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latinofire21
10-11-2014, 07:24 AM
I know many people have them winning the division. I personally dont see it. I think they were the latest lin effect. No one took them seriously or thought they would sustain the success they had last season.

Lowry is proven to only play well in contract years. Will he be able to do what he did last season with teams game planning for them?

Derozan had a good summer but I would like to see how he responds now that he is on peoples radar.

Valucinas or however you spell it is a solid big but I dont see him being anything more then a really good role player. Some toronto fans talk about him like he's the next Tim Duncan or Shaq.

With the proven fact that no real superstar ever considers toronto a primary free agent destination how many more pieces do the raptors need to get in the draft to become contenders?

They have a good Gm but I just dont see how they can improve on last years record. I think the more logical synopsis is that they regress a lot because players were playing above their capabilities last year.

Ill chalk it up to an emotional season with a lot of turmoil and change that gave them a great edge.

My vote is lightning in a bottle

jimm120
10-11-2014, 08:09 AM
I think they'll be good, but they're more of lightning in a bottle, imo.

I feel they're what The bucks and the sixers were for many years...a team that can make the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed or miss it as the 9th or 10th seed (and not get a high pick).

I just don't think they'll be as good.

That said, They are growing.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-11-2014, 08:31 AM
There good. But the east is weak. Also it helped Raptors when Celtics,76ers,Bucks decided to go the rebuild route instead of chase 8th seed.

ajharry
10-11-2014, 08:35 AM
No doubt top 6 in the east. Keeping the group together for another season without having to integrate a new body will be crucial this year. The top East contenders will all be playing alongside new bodies, Raps will be ready to show continuity which will help against those new lineups.

latinofire21
10-11-2014, 08:55 AM
No doubt top 6 in the east. Keeping the group together for another season without having to integrate a new body will be crucial this year. The top East contenders will all be playing alongside new bodies, Raps will be ready to show continuity which will help against those new lineups.

I don't think it would be safe to say your going to get the same production from key players. I think they all over performed last season.

koreancabbage
10-11-2014, 09:21 AM
They might take a step back this year in terms of placing but they could be potentially better than what we saw last year.

1) They play defense.

2) They are young. they are getting into their primes or have ways to get there. I don't think even think your saw the best of the Raptors players had to offer as they were still learning to play with another. Terrence Ross, Patrick Patterson, Jonas still have ways to get to their prime. Lowry, Derozan, GVZ, Amir entering or have entered their primes.

3) Star Power: Do they have an all star- probably two - as Lowry was a deserving candidate last year, alongside Derozan. Jonas is a blue collar worker and will get to the floor for you, same with Hansbrough, Amir and Patrick Patterson. Not superstar power but there are only a handful of superstars in the league anyways and none of them won a ring last year.

4) More Depth than last year: After watching some preseason games, they got better scoring off their bench now, with Lou Williams - as he is returning to his scoring self once again. James Johnson is also an improvement. They simply got better on the bench - GVZ in his prime, PP only 25 years old and he could start for Amir (or a lot of teams with his inside out game)

5) Continuity - added role players, starting 5 the same, made the playoffs, got valuable experience.

6) can't fluke top 10 defense and top 10 offense, even if they were lightning in a bottle. Imagine if they didn't waste away 1/4 of their season - they could have had 50+ wins potentially.

I don't see Brooklyn or New York having a more rounded "team" than the Raps. I personally, along with the sentiments of the rest of the forum, feel that the Raptors have way less question marks than both New York teams, as both New York team got new coaches and new personnel.

If the Raptors do fall in the standings, its only because the East got a lot better than the credit they are getting right now (i.e. one or both New York teams have to win at least 50 games to probably beat out the Raptors - i think 47-49+ wins) Otherwise, Raps are going to be the 3rd or 4th seed in the East.

mike_noodles
10-11-2014, 09:27 AM
I don't think it would be safe to say your going to get the same production from key players. I think they all over performed last season.

To that I would say say you aren't familiar with them. Lowry, okay he may not be at quite the same level, but don't count him out. He played well in other seasons too. Derozan has been following a linear curve, it's safe to assume you will get the same from him. Amir is one of the best role players in the game and very consistent, again, safe to assume his production will stay steady. Val and Ross are both entering their third seasons. While it may be foolish to expect both to have big leaps, I don't think small continued growth is out of the question. The bench had some small upgrades that should help. And then we add continuity, the best teams have it. Add all that up and I see another top 4 finish in the East.

latinofire21
10-11-2014, 09:31 AM
I know Lowry only plays well in contract years. He was your main facilitator. I like the guy I hope he plays well but I just don't see it happening. Hes a very lazy player.

Edit: By Lazy I mean he doesn't work hard to get better. There are tons of articles of how he slacks off once he gets a big deal and only works hard when hes up for a new contract. I hope he breaks that stigma but I just wouldn't bet on it.

waveycrockett
10-11-2014, 09:54 AM
They are legit as long as Valanciunas and Ross live up their potential. I think Amir Johnson and James Johnson come back down to earth this season and Lowry as well. I think Jonas can be a solid 15-10 guy but Ross has Allstar potential.

deaner
10-11-2014, 10:02 AM
J
I know Lowry only plays well in contract years. He was your main facilitator. I like the guy I hope he plays well but I just don't see it happening. Hes a very lazy player.

Edit: By Lazy I mean he doesn't work hard to get better. There are tons of articles of how he slacks off once he gets a big deal and only works hard when hes up for a new contract. I hope he breaks that stigma but I just wouldn't bet on it.

Why do you ramble on about Lowry like you know? why don't you wait one game and see what our backcourt does to yours before speaking random wishes. Lowry is playing at his contract year playoff level in preseason. Instead of starting rediculious threads you should spend your time organizing a NY think tank of excuses for this season. Between Phillyfire and Baltimore... I highly doubt it's Kyle who drops off in intensity.

mightybosstone
10-11-2014, 10:06 AM
I know Lowry only plays well in contract years. He was your main facilitator. I like the guy I hope he plays well but I just don't see it happening. Hes a very lazy player.

Edit: By Lazy I mean he doesn't work hard to get better. There are tons of articles of how he slacks off once he gets a big deal and only works hard when hes up for a new contract. I hope he breaks that stigma but I just wouldn't bet on it.

This is total ********. You keep saying that he only plays well in contract year, and as a Rockets fan, I can assure you that's complete nonsense. Before re-signing with Toronto this year, his last contact was signed in the summer of 2010. The previous season he had averaged basically 9/5/4 in only 24 minutes per game. The next two seasons, he absolutely crushed those numbers, averaging 14/7/4/2 with superior shooting percentages, efficiency and advanced stats. So I have literally zero idea where you got the notion that Lowry was a contract player kind of guy.

As for him being lazy, I'd love to read those articles you speak of. If there are tons of them, I want you to find me a single one for us to read that specifically states how he "slacks off" after signing a contract. Because I didn't see that at all in his time in Houston. I saw a passionate guy who busted his *** and sometimes just let his emotions get the better of him. If he could have been calmer and hadn't always been at odds with McHale, I think there's a chance he's still playing basketball in Houston. (Although I'm glad he's gone, because the pick the Rockets got for him helped Houston get James Harden.)

AllBall
10-11-2014, 10:07 AM
Lightning in a bottle doesn't mean what you think :laugh2:

I believe the phrase you are looking for is flash in the pan

Regardless, they are legit on the upswing

waveycrockett
10-11-2014, 10:08 AM
Thing about Kyle Lowry is that his style of play is an injury waiting to happen.

mightybosstone
10-11-2014, 10:09 AM
They might take a step back this year in terms of placing but they could be potentially better than what we saw last year.

1) They play defense.

2) They are young. they are getting into their primes or have ways to get there. I don't think even think your saw the best of the Raptors players had to offer as they were still learning to play with another. Terrence Ross, Patrick Patterson, Jonas still have ways to get to their prime. Lowry, Derozan, GVZ, Amir entering or have entered their primes.

3) Star Power: Do they have an all star- probably two - as Lowry was a deserving candidate last year, alongside Derozan. Jonas is a blue collar worker and will get to the floor for you, same with Hansbrough, Amir and Patrick Patterson. Not superstar power but there are only a handful of superstars in the league anyways and none of them won a ring last year.

4) More Depth than last year: After watching some preseason games, they got better scoring off their bench now, with Lou Williams - as he is returning to his scoring self once again. James Johnson is also an improvement. They simply got better on the bench - GVZ in his prime, PP only 25 years old and he could start for Amir (or a lot of teams with his inside out game)

5) Continuity - added role players, starting 5 the same, made the playoffs, got valuable experience.

6) can't fluke top 10 defense and top 10 offense, even if they were lightning in a bottle. Imagine if they didn't waste away 1/4 of their season - they could have had 50+ wins potentially.

I don't see Brooklyn or New York having a more rounded "team" than the Raps. I personally, along with the sentiments of the rest of the forum, feel that the Raptors have way less question marks than both New York teams, as both New York team got new coaches and new personnel.

If the Raptors do fall in the standings, its only because the East got a lot better than the credit they are getting right now (i.e. one or both New York teams have to win at least 50 games to probably beat out the Raptors - i think 47-49+ wins) Otherwise, Raps are going to be the 3rd or 4th seed in the East.
Good post. The Raptors are a solid young team that play hard on both ends of the floor and have quite a bit of young talent on the roster. If they were in the West, I do think they'd struggle to make the playoffs, but in the East they're pretty much a lock for a top 4-6 seed for the next 2-3 years. To become a legitimate contender, though, I think they need to get way more out of Valanciunas. He needs to become the guy he was drafted to be.

Cal827
10-11-2014, 10:09 AM
Lol @ the Tags.

I can see the team falling back a little bit (like to 45 or 46 wins, and to 4th or 5th in the East, behind Washington, Cleveland, Chicago and Maybe Miami) this season, but I think they're a legit team in the future.

Chicago and Miami likely won't have many years still near the top, while it might take a little bit for some of these rebuilding teams to actually reach peak (Philly, Boston, Milwaukee). The Raptors also have a lot of Cap room next year after a bunch of contracts expire. Could make a run at a big name free agent next year, if we let go of the expirings.

The team has young pieces that could develop, (whoever called JV the next Shaq is on crack lol). I'm not so sure about Ross, but if he does develop well, I would be curious on if we don't trade him away in a package to get a starting SF, which is our biggest weakness. I wish that we ended up going after Deng this offseason, as his balanced game would really help, but oh well lol

latinofire21
10-11-2014, 10:23 AM
J

Why do you ramble on about Lowry like you know? why don't you wait one game and see what our backcourt does to yours before speaking random wishes. Lowry is playing at his contract year playoff level in preseason. Instead of starting rediculious threads you should spend your time organizing a NY think tank of excuses for this season. Between Phillyfire and Baltimore... I highly doubt it's Kyle who drops off in intensity.

Lowry has always been a support piece. Hes never been game planned against. I highly doubt that he puts up the same numbers or better than he did last year. Its well documented that he only plays well in contract years. One of the main concerns about the Knicks trading for him. To be honest I am happy we didn't get Lowry because if he busts this year it would have been an I told you so he just bamboozled you.

I think the Raptors will finish third in the division. Its a different game when your game planned against. The offense runs on Lowry's motor and once he gets shut down I would really like to see who is going to step up to take his offensive load.

Again its early in preseason and no regular season game has happened so I reserve my opinion as to why I think the Raptors were just a 1 hit wonder last season. I don't think they can duplicate as good a season as last.

As to the East being weak I think it is stronger than it was last year. Heat will still be competitive. Cavs became the team to beat. Nets and Knicks are question marks. Bobcats are good. Pacers dropped and the Hawks always seem to be good enough to get in there. I wouldn't be so sure to crown them top 4 in the division.

The Raptors haven't had sustained success since Vince Carter wore the uniform. Lets not assume they are going to be able to build off last year. Just my opinion

latinofire21
10-11-2014, 10:29 AM
I can agree with some of that. I just don't see the production staying the same for a lot of those guys who were simply overlooked last season. As to the free agency I know Drake has been pushing for Durant to go there but I honestly don't see any big free agent signing to play in Toronto. There are cities with more star power that they look to go. Maybe if you have another strong season you can get some vets but even that doesn't seem likely.

It would have been great if you tanked last year and drafted Wiggins. He's Canadian he probably would have stayed for the long term and solved your SF situation.

waveycrockett
10-11-2014, 10:33 AM
Durant is not going to Canada just stop. I dont care if Drake and Lil Wayne and Lady Gaga wanted him to go there.

ChongInc.
10-11-2014, 11:00 AM
so far (though only 2 preseason games in), it seems like everyone other than Val has gotten better in the offseason, and they plugged some nice holes with depth and James Johnson.

I don't see any drop off individually unless one of the main guys gets injured. my main concern is how many awesome 4th quarter combacks they had last year (it was a great year to be a fan). it's not a sustainable way to do things. If they can bring it for the entire game then they have a chance to win 50+.

Pfeifer
10-11-2014, 11:23 AM
I can agree with some of that. I just don't see the production staying the same for a lot of those guys who were simply overlooked last season. As to the free agency I know Drake has been pushing for Durant to go there but I honestly don't see any big free agent signing to play in Toronto. There are cities with more star power that they look to go. Maybe if you have another strong season you can get some vets but even that doesn't seem likely.

It would have been great if you tanked last year and drafted Wiggins. He's Canadian he probably would have stayed for the long term and solved your SF situation.

So your basically saying that the team will regress entirely, and no player will ever sign in Toronto because it's Canada? This is such an ignorant view. Derozen is a top SG in the game and Lowry is top 5-7 PG. JVal needs to improve a ton but this team is going to improve if anything. I would also like to see one of these articles you keep saying are so documented. Maybe some stats to back it up? The things you speak as factual are really just poorly guided opinion from a homer fan. If the Raps aren't in the same division as the Knicks this thread never happens.

Tmath
10-11-2014, 11:36 AM
I'm guessing the OP is a Knick fan?

mike_noodles
10-11-2014, 11:40 AM
Lowry has always been a support piece. Hes never been game planned against. I highly doubt that he puts up the same numbers or better than he did last year. Its well documented that he only plays well in contract years. One of the main concerns about the Knicks trading for him. To be honest I am happy we didn't get Lowry because if he busts this year it would have been an I told you so he just bamboozled you.

I think the Raptors will finish third in the division. Its a different game when your game planned against. The offense runs on Lowry's motor and once he gets shut down I would really like to see who is going to step up to take his offensive load.

Again its early in preseason and no regular season game has happened so I reserve my opinion as to why I think the Raptors were just a 1 hit wonder last season. I don't think they can duplicate as good a season as last.

As to the East being weak I think it is stronger than it was last year. Heat will still be competitive. Cavs became the team to beat. Nets and Knicks are question marks. Bobcats are good. Pacers dropped and the Hawks always seem to be good enough to get in there. I wouldn't be so sure to crown them top 4 in the division.

The Raptors haven't had sustained success since Vince Carter wore the uniform. Lets not assume they are going to be able to build off last year. Just my opinion

You've already been called on this so stop the crap.

ChongInc.
10-11-2014, 11:43 AM
I'm guessing the OP is a Knick fan?

+1
probably also thinks the Knicks have more depth than the Raps

Philly Hammer
10-11-2014, 11:51 AM
Raptors weren't even legit contenders when they had Bosh. Half of these teams that were legit bottom feeders years before like the Raptors are only where they are now because the east is so damn bad.

GiantsSwaGG
10-11-2014, 12:01 PM
Lol @ the Tags.

I can see the team falling back a little bit (like to 45 or 46 wins, and to 4th or 5th in the East, behind Washington, Cleveland, Chicago and Maybe Miami) this season, but I think they're a legit team in the future.

Chicago and Miami likely won't have many years still near the top, while it might take a little bit for some of these rebuilding teams to actually reach peak (Philly, Boston, Milwaukee). The Raptors also have a lot of Cap room next year after a bunch of contracts expire. Could make a run at a big name free agent next year, if we let go of the expirings.

The team has young pieces that could develop, (whoever called JV the next Shaq is on crack lol). I'm not so sure about Ross, but if he does develop well, I would be curious on if we don't trade him away in a package to get a starting SF, which is our biggest weakness. I wish that we ended up going after Deng this offseason, as his balanced game would really help, but oh well lol

:laugh2: I'm sorry bro, dude tag game had me dying

GiantsSwaGG
10-11-2014, 12:03 PM
Raps are still a playoff team

Sadds The Gr8
10-11-2014, 12:09 PM
I'm guessing the OP is a Knick fan?
This. They've all been yappin about how overrated the raps are this whole offseason.

The Lowry is lazy point was laughable. The op clearly doesn't know **** about him. The worry with Lowry is injuries.

BHF
10-11-2014, 12:13 PM
The OP is just trolling lol there is no way you can be that clueless, unless he is a Knick fan. He called Lowry a lazy player i mean whats next Ross cant dunk?

latinofire21
10-11-2014, 12:16 PM
:laugh2: I'm sorry bro, dude tag game had me dying

:)

The knicks played above their means in the 54 win season with the three pointers they were hitting. I dont see how its so unattainable that the raptors played above their abilities last year.

As to the free agents can you please tell me the last big name free agent you have acquired from another team via free agency?

You dont have a lebron or chris paul where players want to go play there. I think its completely unrealistic to think your going to sign big free agents with your cap space.

The spurs build through the draft and if toronto wants to be a contender that's really their only route.

Tony_Starks
10-11-2014, 12:59 PM
I expect about the same as last year, perhaps a bit of a step back. They can't fly under the radar this season so we'll see how they respond. Lowry has got his big payday, we'll see how he responds.

Derozan playing this summer can be a gift and a curse. Great for improving his game but also increases risk for injuries as the season wears on.

All in all the east is still weak so I see them as a playoff team, quick exit.

xxplayerxx23
10-11-2014, 01:22 PM
If Kyle Lowry has the same Year he had last year they will be very good

abe_froman
10-11-2014, 01:33 PM
They might take a step back this year in terms of placing but they could be potentially better than what we saw last year.

1) They play defense.

2) They are young. they are getting into their primes or have ways to get there. I don't think even think your saw the best of the Raptors players had to offer as they were still learning to play with another. Terrence Ross, Patrick Patterson, Jonas still have ways to get to their prime. Lowry, Derozan, GVZ, Amir entering or have entered their primes.

3) Star Power: Do they have an all star- probably two - as Lowry was a deserving candidate last year, alongside Derozan. Jonas is a blue collar worker and will get to the floor for you, same with Hansbrough, Amir and Patrick Patterson. Not superstar power but there are only a handful of superstars in the league anyways and none of them won a ring last year.

4) More Depth than last year: After watching some preseason games, they got better scoring off their bench now, with Lou Williams - as he is returning to his scoring self once again. James Johnson is also an improvement. They simply got better on the bench - GVZ in his prime, PP only 25 years old and he could start for Amir (or a lot of teams with his inside out game)

5) Continuity - added role players, starting 5 the same, made the playoffs, got valuable experience.

6) can't fluke top 10 defense and top 10 offense, even if they were lightning in a bottle. Imagine if they didn't waste away 1/4 of their season - they could have had 50+ wins potentially.

I don't see Brooklyn or New York having a more rounded "team" than the Raps. I personally, along with the sentiments of the rest of the forum, feel that the Raptors have way less question marks than both New York teams, as both New York team got new coaches and new personnel.

If the Raptors do fall in the standings, its only because the East got a lot better than the credit they are getting right now (i.e. one or both New York teams have to win at least 50 games to probably beat out the Raptors - i think 47-49+ wins) Otherwise, Raps are going to be the 3rd or 4th seed in the East.
this.

i get knick and nets fans want a reason to hope.but honestly ,there is no reason to actually believe they wont be just as good/better

dalton749
10-11-2014, 02:07 PM
Lowry ain't lazy lmao. He's coming into this season in better shape than I've ever seen him. He came back to Toronto to continue building on what they had going, instead of being lazy and going to Houston or Miami.

Derozan is about to make the jump to being a star, how far the guy has come is incredible.

Ross and valanciunas have some work to do, but they're only going into their third year and have been developed properly, with good fundamentals which will eventually pay off. On a rebuilding team where they get shots, they would both be talked about as future all stars.

And the rest of the team is a bunch of high character, blue collar guys who have all made sacrifices for the sake of winning, because they love playing together.
They're not taking any steps back

xbrackattackx
10-11-2014, 04:34 PM
Latinofire21 either post the links to Lowry being lazy, you say you have or I am gonna delete your comments.

bucketss
10-11-2014, 04:47 PM
They are legit as long as Valanciunas and Ross live up their potential. I think Amir Johnson and James Johnson come back down to earth this season and Lowry as well. I think Jonas can be a solid 15-10 guy but Ross has Allstar potential.

james johnson wasn't even on the raps last year lol.



Durant is not going to Canada just stop. I dont care if Drake and Lil Wayne and Lady Gaga wanted him to go there.

well he was a raptors fan, anything is possible.


I expect about the same as last year, perhaps a bit of a step back. They can't fly under the radar this season so we'll see how they respond. Lowry has got his big payday, we'll see how he responds.


Derozan playing this summer can be a gift and a curse. Great for improving his game but also increases risk for injuries as the season wears on.

All in all the east is still weak so I see them as a playoff team, quick exit.

derozan is our iron man im not worried.


Latinofire21 either post the links to Lowry being lazy, you say you have or I am gonna delete your comments.

lol

xxplayerxx23
10-11-2014, 07:07 PM
This. They've all been yappin about how overrated the raps are this whole offseason.

The Lowry is lazy point was laughable. The op clearly doesn't know **** about him. The worry with Lowry is injuries.

Lowry has had weight problems , I expect him to be as good as he was last year, I think 45-47 games wins the division this year. Nothing against the raptors the east has gotten a bit better imo so I think they could fall down to 45 wins

Sadds The Gr8
10-11-2014, 07:13 PM
Lowry has had weight problems , I expect him to be as good as he was last year, I think 45-47 games wins the division this year. Nothing against the raptors the east has gotten a bit better imo so I think they could fall down to 45 wins
I don't mind people saying the raps could fall off. It's the overrated thing that's dumb. I dont see anyone talking about the raps as an upper tier team in the east. All I hear is Cavs, bulls, heat, wizards.

Lowry had weight problems but he isn't lazy. He just used to put all of his workout time into basketball instead of balancing basketball and actual weight lifting exercises and dieting

JEDean89
10-11-2014, 08:39 PM
Toronto will be good but they'll need Bruno Caboclo to explode in the next few years if they want to become elite

Tmath
10-11-2014, 08:42 PM
Lowry is in great shape, and plays hard every night. I'm not worried about him being "lazy".

DeMar worked all summer on his ball handling, and the work has showed. His confidence is on another level. I expect him to have a great year.

Val has continued to get stronger, and worked with Hakeem this summer. His post moves still need more polish, but I have seen a new arsenal of moves.

Even Tyler Hansbrough has continued to expand his game adding the corner 3. In a small sample size, he has been money. DeMar was even joking calling him Novak. lol

The Raptors have a ton of depth, giving coach plenty of options, both offensively and defensively.

amos1er
10-11-2014, 08:51 PM
Meh... I can see them doing as well as a legit 5 seed in the East.

Tmath
10-11-2014, 09:01 PM
Toronto will be good but they'll need Bruno Caboclo to explode in the next few years if they want to become elite

They are a young team, still have plenty of room to grow as a "team"

Bruno's development will be key, but I don't think he necessarily needs to "blow up" He has all the tools, he just needs time to learn the NBA and most importantly, the english language. He has NBA 3 point range already. Once he gets stronger, learns, and becomes comfortable with the coaches system and his team mates, his physical tools will do the rest of the work for him.

Raps own all their future 1st round draft picks, and also have the Knicks 2016 1st. We have a good mixture of young talent NOW, and future assets to keep improving.

Legitimate
10-11-2014, 09:33 PM
Behind all the homerism going on in this thread, there is absolutely no way the Raptors don't win the division. That's just the cold hard truth about the situation in the Atlantic division. New york will have one of the worst big man rotations in the league and BNK is riding on Injury prone brook lopez to stay healthy all year. At least with the raps you know what your going to get and you know Jval going to develop into a borderline all star hundred percent chance and you know same thing with Tross.

Can't be making high predictions on a bunch of "what if" scenerios when you know the Raptors will only be better than they were last year, I swear people on this forum are pretty blinded by homerism.

EDIT: we also have a bunch of assets moving forward, meanwhile NYC and BNK have literally no draft picks, even if they manage to sign big names in free agency the Raps will still be in a better position moving forward, so i'm not afraid. The raps did suck for years on end under BC, but we got one of the better managers moving forward now and things are a lot different. what if this and what if that is all i hear, for all you know this might be Brook lopez last year in the league he can be injured first game of the season and retire, haha.

InRoseWeTrust
10-11-2014, 10:17 PM
They are a legit team. Good for probably 4th seed.

JEDean89
10-11-2014, 10:38 PM
They are a young team, still have plenty of room to grow as a "team"

Bruno's development will be key, but I don't think he necessarily needs to "blow up" He has all the tools, he just needs time to learn the NBA and most importantly, the english language. He has NBA 3 point range already. Once he gets stronger, learns, and becomes comfortable with the coaches system and his team mates, his physical tools will do the rest of the work for him.

Raps own all their future 1st round draft picks, and also have the Knicks 2016 1st. We have a good mixture of young talent NOW, and future assets to keep improving.

I agree but they are built similarly to my Nuggets, a deep team of fringe allstar talent, no superstar talent. For a team like that to get a potential superstar, it just blows the ceiling off and can turn them elite. Elite teams need superstars to take them to the top. Lowry, DeRozan, Ross, Valanciunas are nice, but Caboclo has one of the highest ceilings of any player in the league. I think he can be a Paul George type player.

I am a huge fan of Masai, he is the man. I am still upset because I think he never fufilled his goals with Nuggets and I would have loved to see what his next move or two would have been after that 57 win season. Raps are in the best of hands and can continue to expect him to mine the mid 1st round for gold (Like Faried, like Caboclo).

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 12:55 AM
I can agree with your sentiments. They will have to get the Superstar through the draft. I know nothing about this Caboclo guy so I wont pass any judgement on him until I see him play. I think the only player on that roster that can be an all star is DeRozan. Lowry hasn't proven that he can be consistently great. I still think the jury is out on the Raptors and I for one wouldn't be surprised if I saw a young team flounder in the beginning of the season. When teams start focusing on Lowry and Lowry still produces then I will change my stance on the Raptors. Until then I still feel they are being highly overrated by the PSD community.

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 01:03 AM
Lightning in a bottle doesn't mean what you think :laugh2:

I believe the phrase you are looking for is flash in the pan

Regardless, they are legit on the upswing

lightning in a bottle

Capturing something powerful and elusive and then being able to hold it and show it to the world.

Performing a rare feat.

A moment of creative brilliance.

I think it works for what I was aiming for. The Raptors season after they traded away Gay felt a lot like Linsanity. Lots of comeback wins and unexpected production after trading away your best player. Flash in a pan could have worked too.

mike_noodles
10-12-2014, 09:18 AM
I can agree with your sentiments. They will have to get the Superstar through the draft. I know nothing about this Caboclo guy so I wont pass any judgement on him until I see him play. I think the only player on that roster that can be an all star is DeRozan. Lowry hasn't proven that he can be consistently great. I still think the jury is out on the Raptors and I for one wouldn't be surprised if I saw a young team flounder in the beginning of the season. When teams start focusing on Lowry and Lowry still produces then I will change my stance on the Raptors. Until then I still feel they are being highly overrated by the PSD community.

I think most of us have a different definition of what overrated is. There isn't many (if any) who are saying the Raptors are a lock to win 50 games. We're talking about winning the worst division in the worst conference. Overrating to me would be predicting 50+ wins, a trip to the conference finals, winning the division by 6+ games, etc. Again, these are things I'm not seeing anyone say.

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 09:48 AM
I think most of us have a different definition of what overrated is. There isn't many (if any) who are saying the Raptors are a lock to win 50 games. We're talking about winning the worst division in the worst conference. Overrating to me would be predicting 50+ wins, a trip to the conference finals, winning the division by 6+ games, etc. Again, these are things I'm not seeing anyone say.

Mike,

You really need to read the threads. I have read people saying that they have continuity and are going to build off of last season. Top 10 offense and defense. Lowry is looking better than he did last season. Lowry is an all-star. Val going to take a huge step. Locks to win division and easily top 4 in the east.

I think that is extremely over rating a team that hasn't proved they can sustain that kind of success. Its one thing to predict your team will be good another to have them locked in the top tier in the east. Everyone says they are super deep ect. I personally dont see the hype. They have a couple good young guys but their ceiling is about the Same as the nuggets in my opinion. They dont have that guy who can take them to thenext level.

The rockets didnt have it for a while and everyone counted them out. They traded for harden and shocked everyone when they got Howard. The rockets may have failed hard this years free agency missing out on everyone and losing Parsons but over the past couple years they have done well. So I will never say never but I think masai is going to have to pull a real rabbit out of his hat to get a superstar there.

Tmath
10-12-2014, 10:04 AM
Mike,

You really need to read the threads. I have read people saying that they have continuity and are going to build off of last season. Top 10 offense and defense. Lowry is looking better than he did last season. Lowry is an all-star. Val going to take a huge step. Locks to win division and easily top 4 in the east.

I think that is extremely over rating a team that hasn't proved they can sustain that kind of success. Its one thing to predict your team will be good another to have them locked in the top tier in the east. Everyone says they are super deep ect. I personally dont see the hype. They have a couple good young guys but their ceiling is about the Same as the nuggets in my opinion. They dont have that guy who can take them to thenext level.

The rockets didnt have it for a while and everyone counted them out. They traded for harden and shocked everyone when they got Howard. The rockets may have failed hard this years free agency missing out on everyone and losing Parsons but over the past couple years they have done well. So I will never say never but I think masai is going to have to pull a real rabbit out of his hat to get a superstar there.

The Nuggets were a 57 win team in the west not to long ago...

No one is saying the Raps are contenders yet. They absolutely still have to prove themselves, but youth and talent is on their side to keep improving, and we have the assets to potentially get a "super star" or another "star" in the near future.

Masai seems to do a good job of pulling Rabbits out of his hat, like the one he did trading Bargnani to the Knicks.

He managed to trade a net negative player (Bargnani) into a 1st round pick, which could potentially be a lottery pick, depending how the Nuggets/Knicks do in 2015.

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 10:26 AM
The draft isn't full proof you still have to make the right choice. I see what your saying I am just choosing not to drink the koolaid until the continue doing what they did last year.

They put themselves on the radar. Lets see if they can handle the spotlight. Im unsure if the owner of the raptors is a spender or cheap but if they fo get rid of max contracts that could prove beneficial for teams like toronto if they are willing to spend. Thats probably your best shot at attracting a free agent.

Tmath
10-12-2014, 10:38 AM
The draft isn't full proof you still have to make the right choice. I see what your saying I am just choosing not to drink the koolaid until the continue doing what they did last year.

They put themselves on the radar. Lets see if they can handle the spotlight. Im unsure if the owner of the raptors is a spender or cheap but if they fo get rid of max contracts that could prove beneficial for teams like toronto if they are willing to spend. Thats probably your best shot at attracting a free agent.

Masai was a scout before he was a GM. It seems to be one of his many strengths. I'm not worried about his judgement when it comes to draft picks.

I've already said they still have to prove themselves, but you can say that for every team, each year.

Not only is Masai good at drafting/making trades, he is also a great motivator behind the scenes, and really seems to relate to players, which imo will be an advantage when recruiting FA's.

mightybosstone
10-12-2014, 10:41 AM
Its well documented that he only plays well in contract years. One of the main concerns about the Knicks trading for him.

I love how I clearly destroyed this argument and you completely ignored it.

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 11:09 AM
I dont have to reply.to you. The stats are there. Around the time of tbe trade rumors to ny everyone didnt want him.
Stephen a smith and other Espn analysts were talking about how he's only a contract year player.

When he was a rocket he wasn't even a starter for you or your best point guard. When lin got there he was moved. If he was so productive he wouldnt be a journeyman in the league.

Nothing about destroying arguments. I personally dont want a point guard for my team that can only play for his paycheck when he's up for a new deal. Im happy with calderon.

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 11:17 AM
I can agree with what you said about masai. Even the best scouts get it wrong. D arko is a great example. Listen we are fans we are ok to have different opinions. Your reaching for all the positives since your a fan. It is what it is. I am simply stating that I dont think the raptors are a lock for the top of the eastern conference like others have them predicted. I dont think they will get near the same success they had last season. The rest of the league will take them much more seriously.
Teams are notorious for overlooking competition in the regular season and I think that was a tangible reason for a lot of those last minute comebacks and success after gay was traded.

mjt20mik
10-12-2014, 11:45 AM
This thread is hilarious. Baseless statements made by the OP without factual evidence.

My opinion, is they still make the playoffs this year. For me, the only two teams who are contenders are Chicago and Cleveland. I think from there, its anyone's game. I hope the Raptors can develop, but I'm not too sold on making predictions before a season when there are so many unknown factors.

albertajaysfan
10-12-2014, 11:59 AM
I dont have to reply.to you. The stats are there. Around the time of tbe trade rumors to ny everyone didnt want him.
Stephen a smith and other Espn analysts were talking about how he's only a contract year player.

When he was a rocket he wasn't even a starter for you or your best point guard. When lin got there he was moved. If he was so productive he wouldnt be a journeyman in the league.

Nothing about destroying arguments. I personally dont want a point guard for my team that can only play for his paycheck when he's up for a new deal. Im happy with calderon.

Here is my question to you.

If the Raptors aren't the favourites to win the division (and therefor get a top 4 seed) who is?

Also just because you keep repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it any more true. It just makes you dogmatic.

pebloemer
10-12-2014, 12:08 PM
Thing about Kyle Lowry is that his style of play is an injury waiting to happen.

From a Toronto fan, I have no qualms with this concern. He has had some injuries in the past and he can play with a reckless regard for his own safety at times. Health is the only thing Im crossing my fingers about with him (Id also like to see him flop less...).


Good post. The Raptors are a solid young team that play hard on both ends of the floor and have quite a bit of young talent on the roster. If they were in the West, I do think they'd struggle to make the playoffs, but in the East they're pretty much a lock for a top 4-6 seed for the next 2-3 years. To become a legitimate contender, though, I think they need to get way more out of Valanciunas. He needs to become the guy he was drafted to be.

Yah, I think we can still say that about pretty much any East team with the exception of Cleveland (and maybe Chicago). I couldnt imagine what it would take to compete in the Southwest Division in particular.

The East was more respectable for the second half of last season. Im hopeful that continues.

smith&wesson
10-12-2014, 12:09 PM
I know Lowry only plays well in contract years. He was your main facilitator. I like the guy I hope he plays well but I just don't see it happening. Hes a very lazy player.

Edit: By Lazy I mean he doesn't work hard to get better. There are tons of articles of how he slacks off once he gets a big deal and only works hard when hes up for a new contract. I hope he breaks that stigma but I just wouldn't bet on it.


I suggest you watch teams before making threads, because its apparent your going by gut feeling rather than actual facts. I wont even entertain the rest of your original post.

Raps are a pretty good team in a weak division and conference. it is what it is, but you cant sit here and say they all over performed. they played to their potential.

you act like they won 60 games or something. they can easily win 48-50 games again. look at the conference.

dtmagnet
10-12-2014, 12:12 PM
I still think they'll win the division, so a top 4 seed.

smith&wesson
10-12-2014, 12:23 PM
I know many people have them winning the division. I personally dont see it. I think they were the latest lin effect. No one took them seriously or thought they would sustain the success they had last season.

Lowry is proven to only play well in contract years. Will he be able to do what he did last season with teams game planning for them?

Derozan had a good summer but I would like to see how he responds now that he is on peoples radar.

Valucinas or however you spell it is a solid big but I dont see him being anything more then a really good role player. Some toronto fans talk about him like he's the next Tim Duncan or Shaq.

With the proven fact that no real superstar ever considers toronto a primary free agent destination how many more pieces do the raptors need to get in the draft to become contenders?

They have a good Gm but I just dont see how they can improve on last years record. I think the more logical synopsis is that they regress a lot because players were playing above their capabilities last year.

Ill chalk it up to an emotional season with a lot of turmoil and change that gave them a great edge.

My vote is lightning in a bottle

who compared Jonas to Shaq and Duncan ??? wtf are you talking about :confused:

Lowry has been great since in Toronto. he is entering his 3rd season with the raps and has shown a lot to upper management in that time, in terms of maturity and growth. Im pretty sure you haven't been following, other wise you would have recognized the difference in him as many others have.

Derozan - has improved almost every season since being in the league and the numbers speak for them selves. the guy has incredible work ethic and he is a good player.

no the raps don't have a superstar, that doesn't mean they should tank like the 76ers every year. theres no pride in that, and I wouldn't support a team that tanks every year.

JustinTime
10-12-2014, 12:27 PM
They are both but I expect a drop off this year because a lot of guys were fighting for contracts last year which made them try harder.

smith&wesson
10-12-2014, 12:28 PM
bait thread and a half. I remember you latinofire, looks like youre back at it again.

phantasyyy
10-12-2014, 12:47 PM
I dont have to reply.to you. The stats are there. Around the time of tbe trade rumors to ny everyone didnt want him.
Stephen a smith and other Espn analysts were talking about how he's only a contract year player.

When he was a rocket he wasn't even a starter for you or your best point guard. When lin got there he was moved. If he was so productive he wouldnt be a journeyman in the league.

Nothing about destroying arguments. I personally dont want a point guard for my team that can only play for his paycheck when he's up for a new deal. Im happy with calderon.


lmao.......:D:D:D:D

albertajaysfan
10-12-2014, 12:59 PM
I love how I clearly destroyed this argument and you completely ignored it.

Your comments didn't fit his convenient pro-Knicks narrative though. Why would he engage in such tomfoolery? If he doesn't acknowledge it then it must not exist right? Isn't that how it works?

FriedTofuz
10-12-2014, 02:21 PM
LOL at the tags, this thread looks like retaliation for the knicks thread.

First of all, Lowry is not going back to nothing. If you've watch the nba the past 5 seasons, every year he's come out competitive, there was always something slowing him down. The reasons ranged from Maturity to injury. It has been said that Lowry has been working all summer and has come into pre-season in great shape, and to back it all up, he's leading the team statistically. So To the haters saying he was just cashing in to his contract, you're looking stupid.

Secondly, The raptors are a defensive team and have retained core players and are building continuity. they also had quality bench players ( like Lou williams) to their team.

Third, their youth has continued to improve. Demar derozan is just 25 years of age, and he's in mid-season shape, he's worked on his weakenesses and looks like he'll be even better on defense, 3pt and most of all, his ball handling.

Ross has bulked up and gained 15 lbs. Jonas Valancuinas looks really jacked and has retained if not improved his speed. Both are young players expected and primed to do better this season.

I dont see why the raptors wont be the 4th seed. The atlantic division is the worst division in the league, it's literally a 2 team race between brooklyn and Toronto, with TOronto edging out Brooklyn. I have a lot of respect for coach hollins however, so it'll be interesting to see how quickly he can get players to adhere to his system. It might take more than a year, so I'll go with raptors, 4th seed in the east. And once again, the knicks and celtics and sixers are rebuilding and retooling. So I can see them all missing the playoffs except the knicks have a chance at the 8th seed.

GiantsSwaGG
10-12-2014, 02:32 PM
This thread should be legendary too :)

mike_noodles
10-12-2014, 03:01 PM
lmao.......:D:D:D:D

He'll learn. Having seen Calderon up close for years, I don't think he's a good fit with Melo. Dribbles the clock down to nothing too often.

mike_noodles
10-12-2014, 03:03 PM
They are both but I expect a drop off this year because a lot of guys were fighting for contracts last year which made them try harder.

I get it, I do. There's three of them. All took less money to stay in Toronto. If they were all about money, they would all be gone.

kingsdelez24
10-12-2014, 03:03 PM
You can't fake a top ten offense and defense...

LanceUpperCut
10-12-2014, 03:26 PM
They are legit as long as Valanciunas and Ross live up their potential. I think Amir Johnson and James Johnson come back down to earth this season and Lowry as well. I think Jonas can be a solid 15-10 guy but Ross has Allstar potential.

? JJ wasn't even on the Raps and Amir by no means had a good year for his standards. If anything Amir will be a lot better and JJ will be his usual self just with the same team all year.

Why again is it everyone thinks the Raps will regress? They have a better roster, this roster the whole season instead of 2/3's like they did last year where they were horrible the first 1/3 and 2 of their starters are going into their 3rd year?

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 04:31 PM
Here is my question to you.

If the Raptors aren't the favourites to win the division (and therefor get a top 4 seed) who is?

Also just because you keep repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it any more true. It just makes you dogmatic.

I think the Atlantic is up for grabs. There is no clear favorite. The Raptors overachieved major last year and wont be able to replicate that success. The Nets and Knicks both have older players with injury concerns but more talent then the Raptors. The Nets and Knicks are integrating a new coach. The Knicks are starting a completely new offense and defense. If this were vegas and they put odds on who was going to win the division I wouldn't bet. There are too many uncertainties with all the teams involved except for the 76ers. They are trying to lose. Other than that I cant understand how anyone thinks there is any favorite in the atlantic.

canzano55
10-12-2014, 04:33 PM
This thread is bad luck for us.

Hear no evil, see no evil.

I pray to saint Michael that opposing teams take the Raps lightly for another season in a row and we somehow make the eastern conference finals.

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 04:38 PM
who compared Jonas to Shaq and Duncan ??? wtf are you talking about :confused:

Lowry has been great since in Toronto. he is entering his 3rd season with the raps and has shown a lot to upper management in that time, in terms of maturity and growth. Im pretty sure you haven't been following, other wise you would have recognized the difference in him as many others have.

Derozan - has improved almost every season since being in the league and the numbers speak for them selves. the guy has incredible work ethic and he is a good player.

no the raps don't have a superstar, that doesn't mean they should tank like the 76ers every year. theres no pride in that, and I wouldn't support a team that tanks every year.

I never insinuated that they should tank. I only said that the only way they will get a superstar is via the draft. The comment I made about Wiggins was in hindsight because I believe that's one player who would love to play for Toronto since he is from Canada.

As to your reference to baiting. I am a bit offended by the comment. I think the Atlantic division has no clear frontrunner and a lot of question marks. I am opposing the ideal that Toronto is locks for the division that a lot of people on this site are saying. They overachieved in my opinion and will be brought down to reality this season. Boston in my opinion even has a chance to make a run at the division. A lot of young and hungry players and no clear set in stone top team in the division. They can be motivated to prove the naysayers wrong about them as well. My argument isn't pro Knicks or anti-Raptors.

My argument is that people need to stop regarding the Raptors like they regard the other top teams in each division because they aren't at that level. The Atlantic is up for grabs by all the teams. There isn't one team with some type of uncertainty going into the season.

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 04:42 PM
LOL at the tags, this thread looks like retaliation for the knicks thread.

First of all, Lowry is not going back to nothing. If you've watch the nba the past 5 seasons, every year he's come out competitive, there was always something slowing him down. The reasons ranged from Maturity to injury. It has been said that Lowry has been working all summer and has come into pre-season in great shape, and to back it all up, he's leading the team statistically. So To the haters saying he was just cashing in to his contract, you're looking stupid.

Secondly, The raptors are a defensive team and have retained core players and are building continuity. they also had quality bench players ( like Lou williams) to their team.

Third, their youth has continued to improve. Demar derozan is just 25 years of age, and he's in mid-season shape, he's worked on his weakenesses and looks like he'll be even better on defense, 3pt and most of all, his ball handling.

Ross has bulked up and gained 15 lbs. Jonas Valancuinas looks really jacked and has retained if not improved his speed. Both are young players expected and primed to do better this season.

I dont see why the raptors wont be the 4th seed. The atlantic division is the worst division in the league, it's literally a 2 team race between brooklyn and Toronto, with TOronto edging out Brooklyn. I have a lot of respect for coach hollins however, so it'll be interesting to see how quickly he can get players to adhere to his system. It might take more than a year, so I'll go with raptors, 4th seed in the east. And once again, the knicks and celtics and sixers are rebuilding and retooling. So I can see them all missing the playoffs except the knicks have a chance at the 8th seed.

This is the exact type of posts I am against. All speculative, all opinionated and nothing backing it up. What is the diference between what he writes and what I write. I think the raptors are overachieving he thinks that last season was their baseline for them to improve. Its homerism.

This season is the true indicator on the Raptors. Teams will gameplan for them. Try and shutdown Derozan and Lowry and make the other players beat you. I don't see the Raptors getting to the same mark they got to last year. I don't even see them winning the division. There is always a possibility but I think they have the same chance the Nets, Celtics, and Knicks do. They aren't the team to beat in the conference. Far from it.

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 04:43 PM
This thread is bad luck for us.

Hear no evil, see no evil.

I pray to saint Michael that opposing teams take the Raps lightly for another season in a row and we somehow make the eastern conference finals.

A realistic Raptors fan. +1

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 04:48 PM
The Nuggets were a 57 win team in the west not to long ago...

No one is saying the Raps are contenders yet. They absolutely still have to prove themselves, but youth and talent is on their side to keep improving, and we have the assets to potentially get a "super star" or another "star" in the near future.

Masai seems to do a good job of pulling Rabbits out of his hat, like the one he did trading Bargnani to the Knicks.

He managed to trade a net negative player (Bargnani) into a 1st round pick, which could potentially be a lottery pick, depending how the Nuggets/Knicks do in 2015.

Hence the main word Ceiling. I don't think they will be ever as good as the Nuggets. I said the best they can do is be the Nuggets if everything falls into place.

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 04:55 PM
He'll learn. Having seen Calderon up close for years, I don't think he's a good fit with Melo. Dribbles the clock down to nothing too often.

Let me reiterate. Calderon is much better than Felton. If it were up to me I would have paid for Lin years ago but that passed. We missed out on Nash because Raptors were so dead on getting them they practically maxed our only trade chip we were going to use for a trade for the chance to get Nash. I am glad we didn't match that deal. Mega Millions to be the 15th man on the roster go Fields.

Lowry was the next big option for us. I am glad we didn't pull the trigger. He could be great he also could go back to what hes done in the past and regress. I wasn't ready to commit big money to a player that hasn't consistently proven to be what he was last season.

Would Lowry work for the Triangle? Yes. His three point shooting is very good. His decision making is questionable. He's also got anger issues. We already have JR smith. Ill pass on that. We have a lot of contracts coming off the books this season so for the Knicks it was will Lowry be the PG of the future for them or just a stop gap. They weren't sure he could maintain his level of play and I don't blame them. If he plays amazing all season makes the all star game and leads the Raptors to winning the division I will eat crow. Even if all that happens I don't think they can get out of the first round of the playoffs. Teams specifically game plan for you and You need a superstar in the playoffs. Derozan is the closest thing to a superstar on that team and hes still got a ways to go before he gets put into that category. He did take some nice steps in USA basketball though.

bucketss
10-12-2014, 05:39 PM
latino you seem threatened lolllll

bucketss
10-12-2014, 05:43 PM
? JJ wasn't even on the Raps and Amir by no means had a good year for his standards. If anything Amir will be a lot better and JJ will be his usual self just with the same team all year.

Why again is it everyone thinks the Raps will regress? They have a better roster, this roster the whole season instead of 2/3's like they did last year where they were horrible the first 1/3 and 2 of their starters are going into their 3rd year?

lol exactly. hes a certified troll, can't even get his facts straight. but i guess this is a response to that other thread that was made to troll the knicks.

BHF
10-12-2014, 06:09 PM
I think the Atlantic is up for grabs. There is no clear favorite. The Raptors overachieved major last year and wont be able to replicate that success. The Nets and Knicks both have older players with injury concerns but more talent then the Raptors. The Nets and Knicks are integrating a new coach. The Knicks are starting a completely new offense and defense. If this were vegas and they put odds on who was going to win the division I wouldn't bet. There are too many uncertainties with all the teams involved except for the 76ers. They are trying to lose. Other than that I cant understand how anyone thinks there is any favorite in the atlantic.

Its really not its between the Nets and the Raptors simple is that. Knicks will suck and will be one of the worst teams in the east end of story. Stop trolling please.

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 06:23 PM
Its really not its between the Nets and the Raptors simple is that. Knicks will suck and will be one of the worst teams in the east end of story. Stop trolling please.

Your opinion. Not factual what so ever. If the Raptors suck at the beginning of the season and rattle off their typical win totals you will be eating some serious crow. That's why I said its up for grabs. Im rooting for the Knicks but I know they have to learn a new system. I don't think the Raptors can sustain the success they had last season. They simply played above their means. Calling me a troll isn't going to stop me from expressing my opinion. It only derails the thread. You should stop trolling thanks.

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 06:30 PM
latino you seem threatened lolllll

Oh I am definitely not threatened. I am discussing sports with other fans. None of you are the internet police, or respected players or coaches in the league. Regardless of what you may think you know about basketball with the nerd science and ratios and percentages. Your opinion is just as valid as the next.

I played college ball and grew up playing basketball. I understand when it means playing up or down to your competition. Toronto has been a whipping post except for a few seasons in their history. I understand in the larger scheme of things players flying into Toronto are going to be enjoying the strip clubs and night life but wont be getting up for the game. Its just the Raptors. Raptors have never been a team that you really had to game plan before until the second half of the season. That's a fact. Now they have been given some credibility and they will be more focused. I would like to see how the respond to being in the spotlight versus a continuous trap game which was their previous role in the NBA hierarchy.

All your stats and percentages you can post until your blue in the face. In the end of the day lets see how those stats skew when teams start game planning for the Toronto Raptors.

Only 1 Raptor fan admitted that his team was overlooked for a majority of the season and it played a role in their success. Its okay to admit that. Your not the San Antonio Spurs. Your a young team. Make yourself relevant this season when teams prep for you. That's all im saying.

BHF
10-12-2014, 08:45 PM
Your opinion. Not factual what so ever. If the Raptors suck at the beginning of the season and rattle off their typical win totals you will be eating some serious crow. That's why I said its up for grabs. Im rooting for the Knicks but I know they have to learn a new system. I don't think the Raptors can sustain the success they had last season. They simply played above their means. Calling me a troll isn't going to stop me from expressing my opinion. It only derails the thread. You should stop trolling thanks.

Its almost everyone's opinion outside of the Knicks fan base and that's a fact. People proved you wrong over and over yet you keep coming back with the same bull ****. You should stop trolling thanks.

latinofire21
10-12-2014, 09:18 PM
Its almost everyone's opinion outside of the Knicks fan base and that's a fact. People proved you wrong over and over yet you keep coming back with the same bull ****. You should stop trolling thanks.

Again just your opinion unless you took the time out of your hands to go door to door polling everyone on their stances. Good luck this season. I really hope your not eating crow by the end of the first Month.

KnickNyKnick
10-12-2014, 09:34 PM
i wonder what crow really taste like? anyone ever have? lol

JustinTime
10-12-2014, 09:54 PM
I get it, I do. There's three of them. All took less money to stay in Toronto. If they were all about money, they would all be gone.

I think they were all overpaid actually. Didn't vasquez get like 7 million or something close? he's worth like 3.5.

east fb knicks
10-12-2014, 11:27 PM
raps are overrated this topic is old news:sleep:

FriedTofuz
10-13-2014, 01:07 AM
Latinofire person is biased, says i dont back up with facts and claim he isnt trolling. those tags speak for themselves bro.

latinofire21
10-13-2014, 07:45 AM
FriedTofuz tell me how amazing the Raptors are going to be or is it the Lakers? Pelicans? Magic? I don't remember what team is your team anymore.

latinofire21
10-13-2014, 07:47 AM
raps are overrated this topic is old news:sleep:

That's my sentiment too. I just don't think its old news. Clearly lots of people like to talk about it. Do you think they will be able to land a big free agent with all the cap room they have next summer?

Can anyone post the Free Agent List for next summer?

latinofire21
10-13-2014, 07:48 AM
I think they were all overpaid actually. Didn't vasquez get like 7 million or something close? he's worth like 3.5.

+1

North Yorker
10-13-2014, 08:16 AM
I think they were all overpaid actually. Didn't vasquez get like 7 million or something close? he's worth like 3.5.

So he's worth less than Raymond freaking Felton in your opinion? :laugh2:

They slightly overpaid to keep the terms of the deal short (2yrs).

mightybosstone
10-13-2014, 08:19 AM
I dont have to reply.to you.
If you want to earn respect, you have to show respect. That's not particularly respectful to just completely ignore somebody who directly addresses a point you made.


The stats are there.
The stats are there, and they prove that Lowry is not remotely a contract-year player. Contract-year players don't post superior stats the two years after they sign their contract. And this isn't opinion. This is simple fact. If you don't believe me, look up the numbers for yourself.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lowryky01.html


Around the time of tbe trade rumors to ny everyone didnt want him. Stephen a smith and other Espn analysts were talking about how he's only a contract year player.
I don't know about this, because I don't regularly pay attention to trade rumors involving other teams. But if you want anyone to find you credible, you need to prove it with a link to a source. I don't think you'll find one. I also asked you for a single article earlier suggesting that Lowry was lazy or a contract-year player, and I have yet to see you post one. Until you prove it with an actual legitimate source, I'm convinced you're just pulling this stuff out of thin air.


When he was a rocket he wasn't even a starter for you or your best point guard. When lin got there he was moved. If he was so productive he wouldnt be a journeyman in the league.
This is just totally incorrect and misinformed. The Rockets went through a weird stretch for a few years. First Brooks was the starter in 09-10 until he went down with an injury. Lowry outplayed him and earned the starting job and Brooks was gone by the end of the season. Lowry started pretty much that whole year and the first half of 11-12. But midway through that season he got really, really sick. It was an odd story, and I don't know if it ever came out what was wrong with him, but he missed like several months and lost a ton of weight. Dragic stepped in and played really well. Lowry eventually got well enough to play again, but you could tell he wasn't quite back to 100% and Dragic ended up starting the rest of the season.

But the reason the Rockets got rid of him was because Lowry didn't get along with McHale and wasn't happy being Dragic's backup at the end of the year. So, similar to Brooks, Morey got a damn good pick for him from Toronto, which he later turned into Harden later that summer. But if Lowry hadn't gotten sick, he'd probably still be a Houston Rocket and still be the starter.


Nothing about destroying arguments. I personally dont want a point guard for my team that can only play for his paycheck when he's up for a new deal. Im happy with calderon.
I'm sorry, but you're totally wrong. I don't know where you got your information from, but it's incorrect.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 09:06 AM
At the end of the day, it's not a troll thread. He ask a legitiment question :shrug:

Jays Claw
10-13-2014, 09:19 AM
At best they will be a top 3 seed... at worst, they will hover somewhere around 6-9.

Rockice_8
10-13-2014, 09:43 AM
I think TOR is a solid team. No reason to think they will drop off. I do think they were really lucky last year injury wise and that's not something you get every season.

DD is a bit inefficient for my liking. 43% overall and 30% from deep with an 18 PER just isn't good enough. He needs to attack the rim more and if he plays like last year and shoots mid range jumpers too often they'll be out in the first round again. Overall very good regular season team with their youth and depth but not serious contenders in the East. Think teams like BK, MIA, WAS, CLE, CHI are all better built for the playoffs. They all have a guy or guys that can score efficiently in the half court when things slow down.

east fb knicks
10-13-2014, 10:31 AM
That's my sentiment too. I just don't think its old news. Clearly lots of people like to talk about it. Do you think they will be able to land a big free agent with all the cap room they have next summer?
Y
Can anyone post the Free Agent List for next summer?

maybe they can sign a free agent but they would have to be a top 4 seed and thats not happening

mike_noodles
10-13-2014, 10:37 AM
I think they were all overpaid actually. Didn't vasquez get like 7 million or something close? he's worth like 3.5.

Lowry got $12 and there were plenty of rumors of teams willing to go to $14. Vasquez got $6.4, I don't think there was much else in play for him tbh, but for a guy that is capable of starting on some teams in the league, I don't think it's a bad deal. Especially considering what our last backup PG was making (Calderon at $9 per). Patterson signed for about $6. With his skill set and age, $7 sounds about right for him.

RAPS424
10-13-2014, 11:36 AM
maybe they can sign a free agent but they would have to be a top 4 seed and thats not happening

All factual statements , nothing biased or opiniated about this post ! Lol

-MAYBE raps can sign a free agent ✔️
- ONLY if they are a top 4 seed ✔️
- that's NOT happening !! ( as in : no chance the team that came in 3rd last year and won the division and kept their core intact , upgraded their bench , and " internal growth " could POSSIBLY come in 4th in the Eastern conference ) ✔️

Solid factual post !

FriedTofuz
10-13-2014, 11:49 AM
FriedTofuz tell me how amazing the Raptors are going to be or is it the Lakers? Pelicans? Magic? I don't remember what team is your team anymore.
Im a fan of 2 teams(Lakers and Raptors), stop acting as If im hoping from team to team.
I dont get how you can claim that this isnt a troll thread when it's delibrately drawing ignorance between ny vs tor fans and with those thread tags, it's hard to defend your case.

nycericanguy
10-13-2014, 12:01 PM
Raps are a solid team... but the division is far from a given for them. They had A LOT go right last year in order to win 48 games.

Lowry didn't just have a career year performance wise, he also played in the most games he's ever played in since 2008 which was basically his rookie season... so there's a good chance for regression there.

DD also had a career year. and TOR had almost no injuries all year, while other east teams were hit hard. The east will be much tougher this year and TOR didn't really do much in the off season to get better.

And lastly, I think the big question will be, how does TOR play now that there are expectations and Vegas has them at 49.5 wins? They played real loose last year and nothing was expected of them, Masaii was actually looking to blow the team up... It's a whole different animal when you're playing to high expectations and you're the defending division champs.

Because of all this, I took the UNDER bet in Vegas for TOR... even if they replicate what they did last year, they'll have a hard time winning more than 48 due to the fact that the east is just much stronger.

I think the combination of some regression, less injury luck, and the east getting better will have TOR at around 45 wins this year.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 12:03 PM
Im a fan of 2 teams(Lakers and Raptors), stop acting as If im hoping from team to team.
I dont get how you can claim that this isnt a troll thread when it's delibrately drawing ignorance between ny vs tor fans and with those thread tags, it's hard to defend your case.

It's a legitiment question, how is it a troll thread?

latinofire21
10-13-2014, 12:19 PM
It's a legitiment question, how is it a troll thread?

Giants there's no use with a guy like Tofuz. He hops teams like he changes his underwear. There is no reasoning with a guy like that.

Good points Nycerican!! I completely overlooked that they were virtually uninjured the entire season. The biggest question marks for their competition all season was health and they stayed completely healthy. Knock on wood. No one wishes harm to players but that is a definite long shot for any team in the league to stay that healthy.

I don't think Lowry will get injured. I heard he was really working out hard in the offseason from some of the other posters. I haven't seen a link to it or him play in the preseason yet so I will take it with a grain of salt.

I just think with all the statistics being posted here they are really forgetting one main ingredient. The opposition. Its not the Raptors fault that teams didn't take them seriously last year, they won the games they needed to win and did well. I just think when they have those expectations and now teams will take them seriously they will not replicate or come close to replicating what they did last year regardless of their offseason acquisitions, continuity, and whatever other excuse I am going to hear about why they are primed for a 50+ win season.

I definitely will bet the under on that one as well.

FlashBolt
10-13-2014, 12:20 PM
Entire East got better.. I don't think Toronto is going to be better than Bobcats, Miami, Bulls, Cleveland, or Hawks tbh.

Stinkyoutsider
10-13-2014, 12:33 PM
I think the Raptors are going to be good for at least the next 2 to 3 years. Once all the young talent they have matures, I believe they'll be a darkhorse team in the playoffs that no one plays.

More than anything, I like how they defend. A group of tough minded, grind it out players who's style could translate to playoff basketball.

I think things depend on how well Lowry plays to be honest. Spark plug, energy type of player who's going to dictate tempo and also be that floor general (moving guys into different spots on the floor, making sure everyone is accountable).

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 12:40 PM
Giants there's no use with a guy like Tofuz. He hops teams like he changes his underwear. There is no reasoning with a guy like that.

Good points Nycerican!! I completely overlooked that they were virtually uninjured the entire season. The biggest question marks for their competition all season was health and they stayed completely healthy. Knock on wood. No one wishes harm to players but that is a definite long shot for any team in the league to stay that healthy.

I don't think Lowry will get injured. I heard he was really working out hard in the offseason from some of the other posters. I haven't seen a link to it or him play in the preseason yet so I will take it with a grain of salt.

I just think with all the statistics being posted here they are really forgetting one main ingredient. The opposition. Its not the Raptors fault that teams didn't take them seriously last year, they won the games they needed to win and did well. I just think when they have those expectations and now teams will take them seriously they will not replicate or come close to replicating what they did last year regardless of their offseason acquisitions, continuity, and whatever other excuse I am going to hear about why they are primed for a 50+ win season.

I definitely will bet the under on that one as well.

Exactly bro, he had similar tags but yet his thread wasn't a troll thread but yours it...

It's a legitiment question and a fair one to ask.

R. Johnson#3
10-13-2014, 01:12 PM
I'm coming out and saying the Raptors are legit.

Lets start off with DeMar DeRozan. He's an all star, yet people (including Raptor fans) continue to doubt him. The guy has gotten better in different aspects of his game every single season. He showed big improvements in defense and play making last year. He also got to the line a bunch. He's 25 years old with a work ethic that's second to none. I think DeMar takes another step forward in his career this year. I'm not saying he'll be elite, but he'll be a pretty damn good player.

Lowry has turned a corner in his career. He really seems to have shed his biggest problem last year which was his attitude. He finally feels like he has a legit spot on a team and not just any spot, the leader. This is huge for him. I think he comes out just as strong as last year.

Valanciunas is a big question mark. He needs to step it up on defense, stay out of foul trouble and recognize opposing defenses. He's got a ton of skill, he just has to develop his smarts.

Ross will be the X Factor. If he takes the next step in his career then the Raptors are an elite team. He has all the athleticism in the World along with a good 3pt shot and solid defense. He really needs to find lanes in the half court offense to drive and attack while DeMar is off the floor. His game in the half court offense is really one dimensional. If he changes that then he will drive defenses crazy.

We know what we're getting with Amir. He's going to hussle on every play, crash the boards, shoot a high percentage shot in the paint and take one of those 3 pointers that makes me cringe like nothing else every so often.

The bench is loaded this year. Vasquez, Lou, 2Pat, JJ and Psycho T should all be seeing time. We're weak for bigs off the bench but strong everywhere else. We made some alright pick ups in the off-season. Johnson gives us that defensive boost we needed at the 3 for bigger guys while Lou is another scoring option off the bench alongside Vasquez and 2Pat.

If the Raptors can move the ball like they did last year and play solid team defense then they'll be fine. We're a young team that's only getting better every single year. Casey took a big step forward as a head coach last year. He's a stong defensive minded coach and when you have a team as young as the Raptors finish in the top 10 in defense then you know he's doing something right. He still has some flaws with roatations (my opinion) but hopefully those will be worked on this year too. Barring any major injuries, I have us winning 50 games and the division this year.

bucketss
10-13-2014, 01:23 PM
even though tonight's game is just a meaningless preaseason game, the trash talking should be epic :)

nycericanguy
10-13-2014, 01:32 PM
I'm coming out and saying the Raptors are legit.

Lets start off with DeMar DeRozan. He's an all star, yet people (including Raptor fans) continue to doubt him. The guy has gotten better in different aspects of his game every single season. He showed big improvements in defense and play making last year. He also got to the line a bunch. He's 25 years old with a work ethic that's second to none. I think DeMar takes another step forward in his career this year. I'm not saying he'll be elite, but he'll be a pretty damn good player.

Lowry has turned a corner in his career. He really seems to have shed his biggest problem last year which was his attitude. He finally feels like he has a legit spot on a team and not just any spot, the leader. This is huge for him. I think he comes out just as strong as last year.

Valanciunas is a big question mark. He needs to step it up on defense, stay out of foul trouble and recognize opposing defenses. He's got a ton of skill, he just has to develop his smarts.

Ross will be the X Factor. If he takes the next step in his career then the Raptors are an elite team. He has all the athleticism in the World along with a good 3pt shot and solid defense. He really needs to find lanes in the half court offense to drive and attack while DeMar is off the floor. His game in the half court offense is really one dimensional. If he changes that then he will drive defenses crazy.

We know what we're getting with Amir. He's going to hussle on every play, crash the boards, shoot a high percentage shot in the paint and take one of those 3 pointers that makes me cringe like nothing else every so often.

The bench is loaded this year. Vasquez, Lou, 2Pat, JJ and Psycho T should all be seeing time. We're weak for bigs off the bench but strong everywhere else. We made some alright pick ups in the off-season. Johnson gives us that defensive boost we needed at the 3 for bigger guys while Lou is another scoring option off the bench alongside Vasquez and 2Pat.

If the Raptors can move the ball like they did last year and play solid team defense then they'll be fine. We're a young team that's only getting better every single year. Casey took a big step forward as a head coach last year. He's a stong defensive minded coach and when you have a team as young as the Raptors finish in the top 10 in defense then you know he's doing something right. He still has some flaws with roatations (my opinion) but hopefully those will be worked on this year too. Barring any major injuries, I have us winning 50 games and the division this year.

I disagree about Derozan... he's going into his 6th season and he still has no outside jumper. He shot 42% last year and 30% from 3... his overall FG % has been in decline since his rookie year.

Of all 20ppg scorers he had BY FAR the lowest eFG%... basically he shoots a very low overall % despite the fact that he doesn't even hit or attempt many 3's. The 2nd lowest eFG of that group... Rudy Gay...

Take a look at other SG's... even JR Smith had a .514% eFG last year... Derozan was at 45%... that's awful really. The star SG's like Harden and Wade are well over 50%...

Personally I don't see a huge difference between him and Gay... Derozan played a ton of minutes last year and put up some good numbers, but I don't see him getting better unless he improves his shot and efficiency... Just like Gay kind of peaked early on.

ink
10-13-2014, 01:44 PM
There's absolutely no doubt the Raptors have a lot to prove.

latinofire21
10-13-2014, 02:19 PM
Cant wait for the game tonight. Bargnani is going to have a great game!

Jay_Dub
10-13-2014, 02:26 PM
Cant wait for the game tonight. Bargnani is going to have a great game!

Andrea Bargnani? haha... that's a good one!

Jamiecballer
10-13-2014, 02:27 PM
Cant wait for the game tonight. Bargnani is going to have a great game!
Aren't you supposed to bang the cymbal after a line like that?

Jay_Dub
10-13-2014, 02:28 PM
The key to good trolling is not making it quite so obvious... when you start hyping Bargs Raptors fans know you are full of ****

latinofire21
10-13-2014, 02:49 PM
The key to good trolling is not making it quite so obvious... when you start hyping Bargs Raptors fans know you are full of ****

Bargnani looked good in the first preseason game. The Triangle offense definitely suits his talents. He has a nice touch around the rim. Him and Calderon should be up for this game even if it is preseason since its against their former team.

mjt20mik
10-13-2014, 02:56 PM
cant wait for the game tonight. Bargnani is going to have a great game!

lol

east fb knicks
10-13-2014, 03:09 PM
Cant wait for tonight:box::box:

latinofire21
10-13-2014, 03:25 PM
I'm looking forward to the triangle being showcased against a top 10 defense. Should be a very interesting game.

dalton749
10-13-2014, 03:35 PM
I'm looking forward to the triangle being showcased against a top 10 defense. Should be a very interesting game.

i think well see mostly torontos bench tonight because the starters are ready for opening night
more lou will and vasquez means nowhere near top 10 d lol
i expect this one to go in the 100s no problem

deaner
10-13-2014, 03:36 PM
Will the compilation grow tonight?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=29TSfNVFpFM&feature=youtu.be

latinofire21
10-13-2014, 04:25 PM
Will the compilation grow tonight?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=29TSfNVFpFM&feature=youtu.be

I sure hope not. That was some funny stuff.

JustinTime
10-13-2014, 05:07 PM
So he's worth less than Raymond freaking Felton in your opinion? :laugh2:

They slightly overpaid to keep the terms of the deal short (2yrs).

No, my opinion is that Vazquez isn't worth 7 mil. I don't care how dumb the Knicks are either.

JustinTime
10-13-2014, 05:09 PM
Lowry got $12 and there were plenty of rumors of teams willing to go to $14. Vasquez got $6.4, I don't think there was much else in play for him tbh, but for a guy that is capable of starting on some teams in the league, I don't think it's a bad deal. Especially considering what our last backup PG was making (Calderon at $9 per). Patterson signed for about $6. With his skill set and age, $7 sounds about right for him.

Lowry's wasn't horrible but I still think he got a slight overpayment. Vazquez was the worst signing of the off-season way too much for him. Patterson got less than Vazquez so you know it was an overpayment because Paterson is much better.

FriedTofuz
10-13-2014, 05:47 PM
Looking forward to seeing the knicks try and run their triangle tonight-
After the game, if the knicks happen to lose, Im pretty sure we'll see the following excuses from knick fans:

1. Raptors getting calls and the knicks arent.
2. It's preseason, knicks will be be the better team.

LatinoFire is a funny dude.

FriedTofuz
10-13-2014, 05:54 PM
Also, The raptors coach plans to play derozan and lowry for limited minutes ( less than 25), so the knicks have a nice advantage so they should take advantage or at least put up a decent fight.

BHF
10-13-2014, 05:55 PM
Will the compilation grow tonight?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=29TSfNVFpFM&feature=youtu.be

missing the best one of them all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF8lQoE8Chw

nycericanguy
10-13-2014, 06:00 PM
Looking forward to seeing the knicks try and run their triangle tonight-
After the game, if the knicks happen to lose, Im pretty sure we'll see the following excuses from knick fans:

1. Raptors getting calls and the knicks arent.
2. It's preseason, knicks will be be the better team.

LatinoFire is a funny dude.


Also, The raptors coach plans to play derozan and lowry for limited minutes ( less than 25), so the knicks have a nice advantage so they should take advantage or at least put up a decent fight.

Did you just say Knick fans will make excuses and then proceed to make an excuse for TOR before the game even starts?... :laugh:

And it's the 3rd presesason game, no coach is going to play their starters big minutes....

FriedTofuz
10-13-2014, 06:09 PM
Did you just say Knick fans will make excuses and then proceed to make an excuse for TOR before the game even starts?... :laugh:

And it's the 3rd presesason game, no coach is going to play their starters big minutes....

Nope, Toronto has enough depth on their team to still win. It's just that it'll help the knicks chances, that's about it.

nycericanguy
10-13-2014, 06:11 PM
Nope, Toronto has enough depth on their team to still win. It's just that it'll help the knicks chances, that's about it.

yes because I'm sure NY will play all their starters 30+ minutes...:rolleyes:

Melo has played 21mpg in preseason... what coach is going to play their starters regular season minutes in preseason?...lol

of course Casey will play them 25mpg or less... what's the point of even bringing that up?

dalton749
10-13-2014, 06:30 PM
^because raps and Knicks fans hate each other and nobody wants to see their team lose this meaningless game which will somehow turn into **** talking leverage

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 07:02 PM
Did you just say Knick fans will make excuses and then proceed to make an excuse for TOR before the game even starts?... :laugh:

And it's the 3rd presesason game, no coach is going to play their starters big minutes....

:laugh:

dalton749
10-13-2014, 08:06 PM
lets just agree after watching that first quarter that both teams are winning a championship this year and leave it alone lol

mjt20mik
10-13-2014, 08:37 PM
lets just agree after watching that first quarter that both teams are winning a championship this year and leave it alone lol

lol. Worst preseason game ever

Tmath
10-13-2014, 08:43 PM
After all the trash talk, turns out to be the worst basketball game I've ever witnessed :laugh:

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 08:44 PM
Worst preseason game of all time lol

Crackadalic
10-13-2014, 08:50 PM
Also, The raptors coach plans to play derozan and lowry for limited minutes ( less than 25), so the knicks have a nice advantage so they should take advantage or at least put up a decent fight.

So if the knicks win its because you guys are playing your top dogs limited minutes?

You guys should win because
*We are learning a new system vs you guys having a establish system since last year
*Our Defense sucks
*only 7 returning players from last season with two of them injury prone

Limited minutes or not you guys should win because you have better chemistry and so called better depth
So far the raps, even without Lowry playing, isn't do a whole lot to show there the clear cut favorite to win the division

Even though I do have you guys winning it's not because of better talent. Just more consistency and less injury prone players

dalton749
10-13-2014, 09:23 PM
^you forgot to mention Bruno caboclos is the goat in your list of reasons

BHF
10-13-2014, 09:25 PM
So if the knicks win its because you guys are playing your top dogs limited minutes?

You guys should win because
*We are learning a new system vs you guys having a establish system since last year
*Our Defense sucks
*only 7 returning players from last season with two of them injury prone

Limited minutes or not you guys should win because you have better chemistry and so called better depth
So far the raps, even without Lowry playing, isn't do a whole lot to show there the clear cut favorite to win the division

Even though I do have you guys winning it's not because of better talent. Just more consistency and less injury prone players

No the raps have way better talent and that's why they will win.

bucketss
10-13-2014, 09:30 PM
there isn't one bonafide starter on the knicks outside melo.

Crackadalic
10-13-2014, 09:34 PM
No the raps have way better talent and that's why they will win.

No NY/BK/TOR isnt so vast from one another. Raps have better players that fit. They win on better chemistry and being young and hungry. To say clear cut favorite no. I haven't seen a clearcut favorite since the 07-09 Celtics

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 09:34 PM
Knicks got lazy, they took melo out and the raps capitalize. I'm also convinced the Raps aren't that good. Ross stinks and besides Lowry and DeRozen, nobody on the raps scares you to be honest.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 09:36 PM
I hope the Raps fans enjoy Lou Williams ball hogging/on and off games lol

Legitimate
10-13-2014, 09:36 PM
Knicks got lazy, they took melo out and the raps capitalize. I'm also convinced the Raps aren't that good. Ross stinks and besides Lowry and DeRozen, nobody on the raps scares you to be honest.

Ross sucks just because of one pre-season game? LMFAO this post should be deleted for how dumb it is.

EDIT: enough with the comparisons and the criticizing, NYC isn't even on the same level as the raps, it's beyond ridiculous to make a comparison.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 09:38 PM
Ross sucks just because of one pre-season game? LMFAO this post should be deleted for how dumb it is.

Deaner disagrees...

Funny how now you point the preseason but when the Knicks it matters :laugh2: I swear you gotta love PSD

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 09:39 PM
Knicks aren't on the same level but this is a close game, says a lot about the Raps

Legitimate
10-13-2014, 09:39 PM
You know its Good Game well played when samuel D is your 2nd best player... LOL

mjt20mik
10-13-2014, 09:39 PM
Knicks got lazy, they took melo out and the raps capitalize. I'm also convinced the Raps aren't that good. Ross stinks and besides Lowry and DeRozen, nobody on the raps scares you to be honest.

Ignoring your second part, isn't the bolded part a cause of concern for your team. You are basically insinuating that your team is extremely shallow sans Melo.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 09:41 PM
Ignoring your second part, isn't the bolded part a cause of concern for your team. You are basically insinuating that your team is extremely shallow sans Melo.

major concern

We were up by 11 and should of been up by 20 but got lazy

mjt20mik
10-13-2014, 09:43 PM
major concern

We were up by 11 and should of been up by 20 but got lazy

Yeah totally. Raptors should not have been in this game to be honest.

mjt20mik
10-13-2014, 09:44 PM
Either way, why is there so much hate in preseason lol.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 09:46 PM
You know its Good Game well played when samuel D is your 2nd best player... LOL

Yeah well played game, up by 11 with Sam D being out second best player, comes out with melo and we lost the lead with players most likely not being in the rotation. Both teams sucked balls, but the Knicks sucked more.

mjt20mik
10-13-2014, 09:49 PM
If the Knicks could land Marc gasol, man. I just don't know how they expect to run the triangle when Sammy D and Bargnani aren't good passers.

Tmath
10-13-2014, 09:49 PM
Knicks got lazy, they took melo out and the raps capitalize. I'm also convinced the Raps aren't that good. Ross stinks and besides Lowry and DeRozen, nobody on the raps scares you to be honest.

You're convinced after a preseason game where the Raps didn't play 2 of their starters (Lowry & Val), and DeRozan only playing 10 mins.. ok lol.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 09:50 PM
Either way, why is there so much hate in preseason lol.

Tofuz, BHF, legitimate

Treat the preseason like it's the NBA finals. You would of thought the Raps played a flawless game lol

You guys were better tonight thou. Good game

BHF
10-13-2014, 09:50 PM
No NY/BK/TOR isnt so vast from one another. Raps have better players that fit. They win on better chemistry and being young and hungry. To say clear cut favorite no. I haven't seen a clearcut favorite since the 07-09 Celtics

Raps are not clear cut favorite, its between the Nets and the Raps. The Knicks are not even worth mentioning they will be bottom feeders.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 09:51 PM
You're convinced after a preseason game where the Raps didn't play 2 of their starters (Lowry & Val), and DeRozan only playing 10 mins.. ok lol.

Hey, Deaner disagrees, preseason matters

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 09:52 PM
I'm loving Acy thou

Crackadalic
10-13-2014, 09:54 PM
Raps are not clear cut favorite, its between the Nets and the Raps. The Knicks are not even worth mentioning they will be bottom feeders.

anywhere from 7-10 seed any lower and thats just plan trolling bro

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 09:55 PM
anywhere from 7-10 seed any lower and thats just plan trolling bro

His post are laughable at best. Needed a good laugh and reading his post just about did it

BHF
10-13-2014, 09:59 PM
anywhere from 7-10 seed any lower and thats just plan trolling bro

In the east Knicks are gonna be better than the Magic, 76ers, Bucks, Pacers, Celtics and that is about it.

Crackadalic
10-13-2014, 10:02 PM
In the east Knicks are gonna be better than the Magic, 76ers, Bucks, Pacers, Celtics and that is about it.

Which is 10 seed so idk how thats being a bottom feeder.

FriedTofuz
10-13-2014, 10:02 PM
Forgive my ignorance I didnt know the raptors were going to play their starters for low minutes. That was because casey played lowry 31 min the other night, and said he would play him less. I didnt know he'd play him significantly less, or to the point of giving a DNP, or Derozan playing 10 min.

Preseason doesnt determine how good your team is, but it does show your depth's ability.
The raptors have lou williams, who is practically the 2nd to 3rd string PG or SG on this team, and he really gave energy off the bench. Im glad to see this.

Good Game KNicks and Raptors :cheers:

BHF
10-13-2014, 10:03 PM
His post are laughable at best. Needed a good laugh and reading his post just about did it

No Giant Swag LOL i just a little more about basketball than the average psd poster.

koreancabbage
10-13-2014, 10:05 PM
I can pretty much say this to be true even if preseason doesn't matter.

Raps bench, depth > Knicks bench, depth

lol

BHF
10-13-2014, 10:06 PM
Which is 10 seed so idk how thats being a bottom feeder.

Melo needs to stay healthy and out of foul trouble, because without Melo i don't see how the Knicks can win any games. There just isn't any talent on that team right now.

bucketss
10-13-2014, 10:06 PM
Knicks aren't on the same level but this is a close game, says a lot about the Raps

says a lot that you still took the L despite Toronto's best player and starting center being out. on your own court may i add.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 10:07 PM
No Giant Swag LOL i just a little more about basketball than the average psd poster.

You just a little basketball more than the average psd poster, hmmm nice to know :)

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 10:11 PM
says a lot that you still took the L despite Toronto's best player and starting center being out. on your own court may i add.

Yeah because melo, Calderon, Sam D, Stat, Shump played significant minutes mind you when they did (we were up by 11, should of been 20)

FriedTofuz
10-13-2014, 10:11 PM
Wasnt there a fan who said the knicks have more depth than the raptors? Since Preseason isnt a time for starters and more for your bench, shouldnt the knicks have won considering they were said to have more depth and on their home court? I dont get it :shrugs:

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 10:15 PM
Wasnt there a fan who said the knicks have more depth than the raptors? Since Preseason isnt a time for starters and more for your bench, shouldnt the knicks have won considering they were said to have more depth and on their home court? I dont get it :shrugs:

But they Raps lost to the Kings and the Raps have more depth

Kings>Raps?

koreancabbage
10-13-2014, 10:17 PM
But they Raps lost to the Kings and the Raps have more depth

Kings>Raps?

nope, more like Kings > Knicks.

Tmath
10-13-2014, 10:19 PM
Bruno really impacted the game defensively. His wingspan is ridiculous. And he showed his shooting stroke hitting a 3.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 10:19 PM
nope, more like Kings > Knicks.

While the Brooklyn > Raps since they beat the Kings

aman_13
10-13-2014, 10:21 PM
You guys need to stop man, it's preseason lol. Gotta love the passion tho.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 10:21 PM
Bruno really impacted the game defensively. His wingspan is ridiculous. And he showed his shooting stroke hitting a 3.

(not intended for you): but ok it's the ****ing preseason not regular season/ NBA finals, congrats you guys won.

Back to your post, yeah dude look good, if he learns/polish his game he can be a solid role player for u guys!

koreancabbage
10-13-2014, 10:21 PM
While the Brooklyn > Raps since they beat the Kings

Kings could be good. They have the pieces to be really good.

Brooklyn could be better than the Raps. They have been in the debate of who is going to win the division.

FriedTofuz
10-13-2014, 10:22 PM
But they Raps lost to the Kings and the Raps have more depth

Kings>Raps?

The kings are at least a .500 team if they werent in the west, this year they're even better with staukas, that kid is going to be a stud. The raptors were on the road when they lost, so I'd say, they lost to a good team while on the road, you're not going to get every good game. to be fair, the raptors played horribly and uncharacteristic of thermselves, they allowed the kings to shoot 55%? that's horrible considering the Raptors are a good top 10 defensive team, I'd say it's one bad game, and they barely lost as well. The raptors on paper do look like they have more depth than Sacremento.

So are you saying or agreeing that NYK does have more depth than Toronto? there was a fan who also claimed about the breakout of THJR, and cleanathony early. I dont know, I might be misremembering.

FriedTofuz
10-13-2014, 10:24 PM
But they Raps lost to the Kings and the Raps have more depth

Kings>Raps?


what happens if the raptors sweep the knicks in the regular season, and lose to the sixers. While the Knicks blow out the sixers? does that mean the knicks are better than the raptors since the raptors lost to the sixers?

BHF
10-13-2014, 10:24 PM
Kings could be good. They have the pieces to be really good.

Brooklyn could be better than the Raps. They have been in the debate of who is going to win the division.

Agree there is no reason Brooklyn wont be good or better this season than the last.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 10:24 PM
You guys need to stop man, it's preseason lol. Gotta love the passion tho.

Lol exactly, but the key to the success for the raps is their chemistry. Gotta expect them to make the playoffs again this season

FriedTofuz
10-13-2014, 10:26 PM
Actually my mistake, Brooklyn did sweep Miami in the regular season, but that didnt mean anything.
I guess the knicks might still be better than the raptors if the raptors were lucky to sweep the knicks. I guess our logic is all flawed, may the team with the better record prevail?

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 10:26 PM
Kings could be good. They have the pieces to be really good.

Brooklyn could be better than the Raps. They have been in the debate of who is going to win the division.

Yeah the division is up for grabs, whoever wins it wins it. Good luck to all teams

koreancabbage
10-13-2014, 10:29 PM
The kings are at least a .500 team if they werent in the west, this year they're even better with staukas, that kid is going to be a stud. The raptors were on the road when they lost, so I'd say, they lost to a good team while on the road, you're not going to get every good game. to be fair, the raptors played horribly and uncharacteristic of thermselves, they allowed the kings to shoot 55%? that's horrible considering the Raptors are a good top 10 defensive team, I'd say it's one bad game, and they barely lost as well. The raptors on paper do look like they have more depth than Sacremento.

So are you saying or agreeing that NYK does have more depth than Toronto? there was a fan who also claimed about the breakout of THJR, and cleanathony early. I dont know, I might be misremembering.

two words: Landry Fields

hahaha starting SF of the Toronto Raptors that game =P

THJ can be decent but he needs to expand his game to be more potent and expand his potential. Being a one and done three point shooter, maybe average defender wlll suffice. I like him.

Cleanthony wont get much burn this year, as much as the Knicks fans like him, his real value is if he can hit the open shots when they swing it to him when he gets the chance. JR, Shump, Melo, THJ will gobble up those minutes at the wings this year.

koreancabbage
10-13-2014, 10:30 PM
Actually my mistake, Brooklyn did sweep Miami in the regular season, but that didnt mean anything.
I guess the knicks might still be better than the raptors if the raptors were lucky to sweep the knicks. I guess our logic is all flawed, may the team with the better record prevail?

ok, calm down there. lol

canzano55
10-13-2014, 10:33 PM
I have nothing against the Knicks - I actually sympathize with their suffering.

New York is the basketball capitol of the world and yet the fans are having to go through one of the most trying decades in the clubs history.

The Toronto Maple Leafs are the direct comparison with the only exception of it being a different sport.

Toronto and New York both have great sports fans who, more often than not, are thrown under the bus by their respective sports teams.

latinofire21
10-13-2014, 10:34 PM
Wow that game brought a lot of valuable insight on this topic. It was hyped to be the superbowl and ended up being the toilet bowl.

What I saw:

Raptors:

Coboclo has some serious raw talent. Reminds me of Ariza when he first came into the league just with a better shot and better defensive awareness.

Lou Williams is going to win or lose you a lot of games. If hes the bonafide 2nd squad scorer. This guy hasn't found a shot he doesn't like. He was on tonight and they needed it.

The top 10 offense and defense argument is definitely not happening this season. The offense was awful and the defense was bad also. If Val and Lowry mean that much to both sides of the court for you guys it really negates the whole depth argument you guys are preaching.

Amir Johnson played great.

James Johnson was laughable the whole game. If Casey didn't step in he would have been the first scrub to foul on a three pointer in preseason and catch a technical after the play.

Whoever said Vasquez could start on another NBA team is the funniest guy on PSD. He looks like a bonafide backup. Lets not overhype the bench boys and girls.

Knicks:

The rotations were a lot better this game. It seems like the starters understand it a lot better than the second squad.

Larkin needs to slow his game down a bit and look to score more. Hes going to get a rondo reputation if he drives just to kick out a crazy pass.

Outlaw does not belong in the NBA. Go play on a team in China. Wear is going to take your spot.

Acy played a great game although I hope he doesn't plan on making himself an offensive presence for the Knicks. His shot is really suspect.

Hardaway is like Lou Williams. Hes going to win us and lose us games with his shooting for the second squad. Tonight he lost us this game.

The Depth argument for both sides isn't really clear cut. I don't see Acy starting although he played very well alongside Dalembert. Mainly because you cant have Amare and Bargnani in the same unit. With that said Acy will definitely make the second unit play better defensively.

Shumpert played great and it looks like this offense is going to be very good for him.

Pablo looks real old out there but hes still effective. His minutes will need to be limited so Larkin really needs to start getting it sooner rather than later.

Dalembert looked great. I thought he was known for being a foul machine but he has pleasantly surprised.

Either way both teams have a lot of work to do. Just further strengthens my argument that they seriously played above their capabilities last season.

Its just preseason and a lot of minutes went to players who wont be getting them in the regular season. You guys were preaching your depth and it really didn't show in this game. The same depth you had last season was bailed out by you free agent acquisition. Lets tone down the division title chants for a bit now guys. Pretty much proved my points tonight.

BHF
10-13-2014, 10:36 PM
Yeah the division is up for grabs, whoever wins it wins it. Good luck to all teams

No it isn't.

Nets or the Raptors





Knicks
Celtics
76ers

Tmath
10-13-2014, 10:41 PM
Pretty much proved my points tonight.

What points were they?

LanceUpperCut
10-13-2014, 10:41 PM
Wow that game brought a lot of valuable insight on this topic. It was hyped to be the superbowl and ended up being the toilet bowl.

What I saw:

Raptors:

Coboclo has some serious raw talent. Reminds me of Ariza when he first came into the league just with a better shot and better defensive awareness.

Lou Williams is going to win or lose you a lot of games. If hes the bonafide 2nd squad scorer. This guy hasn't found a shot he doesn't like. He was on tonight and they needed it.

The top 10 offense and defense argument is definitely not happening this season. The offense was awful and the defense was bad also. If Val and Lowry mean that much to both sides of the court for you guys it really negates the whole depth argument you guys are preaching.

Amir Johnson played great.

James Johnson was laughable the whole game. If Casey didn't step in he would have been the first scrub to foul on a three pointer in preseason and catch a technical after the play.

Whoever said Vasquez could start on another NBA team is the funniest guy on PSD. He looks like a bonafide backup. Lets not overhype the bench boys and girls.

Knicks:

The rotations were a lot better this game. It seems like the starters understand it a lot better than the second squad.

Larkin needs to slow his game down a bit and look to score more. Hes going to get a rondo reputation if he drives just to kick out a crazy pass.

Outlaw does not belong in the NBA. Go play on a team in China. Wear is going to take your spot.

Acy played a great game although I hope he doesn't plan on making himself an offensive presence for the Knicks. His shot is really suspect.

Hardaway is like Lou Williams. Hes going to win us and lose us games with his shooting for the second squad. Tonight he lost us this game.

The Depth argument for both sides isn't really clear cut. I don't see Acy starting although he played very well alongside Dalembert. Mainly because you cant have Amare and Bargnani in the same unit. With that said Acy will definitely make the second unit play better defensively.

Shumpert played great and it looks like this offense is going to be very good for him.

Pablo looks real old out there but hes still effective. His minutes will need to be limited so Larkin really needs to start getting it sooner rather than later.

Dalembert looked great. I thought he was known for being a foul machine but he has pleasantly surprised.

Either way both teams have a lot of work to do. Just further strengthens my argument that they seriously played above their capabilities last season.

Its just preseason and a lot of minutes went to players who wont be getting them in the regular season. You guys were preaching your depth and it really didn't show in this game. The same depth you had last season was bailed out by you free agent acquisition. Lets tone down the division title chants for a bit now guys. Pretty much proved my points tonight.


I can think of one team right away that he could start on. They played the Raptors tonight

BHF
10-13-2014, 10:43 PM
Vasquez as a starter with the New Orleans. 2012-13: Averaged career-highs with 13.9 points (.433 FG%, .342 3PT%, .805 FT%), 4.3 rebounds, and 9.0 assists...led the league with 704 assists on the season and ranked third in assists per game (9.0)...recorded 25 double-doubles. He also played great last playoffs against the Nets. So yes he can be a starter in the league.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 10:44 PM
I can think of one team right away that he could start on. They played the Raptors tonight

He got outplayed by Calderon thou :shrug:

FriedTofuz
10-13-2014, 10:50 PM
Calderon is a good PG, he's a very good floor general, but the problem is he'll suck so much on defense that it'll make everyone's life harder to keep up defensively.

Tmath
10-13-2014, 10:53 PM
He got outplayed by Calderon thou :shrug:

Well... lucky for us, Lowry is our starter, and Vazquez is our backup. :)

bucketss
10-13-2014, 10:59 PM
Yeah because melo, Calderon, Sam D, Stat, Shump played significant minutes mind you when they did (we were up by 11, should of been 20)

outside of melo you just listed a bunch of scrubs.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 11:01 PM
outside of melo you just listed a bunch of scrubs.

Could say the same for you team outside of Lowry and DeRozen

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 11:02 PM
Well... lucky for us, Lowry is our starter, and Vazquez is our backup. :)

Yeah lucky

latinofire21
10-13-2014, 11:03 PM
outside of melo you just listed a bunch of scrubs.

Your opinion. Thank god your not an nba Gm.

GiantsSwaGG
10-13-2014, 11:12 PM
Your opinion. Thank god your not an nba Gm.

Calderon and Sam D didn't help the Mavs to the playoffs and take the Spurs to 7 games, they didn't do that. They're scrubs

latinofire21
10-13-2014, 11:20 PM
Calderon and Sam D didn't help the Mavs to the playoffs and take the Spurs to 7 games, they didn't do that. They're scrubs

Don't talk logic to buckets. Hes a Bulls fan. I am sure he thinks Rose will be back to MVP form this season. Delusions of Grander :)

FriedTofuz
10-13-2014, 11:22 PM
This thread is just baiting and trolling all over again, I thought for a second it was getting productive for once, but nope, back to insults and blah :(

IDunknown
10-13-2014, 11:51 PM
This thread is just baiting and trolling all over again, I thought for a second it was getting productive for once, but nope, back to insults and blah :(:eyebrow:

latinofire21
10-13-2014, 11:52 PM
This thread is just baiting and trolling all over again, I thought for a second it was getting productive for once, but nope, back to insults and blah :(

Lol just stop. Your the king of all trolls. You need to stop acting like you are a legit poster on this forum. Its really not funny anymore.

bucketss
10-13-2014, 11:59 PM
Don't talk logic to buckets. Hes a Bulls fan. I am sure he thinks Rose will be back to MVP form this season. Delusions of Grander :)

false. what makes you think im a bulls fan, the bulls are actually a really overrated team.

mightybosstone
10-14-2014, 09:43 AM
Jesus, when did this forum turn into one huge Raptors vs. Knicks dick measuring contest? The season hasn't even started yet and you guys are already all over each other's throats. And I don't even understand why. Yeah, you're in the same division, but it's not like the Knicks were remotely close to the Raptors last season to even make this a rivalry worth discussing.

Knicks fans, where does this blind confidence come from? You add Phil Jackson in your front office and it's like you think you're the '91 Bulls about to win six championships. Show a little humility and accept your team for what it actually is. Your team sucked last season and it's not like you got significantly better in the offseason. At best, you're a 6-8 seed until the Knicks actually add a legitimate No. 2 next to Melo. And your team is certainly not better or as talented as Toronto, so I have no freaking clue where that idea comes from. You're delusional if you believe that.

Raptors fans, your team is clearly better than the Knicks. Congratulations. So is the majority of the league. But you still have a long way to go and the East is only going to get better. As good as the Raptors are at PG-SF, the front court is still mediocre at best, and Toronto is still at least one piece away from being a serious contender in this league. If the Knicks fans troll you, just remember that you have the better team and stop responding to these threads, which are starting to get out of hand.

And fans of both franchises, just be thankful you don't play in the Western Conference, because if you did, neither team would be making the playoffs this year and neither team would be remotely relevant right now.

Knicks Boogie
10-14-2014, 01:40 PM
They will finish 2nd in the Atlantic behind the Knicks. #7 overall in the East

deaner
10-14-2014, 01:49 PM
^ I think you should be worried about competing with Philly tonight rather than dreaming about the playoffs.

latinofire21
10-14-2014, 02:45 PM
Jesus, when did this forum turn into one huge Raptors vs. Knicks dick measuring contest? The season hasn't even started yet and you guys are already all over each other's throats. And I don't even understand why. Yeah, you're in the same division, but it's not like the Knicks were remotely close to the Raptors last season to even make this a rivalry worth discussing.

Knicks fans, where does this blind confidence come from? You add Phil Jackson in your front office and it's like you think you're the '91 Bulls about to win six championships. Show a little humility and accept your team for what it actually is. Your team sucked last season and it's not like you got significantly better in the offseason. At best, you're a 6-8 seed until the Knicks actually add a legitimate No. 2 next to Melo. And your team is certainly not better or as talented as Toronto, so I have no freaking clue where that idea comes from. You're delusional if you believe that.

Raptors fans, your team is clearly better than the Knicks. Congratulations. So is the majority of the league. But you still have a long way to go and the East is only going to get better. As good as the Raptors are at PG-SF, the front court is sthisill mediocre at best, and Toronto is still at least one piece away from being a serious contender in this league. If the Knicks fans troll you, just remember that you have the better team and stop responding to these threads, which are starting to get out of hand.

And fans of both franchises, just be thankful you don't play in the Western Conference, because if you did, neither team would be making the playoffs this year and neither team would be remotely relevant right now.

Your the reason why threads like this one get so much airtime. You place your opinion as fact and anyone who disagrees with you needs to show some humility. This isn't about the western conference and we cant talk about the Rockets anymore because all your fans couldn't take a grain of criticism and had to go running to the mods about it. Just calm yourself down.

The Division is up for grabs and your opinion may be the Raptors are the better team and that's fine but leave it at that. No need to start telling posters to show humility and question the credibility of the thread calling it a dick measuring contest.

The best player in the division plays for the Knicks. Health is the main concern every season for the Knicks. If they can stay healthy they have just as much a shot to win the division as the Raptors. You were one of the posters who talked about top 10 offense/defense and depth of the Raptors and last night I saw none of that.

I saw two teams look like they were unfamiliar playing with each other. The knicks have the excuse of a lot of new players and learning a new offense. What's Torontos excuse? They both shot like crap the whole game. These efficieny ratings you were talking about thrown out the window. The knicks played pretty good defense for spurts but by no means are a defensive powerhouse so lets take a down a notch crowning the Raptors the team to beat in the division.

They have as much uncertainties as every other team in the division which was the whole point of this thread. I never stated the Knicks are the team to beat. I have been repeating over and over and over that the division is up for grabs. Stop acting like the Raptors have the hold over the division the way the 07 Celtics had a hold over the division.

They were completely injury free all season while their division all took a lot of key injuries. They were overlooked by the league the whole season. They played above their means for the second half of the season. All teams are capable of spurts that just don't make sense. The knicks had one of those during their 54 win campaign. I don't see why its so hard to understand that they had the same spurt. They are by no means the Spurs so please quit acting like its a shoe in for them to win the division.

Any fan that would like to sig bet me that the Raptors will not be the division champs this season please feel free to message me. I have some awesome sigs I would love you all to wear for a year.

ghettosean
10-14-2014, 03:03 PM
Jesus, when did this forum turn into one huge Raptors vs. Knicks dick measuring contest? The season hasn't even started yet and you guys are already all over each other's throats. And I don't even understand why. Yeah, you're in the same division, but it's not like the Knicks were remotely close to the Raptors last season to even make this a rivalry worth discussing.

Knicks fans, where does this blind confidence come from? You add Phil Jackson in your front office and it's like you think you're the '91 Bulls about to win six championships. Show a little humility and accept your team for what it actually is. Your team sucked last season and it's not like you got significantly better in the offseason. At best, you're a 6-8 seed until the Knicks actually add a legitimate No. 2 next to Melo. And your team is certainly not better or as talented as Toronto, so I have no freaking clue where that idea comes from. You're delusional if you believe that.

Raptors fans, your team is clearly better than the Knicks. Congratulations. So is the majority of the league. But you still have a long way to go and the East is only going to get better. As good as the Raptors are at PG-SF, the front court is sthisill mediocre at best, and Toronto is still at least one piece away from being a serious contender in this league. If the Knicks fans troll you, just remember that you have the better team and stop responding to these threads, which are starting to get out of hand.

And fans of both franchises, just be thankful you don't play in the Western Conference, because if you did, neither team would be making the playoffs this year and neither team would be remotely relevant right now.

Your the reason why threads like this one get so much airtime. You place your opinion as fact and anyone who disagrees with you needs to show some humility. This isn't about the western conference and we cant talk about the Rockets anymore because all your fans couldn't take a grain of criticism and had to go running to the mods about it. Just calm yourself down.

The Division is up for grabs and your opinion may be the Raptors are the better team and that's fine but leave it at that. No need to start telling posters to show humility and question the credibility of the thread calling it a dick measuring contest.

The best player in the division plays for the Knicks. Health is the main concern every season for the Knicks. If they can stay healthy they have just as much a shot to win the division as the Raptors. You were one of the posters who talked about top 10 offense/defense and depth of the Raptors and last night I saw none of that.

I saw two teams look like they were unfamiliar playing with each other. The knicks have the excuse of a lot of new players and learning a new offense. What's Torontos excuse? They both shot like crap the whole game. These efficieny ratings you were talking about thrown out the window. The knicks played pretty good defense for spurts but by no means are a defensive powerhouse so lets take a down a notch crowning the Raptors the team to beat in the division.

They have as much uncertainties as every other team in the division which was the whole point of this thread. I never stated the Knicks are the team to beat. I have been repeating over and over and over that the division is up for grabs. Stop acting like the Raptors have the hold over the division the way the 07 Celtics had a hold over the division.

They were completely injury free all season while their division all took a lot of key injuries. They were overlooked by the league the whole season. They played above their means for the second half of the season. All teams are capable of spurts that just don't make sense. The knicks had one of those during their 54 win campaign. I don't see why its so hard to understand that they had the same spurt. They are by no means the Spurs so please quit acting like its a shoe in for them to win the division.

Any fan that would like to sig bet me that the Raptors will not be the division champs this season please feel free to message me. I have some awesome sigs I would love you all to wear for a year.

I'll sig bet that the Raptors WILL WIN THE DIVISION... what's the stakes let's do it.

gwrighter
10-14-2014, 03:04 PM
Raps are legit, especially in the weak east.

Chronz
10-14-2014, 03:16 PM
Can someone show me an example of a lightning in a bottle team?

Necrosis
10-14-2014, 03:54 PM
Could say the same for you team outside of Lowry and DeRozen


No you couldn't. The raps are a 50 plus win team, the knicks are not, they just aren't.

Shump is a bum, amare is a bum, bargs is a bum.

Necrosis
10-14-2014, 04:01 PM
Your the reason why threads like this one get so much airtime. You place your opinion as fact and anyone who disagrees with you needs to show some humility. This isn't about the western conference and we cant talk about the Rockets anymore because all your fans couldn't take a grain of criticism and had to go running to the mods about it. Just calm yourself down.

The Division is up for grabs and your opinion may be the Raptors are the better team and that's fine but leave it at that. No need to start telling posters to show humility and question the credibility of the thread calling it a dick measuring contest.

The best player in the division plays for the Knicks. Health is the main concern every season for the Knicks. If they can stay healthy they have just as much a shot to win the division as the Raptors. You were one of the posters who talked about top 10 offense/defense and depth of the Raptors and last night I saw none of that.

I saw two teams look like they were unfamiliar playing with each other. The knicks have the excuse of a lot of new players and learning a new offense. What's Torontos excuse? They both shot like crap the whole game. These efficieny ratings you were talking about thrown out the window. The knicks played pretty good defense for spurts but by no means are a defensive powerhouse so lets take a down a notch crowning the Raptors the team to beat in the division.

They have as much uncertainties as every other team in the division which was the whole point of this thread. I never stated the Knicks are the team to beat. I have been repeating over and over and over that the division is up for grabs. Stop acting like the Raptors have the hold over the division the way the 07 Celtics had a hold over the division.

They were completely injury free all season while their division all took a lot of key injuries. They were overlooked by the league the whole season. They played above their means for the second half of the season. All teams are capable of spurts that just don't make sense. The knicks had one of those during their 54 win campaign. I don't see why its so hard to understand that they had the same spurt. They are by no means the Spurs so please quit acting like its a shoe in for them to win the division.

Any fan that would like to sig bet me that the Raptors will not be the division champs this season please feel free to message me. I have some awesome sigs I would love you all to wear for a year.


What you saw last night was a team with no lowry or val, derozan playing very few minutes and the second unit and 15th man playing. You are delusional to base anything, either way off of last night, neither team was giving it their all nor where they running with the best players. They were both trying combinations and giving the young guys some burn.

How is the division up for grabs? the raptors won is last year and will be better this year obviously. They are a young team with alot of upside, if ross and val reach their potential they will be legit contenders, it is all on them imo to take that next step.

The knicks did not get better, they got worse imo. Losing tyson will be a problem.

GiantsSwaGG
10-14-2014, 04:07 PM
No you couldn't. The raps are a 50 plus win team, the knicks are not, they just aren't.

Shump is a bum, amare is a bum, bargs is a bum.

:laugh:

nycericanguy
10-14-2014, 04:26 PM
No you couldn't. The raps are a 50 plus win team, the knicks are not, they just aren't.

Shump is a bum, amare is a bum, bargs is a bum.

TOR has never won 50 games... not even when everything went right last year.

The same core of Val, DD, & Lowry won 34 games in 2013...

Now all of a sudden TOR is head and shoulders above because they won 48 games last year?

Knicks actually have 91 wins the past 2 years BK 93, and TOR has 82.

TOR is the division favorite, but I think some people are getting carried away... the Nets beat TOR last year even without Lopez... There is very little difference in talent level between NY, BK & TOR... it's just a matter of which team will click and be healthiest...

BHF
10-14-2014, 04:27 PM
They will finish 2nd in the Atlantic behind the Knicks. #7 overall in the East

The Knicks are closer to the 76ers than the Raptors that's a fact.

GiantsSwaGG
10-14-2014, 04:44 PM
TOR has never won 50 games... not even when everything went right last year.

The same core of Val, DD, & Lowry won 34 games in 2013...

Now all of a sudden TOR is head and shoulders above because they won 48 games last year?

Knicks actually have 91 wins the past 2 years BK 93, and TOR has 82.

TOR is the division favorite, but I think some people are getting carried away... the Nets beat TOR last year even without Lopez... There is very little difference in talent level between NY, BK & TOR... it's just a matter of which team will click and be healthiest...

The Nets didn't beat the Raps, Joe Johnson beat the raps and schooled them.

They're definitely the division favorite but expecting them to win 50+ games, I damn near peed in my pants when I read that

latinofire21
10-14-2014, 04:49 PM
Can someone show me an example of a lightning in a bottle team?

The Raptors last season

InRoseWeTrust
10-14-2014, 04:50 PM
Man Raptors and Knicks fans really hate each other.

latinofire21
10-14-2014, 04:54 PM
What you saw last night was a team with no lowry or val, derozan playing very few minutes and the second unit and 15th man playing. You are delusional to base anything, either way off of last night, neither team was giving it their all nor where they running with the best players. They were both trying combinations and giving the young guys some burn.

How is the division up for grabs? the raptors won is last year and will be better this year obviously. They are a young team with alot of upside, if ross and val reach their potential they will be legit contenders, it is all on them imo to take that next step.

The knicks did not get better, they got worse imo. Losing tyson will be a problem.

What I saw last night was a huge argument against all the points you guys are trying to make about the Raptors. They have continuity, the same roster, and a top 10 defense/offense.

Regardless of who played last night the offense is no where near top 10. Lowry, Val, and derozan (couple of minutes) didn't play but you guys are talking about this amazing depth.

The Knicks were playing guys that may not even make the team. Trying to install a new offense and have a bunch of new players that are being suggested by the masses to be total scrubs. Yet the game was a nail biter. The Knicks starters dismantled the Raptors and weren't even playing very well doing it. I don't see the Spurs playing bad basketball in the preseason to the extent of the Raptors last night. It was an awful game to watch. I have never stood here and preached that the Knicks are winning the division because I wouldn't put my money on it. I have preached that there is no gap between the Raptors, Knicks, and Nets. Nets beat them in the playoffs with all the injuries. Raptors had everything go right for them last season and they couldn't get out of the first round. The over confidence that the Raptors will win the division is stunning. I wish I was vegas right now.

LanceUpperCut
10-14-2014, 05:03 PM
The Nets didn't beat the Raps, Joe Johnson beat the raps and schooled them.

They're definitely the division favorite but expecting them to win 50+ games, I damn near peed in my pants when I read that

They won 48 games last year and have a better roster plus this roster the whole season and you almost pissed your pants when someone mentions them getting two more wins this year. Go see a doctor.

Rockice_8
10-14-2014, 05:04 PM
TOR has never won 50 games... not even when everything went right last year.

The same core of Val, DD, & Lowry won 34 games in 2013...

Now all of a sudden TOR is head and shoulders above because they won 48 games last year?

Knicks actually have 91 wins the past 2 years BK 93, and TOR has 82.

TOR is the division favorite, but I think some people are getting carried away... the Nets beat TOR last year even without Lopez... There is very little difference in talent level between NY, BK & TOR... it's just a matter of which team will click and be healthiest...


I think that's a stretch to put the Knicks on the same level talent wise as both the Nets and Raps. Knicks are really struggling right now with talent. Your second best player is one of Calderon or THJ. Not saying the Knicks can't make some noise or will be an easy win because they do have the best player in the division and that counts for something but overall the Knicks have Melo and a bunch of guys. TOR and BK are more well rounded while NY is Melo driven. That frontcourt is bad man, it's thin too. Knicks are transitioning this year. Lots need to go right for NYK to keep pace with division I feel.

It would take both BK and TOR to get crushed with injuries and NY to stay healthy for them to have a real chance. Who knows they shocked the league 2 years ago so who knows. I just see it as a long shot this year.

Rockice_8
10-14-2014, 05:08 PM
They won 48 games last year and have a better roster plus this roster the whole season and you almost pissed your pants when someone mentions them getting two more wins this year. Go see a doctor.

The Nets are arguably better as is the rest of the east so I doubt TOR reaches 50 honestly.

nycericanguy
10-14-2014, 05:17 PM
I think that's a stretch to put the Knicks on the same level talent wise as both the Nets and Raps. Knicks are really struggling right now with talent. Your second best player is one of Calderon or THJ. Not saying the Knicks can't make some noise or will be an easy win because they do have the best player in the division and that counts for something but overall the Knicks have Melo and a bunch of guys. TOR and BK are more well rounded while NY is Melo driven. That frontcourt is bad man, it's thin too. Knicks are transitioning this year. Lots need to go right for NYK to keep pace with division I feel.

It would take both BK and TOR to get crushed with injuries and NY to stay healthy for them to have a real chance. Who knows they shocked the league 2 years ago so who knows. I just see it as a long shot this year.

I'm not concerned with who the "2nd best player" on the roster is... in terms of overall talent... they are there with TOR & BK. BK's two best players are injuries waiting to happen though.

Calderon & Dalembert started over 80 games each last year on a 50 win team out west that nearly took out the Spurs. Yet now it seems people look at them as a negative? Knicks are similar to what DAL was last year. It's all a matter of whether they click.

If they do click people will say the talent was there all a long...

Necrosis
10-14-2014, 05:20 PM
:laugh:

Check the record after the gay trade, if they have improved then three extra wins isn't hard to beleive, they did win 48, so a 51 win or 52 win season is where they should land.

Everything went wrong at the start of last year yet they made it to 48 wins.

deaner
10-14-2014, 05:22 PM
The Nets didn't beat the Raps, Joe Johnson beat the raps and schooled them.

They're definitely the division favorite but expecting them to win 50+ games, I damn near peed in my pants when I read that

That's not pee son, stop playing with it.

Necrosis
10-14-2014, 05:24 PM
What I saw last night was a huge argument against all the points you guys are trying to make about the Raptors. They have continuity, the same roster, and a top 10 defense/offense.

Regardless of who played last night the offense is no where near top 10. Lowry, Val, and derozan (couple of minutes) didn't play but you guys are talking about this amazing depth.

The Knicks were playing guys that may not even make the team. Trying to install a new offense and have a bunch of new players that are being suggested by the masses to be total scrubs. Yet the game was a nail biter. The Knicks starters dismantled the Raptors and weren't even playing very well doing it. I don't see the Spurs playing bad basketball in the preseason to the extent of the Raptors last night. It was an awful game to watch. I have never stood here and preached that the Knicks are winning the division because I wouldn't put my money on it. I have preached that there is no gap between the Raptors, Knicks, and Nets. Nets beat them in the playoffs with all the injuries. Raptors had everything go right for them last season and they couldn't get out of the first round. The over confidence that the Raptors will win the division is stunning. I wish I was vegas right now.


So sitting your starting point and center and still winning is playing bad? LOL, the knicks played well, when the raps turned it up they wilted, last nights game means nothing regardless.

Last season adn the off season are all that matter currently. The raps improved their roster which is built on chemistry and youth (demar, ross and val). They added the defensive wing they needed for guys like joe and added a scoring punch to go with ppat off the bench, they did that.

New york didn't get better on paper and have a new coach. I actually think the Knicks roster is worse then last year.

Jamiecballer
10-14-2014, 05:25 PM
Wow that game brought a lot of valuable insight on this topic. It was hyped to be the superbowl and ended up being the toilet bowl.

What I saw:

Raptors:

Coboclo has some serious raw talent. Reminds me of Ariza when he first came into the league just with a better shot and better defensive awareness.

Lou Williams is going to win or lose you a lot of games. If hes the bonafide 2nd squad scorer. This guy hasn't found a shot he doesn't like. He was on tonight and they needed it.

The top 10 offense and defense argument is definitely not happening this season. The offense was awful and the defense was bad also. If Val and Lowry mean that much to both sides of the court for you guys it really negates the whole depth argument you guys are preaching.

Amir Johnson played great.

James Johnson was laughable the whole game. If Casey didn't step in he would have been the first scrub to foul on a three pointer in preseason and catch a technical after the play.

Whoever said Vasquez could start on another NBA team is the funniest guy on PSD. He looks like a bonafide backup. Lets not overhype the bench boys and girls.

Knicks:

The rotations were a lot better this game. It seems like the starters understand it a lot better than the second squad.

Larkin needs to slow his game down a bit and look to score more. Hes going to get a rondo reputation if he drives just to kick out a crazy pass.

Outlaw does not belong in the NBA. Go play on a team in China. Wear is going to take your spot.

Acy played a great game although I hope he doesn't plan on making himself an offensive presence for the Knicks. His shot is really suspect.

Hardaway is like Lou Williams. Hes going to win us and lose us games with his shooting for the second squad. Tonight he lost us this game.

The Depth argument for both sides isn't really clear cut. I don't see Acy starting although he played very well alongside Dalembert. Mainly because you cant have Amare and Bargnani in the same unit. With that said Acy will definitely make the second unit play better defensively.

Shumpert played great and it looks like this offense is going to be very good for him.

Pablo looks real old out there but hes still effective. His minutes will need to be limited so Larkin really needs to start getting it sooner rather than later.

Dalembert looked great. I thought he was known for being a foul machine but he has pleasantly surprised.

Either way both teams have a lot of work to do. Just further strengthens my argument that they seriously played above their capabilities last season.

Its just preseason and a lot of minutes went to players who wont be getting them in the regular season. You guys were preaching your depth and it really didn't show in this game. The same depth you had last season was bailed out by you free agent acquisition. Lets tone down the division title chants for a bit now guys. Pretty much proved my points tonight.
Ladies and gentleman, I present to you the first person in the history of humanity capable of carefully watching and analyzing the play of 10 individuals all at the same damn time.

ghettosean
10-14-2014, 05:26 PM
Any fan that would like to sig bet me that the Raptors will not be the division champs this season please feel free to message me. I have some awesome sigs I would love you all to wear for a year.



I'll sig bet that the Raptors WILL WIN THE DIVISION... what's the stakes let's do it.

So no sig bet I guess?

Necrosis
10-14-2014, 05:27 PM
I'm not concerned with who the "2nd best player" on the roster is... in terms of overall talent... they are there with TOR & BK. BK's two best players are injuries waiting to happen though.

Calderon & Dalembert started over 80 games each last year on a 50 win team out west that nearly took out the Spurs. Yet now it seems people look at them as a negative? Knicks are similar to what DAL was last year. It's all a matter of whether they click.

If they do click people will say the talent was there all a long...


You are missing out on monta having his best year and dirk being a stud. They were also deep and vince really helped them off the bench. Calderon is ok, Sammy is ok, larkin had to be added because the knicks were giving up the best player. It was a downgrade in talent with a prospect.

deaner
10-14-2014, 05:27 PM
I
I'm not concerned with who the "2nd best player" on the roster is... in terms of overall talent... they are there with TOR & BK. BK's two best players are injuries waiting to happen though.

Calderon & Dalembert started over 80 games each last year on a 50 win team out west that nearly took out the Spurs. Yet now it seems people look at them as a negative? Knicks are similar to what DAL was last year. It's all a matter of whether they click.

If they do click people will say the talent was there all a long...


So it's not alarming that Stat was -22, Early was -20, and JR Smith was -10 in what little minutes they played? Aren't 2 of the 3 starters on the Knicks.

Crackadalic
10-14-2014, 05:31 PM
SO the Raps had no lowry and val and played DD limited yet only won by five against a team whos starters were playing no more then 19 minutes(Melo 15, Acy 29) and the rest were 2 second years, a 2nd round rookie, undrafted rookie and a guy who was in foul trouble all night but want to claim that this game was the tipping point that the raps are sooo much better

:rolleyes:

Last year none of there starters miss no less then 76 games. The knicks had key starters miss big amount of games and had a bunch of off court issues yet the raps were only 11 games better in a weak east.

In all four games our best player Melo did not play in three of those 4.

Like I said the Raps will win because of better chemistry and less injuries to deal with but most talented is not true at all

Crackadalic
10-14-2014, 05:34 PM
I


So it's not alarming that Stat was -22, Early was -20, and JR Smith was -10 in what little minutes they played? Aren't 2 of the 3 starters on the Knicks.

You do realize we are playing a new system that requires better ball movement so are better iso players will struggle a bit until a few months into it. The raps had only 13 assist to our 20 which is good because we were amount the lowest in assist per game last year because of our iso centric system

nycericanguy
10-14-2014, 05:36 PM
You are missing out on monta having his best year and dirk being a stud. They were also deep and vince really helped them off the bench. Calderon is ok, Sammy is ok, larkin had to be added because the knicks were giving up the best player. It was a downgrade in talent with a prospect.

And Melo is not a stud?

JR can produce like Monta for the most part... Yes he had a bad year last year, but he's 28... he can easily bounce back.

NY is just as deep... THJR, JR, Shump, Prigs, Amare, Bargs, Smith, Acy... Cole, Larkin, Early

If anything they're going to have a problem getting all those guys minutes.

Jamiecballer
10-14-2014, 05:36 PM
I'm not concerned with who the "2nd best player" on the roster is... in terms of overall talent... they are there with TOR & BK. BK's two best players are injuries waiting to happen though.

Calderon & Dalembert started over 80 games each last year on a 50 win team out west that nearly took out the Spurs. Yet now it seems people look at them as a negative? Knicks are similar to what DAL was last year. It's all a matter of whether they click.

If they do click people will say the talent was there all a long...
What??? What you have is a team full of half players. Unless you support the "defense is just effort" theory, in which case maybe its possible to imagine a universe where your defense is not the worst in the NBA.

nycericanguy
10-14-2014, 05:38 PM
What??? What you have is a team full of half players. Unless you support the "defense is just effort" theory, in which case maybe its possible to imagine a universe where your defense is not the worst in the NBA.

DAL's defense was near the bottom of the league last year.

We're not talking about a title contender here, we're talking about a team that I think will win 45-47 games... Knicks clearly need to add some pieces.

deaner
10-14-2014, 05:39 PM
You do realize we are playing a new system that requires better ball movement so are better iso players will struggle a bit until a few months into it. The raps had only 13 assist to our 20 which is good because we were amount the lowest in assist per game last year because of our iso centric system

Yes, I believe it will take the knicks 2-3 years with a consistent roster to compete with the triangle. I doubt your roster fit with the triangle... That's one of my main points why I believe the Knicks will not be competitive and will miss the playoffs next year.

Raps have the same consistant roster with a few upgrades. I'm not concerned about ball movement because it's proven.

Crackadalic
10-14-2014, 05:54 PM
Yes, I believe it will take the knicks 2-3 years with a consistent roster to compete with the triangle. I doubt your roster fit with the triangle... That's one of my main points why I believe the Knicks will not be competitive and will miss the playoffs next year.

Raps have the same consistant roster with a few upgrades. I'm not concerned about ball movement because it's proven.

You can make the case for this year about us missing which we can just agree to disagree but for next year no way

We have enough next year to afford a max or 2 starters with a 1st rounder with players having a full year under the triangle.

I have that much faith in the triangle offense and even more so next year

latinofire21
10-14-2014, 05:58 PM
So sitting your starting point and center and still winning is playing bad? LOL, the knicks played well, when the raps turned it up they wilted, last nights game means nothing regardless.

Last season adn the off season are all that matter currently. The raps improved their roster which is built on chemistry and youth (demar, ross and val). They added the defensive wing they needed for guys like joe and added a scoring punch to go with ppat off the bench, they did that.

New york didn't get better on paper and have a new coach. I actually think the Knicks roster is worse then last year.

LOL neither team played well. THey shot like 28 percent in the first half. both teams for that matter. This was a very ugly game. To say either team played well is just trolling lol.

latinofire21
10-14-2014, 06:02 PM
So no sig bet I guess?

Aren't you a knicks fan. Kind of defeats the purpose lol. I wouldn't want you to wear the sigs I am making lol.

deaner
10-14-2014, 06:02 PM
U
You can make the case for this year about us missing which we can just agree to disagree but for next year no way

We have enough next year to afford a max or 2 starters with a 1st rounder with players having a full year under the triangle.

I have that much faith in the triangle offense and even more so next year

That's part of my point. Phil will change the roster as soon as he can. No one wants Bargs, JR, Stat... The Knicks will be cleaning house next year and you'll be teaching that wonderful triangle all over again.

latinofire21
10-14-2014, 06:03 PM
So no sig bet I guess?


Ladies and gentleman, I present to you the first person in the history of humanity capable of carefully watching and analyzing the play of 10 individuals all at the same damn time.

With the way this thread has been going I cant tell if that's a compliment or an insult lol.

GiantsSwaGG
10-14-2014, 06:04 PM
That's not pee son, stop playing with it.

Why are you worried about if I play with it?

latinofire21
10-14-2014, 06:08 PM
So no sig bet I guess?


The Knicks are closer to the 76ers than the Raptors that's a fact.

Wow get this man a cookie. He knows his geography.

New York to Phili - 96 miles
New York to Toronto - 456 miles

That's the only way your statement is a fact. If it means anything else its clearly an opinion that should be taken very lightly.

Vampirate
10-14-2014, 06:35 PM
:laugh:

While I can't say for sure, I do think the Raptors can be a 50+ win team this year.

Vampirate
10-14-2014, 07:06 PM
This thread, and i'm a Raptors fan:

Other team fans that are not the Raptors: "Hey uh guys, we exist too ya know"

Raptor and Knick fans " SHUT UP WE'RE DISAGREEING WITH EACH OTHER"

Other team fans that are not the Raptors: "Ok" *silentely walks away*

Net's fan: "Oh hey guys, we're in the division too!"

Raptor and Knick fans " SHUT UP WE'RE DISAGREEING WITH EACH OTHER"

Net fans: "Ok" *silentely walks away*

nycericanguy
10-14-2014, 07:09 PM
This thread, and i'm a Raptors fan:

Other team fans that are not the Raptors: "Hey uh guys, we exist too ya know"

Raptor and Knick fans " SHUT UP WE'RE DISAGREEING WITH EACH OTHER"

Other team fans that are not the Raptors: "Ok" *silentely walks away*

Net's fan: "Oh hey guys, we're in the division too!"

Raptor and Knick fans " SHUT UP WE'RE DISAGREEING WITH EACH OTHER"

Net fans: "Ok" *silentely walks away*

I disagree...

Jamiecballer
10-14-2014, 07:15 PM
DAL's defense was near the bottom of the league last year.

We're not talking about a title contender here, we're talking about a team that I think will win 45-47 games... Knicks clearly need to add some pieces.
True, they were. I find it very hard to envision this years Knicks being able to finish as high as 20th in opponents PPG and 22nd in defensive rating though. I would feel pretty comfortable betting 25 or higher on both counts. Dallas had a smart veteran cast (Ellis notwithstanding) on both ends and I think the Knicks have the opposite, questionable intelligence and motivation on the defensive side in particular.

latinofire21
10-14-2014, 07:16 PM
This thread, and i'm a Raptors fan:

Other team fans that are not the Raptors: "Hey uh guys, we exist too ya know"

Raptor and Knick fans " SHUT UP WE'RE DISAGREEING WITH EACH OTHER"

Other team fans that are not the Raptors: "Ok" *silentely walks away*

Net's fan: "Oh hey guys, we're in the division too!"

Raptor and Knick fans " SHUT UP WE'RE DISAGREEING WITH EACH OTHER"

Net fans: "Ok" *silentely walks away*

That is a pretty good summarization. The problem with that is The thread is about the Raptors so point 1, and 3 shouldn't matter. Its just people looking to hear their own voice.

The Nets and Knicks points you made I think are to show that the Raptors aren't the clear cut favorites since all the teams show a lot of question marks going into the season.

I understand your a fan and your going to think they can build off that season but the odds are highly against it.

Zero Health Issues
Taking the league by storm.
Relevance - People will game plan for them.
Role Players - Played above their means. (Personal Opinion) I wont state that as fact like some of the other posters like to say with their opinions being FACT.
Conference got better this year
Division is healthy right now and not injured like last season.

All those variables are definitely going to change the overall outlook for them in my opinion.

Vampirate
10-14-2014, 07:31 PM
That is a pretty good summarization. The problem with that is The thread is about the Raptors so point 1, and 3 shouldn't matter. Its just people looking to hear their own voice.

The Nets and Knicks points you made I think are to show that the Raptors aren't the clear cut favorites since all the teams show a lot of question marks going into the season.

I understand your a fan and your going to think they can build off that season but the odds are highly against it.

Zero Health Issues I believe there was a point last year where Lowry played through an injury or something
Taking the league by storm. They did, the next part
Relevance - People will game plan for them. Is right here, they will have to prove last year wasn't a fluke, but they have better depth than last year.
Role Players - Played above their means. (Personal Opinion) I wont state that as fact like some of the other posters like to say with their opinions being FACT.
Conference got better this year As did the Raptors, imo, internal growth and better depth.
Division is healthy right now and not injured like last season. Division still holds Philadelphia and Boston, also the Nets and Knicks have more question marks than the Raptors and are more proven

All those variables are definitely going to change the overall outlook for them in my opinion.

The season hasn't begun so I have no idea how each team will fare. I do think there will be an adjustment period for the knicks so their beginning of the season will hold them back.

The Nets need to prove that they can win WITH Lopez, it wasn't until he went down until they made that run.

The Raptors need to prove last season wasn't a fluke, hopefully they learned some stuff from the playoffs and come back stronger.

Boston, not going anywhere.

Philadelphia, not worth mentioning.


Also, you can't really fluke a good defense imo.

I think the Raptors CAN win 50+ games but i'm not saying they will.

DoMeFavors
10-14-2014, 07:41 PM
I respect the Raptors but they aint that good

Nets without Brook Lopez and without Lionel Hollins had best record in EAST from start of 2014 to playoffs
Nets beat the Raptors in the playoffs without home court
Nets will win the division and Raptors will probably be second
I cant see Knicks making the playoffs they just arent good.