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View Full Version : When Kobe retires in 2 yrs, do you think he will rank higher or lower than LeBron?



P&GRealist
10-17-2014, 08:19 PM
It's pretty much a given that Kobe has won his last title. The guy can barely play 6 games in a season. Sure, he might pass Michael in regular season scoring, but his team ain't making the playoffs these next 2 yrs. And any individual awards for Kobe is a long shot.

LeBron as 4x as many league MVPs as Kobe and as many Finals MVPs as Kobe. Kobe has him beat in the All Star MVP and Scoring Title departments (which mean nothing), but that's basically pretty much it.


LeBron is the better scorer, defender, passer, rebounder, more skillful, more exciting, better teammate, all around player, ambassador for the league, role model and person.

So does Kobe rank higher or lower than LeBron at the end of these next 2 yrs?

goingfor28
10-17-2014, 08:22 PM
Higher

Jamiecballer
10-17-2014, 08:26 PM
Two years from now? Lower.

abe_froman
10-17-2014, 08:34 PM
probably lower

Cal827
10-17-2014, 08:45 PM
I think that he'll be lower, as more people will realize where Lebron is going to be. But I can see a bunch of people still low rating him, because they don't like him or love Kobe. Some will continue to say that Lebron needed help to win the titles (and how Kobe won with "nothing around him").

You know, general Prosportsdaily ****

... Or since Kobe's next stop will be the HOF, people will continue to celebrate his career lol

ILLUSIONIST^248
10-17-2014, 09:34 PM
Kobe retires in the top 3, Lebron about 7.

Duncan = Donkey
10-17-2014, 10:02 PM
Def Lower, Laker fan wont accept it though.

5ass
10-17-2014, 10:49 PM
Def Lower, Laker fan wont accept it though.

Exactly this.

IKnowHoops
10-18-2014, 12:24 AM
Kobe retires in the top 3, Lebron about 7.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh::laugh:

FlashBolt
10-18-2014, 12:31 AM
The LeBron-riders are getting out of hand.. which is expected when the best player is LeBron. This is Kobe.. Unless LeBron wins another ring as a FMVP, there is zero chance he's above Kobe IMO. That longevity just can't be ignored. Stop riding LeBron. He has a good 7 years and if he keeps it up, he's easily surpassing Kobe. Just not now.

numba1CHANGsta
10-18-2014, 01:06 AM
The OP is an idiot

P&GRealist
10-18-2014, 01:45 AM
The OP is an idiot

Agree

Goose17
10-18-2014, 02:13 AM
Lower. He's already lower than Lebron on the all time list imo.

Saddletramp
10-18-2014, 02:15 AM
So I guess we have another two years of daily Kobe threads from P&G? Super awesome.

FraziersKnicks
10-18-2014, 02:29 AM
He's already lower than LeBron all-time so there's no way he can surpass him unless he wins 2 rings in his last years.

amos1er
10-18-2014, 05:49 AM
Has any player in the top ten of All-Time ever failed in the finals with as much help as Lebron has had...

Don't see how Lebron cracks the top ten unless he proves he can win without having an unfairly stacked team relative to the competition around him.

akia83
10-18-2014, 05:53 AM
Has any player in the top ten of All-Time ever failed in the finals with as much help as Lebron has had...


Kobe did in 2004

Goose17
10-18-2014, 06:08 AM
Has any player in the top ten of All-Time ever failed in the finals with as much help as Lebron has had...

Don't see how Lebron cracks the top ten unless he proves he can win without having an unfairly stacked team relative to the competition around him.

Yes. Kobe. Out of all the top 10 players of all time. I would say Kobe has had some of the worst playoff performances, definitely worse than anything Lebron had.


The 2008 finals game 6 vs Boston

The Lakers are blown out 131-92.

Kobe goes 7 for 22 (31%) with 22 points, 1 assist and four turnovers.


The '04 Finals vs Detroit.

The Lakers were tied 1-1 with the Pistons and Kobe had three awful performances back to back. Lakers lost all of those games.


Game 3: 4 for 13 from the field (30%), 5 assists, 4 turnovers.

Game 4: 8 for 25 from the field(32%), 2 assists and 3 turnovers.

Game 5: 7 for 21(33%) from the field, 4 assists and 3 turnovers.



And that's just finals appearances. Never mind all the awful games he had in the playoffs outside of the finals. Game 7 vs Phoenix and game 6 against the Spurs comes to mind.



People only seem to remember Kobes good games, not the games where he choked epically. And for some reason it's the other way around with Lebron, everyone looks at his worst games and ignores his best.

Interestingly. Kobes worst playoff performance is far worse than Lebrons worst.

amos1er
10-18-2014, 06:13 AM
Kobe did in 2004

:laugh:

Slava Medvedenko was the starting PF. Everyone was injured by the finals and the Kobe/Shaq feud was out of control. Not to mention Detroit set the record for a finals free throw disparity. Funny coincidence that Kobe was on fire that year until the finals where he only averaged 2 FT's per game after leading the regular season and playoffs up until then. Oh and the bogus rape charges happened to be that year as well. Coincidence... Perhaps... I doubt it though.

Goose17
10-18-2014, 06:18 AM
:laugh:

Slava Medvedenko was the starting PF. Everyone was injured by the finals and the Kobe/Shaq feud was out of control. Not to mention Detroit set the record for a finals free throw disparity. Funny coincidence that Kobe was on fire that year until the finals where he only averaged 2 FT's per game after leading the regular season and playoffs up until then. Oh and the bogus rape charges happened to be that year as well. Coincidence... Perhaps... I doubt it though.

Lol... making excuses now huh? He choked. Worse than Lebron ever has. Accept it and get over it.

What's his excuse for 2008?

amos1er
10-18-2014, 06:19 AM
Yes. Kobe. Out of all the top 10 players of all time. I would say Kobe has had some of the worst playoff performances, definitely worse than anything Lebron had.


The 2008 finals game 6 vs Boston

The Lakers are blown out 131-92.

Kobe goes 7 for 22 (31%) with 22 points, 1 assist and four turnovers.


The '04 Finals vs Detroit.

The Lakers were tied 1-1 with the Pistons and Kobe had three awful performances back to back. Lakers lost all of those games.


Game 3: 4 for 13 from the field (30%), 5 assists, 4 turnovers.

Game 4: 8 for 25 from the field(32%), 2 assists and 3 turnovers.

Game 5: 7 for 21(33%) from the field, 4 assists and 3 turnovers.



And that's just finals appearances. Never mind all the awful games he had in the playoffs outside of the finals. Game 7 vs Phoenix and game 6 against the Spurs comes to mind.



People only seem to remember Kobes good games, not the games where he choked epically. And for some reason it's the other way around with Lebron, everyone looks at his worst games and ignores his best.

Interestingly. Kobes worst playoff performance is far worse than Lebrons worst.

None of that compares to Lebron in 2011. Lol.

When Lebron has a playoff run as good as Kobe did in 2001 come talk to me.

Kobe has had far better playoff runs against far greater competition. I spite you to find me a playoff series where Lebron has performed as good as Kobe has against teams as good as these...

-2001 Western Conference Semifinals versus Kings: 4 gms, 43.3 mpg, 35.0 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.25 spg, .473 fg%. Lakers win 4-0.
-2001 Western Conference Finals versus Spurs: 4 gms, 42.0 mpg, 33.3 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.0 apg, 1.5 spg, .514 fg%. Lakers win 4-0.
-2010 Western Conference Finals versus Suns: 6 gms, 41.7 mpg, 33.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 8.3 apg, .521 fg%. Lakers win 4-2.
-2009 Western Conference Finals versus Nuggets: 6 gms, 34.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 6.2 apg, 1.5 spg, .481 fg%. Lakers win 4-2.
-2008 Western Conference Semifinals versus Jazz: 6 gms, 41.3 mpg, 33.2 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.2 apg, .491 fg%. Lakers win 4-2.
-2008 Western Conference Finals versus Spurs: 5 gms, 40.4 mpg, 29.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.6 spg, .533 fg%. Lakers win 4-1

amos1er
10-18-2014, 06:20 AM
Lol... making excuses now huh? He choked. Worse than Lebron ever has. Accept it and get over it.

What's his excuse for 2008?

Ehem... Ehem... The 2011 Finals say hi. :)

Goose17
10-18-2014, 06:25 AM
Ehem... Ehem... The 2011 Finals say hi. :)

Kobes worst playoff game is FAR worse than Lebrons worst. That's not even up for debate.

Kobe choked HORRIBLY. Not just in the finals either but repeatedly throughout the playoffs.

amos1er
10-18-2014, 06:31 AM
Kobes worst playoff game is FAR worse than Lebrons worst. That's not even up for debate.

Kobe choked HORRIBLY. Not just in the finals either but repeatedly throughout the playoffs.

Really, Kobe played worse than Lebron did in 2011... News to me.

Do you really want to go down this road. Perhaps you should quit while your still behind.

amos1er
10-18-2014, 06:32 AM
http://www.canishoopus.com/2011/6/14/2222836/anatomy-of-a-4th-quarter-lebron-james

Goose17
10-18-2014, 06:54 AM
Really, Kobe played worse than Lebron did in 2011... News to me.

Do you really want to go down this road. Perhaps you should quit while your still behind.

Yes. He did.

Kobes stat line from the 2004 finals vs Detroit:

22PPG, 2.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, 3.6TO FG% .38, 3PT% .17, TS% .45

Lebrons stat line for the 2011 finals vs Dallas:

17.8 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 6.8 APG, 4 TO, FG% .47, 3pt% .32 TS% .54


How is Kobes performance not worse? They're both pretty ugly but Kobes is CLEARLY worse.

Goose17
10-18-2014, 07:02 AM
You could even say Kobes performance in 2008 was comparably awful. (Lebron 2011 is in brackets for comparison sake)

25 PPG (17.8), 4.7 RPG (7.2), 5 APG (6.8), 3.9 TO (4), 40% FG (47), 32% 3pt (32), TS% .50 (54).


Lets stop pretending shall we? Admit that you're wrong about this and we can all move on.

amos1er
10-18-2014, 07:29 AM
Yes. He did.

Kobes stat line from the 2004 finals vs Detroit:

22PPG, 2.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, 3.6TO FG% .38, 3PT% .17, TS% .45

Lebrons stat line for the 2011 finals vs Dallas:

17.8 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 6.8 APG, 4 TO, FG% .47, 3pt% .32 TS% .54


How is Kobes performance not worse? They're both pretty ugly but Kobes is CLEARLY worse.

To the novice eye at first glance, yes it would appear Kobe's are worse if all you did was read the box score. If you actually watched the games and knew the context, one would see that Lebron's folly was far worse.

First of all, Kobe's Lakers team was all banged up except for him and Shaq. Derrick Fisher was actually the third best player on the Lakers that series. It got so bad they had to start Slava Medvedenko at one point. Malone was injured, Payton was injured, George was injured and Fox was injured. Not to mention they could not get a call to save their lives once in Detroit. Kobe averaged a series low in FT attempts in that series after leading the league in both the regular season and the playoffs. Additionally, that series set a record that stands to this day for FT disparity between two teams in the NBA finals. Call it what you like, but that is just very poor officiating at the end of the day especially coming into that game the Lakers led the league in FT attempts and Detroit was at the bottom of the league in FT attempts.

Detroit didn't even average enough points per game to beat the Lakers going into that series, but somehow managed to get more FT attempts than the league leaders enough to set a new finals record that stands to this day in order to generate the points their offense lacked going into the series. The Pistons team that years only generated 90 points per game (bottom of the league) while the Lakers only allowed 94 points per game (tops in the league) that season. That finals series was a complete outlier and one of the worst officiated series if not the worst in NBA history. Phil Jackson commented on it in his tell all book that seasons and recently came out and said that Detroit flopped their way to a title that year.

171 FTA for Detroit who going into that series were bottom of the league and only 111 FTA for the Lakers who were top in the league. The Lakers that year were victim to a flurry of injuries right before the finals as well as some of the worst officiating known to man. With all that taken into account, it's hard to blame Kobe for what transpired... Especially considering that the NBA did not want their Finals MVP that year to be an accused rapist.

Additionally, the only game the Lakers won in that series was thanks to Kobe in game 2 where he played brilliantly and hit the game tying three to send it into overtime to eventually get the W.

Now lets look at the 2011 finals... Lebron had perhaps the worst fourth quarter performance in NBA history for a Superstar. Dwayne Wade had the Heat in position to win game 2 at home in the fourth quarter before Lebron completely disappeared. In fact, Wade had that series in the bag if not for Lebron's complete no show in multiple fourth quarters where he averaged 2.2 ppg on 18% shooting for the first five games. It was the biggest meltdown the NBA had ever seen for a star of James's magnitude.

Just watching those games, no one could argue that it was Lebron who cost his team that championship. With the 2004 debacle, there were many other factors that came into play other than Kobe's subpar performance. While in 2011 it was nearly 100% on Lebron. Wade stepped up, Bosh stepped up and the rest of the team stepped up. Kobe won the game for his team in game two while it was Lebron who lost the game for his team in game two. You really have to take your blinders off for this one. I don't think there are many Lebron fans who would stake their reputations on Lebron performing better in 2011 than Kobe in 2004.

The main factor in this debate is that the Lakers were never really in a position to win those games in Detroit due to injuries and poor officiating. The Heat were in position to win that series at many points, especially in game two... It was Lebron who solely let them down whereas Kobe didn't get much help at all nor was he ever in a position to win like Lebron was. Those fourth quarters were just pitiful. http://www.canishoopus.com/2011/6/14...r-lebron-james

You really have to look past the box score on this one... Though as a Lebron fan I know that is a difficult concept in and of itself.

amos1er
10-18-2014, 07:39 AM
You could even say Kobes performance in 2008 was comparably awful. (Lebron 2011 is in brackets for comparison sake)

25 PPG (17.8), 4.7 RPG (7.2), 5 APG (6.8), 3.9 TO (4), 40% FG (47), 32% 3pt (32), TS% .50 (54).


Lets stop pretending shall we? Admit that you're wrong about this and we can all move on.

Lakers were facing a juggernaut in Boston that year and with no HCA at that. Pau completely let Kobe down that year. In comparison, The Heat were the overwhelming juggernaut favorites that year and both of Lebron's Hall of Fame wingmen came to play... It was him who didn't show up. Kobe was at least still the best player on his team throughout that defeat... Lebron was the third best player. Why do you chose to ignore the fourth quarter stats...

Clearly you must see that this was not nearly the fail the 2011 Finals were. Or are you just another Box Score Willy who can't really see anything past raw numbers. I know Lebron fans are big on stats, but this is ridiculous. Lakers weren't even expected to make the second round in 2008 let alone the finals. Come on now... Surely you can do better than this. Injury to Bynum and Ariza. 2/5 of the Laker starters out, Pau didn't show and Kobe was completely targeted by Thibs defensive schemes. Dallas didn't even need to focus in on Lebron defensively because he was a complete no show.

Goose17
10-18-2014, 07:41 AM
Who said I'm a Lebron fan? You assume because I think he's better than Kobe (which he clearly is) that I'm a fan of him? I'm a fan of neither.

And yes, you have to look passed the box score but your excuses are laughable at best. He only had the most dominant center in the game? What a shame. That must have been so difficult for him only having the most dominant big man that has ever existed.

And what about 2008? What's your excuse there?

You mention Lebrons 4th quarter. What about Kobes ENTIRE second half during the conference finals against phoenix. He scored one point in two quarters of play.

Man, laker/kobe fans are hands down the worst sports fans in the world. So deluded, completely living in an alternate reality. Come join us in the real world when you're ready.


Kobes worst game is worse than Lebrons. End of discussion.

amos1er
10-18-2014, 07:44 AM
What about this post that you ignored...


Kobe has had far better playoff runs against far greater competition. I spite you to find me a playoff series where Lebron has performed as good as Kobe has against teams as good as these...

-2001 Western Conference Semifinals versus Kings: 4 gms, 43.3 mpg, 35.0 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.25 spg, .473 fg%. Lakers win 4-0.
-2001 Western Conference Finals versus Spurs: 4 gms, 42.0 mpg, 33.3 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.0 apg, 1.5 spg, .514 fg%. Lakers win 4-0.
-2010 Western Conference Finals versus Suns: 6 gms, 41.7 mpg, 33.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 8.3 apg, .521 fg%. Lakers win 4-2.
-2009 Western Conference Finals versus Nuggets: 6 gms, 34.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 6.2 apg, 1.5 spg, .481 fg%. Lakers win 4-2.
-2008 Western Conference Semifinals versus Jazz: 6 gms, 41.3 mpg, 33.2 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.2 apg, .491 fg%. Lakers win 4-2.
-2008 Western Conference Finals versus Spurs: 5 gms, 40.4 mpg, 29.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.6 spg, .533 fg%. Lakers win 4-1

Care to comment on this or at least try to come up with a series where Lebron performed as good against equal or greater competition... Still waiting...

amos1er
10-18-2014, 08:04 AM
Who said I'm a Lebron fan? You assume because I think he's better than Kobe (which he clearly is) that I'm a fan of him? I'm a fan of neither.

I don't care who your a fan of... You have completely failed at countering any of the points I made. Noting more than a mere Box Score Willy just as I thought.


And yes, you have to look passed the box score but your excuses are laughable at best. He only had the most dominant center in the game? What a shame. That must have been so difficult for him only having the most dominant big man that has ever existed.

Shaq was clearly a shell of what he was in the first three championships by 2004... He was hardly worthy of being called the most dominant center of the game that series... Not to mention he couldn't get a call either. Chauncey Billups went to the line almost as many times as he did even with all the intentional fouls he got. Lebron had far more help in Wade and Bosh that finals series than Kobe had with Shaq and his busted up teammates.


And what about 2008? What's your excuse there?

Boston were the favorites and had HCA in 2008 while Miami were the favorites and had HCA in 2011. Additionally, Lebron had far more help from his number one and two options in Wade and Bosh than Kobe had in Pau and Odom.


You mention Lebrons 4th quarter. What about Kobes ENTIRE second half during the conference finals against phoenix. He scored one point in two quarters of play.

Nice red herring... Thought we were talking about the 2004 and 2011 finals. How about I bring up Lebron's performance against Boston in 2010 if you want to bring up quitting on your team. Though I will leave that for another discussion and another day.


Man, laker/kobe fans are hands down the worst sports fans in the world. So deluded, completely living in an alternate reality. Come join us in the real world when you're ready.

Heh... Ad hominem insults... The the last resort of a losing argument.


Kobes worst game is worse than Lebrons. End of discussion.

You have stated this a few times now, but have used nothing other than your own personal opinions and hallow blanket statements to back it up. Facts please...

-Kobe24-TJ19-
10-18-2014, 10:15 AM
top 100 maybe

curtcocaine
10-18-2014, 10:20 AM
Goose smdh

TheIlladelph16
10-18-2014, 10:26 AM
I certainly think Kobe will be ranked lower than Lebron. They are already basically neck and neck in all-time rankings at this point, and I expect another MVP and at least one more championship in the next few years. It's really a clusterf*ck to me right now between Duncan, Kobe and Lebron. Two have the team accolades, longevity and production and the other has peak dominance and individual accolades.

Hotone1401
10-18-2014, 11:01 AM
Don't listen to that idiot Goose. He may not be Lebron's biggest fan but he surely is Kobe's biggest hater. Anyways, he got owned this round. See ya around Goose.

bucketss
10-18-2014, 11:05 AM
kobe is already below lebron, if he will retire in 2 years on this horrible lakers squad how can he possibly surpass james.

Goose17
10-18-2014, 11:20 AM
Don't listen to that idiot Goose. He may not be Lebron's biggest fan but he surely is Kobe's biggest hater. Anyways, he got owned this round. See ya around Goose.

LOL... oh look, another die hard laker homer and Kobe dick rider. I wonder what your opinion will be on the topic of... oh wait, I think we already know.

Notice how everyone that isn't a Kobe fan boy thinks Lebron is the better player? That alone should tell you something.

And how have I been "owned" ? He is yet to produce any evidence, just excuses, it's pathetic. Kobe wouldn't make excuses and yet his biggest fans do it all the time. The only reason you perceive me to be getting "owned" is because his argument panders to your Kobe homerism, he could use any wishy washy argument he wants, as long as it's in favour of Kobe, you would support it 100%.



And I don't hate Kobe at all, I hate how Laker fans overrate him. He's top 10 all time, but he's not top 5, that's foolish.

Goose17
10-18-2014, 11:34 AM
I don't care who your a fan of... You have completely failed at countering any of the points I made.


Clearly you do care, you were trying to use that to make a point and you failed miserably. Also YOU are the one that is failing at countering points, it's just excuses. No facts, no analysis, just excuses.




Shaq was clearly a shell of what he was in the first three championships by 2004... He was hardly worthy of being called the most dominant center of the game that series... Not to mention he couldn't get a call either.

What? He averaged 26 points and 10 rebounds in that series on 63%. He wasn't the same as he was earlier in his career but he was still one of the best centers in the game at that point, and he didn't choke, Kobe did though. Interesting.





Boston were the favorites and had HCA in 2008 while Miami were the favorites and had HCA in 2011. Additionally, Lebron had far more help from his number one and two options in Wade and Bosh than Kobe had in Pau and Odom.


We're not talking about Lebron we're talking about Kobe. And Boston were the favourites? Boo hoo. Vegas had Miami as the favourites this year and the Spurs killed them. You're acting like Pau and Odom are scrubs, Pau is a HoF caliber player, I would take Pau over Bosh every day of the week. Odom was still a reliable double-double guy back then also. There's no excuse here, Kobe choked.




Nice red herring... Thought we were talking about the 2004 and 2011 finals. How about I bring up Lebron's performance against Boston in 2010 if you want to bring up quitting on your team. Though I will leave that for another discussion and another day.


Go ahead, I'll just bring up Kobes game 6 vs San Antonio.





Heh... Ad hominem insults... The the last resort of a losing argument.


Or just blatant honesty. I call it how I see it.





You have stated this a few times now, but have used nothing other than your own personal opinions and hallow blanket statements to back it up. Facts please...

It is my opinion and I'm right :) I've given you the facts, you've given me nothing. Name one game in the post season Lebron has played where his production was worse than Kobes worst game.

I never said Lebron was the better player in the playoffs or anything, I'm saying Kobe's worst game is worse than Lebrons worst. And factually, there's no evidence to disprove this. If there is, please provide it and stop making excuses.



-2001 Western Conference Semifinals versus Kings: 4 gms, 43.3 mpg, 35.0 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.25 spg, .473 fg%. Lakers win 4-0.
-2001 Western Conference Finals versus Spurs: 4 gms, 42.0 mpg, 33.3 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.0 apg, 1.5 spg, .514 fg%. Lakers win 4-0.
-2010 Western Conference Finals versus Suns: 6 gms, 41.7 mpg, 33.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 8.3 apg, .521 fg%. Lakers win 4-2.
-2009 Western Conference Finals versus Nuggets: 6 gms, 34.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 6.2 apg, 1.5 spg, .481 fg%. Lakers win 4-2.
-2008 Western Conference Semifinals versus Jazz: 6 gms, 41.3 mpg, 33.2 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.2 apg, .491 fg%. Lakers win 4-2.
-2008 Western Conference Finals versus Spurs: 5 gms, 40.4 mpg, 29.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.6 spg, .533 fg%. Lakers win 4-1


Care to comment on this or at least try to come up with a series where Lebron performed as good against equal or greater competition... Still waiting..



Sure...


Against OKC and against the Spurs were comparable talent wise to most of those teams, better than some even.


But even if you don't believe that (you won't, you're a homer) it doesn't matter, we're not talking about who had the BEST game(s) we're talking about who had the worst, and Kobe's low points are worse than any of Lebrons.

Goose17
10-18-2014, 11:35 AM
You will never change your opinion. That much is obvious, so I'm done with this discussion. Continue to be a hater, I'll continue to keep a level head and evaluate things properly ;)

Jamiecballer
10-18-2014, 12:05 PM
Make a list of the ten worst playoff games both guys have had and you will have no choice but to admit Lebron has played better and more consistently in the playoffs.

Teeboy1487
10-18-2014, 12:11 PM
I think as a regular season performer in terms of all around play and efficiency, Kobe is already lower. However, I don't think Lebron will ever be as dominant as a scorer as Kobe was in terms of accumulating points. They are two different players playing different positions and different roles. I will never understand this comparison. At the end of the day, I will never understand why their legacies are so intertwined. It makes no sense to me. As a Kobe fan, I don't care where Lebron lands on the all time list. All I care about is enjoying Kobe the few years left we will have of him. It's been a historic ride as a fan.

lkingratedr
10-18-2014, 12:15 PM
jordan kobe lebron in that order and it will never change

curtcocaine
10-18-2014, 12:55 PM
I think as a regular season performer in terms of all around play and efficiency, Kobe is already lower. However, I don't think Lebron will ever be as dominant as a scorer as Kobe was in terms of accumulating points. They are two different players playing different positions and different roles. I will never understand this comparison. At the end of the day, I will never understand why their legacies are so intertwined. It makes no sense to me. As a Kobe fan, I don't care where Lebron lands on the all time list. All I care about is enjoying Kobe the few years left we will have of him. It's been a historic ride as a fan.
This two different roles. Kobe as a sg has the ability to carry a team offensively. Also earlier in his career he was a damn good defender.

Bron at sf chooses to be more of an all around player who flourishes with above average talent.

curtcocaine
10-18-2014, 12:59 PM
Kobe to kwame brown to the playoffs nuff said.

curtcocaine
10-18-2014, 01:00 PM
Kwame had a game where he had 7 turnovers and 6 rebounds lmfao. Kobe > Labron

DarkKnight
10-18-2014, 01:19 PM
Kobe >>>> Lebron all day everyday.... Btw wasn't it Lebron against the Celtics were he quit on his team ? Than ran to Miami

Jamiecballer
10-18-2014, 01:22 PM
jordan kobe lebron in that order and it will never change
You realize by saying "it will never change" you've put everyone on notice that all your future posts should be disregarded because your mind was made up a long time ago...

Hotone1401
10-18-2014, 01:31 PM
You realize by saying "it will never change" you've put everyone on notice that all your future posts should be disregarded because your mind was made up a long time ago...

This. I think the guy got carried away. While I believe Lebron will surpass Kobe when his career is done, at this moment it's stupid to say he already has.

Hotone1401
10-18-2014, 01:34 PM
You will never change your opinion. That much is obvious, so I'm done with this discussion. Continue to be a hater, I'll continue to keep a level head and evaluate things properly ;)

Both of you guys are haters and completely bias one way or the other. It would be much better if neither of you commented on either player ever again but we all know by now that's not going to happen no matter what you say. You guys have nothing better to do with your sad lives than hate on these two all-time greats.

curtcocaine
10-18-2014, 01:36 PM
Both of you guys are haters and completely bias one way or the other. It would be much better if neither of you commented on either player ever again but we all know by now that's not going to happen no matter what you say. You guys have nothing better to do with your sad lives than hate on these two all-time greats.
Lol

curtcocaine
10-18-2014, 01:38 PM
This. I think the guy got carried away. While I believe Lebron will surpass Kobe when his career is done, at this moment it's stupid to say he already has.

This pretty much. If labron wins four straight ( not saying he has to win four straight) then how can u say he hasn't surpassed Kobe? F it that would put him past Mike.

bucketss
10-18-2014, 01:57 PM
Kobe >>>> Lebron all day everyday.... Btw wasn't it Lebron against the Celtics were he quit on his team ? Than ran to Miami

wasn't it kobe who quit against the suns, than demanded a trade. luckily for the lakers kobe wasn't a free agent at the time or else he would have been outta there.

DarkKnight
10-18-2014, 02:06 PM
wasn't it kobe who quit against the suns, than demanded a trade. luckily for the lakers kobe wasn't a free agent at the time or else he would have been outta there.

Tough answering the question? I know it's a tough one. Btw Kobe >>> Lequeen ( better ) ?

DarkKnight
10-18-2014, 02:08 PM
Anyone have that Nike footage of that kid dunking on Lebron? I know it was destroyed by you know who

Goose17
10-18-2014, 02:35 PM
Make a list of the ten worst playoff games both guys have had and you will have no choice but to admit Lebron has played better and more consistently in the playoffs.

This^ that's all I'm saying.

Goose17
10-18-2014, 02:37 PM
Both of you guys are haters and completely bias one way or the other. It would be much better if neither of you commented on either player ever again but we all know by now that's not going to happen no matter what you say. You guys have nothing better to do with your sad lives than hate on these two all-time greats.

Already told you. I don't hate Kobe. I just dislike Kobe fanboys that overrate Kobe. Just as much as I dislike Lebron fan boys that overrate Lebron.

RocketLoc80
10-18-2014, 02:47 PM
Anyone have that Nike footage of that kid dunking on Lebron? I know it was destroyed by you know who

This Lebron bashing coming from a Dallas Cowgirl fan? Let`s see your boy Romo come close to accomplishing what Lebron has

Goose17
10-18-2014, 02:54 PM
Anyone have that Nike footage of that kid dunking on Lebron? I know it was destroyed by you know who

You do know that "kid" is in the NBA now right? Lol... Jordan Crawford bro. Damn casual fans. :rolleyes:

Hotone1401
10-18-2014, 03:55 PM
Already told you. I don't hate Kobe. I just dislike Kobe fanboys that overrate Kobe. Just as much as I dislike Lebron fan boys that overrate Lebron.

I don't care what you say lol. How do you expect me to take your word when your entire history of posts in regards to Kobe has always shown a clear bias and hate towards the man? Your funny.

Hotone1401
10-18-2014, 03:55 PM
Already told you. I don't hate Kobe. I just dislike Kobe fanboys that overrate Kobe. Just as much as I dislike Lebron fan boys that overrate Lebron.

I don't care what you say lol. How do you expect me to take your word when your entire history of posts in regards to Kobe has always shown a clear bias and hate towards the man? Funny guy.

sammyvine
10-18-2014, 04:10 PM
dont you guys ever get bored of these lebron vs kobe debates? Its like the same questions just phased differently.

Hawkeye15
10-18-2014, 04:12 PM
dont you guys ever get bored of these lebron vs kobe debates? Its like the same questions just phased differently.

jesus, thank you. I am looking at the main board, and it's basically a LeBron/Kobe debate strung across 10 threads.

Goose17
10-18-2014, 04:24 PM
I don't care what you say lol. How do you expect me to take your word when your entire history of posts in regards to Kobe has always shown a clear bias and hate towards the man? Funny guy.

How can you interpret labeling him as one of the top 10 greatest players to have ever lived as hate? That's foolish.

Goose17
10-18-2014, 04:25 PM
jesus, thank you. I am looking at the main board, and it's basically a LeBron/Kobe debate strung across 10 threads.

Off season.

nickdymez
10-18-2014, 04:34 PM
Lol... making excuses now huh? He choked. Worse than Lebron ever has. Accept it and get over it.

What's his excuse for 2008?
That's a ****in lie

Raps18-19 Champ
10-18-2014, 05:56 PM
He's already lower than Lebron right now.

But in 2 years, I saw people will be divided since Kobe would have like 20 years under his belt and Lebron is going to be like 31-32 and will have 5-8 more years ahead of him. By the time Lebron retires, he'll easily be above Kobe in most logical people's eyes.

amos1er
10-18-2014, 06:18 PM
He's already lower than Lebron right now.

But in 2 years, I saw people will be divided since Kobe would have like 20 years under his belt and Lebron is going to be like 31-32 and will have 5-8 more years ahead of him. By the time Lebron retires, he'll easily be above Kobe in most logical people's eyes.

False dilemma fallacy. Just because people don't happen to share your opinion, doesn't make them illogical. It just means they disagree. BTW, you have not made any sort of convincing argument to prove otherwise. You like many others on here feel that stating your personal opinion over and over and over again somehow makes it true. Who are these logical people you speak of... Other PSD Kobe haters... Lol... Not really the most credible sources.

Most of the NBA's greatest minds still feel Kobe is ahead of Lebron career wise. I have never heard an analyst, player, coach, or owner come out and say that Lebron is already past Kobe... I have only heard that on here in fact. In the general public sphere, it's quite the opposite that is agreed upon. Most think it foolish to crown Lebron ahead of Kobe already. Even Charles Barkely came out recently and told all the Lebron worshipers to calm down with their premature crowning of Lebron ahead of Kobe.

Ya all have been prematurely crowning him since before he even came into the league. That's honestly why we all can't stand the guy... It's his fans that are super obnoxious. Most internet poll now a days are in overwhelming favor of the fact that Lebron ***** are far worse than any Kobe ***** out there. You guys are just too much. No one in their right mind that isn't a complete homer fan boy honestly believes Lebron is top ten right now. I don't know for the life of me how all this got started. Last season he was not even voted in the top fifteen all-time, now all of the sudden after this season when failing once a again in the finals, you all reward him by moving him up to the number eight spot. It makes no logical sense. How can someone move up eight places against very stiff top notch all-time great competition when they failed in the finals and couldn't even make in an interesting series. He did nothing to warrant moving up in the rankings and you all act like he just won the title again.

What player in NBA history actually gets praise for not winning a title with the best team in the league. You all honestly celebrate this guy for losing. It's completely maddening. There truly are no fans of a single player in sports that are more obnoxious, delusional, self gratifying, full of it, and just plain rotten than Lebron James fans. I honestly feel bad for the guy to have you all as fans because it just makes people target him and dislike him. You are all the reason, not him. Come back to reality please!!! News flash people... Lebron James still has a long way to go before he is considered to be top ten of all-time. Deal with it and stop making up BS.

ILLUSIONIST^248
10-18-2014, 06:19 PM
dont you guys ever get bored of these lebron vs kobe debates? Its like the same questions just phased differently.

jesus, thank you. I am looking at the main board, and it's basically a LeBron/Kobe debate strung across 10 threads.

Oh stop hawkeye, you live for these threads.

ILLUSIONIST^248
10-18-2014, 06:20 PM
He's already lower than Lebron right now.

But in 2 years, I saw people will be divided since Kobe would have like 20 years under his belt and Lebron is going to be like 31-32 and will have 5-8 more years ahead of him. By the time Lebron retires, he'll easily be above Kobe in most logical people's eyes.

False dilemma fallacy. Just because people don't happen to share your opinion, doesn't make them illogical. It just means they disagree. BTW, you have not made any sort of convincing argument to prove otherwise. You like many others on here feel that stating your personal opinion somehow makes it true. Who are these logical people you speak of... Other PSD Kobe haters... Lol... Not really the most credible sources.

Most of the NBA's greatest minds still feel Kobe is ahead of Lebron career wise. I have never heard an analyst, player, coach, or owner come out and say that Lebron is already past Kobe... I have only heard that on here in fact. In the general public sphere, it's quite the opposite that is agreed upon. Most think it foolish to crown Lebron ahead of Kobe already. Even Charles Barkely came out recently and told all the Lebron worshipers to calm down with their premature crowning of Lebron ahead of Kobe.

Ya all have been prematurely crowning him since before he even came into the league. That's honestly why we all can't stand the guy... It's his fans that are super obnoxious. Most internet poll now a days are in overwhelming favor of the fact that Lebron ***** are far worse than any Kobe ***** out there. You guys are just too much. No one in their right mind that isn't a complete homer fan boy honestly believes Lebron is top ten right now. I don't know for the life of me how all this got started. Last season he was not even voted in the top fifteen all-time, now all of the sudden after this season when failing once a again in the finals, you all reward him by moving him up to the number eight spot. It makes no logical sense. How can someone move up eight places against very stiff top notch all-time great competition when they failed in the finals and couldn't even make in an interesting series. He did nothing to warrant moving up in the rankings and you all act like he just won the title again.

What player in NBA history actually gets praise for not winning a title with the best team in the league. You all honestly celebrate this guy for losing. It's completely maddening. There truly are no fans of a single player in sports that are more obnoxious, delusional, self gratifying, full of it, and just plain rotten than Lebron James fans. I honestly feel bad for the guy to have you all as fans because it just makes people target him and dislike him. You are all the reason, not him. Come back to reality please!!! News flash people... Lebron James still has a long way to go before he is considered to be top ten of all-time. Deal with it and stop making up BS.

This sums it up pretty nicely.

Goose17
10-18-2014, 06:50 PM
For the record. I think relying on what old players and analyst say is a terrible way to form an opinion. Just because they played doesn't mean they can evaluate talent in an unbiased way. There's a reason Charlotte drafted so poorly with Jordan making the decisions.

However. I find this funny...


No one in their right mind that isn't a complete homer fan boy honestly believes Lebron is top ten right now.

What about Magic Johnson? He said "LeBron is top 10 and moving up fast, and he can maybe surpass Michael as the greatest who ever played. He’s the smartest player in the game.”


What about Isiah Thomas? He said "James is in the top three with Jordan and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who we don’t give the credit he deserves. He dominated the NBA for two decades.”


What about Scottie Pippen? He said "Lebron is the most complete player ever and hes going to retire as the best player to ever play.”


What about Rick Carlisle? He said "Lebron could end up being the very best, we’ll just have to see. A lot of that’s yet to be written. He’s top five all time for sure, if you’re asking my opinion"


Jack Ramsay and Marv Albert said he's top 10. As did Charles Barkley.



Are none of those people in their right mind? Or are they just homer fan boys? You know since you care so much about what others think.

amos1er
10-18-2014, 08:25 PM
Clearly you do care, you were trying to use that to make a point and you failed miserably. Also YOU are the one that is failing at countering points, it's just excuses. No facts, no analysis, just excuses.

Lol. This from a guy who does nothing other than copy and paste box score data and repeatedly state the same bias and flawed opinion over and over again as if that will somehow make it true.


What? He averaged 26 points and 10 rebounds in that series on 63%. He wasn't the same as he was earlier in his career but he was still one of the best centers in the game at that point, and he didn't choke, Kobe did though. Interesting.

A far cry from the 35 and 15 he was putting up in the first three-peat. I never said he choked btw... Just that he wasn't the dominant force at that point you were making him out to be. All I said is that Lebron had more help from Wade and Bosh that series than Kobe had from Shaq... Go check the numbers and watch the games... Wade was ballin and it was Lebron's lack of execution in the fourth quarter (especially in game two) why his team lost. Not to mention the supporting cast was healthier and much better all around in that they had multiple healthy guys who could shoot 40%+ from three point land. Kobe's got less help from Shaq than Lebron had from Bosh and Wade and much less help from his supporting cast. Again, the third best player on the Lakers was Fish that series and he didn't even average close to double figures. The defense was able to focus in on Kobe a lot more than it was Lebron as a result and Kobe just didn't get the protection from the officials he had gotten throughout the regular season and playoffs that season. Lebron did not have the defense focused in on him nearly as much and he got the calls Kobe didn't. Still, he let his red hot Heat team down in five consecutive fourth quarters. That's the difference.



We're not talking about Lebron we're talking about Kobe. And Boston were the favourites? Boo hoo. Vegas had Miami as the favourites this year and the Spurs killed them. You're acting like Pau and Odom are scrubs, Pau is a HoF caliber player, I would take Pau over Bosh every day of the week. Odom was still a reliable double-double guy back then also. There's no excuse here, Kobe choked.

Boston had Tom Thibodeau at the time who is perhaps the greatest defensive coaching mind of his generation. Not to mention Boston was much tougher than Dallas. Pau had a miserable series and didn't even play as well for a second option as Bosh did as a third option. Kobe didn't have anyone on his team who stepped up as much as Wade did that year. Kobe was still the best player on his team while Lebron was the third best player on his team.


Go ahead, I'll just bring up Kobes game 6 vs San Antonio.

What about all four of Lebron's games against San Antonio in 2007. Or Lebron's games 1-6 of last years finals. Without a miracle three from Allen and rebound from Bosh after two misses in crunch time from James the Series was all but wrapped up for San Antonio. Or Dwayne Wade winning game four for him before he came in the fourth quarter and stat padded against San Antonion's D team. One of the weakest Finals MVP performances I've ever witnessed for sure. Compare that to how Kobe performed against a better younger Spurs team back in 2001 and 2008 and it's not even a contest anymore.

Let me educate you further using an old post of mine on the subject matter...


To put Lebron in the same conversation as Jordan is blasphemous. Jordan never lost in the finals and never needed to form a super team consisting of a top five player and a top fifteen player along with 5 guys who could shoot over 40% from three just to beat some of the weakest competition in NBA history in the east and some mediocre competition in the finals. All with questionable calls the whole way through. You are only as great as your competition and Lebron hasn't really had all that much compared to greats like Jordan and Kobe. Especially considering the super team he constructed when he went ring chasing.

Lebrons advanced stats are more due to the system he runs than him being a great individual player. Nash did the same thing when playing for D'Antoni in a specialized system taylor made to augment his strengths. Nash put up his best statistical seasons when running this unique system, but when playing in a slow down traditional half court offense, he was not nearly the same player statistically. You are all kidding yourselves if you think Lebron could put up the same PER and advanced stats running the triangle with a legit rebounding center. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but the Heat as a team are last in the league in rebounding. Not impressive at all. Lebron barely made it past the Spurs even with HCA. Lucky for him he was able to coast to HCA throughout the playoffs due to his cakewalk of a regular season schedule in the weak east with by far the best supporting cast in the NBA. Put the Heat in the west and the Spurs in the east and the Spurs would easily have HCA in the finals and would have most likely dispatched the Heat in six games. Kobe performed much better individually and only needed 5 games to defeat a better younger Spurs team in the 2008 WCF with a lesser supporting cast than Lebron had in this years finals. Lets rewind to 2001 and see how Kobe did against San Antonio's twin towers back when Duncan was having one of his best seasons and compare it to Lebron's performance in this years finals against a broken down aged Spurs team. That ought to be good for a laugh.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...13_finals.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._2008_WCF.html

What do you think about the difference in numbers that Kobe put up against younger better Spurs teams on road to success with weaker supporting casts than Lebron had?

2008 WCF

A prime Kobe with a weaker supporting cast than Lebron's 2013 Heat against a younger tougher Spurs team...

Kobe 29.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 90.9 FT%, 33.3 3PT%, 53.3 FG%. Most importantly...won the series in 5 games with his second best player in Gasol only contributing 13.2 ppg and his third option Odom only contributing 12.8 ppg.

2013 Finals

A prime Lebron vs. a much older Spurs and weaker Spurs team than Kobe played back in the 2008 WCF...

25.3 ppg, 10.9 rpg, 7.0 apg, 79.5 FT%, 35.3 3PT%, 44.7 FG%. Barely won by the skin of their teeth in 7 games. Lebron received more help all around from his supporting cast as well. His second option Wade contributed 19.6 ppg and his third option Bosh contributed 11.9 ppg. Both shot significantly better from the field as well. Wade 47.6 FG% and Bosh 46.2 FG% compared to Gasol 44.6 FG% and Odom 40.4 FG%. Clearly Lebron's big three are in a whole other universe that what Kobe had to work with.

In addition, his fourth and fifth options in Allen and Chalmers also produced more than Kobe's fourth and fifth options in Farmar and Radmanovic. Both Allen and Chalmers contributed double figure scoring. Allen with 10.6 ppg on 54% from the field and from 3 and Chalmers with 10.6 ppg on 39% from the field, but 40.6% from 3. In 2008 Farmar (Kobe's fourth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 45.7% from the field and 41.7% from 3. Radmanovic (fifth option) contributed 8.4 ppg on 63.3% from the field, but only 27.3% from 3. Clearly Kobe outperformed Lebron with far less help against a better version of the same team.

And please don't throw in Lebron's empty rebounding and assist numbers because as I said earlier, they are a product of the system he runs and the players he choses to surround himself with. In 2008 Kobe had two guys in Gasol and Odom who both averaged 9.6 rpg in the WCF. Thus there are less rebounds for Kobe to grab, but his team is better off clearly. Lebron may lead the Heat in rebounding, but thats mainly due to the fact that there are no real rebounders on his team and who cares anyways because the Heat are last in the NBA in rebounding. It's not too impressive when you can put up the best rebounding stats on a team that is last in the NBA...talk about not sacrificing personal glory for the good of the team.

As for the assists, Kobe played in the triangle which is not assist friendly at all, but is better for winning games and getting all around passing from the team. Lebron plays a pg on offense which is more designed as a iso drive and kick to his many 3 point snippers. Pretty easy to rack up assists when you have 5 guys on your team who can shoot over 40% from three and the system is designed to boost your stats. A luxury Kobe or MJ never had. Lebron in the triangle would not be able to produce those kind of assist numbers...especially without his 3 point snippers.

There you have it, the proof is in the pudding. Kobe would have won the title that year and had six rings had he been lucky enough to face the Spurs in the finals like Lebron did. Unfortunately, he had to face a far better team in the Celtics. The likes of which Lebron has never faced. Sorry, but it's all about how you do against the top competition, not about how you pad your stats in the regular season against the weaker teams in the weakest conference of all time. Kobe clearly performed better when the stakes were up against the better competition. That is the true measure of greatness.



Or just blatant honesty. I call it how I see it.

Yet even more opinion rubbish.


It is my opinion and I'm right :) I've given you the facts, you've given me nothing. Name one game in the post season Lebron has played where his production was worse than Kobes worst game.

LMAO!!! You formulate an opinion and then feel you are qualified to determine whether you are right or wrong. How very closed minded of you. So much for little things called proof and evidence right. Thankfully our justice system doesn't operate under the same principles or their would be total anarchy.


I never said Lebron was the better player in the playoffs or anything, I'm saying Kobe's worst game is worse than Lebrons worst. And factually, there's no evidence to disprove this. If there is, please provide it and stop making excuses.

If we were just looking at box scores you would be correct. However, using actual context, there is overwhelming evidence to prove otherwise... You simply choose not to admit it. I have provided it many times over. If we went by stats, D-Rob would be better than Magic, Duncan, Hakeem, and Bird. Good thing we can use context to see past these raw numbers.



Sure...


Against OKC and against the Spurs were comparable talent wise to most of those teams, better than some even.

LMAO... A Green OKC team that choked under the pressure and a much older and weaker Spurs team than anything Kobe ever faced in his prime. Is this really the best you can do. Kobe performed better against much better and younger Spurs teams than Lebron barely was lucky enough to scathe by the skin of his teeth in last years finals. Try again.


But even if you don't believe that (you won't, you're a homer) it doesn't matter, we're not talking about who had the BEST game(s) we're talking about who had the worst, and Kobe's low points are worse than any of Lebrons.

Stating the same opinion over and over again doesn't make it any more factual.

SPURSFAN1
10-18-2014, 08:32 PM
Anyone actually picking Lebron? lol 2/5

Munkeysuit
10-18-2014, 08:35 PM
Let's just say IF Lebron wins the next 2 NBA titles that would only give him 4 rings, Kobe has 5 (General NBA fans opinion) SERIOUSLY THOUGH? Lebron is ranked higher than Kobe RIGHT NOW!

amos1er
10-18-2014, 08:42 PM
For the record. I think relying on what old players and analyst say is a terrible way to form an opinion. Just because they played doesn't mean they can evaluate talent in an unbiased way. There's a reason Charlotte drafted so poorly with Jordan making the decisions.

So we should take your word for it then. You still have yet to explain why we should. No it's not a good way to formulate an opinion, it just to happens that they mostly happen to agree with the one I already formulated.


However. I find this funny...

Glad you are entertained.


What about Magic Johnson? He said "LeBron is top 10 and moving up fast, and he can maybe surpass Michael as the greatest who ever played. He’s the smartest player in the game.”

Proof. Where did Magic specifically say Lebron was already top ten.


What about Isiah Thomas? He said "James is in the top three with Jordan and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who we don’t give the credit he deserves. He dominated the NBA for two decades.”

Source. Link. This sounds like a misquote to me.


What about Scottie Pippen? He said "Lebron is the most complete player ever and hes going to retire as the best player to ever play.”

Source. He never said that. Another misquote. He said Lebron could go down as the best to play the game. Big difference.


What about Rick Carlisle? He said "Lebron could end up being the very best, we’ll just have to see. A lot of that’s yet to be written. He’s top five all time for sure, if you’re asking my opinion"

He said if Lebron wins a title in Cleveland and even then I would not go as far as top five. Dude is smoking something. So you managed to find one opinion. As I said before... Most don't feel that way.


Jack Ramsay and Marv Albert said he's top 10. As did Charles Barkley.

Proof.

Barkley did say this however... http://www.lakersnation.com/charles-barkley-discusses-kobe-jordan-after-lebrons-third-final-loss/2014/06/16/


Are none of those people in their right mind? Or are they just homer fan boys? You know since you care so much about what others think.

Why should I then care what you think. Honestly I view you as just some Lebron fan boy who is jealous of Kobe honestly. Nothing you have said to me has convinced me otherwise.

amos1er
10-18-2014, 08:43 PM
Let's just say IF Lebron wins the next 2 NBA titles that would only give him 4 rings, Kobe has 5 (General NBA fans opinion) SERIOUSLY THOUGH? Lebron is ranked higher than Kobe RIGHT NOW!

Says the guy with a Lebron Avatar. :rolleyes:

hidalgo
10-18-2014, 09:12 PM
he won't retire in 2 years. not a chance. will not happen

jerellh528
10-18-2014, 10:12 PM
Higher for sure And that probably will never change. Kobe has always been and always will be a better basketball player. Lebron is great at doing what he does best, being a stat stuffer.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-18-2014, 10:26 PM
False dilemma fallacy. Just because people don't happen to share your opinion, doesn't make them illogical. It just means they disagree. BTW, you have not made any sort of convincing argument to prove otherwise. You like many others on here feel that stating your personal opinion over and over and over again somehow makes it true. Who are these logical people you speak of... Other PSD Kobe haters... Lol... Not really the most credible sources.

Most of the NBA's greatest minds still feel Kobe is ahead of Lebron career wise. I have never heard an analyst, player, coach, or owner come out and say that Lebron is already past Kobe... I have only heard that on here in fact. In the general public sphere, it's quite the opposite that is agreed upon. Most think it foolish to crown Lebron ahead of Kobe already. Even Charles Barkely came out recently and told all the Lebron worshipers to calm down with their premature crowning of Lebron ahead of Kobe.

Ya all have been prematurely crowning him since before he even came into the league. That's honestly why we all can't stand the guy... It's his fans that are super obnoxious. Most internet poll now a days are in overwhelming favor of the fact that Lebron ***** are far worse than any Kobe ***** out there. You guys are just too much. No one in their right mind that isn't a complete homer fan boy honestly believes Lebron is top ten right now. I don't know for the life of me how all this got started. Last season he was not even voted in the top fifteen all-time, now all of the sudden after this season when failing once a again in the finals, you all reward him by moving him up to the number eight spot. It makes no logical sense. How can someone move up eight places against very stiff top notch all-time great competition when they failed in the finals and couldn't even make in an interesting series. He did nothing to warrant moving up in the rankings and you all act like he just won the title again.

What player in NBA history actually gets praise for not winning a title with the best team in the league. You all honestly celebrate this guy for losing. It's completely maddening. There truly are no fans of a single player in sports that are more obnoxious, delusional, self gratifying, full of it, and just plain rotten than Lebron James fans. I honestly feel bad for the guy to have you all as fans because it just makes people target him and dislike him. You are all the reason, not him. Come back to reality please!!! News flash people... Lebron James still has a long way to go before he is considered to be top ten of all-time. Deal with it and stop making up BS.

When you look at the facts, Lebron is easily in the trajectory of being better than Kobe by the time he retires.

I never once said people are illogical if they don't think Kobe>Lebron now either. I said when they are both retired, and it's stupid to think Lebron doesn't have a good chance of passing Kobe. If people emphasize using team success to weigh down Lebron when it comes individual rankings, that easily proves they are being illogical. You literally admitted that you disqualify LEbron for losing in the finals but don't disqualify those who lost in earlier rounds. That not illogical enough for you?

He's already a better player and more acomplshied individual player. All Kobe literally has on Lebron is rings and longevity (and even if Lebron ends up with less rings, you can still make the argument he'd be better than Kobe).

Also, OMG LOL at you trying to bash people for spewing their opinions like you have never done that. Get your ego out of the way.

FlashBolt
10-18-2014, 10:57 PM
Higher for sure And that probably will never change. Kobe has always been and always will be a better basketball player. Lebron is great at doing what he does best, being a stat stuffer.

Stat-stuffer is an excuse as to why LeBron is great. So, Magic was a stat stuffer.. along with Oscar Robertson.. and anyone who has insane numbers? Great logic! Please tell me, what is the definition of a stat-stuffer? Someone who plays an all-around game at a high level consistently? Please, how do you differentiate stat-stuffer vs just being great?

Saddletramp
10-18-2014, 11:56 PM
Higher for sure And that probably will never change. Kobe has always been and always will be a better basketball player. Lebron is great at doing what he does best, being a stat stuffer.

I don't think that you know what a stat stuffer is.

Jamiecballer
10-19-2014, 12:05 AM
I don't think that you know what a stat stuffer is.
He's a kobe fan, if the 4 of them on PSD are any indication he probably didn't complete highschool.

amos1er
10-19-2014, 12:19 AM
When you look at the facts, Lebron is easily in the trajectory of being better than Kobe by the time he retires.

Based on what.


I never once said people are illogical if they don't think Kobe>Lebron now either. I said when they are both retired, and it's stupid to think Lebron doesn't have a good chance of passing Kobe. If people emphasize using team success to weigh down Lebron when it comes individual rankings, that easily proves they are being illogical. You literally admitted that you disqualify LEbron for losing in the finals but don't disqualify those who lost in earlier rounds. That not illogical enough for you?

So your saying it's stupid to disagree with you. Way to convey your opinion in a logical way. Lebron had no challenge in the earlier rounds because his teams were always so stacked compared to the eastern conference. The only tough teams he faced were in the west and he only had to do it for one series. Therefore it's tough to say if he would even make the finals with a Western Conference regular season schedule and post season schedule. I can only go on the data that is available. If he faced the Spurs in the Semi's instead of the finals then he would have lost either way. The eastern conference taints his playoff winning percentage so therefore the argument you are making is not very applicable. A lot of the time Kobe never got credit for his performances against the elite western conference teams and lost out on finals MVP awards because Shaq dominated against weak eastern teams. This is true especially in 2001. It works both ways you know. That's why we have to look at everything in context.


He's already a better player and more acomplshied individual player.

Again... Based on what.


All Kobe literally has on Lebron is rings and longevity (and even if Lebron ends up with less rings, you can still make the argument he'd be better than Kobe).

You talk as if rings aren't the most important thing in a players resume. Lol. To me Kobe's rings were also much more impressive than Lebron's. Kobe didn't have nearly the help Lebron had nor did he have the ease of the weak eastern conference to get him there. Also, Kobe was the dude that got his teams over the hump in the clutch moments of the game, while it was Ray Allen, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh who showed up in the clutch more often than not.


Also, OMG LOL at you trying to bash people for spewing their opinions like you have never done that. Get your ego out of the way.

I'm not intending to bash anyone. I just get frustrated at the level of undeserved praise Lebron has gotten throughout his career. Lets just let him earn things before we go and crown him. I have never seen such hype hysteria towards a player like I have seen for Lebron. He literally moved up in rank after losing and underachieving in this years finals. Not only that, his team of apologists backs him at every failure and acts like he just won the Nobel Prize even when he loses. Now that is good marketing. I wish I could be praised for losing.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-19-2014, 12:49 AM
Based on what.

Umm, look at their careers. Do I really have to explain to you?




So your saying it's stupid to disagree with you.

I never once said this. Stop making stuff up.


Way to convey your opinion in a logical way. Lebron had no challenge in the earlier rounds because his teams were always so stacked compared to the eastern conference. The only tough teams he faced were in the west and he only had to do it for one series. Therefore it's tough to say if he would even make the finals with a Western Conference regular season schedule and post season schedule. I can only go on the data that is available. If he faced the Spurs in the Semi's instead of the finals then he would have lost either way. The eastern conference taints his playoff winning percentage so therefore the argument you are making is not very applicable. A lot of the time Kobe never got credit for his performances against the elite western conference teams and lost out on finals MVP awards because Shaq dominated against weak eastern teams. This is true especially in 2001. It works both ways you know. That's why we have to look at everything in context.

You say to look at things in context yet you only want to side with Kobe. Remember when you bashed Lebron for taking his team to the finals in 2007 when that in itself was an accomplishment more than a failure because that team should never have been there. Remember when you bashed Lebron for the 2014 finals when he was the only one actually doing something on that team? Context my ***.



Again... Based on what.

There's no point of getting into it. I'm not going to say any different than what others have already argued and you've already made up your mind on the topic, to which you have already admitted to unfairly.




You talk as if rings aren't the most important thing in a players resume.

I never said this. Try again.


Lol. To me Kobe's rings were also much more impressive than Lebron's. Kobe didn't have nearly the help Lebron had nor did he have the ease of the weak eastern conference to get him there. Also, Kobe was the dude that got his teams over the hump in the clutch moments of the game, while it was Ray Allen, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh who showed up in the clutch more often than not.

Lol. Just because in name value, Bosh and Wade>Shaq doesn't mean that was reality. Reality is, shaq outproduced Wade and bosh in the Finals. Also, you've proven you're not going with logic when you say "showed up more often than not". Lol Lebron was there just as must as the other guys. Just because Ray Allen got a game tying shot doesn't mean Lebron's 9 min run wasn't clutch in itself before it. Of course Allen's was more important but let's use some common sense here and not disregard what Lebron did against the Thunder and the Spurs.




I'm not intending to bash anyone.

And I never once bashed anyone either


I just get frustrated at the level of undeserved praise Lebron has gotten throughout his career. Lets just let him earn things before we go and crown him. I have never seen such hype hysteria towards a player like I have seen for Lebron.
Lol at undeserved praise. Also, because people give him praise for something (whether you agree to it or not), you want to rank him lower than what he is (to which you've already admitted to)?

I hate fanbases as well but it does not at all affect my opinion on players. You've already proven than you have let it affect you.


He literally moved up in rank after losing and underachieving in this years finals. Not only that, his team of apologists backs him at every failure and acts like he just won the Nobel Prize even when he loses. Now that is good marketing.

Tell me who moved him up in rank based on the finals alone? Also, HE didn't lose it for the Heat this year. And his team failed him more than Lebron failed the Heat, whether you want to believe that or not. You can't point out he underachived (which he did) but disregard that everyone else underachieved even worse.


I wish I could be praised for losing.

You do realize this is "bashing" right? You want to call me out for saying something that will get a rise out of people but you can do the same thing? Bwahahaha.



We get it. You don't like Lebron's fans so in turn, you don't like Lebron. But if you are really letting other people's opinions affect your opinion on Lebron, it's a sad state to be in. And considering you always bring up his fans to discredit Lebron whenever possible, it seems we are already at that point.

Hawkeye15
10-19-2014, 01:38 AM
LeBron is already on the tier system of mine, with Kobe. At age 30. He easily passes him shortly, if he hasn't already.

LeBron will end up top 5 ever. Kobe is top 10-12 ever.

DemarDerozan
10-19-2014, 02:19 AM
Higher... And it's not even close.

Unless Lebron discovers a time machine, stays with cleveland his whole career and discovers how to make his teammates better. Probably not going to happen. 5 for 7 >>>> 2 for 5. And yes Wade/Bosh=Shaq. I don't care who you are... But a top thee and top ten MVP going in for four years is greater than Shaq entering the end of his prime.

Kobe won two chips without Shaq. The question really becomes... Could BronBron win a chip without two other all NBA talents?

I guess we'll find out with head case Kyrie and great but injury prone KLOVE. I really hope the latter has a Bill Walton type championship season otherwise LeDouche is ledoomed.

Goose17
10-19-2014, 02:41 AM
So we should take your word for it then. You still have yet to explain why we should. No it's not a good way to formulate an opinion, it just to happens that they mostly happen to agree with the one I already formulated.



Glad you are entertained.



Proof. Where did Magic specifically say Lebron was already top ten.



Source. Link. This sounds like a misquote to me.



Source. He never said that. Another misquote. He said Lebron could go down as the best to play the game. Big difference.



He said if Lebron wins a title in Cleveland and even then I would not go as far as top five. Dude is smoking something. So you managed to find one opinion. As I said before... Most don't feel that way.



Proof.

Barkley did say this however... http://www.lakersnation.com/charles-barkley-discusses-kobe-jordan-after-lebrons-third-final-loss/2014/06/16/



Why should I then care what you think. Honestly I view you as just some Lebron fan boy who is jealous of Kobe honestly. Nothing you have said to me has convinced me otherwise.

LOL if you want the source just Google the quotes you lazy sod. Do you not know how to use Google? You're something special mate.

tredigs
10-19-2014, 02:46 PM
:laugh:

Slava Medvedenko was the starting PF. Everyone was injured by the finals and the Kobe/Shaq feud was out of control. Not to mention Detroit set the record for a finals free throw disparity. Funny coincidence that Kobe was on fire that year until the finals where he only averaged 2 FT's per game after leading the regular season and playoffs up until then. Oh and the bogus rape charges happened to be that year as well. Coincidence... Perhaps... I doubt it though.

Lmao. What is your conspiracy theory, exactly? That the league was trying to sabotage its biggest rising star and cast a black shadow over the organization as a whole?

amos1er
10-19-2014, 06:15 PM
LOL if you want the source just Google the quotes you lazy sod. Do you not know how to use Google? You're something special mate.

Usually the person siting quotes posts links as well. It's pretty customary honestly... And good etiquette at that. Your quotes just seemed a bit fudged, that's all. Would like to see what the actual quote was and I don't feel like looking them all up. Some of them I do know already, but still feel that you should site them properly for other posters who may view the debate. No need for insults either... Not need to take any of this personally, I don't.

Jamiecballer
10-19-2014, 06:29 PM
Anybody who recognizes championships are a team achievement pretty much agrees Lebron will easily surpass Kobe. I'm not sure this joke of a thread needs to remain open.

StacyJr5000
10-19-2014, 07:10 PM
Kobe 5 rings> Lebron 2 rings Period. LBJ has jumped from team to team seeking post season success whereas Kobe has been with one team his entire career.

FraziersKnicks
10-19-2014, 07:16 PM
Kobe 5 rings> Lebron 2 rings Period. LBJ has jumped from team to team seeking post season success whereas Kobe has been with one team his entire career.

Thank god you joined just to post such wisdom

jerellh528
10-19-2014, 07:17 PM
Shouldn't the question be, "when Lebron retires in 5 to 7 years will be be higher or lower than Kobe?" Because the way the question is currently worded makes it seem like Kobe is the one playing catch up, which obviously is not the case. James has his work cut out for him. Fg% and mvps only tell a small part of the story of what it means to be an all timer.

bagwell368
10-19-2014, 07:23 PM
Kobe retires in the top 3, Lebron about 7.

hahahahahahhaa

Kobe is maybe 12th (with a strong breeze at his back - that volume shooting crap really hurts him).

His play these next two years can only hurt his rate stats. No of course.

bagwell368
10-19-2014, 07:27 PM
Kobe 5 rings> Lebron 2 rings Period. LBJ has jumped from team to team seeking post season success whereas Kobe has been with one team his entire career.

KC Jones has more rings then Kobe, is he better?

Is Kobe all but done? Yes

Is Lebron? No

Kobe would have more rings if he didn't chase Shaq out of LA LA land - what a stupid idiot....

StacyJr5000
10-19-2014, 07:41 PM
Kobe was the primary carrier for the lakers though. On KC Jones' celtics, bill russell was the main guy. Big difference BAGWELL368

StacyJr5000
10-19-2014, 07:46 PM
No offense but K.C Jones sucked as a player LOL

StacyJr5000
10-19-2014, 07:50 PM
Kobe Bryant was/still is a good player.

Jeffy25
10-19-2014, 07:50 PM
Def Lower, Laker fan wont accept it though.

This.

Everyone else is aware that Lebron has basically already caught up to Kobe, and he has years left. After another two years of prime, or near prime Lebron, and it won't even be a discussion anymore. If Kobe even plays decently for the next two years, it's not going to matter, Lebron will easily out pace him (assuming health).

Only people who aren't admitting this are Lakers fans, everyone else has basically moved on from this tired debate. We know Lebron is the best since Jordan at this point.

Jeffy25
10-19-2014, 07:54 PM
Kobe was the primary carrier for the lakers though. On KC Jones' celtics, bill russell was the main guy. Big difference BAGWELL368
Kobe was only the best player on the Lakers for one of his rings, fwiw.

Gasol was better in 2010, and arguably just as good in 2009. And it's not even a debate that Shaq was the key player from 00-02 for those rings, he was a head better than Kobe each year.

Kobe needed help to win his rings, no doubt about it, and he absolutely was not the primary carrier for his first three rings. His last two....Gasol was just as valuable and just as productive as Kobe.

StacyJr5000
10-19-2014, 07:58 PM
Pau Gasol was not better than Kobe. Thats asinine. Gasol was a valuable piece, but Kobe carried that team so lets just stop that. Even on the shaq-led teams, Kobe was still a MAJOR CONTRIBUTOR. He still avg 25-28 ppg 5-6 asts, 4-5 rbs pg. Be forreal Jeffy25

StacyJr5000
10-19-2014, 08:01 PM
Lebron is known for post season debacle so just stop it. If anything Tim Duncan is closer than LBJ. Check the ranking dude on basketball reference dot com or go to google top 500 basketball players of all time. Prosports wont allow me to post the website

toekneele
10-19-2014, 08:36 PM
When it's all said and done I say Lebron will without a doubt be beyond kobe

Jeffy25
10-19-2014, 08:43 PM
Lebron is known for post season debacle so just stop it. If anything Tim Duncan is closer than LBJ. Check the ranking dude on basketball reference dot com or go to google top 500 basketball players of all time. Prosports wont allow me to post the website

post-season debacle? basketball-reference ranking is by fans voting, who have an unlimited number of votes. Being popular doesn't mean being better.


Here are some numbers from basketball-reference though

Career PER

1. Jordan - 27.91
2. Lebron - 27.79
3. Shaq - 26.43
18. Dirk - 23.48
19. Kobe - 23.36
20. Oscar - 23.17

Win Shares
1. Kareem - 273.41
2. Wilt - 247.26
3. Malone - 234.63
14. Kobe - 172.97
15. Lebron - 168.54

That's right, in an accumulation stat, with value mixed in...Lebron has already caught up to Kobe all time, despite playing 12,000 less minutes.

No doubt about it, Kobe has been caught up by Lebron, and after two years (assuming health) Lebron will have Kobe well in his rear-view mirror.


Pau Gasol was not better than Kobe. Thats asinine. Gasol was a valuable piece, but Kobe carried that team so lets just stop that. Even on the shaq-led teams, Kobe was still a MAJOR CONTRIBUTOR. He still avg 25-28 ppg 5-6 asts, 4-5 rbs pg. Be forreal Jeffy25

Shaq was a 30.0 PER player, while Kobe was a 20-22 PER player.

Gasol and Kobe were both 22.0 PER players in the second chips.

Gasol also brought in 11 Wins, Kobe 9 in the second chip.

Just because Kobe shot the most, doesn't mean he was the 'primary carrier' on those Lakers teams. He required the assistance of great players with him, including the first three which came with a top 10 player of all-time being the main player that the teams were built around.

StacyJr5000
10-19-2014, 08:45 PM
Analytics are overrated my friend. If you believe gasol was a better player than kobe you sir are a fool.

StacyJr5000
10-19-2014, 08:48 PM
No matter how you want slice it, PER or no PER Kobe found a way to get it done in the end, while LBJ has been surrounded by Better talent in the latter part of kobe's career and still fell short and failed smh

StacyJr5000
10-19-2014, 08:50 PM
If analytics and PER were the end all be all then the Houston Rockets would never lose because they were the PIONEERS of analytics in the NBA Jeffy25

Jamiecballer
10-19-2014, 09:00 PM
No matter how you want slice it, PER or no PER Kobe found a way to get it done in the end, while LBJ has been surrounded by Better talent in the latter part of kobe's career and still fell short and failed smh
No. Kobe and his team found a way to get it done. Not once did Kobe ever do it himself.

Lebron is not responsible for the performance of his teammates. Its not in his makeup to play Jordan ball, just as it wasn't in Magic's. This is why the rings argument is stupid and superficial.

SPURSFAN1
10-19-2014, 09:47 PM
If analytics and PER were the end all be all then the Houston Rockets would never lose because they were the PIONEERS of analytics in the NBA Jeffy25

Actually the spurs are the pioneers.

Jeffy25
10-19-2014, 09:53 PM
Actually the spurs are the pioneers.

And those aren't even analytic stats....those are just efficiency and value stats that are pretty well known universally around the league and pretty well accepted for the most part.

SPURSFAN1
10-19-2014, 10:01 PM
And those aren't even analytic stats....those are just efficiency and value stats that are pretty well known universally around the league and pretty well accepted for the most part.

Some hardware involved too, but not all the teams have it. Also figuring out what is most important from those adv analytics is what separates you from the pact.

FlashBolt
10-19-2014, 10:25 PM
No matter how you want slice it, PER or no PER Kobe found a way to get it done in the end, while LBJ has been surrounded by Better talent in the latter part of kobe's career and still fell short and failed smh

Kobe's Lakers beat Magic/Celtics.. two good teams.. This season Spurs would have dismantled Kobe.. And FYI, how can you blame James for the loss this season? Did you watch the Finals? The only thing James disappointed everyone was during the Finals vs Mavericks. That was inexcusable.

AIRMAR72
10-20-2014, 12:50 AM
It's pretty much a given that Kobe has won his last title. The guy can barely play 6 games in a season. Sure, he might pass Michael in regular season scoring, but his team ain't making the playoffs these next 2 yrs. And any individual awards for Kobe is a long shot.

LeBron as 4x as many league MVPs as Kobe and as many Finals MVPs as Kobe. Kobe has him beat in the All Star MVP and Scoring Title departments (which mean nothing), but that's basically pretty much it.


LeBron is the better scorer, defender, passer, rebounder, more skillful, more exciting, better teammate, all around player, ambassador for the league, role model and person.

So does Kobe rank higher or lower than LeBron at the end of these next 2 yrs? LeBron James IQ IS superior to Kobe since day1 Bron is already rank higher

SPURSFAN1
10-20-2014, 03:43 AM
LeBron James IQ IS superior to Kobe since day1 Bron is already rank higher

What are you smoking?

Jamiecballer
10-20-2014, 08:15 AM
I think those were 2 separate, completely accurate statements

PhillyFaninLA
10-20-2014, 08:28 AM
Lebron may be the best player in 2 franchises history right now, Kobe is not better than the 4th or 5th best Laker of all time (which is saying something with they guys they have had).

If you aren't the best in your franchises history you can't rank higher than a guy who is potentially the best 2 different organizations have ever had.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-20-2014, 02:23 PM
Lebron may be the best player in 2 franchises history right now, Kobe is not better than the 4th or 5th best Laker of all time (which is saying something with they guys they have had).

If you aren't the best in your franchises history you can't rank higher than a guy who is potentially the best 2 different organizations have ever had.

Not true. Some franchises are just stacked and some are shallow when it comes to ATG.

Though Lebron is better than Kobe.

Jeffy25
10-20-2014, 02:28 PM
Lebron may be the best player in 2 franchises history right now, Kobe is not better than the 4th or 5th best Laker of all time (which is saying something with they guys they have had).

If you aren't the best in your franchises history you can't rank higher than a guy who is potentially the best 2 different organizations have ever had.

While I understand what you are saying, that is just horrible logic.

That has everything to do with the franchises history and other team mates, than it does you individually.

The Heat are a young organization without much history, the Cavs don't have much positive history, and the Lakers are basketballs preeminent franchise (with the Celtics).

And I would argue that Kobe is the best Laker of all time at this point. Maybe not the best rate valued Laker, but he has spent more time on the court for them, while being productive for that argument.

Him, West, Kareem, and Magic. I would take Kobe's career over the others at this point (if I could have only one).

But aside that point. That's not sound logic.

PhillyFaninLA
10-20-2014, 02:33 PM
Not true. Some franchises are just stacked and some are shallow when it comes to ATG.

Though Lebron is better than Kobe.


While I understand what you are saying, that is just horrible logic.

That has everything to do with the franchises history and other team mates, than it does you individually.

The Heat are a young organization without much history, the Cavs don't have much positive history, and the Lakers are basketballs preeminent franchise (with the Celtics).

And I would argue that Kobe is the best Laker of all time at this point. Maybe not the best rate valued Laker, but he has spent more time on the court for them, while being productive for that argument.

Him, West, Kareem, and Magic. I would take Kobe's career over the others at this point (if I could have only one).

But aside that point. That's not sound logic.


I stand by the point I was trying to make, but both of you make good points. I did go a bit far and overstated things in my comment.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-20-2014, 02:41 PM
You can probably just switch Kobe and Lebron's teams. Lebron still better than Kobe but Kobe then best player in Cavs and Heat team while Lebron (at this point) is probably behind Magic, Kareem, etc.

Jeffy25
10-20-2014, 02:50 PM
You can probably just switch Kobe and Lebron's teams. Lebron still better than Kobe but Kobe then best player in Cavs and Heat team while Lebron (at this point) is probably behind Magic, Kareem, etc.

In Lakers history?

Lebron, much like Kobe, would be the top Laker all-time IMO.

Kareem's career is split up for me.

And Lebron is already ahead of Magic no problem for me (although many will dispute that on here).

Raps18-19 Champ
10-20-2014, 02:54 PM
In Lakers history?

Lebron, much like Kobe, would be the top Laker all-time IMO.

Kareem's career is split up for me.

And Lebron is already ahead of Magic no problem for me (although many will dispute that on here).

More in terms of just overall ranking. So Kobe is still behind in all time ranking behind other Laker greats, even though Kobe may have achieved more as a Laker. In that sense.

Avenged
10-20-2014, 08:01 PM
The question should be will LeBron rank higher because kobe can't do anything anymore to move up unless he suddenly gets his prime back. While Lebron still has more years in him.

beasted86
10-21-2014, 03:36 PM
So far, he's ranked above LeBron. There's nothing Kobe can realistically do in the next two years to raise his rank, but there is a lot that LeBron can do. So if we are talking about just 2 years its unknown. But based on career trajectory, LeBron should finish higher all-time if can accomplish more over the next set of years.