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Chronz
10-28-2014, 11:06 AM
Seems like most of us are in agreement that both Wade and Bosh will have resurgent campaigns, and the Heat are going to need it to offset the departure of the games best player. Now we get to see just how right Spo is when he states that Bosh was the most important member of the Big-3. IIRC the "+/- Metrics" back him, yes I know they're hazy but whatever the reason (Spacing+D most likely), Bosh was their most influential player for several regular seasons.

Team influence always matter but individually, what do you expect from them? What kind of production, most people say 20-10 for Bosh and they leave it at that, but depending on the efficiency and team results, 20-10 could look dramatically different. Decided to take a look at the numbers on the Big-3, this is how Bosh and Wade have fared over the last 4 years, with and with out the MVP on the court.


* Stats are Per36 Minutes




D-Wade:


2014 (1162 Minutes With Bron vs 612 Off)

2014: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 18.2 25.9
REB: 5.0 4.8
AST: 4.9 5.6
TO : 2.8 4.2

TS% : 60.7 56.4
O-RTG: 109 103.6
D-RTG: 102 104

Team +/- +4.7 -0.9







2013 (1933 Minutes With Bron vs 457 Off)


2013: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 20.8 27.2
REB: 5.0 6.1
AST: 5.0 6.4
TO : 2.6 4.1

TS% : 60.7 56.4
O-RTG: 113.9 105.6
D-RTG: 98.5 103.1

Team +/- +10.3 +1.2







2012 (1315 Minutes With Bron vs 309 Off)


2012: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 23.8 24.6
REB: 5.2 5.6
AST: 5.1 4.6
TO : 2.3 5.3

TS% : 56.5 53.6
O-RTG: 109.9 96.6
D-RTG: 95.8 98.3

Team +/- +10.2 -3.4








2011 (2242 Minutes With Bron vs 580 Off)


2011: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 23.8 24.6
REB: 6.0 7.0
AST: 3.9 6.3
TO : 2.6 4.6

TS% : 58.6 56.8
O-RTG: 112.9 107
D-RTG: 100.5 103.6

Team +/- +8.9 +1.2






Bosh:



2014 (2187 Minutes With Bron vs 344 Off)

2014: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 18.7 15.4
REB: 7.2 8.6
AST: 1.3 1.0
TO : 1.9 1.2

TS% : 62.3 45.3
O-RTG: 110.6 99
D-RTG: 101.4 96.9

Team +/- +7.2 +0.9







2013 (1991 Minutes With Bron vs 462 Off)


2013: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 17.7 19.8
REB: 7.4 7.1
AST: 1.7 2.1
TO : 1.9 1.9

TS% : 59.3 59.1
O-RTG: 113.2 105.3
D-RTG: 99.4 108.5

Team +/- +9.2 -2.9







2012 (1473 Minutes With Bron vs 533 Off)


2012: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 17.3 21.3
REB: 8.2 7.9
AST: 1.8 2.0
TO : 2.0 2.4

TS% : 54.8 55.9
O-RTG: 109.1 102.8
D-RTG: 96.9 95.9

Team +/- +8.6 +2.5








2011 (2197 Minutes With Bron vs 597 Off)


2011: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 17.7 21.6
REB: 8.6 6.9
AST: 1.7 2.5
TO : 1.7 2.0

TS% : 57.2 56.2
O-RTG: 111.5 108.2
D-RTG: 98.7 102

Team +/- +9.0 +3.4









Its not shocking to see the uptick in usage stats without Bron and uptick in efficiency with him on the court, that's suppose to be the trade off that comes with winning, but its still alil surprising to see how mediocre the D-Wade lineups fared without Bron. From Y1-Y4, his units go +1.2, -3.4, +1.2, -0.9. Not sure how many of these minutes came with Bosh around but Im sure many of these lineups were against second units, showing just how thin the Heat were outside their trio. Bosh has fared much better over the same period of time (+3.4,+2.5,-2.9,+0.9) hinting at Spo's theory regarding the pace and space system hes built around Bosh.


That said, the system will be different now, I get that Wade will get the ball almost exclusively, what I want to know is if Bosh is still going to look to space the floor for his teammates or if hes going to play like he did in Toronto? Either way there would have to be some sacrifices made for one of the 2, question is, who's Miami #1 "go-to-guy"? Wade or Bosh?


What kind of production and efficiency do you expect? How many games do you see the duo winning?

TheNumber37
10-28-2014, 11:52 AM
Bosh, 19ppg, 8rpg

Wade 22ppg 5rpg, 5apg

PurpleLynch
10-28-2014, 12:51 PM
I think Bosh should be the the go-to-guy,because Wade is playing at a good level,but he's a high risk in terms of health.

I can't imagine how they will do this season. In the East just 4 teams are PO lock imo:Cavs,Bulls,Wizards and Raptors. Miami could be right there,but I'm not still convinced.

InRoseWeTrust
10-28-2014, 01:02 PM
I do consider Miami a playoff lock in the East. I think Bosh is going to have a nice year, somewhere along the lines of 20/9.5. I could see Wade going 18/5/4, but I worry about him.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-28-2014, 01:10 PM
Wade's health is a key factor. Also he wont be able to coast through regular season and save him self for playoffs only.

2-ONE-5
10-28-2014, 01:24 PM
im on the other side i dont think either do all that much and Wade has a rapid decline. Bosh is still going to be abused by Centers in the paint and be a bad rebounder

colinskik
10-28-2014, 01:42 PM
im on the other side i dont think either do all that much and Wade has a rapid decline. Bosh is still going to be abused by Centers in the paint and be a bad rebounder

Will Bosh be playing C or PF? I'm assuming he's PF.

I think Bosh and Wade are actually a pretty good one-two punch. I feel like both have something to prove. Wade will try and prove that he can again lead the Heat to the playoffs and will probably focus on facilitating the offense. We know he can still score the rock as well. His decline will continue, but I feel like at least for this year he leaves it all out on the court. Bosh will show that he can regain his TOR form by picking up his scoring ,and will most likely be the feature in the new offense.

Even though I think they'll make the playoffs, I think they're bench is still too thin to make any serious noise.

albertajaysfan
10-28-2014, 01:44 PM
Bosh should be the #1 option as stated by others just because of the health concerns with Wade. I think having Bosh as the #1 option minimizes some of the concerns with Wade. Miami needs him to contribute for the whole season and I think being the sidekick makes that more likely to happen.

I am more interested to see how this group does collectively. Having a chip on their shoulders to prove they can be even somewhat successful without Lebron could help them a lot. At the same time Bosh only ever made the playoffs once as the #1 option in Toronto. His 'career years' stats wise came on some brutal teams where he got to do whatever he wanted on offence which led to some high usage rates.

I also think the concerning part apart Wade's stats is the huge uptick in turnovers without LeBron. I get that it is because he would become the primary ball handler but that is a major difference.

alexander_37
10-28-2014, 01:49 PM
Wade is a wash he will play like 30 games tops anyways

I could see Bosh going 20/9

5ass
10-28-2014, 01:50 PM
im on the other side i dont think either do all that much and Wade has a rapid decline. Bosh is still going to be abused by Centers in the paint and be a bad rebounder

I'm with you. I think they're a 42 win team. Deng and wade have declined. Chalmers will be exposed for his lack of PG skills. Bosh is still playing out of position.

Slug3
10-28-2014, 01:56 PM
I think Bosh will be 20 PPG with 9 Rebounds per game.

I think Wade will be 19 PPG with 5 Ast and 5 rebounds.

slaker619
10-28-2014, 01:59 PM
Ecf !

detzfish
10-28-2014, 02:02 PM
If healthy I think wade will be at 20-5-5

Bosh will be around 22-8 in my opinion

They will make the playoffs if wade stays healthy but won't legitimately compete for a ring

Sandman
10-28-2014, 02:05 PM
better question, how many games does DWade miss

Tony_Starks
10-28-2014, 02:32 PM
24-10 and a couple blocks for Bosh. 25-5-5 for Wade. 2nd best team in the east, ECF.

Tony_Starks
10-28-2014, 02:36 PM
im on the other side i dont think either do all that much and Wade has a rapid decline. Bosh is still going to be abused by Centers in the paint and be a bad rebounder

Bosh isn't playing center anymore he's back to PF. They have McRoberts and Birdman for that.

mjm07
10-28-2014, 02:39 PM
im on the other side i dont think either do all that much and Wade has a rapid decline. Bosh is still going to be abused by Centers in the paint and be a bad rebounder

Bosh will also abuse slow footed, bigger centers on his side of the court. 20-24 PPM and 8-10 REB per game is where i see him this yr. With D-Wade proving his doubters wrong, as he always does, by playing most games and putting up 18-22PPG, 4-6 REB/AST. HEAT should, at the very least, be a top 6 team in the East.

mjm07
10-28-2014, 02:41 PM
Bosh isn't playing center anymore he's back to PF. They have McRoberts and Birdman for that.

Bosh will be "starting" at the Center position.

2-ONE-5
10-28-2014, 02:55 PM
Will Bosh be playing C or PF? I'm assuming he's PF.

I think Bosh and Wade are actually a pretty good one-two punch. I feel like both have something to prove. Wade will try and prove that he can again lead the Heat to the playoffs and will probably focus on facilitating the offense. We know he can still score the rock as well. His decline will continue, but I feel like at least for this year he leaves it all out on the court. Bosh will show that he can regain his TOR form by picking up his scoring ,and will most likely be the feature in the new offense.

Even though I think they'll make the playoffs, I think they're bench is still too thin to make any serious noise.

who plays C then, McBob? I cant see that unless they have someone elwse im forgetting?

2-ONE-5
10-28-2014, 02:57 PM
Bosh will also abuse slow footed, bigger centers on his side of the court. 20-24 PPM and 8-10 REB per game is where i see him this yr. With D-Wade proving his doubters wrong, as he always does, by playing most games and putting up 18-22PPG, 4-6 REB/AST. HEAT should, at the very least, be a top 6 team in the East.

you heat homers are cute. i know its tough to swallow after the alst 4 years but you have at best a fringe playoff team and thats mostly thanks to the Pacers injury situation. Bosh isnt abusing anyone on iether end of the court, he is still gonna be a soft *** jump shooter

Slug3
10-28-2014, 03:22 PM
Bosh isn't playing center anymore he's back to PF. They have McRoberts and Birdman for that.

Bosh is still playing center.

WaDe03
10-28-2014, 03:34 PM
It'll be a great year I see us as a 3-5 seed and when the playoffs get here who knows what will happen. I know no one will be wanting to play the Heat though.

Wade and Bosh looked more than ready to start the season. Wade will be the number 1 option and our closer as he was against Houston last week and he came through for us. I see Wade around the area of 25-4-6 with at least a steal and block a game. His field goal % will drop to around 50 and hell probably average 1 more turnover per game.

Bosh I see averaging 23 and 9 and will be great as the second option and possibly some games our closer depending on if he has a mismatch or not (I still feel more comfortable going to Wade).

WaDe03
10-28-2014, 03:36 PM
you heat homers are cute. i know its tough to swallow after the alst 4 years but you have at best a fringe playoff team and thats mostly thanks to the Pacers injury situation. Bosh isnt abusing anyone on iether end of the court, he is still gonna be a soft *** jump shooter

Haha you Heat haters are cute you're going to look real dumb when the playoffs come around and the Heat have HCA in at least the first round.

mjm07
10-28-2014, 03:36 PM
you heat homers are cute. i know its tough to swallow after the alst 4 years but you have at best a fringe playoff team and thats mostly thanks to the Pacers injury situation. Bosh isnt abusing anyone on iether end of the court, he is still gonna be a soft *** jump shooter

You HEAT haters are cute. I may be a homer but you're grossly undervaluing both players not to mention the HEAT as a team.

WaDe03
10-28-2014, 03:40 PM
Seems like most of us are in agreement that both Wade and Bosh will have resurgent campaigns, and the Heat are going to need it to offset the departure of the games best player. Now we get to see just how right Spo is when he states that Bosh was the most important member of the Big-3. IIRC the "+/- Metrics" back him, yes I know they're hazy but whatever the reason (Spacing+D most likely), Bosh was their most influential player for several regular seasons.

Team influence always matter but individually, what do you expect from them? What kind of production, most people say 20-10 for Bosh and they leave it at that, but depending on the efficiency and team results, 20-10 could look dramatically different. Decided to take a look at the numbers on the Big-3, this is how Bosh and Wade have fared over the last 4 years, with and with out the MVP on the court.


* Stats are Per36 Minutes




D-Wade:


2014 (1162 Minutes With Bron vs 612 Off)

2014: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 18.2 25.9
REB: 5.0 4.8
AST: 4.9 5.6
TO : 2.8 4.2

TS% : 60.7 56.4
O-RTG: 109 103.6
D-RTG: 102 104

Team +/- +4.7 -0.9







2013 (1933 Minutes With Bron vs 457 Off)


2013: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 20.8 27.2
REB: 5.0 6.1
AST: 5.0 6.4
TO : 2.6 4.1

TS% : 60.7 56.4
O-RTG: 113.9 105.6
D-RTG: 98.5 103.1

Team +/- +10.3 +1.2







2012 (1315 Minutes With Bron vs 309 Off)


2012: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 23.8 24.6
REB: 5.2 5.6
AST: 5.1 4.6
TO : 2.3 5.3

TS% : 56.5 53.6
O-RTG: 109.9 96.6
D-RTG: 95.8 98.3

Team +/- +10.2 -3.4








2011 (2242 Minutes With Bron vs 580 Off)


2011: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 23.8 24.6
REB: 6.0 7.0
AST: 3.9 6.3
TO : 2.6 4.6

TS% : 58.6 56.8
O-RTG: 112.9 107
D-RTG: 100.5 103.6

Team +/- +8.9 +1.2






Bosh:



2014 (2187 Minutes With Bron vs 344 Off)

2014: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 18.7 15.4
REB: 7.2 8.6
AST: 1.3 1.0
TO : 1.9 1.2

TS% : 62.3 45.3
O-RTG: 110.6 99
D-RTG: 101.4 96.9

Team +/- +7.2 +0.9







2013 (1991 Minutes With Bron vs 462 Off)


2013: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 17.7 19.8
REB: 7.4 7.1
AST: 1.7 2.1
TO : 1.9 1.9

TS% : 59.3 59.1
O-RTG: 113.2 105.3
D-RTG: 99.4 108.5

Team +/- +9.2 -2.9







2012 (1473 Minutes With Bron vs 533 Off)


2012: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 17.3 21.3
REB: 8.2 7.9
AST: 1.8 2.0
TO : 2.0 2.4

TS% : 54.8 55.9
O-RTG: 109.1 102.8
D-RTG: 96.9 95.9

Team +/- +8.6 +2.5








2011 (2197 Minutes With Bron vs 597 Off)


2011: W/Bron --- W/Out Bron
PTS: 17.7 21.6
REB: 8.6 6.9
AST: 1.7 2.5
TO : 1.7 2.0

TS% : 57.2 56.2
O-RTG: 111.5 108.2
D-RTG: 98.7 102

Team +/- +9.0 +3.4









Its not shocking to see the uptick in usage stats without Bron and uptick in efficiency with him on the court, that's suppose to be the trade off that comes with winning, but its still alil surprising to see how mediocre the D-Wade lineups fared without Bron. From Y1-Y4, his units go +1.2, -3.4, +1.2, -0.9. Not sure how many of these minutes came with Bosh around but Im sure many of these lineups were against second units, showing just how thin the Heat were outside their trio. Bosh has fared much better over the same period of time (+3.4,+2.5,-2.9,+0.9) hinting at Spo's theory regarding the pace and space system hes built around Bosh.


That said, the system will be different now, I get that Wade will get the ball almost exclusively, what I want to know is if Bosh is still going to look to space the floor for his teammates or if hes going to play like he did in Toronto? Either way there would have to be some sacrifices made for one of the 2, question is, who's Miami #1 "go-to-guy"? Wade or Bosh?


What kind of production and efficiency do you expect? How many games do you see the duo winning?

Pretty good numbers with LeBron off the court. Wade also had the 6th highest PER in the league with LeBron on the bench although it's a small sample size it's still encouraging.

Ares
10-28-2014, 03:43 PM
I would love nothing more than for the Heat to make the ECF and get annihilated by the Cavs BUT there's no way Miami makes it near the ECF. Maybe semi finals though :)

WaDe03
10-28-2014, 03:43 PM
Wade is a wash he will play like 30 games tops anyways

I could see Bosh going 20/9

Didn't look like a wash when he was going in Harden and Ariza's *** last weak and making y'all defense look dumb as hell.

Thank god the season starts tonight and dumb comments like this will stop.

mike_noodles
10-28-2014, 03:51 PM
Bosh gonna turn in an MVP type performance.

2-ONE-5
10-28-2014, 04:19 PM
You HEAT haters are cute. I may be a homer but you're grossly undervaluing both players not to mention the HEAT as a team.

im a hater bucz i dont think they have a good team? newsflash bro not everyone is hater for having a different opinion, get over it. you had your run, now its over.

SeoulBeatz
10-28-2014, 04:56 PM
18-5-4 for Wade

22-10-4 for Bosh.

I don't think Wade will play over 40+ games this year though.

SportsFanatic10
10-28-2014, 05:29 PM
Bosh isn't playing center anymore he's back to PF. They have McRoberts and Birdman for that.

mcroberts is a pf, bosh is still the heat's starting center and bird is his backup.


anyways i'm gonna say 20pts 8.5reb for bosh, and 21pts 4reb and 6.5ast for wade playing in 70 games.

WaDe03
10-28-2014, 05:55 PM
im a hater bucz i dont think they have a good team? newsflash bro not everyone is hater for having a different opinion, get over it. you had your run, now its over.

No a hater because I always see you bashing the Heat or Wade but like I said you'll feel dumb when the playoffs come and your prediction is completely wrong.

Have fun tanking though seems like it would be a blast to be a fan of Philly sports.

FlashBolt
10-29-2014, 12:58 AM
Let's face it... Miami is just an average team without LeBron. You have a SG who has been hindered with injuries for years now.. A PF who consistently admits to his dislike of playing in the post and is rather, soft. Bosh's defense is overrated. He's great in picking up defenders in a pick-and-roll but that's because of his slim figure which allows him to be more mobile.. That along with the fact that he is tall and long, gives him a great reach. But, why do we ignore that he consistently gets destroyed by PF/C's in the paint? That's not news.. Against David West, destroyed. Against Roy Hibbert, destroyed. Against Tim Duncan, against Al Jefferson, and even against KG of the Celtics. This guy is such a liability on the defensive end despite his occasional block against a small guard. You also have a new system since they are probably going to limit their threes and play at a slower pace. All in all, you have two former stars who are borderline all-stars. Not good enough.

Dade County
10-29-2014, 01:10 AM
I'm just waiting for Pat to pull off a trade, until then I'm just going to ride the waves.

On any given night through the 1st two months of the season...

Wade 17-25pts per night

Bosh 20-26pts per night

Crackadalic
10-29-2014, 01:37 AM
Wade 18ppg
Bosh 23ppg

Fighting for a playoff spot

numba1CHANGsta
10-29-2014, 04:43 AM
Wade: 50 DNP's, 10 broken bones, 5 wheelchairs(with spinners)

Bosh: 100 navy men, 45 drag queens, 20 raptors, 5 STD's

amos1er
10-29-2014, 07:14 AM
I predict that they will both have a resurgence in stats. Playing with a guy like Lebron who is very focused on personal stats can be frustrating at times as we have heard from Bosh. Interested to see how they both do without him and if Wade can stay healthy of course.

amos1er
10-29-2014, 07:15 AM
Wade 18ppg
Bosh 23ppg

Fighting for a playoff spot

In the east... :eyebrow:

amos1er
10-29-2014, 07:15 AM
Wade: 50 DNP's, 10 broken bones, 5 wheelchairs(with spinners)

Bosh: 100 navy men, 45 drag queens, 20 raptors, 5 STD's

:laugh:

Big Zo
10-29-2014, 08:56 AM
Wade: 50 DNP's, 10 broken bones, 5 wheelchairs(with spinners)

Bosh: 100 navy men, 45 drag queens, 20 raptors, 5 STD's

You have some really strange fantasies there, son...

Crackadalic
10-29-2014, 09:41 AM
In the east... :eyebrow:

Yes even in the east. There defense has taken a step back and wade is not guaranteed to play more than 60 games

There point guard rotation is horrible as well.