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View Full Version : Who would you take first three picks in the 89 Draft?



JasonJohnHorn
09-17-2014, 01:12 PM
I had a lot of fun listening you guys debate over the 86 draft, so I thought I'd do the same with 89.


Pervous Ellison went first, and then Danny Ferry... neither much to write home about.

But then we saw:

Sean Elliot, Glen Rice, then a little later Nick Anderson, Mookie Blaylock, Tim Hardaway, Dana Barros, Shawn Kemp, BJ Armstrong, Vlade Divac, and Cliff Robinson.


So first question: If you only had ONE pick, who do you take?

Assume you have the first THREE picks... which three guys to you grab?



I think I'd go with Vlade or Hardaway if I only had one pick.

With three picks I'd grab Tim Hardaway, Vlade and Kemp. But I'd love to have Blaylock on my roster.

mightybosstone
09-17-2014, 01:18 PM
Off the top of my head, Hardaway and Kemp would be the obvious top two picks with guys like Rice, Blaylock and Divac right behind. That's not a bad draft, though. There's probably not any top 50 guys in that draft, but there's a few top 100 contenders and a slew of All-Stars from the 90s.

mightybosstone
09-17-2014, 01:22 PM
I think I'd go with Vlade or Hardaway if I only had one pick.

With three picks I'd grab Tim Hardaway, Vlade and Kemp. But I'd love to have Blaylock on my roster.

Wait.... So you would take Vlade over Kemp? Why, if you don't mind me asking? Kemp was absolutely a superior player than Divac and his peak was probably the best of any player drafted that year. I like Vlade, but he'd probably be fifth on my list behind Rice and Blaylock as well.

mrblisterdundee
09-17-2014, 03:54 PM
1. Tim Hardaway
2. Shawn Kemp
3. Vlade Divac

JasonJohnHorn
09-17-2014, 04:18 PM
Wait.... So you would take Vlade over Kemp? Why, if you don't mind me asking? Kemp was absolutely a superior player than Divac and his peak was probably the best of any player drafted that year. I like Vlade, but he'd probably be fifth on my list behind Rice and Blaylock as well.

Well... in terms of scoring I wouldn't say either player was better than the other Vlade got less shots because he was always on teams with an alpha dog like Magic and Worthy, then later with C-Webb. But as a primary scorer, Kemp never impressed me that much. He was an All-Star, no doubt, but he didn't blow me away.

On the glass, Kemp clearly gets an edge, but it's not a huge one.

On defense, I wouldn't say I'd go boasting about either of them to anybody, but they were both respectable.

What put Vlade over Kemp for me is his passing skills in the post. To me, if you have a great point guard like Hardaway or Blaylock, they are going to be more effective if you got a big man that also knows how to share the ball, especially if you got a guy like Rice on the wing.

I like Kemp, don't get me wrong, but I hold big men with great passing games in high regard. They can have a huge impact on the offensive end, even if they aren't getting assists directly.

The other thing is that Kemp straight up stopped trying once he got his big contract in Cleveland and he seemed to losing his work ethic around that time, which is like at 27 or 28 years old. Divac kept up his game until he retired at 36 and Kemp was done by 33 and likely should have been out at 30. That is 5 or six extra years of quality productivity, or more likely 4 since Divac was injured that last season.

So the passing skills and longer career are what gives Divac the edge in my book.


But I wouldn't argue with anybody who took Kemp over Divac. Kempt was a beast for 5-6 years window.

IKnowHoops
09-17-2014, 04:41 PM
Hardaway
Kemp
Rice

abe_froman
09-17-2014, 04:46 PM
1.kemp
2.hardaway
3.divac

xbrackattackx
09-17-2014, 05:10 PM
If this was a current draft and I was drafting for my team needs. I would draft

Tim Hardaway
Kemp
Divac

Hardaway/Lin/Nash
Kobe/Swaggy P
Johnson/Henry
Kemp/Boozer/Randle
Divac/Hill/Davis/Sacre

Since I would have a rookie Kemp and Hardaway. I would dangle Randle,DavisJohnson,Hill and Lin. To upgrade SF.

Maybe Offer Randle,Lin,divac and Johnson and rockets pick for Iggy and Lee.

Tim Hardaway/Nash/
Kobe/Swaggy P
Iggy/Henry
Kemp/Lee
Hill/Davis/Sacre

Fun thread.

JPMMalone
09-17-2014, 06:50 PM
Kemp first easliy, the guy beat Hakeem in the playoffs twice, he was the leader in the playoffs
Hardaway
Blaylock, or Rice, tough chioce here.

JPMMalone
09-17-2014, 06:57 PM
I'm wondering why some of you put Hardway above Kemp. Is this just based off assist per game which seems to sway so many now days. Do people know that PF's don't have the ball as much to gets assist. Do people also know that Kemp led his team to the NBA Finals. Do people know that rebounds give there team more possessions.

JPMMalone
09-17-2014, 07:03 PM
Well... in terms of scoring I wouldn't say either player was better than the other Vlade got less shots because he was always on teams with an alpha dog like Magic and Worthy, then later with C-Webb. But as a primary scorer, Kemp never impressed me that much. He was an All-Star, no doubt, but he didn't blow me away.

On the glass, Kemp clearly gets an edge, but it's not a huge one.

On defense, I wouldn't say I'd go boasting about either of them to anybody, but they were both respectable.

What put Vlade over Kemp for me is his passing skills in the post. To me, if you have a great point guard like Hardaway or Blaylock, they are going to be more effective if you got a big man that also knows how to share the ball, especially if you got a guy like Rice on the wing.

I like Kemp, don't get me wrong, but I hold big men with great passing games in high regard. They can have a huge impact on the offensive end, even if they aren't getting assists directly.

The other thing is that Kemp straight up stopped trying once he got his big contract in Cleveland and he seemed to losing his work ethic around that time, which is like at 27 or 28 years old. Divac kept up his game until he retired at 36 and Kemp was done by 33 and likely should have been out at 30. That is 5 or six extra years of quality productivity, or more likely 4 since Divac was injured that last season.

So the passing skills and longer career are what gives Divac the edge in my book.


But I wouldn't argue with anybody who took Kemp over Divac. Kempt was a beast for 5-6 years window.


You do know that the Sonics played in a game plan by G. Karl that saw no one shoot more than 12 or so shots a game. Ricky Pierce got the most shots and he was off the bench. They spread it around.

I'm sure prime Kemp could've averaged 22, 12, 2 blocks 2 steals and if asked to could've been a 3 assist guy. I'm not talking about Cleveland Kemp. I'm talking about the Kemp that was making 800,000 a year.

Divac is no where close to Kemp... only thing he wins at in is years played.

You put Prime Kemp on that Charlotte team or Laker team or Kings team and they probably win an NBA title easily.
Webber and prime Kemp on the same team. That's rediculuos.

mightybosstone
09-17-2014, 07:50 PM
Well... in terms of scoring I wouldn't say either player was better than the other Vlade got less shots because he was always on teams with an alpha dog like Magic and Worthy, then later with C-Webb.
Kemp also played with Payton, so it's not as if he was playing with scrubs or no other elite offensive players in his career. Also, I don't buy that Vlade didn't have the same opportunities as Kemp. Kemp averaged only 1.4 FGA more per game in his career than Divac. In their primes, Divac was taking 10-12 shots per game and Kemp was averaging 11-13 attempts per game.


But as a primary scorer, Kemp never impressed me that much. He was an All-Star, no doubt, but he didn't blow me away.
He was certainly a hell of a lot better than Divac. The guy averaged basically 18+ PPG for seven consecutive seasons and he averaged a TS% over 58% in five of those seven seasons. Peak Kemp was a beast.


On the glass, Kemp clearly gets an edge, but it's not a huge one.
Kemp averaged a 17.8% TRB% in his career, which is good enough for 22nd all-time in the NBA. That's pretty great. Divac posted a career 15.4% TRB%. That's fairly average-mediocre for a big man. He was pretty good on the glass. Kemp was elite.


On defense, I wouldn't say I'd go boasting about either of them to anybody, but they were both respectable.
That seems fair. Kemp was athletic and a decent shot blocker and Divac was the king of drawing offensive fouls, but neither guy was considered anything more than average to maybe slightly above average.


What put Vlade over Kemp for me is his passing skills in the post. To me, if you have a great point guard like Hardaway or Blaylock, they are going to be more effective if you got a big man that also knows how to share the ball, especially if you got a guy like Rice on the wing.

I like Kemp, don't get me wrong, but I hold big men with great passing games in high regard. They can have a huge impact on the offensive end, even if they aren't getting assists directly.
This is a fair point, but you know what's more useful on offense? A freakish athlete who can get you a hyper-efficient 18 points per game. I also give a lot of credit to the great passing big men. It's an underrated skill, but I'd still rather have a big man who can dominate on offense and on the glass than one who can pass out of the post and get me three assists a game.


The other thing is that Kemp straight up stopped trying once he got his big contract in Cleveland and he seemed to losing his work ethic around that time, which is like at 27 or 28 years old. Divac kept up his game until he retired at 36 and Kemp was done by 33 and likely should have been out at 30. That is 5 or six extra years of quality productivity, or more likely 4 since Divac was injured that last season.
Divac's career and prime were admittedly longer, but not substantially longer. Divac played only 117 more games than Kemp. His prime lasted 12 years compared to probably 10 for Kemp. So Vlade does have an edge in longevity, but it's a pretty minor one.


So the passing skills and longer career are what gives Divac the edge in my book.

But I wouldn't argue with anybody who took Kemp over Divac. Kemp was a beast for 5-6 years window.
See, that's my point. At his peak, Kemp was a beast. We're talking about a ridiculously efficient 18/11/2/2/1 guy who gave you at least one "Holy ****!" moment every game for 5-7 years. He made three All-NBA teams in an extremely talented era of basketball. Divac may have been the more fundamentally sound player, but he had a remarkably dull career. He was consistent but never spectacular. Aside from a couple of years, he was basically no better than a mildly efficient 12/10/3/2/1 guy and he made only one All-Star team in 16 seasons.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2014, 08:00 PM
Kemp easily for me.

JasonJohnHorn
09-17-2014, 10:50 PM
Kemp also played with Payton, so it's not as if he was playing with scrubs or no other elite offensive players in his career. Also, I don't buy that Vlade didn't have the same opportunities as Kemp. Kemp averaged only 1.4 FGA more per game in his career than Divac. In their primes, Divac was taking 10-12 shots per game and Kemp was averaging 11-13 attempts per game.


He was certainly a hell of a lot better than Divac. The guy averaged basically 18+ PPG for seven consecutive seasons and he averaged a TS% over 58% in five of those seven seasons. Peak Kemp was a beast.


Kemp averaged a 17.8% TRB% in his career, which is good enough for 22nd all-time in the NBA. That's pretty great. Divac posted a career 15.4% TRB%. That's fairly average-mediocre for a big man. He was pretty good on the glass. Kemp was elite.


That seems fair. Kemp was athletic and a decent shot blocker and Divac was the king of drawing offensive fouls, but neither guy was considered anything more than average to maybe slightly above average.


This is a fair point, but you know what's more useful on offense? A freakish athlete who can get you a hyper-efficient 18 points per game. I also give a lot of credit to the great passing big men. It's an underrated skill, but I'd still rather have a big man who can dominate on offense and on the glass than one who can pass out of the post and get me three assists a game.


Divac's career and prime were admittedly longer, but not substantially longer. Divac played only 117 more games than Kemp. His prime lasted 12 years compared to probably 10 for Kemp. So Vlade does have an edge in longevity, but it's a pretty minor one.


See, that's my point. At his peak, Kemp was a beast. We're talking about a ridiculously efficient 18/11/2/2/1 guy who gave you at least one "Holy ****!" moment every game for 5-7 years. He made three All-NBA teams in an extremely talented era of basketball. Divac may have been the more fundamentally sound player, but he had a remarkably dull career. He was consistent but never spectacular. Aside from a couple of years, he was basically no better than a mildly efficient 12/10/3/2/1 guy and he made only one All-Star team in 16 seasons.

Excellent argument for Kemp. I agree with everything.

I just got a bad taste in my mouth with Kemp in his Cleveland days. He put on weight and didn't play as well. I loved the Payton/Kemp Sonics. They were a great team. A good C away from a dynasty if you ask me.

When Kemp was hungry, he was awesome, but once he got paid... I dunno... he just fell off.

He and Payton were fun to watch together though.


Like I said, I wouldn't argue with anybody who picked Kemp. There is a strong argument for him, but in terms of creating a good locker room and keeping my window open as long as possible, and moving the ball on offense I think Divac is the better option.

Kemp sure was fun to watch though.

JasonJohnHorn
09-17-2014, 10:57 PM
You do know that the Sonics played in a game plan by G. Karl that saw no one shoot more than 12 or so shots a game. Ricky Pierce got the most shots and he was off the bench. They spread it around.

I'm sure prime Kemp could've averaged 22, 12, 2 blocks 2 steals and if asked to could've been a 3 assist guy. I'm not talking about Cleveland Kemp. I'm talking about the Kemp that was making 800,000 a year.

Divac is no where close to Kemp... only thing he wins at in is years played.

You put Prime Kemp on that Charlotte team or Laker team or Kings team and they probably win an NBA title easily.
Webber and prime Kemp on the same team. That's rediculuos.

Great points. I'm not sure I would say Vlade was no where near Kemp, but I would say Kemp from 22-27, Kemp played at a level that Vlade never hit. But once he went to Cleveland, his FG% was significantly lower in and his rebounds went down as well.

I'd rather have Vlade from 21-35 than Kemp from 20-33. If you ask me whether I want Vlade from 22-32 or Kemp from 20-27, I'll take Kemp.

benny01
09-18-2014, 02:09 AM
kemp, hardaway, vlade

KobeOwnSU
09-18-2014, 02:21 AM
Lebron
Durant
Kobe

Championship. I don';t care what year. **** y'all *****es.

NoahH
09-18-2014, 12:18 PM
1. Hardaway
2. RIce
3. Kemp (because of off-court issues)

Jeffy25
09-18-2014, 12:41 PM
Hardaway with only one pick

Kemp, Rice, and Vlade would round out my top 4....and if I got three picks, I think Rice is probably the guy I drop.

Jeffy25
09-18-2014, 12:42 PM
Kemp also played with Payton, so it's not as if he was playing with scrubs or no other elite offensive players in his career. Also, I don't buy that Vlade didn't have the same opportunities as Kemp. Kemp averaged only 1.4 FGA more per game in his career than Divac. In their primes, Divac was taking 10-12 shots per game and Kemp was averaging 11-13 attempts per game.


He was certainly a hell of a lot better than Divac. The guy averaged basically 18+ PPG for seven consecutive seasons and he averaged a TS% over 58% in five of those seven seasons. Peak Kemp was a beast.


Kemp averaged a 17.8% TRB% in his career, which is good enough for 22nd all-time in the NBA. That's pretty great. Divac posted a career 15.4% TRB%. That's fairly average-mediocre for a big man. He was pretty good on the glass. Kemp was elite.


That seems fair. Kemp was athletic and a decent shot blocker and Divac was the king of drawing offensive fouls, but neither guy was considered anything more than average to maybe slightly above average.


This is a fair point, but you know what's more useful on offense? A freakish athlete who can get you a hyper-efficient 18 points per game. I also give a lot of credit to the great passing big men. It's an underrated skill, but I'd still rather have a big man who can dominate on offense and on the glass than one who can pass out of the post and get me three assists a game.


Divac's career and prime were admittedly longer, but not substantially longer. Divac played only 117 more games than Kemp. His prime lasted 12 years compared to probably 10 for Kemp. So Vlade does have an edge in longevity, but it's a pretty minor one.


See, that's my point. At his peak, Kemp was a beast. We're talking about a ridiculously efficient 18/11/2/2/1 guy who gave you at least one "Holy ****!" moment every game for 5-7 years. He made three All-NBA teams in an extremely talented era of basketball. Divac may have been the more fundamentally sound player, but he had a remarkably dull career. He was consistent but never spectacular. Aside from a couple of years, he was basically no better than a mildly efficient 12/10/3/2/1 guy and he made only one All-Star team in 16 seasons.

Great post

Jeffy25
09-18-2014, 12:46 PM
If I had to take a pick on who would have the most illigit kids....Kemp would be my pick

Jeffy25
09-18-2014, 12:53 PM
I'm wondering why some of you put Hardway above Kemp. Is this just based off assist per game which seems to sway so many now days. Do people know that PF's don't have the ball as much to gets assist. Do people also know that Kemp led his team to the NBA Finals. Do people know that rebounds give there team more possessions.

I wouldn't say Kemp 'led' his teams

He was the best player on the 92-93 squad (but Pierce was a really good player, along with Johnson and Payton being 17.0 PER guys), but Payton was the better player in the 95-96 season, and Detleff was a great player that year too.


Tim Hardaway didn't have off-court issues (other than some homophobe comments after his career). Kemp and Hardaway are basically identical in win shares and PER in their careers, and I like the reliability of Hardaway better.

Kemp had a better peak, and was better through 96-97. But Hardaway gives you consistency and a better later career without headaches (assuming we get to keep these players their entire careers).