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Matter.
10-06-2014, 05:43 PM
Every summer, PSD holds a game where GM's re-draft players to see who creates the best team. This year, users from the site had to utilize their skills via draft, trades. At the end of the game, GMs voted on how they believed the regular season of this game would shake up. These are the playoffs of PSD's 2014 NBA Re-Draft

Please take the time to consider each line up, the match-up itself, and vote on which team you believe would win in a seven game series.

Seattle has Homecourt Advantage.

Seattle
PG: Jeff Teague (33) + Cory Joseph (15)
SG: JJ Redick (25) + Alan Anderson (23)
SF: Luol Deng (33) + Martell Webster (15) + Mirza Teletovic (if needed)
PF: Zach Randolph (33) + Mirza Teletovic (10) + Andrew Nicholson (5)
C: Marc Gasol (35) + Andrew Nicholson (13)

vs

Seaside
PG: Kemba Walker/ Kendall Marshall
SG: Joe Johnson /Rodney Stuckey
SF: Nicolas Batum/ Omri Casspi
PF: Tiago Splitter /Brandon Bass
C: Al Horford /Tyler Zeller

Seaside Writeup:

Congratulations on Seattle getting to the conference finals. This should be a great matchup however I believe it will be my team advancing to the Finals. Seattle has a well built team, one that mimics the Grizzlies strongly, however the Grizzlies are not without their flaws.

Much like the last matchup vs Des Plains, Seattle's starting lineup features subpar 3pt shooting. Teague shot 32.9 % from 3 last season and Deng shot 30.2%. Redick is their only reliable shooter and to bring in more 3pt shooting they have to send Deng to the bench, severely limiting both their athleticism and defense.

Additionally their offense is severely lacking a number 1 scoring option. Zach Randolph is now a black hole efficiency-wise (50% TS% last 3 seasons) and no one scores over 17 PPG. If their offense is planning to be run through their post players (as I strongly believe he will attempt to do) I will crowd in with Horford / Splitter and see if his subpar 3 pt shooting can beat us.

On Offense, Johnson and Batum will continue to provide lights out 3pt shooting (40.1 and 36.1 %). Our offense is perfectly suited to provide inside-outside versatility. Seattle will have to deploy Marc Gasol to guarding Horford which hinders his ability to be a rim protector, which should allow more open driving lanes for Kemba and Johnson then there otherwise might have been vs Marc Gasol led defense.

In conclusion I feel this will once again be another nail biter, but we have the versatility to advance. Thank you all for voting!!

TO Rapz
10-06-2014, 06:06 PM
My writeup is coming up.

TO Rapz
10-06-2014, 06:23 PM
Congrats to Seaside and Valade. I actually talk to you quite a bit so nice seeing you in this matchup lol.

The backcourts:

Kemba only shot 39% from the field this year, and now in three seasons, he's shot only 40%. Yes, he averages 18 points a game but it takes him 16 shots to do so.

Teague shot 44% from the field this year and is a career 45% shooter. He averaged 16.5 points a game on better efficiency.

Teague averaged 6.7 assists per game and Kemba averaged 6.1, while they both shot 33% from 3 point land.

It's pretty clear that Teague wins the PG matchup especially when you factor in his defense and efficiency.


At the 2, we have a battle of JJs.

Redick averaged 15.1 points per, Joe averaged 15.8 per. Both twos have different roles for their teams. For my squad, JJ Redick is there to spread the floor. Last year, JJ Redick shot 40% from 3, and he's known to be a reliable stretch 2. We understand that JJ could cause a matchup problem height wise, but JJ is much quicker than him on the other end of the floor. Joe's defense is also not very good.

I feel that I have the advantage at the 1 whereas he has the advantage (based on which Joe Johnson shows up) at the 2. I just feel like spacing wise and combination wise, a Teague - Redick duo are more likely to succeed. Kemba Walker and Joe Johnson have such similar styles of play, I believe they would clash. Way too similar.

For those that are arguing, "but TO did you see Joe Johnson's playoffs." My simple counter is, "did you see Jeff Teague's playoffs?" He stepped up and I believe he is the x-factor in this series as he showed with Atlanta. He plays the Mike Conley role on my team.

TO Rapz
10-06-2014, 06:37 PM
The 3's:

This is huge, that's why I made a separate post. I feel like after his stint in Cleveland, Deng is getting extremely underrated.

No Deng isn't a great 3 point shooter. Although, I'd like to point out one thing here.

Deng made his debut with the Bulls at the age of 19, check this out:

19 years old: 61 games, 26.5% shooting from 3.
20 years old: 78 games, 26.9% shooting from 3.
21 years old: 82 games, 14.3% shooting from 3.

That my friends, is 221 games. In Deng's NBA career, he's played 677 games. When you do the math, that comes out to be exactly 33%. So for one third of his career, he shot 22.5%. No **** his career 3 point average is going to be down.

At age 22, he finally turned it around. Since then, he's shot 36%, 40%, 39%, 35%, 32% and 30%. He's been a 36% 3 point shooter.

I'm not saying by any means he's Kyle Korver, I'm just saying he's a respectable 3 point shooter.

Anyways, Deng's biggest asset is his slashing ability. He's an extremely efficient career 46% shooter. He shot 43% last year in a "down year".

Batum averaged 13 points per game on 46.5% shooting.
Deng averaged 16 points per game on 43% shooting (in a down year, career 46% shooter..)

Batum averaged 7.5 rebounds per game.
Deng averaged 5.7 rebounds per game.

Batum's 6'8. Deng's 6'9 and a very, very stingy defender.

I know most people love Batum, but I just hope people realize Deng isn't dead. He's exactly the kind of player I want at the 3 with my front court. Slight edge here goes to Batum, hopefully people realize that in a fresh season, Deng is a lot closer to Batum than you think and could be better.

TO Rapz
10-06-2014, 06:45 PM
Front court:

This is where I dominate. His best player is Al Horford. I have one of the best defensive players in the NBA matching up against him. I'm not saying Gasol will completely shut him down but quite simply, he can limit Horford as much as anyone possibly can. It's pretty clear Marc Gasol is the better player between the two. Don't think I need to argue this much.

Zbo steps all over Tiago here. Zbo's issue is his defense, so if he had a stretch 4 here who could beat Zbo off the dribble or any gifted offensively 4, I would have had a matchup issue. But he doesn't.

17.4 points per and 10.1 boards a game. With him having to do minimal work defensively against an offensively limited Tiago, I think my front court is all over his.

My front court has proven chemistry and has showed they work well together, too.

TO Rapz
10-06-2014, 06:51 PM
Also, for the lack of 3% shooting comment. Alan Anderson, Mirza Teletovic, and Martell Webster can ALL hit the 3 off the bench. Webster's a career 40% shooter and my 6th man.

todu82
10-06-2014, 07:55 PM
Seaside.

KnicksorBust
10-06-2014, 09:49 PM
Seaside. I hate seattles bench. I also think Seaside has the far better wing rotation and Horford Splitter are both talented 2 way players.

valade16
10-06-2014, 10:55 PM
If everyone who is saying Seaside could actually vote for them it'd be greatly appreciated as I seem to find myself without a single vote thus far.

aLau10
10-06-2014, 11:10 PM
Seaside in 7

ROY 2 MVP Braun
10-06-2014, 11:12 PM
If everyone who is saying Seaside could actually vote for them it'd be greatly appreciated as I seem to find myself without a single vote thus far.

Can I pick seaside as well? I'm on my phone and can't vote on the poll. So if a mod can add 1 to seaside that would be appreciated

KnicksorBust
10-07-2014, 12:28 PM
At age 22, he finally turned it around. Since then, he's shot 36%, 40%, 39%, 35%, 32% and 30%. He's been a 36% 3 point shooter.
.

Or in the last three years he's shot terribly again. Why are we counting his 2009 percentages to prove he's a good shooter now? That makes no sense.

TO Rapz
10-07-2014, 12:46 PM
Or in the last three years he's shot terribly again. Why are we counting his 2009 percentages to prove he's a good shooter now? That makes no sense.

You don't just stop being a bad shooter. Especially not in your prime. Dengs what 28-29? I'm on my phone so can't check. I'll take 4 straight seasons of 35% or more from 3 over two seasons where he's been below, one in which he was clearly unsettled.

Redrum187
10-07-2014, 09:56 PM
You don't just stop being a bad shooter. Especially not in your prime. Dengs what 28-29? I'm on my phone so can't check. I'll take 4 straight seasons of 35% or more from 3 over two seasons where he's been below, one in which he was clearly unsettled.

Of course you'd take 4 straight seasons of 35% as opposed to the rest of his career where he was noticeably below average for the most part. Who wouldn't? lol

Bruno
10-07-2014, 10:51 PM
Seattle but not by much.

mightybosstone
10-08-2014, 11:11 AM
I think both teams are very good and are well constructed, but I'm not personally a huge fan of either team, which is why I've voted against both of them at times throughout the playoffs. Certain things about both squads are just offputting for me and make me want to vote against them, which is not to say they were poorly constructed. On the contrary, these are two well crafted teams that deserve to be here.

That being said, I'm giving Seattle the slightest of edges. I loathe their bench, but I just think their starting five fits together extremely well on paper. As others have already pointed out, you could make a strong argument that this squad is a rich man's version of Memphis. There are a lot of veterans on that team that I trust and despite coming off of a bad season, I think Deng would play up for the occasion and be the No. 2 or No. 3 guy they need him to be.

I just have too many concerns with Seaside. They're a little deeper, but they also have more question marks. I'm not the biggest Kemba Walker fan, and I question how he would perform in the postseason and playing more off the ball next to JJ. And then there's JJ, who has historically had some horrific postseason performances in his career and will have to be the No. 1 or No. 2 guy on that Seaside roster. Also, I think Splitter is a well below average starter in a game like this and although I'm a huge Horford fan, the injury concerns to leave a bit of a question mark, especially as the best player on that roster and going up against Gasol.

I think JJ and Horford would win Seaside some games, but there will also be games Johnson's shot isn't falling and Horford is getting stifled by Gasol. I trust Seattle's more balanced offensive attack. They lack great floor spacing, but Randolph would feast for 20/10 consistently against Splitter and Bass, and I love Teague against Walker. Seattle wins it in seven.

valade16
10-08-2014, 11:35 AM
I think JJ and Horford would win Seaside some games, but there will also be games Johnson's shot isn't falling and Horford is getting stifled by Gasol. I trust Seattle's more balanced offensive attack. They lack great floor spacing, but Randolph would feast for 20/10 consistently against Splitter and Bass, and I love Teague against Walker. Seattle wins it in seven.

I will play Horford against Randolph more consistently than I will Tiago. Tiago is a quality defender overall (he allows 44.7% at the rim, one of the best marks in the league last season).

He has a good team, no doubt. But if you're concerned about Joe Johnson being a viable #2 scoring option then you have to be very nervous about Zach Randolph being a #1 scoring option, which he will have to be for Seattle. I mean, Kemba is not a very efficient scorer however he is just as efficient as Zach Randolph.

The difference is his inefficient scorer has to be his primary scoring option whereas mine is one of many.

mightybosstone
10-08-2014, 11:59 AM
I will play Horford against Randolph more consistently than I will Tiago. Tiago is a quality defender overall (he allows 44.7% at the rim, one of the best marks in the league last season).
Splitter has made some significant improvements on that end since he first came into the league, but I also think he benefits a lot from playing next to one of the best defensive big men in the history of the NBA. Putting him on Gasol is probably a better fit for him defensively, as I like him more as an athletic defender of versatile bigs than a low post defender who has to be physical against someone like Randolph.


He has a good team, no doubt. But if you're concerned about Joe Johnson being a viable #2 scoring option then you have to be very nervous about Zach Randolph being a #1 scoring option, which he will have to be for Seattle. I mean, Kemba is not a very efficient scorer however he is just as efficient as Zach Randolph.

The difference is his inefficient scorer has to be his primary scoring option whereas mine is one of many.
See, but I'm concerned about that with Memphis every year, and it still doesn't matter. He, Conley and Gasol still make it work. And I think Teague is an excellent replacement for Conley. He doesn't have as reliable a 3-point shot as Conley does, but he's every bit as efficient overall as a scorer and you could argue he's a penetrator, playmaker and distributor. And those Memphis teams don't have options on the wings nearly as strong as Seattle does with Reddick and Deng.

The biggest issue I see with Seattle is that their perimeter defense won't be nearly as good as Memphis' is with Conley and Allen. But I think Deng could really help diminish the loss on that end of the floor. I see this squad as a far better offensive version of Memphis but also a step down defensively.

KnicksorBust
10-08-2014, 12:49 PM
You don't just stop being a bad shooter. Especially not in your prime. Dengs what 28-29? I'm on my phone so can't check. I'll take 4 straight seasons of 35% or more from 3 over two seasons where he's been below, one in which he was clearly unsettled.

Three years isn't enough of a trend to convince you he can't hit 3's? Again, why would I possibly use his percentages from 5 years ago when the last 3 all tell me the same thing? It makes no sense. Batum is clearly better than him. Johnson is way better than Reddick. Kemba and Teague are on the same level. Horford is clearly better than Zbo. And Splitter is a capable defender vs. Gasol.

Seaside has 4 superior players in their starting lineup. A ton of chemistry. Great offense-defense balance. They have shooters. They have post players. They have good passing. I'm still not seeing how it's not their series to take.

mightybosstone
10-08-2014, 01:13 PM
Three years isn't enough of a trend to convince you he can't hit 3's? Again, why would I possibly use his percentages from 5 years ago when the last 3 all tell me the same thing? It makes no sense. Batum is clearly better than him. Johnson is way better than Reddick. Kemba and Teague are on the same level. Horford is clearly better than Zbo. And Splitter is a capable defender vs. Gasol.

Seaside has 4 superior players in their starting lineup. A ton of chemistry. Great offense-defense balance. They have shooters. They have post players. They have good passing. I'm still not seeing how it's not their series to take.
Huh? Where are you getting "four superior players" from? You could maybe make a case for three, and even that's a bit of a stretch. If we're using the archaic system of going position by position, it would look something like this:
PG: Teague >= Walker
SG: Reddick < Johnson
SF: Deng <= Batum
PF: Randolph > Splitter
C: Gasol >= Horford

To me, that's an advantage for Seattle at three positions. If you swap Splitter and Horford on the depth chart, it gives Seaside a slight advantage at three positions. But it's essentially a moot point, because you and I know that games aren't won that way. Everything else you said about Seaside essentially goes for Seattle as well. And I think they're a superior defensive team thanks to Gasol and have superior chemistry thanks to the Randolph/Gasol front court.

The only area where I'd give Seaside the edge is in floor spacing, but to me that's not that huge of an issue. Seattle still has the best shooter on either team in Reddick, Gasol is an excellent mid-range shooter for a center and both Teague and Deng make enough threes to warrant being defended on the perimeter.

TO Rapz
10-08-2014, 02:17 PM
Three years isn't enough of a trend to convince you he can't hit 3's? Again, why would I possibly use his percentages from 5 years ago when the last 3 all tell me the same thing? It makes no sense. Batum is clearly better than him. Johnson is way better than Reddick. Kemba and Teague are on the same level. Horford is clearly better than Zbo. And Splitter is a capable defender vs. Gasol.

Seaside has 4 superior players in their starting lineup. A ton of chemistry. Great offense-defense balance. They have shooters. They have post players. They have good passing. I'm still not seeing how it's not their series to take.

Wow. :laugh2:

The comparison of players if we're using the whole >=< system is mindblowing. I lost you at Teague and Kemba are on the same level.

KnicksorBust
10-08-2014, 03:38 PM
Wow. :laugh2:

The comparison of players if we're using the whole >=< system is mindblowing. I lost you at Teague and Kemba are on the same level.

I swear it's like some of you watch 0 games. I'm all for a statistical revolution but watch a damn playoff game. Have you seen how bad Teague plays in the playoffs?

Hey but Teague averaged 16ppg and 7apg. He is a good point guard! Do you have any idea how bad he is defensively (or how good Kemba is)? Do you have any idea how his turnover % compares to Kemba? There is so much more to basketball. Especially to being a point guard. Until you address the 3 questions that I asked in this post then you should keep your little chuckleface in the box.

TO Rapz
10-08-2014, 03:40 PM
I swear it's like some of you watch 0 games. I'm all for a statistical revolution but watch a damn playoff game. Have you seen how bad Teague plays in the playoffs?

Hey but Teague averaged 16ppg and 7apg. He is a good point guard! Do you have any idea how bad he is defensively (or how good Kemba is)? Do you have any idea how his turnover % compares to Kemba? There is so much more to basketball. Especially to being a point guard. Until you address the 3 questions that I asked in this post then you should keep your little chuckleface in the box.

Yes. I watch no basketball.

KnicksorBust
10-08-2014, 03:48 PM
Yes. I watch no basketball.

Saying you watch no basketball would be an exaggeration. Maybe 0 Hawks games though...


I feel that I have the advantage at the 1 whereas he has the advantage (based on which Joe Johnson shows up) at the 2. I just feel like spacing wise and combination wise, a Teague - Redick duo are more likely to succeed. Kemba Walker and Joe Johnson have such similar styles of play, I believe they would clash. Way too similar.

For those that are arguing, "but TO did you see Joe Johnson's playoffs." My simple counter is, "did you see Jeff Teague's playoffs?" He stepped up and I believe he is the x-factor in this series as he showed with Atlanta. He plays the Mike Conley role on my team.

Jeff Teague quote: "He stepped up (in the playoffs) and I believe he is the x-factor in this series as he showed with Atlanta."

Jeff Teague's last 4 games of the Hawks-Pacers series:

Game 4: shot 5-15fg, 7 assists to 4 turnovers

Game 5: shot 3-8fg, 4 assists to 3 turnovers

Game 6: shot 9-21fg, 2 assists to 1 turnover

Game 7: shot 5-16fg, 3 assists to 5 turnovers with 5 personal fouls

Season over.

This is your "x-factor" who "stepped up" in the playoffs?

mightybosstone
10-08-2014, 04:18 PM
I swear it's like some of you watch 0 games. I'm all for a statistical revolution but watch a damn playoff game. Have you seen how bad Teague plays in the playoffs?
I watched several of the Hawks playoff games last year and I thought Teague played damn well in those games. Hell, he was probably the reason the Hawks were in that playoff series at all. Sure, he was terrible in Game 7, but I thought he was pretty great in Games 1 and 3, which the Hawks won. I didn't see Game 6, but his numbers were damn good in that game, too.


Hey but Teague averaged 16ppg and 7apg. He is a good point guard! Do you have any idea how bad he is defensively (or how good Kemba is)? Do you have any idea how his turnover % compares to Kemba? There is so much more to basketball. Especially to being a point guard. Until you address the 3 questions that I asked in this post then you should keep your little chuckleface in the box.
Sure, Teague has a higher TO% than Walker, but his AST% is also higher. Are we just supposed to ignore that? Or the fact that Teague is just a far, far more efficient scorer? I do think Walker is a pretty good player, and I think the gap between he and Teague is very small, but it's still a gap. I'd say the difference between the two of them and between Batum and Deng is about on par. Hell, I'd even give Seaside a pretty solid edge from PG-SF because of the significant difference between JJ and Reddick, but the front court edge for Seattle is just far greater IMO.

valade16
10-08-2014, 04:29 PM
Sure, Teague has a higher TO% than Walker, but his AST% is also higher. Are we just supposed to ignore that? Or the fact that Teague is just a far, far more efficient scorer? I do think Walker is a pretty good player, and I think the gap between he and Teague is very small, but it's still a gap. I'd say the difference between the two of them and between Batum and Deng is about on par. Hell, I'd even give Seaside a pretty solid edge from PG-SF because of the significant difference between JJ and Reddick, but the front court edge for Seattle is just far greater IMO.

Teague's AST% is 35.1. Walkers is 29.7%.

Teague's TO% is 16.1. Walker's is 11.6%.

I think in this case a 5% difference is more pronounced for Turnovers than for Assists.

KnicksorBust
10-08-2014, 04:42 PM
I swear it's like some of you watch 0 games. I'm all for a statistical revolution but watch a damn playoff game. Have you seen how bad Teague plays in the playoffs?
I watched several of the Hawks playoff games last year and I thought Teague played damn well in those games. Hell, he was probably the reason the Hawks were in that playoff series at all. Sure, he was terrible in Game 7, but I thought he was pretty great in Games 1 and 3, which the Hawks won. I didn't see Game 6, but his numbers were damn good in that game, too.


Hey but Teague averaged 16ppg and 7apg. He is a good point guard! Do you have any idea how bad he is defensively (or how good Kemba is)? Do you have any idea how his turnover % compares to Kemba? There is so much more to basketball. Especially to being a point guard. Until you address the 3 questions that I asked in this post then you should keep your little chuckleface in the box.
Sure, Teague has a higher TO% than Walker, but his AST% is also higher. Are we just supposed to ignore that? Or the fact that Teague is just a far, far more efficient scorer? I do think Walker is a pretty good player, and I think the gap between he and Teague is very small, but it's still a gap. I'd say the difference between the two of them and between Batum and Deng is about on par. Hell, I'd even give Seaside a pretty solid edge from PG-SF because of the significant difference between JJ and Reddick, but the front court edge for Seattle is just far greater IMO.

So you are defending the argument that Teague "stepped up" his game in a 7 game series where he had 2 good games, 1 okay game, and 4 horrible games including a disaster in the close out game? Be serious.

Also I am curious why you left defense out of your reply...

mightybosstone
10-08-2014, 04:55 PM
So you are defending the argument that Teague "stepped up" his game in a 7 game series where he had 2 good games, 1 okay game, and 4 horrible games including a disaster in the close out game? Be serious.
Ummm... No. I'm arguing that he had three really solid games (1, 3 and 6), three mediocre-okay games (2, 4 and 5) and one particularly bad game (7). Also, consider the defense he was playing against. Indiana may have struggled at times last season, but they were still a handful defensively. As I said, I watched a lot of that series, and I thought Teague kept them in a lot of those games.

You just criticized someone for looking at stats and not watching the games. Well, I'm telling you that I watched the games, and I thought he played extremely well for a good portion of that series.


Also I am curious why you left defense out of your reply...
Because I don't think either player is anything to write home about on the defensive side of the ball. Teague is not as good as Walker. I'm not denying that, but I don't think the difference is so great that it makes up for Teague's advantages offensively.

KnicksorBust
10-08-2014, 06:31 PM
Because I don't think either player is anything to write home about on the defensive side of the ball. Teague is not as good as Walker. I'm not denying that, but I don't think the difference is so great that it makes up for Teague's advantages offensively.

Will tackle this first...

Kemba is good:

Zach Lowe "Hes diligent on and off the ball, he moves on a string, and hes a multitasker who can monitor the rock without losing track of his guy. He might ball-watch now and then, allowing a back cut, but hes so damn fast that he makes up any deficit in a blink. Some guys start and stop, but Walker is one of those liquid-y dudes who just kind of bends from one movement into another.

He has quick hands, and he can pressure the ball when hes not tired. Part of the reason Walker gets slammed by so many picks is that he tries to conserve as much energy as possible, standing upright in a lazy defensive stance until the last possible moment when he gets into a proper crouch."

(Coach Steve) Clifford says He (Kemba) can potentially be an upper-echelon defender.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/kemba-walker-charlotte-hornets-contract-extension/

Jeff Teague is bad:

2013 article
Last year, Teague was abysmal on the defensive end. According to MySynergySports, Teague ranked 342nd in the league in overall defensive plays. Not privy to those kind of stats? Well, here was my breakdown of how Teagues awful pick-and-roll defense was a major factor in the Hawks ... when Jeff struggled to get through screens, or if he got lost in traffic on D, he forced Smith and Horford to help too much..


http://hawkshoop.com/defense-the-key-for-teague/

2014 article
"Then, there is the defensive end where, frankly, Teague is incredibly underwhelming. The point guard posted the worst defensive rating for any regular (109 points per 100), and he seemed utterly lost at times on the court. This is nothing new for Jeff, who has never been known for his defensive prowess, but expectations were understandably raised in year five of his career, and he consistently fell short on that side of the ball. At this point, no one could reasonably expect Teague to become a "stopper" or anything of the sort defensively, but the next step for Jeff will simply to be in tune to the team concept in order to cut down on mental lapses that lead to uncontested shots for the opposition."

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2014/5/27/5752806/2014-hawks-player-review-jeff-teague

That's significant.

KnicksorBust
10-08-2014, 06:47 PM
Next...


Ummm... No. I'm arguing that he had three really solid games (1, 3 and 6)

Game 1: shot 9-19fg, 5 assists to 2 turnover (agreed)
Game 3: shot 7-20fg, 10 assists to 3 turnover (agreed)
Game 6: shot 9-21fg, 2 assists to 1 turnover (agreed)

I am a reasonable person. I would accept these as solid games.


three mediocre-okay games (2, 4 and 5)

Game 2: shot 6-13fg,4 assists to 3 turnovers
Game 4: shot 5-15fg, 7 assists to 4 turnovers
Game 5: shot 3-8fg, 4 assists to 3 turnovers

This is where you lose me. On what planet is shooting a combined 39% from the field with almost as many turnovers as assists considered an "okay" game. Especially for someone who is being described as an "x-factor" and someone who "stepped up." TO brought this on himself with that outrageous quote in his writeup.


and one particularly bad game (7).

Game 7: shot 5-16fg, 3 assists to 5 turnovers with 5 personal fouls

This is a nightmare. The guy completely fell apart in the most important game of the season. 3 of his last 4 games were team killers.


Also, consider the defense he was playing against. Indiana may have struggled at times last season, but they were still a handful defensively. As I said, I watched a lot of that series, and I thought Teague kept them in a lot of those games.

How?


You just criticized someone for looking at stats and not watching the games. Well, I'm telling you that I watched the games, and I thought he played extremely well for a good portion of that series.

What did he do that made you think he was playing extremely well?

mightybosstone
10-08-2014, 07:54 PM
Game 2: shot 6-13fg,4 assists to 3 turnovers
This is a pretty solid game by the standards of any average PG. He ended up with 14 points, 4 assists, 5 boards, a block and two steals. That's a pretty productive statline in only 28 minutes and he did it with Paul George guarding him pretty much the whole game.


Game 4: shot 5-15fg, 7 assists to 4 turnovers
This wasn't a great game for him, I'll admit. Although a 14/7/6 stat line looks nice, doing it on 15 shots wasn't great, and he a had a rough fourth quarter. But again, he was being guarded by Paul freaking George, one of the best perimeter defenders in the league.


Game 5: shot 3-8fg, 4 assists to 3 turnovers

This was a quiet game, but he was fairly efficient (12 points on 8 FGA), and he didn't do anything detrimental to hurt his team. Plus, he didn't need to score a ton, because Shelvin Mack was a scoring machine that night. From your No. 2 or No. 3 guy, you'll take the occasional 12/4/4 game if someone else steps up along the way.


Game 7: shot 5-16fg, 3 assists to 5 turnovers with 5 personal fouls

This is a nightmare. The guy completely fell apart in the most important game of the season. 3 of his last 4 games were team killers.
Game 5 was absolutely not a "team killer." And he stepped up in a big way in Game 6, even hitting some big buckets late in the 4th quarter that helped Atlanta keep pace with Indiana before the Pacers eventually took over in the final few minutes.

Also, that Game 7 was a disaster for pretty much everybody on the Hawks roster. The whole Hawks team just sucked. Millsap was 6 for 21 for 17 points. Antic, Carroll, Williams and Brand were a combined 1 for 16. And Scott and Make scored 28 points on 26 FGA. Korver's the only player on the whole team who had a legitimately solid game.


How?

What did he do that made you think he was playing extremely well?
He was making baskets, creating for others and getting to the free throw line. Even with the poor FG%, the guy was still not horribly inefficient because he got to the line 6 times a game and made 95% of his free throws. He impressed me with how easily he was getting to the rim, especially against an Indiana defense where he was being guarded by Hill and George and that had Hibbert in the paint. And although he could have done more in the distribution department, a 19/5/4/1/1 performance for your No. 2 is pretty damn good, especially when he was guarded by PG the majority of the series.

But instead of constantly breaking done the individual performances, how about we look at head-to-head production for the two players?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=teaguje01&p2=walkeke02

To me, that shows a pretty significant edge in Teague's favor. Not only was he the more overall productive, efficient player in their 12 matchups, but his team won 11 of the 12 games. And it's not like Walker has improved in their head-to-head matchups as he's gotten older. Teague was still clearly the better player in their four matchups last season,

TO Rapz
10-09-2014, 11:20 AM
I would argue this further with numbers and all that but I literally have had no time in the last 3 days to get on a CPU/laptop. Everything's been from my phone. And yes KOB, I watched the Hawks enough to see Teague. I watched the whole playoff series and I remember his numbers quite well. I thought he was good.

Corey
10-09-2014, 01:25 PM
The Teague / Kemba comparison isn't lopsided enough to debate. You're all wasting keystrokes.

Kemba was slightly better in the playoffs, Teague was slightly better in the regular season this past season. Whatever.

Also, KoB calling Walker a good defender and Teague poor is pointless. Neither are anything but average. Kemba statistically had a better season, but not only is point guard defense basically meaningless, there isn't a huge difference between the two overall. Teague digressed a bit defensively, but that'll happen when Smith is gone and Horford is injured. Big deal.

Point guard defense is really overrated unless it's absolutely elite or absolutely awful. Players that fall in the middle dont really make a difference overall.

Ebbs
10-09-2014, 02:54 PM
Memphis

mightybosstone
10-09-2014, 05:24 PM
The Teague / Kemba comparison isn't lopsided enough to debate. You're all wasting keystrokes.

Kemba was slightly better in the playoffs, Teague was slightly better in the regular season this past season. Whatever.

Also, KoB calling Walker a good defender and Teague poor is pointless. Neither are anything but average. Kemba statistically had a better season, but not only is point guard defense basically meaningless, there isn't a huge difference between the two overall. Teague digressed a bit defensively, but that'll happen when Smith is gone and Horford is injured. Big deal.

Point guard defense is really overrated unless it's absolutely elite or absolutely awful. Players that fall in the middle dont really make a difference overall.

I agree with this post. But, to me, the playoff sample size isn't large enough to draw anything from, which is why I think Teague is just the better basketball player right now. Not by much, but still slightly better. And I think he's proven that in head-to-head matchups.

TO Rapz
10-09-2014, 11:14 PM
Finals here we come!!