PDA

View Full Version : A look back at the 2004 Olympic Debacle



Chronz
09-12-2014, 05:39 PM
Man time really flies, its been a decade already. I still remember staying up till like 4am to watch these games, getting little sleep and showing up late to what was suppose to be the first day of my promotion. Instead I lost the title and didn't even get my old job back. Good times, anyways, for those of you who dont remember, Athens was where **** got real for USA Basketball. This Bronze showing is what took the power away from the Stu's and Stern's of the NBA and into an actual basketball committee, one with trials and multi year commitments from its players. Where the prior regime had a rep of wanting to boost brand appeal, the new guys valued competition.


Technically speaking, the US had lost its grasp as the dominant power in the 02 World Championship games, but that was shrugged off as abit of a fluke in what most Americans considered to be the secondary tournament, tho chinks in the armor were evident even back in the 2000 Olympics when it took a few miracles and key games from Vince+KG to win. To Stu's credit, he did assemble what I considered to be the best International team ever fielded, the U.S. Tourney of Americas team. Those were the guys who were suppose to redeem the 02 Squad and continue the winning tradition in the Olympics.... Then everyone and their replacements started opting out, from weddings to rape trials, NBA players were too busy or too scared to enter hostile territory. That said, the replacements were an absolutely awful mismatch of talent and youth.


Marbury-Iverson was our starting backcourt, teams could shoot over the top easily and neither of them could really stretch out defenses. Marbury caught fire for a single game against Spain but seeing these 2 combine for 6-26 was closer to the norm (Side note: I somewhat pity Spain for matching up against us that game, them vs Argentina would have been a helluva Finals). They were flanked by only 1 true Center (Duncan since Emeka was too young) and a glut of swing men including teens like Melo/Bron for some reason.






The results;
In the 3 losses (Vs Puerto Rico, Lithuania and Argentina)
AI and Marbury shot 23/72

Not trying to blame everything on these 2, frankly I think we could have utilized both better, but them playing alongside each other as often as they did was something I didn't see the point of.

In the final game vs Argentina, USA shot 3/11 from down town (watching them, its as if everyone agreed to attack the rack more), Manu himself shot 4/6. Argentina won by 8 and the US had finally tasted Olympic defeat in the NBA era.

Starting 5:
Marbury-Iverson-Jefferson-Odom-Duncan
Primary Reserves:
Boozer, Marion, Wade

Amare/Bron/Melo/Emeka (Non factors)






Looking at the makeup of the roster, could they have won in different roles/lineups or would have scrapped the experiment entirely? What changes would you have made to our Roster selections?


Keep in mind the following players are unavailable

Fatigued: Shaquille O’Neal, Jermaine O’Neal and Ben Wallace
Marriage: Kevin Garnett, Vince Carter and Ray Allen
Sexual Assault Case: Kobe
Injured: Jason Kidd, Karl Malone and Elton Brand
Scared: Mike Bibby and T-Mac



So aside from them, who would you have sent in 2004?

Chronz
09-12-2014, 06:06 PM
Ill go first

PG:
1. Sam Cassell
2. Iverson
3. Billups

Swings:
1. Paul Pierce
2. James Posey
3. Michael Redd


Nominal 4-Man:
Odom/Marion/Battier

Bigs:
Duncan
PJ Brown
Brad Miller



Starting 5 2nd Unit Closing
Cassell Iverson Billups
Pierce Redd Redd
Posey Battier Pierce
Odom Marion Battier
Duncan Miller Duncan

NYKalltheway
09-12-2014, 06:40 PM
Yo have to give context about the tournament you guys hosted 2 years before that. You lost to the Serbs("Yugoslavia" back then but it was really Serbia & Montenegro) and the Spaniards and finished 5th! You also lost to Argentina there. It was rather important too.

And that 2002 was looking great on paper ;)

edit: Looking back, it seems that the ARgentina defeat int he 2nd group stage was the catalyst. You wouldn't have faced the Serbs in the quarters but the Brazilians and then face the Germans in the semis so it could have been a final game vs Serbia, just like this year. But Serbia was gonna win in 2002. Their squad is useless this year and it's a coaching miracle they're in the final :cool:

abe_froman
09-12-2014, 06:58 PM
i'm ousting brown,starbury and ai,promoting pop to hc and adding billups,and either davis or redd,and feature the young kids(bron,melo,wade)much more than they were

Chronz
09-12-2014, 07:57 PM
i'm ousting brown,starbury and ai,promoting pop to hc and adding billups,and either davis or redd,and feature the young kids(bron,melo,wade)much more than they were

You would have featured the teens more? I dont think they were ready for that kind of spotlight/pressure

abe_froman
09-12-2014, 08:29 PM
You would have featured the teens more? I dont think they were ready for that kind of spotlight/pressure

i dont see why not,we used kids before '92 as the entire team,and those guys werent as use to the spotlight as the the bron/melo/ect. generation were( melo carried a college team to a title,lebron was the most spotlighted amateur in history.they're use to the spotlight).i mean we were embarrassed by not playing them,so whats there to lose

kingsdelez24
09-13-2014, 12:18 PM
Yo have to give context about the tournament you guys hosted 2 years before that. You lost to the Serbs("Yugoslavia" back then but it was really Serbia & Montenegro) and the Spaniards and finished 5th! You also lost to Argentina there. It was rather important too.

And that 2002 was looking great on paper ;)

edit: Looking back, it seems that the ARgentina defeat int he 2nd group stage was the catalyst. You wouldn't have faced the Serbs in the quarters but the Brazilians and then face the Germans in the semis so it could have been a final game vs Serbia, just like this year. But Serbia was gonna win in 2002. Their squad is useless this year and it's a coaching miracle they're in the final :cool:

Looking back, that 02 Serbian team was pretty damn stacked with talent. Very comparable to teams Spain, Argentina, and Brazil today

NYKalltheway
09-13-2014, 02:48 PM
Looking back, that 02 Serbian team was pretty damn stacked with talent. Very comparable to teams Spain, Argentina, and Brazil today

Today? Lol. It was miles ahead. Spain is on the decline. Its peak was in 2006-10.

Dejan Bodiroga is one of the best players of all time and that tournament was during his prime and there were other very good players. Their coach in 2002, Pesic, is also a coaching mastermind.
Milos Vujanic before the injuries was expected to become the best PG ever in European basketball.
Dejan Tomasevic was one of the best centers of his generation (including NBA guys)
Then you had NBAers in Peja Stojakovic, Vlade Divac, Marko Jaric and a few others

The early late90s-2000s Serbian teams, 2002-12 Spain, 2004-10 Greece, 2002-6 Argentina, 2000-2005 Lithuania and late 90s-early 2000s Italy are the best teams outside any coming from the USA in the last 20 years. Croatia, France and a couple of others also had strong teams but some these are 'best ever' type of teams in terms of European basketball.

JasonJohnHorn
09-13-2014, 03:52 PM
The 2002 games were put on George Karl and the fact that none of the big names wanted to play because it wasn't the Olympics and Karl butted heads with the best player on the roster (Pierce) and wasn't playing him.

The 2004, from what I remember reading, was all about the guys being too young and Larry Brown not knowing what to do about it. Melo, LBJ, Amare and Wade. And Brown loved AI, so... he got WAY more minutes than he should of.

The thing I felt bad for was that it was Duncan's only Olympics, so he missed out on his gold.

As to the 'scared' part, I think you could throw Wallace into that as well, but I'm not sure he would have been a good fit for international play.

As for Pierce, I'm pretty sure he wasn't going to be playing after the 2002 debacle, so he is off the list.

Your list looks pretty good. I'd make very small changes:

Point Guards: Baron Davis, Sam Cassell
Shooting Guards: Dwyane Wade, Bruce Bowen, Michael Redd
Small Forwards: LeBron James, Tayshuan Prince
Power Forwards Tim Duncan, Shuan Marion, PJ Brown
Centers: Brad Miller, Al Jefferson

Starting Five:
Baron Davis
Bruce Bowen
LeBron James
Tim Duncan
Brad Miller

Those are the guys I'd want. Obviously there are better SGs than Bowen, but he's great for spreading the floor and defending. Davis was shooting well behind the arc, so the permiters defenders have to stick out, and with Duncan, Miller and James inside and all of them great passers, the ball movement should be fluid.


Cassell can spot Davis, and if there is any foul trouble Wade could move to point, which he was playing a lot fo back then.

Only two SF, but Marion and Redd could bot slide over if need be.

Only two C's, but Duncan can slide over.


I like Chronz's pick of Brown. Likely better chemistry than Big Al, but Big Al was a beast in the paint on offense and I think would create problems for some Euro teams.

Marion, Bowen and Prince are all great glue guys that play great defence, hit open shots, and won't complain if they don't get the ball.

Cassell and Davis will both shoot well and share the ball ad wouldn't argue with Duncan getting touches. Miller is a great passer with a good jump shot, which will keep the paint clear for Duncan or Al.

The best player on the team is Duncan, and given that he is so unselfish, I think it would set a great example for the other teammates.

And LBJ is the guy people would want to watch play, and Duncan could make sure that he gets enough open looks and only single coverage to increase his confidence and make things easy.

Redd and Wade are odd men out, but they are solid guys and would play well with just about anybody. Big Al can be brought in when the team's up or if an opposing team has strong perimeter D but nothing in the paint.


Biggest and most important change is the coach though. You put Phil, Pop, Adleman in there, and that team will do well.

I'm leaving AI, McGrady, Melo and Marbury off the list because they are guys who were always used to being first and never had great team success and I'm not sure they would have the humility to play with the other guys. If I was going to use one of those guys, though, it would be McGrady.

I didn't include Pierce because I know Pierce was dead set against it at the time, or perhaps it was the committee that was opposed to Pierce because the 2002 debacle with Pierce and Karl.

Kaner
09-13-2014, 04:35 PM
pg: Cassell, Billups, Davis
sg: Pierce, Redd
sf: Artest, Lebron
pf: Duncan, Marion
C: Brad Miller, Stoudemire

JordansBulls
09-13-2014, 07:35 PM
Replace Lebron on the squad with Tmac and they win.

FlashBolt
09-14-2014, 01:15 AM
Replace Lebron on the squad with Tmac and they win.

This is so stupid.. LeBron rarely even played.

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/e6/ef/e6ef71055495b031b5354748424d6e6f.png

And when he did play, he was insanely efficient. It's almost as if you guys really think it was his fault when he was 16/22 from the 2FG% when he had a chance to play. Of course without Bron and you put T-Mac, they would have a better chance. T-Mac was better than Bron at that point and he would have gotten big minutes; something James never got. You are just so bad at trolling..

The reason USA lost was because of Allen Iverson. Overrated piece of junk shot 39% from the field in international competition. Also like how people forget Tim Duncan was on this team too..

JasonJohnHorn
09-14-2014, 11:09 PM
This is so stupid.. LeBron rarely even played.

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/e6/ef/e6ef71055495b031b5354748424d6e6f.png

And when he did play, he was insanely efficient. It's almost as if you guys really think it was his fault when he was 16/22 from the 2FG% when he had a chance to play. Of course without Bron and you put T-Mac, they would have a better chance. T-Mac was better than Bron at that point and he would have gotten big minutes; something James never got. You are just so bad at trolling..

The reason USA lost was because of Allen Iverson. Overrated piece of junk shot 39% from the field in international competition. Also like how people forget Tim Duncan was on this team too..

The problem with that team was Iverson and Brown. Brown had a clear bias in favour of Iverson, and Iverson was the least efficient scorer on that roster.

MTar786
09-15-2014, 06:39 AM
since i cant say tmac il go with sheed, webber and pierce. take out marbury boozer and marion.. although i remember boozer playing well i think

kingsdelez24
09-15-2014, 11:19 AM
since i cant say tmac il go with sheed, webber and pierce. take out marbury boozer and marion.. although i remember boozer playing well i think

Webber was fresh off of micro fracture and became a shell pf himself

Chronz
09-15-2014, 11:28 AM
Yo have to give context about the tournament you guys hosted 2 years before that. You lost to the Serbs("Yugoslavia" back then but it was really Serbia & Montenegro) and the Spaniards and finished 5th! You also lost to Argentina there. It was rather important too.

And that 2002 was looking great on paper ;)

edit: Looking back, it seems that the ARgentina defeat int he 2nd group stage was the catalyst. You wouldn't have faced the Serbs in the quarters but the Brazilians and then face the Germans in the semis so it could have been a final game vs Serbia, just like this year. But Serbia was gonna win in 2002. Their squad is useless this year and it's a coaching miracle they're in the final :cool:

2002 deserves its own thread IMO but we can break it down here as well. Who would you have replaced on that squad. I disagree that it looked good on paper, depends on how detailed ur paper is I suppose.



BTW, I totally I agree with everyone saying Brown had to go. I think hes among the most overrated coaches in the NBA, dude preaches winning the right way but his version of that is too rigid. Im glad we've upgraded the entire staff since then.

Chronz
09-15-2014, 11:41 AM
i dont see why not,we used kids before '92 as the entire team,and those guys werent as use to the spotlight as the the bron/melo/ect. generation were( melo carried a college team to a title,lebron was the most spotlighted amateur in history.they're use to the spotlight).i mean we were embarrassed by not playing them,so whats there to lose

This was different man, it was a level of pressure they've never faced, a kind of vitriol they had never experience. LeBron called them the loudest arenas hes ever been in. Shawn Marion said he felt like it was them VS the World in how everyone was against them.


The only reason Im wondering if they are even worth a roster spot is due to them being better players 2 years later, and while we began dominating, we still lost the tourney. I just dont know if they were ready, still, they manned up and went over when lesser minds were too scared to try, so maybe I shouldn't be judging their mindsets.


I still think we could have sent over some better players but I would agree, simply playing the young guys more than the inefficient vets would have helped. Brown should have rotated starting lineups just to try some things during exhibition/pool play.

Chronz
09-16-2014, 02:10 PM
since i cant say tmac il go with sheed, webber and pierce. take out marbury boozer and marion.. although i remember boozer playing well i think

Webber was fresh off of micro fracture and became a shell pf himself
Yeah, cant go with Webber at this point, but Sheed is an interesting candidate.



The 2002 games were put on George Karl and the fact that none of the big names wanted to play because it wasn't the Olympics and Karl butted heads with the best player on the roster (Pierce) and wasn't playing him.
Sounds like we were plagued by horrible back to back decisions on the Head Coach.


The 2004, from what I remember reading, was all about the guys being too young and Larry Brown not knowing what to do about it. Melo, LBJ, Amare and Wade. And Brown loved AI, so... he got WAY more minutes than he should of.

The thing I felt bad for was that it was Duncan's only Olympics, so he missed out on his gold.

Agreed on both counts, the treatment Duncan received from the refs was awful as well.



As to the 'scared' part, I think you could throw Wallace into that as well, but I'm not sure he would have been a good fit for international play.

As for Pierce, I'm pretty sure he wasn't going to be playing after the 2002 debacle, so he is off the list.
Sucks to hear, was thinking about Sheed before going with PJ Brown. Losing Pierce is a huge blow to my squad and you're right, he prolly wouldn't return under normal circumstances. Ill have to redo my squad without a primary wing scorer/shooter combo like him.



Your list looks pretty good. I'd make very small changes:

Point Guards: Baron Davis, Sam Cassell
Shooting Guards: Dwyane Wade, Bruce Bowen, Michael Redd
Small Forwards: LeBron James, Tayshuan Prince
Power Forwards Tim Duncan, Shuan Marion, PJ Brown
Centers: Brad Miller, Al Jefferson

Starting Five:
Baron Davis
Bruce Bowen
LeBron James
Tim Duncan
Brad Miller

Those are the guys I'd want. Obviously there are better SGs than Bowen, but he's great for spreading the floor and defending. Davis was shooting well behind the arc, so the permiters defenders have to stick out, and with Duncan, Miller and James inside and all of them great passers, the ball movement should be fluid.
Not a fan of Battier in Bowens role? Werent both invited to compete at camp? I think Davis has the talent but his mindset was questionable from what I remember, supposedly feuding with Andre Miller, but perhaps Cassell would have better leadership abilities and would command more respect. Not a fan of how Baron has performed in these games nor do I like his skillset overall, too similar to Marbury/Iverson tho Baron prolly brings the best of what you do want from a 1. I think Billups brings the best to the table tho.



Cassell can spot Davis, and if there is any foul trouble Wade could move to point, which he was playing a lot fo back then.

Only two SF, but Marion and Redd could bot slide over if need be.
Agreed with Wade, I think hes a good enough playmaker, but Miami did everything it could to get him off that position and he definitely hurts spacing at the 1 so you could only play him in select lineups where you're not trying to feed Duncan. As for Shawn Marion, he could slide over but its not an ideal set up, you lose alot of what makes him special in this comp if you dont play him as the 4.

The way I see it, you can only play 2 non-shooters at max, your best chances to dominate the FIBA zones are with a 4-out/1-in offense. Brad Miller can space you out enough but the best lineups we have internationally have typically been with Bron/Melo operating as small ball 4's.

Really depends on how you stagger your lineups but I see unnecessary bigs.


I like Chronz's pick of Brown. Likely better chemistry than Big Al, but Big Al was a beast in the paint on offense and I think would create problems for some Euro teams.

Marion, Bowen and Prince are all great glue guys that play great defence, hit open shots, and won't complain if they don't get the ball.
Marion is an enigma from deep. I dont think hes a reliable shooter tho. And glue guys are important but I think Battier is the preeminent glue guy. Better shooter/team defender. The other 2 are better on the ball but in international comp, there really aren't many speedsters at the 2 to begin with, and these 2 are really limited in how they can space you out. Prince is very interesting tho. I just love Battier's 2-way efficiency/versatility.

As for Big Al, not a chance he makes the cut. Hes too interior oriented and was an even worse defender in his youth. Was Jefferson even in the league at the time? If he was, it was surely his first year and totally not the beast he would become. Bad choice there .



Cassell and Davis will both shoot well and share the ball ad wouldn't argue with Duncan getting touches. Miller is a great passer with a good jump shot, which will keep the paint clear for Duncan or Al.
Love Miller here. Cassell can only stretch you out from midrange (Im not sure if thats the area FIBA classifies as a 3 but I doubt it) with those 2 as your only options at PG, your not gonna get the shooting you need around Duncan. Bron/Duncan/Davis give your team 3 guys who cant operate as outlet options and all 3 of them need their touches, I dont like that mix much. Teams will sag off Bowen and dare him to make many 3's, he doesn't have the skillset to operate in that capacity. They will definitely sag off Bron. Baron might command the most respect from the perimeter and thats pretty sad IMO. You need a bonafide zone buster on ur team. Redd or perhaps even Rip would be better choices for the starting unit, at least if you intend on going traditional.



I'm leaving AI, McGrady, Melo and Marbury off the list because they are guys who were always used to being first and never had great team success and I'm not sure they would have the humility to play with the other guys. If I was going to use one of those guys, though, it would be McGrady.
I disagree entirely. I dont see what makes them any different than some of the guys you chose, only in some of these instances, we know that they have played better than some of ur decisions. Tmac was the best player from the 2003 selection, his skillset is exactly what you would want in these games, the ultimate offensive player. He would be a MUCH better option than LeBron/Davis/Bowen etc.... because there was quite literally nothing he couldn't do. He was team USA's best perimeter defender and its best offensive player.

Melo wasn't ready IMO, Marbury and AI should not have been starting together but they aren't any less viable than a guy like Baron Davis.



I didn't include Pierce because I know Pierce was dead set against it at the time, or perhaps it was the committee that was opposed to Pierce because the 2002 debacle with Pierce and Karl.
Yeah, I have to redo my team now.


But tell me, what would be your secondary unit and your closing unit. Im trying to sell myself on some of the choices you've made but it really does depend on ur rotation. Simply replacing Jefferson with Billups and Bowen with Rip, and I think you've got the best team possible. I think you would have to play Redd more than you think in 2004.

IKnowHoops
09-16-2014, 07:06 PM
Man time really flies, its been a decade already. I still remember staying up till like 4am to watch these games, getting little sleep and showing up late to what was suppose to be the first day of my promotion. Instead I lost the title and didn't even get my old job back. Good times, anyways, for those of you who dont remember, Athens was where **** got real for USA Basketball. This Bronze showing is what took the power away from the Stu's and Stern's of the NBA and into an actual basketball committee, one with trials and multi year commitments from its players. Where the prior regime had a rep of wanting to boost brand appeal, the new guys valued competition.


Technically speaking, the US had lost its grasp as the dominant power in the 02 World Championship games, but that was shrugged off as abit of a fluke in what most Americans considered to be the secondary tournament, tho chinks in the armor were evident even back in the 2000 Olympics when it took a few miracles and key games from Vince+KG to win. To Stu's credit, he did assemble what I considered to be the best International team ever fielded, the U.S. Tourney of Americas team. Those were the guys who were suppose to redeem the 02 Squad and continue the winning tradition in the Olympics.... Then everyone and their replacements started opting out, from weddings to rape trials, NBA players were too busy or too scared to enter hostile territory. That said, the replacements were an absolutely awful mismatch of talent and youth.


Marbury-Iverson was our starting backcourt, teams could shoot over the top easily and neither of them could really stretch out defenses. Marbury caught fire for a single game against Spain but seeing these 2 combine for 6-26 was closer to the norm (Side note: I somewhat pity Spain for matching up against us that game, them vs Argentina would have been a helluva Finals). They were flanked by only 1 true Center (Duncan since Emeka was too young) and a glut of swing men including teens like Melo/Bron for some reason.






The results;
In the 3 losses (Vs Puerto Rico, Lithuania and Argentina)
AI and Marbury shot 23/72

Not trying to blame everything on these 2, frankly I think we could have utilized both better, but them playing alongside each other as often as they did was something I didn't see the point of.

In the final game vs Argentina, USA shot 3/11 from down town (watching them, its as if everyone agreed to attack the rack more), Manu himself shot 4/6. Argentina won by 8 and the US had finally tasted Olympic defeat in the NBA era.

Starting 5:
Marbury-Iverson-Jefferson-Odom-Duncan
Primary Reserves:
Boozer, Marion, Wade

Amare/Bron/Melo/Emeka (Non factors)






Looking at the makeup of the roster, could they have won in different roles/lineups or would have scrapped the experiment entirely? What changes would you have made to our Roster selections?


Keep in mind the following players are unavailable

Fatigued: Shaquille O’Neal, Jermaine O’Neal and Ben Wallace
Marriage: Kevin Garnett, Vince Carter and Ray Allen
Sexual Assault Case: Kobe
Injured: Jason Kidd, Karl Malone and Elton Brand
Scared: Mike Bibby and T-Mac



So aside from them, who would you have sent in 2004?

Dang man, was that all because you were late from no sleep. You lost your job for that?

MTar786
09-17-2014, 01:59 AM
Webber was fresh off of micro fracture and became a shell pf himself

oh yeah :(

i would take sheed over pj brown
i would also take shareef abdur rahim over pj brown
what about jermaine oneal?

THE MTL
09-17-2014, 02:01 AM
Iverson and Duncan went when nobody else wanted to go! That's how I remember the 2004 Olympics.

JasonJohnHorn
09-18-2014, 04:01 PM
Yeah, cant go with Webber at this point, but Sheed is an interesting candidate.



Sounds like we were plagued by horrible back to back decisions on the Head Coach.


Agreed on both counts, the treatment Duncan received from the refs was awful as well.



Sucks to hear, was thinking about Sheed before going with PJ Brown. Losing Pierce is a huge blow to my squad and you're right, he prolly wouldn't return under normal circumstances. Ill have to redo my squad without a primary wing scorer/shooter combo like him.



Not a fan of Battier in Bowens role? Werent both invited to compete at camp? I think Davis has the talent but his mindset was questionable from what I remember, supposedly feuding with Andre Miller, but perhaps Cassell would have better leadership abilities and would command more respect. Not a fan of how Baron has performed in these games nor do I like his skillset overall, too similar to Marbury/Iverson tho Baron prolly brings the best of what you do want from a 1. I think Billups brings the best to the table tho.



Agreed with Wade, I think hes a good enough playmaker, but Miami did everything it could to get him off that position and he definitely hurts spacing at the 1 so you could only play him in select lineups where you're not trying to feed Duncan. As for Shawn Marion, he could slide over but its not an ideal set up, you lose alot of what makes him special in this comp if you dont play him as the 4.

The way I see it, you can only play 2 non-shooters at max, your best chances to dominate the FIBA zones are with a 4-out/1-in offense. Brad Miller can space you out enough but the best lineups we have internationally have typically been with Bron/Melo operating as small ball 4's.

Really depends on how you stagger your lineups but I see unnecessary bigs.


Marion is an enigma from deep. I dont think hes a reliable shooter tho. And glue guys are important but I think Battier is the preeminent glue guy. Better shooter/team defender. The other 2 are better on the ball but in international comp, there really aren't many speedsters at the 2 to begin with, and these 2 are really limited in how they can space you out. Prince is very interesting tho. I just love Battier's 2-way efficiency/versatility.

As for Big Al, not a chance he makes the cut. Hes too interior oriented and was an even worse defender in his youth. Was Jefferson even in the league at the time? If he was, it was surely his first year and totally not the beast he would become. Bad choice there .



Love Miller here. Cassell can only stretch you out from midrange (Im not sure if thats the area FIBA classifies as a 3 but I doubt it) with those 2 as your only options at PG, your not gonna get the shooting you need around Duncan. Bron/Duncan/Davis give your team 3 guys who cant operate as outlet options and all 3 of them need their touches, I dont like that mix much. Teams will sag off Bowen and dare him to make many 3's, he doesn't have the skillset to operate in that capacity. They will definitely sag off Bron. Baron might command the most respect from the perimeter and thats pretty sad IMO. You need a bonafide zone buster on ur team. Redd or perhaps even Rip would be better choices for the starting unit, at least if you intend on going traditional.



I disagree entirely. I dont see what makes them any different than some of the guys you chose, only in some of these instances, we know that they have played better than some of ur decisions. Tmac was the best player from the 2003 selection, his skillset is exactly what you would want in these games, the ultimate offensive player. He would be a MUCH better option than LeBron/Davis/Bowen etc.... because there was quite literally nothing he couldn't do. He was team USA's best perimeter defender and its best offensive player.

Melo wasn't ready IMO, Marbury and AI should not have been starting together but they aren't any less viable than a guy like Baron Davis.


Yeah, I have to redo my team now.


But tell me, what would be your secondary unit and your closing unit. Im trying to sell myself on some of the choices you've made but it really does depend on ur rotation. Simply replacing Jefferson with Billups and Bowen with Rip, and I think you've got the best team possible. I think you would have to play Redd more than you think in 2004.


Great post!

As for excessive bigs... I always want a little insurance. I like have two C's and a PF that can spot them in case of injury. Same for the point. Two points and a combo guard as well as a Sf that can distribute in case their is an injured point guard.

Looking back, I should probably pull LBJ out... it's hard because what he is NOW is so fresh in my mind and his rookie season was amazing for a guy straight out of highshcool, but bottom line, though he showed potential for all that he is now, you are right: T-Mac was doing all those same things at a higher level at that time.

I think I'd swap out T-Mac for LBJ. As you know, I'm not a big fan of T-Mac, but his talent can't be denied.

I'd still like my glue guys. And I'd be ok with dropping Big Al for either PJ Brown or Sheed.

Davis I'd be fine swapping out with Billups. My views on Davis is likely skewed. I never watched him much during the regular season, but every time I saw him in the playoffs, he was always playing well and hitting big shots. Looking at his stats, he took WAY too many 3's (really hurt his FG%). So Billups is a better option I think. I'm not sure I' lump Davis in with Marbury or Francis because he always seemed like a willing passer to me and it seemed like he always helped teams overachieve. And he was better on defense than the typical score-first point guard I've seen but yeah... Billups is a better option.

rocketfuel
09-21-2014, 07:44 PM
I think the players just were not properly prepared. The coaching staff didn't even scout their opponents. Now, they know every opponent, but back then they rested on their laurels. And the team was not properly balanced/constructed to utilize the players talents. Note the lack of outside shooters you need for the game. Iverson fine, but as a scorer, you'd need some shooters and maybe a true point. Too bad Duncan had to go on such a team. Even though they had a short time to prepare, our team this year were put through intense practices and there was serious thought put in place. Anyone can get upset if they aren't on their toes....look at Spain this year, they should have been playing the US.

Mengxing
09-22-2014, 12:48 AM
You lost to the Serbs("Yugoslavia" back then but it was really Serbia & Montenegro) and the Spaniards and finished 5th! You also lost to Argentina there. It was rather important too. :mad: (http://www.thenbajerseystore.com/)

Tony_Starks
09-23-2014, 11:54 AM
From what I recall Brown was the biggest factor in that whole debacle. Butted heads with players and made a almost unbearable environment.

As far as players Lebron had no business there, he wasn't ready. Too young mentally to demand the ball from alpha dogs like AI an Starbury. As others have stated Id love to have T Mac in that spot. Melo and Wade could've been featured way more but apparently Brown had no faith in them. Other than that, the roster itself is good.

With a Pop or Doc Rivers at the helm it would've been a entirely different result.

FlashBolt
09-24-2014, 01:28 AM
I get the "young" part but there is no doubt that young LeBron was still good enough to beat 90% of the players in the NBA. The problem was inefficient shot jackers taking over the game. Allen Iverson is overrated. To be at his prime and considered a top 5 NBA player but getting outplayed? He disappointed everyone. Put Kobe instead of AI and you'd be looking at gold.

Chronz
09-24-2014, 12:11 PM
From what I recall Brown was the biggest factor in that whole debacle. Butted heads with players and made a almost unbearable environment.

As far as players Lebron had no business there, he wasn't ready. Too young mentally to demand the ball from alpha dogs like AI an Starbury. As others have stated Id love to have T Mac in that spot. Melo and Wade could've been featured way more but apparently Brown had no faith in them. Other than that, the roster itself is good.

With a Pop or Doc Rivers at the helm it would've been a entirely different result.

Melo was the guy who clashed with Brown the most tho. If Bron wasn't ready, I dont think Melo was much better off. Wade was actually given some decent run but definitely not where he should have been. He gave AI/Marbury way too much love.


I get the "young" part but there is no doubt that young LeBron was still good enough to beat 90% of the players in the NBA. The problem was inefficient shot jackers taking over the game. Allen Iverson is overrated. To be at his prime and considered a top 5 NBA player but getting outplayed? He disappointed everyone. Put Kobe instead of AI and you'd be looking at gold.
Kobe would bring exactly what the team lacked, a multifaceted 2-way wing. He would have helped keep Manu in check thats for sure. He would established a clear pecking order in the offense and would have played off of Duncan better. I dont know if a single player is the difference maker but its hard to find anyone more qualified than Kobe.

Chronz
09-24-2014, 12:12 PM
Dang man, was that all because you were late from no sleep. You lost your job for that?
It was a dumb decision but I honestly felt I could go without sleep. Woke up disgustingly late.

KobeTop5
09-24-2014, 05:06 PM
Kobe would've never lost in international competition. That 2004 debacle showed the true colors of a lot of players.

Kobe is a man among boys and truly the greatest player since MJ.

FlashBolt
09-24-2014, 11:50 PM
Kobe would've never lost in international competition. That 2004 debacle showed the true colors of a lot of players.

Kobe is a man among boys and truly the greatest player since MJ.

Can't argue with that but that FIBA team was really weak. It's like this year's rookie class with Russell Westbrook/Anthony Davis against the international squad. Don't think USA wins that.