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View Full Version : NBA RD Playoffs Conf. Finals (1) San Jose vs (2) Brampton



Matter.
10-06-2014, 05:49 PM
Every summer, PSD holds a game where GM's re-draft players to see who creates the best team. This year, users from the site had to utilize their skills via draft, trades. At the end of the game, GMs voted on how they believed the regular season of this game would shake up. These are the playoffs of PSD's 2014 NBA Re-Draft

Please take the time to consider each line up, the match-up itself, and vote on which team you believe would win in a seven game series.

San Jose has homecourt Advantage.

San Jose
PG: Goran Dragic/Aaron Brooks
SG: Monta Ellis/Iman Shumpert
SF: Danilo Gallinari/Danny Granger
PF: Chris Bosh/Udonis Haslem
C: Omer Asik/ DeJuan Blair

vs

Brampton

PG: Isaiah Thomas/Mario Chalmers
SG: Ray Allen/Randy Foye
SF: Lebron James/Tobias Harris
PF: Ryan Anderson/Nick Collison
C: Tyson Chandler/Nazr Mohammed

San Jose Writeup

San Jose will win :)

mightybosstone
10-06-2014, 06:27 PM
Wow... A conference finals matchup between the two top ranked teams and no semblance of a write-up from either side. That's some shameful ****. I guess I'll wait around for these two teams to give a ****, but I'm leaning toward Brampton right now.

abe_froman
10-06-2014, 06:35 PM
Wow... A conference finals matchup between the two top ranked teams and no semblance of a write-up from either side. That's some shameful ****. I guess I'll wait around for these two teams to give a ****, but I'm leaning toward Brampton right now.
i dont understand why the need for a write up.i mean,who actually takes the time to read them and are influenced by what they say? i think most people just look at the lineup ups and base their votes on that ,figuring how it'd work on their own.

TO Rapz
10-06-2014, 07:43 PM
Yep. Writeups aren't a huge deal. Debating in the thread is one thing (although I guess debates stem from writeups lol).

todu82
10-06-2014, 07:50 PM
Brampton

BranWingss
10-06-2014, 08:05 PM
Sj.

Matter.
10-06-2014, 09:06 PM
Will do a writeup once I get home

Corey
10-06-2014, 09:31 PM
I think it's fun without write ups posted, and I think it'd be cool if we keep seeds a secret too so people dont just pick the favorite automatically

KnicksorBust
10-06-2014, 09:45 PM
San Jose easily. LeBron might get 40 but San Jose has a clear edge at all the other positions. Asik gets to camp out and protect the rim. Bosh will abuse Brampton. Dragic will abuse Brampton. Ellis will abuse Brampton. And San Jose is just the better more balanced team and they fit together perfectly.

Corey
10-06-2014, 09:59 PM
I see clear advantages for San Jose at SG (Ellis vs Allen) and PF (Bosh vs Anderson), but with that said, I see Allen and Anderson as great floor spacers for Lebron and IT to operate.

I dont think the difference between Dragic and Thomas will be HUGE in terms of overall impact on the series. Same goes for Chandler vs Asik.

Lebron will obviously abuse Gallo, but Gallo will still post some points.

Looking at the benches, I'd give a slight edge to Brampton. I really like Chalmers, Harris and Collison as reserves, and Foye is capable of lighting it up at any point.

I dont want to just look at the teams and say "Oh, lebron winsssss!!!" but they surrounded him with talent that will allow him to work in his most effective zones, and gave him a defensive anchor at center and some other players to help with the scoring load.

Brampton in 6.

Corey
10-06-2014, 10:01 PM
San Jose easily. LeBron might get 40 but San Jose has a clear edge at all the other positions. Asik gets to camp out and protect the rim. Bosh will abuse Brampton. Dragic will abuse Brampton. Ellis will abuse Brampton. And San Jose is just the better more balanced team and they fit together perfectly.

As for Thomas v Dragic, in head to head matchups they've produced pretty equally, and that was without Thomas having players like Lebron and Chandler behind him.

I agree on Ellis, though.

aLau10
10-06-2014, 11:08 PM
Brampton in 6

Matter.
10-06-2014, 11:40 PM
I just don't see enough scoring from Brampton to beat San Jose, sure Lebron will get his share and IT might get some but still other then that not much input from the other 3 starters, Allen I doubt can play 34-37 minutes anymore and ELLIS will torch him ... Plus We all saw what happens when when you slow down lebrons teammates ..

Sadds The Gr8
10-06-2014, 11:52 PM
San Jose easily. LeBron might get 40 but San Jose has a clear edge at all the other positions. Asik gets to camp out and protect the rim. Bosh will abuse Brampton. Dragic will abuse Brampton. Ellis will abuse Brampton. And San Jose is just the better more balanced team and they fit together perfectly.
Isaiah will get his against Dragic also. He scored 19, 27, and 29 pts in their matchups last year and shot over 50%.

Gallinari and his bumpy knee/questionable health is a sieve to LeBron and he'll have driving lanes all series. Simply nobody on their team to guard lebron, plus on the other side, it'll basically be 3v5 on defense with Asik being a 0 on offense and Gallo shut down by LeBron.

I also don't see how Asik is an upgrade to Chandler especially since he had the worst season of his career last year and doesn't contribute at all on offense. At least Chandler makes for a good pnr finisher for our team.

Monta Ellis is also hot garbage on defense and could free up Ray Allen for lots of 3s as well. He was apart of the worst defensive backcourt in the league last year and was torched numerous games.

Bosh is better than Anderson but bosh is also out of place defensively as he'll be guarding the perimeter and freeing those driving lanes for LeBron, with injury prone gallinari guarding him.

Yes they have good 1v1 matchups but that's always a dumb way to determine who's better. If that was the case, LAC would've easily beaten the thunder last year. Our team fits together really well (better than theirs I'll say) and is loaded with 3 pt bombers to take advantage of the awful LeBron matchups. It's either LeBron getting to the rim at will, or fixing help and kicking to great shooters.

Sadds The Gr8
10-06-2014, 11:57 PM
I just don't see enough scoring from Brampton to beat San Jose, sure Lebron will get his share and IT might get some but still other then that not much input from the other 3 starters, Allen I doubt can play 34-37 minutes anymore and ELLIS will torch him ... Plus We all saw what happens when when you slow down lebrons teammates ..

LeBron is averaging at least 35 ppg this series. Gallo has no chance. And Ellis is just awful on defense and will give up tons of 3s to Allen and foye. We obviously won't play Allen 35 mins. Foye is capable of around 20 mins per game. Anderson is a 17+ppg scorer so I don't know how we lack scoring. U have absolutely no defense on the perimeter

IT averaged 20+ last year vs dragic. He'ss getting more than some. We don't have several ballhandlers stunting our offense like u have in your lineup with Gallo, Ellis, Dragic. There's only one ball.

Sadds The Gr8
10-07-2014, 12:08 AM
Dont see how anyone can say Brampton has limited scoring with Harris and foye in the bench. When we go small with LeBron at pf with bosh in the game we'd score in droves.

xxplayerxx23
10-07-2014, 12:35 AM
Brampton in 6. Good floor balance. Solid anchor on defense even if he's a quitter, Galo has no chance to stop Lebron from hitting 35-40 a game in this series

Matter.
10-07-2014, 12:37 AM
Who's stopping Dragic ellis and bosh from scoring 15+ per game?

Corey
10-07-2014, 01:03 AM
Who's stopping Dragic ellis and bosh from scoring 15+ per game?

Who cares if they get 15+ per game? Lebron and IT are good for 45 too.

Sadds The Gr8
10-07-2014, 01:45 AM
Who's stopping Dragic ellis and bosh from scoring 15+ per game?
Who's stopping lebron, thomas, or anderson? And how would u counter lebron at PF lineups?

mightybosstone
10-07-2014, 08:17 AM
I just don't see enough scoring from Brampton to beat San Jose, sure Lebron will get his share and IT might get some but still other then that not much input from the other 3 starters, Allen I doubt can play 34-37 minutes anymore and ELLIS will torch him ... Plus We all saw what happens when when you slow down lebrons teammates ..

I don't see that as an issue at all. Thomas and Anderson are each capable of scoring 20 a night and they should easily be able to get 10-15 from Allen if he's playing 25+ minutes. And I think they could get 10+ on given nights from Chandler, Harris, Chalmers and Foye. Brampton may have 1-2 issues, but I don't think scoring is one of them.

Matter.
10-07-2014, 09:09 AM
Who's stopping Dragic ellis and bosh from scoring 15+ per game?

Who cares if they get 15+ per game? Lebron and IT are good for 45 too.

IT needs the ball to score if I remember correctly, so I don't know what you mean by he is scoring 45, if we sayy that I can say Ellis will score 45 and bosh will score 45 ... I don't see how Brampton will stop Bosh

Matter.
10-07-2014, 09:11 AM
What will Brampton do when we run a 3-2 zone they have no post players beside LeBron

mightybosstone
10-07-2014, 09:18 AM
What will Brampton do when we run a 3-2 zone they have no post players beside LeBron

You break the zone with penetration with Lebron, Thomas, Allen, Chalmers, Foye, etc. Also, it's not like you have amazing perimeter defenders who could make a 3-2 zone work that effectively.

mightybosstone
10-07-2014, 09:25 AM
IT needs the ball to score if I remember correctly, so I don't know what you mean by he is scoring 45, if we sayy that I can say Ellis will score 45 and bosh will score 45.
He's saying that Lebron and Thomas combined would score 45 because you suggested that your top three scorers would score 45+ a night. Not that Lebron and Thomas would each score 45 points a night.


... I don't see how Brampton will stop Bosh
Do they really have to? It's not like Bosh has been some unstoppable offensive force in the postseason the past few years. Even given an increased role in the offense, I'm not exactly seeing him as a 25 PPG kind of player. Also, Brampton could easily counter this question with "I don't see how San Jose is going to stop Lebron." And Lebron is a far greater concern offensively than Bosh.

And if Bosh were to go off, Brampton could always counter with Lebron, Chandler or Collison defensively. They have guys capable of defending the PF position at a high level.

Matter.
10-07-2014, 09:25 AM
What will Brampton do when we run a 3-2 zone they have no post players beside LeBron

You break the zone with penetration with Lebron, Thomas, Allen, Chalmers, Foye, etc. Also, it's not like you have amazing perimeter defenders who could make a 3-2 zone work that effectively.

We would atleast be able to disrupt them and the plan is to let LeBron have his way and slow down others but I guess there's no point to arguing because looks like I already lost

mightybosstone
10-07-2014, 09:27 AM
We would atleast be able to disrupt them and the plan is to let LeBron have his way and slow down others but I guess there's no point to arguing because looks like I already lost

You're only down by five votes. You were down by 7 this morning, I think. I've seen far greater comebacks than five votes.

KnicksorBust
10-07-2014, 12:19 PM
What will Brampton do when we run a 3-2 zone they have no post players beside LeBron

I hate this strategy.

KnicksorBust
10-07-2014, 12:20 PM
You're only down by five votes. You were down by 7 this morning, I think. I've seen far greater comebacks than five votes.

Yeah he's down 10-6. That's nothing. I was down like 13-2 in a match-up a few years ago and came back and won.

KnicksorBust
10-07-2014, 12:21 PM
Who's stopping lebron, thomas, or anderson? And how would u counter lebron at PF lineups?

The fact that your lineup relies so heavily on Isaiah Thomas and Ryan Anderson is the main reason why I'm voting San Jose. There's a reason the Kings let him walk to be a backup in Phoenix.

KnicksorBust
10-07-2014, 12:22 PM
Who's stopping lebron, thomas, or anderson? And how would u counter lebron at PF lineups?

The fact that Isaiah Thomas and Ryan Anderson are being relied on as #2 and #3 option is one of the main reasons why I'm voting for San Jose. There is a reason the Kings let Thomas walk to be a backup in Phoenix.

KnicksorBust
10-07-2014, 12:22 PM
I also saw first-hand a huge drop-off in Chandler's production. He did not look like the same player from 2 years ago. I would take Asik over him this season.

mightybosstone
10-07-2014, 12:40 PM
The fact that Isaiah Thomas and Ryan Anderson are being relied on as #2 and #3 option is one of the main reasons why I'm voting for San Jose. There is a reason the Kings let Thomas walk to be a backup in Phoenix.

Yes, because Sacramento is one of the most incompetent front offices in all of professional sports. Thomas was clearly the second best player on that Kings team last season, and they let him walk to sign for a totally reasonable deal to be a backup to another Western Conference team. We're talking about a guy who put up 20/6/3/1 with great efficiency. Why couldn't he be a solid No. 2 on a contending team? Hell, his numbers last year were pretty much on par with Wade's production.

As for Anderson, he's been a No. 2 or No. 3 guy on a contending team before in Orlando, so I see no issue with him taking on that role, especially next to an ideal fit like Lebron.

Sadds The Gr8
10-07-2014, 12:59 PM
The fact that your lineup relies so heavily on Isaiah Thomas and Ryan Anderson is the main reason why I'm voting San Jose. There's a reason the Kings let him walk to be a backup in Phoenix.
We have other jump shooters too. Plus they dont even have the defenders to guard my 3 best players so i don't know why that's a reason for me to lose. If they had competent defenders guarding my 3 best players I'd get your logic but all 3 of James, Isaiah, Anderson would have big series'.


The fact that Isaiah Thomas and Ryan Anderson are being relied on as #2 and #3 option is one of the main reasons why I'm voting for San Jose. There is a reason the Kings let Thomas walk to be a backup in Phoenix.

And there's a reason that move was panned by a million nba writers and analysts. Sacramento is one of the worst FO's in the league. Isaiah Thomas was better than Kyrie last year and they replaced him with Collison lol. Could u imagine the Cavs letting kyrie walk to sign Collison? Completely idiotic move by Sacramento so I wouldn't use that basis to judge Thomas

Sadds The Gr8
10-07-2014, 01:00 PM
I also saw first-hand a huge drop-off in Chandler's production. He did not look like the same player from 2 years ago. I would take Asik over him this season.
Don't know how you can say Asik is better when he was trash last year also and quit in his team but ok.

Both guys should be motivated for next season and if that's the case, I'm still taking Chandler because he can somewhat tribute to offense and isn't a complete 0 on this roster. James could make better use of him than Melo could ever dream of. Chandler is a guy dependant on great pg/pnr play and we have that, unlike the Knicks who had the worst starting pg in the league last year.

Sadds The Gr8
10-07-2014, 01:01 PM
Brampton in 6. Good floor balance. Solid anchor on defense even if he's a quitter, Galo has no chance to stop Lebron from hitting 35-40 a game in this series
I know u already voted and my point will mean nothing but Asik quit on his team too haha

xxplayerxx23
10-07-2014, 02:06 PM
I know u already voted and my point will mean nothing but Asik quit on his team too haha


Oh I know but asik was not on the Knicks haha ;)

Raps18-19 Champ
10-07-2014, 08:37 PM
I just don't see enough scoring from Brampton to beat San Jose, sure Lebron will get his share and IT might get some but still other then that not much input from the other 3 starters, Allen I doubt can play 34-37 minutes anymore and ELLIS will torch him ... Plus We all saw what happens when when you slow down lebrons teammates ..

Ryan Anderson would score like 20 points with Lebron.

Redrum187
10-07-2014, 09:50 PM
San Jose has one above-average defender. Brampton easily for me.

Bruno
10-07-2014, 10:55 PM
wanted to vote San Jose but they don't had a defensive wing to slow down LBJ. have to reward the properly built LBJ team if it's opponent doesn't have a defender who can slow him down.

The_Jamal
10-08-2014, 03:06 AM
Brampton owns this **** so hard. Easily the best team in the redraft

Matter.
10-08-2014, 08:54 AM
San Jose has one above-average defender. Brampton easily for me.

Brampton has LeBron who can only guard one player and Chandler and Asik would guard each other
So your logic is flawed because we are a bigger threat to score rather then Brampton

Matter.
10-08-2014, 08:57 AM
I just don't see enough scoring from Brampton to beat San Jose, sure Lebron will get his share and IT might get some but still other then that not much input from the other 3 starters, Allen I doubt can play 34-37 minutes anymore and ELLIS will torch him ... Plus We all saw what happens when when you slow down lebrons teammates ..

Ryan Anderson would score like 20 points with Lebron.

And Ellis will score 30 with Dragic ajd Bosh

valade16
10-08-2014, 09:02 AM
[LeBron] owns this **** so hard. Easily the best [player] in the redraft

Fixed this for you. Because really that's all this is. Get 1st pick + not be a moron = Championship.

Is that pretty much how it goes?

mightybosstone
10-08-2014, 10:51 AM
Fixed this for you. Because really that's all this is. Get 1st pick + not be a moron = Championship.

Is that pretty much how it goes?
Pretty much, but you'd be shocked how little this actually happens. There was a running joke in re-drafts for years that first round picks were wasted on poor GMs in the NBA re-draft, because GMs could never build competent teams around Lebron with those second and third picks. This team did that and then some. They supplied Lebron with very solid complimentary scoring pieces in Thomas and Anderson and two perfect role playing veterans in Allen and Chandler. It's just a very well constructed team.

That's not to say that San Jose isn't well constructed either. Obviously they are. But there's a reason why the No. 1 pick in those games is so valuable. Lebron and Durant are just in a league of their own right now and any GM that builds around them well enough is going to contend very well in these games.

Edit: Plus, you have to remember that the playoffs in these games aren't "who did the best job of drafting, making trades and playing the game," but are about "who has the best team on paper?" As re-draft veterans we tend to forget that sometimes. We want to vote for the person who did the best job over someone who lucked into a high pick and just made competent moves. But that's not how it works and luck always plays a factor.

valade16
10-08-2014, 11:12 AM
Pretty much, but you'd be shocked how little this actually happens. There was a running joke in re-drafts for years that first round picks were wasted on poor GMs in the NBA re-draft, because GMs could never build competent teams around Lebron with those second and third picks. This team did that and then some. They supplied Lebron with very solid complimentary scoring pieces in Thomas and Anderson and two perfect role playing veterans in Allen and Chandler. It's just a very well constructed team.

That's not to say that San Jose isn't well constructed either. Obviously they are. But there's a reason why the No. 1 pick in those games is so valuable. Lebron and Durant are just in a league of their own right now and any GM that builds around them well enough is going to contend very well in these games.

Edit: Plus, you have to remember that the playoffs in these games aren't "who did the best job of drafting, making trades and playing the game," but are about "who has the best team on paper?" As re-draft veterans we tend to forget that sometimes. We want to vote for the person who did the best job over someone who lucked into a high pick and just made competent moves. But that's not how it works and luck always plays a factor.

I completely hear ya. I actually floated the idea that the 1st (and 2nd overall pick as long as Bron / Durant are head and shoulders above eeveryone else) should automatically go to first time players because they are more likely to not get an auto win with having LeBron

mightybosstone
10-08-2014, 11:19 AM
I completely hear ya. I actually floated the idea that the 1st (and 2nd overall pick as long as Bron / Durant are head and shoulders above eeveryone else) should automatically go to first time players because they are more likely to not get an auto win with having LeBron
I would've killed for a No. 1 or No. 2 overall pick in an NBA game in my PSD game days. I never had a pick higher than sixth in the All-time Re-draft. And I never picked higher than 11th in the NBA Re-draft. That was the year my co-GM traded up like 1-2 picks to get Deron Williams without my consent and dealt our second rounder for absolutely nothing in the process. :facepalm:

Sadds The Gr8
10-08-2014, 11:53 AM
Brampton has LeBron who can only guard one player and Chandler and Asik would guard each other
So your logic is flawed because we are a bigger threat to score rather then Brampton
What? LeBron is more than capable of guarding bosh for a period of time throughout games. Can guard Monta as well...

Plus there's something called help defense that Chandler does. He'll protect the rim from dragic and Ellis slashes

And Ellis will score 30 with Dragic ajd Bosh
There's only one ball Lmao. No way in hell that'd happen...

You just fail to realize for some reason that my team can easily score. LeBron owning Gallo opens up so much for my team. Obviously there will be helpers from the wings when lbj repeatedly blows by Gallo (no way a team would allow LeBron to beeline to the basket all game), and that will open up the many great 3pt shooters I have. It also opens up Chandler for alleyoops and dump off passes once Asik helps. Simple basketball logic. Absolutely nobody to stop LeBron from doing what he wants, plus great shooting options. You should've at least had a competent defender for LeBron but you don't. Gallo is just a huge question mark

Fixed this for you. Because really that's all this is. Get 1st pick + not be a moron = Championship.

Is that pretty much how it goes?
You'd like to think so but I haven't seen a LeBron team win a Redraft in the last 4 years I've played.

KnicksorBust
10-08-2014, 12:36 PM
Yes, because Sacramento is one of the most incompetent front offices in all of professional sports. Thomas was clearly the second best player on that Kings team last season, and they let him walk to sign for a totally reasonable deal to be a backup to another Western Conference team. We're talking about a guy who put up 20/6/3/1 with great efficiency. Why couldn't he be a solid No. 2 on a contending team? Hell, his numbers last year were pretty much on par with Wade's production.

Just because he had a good TS% and put up numbers on a bad team doesn't make him a #2 on a title team. Proof that numbers lie. I've seen him. The idea that he's a legit #2 is absurd. I wouldn't even list him in my top 15 point guards.


As for Anderson, he's been a No. 2 or No. 3 guy on a contending team before in Orlando, so I see no issue with him taking on that role, especially next to an ideal fit like Lebron.

This is just factually inaccurate. He was the No. 2 player for one season on an Orlando team that was a #6 seed and got bounced in the 1st round. That's not contending. And his playoff numbers are horrific. Like 0 career playoff win shares as a starter horrific.

KnicksorBust
10-08-2014, 12:38 PM
We have other jump shooters too. Plus they dont even have the defenders to guard my 3 best players so i don't know why that's a reason for me to lose. If they had competent defenders guarding my 3 best players I'd get your logic but all 3 of James, Isaiah, Anderson would have big series'.



And there's a reason that move was panned by a million nba writers and analysts. Sacramento is one of the worst FO's in the league. Isaiah Thomas was better than Kyrie last year and they replaced him with Collison lol. Could u imagine the Cavs letting kyrie walk to sign Collison? Completely idiotic move by Sacramento so I wouldn't use that basis to judge Thomas

Thomas has just been compared to Dwyane Wade and Kyrie Irving in back to back posts...

:pity:

KnicksorBust
10-08-2014, 12:38 PM
x

KnicksorBust
10-08-2014, 12:44 PM
What? LeBron is more than capable of guarding bosh for a period of time throughout games. Can guard Monta as well...

Plus there's something called help defense that Chandler does. He'll protect the rim from dragic and Ellis slashes

There's only one ball Lmao. No way in hell that'd happen...

You just fail to realize for some reason that my team can easily score. LeBron owning Gallo opens up so much for my team. Obviously there will be helpers from the wings when lbj repeatedly blows by Gallo (no way a team would allow LeBron to beeline to the basket all game), and that will open up the many great 3pt shooters I have. It also opens up Chandler for alleyoops and dump off passes once Asik helps. Simple basketball logic. Absolutely nobody to stop LeBron from doing what he wants, plus great shooting options. You should've at least had a competent defender for LeBron but you don't. Gallo is just a huge question mark

You'd like to think so but I haven't seen a LeBron team win a Redraft in the last 4 years I've played.

Chandler's help defense was terrible last season. I watched every game. It was brutal. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1971905-tyson-chandlers-defensive-decline-is-new-york-knicks-biggest-problem

And you have arguably the worst guard defense remaining in the redraft with Thomas and Ray "Old Man" Allen. How can you possibly expect to stop penetration from Dragic/Ellis?

Sadds The Gr8
10-08-2014, 01:21 PM
Thomas has just been compared to Dwyane Wade and Kyrie Irving in back to back posts...

:pity:
Wade might be a stretch (I didn't compare them) but explain how kyrie was better than Thomas last year. Thomas was the better player and both were on losing teams...kyrie just has name value over Thomas because of highlights and an undeserved all-star appearance. In terms of production Isaiah was better.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=irvinky01&y1=2014&p2=thomais02&y2=2014

At best you can say they were equal but it's laughable to act like they're incomparable

Chandler's help defense was terrible last season. I watched every game. It was brutal. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1971905-tyson-chandlers-defensive-decline-is-new-york-knicks-biggest-problem

And you have arguably the worst guard defense remaining in the redraft with Thomas and Ray "Old Man" Allen. How can you possibly expect to stop penetration from Dragic/Ellis?

I'm not arguing that Chandler was bad last year, but Asik was bad as well so I don't know why you won't take that into account. Maybe watching every Knicks game has you biased toward dismissing Chandler more?

Plus dragic and Ellis isn't much better. Ellis is one of the worst defenders in the league and was torched nightly along with Calderon last season. They have NOBODY to stop our perimeter threats either. I already explained what Thomas did to dragic last year.

mightybosstone
10-08-2014, 01:23 PM
Just because he had a good TS% and put up numbers on a bad team doesn't make him a #2 on a title team. Proof that numbers lie. I've seen him. The idea that he's a legit #2 is absurd. I wouldn't even list him in my top 15 point guards.
Lebron James took teams with far, far worse supporting casts to the Finals and those Cavs teams beat teams better than this San Jose team along the way. Would I want Thomas being my No. 2 on an average contending team? Probably not. Would I be okay with him as a No. 2 on a contending team with prime Lebron freaking James? Hell yeah I would.


This is just factually inaccurate. He was the No. 2 player for one season on an Orlando team that was a #6 seed and got bounced in the 1st round. That's not contending. And his playoff numbers are horrific. Like 0 career playoff win shares as a starter horrific.
It's accurate when you consider the context of what I'm saying. That Orlando team WAS a legitimate contender that season until Dwight went down, and he played extremely well next to Dwight in that offense. And Anderson's numbers that postseason look horrible, but consider that he was playing on a team that looked completely different with no Dwight Howard and Glen freaking Davis as the No. 1 offensive threat.

And, again, Anderson would be far better than any No. 3 Lebron had in Cleveland. Plus, he's just a perfect fit in this roster, and I feel like you're completely ignoring that.

valade16
10-08-2014, 01:49 PM
Lebron James took teams with far, far worse supporting casts to the Finals and those Cavs teams beat teams better than this San Jose team along the way. Would I want Thomas being my No. 2 on an average contending team? Probably not. Would I be okay with him as a No. 2 on a contending team with prime Lebron freaking James? Hell yeah I would.

But he's lost in the Finals with better teams.

mightybosstone
10-08-2014, 02:00 PM
But he's lost in the Finals with better teams.

True. One of the big reasons being the underwhelming play of Chris Bosh, who happens to be on the opposing team in this series.

valade16
10-08-2014, 02:45 PM
True. One of the big reasons being the underwhelming play of Chris Bosh, who happens to be on the opposing team in this series.

Touche lol

KnicksorBust
10-08-2014, 03:26 PM
Wade might be a stretch (I didn't compare them) but explain how kyrie was better than Thomas last year. Thomas was the better player and both were on losing teams...kyrie just has name value over Thomas because of highlights and an undeserved all-star appearance. In terms of production Isaiah was better.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=irvinky01&y1=2014&p2=thomais02&y2=2014

At best you can say they were equal but it's laughable to act like they're incomparable


Irving's the better ball handler, passer, and shooter. All pretty useful if you are looking for a superior point guard. I also would trust him much more in the end of close games to win the game for my team. He also led his team to more wins with Tristan Thompson and Jarrett Jack than Thomas could with Demarcus Cousins(!) and Rudy Gay. In terms of skill set, it's not even close and the fact that Isaiah Thomas is now going to be a backup just further cements it. He will go the way of Ben Gordon while Kyrie Irving becomes a star.


I'm not arguing that Chandler was bad last year, but Asik was bad as well so I don't know why you won't take that into account. Maybe watching every Knicks game has you biased toward dismissing Chandler more?

In fairness, you may be right here but any bias I might have is rooted in watching games and supported by articles and facts. Therefore, how biased can I be? :) Is bleacher report biased? Are they Knicks fans too?

Asik's "bad year" still had him a top 5 center in rim protection (47%) compared to Chandler (51%) who ranked behind such defensive studs as David Lee, Amar'e Stoudemire and Mike Dunleavy Jr.


Plus dragic and Ellis isn't much better. Ellis is one of the worst defenders in the league and was torched nightly along with Calderon last season. They have NOBODY to stop our perimeter threats either. I already explained what Thomas did to dragic last year.

Your #1 argument for victory is the bold. I agree that the most glaring weakness of San Jose is their perimeter defense but with the exception of LeBron they can get away with it. I'm not overly concerned that Ray Allen is going to blow by Monta Ellis and then make a layup on Omer Asik. Ryan Anderson isn't blowing by Chris Bosh. If you had more playmakers it would be a tougher argument.

Sadds The Gr8
10-08-2014, 03:48 PM
Irving's the better ball handler, passer, and shooter. All pretty useful if you are looking for a superior point guard. I also would trust him much more in the end of close games to win the game for my team. He also led his team to more wins with Tristan Thompson and Jarrett Jack than Thomas could with Demarcus Cousins(!) and Rudy Gay. In terms of skill set, it's not even close and the fact that Isaiah Thomas is now going to be a backup just further cements it. He will go the way of Ben Gordon while Kyrie Irving becomes a star.



In fairness, you may be right here but any bias I might have is rooted in watching games and supported by articles and facts. Therefore, how biased can I be? :) Is bleacher report biased? Are they Knicks fans too?

Asik's "bad year" still had him a top 5 center in rim protection (47%) compared to Chandler (51%) who ranked behind such defensive studs as David Lee, Amar'e Stoudemire and Mike Dunleavy Jr.



Your #1 argument for victory is the bold. I agree that the most glaring weakness of San Jose is their perimeter defense but with the exception of LeBron they can get away with it. I'm not overly concerned that Ray Allen is going to blow by Monta Ellis and then make a layup on Omer Asik. Ryan Anderson isn't blowing by Chris Bosh. If you had more playmakers it would be a tougher argument.

Passing? Kyries main criticism is inability to make teammates better...

Their shooting #s are pretty equal. Kyrie barely has an edge on 3pt shooting

Isaiah isn't a great playmaker either. Both are scoring guards. Isaiah also is very crafty with the ball and has good go-to moves himself. Kyrie may be the better trickster but who really cares about that? Isaiah is a good ball handler in his own right...it's not like it's a weakness. And lol at comparing records...the Cavs play in the garbage east. Sacramento probably would've been an 8 seed in that conference. Kyrie can have all the ballhandling highlights he wants. I care about production and Isaiah is more productive.

Who cares if he's a 6th man now? why should that lower his value? There's a shitload of players that are quality 6th men that could easily start. If he were a UFA he definitely would've had more interest and would've been signed to start by a team with cap space. His interest was lowered because he's a UFA. The Ben Gordon comparison is irrelevant.

Asik is also a 0 in offense and only makes their team easier to guard. If you don't think being on a contender will make Chandler a better defender than he was last year then oh well...I'd like to think he'd be more motivated to play on a good team than a garbage one like last year's Knicks. He'll be getting easy buckets from lbj to contribute on offense as well

I'm obviously not depending on Allen/foye to burn Ellis in offense. It's about sets and off-ball movement to get open shots. Ellis is known as a bad/lazy defender, and we can take advantage of it.

Redrum187
10-08-2014, 06:20 PM
Brampton has LeBron who can only guard one player and Chandler and Asik would guard each other
So your logic is flawed because we are a bigger threat to score rather then Brampton

Those are 2 defensive anchors. That beats your one anchor who plays 20-30 minutes a game. My logic still holds true that your team is offensive based, and not nearly equipped with the defense to contain LeBron.

Matter.
10-08-2014, 07:41 PM
After reading up about IT I have come to the conclusion that he dribbles Alot and stops ball movement , he is a excessive dribbled which could hurt Brampton

Sadds The Gr8
10-08-2014, 08:16 PM
After reading up about IT I have come to the conclusion that he dribbles Alot and stops ball movement , he is a excessive dribbled which could hurt Brampton
Monta does also....and?

Matter.
10-08-2014, 08:17 PM
Monta does also....and?

not as much as IT and IT is your primary ball handler...

Sadds The Gr8
10-08-2014, 08:17 PM
not as much as IT and IT is your primary ball handler...
LeBron will have the ball more often than IT will...especially with Gallo guarding him

Matter.
10-08-2014, 08:26 PM
But IT needs the ball to score

Sadds The Gr8
10-08-2014, 11:22 PM
But IT needs the ball to score
So do dragic and Ellis. How is your logic a negative only for me and not you? Lol. We both have lineups with 2 good ball handlers. You have 3, which is actually more of a problem...

Ebbs
10-09-2014, 02:55 PM
San Jose would murder them. This forum is a **** hole.

Ebbs
10-09-2014, 02:55 PM
After reading up about IT I have come to the conclusion that he dribbles Alot and stops ball movement , he is a excessive dribbled which could hurt Brampton

Although if I read this stupid post I'd have abstained from voting.