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Matter.
09-27-2014, 01:18 PM
Voting for #32 has concluded and PSD's Official #32 NBA Player of all time is....

Isiah Thomas

The List:

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...7#post28837457

I'm just taking over this poll because it appears ManRam & MightyBossStone is really busy right now and I'd like to see this thing continue going. I didn't see any nominations in the last thread, so I apologize if I missed any. If the mods could please sticky this when they get a chance, I would appreciate it.

Matter.
09-27-2014, 02:50 PM
Can a mod sticky

hidalgo
09-27-2014, 07:39 PM
Durant

abe_froman
09-27-2014, 07:41 PM
its gotta be reed

YAALREADYKNO
09-27-2014, 08:14 PM
Iverson

mightybosstone
09-28-2014, 09:20 AM
Reed has waited long enough. You could make a strong argument for either of the Kevins here, but Reed not only won an MVP in his era, but was the best or second best player on two championship teams in the same era as the Wilt/West Lakers. He was an integral part in keeping Wilt in check in both of those titles and won Finals MVP both years. Reed was a dominant two-way player and his overall resume, albeit a short one, deserves recognition in the top 35 greatest players of all-time.

mightybosstone
09-28-2014, 09:27 AM
Durant
He's got a really strong case here, and no one can deny that his peak production crushes Reed's peak production. but consider Reed's defensive impact and how important that was playing against Wilt Chamberlain in the Knicks two title runs in the 70s.

Iverson
Career 42% shooter. Career 52% TS%. 17th in career turnovers despite being 49th in career minutes played. 80th in career WS. Little to no defensive impact. No. Just no.

YAALREADYKNO
09-28-2014, 10:17 AM
He's got a really strong case here, and no one can deny that his peak production crushes Reed's peak production. but consider Reed's defensive impact and how important that was playing against Wilt Chamberlain in the Knicks two title runs in the 70s.

Career 42% shooter. Career 52% TS%. 17th in career turnovers despite being 49th in career minutes played. 80th in career WS. Little to no defensive impact. No. Just no.



11x allstar 2001 league MVP and led the 76ers to the finals and his 76ers were the only ones to beat the lakers at least once in those playoffs.

mightybosstone
09-28-2014, 12:00 PM
11x allstar 2001 league MVP and led the 76ers to the finals and his 76ers were the only ones to beat the lakers at least once in those playoffs.

The number of All-Star teams you make does not determine where you should be listed in an all-time list. All-NBA selections are a far better barometer. Also, sorry if I'm not impressed by a single victory in a playoff series. One game does not make or break a player's career, especially one game which meant absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

YAALREADYKNO
09-28-2014, 07:22 PM
The number of All-Star teams you make does not determine where you should be listed in an all-time list. All-NBA selections are a far better barometer. Also, sorry if I'm not impressed by a single victory in a playoff series. One game does not make or break a player's career, especially one game which meant absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.


AI was a monster back in his day. Again he led an average 76ers squad to the finals. Who was the 2nd best player on that team, Mutumbo? Iverson at #32 isn't to crazy especially if you say McHale has a case here

mightybosstone
09-28-2014, 07:58 PM
AI was a monster back in his day. Again he led an average 76ers squad to the finals. Who was the 2nd best player on that team, Mutumbo?
Ummm... Why do you say "Mutombo?" as if that's a bad thing? Mutombo was a 4x DPOY who made All-NBA three times and All-Defensive team six times. You replace Mutombo with an average starting center and those 76er teams would have been trash. There are a ton of superstars in the history of the league that would have killed to have a center as good as Mutombo on the roster.


Iverson at #32 isn't to crazy especially if you say McHale has a case here
McHale was a superior basketball player to Iverson. He may not have been up the volume of points, but he was infinitely more efficient and a far superior defensive player. Couple that with the fact that he's probably the second most skilled offensive post player in NBA history and that he won three titles as one of the greatest No. 2s in NBA history, and I'd take McHale over Iverson in a heartbeat.

YAALREADYKNO
09-28-2014, 08:58 PM
Ummm... Why do you say "Mutombo?" as if that's a bad thing? Mutombo was a 4x DPOY who made All-NBA three times and All-Defensive team six times. You replace Mutombo with an average starting center and those 76er teams would have been trash. There are a ton of superstars in the history of the league that would have killed to have a center as good as Mutombo on the roster.


McHale was a superior basketball player to Iverson. He may not have been up the volume of points, but he was infinitely more efficient and a far superior defensive player. Couple that with the fact that he's probably the second most skilled offensive post player in NBA history and that he won three titles as one of the greatest No. 2s in NBA history, and I'd take McHale over Iverson in a heartbeat.


Mutumbo wasn't in his prime no more and he was limited offensively. McHale over Iverson? seriously? Anybody who knows basketball will tell you a lot of McHale's success came because of the team he was on. When did Iverson ever play with 2-3 other hall of famers in there primes? Iverson single handedly took an avg 76ers squad to the finals

JordansBulls
09-28-2014, 09:06 PM
I think this project can stop at #30 really.

mightybosstone
09-28-2014, 10:40 PM
Mutumbo wasn't in his prime no more and he was limited offensively.
He was limited offensively, but you're wrong if you think he wasn't still in his prime. He won DPOY that season, was a second team All-NBA selection and posted similar stats to other prime seasons. In fact, he was in his prime the following season, too, in 01-02. He wasn't out of his prime until the injury plagued season in 02-03 in New Jersey.


McHale over Iverson? seriously? Anybody who knows basketball will tell you a lot of McHale's success came because of the team he was on. When did Iverson ever play with 2-3 other hall of famers in there primes? Iverson single handedly took an avg 76ers squad to the finals
You take away McHale from those Boston teams and there isn't a chance in hell they win three titles, especially not in an era with the Bad Boy Pistons and the Showtime Lakers. And if you think it's crazy to rank McHale ahead of Iverson, do me a favor. Google top all-time NBA player lists and look through as many as you can find. I absolutely guarantee you that more analysts and NBA fans will rank McHale ahead of Iverson.

mightybosstone
09-28-2014, 10:43 PM
I think this project can stop at #30 really.

Well, you don't speak for all of PSD, so.... :shrug:

Also, we've done a top 50 list before, so if we're going to try and be consistent every time we start this up, we should do the same number every time. You know, instead of criticizing, you COULD actually help out and post some these threads instead. Or actually get involved in the discussion for a change.

KnicksorBust
09-29-2014, 06:48 PM
Reed.

KnicksorBust
09-29-2014, 06:49 PM
I think this project can stop at #30 really.

Hell no. I would love to see it go to #100.

alexander_37
09-29-2014, 09:24 PM
Im going with the glove.

JordansBulls
09-30-2014, 12:30 PM
Well, you don't speak for all of PSD, so.... :shrug:

Also, we've done a top 50 list before, so if we're going to try and be consistent every time we start this up, we should do the same number every time. You know, instead of criticizing, you COULD actually help out and post some these threads instead. Or actually get involved in the discussion for a change.
I'm saying it because there isn't enough participation. With 12 votes can you really say soo and soo should be at a certain ranking?

valade16
09-30-2014, 03:07 PM
Ummm... Why do you say "Mutombo?" as if that's a bad thing? Mutombo was a 4x DPOY who made All-NBA three times and All-Defensive team six times. You replace Mutombo with an average starting center and those 76er teams would have been trash. There are a ton of superstars in the history of the league that would have killed to have a center as good as Mutombo on the roster.

McHale was a superior basketball player to Iverson. He may not have been up the volume of points, but he was infinitely more efficient and a far superior defensive player. Couple that with the fact that he's probably the second most skilled offensive post player in NBA history and that he won three titles as one of the greatest No. 2s in NBA history, and I'd take McHale over Iverson in a heartbeat.

But you're missing the point that Mutombo is the only worthwhile player on his team. There is not a single Superstar that won a title or even made a finals appearance that would trade their supporting cast for the one Iverson had in Philly. Not one. It was terrible.

Heck, Mutombo was only on his team for 1 1/2 seasons!

Hell, talking about how inefficient Iverson was, he was one of the most efficient players on the 2000-2001 76ers, that's how terrible they were.

TS% (excluding Mutombo):
McKie 54.9%
Kukoc 52.3%
Iverson 51.8%
Hill 51.5%
Jones 51.0%
Lynch 49.6%
Ollie 49.5%
Buford 48.9%
Snow 48.8%
Geiger 43.0%

Look at that. That is abysmal. Who should he have given the ball to if he wanted to get more efficient points? That team was awful. Without Iverson it is the worst offensive team in the history of the NBA to make the playoffs (and possibly the worst offensive team to ever make the NCAA tournament). They were dog****.

I'm voting Reed, but can this Iverson hate stop please? Don't sit there on your high horse and say 1 1/2 years of Mutumbo, dude had plenty of help. Because it's a laughably stupid opinion. He didn't ever have help in Philly and the one half year he did the team went all the way to the Finals. Team here meaning Iverson, washed up Mutombo, and scrubs.

mightybosstone
09-30-2014, 07:42 PM
But you're missing the point that Mutombo is the only worthwhile player on his team. There is not a single Superstar that won a title or even made a finals appearance that would trade their supporting cast for the one Iverson had in Philly. Not one. It was terrible.

Heck, Mutombo was only on his team for 1 1/2 seasons!

Hell, talking about how inefficient Iverson was, he was one of the most efficient players on the 2000-2001 76ers, that's how terrible they were.

TS% (excluding Mutombo):
McKie 54.9%
Kukoc 52.3%
Iverson 51.8%
Hill 51.5%
Jones 51.0%
Lynch 49.6%
Ollie 49.5%
Buford 48.9%
Snow 48.8%
Geiger 43.0%

Look at that. That is abysmal. Who should he have given the ball to if he wanted to get more efficient points? That team was awful. Without Iverson it is the worst offensive team in the history of the NBA to make the playoffs (and possibly the worst offensive team to ever make the NCAA tournament). They were dog****.

I'm voting Reed, but can this Iverson hate stop please? Don't sit there on your high horse and say 1 1/2 years of Mutumbo, dude had plenty of help. Because it's a laughably stupid opinion. He didn't ever have help in Philly and the one half year he did the team went all the way to the Finals. Team here meaning Iverson, washed up Mutombo, and scrubs.
You're kinda missing the point here, though, dude. I'm not hating on Iverson for not winning a title. In fact, considering the amount of help he got until he joined Melo in Denver, his postseason resume was actually pretty decent. Anybody who can get a team to an NBA Finals with that supporting cast does deserve some credit.

I'm hating on Iverson because he was a horribly inefficient superstar who didn't do other things well enough to make up for it. He was essentially just a volume scorer. But if I wanted a volume scorer, I'd rather have someone who was at least competently efficient, like Gervin, Wilkins or McGrady. Does Iverson at least belong in the top 50 discussion? Certainly. But wouldn't rank him about those guys or a lot of other guards and wings that are still on the list that were just better overall basketball players and have better overall resumes.

valade16
10-01-2014, 11:44 AM
You're kinda missing the point here, though, dude. I'm not hating on Iverson for not winning a title. In fact, considering the amount of help he got until he joined Melo in Denver, his postseason resume was actually pretty decent. Anybody who can get a team to an NBA Finals with that supporting cast does deserve some credit.

I'm hating on Iverson because he was a horribly inefficient superstar who didn't do other things well enough to make up for it. He was essentially just a volume scorer. But if I wanted a volume scorer, I'd rather have someone who was at least competently efficient, like Gervin, Wilkins or McGrady. Does Iverson at least belong in the top 50 discussion? Certainly. But wouldn't rank him about those guys or a lot of other guards and wings that are still on the list that were just better overall basketball players and have better overall resumes.

I came down kind of hard on you but I wasn't directing it at you so much as the collective sentiment that seems to have grown that dismisses Iverson and trivializes what he accomplished.

I agree with you regarding the other scorers. I'd vote Reed here and several other guys above AI. But my point is, he definitely deserves to be in the discussion for Top 50 all-time and while incredibly inefficient, he was still a great player.