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View Full Version : NBA RD Playoffs Conf. Semi's (7) Des Plaines vs (3) Seaside



Matter.
09-29-2014, 10:32 PM
Every summer, PSD holds a game where GM's re-draft players to see who creates the best team. This year, users from the site had to utilize their skills via draft, trades. At the end of the game, GMs voted on how they believed the regular season of this game would shake up. These are the playoffs of PSD's 2014 NBA Re-Draft

Please take the time to consider each line up, the match-up itself, and vote on which team you believe would win in a seven game series.

Seaside has homecourt advantage


Seaside

PG: Kemba Walker/ Kendall Marshall
SG: Joe Johnson /Rodney Stuckey
SF: Nicolas Batum/ Omri Casspi
PF: Tiago Splitter /Brandon Bass
C: Al Horford /Tyler Zeller

vs

Des Plaines

PG: Tony Parker/Andre Miller
SG: Victor Oladipo/Mike Miller
SF: Rudy Gay/Francisco Garcia
PF: Pau Gasol/Glen Davis
C: Nene/Pero Antic

Redrum187
09-29-2014, 11:13 PM
Really easy win for Seaside. The defense and low post scoring will destroy Des Plaines... not to mention the superior wings.

Ebbs
09-30-2014, 01:24 PM
Kemba - JJ too similar.

Hero players on too low efficiency. I think the veteran savvyness of Desplaines gets them by

BullsNumber1Fan
09-30-2014, 01:25 PM
Kemba - JJ too similar.

Hero players on too low efficiency. I think the veteran savvyness of Desplaines gets them by

^^^

I think you accidentally clicked Seaside then lol

valade16
09-30-2014, 01:47 PM
I'll do a brief write-up here.

Des Plaines has spacing problems. Like BIG problems. Outside of Mike Miller, their only good 3pt shooter is Parker, and he takes 1 three a game. Oladipo is not a good 3 pt shooter and Rudy Gay is a 32.2% the last 4 years...

Additionally, for Ebbs talk about my team having 2 "hero ball" guys, his team suffers from a lack of efficiency to a far greater degree than mine. It seems to be a big secret that Pau Gasol is no longer efficient. His last 2 seasons his TS% is 51.8%. In fact, here is his team's TS%'s:

Mike Miller 61.9%
Parker 55.5%
Andre Miller 53.4%
Nene 53.0%
Gasol 51.8%
Oladipo 51.4%
Davis 49.3%

So his team has no floor spacers and doesn't get efficient shots, yet my team is the one that will struggle with "hero ball"?

Also, his team has 2 players that people would call 'good' defenders, and most wouldn't call them much more than that. Parker, Gay, and Gasol are not good defenders at this point. Mike Miller certainly isn't.

Compare that with my team. The team has a plethora of floor spacers (JJ 40.1 3pt%, Batum 36.1 3pt%, Marshall 39.9% 3pt%, Bass 56.2% 10-16ft), 3 players capable of initiating the offense (Kemba, Batum, Marshall) and + defenders at every position.

My team has efficient scorers and can score from every level (3pt, driving, post up, midrange). To put it in perspective, Joe Johnson, with his hero ball, would be the 3rd most efficient player on their team and nearly as efficient as their #1 scoring option (54.5% TS%).

This will be a tough matchup, but my team should absolutely win. The very idea that my team would lose because we are too inefficient on offense is laughably misguided.

Redrum187
09-30-2014, 02:25 PM
Kemba - JJ too similar.

Hero players on too low efficiency. I think the veteran savvyness of Desplaines gets them by

I agree that Kemba and JJ have some similarities, one of them being they are inefficient at times. Looking at the context, Kemba has Al Jefferson to help offensively, so he is forced to put up points. Horford = Jefferson, but now he has Johnson and Batum to help out offensively, meaning he'd more than likely be, at the very least, slightly more efficient. JJ is great on or off the ball where as Kemba is more of an attacker/dish out passer.

A simple zone would destroy Des Plaines. Who is going to jack up 3's when the defense cheats? Oladipo? Parker? Gay? There is not enough floor spacing to keep defense honest, or enough defense to keep Kemba/Johnson from taking it to the rim.

Redrum187
09-30-2014, 02:28 PM
I'll do a brief write-up here.

Des Plaines has spacing problems. Like BIG problems. Outside of Mike Miller, their only good 3pt shooter is Parker, and he takes 1 three a game. Oladipo is not a good 3 pt shooter and Rudy Gay is a 32.2% the last 4 years...

Additionally, for Ebbs talk about my team having 2 "hero ball" guys, his team suffers from a lack of efficiency to a far greater degree than mine. It seems to be a big secret that Pau Gasol is no longer efficient. His last 2 seasons his TS% is 51.8%. In fact, here is his team's TS%'s:

Mike Miller 61.9%
Parker 55.5%
Andre Miller 53.4%
Nene 53.0%
Gasol 51.8%
Oladipo 51.4%
Davis 49.3%

So his team has no floor spacers and doesn't get efficient shots, yet my team is the one that will struggle with "hero ball"?

Also, his team has 2 players that people would call 'good' defenders, and most wouldn't call them much more than that. Parker, Gay, and Gasol are not good defenders at this point. Mike Miller certainly isn't.

Compare that with my team. The team has a plethora of floor spacers (JJ 40.1 3pt%, Batum 36.1 3pt%, Marshall 39.9% 3pt%, Bass 56.2% 10-16ft), 3 players capable of initiating the offense (Kemba, Batum, Marshall) and + defenders at every position.

My team has efficient scorers and can score from every level (3pt, driving, post up, midrange). To put it in perspective, Joe Johnson, with his hero ball, would be the 3rd most efficient player on their team and nearly as efficient as their #1 scoring option (54.5% TS%).

This will be a tough matchup, but my team should absolutely win. The very idea that my team would lose because we are too inefficient on offense is laughably misguided.

I think Gay is pretty good defensively, but I agree with everything else you wrote. I also didn't realize how inefficient his guys were.

Ebbs
09-30-2014, 04:22 PM
Yea I voted for the wrong guys lol

Redrum187
09-30-2014, 05:51 PM
Yea I voted for the wrong guys lol

Care to respond to the points I brought up? I'm curious your reasoning.

AI
09-30-2014, 06:57 PM
Accidentally voted for the wrong guys, change my vote to Seaside.

mightybosstone
09-30-2014, 08:14 PM
Sorry, Valade, but I'm going with Des Plaines here. You make some good points about them struggling a bit with floor spacing, but I think they're a savvy veteran squad that fits well on paper. For me, the front courts are essentially a wash from SF-C, so it comes down to a back court battle. I like Oladipo on JJ, and I think Parker would just absolutely abuse Walker in a seven-game series.

As old as they are, I love Parker and Pau on paper, and I think Nene showed us all that he still has a lot left in the tank last postseason. I'm never been a fan of Gay, but with solid veteran guys around him who can also score, I think you limit his damage as a chucker. And they've got enough competent perimeter shooters out to 18 feet to make up for their poor overall 3-point shooting, so I don't see floor spacing as quite the issue as you do.

This is a really good matchup that I had to think about for a day, but I think Des Plaines wins it in seven with a monster series from Parker and 1-2 vintage Pau games.

BullsNumber1Fan
09-30-2014, 08:26 PM
Yea I voted for the wrong guys lol


Accidentally voted for the wrong guys, change my vote to Seaside.

So it's still 7-6 with Des Plaines leading with both votes switched.

phlp_bj
09-30-2014, 09:03 PM
Sorry, Valade, but I'm going with Des Plaines here. You make some good points about them struggling a bit with floor spacing, but I think they're a savvy veteran squad that fits well on paper. For me, the front courts are essentially a wash from SF-C, so it comes down to a back court battle. I like Oladipo on JJ, and I think Parker would just absolutely abuse Walker in a seven-game series.

As old as they are, I love Parker and Pau on paper, and I think Nene showed us all that he still has a lot left in the tank last postseason. I'm never been a fan of Gay, but with solid veteran guys around him who can also score, I think you limit his damage as a chucker. And they've got enough competent perimeter shooters out to 18 feet to make up for their poor overall 3-point shooting, so I don't see floor spacing as quite the issue as you do.

This is a really good matchup that I had to think about for a day, but I think Des Plaines wins it in seven with a monster series from Parker and 1-2 vintage Pau games.

Been too busy with school to do an actual writeup for this one (Screw the quarter system), but I do feel like our veteran leadership and experience will be the key in this series as well. Don't get me wrong, I love the players on Seaside, but that back-court can be stopped because of similar playing styles, as someone already mentioned. Oladipo is a hawk on the ball. He will stick with JJ and honestly, JJ isn't all that great on defense either. Oladipo can easily find ways to score on JJ as well if needed. Parker and Kemba is actually a bigger difference than people think. If Parker can hang with guys like Curry and Paul, I can easily see Parker outshining Kemba in this series.

Our big thing is the pick and pop. Pau can definitely play the offensive role that Duncan plays for the Spurs. It's pretty evident that Pau hasn't lost a step in his offensive game, which can be seen from his FIBA play. Last year, being on a team with literally nobody, anyone would've had a bad year, but I bet you'll see Pau shine on the Bulls this year, where he has a solid point guard and supporting cast around him, which is the same on this team as well.

It will be a close series. I'm not saying we'll win in 4 games, but I definitely think we can win this series in 6-7 games because of our veteran experience and leadership as well as POSTSEASON experience.

valade16
10-01-2014, 09:39 AM
Sorry, Valade, but I'm going with Des Plaines here. You make some good points about them struggling a bit with floor spacing, but I think they're a savvy veteran squad that fits well on paper. For me, the front courts are essentially a wash from SF-C, so it comes down to a back court battle. I like Oladipo on JJ, and I think Parker would just absolutely abuse Walker in a seven-game series.

As old as they are, I love Parker and Pau on paper, and I think Nene showed us all that he still has a lot left in the tank last postseason. I'm never been a fan of Gay, but with solid veteran guys around him who can also score, I think you limit his damage as a chucker. And they've got enough competent perimeter shooters out to 18 feet to make up for their poor overall 3-point shooting, so I don't see floor spacing as quite the issue as you do.

This is a really good matchup that I had to think about for a day, but I think Des Plaines wins it in seven with a monster series from Parker and 1-2 vintage Pau games.

No worries. You make some good points. As the game gets into the more intense moments I would switch Batum and have him guard Parker. His size and long reach would be very problematic for Parker and would also help in going around screens. Kemba can guard Oladipo well enough and I'm not worried about Oladipo taking advantage of the size advantage to the point where he takes over the series.

Also, they have good midrange shooters, but that's all they have. Their entire offense is mid-range shooting, which I've been told every other hour on here is the worst % shot in the game. If they plan to beat us with the mid-range, I think I'll take those odds.

Gasol and Nene still have something left in the tank, it's just inefficient fuel at this point. The only way they truly have a shot at beating me considering their inefficiency is if they get a drastically higher amount of possessions, and considering their rebounding I don't think they would get the possessions necessary to beat me.

RBD%
Gasol 16.4%
Nene 10.9%
Gay 9.8%

Splitter 16.1%
Horford 14.8%
Batum 11.1%

But really, the biggest misconception of this series is that Pau Gasol is somehow still a high quality #2 option on a team. He isn't anymore. People are only looking at his name and not at his production.

Pau Gasol's Ortg last 4 seasons:

2011: 123
2012: 112
2013: 107
2014: 102

That's his second best player. A guy who is nowhere near the ability he was at in his prime. His team just doesn't have what it takes to beat mine.

BullsNumber1Fan
10-01-2014, 01:33 PM
No worries. You make some good points. As the game gets into the more intense moments I would switch Batum and have him guard Parker. His size and long reach would be very problematic for Parker and would also help in going around screens. Kemba can guard Oladipo well enough and I'm not worried about Oladipo taking advantage of the size advantage to the point where he takes over the series.

Also, they have good midrange shooters, but that's all they have. Their entire offense is mid-range shooting, which I've been told every other hour on here is the worst % shot in the game. If they plan to beat us with the mid-range, I think I'll take those odds.

Gasol and Nene still have something left in the tank, it's just inefficient fuel at this point. The only way they truly have a shot at beating me considering their inefficiency is if they get a drastically higher amount of possessions, and considering their rebounding I don't think they would get the possessions necessary to beat me.

RBD%
Gasol 16.4%
Nene 10.9%
Gay 9.8%

Splitter 16.1%
Horford 14.8%
Batum 11.1%

But really, the biggest misconception of this series is that Pau Gasol is somehow still a high quality #2 option on a team. He isn't anymore. People are only looking at his name and not at his production.

Pau Gasol's Ortg last 4 seasons:

2011: 123
2012: 112
2013: 107
2014: 102

That's his second best player. A guy who is nowhere near the ability he was at in his prime. His team just doesn't have what it takes to beat mine.

The only thing I really have to say is that ORTG is quite possibly the worst offensive stat you can use. It's mainly just a team stat.

Pau last season averaged 17/10/3.5 with a 52.5 TS% and a 19.3 PER. And he was the only threat on that Lakers team, so it brought down his efficiency with defenses focused to stop him. He's still a fine #2 option especially with all the help he'd have on this team.

TheGame
10-01-2014, 01:47 PM
Pretty good second team Des plaines. Although rudy gay actually makes a team worse. This has been proven three differents times.

valade16
10-01-2014, 02:33 PM
The only thing I really have to say is that ORTG is quite possibly the worst offensive stat you can use. It's mainly just a team stat.

Pau last season averaged 17/10/3.5 with a 52.5 TS% and a 19.3 PER. And he was the only threat on that Lakers team, so it brought down his efficiency with defenses focused to stop him. He's still a fine #2 option especially with all the help he'd have on this team.

You act like 52.5% TS% is good; that's not very good (and it was actually 52.2%).

But less see what happened the year before when he was 2nd option to Kobe? His USG rate was lower (26 vs 20) and his TS% was actually worse. 51.2% TS%.

So we have statistical evidence that Gasol would not be efficient even as a #2 option at this stage in his career.

Do you have anything to support your viewpoint other than "opinion"?

TheGame
10-01-2014, 02:42 PM
You act like 52.5% TS% is good; that's not very good (and it was actually 52.2%).

But less see what happened the year before when he was 2nd option to Kobe? His USG rate was lower (26 vs 20) and his TS% was actually worse. 51.2% TS%.

So we have statistical evidence that Gasol would not be efficient even as a #2 option at this stage in his career.

Do you have anything to support your viewpoint other than "opinion"?

You do know he shot 51% REAL PERCENTAGE which is consistent and not hoping for some threes to finally drop for the TS% bs. That' not consistent. A post player is 52% rain or shine everyday. A bad game they shoot 52%. Now a bad game for a three point shooter and it's game over your team has NO chance of winning as they go 0-10 shooting. What's that TS% bs.

Gasol shot 52% with a coach and number one option player that hated him. That's pretty impressive to average 16, 10, 4, 51% with a coach that is devising a game plan to make you look worse and a ball hog chucker named kobe that hates him.

valade16
10-01-2014, 04:13 PM
You do know he shot 51% REAL PERCENTAGE which is consistent and not hoping for some threes to finally drop for the TS% bs. That' not consistent. A post player is 52% rain or shine everyday. A bad game they shoot 52%. Now a bad game for a three point shooter and it's game over your team has NO chance of winning as they go 0-10 shooting. What's that TS% bs.

Gasol shot 52% with a coach and number one option player that hated him. That's pretty impressive to average 16, 10, 4, 51% with a coach that is devising a game plan to make you look worse and a ball hog chucker named kobe that hates him.

1). It sounds like you don't know what True Shooting % is.

2). Where are you getting this 51/52% #?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html

His % was 48.0%. The year prior he was 46.6%. Oh, and his FT% dropped from 78-80% to 70-74% the last 2 years.

Simply put, he is no longer the efficient scorer he was in his prime.

Apparently in this game I should have drafted

Manu / Kobe / Pau / Duncan because people seem to be voting based on what these players did 4 years ago...

Redrum187
10-01-2014, 04:48 PM
1). It sounds like you don't know what True Shooting % is.

2). Where are you getting this 51/52% #?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html

His % was 48.0%. The year prior he was 46.6%. Oh, and his FT% dropped from 78-80% to 70-74% the last 2 years.

Simply put, he is no longer the efficient scorer he was in his prime.

Apparently in this game I should have drafted

Manu / Kobe / Pau / Duncan because people seem to be voting based on what these players did 4 years ago...

One could only dream of having a Kobe/Duncan duo on redraft! They will win 100 out of 100 times! :D:D:D

TheGame
10-01-2014, 04:58 PM
real in game action percentage is very important because it controls pace. So if someone shoots a FG% of 42% but a TS% of 55%. They are still a 42% shooter and in the games there is a 58% chance the opponents rebound and run the other way for an easy fast break.
I know what TS% is and it's not true, there is nothing true about it. A better stat would be points per FG attempt with the FG that a player takes when fouled even added in.

As for Gasol, I tend to already know all the players Career FG% and don't recheck to save time.
I was right he shoots 52% for his career. Also last season is a throw away season I already said, because Kobe and Dantoni were trying to make him look bad. Pretty impressive he shot 48% last season with a coach that hates him. 47% the year before with both a coach and ball hog that don't like him.

valade16
10-01-2014, 05:18 PM
real in game action percentage is very important because it controls pace. So if someone shoots a FG% of 42% but a TS% of 55%. They are still a 42% shooter and in the games there is a 58% chance the opponents rebound and run the other way for an easy fast break.
I know what TS% is and it's not true, there is nothing true about it. A better stat would be points per FG attempt with the FG that a player takes when fouled even added in.

As for Gasol, I tend to already know all the players Career FG% and don't recheck to save time.
I was right he shoots 52% for his career. Also last season is a throw away season I already said, because Kobe and Dantoni were trying to make him look bad. Pretty impressive he shot 48% last season with a coach that hates him. 47% the year before with both a coach and ball hog that don't like him.

So that point works in favor of his team but when I use the rebounding rates to argue the same thing it doesn't work in mine? My team rebounds better than his, so we are more likely to get the easy fast breaks (or at least extra possessions). Additionally, if we use just regular FG%, my team is just as efficient:

Nene 50.3%
Parker 49.9%
Pau 48.0%
Gay 45.5%
Oladipo 41.9%

Horford 56.7%
Splitter 52.3%
Batum 46.5%
Johnson 45.4%
Walker 39.3%

So there doesn't seem like there's going to be a huge discrepancy in the number of missed shots either team will have however my team will be more likely to grab the rebounds and my team is putting up similar raw FG%s as his but taking to his 14.5 3PT/A to his 6.5 3PT/A. Mike Miller can't make up that glaring discrepancy...

So my team makes shots at just a good a rate FG% wise, but sees those buckets translate to more points due to our higher 3pt shots leading to way higher TS%'s and is more likely to grab the rebounds should any of the shots miss.

Yet somehow his team is going to score more and mroe efficiently than mine? Color me skeptical. Also, we haven't addressed how much better my team is in terms of interior defense.

Horford and Splitter allow 48.8% and 44.7% to his 54.8% (Pau) and 56.0% (Nene).

Other than name value of Parker and Pau, what specific thing is his team even doing better, as a team, than mine?

TheGame
10-01-2014, 05:38 PM
Johnson is a weakness. This is a guy that plays very little defense and doesn't rebound at all and never passes. He doesn't run the breaks, or lead breaks. He also shoots a very low %.

on the other side, No team will ever amount to anything with a guy named rudy gay on it.

valade16
10-01-2014, 06:18 PM
Johnson is a weakness. This is a guy that plays very little defense and doesn't rebound at all and never passes. He doesn't run the breaks, or lead breaks. He also shoots a very low %.

on the other side, No team will ever amount to anything with a guy named rudy gay on it.

Shoots low %'s?

45.4% FG
40.1% 3PT (on 5.1 Att)
56.4% TS%

If those are low then his team's are all subterranean.

KnicksorBust
10-02-2014, 12:51 PM
I said this in the last thread but I really am not a fan of the Parker-Oladipo-Gay trio. They do not compliment each other's game at all. I like Seaside here.

TO Rapz
10-05-2014, 10:49 AM
:pity: