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View Full Version : King of the Hill: Texas Edition Rank your teams Spurs, Mavericks, Rockets



latinofire21
10-15-2014, 10:41 AM
With the season approaching I think one of the most intriguing story lines is who is the best team in Texas. Most people will assume its the Spurs since they are defending champions but I think an argument can be made that the Mavericks are the team to beat in Texas.

The Mavericks probably played the Spurs the best in the playoffs before the eventual champions took their crown. With the addition of Tyson Chandler, Chandler Parsons, Jameer Nelson, Charlie Villanueva, Richard Jefferson, and Raymond Felton I think they have really did a great job filling holes and providing veteran leadership.

Key offseason losses: Dejuan Blair, Jose Calderon, Samuel Dalembert, Shane Larkin, Shawn Marion, Wayne Ellington

The Spurs are the Spurs. For years many have said this will be the year father time shines on the team and they prove everyone wrong. They have the best coach in basketball and probably the best trio of teammates ever assembled. The Spurs don't have any real sexy offseason moves like the Mavericks but they resigned their veterans and added coaching talent to the bench. You know what your going to get from the Spurs its a question of health and durability that Pop monitors very well.

The Rockets are probably the one team that took a major step backwards this offseason. After striking out on big name after big name after big name they pissed off their core roster. Jeremy Lin was upset about a banner that had melo in a Rocket uniform and was shipped to Los Angeles. Asik was also shipped out to the Pelicans in an attempt to make room for a big three in Houston. Parsons was held in the wind while they were trying to woo Chris Bosh and wound up losing one of their best players for nothing. Dwight Howard hasn't been the defensive force he was in Orlando since his back injury and they lost a lot of depth and struck out on a big name in the offseason. I think they took a major step backwards.

Key Acquisitions: Trevor Ariza, Jason Terry, Popalenku

Key Losses: Chandler Parsons, Omer Asik, Jeremy Lin, Corey Brewer

My order would be

1a) Spurs 1b) Mavericks
2)
3) Rockets

jaydubb
10-15-2014, 10:44 AM
Spurs and mavs will fight for the top seed alongside the clippers and possibly thunder if westy can keep them somewhat alive while KD is out. I see the rockets being a 7th or 8th seed

Texas rankings:
Spurs
Mavs
Rockets

Goose17
10-15-2014, 10:54 AM
Spurs
Rockets
Mavs


In general people seem to be underrating Houston and overrating Dallas. I'm not sure why that is but if I had to guess I would say it has something to do with the fact that Tyson Chandler is returning to Dallas and it's giving people nice warm fuzzy feelings in their tummy, associating his return with that 2011 championship. People don't seem to realise that was 3 years ago and Chandler is far removed from the player he was back then. When you look at that team, Chandler is the only plus defender on the starting 5 and even then he's on the wrong side of his peak.

Houston on the other hand, I'm not sure. Maybe people are higher on Chandler Parsons than I am or lower on Ariza than I am. Or maybe it's the loss of Asik and Lin? I really don't know.

I expect Houston to be marginally worse than last year but still better than Dallas. I fully expect Dallas to be a fun offensive team to watch and probably the worst defensive team in the West out of all the "playoff" contenders.


Best of luck to all of them. But until the big 3 fade into retirement and Popovich gets tired of winning, everyone else in Texas is playing for second place.

kdspurman
10-15-2014, 10:54 AM
I don't think you can really call the Mavs the team to beat in Texas. The Spurs are the defending champs, so by default they are probably the team to beat in the league as a whole. Especially considering they have the familiarity with one another and that is usually advantageous in close game situations, whereas a team with newer players may struggle at first and go through the usual growing pains that most newly constructed teams go through.

It should be fun to watch them battle it out though. Texas and that division in general is going to be very competitive.

I think in terms of where they land in the standings, it'll probably be:

Spurs
Mavs
Rockets

Jamiecballer
10-15-2014, 11:14 AM
Spurs

Rockets

Mavs

archdevil84
10-15-2014, 11:19 AM
i think people are overrating the mavs a bit

Burkey3472
10-15-2014, 11:27 AM
I don't know how people can say the Mavs can compete for the top spot with the Spurs right now or even saying they are 1A and 1B. They need Chandler to return to his all star form and Parsons to take another step in his development to compete for that top spot right now. So.....

1) Spurs
2) Mavs
3) Rockets

MonroeFAN
10-15-2014, 11:40 AM
I don't know how people can say the Mavs need EVERYTHING to go right with their new additions, after winning 49 games last year with out them.

I like them the best next season, but to avoid causing you know who to cry, I will go with SA.

Spurs
Mavs
University of Texas
Rockets

Htownballa1622
10-15-2014, 11:41 AM
*Joker voice* "Here. We. Go."

I'll just leave this here...

San Antonio
Houston
Dallas

aLau10
10-15-2014, 11:57 AM
I agree, I actually like the Mavs team. If Dirk/Tyson stays healthy and continues with their elite play, I really think this team can make noise come post-season. I am actually calling it right now Bulls VS Mavs finals.

But the ranking of teams in Texas... Id still place Spurs first, due to coaching and the group they still have. Mavs are very close, and I think if they meet in playoffs Mavs may be able to upset them. Rockets.... yeah 3rd.

Jamiecballer
10-15-2014, 12:00 PM
i think people are overrating the mavs a bit
By more than a bit IMO. The loss of Vince and Marion will offset any gains IMO.

MonroeFAN
10-15-2014, 12:06 PM
^Meh... a full off-season of Monta and Dirk practicing together off-sets it. What we have here is people seriously underrating Monta Ellis after the season he had.

Some how losing Chandler Parsons and Omer Asik is NBD, but losing Marion and VC who are a combined 180 years old is?

2-ONE-5
10-15-2014, 12:35 PM
i dont think there is even arguemnt to the rank

1.Spurs

2.Mavs
3.Rockets

latinofire21
10-15-2014, 12:35 PM
^Meh... a full off-season of Monta and Dirk practicing together off-sets it. What we have here is people seriously underrating Monta Ellis after the season he had.

Some how losing Chandler Parsons and Omer Asik is NBD, but losing Marion and VC who are a combined 180 years old is?

LOL funny post.

I don't get how anyone could even say the rockets are the second best team in Texas. Regardless of how old they think Chandler is, Chandler historically has played Dwight very well. When Dwight was at his best in Orlando they would battle and Chandler would negate his impact in games. Dwight I think has taken a step back as that defensive presence he was in Orlando. The back injury really hurt his defensive edge in my opinion.

You cant say the Rockets will have a little fall off when they lost all the depth gutting the roster to try and land a superstar. They took big step backwards. I like Ariza but if I was starting a team and had to pick between him and Parsons it would be a no brainer that I take Parsons.

You lost probably the best backup center in the league (Asik) a good point guard (Lin) and your stud SF (Parsons) and replaced him with Terry and Ariza. Don't really understand how that doesn't factor in to the debate.

Dallas rounded out there roster with Veterans and a stud SF and Rockets really salary dumped the whole offseason. You can definitely argue the Spurs and Mavericks competition up top but I think the additions the Mavericks made this offseason make them more dangerous to the Spurs then last year and last year they almost knocked them out.

goingfor28
10-15-2014, 12:41 PM
Spurs
Mavericks
Rockets

Goose17
10-15-2014, 12:58 PM
By more than a bit IMO. The loss of Vince and Marion will offset any gains IMO.

I agree.

Crackadalic
10-15-2014, 01:27 PM
Spurs

Rockets
Dallas

The Mavs moves are slightly Overrated. Yes they upgraded the center spot big time but he hasn't played more then 66 games in 3 years and is getting older. I like Chandler Parson but they lost some key depth in Vince Carter,who is underrated on that team, and Marion

There point guard rotation is not as good as last year neither

The Rockets Lost Omar but he only played 48 games. Lost there backup in Lin but Isaiah can fill that backup void nicely and replace Parsons with Ariza who is a better fit because he plays better defense and can shoot the 3.

Also don't Sleep on Kostas Papanikolaou. He's going to be good. He can fill the playmaker role off the bench as well

I thought the Rockets lost a lot but thinking it through they recovered nicely and even added more depth.

aLau10
10-15-2014, 01:35 PM
I do think losing VC and Marion is quite a bit to overcome, but cmon look at the pieces they got in the offseason...Tyson Chandler, Chandler Parsons, Raymond Felton, Jameer Nelson, Richard Jefferson, Charlie V, Greg Smith, Aminu....

Alot of these guys are not WOWers or spectular, but they are solid players. People may argue that Felton, Nelson, Jefferson are all washed up but they are servicable and when given a role to stick to, they will do it well. I personally still think Nelson and Felton both has some in them, Both can play the 3&D + Passing type of PG role. Jefferson came of a great year last year on the Jazz, and it's nto like he's starting for the Mavs. Aminu and Greg Smith I believe can establish themselves under Mavs system. Both are not outstanding players, but can get it done. Chandler Parson and Tyson Chandler... Must I say more, Parson is simply scratching the surface of what he can potentially be. Chandler is still one of the leagues top Cs, a rim protector thats good beside Dirk.

Depth Chart:
Felton - Nelson - Harris
Ellis - Crowder
Parsons - Aminu - Jefferson
Dirk - Charlie V - Greg Smith
Chandler - Wright

compared to....

Depth Chart:
Calderon - Devin Harris
Ellis - VC
Marion - Crowder
Dirk - Blair
Dalembert - Wright

you cant say the new team is better..... :/ you got an additional offensive threat + defensive upgrades in the 1-3-5 spots

Htownballa1622
10-15-2014, 01:57 PM
Like Crackadalic said….

Omer played 48 games(disgruntled at that) and Lin was up and down all year.

Parsons is a better creator than Ariza but Ariza fills a better need for us by playing good defense and providing good 3 point percentages.

If ppl would stop biting on Chandler's pump fake he'd be much less likely to even see the paint. He uses his size well to get off one legged off balance shots but he's not quick enough to get to the paint w/o that shot fake.

Our issues were bench production, 3pt shooting, and DEFENSE.

Troy Daniels should get some minutes and help our floor spacing. Kostas Papanikolaou could be a solid guy off the bench. One of Jeff Adrien/Joey Dorsey/ Tarik Black could provide big man help and defense we desperately needed after Dwight.

Terry(shooting,leadership)/Nick Johnson(athleticism, defense) are combo guards that may provide different things off the bench. (Nick will probably be in Dleague to start)

Along with bringing back Jones and Motiejunas.

I think Houston will be just fine and they've positioned themselves to where they can trade for someone else if things go south elsewhere.

San Antonio

Houston

Dallas.

GrkGawdofWalkz
10-15-2014, 02:04 PM
Spurs, Spurs, Spurs...followed by the dregs of Houston and Dallas.

Thumper 88
10-15-2014, 03:24 PM
Like Crackadalic said….

Omer played 48 games(disgruntled at that) and Lin was up and down all year.

Parsons is a better creator than Ariza but Ariza fills a better need for us by playing good defense and providing good 3 point percentages.

If ppl would stop biting on Chandler's pump fake he'd be much less likely to even see the paint. He uses his size well to get off one legged off balance shots but he's not quick enough to get to the paint w/o that shot fake.

Our issues were bench production, 3pt shooting, and DEFENSE.

Troy Daniels should get some minutes and help our floor spacing. Kostas Papanikolaou could be a solid guy off the bench. One of Jeff Adrien/Joey Dorsey/ Tarik Black could provide big man help and defense we desperately needed after Dwight.

Terry(shooting,leadership)/Nick Johnson(athleticism, defense) are combo guards that may provide different things off the bench. (Nick will probably be in Dleague to start)

Along with bringing back Jones and Motiejunas.

I think Houston will be just fine and they've positioned themselves to where they can trade for someone else if things go south elsewhere.

San Antonio

Houston

Dallas.

100% agree.

I think getting Jason Terry really put them over the top and I might even rank them higher than the spurs.

And ariza is a way better fit than Parsons.

I also think they will make a big trade since they didn't accept the parsons contact.

mightybosstone
10-15-2014, 03:33 PM
1. Spurs (58-60 wins)
2. Rockets (54-56 wins)
3. Mavs (52-54 wins)

I think it's going to be very, very close between those three teams this year. I think the Spurs didn't improve that much from last season and may start to see enough of a decline from their veterans to impact them in the win-loss column while the Rockets and Mavericks both got a little better, but not substantially so.

For those stating that the Rockets got significantly worse, just trust me when I say that you're wrong. The dropoff from Parsons to Ariza is negligible if a dropoff at all, and the bench has gotten a pretty solid influx of young talent in the offseason. Look out for Kostas Popanikalaou, Jeff Adrien, Tarik Black and Nick Johnson. Pop will probably get some major minutes this season, and I'd be surprised if Johnson wasn't on the roster by season's end. Black and Adrien may have to fight for their minutes, but I think they could both work themselves into the rotation with Jones and Motiejunas at the 4/5 with Howard.

The only two concerns I have with this team are the backup PG spot and starting PF spot, but I think Ish, Canaan or Johnson will eventually step up and play well enough to earn the former and they have a lot of depth among their bigs that they didn't have last year.

Mark my words, if Harden and Howard each stay relatively healthy this season, they will win as many or more games than they did last year. I feel pretty damn confident about that right now, especially after watching them in the preseason.

Thumper 88
10-15-2014, 03:38 PM
1. Spurs (58-60 wins)
2. Rockets (54-56 wins)
3. Mavs (52-54 wins)

I think it's going to be very, very close between those three teams this year. I think the Spurs didn't improve that much from last season and may start to see enough of a decline from their veterans to impact them in the win-loss column while the Rockets and Mavericks both got a little better, but not substantially so.

For those stating that the Rockets got significantly worse, just trust me when I say that you're wrong. The dropoff from Parsons to Ariza is negligible if a dropoff at all, and the bench has gotten a pretty solid influx of young talent in the offseason. Look out for Kostas Popanikalaou, Jeff Adrien, Tarik Black and Nick Johnson. Pop will probably get some major minutes this season, and I'd be surprised if Johnson wasn't on the roster by season's end. Black and Adrien may have to fight for their minutes, but I think they could both work themselves into the rotation with Jones and Motiejunas at the 4/5 with Howard.

The only two concerns I have with this team are the backup PG spot and starting PF spot, but I think Ish, Canaan or Johnson will eventually step up and play well enough to earn the former and they have a lot of depth among their bigs that they didn't have last year.

Mark my words, if Harden and Howard each stay relatively healthy this season, they will win as many or more games than they did last year. I feel pretty damn confident about that right now, especially after watching them in the preseason.
Yep!

I don't understand how people underrate players like Kostas Popanikalaou, Jeff Adrien, Tarik Black.

The bench is going to surprise sooooo many people this year!

mightybosstone
10-15-2014, 03:45 PM
Must I say more, Parson is simply scratching the surface of what he can potentially be.

I've seen a lot of people say that this offseason, and as someone who watched the vast majority of his games in a Rockets uniform, let me just say that I disagree. I think Parsons is a really, really, really solid player. He does pretty much everything well, albeit nothing spectacular. He's a good athlete, but not a great one. He plays decent defense, but he's average at best on that end of the floor. And he's a really decent playmaker, but he's never going to be a point forward in the mold of Scottie Pippen or Lebron James.

On a contending team, I see Chandler's potential as maybe a 19/6/4 guy with solid efficiency. He'd be a pretty damn good No. 3 on a contender with the right pieces around him. Or I could see him as something like a 22/7/4 guy with mediocre efficiency on a bad basketball team with no options around him. But I don't think he's ever going to be a star in this league. He could maybe crack a couple of All-Star teams at his peak, but he'll never make an All-NBA squad and he'll never be the best player on a legitimate contender.

But I assure you that Parsons is not about to explode and become a 25/7/5 guy. He's just not that good of an athlete, shooter, scorer or playmaker to be that kind of NBA player.

MonroeFAN
10-15-2014, 03:57 PM
How did Houston improve?

mightybosstone
10-15-2014, 03:57 PM
Yep!

I don't understand how people underrate players like Kostas Popanikalaou, Jeff Adrien, Tarik Black.

The bench is going to surprise sooooo many people this year!

It's hard to tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'm going to assume that you are. And I don't blame you. Hell, I don't blame anyone for underrating the Rockets after the offseason they had. They came within one totally reasonable decision from Chris Bosh of becoming the most talented, most balanced starting five in the NBA. And then, within a matter of like 24 hours, they lost Bosh and Parsons.

But that's just what's on the surface. To anyone who is a diehard fan of a team, they can attest to the fact that we watch our rosters like a hawk and every little acquisition matters to us one way or another. People may mock those little acquisitions, but look at the Spurs. They've had Duncan, Manu and Parker for a decade and after winning that title in 2007, they accomplished nothing in the playoffs again until 2013. What was the difference? The little acquisitions. It was Diaw, Mills, Green, Leonard and Splitter. Those guys, none of which were high first round draft picks or major free agent acquisitions, made a big difference.

Daryl Morey has as good a track record with acquiring quality assets and judging talent as anyone in the NBA. He got Luis Scola for nothing. He drafted Brooks, Landry, Parsons, Terrence Jones, etc. with late picks. He saw the talent in guys like Lowry, Dragic, Asik and Beverley when no one else did. And I've seen some of these guys play over the past few months. Popanikalaou is the real deal. There's a reason he was an integral part of two championship teams in the Eurogleague in the last three years. Adrien is coming off off a really, really good season in Milwaukee that no one saw him play. Nick Johnson was a beast at Arizona, but no one wanted to take a chance on him in the draft because he was small for a SG. And Black spent most of his senior year at Kansas behind Joel Embiid, so few people even knew who he was.

But there's talent in these players. And I think this is the year we could see some of those previous acquisitions (Beverley, Jones, Motiejunas and Canaan) really pay off. Plus, Harden and Howard have had a year to play together and Harden is playing like he's in midseason form this preseason because of his time playing at the World Cup this summer. So feel free to laugh, but I think no one will be laughing at the Rockets in a few months.

Edit: Oh yeah, and that Ariza guy has looked really, really good in the preseason. He's been a nightmare in the passing lanes and on defense. And he and Harden had some really solid chemistry on the court together. I don't think he'll replace Parsons offensively, but he'll make up for it on the other end and with his 3-point shooting.

aLau10
10-15-2014, 04:01 PM
I've seen a lot of people say that this offseason, and as someone who watched the vast majority of his games in a Rockets uniform, let me just say that I disagree. I think Parsons is a really, really, really solid player. He does pretty much everything well, albeit nothing spectacular. He's a good athlete, but not a great one. He plays decent defense, but he's average at best on that end of the floor. And he's a really decent playmaker, but he's never going to be a point forward in the mold of Scottie Pippen or Lebron James.

On a contending team, I see Chandler's potential as maybe a 19/6/4 guy with solid efficiency. He'd be a pretty damn good No. 3 on a contender with the right pieces around him. Or I could see him as something like a 22/7/4 guy with mediocre efficiency on a bad basketball team with no options around him. But I don't think he's ever going to be a star in this league. He could maybe crack a couple of All-Star teams at his peak, but he'll never make an All-NBA squad and he'll never be the best player on a legitimate contender.

But I assure you that Parsons is about to explode and become a 25/7/5 guy. He's just not that good of an athlete, shooter, scorer or playmaker to be that kind of NBA player.

You disagree but yet you say he is going to explode for 25/7/5.... those are great numbers. Especially if you are playing alongside Dirk and Ellis, for you to score 25 that's pretty darn good. These numbers compared to the ones he has previously achieved would indicate he has only scratched the surface of what he could be, would that phrasing not match what the situation indicates? LOL
It also depends on how you interpret that saying, I just feel like given a bit more time, he can develop into a really solid player, but I agree with what you said in regards to him not making All NBA teams. I don't see it either but he can definitely break into one or two all-star games.

Once again, just my hunch... Mavericks will make a deep run this post-season... Parsons will have a good year.

mightybosstone
10-15-2014, 04:01 PM
How did Houston improve?

Defense and depth.

mightybosstone
10-15-2014, 04:06 PM
You disagree but yet you say he is going to explode for 25/7/5.... those are great numbers.
That was pretty clearly a typo. I'm saying that he's NOT going to explode and become that kind of a player. Hell, I'd be shocked if he ever tops 20 PPG on a playoff team, much less 25.


It also depends on how you interpret that saying, I just feel like given a bit more time, he can develop into a really solid player, but I agree with what you said in regards to him not making All NBA teams. I don't see it either but he can definitely break into one or two all-star games.

Once again, just my hunch... Mavericks will make a deep run this post-season... Parsons will have a good year.
I think he's already a solid player, and I have no doubt that Parsons will have a good year. Maybe even better than last season. I just don't think he's ever going to justify the $15 million a year he just got paid, and I don't think he'll ever be a No. 1 on a really good playoff team. Could he be the No. 2 or No. 3 guy on a Mavs team that gets to the second round this season? Sure. But just don't expect him to put up freakish numbers or start scoring like a star, because that's not his game.

kdspurman
10-15-2014, 04:07 PM
I don't think cause the Spurs didn't add anyone that doesn't mean they haven't improved much. The Spurs have always been big on player development and individuals getting better. So while they haven't added anyone, I think Leonard will make improvements, Green will continue to get better, etc.... Not to mention their coaching staff getting stronger, so there are ways for them as a collective unit to be better as well as some guys individually. And the coaching staff could add some new wrinkles to their game that already proved to be a formula for success.

So just from a chemistry/familiarity/coaching standpoint, they should be a leg up against most teams, if not all. I mean they had a pretty darn good year last year regular season and playoffs, like Pop said. So no reason to make any moves. If they can stay healthy, I think they can match that regular season mark they had last year. Last season they dealt with some costly injuries

Thumper 88
10-15-2014, 04:17 PM
It's hard to tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'm going to assume that you are. And I don't blame you. Hell, I don't blame anyone for underrating the Rockets after the offseason they had. They came within one totally reasonable decision from Chris Bosh of becoming the most talented, most balanced starting five in the NBA. And then, within a matter of like 24 hours, they lost Bosh and Parsons.

But that's just what's on the surface. To anyone who is a diehard fan of a team, they can attest to the fact that we watch our rosters like a hawk and every little acquisition matters to us one way or another. People may mock those little acquisitions, but look at the Spurs. They've had Duncan, Manu and Parker for a decade and after winning that title in 2007, they accomplished nothing in the playoffs again until 2013. What was the difference? The little acquisitions. It was Diaw, Mills, Green, Leonard and Splitter. Those guys, none of which were high first round draft picks or major free agent acquisitions, made a big difference.

Daryl Morey has as good a track record with acquiring quality assets and judging talent as anyone in the NBA. He got Luis Scola for nothing. He drafted Brooks, Landry, Parsons, Terrence Jones, etc. with late picks. He saw the talent in guys like Lowry, Dragic, Asik and Beverley when no one else did. And I've seen some of these guys play over the past few months. Popanikalaou is the real deal. There's a reason he was an integral part of two championship teams in the Eurogleague in the last three years. Adrien is coming off off a really, really good season in Milwaukee that no one saw him play. Nick Johnson was a beast at Arizona, but no one wanted to take a chance on him in the draft because he was small for a SG. And Black spent most of his senior year at Kansas behind Joel Embiid, so few people even knew who he was.

But there's talent in these players. And I think this is the year we could see some of those previous acquisitions (Beverley, Jones, Motiejunas and Canaan) really pay off. Plus, Harden and Howard have had a year to play together and Harden is playing like he's in midseason form this preseason because of his time playing at the World Cup this summer. So feel free to laugh, but I think no one will be laughing at the Rockets in a few months.

Edit: Oh yeah, and that Ariza guy has looked really, really good in the preseason. He's been a nightmare in the passing lanes and on defense. And he and Harden had some really solid chemistry on the court together. I don't think he'll replace Parsons offensively, but he'll make up for it on the other end and with his 3-point shooting.
Why would it be hard to tell?

I was agreeing with you and the other Houston fan..

Unless of course those post were sarcastic and far fetched???

mightybosstone
10-15-2014, 04:20 PM
I don't think cause the Spurs didn't add anyone that doesn't mean they haven't improved much.
Mmm... That's exactly what it means. Unless Leonard, Green or Splitter break out and start scoring 20 a night every game, I don't know how you can say the Spurs have made a significant improvement. I could see them being as good or maybe slightly better than last season, but I don't know how you can argue that they've "improved much."


The Spurs have always been big on player development and individuals getting better. So while they haven't added anyone, I think Leonard will make improvements, Green will continue to get better, etc.... Not to mention their coaching staff getting stronger, so there are ways for them as a collective unit to be better as well as some guys individually. And the coaching staff could add some new wrinkles to their game that already proved to be a formula for success.
Age can be both the biggest ally and the greatest enemy in sports. You can expect your young guys to get better and your old guys to get worse. And the Spurs are one of those teams that are very much at a crossroads with those two sides of the coin. As long as the improvement of their young players continues to outweigh the regression of their veterans, they'll be contenders. But that can only hold out for so long. At some point, Duncan and Ginobili will retire and Parker may not be far behind them. If Leonard doesn't evolve into a top tier NBA player by the time those three Hall of Famers digress too much to carry the team, then the Spurs could see a significant dropoff pretty quickly.

I don't know when that tipping point will happen. But we could start to see things falter just a little bit this season.


So just from a chemistry/familiarity/coaching standpoint, they should be a leg up against most teams, if not all. I mean they had a pretty darn good year last year regular season and playoffs, like Pop said. So no reason to make any moves. If they can stay healthy, I think they can match that regular season mark they had last year. Last season they dealt with some costly injuries
Right. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But the Spurs just keep duct taping Duncan and Ginobili every year and it holds together because they have that excellent chemistry and top notch role players to make it work. But what happens when duct tape can't hold it together any more? I'm not saying that will happen this season. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Spurs won 60 games and brought home another title. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they won fewer games last year and were bounced in the first round by a younger, more athletic team. It could go either way.

mightybosstone
10-15-2014, 04:23 PM
Why would it be hard to tell?

I was agreeing with you and the other Houston fan..

Unless of course those post were sarcastic and far fetched???
Oh, if that's the case, then I apologize. I thought you were a Mavericks fan for some reason. And no, I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being serious. I really do think Ariza is a better fit in Houston than Parsons and that their bench will be a little better this season.

aLau10
10-15-2014, 04:28 PM
That was pretty clearly a typo. I'm saying that he's NOT going to explode and become that kind of a player. Hell, I'd be shocked if he ever tops 20 PPG on a playoff team, much less 25.
Oh lol, well I really see him getting to the 19 range alongside Ellis and Dirk. I'd say something like a 19-6/7-4 guy.


I think he's already a solid player, and I have no doubt that Parsons will have a good year. Maybe even better than last season. I just don't think he's ever going to justify the $15 million a year he just got paid, and I don't think he'll ever be a No. 1 on a really good playoff team. Could he be the No. 2 or No. 3 guy on a Mavs team that gets to the second round this season? Sure. But just don't expect him to put up freakish numbers or start scoring like a star, because that's not his game.

He's solid but I mean he can really develop into a more refined player... like a borderline #2 option? I agree though, not sure if he'll justify the $15mill, even I was put to shock when he got that money. However, I think he will give the Mavs what they need to elevate their game a bit more.

Htownballa1622
10-15-2014, 04:30 PM
100% agree.

I think getting Jason Terry really put them over the top and I might even rank them higher than the spurs.

And ariza is a way better fit than Parsons.

I also think they will make a big trade since they didn't accept the parsons contact.

Not sure if serious...but.

I disagree that Terry puts us over the top.
I wouldn't rank them above the Spurs until I see a decline of Duncan, Manu, Tony (I hope it's sometime in the next 10 years haha)

I do think Ariza Is a better fit and I didn't say we were going to make a big trade because we didn't match the contract.

I said we have flexibility and pieces to make a trade later down road.

Thumper 88
10-15-2014, 04:31 PM
Oh, if that's the case, then I apologize. I thought you were a Mavericks fan for some reason. And no, I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being serious. I really do think Ariza is a better fit in Houston than Parsons and that their bench will be a little better this season.
Apology accepted.

I think Jason terry was needle mover though. He's really going to bring all his leadership and 3 point shooting skills and push Houston to the next level.

Thumper 88
10-15-2014, 04:36 PM
Not sure if serious...but.

I disagree that Terry puts us over the top.
I wouldn't rank them above the Spurs until I see a decline of Duncan, Manu, Tony (I hope it's sometime in the next 10 years haha)

I do think Ariza Is a better fit and I didn't say we were going to make a big trade because we didn't match the contract.

I said we have flexibility and pieces to make a trade later down road.
Hummm.... Why do you Houston fans keep asking me if I'm serious?

My post are basically a dumbed downed version of what you said.

So if you are questioning that then you must not be taking what you say seriously..

kdspurman
10-15-2014, 04:38 PM
Mmm... That's exactly what it means. Unless Leonard, Green or Splitter break out and start scoring 20 a night every game, I don't know how you can say the Spurs have made a significant improvement. I could see them being as good or maybe slightly better than last season, but I don't know how you can argue that they've "improved much."

Little things.. They were successful without anyone scoring 20 a night last year. So if guys make a 2-3 ppg jump, it's an improvement when you consider the style/build of the Spurs.



Age can be both the biggest ally and the greatest enemy in sports. You can expect your young guys to get better and your old guys to get worse. And the Spurs are one of those teams that are very much at a crossroads with those two sides of the coin. As long as the improvement of their young players continues to outweigh the regression of their veterans, they'll be contenders. But that can only hold out for so long. At some point, Duncan and Ginobili will retire and Parker may not be far behind them. If Leonard doesn't evolve into a top tier NBA player by the time those three Hall of Famers digress too much to carry the team, then the Spurs could see a significant dropoff pretty quickly.

I don't know when that tipping point will happen. But we could start to see things falter just a little bit this season.

It can only hold up for so long for sure. That's why it helps to have Pop running the show. They're still playing now, so for this year, they seem to be in good shape. I haven't thought about the year after. It scares me a bit :o I believe in Pop & RC, but of course I'm worried. But i'm just talking about this upcoming season.


Right. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But the Spurs just keep duct taping Duncan and Ginobili every year and it holds together because they have that excellent chemistry and top notch role players to make it work. But what happens when duct tape can't hold it together any more? I'm not saying that will happen this season. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Spurs won 60 games and brought home another title. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they won fewer games last year and were bounced in the first round by a younger, more athletic team. It could go either way.

You're right, it could go either way for sure. I know this league is all about match ups. That duct tape seems to be holding these guys together though (knock on wood). summer off for the big 3 (which helped Manu immensely last season and he's getting it again) and will pay big dividends for a dinged up Parker, managed minutes/resting games, are a big reason why that tape keeps things together. It's put together quite nicely by Pop.

I admit I'm nervous about this year cause they don't have the hunger/pain they did last year. But I guess we'll see what happens.

Goose17
10-15-2014, 04:40 PM
I really do think Ariza is a better fit in Houston than Parsons and that their bench will be a little better this season.

Not sold on the bench, but Ariza is without question a better fit imo. Houston did the right thing passing on Parsons max deal. A better fit and a saving of about 14 million overall. That's 14 million that could be used to sign another high caliber free agent next season or a couple of good bench pieces.

astrosmaniac
10-15-2014, 04:58 PM
Not sold on the bench, but Ariza is without question a better fit imo. Houston did the right thing passing on Parsons max deal. A better fit and a saving of about 14 million overall. That's 14 million that could be used to sign another high caliber free agent next season or a couple of good bench pieces.

I think this bench has the potential to be a better bench than last years. It's not a better bench yet, but i do think it could be better. K-pap will be the best backup SF we've had since budinger and he will be a good 2 way player. I like the improvement i've seen offensively from d-mo in preseason and FIBA World Cup play. I think that Black/Adrien/Dorsey can give us enough defense and rebounding at C backing up dwight (but if he goes down for a decent sized stretch it will hurt). i think we can find at least 1 good guard play between smith/caanan/terry/johnson.

For me, Ariza is a much better fit with this starting 5 than Parsons and if we can find 2 other decent bench pieces to go with K-pap then we will be overall a better team when the rotation shrinks come playoff time.

MonroeFAN
10-15-2014, 05:00 PM
How did Houston improve?

Defense and depth.

By losing the best back up center in the game? Now ARIZA is being overrated.

goingfor28
10-15-2014, 05:08 PM
How did Houston improve?

they didnt

Htownballa1622
10-15-2014, 05:13 PM
Hummm.... Why do you Houston fans keep asking me if I'm serious?

My post are basically a dumbed downed version of what you said.

So if you are questioning that then you must not be taking what you say seriously..

It's just weird coming from a mavs fan. I mean no disrespect and sorry if u feel I might have.

Like I said, I'm not sold on terry yet but if he can provide that punch off the bench, that would be welcomed.

Htownballa1622
10-15-2014, 05:15 PM
By losing the best back up center in the game? Now ARIZA is being overrated.

The best backup center played 48 games last year.

How is ariza being overrated? If he can be a plus defender with solid shooting numbers like last year I don't see how that's over rating him at all. He did it last year :shrug:

Thumper 88
10-15-2014, 05:23 PM
It's just weird coming from a mavs fan. I mean no disrespect and sorry if u feel I might have.

Like I said, I'm not sold on terry yet but if he can provide that punch off the bench, that would be welcomed.

Apology accepted.

I honestly see Dwight going back to 09 form and Harding winning the MVP.

I'm not sure there is a team out there that can stop Houston right now.

Has anyone seen Ariza in preseason? The dude is so good!

mightybosstone
10-15-2014, 06:30 PM
I think this bench has the potential to be a better bench than last years. It's not a better bench yet, but i do think it could be better. K-pap will be the best backup SF we've had since budinger and he will be a good 2 way player. I like the improvement i've seen offensively from d-mo in preseason and FIBA World Cup play. I think that Black/Adrien/Dorsey can give us enough defense and rebounding at C backing up dwight (but if he goes down for a decent sized stretch it will hurt). i think we can find at least 1 good guard play between smith/caanan/terry/johnson.

For me, Ariza is a much better fit with this starting 5 than Parsons and if we can find 2 other decent bench pieces to go with K-pap then we will be overall a better team when the rotation shrinks come playoff time.
Nail on the head. I'm not sure I'm sold on the bench yet either, but it has a hell of a lot more potential and looks a lot better on paper than the bench did at the end of last season. I'm still pretty concerned about backup PG, but the trio of Papanikolaou, Adrien and Black looks really, really good right now through four games. Motiejunas also has shown flashes of brilliance this offseason.


By losing the best back up center in the game? Now ARIZA is being overrated.
Well, Ariza doesn't really impact the depth at all, but he certainly improves the defense of their starting rotation. He's twice the defender Parsons is, and perimeter defense was probably their biggest problem last year.

As far as depth, I'll admit that they lost a great player in Asik, but the guy only played half the season, he was a distraction the entire year and he didn't want to be here. Even if the Rockets weren't going after Bosh, Asik was going to be gone over the summer. But I love the additions they made in the front court, especially Adrien and Black, and I think Motiejunas could make significant improvements this year. Papanikolaou is also far, far better than any wing they had on the bench last season, and if Terry can just be the guy he was in Boston two years ago, that has the potential to be a pretty big signing.

If you saw how bad the bench was at times last year and how much they struggled to keep up whenever the starters sat down, you'd agree that this is a much deeper basketball team. They're 6th and 7th best guys might not be as good as last year, but their 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th guys are far better.


they didnt
:shrug: Agree to disagree. I guess we'll find out at the end of the season. But when it comes to judging a Rockets team I've watched for two decades, I tend to trust my own judgment over the judgment of random NBA fans who pay about 1% as much attention to the team as I do.

mightybosstone
10-15-2014, 07:04 PM
Apology accepted.

I honestly see Dwight going back to 09 form and Harding winning the MVP.

I'm not sure there is a team out there that can stop Houston right now.

Has anyone seen Ariza in preseason? The dude is so good!
I just don't get it. Are you doing a shtick or something? You alternate between saying reasonable things and seeming like you're being honest to saying things that the most homer of Rockets fans would find ridiculous. Are you trying to be funny? Because I'm genuinely confused at this point. If you are trying to satirize Rockets fans, you're doing a very strange job of it. :confused:

mrblisterdundee
10-15-2014, 07:09 PM
1. Spurs: Champions until proven otherwise.
2. Mavericks: They added what Houston lost.
3. Rockets: Trevor Ariza isn't Chandler Parsons.

Htownballa1622
10-15-2014, 07:35 PM
Apology accepted.

I honestly see Dwight going back to 09 form and Harding winning the MVP.

I'm not sure there is a team out there that can stop Houston right now.

Has anyone seen Ariza in preseason? The dude is so good!

Lol. Are you a Rox fan now? Those are pretty bold out there statements but I wish.

I think dwight is much healthier than beginning of last year but not sure if we'll ever see 09 dwight again.

Harden would have to do more defensively and rox end up a top 2 seed which would be very tough.

I see a few teams that can stop us right now but hopefully by seasons end it'll be less ;)

Ariza has looked pretty good but now I think you're messing with us. Lol

gatkins11
10-15-2014, 07:38 PM
By more than a bit IMO. The loss of Vince and Marion will offset any gains IMO.

You obviously didn't watch many Mavs games last year.

Bruno
10-15-2014, 07:45 PM
Spurs-Mavs-Rockets

Spurs are the defending champs, and there's precedence for a returning finals loser to go back to back (LAL and MIA have both pulled this off since 2008).

Dallas took SA to seven games last year and they've been able to add Chandler & Chandler. they've only gotten better since last season.

Rockets have a great 1-2 punch and a good defender at the point, but they've lost Chandler, Lin and Osik. ariza is a good pick up but he just got paid, so there's some concern there based off the past. they have the most to prove out of the three teams and arguably the least amount of talent.

Htownballa1622
10-15-2014, 07:56 PM
It amazes me the Rockets were the only team to lose people yet Dallas didn't lose anything somehow.

Also, Mavs were one shot away from losing in 6 so I don't care they took the spurs to 7.

Funny..."what have you done for me lately" ppl

Redrum187
10-15-2014, 08:13 PM
It amazes me the Rockets were the only team to lose people yet Dallas didn't lose anything somehow.

Also, Mavs were one shot away from losing in 6 so I don't care they took the spurs to 7.

Funny..."what have you done for me lately" ppl

Does that mean that the 13 Championship is shared by the Heat and Spurs as the Spurs were one shot away from winning it all? You really lose credibility to me (not a fan of any one team).

Redrum187
10-15-2014, 08:15 PM
1.) Spurs
2.) Mavericks
3.) Rockets (they aren't nearly as bad as people are hoping for though)

Htownballa1622
10-15-2014, 08:21 PM
Does that mean that the 13 Championship is shared by the Heat and Spurs as the Spurs were one shot away from winning it all? You really lose credibility to me (not a fan of any one team).

No because the heat ultimately won the series. Just like the spurs ultimately won the series last year against dallas. So the taking them to 7 is irrelevant imo.

Dang. I really didn't want to lose credibility. :p

mightybosstone
10-15-2014, 08:26 PM
I want to see how this offseason shakes out just a little bit more, but I'm getting dangerously close to wanting to make a sig bet with Mavericks fans. If you're a Mavericks fan, you're convinced the Mavs are going to finish with a better record than the Rockets and you'd like to make a sig bet with a Rockets fan who thinks otherwise, feel free to reply to this or VM me.

I do want to see how the next couple of weeks play out first to make sure there are no last minute trades and to make sure the Rockets bench pieces don't just completely fall apart, but I'll be ready before the start of the season barring anything major.

ragee
10-15-2014, 08:36 PM
lol @thumps

I do believe the Spurs is still the best team in Texas and the Rockets and the Mavs need to really dominate to prove otherwise. However, as far as rankings go, I don't think the Spurs is guaranteed to be on top. Pop does not care about rankings that much IMO. He cares more on his stars getting rests.

I pick the Mavs over the Rockets. Both teams have lost key players but I do think the Mavs have added more to compensate for those losses.

Redrum187
10-15-2014, 08:38 PM
No because the heat ultimately won the series. Just like the spurs ultimately won the series last year against dallas. So the taking them to 7 is irrelevant imo.

Dang. I really didn't want to lose credibility. :p

Winning is the ultimate goal and point, no debating that. However, being an objective fan, you don't just look at W's and L's... especially when comparing 2 completely different teams in terms of superiority. It's one thing to get raped by a team, it's another to hold your own.

Furthermore, you kind of discredit yourself when you say the Heat won. The Mavericks ultimately won that game (where it was by one shot as you say), yet you still put such a high premium on it in an effort to not give credit where it is due. If they ultimate won, then why even mention they were 1 shot away from losing in 6? Also, you ignore game 1 (or game 2 possibly) where the Mavericks had the Spurs on the ropes but lost down the stretch.

If you want people (especially non Dallas fans) to take your opinions seriously, you should care to some degree about credibility, it doesn't have to be from me personally or anything.

Redrum187
10-15-2014, 08:42 PM
I want to see how this offseason shakes out just a little bit more, but I'm getting dangerously close to wanting to make a sig bet with Mavericks fans. If you're a Mavericks fan, you're convinced the Mavs are going to finish with a better record than the Rockets and you'd like to make a sig bet with a Rockets fan who thinks otherwise, feel free to reply to this or VM me.

I do want to see how the next couple of weeks play out first to make sure there are no last minute trades and to make sure the Rockets bench pieces don't just completely fall apart, but I'll be ready before the start of the season barring anything major.

It will definitely be a close one for sure. I disagree with many posters who hate Harden and Howard and try to make them out to be incredibly inferior. If they are, it isn't by much.

Htownballa1622
10-15-2014, 09:01 PM
Winning is the ultimate goal and point, no debating that. However, being an objective fan, you don't just look at W's and L's... especially when comparing 2 completely different teams in terms of superiority. It's one thing to get raped by a team, it's another to hold your own.

Furthermore, you kind of discredit yourself when you say the Heat won. The Mavericks ultimately won that game (where it was by one shot as you say), yet you still put such a high premium on it in an effort to not give credit where it is due. If they ultimate won, then why even mention they were 1 shot away from losing in 6? Also, you ignore game 1 (or game 2 possibly) where the Mavericks had the Spurs on the ropes but lost down the stretch.

If you want people (especially non Dallas fans) to take your opinions seriously, you should care to some degree about credibility, it doesn't have to be from me personally or anything.

I'm not discrediting that they took them to 7 but I don't think it should be a factor to now since the team was different.

Match ups are a lot in playoffs and I feel mavs matched up well with spurs last year.

My point was that ppl only try to fit what's their argument without looking at the totality of it all.

Did u not see what the post above mine said? He claimed Dallas went to 7 with spurs and only added chandler and chandler (yet he ignored them losing pieces)

context is key. Do u get what I'm saying now?

Bruno
10-15-2014, 09:37 PM
I want to see how this offseason shakes out just a little bit more, but I'm getting dangerously close to wanting to make a sig bet with Mavericks fans. If you're a Mavericks fan, you're convinced the Mavs are going to finish with a better record than the Rockets and you'd like to make a sig bet with a Rockets fan who thinks otherwise, feel free to reply to this or VM me.

I do want to see how the next couple of weeks play out first to make sure there are no last minute trades and to make sure the Rockets bench pieces don't just completely fall apart, but I'll be ready before the start of the season barring anything major.

it should be who goes deeper into the playoffs.

Redrum187
10-15-2014, 10:35 PM
I'm not discrediting that they took them to 7 but I don't think it should be a factor to now since the team was different.

Match ups are a lot in playoffs and I feel mavs matched up well with spurs last year.

My point was that ppl only try to fit what's their argument without looking at the totality of it all.

Did u not see what the post above mine said? He claimed Dallas went to 7 with spurs and only added chandler and chandler (yet he ignored them losing pieces)

context is key. Do u get what I'm saying now?

I get what you're saying, and you can make a case that the upgrades they made created a disadvantage in a Maverick-Spurs match-up. I think most people strongly disagree with that though (as do I).

I think their case in that if they went to 7 games with the inferior squad, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that they could possibly beat them with an upgraded squad (granted, you don't think it's an upgrade when you match them up with the Spurs).

Htownballa1622
10-15-2014, 10:46 PM
I get what you're saying, and you can make a case that the upgrades they made created a disadvantage in a Maverick-Spurs match-up. I think most people strongly disagree with that though (as do I).

I think their case in that if they went to 7 games with the inferior squad, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that they could possibly beat them with an upgraded squad (granted, you don't think it's an upgrade when you match them up with the Spurs).

I had to re read what you're saying but yeah I understand. I just don't think they are MUCH better this year than last year. That's not to say they didn't get better though.

Ppl think they're a top 4 seed. I instead see 5-8 more likely.

That's better than last year though as last year they barely got in.

True Rocket
10-15-2014, 11:32 PM
So let me get this straight....

Rockets #1 weakness last year was perimeter defense, so they add Trevor Ariza who is a top 5 defensive player at this position who shoot the three above 40 percent. The Rockets lost Parsons who was an below average defender and average 3pt shooter. Parsons may be a better overall player but Ariza is easily an upgrade for the Rockets at half the price. If the Rockets had Ariza instead of Parsons last year in the playoffs they would've made it to the second round.

The Rockets will miss Lins playmaking but that's about it. I am confident Smith/Cannan/Johnson will make up for his production Lin did not fit and cost us a playoff game last year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh_wLpQjh6k


Omer Asik will be greatly missed. He is a top 15 center. He was extremely unmotivated last season but was still very solid. Luckily for the Rockets they have the best center in the league still.

can somebody please explain to me how the Mavericks are suppose to be better then the Rockets? I am confused...Because everyone knows the Rockets are already one of the best offensive teams in the league defense was their only knock. Now they have 3 elite defenders in their starting 5. Harden and Howard won 54 games in their first season together, why are people expecting them to not to get better with more chemistry between the two now? People act like James Harden isn't going to get better.

I am confused how the Mavericks adding Parsons, Felton and Tyson Chandler makes them an elite team in the west. Idk, maybe it's just because I know the real Parsons and the impact he will have. What are people expecting from Chandler Parsons?

Seizabmc
10-15-2014, 11:39 PM
1-spurs
2-spurs
3-mavericks

I didn't list the rockets because they don't deserve to be mentioned along with the spurs and the mavs.
The rockets are garbage!!! .

DemarDerozan
10-15-2014, 11:46 PM
Spurs- best record in west
Mavs- 4-5 seed


Rockets... Lotto bound. Make way for the Suns and Pelicans.

I see the 8 seed as a fight between NO, SAC and HOU. With the Rockets going home.

True Rocket
10-16-2014, 01:02 AM
Spurs- best record in west
Mavs- 4-5 seed


Rockets... Lotto bound. Make way for the Suns and Pelicans.

I see the 8 seed as a fight between NO, SAC and HOU. With the Rockets going home.

Yeah I am 100 percent sure you don't know anything about the Rockets. Harden got the 8th seed on his own year one in Houston..

Lmao if you seriously think the best SG and center in the league on the same team aren't making the playoffs.

If you replace any teams best two players with Harden and Howard they are making the playoffs.

DemarDerozan
10-16-2014, 01:11 AM
Yeah I am 100 percent sure you don't know anything about the Rockets. Harden got the 8th seed on his own year one in Houston..

Lmao if you seriously think the best SG and center in the league on the same team aren't making the playoffs.

I'm pretty sure the best Center in the league plays for either the Bulls or the Kings...
Wait. Are you saying Monts Ellis was traded?

Monta, Demar, Klay, Beal, Healthy Kobe/DWade and Lance are >>> better than streaky no D Harden.

True Rocket
10-16-2014, 01:14 AM
I'm pretty sure the best Center in the league plays for either the Bulls or the Kings...
Wait. Are you saying Monts Ellis was traded?

Monta, Demar, Klay, Beal, Healthy Kobe/DWade and Lance are >>> better than streaky no D Harden.

Lmao! Thanks for proving my point.

latinofire21
10-16-2014, 01:51 AM
Yeah I am 100 percent sure you don't know anything about the Rockets. Harden got the 8th seed on his own year one in Houston..

Lmao if you seriously think the best SG and center in the league on the same team aren't making the playoffs.

If you replace any teams best two players with Harden and Howard they are making the playoffs.

Neither is on the rockets. Marc Gasol is better than Dwight Howard among other bigs in the league. Dwight is top 5. Harden is not the best sg in the league. Don't even make an argument to say otherwise. thanks.

MonroeFAN
10-16-2014, 08:48 AM
I don't believe that any of those players are better than Harden, but I still don't think Houston is a very good basketball team.

True Rocket, your post reminds me of the menu at Texas Roadhouse. The pictures in the menu show incredible portions, but what you get is some deflated piece of meat. Ariza is a journey man. It's been documented (time and time again) that he plays well during contract years. He's definitely a nice addition, but it doesn't out weigh losing a better offensive player, the best back up center in the league, and a SMOY candidate. Every Houston fan who is participating in this topic is spouting off at the mouth with names that no one has even heard of. I hope they're good for you, and that Houston can prove me wrong because I do feel like a lot of the hate they get is unjustified.

I don't think they're better than Dallas. I didn't think they were better than Dallas last year. I view Houston as being considerably worse than they were last year, but based on the comments here maybe I'm wrong.

Thumper 88
10-16-2014, 08:58 AM
Thank you for all the laughs this morning :laugh:

MonroeFAN
10-16-2014, 09:05 AM
This is why people don't like the Rockets ladies and gents, right there. Despite every fact that has been mentioned in this topic, we have someone rolling on the floor laughing at the suggestion that a team who went further in the playoffs last season and made big time signings during the off-season is better than they are.

aLau10
10-16-2014, 09:16 AM
I had to re read what you're saying but yeah I understand. I just don't think they are MUCH better this year than last year. That's not to say they didn't get better though.

Ppl think they're a top 4 seed. I instead see 5-8 more likely.

That's better than last year though as last year they barely got in.

It'll be hard for the 1-3 seed. But I see this team in somewhere btw 4-6 seed?
I'm not a Mavs fan, but I do like the team (simply a personal appreciation thing) and I see them going far.

aLau10
10-16-2014, 10:21 AM
So let me get this straight....

Rockets #1 weakness last year was perimeter defense, so they add Trevor Ariza who is a top 5 defensive player at this position who shoot the three above 40 percent. The Rockets lost Parsons who was an below average defender and average 3pt shooter. Parsons may be a better overall player but Ariza is easily an upgrade for the Rockets at half the price. If the Rockets had Ariza instead of Parsons last year in the playoffs they would've made it to the second round.

Ariza can arguably be top 5 but I wouldn't definitely say he is top 5...PG, LeBron, Kawhi, Iggy, Deng... Ariza is better than Parson though for sure. However, I disagree with Parson being a below average defender. He is not stellar or great, but he's probably a bit better than average on defense.


can somebody please explain to me how the Mavericks are suppose to be better then the Rockets? I am confused...Because everyone knows the Rockets are already one of the best offensive teams in the league defense was their only knock. Now they have 3 elite defenders in their starting 5. Harden and Howard won 54 games in their first season together, why are people expecting them to not to get better with more chemistry between the two now? People act like James Harden isn't going to get better.

I am confused how the Mavericks adding Parsons, Felton and Tyson Chandler makes them an elite team in the west. Idk, maybe it's just because I know the real Parsons and the impact he will have. What are people expecting from Chandler Parsons?

Sorry who are the 3 elite defenders? I would only really count Ariza and Howard elite, unless I'm missing someone... Rockets is still a good team, and not saying Mavs are elite, but I personally think Felton is an ugrade to Caldy, Parson is an upgrade to Marion, and Chandler an upgrade to Dalembert. The only key thing is they lost VC as a 6th man, but they have other role players that can somewhat compensate for it. Im not neccesarily arguing the Mavs are better than the Rockets at this particular moment, but more so of how can you not see the Mavs got better.

omdigga
10-16-2014, 10:31 AM
Ariza can arguably be top 5 but I wouldn't definitely say he is top 5...PG, LeBron, Kawhi, Iggy, Deng... Ariza is better than Parson though for sure. However, I disagree with Parson being a below average defender. He is not stellar or great, but he's probably a bit better than average on defense.



Sorry who are the 3 elite defenders? I would only really count Ariza and Howard elite, unless I'm missing someone... Rockets is still a good team, and not saying Mavs are elite, but I personally think Felton is an ugrade to Caldy, Parson is an upgrade to Marion, and Chandler an upgrade to Dalembert. The only key thing is they lost VC as a 6th man, but they have other role players that can somewhat compensate for it. Im not neccesarily arguing the Mavs are better than the Rockets at this particular moment, but more so of how can you not see the Mavs got better.

CMON MAN!!! i spit up some coffee reading this.. thanks.

aLau10
10-16-2014, 10:46 AM
CMON MAN!!! i spit up some coffee reading this.. thanks.

For the Mavs, with the team they have? Felton provides them with the backcourt defence and doesn't necessarily provide 0 offense. He can still hit the 3 and drop a few dimes. But yes, shouldnt say an upgrade, but rather a better fit for the team. That's what I meant.

jericho
10-16-2014, 11:14 AM
For the Mavs, with the team they have? Felton provides them with the backcourt defence and doesn't necessarily provide 0 offense. He can still hit the 3 and drop a few dimes. But yes, shouldnt say an upgrade, but rather a better fit for the team. That's what I meant.

I dont think you have seen Felton play this past couple seasons with the knicks.

Thumper 88
10-16-2014, 11:22 AM
Felton will be a 3rd backup for the Mavs.

Nelson will be the starter with Harris coming off the bench

Htownballa1622
10-16-2014, 11:25 AM
I don't believe that any of those players are better than Harden, but I still don't think Houston is a very good basketball team.

True Rocket, your post reminds me of the menu at Texas Roadhouse. The pictures in the menu show incredible portions, but what you get is some deflated piece of meat. Ariza is a journey man. It's been documented (time and time again) that he plays well during contract years. He's definitely a nice addition, but it doesn't out weigh losing a better offensive player, the best back up center in the league, and a SMOY candidate. Every Houston fan who is participating in this topic is spouting off at the mouth with names that no one has even heard of. I hope they're good for you, and that Houston can prove me wrong because I do feel like a lot of the hate they get is unjustified.

I don't think they're better than Dallas. I didn't think they were better than Dallas last year. I view Houston as being considerably worse than they were last year, but based on the comments here maybe I'm wrong.

I don't think you've watched enough to really know but we shall see.


This is why people don't like the Rockets ladies and gents, right there. Despite every fact that has been mentioned in this topic, we have someone rolling on the floor laughing at the suggestion that a team who went further in the playoffs last season and made big time signings during the off-season is better than they are.

I think Thumper is a Mavs fan though….If you're referring to him laughing.


It'll be hard for the 1-3 seed. But I see this team in somewhere btw 4-6 seed?
I'm not a Mavs fan, but I do like the team (simply a personal appreciation thing) and I see them going far.

Well then that's fine. Notice you said 4-6 while I said 5-8? Not much difference.

aLau10
10-16-2014, 11:25 AM
I dont think you have seen Felton play this past couple seasons with the knicks.

I didn't watch much, but the few games I see he was playing decent ball.

Jamiecballer
10-16-2014, 12:14 PM
You obviously didn't watch many Mavs games last year.
Savvy vets often have an impact beyond their own performance. See 2013/14 knicks. I'm not predicting a meltdown here but intelligent play is often severely underrated in prediction threads.

aLau10
10-16-2014, 01:29 PM
Well then that's fine. Notice you said 4-6 while I said 5-8? Not much difference.

4-6 and 5-8 is not head to shoulders but its different man. Atleast how I feel is that Mavs will be like '06.

TheIlladelph16
10-16-2014, 02:24 PM
I'm pretty sure the best Center in the league plays for either the Bulls or the Kings...
Wait. Are you saying Monts Ellis was traded?

Monta, Demar, Klay, Beal, Healthy Kobe/DWade and Lance are >>> better than streaky no D Harden.

Jesus dude.... In one sentence you've basically lost any credibility on evaluating NBA players. Harden is better than every single player on that list including a healthy Kobe and DWade considering their current age and production trends.

The C quip is much more debatable, but I would take Howard over both Noah and Cousins. Especially Cousins. From a basketball standpoint, Dwight manages to be pretty d*mn underrated around here.

mightybosstone
10-16-2014, 03:19 PM
Neither is on the rockets. Marc Gasol is better than Dwight Howard among other bigs in the league. Dwight is top 5. Harden is not the best sg in the league. Don't even make an argument to say otherwise. thanks.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if you don't think Harden is the best SG in the league, you're definitely in the minority. The vast, vast majority of NBA fans and analysts rank him the best at his position, and there really isn't a close second right now. However, while everyone is entitled to their opinion, if you don't think there's even an argument to be made for Harden as the best SG in the league, you're a complete fool.

As for Dwight, I don't know if he's the best as his position in the league. I think you could make a strong case for several guys, including Noah, Dwight, Gasol and maybe Cousins, Jefferson and a healthy Brook Lopez. Duncan would certainly be in that conversation as well if he's considered a C, which is debatable.

But the bottom line is that the Rockets have one of the best duos in the NBA and two remarkably talented players. Feel free to disagree with that. I assure you that it's still true regardless.

mightybosstone
10-16-2014, 03:21 PM
Thank you for all the laughs this morning :laugh:

Instead of just clicking on laughing emoticons and being a sarcastic tool, how about getting in the discussion and actually adding something of value to the conversation?

Thumper 88
10-16-2014, 03:43 PM
Instead of just clicking on laughing emoticons and being a sarcastic tool, how about getting in the discussion and actually adding something of value to the conversation?

Because I got tired of talking about how much Houston improved this off season and how great their bench is. Some people just can't see it but it's clear you can :)

mightybosstone
10-16-2014, 03:48 PM
Because I got tired of talking about how much Houston improved this off season and how great their bench is. Some people just can't see it but it's clear you can :)

No one is saying their bench is great. Hell, I'd say it's average at best. But it's much better than what they had at the end of last season, which is the point i'm trying to make. If you don't believe me, then don't. You could even grow a pair of testicles and make some legitimate basketball points to counter my argument if you'd like. Hell, I'd welcome it at this point. But this passive aggressive ******** amuses nobody. It's unfunny and uninspired. That's certainly not how you gain respect.

Thumper 88
10-16-2014, 04:46 PM
Ohhh gezz.. sign me up for some PSD respect points please! :laugh:

True Rocket
10-16-2014, 05:34 PM
Neither is on the rockets. Marc Gasol is better than Dwight Howard among other bigs in the league. Dwight is top 5. Harden is not the best sg in the league. Don't even make an argument to say otherwise. thanks.

Every gm in the league would take Dwight Howard over Marc Gasol. Lol what do you mean don't even make an argument? You seriously think Harden being named the best SG in the league isn't debatable? Please just watch some Rockets game this year and not the defensive juggernaut video. There is a reason why this guy has started the past two all star games , got named to all NBA team 1 and finished 5th in MVP voting. I understand if you want to give Kobe the crown because of what he was doing before his injury but to say that there cannot be an argument made is absolutely idiotic.

latinofire21
10-17-2014, 07:52 AM
Every gm in the league would take Dwight Howard over Marc Gasol. Lol what do you mean don't even make an argument? You seriously think Harden being named the best SG in the league isn't debatable? Please just watch some Rockets game this year and not the defensive juggernaut video. There is a reason why this guy has started the past two all star games , got named to all NBA team 1 and finished 5th in MVP voting. I understand if you want to give Kobe the crown because of what he was doing before his injury but to say that there cannot be an argument made is absolutely idiotic.

That's just simply incorrect. Every GM wouldn't take a feeble minded center that has lost his dominance after a back injury. I personally would still take Marc Gasol over him. He is just as good a defender and a much better offensive force. Demarcus Cousins I would take ahead of him as well. He falls into line after those 2 and debates can be made for other bigs.

As for as Harden. The dude hasn't found a shot he doesn't like. He didn't show up in the playoffs. He also gets bailed out by the refs a lot and goes to the foul line. His stats are really skewed if it wasn't for all the free throws he takes. There are much more efficient options and better fitting team options then Harden. He's a great player who knows how to create contact and draw a foul but past that he is an inefficient chucker that should not be considered the best shooting guard in the league. that's just laughable.

latinofire21
10-17-2014, 07:58 AM
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if you don't think Harden is the best SG in the league, you're definitely in the minority. The vast, vast majority of NBA fans and analysts rank him the best at his position, and there really isn't a close second right now. However, while everyone is entitled to their opinion, if you don't think there's even an argument to be made for Harden as the best SG in the league, you're a complete fool.

As for Dwight, I don't know if he's the best as his position in the league. I think you could make a strong case for several guys, including Noah, Dwight, Gasol and maybe Cousins, Jefferson and a healthy Brook Lopez. Duncan would certainly be in that conversation as well if he's considered a C, which is debatable.

But the bottom line is that the Rockets have one of the best duos in the NBA and two remarkably talented players. Feel free to disagree with that. I assure you that it's still true regardless.

The one thing I can agree with is the Duo statement. I am not a complete fool. Harden is a bonafide chucker. They wont go deep in any playoff run without a third superstar. If he was really the best at his position they wouldn't have needed to try and upgrade Parsons.

Shaq and Kobe did it and by the opinion of your fan base you guys believe you have the best shooting guard and Center in the game. Just not true. Maybe if you had Dwight when he was in Orlando you can say that but he has lost some of his game after that injury.

Link me some articles talking about how Harden is regarded the best shooting guard at his position and there really isn't a close second. I would love to see that. For the league in general there are a lot of guys who play point guard that are really combo guards and quite a few of them I would take over Harden without question. He isn't a Kobe Bryant. I don't think he ever will be either.

mightybosstone
10-17-2014, 09:12 AM
The one thing I can agree with is the Duo statement. I am not a complete fool. Harden is a bonafide chucker. They wont go deep in any playoff run without a third superstar.
:laugh: I don't think you have any freaking clue what a "chucker" is. James Harden is the very opposite of a chucker. Chuckers don't take 67% of their shot attempts from around the rim and beyond the arc and chuckers don't post a 61.8% TS% (fifth best in the league). If you think he's a chucker, you truly are clueless.


If he was really the best at his position they wouldn't have needed to try and upgrade Parsons.
What? Since when did upgrading at one position have anything to do with another position? Also, what the hell are you talking about? They never tried to upgrade Parsons.They went after Lebron and Melo, who would have likely been stretch 4s in this offense, and then they made a push for Bosh, who was clearly a stretch 4. At no point did t hey try to upgrade Parsons.

On the contrary, they had so much faith in Harden and Howard offensively that they let Parsons walk to sign a lesser offensive player in Ariza.


Shaq and Kobe did it and by the opinion of your fan base you guys believe you have the best shooting guard and Center in the game. Just not true. Maybe if you had Dwight when he was in Orlando you can say that but he has lost some of his game after that injury.
If you even read ANYTHING that I said, you would have seen that I don't necessarily think Dwight is hands down the best center in the league. He might be, but it might as easily be two or three other guys. But even if he was the best center in the league, what does that have anything to do with Shaq and Kobe? Peak Shaq was a superior player to peak Dwight, and Dwight's not even in his prime anymore. This era just doesn't have nearly as much talent at the center position as the league did 15+ years ago. You don't have to be a genius to figure that out.


Link me some articles talking about how Harden is regarded the best shooting guard at his position and there really isn't a close second. I would love to see that. For the league in general there are a lot of guys who play point guard that are really combo guards and quite a few of them I would take over Harden without question. He isn't a Kobe Bryant. I don't think he ever will be either.
http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/01/nba-shooting-guards/james-harden
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2201974-ranking-the-top-10-shooting-guards-in-the-nba-heading-into-2014-15/page/11
http://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/sports/nba/2013/10/07/15-best-shooting-guards-in-the-nba-for-2013-14-season/2939817/
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2013-09-24/nba-rankings-shooting-guards-james-harden-kobe-bryant-dwyane-wade-joe-johnson/slide/1
http://theleaguenews.us/top-10-shooting-guards-going-into-2013-2014/11/
http://www.vavel.com/en-us/nba/380191-top-5-shooting-guards-going-into-the-2014-2015-nba-season.html
http://www.nba.com/magic/gallery/cohen-8ball-projecting-best-nba-shooting-guards-2014-15
http://thehoopdoctors.com/2014/08/2014-player-rankings-top-10-nba-shooting-guards/#11

There may not be an article that specifically states that there isn't a close second, but the sheer number of lists that rank him at the top pretty much proves my point otherwise. Hell, some of these lists were before last season, so he's been the best SG at his position for two years running. I don't care how you try to qualify it or who you try to compare him to. James Harden is the best SG in the NBA today until someone proves otherwise. Period.

MonroeFAN
10-17-2014, 09:54 AM
This doesn't seem to be going well Latinofire.

latinofire21
10-17-2014, 12:05 PM
This doesn't seem to be going well Latinofire.

Ginobli and Kobe I take over harden. I would also take Stephen curry over harden since harden is more of a combo guard than shooting guard.

latinofire21
10-17-2014, 12:07 PM
The rockets are going to miss Parsons big time. Ill be rooting for the Mavs in the west. They look so good.

Htownballa1622
10-17-2014, 12:12 PM
Ginobli and Kobe I take over harden. I would also take Stephen curry over harden since harden is more of a combo guard than shooting guard.

If you took Manu and Kobe over Harden today as your lead guy, you would be a terrible gm.

At this stage of their careers they aren't superior to someone entering their prime like Harden.

Curry is a fair one because he's a stud too but that's not the point as I'd rather have lebron or durant over Harden too.

MonroeFAN
10-17-2014, 12:15 PM
Ginobli and Kobe? Come on man. Curry I think is a better player, but he's a point guard.

He is EASILY the best offensive 2 guard in the league. He's an efficient scorer, and one heck of a facilitator. The things you are saying aren't true. I don't like Houston as a team either, but you can't just make this up.

latinofire21
10-17-2014, 12:28 PM
Ginobli and Kobe? Come on man. Curry I think is a better player, but he's a point guard.

He is EASILY the best offensive 2 guard in the league. He's an efficient scorer, and one heck of a facilitator. The things you are saying aren't true. I don't like Houston as a team either, but you can't just make this up.

Half the time Harden brings the ball up himself and the point plays off the ball. Its not hard to argue that. He is ball dominant. I'm not building a team here because if I was I would take Harden simply because Ginobli and Kobe are old. Harden is not the best shooting guard in the league.

MonroeFAN
10-17-2014, 12:33 PM
Gonna have to agree to disagree here.

mightybosstone
10-17-2014, 01:03 PM
Ginobli and Kobe I take over harden. I would also take Stephen curry over harden since harden is more of a combo guard than shooting guard.


The rockets are going to miss Parsons big time. Ill be rooting for the Mavs in the west. They look so good.


Half the time Harden brings the ball up himself and the point plays off the ball. Its not hard to argue that. He is ball dominant. I'm not building a team here because if I was I would take Harden simply because Ginobli and Kobe are old. Harden is not the best shooting guard in the league.

I love how you completely ignored my post yet again. That seems to be your strategy. You spew out inflammatory comments with no evidence to back them up and then when someone comes in and proves you completely wrong you just ignore those points rather than have a legitimate basketball discussion.

You can go ahead and believe that Harden isn't the best SG in the league. But that doesn't make you right, and it certainly doesn't make any of your nonsensical criticisms to be true.

latinofire21
10-17-2014, 02:20 PM
I love how you completely ignored my post yet again. That seems to be your strategy. You spew out inflammatory comments with no evidence to back them up and then when someone comes in and proves you completely wrong you just ignore those points rather than have a legitimate basketball discussion.

You can go ahead and believe that Harden isn't the best SG in the league. But that doesn't make you right, and it certainly doesn't make any of your nonsensical criticisms to be true.

Mightybosstone,

I will write to you in a personal letter. Clearly you feel frustrated when you go spending hours digging up information for your arguments like its a thesis paper. I asked you to find me articles that said Harden was clearly the number 1 shooting guard in the league and there is no one even close to being second. I am still waiting for those articles. I see you list articles where the writer lists him as number 1 but again no where in any of those articles does it say there is no one even close to him as number 2. Its a writers opinion and you also quoted bleacherrreport. the tmz of sports. Please find me the articles I requested or change your base argument.

Thanks,

A real Basketball fan who plays the game and doesn't crunch the numbers

MonroeFAN
10-17-2014, 02:26 PM
I'm sorry dude, he's listing facts and you're just arguing semantics.

I would be frustrated too.

Saddletramp
10-17-2014, 02:33 PM
Ginobli and Kobe I take over harden. I would also take Stephen curry over harden since harden is more of a combo guard than shooting guard.




Half the time Harden brings the ball up himself and the point plays off the ball. Its not hard to argue that. He is ball dominant. I'm not building a team here because if I was I would take Harden simply because Ginobli and Kobe are old. Harden is not the best shooting guard in the league.

Lol, amigo. You don't even agree with yourself.

mightybosstone
10-17-2014, 02:47 PM
Mightybosstone,

I will write to you in a personal letter. Clearly you feel frustrated when you go spending hours digging up information for your arguments like its a thesis paper. I asked you to find me articles that said Harden was clearly the number 1 shooting guard in the league and there is no one even close to being second. I am still waiting for those articles. I see you list articles where the writer lists him as number 1 but again no where in any of those articles does it say there is no one even close to him as number 2. Its a writers opinion and you also quoted bleacherrreport. the tmz of sports. Please find me the articles I requested or change your base argument.

Thanks,

A real Basketball fan who plays the game and doesn't crunch the numbers

You're laughable. You want me to find a specific article that states those exact words? That's ridiculous. Whereas anyone with common sense could look at the sheer number of opinions that back my argument and realize that Harden is clearly considered to be the consensus No. 1 SG in the league. Hell, all I asked you to do was find a single source that stated that Kyle Lowry was a contract-year player, and you couldn't even do that.

As for the time I spend "digging up information," it took me all of 10 minutes to make that entire post earlier. Anybody can Google something or go to Basketball Reference and pull up numbers to prove an argument. It's really easy. You claimed Harden was a chucker and I provided numbers that proved otherwise. You claimed he's not the best SG in the league and I found more than half a dozen sources that suggest otherwise.

You have yet to find a single source to back up anything you say. And then you criticize me for actually providing evidence for my argument. I can't tell if you're really that incompetent or just lazy, but I'm going to assume that it's both.

MonroeFAN
10-17-2014, 02:50 PM
^He's a real basketball player though.

That > Logic and facts.

latinofire21
10-17-2014, 03:07 PM
^He's a real basketball player though.

That > Logic and facts.

+1

If you don't think Harden is a combo guard then you wouldn't understand my argument. Also if you don't have reading comprehension skills you would think I negated myself in previous arguments. I stated Harden would be the obvious choice by any gm because of the ages of Kobe and Ginobli. If they are in their primes I take both over Harden if I am starting a team. I am not starting a team and I am simply stating who will be better this season. Ginobli and Kobe will be better this season.

I really cant wait to hear the arguments as everyone sees Dallas as the clear second best team in Texas and Houston fighting for a playoff spot.

Mightbosstone writes: Its clear as day that the offseason turmoil in Houston caused a psychiatric meltdown for the regular season for Houston. If the referees would just read Newtons Pythagorean Therum for the XYZ User ratios it would be clear as day that the extra two passes they did per possession last season created approximately 47 percent higher shot percentages. If the referees could just see that the forward movement of the defender going into Dwight Howard is effecting his ball rotation they would clearly win more games. I mean I can measure the weight displacement from my Television screen. Heres my protractor check it out for yourself. Please if you don't want to measure read these articles they will clearly back these facts up. I don't understand how any knowledgeable basketball fan doesn't understand these matrices!

Articles:
http://learnbodylanguage.org/body_language_dominance.html
http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/factsheets/entry/gorilla/behav
http://www.vibe.com/article/how-grow-beard-rick-ross-or-james-harden

Sometimes I wonder if people understand basketball. Wow

Sincerely,

Mightybosstone :)

astrosmaniac
10-17-2014, 05:39 PM
Half the time Harden brings the ball up himself and the point plays off the ball. Its not hard to argue that. He is ball dominant. I'm not building a team here because if I was I would take Harden simply because Ginobli and Kobe are old. Harden is not the best shooting guard in the league.

Sounds an awful lot like Kobe in the triangle under Jackson for all of the 2000s


Mightybosstone,

I will write to you in a personal letter. Clearly you feel frustrated when you go spending hours digging up information for your arguments like its a thesis paper. I asked you to find me articles that said Harden was clearly the number 1 shooting guard in the league and there is no one even close to being second. I am still waiting for those articles. I see you list articles where the writer lists him as number 1 but again no where in any of those articles does it say there is no one even close to him as number 2. Its a writers opinion and you also quoted bleacherrreport. the tmz of sports. Please find me the articles I requested or change your base argument.

Thanks,

A real Basketball fan who plays the game and doesn't crunch the numbers

So you ask for articles (a writer's opinion) and then you refute him because he gives you a link to someone's opinion. Sounds legit to me.

He also linked you 8 articles and you give him crap because 1 of them is bleacher report. Do you want me to give you the link to ESPN's NBA player rankings for 2014 where Kobe is 40 and behind SGs like Wade, Thompson, and Derozan? They haven't revealed the top 30, but i'm pretty confident Harden will be higher than both Manu or Kobe

astrosmaniac
10-17-2014, 05:50 PM
+1

If you don't think Harden is a combo guard then you wouldn't understand my argument. Also if you don't have reading comprehension skills you would think I negated myself in previous arguments. I stated Harden would be the obvious choice by any gm because of the ages of Kobe and Ginobli. If they are in their primes I take both over Harden if I am starting a team. I am not starting a team and I am simply stating who will be better this season. Ginobli and Kobe will be better this season.

I really cant wait to hear the arguments as everyone sees Dallas as the clear second best team in Texas and Houston fighting for a playoff spot.

Mightbosstone writes: Its clear as day that the offseason turmoil in Houston caused a psychiatric meltdown for the regular season for Houston. If the referees would just read Newtons Pythagorean Therum for the XYZ User ratios it would be clear as day that the extra two passes they did per possession last season created approximately 47 percent higher shot percentages. If the referees could just see that the forward movement of the defender going into Dwight Howard is effecting his ball rotation they would clearly win more games. I mean I can measure the weight displacement from my Television screen. Heres my protractor check it out for yourself. Please if you don't want to measure read these articles they will clearly back these facts up. I don't understand how any knowledgeable basketball fan doesn't understand these matrices!

Articles:
http://learnbodylanguage.org/body_language_dominance.html
http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/factsheets/entry/gorilla/behav
http://www.vibe.com/article/how-grow-beard-rick-ross-or-james-harden

Sometimes I wonder if people understand basketball. Wow

Sincerely,

Mightybosstone :)

No **** you would take prime Kobe or Ginobli over Harden. You're talking about 2 HOFers and one of the 10 best players to ever play the game. That doesn't make them better now, nor did anyone here try to claim that Harden is better than either of them in their primes.

That's fine, I'll wait and laugh when the Rockets are just as good as they were last year. I, like most common sense fans, admit that the Mavs got better. It's just a matter of to what degree, and people will disagree on that regardless of what team you're a fan of.

And your attempt at humor/satire/whatever the hell that piece of **** last paragraph was is really pathetic. How are you going to critisize someone for posting links to articles when YOU ASKED FOR HIM TO LINK YOU TO ARTICLES?! Like, are you taking crazy pills or something


Link me some articles talking about how Harden is regarded the best shooting guard at his position

Saddletramp
10-17-2014, 06:02 PM
Ginobli and Kobe I take over harden. I would also take Stephen curry over harden since harden is more of a combo guard than shooting guard.




Half the time Harden brings the ball up himself and the point plays off the ball. Its not hard to argue that. He is ball dominant. I'm not building a team here because if I was I would take Harden simply because Ginobli and Kobe are old. Harden is not the best shooting guard in the league.

Lol, amigo. You don't even agree with yourself.

Then you go back and contradict yourself again:

I am not starting a team and I am simply stating who will be better this season. Ginobli and Kobe will be better this season.

Seriously, you just keep digging yourself deeper. You're out of your league with MBT. Move on.

Goose17
10-17-2014, 06:35 PM
If we're counting Dragic as an SG give me him over Harden.

Just putting it out there.

Goose17
10-17-2014, 06:38 PM
Seriously, you just keep digging yourself deeper. You're out of your league with MBT. Move on.

wait... how did mbt get a hype man? I want a hype man. That isn't fair.

Saddletramp
10-17-2014, 09:29 PM
How am I being a hype man? Just trying to do the guy a favor; he's obviously making himself look silly.

Mr.B
10-17-2014, 11:16 PM
Did I actually see someone write that Jason Terry puts Houston over the top and makes them better than San Antonio? Man you guys are delusional! Haha!

Also to anyone who thinks that losing Vince Carter is a huge insurmountable loss obviously didn't watch every Mavs game the last two years. Carter did make plays from time to time and did hit a big shot in the playoffs last year but those plays were few and far between. There were numerous games where he completely disappeared. Richard Jefferson will be an equal replacement for Carter. Remember this is not the Toronto Vince Carter or even the New Jersey Vince Carter. And Marion is one of the worst offensive players in the NBA.

In the end the Mavs got younger and more athletic and Houston got older. The Spurs are still the Best until someone else proves otherwise.

1. Spurs
2. Mavs
3. Rockets

Htownballa1622
10-17-2014, 11:26 PM
That was a Dallas fan sarcastically hyping up the Rockets with that Terry comment.

SPURSFAN1
10-17-2014, 11:32 PM
I'd take manu over harden just for the sole purpose of playing in the playoffs.

Saddletramp
10-17-2014, 11:36 PM
That was a Dallas fan sarcastically hyping up the Rockets with that Terry comment.


*Yup


100% agree.

I think getting Jason Terry really put them over the top and I might even rank them higher than the spurs.

And ariza is a way better fit than Parsons.

I also think they will make a big trade since they didn't accept the parsons contact.

Also, how did the Mavs get younger when they brought in Chandler, Jefferson, Villenueva, Nelson, Felton..... Yeah they lost VC and Marion and added Parsons but I wouldn't say they got younger. And the Rockets really didn't get much older, if at all. They added Terry and a bunch of young guys.

Thumper 88
10-17-2014, 11:50 PM
^i need a pocket PSD beeoch... How do I get one?

Mr.B
10-18-2014, 02:54 PM
*Yup



Also, how did the Mavs get younger when they brought in Chandler, Jefferson, Villenueva, Nelson, Felton..... Yeah they lost VC and Marion and added Parsons but I wouldn't say they got younger. And the Rockets really didn't get much older, if at all. They added Terry and a bunch of young guys.

Their bench got significantly younger with Aminu, Greg Smith, Ledo, Ivan Johnson, and Eric Griffin, not to mention the addition of Parsons to the starting lineup. They also still have Wright who's young.

Saddletramp
10-18-2014, 07:33 PM
Isn't Ivan Johnson 30? And isn't Ledo on the block already? Some of those other guys are young but not proven, plus Smith and Wright were on the team last year, so I don't know how they got "younger". Plus, those guys aren't game changers. Aminu could be one, but everyone's still waiting on him to do anything in the league and Parsons definitely could get better and be a game changer, but that's debatable with the fat comments, overpay and pressure that comes along with the overpay. That's probably one and a half guys that you can make the "younger" point with.

And you never explained how the Rockets got "older" after I spotted you Terry who was traded (along with a couple a seconds) for dead weight and will probably be traded as an expiring.

Mr.B
10-19-2014, 01:00 AM
Got rid of of Lin and lost Parsons and replaced them with Terry and Ariza. Both older. Rockets also lost Asik off their bench.

And you're right Johnson is 30. You're wrong about Ledo though. He's not the one on the block. Mekel and Bernard James are. Speaking of Mekel he's another one that will surprise a lot of people. Personally I think it's a mistake to trade him but until he is he's a very good passer. Overall the Mavs got younger and the Rockets didn't. Rockets also depleted their bench.

Cal827
10-19-2014, 01:17 AM
Spurs are the best of the three in my opinion, I would assume that's the case with most ppl. I have the Mavs/Rockets at around the same place, maybe fighting for 4/5 in the season lol, but I think they'll each be in the 6-8 range.

Rockets did lose a big cog in Parsons, but they did try to fill the gap with Ariza, which might be a bit better and more cost friendly in the future off-seasons, giving them more money to spend around. Lacking depth, and I don't think that Jason Terry is the Terry of Old lol

The Mavs did acquire a big cog in Parsons, but they did also lose some depth in Carter and Marion. I think they'll really feel Marion's loss, as he's still near elite when it comes to defense. Now they'll be more blow bys, which could expose the other defenders on the team. With Calderon and Carter, the team loses range, and the elite ability to set up shots. Would definitely prefer Calderon over Felton or Nelson at this point. Also, I'm not sure that Chandler now is the Chandler of 2011, which was able to carry the team's interior defense. He's older now, came off an injury prone season, and Dirk is terrible defensively at this point in his career. Hopefully for Mavs fans, he can rebound, or it shows that he excels in the system.

If the Mavericks were able to hold onto Marion, then I might have put them over Houston.

Thumper 88
10-19-2014, 01:37 AM
:laugh:

Mr.B
10-19-2014, 07:32 PM
I wouldn't exactly say Calderon and Carter had elite ability to set up shots. Carter is old as dirt and is a shadow of his former self. Calderon is a good shooter and decent distributor but was often taken out of games by Carlisle and replaced with Harris because he plays horrible defense. Aminu is a younger version of Marion. Marion is a better defender although Aminu is still an above average defender be a better rebounder than Marion.

blahblahyoutoo
10-19-2014, 08:30 PM
c'mon mang. parsons is much better looking than ariza.


1. Spurs (58-60 wins)
2. Rockets (54-56 wins)
3. Mavs (52-54 wins)

I think it's going to be very, very close between those three teams this year. I think the Spurs didn't improve that much from last season and may start to see enough of a decline from their veterans to impact them in the win-loss column while the Rockets and Mavericks both got a little better, but not substantially so.

For those stating that the Rockets got significantly worse, just trust me when I say that you're wrong. The dropoff from Parsons to Ariza is negligible if a dropoff at all, and the bench has gotten a pretty solid influx of young talent in the offseason. Look out for Kostas Popanikalaou, Jeff Adrien, Tarik Black and Nick Johnson. Pop will probably get some major minutes this season, and I'd be surprised if Johnson wasn't on the roster by season's end. Black and Adrien may have to fight for their minutes, but I think they could both work themselves into the rotation with Jones and Motiejunas at the 4/5 with Howard.

The only two concerns I have with this team are the backup PG spot and starting PF spot, but I think Ish, Canaan or Johnson will eventually step up and play well enough to earn the former and they have a lot of depth among their bigs that they didn't have last year.

Mark my words, if Harden and Howard each stay relatively healthy this season, they will win as many or more games than they did last year. I feel pretty damn confident about that right now, especially after watching them in the preseason.

mightybosstone
10-19-2014, 11:06 PM
Got rid of of Lin and lost Parsons and replaced them with Terry and Ariza. Both older. Rockets also lost Asik off their bench.

And you're right Johnson is 30. You're wrong about Ledo though. He's not the one on the block. Mekel and Bernard James are. Speaking of Mekel he's another one that will surprise a lot of people. Personally I think it's a mistake to trade him but until he is he's a very good passer. Overall the Mavs got younger and the Rockets didn't. Rockets also depleted their bench.

Two things:

1. Yeah, the Rockets got slightly older, but why is that such a bad thing? They have been one of the youngest teams in the league for years and adding a few veterans can only help them. The Mavericks, on the flip side, have been a very old basketball team in recent years and needed to get a little young. Age has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

2. I don't buy that the Rockets "depleted their bench." They lost two players, but the rest of their bench at the end of last year was atrocious. I've said this already and I'll continue to say it until people actually read it: the Rockets' 6th and 7th guy may not be as good as last year, but their 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th guy will be much better.

Mr.B
10-19-2014, 11:26 PM
Two things:

1. Yeah, the Rockets got slightly older, but why is that such a bad thing? They have been one of the youngest teams in the league for years and adding a few veterans can only help them. The Mavericks, on the flip side, have been a very old basketball team in recent years and needed to get a little young. Age has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

2. I don't buy that the Rockets "depleted their bench." They lost two players, but the rest of their bench at the end of last year was atrocious. I've said this already and I'll continue to say it until people actually read it: the Rockets' 6th and 7th guy may not be as good as last year, but their 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th guy will be much better.

I agree that age is a little overrated. For what it's worth too I've said on here before that I think the Mavs and Rockets will battle for the 4th seed. Now that KD is out for a while I think the Mavs, Rockets, and Thunder will battle for the 3rd seed.

As for the Rockets roster one guy I've been impressed with is Motiejunas. If anyone is going to make up for the loss of Asik it will be him. He's not a center and a completely different player than Asik but he's pretty crafty in the paint.

Obviously I think the Mavs will come out on top but I'm really looking forward to this season and rivalries can only make the game better and more enjoyable. Especially when it's an in state rivalry.

ThuglifeJ
10-19-2014, 11:38 PM
The Mavericks probably played the Spurs the best in the playoffs before the eventual champions took their crown.

Key offseason losses: Dejuan Blair, Jose Calderon, Samuel Dalembert, Shane Larkin, Shawn Marion, Wayne Ellington



Key offseason losses: hmm maybe the guy who put the most pressure on the Spurs by hitting a gamewinner to go up 2-1 and then dropping like 8 threes a couple games later - Vince Carter?

I'm pretty sure most Mavs fans are upset about losing their guy Vince, followed by Calderon. Those two were key to the Mavs offensive success last season and their biggest hole to fill.


anyways


1.) Spurs




solid gap



2.) Mavericks






large gap



3.) Rockets


Rockets won't make it out of the first round, if they even make the playoffs which is highly questionable.

Redrum187
10-20-2014, 12:05 AM
Key offseason losses: hmm maybe the guy who put the most pressure on the Spurs by hitting a gamewinner to go up 2-1 and then dropping like 8 threes a couple games later - Vince Carter?

I'm pretty sure most Mavs fans are upset about losing their guy Vince, followed by Calderon. Those two were key to the Mavs offensive success last season and their biggest hole to fill.


anyways


1.) Spurs




solid gap



2.) Mavericks






large gap



3.) Rockets


Rockets won't make it out of the first round, if they even make the playoffs which is highly questionable.

"Questionable" maybe, "highly questionable" not really. I think the Mavericks are a slight notch above Houston. It will be fun to see these predictions after 82 regular season games...

ThuglifeJ
10-20-2014, 12:11 AM
Well being just a notch below Dallas doesn't mean much in West.. that can be the difference of being behind in or out of the playoffs..

Really just looking at the playoff picture last year, Pheonix was what .5 games back from the playoffs? Pelicans could definitely squeeze in there. That's 10 teams deep. Wolves are young too who knows what they can do.

Saddletramp
10-20-2014, 04:21 AM
As for the Rockets roster one guy I've been impressed with is Motiejunas. If anyone is going to make up for the loss of Asik it will be him. He's not a center and a completely different player than Asik but he's pretty crafty in the paint.

He's always improving but he needs to take drastic steps on the rebounding and three point shooting. Sometimes he looks like a starter, other times he still looks lost. He played great in the Dallas game, though. Another guy to watch is Papanikoloau. This kid's going to be special. Hind site is 20/20 but that deal of Papanikoloau, another stashed guy and a couple of seconds for Thomas Robinson is looking like a steal especially since it had to be done to clear cap space for Howard.

Ariza's Better
10-20-2014, 05:26 AM
Until pop has a stroke and the big 3 finally relise their age its:
1. Spurs
2 and 3. Who cares.

todu82
10-20-2014, 07:04 PM
Spurs
Mavs
Rockets

0nekhmer
10-20-2014, 07:11 PM
Rockets lost Lin, Asik, Parsons who were great role players and brought in.. Ariza? While he's a solid two way player, he won't fill that void.

As for the Mavericks, if Tyson Chandler retains any of his defensive prowness he had prior to last season, and Parsons can play the same, if not better, then I don't see why not the Mavericks could lose to the Rockets.

gatkins11
10-20-2014, 08:14 PM
Until pop has a stroke and the big 3 finally relise their age its:
1. Spurs
2 and 3. Who cares.

Truth.

latinofire21
10-28-2014, 09:02 PM
Wow the maverick are impressing me. I was expecting them to be good but the continuity is much better than I expected. Parsons looks amazing. I wouldnt want to 've a rocket fan right now.

SPURSFAN1
10-28-2014, 09:06 PM
Kawhi ain't playing :laugh:

mightybosstone
10-28-2014, 09:08 PM
Wow the maverick are impressing me. I was expecting them to be good but the continuity is much better than I expected. Parsons looks amazing. I wouldnt want to 've a rocket fan right now.
Amazing? I've been watching the majority of this game, and aside from a few nice defensive plays and that one nice transition back-and-forth with Jefferson, he's been pretty mediocre. Sorry if I'm not impressed by two points on 1-5 shooting in 18 minutes of basketball.

latinofire21
10-28-2014, 09:09 PM
I noticed but kawhi doesn't effect the mavs ball movement and defensive rotations. They have so many new players and they look like they have been playing together fora llong time.

latinofire21
10-28-2014, 09:12 PM
Its fine that your not impressed. One of your big arguements was that parsons is not a good defender. Hes looked great on the defensive end. This mavericks team is going to be tough.

1. Spurs
2. Mavs
3. Rockets

Htownballa1622
10-28-2014, 09:13 PM
Its fine that your not impressed. One of your big arguements was that parsons is not a good defender. Hes looked great on the defensive end. This mavericks team is going to be tough.

1. Spurs
2. Mavs
3. Rockets

Congrats on using 24 minutes of this season to judge teams. :facepalm:

ThuglifeJ
10-28-2014, 09:13 PM
What are you talking about Kawhi is their best defender and their glue to the team. Without him the team is totally less intimidating.


Mavericks look good on offense. Their perimeter D looks awfulll though. That was expected. Their Offense is always good though they need to play better D especially the perimeter

mightybosstone
10-28-2014, 09:18 PM
Its fine that your not impressed. One of your big arguements was that parsons is not a good defender. Hes looked great on the defensive end. This mavericks team is going to be tough.

1. Spurs
2. Mavs
3. Rockets

One half of basketball against a team missing their star SF isn't remotely a good enough sample size to base your opinion on. Any competent basketball fan with half a brain could make that determination. Also, I don't think I ever once said Parsons wasn't a competent defender. He's average to slightly above average. But Ariza is just far better on that end of the floor, and it's not close to being debatable.

latinofire21
10-28-2014, 09:20 PM
Again my post was nothing about Leonard. For a team that has so many new pieces theball mmovement and defensive rotations look really good. Parsons looks real good out there. Tyson looks like he never left dallas. Very entertaining game so far.

Greg.
10-28-2014, 09:47 PM
Parsons was **** on for these kind of games in Houston...

SPURSFAN1
10-28-2014, 10:34 PM
Parsons was **** on for these kind of games in Houston...

:laugh:

alexander_37
10-28-2014, 10:39 PM
I'll just wait till Harden scores a basket and start a thread about how the Rockets are going to win the Ship.

alexander_37
10-28-2014, 10:41 PM
Key offseason losses: hmm maybe the guy who put the most pressure on the Spurs by hitting a gamewinner to go up 2-1 and then dropping like 8 threes a couple games later - Vince Carter?

I'm pretty sure most Mavs fans are upset about losing their guy Vince, followed by Calderon. Those two were key to the Mavs offensive success last season and their biggest hole to fill.


anyways


1.) Spurs




solid gap



2.) Mavericks






large gap



3.) Rockets


Rockets won't make it out of the first round, if they even make the playoffs which is highly questionable.

Large gap? So you actually think the Mavs are what 10 games better?

ThuglifeJ
10-28-2014, 10:53 PM
Large gap? So you actually think the Mavs are what 10 games better?

10-12

Redrum187
10-28-2014, 11:05 PM
One of the best opening games I've seen ever. The Mavericks looked better than I thought. With or without Kawhi, they shouldn't feel too bad for the loss.

Congrats on the win Spurs!

alexander_37
10-28-2014, 11:13 PM
10-12

10-12 games ... ok

alexander_37
11-23-2014, 01:34 AM
10-12

Still stand by that?

ThuglifeJ
11-23-2014, 01:43 AM
10-12

Still stand by that?

By seasons end? Yes I do. I'll gladly take the team who didn't lose to LA and almost the Sixer's.

nastynice
11-23-2014, 01:49 AM
Still stand by that?

lol, oh, u must've had that one locked n loaded n ready to go, haha

mightybosstone
11-23-2014, 09:11 AM
By seasons end? Yes I do. I'll gladly take the team who didn't lose to LA and almost the Sixer's.

They lost to LA without Dwight Howard and Terrence Jones, the same two players they were missing when they beat Dallas. So isn't that kind of a moot point? Bottom line, no objective fan right now would pick the Mavs to finish 10-12 games ahead of the Rockets. Except you're not objective, which is why you're the only person who thinks this.

ThuglifeJ
11-23-2014, 02:11 PM
Still stand by that?

lol, oh, u must've had that one locked n loaded n ready to go, haha


Pretty petty if you ask me.

Unfortunately for him he let go of that ammo way too early so it holds no merit. Were 12 games in now, that's 70 more games to go.

He Should have waited :/

ThuglifeJ
11-23-2014, 02:13 PM
By seasons end? Yes I do. I'll gladly take the team who didn't lose to LA and almost the Sixer's.

They lost to LA without Dwight Howard and Terrence Jones, the same two players they were missing when they beat Dallas. So isn't that kind of a moot point? Bottom line, no objective fan right now would pick the Mavs to finish 10-12 games ahead of the Rockets. Except you're not objective, which is why you're the only person who thinks this.

A. Still the Lakers.
B. Dallas was on a back to back with their best player being 36 ..
C. You ignored the almost loss to sixers. SIXERS.

Verbal Christ
11-23-2014, 02:23 PM
Losers always use the words almost and should have.