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View Full Version : Who would you take first in the 1999 draft?



JasonJohnHorn
09-23-2014, 11:50 AM
I've enjoyed hearing you guys debate these, and given that its the offseason and not much is going on, I figured I'd give you another one.


With 20/20 hindsight, who would you draft with the first over all pick in the 1999 draft?

Once you've answer that, share who you might take with the first three picks.

Chacarron
09-23-2014, 11:54 AM
1. Elton Brand
2. Manu Ginobili
3. Shawn Marion

xbrackattackx
09-23-2014, 01:46 PM
Brand or Marion. Depends on my teams needs.

I like Maggette,Artest and Terrry as well.


99 best of team would be....

Stevie Franchise/Baron David
Manu/Terry/Wally/Rip
Artest/Andrei K.
Marion/Odom
Brand/Jeff Foster


I feel like I'm forgetting someone.

abe_froman
09-23-2014, 02:48 PM
i'd probably still go with brand

smith&wesson
09-23-2014, 03:41 PM
funny how the op said to use hindsight and people are still picking brand. half the guys career has been plagued by injuries.

for me it would be Gino pretty easily

2nd and 3rd and 4th picks id go with Marion, Rip, and Odom

ThuglifeJ
09-23-2014, 03:49 PM
funny how the op said to use hindsight and people are still picking brand. half the guys career has been plagued by injuries.

for me it would be Gino pretty easily

2nd and 3rd and 4th picks id go with Marion, Rip, and Odom

Ya that's been throwing me off too.

Its gotta be Ginobili or Marion pretty easily imo. Arrest was good but the antics..

Both those 2 bring a long good unselfish career..benefit any team at any time

smith&wesson
09-23-2014, 04:06 PM
Ya that's been throwing me off too.

Its gotta be Ginobili or Marion pretty easily imo. Arrest was good but the antics..

Both those 2 bring a long good unselfish career..benefit any team at any time

I agree, plus if you consider the fact that gino came off the bench for the spurs, his career numbers would have looked way sexier if he was a starter all these years.

Artest was a beast in early years, but you are right his attitude would make me stear away as well. specially having hindsight.

abe_froman
09-23-2014, 04:27 PM
funny how the op said to use hindsight and people are still picking brand. half the guys career has been plagued by injuries.

for me it would be Gino pretty easily

2nd and 3rd and 4th picks id go with Marion, Rip, and Odom
manu is a great player,but he was never a high volume guy.with the first pick,you better grab someone you can have as a primary option;and brand ,while not great,was the closest to that in the draft.

ThuglifeJ
09-23-2014, 04:32 PM
funny how the op said to use hindsight and people are still picking brand. half the guys career has been plagued by injuries.

for me it would be Gino pretty easily

2nd and 3rd and 4th picks id go with Marion, Rip, and Odom
manu is a great player,but he was never a high volume guy.with the first pick,you better grab someone you can have as a primary option;and brand ,while not great,was the closest to that in the draft.

Gino and Marion are better than Brand. They all could score in variety of ways, but ginobili could also be a playmaker and 6th man, Marion was also an elite defender and rebounder.

These guys contribute to winning basketball.

smith&wesson
09-23-2014, 05:46 PM
manu is a great player,but he was never a high volume guy.with the first pick,you better grab someone you can have as a primary option;and brand ,while not great,was the closest to that in the draft.

Ginobli could have been a go to guy on his team but he is an unselfish player who sacrificed for his team to win ships. Thats the kind of guy I would pick.

Also I would probably pick 5-6 other guys ahead of Brand. prime Baron Davis, Matrix, Odom, Gino, Artest, hell i'd even take prime ak47 and Jason Terry over Brand tbh.

Tony_Starks
09-23-2014, 06:00 PM
Stevie Franchise followed by Odom, Artest, Baron Davis...

mRc08
09-23-2014, 06:55 PM
If I had to pick Franchise probably. But with hindsight I'd probably trade my pick.

YAALREADYKNO
09-23-2014, 07:04 PM
Brand. Dude was a 20/10 guy cant go wrong with that

Lloyd Christmas
09-23-2014, 08:09 PM
Baron Davis.

mrblisterdundee
09-23-2014, 10:13 PM
1. Shawn Marion
2. Manu Ginobili
3. Elton Brand
4. Baron Davis
5. Ron Artest/Metta World Peace

Chronz
09-23-2014, 10:23 PM
Manu. Anyone else is simply the wrong choice

IKnowHoops
09-23-2014, 10:33 PM
1. Ginobli
2. Baron Davis
3. Steve Francis

JasonJohnHorn
09-24-2014, 12:19 AM
Manu is great, but I think I'd have to go with Marion. An elite defender, great rebounder, unselfish player, and solid scorer.

I wouldn't argue with Manu... but I'd go with Marion for sure.

I do like that Manu can pass the ball, but as a ball handler, he did get a lot of turnovers. The rebounding and defense give Marion the edge for me. If Manu were my primary ball handler, we'd be in trouble.

If I had three guys... I might actually grab Andre Miller, Rip and Marion. I think Manu is better than Miller and Rip obviously, but I think Miller, Rip and Marion would have better chemistry.

But Baron Davis, Manu and Marion might work as well. And having AK47 and Marion on the same team would be great.

Tony_Starks
09-24-2014, 12:34 AM
People saying Manu are forgetting how much of a time Pop had breaking his wild a ss habits the first few years. He went to the perfect situation for his game, structured but still enough leeway to freestyle every now and again.

Had Manu went to a lesser coach his career would've turned out much differently.

Lloyd Christmas
09-24-2014, 02:16 AM
If Baron Davis had Pop to mold him he would have been the second best running mate Duncan had after Robinson.

WadeKobe
09-24-2014, 06:45 AM
Matrix
Ginobili
No one else

NoahH
09-24-2014, 12:14 PM
I ain't touching Steve Cancer Francis

1. Marion
2. Brand
3. Rip Hamilton

Chronz
09-24-2014, 01:04 PM
Manu is great, but I think I'd have to go with Marion. An elite defender, great rebounder, unselfish player, and solid scorer.
He was a solid/versatile defender for sure but elite is a reach for me, he was a zero time All-Defensive member and its hard to find a snubbed season to dispute. What he was, was a guy who allowed you to go small without losing anything in terms of rebounding. That helped his teams spacing and allowed him to optimize his efficiency but it did mean a downsizing of the roster. He played unselfishly but so does Manu, only Manu did it with very little ego whereas Marion inevitably left the team out of spite, after years of feeling underappreciated and letting the world know as much. As for scoring, hes not what I think of when I use the term scorer.
I think he was a great garbage man, possibly the most productive player to have so few plays called for him, making him one of the best 3rd pieces imaginable for a contending team but as far as offensive threats go, Manu is clearly superior.



I wouldn't argue with Manu... but I'd go with Marion for sure.
Its like asking me if I want the work horse or the guy who can give me Kobe Bryant level of production in 32MPG. Manu was that kind of talent, he got his offense in different ways of course, he had the best set shot that set up a killer head fake for his rim attacks. The vision to create off those plays, it literally all starts with that set shot. As a side note, James Harden went to a HS nearby and from what Ive heard he basically prioritized mastering a set shot/corner shot before expanding his game elsewhere. Feel like its the fundamental skill you have to have to set up the Chauncey Billups/Manu/Harden type of game where you dominate with 3's and FT's.

That said, I dont like that Marion is hybrid forward, I can play Manu at the 2 (some 3) or as a backup-1 and know hes a natural fit. Marion as a wing cramps my spacing and doesn't bring out the best in his abilities. As a 4 man, my team loses some size.



I do like that Manu can pass the ball, but as a ball handler, he did get a lot of turnovers. The rebounding and defense give Marion the edge for me. If Manu were my primary ball handler, we'd be in trouble.
If Marion were a primary ball handler, the team would be demonstrably worse because it doesn't fit his skillset, not seeing the point of that one. In a direct comparison, Manu's turnover rate doesn't prevent him from being more efficient for his career than Marion, this despite carrying a far bigger burden offensively.


If I had three guys... I might actually grab Andre Miller, Rip and Marion. I think Manu is better than Miller and Rip obviously, but I think Miller, Rip and Marion would have better chemistry.
Really, Rip? Why?

Chronz
09-24-2014, 01:09 PM
I have a low opinion of Marion after seeing him get locked up as the competition stiffened whereas with Manu, I've seen him raise his play as the stakes arose. I really dont think Marion's garbage man based game translates as well into the post season.

Whats the argument against Brand vs Marion?

kdspurman
09-24-2014, 01:14 PM
People saying Manu are forgetting how much of a time Pop had breaking his wild a ss habits the first few years. He went to the perfect situation for his game, structured but still enough leeway to freestyle every now and again.

Had Manu went to a lesser coach his career would've turned out much differently.

It could have went better for Manu too if you think about it. Similarly to how Harden was able to come into his own once he got out of the sixth man role.

Manu was very skilled even prior to playing under Pop.

YAALREADYKNO
09-24-2014, 01:23 PM
It's a shame that marion hasn't been on at least 1 defensive team first or second. I thought he could've made at least 2 or 3 defensive 2nd teams. Back in his prime dude would give you at least 2 steals and a block and guard anyone from the 1-4 positions.

Chronz
09-24-2014, 01:32 PM
People saying Manu are forgetting how much of a time Pop had breaking his wild a ss habits the first few years. He went to the perfect situation for his game, structured but still enough leeway to freestyle every now and again.

Had Manu went to a lesser coach his career would've turned out much differently.
Perfect situation aside, he was still a tremendous talent. A guy with his heart and desire would have made it anywhere. You could argue that San Antonio held him down in some ways, making him come off the bench and such, playing team ball as opposed to dominating the ball on some mediocre club. It really depends on what you value and how you feel he would have adapted.

Having seen Manu all these years, I have come to the conclusion that while I agree San Antonio helped prolong his career, its also suppressed his exposure. Manu was a big time player, if given his own team, I have no doubt he would have gotten all the same adulation (and hate) of a current James Harden. Instead of being seen as a great 6th man, he'd be a perennial All-Star/All-NBA guy. Maybe he doesn't have as long of a career, definitely fewer championships, but I think so few people value team play/championships/efficiency, that hes not getting the credit he deserves for his sacrifices.

I'll never forget the game I realized what a special player he could be.
Its his 2nd year going up against a HOF laden Lakers squad. Lakers were undefeated at the time and he was without TP/Duncan. Gives them everything they got, even embarrasses Kobe with his handles at some point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmBLBV0u_J0

Chronz
09-24-2014, 01:34 PM
It's a shame that marion hasn't been on at least 1 defensive team first or second. I thought he could've made at least 2 or 3 defensive 2nd teams

Dont think you can say its a shame when its hard to pin point a single snubbed season.

I actually remember a number of analysts defending why they had Marion off their imaginary lists, always credited as a great defender, just not all-league.

YAALREADYKNO
09-24-2014, 01:41 PM
Dont think you can say its a shame when its hard to pin point a single snubbed season.

I actually remember a number of analysts defending why they had Marion off their imaginary lists, always credited as a great defender, just not all-league.


07 comes to mind when he finished 4th in DPOY votings and got left off. I'm not saying hes scottie pippen but for him to not at make at least one defensive team, Its a shame lol

c.c.
09-24-2014, 02:20 PM
Easy.........Steve Francis!!!!!

I Rock Shaqs
09-24-2014, 02:30 PM
funny how the op said to use hindsight and people are still picking brand. half the guys career has been plagued by injuries.

for me it would be Gino pretty easily

2nd and 3rd and 4th picks id go with Marion, Rip, and Odom

When was Ginolbli ever a superstar? Brand easily.

Chronz
09-24-2014, 03:40 PM
When was Ginolbli ever a superstar? Brand easily.

Manu was a superstar, he just sacrificed popularity for winning.

ThuglifeJ
09-24-2014, 03:40 PM
funny how the op said to use hindsight and people are still picking brand. half the guys career has been plagued by injuries.

for me it would be Gino pretty easily

2nd and 3rd and 4th picks id go with Marion, Rip, and Odom

When was Ginolbli ever a superstar? Brand easily.

You guys all fail. Ginobilis role was never to be a star but he has always been capable if u understand winning basketball..dude has elite offensive skills

JasonJohnHorn
09-24-2014, 03:54 PM
He was a solid/versatile defender for sure but elite is a reach for me, he was a zero time All-Defensive member and its hard to find a snubbed season to dispute. What he was, was a guy who allowed you to go small without losing anything in terms of rebounding. That helped his teams spacing and allowed him to optimize his efficiency but it did mean a downsizing of the roster. He played unselfishly but so does Manu, only Manu did it with very little ego whereas Marion inevitably left the team out of spite, after years of feeling underappreciated and letting the world know as much. As for scoring, hes not what I think of when I use the term scorer.
I think he was a great garbage man, possibly the most productive player to have so few plays called for him, making him one of the best 3rd pieces imaginable for a contending team but as far as offensive threats go, Manu is clearly superior.



Its like asking me if I want the work horse or the guy who can give me Kobe Bryant level of production in 32MPG. Manu was that kind of talent, he got his offense in different ways of course, he had the best set shot that set up a killer head fake for his rim attacks. The vision to create off those plays, it literally all starts with that set shot. As a side note, James Harden went to a HS nearby and from what Ive heard he basically prioritized mastering a set shot/corner shot before expanding his game elsewhere. Feel like its the fundamental skill you have to have to set up the Chauncey Billups/Manu/Harden type of game where you dominate with 3's and FT's.

That said, I dont like that Marion is hybrid forward, I can play Manu at the 2 (some 3) or as a backup-1 and know hes a natural fit. Marion as a wing cramps my spacing and doesn't bring out the best in his abilities. As a 4 man, my team loses some size.



If Marion were a primary ball handler, the team would be demonstrably worse because it doesn't fit his skillset, not seeing the point of that one. In a direct comparison, Manu's turnover rate doesn't prevent him from being more efficient for his career than Marion, this despite carrying a far bigger burden offensively.


Really, Rip? Why?

Great points. I don't disagree with anything you said about Manu.

As for comparing ball handling skills, obviously Manu is better, but I remember watching Manu make so many mistakes handling the ball and going outside the Spurs sets, and I've seen him cost his team important games, though he has helped them immensely. But at the end of the day I'd rather have a guy who is comfortable deferring ball handling duties than a guy who is over anxious to handle the ball who isn't as capable as I'd like him to be. That sounds worse than I mean it to, because Manu is great for his position when it comes to passing, but I've seen him make boneheaded moves.

As for Marion's defense and defensive team selections, we all know the defensive team selections are awful (how many does Kobe have that he shouldn't?). Are there better SF's on the defensive end? Sure. I wouldn't say Marion was better than Artest in his prime, but I would say he was as good as Prince, and Prince made a few teams. The All-Defensive team is a popularity contest. A lot of quality defenders don't make the squad that deserve it.

And I think it is unfair to suggest that Marion has issues in terms of needing attention. Everybody knows that Phoenix as an organization has alienated players because they are stingy on their contracts. They let Joe Johnson go, they've given away first-round picks to get teams to take on contracts. Marion was under-appreciated in Phoenix. They were tightwads with money, and they made players feel like they weren't valued. Mariond proved in Dallas that he can play second or third or fourth fiddle and make a positive contribution on the floor. His defense was huge for Dallas the last few years and is a big part of why that team was as good as it has been, and while Chanlder got a lot of the credit for their defense when they won, Kidd and Marion really helped him out a lot.

As for Rip, part of it is my Piston's bias. But If I picked those guys (Miller, Marion and Rip), it would be about chemistry, not over all talent. Rip over Manu might not make a lot of sense to some, but I've seen Rip play a lot. I know how easy it is for him to move the ball and make a play. The Pistons (like Doc's Celtics, Thibs' Bulls and Pop's Spurs) moved the ball around a lot. So Rip might draw a defender coming off a pick, get a guy up in the air, and then kick it back to the point guard who is in a position to get the ball to the weak side the defenses left open, and I know how important those kinds of passes are to an offense. Rip is a solid shooter, spreads the floor, and is a willing passer, and I've seen some good defence out of him to. His assist totals are pretty impressive too. He has five seasons over 4 assists a game, which is only one less than Manu, and given that Rip's first few season were in Washington where Jordan wanted to 'show the kids' how it was done and Collins was in no position to challenge the boss on the matter, Rip didn't get a chance to show his passing skills.

If you look at the numbers alone, there isn't much of a case for Rip over Manu (Manu was a better 3pt shooter, a better rebounder and a better passer), but I've also never seen Manu manage to stay on the floor for 40 minutes a game, and there is something to be said about that. Sure, his per36 stats are great, but and it's not Manu's fault that Pop tries to limit his guy's minutes, but Manu only averaged over 30 minutes twice. Rip had ten-straights seasons over 30 minutes a game. I mean, Pop gave Parker more minutes in his rookie year than Manu, and Pop has been giving them Parker over 30 a game for eleven seasons. And Duncan got 14 years at 30+, several with 40 or nearly 40 minutes a game, so Pop does play guys starting minutes. It makes you wonder why Manu never got 36-38 minutes a game. Is there a problem with his conditioning? I know Rip can give me 40 a game.... I don't know that about Manu.

I think with a trio like Miller/Rip/Marion, it would be clear what is expected of each player, and they can all give lots of minutes, and none are selfish guys. I think they'd play very well together.

mrblisterdundee
09-24-2014, 04:03 PM
Manu. Anyone else is simply the wrong choice

Ginobili played 72 percent as many games as Marion, who was drafted on the exact same night and is only one year younger but has been available the better part of four seasons more than Ginobili. So no; it's not quite that clear cut.

HeatFan
09-30-2014, 08:19 PM
Wow. I remember that Jonathan Bender was advertised as a potential superstar, like so many others are, and really didn't do anything. Manu being the second to last pick is incredible. The Spurs recruiting is like no other. Spurs notable draft picks the last few years post 20th pick:
2009 - Dejuan Blair
2008 - Goran Dragic
2008 - George Hill - which was later trade for Kawhi Leonard
2007 - Tiago Splitter
2004 - Beno Udrih
2003 - Leandro Barbosa
2002 - Luis Scola
2002 - John Salmons
2001 - Tony Parker
1999 - Manu Ginobili

A few stars, a few starters in the League and a few very important role players. Not to mention how it all began with Tim Duncan at #1.