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mightybosstone
10-19-2014, 12:48 PM
Voting for #38 has concluded and PSD's Official #38 NBA Player of all time is....

Gary Payton!!!

The List:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Magic Johnson
5. Shaquille O'neal
6. Tim Duncan
7. Hakeem Olajuwan
8. LeBron James
9. Larry Bird
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Bill Russell
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Moses Malone
14. Jerry West
15. Julius Erving
16. David Robinson
17. Charles Barkley
18. Kevin Garnett
19. Karl Malone
20. Dirk Nowitzki
21. Bob Pettit
22. Dwyane Wade
23. John Havlicek
24. Patrick Ewing
25. Scottie Pippen
26. Elgin Baylor
27. John Stockton
28. Walt Frazier
29. Rick Barry
30. Clyde Drexler
31. Isiah Thomas
32. Willis Reed
33. Kevin Durant
34. Kevin McHale
35. Bill Walton
36. George Gervin
37. Allen Iverson
38. Gary Payton

Sorry it took me a while to get this one posted. It's been a busy weekend for me. Everyone keep voting and debating, and don't forget that you can still nominate players as we get to the end of the top 50.

mightybosstone
10-19-2014, 12:56 PM
I'm voting again for Chris Paul. Here's the career resume numbers I posted in the previous thread, which are ridiculous for a player who's been in the league for four years:

Career 19/10/4/2 averages on .472/.357/.857 averages
Two-year peak of 22/11/5/3
2nd in career AST% (46.5)
3rd in career APG (9.9)
7th in career STL% (3.5)
3rd in career SPG (2.4)
6th in career PER (25.6)
1st in career ORtg (122.4)
4th in career WS/48 (.246)
51st in career WS (115.2)
34th in career OWS (84.8)
61st in career TS% (57.6%)
91st in career PPG (18.6)
7x All-Star
6x All-Defensive (4x 1st team, 2x 2nd team)
6x All-NBA (4x 1st team, 1x 2nd team, 1x 3rd team)

His resume is so strong, you could make a damn good case for him being the third greatest PG of all-time behind Magic and Oscar. The longer he keeps playing and the more deep playoff runs he adds to his legacy, the higher up this list he's going to move. I love Nash and I have tremendous amount of respect for Kidd, but they were never as good at any point in their careers as Paul has been in his prime. Period.

DoMeFavors
10-19-2014, 01:38 PM
Looking up and down the people we are able to vote for, first glance down Steve Nash caught my attention and it wasnt close.

Lets see 50-40-90 three times!
His style of play basically changed the NBA game after 05.
Assist leader multiple times
Took Suns to 61 and 62 wins
Two time MVP of the league
For a dude who wasnt gifted with extreme quickness or hops he really showed what hard work can do, thats why its Steve right here def.

tredigs
10-19-2014, 02:35 PM
By #45 1 vote will take it. Choose wisely MBT, we're counting on you.

Bruno
10-19-2014, 03:16 PM
I'm voting again for Chris Paul. Here's the career resume numbers I posted in the previous thread, which are ridiculous for a player who's been in the league for four years:

Career 19/10/4/2 averages on .472/.357/.857 averages
Two-year peak of 22/11/5/3
2nd in career AST% (46.5)
3rd in career APG (9.9)
7th in career STL% (3.5)
3rd in career SPG (2.4)
6th in career PER (25.6)
1st in career ORtg (122.4)
4th in career WS/48 (.246)
51st in career WS (115.2)
34th in career OWS (84.8)
61st in career TS% (57.6%)
91st in career PPG (18.6)
7x All-Star
6x All-Defensive (4x 1st team, 2x 2nd team)
6x All-NBA (4x 1st team, 1x 2nd team, 1x 3rd team)

His resume is so strong, you could make a damn good case for him being the third greatest PG of all-time behind Magic and Oscar. The longer he keeps playing and the more deep playoff runs he adds to his legacy, the higher up this list he's going to move. I love Nash and I have tremendous amount of respect for Kidd, but they were never as good at any point in their careers as Paul has been in his prime. Period.

this is true. for people who value peak here above other levels of criteria, I think Paul is the selection.

I can't give him a vote. Chris Paul is the best PG in the NBA, has been for a long time. I'm not hating on the guy. but he's played in 617 regular season games in his career. thats only 7.5 seasons worth of games. he's a lock to miss 12-20 games a season. he hasn't cracked into the second round yet. I'd personally hold off on a Paul vote for the time being just because of the 7.5 regular seasons played, no second round appearances, and the general lack of longevity and playoff excellence (his playoff production dropped last year relative to his regular season, not the first time its happened since joining the Clippers). he should retire higher than Kidd and Nash but as of today I don't think he's earned it, despite his excellence.

flea
10-19-2014, 03:37 PM
Nominate Parish

Raps18-19 Champ
10-19-2014, 04:25 PM
You should have cut the list off when Iverson made it.

mightybosstone
10-19-2014, 04:28 PM
By #45 1 vote will take it. Choose wisely MBT, we're counting on you.


You should have cut the list off when Iverson made it.

I don't need to keep posting these. I was under the impression that there are still people who give a ****. :shrug:

Raps18-19 Champ
10-19-2014, 04:31 PM
End it at 35 then just have a discussion thread about the top 35 and let people argue there.

mightybosstone
10-19-2014, 05:14 PM
End it at 35 then just have a discussion thread about the top 35 and let people argue there.
Sorry Raps, but you don't speak for the entirety of PSD. If everyone else agrees we should just end it, then I'll stop. But as long as there are still people who want to keep this going and debate the legacies of all-time greats, I'm going to keep posting them.

I agree that Iverson went too high, but that's just the way it went. Not enough people voted against him to prevent it from happening. But I'm not going to let one weak vote prevent this thing from happening as long as there are people who want to keep participating.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-19-2014, 05:17 PM
If only 7 people are voting though, does that not ruin the purpose of the threads. The same people aren't even voting are they?

todu82
10-19-2014, 06:16 PM
Bob Cousy. I'd probably add this at #40.

KnicksorBust
10-19-2014, 08:33 PM
I hope the list continues. I would love to see it go to #100. If anything, the further down the list we go the more diehard the voters.

This vote has to be Bob Cousy. He was the best PG in the world for a decade and won 6 rings. He was also a league MVP and dominated the assist category.

valade16
10-20-2014, 11:01 AM
I hope the list continues. I would love to see it go to #100. If anything, the further down the list we go the more diehard the voters.

This vote has to be Bob Cousy. He was the best PG in the world for a decade and won 6 rings. He was also a league MVP and dominated the assist category.

I think we're about to see a run on PGs like we saw a run of PFs earlier.

valade16
10-20-2014, 11:03 AM
Also, it's tough when doing this list because in addition to the longevity vs peak we also have legacy vs actual ability. Cousy clearly has the best resume left, but correct me if I'm wrong, couldn't he only dribble with one hand? I think it's very obvious there is no way Cousy could compete in the league today so at what point does their actual ability in comparison come into play?

Chronz
10-20-2014, 01:19 PM
Im starting to see the folly in conducting this during the off-season. At least in this fashion where so few votes can win it. I would have done a hiatus after the 30th guy named, picked this up again some other time.

Anyways, since I want to contribute more than just *****ing, I voted Tmac. On 2nd thought, I should have gone with Kidd, Nash and then Tmac.

KnicksorBust
10-20-2014, 02:50 PM
Also, it's tough when doing this list because in addition to the longevity vs peak we also have legacy vs actual ability. Cousy clearly has the best resume left, but correct me if I'm wrong, couldn't he only dribble with one hand? I think it's very obvious there is no way Cousy could compete in the league today so at what point does their actual ability in comparison come into play?

Realistically though, how can any of us reliably make that comparison? I've seen people say that Bill Russell would basically be Dennis Rodman or Ben Wallace. Then how can he possibly be #11 all-time if he is just the 60s version of them? This is why in all-time list I don't waste my time making ridiculous transformations through eras and I just focus on how they did against their peers. Against his peers, Bob Cousy dominated. A decade of All-NBA 1st Teams support this fact. Only Kobe and the Mailman have more than him. He's got the rings, individual accolades like an MVP and numerous assist titles to back him up.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-20-2014, 02:57 PM
God I didn't realize that Bill Walton played like 5 full seasons worth of games in the league.

valade16
10-20-2014, 03:01 PM
Realistically though, how can any of us reliably make that comparison? I've seen people say that Bill Russell would basically be Dennis Rodman or Ben Wallace. Then how can he possibly be #11 all-time if he is just the 60s version of them? This is why in all-time list I don't waste my time making ridiculous transformations through eras and I just focus on how they did against their peers. Against his peers, Bob Cousy dominated. A decade of All-NBA 1st Teams support this fact. Only Kobe and the Mailman have more than him. He's got the rings, individual accolades like an MVP and numerous assist titles to back him up.

I understand completely, that's why I said it's tough to sort of balance all these factors.

But then by that reasoning shouldn't Steve Nash clearly be above Chris Paul despite the fact that Chris Paul is probably the better player? Nash has 2 MVPs. I guess it's just tough to come up with a consistent methodology.

SLY WILLIAMS
10-21-2014, 12:38 AM
I went Dominque. I'm looking forward to voting for Bernard. :)

mrblisterdundee
10-22-2014, 01:38 AM
I'm voting again for Chris Paul. Here's the career resume numbers I posted in the previous thread, which are ridiculous for a player who's been in the league for four years:

Career 19/10/4/2 averages on .472/.357/.857 averages
Two-year peak of 22/11/5/3
2nd in career AST% (46.5)
3rd in career APG (9.9)
7th in career STL% (3.5)
3rd in career SPG (2.4)
6th in career PER (25.6)
1st in career ORtg (122.4)
4th in career WS/48 (.246)
51st in career WS (115.2)
34th in career OWS (84.8)
61st in career TS% (57.6%)
91st in career PPG (18.6)
7x All-Star
6x All-Defensive (4x 1st team, 2x 2nd team)
6x All-NBA (4x 1st team, 1x 2nd team, 1x 3rd team)

His resume is so strong, you could make a damn good case for him being the third greatest PG of all-time behind Magic and Oscar. The longer he keeps playing and the more deep playoff runs he adds to his legacy, the higher up this list he's going to move. I love Nash and I have tremendous amount of respect for Kidd, but they were never as good at any point in their careers as Paul has been in his prime. Period.

I think people are taking into account overall careers. So far, Chris Paul has had a little over half of Gary Payton's career, and hasn't made it as far as him in the playoffs. By the time he gets to 15 years in the league, his status as at least a top-5 point guard will be cemented.

KnicksorBust
10-22-2014, 07:50 AM
I think people are taking into account overall careers. So far, Chris Paul has had a little over half of Gary Payton's career, and hasn't made it as far as him in the playoffs. By the time he gets to 15 years in the league, his status as at least a top-5 point guard will be cemented.

You should vote for Bob Cousy. A decade of All-NBA 1st teams, 6 rings, and a league MVP can't be wrong.

SLY WILLIAMS
10-22-2014, 11:20 AM
God I didn't realize that Bill Walton played like 5 full seasons worth of games in the league.

I tried to tell everyone multiple times. I liked Bill a lot but he really only had around 3 good real seasons. If voting on his college career than he was great but his NBA career was not because of his severe foot injuries.

KnicksorBust
10-22-2014, 08:29 PM
I tried to tell everyone multiple times. I liked Bill a lot but he really only had around 3 good real seasons. If voting on his college career than he was great but his NBA career was not because of his severe foot injuries.

Why not vote for Bob Cousy? His longevity (12 straight all-nba teams + a league MVP) is undeniable.

SLY WILLIAMS
10-23-2014, 02:49 PM
Why not vote for Bob Cousy? His longevity (12 straight all-nba teams + a league MVP) is undeniable.

I have heard he was a great player in his day but I never feel comfortable voting for guys I did not see play. Thats why my votes will be biased against some older players. It is not fair for them but I do not know a fair way to go regarding guys I never saw play.

DemarDerozan
10-25-2014, 11:18 AM
I stopped reading the list when I saw Clyde Drexler ahead of Zeke. Too many clowns on here.

SLY WILLIAMS
10-25-2014, 11:41 AM
I disagreed with the position of a few of the top 25 players but the list is only for fun so I would not worry about it.