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WaDe03
09-28-2014, 10:31 AM
I know we had the player ranking polls but I would like to know everyone's predictions on the top 5 best players at each position for next season.

Mine would be....

PG:
1. CP3
2. Westbrook
3. Curry
4. Parker
5. Rose

SG:
1. Wade
2. Kobe
3. Harden
4. Derozan
5. Klay

SF:
1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Melo
4. Kawhi
5. Deng

PF:
1. Love
2. Griffin
3. Davis
4. Aldridge
5. Duncan
Hurt me to leave off Dirk but I think he will take somewhat of a step back this year with his team improving so much.

C:
1: Howard
2: Bosh
3: Noah
4: M. Gasol
5: Jefferson
Lopez and Cousins could've made my list but I'm not sure how Lopez will come back and I don't like Cousins attitude.

jaydubb
09-28-2014, 10:34 AM
And the wade vs kobe vs harden debate begins.... NOW! :)

DanG
09-28-2014, 11:07 AM
PG:
1. Paul
2. Curry
3. Westbrook
4. Rose (?) (21-5-8 on 42%)
5. Parker

SG:
This is tough... I like Kobe & Wade, but if Harden plays defense he is the best SG.
1. Kobe (?) (23-5-6 on 44%) HOOOOOMEEEER
2. Wade (?) (20-5-6 on 47%)
3. Har(d)en
4. Lance
5. Derozan


SF:
1. Durant (MVP/FMVP season)
2. LeBron
3. Carmelo
4. Kawhi
5. Parsons

PF:
1. Davis
2. Griffin
3. Love
4. Aldridge
5. Dirk/Duncan

C:
1: Howard
2. ?????

Goose17
09-28-2014, 11:15 AM
Difficult to predict accurately but...

PG;
1. CP3
2. Curry
3. Parker
4 & 5 - Lillard, Dragic, Wall or Rose ...LOL I told you it was difficult. Rose if healthy could be one to watch. Top 3 if he's like his MVP days.

SG;
1. Harden
2. DeRozan
3. Wade
4. Thompson
5. Stephenson


SF;
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Leonard
4. Iguodala
5. Batum

PF;
1. Griffin
2. Davis
3. LMA
4. Duncan
5. Bosh

C;
1. Noah
2. Dwight
3. Jefferson
4. Gasol
5. Cousins


My opinions and my opinions alone.

KnicksorBust
09-28-2014, 11:25 AM
Dirk is getting abused here. He might still be #1.

da ThRONe
09-28-2014, 12:01 PM
PG's
1. Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Curry
4. Rose
5. Parker/Irving

SG's
1. Harden
2. Wade
3. Bryant
4. Stevenson
5. Beal/Thompson

SF's
1. James
2. Durant
3. Leonard
4. Anthony
5. Iguodala/DeRozan

PF's
1. Griffin(has some how managed to become very underrated)
2. Aldridge
3. Love
4. Ibaka(perhaps the most underrated player in basketball in Durant's and Westbrook's shadows)
5. Nowitzki

C's
1. Howard
2. Bosh
3. Cousins
4. Drummond
5. Noah/Gasol/Duncan

mightybosstone
09-28-2014, 12:14 PM
PG
1. Chris Paul
2. Stephen Curry
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Goran Dragic
5. Damian Lillard
HM: Kyle Lowry

SG
1. James Harden
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Bradley Beal
5. DeMar Derozan
HM: Klay Thompson

SF
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Jabari Parker
HM: Chandler Parsons

PF
1. Kevin Love
2. Blake Griffin
3. Anthony Davis
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Tim Duncan
HM: LaMarcus Aldridge

C
1. Dwight Howard
2. Joakim Noah
3. Marc Gasol
4. Al Jefferson
5. DeMarcus Cousins
HM: Andre Drummond

Dade County
09-28-2014, 01:01 PM
PG:
WestBrook
Rose
Curry
Cp3
kyrie (he's going to shine with Lbj & Love)

SG:
Dragic (production wise, not pts per game wise)
Harden (if he plays better D, can go to number 1)
Wade (If healthy all year, will be number 1)
Lance
Kobe


SF:
Lbj
KD
Melo
Leonard
Jeff Green

PF:
Griffin (breakout year)
Aldridge
Love
Davis
Dirk

Center:
Howard
Marc Gasol (contract year)
Bosh (I consider him a PF, but whatever)
Noah
Cousins/ Lopez/ Drummond

Captain Moroni
09-28-2014, 01:13 PM
Depends on what people are looking for from the center position....noah would be my number one for creating a winning formula. Howard number one? Nah.

abe_froman
09-28-2014, 01:18 PM
pg:
paul
rose(homer pick)
rw
curry
lillard

sg
harden
kobe
wade
dragic
derozen

sf:
lebron/kd
melo
leonard
parsons

pf:
davis
griffin
love
dirk
lma

c:
howard
noah
gasol
jefferson
horford/dmc

phantasyyy
09-28-2014, 01:23 PM
PG:
1. CP3
2. Westbrook
3. Curry
4. Parker
5. Lowry or Lillard (rose could be slotted 3-5 depending on how he returns from injury)

SG:
1. Kobe --> the black mamba will be back..
2. Wade --> he'll have a resurgence and prove that he isn't so washed up now being in his most natural position as the primary ball handler
3. Harden
4. Derozan
5. Lance/Klay --> Lance if you need a primary piece, Klay if you need a secondary

SF:
1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Melo
4. Kawhi
5. Gay - contract year, and building on his most efficient season w/ the Kings, I think we'll see a beastly Gay

PF:
1. Davis
2. Griffin
3. Bosh
4. Love
5. Aldridge

C:
1: Marc Gasol
2: Howard
3: Noah
4: Duncan
5: Cousins

OaklandsFinest
09-28-2014, 01:27 PM
PG
1- Westbrook
2- CP3
3- Curry
4- D. Williams (if healthy)
5- Rose (looks explosive against the serbias of the world but hes not back)

SG
1- Wade
2- Harden
3- Klay
4- Kobe
5- Derozan

SF
1- Lebron
2- Melo (monster season coming)
3- Durant (don't like his offseason)
4- Kawaii
5- Terrence Ross

PF
1- Ibaka
2- Blake
3- Davis
4- Dirk
5- Love

C
1- Howard
2- Bosh
3- M Gasol
4- Noah
5- Drummond

mightybosstone
09-28-2014, 05:12 PM
Difficult to predict accurately but...

PG;
1. CP3
2. Curry
3. Parker
4 & 5 - Lillard, Dragic, Wall or Rose ...LOL I told you it was difficult. Rose if healthy could be one to watch. Top 3 if he's like his MVP days.

SF
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Leonard
4. Melo
5. Iguodala/Batum

My opinions and my opinions alone.
No Westbrook in the top five? That's a pretty bold statement, dude. And I don't buy Leonard as a better player than Melo. He's certainly better defensively, but Melo is by far the more valuable player. Unless Leonard makes a huge leap forward offensively, he's not close to surpassing Melo. I'd like to see you justify those two rankings.


Dirk is getting abused here. He might still be #1.
Dirk is still a phenomenal player and is absolutely deserving of being ranked in the top five, but I don't see how he's better than Love or Griffin at this point in his career. And if Davis makes any kind of improvement offensively, I'd take him over Dirk as well.

chi-townlove1
09-28-2014, 05:54 PM
Difficult to predict accurately but...

PG;
1. CP3
2. Curry
3. Parker
4 & 5 - Lillard, Dragic, Wall or Rose ...LOL I told you it was difficult. Rose if healthy could be one to watch. Top 3 if he's like his MVP days.

SF
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Leonard
4. Melo
5. Iguodala/Batum

My opinions and my opinions alone.
No Westbrook in the top five? That's a pretty bold statement, dude. And I don't buy Leonard as a better player than Melo. He's certainly better defensively, but Melo is by far the more valuable player. Unless Leonard makes a huge leap forward offensively, he's not close to surpassing Melo. I'd like to see you justify those two rankings.


Dirk is getting abused here. He might still be #1.
Dirk is still a phenomenal player and is absolutely deserving of being ranked in the top five, but I don't see how he's better than Love or Griffin at this point in his career. And if Davis makes any kind of improvement offensively, I'd take him over Dirk as well.

I'm sure he justifies the melo and leonard thing by basically saying that the difference between carmelo and Leonard's offense is the same as the difference between Leonard's and Carmelo's defense... Which is totally true. So whichever you value more, I guess can identify which player you think will be better.

YAALREADYKNO
09-28-2014, 06:08 PM
Pg:
Chris Paul
Russell Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Tony Parker
Derrick Rose

SG:
Kobe Bryant
James Harden
Dwayne Wade
Klay Thompson
Demar Derozan

SF:
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Carmelo Anthony
Kawai Leonard
Luol Deng

PF:
Anthony Davis
Kevin Love
Lamarcus Aldridge
Blake Griffin
Dirk Nowitzki

C:
Al Jefferson
Dwight Howard
Demarcus Cousins
Joakim Noah
Marc Gasol

Goose17
09-28-2014, 07:01 PM
I'm sure he justifies the melo and leonard thing by basically saying that the difference between carmelo and Leonard's offense is the same as the difference between Leonard's and Carmelo's defense... Which is totally true. So whichever you value more, I guess can identify which player you think will be better.

Did my job for me^

Also he's the better team mate.

I mean there's that plus the fact we are PREDICTING the future top 5 for this upcoming season. Leonard is only going to get better moving forward. Melo has peaked.


As for Westbrook... honestly I just completely forgot about him. In saying that though I do think he's overrated on PSD. Short tempered, prone to poor decision making and a very streaky shooter. He also shoots the gap too much for my liking on defense. Ibaka cleans up a lot of his mistakes on that end.

In terms of raw talent he's probably top 5 but taking into account everything else and again the fact that this just a prediction, there is no right or wrong. I'll stick with what I've got.

FlashBolt
09-28-2014, 07:07 PM
PG:
1) CP3
2) Stephen Curry
3) Kyrie Irving
4) Westbrook
5) Lillard

SG:
1) Dwyane Wade
2) Kobe Bryant
3) James Harden
4) DeMar Derozan
5) Lance Stephenson

SF:
1) LeBron
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo
4) Parsons
5) Leonard

PF:
1) Kevin Love
2) Anthony Davis
3) Blake Griffin
4) Chris Bosh
5) LaMarcus Aldridge

C:
1) Dwight Howard
2) DeMarcus Cousins
3) Joakim Noah
4) Brook Lopez
5) Marc Gasol


Idk why people think so highly of Drummond. He can rebound but he's not close to top 5. And Leonard over Melo is simply laughable... Put Melo on the Spurs and his defense would look pretty good along with their team record. Let's see Leonard carry J.R. Smith.. Enough said. Judge a player by the same conditions of another before you put Leonard over Melo. Utter disrespect.

mightybosstone
09-28-2014, 08:13 PM
I'm sure he justifies the melo and leonard thing by basically saying that the difference between carmelo and Leonard's offense is the same as the difference between Leonard's and Carmelo's defense... Which is totally true. So whichever you value more, I guess can identify which player you think will be better.

Did my job for me^
Sorry, but that's an absolute horrible justification. Based on that same logic, the difference between Harden and Tony Allen's offense is equal to the different between their defense, therefore they're equal as players. See why that's ridiculous? Offense will always be at a greater premium than defense, especially at PG, SG and SF, where defense isn't nearly as valuable as it is at the two big men positions.

If you were starting a team from scratch today and you were trying to build a team to win a title this season, you would not take Kawhi Leonard over Carmelo Anthony. And if you did, you'd be a ****ing idiot.


Also he's the better team mate.
So what? Being a great teammate doesn't point points on the board. I loved Shane Battier with a passion during his time in Houston and he was an incredible teammate. But I sure as hell don't think he was a better player than Tracy McGrady just because he played better defense and was a better teammate. That's asinine.


I mean there's that plus the fact we are PREDICTING the future top 5 for this upcoming season. Leonard is only going to get better moving forward. Melo has peaked.
Yes, and Melo's peak is far, far greater than Leonard is ever likely to become.


As for Westbrook... honestly I just completely forgot about him. In saying that though I do think he's overrated on PSD. Short tempered, prone to poor decision making and a very streaky shooter. He also shoots the gap too much for my liking on defense. Ibaka cleans up a lot of his mistakes on that end.
...and he's still unquestionably one of the three best point guards in the league with Paul and Curry.


In terms of raw talent he's probably top 5 but taking into account everything else and again the fact that this just a prediction, there is no right or wrong. I'll stick with what I've got.
:laugh: Did you try to qualify Russell Westbrook's talent by saying he's "probably top 5?" I dare you to make a legitimate argument for any other PG in the league other than Paul or Curry being better than Westbrook. It's impossible to make a sane argument that he's anything other than top 3.

True Sports Fan
09-28-2014, 08:37 PM
PG:
CP3
Curry
TP
Westbrook
Lillard

SG:
Harden
DeRozan
Wade
Stephenson
Kobe
(SG is so damn weak)

SF:
LBJ
Melo
Gay
Leonard
Iggy

PF:
Griffin
LMA
Love
Duncan
Dirk

C:
Dwight
Cousins
Noah
Gasol
Lopez (If healthy)

Lakers + Giants
09-28-2014, 09:05 PM
PG:
Westbrook
CP3
Curry
Parker
Dragic

SG:
Harden
Wade
Derozan
Thompson
Beal

Yes, no kobe, I think hes completely done... :(

SF:
Lebron
Durant
Melo
Kawhi
Parsons

PF:
Love
Griffin
Duncan
Dirk
Gasol

C:
Dwight
Noah
Cousins
Gasol
Drummond

Redrum187
09-28-2014, 09:12 PM
I know we had the player ranking polls but I would like to know everyone's predictions on the top 5 best players at each position for next season.

Mine would be....

PG:
1. CP3
2. Westbrook
3. Curry
4. Parker
5. Rose

SG:
1. Wade
2. Kobe
3. Harden
4. Derozan
5. Klay

SF:
1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Melo
4. Kawhi
5. Deng

PF:
1. Love
2. Griffin
3. Davis
4. Aldridge
5. Duncan
Hurt me to leave off Dirk but I think he will take somewhat of a step back this year with his team improving so much.

C:
1: Howard
2: Bosh
3: Noah
4: M. Gasol
5: Jefferson
Lopez and Cousins could've made my list but I'm not sure how Lopez will come back and I don't like Cousins attitude.

With 3 top 5 players, the Miami Heat should be a lock for the Finals. Do you genuinely think all 3 are top 5 at their positions?

Redrum187
09-28-2014, 09:23 PM
PG
1.) Chris Paul
2.) Stephen Curry
3.) Russell Westbrook
4.) Tony Parker
5.) John Wall

SG
1.) Kobe Bryant
2.) James Harden
3.) Dwyane Wade
4.) Klay Thompson
5.) Lance Stephenson (I hate Demar Derozan's game... too inefficient and no D)

SF
1.) LeBron James
2.) Kevin Durant
3.) Carmelo Anthony
4.) Nicholas Batum
5.) Kawhi Leonard (he's awesome, but I think Batum is slightly better)

PF
1.) Anthony Davis
2.) Dirk Nowitzki
3.) Tim Duncan
4.) Kevin Love
5.) Blake Griffin

C
1.) Dwight Howard
2.) Joakim Noah
3.) Al Jefferson
4.) Demarcus Cousins
5.) Al Horford

Kaner
09-28-2014, 09:41 PM
Pg:
CP3
Curry
Westbrook
Lillard
Rose probably gonna take him half the season but if healthy he'll get up to 4th I think

sg:
Harden
Kobe
Dragic
Wade
Stephenson


sf:
Durant
Lebron
Carmelo
Parsons
Leonard


pf:
Anthony Davis
Blake Griffin
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Love
Chris Bosh

C:
Marc Gasol
Dwight Howard
Joakim Noah
Al Jefferson
Demarcus Cousins


edit: When did Klay thompson become so overrated?!

benzni
09-29-2014, 12:51 AM
PG:
Chris Paul
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
John Wall
Damien Lillard
*Honorable mention Kyle Lowry/Kyrie Irving

SG:
James Harden
Demar Derozan
Bradley Beal ----Kid is getting no love here
Kobe Bryant
Goran Dragic
*HM Dwyane Wade

SF:
Kevin Durant
LeBron James
Carmelo Anthony
Kawai Leonard
Nicolas Batum
*HM Andrew Wiggins

PF:
Anthony Davis
Kevin Love
Blake Griffin
Dirk Nowitzki
Lamarcus Aldridge
*HM Serge Ibaka

C:
Dwight Howard
Marc Gasol
Demarcus Cousins
Joakim Noah
Al Jefferson
*HM Chris Bosh

Allphakenny1
09-29-2014, 01:20 AM
edit: When did Klay thompson become so overrated?!

Well he was already the 6th best SG in the league last year and had a great off season with team USA. Moving into the top 5 is not that big of a stretch!

Raps18-19 Champ
09-29-2014, 01:51 AM
C- Noah, Howard, Cousins, Drummond, Horford
PF-Davis, Love, Griffin, Bosh, Dirk
SF- Lebron, Durant, Carmelo, Jabari, Kawhi
SG- Harden, Wade, Kobe, Derozan, Klay
PG- CP3, Westbrook, Curry, Lillard, Parker

Goose17
09-29-2014, 02:27 AM
Offense will always be at a greater premium than defense, especially at PG, SG and SF, where defense isn't nearly as valuable as it is at the two big men positions.

If you were starting a team from scratch today and you were trying to build a team to win a title this season, you would not take Kawhi Leonard over Carmelo Anthony. And if you did, you'd be a ****ing idiot.


So what? Being a great teammate doesn't point points on the board. I loved Shane Battier with a passion during his time in Houston and he was an incredible teammate. But I sure as hell don't think he was a better player than Tracy McGrady just because he played better defense and was a better teammate. That's asinine.


Yes, and Melo's peak is far, far greater than Leonard is ever likely to become.

.

I disagree with everything you said. First of all there's no way you can possibly know that Kawhi won't be a better player than Melo (especially considering he might already be better than Melo). If that's what you believe then fine but don't state it as if its a fact.

Secondly being a "better team mate" means more about Melo than it does about Leonard. Melo will never find success as he's too self centered. That inability to trust team mates is a big flaw and does effect him as a player. I don't care how talented you are, if you're not willing to play as part of a team then you're not a good player. End of.

As for offense being at a greater premium... If you mean in terms of offensive players being paid more and stuff then sure. But give me an elite defensive wing over an elite scoring wing every day. Iguodala > Melo. (I've edited my list to reflect this, got to remember the list was just off the top of my head)

On top of that Melos offense isn't that great anyway, he's a borderline chucker and horribly inefficient in a lot of areas. Melos offense is not comparable to Kawhis defense. You would be better comparing Kawhis defense to KDs offense.

Kawhi, elite defender, decent scorer
Melo, great but not elite scorer, horrible defender.

I know who I want.

Scoring more points than another individual doesn't make you the better player.



Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Goose17
09-29-2014, 02:31 AM
In fact. I'm removing Melo from my top 5 altogether.

dalton749
09-29-2014, 02:47 AM
SG
1.) Kobe Bryant
2.) James Harden
3.) Dwyane Wade
4.) Klay Thompson
5.) Lance Stephenson (I hate Demar Derozan's game... too inefficient and no D)



It's hard to make that argument when you have Kobe at 1, who will likely have a lower efficiency, and worse d than derozan next year.
And their games are pretty similar lol

Goose17
09-29-2014, 03:21 AM
It's hard to make that argument when you have Kobe at 1, who will likely have a lower efficiency, and worse d than derozan next year.
And their games are pretty similar lol

Can't really make the defense argument when he has Harden at #2 either... or can he?

canefandynasty
09-29-2014, 07:40 AM
SGs only:
Wade
Kobe
Harden
DeRozen
Beal

Kaner
09-29-2014, 12:42 PM
Well he was already the 6th best SG in the league last year and had a great off season with team USA. Moving into the top 5 is not that big of a stretch!

That was with no Kobe so he'd have been 7th. He's a really good 3&D guy but that's it and he's been that player since he's been in the league with no great improvement since his rookie year. Stephenson was voted 5th with a skillset that has alot more room to grow then Thompson and going to a new team where he could have a bigger role. Derozan was voted 4th and of the 3 has easily the most room to improve next season.

Putting Thompson on your list is fine but if people think he's a consensus top 5 sg then he's being overrated.

FlashBolt
09-29-2014, 01:30 PM
How the hell is Kawhi better than Melo? Is this a joke or are we basing this off imaginary numbers

Goose17
09-29-2014, 02:30 PM
How the hell is Kawhi better than Melo? Is this a joke or are we basing this off imaginary numbers

Which numbers? Scoring?


Again, these are predictions, there is no right or wrong, there's no way of knowing for sure. It's not about who was better but who you think will be better.

WaDe03
09-29-2014, 02:46 PM
With 3 top 5 players, the Miami Heat should be a lock for the Finals. Do you genuinely think all 3 are top 5 at their positions?

Yea. I think Wade will be the best SG in the league again, I'm expecting a big year from Bosh as well in terms of more scoring and rebounding.

As for Deng it may be a homer pick but I think he was just put into a bad situation last year after being traded and could bounce back this year. I don't think it's crazy to say he could be better than a Batum or Parsons.

Goose17
09-29-2014, 03:00 PM
As for Deng it may be a homer pick but I think he was just put into a bad situation last year after being traded and could bounce back this year. I don't think it's crazy to say he could be better than a Batum or Parsons.

Deng is better than Parsons, always has been (aside from last year) and I agree on your evaluation of his situation last year. He's better than that.

I disagree about Wade though, I think he's going to struggle through big stretches of the year with just the occasional flash of greatness. Everyone has an opinion I suppose, time will tell. I hope I'm wrong, always liked Wade.

WaDe03
09-29-2014, 04:02 PM
Deng is better than Parsons, always has been (aside from last year) and I agree on your evaluation of his situation last year. He's better than that.

I disagree about Wade though, I think he's going to struggle through big stretches of the year with just the occasional flash of greatness. Everyone has an opinion I suppose, time will tell. I hope I'm wrong, always liked Wade.

Exactly I think Deng will be top 5.

As for Wade I hope your wrong too lol. He recently said he wants to play all 82 games and be the leader and reporters say he looks like he's lost 15 pounds maybe even more but well have to wait and see.

Redrum187
09-29-2014, 04:19 PM
It's hard to make that argument when you have Kobe at 1, who will likely have a lower efficiency, and worse d than derozan next year.
And their games are pretty similar lol

You have a fair point, but Kobe was incredibly efficient the last full season he played. Also, Kobe's defense is not what it use to be, but it is still several notches better than Derozan's. I think Derozan is one of the worst efficient volume scorers in the league.

I also don't see that much of a comparison between Kobe and Derozan's game.

Kobe is a superior rebounder, passer, defender, scorer, clutch player, and shooter (neither are great from 3 but Derozan is God awful). Aside from last season, Derozan has never averaged more than 2.5 assists per game. He is a one-dimensional inefficient volume scorer.

Redrum187
09-29-2014, 04:20 PM
Can't really make the defense argument when he has Harden at #2 either... or can he?

I'm not a fan of Harden's all around game, but I think his offensive work trumps his defensive efficiency. I just try to be objective. :P

chi-townlove1
09-29-2014, 04:21 PM
My god heat fans are still at it. Give it up guys. Wade is DONE. though I am excited to see what bosh does as the go to guy now. And as for deng, he was "god awful when he was a bull - a product of thibs defense and an inefficient scorer." Now he's the second coming of Lebron? Just stop guys.

Redrum187
09-29-2014, 04:27 PM
My god heat fans are still at it. Give it up guys. Wade is DONE. though I am excited to see what bosh does as the go to guy now. And as for deng, he was "god awful when he was a bull - a product of thibs defense and an inefficient scorer." Now he's the second coming of Lebron? Just stop guys.

I don't think Wade is done. Will he average 25/5/7? Probably not. But I could envision him being a 20/4/5 guy with no outside shot but above-average defense. That is really good in my opinion.

WaDe03
09-29-2014, 04:34 PM
My god heat fans are still at it. Give it up guys. Wade is DONE. though I am excited to see what bosh does as the go to guy now. And as for deng, he was "god awful when he was a bull - a product of thibs defense and an inefficient scorer." Now he's the second coming of Lebron? Just stop guys.

Well see this year I bet Wade is better than Rose this year too he looked terrible this summer. Rose is DONE he may play 30 games this year so congrats on that.

No one said Deng was the next LeBron lol. It's not crazy to think he will be a top 5 SF.

Don't be so sour towards Heat fans it's not our fault the Bulls can never get past the Heat in the playoffs.

naps
09-29-2014, 05:09 PM
Wade is DONE.

What do mean? I don't remember Wade being cleared to play by medical staff and still didn't show up for his team for 2+ years. Wade plays through injuries and still puts up great numbers. He was never overrated, nor was he a one season wonder and done.


And as for deng, he was "god awful when he was a bull - a product of thibs defense and an inefficient scorer."

So when Deng was a Bull, he was an all-star and the best defensive stopper in the league but now he was just a Thibs product? OK.

Jamiecballer
09-29-2014, 05:19 PM
Sorry, but that's an absolute horrible justification. Based on that same logic, the difference between Harden and Tony Allen's offense is equal to the different between their defense, therefore they're equal as players. See why that's ridiculous? Offense will always be at a greater premium than defense, especially at PG, SG and SF, where defense isn't nearly as valuable as it is at the two big men positions.

If you were starting a team from scratch today and you were trying to build a team to win a title this season, you would not take Kawhi Leonard over Carmelo Anthony. And if you did, you'd be a ****ing idiot.


So what? Being a great teammate doesn't point points on the board. I loved Shane Battier with a passion during his time in Houston and he was an incredible teammate. But I sure as hell don't think he was a better player than Tracy McGrady just because he played better defense and was a better teammate. That's asinine.


Yes, and Melo's peak is far, far greater than Leonard is ever likely to become.


...and he's still unquestionably one of the three best point guards in the league with Paul and Curry.


:laugh: Did you try to qualify Russell Westbrook's talent by saying he's "probably top 5?" I dare you to make a legitimate argument for any other PG in the league other than Paul or Curry being better than Westbrook. It's impossible to make a sane argument that he's anything other than top 3.
No offense but that's a bunch of baloney. all of it. How is he supposed to "make an argument", as you put it, when we've already established that you believe that offense is disproportionately more valuable than defense and that being a good team player and teammate have little to no value?

That's like saying "make a good argument for why someone is more attractive than I find her".

dalton749
09-29-2014, 05:44 PM
You have a fair point, but Kobe was incredibly efficient the last full season he played. Also, Kobe's defense is not what it use to be, but it is still several notches better than Derozan's. I think Derozan is one of the worst efficient volume scorers in the league.

I also don't see that much of a comparison between Kobe and Derozan's game.

Kobe is a superior rebounder, passer, defender, scorer, clutch player, and shooter (neither are great from 3 but Derozan is God awful). Aside from last season, Derozan has never averaged more than 2.5 assists per game. He is a one-dimensional inefficient volume scorer.

obviously kobe is the better player, but defense wise, derozans advanced numbers on that side are better than kobes his last healthy year
kobes a carrer 45% shooter, derozan 44%
last year was derozans breakout year so going past that for stats is irrelevant, he will continue to be above 4 apg
he was one dimensional, not anymore (which suggests you didnt see him play last year)

but where the similarities are is their ability to get the free throw line, operate out of the midrange, and post
(derozan uses a bunch of kobes moves)

Goose17
09-29-2014, 05:55 PM
I'm not a fan of Harden's all around game, but I think his offensive work trumps his defensive efficiency. I just try to be objective. :P

I agree actually, hence him being my #1 SG as well.

Redrum187
09-29-2014, 10:59 PM
obviously kobe is the better player, but defense wise, derozans advanced numbers on that side are better than kobes his last healthy year
kobes a carrer 45% shooter, derozan 44%
last year was derozans breakout year so going past that for stats is irrelevant, he will continue to be above 4 apg
he was one dimensional, not anymore (which suggests you didnt see him play last year)

but where the similarities are is their ability to get the free throw line, operate out of the midrange, and post
(derozan uses a bunch of kobes moves)

Their fg% is irrelevant to me, look at their TS%/eFG%. That is a better indicator. GOing past last season is anything BUT irrelevant. Mike James put up awesome numbers in his 05-06 season, but it didn't stick. One season is not enough to prove to me this is the norm and not an outlier.

mrblisterdundee
09-29-2014, 11:22 PM
PG: Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry, Damian Lillard, Tony Parker
SG: James Harden, Kobe Bryant, Goran Dragic, Dwyane Wade, Lance Stephenson
SF: LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Kawhi Leonard, Nicolas Batum
PF: Anthony Davis, Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, Dirk Nowitzki
C: Dwight Howard, Joakim Noah, DeMarcus Cousins, Marc Gasol, Andre Drummond

mightybosstone
09-29-2014, 11:59 PM
I disagree with everything you said.
:shrug: That's your prerogative, but it certainly doesn't make you right.


First of all there's no way you can possibly know that Kawhi won't be a better player than Melo (especially considering he might already be better than Melo). If that's what you believe then fine but don't state it as if its a fact.
I can't know that Melo will end up with a better career than Leonard, but I know that Melo is a better player now and I can use common sense and numbers to easily determine that Leonard isn't likely to surpass Melo's career playing at his current level. I'm sorry if you disagree with me on this particular point, but you're being pretty foolish if you think Leonard is a better player right now than Melo.

You're talking about a guy who basically posted a 13/6/2/2 versus a 27/8/3/1 guy. You're letting sample size totally dominate the argument and focusing far too much on how Leonard played in a handful of games rather than focusing on the fact that he no-showed in two of those playoff series, he's essentially the No. 4 option offensively on that team and the fact that he was statistically no better than a really efficient 3 and D player for most of last season. He's played in no All-Star games, made no All-NBA teams and no All-defensive teams.

A lot of guys have played really great basketball in small sample sizes in the playoffs. Cedric Maxwell won a Finals MVP, too, but it didn't make him a better player than Larry Bird.


Secondly being a "better team mate" means more about Melo than it does about Leonard. Melo will never find success as he's too self centered. That inability to trust team mates is a big flaw and does effect him as a player. I don't care how talented you are, if you're not willing to play as part of a team then you're not a good player. End of.
The whole "Melo is self centered" thing is totally overplayed. He has proved time and time again in international play that he can thrive playing on a great team with great teammates. He isn't Lebron James. He isn't going to make a ton of plays for guys around him and he's not a great passer. But to suggest he's some completely selfish player who refuses to pass at the detriment of his own team just isn't true anymore. He's become a very efficient scorer in recent years and the Knicks have been able to run a pretty effective team offense around his strengths.


As for offense being at a greater premium... If you mean in terms of offensive players being paid more and stuff then sure. But give me an elite defensive wing over an elite scoring wing every day. Iguodala > Melo. (I've edited my list to reflect this, got to remember the list was just off the top of my head)
Then I'm very, very glad you're not the GM of my basketball team, because you'd be fired in a heartbeat. This is one of the dumbest things I've read from someone in a long while, and it's sad, because I usually really respect the things you say. Based on your logic, I supposed I'd much rather have Patrick Beverley than Stephen Curry. It's a different position, but it's the same basic, horrible logic.


On top of that Melos offense isn't that great anyway, he's a borderline chucker and horribly inefficient in a lot of areas. Melos offense is not comparable to Kawhis defense. You would be better comparing Kawhis defense to KDs offense.
I'm sorry. Did you just call him horribly inefficient? The guy has posted a 56%+ TS% the last two seasons, which is well above league average. And his .452/.402/.848 shooting percentages are pretty exceptional for a wing player. He doesn't get to the line as much as other elite scorers, but he's become one of the better 3-point shooters in the league and he's as deadly a scorer as there is in the league outside of Durant and Lebron. If you think he's inefficient, you haven't been watching basketball the last two years and you should probably just sit this discussion out.


Kawhi, elite defender, decent scorer
Melo, great but not elite scorer, horrible defender.
Kawhi: Elite defender. Slightly above average scorer. Would get nowhere in this league if he was your No. 1 option.
Melo: Elite scorer. Average to slightly below average defender. Could make the playoffs with him as your No. 1 and a relatively competent cast around him.


I know who I want.

Scoring more points than another individual doesn't make you the better player.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
You're entitled to be wrong then I guess.

dalton749
09-30-2014, 12:30 AM
Their fg% is irrelevant to me, look at their TS%/eFG%. That is a better indicator. GOing past last season is anything BUT irrelevant. Mike James put up awesome numbers in his 05-06 season, but it didn't stick. One season is not enough to prove to me this is the norm and not an outlier.

Lmao you just compared mike James, a guy who scored less than 12 a game except for one year where he had 20 a game in way more minutes than normal, at 30 years old,
to demar derozan who just turned 25, scored 17 a game for 3 years before jumping to 23, became the first option on a young team that went 42-21 over that period, made his first allstar game, just won a gold medal while being used as a defender, and ball handler (which both used to be considered his biggest weaknesses) and is one of the hardest workers in the league.

You're way off base

SugeKnight
09-30-2014, 02:40 AM
PG
1.) Stephen Curry
2.) Chris Paul
3.) Russell Westbrook
4.) Kyrie Irving
5.) Tony Parker

SG
1.) James Harden
2.) Demar Derozan
3.) Klay Thompson
4.) Kobe Bryant
5.) Dwyane Wade

SF
1.) LeBron James
2.) Kevin Durant
3.) Carmelo Anthony
4.) Nicholas Batum
5.) Kawhi Leonard

PF
1.) Blake Griffin
2.) Anthony Davis
3.) Kevin Love
4.) Dirk Nowitzki
5.) Tim Duncan

C
1.) Dwight Howard
2.) Joakim Noah
3.) Al Jefferson
4.) Demarcus Cousins
5.) Al Horford

Goose17
09-30-2014, 04:55 AM
he's as deadly a scorer as there is in the league outside of Durant and Lebron. If you think he's inefficient, you haven't been watching basketball the last two years and you should probably just sit this discussion out.


Inefficient was a poor choice of words, I simply mean he's not elite. He's good, he's not elite though.

Last season,

Durants TS% = .635%
Lebrons TS% = .649%
Currys TS% = .610%
Hardens TS% = .618%
Melos TS% = .561%
Gays TS% = .540%

He doesn't compare to the other elite offensive talents in this league, not even close. I chucked Gay in at the end there to prove a point, he's closer to that % than he is to any of the elite offensive players, that tells you something.


You're talking about a guy who basically posted a 13/6/2/2 versus a 27/8/3/1 guy.

Fortunately basketball isn't that simple.

13/6/2/2 versus 20/6/3/1
27/8/3/1 versus 20/6/3/1

...Are you saying you would take Rudy Gay over Leonard as well?



He's played in no All-Star games, made no All-NBA teams and no All-defensive teams.

Neither had Curry until very recently. It's called being underrated.



Based on your logic, I supposed I'd much rather have Patrick Beverley than Stephen Curry.

No, never. Because a defensive wing is a better asset than a defensive point man. On top of that it's not the same, Curry is an elite offensive talent who also distributes the ball well. Melo is a good but not great offensive talent who can rebound pretty well and does nothing else and is also selfish. Beverley is a defensive specialist, he does little else. Kawhi is an elite defensive player who is well rounded on offense.

It's not about taking defense over offense. It's about taking an elite defensive player who scores efficiently in a variety of ways and completely buys into the teams game plan over a good but not great offensive player who isolates far too much, isn't efficient enough to be called elite, plays little to no defense and is quite self centered.

I can't think of a point guard comparison but I'll give you a shooting guard comparison; Tony Allen > Monta Ellis.

Goose17
09-30-2014, 04:57 AM
You're entitled to be wrong then I guess.

There is no wrong or right, and the fact that you think there is just shows your mindset for what it truly is.

We are predicting the future, how things will go this season. Nobody can be wrong or right because nobody can possibly know for certain. It's just opinions, as I clearly stated in my first post. None of this is fact therefore it's impossible to be right (or wrong).

IKnowHoops
09-30-2014, 06:08 AM
PG
CP3
Westbrook
Curry
Kyrie
Lillard/Wall

SG
Harden
Thompson
Derozan
Waiters
Beale

SF
Bron
Durant
Melo
Kawai
Gay

PF
Blake
Love
AD
Aldrige
Duncan

C
Howard
Al Jefferson
Cousins
Noah
Marc Gasol

mightybosstone
09-30-2014, 09:24 AM
Inefficient was a poor choice of words, I simply mean he's not elite. He's good, he's not elite though.

Last season,

Durants TS% = .635%
Lebrons TS% = .649%
Currys TS% = .610%
Hardens TS% = .618%
Melos TS% = .561%
Gays TS% = .540%
Two things about this list. First, that was Gay's highest TS% in like four years. He is not remotely on Melo's level in terms of scoring or efficiency, so it's a terrible comparison. A better example would have been Kobe before he got injured. As for the other guys, I never said he was on Durant or Lebron's level. Now, you've got fair points with Curry and Harden, but I would put both of those guys ahead of Melo as well despite that Melo is probably the more skilled overall scorer and puts up higher volume numbers. If you look around the league and at the history of the league, it's extremely rare for scoring wings and guards to post a TS% over 60%.

(Yes, I'm aware Leonard posted a TS% over 60% last year, but let's see him actually do it with a halfway decent USG%.)


He doesn't compare to the other elite offensive talents in this league, not even close. I chucked Gay in at the end there to prove a point, he's closer to that % than he is to any of the elite offensive players, that tells you something.
You're using a single statistic to try and prove your point. That's not exactly fair. How about the fact that Melo just scored more points than Curry and Harden did last season? Just because he doesn't have Curry's silky smooth jumper or Harden's ability to get to the rim and draw contact doesn't mean he isn't as proficient a scorer. It just means he doesn't have that single elite ability that makes him efficient as those two guys.


Fortunately basketball isn't that simple.

13/6/2/2 versus 20/6/3/1
27/8/3/1 versus 20/6/3/1

...Are you saying you would take Rudy Gay over Leonard as well?
The difference between Melo and Gay is astronomical. The difference between 20 points in a game and 27 points in a game is everything, but you're acting like it's not a big deal. Hell, Melo more than doubled Leonard's offensive output last season and you're completely glossing over it.


Neither had Curry until very recently. It's called being underrated.
Except Curry proved himself to be an extremely useful offensive player really early in his career. He was putting up a hyper efficient 18/5 and 19/6 in his rookie and sophomore years respectively. But if you want to go that route, okay. In 2010-11, would you have already said that Curry was better than guys like Tony Parker or Derrick Rose? Hell no, and you would have been laughed off PSD for saying it. To me, this isn't that different. If you were just saying that you think Leonard has a chance to be better in the future, I wouldn't disagree with you. But you're saying that you think he's better right now, which is just insane to me.


No, never. Because a defensive wing is a better asset than a defensive point man. On top of that it's not the same, Curry is an elite offensive talent who also distributes the ball well. Melo is a good but not great offensive talent who can rebound pretty well and does nothing else and is also selfish.
Again, why do you keep using the word "selfish?" I think that word is totally overused in basketball. Just because a guy doesn't also average 5-6 assists per game doesn't make him selfish. It probably just means he's not a great passer or playmaker for others around him. That doesn't make him selfish. That's just his game.

And since when is Melo not an elite offensive talent? The guy is 11th in career PPG. 11th! And if we were to look at the efficient of the guys ahead of him, I wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't the least efficient player on that list. Hell, Melo's TS% the last two years has been higher than Kobe's career average. Was Kobe not "an elite offensive talent" in his career? You have a seriously skewed version of what the phrase "elite offensive talent" means.


Beverley is a defensive specialist, he does little else. Kawhi is an elite defensive player who is well rounded on offense.
Yes, he's so well-rounded on offense that he averaged 13 points a night last season. I don't care about all of this hypothetical discussion. If you're supposed to be a great offensive player, don't show it to me over a handful of games during the playoffs. I want to see it consistently throughout the season and the postseason. Until Leonard shows me that, I'm not going to buy him as a legitimately dangerous offensive weapon.


It's not about taking defense over offense. It's about taking an elite defensive player who scores efficiently in a variety of ways and completely buys into the teams game plan over a good but not great offensive player who isolates far too much, isn't efficient enough to be called elite, plays little to no defense and is quite self centered.
He scores in a variety of ways in an extremely limited sample size. Sample size means everything in sports, and I think you're overlooking this fact.


I can't think of a point guard comparison but I'll give you a shooting guard comparison; Tony Allen > Monta Ellis.
Except Monta Ellis doesn't deserve to lick the bottom of Melo's shoes as a basketball player. You know, I wonder if you would still feel this way if we were to look at this from a historical perspective. You know who's always a great comparison to Anthony? Dominique Wilkins. Hell, Wilkins was even less efficient than Melo and was arguably a worse player in terms of overall production and postseason success. But if I were to ask you to rank players all-time, would you rank guys like Bobby Jones or Dave Debusschere ahead of Melo? Probably not. You might have a case for guys like Sidney Moncrief or Joe Dumars, who were pretty damn good offensive players, but Jones and Debusschere were no better than No. 3 options their entire careers. And you know what? Leonard isn't even on the level of Jones or Debusschere yet as a consistent offensive player! So let's just chill with the Leonard > Melo talk.


There is no wrong or right, and the fact that you think there is just shows your mindset for what it truly is.

We are predicting the future, how things will go this season. Nobody can be wrong or right because nobody can possibly know for certain. It's just opinions, as I clearly stated in my first post. None of this is fact therefore it's impossible to be right (or wrong).
If you're telling me that based on Leonard's first three seasons of basketball that he's a better basketball player than Carmelo Anthony, than there's a pretty clear right and wrong in my head and you're on the wrong side of that debate. You can scream "selfish" and "team player" from the top of your lungs, but that doesn't change a player's productivity or overall value. Again, if you want to argue that Leonard could potentially be better than Melo in the future, that's fine. But your'e telling me that he's a better player now, and that's completely asinine.

Tony_Starks
09-30-2014, 11:31 AM
PG

Westbrook
CP3
Curry
Rose
Parker

SG

Kobe
Wade
Klay
Derozan
Harden

SF

KD
Lebron
Melo
Leonard
Gay

PF

Aldridge
Blake Griffin
Dirk
Duncan
Pau Gasol

C

DMC
Noah
Marc Gasol
Lopez
Howard

Redrum187
09-30-2014, 12:42 PM
Lmao you just compared mike James, a guy who scored less than 12 a game except for one year where he had 20 a game in way more minutes than normal, at 30 years old,
to demar derozan who just turned 25, scored 17 a game for 3 years before jumping to 23, became the first option on a young team that went 42-21 over that period, made his first allstar game, just won a gold medal while being used as a defender, and ball handler (which both used to be considered his biggest weaknesses) and is one of the hardest workers in the league.

You're way off base

Yes I compared him to Mike James. The aspect I'm comparing them IS comparable. In statistics there are outliers, even if you are Mike James or LeBron James, if the measurement is ultra small, one cannot predict one way or another with confidence, future output... at least not objectively.

Goose17
09-30-2014, 04:36 PM
Yes, I'm aware Leonard posted a TS% over 60% last year, but let's see him actually do it with a halfway decent USG%

He's playing for Pops, how much of a USG% do you expect him to have? He's not playing some New York ISO "Melo ball" where he thinks of himself as the first, second, third and last option.

Vinny642
09-30-2014, 05:22 PM
PG

Westbrook
CP3
Curry
Rose
Parker

SG

Kobe
Wade
Klay
Derozan
Harden

SF

KD
Lebron
Melo
Leonard
Gay

PF

Aldridge
Blake Griffin
Dirk
Duncan
Pau Gasol

C

DMC
Noah
Marc Gasol
Lopez
Howard

No Davis or Love in your PF list.... tf?

dalton749
09-30-2014, 07:29 PM
Yes I compared him to Mike James. The aspect I'm comparing them IS comparable. In statistics there are outliers, even if you are Mike James or LeBron James, if the measurement is ultra small, one cannot predict one way or another with confidence, future output... at least not objectively.

Dude it's not comparable at all, stop. mike James went from a bench player to a starter on a new team

Derozan has the exact same team, same role, same system, same coach, same minutes. Have you heard the definition for insanity that says, doing the same thing, but expecting different results?

I dont care that you left derozan off your list, but you use his progression as a player and act like he will get worse, then put lance in there who had his own little breakout year, but is going to a team where he's not the primary ball handler, and has better rebounding bigs

mightybosstone
09-30-2014, 08:01 PM
He's playing for Pops, how much of a USG% do you expect him to have? He's not playing some New York ISO "Melo ball" where he thinks of himself as the first, second, third and last option.

Duncan has posted a USG% over 25% 16 times, Parker did it 10 times and Manu did seven times. Let's not pretend like it's impossible for Spurs players to post high USG rates just because they play in Pop's offensive system. Hell, all three guys nearly accomplished that feat last year with Manu posting a 24.7 USG%. Leonard was ninth on the Spurs roster in USG% at 18.3%, just ahead of Splitter (17.7%) and just behind Belinelli (19.0%).

If Leonard is ever going to become a legitimate, consistent offensive No. 3, he should be posting a USG% over 20% and if he's going to be a legit No. 2, it should at least be over 22-23%. To be a No. 1, he should probably be well over 25%. Granted it varies quite a bit and USG% alone isn't the best barometer of offensive competence, but it is a good barometer in how confident a player is offensively. And I'm sorry, but a guy who is ninth on his own team in USG% does not wow me or impress me.

And you can rip on Melo all you want, but if you put Leonard on that New York team last year, it would have been a miracle if they won 20 games. They pretty much HAVE to play Melo ball, because nobody else on the team has any ****ing clue how to put the basketball through the net.

goingfor28
09-30-2014, 09:41 PM
Cp3
Russ
Parker
Steph
Rose

Kobe
Harden
Wade
Lance
Klay

Lbj
Kd
Melo
Kawhi
Parsons

Blake
The brow
Love
Dirk
Duncan

Boogie
Big Al
Dwight
Noah
DJ

Allphakenny1
09-30-2014, 10:13 PM
That was with no Kobe so he'd have been 7th. He's a really good 3&D guy but that's it and he's been that player since he's been in the league with no great improvement since his rookie year. Stephenson was voted 5th with a skillset that has alot more room to grow then Thompson and going to a new team where he could have a bigger role. Derozan was voted 4th and of the 3 has easily the most room to improve next season.

Putting Thompson on your list is fine but if people think he's a consensus top 5 sg then he's being overrated.

If you think Thompson has not made great strides since he came into the league you are so wrong. Also, if you think he has little room to grow you could not be more wrong. He has shown great ability to drive and post up, just little effort to do that. If his mindset were to attack he has all the tools to do it. Hopefully Kerr can stress this.

Thompson has not been consensus top 5. He is on many lists late, and not on others. That seems pretty accurately rated.

TheGame
10-01-2014, 11:45 AM
centers

Duncan
Howard
Jordan
Noah
M.Gasol

Pf's

Nowitzki
Griffin
Love
Aldridge
P. Gasol

Sf
Leonard
James
Dray. Green
Thompson will play SF this season
Stephenson

SG
Wade
Harden
DeRozan
M. Ellis
to many ties

PG
Paul
Parker
Westbrook
Payton
to many ties

TheGame
10-01-2014, 11:52 AM
Duncan has posted a USG% over 25% 16 times, Parker did it 10 times and Manu did seven times. Let's not pretend like it's impossible for Spurs players to post high USG rates just because they play in Pop's offensive system. Hell, all three guys nearly accomplished that feat last year with Manu posting a 24.7 USG%. Leonard was ninth on the Spurs roster in USG% at 18.3%, just ahead of Splitter (17.7%) and just behind Belinelli (19.0%).

If Leonard is ever going to become a legitimate, consistent offensive No. 3, he should be posting a USG% over 20% and if he's going to be a legit No. 2, it should at least be over 22-23%. To be a No. 1, he should probably be well over 25%. Granted it varies quite a bit and USG% alone isn't the best barometer of offensive competence, but it is a good barometer in how confident a player is offensively. And I'm sorry, but a guy who is ninth on his own team in USG% does not wow me or impress me.

And you can rip on Melo all you want, but if you put Leonard on that New York team last year, it would have been a miracle if they won 20 games. They pretty much HAVE to play Melo ball, because nobody else on the team has any ****ing clue how to put the basketball through the net.

You don't know what you're talking. I mean the crap you say is utter garbage 90% of the time.

Leonard on the Knicks would've fit nicely. Chandler can score 12 if givin chances, Amare can score even 15 if given chances. Smith can average 17 if givin chances. Also Leonard being the best defensive wing can score 17 a game if he was givin shots.
With carmelo on the floor he takes away about 30% of the others point totals. These are the facts. Infact carmelo will be traded soon. You'll then see a good "team" like the 04 Pistons.

WaDe03
10-01-2014, 01:56 PM
centers

Duncan
Howard
Jordan
Noah
M.Gasol

Pf's

Nowitzki
Griffin
Love
Aldridge
P. Gasol

Sf
Leonard
James
Dray. Green
Thompson will play SF this season
Stephenson

SG
Wade
Harden
DeRozan
M. Ellis
to many ties

PG
Paul
Parker
Westbrook
Payton
to many ties

TodWilkinson I'm sorry but this is a terrible list. Where would you rank Ewing and Kemp if they were in the league?

TheGame
10-01-2014, 02:15 PM
TodWilkinson I'm sorry but this is a terrible list. Where would you rank Ewing and Kemp if they were in the league?

It's a good list. It's not based on who chucks the most, it's based on who plays the most defense and who is efficient.

Prime Ewing today would easily be the best player in the entire NBA. He'd average roughly 28 points per game 12 rebounds and 4 blocks. And the 2-3 assist and 1 steal to round it out.

Kemp would be pretty much the second best player in the NBA to Ewing.

WaDe03
10-01-2014, 04:07 PM
It's a good list. It's not based on who chucks the most, it's based on who plays the most defense and who is efficient.

Prime Ewing today would easily be the best player in the entire NBA. He'd average roughly 28 points per game 12 rebounds and 4 blocks. And the 2-3 assist and 1 steal to round it out.

Kemp would be pretty much the second best player in the NBA to Ewing.

Hahaha yea man I figured those would be the best 2 players in the league by far in your eyes.

Jarvo
10-01-2014, 04:10 PM
Westbrook
CP3
Parker
Curry
Rose/ Lillard

Kobe
Wade
Harden
Klay
Derozan

Lebron
Kobe
Melo
Kawhi
Iggy

Aldridge
Davis
Blake
Love
Duncan

DMC
Noah
Howard
Jefferson
Gasol

Kaner
10-01-2014, 04:47 PM
If you think Thompson has not made great strides since he came into the league you are so wrong. Also, if you think he has little room to grow you could not be more wrong. He has shown great ability to drive and post up, just little effort to do that. If his mindset were to attack he has all the tools to do it. Hopefully Kerr can stress this.

Thompson has not been consensus top 5. He is on many lists late, and not on others. That seems pretty accurately rated.

Except he has shown 0 ability to do either effectively. In isolation situations Thompson is finishing at a mere 29.5 percent. When Thompson drives in isolation situations he either pulls-up about 50% of the time and shoots a mediocre 27.3 percent off the bounce; or when he does attempt to finish at the rim he only converts 41.7% of the time better but still well below league average.

He's been on well over half the lists with some having him as high as 2nd and yeah I think that's him getting overrated around here. Thompson's a great 3 and D guy. Personally I think that's all he'll be and that's okay. For the Warriors you could argue there isn't a better shooting guard in the NBA for that team. But, as a basketball player and potential Derozan and/or Stephenson have alot more to improve on going into next season and are already better shooting guards according to the PSD list you referenced before.

TheGame
10-01-2014, 05:12 PM
Hahaha yea man I figured those would be the best 2 players in the league by far in your eyes.

Kemp would actually be the 3rd most valuable today behind Duncan and as stated before Ewing.
This is a fact.

TheGame
10-01-2014, 05:20 PM
One question, what is a 3 and D guy? Doesn't sound impressive. Just sounds like player that chucks threes cause he can't drive or post and only plays defense on the three point line but if beat to the lane gives up.

Goose17
10-01-2014, 05:28 PM
One question, what is a 3 and D guy?

New to basketball? Google it bro, the answers are there. I hope you stick with this sport, I'm sure you will enjoy it. Some of your posts have shown you're a bit of a noob haha, I did wonder. Don't worry though, we all started somewhere. Have fun!

Lil Boy Blue
10-01-2014, 05:46 PM
IMO:

CP3/Westbrook/Curry/Lillard/Rose *HM: John Wall and Kyrie Irving

KB24/Wade/Harden/Thompson/Beal (Kobe and Wade both come in this season with chips on their shoulders)

Durant/LBJ/Melo/Leonard/Jabari (IMO Jabari will have virtually all control over Milwaukee & will put up nice #s)

Davis/Dirk/Aldridge/Griffin/Love (I do believe Davis gets more recognition this year and Dirk plays like its 2011)

Noah/Howard/M. Gasol/Bosh/Chandler (IMO Chandler back in Dallas will turn back to killing it on D and boards)

TheGame
10-01-2014, 06:00 PM
New to basketball? Google it bro, the answers are there. I hope you stick with this sport, I'm sure you will enjoy it. Some of your posts have shown you're a bit of a noob haha, I did wonder. Don't worry though, we all started somewhere. Have fun!

So I was right, and it offended you. I bet you started taking interest in basketball in the last couple of years.

You can't answer it any better than I have and it's a stupid term little kids like you made up in the last couple of seasons.

TheGame
10-01-2014, 06:04 PM
Difficult to predict accurately but...

PG;
1. CP3
2. Curry
3. Parker
4 & 5 - Lillard, Dragic, Wall or Rose ...LOL I told you it was difficult. Rose if healthy could be one to watch. Top 3 if he's like his MVP days.

SG;
1. Harden
2. DeRozan
3. Wade
4. Thompson
5. Stephenson


SF;
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Leonard
4. Iguodala
5. Batum

PF;
1. Griffin
2. Davis
3. LMA
4. Duncan
5. Bosh

C;
1. Noah
2. Dwight
3. Jefferson
4. Gasol
5. Cousins


My opinions and my opinions alone.

curry number 2??
noah 1???

Goose17
10-01-2014, 06:16 PM
So I was right, and it offended you. I bet you started taking interest in basketball in the last couple of years.

You can't answer it any better than I have and it's a stupid term little kids like you made up in the last couple of seasons.

LOL... no need to be so hostile. We all had to start somewhere bro you don't need to be ashamed at being new to the game.

3&D players have existed for a long time but they've only really became a "hot commodity" in recent years as the game evolved.

A 3&D guy is a guy that excels in shooting 3's (not chucking, efficiently shooting 3's) and playing hard nosed defense. They are usually decent in other areas as well but these are the areas they excel in. Good examples right now would be; Danny Green, Wes Mathews, Ariza and guys like Battier. Also Vince Carter is now pretty much exclusively a 3&D guy.

Personally I wouldn't put Klay in the 3&D category as he's shown ability to post up and finish at the rim, just a reluctance to actually do so consistently.




curry number 2??
noah 1???

Yep.

mightybosstone
10-01-2014, 07:34 PM
You don't know what you're talking. I mean the crap you say is utter garbage 90% of the time.

Leonard on the Knicks would've fit nicely. Chandler can score 12 if givin chances, Amare can score even 15 if given chances. Smith can average 17 if givin chances. Also Leonard being the best defensive wing can score 17 a game if he was givin shots.
With carmelo on the floor he takes away about 30% of the others point totals. These are the facts. Infact carmelo will be traded soon. You'll then see a good "team" like the 04 Pistons.

Your comments are almost as bad as your grammar. Is that you AGAIN, ShawnKemp? How many dupes have you had at this point? It's getting kind of pathetic.

TheTreys
10-01-2014, 07:37 PM
PG's
1. Chris Paul
2. Tony Parker
3. Russel Westbrook
4. Stephen Curry
5. Damian Lillard

SG's
1. James Harden
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Lance Stephenson
4. Dwyane Wade
5. DeMar DeRozan

SF's
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Luol Deng

PF's
1 Kevin Love
2. LaMarcus Aldridge
3. Blake Griffin
4. Anthony Davis
5. Tim Duncan

C's
1. Joakim Noah
2. Demarcus Cousins
3. Dwight Howard
4. Brook Lopez
5. Marc Gasol

TheGame
10-01-2014, 08:14 PM
Your comments are almost as bad as your grammar. Is that you AGAIN, ShawnKemp? How many dupes have you had at this point? It's getting kind of pathetic.

Dude you're such a nerd.

You're trying to say the Knicks wouldn't be able to score 90 with Leonard. That is exactly what you're saying. Do you know how stupid you seem?

TheGame
10-01-2014, 08:16 PM
I see everyone is coming around on Leonard. I see everyone has him around 3 or 4 on the SF list. hahaha, I was telling you all he was good like 2 years ago. HAHAHAHA. Wasn't it just a few months ago I was saying he was a top 15 player. Now he's placed right in the middle of everyone's top 25 list.

TheGame
10-01-2014, 08:21 PM
LOL... no need to be so hostile. We all had to start somewhere bro you don't need to be ashamed at being new to the game.

3&D players have existed for a long time but they've only really became a "hot commodity" in recent years as the game evolved.

A 3&D guy is a guy that excels in shooting 3's (not chucking, efficiently shooting 3's) and playing hard nosed defense. They are usually decent in other areas as well but these are the areas they excel in. Good examples right now would be; Danny Green, Wes Mathews, Ariza and guys like Battier. Also Vince Carter is now pretty much exclusively a 3&D guy.

Personally I wouldn't put Klay in the 3&D category as he's shown ability to post up and finish at the rim, just a reluctance to actually do so consistently.





Yep.

exactly what I said. A one dimensional player that only shoots 3's.

Not an important player. An important player is someone like Draymond Green that turned the Warriors from the worst defensive team in history to the best defensive team in Warrior history overnight, with his ability to defend in the key with shotblocks and steals aswell as altering another 4-5 a game.

Allphakenny1
10-01-2014, 09:02 PM
exactly what I said. A one dimensional player that only shoots 3's.

Not an important player. An important player is someone like Draymond Green that turned the Warriors from the worst defensive team in history to the best defensive team in Warrior history overnight, with his ability to defend in the key with shotblocks and steals aswell as altering another 4-5 a game.

I'm sure great/very good defensive players like Bogut, Thompson, Iguadala, and a good defensive coach in Jackson (horrible offensive coach) did nothing to help Green. He may be my favorite player, but you are severely overrating him.

TheGame
10-01-2014, 09:09 PM
I'm sure great/very good defensive players like Bogut, Thompson, Iguadala, and a good defensive coach in Jackson (horrible offensive coach) did nothing to help Green. He may be my favorite player, but you are severely overrating him.

Jackson did a lot. But of all the players I think Green is the best overall player on the Warriors. He's the one that makes it all happen. without him Curry wouldn't even get open shots.

I liked Jackson's defensive coaching and what he was trying to implement with the Warriors. Can't believe they let him go. His offense and fast break coaching is very good too.

Iguadala was a nice pickup that gave them another big gaurd.

FlashBolt
10-01-2014, 10:14 PM
I see everyone is coming around on Leonard. I see everyone has him around 3 or 4 on the SF list. hahaha, I was telling you all he was good like 2 years ago. HAHAHAHA. Wasn't it just a few months ago I was saying he was a top 15 player. Now he's placed right in the middle of everyone's top 25 list.

Kawhi isn't top 15.. Lmao. That must be a joke. He is the PRODUCT of a wonderful system that stretches 12 deep. Pop made Patty Mills look better than Miami's 3rd best player. Popovich sat his stars less than 30 minutes per game. Kawhi isn't the focus of the opposing team. Let's see how Kawhi adjusts when he's guarded by the best player, forced to handle the ball, forced to take clutch shots, forced to make plays consistently, and forced to carry his team from spots 1-5. Seriously, people are overrating him tremendously. LeBron got past him many times during their playoffs meetings but it was Duncan/Diaw guarding the paint that forced LeBron to adjust. You can throw anyone who is in the top 30 NBA players in that Spurs team and they would look pretty damn good. I'm not convinced about Leonard. He hasn't proven anything other than the fact that he can play within a great system. Can we trade him to the Bucks and see how he does?

WaDe03
10-01-2014, 10:40 PM
Kemp would actually be the 3rd most valuable today behind Duncan and as stated before Ewing.
This is a fact.

Soooooo
1. Ewing
2. Duncan
3. Kemp
That's terrible I hope you're being sarcastic

ThePostUp
10-02-2014, 12:42 PM
Kawhi isn't top 15.. Lmao. That must be a joke. He is the PRODUCT of a wonderful system that stretches 12 deep. Pop made Patty Mills look better than Miami's 3rd best player. Popovich sat his stars less than 30 minutes per game. Kawhi isn't the focus of the opposing team. Let's see how Kawhi adjusts when he's guarded by the best player, forced to handle the ball, forced to take clutch shots, forced to make plays consistently, and forced to carry his team from spots 1-5. Seriously, people are overrating him tremendously. LeBron got past him many times during their playoffs meetings but it was Duncan/Diaw guarding the paint that forced LeBron to adjust. You can throw anyone who is in the top 30 NBA players in that Spurs team and they would look pretty damn good. I'm not convinced about Leonard. He hasn't proven anything other than the fact that he can play within a great system. Can we trade him to the Bucks and see how he does?

system is a bad word. Just say TEAM. The Spurs play like a TEAM, which is a good thing. They pass and play for each other. Is that so bad? It's what you're supposed to do.

Kawhi is a very talented player that even can do things that lebron and durant can't do. For instance I've never seen Durant get a tip in follow dunk. Also can either one of them dunk in traffic with either hand over someone like Ibaka on a post up?

Also can they steal the ball and play pressure defense like Kawhi can? Can they get back on defense and bust up a pass to stop a fast break?

These are talents that Kawhi has. Also neither lebron or durant have any sort of post up game or footwork inside. While Kawhi does. Kawhi even had the hook shot, and the Jump hook shot to score over bigger defenders.

These are real talents that help a team win.

Popovich "allows" his players to all play free.

I'm sure if Kawhi is asked like he will be in a year or two to average 18 he will easily do so much like Parker did so when he was 23 years old. 18 is not some crazy amount that is imposible to get in a 48 minute NBA game. Each basket counts as 2 or 3 and there are also free throws.

It's what Kawhi does in the big moments also that separates him. So far sports a Finals record against the other two best wings in the game of 16/9 on 55% shooting, with 2 assist, 2 steals, almost a block and tons of defense.

16/9 on 55% shooting. NOT MANY GUYS in the league are efficient enough to do that. Carmelo can't do that.

FlashBolt
10-02-2014, 05:19 PM
system is a bad word. Just say TEAM. The Spurs play like a TEAM, which is a good thing. They pass and play for each other. Is that so bad? It's what you're supposed to do.

Kawhi is a very talented player that even can do things that lebron and durant can't do. For instance I've never seen Durant get a tip in follow dunk. Also can either one of them dunk in traffic with either hand over someone like Ibaka on a post up?

Also can they steal the ball and play pressure defense like Kawhi can? Can they get back on defense and bust up a pass to stop a fast break?

These are talents that Kawhi has. Also neither lebron or durant have any sort of post up game or footwork inside. While Kawhi does. Kawhi even had the hook shot, and the Jump hook shot to score over bigger defenders.

These are real talents that help a team win.

Popovich "allows" his players to all play free.

I'm sure if Kawhi is asked like he will be in a year or two to average 18 he will easily do so much like Parker did so when he was 23 years old. 18 is not some crazy amount that is imposible to get in a 48 minute NBA game. Each basket counts as 2 or 3 and there are also free throws.

It's what Kawhi does in the big moments also that separates him. So far sports a Finals record against the other two best wings in the game of 16/9 on 55% shooting, with 2 assist, 2 steals, almost a block and tons of defense.

16/9 on 55% shooting. NOT MANY GUYS in the league are efficient enough to do that. Carmelo can't do that.

You just answered your own question. Despite you having 400 accounts and all of them being banned, you provide false information. LeBron does have a post game.. It doesn't work when the Spurs are all looking towards him because everyone besides Rashard Lewis just played God awful against the Spurs. Kawhi's defense is overrated simply because if you watch the Finals, LeBron actually got past him countless times. It was because of Duncan/Diaw/Splitter that altered LeBron's play. LeBron only scored 30 points on 57% FG%... Kawhi is a product of a system. Team is interchangeable with system so there's no point in debating that. I have zero reason to believe Kawhi would be a better player than Carmelo if you switch their role... He fits the Spurs better because Pop doesn't like ball dominating players with high USG%... But there is no doubt Carmelo is a better player. Kawhi hasn't even scored 13 points a game per season and we're going to put him above Carmelo because his Spurs team dismantled Miami? Remember, it wasn't just Kawhi that had amazing games against Miami in the Finals. Duncan, Diaw, Manu, Patty, Green, and even Parker (who wasn't very good) had great games. He just looked good because of them. Like I said, throw everything that Kawhi has done away and put him on the Knicks. There is no way Kawhi could carry that team. I don't even know what option he can play because he never had the opportunity to do so.

LTBaByyy
10-03-2014, 12:54 AM
CP3
Parker
Westbrook
Wall
Rose
HM: Curry/Lillard/Irving

Kobe
Wade
Harden
Stephenson
Thompson
HM: Derozan

Lebron
Durant
Melo
Parsons
Leonard

Davis
Love
Griffin
Aldridge
Dirk
HM: Duncan/Ibaka

Howard
Noah
Jefferson
Drummond
Cousins
HM: Jordan/Gasol

kdspurman
10-03-2014, 08:25 PM
You just answered your own question. Despite you having 400 accounts and all of them being banned, you provide false information. LeBron does have a post game.. It doesn't work when the Spurs are all looking towards him because everyone besides Rashard Lewis just played God awful against the Spurs. Kawhi's defense is overrated simply because if you watch the Finals, LeBron actually got past him countless times. It was because of Duncan/Diaw/Splitter that altered LeBron's play. LeBron only scored 30 points on 57% FG%... Kawhi is a product of a system. Team is interchangeable with system so there's no point in debating that. I have zero reason to believe Kawhi would be a better player than Carmelo if you switch their role... He fits the Spurs better because Pop doesn't like ball dominating players with high USG%... But there is no doubt Carmelo is a better player. Kawhi hasn't even scored 13 points a game per season and we're going to put him above Carmelo because his Spurs team dismantled Miami? Remember, it wasn't just Kawhi that had amazing games against Miami in the Finals. Duncan, Diaw, Manu, Patty, Green, and even Parker (who wasn't very good) had great games. He just looked good because of them. Like I said, throw everything that Kawhi has done away and put him on the Knicks. There is no way Kawhi could carry that team. I don't even know what option he can play because he never had the opportunity to do so.

That's not true. Bowen had that same help in 2007, but his defense was not overrated obviously. Kawhi is certainly a near elite perimeter defender/rebounder. I don't think there is any disputing that...

I'll hold off on saying what Kawhi can/can't do in certain positions like others have. But I obviously won't say there's no way he can do something when that's yet to be proven. I think he is overrated by some and severely underrated by some, like you're doing now. And I get it, due to the fact that it was said he was above Melo which is obviously far from the truth, but you're not doing him much justice either, I think he's better than you realize.

xbrackattackx
10-03-2014, 08:37 PM
Pg:

Paul
Westbrook
Parker
Curry
Bledsoe/Conley/Teague

SG:

Harden
Dragic
Derozan
Stephenson/Klay
Kobe/Wade

SF:


Lebron
Durant
Anthony
Gay
Chandler

PF:


Griffin
Love
LMA
Ibaka
Davis/Bosh


C:

Howard
Boogie
Gasol
Noah
Jefferson/Duncan