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Mile High Champ
10-09-2014, 09:40 AM
Hey guys, It is that time of year again! Once again we kick of the PSD NBA Off-Season Player Rankings. This is the 7th year I have done this on PSD and it typically always makes for good deabte and often initates terrific discussion. Consider that when these polls first began, the likes of Baron Davis and Devin Harris were cracking these polls. Which player will you rank high this year that may get some raised eyebrows as the years pass by? Only time will tell. Please keep things civil and discuss who you feel is most fitting and deserving of being voted in each poll.

A lot has changed since last season. Tim Duncan and the San Antonio Spurs are NBA champions for the 5th time after getting some revenge for their finals loss last season to the Heat. We could be looking at the end of the big 3 era.

Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 6 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

For a player to be eligible for this years poll, they must of played in a minimum of 10 games.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best. Though we do recognize that some voters will vote based solely on potential and others by last years numbers.

2014 Off-Season PSD PF Rankings
1) Blake Griffin
2)
3)
4)
5)



2013 Off-Season PSD PF Rankings

1) Kevin Love
2) Blake Griffin
3) Dirk Nowitzki
4) LaMarcus Aldridge
5) Kevin Garnett
6) David Lee
7) Zach Randolph
8) Pau Gasol
9) David West
10) Serge Ibaka

2012 Off-Season PSD PF Rankings

1) Kevin Love
2) Dirk Nowitzki
3) LaMarcus Aldridge
4) Chris Bosh
5) Pau Gasol
6) Blake Griffin
7) Josh Smith
8) Zach Randolph
9) Amare Stoudemire
10) Paul Millsap

2011 Off-Season PF Rankings

1) Dirk Nowitzki
2) Amare Stoudemire
3) Pau Gasol
4) Zach Randolph
5) Chris Bosh
6) LaMarcus Aldridge
7) Kevin Love
8) Blake Griffin
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Josh Smith

2010 Off-Season PF Rankings

1) Pau Gasol
2) Dirk Nowitzki
3) Tim Duncan
4) Chris Bosh
5) Amare Stoudemire
6) Carlos Boozer
7) Kevin Garnett
8) Josh Smith
9) David Lee
10) Zach Randolph

2009 Off-Season PF Rankings

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Dirk Nowitzki
4) Chris Bosh
5) Amare Stoudemire
6) Pau Gasol
7) Carlos Boozer
8) Antawn Jamison
9) Rashard Lewis
10) David West

2008 Off-Season PF rankings

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Amare Stoudemire
4) Chris Bosh
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Elton Brand
7) Carlos Boozer
8) Pau Gasol
9) Antawn Jamison
10) David West

Goose17
10-09-2014, 09:48 AM
Davis. Same reason as before.

SoCal Bob
10-09-2014, 10:48 AM
Davis. Same reason as before.

People on here sh*tted on Love for years because he hadn't taken his team to the playoffs but now people are ready to anoint Davis as the best with an inferior body of work? :confused:

Mile High Champ
10-09-2014, 10:55 AM
Love or LA here for me. I am a big Davis fan but he needs to sustain his play for more than one season. Yes he is young and needs more of an opportunity but I need more before I call him top 3 at his position.

Goose17
10-09-2014, 11:25 AM
People on here sh*tted on Love for years because he hadn't taken his team to the playoffs but now people are ready to anoint Davis as the best with an inferior body of work? :confused:

I was never one of the people that sh*tted on Love. There's no double standard here.

Davis should have been #1 overall. Just my opinion.

chi-townlove1
10-09-2014, 12:27 PM
Ok so multiple questions I have

1) Duncan was on the list for years and now he's not an option? Either he should have always been a center (which him and Pop claim he is) or he should still option for power forward.

2) why oh why is blake griffin the best. Just why. My goodness..

3) Anthony Davis should be 1, and if he's not then he should MOST DEFINITELY BE 2.

xbrackattackx
10-09-2014, 02:00 PM
Top five should be

Griffin
Love
Dirk
Gasol
Lee ....


Jk


Going for Love here cause as good as Davis defense is Loves rebounding and offense may be a little bit better.

tredigs
10-09-2014, 02:20 PM
Let's remember that Anthony Davis anchors one of the worst defensive teams in the league before we go off anointing him Ben Wallace on that end. There aren't many indicators that his elite defensive ability has translated to much overall success on that end. Defensive bbiq > ability+blocked shots.

Oefarmy2005
10-09-2014, 02:23 PM
These rankings are already garbage but i'll play along. Love > Griffout.

Ebbs
10-09-2014, 03:09 PM
I'd have it:

Anthony Davis
Blake Griffin
Kevin Love
Dirk Nowitzki
LaMarcus Aldridge

mightybosstone
10-09-2014, 04:48 PM
I'm going Love here. I gave Griffin the edge over him because he had the better season for the better team last year, but I still think Love is the better player. I want to see Davis become a more dominant offensive player before I'm willing to call him a better player than those two guys.

FraziersKnicks
10-09-2014, 06:47 PM
Love should've gone ahead of Griffin, so I got Love here.

bucketss
10-10-2014, 02:24 PM
suprised love didn't go #1, is it because he plays with you know who now.lol

Bruno
10-10-2014, 03:43 PM
Davis, the best two way player at his position. should have gone in front of blake.

polls already closed, but that would be my vote.

tredigs
10-10-2014, 04:13 PM
Again, despite being an active defender who can get a high amount of blocks and steals, what exactly are we looking at when we say Anthony Davis is such an elite defender? I have not seen his ability translate to success on that end. His D rating is not elite, his synergy stats were not elite, his DRPM is not elite (in fact it was flat bad), his Opponents PER was not low, opponents did not shoot a low % against him at the rim, etc etc. So why is he anointed top defender status?

I'd be curious if anyone could answer that.

FraziersKnicks
10-10-2014, 04:50 PM
Again, despite being an active defender who can get a high amount of blocks and steals, what exactly are we looking at when we say Anthony Davis is such an elite defender? I have not seen his ability translate to success on that end. His D rating is not elite, his synergy stats were not elite, his DRPM is not elite (in fact it was flat bad), his Opponents PER was not low, opponents did not shoot a low % against him at the rim, etc etc. So why is he anointed top defender status?

I'd be curious if anyone could answer that.

Blockz and stealzzzz

Bruno
10-10-2014, 06:45 PM
Again, despite being an active defender who can get a high amount of blocks and steals, what exactly are we looking at when we say Anthony Davis is such an elite defender? I have not seen his ability translate to success on that end. His D rating is not elite, his synergy stats were not elite, his DRPM is not elite (in fact it was flat bad), his Opponents PER was not low, opponents did not shoot a low % against him at the rim, etc etc. So why is he anointed top defender status?

I'd be curious if anyone could answer that.

because he's losing to Kevin Love, a guy who has never played defense.

and he's not getting top defender status, people are just acknowledging that he's the best defender compared to players like LMA, Dirk, Blake and especially Love. compared to his competitors here it's no contest. we don't have to dig to deep into the numbers here.

tredigs
10-10-2014, 07:30 PM
because he's losing to Kevin Love, a guy who has never played defense.

and he's not getting top defender status, people are just acknowledging that he's the best defender compared to players like LMA, Dirk, Blake and especially Love. compared to his competitors here it's no contest. we don't have to dig to deep into the numbers here.
But Love is clearly more productive offensively, and that can be substantiated. Beats him out in PPG+TS%, Assists, WS, PER, WAR, ORPM, WinsProduced, etc.

And actually I think it's become standard/accepted now that Anthony Davis is a top defensive big -- despite no #'s or game impact backing that up.

He's clearly a great player and I'm on his wagon -- just not the same one some others are.

ChiSox219
10-12-2014, 01:41 PM
Again, despite being an active defender who can get a high amount of blocks and steals, what exactly are we looking at when we say Anthony Davis is such an elite defender? I have not seen his ability translate to success on that end. His D rating is not elite, his synergy stats were not elite, his DRPM is not elite (in fact it was flat bad), his Opponents PER was not low, opponents did not shoot a low % against him at the rim, etc etc. So why is he anointed top defender status?

I'd be curious if anyone could answer that.

The Pelicans had to start several d-league caliber players this past season I wouldnt look much into Davis' defensive metrics because that roster was a mess.

Davis is definitely a good defender but being so young he's still not perfect.

Davis probably should be #1 but PSD has a well documented age bias plus many people didnt see a single pelicans game last year

FlashBolt
10-12-2014, 02:06 PM
I agree with Tredigs. Anthony Davis is getting overrated here. It's still relatively early but I don't think he's top 5 right now and he's certainly not the best PF... Maybe in two years but his game has lots of holes. Offensively, he's not great. He's good but really, he has a lot to work on. I personally think Love should have gone first and Blake second. Doesn't matter, though. Both of them were spectacular last year. I think I have AD 3rd, Dirk 4th, and LA 5th.

Goose17
10-12-2014, 03:08 PM
But Love is clearly more productive offensively, and that can be substantiated. Beats him out in PPG+TS%, Assists, WS, PER, WAR, ORPM, WinsProduced, etc.


And Davis is clearly more productive defensively. Love is an AWFUL defender, not due to a lack of size or skill but due to a lack of attention, effort and I.Q

The gap between them defensively is just as big as the gap between them offensively, IMO

And I'll take the guy that plays both sides over the guy that plays one.

tredigs
10-12-2014, 03:36 PM
And Davis is clearly more productive defensively. Love is an AWFUL defender, not due to a lack of size or skill but due to a lack of attention, effort and I.Q

The gap between them defensively is just as big as the gap between them offensively, IMO

And I'll take the guy that plays both sides over the guy that plays one.

Interestingly, Anthony Davis doesn't rate higher than Love in any defensive metric I can find. Not saying Love is a better defender, but it further goes to show that perception /= reality when it comes to AD at this point. Love is not that bad defensively; Pek is a pretty poor anchor and they still boasted the 12th best defensive rating in the NBA (despite the black hole that is Kevin Martin occupying the other starting forward spot). The Pelicans were a bottom 3 D. And Love is also the better defensive rebounder. At this point he's a better player than AD, period. Everything points to that.

Goose17
10-12-2014, 03:40 PM
At this point he's a better player than AD, period. Everything points to that.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Love is barely in my top 5. Sorry. Everything I see points to Davis being the better player.

Vinny642
10-12-2014, 03:52 PM
LMAO the PSD NBA forum at its finest smh

tredigs
10-12-2014, 03:52 PM
I wholeheartedly disagree. Love is barely in my top 5. Sorry. Everything I see points to Davis being the better player.

Lmao -- that is a joke. A guy who puts up 26/13/4.5 on a 59% TS who only follows LBJ and Durant in PER and WS48 "is barely in your top 5 PFs". Yikes. Their team Offense falls apart without him; in 2800 minutes with him on they had a 112 Orating (would tie for tops in the NBA), and in the 1200 minutes he was off the floor they had a 101 Orating (only the Sixers at 100 for the season is worse).

He's an absolute monster, and like I've shown, clearly outproduces Anthony Davis.

Goose17
10-12-2014, 04:34 PM
That's fine. I still disagree. He doesn't play both sides. And his offensive output won't be the same this year playing beside Lebron and Irving.

And he's barely in my top 5 because I still have Duncan, the greatest PF of all time over him. Plus Blake and Davis. He's 4th/5th for me.

You're not changing my mind on this. Sorry. It's just my opinion. You don't have to agree with it, we're allowed to disagree ;)

FlashBolt
10-12-2014, 06:40 PM
That's fine. I still disagree. He doesn't play both sides. And his offensive output won't be the same this year playing beside Lebron and Irving.

And he's barely in my top 5 because I still have Duncan, the greatest PF of all time over him. Plus Blake and Davis. He's 4th/5th for me.

You're not changing my mind on this. Sorry. It's just my opinion. You don't have to agree with it, we're allowed to disagree ;)

Lol.. that must mean you don't think Love is a top 10 player.. which is laughable. And you have Duncan over Love? +, you talk about defense so highly but Blake's defense isn't exactly amazing.. Good one. Outside of Dirk, Love is probably the best offensive PF. His offense is miles above Davis in terms of what he can do. I don't have an issue with Davis>Love but the fact that you hate him so much to leave him outside the top 5 PF? That just spews hate. There is no way you can logically exclude him from that. Also, by your logic, Harden isn't top 5 because his defense makes Love look like an all time defender.

THE MTL
10-12-2014, 08:50 PM
You gotts speed this threads up man. The season about to start. And u still gotta do 8 more PFs and the centers gotts go too.

I think once you get into the season ppl start voting based on this season's play which isnt right because this is based on last season

Goose17
10-13-2014, 02:54 AM
Lol.. that must mean you don't think Love is a top 10 player.. which is laughable. And you have Duncan over Love? +, you talk about defense so highly but Blake's defense isn't exactly amazing.. Good one. Outside of Dirk, Love is probably the best offensive PF. His offense is miles above Davis in terms of what he can do. I don't have an issue with Davis>Love but the fact that you hate him so much to leave him outside the top 5 PF? That just spews hate. There is no way you can logically exclude him from that. Also, by your logic, Harden isn't top 5 because his defense makes Love look like an all time defender.

I have no hate for him, I just don't think he's as good as the others I mentioned and his production is only going to go down now, not up.

FlashBolt
10-13-2014, 10:37 AM
I have no hate for him, I just don't think he's as good as the others I mentioned and his production is only going to go down now, not up.

But you have zero explanation as to why he's not top 5... You're just saying he's not. His production will go down but his FG% is most likely going to increase and so will his playoff appearances.

Goose17
10-13-2014, 01:36 PM
But you have zero explanation as to why he's not top 5... You're just saying he's not. His production will go down but his FG% is most likely going to increase and so will his playoff appearances.

Because Blake is better, Davis is better and Duncan is better. That's my explanation. He's not as good as those three. He's 4th or maybe 5th behind them. Simple.

sixers247
10-13-2014, 03:35 PM
Because Blake is better, Davis is better and Duncan is better. That's my explanation. He's not as good as those three. He's 4th or maybe 5th behind them. Simple.

Do you put Curry as like the 15th best pg then becuase he plays zero defense.

FlashBolt
10-13-2014, 05:36 PM
Because Blake is better, Davis is better and Duncan is better. That's my explanation. He's not as good as those three. He's 4th or maybe 5th behind them. Simple.

... You said he wasn't a top 5 PF and now you're saying he is? And just saying they are better isn't an explanation but an opinion. Just admit that you don't want to debate because KLove is statistically better than those three.

Goose17
10-13-2014, 06:14 PM
Do you put Curry as like the 15th best pg then becuase he plays zero defense.

Curry plays average defense, not zero defense.

And it wouldn't matter, his offensive ability eclipses any lack of defensive ability, much like Steve Nash did. And defense at the point in the modern game is much less valuable than defense in the paint.



... You said he wasn't a top 5 PF and now you're saying he is?

I never said he isn't top 5, your reading comprehension is terrible.


I wholeheartedly disagree. Love is barely in my top 5. Sorry. Everything I see points to Davis being the better player.

Barely. As in he is top 5, but only just.




And just saying they are better isn't an explanation but an opinion.

It's an explanation of my opinion.

We're listing who we think the top 5 is, none of this is fact it is ALL opinion, there's no right or wrong answer just what you as an individual believe based on the information you've gathered.



Just admit that you don't want to debate because KLove is statistically better than those three.

Offensively, last season, sure, Love is statistically superior. But stats don't measure footwork or post moves etc. There's more to consider than just raw numbers.

You said it yourself; "Outside of Dirk, Love is probably the best offensive PF." ...Loves offensive metrics are superior to Dirks, so were you wrong? Is he better than Dirk offensively as well now? Just based on the numbers? Let's scrap fundamental basketball and the finesse side of it, let's just do some math and base our entire opinion on that?

You need to take ALL the available information into account. And based on the available information, I have decided that Duncan, Davis and Blake are better than Love, that's my opinion, you don't have to like it and I don't have to justify myself to you, it is what it is, accept it and move on or sit here dwelling on it, I don't really care. I don't see this discussion moving on much, probably just going to go 'round in circles so... see you in the next debate or whatever.

Oefarmy2005
10-14-2014, 12:49 AM
Curry plays average defense, not zero defense.

And it wouldn't matter, his offensive ability eclipses any lack of defensive ability, much like Steve Nash did. And defense at the point in the modern game is much less valuable than defense in the paint.




I never said he isn't top 5, your reading comprehension is terrible.



Barely. As in he is top 5, but only just.





It's an explanation of my opinion.

We're listing who we think the top 5 is, none of this is fact it is ALL opinion, there's no right or wrong answer just what you as an individual believe based on the information you've gathered.




Offensively, last season, sure, Love is statistically superior. But stats don't measure footwork or post moves etc. There's more to consider than just raw numbers.

You said it yourself; "Outside of Dirk, Love is probably the best offensive PF." ...Loves offensive metrics are superior to Dirks, so were you wrong? Is he better than Dirk offensively as well now? Just based on the numbers? Let's scrap fundamental basketball and the finesse side of it, let's just do some math and base our entire opinion on that?

You need to take ALL the available information into account. And based on the available information, I have decided that Duncan, Davis and Blake are better than Love, that's my opinion, you don't have to like it and I don't have to justify myself to you, it is what it is, accept it and move on or sit here dwelling on it, I don't really care. I don't see this discussion moving on much, probably just going to go 'round in circles so... see you in the next debate or whatever.
I don't get you at all. So Curry is an average defender and because offensive talent eclipses any defensive deficiencies, that's OK. But even though Love is clearly the exact copy but at the PF position(all of his stats say that he is a league average defender) he is overrated? Love is bar-non the best PF in the game statistically and the only thing Griffin has over him is playoff appearances which will get remedied this season.

sixers247
10-14-2014, 09:05 AM
I don't get you at all. So Curry is an average defender and because offensive talent eclipses any defensive deficiencies, that's OK. But even though Love is clearly the exact copy but at the PF position(all of his stats say that he is a league average defender) he is overrated? Love is bar-non the best PF in the game statistically and the only thing Griffin has over him is playoff appearances which will get remedied this season.


Thank you haha you said it for me. He describes them the same exact way then hates on Love but makes Curry the man lol.

Goose17
10-14-2014, 10:12 AM
Thank you haha you said it for me. He describes them the same exact way then hates on Love but makes Curry the man lol.

Damn. Do none of you read posts properly before replying? Try reading it again. Take your time. There's no rush. Just read it properly.

Goose17
10-14-2014, 10:16 AM
Also oefarmy. Griffin is the best statistically not Love. And he's also the best on eye test. Not love.

Oefarmy2005
10-14-2014, 11:12 AM
How many times do I have to do this for people like you? Please show me where and how BG is better than KL?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=griffbl01&y1=2014&p2=loveke01&y2=2014

Goose17
10-14-2014, 12:42 PM
How many times do I have to do this for people like you? Please show me where and how BG is better than KL?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=griffbl01&y1=2014&p2=loveke01&y2=2014

I stand corrected. You're right, offensively Love wins out in most categories, didn't have access to the numbers on my phone but could have sworn Blake was statistically better. Oh well, again, there's more than stats to consider but statistically at least, Love is superior offensively. My bad.

Did you go back and read my point about Steph again or are you still struggling to grasp the point I was making?

Sadds The Gr8
10-14-2014, 01:06 PM
Anthony Davis played with complete bums because his whole team was hurt. The roster was d-league-esque by February...

So of course his defensive numbers will look bad. We'll see how he does this year with his team healthy. I think it'll be a huge jump.