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View Full Version : Luol Deng: Cavs Had Major Locker Room Problems. Due To Kyrie and Waiters.



Clippersfan86
09-12-2014, 04:54 PM
This is the scouting report Danny Ferry was reading from in the scandal apparently. So many of us have cited locker room issues last year and Cavs fans have shot it down to being media hype making things up. Well now we have a recent ex player confirming.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2014/09/12/LuolDeng.pdf

Not sure why Alex Kennedy or the scout blacked out some of it... but it's near the beginning. Small letters, kind of hard to read. It's in the section where he talks about how the Cavs asked him to be the leader from day one, but he basically said he couldn't with the egos of these two feuding.

Clippersfan86
09-12-2014, 04:59 PM
Page two, where it says 2013-2014 N/A. Blacked out names but Kennedy and others reporting it's Kyrie and Dion.

Jamiecballer
09-12-2014, 05:00 PM
Shocker. Lebron has his work cut out for him there.

GiantsSwaGG
09-12-2014, 05:01 PM
Wow, I'm surprised

Clippersfan86
09-12-2014, 05:02 PM
Zoom in on the scouting report to 150-200 percent and you can read it clearly besides the blacked out parts.

InRoseWeTrust
09-12-2014, 05:06 PM
Man, would I LOVE to see this document unredacted.

Clippersfan86
09-12-2014, 05:11 PM
I asked Alex how he got the info that it was Kyrie and Dion.. he said you can see it under the black because they did a poor job of redacting. Do you guys think they blacked out the names to prevent media backlash against Kyrie+Dion? I mean is it a surprise to any non Cavs fan? All of us seem to be on the same page that Kyrie+Dion are mediocre teammates and leaders. That they seem to be me first kind of players.

hugepatsfan
09-12-2014, 05:22 PM
I expect Irving to mature and be fine. I think Waiters is just a knucklehead and will have a long career of this. Just my opinions of them so far.

prodigy
09-12-2014, 05:26 PM
Deng did not want to be traded to the cavs. He even told Cleveland this. But they felt once they got him he would change his mind. He was very angry Cleveland still traded for him which is why he was horrible on the court with the cavs, he didn't care or try very hard. Also clearly could not be a leader. He's more of a follower.

Irving and waiters def had issues with each other. Mike brown having no clue about offense was prob the worse coach to have. But never did any fights take place or punches thrown etc.. once David griffin took over as gm he had a very good meeting with Irving and waiters. The team went 17-16 from that point. Problem was over.

Lebron will be a great leader for these young guys. This team is gonna be a lot of fun!

Clippersfan86
09-12-2014, 05:30 PM
Deng did not want to be traded to the cavs. He even told Cleveland this. But they felt once they got him he would change his mind. He was very angry Cleveland still traded for him which is why he was horrible on the court with the cavs, he didn't care or try very hard. Also clearly could not be a leader. He's more of a follower.

Irving and waiters def had issues with each other. Mike brown having no clue about offense was prob the worse coach to have. But never did any fights take place or punches thrown etc.. once David griffin took over as gm he had a very good meeting with Irving and waiters. The team went 17-16 from that point. Problem was over.

Lebron will be a great leader for these young guys. This team is gonna be a lot of fun!

Yea I don't expect it to necessarily be an issue anymore with Lebron's leadership (he keeps a locker room light) and the fact that they will be contending. Still it's confirmation if there were any doubts before that there WERE issues last year. The dynamic to watch will now be Love vs Kyrie. Both have been "me" first kind of poor locker room leaders for their losing teams. Will be interesting to see if they both take a back seat to Lebron and fall into line. Then you throw in Waiters as the big ego X-Factor. Should be fun.

IKnowHoops
09-12-2014, 05:33 PM
This is the scouting report Danny Ferry was reading from in the scandal apparently. So many of us have cited locker room issues last year and Cavs fans have shot it down to being media hype making things up. Well now we have a recent ex player confirming.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2014/09/12/LuolDeng.pdf

Not sure why Alex Kennedy or the scout blacked out some of it... but it's near the beginning. Small letters, kind of hard to read. It's in the section where he talks about how the Cavs asked him to be the leader from day one, but he basically said he couldn't with the egos of these two feuding.

I think with Lebron and Love now there, with Blatt, everything will be fine. The Lockeroom has a great leader in Bron, and a great 2nd in command in Love.

smith&wesson
09-12-2014, 05:35 PM
I expect Irving to mature and be fine. I think Waiters is just a knucklehead and will have a long career of this. Just my opinions of them so far.

+1 I think they should just move him and have Miller & Allen mound the sg position. Maybe trade waiters for a servicable wing who could also see some minutes at the 2.

prodigy
09-12-2014, 05:39 PM
Deng did not want to be traded to the cavs. He even told Cleveland this. But they felt once they got him he would change his mind. He was very angry Cleveland still traded for him which is why he was horrible on the court with the cavs, he didn't care or try very hard. Also clearly could not be a leader. He's more of a follower.

Irving and waiters def had issues with each other. Mike brown having no clue about offense was prob the worse coach to have. But never did any fights take place or punches thrown etc.. once David griffin took over as gm he had a very good meeting with Irving and waiters. The team went 17-16 from that point. Problem was over.

Lebron will be a great leader for these young guys. This team is gonna be a lot of fun!

Yea I don't expect it to necessarily be an issue anymore with Lebron's leadership (he keeps a locker room light) and the fact that they will be contending. Still it's confirmation if there were any doubts before that there WERE issues last year. The dynamic to watch will now be Love vs Kyrie. Both have been "me" first kind of poor locker room leaders for their losing teams. Will be interesting to see if they both take a back seat to Lebron and fall into line. Then you throw in Waiters as the big ego X-Factor. Should be fun.

I think lebron wants to take a back seat. Don't get me wrong he will still be lebron. But he mentioned last season was the toughest season on his body he ever been threw and never wanted to do that again. I don't see love or kyrie having any issues. I don't see waiters being a problem either, but even if he is he'll be traded real fast. But lebron, waiters and love are real good friends.

IKnowHoops
09-12-2014, 05:45 PM
+1 I think they should just move him and have Miller & Allen mound the sg position. Maybe trade waiters for a servicable wing who could also see some minutes at the 2.

Waiters has a lot of talent IMO. I'd at least give him a chance to play with Bron.

prodigy
09-12-2014, 05:55 PM
This is the scouting report Danny Ferry was reading from in the scandal apparently. So many of us have cited locker room issues last year and Cavs fans have shot it down to being media hype making things up. Well now we have a recent ex player confirming.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2014/09/12/LuolDeng.pdf

Not sure why Alex Kennedy or the scout blacked out some of it... but it's near the beginning. Small letters, kind of hard to read. It's in the section where he talks about how the Cavs asked him to be the leader from day one, but he basically said he couldn't with the egos of these two feuding.

Btw please name these cavs fans who shot it down, ill wait. They def had some issues. The fights or suppose punches are all complete lies. That's media for you. But pretty sure everyone knew they had issues.

prodigy
09-12-2014, 05:58 PM
I expect Irving to mature and be fine. I think Waiters is just a knucklehead and will have a long career of this. Just my opinions of them so far.

+1 I think they should just move him and have Miller & Allen mound the sg position. Maybe trade waiters for a servicable wing who could also see some minutes at the 2.

Umm no, if waiters gets traded it needs to be for a center. But he'll have his shot with the cavs, to much talent to lose hope on just because him and Irving weren't best friends.

5ass
09-12-2014, 06:04 PM
Trade him for mozgov and foye and never look back.

kingsdelez24
09-12-2014, 10:49 PM
I don't understand LeBron's infatuation with Waiters, but I won't rush to any judgements until the season starts

Arch Stanton
09-12-2014, 11:46 PM
I just chalk a lot of it up to youth and immaturity. They were one of the youngest teams, with poor coaching and leadership. And pieces that didn't fit well together, which led to a lot of "me" guys instead of team guys. BTW Deng was one of those "me" guys. Ultimately, getting Deng had us win the right number of games to get the first pick, which we traded for Love. I'm glad that worked out and happy to see Deng off the team.

Arch Stanton
09-12-2014, 11:51 PM
I don't understand LeBron's infatuation with Waiters, but I won't rush to any judgements until the season starts

Because he's awesome. If you follow Waiters through this sort of bad pub, I could understand not liking him. But if you follow the Cavs and watch him play every game, you may see why others really like his game. Granted he needs to improve in a lot of areas, but he's got a lot of talent IMO.

Riodagoat
09-13-2014, 12:37 AM
I don't see why this is a surprise to anyone. It was apparent that there were maturity issues with their team last year. No leadership at all. Even Kyrie admitted this season that he needs to work on being a leader. Waiters, on the other hand, is a knucklehead and everybody knows that.

tr3ymill3r
09-13-2014, 12:58 AM
both guys think they are better than what they really are. Things could get dicey when they realize they are now the 3rd and 4th options, winning does cure a lot but a ***** is still a *****.

mrblisterdundee
09-13-2014, 02:03 AM
LeBron's back in town. They'll all fall in line.

DemarDerozan
09-13-2014, 03:07 AM
Told you...

Confusious
09-13-2014, 04:07 AM
LeBron's back in town. They'll all fall in line.
^

I'm sure they did have locker room problems. Lots of teams do at one point or another. Sometimes tempers flare. Especially when a team isn't very good. These young guys want to be competitive. Want to win. Somehow I find that better than the guys that are okay with losing. But that's just me...

YoungOne
09-13-2014, 04:54 AM
damn the only thing Clippersfan86 is trying to do in here is make other teams and players look bad lol.

Clippersfan86
09-13-2014, 02:09 PM
damn the only thing Clippersfan86 is trying to do in here is make other teams and players look bad lol.

What? I agreed with Cavs fans that the issue isn't likely to come up this year. I didn't bash anyone or the team. I just posted a story that was all over NBA news on Twitter. All I gave my opinion on was that some Cavs fans downplayed the scenario, but obviously something was happening. That was my only point. I am not trying to make anyone look bad, I just know people like "inside scoops" like this and league drama. Hell I post all of the Clippers drama too, so not like I'm running with an agenda for this.

WITZ
09-13-2014, 02:36 PM
damn the only thing Clippersfan86 is trying to do in here is make other teams and players look bad lol.

Be happy with this thread and be glad Ekpe Udoh didn't get his own thread for signing with the clippers :laugh2:

Clippersfan86
09-13-2014, 02:47 PM
Be happy with this thread and be glad Ekpe Udoh didn't get his own thread for signing with the clippers :laugh2:

Do you feel the same way about the 5 Cavs threads a day on this forum for much of the last 6 weeks or so? Or do you want to continue to be a hypocrite? I don't see threads related to signing decent role players being any more trivial than those.

WITZ
09-13-2014, 02:51 PM
Do you feel the same way about the 5 Cavs threads a day on this forum for much of the last 6 weeks or so? Or do you want to continue to be a hypocrite? I don't see threads related to signing decent role players being any more trivial than those.

Yea I feel the same way all those threads are overkill. I would bash the same thread if somebody had made a "cavs sign chris crawford" thread yesterday.

Clippersfan86
09-13-2014, 02:54 PM
There are a couple things people don't seem to understand on this forum which we should talk about.

1. This is the offseason, so there is very little meaningful basketball news to discuss. Given this circumstance, random, hypothetical, boring topics are far more common.

2. How can we possibly put a value on what is "thread worthy" when it's such a subjective idea. Some don't like the 5 Cavs/Lebron threads a day, some don't mind it.

3. The best thing of all is each and every one of us not only have a choice what threads we read, but more importantly which ones we take the time to respond to.

You will NEVER hear me ***** about topics being "not thread worthy" for the exact reasons I'm listing here.

Clippersfan86
09-13-2014, 02:58 PM
Yea I feel the same way all those threads are overkill. I would bash the same thread if somebody had made a "cavs sign chris crawford" thread yesterday.

Okay cool, you aren't being a hypocrite. Would you mind if we stay on topic though? I made a thread about signing CDR like 3 weeks ago and it seemed valid at the time given that 2-3 other teams had fans wanting him on the forum. People actually had a pretty good response to that thread and I think it went 3 pages (most were legit/interested responses). Since I didn't make a thread about Ekpe Udoh, why give that scenario as something to hold against me?

BTW why are we comparing proven, good NBA role players to "Chris Crawford" who I've literally never heard of once in my life. Do you find those to be similar?

WITZ
09-13-2014, 03:11 PM
Okay cool, you aren't being a hypocrite. Would you mind if we stay on topic though? I made a thread about signing CDR like 3 weeks ago and it seemed valid at the time given that 2-3 other teams had fans wanting him on the forum. People actually had a pretty good response to that thread and I think it went 3 pages (most were legit/interested responses). Since I didn't make a thread about Ekpe Udoh, why give that scenario as something to hold against me?

BTW why are we comparing proven, good NBA role players to "Chris Crawford" who I've literally never heard of once in my life. Do you find those to be similar?

:laugh2: Im not holding anything against i was just telling that guy to be happy with this thread instead of a "clippers sign player A" thread for once but like u said we have the option to choose what thread we go into so u got a point & on topic Waiters is an alpha and says whats on his mind and will call people on their **** so im not surprised hes a part of the issue. Personally i thought they were overblown by the media who loves to bash the cavs any chance they got.

Clippersfan86
09-13-2014, 03:21 PM
:laugh2: Im not holding anything against i was just telling that guy to be happy with this thread instead of a "clippers sign player A" thread for once but like u said we have the option to choose what thread we go into so u got a point & on topic Waiters is an alpha and says whats on his mind and will call people on their **** so im not surprised hes a part of the issue. Personally i thought they were overblown by the media who loves to bash the cavs any chance they got.

I don't remember anyone bashing the Cavs last year really? The only thing I really heard was Kyrie being overrated/a mediocre leader.. which wasn't exactly false. Trust me I saw Griffin get the same exact backlash over recent years, so I know how annoying it is. People don't see a 5 ppg jump and they go from putting a young player on a pedestal, to destroying him. Guys like Paul George and Anthony Davis who gradually improve vs dominating right out of the gate as rookies and not making the leap for a few years, don't get the same backlash.

Kyrie like Griffin was so good as a rookie that if he didn't jump to 25/5/5 with great D by year 2 or 3.. people were going to be disappointed because they want results immediately, which isn't reasonable. For Kyrie my concern is 100 percent with his attitude/ work ethic. We know skillset wise he's good enough to be a legit superstar and top 3 PG. With Blake the one thing I had to fall back on as a fan in hoping for a change was his work ethic. I knew that even if he never became a superstar, he would live in the gym. If Kyrie has a great work ethic, the maturation should come eventually in both his game and mental situation.

As for Waiters, I see him as the DeMarcus Cousins of the SG position. Thinks he's better than he is in reality and alpha or not... he has a much bigger chip on his shoulder than he needs to. He's got to find a way to use that fire for the good of the team, not to compromise chemistry.

JasonJohnHorn
09-13-2014, 03:23 PM
Shocker. Lebron has his work cut out for him there.

Well... both guys are tradable at this point. Sometimes when you have two beta fish fighting, all you need is a shark to enter the water and all of a sudden they STFU. LBJ is that shark.

Both these guys have got to realize that LBJ IS the man. Rather than two big fish in a small pond fighting over who the faux-alpha is, they are now in an ocean and have the great white shark to supplicate to.

Not to mention that Love has proved himself far more than either player. It's LBJ, then Love, and Kyrie and Waiter will just have to accept where ever LBJ puts them in the pecking order.


I get the impression that if one of the two hits 3's at a higher rate and plays better defence, THEY will be third in the pecking order, though Kyrie will obviously get to bring the ball up more than Waiters. If he isn't as willing a passer as CP3 or Rondo, I'll put my money on a Kyrie trade before the deadline.

WITZ
09-13-2014, 03:45 PM
I don't remember anyone bashing the Cavs last year really? The only thing I really heard was Kyrie being overrated/a mediocre leader.. which wasn't exactly false. Trust me I saw Griffin get the same exact backlash over recent years, so I know how annoying it is. People don't see a 5 ppg jump and they go from putting a young player on a pedestal, to destroying him. Guys like Paul George and Anthony Davis who gradually improve vs dominating right out of the gate as rookies and not making the leap for a few years, don't get the same backlash.

Kyrie like Griffin was so good as a rookie that if he didn't jump to 25/5/5 with great D by year 2 or 3.. people were going to be disappointed because they want results immediately, which isn't reasonable. For Kyrie my concern is 100 percent with his attitude/ work ethic. We know skillset wise he's good enough to be a legit superstar and top 3 PG. With Blake the one thing I had to fall back on as a fan in hoping for a change was his work ethic. I knew that even if he never became a superstar, he would live in the gym. If Kyrie has a great work ethic, the maturation should come eventually in both his game and mental situation.

As for Waiters, I see him as the DeMarcus Cousins of the SG position. Thinks he's better than he is in reality and alpha or not... he has a much bigger chip on his shoulder than he needs to. He's got to find a way to use that fire for the good of the team, not to compromise chemistry.

When i say bashed i meant more in the sense that the media speculation Kyrie doesn't want to be with cavs, lebron doesn't want to play with kyrie, Waiters punched Kyrie in the face, buddy ball accusations, 4 years sans lebron horrible drafting, horribly run franchise(can't blame em on that one) etc... Yeah Griffin went through the same **** I was a nay sayer thinking he wouldn;t be much but a high flying dunker but hes proven me wrong and is one of the top PF's in the game . As far as Dion goes a quote from a slam article i think it was went along the lines of at the end of the day if he has to come off the bench he will come off the bench if that's best for the team.

DemarDerozan
09-13-2014, 03:47 PM
Deng is a class act. He's respected amongst league coaches and players.

Irving and Waiters are selfish headcases.

Arch Stanton
09-13-2014, 04:29 PM
Deng is a class act. He's respected amongst league coaches and players.

Irving and Waiters are selfish headcases.

Yep Deng is an angel :laugh2:

DemarDerozan
09-13-2014, 05:09 PM
Yep Deng is an angel :laugh2:

Compared to these clowns.

Your fanbase is becoming delusional now. Name one instance that Dengs character was questioned.

Thibs was heartbroken when the Bulls traded Deng away. Because he is such a high character, disciplined and dedicated player.

DemarDerozan
09-13-2014, 05:11 PM
This Cavs team will shock people...

They have more potential to be last years Knicks than a championship contender.

sixer04fan
09-13-2014, 06:05 PM
Winning can resolve a lot of problems. Lebron will keep them in line. They'll be fine

Arch Stanton
09-13-2014, 09:43 PM
Compared to these clowns.

Your fanbase is becoming delusional now. Name one instance that Dengs character was questioned.

Thibs was heartbroken when the Bulls traded Deng away. Because he is such a high character, disciplined and dedicated player.

If Kyrie and Dion are clowns then Deng isn't too far from the circus. What has he done - complaining about not having enough bobblehead nights, or enough of his shirts in the team shop, or not putting in full effort and using the Cavs as a pit stop or airing team laundry but denying it to the media. Do I think he's a bad guy, hell no. But he's not the angel YOU think he is.

Arch Stanton
09-13-2014, 09:43 PM
This Cavs team will shock people...

They have more potential to be last years Knicks than a championship contender.

This is almost sig worthy!

Arch Stanton
09-13-2014, 09:45 PM
Winning can resolve a lot of problems. Lebron will keep them in line. They'll be fine

Exactly this. As I said youth, bad coaching and poor leadership led to this dysfunction.

FlashBolt
09-14-2014, 01:09 AM
Imagine you're playing on a trash team in which you lose day in and day out. The coach sucks. The GM sucks. And basically, you're forced to compete against teams like the Spurs.

Now, imagine you're playing with the best player in the NBA, thus far, a GM who has made huge moves, a rookie NBA coach who is arguably the most successful EURO coach, Kevin Love, and veterans stretching from Miller>Jones>Marion>James>Love and maybe Miller.

Two completely different environments. I know damn well any of you who ever played at the park stop trying when you know the game is over. But when you're winning and have a chance to compete for titles, that ambition is stronger than ever.

prodigy
09-14-2014, 09:50 AM
Deng is a class act. He's respected amongst league coaches and players.

Irving and Waiters are selfish headcases.

Lol at this. I thought The same thing man. But this past year changed my mind on him. Lost a lot of respect.

waveycrockett
09-14-2014, 12:26 PM
Not surprising. 2 young immature players growing up on a team with no leaders and no stability at head coach. This shouldn't surprise anyone and I dont really fault Kyrie or Waiters. This on the FO and Dan Gilbert for putting this team together. This is the same situation that happened in SAC when you put a bunch of young kids on a team with no vets to take control of the locker room and teach the young stars how to lead you get a bunch of rookies who turn into spoiled idiots.

Baltoro
09-14-2014, 01:21 PM
Serious question here for Cav's fans, would it be more prudent for the Cav's to trade Waiters at this juncture? Eliminate any contention with Irving and get some decent assets in return. Additionally, what kind of season are you expecting from Waiters when he'll be getting his touches behind Bron, Love and Irving?

Jamiecballer
09-14-2014, 01:29 PM
Serious question here for Cav's fans, would it be more prudent for the Cav's to trade Waiters at this juncture? Eliminate any contention with Irving and get some decent assets in return. Additionally, what kind of season are you expecting from Waiters when he'll be getting his touches behind Bron, Love and Irving?
If you trade Waiters now it's probably best for the team short term but you will likely be getting pennies on the dollar. That's a tough call.

I'm of the mindset that you don't keep players in order to try and "build value".

JLeBeau76
09-14-2014, 02:44 PM
Serious question here for Cav's fans, would it be more prudent for the Cav's to trade Waiters at this juncture? Eliminate any contention with Irving and get some decent assets in return. Additionally, what kind of season are you expecting from Waiters when he'll be getting his touches behind Bron, Love and Irving?

No, no, no to trading Waiters. Here's my reasons why.

1) he's young with a very good upside still. Can see him developing into a near all- star calibre player on both sides of the ball.

2) he's excellent insurance in case Irving gets injured. As seen last season, he can step in and fill in for Irving with little drop off.

3) roster flexibility. Having another player beside the big three that's a dynamic scorer can really allow you to space minutes out to keep people fresh all season.

No, you gotta at least see what Waiters can give to this new look Cavs before you trade him.

prodigy
09-14-2014, 05:40 PM
Ya us cavs fans are very hype. I mean we got lebron... him alone as we seen pretty much means east finals. Add love and the world cup MVP Irving and this teams looking real good.

95% of cavs fans I seen talking have been here even before cavs got lebron back. I've been talking to most them for years now.

No to trading waiters. People who follows him or cavs know why.

IndyRealist
09-14-2014, 09:42 PM
I could have sworn Irving and Waiters were pegged as the instigators during the season.

IKnowHoops
09-14-2014, 10:30 PM
No, no, no to trading Waiters. Here's my reasons why.

1) he's young with a very good upside still. Can see him developing into a near all- star calibre player on both sides of the ball.

2) he's excellent insurance in case Irving gets injured. As seen last season, he can step in and fill in for Irving with little drop off.

3) roster flexibility. Having another player beside the big three that's a dynamic scorer can really allow you to space minutes out to keep people fresh all season.

No, you gotta at least see what Waiters can give to this new look Cavs before you trade him.

Everything with this is completely spot on. I don't get why people are going so hard on the trade Waiters tip. His stock can only go up at this point anyway now so the smartest thing to do is to give him a chance to play with Lebron, while simultaneously raising his trade value so that if they do come to the conclusion that they want to trade him, it will be because he has raised his value to a level that allows them to trade him for a player that they just can't refuse.

JLeBeau76
09-14-2014, 10:36 PM
I could have sworn Irving and Waiters were pegged as the instigators during the season.

Eh...young locker room with not enough established respected vets to set a proper culture. Throw in losing and egos and it got really toxic.

Gotta factor in Chris Grant who never gave anyone the sense that they were safe from trades. Like what was said before, once Griffin got the GM gig the first thing he did was assure waiters and Irving that they aren't on the block and just go out and enjoy playing.

Team went 17-16 after that. Not awesome but a marked improvement.

don't see any of last seasons problems bleeding to this year.

Jamiecballer
09-14-2014, 10:42 PM
Everything with this is completely spot on. I don't get why people are going so hard on the trade Waiters tip. His stock can only go up at this point anyway now so the smartest thing to do is to give him a chance to play with Lebron, while simultaneously raising his trade value so that if they do come to the conclusion that they want to trade him, it will be because he has raised his value to a level that allows them to trade him for a player that they just can't refuse.
His stock could go up. Could. Don't act like there isn't a history of guys who fit this mold pissing away their opportunity because there is plenty. Its a gamble in either situation.

prodigy
09-14-2014, 11:07 PM
Everything with this is completely spot on. I don't get why people are going so hard on the trade Waiters tip. His stock can only go up at this point anyway now so the smartest thing to do is to give him a chance to play with Lebron, while simultaneously raising his trade value so that if they do come to the conclusion that they want to trade him, it will be because he has raised his value to a level that allows them to trade him for a player that they just can't refuse.
His stock could go up. Could. Don't act like there isn't a history of guys who fit this mold pissing away their opportunity because there is plenty. Its a gamble in either situation.

Waiters has an ego wow shocker. Ur kinda acting like waiters does drugs or fights at night clubs a lot. Buy all accounts he's a good kid but on a bad team with no vets and bad coaching he wanted the ball more. I just find it hard to believe he's gonna cause problems. It don't make sense. His agent will prob tell him just do everything ur told, work hard and learn. Then we can ask for a trade after a year or so. Causing drama would kill his stock.

DemarDerozan
09-14-2014, 11:24 PM
His stock could go up. Could. Don't act like there isn't a history of guys who fit this mold pissing away their opportunity because there is plenty. Its a gamble in either situation.

Exactly. I said this before. When I see Waiters I see Rodney Stuckey 2.0.

That's best case scenario.

Worst case is he totally loses it and pulls a Crittendon.

DemarDerozan
09-14-2014, 11:27 PM
Also Kyrie has a lot more Gilbert Arenas in him than CP3. Volume shooter, locker room issues, questionable character.

Lebron has his work cut out for him and he has the maturity of a Shaq-year old.

If this team succeeds it's going to be on the shoulders of Marion, KLove and TThompson. The only sensible players in this group.

JLeBeau76
09-14-2014, 11:39 PM
Also Kyrie has a lot more Gilbert Arenas in him than CP3. Volume shooter, locker room issues, questionable character.

Lebron has his work cut out for him and he has the maturity of a Shaq-year old.

If this team succeeds it's going to be on the shoulders of Marion, KLove and TThompson. The only sensible players of the bunch.

Locker room issues shouldn't transfer to this season. If you can make a case for a team and environment that has changed the most in one offseason in the history of the league, then I think the Cavs would win that argument easily.

Of course, if there are still the same issues this season then I will say you are right.

don't see any character issues? KI is heavy into charity and hasn't had any off the court issues that I've heard of.

Maturity. Sure. he's only 22 and was given the keys to a city. I will give him a pass on the past three years in that regard.

As for the type of player he is, as I've said before, KI is not a franchise player but he is a max guy. Given his FIBA experience as well as All-star games (the only times when he wasn't expected to be "the man" )I would say that we havNt seen his true game in a Cavs uniform yet.

Like everything though, we will see.

DemarDerozan
09-14-2014, 11:53 PM
Locker room issues shouldn't transfer to this season. If you can make a case for a team and environment that has changed the most in one offseason in the history of the league, then I think the Cavs would win that argument easily.

Of course, if there are still the same issues this season then I will say you are right.

don't see any character issues? KI is heavy into charity and hasn't had any off the court issues that I've heard of.

Maturity. Sure. he's only 22 and was given the keys to a city. I will give him a pass on the past three years in that regard.

As for the type of player he is, as I've said before, KI is not a franchise player but he is a max guy. Given his FIBA experience as well as All-star games (the only times when he wasn't expected to be "the man" )I would say that we havNt seen his true game in a Cavs uniform yet.

Like everything though, we will see.

Good luck to your team. You seem very reasonable.

Arch Stanton
09-14-2014, 11:54 PM
Exactly. I said this before. When I see Waiters I see Rodney Stuckey 2.0.

That's best case scenario.

Worst case is he totally loses it and pulls a Crittendon.

Yeah you clearly don't have any sort of actual knowledge with regards to Waiters. You could make a case with regards to Stuckey, but I say it's too early to tell. Your Crittendon comment is way of base and shows you are clearly trolling.

DemarDerozan
09-15-2014, 01:06 AM
Yeah you clearly don't have any sort of actual knowledge with regards to Waiters. You could make a case with regards to Stuckey, but I say it's too early to tell. Your Crittendon comment is way of base and shows you are clearly trolling.

My opinion is that players such as Waiters who have a reputation for poor locker room behavior and disciplinary issues yield poor and sometimes tragic results. Such as the unfortunate case of Javaris Crittendon. How is this considered trolling? You are really reaching here buddy. Many good basketball players such as Robert Swift, Crittendon and Chris Andersen started out as undisciplinary locker room problem children and ended up as criminals.

Name five players that were considered locker room cancers who ended up having all star caliber careers. I can think of only two... Rasheed Wallace and JR Smith. The latter is still a head case.

Why are you guys so combative? Can't you just state your piece about players and teams without making it personable?

Monta is beast
09-15-2014, 02:32 AM
LeBron 6'8 280

waiters
irving

yes mr james

Monta is beast
09-15-2014, 02:33 AM
trade waiters are u serious. thats d wade in a few years

prodigy
09-15-2014, 08:18 AM
Yeah you clearly don't have any sort of actual knowledge with regards to Waiters. You could make a case with regards to Stuckey, but I say it's too early to tell. Your Crittendon comment is way of base and shows you are clearly trolling.

My opinion is that players such as Waiters who have a reputation for poor locker room behavior and disciplinary issues yield poor and sometimes tragic results. Such as the unfortunate case of Javaris Crittendon. How is this considered trolling? You are really reaching here buddy. Many good basketball players such as Robert Swift, Crittendon and Chris Andersen started out as undisciplinary locker room problem children and ended up as criminals.

Name five players that were considered locker room cancers who ended up having all star caliber careers. I can think of only two... Rasheed Wallace and JR Smith. The latter is still a head case.

Why are you guys so combative? Can't you just state your piece about players and teams without making it personable?

Cousins just jumped on my mind. But once again your not understanding the team waiters and Irving were on. Bad coaching, bad teammates and no leaders. They both just wanted the ball more. Kobe is 100 times worse then anyone lol, granted he has great skills but he is a crappy person or at least was. I mean even Jordan was a dbag. Not comparing waiters to them skill wise but behavior wise its the same.

I feel like people think waiters and Irving are bad people lol. Young guys who wanted the ball because the team was a joke. Once they sat down with each other and talked cavs went 17-16. Its just funny people who prob watched a couple cavs games if that talking like they know these players and team lol.

Arch Stanton
09-15-2014, 08:28 AM
My opinion is that players such as Waiters who have a reputation for poor locker room behavior and disciplinary issues yield poor and sometimes tragic results. Such as the unfortunate case of Javaris Crittendon. How is this considered trolling? You are really reaching here buddy. Many good basketball players such as Robert Swift, Crittendon and Chris Andersen started out as undisciplinary locker room problem children and ended up as criminals.

Name five players that were considered locker room cancers who ended up having all star caliber careers. I can think of only two... Rasheed Wallace and JR Smith. The latter is still a head case.

Why are you guys so combative? Can't you just state your piece about players and teams without making it personable?

So Waiters is now a locker room cancer? And because he's a cancer this automatically means he's going to start bringing guns into the locker room, and shooting women? If you don't see this as trolling then you are clearly misinformed.
Oh yeah you were the poster who essentially said the Cavs would only be as good as the Knicks next year. :laugh2:

prodigy
09-15-2014, 09:28 AM
My opinion is that players such as Waiters who have a reputation for poor locker room behavior and disciplinary issues yield poor and sometimes tragic results. Such as the unfortunate case of Javaris Crittendon. How is this considered trolling? You are really reaching here buddy. Many good basketball players such as Robert Swift, Crittendon and Chris Andersen started out as undisciplinary locker room problem children and ended up as criminals.

Name five players that were considered locker room cancers who ended up having all star caliber careers. I can think of only two... Rasheed Wallace and JR Smith. The latter is still a head case.

Why are you guys so combative? Can't you just state your piece about players and teams without making it personable?

Oh yeah you were the poster who essentially said the Cavs would only be as good as the Knicks next year. :laugh2:

No he didn't.... omg, some peoples children

SoCal Bob
09-15-2014, 10:23 AM
My opinion is that players such as Waiters who have a reputation for poor locker room behavior and disciplinary issues yield poor and sometimes tragic results. Such as the unfortunate case of Javaris Crittendon. How is this considered trolling? You are really reaching here buddy. Many good basketball players such as Robert Swift, Crittendon and Chris Andersen started out as undisciplinary locker room problem children and ended up as criminals.

Name five players that were considered locker room cancers who ended up having all star caliber careers. I can think of only two... Rasheed Wallace and JR Smith. The latter is still a head case.

Why are you guys so combative? Can't you just state your piece about players and teams without making it personable?

Rajon Rondo, Kyrie Irving, Demarcus Cousins, Zach Randolph, Ron Artest.

It's funny because everything you said basically describes what Kyrie Irving is :laugh2: Why does Dion get most of the blame and not Irving? Kyrie was just as much if not a worst locker room cancer than Waiters. For a guy who was supposed to be the team leader and have a breakout year, he displayed the exact opposite. Kyrie was a selfish narcissistic punk, a bad teammate, horrible leader, terrible defender, plays buddy ball, tuned out both of his coaches which lead to them being fired and has played disinterested basketball most of the year. Dion's not the problem. He had every right to be mad at Kyrie.

GeronimoSon
09-15-2014, 10:38 AM
Hmm... I've read just about every posting in this thread.. the ones where the personal attacks and turf setting nonsense are only partially read and they're as useless as the poster..

The question raised.. and being discussed is the makeup of the roster inclusive of Dion Waiters.. then & now..

History has a place in the discussion, however, perhaps only from a reference base.. The previous three seasons for the Cavs had teams that were dysfunctional, destroyed and dull.. If it wasn't for an injury (kyrie, Varejao, others) it was the GM and or the hiring and rehiring of the same wrong coach.. These are givens and factors describing the team for the last three season:

-The Cavs were a team only in name.. essentially, they were 12 to 15 individuals running plays and losing basketball games because of their talent and in spite of their talent. The divisions within the club were exacerbated and fed to the media like raw meat to lions.. That team, for the most part.. was comprised of two years or less NBA experience.. Almost all of the experience was losing..

The current make up of the Cavs appears to have more than half the players from those teams.. gone. The head coach and his approach.. gone.. the front office.. turned over.. In their place are guys who have individually succeeded and who have succeeded in the most important ways.. Hardware being worn by a quarter of the team is a good thing.. It says that they know how to win.. how to act when they win..

Experience says that when something isn't working.. you cannot tweak it or lightly adjust it.. It needs to be built from a solid foundation.. This is what the Cavs ownership, Mr Gilbert has done.. He's reigned in his passion and has acquired the pieces needed to put together a club that has a chance to win...

Gone is the individuality of Waiters and Kyrie and others...

Gone is the infantile pissing contests initiated and promulgated by Chris Grant..

Gone is the juvenile leadership of Mike Brown...

In their place of four or five savvy veterans who are championship players/winners/veterans..

In his place is a solid X's and O's guy who should be a drastic improvement over his predecessor...

and most importantly.. is the winning attitude, reputation and skills of a new coach that gets it.. Gets IT without being on the forefront of the media. David BLATT, along with LeBron.. are the reasons the Cavs will be successful.. The little tet^a^tet between Dion and Kyrie, etc. is little compared to what David Blatt brings to this team.. and no one seems to understand what Blatt is all about..

Maccabi.. didn't just win.. they won without talent.. because the real talent was David Blatt.

Blatt has some very simple tenants to his approach..

1. Have fun.. If the Kyrie/Waiters crap was anything (and I doubt it really was). it's not going to continue if they're having fun.. that's a guarantee. Waiters, doesn't need to improve his value.. his value is understood by basketball people.. not media people who feed moron fans crapola on a cracker and call it pate'

2. Play and work hard.. this is pretty self explanatory.. but, it's why Maccabi Tel Aviv was so good at the end of halves and under pressure..

3. Play to win.. no.. really..

4. Play together.. David Blatt has stated that the ball has energy and that moving fast.. and moving the ball fast while playing together with everyone involved is a lethal combination for any opponent.. That's what the Cavs will be bringing to the table every night after the cloud of talc dissipates..

Waiters can be traded.. but only if what returns makes the Cavs a better team.. or by letting him go, that is addition by subtraction.. It's doubtful he get moved... At the end of the day.. he wants to be a hardware wearer like the newbs coming onto the team...

Jamiecballer
09-15-2014, 05:26 PM
Waiters has an ego wow shocker. Ur kinda acting like waiters does drugs or fights at night clubs a lot. Buy all accounts he's a good kid but on a bad team with no vets and bad coaching he wanted the ball more. I just find it hard to believe he's gonna cause problems. It don't make sense. His agent will prob tell him just do everything ur told, work hard and learn. Then we can ask for a trade after a year or so. Causing drama would kill his stock.
I'm not picking on him because of his ego.

I am curious about all these accounts you speak of because it is the opposite of the accounts that I've heard.

Jamiecballer
09-15-2014, 05:34 PM
Exactly. I said this before. When I see Waiters I see Rodney Stuckey 2.0.

That's best case scenario.

Worst case is he totally loses it and pulls a Crittendon.
I think his best case scenario is much higher than that. But I have concerns that it could go the way of someone like that kid from North Carolina a decade ago - tremendous scoring ability, questionable attitude and character that was out of the league in 5 years. Can't remember his name ATM.

prodigy
09-15-2014, 10:20 PM
Waiters has an ego wow shocker. Ur kinda acting like waiters does drugs or fights at night clubs a lot. Buy all accounts he's a good kid but on a bad team with no vets and bad coaching he wanted the ball more. I just find it hard to believe he's gonna cause problems. It don't make sense. His agent will prob tell him just do everything ur told, work hard and learn. Then we can ask for a trade after a year or so. Causing drama would kill his stock.
I'm not picking on him because of his ego.

I am curious about all these accounts you speak of because it is the opposite of the accounts that I've heard.

Well I don't think he has much of a police record also love and lebron both love him. That's before they even joined the cavs. No offense but most of what you heard are either lies or not as big as you think they are.

DemarDerozan
09-16-2014, 12:01 AM
I think his best case scenario is much higher than that. But I have concerns that it could go the way of someone like that kid from North Carolina a decade ago - tremendous scoring ability, questionable attitude and character that was out of the league in 5 years. Can't remember his name ATM.

Rashad Mccants. I can see that a little.

krazylegz
09-16-2014, 12:25 AM
for anybody who actually followed this team,this is old news