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View Full Version : Will D12 finally take that next step?



P&GRealist
10-26-2014, 04:02 AM
He is now well over 2 yrs removed from back surgery, well over a yr removed from the shoulder injury. Settled in Houston, no Asik stealing minutes from him.

Does D12 get back to Orlando D12 version where he was a top 5 perennial MVP candidate and a top 3 overall impactful player of the league?

Does D12 lead his team to atleast the WCF?

Does he get back to DPOY status?


Thoughts.

ThuglifeJ
10-26-2014, 04:49 AM
No. Too immature surrounded by immature people...so he'll never grow or make that step until he distances himself from other poor attitude young gunz like Harden.

LA doesn't count.

MrfadeawayJB
10-26-2014, 09:24 AM
Can't teach a old dog new tricks. Especially when he has no interest in learning them

mightybosstone
10-26-2014, 09:55 AM
I disagree that Dwight doesn't try. If you've seen him from his Orlando days until now, he's clearly added a few decent post moves to his repertoire that he didn't have before. But as much as it pains me to say it, I don't think Dwight will ever put up the kind of numbers that he did in Orlando. He can do it in spurts, like how he dominated that Portland series last year. But I think he's lost a step from his Magic days. That doesn't mean he can't still put up a hyper-efficient 18/12/2 or that he doesn't still belong in the DPOY race every year. It just means he passed his peak a while back and it's unlikely he'll ever be that guy again.

Daze9900
10-26-2014, 10:03 AM
Can't teach a old dog new tricks. Especially when he has no interest in learning them

This I was just going to say this and you nailed it. He initially said no to working out with Hakeem and still doesn't care about his free throws. So you have a guy that relies on his athleticism getting older and being removed from a major surgery. He is still going to play well and be a factor but as he gets older you can only imagine that he might be subject to a further injuries and a decline in his game.

Dade County
10-26-2014, 11:03 AM
I think Howard is going to have big year. I don't see them making it to the WCF, but you never know if other contending teams out west come down with an injury.



Harden is a crafty offensive player but whatever con job the league has going on with him, that he only gets calls in the regular season, but when the playoffs start he's craftiness gets put on ice. I'm sure thats something Harden signed on for, so he has to deal with it, but I think thats one of the biggest reasons why the Rockets aren't going to get out of the West without a major injury to another team.

SeoulBeatz
10-26-2014, 12:18 PM
I don't doubt Dwight's effort to improve his game.

He just doesn't have that natural coordination in the post that bigs like Hakeem had. Dwight's movement is much more rigid and brute, thus making all of his post moves look awkward. No matter how hard he tries, he's never going to develop that elite touch in the post.

I think it's a little too late for him to take that next step into an MVP caliber center, but he could still push Houston to that next level if he stays healthy and puts up efficient numbers.

ThuglifeJ
10-26-2014, 01:18 PM
I disagree that Dwight doesn't try. If you've seen him from his Orlando days until now, he's clearly added a few decent post moves to his repertoire that he didn't have before. But as much as it pains me to say it, I don't think Dwight will ever put up the kind of numbers that he did in Orlando. He can do it in spurts, like how he dominated that Portland series last year. But I think he's lost a step from his Magic days. That doesn't mean he can't still put up a hyper-efficient 18/12/2 or that he doesn't still belong in the DPOY race every year. It just means he passed his peak a while back and it's unlikely he'll ever be that guy again.

A few isn't very impressive or even acceptable for being in league this long. Agree with rest.

runbch
10-26-2014, 02:18 PM
I don't see Dwight's game age gracefully. He can still play at an all star level but he will never get back to his Orlando days.

bucketss
10-26-2014, 02:58 PM
even in his few down years, hes still the best center in the game.

bucketss
10-26-2014, 03:02 PM
26 13 2.8 blks last playoffs

Tysons_Beard
10-26-2014, 03:04 PM
uhhhh hes very good regardless

Byronicle
10-26-2014, 03:10 PM
He dominated because he was physical and that's how he made his impact. When he was at his peak, he was the best blue collared basketball player in the league.

He forgot how to dominate the boards and make vicious put back slams because teams have been trying to change his game into a post up back to the basket.

If he wants to become dominating then he's going to have to get gritty and play that blue collared style of basketball.

Bruno
10-26-2014, 03:49 PM
26 13 2.8 blks last playoffs
so that means he's going to take the next step? how many examples do we have of players making the "next step" on their 30th birthday? that was seven games, one round, heads up single coverage against Robin Lopez for almost the entire series.

we know what Dwight can do against single coverage when that single defender is an average NBA center. he can take over a game when the circumstances allow him to. he question is, what does he do when he has to pass out of double teams while being smothered by zones? most teams won't play him like Portland did.

dwight will have a good season. probably very good. but "taking the next step" isn't in the cards for a soon to be 30 year old who's always relied on athleticism over skill, physical discipline, and footwork.

5ass
10-26-2014, 04:57 PM
Dwight's reliance on his athleticism is over stated. He was more reliant on strength and quickness. After his back surgery Dwight lost a lot of weight. It makes sense, but now that his back is better, he can probably get back to the physical beast he was in Orlando. He has improved his post game since his orlando days. That being said, if he can hit 70% of his fts he can be better than ever.

amos1er
10-26-2014, 06:19 PM
I hope so... I am taking him in my fantasy league.

amos1er
10-26-2014, 06:23 PM
so that means he's going to take the next step? how many examples do we have of players making the "next step" on their 30th birthday? that was seven games, one round, heads up single coverage against Robin Lopez for almost the entire series.

we know what Dwight can do against single coverage when that single defender is an average NBA center. he can take over a game when the circumstances allow him to. he question is, what does he do when he has to pass out of double teams while being smothered by zones? most teams won't play him like Portland did.

dwight will have a good season. probably very good. but "taking the next step" isn't in the cards for a soon to be 30 year old who's always relied on athleticism over skill, physical discipline, and footwork.

Excellent post as usual.

P&GRealist
10-26-2014, 07:02 PM
26 13 2.8 blks last playoffs
There's a difference between the center having the best stats, and the best center in the league.

Best center in the league has to be impactful as hell. Dwight was in Orlando, last 2-3 yrs he hasn't been. ANd plus, you're only giving me a 6 game sample size as he went up against Robin Lopez.

Understand that if Dwight was scoring big in that series, he wasn't able to stop LMA on the other end.

FOBolous
10-26-2014, 09:18 PM
i think, at this point, he is who he is. the only thing he can really improve on his his free throw shooting. i'm fine with it though. he's still a guy that gives you 20/10/2 and not many Center today can boast that. He also has the ability to "turn it on" in the playoffs...something only the best players in the league can boast.

D-Leethal
10-26-2014, 09:21 PM
I think Howard is going to have big year. I don't see them making it to the WCF, but you never know if other contending teams out west come down with an injury.



Harden is a crafty offensive player but whatever con job the league has going on with him, that he only gets calls in the regular season, but when the playoffs start he's craftiness gets put on ice. I'm sure thats something Harden signed on for, so he has to deal with it, but I think thats one of the biggest reasons why the Rockets aren't going to get out of the West without a major injury to another team.

One of the biggest reasons Rockets won't make the WCF is because Harden has a secret wink wink deal with the league to get floptastic calls all year and there is a clause in the agreement that he will not get those calls in the playoffs, thus Rockets having no shot of getting past the second round?

Got it.

D-Leethal
10-26-2014, 09:32 PM
I can't see him becoming any more of an offensive threat than he already is but I can see him getting back to his defensive dominance for sure. Rockets will have to be a top 5 defensive team for him to get the recognition for it though.

Kashmir13579
10-26-2014, 10:50 PM
Never.

ewing
10-26-2014, 10:56 PM
i don't he will ever be the player he was in orlando. that doesn't mean he cant be a dominate player. i think Howard has slowed but he is still physically dominate, a heck of a defender in the 1/2, and impossible to handle when give the ball with space in his spots.

Tony_Starks
10-26-2014, 11:21 PM
D12 is what he is at this point. Will put up nice efficient numbers that won't really impact the game very much. Even in his Orlando days he was always mentally weak. Now he's physically diminished to a certain extent. If you're expecting him to be a dominant game changing center he will never make that leap. But he is still allstar caliber by these days Center standards and will keep the Rockets respectable.....

numba1CHANGsta
10-26-2014, 11:47 PM
nope, he's done.

c.c.
10-26-2014, 11:54 PM
Maybe if he had some better competition at his position. Dwight don't see any Center better than him so its gets a little boring to him then he loses sight on the main goal (championship). Same thing for Harden! So blame all those peasants beneath them for their lack of step taking.

Chrisclover
10-27-2014, 12:02 AM
even in his few down years, hes still the best center in the game.
how about the up-and-coming Cousins?

JasonJohnHorn
10-27-2014, 01:47 AM
The short answer is no. Howard already reached his full potential. The question is more can he return to it, not can he take it to the next level. Howard's most dominant years are likely already behind him.

His biggest problem is his inability to recognize his limits. He is not Hakeem. He does not have foot work, or a strong mid-range jumper. He is a great rebounder and defender who is great on the pick-and-roll and picking up point on offensive rebounds or in the post against weak defenders. The sooner he realizes that, the sooner he will be able help his team win. In Orlando, they had a shot, and his whining for the ball limited their potential.

I don't see that changing. I hope to see him return to his 2008-2011 form, but I'm not counting on it. This is his 10th year in the league. Anybody who hasn't reached their potential after 10 years, likely isn't going to reach it.

Iron24th
10-27-2014, 02:09 AM
26 13 2.8 blks last playoffs

Yeah in 6 games, what a big deal!

alexander_37
10-27-2014, 01:57 PM
nope, he's done.

He's done? Im sorry, I didn't know averaging just shy of 20 points a game with over 10 rebounds is done. Especially when you close out the season with a dominant playoff performance.

I wish I could be done for a year.

alexander_37
10-27-2014, 01:58 PM
D12 is what he is at this point. Will put up nice efficient numbers that won't really impact the game very much. Even in his Orlando days he was always mentally weak. Now he's physically diminished to a certain extent. If you're expecting him to be a dominant game changing center he will never make that leap. But he is still allstar caliber by these days Center standards and will keep the Rockets respectable.....

That is hilarious.

Tony_Starks
10-27-2014, 04:07 PM
That is hilarious.

Didn't they almost get swept out of the playoffs last year? I speak facts.

alexander_37
10-27-2014, 04:27 PM
Didn't they almost get swept out of the playoffs last year? I speak facts.

You provided literally zero facts. You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts.

ThuglifeJ
10-27-2014, 04:29 PM
Didn't they almost get swept out of the playoffs last year? I speak facts.

Lol.

Verbal Christ
10-27-2014, 05:23 PM
What a loaded thread. So people will post the stat line for the last meaningful games he played, and SPLAT! not good enough, it was only 6 games, against 'single coverage' (which is horseshit by the way, go back and look at the film)

What exactly is 'The Next Step' ? 30/20/5/5 funny. If his "full potential" is 20 points 10 rebounds and 3 blocks per game then I'll take it, which is what he was hovering around last year .. in a new system and getting healthy from back surgery. How many C's in the league are 20/10 guys? Yep, thought so.

Jamiecballer
10-27-2014, 05:30 PM
Didn't they almost get swept out of the playoffs last year? I speak facts.
I thought they lost in 6 which means one of us needs to check our "facts".

Tony_Starks
10-27-2014, 05:34 PM
You provided literally zero facts. You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts.

Fact # 1: the Rockets almost got swept out of the first round. I'm pretty sure that is a fact. I could be wrong......

Tony_Starks
10-27-2014, 05:38 PM
I thought they lost in 6 which means one of us needs to check our "facts".

Do you recall how that series played out? Some no name guy from the D League making a miracle three that prolonged the series....

Verbal Christ
10-27-2014, 05:49 PM
Do you recall how that series played out? Some no name guy from the D League making a miracle three that prolonged the series....

VS some "name brand" guy making a miracle 3 to cap the series ... cuz I'll just use your logic and say that IF the rockets win game 6 they go on to win game 7, then they play the spurs who they swept in the regular season, and then they go on to win the championship, duh ... facts son!

You Rockets/Harden/Howard bangers are priceless, bless your souls. LOL

Tony_Starks
10-27-2014, 05:56 PM
VS some "name brand" guy making a miracle 3 to cap the series ... cuz I'll just use your logic and say that IF the rockets win game 6 they go on to win game 7, then they play the spurs who they swept in the regular season, and then they go on to win the championship, duh ... facts son!

You Rockets/Harden/Howard bangers are priceless, bless your souls. LOL

He's a "name brand" guy? Lol Ok man. He was fresh out of the D League. And let the record show I never mentioned Harden, you bring that up trolling. Knock it off.

ThuglifeJ
10-27-2014, 05:57 PM
Do you recall how that series played out? Some no name guy from the D League making a miracle three that prolonged the series....

Not only that, but this was against a team who got killed by the Spurs in the next round..

Rockets just aren't playoffs built.

And you'd think for a franchise who had Hakeem Olajuwan (back when they were respected) they'd understand just how horribly robotic Dwight's movements are and how awful his offensive game is skillwise. Yet they continue to defend it till death, proving their bias.

Verbal Christ
10-27-2014, 06:00 PM
He's a "name brand" guy? Lol Ok man. He was fresh out of the D League. And let the record show I never mentioned Harden, you bring that up trolling. Knock it off.

Reading comprehension is fundamental bro. I was clearly talking about Lillard, but carry on with your blinders.

"knock it off" haha

Verbal Christ
10-27-2014, 06:01 PM
Yeahhhh okay .... defending the output of 20/10 is clearly bias becaue he isnt doing it with Dream shakes and silky 15 footers. Goofballs.

Tony_Starks
10-27-2014, 06:24 PM
Not only that, but this was against a team who got killed by the Spurs in the next round..

Rockets just aren't playoffs built.

And you'd think for a franchise who had Hakeem Olajuwan (back when they were respected) they'd understand just how horribly robotic Dwight's movements are and how awful his offensive game is skillwise. Yet they continue to defend it till death, proving their bias.

Exactly! Anybody that watches the game knows Dwight isn't developing any new moves. But I don't see why that should be such a huge insult. He's not a franchise player.

Chronz
10-28-2014, 02:40 AM
The short answer is no. Howard already reached his full potential. The question is more can he return to it, not can he take it to the next level. Howard's most dominant years are likely already behind him.

His biggest problem is his inability to recognize his limits. He is not Hakeem. He does not have foot work, or a strong mid-range jumper. He is a great rebounder and defender who is great on the pick-and-roll and picking up point on offensive rebounds or in the post against weak defenders. The sooner he realizes that, the sooner he will be able help his team win. In Orlando, they had a shot, and his whining for the ball limited their potential.

I don't see that changing. I hope to see him return to his 2008-2011 form, but I'm not counting on it. This is his 10th year in the league. Anybody who hasn't reached their potential after 10 years, likely isn't going to reach it.
Hakeem is actually a great example of someone who peaked later in his career. Dwight isn't as gifted but he can have a similar resurgence, I think we forget bigmen tend to take the longest to develop. I still believe in Dwight.

Chronz
10-28-2014, 02:44 AM
Not only that, but this was against a team who got killed by the Spurs in the next round..

Rockets just aren't playoffs built.

And you'd think for a franchise who had Hakeem Olajuwan (back when they were respected) they'd understand just how horribly robotic Dwight's movements are and how awful his offensive game is skillwise. Yet they continue to defend it till death, proving their bias.

Rockets would have loved to face the Spurs instead of the 1 team that exploits their main weaknesses. Dwights offensive game is ugly to watch but its mostly because he has a poor understanding of PASSING, his 1 on 1 moves are actually fairly decent and hes improved alot over the years as a scorer, his back injury is the only reason he didn't become the next great big man.

basketfan4life
10-28-2014, 03:30 AM
even in his few down years, hes still the best center in the game.

Completely agree.

alexander_37
10-28-2014, 03:40 AM
Not only that, but this was against a team who got killed by the Spurs in the next round..

Rockets just aren't playoffs built.

And you'd think for a franchise who had Hakeem Olajuwan (back when they were respected) they'd understand just how horribly robotic Dwight's movements are and how awful his offensive game is skillwise. Yet they continue to defend it till death, proving their bias.

The Rockets took the season series against the Spurs IIRC.... They actually matchup with the Spurs decently. Lillard just played out of his mind vs. the Rockets and was hitting mind boggling shots then got exposed vs. the spurs when his insane hot streak wore off.

alexander_37
10-28-2014, 03:42 AM
Hakeem is actually a great example of someone who peaked later in his career. Dwight isn't as gifted but he can have a similar resurgence, I think we forget bigmen tend to take the longest to develop. I still believe in Dwight.

Give it a rest no one ever gets better or learns anything new once they hit the NBA. Same way James Harden will never get any better at age 24.... Homer. :rolleyes:

ThuglifeJ
10-28-2014, 12:25 PM
The Rockets took the season series against the Spurs IIRC.... They actually matchup with the Spurs decently. Lillard just played out of his mind vs. the Rockets and was hitting mind boggling shots then got exposed vs. the spurs when his insane hot streak wore off.

Regular season series.

hahahahhahah. The Spurs would have swept the Rockets idc about matchups they are lightyears the better team than the ROCKETS.

But yeah Lillard just 'played out of his mind and hit mind boggling shots' is the only reason why Portland beat you guys. Only reason...

It was more on the fact that Houston is not a playoff team and Lillard didn't get exposed, they just weren't all that great either they just looked awesome playing a mediocre Houston team especially with Harden's defense and horrible shooting in the playoffs.

Dunkolicious
10-28-2014, 12:31 PM
He surely looked good in the preseason and I watched one of those NBA videos where they show how players prepare for the season and Howard looked good on that one.

Picked in my fantasy league as my second pick (had number 7 used it for carmelo and my secound rounder in a 14 team H2H went for Dwight) because besides harden and terence jones maybe, the rockets have downgraded on every position trading Lin and not resigning parsons.

Expecting a 20-15 DPOY season from dwightey boy

alexander_37
10-28-2014, 01:52 PM
Regular season series.

hahahahhahah. The Spurs would have swept the Rockets idc about matchups they are lightyears the better team than the ROCKETS.

But yeah Lillard just 'played out of his mind and hit mind boggling shots' is the only reason why Portland beat you guys. Only reason...

It was more on the fact that Houston is not a playoff team and Lillard didn't get exposed, they just weren't all that great either they just looked awesome playing a mediocre Houston team especially with Harden's defense and horrible shooting in the playoffs.

Im sorry didn't they make the playoffs? They did? So then by literal definition they were a playoff team.

Almost every game went to OT you act like they blew them out. Do you even watch basketball?

Also since when does thuglifej made up land where teams magically change in the playoffs > real life games that have already been played. Just because you think ( and are right in saying ) the Spurs are a better team that automatically means they would sweep them.

You are super ignorant to ignore MULTIPLE games that happened in the same season.

Saddletramp
10-28-2014, 02:10 PM
Im sorry didn't they make the playoffs? They did? So then by literal definition they were a playoff team.

Almost every game went to OT you act like they blew them out. Do you even watch basketball?

Also since when does thuglifej made up land where teams magically change in the playoffs > real life games that have already been played. Just because you think ( and are right in saying ) the Spurs are a better team that automatically means they would sweep them.

You are super ignorant to ignore MULTIPLE games that happened in the same season.

Most people have stopped arguing with this guy because with the exception of Vince Carter games, he clearly doesn't. Just roll your eyes and move on.

alexander_37
10-28-2014, 02:21 PM
Most people have stopped arguing with this guy because with the exception of Vince Carter games, he clearly doesn't. Just roll your eyes and move on.

Thank god, I thought it was just me.