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View Full Version : Bosh warns Love: Playing with LBJ is 'frustrating'



JasonJohnHorn
10-09-2014, 03:59 PM
In a metaphor that sounded like it came straight out of the Olive Garden, Chris Bosh has suggests that playing with LBJ was 'frustrating'.

http://prosportsdaily.com/Headlines/ExternalArticle?articleId=324826


It is frustrating to deferred to a person who is a better scorer than you, and also watch him get rebounds while you are running to get ahead on offence to get yourself an open shot. And that winning championships bit and getting out of the first round... brutal! Sorry you had to go through that Chris.

In all fairness, he does say good things will happen, but man... Bosh sounded like a child in this quote.

Arch Stanton
10-09-2014, 04:08 PM
They aren't Thundercat buddies any longer.

archdevil84
10-09-2014, 04:15 PM
i aways thought it was more like "lebron, ray allen and james jones and mike miller" and "wade bosh and udonis haslem". never had the idea that lebron and bosh were the greatest buddy's

and ofcourse norris cole and birdman

Tony_Starks
10-09-2014, 04:20 PM
Bosh sacrificed a lot of his game for the good of the team. When they won the other guy got all the credit and when they lost he took all the flack for not "producing enough."

Even now people are under the misguided notion that he's washed up...

mjm07
10-09-2014, 04:26 PM
This wont end well...OP point of view assures that.

Not completely sure if Bosh is throwing a jab at LBJ. Its definitely debatable that he is.

However, IMO, he's simply describing playing with such a dominant player in LBJ and having to be the 3rd option on a team that also had D-Wade. Not to mention, he was the dominant option for his previous team.

mightybosstone
10-09-2014, 04:56 PM
I understand what Bosh is saying here, but what the hell did he expect? He joined a team with two of the five best players in the league at the time and both guys who were guaranteed future first ballot Hall of Famers and then he wants to complain after he won two championships that he didn't get the ball enough? I'm sorry, but he comes off as kind of an idiot with that quote.

I'm sorry that you didn't get an appetizer and dessert to go with your entree, but your entree was getting to play with two of the best wings in NBA history, go to four NBA Finals in four years and winning two rings. That's a pretty ****ing great entree. There are more talented guys in the league who are getting appetizers, entrees and desserts at the crappy Denny's down the street. He just got steak and lobster at a 5-star restaurant downtown. Quit *****ing and appreciate what you had.

JasonJohnHorn
10-09-2014, 04:57 PM
Bosh sacrificed a lot of his game for the good of the team. When they won the other guy got all the credit and when they lost he took all the flack for not "producing enough."

Even now people are under the misguided notion that he's washed up...


I hope to see Bosh return to form, as well as Wade. I think the Heat will be a very good team this year and LBJs departure will give Bosh a chance to prove he's still got it.

mightybosstone
10-09-2014, 04:57 PM
Here's the full quote for people asking about it:

ďYou just get your entree and thatís it," Bosh said. "Itís like, wait a minute, I need my appetizer and my dessert and my drink, what are you doing? And my bread basket. What is going on? Iím hungry! Itís a lot different. But if you can get through it, good things can happen. But it never gets easy. Even up until my last year of doing it, it never gets easier.Ē

JasonJohnHorn
10-09-2014, 04:59 PM
I understand what Bosh is saying here, but what the hell did he expect? He joined a team with two of the five best players in the league at the time and both guys who were guaranteed future first ballot Hall of Famers and then he wants to complain after he won two championships that he didn't get the ball enough? I'm sorry, but he comes off as kind of an idiot with that quote.

I'm sorry that you didn't get an appetizer and dessert to go with your entree, but your entree was getting to play with two of the best wings in NBA history, go to four NBA Finals in four years and winning two rings. That's a pretty ****ing great entree. There are more talented guys in the league who are getting appetizers, entrees and desserts at the crappy Denny's down the street. He just got steak and lobster at a 5-star restaurant downtown. Quit *****ing and appreciate what you had.

You had me laughing out loud at 'Denny's'. Thank you for that!

xbrackattackx
10-09-2014, 05:00 PM
I didn't take this is whining, more saying you have to swallow your pride and be a role player when you are better and it's a hard place to be. I think bosh wants to prove he's still a beast.

mjm07
10-09-2014, 05:07 PM
I understand what Bosh is saying here, but what the hell did he expect? He joined a team with two of the five best players in the league at the time and both guys who were guaranteed future first ballot Hall of Famers and then he wants to complain after he won two championships that he didn't get the ball enough? I'm sorry, but he comes off as kind of an idiot with that quote.

I'm sorry that you didn't get an appetizer and dessert to go with your entree, but your entree was getting to play with two of the best wings in NBA history, go to four NBA Finals in four years and winning two rings. That's a pretty ****ing great entree. There are more talented guys in the league who are getting appetizers, entrees and desserts at the crappy Denny's down the street. He just got steak and lobster at a 5-star restaurant downtown. Quit *****ing and appreciate what you had.


Are you mad that he didn't sign with Houston?

ghettosean
10-09-2014, 05:13 PM
Bosh sacrificed a lot of his game for the good of the team. When they won the other guy got all the credit and when they lost he took all the flack for not "producing enough."

Even now people are under the misguided notion that he's washed up...

This!!! So much this!!!

I've been saying Bosh is severely underrated since he joined Bron. Bosh will show everyone what he's capable of soon enough.

mightybosstone
10-09-2014, 05:16 PM
Are you mad that he didn't sign with Houston?

:laugh: I KNEW somebody was going to say this. I was going to even preface my post by saying something like "I know everyone will think I'm just bitter about Bosh not coming to Houston, but..." Honestly, though, that has nothing to do with my opinion of this statement. If Wade had said this or if Allen, KG or Garnett had said something like that after that big three had broken up, I would have responded the same way.

aman_13
10-09-2014, 05:18 PM
I understand what Bosh is saying here, but what the hell did he expect? He joined a team with two of the five best players in the league at the time and both guys who were guaranteed future first ballot Hall of Famers and then he wants to complain after he won two championships that he didn't get the ball enough? I'm sorry, but he comes off as kind of an idiot with that quote.

I'm sorry that you didn't get an appetizer and dessert to go with your entree, but your entree was getting to play with two of the best wings in NBA history, go to four NBA Finals in four years and winning two rings. That's a pretty ****ing great entree. There are more talented guys in the league who are getting appetizers, entrees and desserts at the crappy Denny's down the street. He just got steak and lobster at a 5-star restaurant downtown. Quit *****ing and appreciate what you had.

Relax man all he said was it is difficult to play that role. He acknowledged that if you can get through it, good things will happen. He did not once say that he didn't appreciate the success that came with playing with Lebron.

mightybosstone
10-09-2014, 05:19 PM
This!!! So much this!!!

I've been saying Bosh is severely underrated since he joined Bron. Bosh will show everyone what he's capable of soon enough.

I agree that Bosh sacrificed his game for the betterment of the team, and it's the reason I always respected him in Miami and was patient with the fact that he often no-showed in the playoffs in big games. However, I think it's ****** to follow up your time there by openly admitting to the fact that you had to make sacrifices and didn't get as many looks as you wanted. Because, let's be honest, if Bosh is getting that many looks on a playoff team, then that team wouldn't have gone to four straight titles and won two championships.

mightybosstone
10-09-2014, 05:20 PM
Relax man all he said was it is difficult to play that role. He acknowledged that if you can get through it, good things will happen. He did not once say that he didn't appreciate the success that came with playing with Lebron.
I'm not cursing because I'm angry. I'm cursing because I curse a lot. I write the way I talk in real life.

Tony_Starks
10-09-2014, 05:22 PM
This!!! So much this!!!

I've been saying Bosh is severely underrated since he joined Bron. Bosh will show everyone what he's capable of soon enough.

I think we will see vintage Bosh. They had basically turned him into a glorified Robert Horry.

I like how people are sleeping on the Heat though, I think they will be seriously contending with the Bulls for best in the east....

mightybosstone
10-09-2014, 05:26 PM
I think we will see vintage Bosh. They had basically turned him into a glorified Robert Horry.

I like how people are sleeping on the Heat though, I think they will be seriously contending with the Bulls for best in the east....

I like how you very blatantly ignored Cleveland in that second paragraph. Do you really think Miami and Chicago will finish with better records? Like, putting your Lebron hatred aside, do you honestly believe this?

Heatcheck
10-09-2014, 05:29 PM
I love his honesty when he does interviews, doesn't go the "righ thing to say" route.
he's just describing what its like for a number one option to be a third option for the sake of winning. not only did his stats suffer, but his game did as well. he became basically a spot up shooter half the time, so LeBron could have space to drive, and then get criticized for not rebounding enough. It doesn't seem like he's complaining to me.

aman_13
10-09-2014, 05:33 PM
I'm not cursing because I'm angry. I'm cursing because I curse a lot. I write the way I talk in real life.

Lol well i guess i have to read you're posts with that in mind.

Arch Stanton
10-09-2014, 05:36 PM
I think we will see vintage Bosh. They had basically turned him into a glorified Robert Horry.

I like how people are sleeping on the Heat though, I think they will be seriously contending with the Bulls for best in the east....

Lol. Yeah maybe the Heat can play the Lakers in the finals this year.

Tony_Starks
10-09-2014, 05:53 PM
I like how you very blatantly ignored Cleveland in that second paragraph. Do you really think Miami and Chicago will finish with better records? Like, putting your Lebron hatred aside, do you honestly believe this?

I think they'll both be better because their teams and coaches are more familiar with each other.

The Cavs will have a lot of stuff to work out new system, new roles, that's going to take a while. Hell it took a while with the Miami superteam who was better IMO.

And Lebron hate? That's cute man. There's a difference between hating and just not blindly kissing his rear end like the rest of the sheep.

Everything isn't about your hero man. I know you think they'll win like 66-70 games but if someone disagrees don't just go the lazy route and dIsmiss them as "hater."

IKnowHoops
10-09-2014, 06:17 PM
I think they'll both be better because their teams and coaches are more familiar with each other.

The Cavs will have a lot of stuff to work out new system, new roles, that's going to take a while. Hell it took a while with the Miami superteam who was better IMO.

And Lebron hate? That's cute man. There's a difference between hating and just not blindly kissing his rear end like the rest of the sheep.

Everything isn't about your hero man. I know you think they'll win like 66-70 games but if someone disagrees don't just go the lazy route and dIsmiss them as "hater."

Everyone is entitled to there own opinion. I wish I could make a wager with you on this in some way shape or form. To me its just some of the easiest money out there.

85BearsDefense
10-09-2014, 06:27 PM
I don't think hes taking a jab at Lebron, I think hes being 100% honest. He was a 24 and 11 player in Toronto. I feel like going from being the alpha male to the 3rd option would 100% be frustrating. Especially due to the fact Miami really didn't use him to his full strengths. Bosh is ridiculous on the high post with face ups. Has one of the best shot fakes in the game, an elite jumper, and can blow right by you and finish at the rim. I think this year he goes back to being a 22-10 player. Bosh basically was just a spot up shooter in Miami. Rarely ever got an isolation plays. In the end if I was him I would have said the same thing, I applaud his honesty. It would have frustrated me as well.

85BearsDefense
10-09-2014, 06:29 PM
I 100% think Chicago finishes with a better record than Cleveland in the regular season based off Thibs is full speed ahead one speed full go all season and the team is familiar with one another. Not to mention when Rose has been healthy Bulls finished higher than Miami. I also think Miami should finish with a similar record to the Cavs. People forget how good Wade and Bosh are as the alpha males and they made some pretty underrated signings.

Bulls 55-62 wins
Cavs 50-56 wins
Heat 47-53 wins

Tony_Starks
10-09-2014, 06:38 PM
Not to mention the Cavs have a coach that will have to adjust from the Euro game to the NBA, and two stars that will be going from first options to 2nd and 3rd.

It's not beyond reason to think they may struggle out of the gate...

InRoseWeTrust
10-09-2014, 06:43 PM
Not to mention the Cavs have a coach that will have to adjust from the Euro game to the NBA, and two stars that will be going from first options to 2nd and 3rd.

It's not beyond reason to think they may struggle out of the gate...

Sure, they might have some rough patches here and there. But to think Miami is going to put up a better W total than them through the course of a season? Come on, man.

Hawkeye15
10-09-2014, 07:09 PM
then you should have stayed with Toronto Chris, if you wanted 22 shots a game and to be the man...

JLynn943
10-09-2014, 07:14 PM
Love is already more the player the Heat were trying to make Bosh into anyway

beasted86
10-09-2014, 07:34 PM
A lot of fans want honesty in interviews, and here I think you have it all without all the PC nonsense.

Bosh thought playing as part of the Big 3 would be more fun, and that things would get easier as time went on, but learned it was the opposite. He understood how rewarding it could have been, and actually was, but underestimated how very challenging it would be to change his game to fit as part of the puzzle, and meet the demands defensively. He also gives pretty significant insight here one of the many reasons he chose to stay in Miami rather than go to Houston and (based on their initial plan) fight for shots and touches and chemistry between Howard, Harden, and Parsons.

I don't see what there is to take issue with anything that he's saying here. He's not taking any shots at LeBron, and admitting that he was wrong in his assumptions going into that team, but also that he's ready for a new challenge of a more focal role on offense.

GiantsSwaGG
10-09-2014, 08:35 PM
http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/4fe3fa9feab8ea2639000015/this-is-the-most-hilarious-chris-bosh-face-of-all-time.jpg

mightybosstone
10-09-2014, 08:40 PM
I think they'll both be better because their teams and coaches are more familiar with each other.

The Cavs will have a lot of stuff to work out new system, new roles, that's going to take a while. Hell it took a while with the Miami superteam who was better IMO.
But that Heat team still won 58 games and dominated the East in the playoffs. And there's not another team in the East remotely as talented as that Chicago team was that season that won 62 games. Like this Chicago team is not remotely as good as that Chicago team was.


And Lebron hate? That's cute man. There's a difference between hating and just not blindly kissing his rear end like the rest of the sheep.
I don't blindly kiss his rear, and I don't think that everyone who likes or respects the are "blind" or "sheep" either. I understand the game of basketball and I've been watching the NBA now for 20 years. I honestly think he's as good as I say he is. You don't have to like him, but at least respect the guy for who he is. I sincerely dislike Kobe, Duncan and Dirk. That doesn't stop me from ranking them all in the top 20 all-time or admitting that they're phenomenal players. They're nothing wrong with disliking somebody and admitting their great at the same time.


Everything isn't about your hero man. I know you think they'll win like 66-70 games but if someone disagrees don't just go the lazy route and dIsmiss them as "hater."
I don't think they'll win that may games. I think it will probably be more like 60-65. Also, that's assuming everyone stays healthy. But I think that any objective NBA fan could look at all the rosters in the East and immediately recognize just how much better the Cavs are than anyone else. If Rose and Pau were the same players from three years ago? That would be a different story. If the Cavs were in the East, that would be a different story. But neither of those things are true. Barring a major injury, I think it's very, very likely that the Cavs win the East, and I think most objective fans would agree with me.

jmartin80
10-09-2014, 09:29 PM
Bosh should really thank him for his two rings. I hate Lebron as everyone knows, but he should thank him for the rings and the extra millions he got from the Heat when Lebron left to greener pastures (as scripted.... haha I kid, I kid :) Do I?).

Props to him for sticking it out and not signing with a team featuring more all stars, but still...

WITZ
10-09-2014, 09:41 PM
I thought Bosh said he wasn't gonna talk about James and focus on his teammates and here he is a day later talking about guess who... Lebron :laugh2:

Tony_Starks
10-09-2014, 10:14 PM
As far as Love is concerned he should make the smoothest transition out of the 3. He actually shot more threes than he did twos last season, so he's more than content to camp out at the line and spot up.

Stats are going to take a dip, but he won't have to adjust his game a whole lot offensively. The question is will he be able to defend 5s like Bosh when they go small ball stretch floor....

Jarvo
10-09-2014, 10:57 PM
Some of you are reading way to deep into it.

What he means is going from being the man in Minny to a 2nd or 3rd option with the Cavs could get frustrating, Love is gonna see a dip in his numbers and maybe not as much plays called for him like Bosh went thru once he left the Raptors to go to Miami to be the 2nd or 3rd option.

ILLUSIONIST^248
10-10-2014, 12:10 AM
Of course it's frustrating! Who wants to have their stats sucked away by the black hole that is Lebron James? All players who play with Lebron take a statistical hit for a reason.

nastynice
10-10-2014, 12:18 AM
Here's the full quote for people asking about it:

ďYou just get your entree and thatís it," Bosh said. "Itís like, wait a minute, I need my appetizer and my dessert and my drink, what are you doing? And my bread basket. What is going on? Iím hungry! Itís a lot different. But if you can get through it, good things can happen. But it never gets easy. Even up until my last year of doing it, it never gets easier.Ē

I see nothing wrong or whiny with that

Raps18-19 Champ
10-10-2014, 12:27 AM
What exactly did he expect when he played with the best player in the league and another player better than him?

Raps18-19 Champ
10-10-2014, 12:29 AM
As far as Love is concerned he should make the smoothest transition out of the 3. He actually shot more threes than he did twos last season, so he's more than content to camp out at the line and spot up.

Stats are going to take a dip, but he won't have to adjust his game a whole lot offensively. The question is will he be able to defend 5s like Bosh when they go small ball stretch floor....

Yea that didn't happen.

Kaner
10-10-2014, 01:02 AM
But that Heat team still won 58 games and dominated the East in the playoffs. And there's not another team in the East remotely as talented as that Chicago team was that season that won 62 games. Like this Chicago team is not remotely as good as that Chicago team was.

Based on what? The 2014 Bulls are clearly more talented then the 2010 Bulls.

2014:Pau Gasol, Butler, Dunleavy, Mirotic, Hinrich, Mcdermott, and a much improved Noah and Gibson

2010: Boozer, Deng, Bogans, Korver, Watson, Ronnie Brewer

Only advantage 2010 has is Deng but having Butler starting over Bogans alone is a bigger advantage then Deng over Dunleavy. Only reason you're saying this is if your assuming Rose never returns to form. But then it won't be talent that holds the Bulls back this season it'll be health.

Kaner
10-10-2014, 01:09 AM
A lot of fans want honesty in interviews, and here I think you have it all without all the PC nonsense.

Bosh thought playing as part of the Big 3 would be more fun, and that things would get easier as time went on, but learned it was the opposite. He understood how rewarding it could have been, and actually was, but underestimated how very challenging it would be to change his game to fit as part of the puzzle, and meet the demands defensively. He also gives pretty significant insight here one of the many reasons he chose to stay in Miami rather than go to Houston and (based on their initial plan) fight for shots and touches and chemistry between Howard, Harden, and Parsons.

I don't see what there is to take issue with anything that he's saying here. He's not taking any shots at LeBron, and admitting that he was wrong in his assumptions going into that team, but also that he's ready for a new challenge of a more focal role on offense.

This. Bosh doesn't say anything wrong here, it probably is extremely frustrating taking on a completely different role especially when it conflicts with both the media and fans expectations of the production expected from him. He didn't say he regretted playing with him or that he wished that Lebron deferred to him. Just that it'd be a tough for love to adjust to.

sixer04fan
10-10-2014, 01:31 AM
Yeah Bosh. Being led to 4 straight finals by the best player on earth is SOOO frustrating. So much more frustrating than your Toronto days I bet. You remember, that team you were the "leader" of that sucked for years?

0nekhmer
10-10-2014, 01:49 AM
Not many players could do what bosh did for 4 years. He was a straight up monster in Toronto. Changing your entire game, sacrificing, just for another guy probably can get annoying when you know you're good enough to carry a team. However, he won 2 rings now, and solidified himself into the HOF so idk why he could say anything at this point.

goingfor28
10-10-2014, 02:21 AM
Rawr

Teeboy1487
10-10-2014, 02:32 AM
Sounds like sour grapes tbh.

MDD
10-10-2014, 03:25 AM
Bosh stats as the lead man never produced wins his teams were always struggling to make it to the playoffs

DemarDerozan
10-10-2014, 03:58 AM
Hell yeah it's frustrating...

LeBeotch turned two top 10 talents into top 30 talents in the span of four years due to selfishness and just being a dick really. Yeah they won two chips... But he and the NBA also robbed DWade and Bosh's potential legacies.

Two lockers? Especially when you have two legit superstars on your squad? Get the **** out of here LeEgo, the east will end up where it belongs this year. With Lebron losing. **** him and all the fans that follow him from team to team.

MJ=all time great. Kobe Bean= all time great. Bird= all time great. Magic= all time great. Bill Russell= All time great. And so on.

Lebron will never reach these expectations... Because he lacks integrity and loyalty.

Lebron will never be top 5 IMO. It's sad that basketball has wasted a decade+ on this superstar who has no true identity. When his ride is over they should call it the lost generation of NBA basketball.

DemarDerozan
10-10-2014, 04:06 AM
He was the only legit star on those Raptors teams. If Lebron would have signed somewhere else he would have lost to the DWade/Bosh combo every year.

MT2A
10-10-2014, 05:13 AM
Bosh is in serious need of a buffet. too bad they are in Rio and not Vegas

R. Johnson#3
10-10-2014, 06:31 AM
Bosh got to be the man in Toronto but then he decides to go to a team with 2 players better than him (Lebron & Wade) and he starts crying about how it's frustrating to win back to back championships. What a little baby.

prodigy
10-10-2014, 08:37 AM
Bosh and wades games just didn't fit with lebron. Plus wade getting hurt all the time didn't help. Love and Irving being real shooters def fits lebrons game. It will be a better fit for sure.

ewing
10-10-2014, 09:01 AM
why go guys so mad? You have the ball in your hands every play from the time you are a little kid and then after 20 years you are asked to play a completely different style and role. In those first 20 years you developed instincts that have lead you to be successful and now you have to ignore them. Sounds frustrating.

mrblisterdundee
10-10-2014, 10:50 AM
Playing with LBJ is frustrating ... but you're almost guaranteed to win at least one title, because he's the best basketball player on the planet.

basketfan4life
10-10-2014, 11:52 AM
then you should have stayed with Toronto Chris, if you wanted 22 shots a game and to be the man...

I think that is not what he means. Not shot totals. It's more like not being an enough part of the offense and being a midrange to 3 point spot up jump shooter in spite being accountable with the ball. And this might actually cost the heat a ship.

waveycrockett
10-10-2014, 12:11 PM
Chris Bosh was a legit 25 and 10 guy on a decent playoff team before he came to the HEAT. I think he definitely has a point dude had to make a huge sacrifice to his game to make it work with LeBron.

WadeKobe
10-10-2014, 12:29 PM
I think they'll both be better because their teams and coaches are more familiar with each other.

The Cavs will have a lot of stuff to work out new system, new roles, that's going to take a while. Hell it took a while with the Miami superteam who was better IMO.

And Lebron hate? That's cute man. There's a difference between hating and just not blindly kissing his rear end like the rest of the sheep.

Everything isn't about your hero man. I know you think they'll win like 66-70 games but if someone disagrees don't just go the lazy route and dIsmiss them as "hater."

But you are a Lebron hater. Your post history proves it. You've always been.

GiantsSwaGG
10-10-2014, 12:47 PM
Chris Bosh was a legit 25 and 10 guy on a decent playoff team before he came to the HEAT. I think he definitely has a point dude had to make a huge sacrifice to his game to make it work with LeBron.

Dwayne Wade was a top 5 player and made sacrifices himself. I don't see him complaining

colinskik
10-10-2014, 01:01 PM
I understand what Bosh is saying here, but what the hell did he expect? He joined a team with two of the five best players in the league at the time and both guys who were guaranteed future first ballot Hall of Famers and then he wants to complain after he won two championships that he didn't get the ball enough? I'm sorry, but he comes off as kind of an idiot with that quote.

I'm sorry that you didn't get an appetizer and dessert to go with your entree, but your entree was getting to play with two of the best wings in NBA history, go to four NBA Finals in four years and winning two rings. That's a pretty ****ing great entree. There are more talented guys in the league who are getting appetizers, entrees and desserts at the crappy Denny's down the street. He just got steak and lobster at a 5-star restaurant downtown. Quit *****ing and appreciate what you had.

This is exactly what I was going to say. When your entree is a goldleaf crusted kobe steak topped with foie gras, caviar, and black truffles, you don't need a sorry appetizer. Save room for the good stuff, Bosh.

In basketball terms, you can either be a stat stuffer on a losing team (i.e., Bosh in Toronto and Love in Min) or you can be an average-to-good player on a team that wins it all. I think the frustrations he encountered when altering his game in Miami for the good hold no weight to the fact that he won it all -- twice!

hugepatsfan
10-10-2014, 01:11 PM
Bosh didn't say anything that didn't make sense. He didn't say he'd rather put up stats than win. Lots of people find change frustrating to deal with. When you've been doing something one way your entire life and then you have to learn to do it differently that's frustrating for a lot of people. It doesn't mean you don't appreciate why the change is necessary or recognize that it's for your benefit. It just means that the learning curve is challenging at times.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-10-2014, 01:32 PM
Not to sound like a complete hater on Bosh but even when he was with the Raptors. He was just a stat padder on losing team. Only average ten or more boards for only three seasons. That's in 33 to 39 minutes per game as well. Was never that great of a rebounder. Heck you could bring Danny Fortson out of retirement and can get 10 minutes of garbage time and still could grab a quick 12 boards. Bosh reminds me of Shareef Abdur Rahim back with Vancouver Grizzlies losing every game and padding his stats as well.

abe_froman
10-10-2014, 01:38 PM
yeah,there is some sourness behind this.but he is right about the sacrifices he had to make(and love will have to)to make it work

IKnowHoops
10-10-2014, 01:52 PM
This is exactly what I was going to say. When your entree is a goldleaf crusted kobe steak topped with foie gras, caviar, and black truffles, you don't need a sorry appetizer. Save room for the good stuff, Bosh.

In basketball terms, you can either be a stat stuffer on a losing team (i.e., Bosh in Toronto and Love in Min) or you can be an average-to-good player on a team that wins it all. I think the frustrations he encountered when altering his game in Miami for the good hold no weight to the fact that he won it all -- twice!

Yeah, I agree with everything here. If he was a better player, then he wouldn't of taken such a back seat. he had plenty of opportunities to show up big and he showed up small. He was not a dependable big for a champion. He was not Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq. He had to be carried while he played at a B/B- level. The Heat could not afford to play off him and win rings. He went for 0 points in a game 7 for crying out loud.

He wasn't even an old decrepit David Robinson. Drob got like 15/17 in his last game in which he won a title. The Heat would of killed for a performance like that from Bosh. I think those are the type of performances we will see from K-love on a consistent basis. K-love will be able to make a difference and contribute every night unlike Bosh, because K love will board like a monster.

albertajaysfan
10-10-2014, 01:59 PM
I love his honesty when he does interviews, doesn't go the "righ thing to say" route.
he's just describing what its like for a number one option to be a third option for the sake of winning. not only did his stats suffer, but his game did as well. he became basically a spot up shooter half the time, so LeBron could have space to drive, and then get criticized for not rebounding enough. It doesn't seem like he's complaining to me.

Agreed.

It is perplexing how often people throw athletes under the bus for being real.

I saw this answer as being that for such a talented player it was hard to adjust his game. He was used to being the man and altering his game and therefor thought process was difficult. But as he said in the quote good things come of it.

WSU Tony
10-10-2014, 02:09 PM
Bosh can still play with Lebron if he wants... Sign for the league minimum like so many other vets are doing. A "hard cap" doesn't mean a thing in the NBA, remember?

If I were an NBA player watching vets sign for laughably low contracts to play with Lebron I'd take a fine and suspension to get a jab in on the court. Set the precedent - If you're signing a tiny contract to play with Lebron and ring chase you'll get chipped at every game you step on the court.

bucketss
10-10-2014, 02:16 PM
he asked for the gasol role, and he got it, well atleast he gets more respect than gasol

bucketss
10-10-2014, 02:18 PM
he took less money to be a third option, after claiming he wanted to be the man. now he's crying because better players took his spotlight.

IKnowHoops
10-10-2014, 02:22 PM
Bosh can still play with Lebron if he wants... Sign for the league minimum like so many other vets are doing. A "hard cap" doesn't mean a thing in the NBA, remember?

If I were an NBA player watching vets sign for laughably low contracts to play with Lebron I'd take a fine and suspension to get a jab in on the court. Set the precedent - If you're signing a tiny contract to play with Lebron and ring chase you'll get chipped at every game you step on the court.


Sounds personal

TheIlladelph16
10-10-2014, 06:24 PM
Bosh can still play with Lebron if he wants... Sign for the league minimum like so many other vets are doing. A "hard cap" doesn't mean a thing in the NBA, remember?

If I were an NBA player watching vets sign for laughably low contracts to play with Lebron I'd take a fine and suspension to get a jab in on the court. Set the precedent - If you're signing a tiny contract to play with Lebron and ring chase you'll get chipped at every game you step on the court.

Yes, let's all encourage grown men to act like children. That seems like a foolproof plan.

todu82
10-10-2014, 06:33 PM
Sounds like sour grapes from Bosh here.

HeatFan
10-10-2014, 06:35 PM
I think there he is a little sour with LeBron. Bosh was a bona fide superstar with the Raptors and now you have someone breathing down your throat, talking on interviews about having to step up (Lebron always talks about "I have to lead", "everyone follow me"), always seemed like he had the Heat hostage if they didn't do what he said, plus all the bad press they got because of how Lebron made the "Decision" and how he then went off to say they would win a decade of championships. Bosh really took a hit and the pressure they must have had was worse than any other team has faced that I know of (in any sport - maybe Yankees a close second because of media and ridiculous payroll).

After all that he leaves the first opportunity he can. Must be frustrating. I agree with some here that he had a great team for 4 years. However, the price he has paid in his professional career and personal life during those 4 years must not have been easy. That said, he has to move on and choose better words when talking about Lebron. It looks like Lebron has learned what to say and what not to say. Bosh should do the same.

Grizzly Adams
10-10-2014, 06:36 PM
I'm curious to what more Bosh could have wanted. If I'm a player who has the chance to be on the same team as LeBron, I would gladly be "frustrated" for the chance to win it all.

If you really wanted to send a message, hit the gym and the court even harder than ever before. Improved your game and let your play speak for you. None of this pre-meditated high school drama coming from "grown men".

HeatFan
10-10-2014, 06:39 PM
I'm curious to what more Bosh could have wanted. If I'm a player who has the chance to be on the same team as LeBron, I would gladly be "frustrated" for the chance to win it all.

If you really wanted to send a message, hit the gym and the court even harder than ever before. Improved your game and let your play speak for you. None of this pre-meditated high school drama coming from "grown men".

the notion of playing with Lebron is intriguing for most players but when you actually do and get the scrutiny the Heat got (deserved or not), you have to admit its tough, even if your making millions. The whole league basically ridiculed the Heat and rooted against them. Eventually to some extent it changed but for a while they were public enemy #1. they are human beings!!

THE MTL
10-10-2014, 08:30 PM
I think Love is a better compliment to Lebron than Bosh could ever be

Sssmush
10-10-2014, 08:50 PM
I don't know about y'all, but I'm expecting a huge comical meltdown in Cleveland, sooner rather than later.

I'm talking the full enchilada, complete with an angry Dan Gilbert media meltdown. LoL they dumped Wiggins and Bennett for the privilege of signing KLove 9 months earlier, and because Lebron is the acting GM. What a joke. KLove rarely if ever plays 82 games, and if he misses some time because of a sprained ankle or something and Kyrie also happens to be out with some kind of owwwie, then LoL *presto* you'll have Lebron James out there with a couple of scrubs and no frontcourt. Like Lebron and a 6'9" unathletic 35 year old center from the Greek league.

Meanwhile, back in Miami... BOSH is blowing up, exploring his full potential and taking it to the next level. Boom. Luol Deng finally gets fully utilized. Wade is resurgent. Spoelstra starts making his bones and proving he wasn't just Lebrons butler. Boom.

Miami might win 10 more games than Cleveland this year. That's just math.

Sssmush
10-10-2014, 08:54 PM
Also, based on what we saw in the Finals last year, Cleveland might be getting the post super-stardom fat Elvis version of Lebron, and/or the 225 lb post-HGH Lebron if that happens to be true.

But whatever, I know Lebron can play. And I know Cleveland was a great PR move. But the Cavs... ugggh. Gilbert... ewwwww. Their title chances? nawwwwwwww.

Kevj77
10-10-2014, 09:04 PM
Bosh wasn't being bitter he was just being honest. Also that article you linked is only a small portion of the interview that is being taken out of context.

WITZ
10-10-2014, 09:16 PM
I don't know about y'all, but I'm expecting a huge comical meltdown in Cleveland, sooner rather than later.

I'm talking the full enchilada, complete with an angry Dan Gilbert media meltdown. LoL they dumped Wiggins and Bennett for the privilege of signing KLove 9 months earlier, and because Lebron is the acting GM. What a joke. KLove rarely if ever plays 82 games, and if he misses some time because of a sprained ankle or something and Kyrie also happens to be out with some kind of owwwie, then LoL *presto* you'll have Lebron James out there with a couple of scrubs and no frontcourt. Like Lebron and a 6'9" unathletic 35 year old center from the Greek league.

Meanwhile, back in Miami... BOSH is blowing up, exploring his full potential and taking it to the next level. Boom. Luol Deng finally gets fully utilized. Wade is resurgent. Spoelstra starts making his bones and proving he wasn't just Lebrons butler. Boom.

Miami might win 10 more games than Cleveland this year. That's just math.

Cocaine's a hell of a drug :laugh2:

Tony_Starks
10-10-2014, 09:21 PM
I don't see how anybody can hate on Bosh. He did everything they asked him to do, made every sacrifice, and guess what?......they went to 4 straight Finals as a result. And let's not pretend like he didn't make a ton of clutch shots during that time.

He did his job, he's just saying it wasn't easy.

5ass
10-10-2014, 11:51 PM
I don't see how anybody can hate on Bosh. He did everything they asked him to do, made every sacrifice, and guess what?......they went to 4 straight Finals as a result. And let's not pretend like he didn't make a ton of clutch shots during that time.

He did his job, he's just saying it wasn't easy.
No. He wasn't a consistent shooter. So many open shots missed. He should've regularly been one of the best shooters in the league. He also didn't have the balls to play center. He just can't bang with the bigger guys. He's soft. Couldn't be consistent rebounding or defending.
The fact that you said he did what was asked of him is crazy. What games were you watching? A max player should never be detrimental to his team. At times bosh was exactly that. Long story short, they would've been better off signing Brandon bass for the MLE.

5ass
10-10-2014, 11:55 PM
I don't know about y'all, but I'm expecting a huge comical meltdown in Cleveland, sooner rather than later.

I'm talking the full enchilada, complete with an angry Dan Gilbert media meltdown. LoL they dumped Wiggins and Bennett for the privilege of signing KLove 9 months earlier, and because Lebron is the acting GM. What a joke. KLove rarely if ever plays 82 games, and if he misses some time because of a sprained ankle or something and Kyrie also happens to be out with some kind of owwwie, then LoL *presto* you'll have Lebron James out there with a couple of scrubs and no frontcourt. Like Lebron and a 6'9" unathletic 35 year old center from the Greek league.

Meanwhile, back in Miami... BOSH is blowing up, exploring his full potential and taking it to the next level. Boom. Luol Deng finally gets fully utilized. Wade is resurgent. Spoelstra starts making his bones and proving he wasn't just Lebrons butler. Boom.

Miami might win 10 more games than Cleveland this year. That's just math.

Lol. You' re more bitter than bosh.

Tony_Starks
10-11-2014, 12:18 AM
No. He wasn't a consistent shooter. So many open shots missed. He should've regularly been one of the best shooters in the league. He also didn't have the balls to play center. He just can't bang with the bigger guys. He's soft. Couldn't be consistent rebounding or defending.
The fact that you said he did what was asked of him is crazy. What games were you watching? A max player should never be detrimental to his team. At times bosh was exactly that. Long story short, they would've been better off signing Brandon bass for the MLE.

Not a consistent shooter? He shot over 50%. And it's not dunks or layups a like a typical big but basically all jumpers.

If you think putting up 16 and 7 as a third option playing out of position is a liability then I don't know what to tell you boss.

And I guess you missed all those dagger corner 3's he hit in the playoffs last year. Or perhaps the offensive board and assist to Ray that saved Lebrons a ss the year before. I'm not sure what games YOU were watching...

ManRam
10-11-2014, 12:24 AM
sour grapes

5ass
10-11-2014, 01:05 AM
Not a consistent shooter? He shot over 50%. And it's not dunks or layups a like a typical big but basically all jumpers.

If you think putting up 16 and 7 as a third option playing out of position is a liability then I don't know what to tell you boss.

And I guess you missed all those dagger corner 3's he hit in the playoffs last year. Or perhaps the offensive board and assist to Ray that saved Lebrons a ss the year before. I'm not sure what games YOU were watching...

He had many games where he couldn't make a shot. Especially in the play offs. How many games did they lose because bosh couldn't contain the big man and protect the paint? How many times in the play offs was Chris bosh exposed?
That offensive rebound was not impressive. Again what were you watching? Spurs didn't have one player over 6'8 on the floor. He was battling guards for a rebound. Of course your hate for LeBron blinds you to think bosh is a great player. You have proven once again you just want to bash lebron. Bosh's softness is one of the biggest reasons why the heat didn't win as much as they should have. If you think LeBron was the problem, you're crazy.

DemarDerozan
10-11-2014, 01:32 AM
Lebron is a scavenger smoker. He saw that DWade and Bosh had something nice coming up so he came in used their **** and left when he saw a better opportunity where nice pieces just happened to fall, I guarantee if this year doesn't go smoothly he will be on his way to a major market in no time. New York or LA will be really appealing after this new media deal. Not to mention the big city bumps from endorsements. This clown will further destroy his own legacy to make that $. Poor mans Magic Johnson with a Shaq mentality.

DemarDerozan
10-11-2014, 01:33 AM
MJ never lost. Kobe never lost three times. Neither abandoned there teams... Regardless of how bad **** got.

Can you imagine Lebron playing a full season with Luke Walton or Smush Parker as his second option?

DemarDerozan
10-11-2014, 01:39 AM
Also, based on what we saw in the Finals last year, Cleveland might be getting the poster uber-stardom fat Elvis version of Lebron, and/or the 225 lb post-HGH Lebron if that happens to be true.

But whatever, I know Lebron can play. And I know Cleveland was a great PR move. But the Cavs... ugggh. Gilbert... ewwwww. Their title chances? nawwwwwwww.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Classic Bro! My thoughts exactly. I think the feel good Cleveland story will be shortlived after LeRoid finds himself in the middle of the parent trap that is Kyrie/Waiters. Not to mention KLove/AV have the potential to play one season combined.

Also, who is this teams Chalmers going to be? For the past four years that poor kid had to deal with three superstars yelling at him when one of them ****ed up. With all these young egos running wild, post-prime Bron, and injury prone star bigs... Who is going to be the fall guy when **** goes wrong?

Arch Stanton
10-11-2014, 02:46 AM
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Classic Bro! My thoughts exactly. I think the feel good Cleveland story will be shortlived after LeRoid finds himself in the middle of the parent trap that is Kyrie/Waiters. Not to mention KLove/AV have the potential to play one season combined.

Also, who is this teams Chalmers going to be? For the past four years that poor kid had do deal with three superstars yelling at him when one of them ****ed up. With all these young egos running wild, post-prime Bron, and injury prone star bigs... Who is going to be the fall guy when **** goes wrong?

Yeah you're clearly mad!

DemarDerozan
10-11-2014, 02:57 AM
Yeah you're clearly mad!

This squad reminds me more of the 12-13 Lakers than the KG/Allen/Pierce Celtics or Wade/Bron/Bosh Heat teams.

Sadds The Gr8
10-11-2014, 03:43 AM
Rupual is a twat

IKnowHoops
10-11-2014, 05:42 AM
Not a consistent shooter? He shot over 50%. And it's not dunks or layups a like a typical big but basically all jumpers.

If you think putting up 16 and 7 as a third option playing out of position is a liability then I don't know what to tell you boss.

And I guess you missed all those dagger corner 3's he hit in the playoffs last year. Or perhaps the offensive board and assist to Ray that saved Lebrons a ss the year before. I'm not sure what games YOU were watching...



Followed by a 0pt game 7

IKnowHoops
10-11-2014, 05:48 AM
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Classic Bro! My thoughts exactly. I think the feel good Cleveland story will be shortlived after LeRoid finds himself in the middle of the parent trap that is Kyrie/Waiters. Not to mention KLove/AV have the potential to play one season combined.

Also, who is this teams Chalmers going to be? For the past four years that poor kid had to deal with three superstars yelling at him when one of them ****ed up. With all these young egos running wild, post-prime Bron, and injury prone star bigs... Who is going to be the fall guy when **** goes wrong?

He won't need to yell at anyone because chalmers isn't on the Cavs. Bron also has a real coach now that will yell at players if they mess up.

beasted86
10-11-2014, 07:39 AM
No. He wasn't a consistent shooter. So many open shots missed. He should've regularly been one of the best shooters in the league. He also didn't have the balls to play center. He just can't bang with the bigger guys. He's soft. Couldn't be consistent rebounding or defending.
The fact that you said he did what was asked of him is crazy. What games were you watching? A max player should never be detrimental to his team. At times bosh was exactly that. Long story short, they would've been better off signing Brandon bass for the MLE.

Well just goes to show you have not one bit of an idea what you're talking about. Bosh lead the league a couple times as a shooter in that 15-20 area, and was top 5 at finishing at the rim, finishing much higher than guys like Tyson Chandler. It's also a fact Bosh was top 3 best in defending the pick and roll. Actually do some research before posting guesswork and story tales.

waveycrockett
10-11-2014, 10:44 AM
Dwayne Wade was a top 5 player and made sacrifices himself. I don't see him complaining

Wades declining health had as much to do with his dip in numbers. Bosh was in his prime. They both made sacrifices but think Bosh career took a bigger hit.

5ass
10-11-2014, 12:47 PM
Well just goes to show you have not one bit of an idea what you're talking about. Bosh lead the league a couple times as a shooter in that 15-20 area, and was top 5 at finishing at the rim, finishing much higher than guys like Tyson Chandler. It's also a fact Bosh was top 3 best in defending the pick and roll. Actually do some research before posting guesswork and story tales.

He was not a consistent shooter in the play offs. How many games did he go 0 for something? How many wide open jumpers did he miss? I don't know what finishing at the rim has to do with it. I said he can't bang with the big guys. That's a fact. Bosh himself will tell you that. Bosh greatly benefited from playing with a good defensive team, part of the reason his pick n roll numbers are so good. Though you went out of your way to praise his defense when you damn well he's too soft to defend the paint consistently.

5ass
10-11-2014, 01:33 PM
You want some research?
In 10-11 and 11-12, bosh shot 44% from 16 Ft to 3 pt line. In the play offs he shot 37%. Considering most of his jump shots came from that area, that's a major drop.

beasted86
10-11-2014, 01:43 PM
He was not a consistent shooter in the play offs. How many games did he go 0 for something? How many wide open jumpers did he miss? I don't know what finishing at the rim has to do with it. I said he can't bang with the big guys. That's a fact. Bosh himself will tell you that. Bosh greatly benefited from playing with a good defensive team, part of the reason his pick n roll numbers are so good. Though you went out of your way to praise his defense when you damn well he's too soft to defend the paint consistently.


You want some research?
In 10-11 and 11-12, bosh shot 44% from 16 Ft to 3 pt line. In the play offs he shot 37%. Considering most of his jump shots came from that area, that's a major drop.
False, the synergy stats and on off ratings point directly to Bosh as the catalyst for Miami's pick and roll defense.

What player don't you expect their numbers to drop from the regular season to playoffs? LeBron's and Durant's numbers drop during the playoffs and they are the two best in the game. It's called improved playoff defenses.

Bosh is not a Center and isn't a banger.. doesn't mean I can't appreciate his impact and effectiveness.. and it's not a blind homer opinion, the numbers support him as elite in the role he played on offense and defense. Would I like some more rebounds? Sure, but nobody said he was perfect, just very good... on the other hand you're claiming he's a MLE player who is a fringe starter at best. Way to take it to the extreme to try and make a point while making yourself look stupid instead.

5ass
10-11-2014, 02:18 PM
False, the synergy stats and on off ratings point directly to Bosh as the catalyst for Miami's pick and roll defense.

What player don't you expect their numbers to drop from the regular season to playoffs? LeBron's and Durant's numbers drop during the playoffs and they are the two best in the game. It's called improved playoff defenses.

Bosh is not a Center and isn't a banger.. doesn't mean I can't appreciate his impact and effectiveness.. and it's not a blind homer opinion, the numbers support him as elite in the role he played on offense and defense. Would I like some more rebounds? Sure, but nobody said he was perfect, just very good... on the other hand you're claiming he's a MLE player who is a fringe starter at best. Way to take it to the extreme to try and make a point while making yourself look stupid instead.

No, stupid. I said they would've been better off signing bass for the MLE. That's because you leave more money to build the rest of your team, and probably get a legit center. You get more value for your dollar with bass quite easily. I never said bass would've been just as good.
Improved play off defenses is not a good excuse here. Way too big of a drop, and we're talking about mostly assisted jump shots.

bucketss
10-11-2014, 04:07 PM
a lot of wishful thinking in this thread :laugh:

Chronz
10-11-2014, 04:21 PM
Nothing to see here folks... move along now

Seriously tho, you can find something/someone frustrating but still be appreciative of them. Isn't that basically what a marriage is, maybe Bosh was trying to be romantic.

Anyways, I expect the Heat to field a .530 team, I dont know what to expect from Wade or Bosh anymore but definitely not a return to their perceived dominant forms. I think whatever gains Bosh makes offensively, must not be followed by a sudden decline in defensive effort ala Toronto Bosh.

amos1er
10-11-2014, 08:01 PM
I knew this would happen and have been echoing this same sentiment for years now. Like clockwork Bosh came out frustrated with his lessened stat production he suffered playing with Lebron for four seasons. Sometimes I feel like a strait up profit when I call these things. Too bad ya'all don't listen to me more. :)

bucketss
10-11-2014, 08:21 PM
I knew this would happen and have been echoing this same sentiment for years now. Like clockwork Bosh came out frustrated with his lessened stat production he suffered playing with Lebron for four seasons. Sometimes I feel like a strait up profit when I call these things. Too bad ya'all don't listen to me more. :)

i think everyone knew bosh's stats would take a huge hit considering he went from 1st option to 3rd. you don't have to be a genius to predict that, but at the end of the day he asked for it, not only that he took a paycut.

5ass
10-11-2014, 08:23 PM
I knew this would happen and have been echoing this same sentiment for years now. Like clockwork Bosh came out frustrated with his lessened stat production he suffered playing with Lebron for four seasons. Sometimes I feel like a strait up profit when I call these things. Too bad ya'all don't listen to me more. :)
Too bad you don't know the difference between prophet and profit. Now go make a dupe account to vote for Kobe on the all time list ;).

amos1er
10-11-2014, 08:44 PM
Too bad you don't know the difference between prophet and profit. Now go make a dupe account to vote for Kobe on the all time list ;).

Too bad your best retorts are spelling corrections. I type over 80 wpm. So sue me if I'm not perfect.

amos1er
10-11-2014, 08:46 PM
i think everyone knew bosh's stats would take a huge hit considering he went from 1st option to 3rd. you don't have to be a genius to predict that, but at the end of the day he asked for it, not only that he took a paycut.

True, but when does anyone ever agree become a third option rebounder. How does that help the team overall...

We all know that Bron Bron needs his boards.

Sssmush
10-11-2014, 09:00 PM
Look, nobody is saying that Lebron isn't a great player. He is. Lebron is a great, fantastic player.

Now... maybe he doesn't have the extreme offensive skills of a Kobe or a Jordan, which might've allowed the Heat to get back into some games in the Finals this year when they desperately needed a clutch basket but kept coming up empty... but that in no way diminishes the fact that Lebron is a magnificent player who dominates both sides of the ball.

Just sayin'... Cleveland needing Lebron SO BAD that they put him on a one year contract and let Lebron act as GM and trade away two overall #1s + more picks for a single season of Kevin Love... that puts them in a really bad situation.

How about this? What if after the season Dan Gilbert gets tape recorded by a hooker, and Lebron justs walks, WITH Kevin Love, and signs in Boston or LA? What then? There's actually nothing to stop it, they're all total free agents. IN CLEVELAND.

LoL folks, bring on the drama.

but yeah, Lebron as GM is a bad idea. Bosh is a beast. Interested to see Bosh be the #1 in Miami, I really feel like Miami will be just fine.

bucketss
10-11-2014, 09:02 PM
True, but when does anyone ever agree become a third option rebounder. How does that help the team overall...

We all know that Bron Bron needs his boards.

same bosh who is known for padding his reboundin stats in toronto, hes been competing with bargnani and rasho nasterovic for boards most of his yrs

bucketss
10-11-2014, 09:16 PM
Look, nobody is saying that Lebron isn't a great player. He is. Lebron is a great, fantastic player.

Now... maybe he doesn't have the extreme offensive skills of a Kobe or a Jordan, which might've allowed the Heat to get back into some games in the Finals this year when they desperately needed a clutch basket but kept coming up empty... but that in no way diminishes the fact that Lebron is a magnificent player who dominates both sides of the ball.

Just sayin'... Cleveland needing Lebron SO BAD that they put him on a one year contract and let Lebron act as GM and trade away two overall #1s + more picks for a single season of Kevin Love... that puts them in a really bad situation.

How about this? What if after the season Dan Gilbert gets tape recorded by a hooker, and Lebron justs walks, WITH Kevin Love, and signs in Boston or LA? What then? There's actually nothing to stop it, they're all total free agents. IN CLEVELAND.

LoL folks, bring on the drama.

but yeah, Lebron as GM is a bad idea. Bosh is a beast. Interested to see Bosh be the #1 in Miami, I really feel like Miami will be just fine.

you have been doing a lot of wishful thinking in this thread,

WITZ
10-11-2014, 09:29 PM
Look, nobody is saying that Lebron isn't a great player. He is. Lebron is a great, fantastic player.

Now... maybe he doesn't have the extreme offensive skills of a Kobe or a Jordan, which might've allowed the Heat to get back into some games in the Finals this year when they desperately needed a clutch basket but kept coming up empty... but that in no way diminishes the fact that Lebron is a magnificent player who dominates both sides of the ball.

Just sayin'... Cleveland needing Lebron SO BAD that they put him on a one year contract and let Lebron act as GM and trade away two overall #1s + more picks for a single season of Kevin Love... that puts them in a really bad situation.

How about this? What if after the season Dan Gilbert gets tape recorded by a hooker, and Lebron justs walks, WITH Kevin Love, and signs in Boston or LA? What then? There's actually nothing to stop it, they're all total free agents. IN CLEVELAND.

LoL folks, bring on the drama.

but yeah, Lebron as GM is a bad idea. Bosh is a beast. Interested to see Bosh be the #1 in Miami, I really feel like Miami will be just fine.

U have to be a heat fan :laugh2: btw trading #2 number one picks ONE pick which is slated to be in the late 20 and another who was regarded as one of the worst draft picks in recent memory and your saying trading them was a mistake for love lmao. GM lebron also did a horrible job as well getting marion, miller on reasonably cheap contracts & getting Love to join what a horrible gm we should have just signed McRoberts & Granger instead I suppose .

Arch Stanton
10-11-2014, 10:08 PM
Haters gonna hate!

IKnowHoops
10-11-2014, 10:21 PM
Seeing as how Love with Lebron just outplayed Bosh without him, I really doubt the Lebron/Love combination will be as frustrating as it was for Bosh.

amos1er
10-11-2014, 10:41 PM
Seeing as how Love with Lebron just outplayed Bosh without him, I really doubt the Lebron/Love combination will be as frustrating as it was for Bosh.

Pre-Season.

amos1er
10-11-2014, 10:55 PM
same bosh who is known for padding his reboundin stats in toronto, hes been competing with bargnani and rasho nasterovic for boards most of his yrs

Bargnani and Nasterovic didn't have rebounding quotas lobbied for by their handlers.

Sssmush
10-12-2014, 05:04 AM
U have to be a heat fan :laugh2: btw trading #2 number one picks ONE pick which is slated to be in the late 20 and another who was regarded as one of the worst draft picks in recent memory and your saying trading them was a mistake for love lmao. GM lebron also did a horrible job as well getting marion, miller on reasonably cheap contracts & getting Love to join what a horrible gm we should have just signed McRoberts & Granger instead I suppose .

Hey, I'm actually super interested to see the Cavs play this year, and I hope they are good. I think they probably will be.

What kind of gave me some hesitancy though was that when Lebron first signed in Cleveland, the idea was really compelling because on top of all the other pieces in place they also had Bennett and Wiggins. It was really compelling to me to see them all team up. And really, those two players represented long term future prospects for Cleveland -- at least 7 years. Lebron could wind up being gone in one year if him and Gilbert get on each other's nerves.

Kevin Love could've been got for a lot less. It was well known he wouldn't sign anywhere but LA, NY or Cleveland, so Minnesota had almost no trading leverage. The deal could've waited until January and you could've just given up Bennett and a #1 probably, and kept Wiggins. In the meantime you could let those guys play and see how they're doing.

And even if you don't think Wiggins has Blake Griffin type athleticism (he does) and won't be an all star (he probably will be), I mean you could have for sure traded him for another valuable piece, maybe a Gordon from Detroit or a somebody like that, or another piece from Sacramento or Utah. Wiggins had hella trade value, so just giving him away for nothing, after winning the most anticipated draft lottery in years, when you could've got KLove for much less in 3 months, or scot-free next July, was a mistake. Sorry, it just was, and if you ask me it's a mistake to let a player, any player, or his management team dictate those kind of decisions to you.

Wiggins, and to a lesser extent Bennett, represented extremely valuable long term assets, double blue chip trade prospects with a lot of upside. And again, KLove would've signed in Cleveland anyway.

But the current team there will be really cool, and who knows maybe it rises to title level. I'm just always hoping for the big free agent getting sweated by his team like KLove was (or Carmelo was in Denver, for example) I'm always hoping those guys will just refuse to sign anywhere they're traded and just go completely unrestricted. It bugs me when a team like Minnesota gets rewarded for two overall number ones for a player who had every right to be a total unrestricted free agent in just a few months anyway. So, that's part of it. I was hoping Lebron would take the long view and be patient, sing Klove in free agency or make a good deal in january .

FlashBolt
10-12-2014, 09:43 AM
Bosh is an idiot and he - along with many Heat players, are quick to blame LeBron for their failures and mishaps. LeBron has never blamed a single one of them. Dwayne Wade needs to get in here and teach his fellow Heat players the meaning of respect. Yes, LeBron CAME to Miami. Yes, Miami WON the championship. But LeBron was their missing piece. He accounts for the biggest portion as to why they won. There is no way outside of KD/LJ that Miami makes 4 NBA Finals appearances. Bosh's game may have been hindered but it's not as "huge" as he thinks it is. There is absolutely zero excuse for him to grab under 7 boards a game. That is just not an excuse. Someone like Love who stretches the floor and is in the three pointer for a huge portion of his game manages to grab 12 rebounds. Bosh against Spurs was proved inefficient and was dominated by Duncan - two seasons in a row! I have no doubt Bosh will be a top 10 PF but he is not going to be a top 5. He can cry and be as emotional as he wants but that doesn't change that he was consistently dominated by the Pacers year in and year out. Chalmers on the other hand needs to appreciate being on James presence rather than complaining about missed opportunities. The fact is, he was a huge reason why Miami lost to the Spurs. He had arguably the worst performance for a PG in the NBA Finals. Heck, Norris Cole/Napier might steal an abundance of his minutes this season. Chalmers will be EXPOSED this season when he's forced to handle the ball and doesn't have the likes of James to save him from a terrible error. The talk went from Heat being the 2nd favorites to win the championship to them being lucky to even be 4th in contention for it. This is not a coincidence. This is simply the sheer impact James will have on any team. Heat are in for a surprise. I think they'll be the 4-5th seed but they need to stop whining and moaning about what could have been if not for James. They would have been losing and getting eliminated by the Celtics/Pacers while James may or may not have received help but at least he still would have been a great player. I can't say the same for Wade/Bosh. Let's not also forget that because of James absence, the three point shooting for Miami is going to drop exponentially. We won't see Bosh there and certainly will be seeing less of Chalmers/Cole. It's just jawdropping that they resort to these tactics to try and hide their true feelings of James being gone. He left and a huge reason why is because no one outside the name of Rashard Lewis, did a single thing vs the Spurs. Maybe had Bosh been able to put up 20/10, Wade being able to be a 18/6/6 player, and everyone else contributing, they would have beaten Spurs. Instead, you get a Wade who was outplayed by Danny Green and a Chris Bosh; who claims he is an elite player but consistently gets destroyed by Tim Duncan. Furthermore, Spoelstra will be exposed indefinitely. The only upside to Miami is that we finally see James Ennis being put to good use. Kid is a stud and I think he should have been on their roster instead of Michael Beasley or Oden. He would have been a good perimeter defender and certainly their 3-4th option when Wade was out. However, due to coaching incapability, Spoelstra decided it was a great idea to not do so. Let's look at another area where Spo failed Miami. He has horrible adjustments. Watch the NBA Finals where Pop made changes in the lineups and rotated players left and right. Spo chose to stick to what he knows - LeBron, LeBron, and LeBron. Against 28 of the teams, that will be enough. But against arguably a top 3 NBA Dynasty? You need a collective team effort and clearly, Spo did not exhibit any coaching that allowed for Miami to counter them. James has been on the record, endorsing the Heat coaching staff to give James Jones a rotation. What did they do? Keep him benched up. Yet, he was their best three point shooter and in the Finals, shot nearly 50% from three. But hey, what does James know? Let's listen to the terrible coach who's only advice to is "Just keep grindin." What a joke.

Chronz
10-12-2014, 02:12 PM
Bargnani and Nasterovic didn't have rebounding quotas lobbied for by their handlers.

Yes they did, that they couldn't meet them was a huge detriment to both the team and their individual worth. Even Bosh in Miami would tell you how disappointed hes been in his rebounding and how often hes fell short of meeting his own expectations in certain areas. Talking about how he doesn't like to bang and how its never been his game, Bron had to take the beating for him.

FlashBolt
10-12-2014, 02:19 PM
Yes they did, that they couldn't meet them was a huge detriment to both the team and their individual worth. Even Bosh in Miami would tell you how disappointed hes been in his rebounding and how often hes fell short of meeting his own expectations in certain areas. Talking about how he doesn't like to bang and how its never been his game, Bron had to take the beating for him.

Which is incredibly ironic because with LeBron gone, he's going to HAVE to bang it out and play a game in which he doesn't enjoy. Yeah, good luck standing there looking for threes, Bosh. You're never going to get those looks AGAIN.

Chronz
10-12-2014, 02:41 PM
Which is incredibly ironic because with LeBron gone, he's going to HAVE to bang it out and play a game in which he doesn't enjoy. Yeah, good luck standing there looking for threes, Bosh. You're never going to get those looks AGAIN.

I dont think hes going to bang more, he had like 1 season where he completely dedicated his game to dominating off the blocks and he admits it took its toll on his body. He shed the weight so he would never have to play that style again. I do think he will make the mid range game a bigger part of his arsenal, I think we might see LeMarcus Aldridge type numbers. What will matter most is his defense but we'll get to see what Bosh is really made of now. I still think he was never utilized to his full potential in Miami but I also think he let the team down with the constant no-shows.

Chronz
10-12-2014, 02:43 PM
True, but when does anyone ever agree become a third option rebounder. How does that help the team overall...

We all know that Bron Bron needs his boards.

Proof? We all know how awful u r when it comes to quantifying rebounding prowess.

FlashBolt
10-12-2014, 06:36 PM
I dont think hes going to bang more, he had like 1 season where he completely dedicated his game to dominating off the blocks and he admits it took its toll on his body. He shed the weight so he would never have to play that style again. I do think he will make the mid range game a bigger part of his arsenal, I think we might see LeMarcus Aldridge type numbers. What will matter most is his defense but we'll get to see what Bosh is really made of now. I still think he was never utilized to his full potential in Miami but I also think he let the team down with the constant no-shows.

He's already starting to play in the post more often and with the three point shooting pretty much declining, he's going to have to stay closer to the basket. Most of his shots came from the post on Saturday.

Sssmush
10-12-2014, 08:03 PM
Which is incredibly ironic because with LeBron gone, he's going to HAVE to bang it out and play a game in which he doesn't enjoy. Yeah, good luck standing there looking for threes, Bosh. You're never going to get those looks AGAIN.

You make some great points in your posts, however I would point out that what matters most is overall production. Bosh is more of a slender and athletic type of player, a guy you could almost envision as an SF/SG/PF hybrid or something, so we shouldn't just downgrade him for the fact that he's not a Tyson Chandler or a Lamarcus Aldrige/Marc Gasol type. Those guys are all way heavier and thicker than him.

But on the flipside, Bosh is faster and more athletic, especially in transition, and his mid-range game can be lethal if things are set up for him correctly. Think Bosh getting open off of screens or creating his own shot in one on one coverage, elevating over defenders and popping 12 footers. Also think about him playing hybrid perimeter defense like Anthony Davis, hawking the passing lanes and swooping in for blocks in help situations.

Miami will likely look a lot different as a Bosh oriented team this season and I don't think they will be terrible.

Sssmush
10-14-2014, 03:00 PM
/thread

gwrighter
10-14-2014, 03:05 PM
2 rings in exchange for frustration seems like a decent trade-off.

amos1er
10-17-2014, 02:00 AM
Yes they did, that they couldn't meet them was a huge detriment to both the team and their individual worth. Even Bosh in Miami would tell you how disappointed hes been in his rebounding and how often hes fell short of meeting his own expectations in certain areas. Talking about how he doesn't like to bang and how its never been his game, Bron had to take the beating for him.

Guess we will find out a lot this season won't we. Lebron has never played with a rebounder of Love's magnitude before... Let's see how this little experiment works out. Also, we will see just how good or bad Bosh really is. For the past few seasons, he has seen a significant drop off and of course the Lebron worshipers have blamed him and attributed no fault what so ever to their savior. Now, if Bosh has a good season after coming out with this criticism of Lebron which I myself have echoed for many years now, it would go more towards proving that Lebron does indeed cripple his teams overall effectiveness with his supreme emphasis on his own personal stats.

amos1er
10-17-2014, 02:02 AM
Proof? We all know how awful u r when it comes to quantifying rebounding prowess.

Really, can you actually prove my awfulness at quantifying rebounding prowess, or is that just personal opinion as well. I got Bosh agreeing with me now, who you got...

FlashBolt
10-17-2014, 11:47 AM
You make some great points in your posts, however I would point out that what matters most is overall production. Bosh is more of a slender and athletic type of player, a guy you could almost envision as an SF/SG/PF hybrid or something, so we shouldn't just downgrade him for the fact that he's not a Tyson Chandler or a Lamarcus Aldrige/Marc Gasol type. Those guys are all way heavier and thicker than him.

But on the flipside, Bosh is faster and more athletic, especially in transition, and his mid-range game can be lethal if things are set up for him correctly. Think Bosh getting open off of screens or creating his own shot in one on one coverage, elevating over defenders and popping 12 footers. Also think about him playing hybrid perimeter defense like Anthony Davis, hawking the passing lanes and swooping in for blocks in help situations.

Miami will likely look a lot different as a Bosh oriented team this season and I don't think they will be terrible.

There were more than enough games where Bosh could have done more and he simply didn't. I don't have to go through the epidemic in which he was destroyed by the Pacers/Spurs/even Bobcats (Al Jeff). He's simply not good enough to contain them. Miami needed someone who could damage the frontcourt and Bosh never provided that. I understand that he's not built for it but he himself has publicly stated that he doesn't like playing close to the rim. Well, when your team needs it, you have to. He's not a top 5 PF in my book and he certainly underachieved with Miami. His defense in pick-n-roll situations is great because of his length and the fact that he is more mobile than most PF's, but if you're going to get pounded on by Hibbert, West, Jefferson, and Duncan day in and day out, there's a problem.

Chronz
10-17-2014, 12:16 PM
Guess we will find out a lot this season won't we.
Find out what? We've already seen him on a wide variety of teams already.


Lebron has never played with a rebounder of Love's magnitude before... Let's see how this little experiment works out.
Hes played on elite rebounding teams and we've seen the numbers hes posted for them. Not sure why you think focusing on the individual instead of the ENTIRE TEAM is somehow more telling.


Also, we will see just how good or bad Bosh really is.
LOL.... why are you acting like we havent been watching these guys for years?



For the past few seasons, he has seen a significant drop off and of course the Lebron worshipers have blamed him and attributed no fault what so ever to their savior.
Dont really know who you are referring to but a statistical dropoff was expected from EVERYONE and their moms. Just like an increased in offensive/defensive efficiency was expected. Particularly when you have overlapping skillsets the way Bron AND Wade have, you just knew Bosh would be the 3rd banana. You seem to think this exonerates any and all type of performances, sorry bud, gonna have to disagree with you on that one.

Also, are you asking me to ignore the rebounding Bosh has posted throughout his career? Not sure what you mean by "guess we'll see". We've already seen, we've been watching Bosh for almost a decade now. His rebounding was pitiful in Miami and it was pitiful in Toronto, yes the averages fluctuated but the context behind those numbers was always in the negative for Bosh. Playing alongside the likes of Bargs/Bums and providing very little in the way of help defense meant Bosh was always in position for misses, rarely in position to force them himself.

That last part of the equation changed for Bosh, he was very active in Miami, thats not a result of just Bron, thats a result of the entire defensive scheme the team had to play. It led to a championship caliber defense and improvement from him defensively. If that suffers and the team is worse off defensively, are you really going to laud his "rebounding improvement"? Plz tell me you've come at least alil bit in the stats department.



Now, if Bosh has a good season after coming out with this criticism of Lebron which I myself have echoed for many years now, it would go more towards proving that Lebron does indeed cripple his teams overall effectiveness with his supreme emphasis on his own personal stats.
Based on what? Individual sacrifices have come from a wide variety of individuals for many teams over the years, all for the sake of winning. For your theory to have any merit, not only must Bosh overachieve but the Heat must collectively improve as a team without Bron. Which if your theory is correct, shouldn't be hard considering they actually improved the teams talent in the before/after context.



Really, can you actually prove my awfulness at quantifying rebounding prowess, or is that just personal opinion as well. I got Bosh agreeing with me now, who you got...

I can try, just take me down your thought process on ur prior projections for Brons rebounding. (http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?839204-How-many-rings-would-LeBron-have-if-he-played-on-the-lakers-in-place-of-Kobe&p=27137417#post27137417)




He would be more of a 24, 5, 5 guy. Less rebounds because of Shaq and wouldn't have the usage or system to get as many assists.
Notice the emphasis on the individual instead of the team (again)... We've already seen the Lakers (With Shaq) put up inferior rebounding numbers than some of Brons former teams, this with Bron never posting such low numbers. I just dont know why you think we cant apply context when reviewing REB numbers.

And Bosh agreed with me as well, he knows how poorly hes rebounded.

bucketss
10-17-2014, 12:27 PM
bosh will put up better #'s this year as a first option, amos1er i hope you don't act like some prophet when he does because we all know #'s will increase, while his shooting % will decrease.

IKnowHoops
10-17-2014, 01:32 PM
Guess we will find out a lot this season won't we. Lebron has never played with a rebounder of Love's magnitude before... Let's see how this little experiment works out. Also, we will see just how good or bad Bosh really is. For the past few seasons, he has seen a significant drop off and of course the Lebron worshipers have blamed him and attributed no fault what so ever to their savior. Now, if Bosh has a good season after coming out with this criticism of Lebron which I myself have echoed for many years now, it would go more towards proving that Lebron does indeed cripple his teams overall effectiveness with his supreme emphasis on his own personal stats.

If Bosh comes out and averages 23 and 11 with just as good efficiency or better than what he had with Bron then I'd say Bron hurt his game, but if his stats stay the same, or if he is a lil more productive on much worse efficiency then its time for you to admit, Bosh is and was not what you thought and that Bron carried him.

amos1er
10-17-2014, 06:24 PM
If Bosh comes out and averages 23 and 11 with just as good efficiency or better than what he had with Bron then I'd say Bron hurt his game, but if his stats stay the same, or if he is a lil more productive on much worse efficiency then its time for you to admit, Bosh is and was not what you thought and that Bron carried him.

The scenario your speaking of is not very likely, but I am a man of my word and I will admit as such if that happens, likewise I would expect for you to do the same. I just can't see Bosh averaging less than 10 rebounds per game without Lebron there to syphon his stats baring any sort of serious injury of course.

prodigy
10-17-2014, 06:59 PM
Bosh was the only option with the raptors so of course his numbers would be going down joining wade and Bron.

Bosh is what I call an ehh player. Meaning he's good but not a difference maker. He quit on the raptors and just doesn't win games.

Yes he made a couple big plays 2 years ago but those were also uncontested plays.

amos1er
10-17-2014, 07:32 PM
Find out what? We've already seen him on a wide variety of teams already.

Exactly... It will just strengthen mine and Bosh's stance when it happens again this season. Then hopefully Lebron worshipers finally admit that he isn't the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to making his teammates better. Though I'm sure they will still come up with some sort of denial[/QUOTE]


Hes played on elite rebounding teams and we've seen the numbers hes posted for them. Not sure why you think focusing on the individual instead of the ENTIRE TEAM is somehow more telling.

His Cleveland teams were good in rebounding in 09 and 10, but his individual rebounding stats were not his best those years either. Likewise, he never played with a dominant rebounder like Kobe with Shaq or Kobe with Pau and Odom or Jordan with Rodman. Therefore before we go comparing him to those two and other such poppycock, lets just see what playing with a guy like Love does to his numbers before people go rubbing Lebron's rebounding totals in our faces as if he is the driving force for his teams in terms of rebounds.

Also, Lebron was hardly the top rebounder on his team in Cleveland when they were towards the top of the league. He was only third best in 2010 and played far more minutes than the two guys who were above him. Not to mention Shaq was nearly tied with him playing about half of his minutes. This just proves my point even further... If Lebron let the guys who were good at rebounding to their job, his Miami teams would have done better in the regular season like his Cleveland teams did. Of course he didn't have guys like Wade, Bosh, and Allen to make all the big plays for him in the fourth quarter of the playoffs... Hence why his Cleveland teams could never make it over the hump.

So yes, his team rebounding was good on Cleveland, but he never played along side dominant rebounders, the ones he did play with did see a fall in their individual rebounding stats similar to Bosh, and he never led the team or was the driving force behind it like his fans love to pretend like he was in Miami


LOL.... why are you acting like we havent been watching these guys for years?

I'm not, it's just that you all made it seem as if I was some like of outlier for bringing this critique to attention in the past, now that Bosh (his former All-Star teammate) is echoing the same sentiments, it appears I am not the lone quack you all made me out to be. Now that Bosh is saying the very same thing I have said, it appears my theory is more credible and when Bosh goes back to his usual numbers of 9-10 boards per game this season, it will be even more apparent that it was indeed Lebron holding him back and not Bosh being the "sissy" Leborn's worshipers claimed him to be.



Dont really know who you are referring to but a statistical dropoff was expected from EVERYONE and their moms. Just like an increased in offensive/defensive efficiency was expected. Particularly when you have overlapping skillsets the way Bron AND Wade have, you just knew Bosh would be the 3rd banana. You seem to think this exonerates any and all type of performances, sorry bud, gonna have to disagree with you on that one.

Yes, a 3rd banana is expected to see a drop off in scoring for sure... but rebounding :eyebrow:... Come on... Rodman and Odom were both 3rd bananas, but their rebounding was never hindered upon by Kobe or Michael. Kobe and Michael were the best scorers on their respective teams for sure, but they never were a hinderance from letting their teammates do what they were best at. They let the bigs rebound and the guards assist. Hence the reason I believe Miami underachieved as much as they did. Lebron just tried to do too much from an individual statistical standpoint and that made the team suffer when they faced the elite teams of the west. He turned Bosh into a spot up shooter and Wade a decoy. Wade only flourished when Lebron was on the bench acting as mostly his "basketball stand-in". Hence game four of last years finals when Wade basically won them the game and Lebron took all the credit by stat padding against San Antonio's third stringers when the game was out of reach.


Also, are you asking me to ignore the rebounding Bosh has posted throughout his career? Not sure what you mean by "guess we'll see". We've already seen, we've been watching Bosh for almost a decade now. His rebounding was pitiful in Miami and it was pitiful in Toronto, yes the averages fluctuated but the context behind those numbers was always in the negative for Bosh. Playing alongside the likes of Bargs/Bums and providing very little in the way of help defense meant Bosh was always in position for misses, rarely in position to force them himself.

Yes, we have seen Bosh's numbers in terms of rebounding and scoring take a big his since teaming up with Lebron. Miami was last in the NBA in rebounding with Lebron leading the team and Toronto was at least middle of the pack with Bosh leading the team. Hence the team was better off with Bosh being the primary rebounder.


That last part of the equation changed for Bosh, he was very active in Miami, thats not a result of just Bron, thats a result of the entire defensive scheme the team had to play. It led to a championship caliber defense and improvement from him defensively. If that suffers and the team is worse off defensively, are you really going to laud his "rebounding improvement"? Plz tell me you've come at least alil bit in the stats department.

Not sure what this statement even proves. All you have managed to do was toss in a red herring concerning Miami's team defense, and insult me personally while making little to no point in terms of proving that Lebron's presence on the team was a benefit to Bosh and not a hindrance.


Based on what? Individual sacrifices have come from a wide variety of individuals for many teams over the years, all for the sake of winning. For your theory to have any merit, not only must Bosh overachieve but the Heat must collectively improve as a team without Bron. Which if your theory is correct, shouldn't be hard considering they actually improved the teams talent in the before/after context.

Now you are completely contradicting yourself... Before it was about the team defense and less misses and now it's about sacrifice. LMAO!!! Which is it... Can you please explain to me how Bosh sacrificing his rebounding totals helps the team. I would love to hear that one.


I can try, just take me down your thought process on ur prior projections for Brons rebounding. (http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?839204-How-many-rings-would-LeBron-have-if-he-played-on-the-lakers-in-place-of-Kobe&p=27137417#post27137417)

I don't see what pulling up a thread that is a year old and about a completely different topic that is out of context all together proves. If you are attempting to take a shot at my consistency, then what about that old thread specifically are you taking issue with... There were a lot of posts by me on that page and I don't feel like going through and guessing as to what in the world you could possibly be referring to.


Notice the emphasis on the individual instead of the team (again)... We've already seen the Lakers (With Shaq) put up inferior rebounding numbers than some of Brons former teams, this with Bron never posting such low numbers. I just dont know why you think we cant apply context when reviewing REB numbers.

Please don't tell me you are comparing the rebounding numbers of championship Lakers teams playing in a dominant western conference to Leborn's Cleveland teams that came up short time after time in a weak eastern conference.


And Bosh agreed with me as well, he knows how poorly hes rebounded.

LMAO!!! Talk about seeing what you want to see. I really don't know how you can possibly be interpreting what Bosh said into a criticism on his own rebounding. He was clearly warning Love of the stat vacuum that Lebron is.

amos1er
10-17-2014, 07:34 PM
Bosh was the only option with the raptors so of course his numbers would be going down joining wade and Bron.

Bosh is what I call an ehh player. Meaning he's good but not a difference maker. He quit on the raptors and just doesn't win games.

Yes he made a couple big plays 2 years ago but those were also uncontested plays.

Lol... That statement alone just shows how truly unequipped you are to be having this debate.

slashsnake
10-18-2014, 04:59 AM
Lol... That statement alone just shows how truly unequipped you are to be having this debate.

Who? Bargnani? Turkoglu? Parker? Calderon?

That offense was in such a need of another option Mike James was a 20 point a game guy there.

No offense but I think there is a point there, that your rebounds and points might fall off when you go from Bargnani as your top scoring and rebounding teammate in back to back seasons to someone like Lebron.

What will be interesting to see is if he is actually better. Or if he just grabs more rebounds. Will he win more, hit a higher shooting percentage, play more efficiently, or will that all just go out the window and he will look like old volume stats Bosh.

amos1er
10-18-2014, 05:28 AM
Who? Bargnani? Turkoglu? Parker? Calderon?

That offense was in such a need of another option Mike James was a 20 point a game guy there.

No offense but I think there is a point there, that your rebounds and points might fall off when you go from Bargnani as your top scoring and rebounding teammate in back to back seasons to someone like Lebron.

What will be interesting to see is if he is actually better. Or if he just grabs more rebounds. Will he win more, hit a higher shooting percentage, play more efficiently, or will that all just go out the window and he will look like old volume stats Bosh.

That team was also a middle of the pack rebounding team. Much better than any of Lebron's Miami teams where he was the lead rebounder and they were bottom of the league. You didn't mention Marion or O'Neal either. The only year Miami was respectable in rebounding was in 2011 where they were ninth... Guess who led the team that year... Not Lebron... Yes, it was Bosh. :)

bucketss
10-18-2014, 11:16 AM
Lol... That statement alone just shows how truly unequipped you are to be having this debate.

im a raptors fan and he's right, bosh was a stat padding ball hog in Toronto. he knew he could put up big numbers in Toronto because there wasn't a lot of guys who can create for themselves so he pretended he would consider resigning untill the trade deadline passed. than he quit on the team in the second half of the season.

Chronz
10-20-2014, 01:33 AM
Exactly... It will just strengthen mine and Bosh's stance when it happens again this season. Then hopefully Lebron worshipers finally admit that he isn't the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to making his teammates better. Though I'm sure they will still come up with some sort of denial
So which is it, are we going to find a revelation or not? And again, I really dont care about arguments you have with other people, I've seen your rudimentary takes on that sort of analysis.



His Cleveland teams were good in rebounding in 09 and 10, but his individual rebounding stats were not his best those years either.
Shocking **** sir, not sure you know how rebounding works but there tends to be diminishing returns based on the quality of the players around him, thus we have found a cap with Bron on an elite rebounding team, as a wing player no less. As a small ball 4, Bron experiences some gains and the team suffers on that end. What exactly is your point here?

And good is a vague understatement, they were elite on the defensive glass throughout most of his tenure, to be more precise, they were the 2nd best defensive rebounding team in 2010, 9th best the regular season prior, 2nd best before that, 4th best and so on and so forth. Basically, we've already seen Bron DESTROY the projections you laid out for him in that silly projection of yours.



Likewise, he never played with a dominant rebounder like Kobe with Shaq or Kobe with Pau and Odom or Jordan with Rodman. Therefore before we go comparing him to those two and other such poppycock, lets just see what playing with a guy like Love does to his numbers before people go rubbing Lebron's rebounding totals in our faces as if he is the driving force for his teams in terms of rebounds.
There you go again ignoring all of Brons career as if we havent been watching the guy for years now. We've already seen Bron on better rebounding teams whilst posting better rebounding tallies than the likes of Kobe. When the team and individual stats align, that tends to present a better argument than one lacking in either department. You need to unearth some truly epic statistical certainties in order for me ignore that kind of evidence.



Also, Lebron was hardly the top rebounder on his team in Cleveland when they were towards the top of the league. He was only third best in 2010 and played far more minutes than the two guys who were above him. Not to mention Shaq was nearly tied with him playing about half of his minutes. This just proves my point even further...
Umm what point is it that you think you are proving with these strawman arguments? I mean really, your best complaint is hes not the top rebounder when its a distinction that neither of your other comparisons could claim. Nobody ever said he was the best rebounder on his team, just that we already know the quality of his rebounding, having seen him in various environments. I hate to break it to you but his rebounding (much like his defense) has declined the last few years.


If Lebron let the guys who were good at rebounding to their job, his Miami teams would have done better in the regular season like his Cleveland teams did. Of course he didn't have guys like Wade, Bosh, and Allen to make all the big plays for him in the fourth quarter of the playoffs... Hence why his Cleveland teams could never make it over the hump.
Thats a desperate reach if I've ever seen one. Sure Bosh could have provided zilch in the form of PnR hedging and weakside help, all to pad his own rebounding numbers ala Toronto, but the team would have suffered as a result. So why would you prioritize rebounding above defensive efficiency overall? Spo knows the stats so Im sure he designed his defensive system with his talent in mind, not gonna take ur opinion on what constitutes each of their jobs over what we saw employed.


So yes, his team rebounding was good on Cleveland, but he never played along side dominant rebounders, the ones he did play with did see a fall in their individual rebounding stats similar to Bosh, and he never led the team or was the driving force behind it like his fans love to pretend like he was in Miami

Outside Olympic play, Bosh never approached this sort of 2-way efficiency like he has alongside Bron. He focused more on defense in part due to the lightened offensive load. Look, I get that you want to trash Bron but focusing on Bosh's play on the glass is the wrong place to start. Hes improved as a defender as a result of this philosophical change. Its similar to what Blake Griffin went through for us here in LA, his rookie year he was all about getting rebounds, now hes more attentive and providing help. It leads to lesser rebounds individually because hes out of position more often, but the team is better defensively as a result. Defensive efficiency is more important than rebounding because it encompasses more factors of defense. You can be the best rebounding team in the league and be in last place, but if your the best defensive team in the league, you're already half way to contention . So yes, lets champion the defenseless Bosh in Toronto over the Bron influenced one.



I'm not, it's just that you all made it seem as if I was some like of outlier for bringing this critique to attention in the past, now that Bosh (his former All-Star teammate) is echoing the same sentiments, it appears I am not the lone quack you all made me out to be. Now that Bosh is saying the very same thing I have said, it appears my theory is more credible and when Bosh goes back to his usual numbers of 9-10 boards per game this season, it will be even more apparent that it was indeed Lebron holding him back and not Bosh being the "sissy" Leborn's worshipers claimed him to be.

Again, I dont care what others have said, in OUR argument, you are indeed the lone quack and the absolute last person I would turn to for any sort of statistical insight. Bosh has agreed with me as well, not seeing where he agreed with any thing we are discussing.




Yes, a 3rd banana is expected to see a drop off in scoring for sure... but rebounding :eyebrow:... Come on... Rodman and Odom were both 3rd bananas, but their rebounding was never hindered upon by Kobe or Michael. Kobe and Michael were the best scorers on their respective teams for sure, but they never were a hinderance from letting their teammates do what they were best at. They let the bigs rebound and the guards assist.
No disrespect but your confusion stems from your inexperience with the stats you cite and your obsession with focusing on 1 teammate as opposed to the collective influence of all 4 teammates on the court. And can you define hindered here, because I see no hindrance. Lets use your own comparison against you to show why. Rodman posted his best rebound rates in San Antonio, they werent his DPOY days like Detroit but he definitely posted the highest rebounding%. These were the days when Rodman chased rebounds selfishly (stealing them from teammates) and didnt buy into a team concept (famously refused to defend Horry in the series vs Houston). Anyways, by the time Pop got sick of him and he got to Chicago, Rodman was posting lower rebounding numbers in Chicago than he had in both Detroit and San Antonio, how come you're not blaming MJ on that one? Explain that one before I you ask me to read more bricks of text.



Hence the reason I believe Miami underachieved as much as they did. Lebron just tried to do too much from an individual statistical standpoint and that made the team suffer when they faced the elite teams of the west. He turned Bosh into a spot up shooter and Wade a decoy. Wade only flourished when Lebron was on the bench acting as mostly his "basketball stand-in". Hence game four of last years finals when Wade basically won them the game and Lebron took all the credit by stat padding against San Antonio's third stringers when the game was out of reach.
For that to be true, Miami better play tremendously this year. Bosh himself admitted not wanting to bang so if hes just going to isolate, you're simply wasting possessions by not having Wade and Bron handle the ball. Im not seeing the point of isolating sections of play either, Im sure there were games when Kobe/MJ's cast played well with them on the bench as well. Just like we can point to Indiana suffocating Wade when Bron sat on the bench, allowing Vogel to sick PG on him. Looking at the entire season, Wade was more productive without Bron (obviously) but he was also more efficient and the team was MUCH better. Lineups without Bron over 4 years have generally performed at a .500 level with Wade on the court, and thats with them facing alot of secondary lineups.
More importantly, Wade and Bosh will both stunt each others numbers, they did so last season as well, thats the accepted sacrifice that comes with winning.



Yes, we have seen Bosh's numbers in terms of rebounding and scoring take a big his since teaming up with Lebron. Miami was last in the NBA in rebounding with Lebron leading the team and Toronto was at least middle of the pack with Bosh leading the team. Hence the team was better off with Bosh being the primary rebounder.
Can you be more specific? Offensive and defensive rebounding should always be gauged separately, to better assess the variables/context behind the numbers. For example, lets grant you the absolutely extreme benefit of focusing on Bosh's sole peak season, his final with Toronto. The reason its extreme is because Bosh himself has admitted to changing his body as a result of not wanting to play that style anymore. He purposely sat out games despite being in the middle of a playoff hunt in order to preserve his body. Fair to say, expecting THAT Bosh to ever show up in Miami is IMPOSSIBLE. For simplicity tho, that was the year Bosh posted his best individual numbers, it came alongside inept rebounders/defenders and Bosh himself was not the defender he got to be in Miami. If you take that tradeoff, then you would truly be hampering the team.




Not sure what this statement even proves. All you have managed to do was toss in a red herring concerning Miami's team defense, and insult me personally while making little to no point in terms of proving that Lebron's presence on the team was a benefit to Bosh and not a hindrance.
Hate to break the news for you but rebounding is based on spatial positioning. Players who rarely leave their man will boast better rebounding numbers individually than they would if they provide constant help. History is littered with examples of this phenomena. There is no red herring, you have to understand how foolish focusing on a singular player and ignoring the plethora of variables mentioned above. Its a benefit to Bosh to be an inferior rebounder if it leads to improved team defensive efficiency. You can credit/discredit Bron however you want, just so long as you understand the statistics you spew.



Now you are completely contradicting yourself... Before it was about the team defense and less misses and now it's about sacrifice. LMAO!!! Which is it... Can you please explain to me how Bosh sacrificing his rebounding totals helps the team. I would love to hear that one.
Less misses? Rebounding is gauged by considering the amount of available rebounds so the misses dont factor into my argument one iota. I believe I've clarified my stance but to sum it up in laymen. Because its good for the team defense for him to be more active with his help than he was in Toronto.



I don't see what pulling up a thread that is a year old and about a completely different topic that is out of context all together proves. If you are attempting to take a shot at my consistency, then what about that old thread specifically are you taking issue with... There were a lot of posts by me on that page and I don't feel like going through and guessing as to what in the world you could possibly be referring to.
I quoted exactly what I was referring to, since you missed it, here it is again:
He would be more of a 24, 5, 5 guy. Less rebounds because of Shaq and wouldn't have the usage or system to get as many assists.



Please don't tell me you are comparing the rebounding numbers of championship Lakers teams playing in a dominant western conference to Leborn's Cleveland teams that came up short time after time in a weak eastern conference.
Plz dont tell me you think that passes for an argument, rebounding isn't the sole barometer of success, I know you love to bring it up but its not all about the ringzzz. Notice the 3peeet? Anyways, even if we pretend you had a point, the Lakers didn't always win the title, we saw various forms of Laker rebounding teams over the years.



LMAO!!! Talk about seeing what you want to see. I really don't know how you can possibly be interpreting what Bosh said into a criticism on his own rebounding. He was clearly warning Love of the stat vacuum that Lebron is.
LOL how ironic. Where in ANY of my posts did I say that Bosh brought up his lack of rebounding over the years in that article? Its understandable if you've been unable to keep up with everything Bosh has said and done over the last 4 years.

Chronz
10-20-2014, 01:47 AM
im a raptors fan and he's right, bosh was a stat padding ball hog in Toronto. he knew he could put up big numbers in Toronto because there wasn't a lot of guys who can create for themselves so he pretended he would consider resigning untill the trade deadline passed. than he quit on the team in the second half of the season.

In his world, only Bron can do wrong. The man you are talking to was the same guy who was applauding Kobe during his 35PPG campaign, ignoring the fact that he led the league in garbage time buckets (yes, the very same kind he points to Bron attaining in the Finals), so flip flopping hypocrisy is to be expected constantly from him.

Chronz
10-20-2014, 01:49 AM
He's already starting to play in the post more often and with the three point shooting pretty much declining, he's going to have to stay closer to the basket. Most of his shots came from the post on Saturday.

Playing in the post and banging are two different things to me. Bosh in Toronto was taking alot more punishment his final year, hes not going to be that guy ever again. The Bosh years before that are what Im expecting only with alot more mid range attempts because hes making room for Wade.

slashsnake
10-20-2014, 03:38 AM
That team was also a middle of the pack rebounding team. Much better than any of Lebron's Miami teams where he was the lead rebounder and they were bottom of the league. You didn't mention Marion or O'Neal either. The only year Miami was respectable in rebounding was in 2011 where they were ninth... Guess who led the team that year... Not Lebron... Yes, it was Bosh. :)

Seriously... Bargnani might be the worst rebounding center ever.. And that's your response? That Bosh really fell off the past few years? OK.. I am buying that one.

I didn't mention Marion and O'neal because those two combined for not even a season with Bosh.

Points scored while Bosh was in Toronto

O'neal ranks 29th (28 other teammates scored more)
Marion ranks 33rd (32 other teammates scored more)

Rebounds

Oneal 22nd
Marion 25th


I didn't mention Rafael Araujo even though he grabbed more boards from O'neal than those two did. Charlie Villanueva only played there his rookie year, started 36 games and had more boards for Toronto than O'Neal and Marion COMBINED.

I am sorry but I'm not going to mention that one year 170 lb PG Rafer Alston was there snagging boards. He did grab more than either of those two ever did next to Bosh though.

Do you see how far you are digging at the bottom of the barrel to try and come up with a point there? When you have to say "wait... In that 9 year span we had a forward play 27 games and grab 8 boards a game... IT WAS TOUGH!

Bargnani and Morris Peterson were the two top guys that were fighting Bosh for the most rebounds and points while he was in Toronto. Wade and Lebron were the two he was fighting for the most in Miami. If you can't see that difference, I can't help you.


If you want the breakdown that Bosh was down in his rebounding when he played with O'neal vs. when he had Bargnani... fine, he was dropped a full board a game with him vs. the rest of the year. Whatever you want to do with that point, have at it.