue. The issue is your ability to comprehend what I have been saying.

Kobe has less value to other teams than he does for the Lakers and their brand. It doesn't make sense for other teams to give up key pieces for him at this point with his salary and career arc.

It's not a diss on kobe, it's doesn't mean he is washed up. It's that it's a logistical issue and doesn't make sense for the team you are trying to put Kobe on. That is it.


You keep wrapping up your posts with things that for whatever reason, you think I've commented on.

When have I mentioned anyone signing Durant? Why do you Strawman like that? When have I *****ed about the salary cap?
This is why I believe you are either not reading my posts, or you just make up in your head what you think I'm talking about. Because you are dismissing things I haven't even said to make your points. Which is nothing but Strawman arguments, and it's why I'm not engaging further, because that isn't a discussion.

You called Kobe an "unproductive" "chucker"... that is you saying he is washed. Washed means unproductive if you were wondering.

And then you just said that he wouldn't fit in with the team because he couldn't play second fiddle. But that doesn't make any sense due to his skill set, knowledge of the offense, and familiarity with the staff.

And that Durant comment wasn't to you. It was to the guy that said that the Knicks need the extra year of cap space so they could target Durant.

Anyway, just stop talking. Seriously, I hate when people say something and then don't stand by their comments. You can't call someone an unproductive chucker that wont fit in with the offense he won 5 rings with because him and his friend Carmelo can't coexist... and then conclude with, I'm not disrespecting Kobe's abilities or personality. Dude, you don't even understand the triangle, or you'd realize that Kobe and Carmelo would be ideal fits together in that offense. Like Jordan and Pippen were. Both are versatile wings that can shoot off the catch and post up better than anyone else in the league. The main traits you need to be successful in the triangle.

cssdmark
10-30-2014, 09:23 PM
Amare, Hardaway Jr., 2017 First, 2018 first for Kobe and Lin. Knicks would have to give picks, they have nothing on their roster of any value to the Lakers other than Hardaway jr.

the Lakers probably aren't allowed to trade Kobe. there might be an understanding between TWC and the Lakers that Kobe retires a Laker and plays two more years for ratings. that might have been a wink wink part of time warner giving the Lakers 3 billion over the next 25 years.

Lin-Bryant-Schumpert-Melo- Opps, we shouldn't have traded chandler.

thats at least interesting. maybe they convince Marc Gasol to join next summer and they get their anchor.

but the idea that the Lakers give kobe to the knicks for nothing? no chance, they'll pay with picks.

look at what Boston got for KG and Pierce. and Kobes still dropping 25 ppg in this league.

Since we are being unrealistic how about Amare for the Lakers 1st in 2015 and 2016 , oh we will throw in Jr. also.

KingstonHawke
10-30-2014, 09:30 PM
What happens Dec 15?

Yea I think he either ends up in OKC or doesn't get traded. I don't the he'd be willing to leave the Lakers unless it was for a legitimate shot at a title which can't happen this year in New York. The Bulls and Cavs would still beat Melo-Kobe's Knicks. That OKC team tho could have a shot at making it out of the West.

Morrow and his $3mil become eligible to be traded. Add in the $6 million they have in trade exceptions and they could pull it off a few different ways. Only issue would be the tax. But if they won it all like they should you'd expect them to make that money back easily. And if they help onto Lamb, Kobe would be an awesome mentor for him.

I think Kobe would rather go to NY simply because NY>OK. But OKC makes a ton of sense also. I'd LOVE to see Durant develop his post game and play a lot more 4. He could go down as the best player of all time.

Cal827
10-30-2014, 09:33 PM
Jeez, Kobe to OKC? How much do you guys want to see Durant's PPG decrease to? Westbrook+Kobe shooting the ball :laugh:

Durant better work on his rebounding

cssdmark
10-30-2014, 10:07 PM
Jeez, Kobe to OKC? How much do you guys want to see Durant's PPG decrease to? Westbrook+Kobe shooting the ball :laugh:

Durant better work on his rebounding


OKC don't want Kobe either, sorry LA you be stuck with the mamba. Besides Jeanie already stated she wants to resign him after this contract is up.

richiesaurus310
10-30-2014, 10:24 PM
Jeez, Kobe to OKC? How much do you guys want to see Durant's PPG decrease to? Westbrook+Kobe shooting the ball :laugh:

Durant better work on his rebounding

The best team OKC ever had was with Westbrook, Durant, Harden, and Ibaka. A Kobe trade would get them as close as they'd ever get to that team again. Again this trade would require OKC wanting to do something very bold due to Durant's injury affecting them in the standings. Their road in the WC playoffs is gonna be really tough if they aren't at least a top 4 seed.

And you gotta think OKC needs to start thinking they need to win a championship before Durant's contract is up now. They almost need to get into Cleveland mode before LeBron left.

ldawg
10-30-2014, 10:28 PM
It would make sense for Jim Buss to do it. It would make the Knicks older, tie up their cap space plus they would not win a championship. Lakers would have cap space to rebuild could pursue Mark Gasol and setup for a run at Durant in 2016 with Gasol, Randle and next years first. So tell me again this would be helping the Knicks?
yes it would

Jamiecballer
10-30-2014, 10:52 PM
You called Kobe an "unproductive" "chucker"... that is you saying he is washed. Washed means unproductive if you were wondering.

And then you just said that he wouldn't fit in with the team because he couldn't play second fiddle. But that doesn't make any sense due to his skill set, knowledge of the offense, and familiarity with the staff.

And that Durant comment wasn't to you. It was to the guy that said that the Knicks need the extra year of cap space so they could target Durant.

Anyway, just stop talking. Seriously, I hate when people say something and then don't stand by their comments. You can't call someone an unproductive chucker that wont fit in with the offense he won 5 rings with because him and his friend Carmelo can't coexist... and then conclude with, I'm not disrespecting Kobe's abilities or personality. Dude, you don't even understand the triangle, or you'd realize that Kobe and Carmelo would be ideal fits together in that offense. Like Jordan and Pippen were. Both are versatile wings that can shoot off the catch and post up better than anyone else in the league. The main traits you need to be successful in the triangle.
He looks pretty damn bad so far, although from the ghastly attempts per 36 mins nobody bothered to tell him

jerellh528
10-30-2014, 10:53 PM
He looks pretty damn bad so far, although from the ghastly attempts per 36 mins nobody bothered to tell him

Still looks better than Lebron lmao!

cssdmark
10-30-2014, 11:03 PM
Kobe s one of the best to play the game but his glory days are gone. Finish your last two years in LA, help them sell tickets and then retire 20 years a Laker. NYC, OKC and TLC do not want or need him. CLOSE THIS THREAD